Fun fact: When Estinien sacrifices himself, he brings the wind. There are no Aether currents until after he does this. They're only around Ea and Base Omicron. Thought that was pretty cool.
The conversations before and after this fight made me realize what Zenos is, narratively. He's us if we never had limits to break. We started from nothing, an average adventurer who constantly exceeded every challenge put in front of them, growing stronger and stronger. Meanwhile, Zenos was born into royalty, and was already absurdly strong even before the resonance. His limits were so high that nothing could push them, no matter how much he wanted it to, and that turned him into the apathetic bloodlusted monster we met in Stormblood. Until the day we challenged him, and he finally encountered a challenge for the first time in his life. Of course he latched onto us the way he did. But after his revival, he just couldn't figure out how to capture that feeling again. He didn't understand why we wouldn't fight him just to fight him. He couldn't understand why we prioritized things he viewed as trifling, because he'd never had to. It was only after Alisaie spoke to him in Garlemald that he finally figured it out. He wouldn't be able to draw us out by enraging us, or by creating greater threats. Even when he was the greatest threat to Eorzea, he still couldn't get us to give him the fight he wanted. So instead of antagonizing us, he realized there would need to be no obligations left for us. That, and he wouldn't be able to force us into it. So, now that he had started to understand, he came to our aid, helped us finish our obligations, then challenged us, not as a villain, but as a rival, the friend he always thought he was to us. And he finally got his wish
I think you're a bit off. Zenos to me is a representation of loneliness and despair. He knows no enjoyment, no connections to anyone. He latches onto the 1 thing he has any feeling from. This is really similar to how a lot of people in depression deal with it regardless if it is healthy or not. You skip school to play video games because it gives joy and escape from your depression. It's not because he didn't understand because he never had to. He didn't understand because he never had any until he found enjoyment from you. Also it's why he goes out of his way to help you instead of hurt you to seek approval and acceptance after Alisae basically calls him a self centered asshole. The WoL represents hope obviously. It also shows at the end he isn't some apathetic monster he is clearly emotional as he dies feeling most likely bittersweet enjoying the fight but feeling empty still. Maybe regretting it. We never get his answer. I don't think you're wrong it's probably both.
*To Fellow Warriors of Light: Has your journey been good? Has it been worthwhile? - P.S. I didn't realize I skipped half the ghost on the first time till I played it through again on the 2nd try. Brains weren't working at this point, I been playing for 24 hours in a row. Worth every ounce of fatigue though (:*
Fun fact: There's a hidden dialogue with Urianger when you talk to all the scions to know their plans for the future in which he suggests that the reason the teleporter appeared and took you to safety after the Zenos fight was something that happened as the last wish of Zenos himself, because that place was made purely of dynamis. So he actually saved you twice, as you did not need to die with him there, he knew you still had much to live and he got his wish fullfilled.
Three times! It was the combined effort of Raha and Zenos that prevented the black rose from killing us - Raha pulled us out of the timeline, but Zenos killed Varis (and so prevented black rose from being used quite so catastrophically). Admittedly, it is a less direct rescue.
@@blugill2273 I feel like he was left on the edge of the universe, in the middle of nothing, as far as possible away from everything as a sort of "he's finally done and there's no way he's coming back" deal, but ya never know.
It actually makes a LOT of sense that Zenos would be able to come join you at the battle against the Endsinger. Remember what happened when we (in the Ragnarok) hit the edge of Meteion's "Ultimatum" (the edge of her sphere of influence)? Basically we would have died if not for Thancred's sacrifice to ensure that we could survive. We were able to advance through Ultima Thule (which is the name of an icy body out in the Kuiper Belt in our solar system) due to our companions sacrificing themselves. But at the end against the Endsinger, she had created her own dimension and we had evacuated our companions back to the ship. I don't know if they would have been able to break through (Thancred did a similar thing in the fight against Hades, so it's possible), but it likely would have cost them their lives. Zenos, on the hand, is someone at least our equal in strength. AND, as a psychopath who has the clearest goal for living amongst anyone we know, he would have also been able to force his way through to our side. Remember, he doesn't have any despair or doubts about his motivation for living. He just wants to fight us at the peak of both of our strength. After traveling back to Ala Mhigo, he realized that he could never draw out our full attention by merely being the villain or antagonist. He could only get his wish by helping us so that we no longer had anything else to distract us. Nobody else in the story had both the mental state AND the power to be able to come and assist us like Zenos did.
While you are right Ultima thule is the name (well, was) of an icy body in the Kuiper Belt, its also a term that means "The farthest place you can explore" through the ages there have been different "Ultima thules" and the current one is called that because it was the farthest place one of our satelites got, at least at the time. The edge of the universe is the most Ultima thule that can be.
Venat said the mothercrystal is the will of the star, the only person strong enough to wield that power at the time was Zenos. So I guess in this unlikely vessel, which I think is amazing btw, we have the will of the star coming to help us fight against the Endsinger in a symbolic way.
Except Zenos didn't help us do anything. He showed up so the Endsinger left, then we rode on his back to chase her down. She was perfectly content to fight us before he showed up. He was a solution to a problem he created.
@@WarlordPayne Except that area was her realm and if she had chosen to simply move back a little and bombard the small platform with attacks we would have been utterly unable to do anything. The only thing able to keep up in range to fight her was zenos even if i think the dragon thing was a bit stupid. And that is if you totally ignore the the whole emotion aspect the WoL would have been feeling at that point until zenos came and somewhat pulled things back to a position that seemed somewhat winnable considering the WoL and scions had just been trounced a few moments prior.
The last conversation with Metion she asks to HEAR your words, share your FEELings, and know your THOUGHTS. The accumulation of thousands of years of Vanat's search for answers to Metion's question.
Hydaelyn already told us the full phrase in the Hydaelyn Trial. The "Hear, Feel, Think" phrase we hear was cut off, presumably due to Hydaelyn's waning power. The full phrase is; "HEAR the song of Creation's end. FEEL the sorrow at Hope's Demise. THINK and find your way in the darkness."
@@FFadddict He didn't know. That's a mistake from the devs IMO. When I worked on software in IT I was thought to create for idiots. You never know what the end user will try to do, so you must guide them and make exceptions for unexpected things. It would be better if those voices trigger when you move past the shadow, even if you're not close to it. It's def sad though for him to miss so much in such a important moment.
@@kbsskb788 yeah, that's very true actually, I was also thinking the same thing the other day about how the voices should play no matter where you are.. I bet he is not the 1sr to do this nor will he be the last but it is very saddening nonetheless but yeah maybe i should have not been so harsh
@@kbsskb788 dont think that the devs knew, that someone would go all the way to Narnia just to avoid the shades. As hand-holding the msq is its not that idiotproof
I love how at the end "reaching" Meteon isn't entirely just chasing her to her lair. It's also "reaching" to a person entrapped in hopelessness and despair with hope and love. We silence the song of despair with the song of hope by replacing despair with hope. And in the end that's what lets us reach her, by finding that one part of her and giving her hope. It's gorram beautiful.
@@Carsu12 It makes perfect logical sense in the game's universe, as our universal laws of reality clearly don't apply. Applying real life logic to fictious fantasy works would be like trying to fit square peg into a round hole.
@@samuelconnel2166 no, I'm talking about in universe logic. Most jarring being time travel shenanigans, which work differently pretty much every time they happen
20:28 thancred isn’t stronger than you, he has practice able to stop his heart and breathing in shadowbringers. He also has a lot of negative pent up emotions all the time so I’m guessing that also helped him to stay conscious for longer.
Yep, i'd agree that Thancred's training just makes him stronger when everyone has to work with less. He's been dealing with being disabled since Post-HW after all.
Meteion uses dynamis to "drown out" the Scions' aether. Thancred's aether is distorted from when Y'shtola saved them back in ARR. It's also the reason he needed Ryne to enchant his ammo for him.
I have no idea why someone would skip something that was so obviously placed in the game for the player to encounter, especially during such a significant part of the story.
@@MattComerrunfaster that highlights a design fault of the planner for this piece... the new road was sparkly/shiny, so a similar thing should have been used to draw out a route that passed by the shades. Or, perhaps required you to interact with them to continue. Nothing really hints at what their purpose is unless the player tries to interact. Without such force on the player, you can always expect there'll be at least one who doesn't (though, I didn't expect Quazii would be an example, though).
@@temisu_namisu I wouldn't say it's a design fault. The beings that were never there through the entire game, suddenly appears, clearly in the path to the shiny path. Why would anyone just go "oh those are nothing I'll ignore them"
Totally THIS! There are key quotes all the way from 1.0 spoken by the shades! I don't know how anyone would be like nope they are not important even though they just popped into the world on the dang path!
Glad that I was not the only one who cried/tried to hold tears when song's lyric started after Graha sacrificed himself. This zone melted me emotionally with every step of MSQ
@@robincollins8215 I don't think anyone actually expected the Scions to die, especially after the dev post saying that they weren't shooting for a tragic ending (or something along those lines.) Endwalker's strengths lie in the culmination of 11 years of story, of world building, of character development. *Of the journey you've gone through thus far.* The fact it also forces players to spend time thinking about the nature of living in a universe where life is doomed to fail is also a big strength. It tackles a topic that many of us would rather not spend very much time ruminating on because it's fucking depressing in a way that's satisfying. You don't need to kill everyone to elicit genuine emotional reactions. I was in tears the moment I stepped on Ultima Thule, and Thancred's self-sacrifice had absolutely nothing to do with it.
@@robincollins8215 Thing is though, it wasn’t that simple. If you were paying attention, you would know that we couldn’t just summon them back lest we make the very air we breathe disappear. We first had to figure out, through the final walk that there are many others that cared for us and were praying for us to win. If it was a break out of jail button, we would’ve just summoned them back right after they all died, but the true reasoning of the story is that we could only summon them back because we were able to overcome the despair of Meteion through all the other people we knew.
@@robincollins8215 really? you're saying that there's problems with jail break buttons NOW? you realise y'shtola has died 2 or 3 times, don't you? thancred was caught in that first death, and honestly could've died after his fight with ran'jiit in ShB too, it certainly felt like it ought to have been a death, too. g'raha "died" when emet-selch shot him in the back, and he "died" after being crystallised in the tower during ShB. estinien's had his death prevented by you and alphinaud too, the scions have "died" or had near-death experiences constantly throughout FFXIV, why is your breaking point now in endwalker when for the first time, both hydaelyn and y'shtola clarified that they could all be brought back from dissipation, and the loporrits and moenbryda's parents confirmed the teleporters were a thing? are you dense?
@@MrTalithan Journey of disrespectful jebaits? Because they bait you to cry with that weak ass presentation and you all got it. I saw those baits a mile away. No way they are getting any tears from me like how they did with Seto and when Ardbert returns to their friends his axe clean of blood
@@Skyblade12 He's not talking to the Warrior of Light in that moment is why. He's talking to... The Adventurer... He is talking to YOU. And all of what he says is true.
@@Akeche And, as ME, I have zero desire to fight Zenos. Zenos never beat ME. His fights were pathetically easy. He beat the WoL, because the writers gave him a "you win" button. A victory for ME would be denying Zenos what he wants.
The way the primals are summoned is also a throwback to the 1.0 trailer (which SE mysteriously posted up on their channel like a week or two before EW launched), they really went all out to show some love to every bit of the game's story and history.
Not only that, but also a nod to FF4 where basically the same thing happened at the end of that game. There were so many FF4 references in Endwalker, and it's been very impressive how the FF14 team uses so much from the old games but makes it their own to fit their story.
Watching him walk past those shades at the end and not hear them made me cover my mouth in surprise for a moment. Been a great watch regardless though. Good job Endwalker.
Well if you find said incredible story let me know, because the one we got for Endwalker was some weak trope filled nihilistic trash. The final days were the cause of a depressed zoo keeper and his fucking pet bird 😑
@@craigyoung2261 You missed the entire point of the expac. Was it a bit nihilistic? Yes. But it's a about finding hope and meaning in life despite that. The themes were deep and philosophical and I'm sorry you didn't feel the same.
@@KLGChaos Uuuhh bud, where have you been your whole life? You just learned it through ff14? There are plenty other stories with similar theme, hence "trope". I mean don't get me wrong, it's true and all obviously, but after the mind-boggle of ShB story where the community is divided to 2 groups, using this theme with "my friends are my power" trope overdone by many many shonen anime is cringe, lackluster at best. And there are also moments where they disrespect the character
@@tjongdavid1921 Dude, it's a Japanese game that follows closely to themes in old FF games. If you don't like it, gtfo and go back to playing WoW. You have great story there. Oh wait.
at Elpis, it was WoL and Meteion show to Hermes that others also feels despair through the flower. then later at Ultima Thule, it was WoL, Emet-Selch and Hythlodeous shows to Meteion that others also feels hope, through the same flower. in the end it is all about Song of Hope vs Song of Oblivion
Unfortunately, no. In the end, it's all about the whiny brat who is given everything that everyone else has to work so hard for. Zenos just completely undermines the entire game.
@@VegettoTico2648 I am. I've gotten exposed to a few other takes that have helped lessen that somewhat, but I really don't think the character was handled particularly well (ESPECIALLY in Stormblood). Nor do I think that he should have gotten his victory by actually getting a fight at the end. I should have been allowed to walk away.
@@Skyblade12 i dont count stormblood Zenos because that was a different writter, even since we got to Shadowbringers his development has increased expontentially
this expac is such a philosophical ride, I love it. And with the Zenos bit, I answered "That, I can't deny" for me WoL is a hero drives by the determination and prioritized to protect those I love, however, the thrills of battle is also the thing that I seek. I noticed that your WoL frown both when she answered the question and at the beginning of the battle, mine WoL gave a sneer face which is also a nice touch from the developers. In the end, I wish there is an option to walk away and leave him behind unsatisfied.
theres no option to walk away because what zenos says is true from both an in game and meta perspective. By the end, he understood how to challenge you. As an antagonist and not a villain. From a developer perspective, they would have to integrate him in future stories for the people who walked away somehow. If you noticed, of the 3 options you choose, You either answer honestly which is yes or dodge the question and say it ends here. There is no "your wrong". Zenos spoke to you as you and not as a hero in that moment. He makes the notion that taking aside the heroics, your a thrill seeker and at your core you adventure or seek that high for no reason than your own self interest. At the baseline, this is true removing the upper layers of morals. That is the common ground found between WoL and him and is true to the player. Meta wise, its true because we always want more. More story, more content, more challenge. For a raider, its no question. In story, your Azem, the traveller and seeking new adventures, challenge or thrills is what you are.
@@lostvayne9146 Actually, no. Meta-wise, I wanted far less. I didn't want "a challenge" from a worthless nonentity incapable of growth who has only dragged the story down every time he has shown up. I don't want a pathetic nothing who literally undercuts every message of the story to be the ultimate champion of it. And I didn't want to reward that worthless scum with a fight.
I loved the detail of Thancred being able to last longer not being able to breathe thanks to his espionage skills and bringing back to that fight with Ranjit and not breathing.
And I love that out of all of the Scions, it was Urianger who called out to Thancred and gasped when Meteion said he was unmade. The one who wanted to join Thancred in his wanderings.
@@pluna3382 umm, I'm a little bit lost here. I thought the result of us being sundered is that we can be affected by Dynamis but also manipulate it. The Ancients who are unsundered can't be affected by Dynamis at all bcus of their high concentration of Aether. So I thought, at the end, it was a battle of determination, whether Scions' determination is strong enough to hold against Meteion's accumulation of despair or not
@@fahriza88 Yes, Venat decision to sunder Etherys is to minimized Aethers so its possible for post-sundering living being to resist and manipulate Dynamis (in mechanics, its Limit Break). Why so? Such decision taken following awareness that when high-concentration Dynamis met high-concentration Aether, Aether will effectively overwhelmed by Dynamis with notes pure Dynamis being is susceptible to emotion; as explained by Hermes through various occassions. That is why Meteia didn't have issue to wrecked Etherys pre-sundering. When its pure aether vs pure dynamis, she's absolute. Its battle of will, yes, but to facilitate it Venat have to going through a lot just because most Ancients are so fixed on their utopia is impeccable.
I've not seen anyone bring this up, I'm glad other people are getting that detail, too! I REALLY loved it that they'd already established he can fight while holding his breath.
Look at how far potato-chan and Quazii journey has been, from trying the free trial to finishing endwalker. Like i once whispered you in game, watching all of you guys new player coming to the game (you, asmon, rich, and many more) It has revitalize my love of this game. Keep being awesome :)
Doesn't matter how many times I watch these scenes and listen to this music, I always cry, and I doubt I ever will stop. It has been such a long journey and I have loved all 8 years, I would never give it up for anything. Thank you Square, CBU3, and YoshiP, you have made memories for me for the rest of my life!
Man, I just finished it this morning. There are so many emotional moments at the end. I feel sorry for Emet-Selch and Shadowbringers got a whole different meaning for me. The part where you walk to the last dungeons and you hear all your friends who you lost along the way and friends who are still there with you. Everything clicked into place, never have I played a game so magnificent as this one. Very interested to see where we go from here. Now I’ll take a little break and come back to level the Sage job. This game is a masterpiece! And if ever I get into an argument about video games are a form of art, Final Fantasy 14 will be right there to be an example for it.
I know a few people didnt like zenos appearing and saying they felt it was forced but for me it kinda made sense. I really didnt care about him during stormblood and shb but I got to appreciate his character this expansion and I'm hoping he will be back in some form or another because I'm now intrigued what zenos' character really is under all that "i want fight right now u and me" I know thats what he really is based from what he was these past 2 expansions but maybe what alisae said something to him spark something else aside from being fightsexual. Either way this expansion really out of this world for me. 15/10 cant wait for new game plus
God i hope they surprise us and just put it in in the next week or two, I can’t wait any longer. Watching reactions is great but its not the same as playing yourself
Zenos' character is that he's basically the antiparticle to the WoL. He is everything our PCs are: stupidly powerful, possessed of the ability to basically override reality through sheer force of will, and determined to a fault. But at the same time the opposite: the WoL fights for people, for causes, not just because they like fighting. Zenos has nothing that defines the WoL AS a WoL; no friends, no causes, no morality. And like an antiparticle, when he comes into contact with the WoL there's a massive release of energy. The writers even lampshade it at the end when Zenos calls you his "mirror".
Zenos showing up at the end completed his character arc. He demonstrated that he could actually think about what another person wants/needs (though it's still to get what he himself wants). Zenos is, up to that point, the kind of guy that just kills everyone who gets in his way. But Alisae's words struck a nerve, and he somehow realized that if he really wanted to fight the Warrior of Light, it wasn't a matter of becoming the biggest threat to the planet, but figuring out how to pique the WoL's interest in the fight. To that end, he realized that the WoL had a more pressing issue that prevented the fight he so desperately desired. So why not help end that fight to become the main antagonist in the WoL's view again? Zenos' life, despite being a monster, was tragic in the sense that there was no one else he could connect to, and part of that was apparently he could never figure out how to put himself in another person's shoes. By the story's end, Zenos shows growth by managing to understand, if only a little, why another person fights.
It makes sense imo, what's exactly stopping Meteion from just leaving us in Ultima Thule? Answer, nothing and so she did. The only reason we even reached her to actually beat her was because Zeno's can fly. If not for him, she would have just moved her nest further away.
"Forge ahead" has so many meanings. Not only have we lost everyone and must push on, but their sacrifices literally created the road ahead. Also, Alisae's VA absolutely nailed it. This expansion and last. I was worried they wouldn't be able to top ShB, but they did.
and it was so fitting that the quests in ultima thule, showing hope to despairing alien peoples, ultimately is what earned us the right to call our friends back. Because thats the hope that ended up permeating the place, its thanks to them we were able to create the elpis garden we brought them the message of “forge ahead” and they repaid us in kind
1:47:00 Nobody would believe me but I've been waiting for Zenos to help for a long time. That's usually what happens to "frienemies" in anime who just want to fight the main character.
I was sure he would end up helping us after Fandaniel betrayed him. Afterwards each time he showed up I was thinking to myself "Zenos, let me deal with this first and then I'll fight you". So it felt so good when he showed up at the end to help before we fought.
@@roetheboat1 It felt good when a worthless nonentity of a character undermines your entire journey by just being given everything that you have to struggle for?
That little look that Venat gives the Warrior of Light in the credits sequence just when your name appears still makes me tear up, even 9 months on. What an incredible story
i really liked what they did with the last zone, it starts out with "pretty static" or "pretty distortion",then as the zone goes on and *what happens,happens*, the background music of the zone gets built up,bit by bit, first you get the piano to go with the distortion,then the distortion mellows and starts to sound like actual music,and finally,you get a singing voice to the background track, making the entire journey really memorable and more than just a "background track"
I think around level 84 I felt the overwhelming joy of realizing that not in a million years would anyone predict where this story was going to go. Elpis caught me off guard and left me smiling the whole day once I had to go to work. Ultima Thule meanwhile was so far beyond the pale that I wouldn't really believe it unless I saw it beforehand
You have to love how Yoshi-P and the FF14 team didn’t spoiled Endwalker and the endings compared to other games that makes players “beta/test” their content where everyone actually knows what happens before the official release! Well done FF14
Man, the actual despair they made me feel through Ultima Thule is crazy. It just feels like such a hopeless struggle through it. I didn't realize what a downer everything was until Zenos showed up and was like, "Why haven't you killed that thing yet?" 😄Loved watching your reactions through it all!
Yeah. Builds up a huge journey that you work so hard to get through, and then ruins it all by having a worthless character just show up with needing no effort or struggle at all. Way to undermine the entire game.
my reaction was a smile and a heated "listen here you little shit" I mean as heartened as I was by his confidence in me I was wishing I could just tell him to fight her himself and get back to me.
I made the revelation that the reason the Omnicron were waiting there is cause the 'extended operation unit' was unable to give the orders. The reason for that is cause we destroyed it.....Omega. It blew my mind during this segment. It's small details of this that really enhanced the story. The music changing to be more prenounce after each sacrifice made the emotions that much more. The last area of Ultima Thule was so desolate so grim but every time after each Scion paved a new path the area became more hopeful.
Even tho I was 90% sure we'll get everyone back in Ultima Thule from the moment Estinien disappeared I was a sobbing mess all the way through, vision blurred, I pushed through, I couldn't describe the feeling if I tried. Then the very last scenes at the top, when the Scions returned I burst out crying in tears of joy and I daresay it was the first time in my life I did so. I overcame many real life trials of my own but never did I feel so happy in my life before. I was physically shaking in Ultima Thule, watching this playthrough it was my 5th time seeing it all again and all of it still makes me cry. It's super powerful. This is 100% an experience I will carry with myself for the rest of my life. I kept saying to myself "how is this fair" and I meant it as, how is it fair to any other game, let alone an MMO that this exists, how can you try to compare... All of it is just incredible and I don't think I could have asked for more (tho if I would, a pre-rendered cinematic scene somewhere at the end would be cool).
"not a single death." - Quazii 2 minutes after leaving Zenos body behind at the end of the universe. Also welcome to the people who wish they could relive the msq and instead watch reactions of others experiencing it for the first time!
Not a single death that matters. I could have cared less about Zenos. If they had taken out his sequence entirely, the ending would have been better. As it was, it was pretty immersion breaking and forced. And no, his character still wasn't good. I cared less about him at the end of EW than I did at the end of SB.
@@rogthepirate4593 He said he needed to "burn the candle of his life" for his big cool fight with us, the reason ascians just get to cheat death is they just leave the body behind instead of dying. If they burn all their aether like Emet (who threw his "dark" against the lightwardens light stored in you) and Zenos do when we fought them they can't just jump into a new body.
I honestly chose #1, but didn't feel it was directed at me personally. I felt that any "adventurer" in a world like that has to like testing themselves a little? And we just got through a fight with Hydaelyn that was testing us? I am not a fan of Zenos, but I don't hate him either (I'm ambivalent) so I didn't feel I could pick the options that implied we wanted to kill him. Wanting to kill people isn't in-line with our character either and we constantly try to get the baddies on our side! If there were an option like "Let's go talk about this at the ruins of your throne" I'd have chosen it.
@@melissas4874 As an adventurer, I seek a challenge, which is why I could not answer 1, because Zenos is not, has never been, and cannot be a challenge. A character who cannot struggle cannot grow, and a character who cannot grow can never be a challenge. He's been a worthless nonentity that has been a detriment to the story almost every time he's appeared. The game would be far better without him.
I loved the idea of Zenos before, being our mirror, literally what we look like to the Garleans and others against us for most of the game, and what we'd be if we didn't have the Scions to fight for, and it kind of pokes fun at other games where no one cares about the story and just fights to be stronger and kill for no reason lol. It's such a perfect victory lap to cap off the story, I was blown away by this ending. And I didn't know I needed my Lala SCH boy to falcon punch Zenos off his feet until I got it lol.
EW Zenos has some pretty meta commentary. Calling out Jullus "Would it have been fine if I had a good reason?" is basically just shoving it in the players face. And thats how it is in most MMOs. You go around butchering everything. And its fine, right? You're the hero, right?! He does it again before the final duel, calling you out on being an 'adventurer' before being a 'hero.' And then he does it again after the final duel. "Was it worth it?"
@@Krescentwolf It's a good point, he just reinforces the point they made in Garlemald where the survivors view us as a monster that appeared and massacred all their friends and family in Castrum and Praetorium without a second thought, we literally were like Zenos at the end of ShB, surrounded by faceless bodies. We're literally the same as him, Fandaniel and the Ascians. Just because we have a reason to do it, does it actually change what we did? Make it better? And if we're honest, since it is a game, we are really just doing it for entertainment. It's so good, I swear Zenos and Fandaniel got hate they didn't deserve because their symbolism was super meta.
@@mismismism No, we're not. Zenos is not like anyone else in the entire story. He in fact undercuts literally every theme of Endwalker. The entire point is that life and growth comes from struggle. Unless you're Zenos, where you never struggle and just get handed everything you ever wanted and that everyone else has to work so hard for. The entire world comes together to travel to the edge of the universe, and Zenos can't just pop in at the last moment because he's magic. Zenos brought the game down every time he showed up.
@@Skyblade12 Not true, Zenos fought just as much as we did, we wasn't just handed everything, the difference is that he only cared about power and felt no meaning from anything else. He mirrored us a lot, we were just given the echo, called to adventure, we're just powerful AF, if Zenos was considered handed everything then so are we. That's also what the body swap was meant to convey, we're the 2 most dangerous things in Eorzea but we fight for it and he fights for his own pleasure. Just because Zenos doesn't resonate with you, it doesn't make him meaningless. For a lot of us, his inclusion at the captured the point of the expansion. We should always have hope, cherish the happiness and bonds we have now and not sacrifice it for power or pointless progress. The meta commentary aside, that's actually been a constant theme from the beginning from the Garleans, the Allagans, Omega, Eulmore, etc, he is our foil that we must defeat after defeating the embodiment of the existential dread of the universe and the harsh truth that the pursuit of perfection and progress will always eventually lead to doom if we lose sight of the temporary happiness we have day to day.
When you theory craft your way out of getting the feels but stil succumb to them. Good reaction Quazi. I think that at the end of Ultima Thule we summoned Emet and Hytholodaeus because we didn't have the answer to the way forward and they were all we could think of. The two friends that our soul has known since before the sundering.
Man, I remember when Revenants Toll was a tent, a fence, an Aetheryte Crystal and 2 npcs. Watching it grow thru the ARR patches, the first time we met Rowena, the Domans arriving, the Domans going home... Saying goodbye to the Rising Stones is a milestone for sure...
Endwalker was extraordinarily deep and beautiful... such an amazing undertaking. Reliving this again with you really brought back just how beautiful it was. Thank you. I laughed so hard when Metieon says "Your determination defies all reason" and you said on stream, "Tell me about it." Loved that. Watching someone else play through Endwalker is a lot more satisfying after I've long finished it than I thought it'd be.... but it's always nice to share the experience of something so meaningful with others in the community...
It's such a testament to these characters and this writing, and this journey, that even though it never truly feels like the Scions are actually dead it still hits you the same way at the end. That last walk with only the twins was one of the hardest parts I've ever experienced in a game, knowing what was to come at the end of that path. The only thing I would change is to allow the player the choice to outright refuse Zenos his fight. In the end I ended up choosing the second option simply because it was the only way I could at least say to his face that regardless of what I said, and what he thought about my character, he wouldn't understand but to leave him alive would only invite further meaningless harm on those who didn't deserve it.
Yeah. Zenos never earned anything in his entire life, and certainly he did not earn that final prize. He should have been left alone, the worthless nonentity that he was.
If and when you're looking for something to do, I recommend going around and talking to all the guild masters and job trainers, along with any other important NPCs that you can find. Most of them have new things to say.
if you can find them(can't find AST girl and wish we encounter the guy she was meant to be with in sharlayan). Also Lyna, not sure if you can find Ryne nor Gaia. Also don't forget the waitress, don't think she had anything new for EW but didn't know she had something for Eden.
1:29:45 The timing of this is so perfect. It was like the writers knew what the players are feeling at that exact point. They were like telling, “So you’ve finally reach the finale. Oh come on, don’t be sad. This is not the end. There are many possibilities and directions we can go for future expansions.”. What is brilliant about it is, it felt like Emet Selch is actually talking to the player without having the need to break the fourth wall. What Emet Selch said is what I needed to here at that point so I won’t look back and so I would finish Endwalker right away.
@@Skyblade12 I personally hate and like Zenos at the same time. I hate that he has the motives of a cartoonish villain and what I like about his character is that among all villains, he was the only one who imposes fear in every cutscene he shows up because he is the only one who shows the possiblity of you losing to him unlike everybody else whom obviously you’ll beat up when you fight them. In the end though, I think Zenos benefitted from being just a simple character because there is no need for him to have much screen time and when he shows up in the end, you know why he is there, there is no need for extended explanation. What I don’t like though is that they took away what I like about Zenos. The final fight, it is obvious that you would win.
@@baconbits3731 The first loss to Zenos only happened because the devs said "sorry, you lose". The fight itself was ridiculously easy. The second fight had the exact OPPOSITE problem to what you said: You knew, as soon as they brought it up, that there was zero possibility that you would win. It was the single worst moment in the entire MSQ, when the entire story is derailed just to make you fight the end boss halfway through the expansion.
@@Skyblade12 Then what would you have them do with Zenos? The ending wasn’t perfect but given how they developed Zenos character, there were limited choices. The only other alternative I could think of is letting Zenos walk away after the last trial and that is if you want to keep the Shinryu entrance. BTW no altering of pre Endwalker events.
@@baconbits3731 Step 1: Make the first fight actually hard. Their forced losses in Stormblood and Shadowbringers were actually trash. Literally they were cakewalk fights until the sudden "you lose" moment was reached. By contrast, the forced losses in EW were FINALLY done properly, and actually merely overwhelmed you until the moment came when something happened and you were saved. Step 2: Drop the second fight entirely. It literally doesn't matter to the story anyway. Zenos comes to Doma, you divert from the story to attempt an assassination, he beats you, and he leaves. You can cut out that segment and lose nothing. Step 3: Actually Step 1 chronologically. Set him up more and explain where his power comes from. During the pre-Stormblood patch quests or something, show him as the powerful Imperial prince, trapped in his role like a day job worker, crushing rebellions or something. Do some setup and work to explain his power and his victory. Step 4: Allow us to walk away and leave him with nothing, and have him realize we will NEVER give him the fight he wants. Don't let him win by getting a battle from us. If players want to give him a battle? Sure, they can do so. But me? I'd let him rot. Giving him a fight is what he wants, the only way to make him lose is to not give him a fight. And as he already gets everything he wants whenever he wants it (even magically gets the power to teleport to the end of the universe when we have to work with the whole world to do it), I'd happily leave him wanting.
Congratz on completing the story. At the final fight with Zenos, me and many of my friends pick the first option and we never regret it. I did wonder what would be different in the other choices and seeing you pick it make me even gladder that I didn’t choose them. Not only did you not get to see “that” face of your character (recommended to check it out by yourself), your character actually starts the final grand battle with a sad face, now that makes me sad too. Your character has 2 faces, the hero/warrior of light and what you started as, an adventurer. 95% what you do during MSQ is as the WoL, I can only remember exactly 1 moment where we started an adventure in StB with Alphinaud and 1 other guy (sr cant remember his name). Then what else did we do as an adventurer? Everything else outside of the MSQ: from savage, ultimate, extreme to farming endlessly for mounts, glamours. So I do feel kinda sad that people who only ever touch the MSQ or people who started recently and rushed through it without touching side contents. They won’t be able to relate to the last part. I have only 2 full reactions, Quazii and Bellular, kinda sad that both can’t relate to it.
'That' face on a male Miqo'te looks positively Evil, and I LOVED it! (and it basically mirrored Zeno's when he took over our body). 😁 10/10 would choose 'that' option again! 👍 "HA! Acceptance at last!" (I miss my Frienemy, and leaving him 'there' just feels somehow... wrong... 😔)
I'm so glad I picked the first response as well. I watched my friend do it and picked a different response, and was disappointed in the WoL's reaction as well.
"That" face being smiling as you're giving the most worthless character in the story a prize he did not earn? I wish I had the option to walk away and leave him to rot. I cannot deny that I wanted a challenge, but I wanted an ACTUAL challenge, not a pathetic nonentity who is incapable of growth and is thus just as pathetic as he was when we crushed him back in Stormblood.
@@Skyblade12 He went to the end of the universe and helped us deal with the Endsinger. You can believe that you can totally deal with Endsinger without needing Zenos but to me, the appearance of Zenos helps change the mood drastically, from the solemn, grave atmosphere, where we just sent our Scion friends back and we are alone now, to the hype atmosphere, we are now on a hunt. And that, for me and many others, earn him his desired fight.
A day before Endwalker's Early Access my Grandpa passed away and to experience a Story like this directly afterwards made it much more harder. Though I'd critique Endwalker's Pacing at the beginning I wouldn't want to change anything since as an Ending of the Ark I think this is it. It's how one should do it: An fulminant Finale of the First Story Ark of Final Fantasy XIV's Success Story.. and looking at what happened in Endwalker the Gates of Possible Stories are wide open now. Yet.. I'd like to be able the explore the entire Planet and also I'll call The Source Hydaelyn, since Hydaelyn is the Source of Etheris' Sundering.
Yeah I felt the beginning forcing you to split worked a bit better to Shadowbringers. When I went the Radz route first I was intrigued and it teased the dungeon, but I had to go back to Shar and grin and bear it until I could go back. that was the most painful part for me, it was just slow pacing.
@@Renagadezzzz I didn't wanted to go to Sharlayan in the first place xD when Fran at the end of the Bozja Storyline said that maybe we meet in Dalmasca I was like "Screw Sharlayan! I go to Dalmasca instead!" but the MSQ shoved me to Sharlayan.. so I took the first opportunity to leave it and gone to Thavnair First.. which turned out pacing-wise a bad idea because now I can see that it was meant for the Player to do Sharlayan first^^
Quazii: "oh no, I forgot to glamour my shield" Me: "... That's the lvl 88 vendor shield... Quazii... did you forget to pick up the relic armor from Tartaru's shop?"
I love the hidden details! Notice she says "Dynamis?!" after he LB3 ( 1:53:23 ) referring to the fact that we had such a determination to perservere that we invoked dynamis and LB is actually us utilizing the power of dynamis.
Yes, this was also suggested by the Matanga lady. Their people call it by another name (I forgot what it was), but that was the first hint of Dynamis before we even learn of it in the expansion. She talked about finding the strength to break your limits in your adventure.
Yes and no. Under usual circumstances, a LB is just that. But we do have a habit of surpassing our limits. Ultima Thule is a domain of pure Dynamis, thus our emotions and beliefs help shape the reality of it. So thanks to us and the Scions, we could survive the Endsinger and defeat her. People seem to forget Dynamis is easily overpowered by aether if there’s more of it than Dynamis. Unless there’s a lot of it, can it overpower aether. So in theory, we will have minimal ability to influence Dynamis outside of Ultima Thule. But that little bit is enough for us.
Zenos - Best Friend. Searching you to the end of the universe and have 100% faith in your ability when the Scion always doubting WoL ability every 3 seconds.
I despised him. Worthless, trash character who gets handed everything that everyone else works so hard for. Literally undercutting every theme of the story.
@@Skyblade12 This is starting to sound like a projection through all your replies. I would say let people enjoy their thing and find something else you enjoy. Unless you just enjoy bringing people misery then I guess it is what it is.
Some members of my FC skipped every bit of MSQ just to grind EX and Savage after that and to me that it the equivalent of throwing away the mozzarella part of the game and drinking the liquid it was in. How can anyone throw away such a great story just to get to the mindless grind faster? I mean, I enjoy the fights now too, but man, this game is so much more than that.
so many details , some funny as hell (the Ragnarok pilot asleep in half the cutscenes because he's a narcoleptic bunny), some utterly poignant ("just once, stay with us to the end !"). but the best, strongest part of Endwalker will always be, to me, becoming Meteion's friend. the person she needs, the person she trusts. the one who can talk to her, share her feelings and thoughts, hold her hands in a field of flower, and comfort her when everything else is dark. it took us ages, aeons even, to find her again, but we did, and now it's gonna be ok :3
when zenos asks you if you fight for pleasure he's actually breaking the foruth wall and asks the player, if you enjoyed the adventure, fighting mighty foes. That's why "that, i can't deny" is the best answer. Look it up how zenos reacts to this answer :) zepla choose this answer
I would have answered that, had Zenos been a mighty foe. But he wasn't. We beat him back in Stormblood. And, since he is a character who cannot struggle, he is a character who cannot grow. Thus, he was just as weak and pathetic as when we beat him two expansions ago. He is the only character in the game who cannot challenge the WoL, and we should have been able to leave him behind like the worthless nothing that he is.
@@Skyblade12 Zenos beat us twice in Stormblood before the final fight. Name any other character in the story who actually beat us in a fight? You can't. It doesn't matter if Zenos hasn't struggled in the way you expect. He's not the main character. Not every character in an RPG needs to have character growth and struggle. You're naïve and ignorant as a gamer.
@@Skyblade12 I mean it's arguable that Zenos had character growth, it just wasn't what you wanted which is fine. The fact that he came to help as he realized that was the only way he'd get the fight he wanted signifies that he at least began to understand what the WoL fights for. Personally I really liked Zenos and I think they made a point of saying (through Zenos himself) that his personality was a struggle on its own. He couldn't feel anything except through fighting and thus we were the only one he ever felt anything with so it makes sense that he was so desperate. I doubt he particularly enjoyed feeling nothing all the time either, otherwise why would he be so intent on finally fighting us again instead of just moving on. When he asks if life was a gift or a burden I think he's speaking of himself. And while I can see why people might not like him compared to the other villains who had "reasons" for being evil and his was simply that he only felt emotion from combat. I don't know why some people seem to get IMMENSE hatred when he's brought up at all though. I noticed you commented many, many,.. many times under other people's comments and you mention that he never had to work for anything. I'm pretty sure that was a major point of his character though. He never had to struggle, he was never challenged, and he HATED it. It's why he was so adamant about fighting us. The only person who ever presented a challenge and he had never felt that before. Dislike him as much as you want but I don't think it's fair to say the FF team didn't consider his traits/actions intently. I do wish they decided to tackle the end to his arc differently though, maybe delved into his consciousness a bit more since it definitely seemed they were going the route of some kind of mental illness. I'd argue he may have even been clinically depressed idk. He just came off as a sad/tragic character and it would have been nice to have gotten a resolution to that.
@@marslara Part of it is that they implemented Zenos' fights really, REALLY badly. In Stormblood, neither of his fights are remotely challenging. You don't lose to Zenos. The WoL does, and it feels awful, because it breaks your connection and faith in the character as your avatar. Forced failures are really hard to do well, and the ones in Stormblood and Shadowbringers just felt awful right from the beginning. The connection between a player and their avatar is critical in any video game, and those fights really damaged that. What's more, none of the rules of the setting seem to apply to Zenos. You get stronger by overcoming trials. You can't take on massive beasts at the beginning of the story, they'd crush you. You work at it, you get stronger. The other strong characters have all similarly worked and grown. Except Zenos. Similarly, you have to unite the world and work and grow to reach the end of the universe. Zenos just does it. It makes your entire journey feel worthless, because why even bother, when Zenos can do it all? And why bother with that final fight? They've already brought Zenos back from the dead once before and deus ex machina'd him to the end of the universe. Why would I believe that a fight would mean anything, when nothing else with the character has meant nothing? The rules don't apply to Zenos. He's a walking immersion break, and to have him as the culmination of the journey just soured the entire thing to me. And, yes, any time I think long about it I get salty and upset. The rest of the game was great, but it would honestly be improved if he was just purged from it entirely. There is only one scene in all three expansions with him in it that he brings anything positive, and that's the scene with Jullus in Garlemald. Everywhere else he could be either cut or replaced and nothing would be lost.
@@Skyblade12 Well I'm pretty sure you kill an ascian like super early on in the story so I don't know how fair it is to say the WoL wasn't really strong from the get go.. I don't think Zenos just became OP out of nowhere either. It was probably a combination of training as a prince and or just being a prodigy in the same way the WoL is, especially when it comes to mastering new jobs. And who knows, maybe emet-selch played a role in it being his grandfather and all... And there are also many characters in which we never saw their growth period. It's understood that they got to that point somehow, Zenos was just the first human other than the WoL to reach a higher limit than everyone else. So I don't think him being strong makes our efforts ever feel worthless as Zenos himself has said that we have the same powers if we so choose (such as taking over primals) but the 'morality/lack of knowledge' of it keeps us from taking the "easier" routes in most cases. I wouldn't consider the routes Zenos took to reach that level as extremely easy though or as though they were given to him. Even just having the resonant took time and planning. A majority of Zenos' strength appears to be similar to a lot of shonen villains, strong because they were born into the right circumstances and with the ability to nourish their strength. Arguably the same as WoL.. And honestly, Zenos fights seem to be a by-product of instanced fights in general. They never want to make those too difficult so thats unfortunate. I don't even remember most instanced fights anyway so I don't care about them. I suppose they could have made them actually difficult but just long so even if you manage them, eventually the WoL gets exhausted or something idk. Or even give him optional extremes like his dad since I see extremes as canon since they're more difficult. I definitely doubt they'd bring him back as he is though. We may see his soul or a reincarnation/reflection but I don't think we'll actually see him normally again which as I said before is sad to me. I'm not sure if more people would appreciate Zeros if they focused more on his psychology rather than attempting to just make him a main antagonist or not but I would have liked to see it. Imagine if they had treated him more like estinien, I'm curious.
I love all the littles details and bits of fan service. Seeing the primals and the throw back to 1.0's opening. The bit between Susano, Garuda and Bismarck: The 3 storm primals - Lightning, Wind and Water. How each sacrifice was reinforcing the ideology that Hydalyn worked so hard to teach us: where a little bit of hope, happiness and faith in others can push back even the greatest of despair and is the foundation that allows us to ever move forward. Hearing the voices from our past (also hilarious that you actually walked away from all the ones in the beginning!). Bringing in Hip and Emet, the field of flowers, The scion's reactions after saving us. The people we expect to cry crying over us, those reaction of the others who didn't. Alisaie finally breaking down into full "dere" mode. And then the end credits. How that moment lines up with the music. Took my breath away.
I have to admit I teared up so many times. I love watching you go through it and seeing how often the tears were shared. What really hits me is how our friends are always there for us. No matter how far they have to go, they are there. They come. It really makes you feel loved by the cast.
yes but we dont know how the big bang was activated anyway, so their hypothesis doesnt account the beginning because in order for something to end it has to have a beginning but we dont know how it began and we dont know if it was even a beginning maybe it was the end of something else. So their theory and their despair doesnt make sense
@@eastbow6053 Ultimately the reason for their despair is that they will exist long enough to see this end and as far as they understand be completely powerless, unable to stop it from happening. Once the despair kicked in they lost the drive to find solutions. Which is why Y'shtola once she understood it could deny it, because unlike them she would seek to find solutions to the problem. From their perspective the inability to stop it was the absolute truth, from her perspective they simply do not possess the knowledge to find a way to stop it but she would keep searching for the knowledge to figure out how to stop it where they had simply given up.
@@eastbow6053 Their despair was tied to their arrogance. They believed that they knew everything. They could not conceive of the idea that there may be things inexplicable to them.
Thru this entire final zone, knowing how close we were to the end of this journey, and I knew they gave us the out early on. I couldn't discount the idea that instead of killing one or two Scions, they would kill them all. Each goodbye was so final, so pure and left no loose threads. I wasn't completely convinced they would live until they did.
I sort of get that, but they really did explain it in a way that it left almost no doubt. With Hydaelyn empowering the Stone of Azem to make the unwhole, whole again and even (Ystola?) Explaining that although we have the stone, we cannot use it to bring them back too early as it would remove the bridges that bar the way forward. The only thing I wasn't 100% sure about was Thancred, since it seemed more like he was obliterated by Mideon.
I cried when i first finished the MSQ even now when i watch the reactions i can't stop tearing up. My adventure started back in 2011 with my Failing Q8400 and HD4660. That overheated alot because of its potato coding. Up to Realm Reborn when i saw My server closed. i breath a sigh of relief because i really liked the game but hated the execution then 2013 with ARR released up to 2015's HW and 2017's STB and 2019 SHB to 2021 EW. This game never fails to amaze me. And along with the flow of time i met alot of people some became friends other became passer and others became memories. Alot of good times and bad times in between but one thing is constant throughout the years FFXIV never failed me. When i needed an escape FFXIV was there for me. Thanks Yoshi-P and Squeenix. for everything and thank you Quazii for the great reaction.
Im so glad that you thought the same thing about the finally fight with Zenos. I was watching the weakened punches going back and forth and the talking while just laying there was totally just like Naruto.
The Choices you make at the end, have it own definition of how you see Zenos as a whole. Our Journey, we all have our own; meaningful and valuable, as a whole. But if you pay close attention or maybe not but he mentioned to us 2 Words; You....not as WoL but "You". and he knows you well.....as "Adventurer" When you first step in Etheirys. Adventurer who wandering all over the Etheirys, to solve, give, take, fight, etc. Win or lose, pain or joy, smile or cry. Still, don’t forget that who we are as our first identity, Adventurer.
During the Lead Up to fighting Emet in Shadowbringers, that whole cutscene gave me chills. Graha popping off the chant for the spell and the music kicking in with the WoL looking passed the beams to Emet "I Challenge you Emet-Selch" oooh man, goose bumps
My favorite part about that whole sequence with the remote control is that after so many years of the Scions of the seventh Dawn doing things Reckless and self-destructive to save the warrior of light, staying behind to help him Escape, getting in the way of attacks that he could have easily blocked, people dying in his name to "preserve the light of Hope," worrying his ass sick, ever since 2.55 and the banquet it's been one thing after another and he hasn't been allowed to be the guy that stays behind and fights and be the hero, it's finally his turn. He gets to save THEM. When he awakens on the ship it is quite plain that they now feel his pain and hopefully they finally realize that after all these years they've been worried about his safety but they never gave any thought to how much they were worrying him.
Yeah, that question was so meta^^ The Devs didnt make him ask that question to our Character, he asked us. We s the players, who always seek the next challenge. Who always thirst for the next adventure... That... we can't deny!
@@Raoul9753 We can't deny it, because he didn't let us. I'd have GLADLY abandoned that worthless character instead of granting him the ultimate reward that he did nothing to earn.
@@Skyblade12 So... I guess you never did any Ultimate TRial for the Challenge or reward? Never did Palace of the Dead solo to see how far you can go? You only ever played MSQ to be heroic and then stoped?
@@Raoul9753 This is my first time playing at a point where a challenge is relevant. Even then, no, I haven't done any just for the challenge. I did Bozja for the experience and completing the relic, not for the challenge. I enjoyed the challenge of DR, but that wasn't my motivation. More importantly, however, is that Zenos is the only character in the game who cannot challenge the WoL. Zenos does not struggle, which means he does not grow. He's the same worthless nobody that we destroyed back in Stormblood. He gets given power unearned. He gets given the trip to the end of the universe that the entire rest of the world works so hard for. And he gets given a fight the he doesn't deserve. He certainly doesn't deserve to be the one to exhaust my character. I wanted an actual CHALLENGE. Not a rematch against a worthless nonentity who I crushed without care two expansions ago. A red chocobo would have been a better final challenge than Zenos. Give me a character who can actual be a challenge. Pit me against a rematch against Emet-Selch with his full memories back, or Venat, as a teacher handing a torch off to the student, or any actual character who can challenge me, instead of Zenos, who is barely a character at all.
@@Skyblade12 You already killed Hydaelyn (Whatever that was about, random "ok, I die now because story demands it!") and Emmet has really no reason to fight you again. Zenos was the last loose thread at that point. Though is was kinda sad that we didnt get the option to get him the psychological help he needed, since Zenos was clearly suffering from psychological issues coming from his inability to relate to anyone but the WoL, who doesnt give him the attention he craves back... If you stop and think about if any steps more than "oh, hes a douche!" he becomes a pretty tragic character... Not sure which Illness he has, I dont think its clinical depression, and I am no psychologist, but I think the Character of Zenos would make an Interesting subject.
2:08:01 Wrong answer man, wrong answer! XD The correct one was 'That, I can't deny.' You lost the best delivery of a line in the entire game. 'FINALLY ACCEPTANCE!' \o/
I can't deny that I want a challenge, but I can deny that Zenos can provide one, or that Zenos has earned a fight with me. Give me ANY other character and that role, and they may actually be a challenge. Zenos is literally the ONLY character in the story who cannot challenge the WoL.
@@Skyblade12 And yet he's the only one who's ever beaten the Warrior of Light. Multiple times. You're simply pathetic Skyblade. And you wouldn't be a challenge to him either.
I had to step away for a few minutes after Raha leaves and the full song kicks in… wife consoled me as the onions were cut and diced. Even now, watching your recap.
I remember that if you beat Omega raid(SB's raid),you will get a choice when G'Raha is talking about where that place is. And you will get a G'Raha's cute part if you chose answer 3.
After Estinien, I thought, "No chance they are dead." But then as we got down to G'raha and the Twins I thought, "Oh no, this is enough for a Trust regardless of the class you are playing..." And that weirdly sold me on the fact that they might go through with it again. Then after G'raha, I was again convinced, "No chance." Weirdly it was mechanical considerations that sold me on the story.
All the shades during the final walk are voices from the past, you missed a few before you climbed the stairs. You can redo it in New Game+ next time for the full experience. Hope you had a good rest after the game, not sleeping for more than 24 hour must be tiring. Please take good care of yourself!
What a journey, this game will stay with me forever, I have to go refill my water supply from the tears. Onward to the next journey Quazii !!!! I have never play a game that impacted me this much emotionally
The final scene with zenos, is in a place where emotion is reality. i think, that while his life was spent, he wanted us to live, for both of us, enjoy the happiness he never had.
@@Renagadezzzz The fight shouldn't have even happened. We should have been able to walk away and abandon that worthless character who should have been dropped from the story a long time ago.
@@Skyblade12 No matter how many comments you post here, you'll never be able to erase this aspect of the game which was created by Yoshi-P and his design team. They clearly don't believe as you do. Thankfully.
@@princessjello And I'm sorry you feel the need to bring me back to this. Because being reminded of how shit the ending to the game was is absolutely what I wanted. Nevermind that I had forgotten that worthless character and moved on, you just had to go and remind me of how literally everything in the story was tossed aside for a worthless battle against a character that meant nothing to me. Thanks for that.
1:13:43 LOL, at the endwalking you dodged most of the voices from the past ?! well, that happens for some player with lack of sleep, I think... anyway, voices from the past, when you walk through them will trigger an emotional speech of several characters we met throughout the game. there are actually 14 of them (of 15 voices) which is perfectly fit the number 14. here it goes by order: 1. Ardbert 2. Haurchefant 3. Merlwyb 4. Aymeric 5. Nanamo 6. Raubahn 7. Kan-E Senna 8. Hien 9. Papalymo 10. Edmont de Fortemp 11. Begg Lugg 12. Ryne 13. Midgardsommr 14. Minfilia 15. Ardbert (once again) Nothing to worry tho, I'm quite certain that at some point of time they will add this part into new game+ for sure.
After Thancred disappeared. I was like saying to myself: "So we will end up with just me." At that moment, I never expected that I will be right. And then I am wrong. Ishikawa gave the end that we really wanted, after destroying our souls.
Thancred is the last one to be up during the suffocation part for good reason, he's the only scion that has been swimming all the way through the salt lake and up into the ala mhigan keep if I recall, he's known for being able to hold his breath underwater for a long time, without the blessing of the Kojin. Edit: OH NO HE AVOIDED THE GHOSTS
QUAZIL, you have to go redo the "You're not alone quest! You're supposed to walk next to the black ghosts! Im freaking out over here that you missed 8 of them!
To me, Zenos is the WOL without meaning. Without a connection to others. All that matters is how strong they are. It takes time to digest everything EW throws at us. Great writing.
zenos is all the people who buy skips. op as fuck for no reason with no other motiation than to be stronger and kill bigger things. he's a mirror to the player and not the character, especially when he says "hear mme, not as a heo but as simply, you." another hint is he also literally smashed the fourth wall as shinryu, think they meant for that little connection to be made
@@avenoktys3253 Yeah. Amazing that they undercut literally every message of the story to give a cautionary tale to the audience that won't even see it.
I'd also like to point out the genius of the launch trailer where they deliberately put Alphinaud a death flag causing us the first moment of despair. Little did we know, that was the point of the entire expansion; despair and to find strive for little happiness we can find. Bravo!
What makes this prayer so much more powerful than the prayer they did for master louisoix is that they are surrounded by dynamis. Yes, we cant control dynamis, but what better way for a mere human to control dynamis other than sincere prayer and hope? At this point, scions have as much power as meteion has. Meteion doesnt have exclusivity on dynamis. If she can, then so can we. Once the scion have the heart of it, meteion is toast. Her final enrage phase doesnt even remotely hurt.
Fun thing, the scene of the primals coming from the light orb is the same vision the WoL had in the 1.0 trailer after Midgard blew up the Garlean ship in the Lake of Tears.
Merry Christmas Quazii hope you're having a great holiday! I'm surprised Quazii! You said you cant relate to any thing Zenos said because you enjoy raiding and technical mechanics in all sorts of fight. The way I took it was that he was talking to you the character and you the player, controller of all actions the character does. He wasnt talking to the hero of eorzea but to you. To me I was being called out for being a degenerate raider, S rank hunter, and fate camper lol. There was no higher calling to doing it like saving the land or anything like that though we can say logically thats what we want its more that will come while I'm doing this thing that will get me loot. Pleasure and Suffering from the grind itself!
Primals manifesting into Ragnarok is a reference to 1.0 trailer. BTW. Ea's revelation of universe ending in is a real world theory. Entropy. It's a real thing. Meteion "I want to HEAR your words, share you THOUGHTS, know your FEELINGS." Hear, Feel, Think originates from her.
It's more than a theory, the heat death of universe so far is one of two hypotheses that actually scientifically explain the known phenomena within quantum mechanics.
Ladies and gentlemen, raise a toast to Quazii Modo and Melon-kun. We've watched them walk a long and winding road, from humble beginnings to the far ends of creation and home once more. As a veteran who's been around since 2.0, watching your journey from its first steps to its final embers has been an absolute treat, and I think I speak for all of us when I say it's been a joy to have you walking the Traveler's path with us. See you in the next adventure, my friend! Our journey will never end!
You can see the change of reaction from Meteions as you travel through Ultima Thule, the first encounter was extremely hostile and inhuman, and the last one before the Dead Ends was greatly different, she seems a lot of humanlike, having some anger and disbelief on your stubbornness but at the same time showing her way of "caring." I especially like the moment when Hermes' word crossed with WoL's face.
I mean we summoned 7 people for Endsinger, Also Zenos was empowered by Shinryu - I'd imagine he still retains its potency, not to mention you are both feeding off untapped Dynamis all around you.
@@Renagadezzzz I mean, yeah, we fight an actual challenge, and then we fight a worthless nonentity who is given everything he wants and never has to struggle for anything. And, never struggling, is incapable of growing. Which means that he's just as weak as he was back in Stormblood. We should have been allowed to walk away from that worthless nobody.
![How to Get a Developer Job - Even in This Economy [Full Course]](/img/n.gif)
Zenos be like * breaks in from time and space * "I've been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty."
Fun fact: When Estinien sacrifices himself, he brings the wind. There are no Aether currents until after he does this. They're only around Ea and Base Omicron. Thought that was pretty cool.
so, are we collecting bits of estinien the whole time in ultima thule?
@@aronth I mean, if you play healer, cleaning up bits of Dragoon is kinda the norm...
@@VorAbaddon
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XD
@@VorAbaddon LMFAO. Thanks for the good laugh.
@@VorAbaddon i hate u lol
The conversations before and after this fight made me realize what Zenos is, narratively. He's us if we never had limits to break. We started from nothing, an average adventurer who constantly exceeded every challenge put in front of them, growing stronger and stronger. Meanwhile, Zenos was born into royalty, and was already absurdly strong even before the resonance. His limits were so high that nothing could push them, no matter how much he wanted it to, and that turned him into the apathetic bloodlusted monster we met in Stormblood. Until the day we challenged him, and he finally encountered a challenge for the first time in his life. Of course he latched onto us the way he did. But after his revival, he just couldn't figure out how to capture that feeling again. He didn't understand why we wouldn't fight him just to fight him. He couldn't understand why we prioritized things he viewed as trifling, because he'd never had to.
It was only after Alisaie spoke to him in Garlemald that he finally figured it out. He wouldn't be able to draw us out by enraging us, or by creating greater threats. Even when he was the greatest threat to Eorzea, he still couldn't get us to give him the fight he wanted. So instead of antagonizing us, he realized there would need to be no obligations left for us. That, and he wouldn't be able to force us into it. So, now that he had started to understand, he came to our aid, helped us finish our obligations, then challenged us, not as a villain, but as a rival, the friend he always thought he was to us.
And he finally got his wish
maybe the real answer is the friends we made along the way.
I think you're a bit off. Zenos to me is a representation of loneliness and despair. He knows no enjoyment, no connections to anyone. He latches onto the 1 thing he has any feeling from. This is really similar to how a lot of people in depression deal with it regardless if it is healthy or not. You skip school to play video games because it gives joy and escape from your depression. It's not because he didn't understand because he never had to. He didn't understand because he never had any until he found enjoyment from you. Also it's why he goes out of his way to help you instead of hurt you to seek approval and acceptance after Alisae basically calls him a self centered asshole. The WoL represents hope obviously. It also shows at the end he isn't some apathetic monster he is clearly emotional as he dies feeling most likely bittersweet enjoying the fight but feeling empty still. Maybe regretting it. We never get his answer. I don't think you're wrong it's probably both.
ähze is a bit like King Haggard from the last Unicorn too. Desperately running after this one moment of happyness.
in the word of the joker to batman " You complete me"
So, he has godlike power without really having to work for it and feels like no one likes him? So, he’s a level skipper? Yeah, that makes sense.
*To Fellow Warriors of Light: Has your journey been good? Has it been worthwhile? - P.S. I didn't realize I skipped half the ghost on the first time till I played it through again on the 2nd try. Brains weren't working at this point, I been playing for 24 hours in a row. Worth every ounce of fatigue though (:*
Really a no thoughts head empty moment there 🤣
It's been so incredibly worthwhile
the journey has been fantastic and i'm with you. the ending was absurd and bonkers and i loved it.
Absolutely
Did you find....fulfillment?
Yes zenos. It was a sad, bitter and marvelous journey. As life.
WOW: An alien world like you've never seen!
FFXIV: hold my nihilism
Understandable, have a final days
Fun fact: There's a hidden dialogue with Urianger when you talk to all the scions to know their plans for the future in which he suggests that the reason the teleporter appeared and took you to safety after the Zenos fight was something that happened as the last wish of Zenos himself, because that place was made purely of dynamis.
So he actually saved you twice, as you did not need to die with him there, he knew you still had much to live and he got his wish fullfilled.
That's huge!
if he truly dies. who know if the writer suddenly want to bring him back momentarily as shinryu something like that. still doubt he will
Three times! It was the combined effort of Raha and Zenos that prevented the black rose from killing us - Raha pulled us out of the timeline, but Zenos killed Varis (and so prevented black rose from being used quite so catastrophically). Admittedly, it is a less direct rescue.
that is definitely not even close to what he says, everyone has different theories about what he actually meant but yes, this could be one scenario
@@blugill2273 I feel like he was left on the edge of the universe, in the middle of nothing, as far as possible away from everything as a sort of "he's finally done and there's no way he's coming back" deal, but ya never know.
It actually makes a LOT of sense that Zenos would be able to come join you at the battle against the Endsinger.
Remember what happened when we (in the Ragnarok) hit the edge of Meteion's "Ultimatum" (the edge of her sphere of influence)? Basically we would have died if not for Thancred's sacrifice to ensure that we could survive. We were able to advance through Ultima Thule (which is the name of an icy body out in the Kuiper Belt in our solar system) due to our companions sacrificing themselves. But at the end against the Endsinger, she had created her own dimension and we had evacuated our companions back to the ship. I don't know if they would have been able to break through (Thancred did a similar thing in the fight against Hades, so it's possible), but it likely would have cost them their lives.
Zenos, on the hand, is someone at least our equal in strength. AND, as a psychopath who has the clearest goal for living amongst anyone we know, he would have also been able to force his way through to our side. Remember, he doesn't have any despair or doubts about his motivation for living. He just wants to fight us at the peak of both of our strength. After traveling back to Ala Mhigo, he realized that he could never draw out our full attention by merely being the villain or antagonist. He could only get his wish by helping us so that we no longer had anything else to distract us.
Nobody else in the story had both the mental state AND the power to be able to come and assist us like Zenos did.
While you are right Ultima thule is the name (well, was) of an icy body in the Kuiper Belt, its also a term that means "The farthest place you can explore" through the ages there have been different "Ultima thules" and the current one is called that because it was the farthest place one of our satelites got, at least at the time.
The edge of the universe is the most Ultima thule that can be.
Venat said the mothercrystal is the will of the star, the only person strong enough to wield that power at the time was Zenos. So I guess in this unlikely vessel, which I think is amazing btw, we have the will of the star coming to help us fight against the Endsinger in a symbolic way.
Except Zenos didn't help us do anything. He showed up so the Endsinger left, then we rode on his back to chase her down. She was perfectly content to fight us before he showed up. He was a solution to a problem he created.
@@WarlordPayne Except that area was her realm and if she had chosen to simply move back a little and bombard the small platform with attacks we would have been utterly unable to do anything. The only thing able to keep up in range to fight her was zenos even if i think the dragon thing was a bit stupid.
And that is if you totally ignore the the whole emotion aspect the WoL would have been feeling at that point until zenos came and somewhat pulled things back to a position that seemed somewhat winnable considering the WoL and scions had just been trounced a few moments prior.
@@kristen8701 It wasn't "her realm", it was the realm of emotion. Ours would matter just as much as hers.
The last conversation with Metion she asks to HEAR your words, share your FEELings, and know your THOUGHTS. The accumulation of thousands of years of Vanat's search for answers to Metion's question.
Hydaelyn already told us the full phrase in the Hydaelyn Trial. The "Hear, Feel, Think" phrase we hear was cut off, presumably due to Hydaelyn's waning power. The full phrase is;
"HEAR the song of Creation's end. FEEL the sorrow at Hope's Demise. THINK and find your way in the darkness."
Watching him just walk past all the shades was genuinely painful
i agree, i dont normally dislike videos but that i couldn't bare
@@FFadddict well it is not dislike worthy, never implied such thing
@@FFadddict He didn't know. That's a mistake from the devs IMO. When I worked on software in IT I was thought to create for idiots. You never know what the end user will try to do, so you must guide them and make exceptions for unexpected things. It would be better if those voices trigger when you move past the shadow, even if you're not close to it.
It's def sad though for him to miss so much in such a important moment.
@@kbsskb788 yeah, that's very true actually, I was also thinking the same thing the other day about how the voices should play no matter where you are.. I bet he is not the 1sr to do this nor will he be the last but it is very saddening nonetheless but yeah maybe i should have not been so harsh
@@kbsskb788 dont think that the devs knew, that someone would go all the way to Narnia just to avoid the shades. As hand-holding the msq is its not that idiotproof
I love how at the end "reaching" Meteon isn't entirely just chasing her to her lair. It's also "reaching" to a person entrapped in hopelessness and despair with hope and love. We silence the song of despair with the song of hope by replacing despair with hope. And in the end that's what lets us reach her, by finding that one part of her and giving her hope. It's gorram beautiful.
Our song of hope she dances on the wind, higher, oh higher
Yeah, even if the story doesn't always make logical sense, it hits very hard emotionally and philosophically if you suspend your disbelief
@@Carsu12 It makes perfect logical sense in the game's universe, as our universal laws of reality clearly don't apply. Applying real life logic to fictious fantasy works would be like trying to fit square peg into a round hole.
@@samuelconnel2166 no, I'm talking about in universe logic. Most jarring being time travel shenanigans, which work differently pretty much every time they happen
@@Carsu12 The only inconsistent time travel is G'raha's to go back and avert the calamity. Both Alexander and Elpis are stable time loops.
20:28 thancred isn’t stronger than you, he has practice able to stop his heart and breathing in shadowbringers. He also has a lot of negative pent up emotions all the time so I’m guessing that also helped him to stay conscious for longer.
yea he actually reduces his vitals in the fight vs grumpy old man to prevent him from spotting him , so this was like Deja vu for him
Yep, i'd agree that Thancred's training just makes him stronger when everyone has to work with less. He's been dealing with being disabled since Post-HW after all.
the final payoff to the joke about him being able to hold his breath for 10 minutes
Meteion uses dynamis to "drown out" the Scions' aether. Thancred's aether is distorted from when Y'shtola saved them back in ARR. It's also the reason he needed Ryne to enchant his ammo for him.
Dude you missed half the feels on the final walk, you should have walked near each of those shades.
I have no idea why someone would skip something that was so obviously placed in the game for the player to encounter, especially during such a significant part of the story.
@@MattComerrunfaster that highlights a design fault of the planner for this piece... the new road was sparkly/shiny, so a similar thing should have been used to draw out a route that passed by the shades. Or, perhaps required you to interact with them to continue. Nothing really hints at what their purpose is unless the player tries to interact.
Without such force on the player, you can always expect there'll be at least one who doesn't (though, I didn't expect Quazii would be an example, though).
@@temisu_namisu I wouldn't say it's a design fault. The beings that were never there through the entire game, suddenly appears, clearly in the path to the shiny path.
Why would anyone just go "oh those are nothing I'll ignore them"
that hurt to watch but i mean he hadn't slept in 24 hours lol
Totally THIS! There are key quotes all the way from 1.0 spoken by the shades! I don't know how anyone would be like nope they are not important even though they just popped into the world on the dang path!
Glad that I was not the only one who cried/tried to hold tears when song's lyric started after Graha sacrificed himself. This zone melted me emotionally with every step of MSQ
@@robincollins8215 I don't think anyone actually expected the Scions to die, especially after the dev post saying that they weren't shooting for a tragic ending (or something along those lines.) Endwalker's strengths lie in the culmination of 11 years of story, of world building, of character development. *Of the journey you've gone through thus far.*
The fact it also forces players to spend time thinking about the nature of living in a universe where life is doomed to fail is also a big strength. It tackles a topic that many of us would rather not spend very much time ruminating on because it's fucking depressing in a way that's satisfying.
You don't need to kill everyone to elicit genuine emotional reactions. I was in tears the moment I stepped on Ultima Thule, and Thancred's self-sacrifice had absolutely nothing to do with it.
@@robincollins8215 Thing is though, it wasn’t that simple. If you were paying attention, you would know that we couldn’t just summon them back lest we make the very air we breathe disappear. We first had to figure out, through the final walk that there are many others that cared for us and were praying for us to win. If it was a break out of jail button, we would’ve just summoned them back right after they all died, but the true reasoning of the story is that we could only summon them back because we were able to overcome the despair of Meteion through all the other people we knew.
@@robincollins8215 really? you're saying that there's problems with jail break buttons NOW? you realise y'shtola has died 2 or 3 times, don't you? thancred was caught in that first death, and honestly could've died after his fight with ran'jiit in ShB too, it certainly felt like it ought to have been a death, too. g'raha "died" when emet-selch shot him in the back, and he "died" after being crystallised in the tower during ShB. estinien's had his death prevented by you and alphinaud too, the scions have "died" or had near-death experiences constantly throughout FFXIV, why is your breaking point now in endwalker when for the first time, both hydaelyn and y'shtola clarified that they could all be brought back from dissipation, and the loporrits and moenbryda's parents confirmed the teleporters were a thing?
are you dense?
@@MrTalithan Journey of disrespectful jebaits? Because they bait you to cry with that weak ass presentation and you all got it. I saw those baits a mile away. No way they are getting any tears from me like how they did with Seto and when Ardbert returns to their friends his axe clean of blood
@@tjongdavid1921 What baits? I already mentioned the sacrifices had absolutely no impact on my emotions.
I always feel "That, I can't deny" is the best choice for Zenos, he seems so happy
Why would I want to make such a worthless character happy?
I agree, his eyes just light up. I hope he found what he was looking for in the end.
@@Skyblade12 In a way you're just like Zenos. You aren't able to understand other peoples' motivations, goals and wants.
@@Skyblade12 He's not talking to the Warrior of Light in that moment is why. He's talking to... The Adventurer... He is talking to YOU. And all of what he says is true.
@@Akeche And, as ME, I have zero desire to fight Zenos. Zenos never beat ME. His fights were pathetically easy. He beat the WoL, because the writers gave him a "you win" button. A victory for ME would be denying Zenos what he wants.
I was dying inside when I saw Quazii missing those Voices from the Past...
The Scions praying isn't just a throwback to the ARR trailer, that was based on the final msq of 1.0.
The way the primals are summoned is also a throwback to the 1.0 trailer (which SE mysteriously posted up on their channel like a week or two before EW launched), they really went all out to show some love to every bit of the game's story and history.
@@ericmoll1530 AAAAH YOURE RIGHT i just remembered that they reposted it! thats fuckin awesome hahahah
Not only that, but also a nod to FF4 where basically the same thing happened at the end of that game. There were so many FF4 references in Endwalker, and it's been very impressive how the FF14 team uses so much from the old games but makes it their own to fit their story.
Watching him walk past those shades at the end and not hear them made me cover my mouth in surprise for a moment. Been a great watch regardless though. Good job Endwalker.
This is proof that you don't need to murder all the characters to make an incredible, emotional story. It all comes down to the writing.
Well if you find said incredible story let me know, because the one we got for Endwalker was some weak trope filled nihilistic trash. The final days were the cause of a depressed zoo keeper and his fucking pet bird 😑
@@craigyoung2261 You missed the entire point of the expac. Was it a bit nihilistic? Yes. But it's a about finding hope and meaning in life despite that. The themes were deep and philosophical and I'm sorry you didn't feel the same.
@@craigyoung2261 Imagine playing a Final Fantasy game and not liking anime bullshit. It's been a core part of the series from the beginning.
@@KLGChaos Uuuhh bud, where have you been your whole life? You just learned it through ff14? There are plenty other stories with similar theme, hence "trope". I mean don't get me wrong, it's true and all obviously, but after the mind-boggle of ShB story where the community is divided to 2 groups, using this theme with "my friends are my power" trope overdone by many many shonen anime is cringe, lackluster at best. And there are also moments where they disrespect the character
@@tjongdavid1921 Dude, it's a Japanese game that follows closely to themes in old FF games. If you don't like it, gtfo and go back to playing WoW. You have great story there. Oh wait.
at Elpis, it was WoL and Meteion show to Hermes that others also feels despair through the flower. then later at Ultima Thule, it was WoL, Emet-Selch and Hythlodeous shows to Meteion that others also feels hope, through the same flower.
in the end it is all about Song of Hope vs Song of Oblivion
So what you are saying is its two bards having a battle of the bands all along
Unfortunately, no. In the end, it's all about the whiny brat who is given everything that everyone else has to work so hard for. Zenos just completely undermines the entire game.
@@Skyblade12 dude you are so salty about zenos haha, i hated him too but he had a nice ending
@@VegettoTico2648 I am. I've gotten exposed to a few other takes that have helped lessen that somewhat, but I really don't think the character was handled particularly well (ESPECIALLY in Stormblood). Nor do I think that he should have gotten his victory by actually getting a fight at the end. I should have been allowed to walk away.
@@Skyblade12 i dont count stormblood Zenos because that was a different writter, even since we got to Shadowbringers his development has increased expontentially
this expac is such a philosophical ride, I love it. And with the Zenos bit, I answered "That, I can't deny" for me WoL is a hero drives by the determination and prioritized to protect those I love, however, the thrills of battle is also the thing that I seek.
I noticed that your WoL frown both when she answered the question and at the beginning of the battle, mine WoL gave a sneer face which is also a nice touch from the developers. In the end, I wish there is an option to walk away and leave him behind unsatisfied.
theres no option to walk away because what zenos says is true from both an in game and meta perspective. By the end, he understood how to challenge you. As an antagonist and not a villain. From a developer perspective, they would have to integrate him in future stories for the people who walked away somehow. If you noticed, of the 3 options you choose, You either answer honestly which is yes or dodge the question and say it ends here. There is no "your wrong".
Zenos spoke to you as you and not as a hero in that moment. He makes the notion that taking aside the heroics, your a thrill seeker and at your core you adventure or seek that high for no reason than your own self interest. At the baseline, this is true removing the upper layers of morals. That is the common ground found between WoL and him and is true to the player. Meta wise, its true because we always want more. More story, more content, more challenge. For a raider, its no question. In story, your Azem, the traveller and seeking new adventures, challenge or thrills is what you are.
@@lostvayne9146 Actually, no. Meta-wise, I wanted far less. I didn't want "a challenge" from a worthless nonentity incapable of growth who has only dragged the story down every time he has shown up. I don't want a pathetic nothing who literally undercuts every message of the story to be the ultimate champion of it. And I didn't want to reward that worthless scum with a fight.
I loved the detail of Thancred being able to last longer not being able to breathe thanks to his espionage skills and bringing back to that fight with Ranjit and not breathing.
And I love that out of all of the Scions, it was Urianger who called out to Thancred and gasped when Meteion said he was unmade. The one who wanted to join Thancred in his wanderings.
@@pluna3382 umm, I'm a little bit lost here. I thought the result of us being sundered is that we can be affected by Dynamis but also manipulate it. The Ancients who are unsundered can't be affected by Dynamis at all bcus of their high concentration of Aether. So I thought, at the end, it was a battle of determination, whether Scions' determination is strong enough to hold against Meteion's accumulation of despair or not
@@fahriza88
Yes, Venat decision to sunder Etherys is to minimized Aethers so its possible for post-sundering living being to resist and manipulate Dynamis (in mechanics, its Limit Break).
Why so? Such decision taken following awareness that when high-concentration Dynamis met high-concentration Aether, Aether will effectively overwhelmed by Dynamis with notes pure Dynamis being is susceptible to emotion; as explained by Hermes through various occassions.
That is why Meteia didn't have issue to wrecked Etherys pre-sundering. When its pure aether vs pure dynamis, she's absolute.
Its battle of will, yes, but to facilitate it Venat have to going through a lot just because most Ancients are so fixed on their utopia is impeccable.
I've not seen anyone bring this up, I'm glad other people are getting that detail, too! I REALLY loved it that they'd already established he can fight while holding his breath.
Look at how far potato-chan and Quazii journey has been, from trying the free trial to finishing endwalker. Like i once whispered you in game, watching all of you guys new player coming to the game (you, asmon, rich, and many more) It has revitalize my love of this game. Keep being awesome :)
Doesn't matter how many times I watch these scenes and listen to this music, I always cry, and I doubt I ever will stop. It has been such a long journey and I have loved all 8 years, I would never give it up for anything. Thank you Square, CBU3, and YoshiP, you have made memories for me for the rest of my life!
Man, I just finished it this morning. There are so many emotional moments at the end. I feel sorry for Emet-Selch and Shadowbringers got a whole different meaning for me. The part where you walk to the last dungeons and you hear all your friends who you lost along the way and friends who are still there with you. Everything clicked into place, never have I played a game so magnificent as this one.
Very interested to see where we go from here. Now I’ll take a little break and come back to level the Sage job.
This game is a masterpiece! And if ever I get into an argument about video games are a form of art, Final Fantasy 14 will be right there to be an example for it.
I know a few people didnt like zenos appearing and saying they felt it was forced but for me it kinda made sense. I really didnt care about him during stormblood and shb but I got to appreciate his character this expansion and I'm hoping he will be back in some form or another because I'm now intrigued what zenos' character really is under all that "i want fight right now u and me" I know thats what he really is based from what he was these past 2 expansions but maybe what alisae said something to him spark something else aside from being fightsexual. Either way this expansion really out of this world for me. 15/10 cant wait for new game plus
God i hope they surprise us and just put it in in the next week or two, I can’t wait any longer. Watching reactions is great but its not the same as playing yourself
Honestly, Zenos remind me of Jess And James of Team Rocket. He's was such an annoying char to me. Always showing up and in the way.
Zenos' character is that he's basically the antiparticle to the WoL. He is everything our PCs are: stupidly powerful, possessed of the ability to basically override reality through sheer force of will, and determined to a fault. But at the same time the opposite: the WoL fights for people, for causes, not just because they like fighting. Zenos has nothing that defines the WoL AS a WoL; no friends, no causes, no morality. And like an antiparticle, when he comes into contact with the WoL there's a massive release of energy. The writers even lampshade it at the end when Zenos calls you his "mirror".
Zenos showing up at the end completed his character arc. He demonstrated that he could actually think about what another person wants/needs (though it's still to get what he himself wants). Zenos is, up to that point, the kind of guy that just kills everyone who gets in his way. But Alisae's words struck a nerve, and he somehow realized that if he really wanted to fight the Warrior of Light, it wasn't a matter of becoming the biggest threat to the planet, but figuring out how to pique the WoL's interest in the fight. To that end, he realized that the WoL had a more pressing issue that prevented the fight he so desperately desired. So why not help end that fight to become the main antagonist in the WoL's view again?
Zenos' life, despite being a monster, was tragic in the sense that there was no one else he could connect to, and part of that was apparently he could never figure out how to put himself in another person's shoes. By the story's end, Zenos shows growth by managing to understand, if only a little, why another person fights.
It makes sense imo, what's exactly stopping Meteion from just leaving us in Ultima Thule? Answer, nothing and so she did. The only reason we even reached her to actually beat her was because Zeno's can fly. If not for him, she would have just moved her nest further away.
1:47:12 Clearly Zenos has more faith in you than anyone else in the universe.
"Forge ahead" has so many meanings. Not only have we lost everyone and must push on, but their sacrifices literally created the road ahead.
Also, Alisae's VA absolutely nailed it. This expansion and last.
I was worried they wouldn't be able to top ShB, but they did.
and it was so fitting that the quests in ultima thule, showing hope to despairing alien peoples, ultimately is what earned us the right to call our friends back. Because thats the hope that ended up permeating the place, its thanks to them we were able to create the elpis garden
we brought them the message of “forge ahead” and they repaid us in kind
Main tanked this. I fought the entire phase 2 of Endsinger through a stream of tears. I love this game.
1:47:00 Nobody would believe me but I've been waiting for Zenos to help for a long time. That's usually what happens to "frienemies" in anime who just want to fight the main character.
I was sure he would end up helping us after Fandaniel betrayed him. Afterwards each time he showed up I was thinking to myself "Zenos, let me deal with this first and then I'll fight you". So it felt so good when he showed up at the end to help before we fought.
@@roetheboat1 It felt good when a worthless nonentity of a character undermines your entire journey by just being given everything that you have to struggle for?
It feels good when someone isn't posting the same negative crap throughout a comment section.
@@JustinStrife Better when someone posts the same positive crap everywhere, right?
That little look that Venat gives the Warrior of Light in the credits sequence just when your name appears still makes me tear up, even 9 months on. What an incredible story
My journey was worth EVERY SECOND and I would not change a single thing.
i really liked what they did with the last zone,
it starts out with "pretty static" or "pretty distortion",then as the zone goes on and *what happens,happens*, the background music of the zone gets built up,bit by bit,
first you get the piano to go with the distortion,then the distortion mellows and starts to sound like actual music,and finally,you get a singing voice to the background track,
making the entire journey really memorable and more than just a "background track"
I think around level 84 I felt the overwhelming joy of realizing that not in a million years would anyone predict where this story was going to go. Elpis caught me off guard and left me smiling the whole day once I had to go to work. Ultima Thule meanwhile was so far beyond the pale that I wouldn't really believe it unless I saw it beforehand
tbh as soon as we fought the first trial *not gonna spoil* my expectation were shattered
You have to love how Yoshi-P and the FF14 team didn’t spoiled Endwalker and the endings compared to other games that makes players “beta/test” their content where everyone actually knows what happens before the official release! Well done FF14
When zenos asked me why it still lived I screamed out, “ I WAS GETTING TO THAT”
Rewatching the msq with you has been fantastic, this story came to me at a time I needed to hear it. Merry Christmas Quazii.
Man, the actual despair they made me feel through Ultima Thule is crazy. It just feels like such a hopeless struggle through it. I didn't realize what a downer everything was until Zenos showed up and was like, "Why haven't you killed that thing yet?" 😄Loved watching your reactions through it all!
Yeah. Builds up a huge journey that you work so hard to get through, and then ruins it all by having a worthless character just show up with needing no effort or struggle at all. Way to undermine the entire game.
@@Skyblade12 You're in the minority in that feeling thankfully.
my reaction was a smile and a heated "listen here you little shit"
I mean as heartened as I was by his confidence in me I was wishing I could just tell him to fight her himself and get back to me.
I made the revelation that the reason the Omnicron were waiting there is cause the 'extended operation unit' was unable to give the orders. The reason for that is cause we destroyed it.....Omega. It blew my mind during this segment. It's small details of this that really enhanced the story.
The music changing to be more prenounce after each sacrifice made the emotions that much more. The last area of Ultima Thule was so desolate so grim but every time after each Scion paved a new path the area became more hopeful.
Even tho I was 90% sure we'll get everyone back in Ultima Thule from the moment Estinien disappeared I was a sobbing mess all the way through, vision blurred, I pushed through, I couldn't describe the feeling if I tried.
Then the very last scenes at the top, when the Scions returned I burst out crying in tears of joy and I daresay it was the first time in my life I did so. I overcame many real life trials of my own but never did I feel so happy in my life before. I was physically shaking in Ultima Thule, watching this playthrough it was my 5th time seeing it all again and all of it still makes me cry. It's super powerful.
This is 100% an experience I will carry with myself for the rest of my life. I kept saying to myself "how is this fair" and I meant it as, how is it fair to any other game, let alone an MMO that this exists, how can you try to compare... All of it is just incredible and I don't think I could have asked for more (tho if I would, a pre-rendered cinematic scene somewhere at the end would be cool).
"not a single death." - Quazii 2 minutes after leaving Zenos body behind at the end of the universe.
Also welcome to the people who wish they could relive the msq and instead watch reactions of others experiencing it for the first time!
Not a single death that matters. I could have cared less about Zenos. If they had taken out his sequence entirely, the ending would have been better. As it was, it was pretty immersion breaking and forced.
And no, his character still wasn't good. I cared less about him at the end of EW than I did at the end of SB.
@@TheNonamelove my favorite interpretation is that he represents the player, not the WoL.
I don't think Zenos counts. He's practically immortal same as the ascians were. I very much doubt we've seen the last of him.
@@Spectacular_Insanity that's your opinion buddy
@@rogthepirate4593 He said he needed to "burn the candle of his life" for his big cool fight with us, the reason ascians just get to cheat death is they just leave the body behind instead of dying. If they burn all their aether like Emet (who threw his "dark" against the lightwardens light stored in you) and Zenos do when we fought them they can't just jump into a new body.
Quazii denies that he seeks harder and harder challenges just for the sake of it to Zenos while literally holding an ultimate weapon.
I honestly chose #1, but didn't feel it was directed at me personally. I felt that any "adventurer" in a world like that has to like testing themselves a little? And we just got through a fight with Hydaelyn that was testing us? I am not a fan of Zenos, but I don't hate him either (I'm ambivalent) so I didn't feel I could pick the options that implied we wanted to kill him. Wanting to kill people isn't in-line with our character either and we constantly try to get the baddies on our side! If there were an option like "Let's go talk about this at the ruins of your throne" I'd have chosen it.
@@melissas4874 As an adventurer, I seek a challenge, which is why I could not answer 1, because Zenos is not, has never been, and cannot be a challenge. A character who cannot struggle cannot grow, and a character who cannot grow can never be a challenge. He's been a worthless nonentity that has been a detriment to the story almost every time he's appeared. The game would be far better without him.
I loved the idea of Zenos before, being our mirror, literally what we look like to the Garleans and others against us for most of the game, and what we'd be if we didn't have the Scions to fight for, and it kind of pokes fun at other games where no one cares about the story and just fights to be stronger and kill for no reason lol. It's such a perfect victory lap to cap off the story, I was blown away by this ending. And I didn't know I needed my Lala SCH boy to falcon punch Zenos off his feet until I got it lol.
EW Zenos has some pretty meta commentary. Calling out Jullus "Would it have been fine if I had a good reason?" is basically just shoving it in the players face. And thats how it is in most MMOs. You go around butchering everything. And its fine, right? You're the hero, right?!
He does it again before the final duel, calling you out on being an 'adventurer' before being a 'hero.'
And then he does it again after the final duel. "Was it worth it?"
@@Krescentwolf It's a good point, he just reinforces the point they made in Garlemald where the survivors view us as a monster that appeared and massacred all their friends and family in Castrum and Praetorium without a second thought, we literally were like Zenos at the end of ShB, surrounded by faceless bodies. We're literally the same as him, Fandaniel and the Ascians. Just because we have a reason to do it, does it actually change what we did? Make it better? And if we're honest, since it is a game, we are really just doing it for entertainment. It's so good, I swear Zenos and Fandaniel got hate they didn't deserve because their symbolism was super meta.
@@mismismism No, we're not. Zenos is not like anyone else in the entire story. He in fact undercuts literally every theme of Endwalker. The entire point is that life and growth comes from struggle. Unless you're Zenos, where you never struggle and just get handed everything you ever wanted and that everyone else has to work so hard for. The entire world comes together to travel to the edge of the universe, and Zenos can't just pop in at the last moment because he's magic. Zenos brought the game down every time he showed up.
@@Skyblade12 Not true, Zenos fought just as much as we did, we wasn't just handed everything, the difference is that he only cared about power and felt no meaning from anything else. He mirrored us a lot, we were just given the echo, called to adventure, we're just powerful AF, if Zenos was considered handed everything then so are we. That's also what the body swap was meant to convey, we're the 2 most dangerous things in Eorzea but we fight for it and he fights for his own pleasure.
Just because Zenos doesn't resonate with you, it doesn't make him meaningless. For a lot of us, his inclusion at the captured the point of the expansion. We should always have hope, cherish the happiness and bonds we have now and not sacrifice it for power or pointless progress. The meta commentary aside, that's actually been a constant theme from the beginning from the Garleans, the Allagans, Omega, Eulmore, etc, he is our foil that we must defeat after defeating the embodiment of the existential dread of the universe and the harsh truth that the pursuit of perfection and progress will always eventually lead to doom if we lose sight of the temporary happiness we have day to day.
When you theory craft your way out of getting the feels but stil succumb to them.
Good reaction Quazi. I think that at the end of Ultima Thule we summoned Emet and Hytholodaeus because we didn't have the answer to the way forward and they were all we could think of. The two friends that our soul has known since before the sundering.
Man, I remember when Revenants Toll was a tent, a fence, an Aetheryte Crystal and 2 npcs. Watching it grow thru the ARR patches, the first time we met Rowena, the Domans arriving, the Domans going home...
Saying goodbye to the Rising Stones is a milestone for sure...
Endwalker was extraordinarily deep and beautiful... such an amazing undertaking.
Reliving this again with you really brought back just how beautiful it was.
Thank you.
I laughed so hard when Metieon says "Your determination defies all reason" and you said on stream, "Tell me about it."
Loved that.
Watching someone else play through Endwalker is a lot more satisfying after I've long finished it than I thought it'd be.... but it's always nice to share the experience of something so meaningful with others in the community...
It's such a testament to these characters and this writing, and this journey, that even though it never truly feels like the Scions are actually dead it still hits you the same way at the end. That last walk with only the twins was one of the hardest parts I've ever experienced in a game, knowing what was to come at the end of that path.
The only thing I would change is to allow the player the choice to outright refuse Zenos his fight. In the end I ended up choosing the second option simply because it was the only way I could at least say to his face that regardless of what I said, and what he thought about my character, he wouldn't understand but to leave him alive would only invite further meaningless harm on those who didn't deserve it.
Yeah. Zenos never earned anything in his entire life, and certainly he did not earn that final prize. He should have been left alone, the worthless nonentity that he was.
If and when you're looking for something to do, I recommend going around and talking to all the guild masters and job trainers, along with any other important NPCs that you can find. Most of them have new things to say.
if you can find them(can't find AST girl and wish we encounter the guy she was meant to be with in sharlayan). Also Lyna, not sure if you can find Ryne nor Gaia. Also don't forget the waitress, don't think she had anything new for EW but didn't know she had something for Eden.
The "Engage" scene is a Star Trek reference. It's been used in quite a few scenes when Cid's ships usually first set out.
Damn, you missed the other ghosts. There is even Haurchefant talking and others
I don't know why but this upset le lol
@@dmillk Same, those were such good moments/lines. Hence my comment xD
Yeah, that crushed me when he skipped the first set of ghosts.
1:29:45 The timing of this is so perfect. It was like the writers knew what the players are feeling at that exact point. They were like telling, “So you’ve finally reach the finale. Oh come on, don’t be sad. This is not the end. There are many possibilities and directions we can go for future expansions.”. What is brilliant about it is, it felt like Emet Selch is actually talking to the player without having the need to break the fourth wall. What Emet Selch said is what I needed to here at that point so I won’t look back and so I would finish Endwalker right away.
Then they go and ruin that ending by dragging Zenos back into it.
@@Skyblade12 I personally hate and like Zenos at the same time. I hate that he has the motives of a cartoonish villain and what I like about his character is that among all villains, he was the only one who imposes fear in every cutscene he shows up because he is the only one who shows the possiblity of you losing to him unlike everybody else whom obviously you’ll beat up when you fight them. In the end though, I think Zenos benefitted from being just a simple character because there is no need for him to have much screen time and when he shows up in the end, you know why he is there, there is no need for extended explanation. What I don’t like though is that they took away what I like about Zenos. The final fight, it is obvious that you would win.
@@baconbits3731 The first loss to Zenos only happened because the devs said "sorry, you lose". The fight itself was ridiculously easy. The second fight had the exact OPPOSITE problem to what you said: You knew, as soon as they brought it up, that there was zero possibility that you would win. It was the single worst moment in the entire MSQ, when the entire story is derailed just to make you fight the end boss halfway through the expansion.
@@Skyblade12 Then what would you have them do with Zenos? The ending wasn’t perfect but given how they developed Zenos character, there were limited choices. The only other alternative I could think of is letting Zenos walk away after the last trial and that is if you want to keep the Shinryu entrance. BTW no altering of pre Endwalker events.
@@baconbits3731 Step 1: Make the first fight actually hard. Their forced losses in Stormblood and Shadowbringers were actually trash. Literally they were cakewalk fights until the sudden "you lose" moment was reached. By contrast, the forced losses in EW were FINALLY done properly, and actually merely overwhelmed you until the moment came when something happened and you were saved.
Step 2: Drop the second fight entirely. It literally doesn't matter to the story anyway. Zenos comes to Doma, you divert from the story to attempt an assassination, he beats you, and he leaves. You can cut out that segment and lose nothing.
Step 3: Actually Step 1 chronologically. Set him up more and explain where his power comes from. During the pre-Stormblood patch quests or something, show him as the powerful Imperial prince, trapped in his role like a day job worker, crushing rebellions or something. Do some setup and work to explain his power and his victory.
Step 4: Allow us to walk away and leave him with nothing, and have him realize we will NEVER give him the fight he wants. Don't let him win by getting a battle from us. If players want to give him a battle? Sure, they can do so. But me? I'd let him rot. Giving him a fight is what he wants, the only way to make him lose is to not give him a fight. And as he already gets everything he wants whenever he wants it (even magically gets the power to teleport to the end of the universe when we have to work with the whole world to do it), I'd happily leave him wanting.
Best Christmas present ever, I’ve been waiting for your ending reaction forever!
Congratz on completing the story.
At the final fight with Zenos, me and many of my friends pick the first option and we never regret it. I did wonder what would be different in the other choices and seeing you pick it make me even gladder that I didn’t choose them. Not only did you not get to see “that” face of your character (recommended to check it out by yourself), your character actually starts the final grand battle with a sad face, now that makes me sad too.
Your character has 2 faces, the hero/warrior of light and what you started as, an adventurer. 95% what you do during MSQ is as the WoL, I can only remember exactly 1 moment where we started an adventure in StB with Alphinaud and 1 other guy (sr cant remember his name).
Then what else did we do as an adventurer? Everything else outside of the MSQ: from savage, ultimate, extreme to farming endlessly for mounts, glamours.
So I do feel kinda sad that people who only ever touch the MSQ or people who started recently and rushed through it without touching side contents. They won’t be able to relate to the last part. I have only 2 full reactions, Quazii and Bellular, kinda sad that both can’t relate to it.
'That' face on a male Miqo'te looks positively Evil, and I LOVED it! (and it basically mirrored Zeno's when he took over our body). 😁
10/10 would choose 'that' option again! 👍
"HA! Acceptance at last!" (I miss my Frienemy, and leaving him 'there' just feels somehow... wrong... 😔)
I'm so glad I picked the first response as well. I watched my friend do it and picked a different response, and was disappointed in the WoL's reaction as well.
"That" face being smiling as you're giving the most worthless character in the story a prize he did not earn? I wish I had the option to walk away and leave him to rot. I cannot deny that I wanted a challenge, but I wanted an ACTUAL challenge, not a pathetic nonentity who is incapable of growth and is thus just as pathetic as he was when we crushed him back in Stormblood.
@@Skyblade12 He went to the end of the universe and helped us deal with the Endsinger. You can believe that you can totally deal with Endsinger without needing Zenos but to me, the appearance of Zenos helps change the mood drastically, from the solemn, grave atmosphere, where we just sent our Scion friends back and we are alone now, to the hype atmosphere, we are now on a hunt. And that, for me and many others, earn him his desired fight.
While it was sometimes an unkind journey, it was beautiful. Always.
Most probably Alphinaud or WoL
A day before Endwalker's Early Access my Grandpa passed away and to experience a Story like this directly afterwards made it much more harder. Though I'd critique Endwalker's Pacing at the beginning I wouldn't want to change anything since as an Ending of the Ark I think this is it. It's how one should do it: An fulminant Finale of the First Story Ark of Final Fantasy XIV's Success Story..
and looking at what happened in Endwalker the Gates of Possible Stories are wide open now. Yet.. I'd like to be able the explore the entire Planet and also I'll call The Source Hydaelyn, since Hydaelyn is the Source of Etheris' Sundering.
Yeah I felt the beginning forcing you to split worked a bit better to Shadowbringers. When I went the Radz route first I was intrigued and it teased the dungeon, but I had to go back to Shar and grin and bear it until I could go back. that was the most painful part for me, it was just slow pacing.
@@Renagadezzzz I didn't wanted to go to Sharlayan in the first place xD when Fran at the end of the Bozja Storyline said that maybe we meet in Dalmasca I was like "Screw Sharlayan! I go to Dalmasca instead!" but the MSQ shoved me to Sharlayan.. so I took the first opportunity to leave it and gone to Thavnair First.. which turned out pacing-wise a bad idea because now I can see that it was meant for the Player to do Sharlayan first^^
Im so sorry for your loss 🙏♥️
@@katy9291 it will be okay, but thanks
Quazii: "oh no, I forgot to glamour my shield"
Me: "... That's the lvl 88 vendor shield... Quazii... did you forget to pick up the relic armor from Tartaru's shop?"
I love the hidden details! Notice she says "Dynamis?!" after he LB3 ( 1:53:23 ) referring to the fact that we had such a determination to perservere that we invoked dynamis and LB is actually us utilizing the power of dynamis.
Yes. And the reason Meteion is so stupidly strong is because she is constantly casting LB3 for auto attack. Or LB4 perhaps.
Yes, this was also suggested by the Matanga lady. Their people call it by another name (I forgot what it was), but that was the first hint of Dynamis before we even learn of it in the expansion. She talked about finding the strength to break your limits in your adventure.
@@MuraCasardis Akasha I think
Yes and no. Under usual circumstances, a LB is just that. But we do have a habit of surpassing our limits. Ultima Thule is a domain of pure Dynamis, thus our emotions and beliefs help shape the reality of it. So thanks to us and the Scions, we could survive the Endsinger and defeat her.
People seem to forget Dynamis is easily overpowered by aether if there’s more of it than Dynamis. Unless there’s a lot of it, can it overpower aether. So in theory, we will have minimal ability to influence Dynamis outside of Ultima Thule. But that little bit is enough for us.
@@MuraCasardis Akasa.
Zenos - Best Friend. Searching you to the end of the universe and have 100% faith in your ability when the Scion always doubting WoL ability every 3 seconds.
I despised him. Worthless, trash character who gets handed everything that everyone else works so hard for. Literally undercutting every theme of the story.
@@Skyblade12 This is starting to sound like a projection through all your replies. I would say let people enjoy their thing and find something else you enjoy. Unless you just enjoy bringing people misery then I guess it is what it is.
Some members of my FC skipped every bit of MSQ just to grind EX and Savage after that and to me that it the equivalent of throwing away the mozzarella part of the game and drinking the liquid it was in.
How can anyone throw away such a great story just to get to the mindless grind faster? I mean, I enjoy the fights now too, but man, this game is so much more than that.
so many details , some funny as hell (the Ragnarok pilot asleep in half the cutscenes because he's a narcoleptic bunny), some utterly poignant ("just once, stay with us to the end !"). but the best, strongest part of Endwalker will always be, to me, becoming Meteion's friend. the person she needs, the person she trusts. the one who can talk to her, share her feelings and thoughts, hold her hands in a field of flower, and comfort her when everything else is dark. it took us ages, aeons even, to find her again, but we did, and now it's gonna be ok :3
when zenos asks you if you fight for pleasure he's actually breaking the foruth wall and asks the player, if you enjoyed the adventure, fighting mighty foes. That's why "that, i can't deny" is the best answer. Look it up how zenos reacts to this answer :) zepla choose this answer
I would have answered that, had Zenos been a mighty foe. But he wasn't. We beat him back in Stormblood. And, since he is a character who cannot struggle, he is a character who cannot grow. Thus, he was just as weak and pathetic as when we beat him two expansions ago. He is the only character in the game who cannot challenge the WoL, and we should have been able to leave him behind like the worthless nothing that he is.
@@Skyblade12 Zenos beat us twice in Stormblood before the final fight. Name any other character in the story who actually beat us in a fight? You can't. It doesn't matter if Zenos hasn't struggled in the way you expect. He's not the main character. Not every character in an RPG needs to have character growth and struggle. You're naïve and ignorant as a gamer.
@@Skyblade12 I mean it's arguable that Zenos had character growth, it just wasn't what you wanted which is fine. The fact that he came to help as he realized that was the only way he'd get the fight he wanted signifies that he at least began to understand what the WoL fights for.
Personally I really liked Zenos and I think they made a point of saying (through Zenos himself) that his personality was a struggle on its own. He couldn't feel anything except through fighting and thus we were the only one he ever felt anything with so it makes sense that he was so desperate. I doubt he particularly enjoyed feeling nothing all the time either, otherwise why would he be so intent on finally fighting us again instead of just moving on.
When he asks if life was a gift or a burden I think he's speaking of himself. And while I can see why people might not like him compared to the other villains who had "reasons" for being evil and his was simply that he only felt emotion from combat. I don't know why some people seem to get IMMENSE hatred when he's brought up at all though.
I noticed you commented many, many,.. many times under other people's comments and you mention that he never had to work for anything. I'm pretty sure that was a major point of his character though. He never had to struggle, he was never challenged, and he HATED it. It's why he was so adamant about fighting us. The only person who ever presented a challenge and he had never felt that before. Dislike him as much as you want but I don't think it's fair to say the FF team didn't consider his traits/actions intently.
I do wish they decided to tackle the end to his arc differently though, maybe delved into his consciousness a bit more since it definitely seemed they were going the route of some kind of mental illness. I'd argue he may have even been clinically depressed idk. He just came off as a sad/tragic character and it would have been nice to have gotten a resolution to that.
@@marslara Part of it is that they implemented Zenos' fights really, REALLY badly. In Stormblood, neither of his fights are remotely challenging. You don't lose to Zenos. The WoL does, and it feels awful, because it breaks your connection and faith in the character as your avatar. Forced failures are really hard to do well, and the ones in Stormblood and Shadowbringers just felt awful right from the beginning. The connection between a player and their avatar is critical in any video game, and those fights really damaged that.
What's more, none of the rules of the setting seem to apply to Zenos. You get stronger by overcoming trials. You can't take on massive beasts at the beginning of the story, they'd crush you. You work at it, you get stronger. The other strong characters have all similarly worked and grown. Except Zenos. Similarly, you have to unite the world and work and grow to reach the end of the universe. Zenos just does it. It makes your entire journey feel worthless, because why even bother, when Zenos can do it all?
And why bother with that final fight? They've already brought Zenos back from the dead once before and deus ex machina'd him to the end of the universe. Why would I believe that a fight would mean anything, when nothing else with the character has meant nothing?
The rules don't apply to Zenos. He's a walking immersion break, and to have him as the culmination of the journey just soured the entire thing to me. And, yes, any time I think long about it I get salty and upset. The rest of the game was great, but it would honestly be improved if he was just purged from it entirely. There is only one scene in all three expansions with him in it that he brings anything positive, and that's the scene with Jullus in Garlemald. Everywhere else he could be either cut or replaced and nothing would be lost.
@@Skyblade12 Well I'm pretty sure you kill an ascian like super early on in the story so I don't know how fair it is to say the WoL wasn't really strong from the get go.. I don't think Zenos just became OP out of nowhere either. It was probably a combination of training as a prince and or just being a prodigy in the same way the WoL is, especially when it comes to mastering new jobs. And who knows, maybe emet-selch played a role in it being his grandfather and all...
And there are also many characters in which we never saw their growth period. It's understood that they got to that point somehow, Zenos was just the first human other than the WoL to reach a higher limit than everyone else. So I don't think him being strong makes our efforts ever feel worthless as Zenos himself has said that we have the same powers if we so choose (such as taking over primals) but the 'morality/lack of knowledge' of it keeps us from taking the "easier" routes in most cases. I wouldn't consider the routes Zenos took to reach that level as extremely easy though or as though they were given to him. Even just having the resonant took time and planning. A majority of Zenos' strength appears to be similar to a lot of shonen villains, strong because they were born into the right circumstances and with the ability to nourish their strength. Arguably the same as WoL..
And honestly, Zenos fights seem to be a by-product of instanced fights in general. They never want to make those too difficult so thats unfortunate. I don't even remember most instanced fights anyway so I don't care about them. I suppose they could have made them actually difficult but just long so even if you manage them, eventually the WoL gets exhausted or something idk. Or even give him optional extremes like his dad since I see extremes as canon since they're more difficult.
I definitely doubt they'd bring him back as he is though. We may see his soul or a reincarnation/reflection but I don't think we'll actually see him normally again which as I said before is sad to me. I'm not sure if more people would appreciate Zeros if they focused more on his psychology rather than attempting to just make him a main antagonist or not but I would have liked to see it. Imagine if they had treated him more like estinien, I'm curious.
I love all the littles details and bits of fan service. Seeing the primals and the throw back to 1.0's opening. The bit between Susano, Garuda and Bismarck: The 3 storm primals - Lightning, Wind and Water. How each sacrifice was reinforcing the ideology that Hydalyn worked so hard to teach us: where a little bit of hope, happiness and faith in others can push back even the greatest of despair and is the foundation that allows us to ever move forward. Hearing the voices from our past (also hilarious that you actually walked away from all the ones in the beginning!). Bringing in Hip and Emet, the field of flowers, The scion's reactions after saving us. The people we expect to cry crying over us, those reaction of the others who didn't. Alisaie finally breaking down into full "dere" mode. And then the end credits. How that moment lines up with the music. Took my breath away.
Quazii did you actually walk passed like most of the Voices of the Past? XD
I have to admit I teared up so many times. I love watching you go through it and seeing how often the tears were shared. What really hits me is how our friends are always there for us. No matter how far they have to go, they are there. They come. It really makes you feel loved by the cast.
38:20, actually its not just theoretically possible, its the most accepted hypothesis on how the universe gonna end up
yes but we dont know how the big bang was activated anyway, so their hypothesis doesnt account the beginning because in order for something to end it has to have a beginning but we dont know how it began and we dont know if it was even a beginning maybe it was the end of something else. So their theory and their despair doesnt make sense
@@eastbow6053 Ultimately the reason for their despair is that they will exist long enough to see this end and as far as they understand be completely powerless, unable to stop it from happening. Once the despair kicked in they lost the drive to find solutions.
Which is why Y'shtola once she understood it could deny it, because unlike them she would seek to find solutions to the problem. From their perspective the inability to stop it was the absolute truth, from her perspective they simply do not possess the knowledge to find a way to stop it but she would keep searching for the knowledge to figure out how to stop it where they had simply given up.
@@eastbow6053 Their despair was tied to their arrogance. They believed that they knew everything. They could not conceive of the idea that there may be things inexplicable to them.
Thru this entire final zone, knowing how close we were to the end of this journey, and I knew they gave us the out early on. I couldn't discount the idea that instead of killing one or two Scions, they would kill them all. Each goodbye was so final, so pure and left no loose threads. I wasn't completely convinced they would live until they did.
I sort of get that, but they really did explain it in a way that it left almost no doubt. With Hydaelyn empowering the Stone of Azem to make the unwhole, whole again and even (Ystola?) Explaining that although we have the stone, we cannot use it to bring them back too early as it would remove the bridges that bar the way forward. The only thing I wasn't 100% sure about was Thancred, since it seemed more like he was obliterated by Mideon.
I've enjoyed your reaction to Endwalker so much. What a journey so far. I'm glad we were here together.
I cried when i first finished the MSQ even now when i watch the reactions i can't stop tearing up.
My adventure started back in 2011 with my Failing Q8400 and HD4660. That overheated alot because of its potato coding. Up to Realm Reborn when i saw My server closed. i breath a sigh of relief because i really liked the game but hated the execution then 2013 with ARR released up to 2015's HW and 2017's STB and 2019 SHB to 2021 EW. This game never fails to amaze me. And along with the flow of time i met alot of people some became friends other became passer and others became memories. Alot of good times and bad times in between but one thing is constant throughout the years FFXIV never failed me. When i needed an escape FFXIV was there for me. Thanks Yoshi-P and Squeenix. for everything and thank you Quazii for the great reaction.
Im so glad that you thought the same thing about the finally fight with Zenos. I was watching the weakened punches going back and forth and the talking while just laying there was totally just like Naruto.
It made me think of the end of Metal Gear Solid 4 more than anything.
I Lost it on the part when Graha sacrificed himself and alisiae lost it on him 😭😭😭
The two songs from Shadowbringers playing back to back didn't help T^T
The Choices you make at the end, have it own definition of how you see Zenos as a whole. Our Journey, we all have our own; meaningful and valuable, as a whole. But if you pay close attention or maybe not but he mentioned to us 2 Words; You....not as WoL but "You". and he knows you well.....as "Adventurer" When you first step in Etheirys. Adventurer who wandering all over the Etheirys, to solve, give, take, fight, etc. Win or lose, pain or joy, smile or cry. Still, don’t forget that who we are as our first identity, Adventurer.
The opening cutscene in ARR, the merchant asks us what we seek. Power was one of the dialogue choices we could make.
the mass summoning was one of my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE SCENES in this game. It was so epic!
During the Lead Up to fighting Emet in Shadowbringers, that whole cutscene gave me chills. Graha popping off the chant for the spell and the music kicking in with the WoL looking passed the beams to Emet "I Challenge you Emet-Selch" oooh man, goose bumps
Go watch the FFXIV 1.0 trailer. The mass summoning pulls directly from the WoL's vision of the future.
My favorite part about that whole sequence with the remote control is that after so many years of the Scions of the seventh Dawn doing things Reckless and self-destructive to save the warrior of light, staying behind to help him Escape, getting in the way of attacks that he could have easily blocked, people dying in his name to "preserve the light of Hope," worrying his ass sick, ever since 2.55 and the banquet it's been one thing after another and he hasn't been allowed to be the guy that stays behind and fights and be the hero, it's finally his turn. He gets to save THEM. When he awakens on the ship it is quite plain that they now feel his pain and hopefully they finally realize that after all these years they've been worried about his safety but they never gave any thought to how much they were worrying him.
For real gamers, there's only one real answer: "That, I can't deny"
Yeah, that question was so meta^^
The Devs didnt make him ask that question to our Character, he asked us. We s the players, who always seek the next challenge. Who always thirst for the next adventure...
That... we can't deny!
@@Raoul9753 We can't deny it, because he didn't let us. I'd have GLADLY abandoned that worthless character instead of granting him the ultimate reward that he did nothing to earn.
@@Skyblade12 So... I guess you never did any Ultimate TRial for the Challenge or reward?
Never did Palace of the Dead solo to see how far you can go?
You only ever played MSQ to be heroic and then stoped?
@@Raoul9753 This is my first time playing at a point where a challenge is relevant. Even then, no, I haven't done any just for the challenge. I did Bozja for the experience and completing the relic, not for the challenge. I enjoyed the challenge of DR, but that wasn't my motivation.
More importantly, however, is that Zenos is the only character in the game who cannot challenge the WoL. Zenos does not struggle, which means he does not grow. He's the same worthless nobody that we destroyed back in Stormblood. He gets given power unearned. He gets given the trip to the end of the universe that the entire rest of the world works so hard for. And he gets given a fight the he doesn't deserve. He certainly doesn't deserve to be the one to exhaust my character. I wanted an actual CHALLENGE. Not a rematch against a worthless nonentity who I crushed without care two expansions ago. A red chocobo would have been a better final challenge than Zenos. Give me a character who can actual be a challenge. Pit me against a rematch against Emet-Selch with his full memories back, or Venat, as a teacher handing a torch off to the student, or any actual character who can challenge me, instead of Zenos, who is barely a character at all.
@@Skyblade12 You already killed Hydaelyn (Whatever that was about, random "ok, I die now because story demands it!") and Emmet has really no reason to fight you again.
Zenos was the last loose thread at that point.
Though is was kinda sad that we didnt get the option to get him the psychological help he needed, since Zenos was clearly suffering from psychological issues coming from his inability to relate to anyone but the WoL, who doesnt give him the attention he craves back... If you stop and think about if any steps more than "oh, hes a douche!" he becomes a pretty tragic character...
Not sure which Illness he has, I dont think its clinical depression, and I am no psychologist, but I think the Character of Zenos would make an Interesting subject.
2:08:01 Wrong answer man, wrong answer! XD
The correct one was 'That, I can't deny.'
You lost the best delivery of a line in the entire game.
'FINALLY ACCEPTANCE!' \o/
I can't deny that I want a challenge, but I can deny that Zenos can provide one, or that Zenos has earned a fight with me. Give me ANY other character and that role, and they may actually be a challenge. Zenos is literally the ONLY character in the story who cannot challenge the WoL.
@@Skyblade12 And yet he's the only one who's ever beaten the Warrior of Light. Multiple times. You're simply pathetic Skyblade. And you wouldn't be a challenge to him either.
at this point i just wish i can erase my memory of this game. so i can play it once more, and to relive it once more....
I had to step away for a few minutes after Raha leaves and the full song kicks in… wife consoled me as the onions were cut and diced. Even now, watching your recap.
I remember that if you beat Omega raid(SB's raid),you will get a choice when G'Raha is talking about where that place is. And you will get a G'Raha's cute part if you chose answer 3.
Are you talking about the option where you can say that you still have the lightning device you used in Omega? That does have a great response
After Estinien, I thought, "No chance they are dead." But then as we got down to G'raha and the Twins I thought, "Oh no, this is enough for a Trust regardless of the class you are playing..." And that weirdly sold me on the fact that they might go through with it again. Then after G'raha, I was again convinced, "No chance." Weirdly it was mechanical considerations that sold me on the story.
All the shades during the final walk are voices from the past, you missed a few before you climbed the stairs. You can redo it in New Game+ next time for the full experience.
Hope you had a good rest after the game, not sleeping for more than 24 hour must be tiring. Please take good care of yourself!
Endwalker is not yet available in NG+. It'll be later in the expansion, probably 6.3, when we can do NG+ for Endwalker's first "half".
@@BlazeIgnitus I suspect it might be 6.1 since 6.1 onwards tells a different story
Missed a few? He missed almost all of them.
What a journey, this game will stay with me forever, I have to go refill my water supply from the tears. Onward to the next journey Quazii !!!! I have never play a game that impacted me this much emotionally
The final scene with zenos, is in a place where emotion is reality. i think, that while his life was spent, he wanted us to live, for both of us, enjoy the happiness he never had.
I just loved how during the fight you both just drink in the Dynamis with all you have, allowing you to continue on and push the boundry more.
@@Renagadezzzz The fight shouldn't have even happened. We should have been able to walk away and abandon that worthless character who should have been dropped from the story a long time ago.
@@Skyblade12 No matter how many comments you post here, you'll never be able to erase this aspect of the game which was created by Yoshi-P and his design team. They clearly don't believe as you do. Thankfully.
@@Skyblade12 you are just so mad and I'm sorry you feel the need to go into every comment to shit on other people's joy.
@@princessjello And I'm sorry you feel the need to bring me back to this. Because being reminded of how shit the ending to the game was is absolutely what I wanted. Nevermind that I had forgotten that worthless character and moved on, you just had to go and remind me of how literally everything in the story was tossed aside for a worthless battle against a character that meant nothing to me. Thanks for that.
1:13:43
LOL, at the endwalking you dodged most of the voices from the past ?! well, that happens for some player with lack of sleep, I think...
anyway, voices from the past, when you walk through them will trigger an emotional speech of several characters we met throughout the game. there are actually 14 of them (of 15 voices) which is perfectly fit the number 14. here it goes by order:
1. Ardbert
2. Haurchefant
3. Merlwyb
4. Aymeric
5. Nanamo
6. Raubahn
7. Kan-E Senna
8. Hien
9. Papalymo
10. Edmont de Fortemp
11. Begg Lugg
12. Ryne
13. Midgardsommr
14. Minfilia
15. Ardbert (once again)
Nothing to worry tho, I'm quite certain that at some point of time they will add this part into new game+ for sure.
Actually the first voice can be Arenvald not necessary Ardbert due to both share the same VA
@@kratosgow342 I'm playing with JP voice and there were different VA for Ardbert and Arenvald so I'm quite confident that 1st and 15th are Ardbert tho
After Thancred disappeared. I was like saying to myself: "So we will end up with just me." At that moment, I never expected that I will be right. And then I am wrong. Ishikawa gave the end that we really wanted, after destroying our souls.
for me I knew they weren't going to die though it didn't stop me from bawling when it was g'raha's turn even though I still know they weren't gone.
I was worried that the power of azem was actually as ephemeral as any other time.
Thancred is the last one to be up during the suffocation part for good reason, he's the only scion that has been swimming all the way through the salt lake and up into the ala mhigan keep if I recall, he's known for being able to hold his breath underwater for a long time, without the blessing of the Kojin.
Edit: OH NO HE AVOIDED THE GHOSTS
QUAZIL, you have to go redo the "You're not alone quest! You're supposed to walk next to the black ghosts! Im freaking out over here that you missed 8 of them!
To me, Zenos is the WOL without meaning. Without a connection to others. All that matters is how strong they are. It takes time to digest everything EW throws at us. Great writing.
yeah WoL has people, Zenos had no one. I guess there Asahi but ug.
zenos is all the people who buy skips. op as fuck for no reason with no other motiation than to be stronger and kill bigger things. he's a mirror to the player and not the character, especially when he says "hear mme, not as a heo but as simply, you."
another hint is he also literally smashed the fourth wall as shinryu, think they meant for that little connection to be made
@@avenoktys3253 Yeah. Amazing that they undercut literally every message of the story to give a cautionary tale to the audience that won't even see it.
I'd also like to point out the genius of the launch trailer where they deliberately put Alphinaud a death flag causing us the first moment of despair. Little did we know, that was the point of the entire expansion; despair and to find strive for little happiness we can find. Bravo!
What makes this prayer so much more powerful than the prayer they did for master louisoix is that they are surrounded by dynamis. Yes, we cant control dynamis, but what better way for a mere human to control dynamis other than sincere prayer and hope?
At this point, scions have as much power as meteion has. Meteion doesnt have exclusivity on dynamis. If she can, then so can we. Once the scion have the heart of it, meteion is toast. Her final enrage phase doesnt even remotely hurt.
Fun thing, the scene of the primals coming from the light orb is the same vision the WoL had in the 1.0 trailer after Midgard blew up the Garlean ship in the Lake of Tears.
oh true!
Merry Christmas Quazii hope you're having a great holiday!
I'm surprised Quazii! You said you cant relate to any thing Zenos said because you enjoy raiding and technical mechanics in all sorts of fight. The way I took it was that he was talking to you the character and you the player, controller of all actions the character does. He wasnt talking to the hero of eorzea but to you.
To me I was being called out for being a degenerate raider, S rank hunter, and fate camper lol. There was no higher calling to doing it like saving the land or anything like that though we can say logically thats what we want its more that will come while I'm doing this thing that will get me loot. Pleasure and Suffering from the grind itself!
Cannot believe I just watched 3h TH-cam. xD Tanks for Sharing, I enjoyed it and even got some Details I missed when I played through it. :)
You didn't just ignore those ghosts did you.......
Riding shinryu during this fight was pretty damn epic and that boss fight was badass!
What a fantastic journey you shared with us, Quazii. Especially those of us who remembered to glamour our shields.
Seeing Quazii walk around half the spirits on the walk gave me a headache, but I'm glad you enjoyed it anyway ^^
The true companions of your past life letting you save the true companions of your present life. There's a beauty to that.
Primals manifesting into Ragnarok is a reference to 1.0 trailer. BTW. Ea's revelation of universe ending in is a real world theory. Entropy. It's a real thing. Meteion "I want to HEAR your words, share you THOUGHTS, know your FEELINGS." Hear, Feel, Think originates from her.
It's more than a theory, the heat death of universe so far is one of two hypotheses that actually scientifically explain the known phenomena within quantum mechanics.
Ladies and gentlemen, raise a toast to Quazii Modo and Melon-kun. We've watched them walk a long and winding road, from humble beginnings to the far ends of creation and home once more. As a veteran who's been around since 2.0, watching your journey from its first steps to its final embers has been an absolute treat, and I think I speak for all of us when I say it's been a joy to have you walking the Traveler's path with us. See you in the next adventure, my friend!
Our journey will never end!
You can see the change of reaction from Meteions as you travel through Ultima Thule, the first encounter was extremely hostile and inhuman, and the last one before the Dead Ends was greatly different, she seems a lot of humanlike, having some anger and disbelief on your stubbornness but at the same time showing her way of "caring." I especially like the moment when Hermes' word crossed with WoL's face.
I love how we fight the Endsinger, basically a god of despair and we're totally fine after that, but then we fight Zenos and he nearly kills us.
I mean we summoned 7 people for Endsinger, Also Zenos was empowered by Shinryu - I'd imagine he still retains its potency, not to mention you are both feeding off untapped Dynamis all around you.
@@Renagadezzzz plus he ate the rest of hydaelyns crystal, he got tons of aether in a world of dynamis he was super fucking strong
@@Renagadezzzz I mean, yeah, we fight an actual challenge, and then we fight a worthless nonentity who is given everything he wants and never has to struggle for anything. And, never struggling, is incapable of growing. Which means that he's just as weak as he was back in Stormblood. We should have been allowed to walk away from that worthless nobody.