I've seen almost every theory video out there, and I have to be extremely honest when I say this is top tier. This is so well done and for the first time has me thinking to myself "oh wow, i never even th9ught of THAT", on so many of these points! Great job and I look forward to more videos from you!
41:40 the “run cloud, run away, you have to leave, you have to live” is Sephiroth directly quoting (as a taunt) Claudia’s final words (as I suspected when playing remake) and as confirmed when you hear her actually say them in the nibelheim flashback at the start of Rebirth.
2:29:46 I am officially subscribed to the theory that Sephiroth has been grooming Cloud to strike fast at the very sight of Sephiroth in order to stop Aeriths death at the temple of the ancients.
Going through this video is such good brain food omg. Like the Sephiroth's intentions for Cloud part: if we're to assume that the characters have a collective unconsciousness spanning from events yet to happen, Cloud's whole "I cherish everything" persona is effectively being eroded. This in turn works really well with the whole Cloud is a puppet moniker from the OG.
This theory is really cool. It's definitely something i never thought about before. Looking forward to seeing any other FF videos you make in the future.
This is probably the first theory that has come out that gives me the feeling of "Oh wow, I actually feel kinda upset because this is so well supported and makes so many of the 'question marks' in other theories make sense that it is actually VERY likely to be the truth." Well done. The Blue and Red -> Purple symbolism with the Materia, Aerith's continued focus on manipulating like sephiroth and multiple time stated focus on changing things (killing him finally) and ties to the Gi and new stuff. All of it just fits, to the degree that I feel 'primed' for it heading into part 3. Now I really want to know what Sleepezi's thoughts on this would be.
Yeah once I saw what I thought really happened with the BM, it took me a while to figure out what the hell was actually going on and how to make sense of it all. When you look at it from the perspective that "bad writing" and quirky events may not actually be simply bad writing and quirkiness, it actually fits together pretty well. P3 is going to be ridiculously sick. Let Sleepezi know :). I haven't spoken with any of the mainstream creators yet.
Hey man I just wanted to say your theory is quite different to many others I’ve seen but also much more satisfying. Hopefully you get a chance to discuss this with other ff7 creators
Thanks! I reached out to a few but not Max or Schrodinger or Sleepezi or any of the biggest ones. I was waiting for Sleepezi to come out with his own video. My theory will probably clash with most others'. Didn't want to influence him before he finished his thoughts. I haven't heard any response. If people want to refer it to others, go ahead. I'm just waiting. These videos only started to get some traction about a week ago.
I am totally clear that Aerith and Sephirtoh are directly manipulating cloud to fulfill their true reason for reality, each one has the justification for taking those actions, (and also lying to themselves) about the will of Gaia, it is an honor to know your video, and congratulations for your great thread of theories with a great base of support. 🌎☁️
Bro this video is EXACTLY for what I was searching. THANK YOU! I cannot imagine the time it took to make a 3:51:07 video that’s this detailed The first fortune is also literally what Cait does to the group 😂 I also like the notion that cloud is basically still a kid doing all of this 😂 Yuffie is 16
Hey man wanted to say congratualations on this epic! To be honest im not sure how i feel about Aerith being a manipulator as such, it's clear to see from remake and rebirth she withholds information, but i feel she does so out of necessity. Maybe she feels oversharing would lead to a "bad end", this all cycles around to the discovery of Jenova and what Shinra decided to do with her. Jenova and Sephi are the arch enemy to the cetra so i think a lot of what Aerith does is out of fear of something not happening. I love how you have put all this together and a lot of the logic is sound, i just think the whole situation is far more complex because of Jenova's influence and everything that came after her discovery. On top of this we have 'fate' or opposing fates fighting against each other to either make OG happen or to stop it from happening. Its a massive oversimplification, but i really do feel like the emphasis on perspective is so important in the retrilogy. We see almost everything from Cloud's perspective and he is unreliable at the best of times, he is severely unwell throughout remake and rebirth. By the end of Rebirth he is so unravelled that i think he needs to see her alive, he needs to believe he is capable of saving her. As much as i want Aerith to live i dont see it going any other way than OG because her death is too important, even Aerith knows that. I loved Rebirth so much, my one gripe with it though is after her "death". Cloud's inability to see the reality of what happened took away from the rest the group, I feel we needed more time to see the rest of the party morn for her but because the focus was so mcuh on Cloud a lot of that was missing. We get so many moments throughout rebirth to take a pauses and reflect, to me the ending went by too quickly. Anyway i went off on a bit of tangent there 😂. Regardless of an individuals theories, your video was really well presented, thought provoking and well evidenced. So again excellent work man! Thank you for putting this out there! Looking forward to part 3 so much!
Thanks! Wouldn't it be interesting if there is a new conflict between Cloud and the rest of the party because of how nonchalant he is acting after her death. If he tries explaining to them what he saw, especially if they eventually see him pull the BM out of his sword, it could create a huge rift and Cloud's "mental problems" will take a hugely different twist.
@VicM88 Yeah I think things are going to get a whole lot worse for Cloud, it could definitely go that way. I think the party see how fractured he is though and we know that Tifa is okay with allowing Cloud to think certain way if it's to protect him. Also I think retrilogy shows how well bonded the party are by the end of rebirth too, I think everyone approaches Cloud's instability tenderly out of care. Even Barret, who only saw Cloud as a tool to take on Shinra, has developed a strong friendship with Cloud so I think they would continue to deal with his spiral in a similar way. Even if it's to his detriment, like should they really be letting him make leadership decisions while he talking to Ghost Aerith? 🤣 Sending him in alone at the temple seemed like a mistake to me, especially from Tifa's perspective because she saw Cloud handing the Black Materia to Sephi.
one million kudos for this omg.. i came from the summary and i’m starting to watch this and wow!! i read from your other comments that u haven’t played the remakes, but the level of detail you go into is so amazing! i have 99h on rebirth and i feel like i played with my eyes closed and ears plugged😭😭 i’m very excited to watch this video to its full length, though! aerith’s character in rebirth is so interesting and i’m so ready for it to be expanded on it P3. also can’t wait to see the direction the writers will take for sephiroth and cloud-though cloud especially.. the way they drive home cloud as a puppet or easily manipulated etc is probably my favorite part even if i love him it’s too interesting!! i don’t understand how so many people say the remakes were ruined by ‘bad writing’ if anything it’s just a poor outlook on media from the players who say that. it’s important to look deeper into a story’s meaning and characters before making such a definitive statement of something. either look further, or don’t look at all, really! many many props to you for this interesting theory and analyzation of the art, settings, characters, and smaller details!!!!
Thanks! Yeah I think this is being written very meticulously, like Breaking Bad was. I saw an interview where BB actors were asked if they ever went off script and did something spontaneous for any of the scenes. They were all bemused, because none of them did, because it was such a carefully crafted story. This Re-trilogy looks the same. Once you assume that nothing is bad writing and that at least almost all of it is very intentional, it actually makes a lot of sense to me. I did play Remake, btw, just not Rebirth yet.
Hey, it’s the guy who made the video talking about Aerith’s death in Rebirth like half a year ago if you remember that video at all. I remember seeing your comment saying you were working on what I now believe to be this video and WOW you weren’t kidding. Congrats on getting this video done!
Hahaha! Yeah I remember making that comment. I really liked that video. I don't know if I was able to explain everything, but I think I was getting at the idea that the reason Cloud was able to save Aerith was because he became able to feel strong enough about losing her to cry about it. And yeah, it took a hell of a long time to make this. Thanks!
I just finished the entire thing and i gotta say this is such a brilliant analysis !! Props to you for not pulling out the “bad writing” card because it really is the enemy of enjoying media and it pulls you out of the game experience , leading you to think about the logistics of greedily marketing three+ games into a nostalgia baiting narrative…ect As true as it all may be, it’s not fun at the end of the day. I ESPECIALLY enjoyed your fresh perspective on Aerith. If the implications of your theory lead up to more concrete evidence in the upcoming game showcasing her powers and motivations, then we’re probably up for one of the most complex female characters in video game imo. The whole cognitive dissonance which makes up Aerith’s character regarding whats wrong and right fits so nicely with her mystical and religious imagery. It /she thematically clashes with the sci fi and often straight up realistic elements of the game. She’s an idealist believer and is in desperate need of a devil (sephiroth) even if tho it clouds her judgement. I personally dont think her morally grey behaviour in rebirth comes from an insincere apathy on omni-aerith’s part. Knowing her character i think she’s still emotionally processing her rage towards sephiroth, her odd unclear yearning for cloud and genuine fear of what lies ahead the steel sky. A lot of remake felt riddled with the strongest sense of grief which draped her with a remarkable (maybe accidental on the writer’s part) quality that made up for such a crazy subversion. A manic pixie transcending her reductive role of mere character development tool into becoming a lucid witty player at a chessboard Cloud is a pawn in. Accidental feminist huuuge W !!
Yeah I could tell the writers knew what they were doing. Once you look at it from a perspective that it is at least almost all intentional and not bad writing, I think it can make a lot of sense. I'm glad you like Aerith's portrayal. I think it's really cool making Cloud her puppet.
2:02:56 my mind was fucking blown u are a goat 🐐 so glad I made up my mind to watch a 3hour long ff7rb theory video literally had go get up out my bed for this one
Hey to add a little to your theory, at the last fight Sephiroth sends Cloud back to the edge of creation and then Aerith arrive clouding everything as you say, if Aerith is manipulating cloud throw the empty materia as you say, that will explain how Aerith manage to enter the edge of creation maybe part of her plan was to make Sephiroth get out of there so he stop showing thinks to Cloud, by giving the empty materia to Cloud she locates and find the place where the end of creation is that's maybe why Sephiroth underestimate her
I think Sephiroth put Black Materia in Cloud's pocket. He even said to Cloud "I give you, my blessing." Also Zack wasn't saved by Black Whispers. He was saved by Grey Whispers. If you compare Remake's Whispers' 3D model with Rebirth's, you can clearly see they're different. Black Whispers have purple glowing orbs under their hood. So the Sephiroth controlled Whispers in Remake were purple ones. They were the ones who were gathering grey ones and forcing them under their influence. In Rebirth, they're completely turned & under Sephiroth's whim, represented by their black color and purple orb. Biggs was also saved by Grey Whispers. Not White Whispers. Grey Whispers basically represent struggle between Aerith/White and Sephiroth/Black. Thus they're Grey.
I think Remake Whispers are the Planets influence with JENOVA as JENOVA themselves. The Purple is the Arbiter of Fate colors, One of the Final Bosses of Remake . Sephiroth doesn't have Control of Whispers of the Black until the Singularity at the End of Remake when they Split. The Grey Whispers are actually The Regular Lifestream and the Negative Lifestream as One Fate, I think The Grey Whispers wouldn't save Zack normally because that isn't the Original Path, the one where JENOVA ultimately wins, but also the one where the Planet lasts the longest. The Grey Whispers decide to save Zack as they pass away because he creates Worlds for the Reunion. They are dy!ng. Basically, their Providence as a Fate Director breaks down. And therefore, they need a Reunion to fix it. We are told in a development interview; the Grey Whispers are gone after Remake.
Also, the Grey Whispers scream and freak out when Sephiroth does anything to change anything in Remake. It is specifically called out that the Whispers are hurt by what he does, repeated in Rebirth. And They didn't want Aerith or Sephiroth to remember things that haven't happened yet. But they couldn't really affect Sephiroth.
No. Black and gray whispers actually intermixed in Remake, but none of them were under Sephiroth's "control." In the scene where Jesse is injured, they are a few clips where they appear side by side and are distinctly different, but both trying to accomplish the same thing. The whispers in Rebirth aren't really under his control either. They are spirits within the lifestream who decided to join Sephiroth. In Lifestream Black and White, Aerith watched Sephiroth's future dead spirit and noticed he was gathering a following, which she also did. Also, when Seph slices a gash in the Weapon with Tifa inside, both black and white whispers stream out of it, BUT, when it switches to Sephiroth and his whisper cyclone's perspective, the whispers CHANGE COLOR to all White. It shows that the color of the whispers is relative. And no, "I give you my blessing" is not Sephiroth putting the BM in Cloud's pocket. In the original, Cloud and the rest find a robed man and defeat Jenova and get the BM back anyways. There's no reason for Sephiroth to smuggle it in his pocket, especially if the events of p3 follow the original like in p1 and p2. Plus, when Sephiroth gets close to Cloud in the in-between world saying "perhaps you need a little push," he is on the LEFT side of Cloud, but Cloud finds the BM in his RIGHT pocket.
I've been thinking alot about this and wanted to add: Aerith isn't being hypocritical at all. On the beach she and at the nibelheim water tower she makes it out how bad she feels about the negative thoughts she's having. Which means she isn't saying any of this from a place of nievety, she wrestlers with these thoughts of anger, regret, and sadness too. But just because you're aware of them and know what you're supposed to do, doesn't make it easy to do. Changing is difficult and takes active work which is what she's clearly trying to do for herself even if she hasn't fully succeeded. But it's clearly not in her overall nature and beliefs to hate people. It's also not being intolerant to fear and be upset with someone who is currently causing mass malicious acts beyond the scope of the universe lol. Whether she's forgiven Sephiroth or not isn't what's being said. She may feel pity for him, she even asks him in the final fight of Rebirth if this is truly what he wants and tries to wrap her head around why he wants this and he refuses to answer his question. That doesn't sound like being intolerant. Also "everyone lies" 1. Theres no such thing as forvever We dont know exactly what that means but we do know that when she says that Aerith isnt fully herself. She speaks in two voices and a green aura is around her. Its likley her future self talking. You cant say shes lying when her past self is talking about her current beliefs about time. And honestly, the past is more or less forever. The past events only seem to be able to be changed to the extent Sephiroth can control Cloud which is only a few weeks before the games story begins. The stuff thats happened in their lives prior? Unchanged. Remake seems to have new events happen to the characters but the core events are the same. So this can't be a lie. 2. Tifa & Aeriths girltalk and post girltalk Tifa is dealing with someone with a clearly delicate psyche. She knows something is wrong and doesnt know what it is. If youve ever been around someone in such a delicate sitiation, you DO need to be careful of what you say and do around them. All Aerith did was try to check up on Cloud necause she knows he and Tifa are in a bad place. Thats omission, sure but its being done in empathy and the fact that Tifa told Aerith this stuff in confidence. Lumping this into "everyone sucks" because theyre looking out for a mentally ill friend is kind of.... nuts.
It may be that Aerith is struggling with her own beliefs, but it seems like her clear decision to defy destiny and the Arbiter of Fate in order to remove Sephiroth for good, makes it look like she is not just struggling, but has a clear plan to make the world the way she thinks it's "supposed to be." 1. I'm not saying Aerith is lying there, I'm just saying she's being inconsistent. She seems to have a pattern of just saying whatever she feels is advantageous to her at the moment. Another example is the first time Cloud meets Aerith. She says, "No one is going to attack you. I promise." And almost immediately after, Cloud gets attacked by 5 Shinra militia. She has an inclination to portray a peaceful positive world where you don't have to worry, but the reality is different. 2. This is a big part of the crux of it. Cloud is not really "mentally ill." He has a space alien in his body that is feeding him fake memories, which he does have an inclination to want to believe. And no, Tifa and Aerith lying to Cloud does not seem to be because they are looking out for him. Why would Tifa lie to Cloud about telling Aerith he remembered Zack? That would have been the perfect opportunity to press him further on it. He clearly knew by then that his memory was screwed up, he admitted it to Tifa after Gongaga. It's not like he would have been resistant to questioning his mentality further. He himself was amazed he could just forget his friend Zack like he never existed. When Aerith is confused when Tifa tells her, it's a really strong indication Aerith is holding Tifa back from talking with Cloud more about it. Why? I think because it's part of Aerith's plan to use Cloud as her own puppet. By the end of Rebirth, Cloud has clearly gotten more resistant to Sephiroth/Jenova's control, shown when the Whispers had to physically force his sword up in preparation to strike Aerith, because he was not being mind-controlled like originally.
@@VicM88I think part of the reason is that even tho cloud remembers Zack, cloud still thinks he's a soldier 1st class, and crisis core was remade to make this a point of contention in the timeline. For some reason, sephiroth I'm assuming still needs cloud to feel powerful and not just random Joe
I came here after your short form summary. Even though i beat remake for a second time as a refresher before rebirth, i still missed a lot of these connections. Bravo
This makes a hell of a lot of sense,and honestly I figured a case of the classic switcheroo happened with aerith or some genjustu level stuff to confuse everyone seph dawg included
Hey first of all, congratulations for finishing this monster of a video. I really like how you edited it. I have been musing something. Keeping in mind that some of the themes of FFVII OG was accepting the finality of death and the reality of the self, I found interesting that in your Aerith's strategy segment you talked about how she is self deluding herself. I have the feeling that she is mirroring what Sephiroth went through during the events of OG + Advent Children. Sephiroth became disillusioned with all he discovered and "chose" to se the reality of himself and, if we assume that Re-trilogy Sephiroth is the same Sephiroth that went through all the events of the OG + AC story, now he is using this knowledge to effect change. Aerith instead is trying to prevent the change from happening but I think she is not emotionally ready to let go like she did in the OG. If this new chain of events it's indeed being brought for by Septhiroth trying to change his fate, it might mean that she is reacting. She never chose to do this and when she sees Cloud again with all her memories of the future she is very conflicted. The flower talking scene is an example of that. She hints at a choice step she will have to take but she clearly doesn't want to. I think re-living the events is eroding her resolve to let go, to accept her role. In the OG she dies and she becomes a spiritual being, above mortal concerns and feelings, she does guide Cloud and Tifa in the lifestream, she appears to Cloud in AC but her role is to be a guide, she has let go of her mortal emotions. It's not clear to me how Sephirot has restarted the events. Has he sent his post AC consciousness back to when Cloud arrives in Midgard in FFVII Remake? (the music does kinda implies that he is present at the very start of the game). I honestly have no idea but in my opinion Aerith post OG + AC events gets forcibly incarnated by the Whispers at the start of FFVII Remake when she meets Cloud. They do it because the planet needs an agent that is aware of what should happen. But what if the possibility to change fate sways her? She knows she needs to die and she is aware of what she will lose. She is mortal again and I think her arc has to do with her accepting her role, so it does make sense to me that she is self deluding herself, she is not ready because in the OG she was killed, meaning she never fully accepted her role, it was forced on her by her circumstances. What if her feelings get overpowering once she get embodied again? She is fighting a reaction battle, strategically speaking. Sephiroth is changing stuff and she is trying to make it work while fighting with her mortal desires.
Whether it was Sephiroth or Aerith who initiated the Remake of events, I think Sephiroth started to tease changes with his minor appearances, but Aerith was the one who convinced the rest to step through the portal and defeat the arbiter of fate. It doesn't seem like Sephiroth could have done that on his own, because his real body was still in stasis at the Northern Crater. It seems like Aerith has a plan of her own instead of just reacting to what Sephiroth is doing.
Great vid! Max needs to get on this, so many opposing ideas, would be a good discussion / collab. The observation about Cloud crying when she is "alive" and serious/vacant when she is "dead" is really interesting. OG, Sephiroth never mentions him crying, just says that he's acting sad or angry, so entirely possible this is the new mega-punished Cloud totally breaking down, then Seph/Jeni takes it one step further by having Aerith "wake up", OR it's Omni-Aerith's last push to try to get him to hold it together...
I haven't reached out to max yet, but I have a few others. I haven't gotten a response from any of the mainline creators. I would like to do a deep-dive discussion with someone or a group. Show it to them!
I've been absolutely enthralled by this essay so far. But at the 2:20:00 mark I finally realized what's been bothering me about all of Square's new VII lore. The decision to fill in every single gap in the VII timeline takes a lot of the mystique out of its various elements. Like this whole subtext in Compilation's lore, of colored energies mixing to create different types of Lifestream, and how the Planet sustains its own life indifferently with cosmic timeline cannibalism, it turns all the mysticism of VII's lore into hard, decidedly *non-spiritual* science. If things work as you describe here, then not only are the Cetra being posers, but the Planet doesn't give a toss about its own settlers or anything, as it will consume the offshoot timelines of fate-defiers for energy. The Cosmo Canyon chapter of Rebirth also especially gave me a strong anti-religious vibe; Bugenhagen does ecological field surveys to measure the health of the Planet, and the 'cry' is heard through an amplification device rigged to a speaker, Tifa's legitimate spirit vision of the Planet's struggle is scoffed at as ridiculous, even by BH himself! The Gi's new backstory, while it does tie into the rest of the narrative better, it turns a mythical item from OG into simple leftovers of an ancient tribal conflict that is still unresolved. Rebirth's Cosmo Canyon is more of a tourist retreat for casual enthusiasts of Planetology, in extreme contrast to OG Canyon, where the Native American influence of living as one with the land, and general mysticism, was very strong. And to even go a step further, the inclusion of Shinra's founder being a descendant of Spira's Shinra from FFX-2, as shown in the company photo, revealing that Shinra EPC runs on tech they got from pseudo-advanced Spiran astronauts, settling on the Planet due to its Lifestream being similar to their Farplane / Fayth. All this felt, to me at least, in service of erasing any mystic aspects of the lore and giving them firm, logical explanations with in-universe science. Anyway I just had to get this out of my system and thought you might get where I'm coming from. I'm not against where they're going with this story, as it's gotten me reinvested in VII as a series, but it's sad that The Planet, itself, seems to have become so abstract that it almost feels reductive now to think of Minerva as a noble, protective entity as She seemed in Crisis Core. Fantastic video man, can't wait to see your analysis for Pt3 someday.
Yeah. I think the OG 7 even had some of that demystifying element with professor Gast interviewing Ifalna and contradicting the idea that Jenova was an ancient Cetra, when she was actually an alien. You should watch my video on the real-life implications off FF7-Rebirth. I haven't played or completed most of the FFs, but I know Tactics, 10, and 16 had big themes of religious fraud. I have tried getting ProfNoctis and Schrodingersbabyseal to watch the theory, but I think they are reluctant to see it or comment on it because they are afraid of some of the implications of the new potential direction, especially ProfNoctis. He's a religion teacher who seems to not like the idea of removing mysticism. Or, they think if there are clear answers it will make the story less interesting or exciting. Or, maybe because uncertainty allows for more content creation. Obviously, mysticism can be cool and interesting. We seem to really like fantasy in stories and games. But, it seems like a lot of the FF games try to indicate there is a difference between mysticism that is meant to explore and inspire, and mysticism that is meant to distract and deceive.
@@VicM88 Also, your comment about how the Planet creates things from its memory in some remote location deep within the Lifestream, made me think back to Remake's finale - if you're right, then the ending of Remake is Sephiroth giving you access to that inaccessible location, where the Planet is reconstructing the "old Midgar" (from PSX) to 'stamp' onto the "new Midgar" (from Remake) and temporally replace it altogether to solve the anomalies. I had seen theories about why the Midgar you fight above with Harbinger has the 'old' Reactor markings, but your theory seems to nail the reason for that. It was a memory of a location from its 'main' timeline. Maybe it intended to merge Remake back into OG timeline and feed off it? And had been planning to do the same to the timeline Zack is in, only for the Rainbow Whispers to keep leading him from one branching decision to another, keeping him one step ahead of timeline merges by the Planet (hence why Stamp keeps changing)?
@@Hugsloth Yeah it seems something like that. My guess is that Sephiroth is opening the branches to lead Zack and the party around to either not die or get to that root will of whatever is at the source of "fate." I think at the forgotten capital, despite him saying the worlds are merging, he actually created an offshoot world to accommodate Aerith living. I do still have some big questions after making this theory. Like, is there actually a "Planet" character or are what we think is the "will of the planet" actually composed of different beings in the planet? It's interesting that all the weapons from the OG have a red core and red eyes, which may mean they actually came from the Gi's world, which could explain why they never attacked Sephiroth as he was summoning Meteor.
@@VicM88 That's certainly possible, if we consider the idea that their world's historical understanding of the Weapons and their origins are wrong (as they were about Jenova being a Cetra). From the repeated implications that ETERNITIES had passed since the Gi had been rejected by the Lifestream, it's obvious the red energy has been around a very, very long time. Like, the Ancients only died out less than 2000 years ago, sometime shortly after Jenova was sealed, with Ifalna's bloodline being the very last. The Gi are implying themselves to be much, much older than that, despite these new implied connections to Jenova, who only showed up a comparatively short time ago. It would make perfect sense if your theory came true, and the Gi had forged some cooperative plan with Jenova around the time of her Arrival on the surface.
I've been enjoying the video so far and plan on continuing watching it but you missed the mark so hard at 41:40 it brought everything to a complete halt. Cloud doesn't attack Sephiroth because it's being suggested that he's a coward, Cloud is attacking Sephiroth because "run Cloud, run away, you have to leave, you have to live" are the last words his mother (Claudia) spoke to him before dying
That seemed to be a fake memory. The building was already toast when Cloud was on the ground outside, AND Sephiroth said he stabbed her. She probably wasn't speaking. It doesn't factor that much into the theory though.
@@VicM88 nah man remake's ultimania revealed those were her final words years before rebirth even came out. Either way, false memory or not, that's what Cloud thinks happened so that's why he reacted the way he did. Don't worry it's a mild fumble that my autism couldn't help but point out lol. I'm still watching / enjoying the video, I'm about halfway through now, and so far you make a compelling argument and I see no real faults in your theory, it makes more sense of what's going on than most that's for sure
Definitely some intriguing points. Location of the Black Materia is plausible. But for you main point to hold, the developers would be subverting, undermining, deconstructing the themes of the original. I do not find _that_ plausible, however strong the logic is.
Im watching and going back a lot, so before i forget, i think it was the whispers that tried to kill the president and it makes sense because sephiroth wasnt killing him. He wanted to watch the conversation. Sephiroth stopped the whispers from killing him as he shrugged them off so easily. The president probably wasnt directly controlled, maybe just onfluenced, but i dont have a sense of conviction in that take. I thank you for this video, i dodnt relize how much i had forgotten. I only played through once forever ago
2:03:41 Sepiroth didn’t say the true materia was hidden between worlds, he said the true _counterpart_ was hidden between worlds. In other words, the white materia. Which is what see in the very next scene when Sepiroth invades Aerith’s reality.
Counterpart definition on Google is: 1. a person or thing holding a position or performing a function that corresponds to that of another person or thing in another place. 2. one of two or more copies of a legal document. The white materia is not the black materia's counterpart. Counterpart doesn't mean opposite. It more closely means a copy or placeholder.
Fuck. The whispers saving Wedge as a pawn to correct deviations and then disposing of him in a manner similiar to his OG fate hits hard and makes so much sense. In the grand scheme of things, the planet is just doing what it must to preserve itself. Which is why it fights so hard to preserve the way things were meant to go. Cuz the planet lives. Even if humanity dies out 500 years after the events of FF7 og and ac. The only reason the planet fights but also saves our protags is cuz they are the best hope of self preservation but also acting intentionally against the planet's will at times.
Had to watch it in intervals but sooo worth it because you noticed so many things I didn’t catch like Cloud crying when Aerith lives but not when she dies. I have been wondering since rebirth how connected the Gi and Jenova are due to the effigies and whether or not they summoned Jenova on a meteor to save them. Maybe we will find out in part 3 maybe some things will be left mysterious. But I especially liked you considering the planet Gaia as having an inherently blue life force- I always assume it’s green. But in the remake series Aerith has been sooo heavily linked to the colour yellow while Jenova and Sephiroth was linked with purple. At first I just assumed it was colour theory that they’re opposites on a colour wheel. But realising that life on Gaia like Cetra and humans are coded yellow, while Gaia itself is blue- the Gi as red and Jenova and Sephiroth as purple life forces of yellow and red battling for that blue is such an interesting concept. As a big Aerith simp I do not want her to be a bad guy or in the wrong come game 3- but I definitely want those colours we keep seeing to be explored and expanded on.
I had a scary thought. You know how we only see male Gi? What if... Jenova are actually the female Gi! OMG!? Yeah, Aerith is certainly up to something. Will be interesting to see exactly what it is.
@@VicM88 ohhh like a queen bee situation? Now that’d be interesting and I genuinely don’t know what I’d want more: more explicit lore explaining and confirming that or leave it vague for theory crafting. And yeah as much as I do love her it’s been clear since day 1 Aerith is doing *something* I just don’t entirely know for a fact what that something is.
I like your theories regarding the different colored lifestream. I never gave the blue lifestream any thought to be fair. But as for some of your other ideas in the last half, I gotta disagree. Example, I think Aerith is dead, and Cloud is blocking it out. Either way, great video, and agree to disagree. We’ll all have to wait and see what happens.
Do you mean dead, as in, she has no chance breaking into the main reality and having a physical effect on it? I think her main world version died, but she has a living self dead in a 2nd world, but that world is on the verge of dying. I think it's maybe possible she could live, but she certainly has some effect on Cloud. Do you think it's Jenova making Cloud think Aerith is alive? Aerith? Or Cloud just lying to himself?
@ I think she’s dead, but due to her being a Cetra she is able to retain her spiritual self and move freely in the lifestream and its worlds. But I think she’s physically dead in all the worlds. I think that maybe Jenova’s cells are using their mimic ability to make Cloud see Aerith in the Forgotten Capital because there is something very eerie and unsettling about that Aerith. The fact that she doesn’t seem to feel any sadness seeing Tifa and the rest of the party grieve is questionable. As for the Aerith out in the field, maybe that’s our Omni Aerith. But she was so set on Cloud focusing on himself, that I find it odd that when Cloud says he’ll stop Sephiroth, she’s like “promise?🥴” when she’s been saying she’ll deal with him herself and for Cloud to just focus on himself. Maybe both Omni Aerith and a Jenova Aerith are at play. So Aerith could be protecting Cloud from seeing the truth, and he himself could be blocking it out as well. It’s hard to say definitively.
What you mean? I should have commented on music more or had music in the video? I never liked the theory videos that played excessive amounts of music in the background. Seemed to always detract from what the person was saying and made the video more emotionally grabbing rather than analytically.
I think it is one version of Zack finding Aerith and Cloud have gone missing and he figures they would go to the church, it being Aerith's special spot, but he gets there after Sephiroth has already killed her, why everyone is crying.
2:03:08 I don't think this portion of the analysis is on point. The reason being where Aerith is - how can she see the Black Materia at the bottom of the pit when standing in the middle of the bridge. None of the cutscenes before or after the closeup of her face indicate she changed positions. If she was able to see it, why weren't the other members of Avalanche? I agree with the end result of Aerith putting the Black Materia in Cloud's possession, but I think the closeup of her face was a moment of realization on her part, not so much identifying where exactly the materia was.
Yeah she does not physically see it, but she is in communion with the lifestream before entering and inside the temple. It's more that she senses it or she is being shown where it is. She is able to read the Cetra's language, even though she has no knowledge of it. And originally, she was the one who knew the temple would become the BM. More of a sense or bestowed knowledge thing. Her expression is just the clue that she notices something.
So you believe aerith is malevolent in the remake? Trying to control cloud? Idk if control is the word i'd use. Maybe guide. Personally think her end goal is to stop sephiroth once and for all, as in no more Advent children as its ending implies he can come back which he does in the remake trilogy. To me, the manipulation, or rather withholding of information, is about her death. She believes she must die in order to achieve this goal. If the cloud knew about this, he wouldn't agree, he'd try to find another way but aerith simply wont risk sephiroth destroying the world. The song NPTK even says this. She talks about hating this burden she has but that she must bear it to save cloud, the party, and the world. I dont really think aerith is the "end justify the means" kind of person you're kinda paintin in the theory, but it's just my opinion. I just don't see them completely changing her character like that. They already made her more complex by showing how she has much darker thoughts bout hojo in contrast to the OG in which she definitely felt like a paragon of good. I don't really see the game being a more nuanced, "no one is really bad" thing. I do think jenova and seph are just flat out evil and aerith is good. The conflict between the Gi and Cetra is interesting though. I can't really argue that the Cetra were no self-righteous. I do think that smt prob had to be done with the Gi but I dont think they were necessarily pure evil like jenova. They are definitely bad, but the remake does paint them as more nuanced as well as the Cetra. However, it should be noted that the Gi are fundamentally settlers and really don't belong there. The kind of mess stuff up just by being there. Still an amazing video essay though, you clearly put in a lot of work. We'll just have to wait and see what happens
Yeah. About who will turn out to be "bad or good," a lot of what I was showing is that they are setting up for some big changes on that front. As for the specifics, we will have to see what kind of information we get in p3. Whether it will be a complete history story, or bits and pieces with the reality being unclear, is super interesting to find out.
I dont understand why u have need for bashing Aerith like that. Bro she literally took Kadaj to lifestream in Advent Children and he was one of Sephiroth s remnants. I dont think u understand her and also other characters, nobody is simply "lying" it s always complicated situations. Sephiroth killed Tifa s dad, Cloud s mom, Cloud and Tifa s neighbours, because of him Cloud s end up messed up and Zack dies and Jenova controlled by Sephiroth killed Aerith so u know there s lil bit of problem with forgiving him. Video was fine until u start bashing characters. And btw u should probably check japanese line for " those who look with clouded eyes.." because english team effed up translation. Also this version of Sephiroth (who absorbs meteor and knows Cloud s limit break and scene of final fight from OG FF7 is recreated suggests this is AC or post AC Sephiroth same goes for Aerith) I dont think he will be fooled by fake black materia I dont think Aerith gave materia to Cloud either There s a ton mistranslation in this game so u cant take things literally But respect for long video
Thanks. I think the creators directed the English translation differently because there are different meanings of words within cultures when you take direct translations. For example, apparently the Japanese version calls the Whispers "Feelers," which is a completely different word in English and has a very different implication. Another example, when Sephiroth sees Cloud has the White Materia, in Japanese he says something like, "You should be punished." It's a different technical meaning of "very poor form," but they are both accusations that Cloud/Aerith are breaking rules or norms, which punishment is for. I don't think you completely understand the theory. Sephiroth was not fooled by the fake. He knew it was fake and allowed Aerith to take the real one, because he wants her to think she has an Ace up her sleeve. The reason I rip on Aerith some is because these poor aspects of her personality are allowing her to be controlled/manipulated/guided by Sephiroth. Aerith took up Kadaj because Kadaj was largely from the lifestream. He was a human form, still. So is at least half of Sephiroth.
@@VicM88 japanese version is making more sense if they talked before or if he s trying to try something new but he is mass murderer so u know... I dont think AC or post AC Aerith is anything u describing and she has planet on her side so her will could be will of planet or will of lifestream In AC she is shown as semi goddess welcoming people into afterlife, travelling back n forth, resurrecting Cloud, devs re talking about "her consciousness being with Cloud" but movie shows different things They changed so many things that nobody knows for sure if they follow OG FF7 story where Seph is regenerating in N.crater and Cloud gives him B.M. This Seph is allready absorbing Meteors, has portals all over the place, knows things up to AC or more and u re telling me that Cloud who was allready mindcontrolled so much that he almost killed Tifa it s gonna slash Seph reg.body with BM buster sword? Cloud is getting controlled through jenova cells and he definetely had no Aerith cells in him. Aerith probably gave Cloud ability to see multiple worlds in similar way she gave him ability to see whispers when touched him. Tifa exposed to deep lifestream gain also partial ability to see multiple worlds that s why she sees 2 realities when running to altair. At the end of the day devs make things this way so people will want play 3rd game and find answers, nobody knows for sure what s going on But after playing Ever Crisis it seems there will be some kind of Sephiroth redemption arc, they even link cutscene to Seph at EoC and in ome cutscene it s either he s having painful memory or Jenova headache, which can lead into more of watashi/ore Seph theory. Now Seph red.arc can be something as messed up as him killing Rosen to save Glenn, Matt and Lucia. And he allready has fixation with Cloud so i hope his vision isnt to kill everyone except Cloud but he s allready saying weird things like wants Cloud to burn the world like he did.
@@saulmiller422 Yes, Sephiroth could have a redemption arc. But the point of the video is to show he and Jenova had actual reasons why they were pissed off at the Cetra and Gaians. There is still the issue of the Gi being trapped, who Jenova looks for sure to be associated with. What do you expect Jenova and Sephiroth to do relating to them? Just ask pretty please? We already see the Gaians lying about returning their Black Materia to them. Why would they want to be nice? They wouldn't necessarily. That's the main reason I expose Aerith's BS. If a "positive" result is going to happen, it will probably be the result of Sephiroth's work on Cloud, Rufus, and Zack.
I think Aerith at the end is Jenova. He can't accept her death. So they're gonna add her original death to lifestream section with tife which will break cloud even more. that empty materia is Cloud(since he's empty) so after accepting the fact that both Aerith and zack are death and he's not a soldier, that empty materia will become Cloud materia with a new color
Wait how do you know that this was 'all delusional' in relation to what Sephiroth originally worked out. Seohiroth in the very speech in the original demozies the Cetra... Then refers to himself as a decendent of the Ancients, this makes no sense. Unless you concede that an Ancient and Cetra are not one in the same... They were once, but set this path aside for a moment. Jenova is literally an Ancient. Sephiroth wasn't incorrect in what he said, he always knew what Jenova was in the original at least after travelling the Lifestream, yet his speech in the oroginal he actually knew more. Why would he berate the Cetra (who are too Ancients but strayed from their duties) and then be happy to be glorified as an Cetra/Ancient. This is because the two are not one in the same, not anymore at least. In the remake this has been redacted to some extent this realties version of Seohiroth does think that he is decended from the Cetra as such Jenova is in complete control, in the original he overtook Jenova's consciousness and controlled her with the knowledge of the Lifestream, which he still does retain, but onoy in liminal spaces of the lifestream. Jenova is now completely in control I think... until we see the real Sepbiroth, that only seems to appear in liminial spaces, where he has only spoken of assisting. When Aerith says, You're wrong you're all wrong. Necause that is not Sephiroth it's Jenova. Sephiroth has only been seen in the remakes twice when transported to the singularity. A version of this is warped by Aerith and only seen with light. Paired with what Sephiroth says both in the original and in the present Remake Trilogy isn't completely incorrect... That we know of. He says originally the Cetra would move in settle a planet then move on. However, Jenova is not referred to as a Cetra, but an Ancient as are the Cetra... Both are interchangeable with one another, as Jenova is an ancient, being seemingly unable to die no matter how many cycles the world has gone through. Jenova has persisted, the Cetra are an Ancient race, true. However, they did possibly forsake what their purpose was, whatever that may be, which I assume is to come build a world and move on. Instead the Cetra settled the planet becoming the dominant race for a while. Until Jenova lands to perhaps 'correct' that mistake hundreds of millenia ago. Sephiroth may have been the first to see this, the planet is trapped in a cycle, no matter what Jenova; it is still an Ancient, trapped. As are the memories and thoughts of all that are present in the Lifestream seemingly unable to move forwards. When what possibly 'should' occur is the energy being used to settle the next planet or part of it anyway, either way you can deduce that the Cetra did something wrong in their duties and Sephiroth worked this out. We know that the Cetra created materia. Magic, from the Lifestream... according to Shinra, however the Gi also have this ability, they mention that the Cetra are not what people think at all, not inherently pure as history has portrayed it anyway. The life that was originally supposed to be settled here may have been the Gi, however they were usurped by the Cetra. Then they're descendents, humanity, that were meant to travel in and leave... This could be Minerva as the original Ancient that came to Gaia. That OR (this is more likely) the Gi were or are a part of the Cycle that Jenova's purpose as an Ancient was, however she was disrupted from her own journey to intervene and 'fix' what the Cetra had done. She may have come first, making Sephiroth a decendent of the Ancients that gave life to the Gi. This may be why the Gi are trapped in the centre of the Planet similar to how Terra and Gaia work in FFIX. The cycle has been horrendously disrupted. The Gi are stuck in what is essentially a version of Hell, because of the Cetra's desire to settle. Sephiroth's plan wad to absorb the Lifestream and travel on, additionally the Weapon from Dierge's (Urgh) purpose is to do the same, we know weapons are the will of the planet. It may be proable that the Lifestream was supposed to be linear or cylical but with only one source of life. Which has been completely disrupted, resulting in an Ouroboros state for the planet and all involved. Trapping all in the planet including both humanity's conciousness, the Gi and the Cerra in a cyclical neverending dream. Remember in remake it is n9 longer the planet that screams other than fate and the noise of the weapons takes the place of Gaia from the original. I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here... I've only just got through 20% of this video. Anothet thing, Aerith's ability to pierce the entire perview of what is going on may be symbolic. Due to the fact that she is half Cetra and half human... She is literally half of the Ancient magick and knowledge of the planet and half the Scientific knowledge that led to Seohiroth's initial conception... Aerith is somewhat aware of the reality she's in and what's going on right up until she breaks fate, this is the same Aerith that gives Cloud the empty materia. Which Cloud could potentially use to create a somewhat 'true holy'. Which would need the memories of all, Gi included which may be why, she allows the Black Materia to remain in Cloud's pocket. Sorry I should wait but I need my notes! Issues are that Seohiroth knew of Jenova and Lucrecia in the original. However, the theory doesn't fall apart because of that. Seohiroth originally took over Jenova and controlled it. Which is why the he uses it's mimic abilities to show himself from the minute he took over Jenova's consciousness and escape the Shinra building. He then brings himself the Bpack Materia to become a living God. However, he may have been unaware that by overtaking Jenova's consciousness he already was one. What I think is happening here is that Seohiroth can see that Jenova is now the one in control in most realities. As the Lifestream is incapable of purging her, as we saw in Advent Children. As such, Seohiroth is doomed to be used over and over again. Or simply repeat his mistakes forever because with Jenova entangled in the Lifestream the planet just cannot die. It is trapped in a state of dreaming, although the state of dreams and reality are both aspects of one another so... Inconsequential really. As said by the woman in Cosmo Canyon if the Lifestream cannot distinguish dream from reality what does it matter both exist. Seohiroth is present in liminal spaces, he seems to want to absorb the memories or the Gi stored in the Black Materia... And likely holy to gain enough power to escape the same purgatory as the Gi and similarly the entire life of the planet is now stuck within. Aerith, by not trusting Sephiroth as you have pointed out is now just as bad as Jenova, or as each other. However, you haven't taken into account that after the Whipers surroded her in the Shinra HQ she lost her 'Omni' status and jit brcame another Aerith in that world essentially dying at the end of Remake. As for her and Jenova I don't even think you can blame them and was just either overthrown or came to correct the mistakes of Minerva (more likely the latter and being the mother of the Cetra) and the only true statement made by her is ironically when she is possessed. 'Nothing is forever'. Unless it's an Ouroboros and a constant state of Rebirth, however this ends up becoming earily similar to hell... If not one in the same. So, Sephiroth just wants to break the cycle. As said the planet needs to return to the singularity, where it will eventually undergo a Rebirth and the Ancients can continue their work of going Planet to Planet instilling life and letting it undergo it's own cycle. Not this hellscape Quantum entanglement that occured by mistake. Aerith in this theory really is her fathers daughter and essentially triggering the events over and over. The version of Sephiroth that appears with one Black wing in the Temple of the Ancients throws this all out slightly. It doesn't make much sense. Though it may be the only time that a Jenova/Sephiroth combination speaks with a Aerith/Minerva and when the initial meeting took place. If Cloud attacks or gives Sephiroth the Black Materia in the crater. He would be giving it to a metephorical version of either the games original... Or finally awale the true Sephiroth. Sephiroth was only seen twice in the original in the Crater and... Again in the Crater. Whether he plans to take that materia and use it to absorb a 3rd Meteor as we have seen he seems to be doing... Although given the purple hue this may more likepy be Jenova. With Seohiroth only being able to occupy the singularity or spaces between worlds, or versions that are under Jenova's control or still have Sephorpth's old mentality. There is so much more to this. Whoever said to send this to Maximillion Dood... No, he wouldn't understand it. Final Fantasy Peasant on the other hand would understand this on a much deeper level. As he understands the basis from which games are rooted within, such as the various religions for example Qabbala/Yggdasill, i.e. The tree of Sephiroth. Probably helping to reach a better conclusion than... The other one. I need to write more. This was so good, amazingly well done and thought out very well. I am exhausted and doneth. I shall return. Amazing video, your simplified version doesn't do this justice at all. Really stella work. Sorry, here I am rambling incoherently here as I am writing it down as I go along. I feel . It is important, to an extent to write down for me to go over. These are just mad ramblings, until I can piece this together, I wouldn't have been able to do so without this video though! However, I'm not finished. This probably won't even make sense until I've finished and gone over it all. I will return to and continue adding to it.
I missed the part where the Cetra state that they were probably envied because of their Celestial advisary, which I'm guessing is Jenova for the Gi. However, Minerva was not meant to remain and allow the Cetra to dominate in such a way. Whilst she occupied the planet first, as true Ancients their job is to come, create life then continue on into the cosmos. Hence why Sephiroth calls the Cetra and their decendents traitors, as he is the only human aspect that was instilled with the Gi's human aspect in vitro. However, as Minerva remained and did not do this, as it had grown weary of travel the Cetra were given the ability to create magic from memory or perhaps were always meant to have this, since the Gi can do this too. Yet are supposed devolve into humanity or a lower life form. However, due to the emergence of Jenova whilst one Celestial still occupied the Planet. Possibly when a new lifecycle... NOT! A calamity from the skies, as described by the Cetra is supposed to take it's place akin to natural order, they become trapped within one anothers flow of life. With the life they were meant to have being granted seeded and then left to its own devices until time saw fit to Renew. Resulting in 3 genetically incompatible aspects populating Gaia, it would be four, but the Gi are trapped in a cycle of purgatory and thus cannot devolve from their closer to Godlike state. Allowing them to create the Black Materia for salvation and the Cetra to create Holy for theirs. However, as holy was there first it would perform it's funtion of a reset... In it's natural way similar to how Cetra and the Lifestream work. Whereas, Meteor is close to how Jenova works in their memories colliding with a planet and seeding Rebirth that way. Therefore, Sephiroth is potentially Gi/Jenova in a human devolved aspect can summon meteor and Aerith also being Minerva/Cetra's version can use Meteor. However, in the original they all just fuck up the planet and leave it in stasis because 'This isn't how it's supposed to be'. However! Cloud, Angeal, Gensis and Zack all possess all 4 aspects 6 if you include the Ancients that seeded them. As Soldiers are injected with Jenova Cells, they could create the necessary memories from all genetic ancestors... Though, you could argue Seohiroth could do this too. Aerith maybe gave the Clear Materia to Cloud on the hopes of this as it had once housed the memories of holy. The Cetra are likely self-righteous since their Ancient deity still resides and thus believe themselves the natures intended 'stewards of the planet'. Leading to the Gi becoming 'bitter' since they were unable to rightfully claim the planet in the natural cycle as Minerva had grown weary of her journey... Though, her children that she gave life to had devilved to a point where they literally created an arms company that became the worlds Government that literally sucks the planet of its own lifeblood to survive and Jenova was supposed to do her duty in seeding the next stage of life. Gaia has just become a poor middle woman. Dreaming the dreams of it's dead trapped in a cruel never ending cycle of purgatory for all.
@@charliewild2367 I like how into it you are. I think there is a misconception that a lot of people have, that Sephiroth in the original had understood Jenova was an alien and not a Cetra. In the original flashback he says, "But, those who disliked the journey appeared. They stopped their migrations, built shelters and elected to lead an easier life. They took that which the planet and the Cetra had made without giving back one whit in return!" He did not say ALL Cetra neglected their duty. Only some of them. Those were supposedly Cloud's ancestors and the rest of the "humans." Originally, Sephiroth never understood Jenova was not actually a Cetra. Sephiroth did not die when Cloud stabbed him. When he traveled the lifestream, he physically traveled it. It's doubtful the lifestream would have shown Sephiroth anything about the truth. At the northern crater, it's only the top half of his body because Cloud stabbed him in the low back with his huge buster sword. He lost his legs on the way, which is why he had to stay in the Mako stasis. We also know he physically traveled there, and not his spirit going through the lifestream, because in the beginning of AC the Turks find Jenova's head inside the northern crater. He never "took control" of Jenova, indicated by his AC copies still being obsessed with finding "Mother" and crying over it. Hojo randomly says it at the NC in the original, but he doesn't really have a basis for it. Sephiroth may have thought he was in control, but it was still largely Jenova manipulating him.
I dont know if it's right to say Aerith is contradicting herself by not forgiving Sephiroth. I also think forgiveness is also forgiving *yourself* because she and everyone else has something they probably need to forgive themselves for.
I've been thinking alot about this and wanted to add: Aerith isn't being hypocritical at all. On the beach she and at the nibelheim water tower she makes it out how bad she feels about the negative thoughts she's having. Which means she isn't saying any of this from a place of nievety, she wrestlers with these thoughts of anger, regret, and sadness too. But just because you're aware of them and know what you're supposed to do, doesn't make it easy to do. Changing is difficult and takes active work which is what she's clearly trying to do for herself even if she hasn't fully succeeded. But it's clearly not in her overall nature and beliefs to hate people. It's also not being intolerant to fear and be upset with someone who is currently causing mass malicious acts beyond the scope of the universe lol. Whether she's forgiven Sephiroth or not isn't what's being said. She may feel pity for him, she even asks him in the final fight of Rebirth if this is truly what he wants and tries to wrap her head around why he wants this and he refuses to answer his question. That doesn't sound like being intolerant. Also "everyone lies" 1. Theres no such thing as forvever We dont know exactly what that means but we do know that when she says that Aerith isnt fully herself. She speaks in two voices and a green aura is around her. Its likley her future self talking. You cant say shes lying when her past self is talking about her current beliefs about time. And honestly, the past is more or less forever. The past events only seem to be able to be changed to the extent Sephiroth can control Cloud which is only a few weeks before the games story begins. The stuff thats happened in their lives prior? Unchanged. Remake seems to have new events happen to the characters but the core events are the same. So this can't be a lie. 2. Tifa & Aeriths girltalk and post girltalk Tifa is dealing with someone with a clearly delicate psyche. She knows something is wrong and doesnt know what it is. If youve ever been around someone in such a delicate sitiation, you DO need to be careful of what you say and do around them. All Aerith did was try to check up on Cloud necause she knows he and Tifa are in a bad place. Thats omission, sure but its being done in empathy and the fact that Tifa told Aerith this stuff in confidence. Lumping this into "everyone sucks" because theyre looking out for a mentally ill friend is kind of.... nuts. BTW going to post this seperatley since people will probably not read the reply.
@SurAuvers I'm half way through the video and I agree honestly I feel that the video was disingenuous about aerith, to prove a point like some parts of her dialogue was cut out or was taken out of context to portray her as being manipulative but I believe that's not really the case and that she's human and she makes mistakes, her weaknesses which may not be obvious to others but is very well obvious to cloud is making her say things that are mean, but I believe it doesn't comes from a place of malice but of pain in which she herself criticized herself for
I really don't get the vibe from the Gi that they would destroy the world. While it's curious that the Gi say the materia existed but did not stir until they were alerted to it, I don't see a reason why they would want to destroy the planet unless it really was the only way to totally eradicate their lingering souls. And seeing cloud equip the materia to his sword at the end is really curious because I never thought about the black materia being equipped would do anything except, you know, cast meteor. But he doesn't slot it in, it's almost disappearing like holograms would
Possibly part of the gamut of end bosses. There is probably something behind Aerith like Minerva or maybe something greater representing the Cetra. Genesis for sure is going to appear and represent Minerva in p3.
What is your hatred for Aerith coming from. Are you seeing her through clouded eyes? She knows the evil of Hojo. She does have compassion for the Turks, they have a shitty job and do bad things for the shitty job, so yeah they're complicit, but they are inherently evil people. When Aerith was still young but living with Elmyra, Tseng looked after her. Whenever she was out and about in the slums, Tseng always watched out of sight, but she knew he was there. There is an unspoken bond between them.
Did you mean to say the Turks are not* inherently evil? Do you think Hojo is inherently evil? What does inherently evil even mean? "It's their job" is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard. Hojo was hired by Shinra. He's doing his job too. Yeah, Hojo is doing some things on his own volition, but we have plenty of examples with former SOLDIERS and Reeves contradicting or defecting from Shinra. Tseng is consistently shown to be a ridiculous person from when he tried backwards rationalizing dropping Sector 7 plate to when he asked the party to "take care of Aerith for me" as he threw a grenade into them. But to answer your question, I'm very familiar with this kind of excuse making. I know where Sephiroth is coming from. I understand his, Jenova's and the Gi's conclusion to punish Gaia and the Cetra, including Aerith. A lot of why I made this theory is because I understand what they are setting up here. Exactly how bad or how much of a problem they make Aerith out to be in part 3, we'll see. I'm very interested in how they'll handle this, and I am showing other people like you the patterns and mechanics of the developers' and Sephiroth's strategy.
I always wonder why Cloud is special, why was he able to defeat sephiroth, why he is also able to see the fissure in the sky now. why can he still see aerith. My theory is that Cloud is also decend of cetra knight, it whould explain why he can see life stream persons. He is basically a cetra with jenova cells What do you guys think?
Getting real tired of overly long video essay slop, but this one probably takes the cake. Incessant long clips breaking the pace despite acknowledging people watching are familiar with theories and therefore the story, weird to follow structure, couldn't pass the 1h10 hour mark and still didn't feel like an overall point was made. Script needed more drafts, and editing more time in the oven to support the script and not mess with the pace. Long ≠ good.
I did make a 12 minute summary version you can watch. th-cam.com/video/D9u6VKyWWTI/w-d-xo.html I did notice after watching it myself I could have cut it down a bit, but this video was largely about providing as much evidence for the theory as I could while keeping it concise. 1h10m was just before some of the major points come up. Maybe you're just not hard enough. I'd watch the summary.
I am now 33 and a half minutes in. Sephiroth is a good guy now? Is that where this is going? Jenov is the enemy. Thats jenova aerith in rebirth end. In the fight in that... liminal (sounds right?) space too maybe. Sephiroth is doing his best to get cloud to see that jenova is in control
Wait... At the aerith is and isn't dead scene... That's a different Sephiroth. We're seeing the good one I think. The Sephiroth in that white space with the lore dump after the church... That's the one from the end of remake. That's the good one.
"with their old world destroyed, will they thank you for their new one?" The president asked that. Sephiroth wants to destroy Gaia with meteor to free the gi and jenova from their immortality, and I think the people can make a new home on meteor? Maybe it's been waiting for life? Or it will absorb the lifestream and become habitable for everyone? 46 minutes in this is crazy
You literally said you assume I have familiarity with the theories, I have like none. I've heard people say that it's ac seph, but I'm not great at art interpretation, so I didn't know the depth of ac ending. I feel like I'm catching up though
You're insane you're insane you're insane but I like it wtf. Almost there. Wtf. Third game we go in the lifestream to heal aeriths cetra supremacy? Oh my gooood this is great
It's not so much that Sephiroth is a good guy, but that there is a struggle over the idea of what is good or bad. Yeah, I think Seph is training Cloud and Rufus to be able to shrug off Jenova's control. He wants them to be able to make their own decisions, because he knows he himself was manipulated and lied to in the original.
While some things like the Shadow Flare comments are certainly way too much of a stretch, the vast majority of what you say here actually sounds really on point and logical, even if I don't actually believe all of it and could argue various parts pretty conclusively, I feel, but not here. If nothing else, this gives a new dimension to how I, at least, think about what's happened and coming... By the way, the place where aerith and cloud shopped was not seen anywhere else in the game, that's why elmyra didn't stop her...check the dogs. Kadaj...Geostigma...came...from the lifestream...Jenova is purple and can infect the lifestream, hence Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children...Jenova, the purple, is a way for the Gi to join the lifestream, perhaps...to change it...maybe!
Why is the Shadow Flare comment a stretch? What do you think about he background of the Saphir Seph fight looking like a "Clouded eye seeing nothing but shadow?" Yeah, I think Elmyra didn't stop her because Aerith decided to wake up in an alternate world "that has accepted its fate." Elmyra, Marlene and Zack were pretty clearly in a world where people were fretting about the tear in the sky.
The Gi and Sephiroth are not working together. The Gi want death and they created the black materia/meteor to annihilate themselves without any thought for the planet or other life on Gaia so the Cetra stole it and Seto reneged on his promise to the Gi once he realised that. Sephiroth's goal to wound the planet is just coincednetal.
Have you heard of the Universe of D32th? did you see the part where the Gi seem to worship JENOVA, bringer of D3@th, that they seek? They worship what JENOVAROTH is made of. So, of course, Sephiroth would work with the Gi (and vice versa), his body contains JENOVA.
No no no, okay, no you can't say Aerith's forgiveness is selective. No. Hojo killed her Mom. That is an exception and there's no argument or debate. This is your only point that is not valid. other than that, masterpiece. Thank you.
I mean, yeah, but when Aerith talks about forgiveness, and not hating Tseng, Tifa and Barrett lost many of their friends, who were basically their family since they had no blood family left. Sephiroth also killed Tifa's dad. Sephiroth killed Cloud's mom. It's not like Aerith didn't know that when she made that speech. Shinra killed tens of thousands of peoples' parents and children with the Sector 7 plate drop. At minimum, her hating Sephiroth but not Tseng shows she has an extreme lack of empathy and/or an extreme double standard.
Hahaha! Yeah I think that's kind of the point. The developers seem to be doing that themselves. I didn't put it in this video, but the first time Cloud meets Aerith, she says, "No one is going to attack you. I promise." And almost immediately after Cloud gets attacked by 5 Shinra militia. Yuffie asks Aerith what she learned in Midgar. She says, "Enough," then starts mimicking Yuffie in her cheer to have the plane come like it's actually supposed to do something. She says she "puts her foot in her mouth again" when she tells Cloud to not look up on their dream date.
I spoiled Remake before playing it and it was still great. But yeah, part 3 I'm probably going to want to play first. I was able to put this theory together probably because I wasn't spending the 100+ hours actually playing the game.
@@Valentien23 I haven't owned a Playstation after PS2. It took a lot of time figuring out, writing out, and pieces the theory video together. I think I was able to notice more clues by just watching other people play than if I was in the middle of playing it myself, having to consider all the other gameplay elements.
Not a big fan of theories and I hate them with a passion, it discourages me from playing and completing the game if everybody is throwing their two cents to try make efn sense of wtf is happening in this convoluted fan fict trilogy. If part 3 is called any of the following such as, Retribution, Requiem, Redemption, Reboot or Reborn, then I know that certain content creators have had some influrence on Square Enix decision making and direction of the trilogy, and the ending. Only thing we're all certain of is that they are changing certain events that occurred in the original and the original spinoff titles from happening, and it was pretty much obvious from the start of Remake that Cloud is the key to either the success of either Aerith or Sephiroth, who wins? Cloud choice or rather the players, as the trilogy reeks of multiple endings, not one ending will be the end conclusion, because we now have bubble universes bs! and that opens the door for Square Enix to milk FFVII franchise for the forceable future. What bubble universe will we be playing in the next expansion to the FFVII franchise. I can't wait to play it on the PS6.
No I don't have any control of monetization or get anything from ads playing. This video also seems to have minor copyright claims because of the few Advent Children clips in it. Apparently, I'd need 1000 subscribers first.
Ironically, it's probably the best start. One of the reasons why I was able to fit everything together so well. I didn't have to invest a lot of time in other aspects of the game and could focus on the story and clues.
I've seen almost every theory video out there, and I have to be extremely honest when I say this is top tier. This is so well done and for the first time has me thinking to myself "oh wow, i never even th9ught of THAT", on so many of these points! Great job and I look forward to more videos from you!
Thanks! Thinking of a few videos. I take a while to make them though.
@VicM88 I mean with the depth you go and amount of work it takes, understandably so! I'll sub just to stay on the lookout!
Never wanted a theory to be true so bad.
Appreciate the work, we need more creators like you.
TY!
This is really well done. Thanks for taking the time to compile all this and share your theory - must have taken a long time.
TY! Np, yeah took a while, but ties into other things I do too.
41:40 the “run cloud, run away, you have to leave, you have to live” is Sephiroth directly quoting (as a taunt) Claudia’s final words (as I suspected when playing remake) and as confirmed when you hear her actually say them in the nibelheim flashback at the start of Rebirth.
2:29:46 I am officially subscribed to the theory that Sephiroth has been grooming Cloud to strike fast at the very sight of Sephiroth in order to stop Aeriths death at the temple of the ancients.
This post has received my official stamp of approval
Going through this video is such good brain food omg. Like the Sephiroth's intentions for Cloud part: if we're to assume that the characters have a collective unconsciousness spanning from events yet to happen, Cloud's whole "I cherish everything" persona is effectively being eroded. This in turn works really well with the whole Cloud is a puppet moniker from the OG.
Great job man. What a video. I really look forward to more content from you🤟
This theory is really cool. It's definitely something i never thought about before. Looking forward to seeing any other FF videos you make in the future.
This is probably the first theory that has come out that gives me the feeling of "Oh wow, I actually feel kinda upset because this is so well supported and makes so many of the 'question marks' in other theories make sense that it is actually VERY likely to be the truth." Well done. The Blue and Red -> Purple symbolism with the Materia, Aerith's continued focus on manipulating like sephiroth and multiple time stated focus on changing things (killing him finally) and ties to the Gi and new stuff. All of it just fits, to the degree that I feel 'primed' for it heading into part 3. Now I really want to know what Sleepezi's thoughts on this would be.
Yeah once I saw what I thought really happened with the BM, it took me a while to figure out what the hell was actually going on and how to make sense of it all. When you look at it from the perspective that "bad writing" and quirky events may not actually be simply bad writing and quirkiness, it actually fits together pretty well.
P3 is going to be ridiculously sick. Let Sleepezi know :). I haven't spoken with any of the mainstream creators yet.
Hey man I just wanted to say your theory is quite different to many others I’ve seen but also much more satisfying. Hopefully you get a chance to discuss this with other ff7 creators
Thanks!
I reached out to a few but not Max or Schrodinger or Sleepezi or any of the biggest ones. I was waiting for Sleepezi to come out with his own video. My theory will probably clash with most others'. Didn't want to influence him before he finished his thoughts.
I haven't heard any response. If people want to refer it to others, go ahead. I'm just waiting. These videos only started to get some traction about a week ago.
I am totally clear that Aerith and Sephirtoh are directly manipulating cloud to fulfill their true reason for reality, each one has the justification for taking those actions, (and also lying to themselves) about the will of Gaia, it is an honor to know your video, and congratulations for your great thread of theories with a great base of support. 🌎☁️
Bro this video is EXACTLY for what I was searching. THANK YOU! I cannot imagine the time it took to make a 3:51:07 video that’s this detailed
The first fortune is also literally what Cait does to the group 😂 I also like the notion that cloud is basically still a kid doing all of this 😂 Yuffie is 16
Phenom analysis, explanation and video overall! Thank you.
Hey man wanted to say congratualations on this epic! To be honest im not sure how i feel about Aerith being a manipulator as such, it's clear to see from remake and rebirth she withholds information, but i feel she does so out of necessity. Maybe she feels oversharing would lead to a "bad end", this all cycles around to the discovery of Jenova and what Shinra decided to do with her.
Jenova and Sephi are the arch enemy to the cetra so i think a lot of what Aerith does is out of fear of something not happening. I love how you have put all this together and a lot of the logic is sound, i just think the whole situation is far more complex because of Jenova's influence and everything that came after her discovery. On top of this we have 'fate' or opposing fates fighting against each other to either make OG happen or to stop it from happening.
Its a massive oversimplification, but i really do feel like the emphasis on perspective is so important in the retrilogy. We see almost everything from Cloud's perspective and he is unreliable at the best of times, he is severely unwell throughout remake and rebirth. By the end of Rebirth he is so unravelled that i think he needs to see her alive, he needs to believe he is capable of saving her. As much as i want Aerith to live i dont see it going any other way than OG because her death is too important, even Aerith knows that.
I loved Rebirth so much, my one gripe with it though is after her "death". Cloud's inability to see the reality of what happened took away from the rest the group, I feel we needed more time to see the rest of the party morn for her but because the focus was so mcuh on Cloud a lot of that was missing. We get so many moments throughout rebirth to take a pauses and reflect, to me the ending went by too quickly.
Anyway i went off on a bit of tangent there 😂. Regardless of an individuals theories, your video was really well presented, thought provoking and well evidenced. So again excellent work man! Thank you for putting this out there! Looking forward to part 3 so much!
Thanks! Wouldn't it be interesting if there is a new conflict between Cloud and the rest of the party because of how nonchalant he is acting after her death. If he tries explaining to them what he saw, especially if they eventually see him pull the BM out of his sword, it could create a huge rift and Cloud's "mental problems" will take a hugely different twist.
@VicM88 Yeah I think things are going to get a whole lot worse for Cloud, it could definitely go that way. I think the party see how fractured he is though and we know that Tifa is okay with allowing Cloud to think certain way if it's to protect him. Also I think retrilogy shows how well bonded the party are by the end of rebirth too, I think everyone approaches Cloud's instability tenderly out of care. Even Barret, who only saw Cloud as a tool to take on Shinra, has developed a strong friendship with Cloud so I think they would continue to deal with his spiral in a similar way. Even if it's to his detriment, like should they really be letting him make leadership decisions while he talking to Ghost Aerith? 🤣 Sending him in alone at the temple seemed like a mistake to me, especially from Tifa's perspective because she saw Cloud handing the Black Materia to Sephi.
one million kudos for this omg.. i came from the summary and i’m starting to watch this and wow!! i read from your other comments that u haven’t played the remakes, but the level of detail you go into is so amazing! i have 99h on rebirth and i feel like i played with my eyes closed and ears plugged😭😭 i’m very excited to watch this video to its full length, though! aerith’s character in rebirth is so interesting and i’m so ready for it to be expanded on it P3. also can’t wait to see the direction the writers will take for sephiroth and cloud-though cloud especially.. the way they drive home cloud as a puppet or easily manipulated etc is probably my favorite part even if i love him it’s too interesting!! i don’t understand how so many people say the remakes were ruined by ‘bad writing’ if anything it’s just a poor outlook on media from the players who say that. it’s important to look deeper into a story’s meaning and characters before making such a definitive statement of something. either look further, or don’t look at all, really! many many props to you for this interesting theory and analyzation of the art, settings, characters, and smaller details!!!!
Thanks! Yeah I think this is being written very meticulously, like Breaking Bad was. I saw an interview where BB actors were asked if they ever went off script and did something spontaneous for any of the scenes. They were all bemused, because none of them did, because it was such a carefully crafted story.
This Re-trilogy looks the same. Once you assume that nothing is bad writing and that at least almost all of it is very intentional, it actually makes a lot of sense to me.
I did play Remake, btw, just not Rebirth yet.
Hey, it’s the guy who made the video talking about Aerith’s death in Rebirth like half a year ago if you remember that video at all. I remember seeing your comment saying you were working on what I now believe to be this video and WOW you weren’t kidding. Congrats on getting this video done!
Hahaha! Yeah I remember making that comment. I really liked that video. I don't know if I was able to explain everything, but I think I was getting at the idea that the reason Cloud was able to save Aerith was because he became able to feel strong enough about losing her to cry about it.
And yeah, it took a hell of a long time to make this.
Thanks!
I just finished the entire thing and i gotta say this is such a brilliant analysis !! Props to you for not pulling out the “bad writing” card because it really is the enemy of enjoying media and it pulls you out of the game experience , leading you to think about the logistics of greedily marketing three+ games into a nostalgia baiting narrative…ect
As true as it all may be, it’s not fun at the end of the day.
I ESPECIALLY enjoyed your fresh perspective on Aerith. If the implications of your theory lead up to more concrete evidence in the upcoming game showcasing her powers and motivations, then we’re probably up for one of the most complex female characters in video game imo. The whole cognitive dissonance which makes up Aerith’s character regarding whats wrong and right fits so nicely with her mystical and religious imagery. It /she thematically clashes with the sci fi and often straight up realistic elements of the game. She’s an idealist believer and is in desperate need of a devil (sephiroth) even if tho it clouds her judgement. I personally dont think her morally grey behaviour in rebirth comes from an insincere apathy on omni-aerith’s part. Knowing her character i think she’s still emotionally processing her rage towards sephiroth, her odd unclear yearning for cloud and genuine fear of what lies ahead the steel sky. A lot of remake felt riddled with the strongest sense of grief which draped her with a remarkable (maybe accidental on the writer’s part) quality that made up for such a crazy subversion. A manic pixie transcending her reductive role of mere character development tool into becoming a lucid witty player at a chessboard Cloud is a pawn in. Accidental feminist huuuge W !!
Yeah I could tell the writers knew what they were doing. Once you look at it from a perspective that it is at least almost all intentional and not bad writing, I think it can make a lot of sense.
I'm glad you like Aerith's portrayal. I think it's really cool making Cloud her puppet.
This was great! Cannot wait for Restore/Return to hand the conclusions 😊🎉
I thought I was a fan of FF7. But God Damn this video blew my mind. Watched every moment of it
almost 4 hours, LET'S GO!
Thank you for your deep dive, this amount of effort I hope will be verified by the third part!
2:02:56 my mind was fucking blown u are a goat 🐐 so glad I made up my mind to watch a 3hour long ff7rb theory video literally had go get up out my bed for this one
Very glad you watched!
Hey to add a little to your theory, at the last fight Sephiroth sends Cloud back to the edge of creation and then Aerith arrive clouding everything as you say, if Aerith is manipulating cloud throw the empty materia as you say, that will explain how Aerith manage to enter the edge of creation maybe part of her plan was to make Sephiroth get out of there so he stop showing thinks to Cloud, by giving the empty materia to Cloud she locates and find the place where the end of creation is that's maybe why Sephiroth underestimate her
Yeah. The clear materia sure seems to be allowing Aerith to attach herself to Cloud.
I think Sephiroth put Black Materia in Cloud's pocket. He even said to Cloud "I give you, my blessing." Also Zack wasn't saved by Black Whispers. He was saved by Grey Whispers. If you compare Remake's Whispers' 3D model with Rebirth's, you can clearly see they're different. Black Whispers have purple glowing orbs under their hood. So the Sephiroth controlled Whispers in Remake were purple ones. They were the ones who were gathering grey ones and forcing them under their influence. In Rebirth, they're completely turned & under Sephiroth's whim, represented by their black color and purple orb. Biggs was also saved by Grey Whispers. Not White Whispers. Grey Whispers basically represent struggle between Aerith/White and Sephiroth/Black. Thus they're Grey.
I think Remake Whispers are the Planets influence with JENOVA as JENOVA themselves. The Purple is the Arbiter of Fate colors, One of the Final Bosses of Remake . Sephiroth doesn't have Control of Whispers of the Black until the Singularity at the End of Remake when they Split.
The Grey Whispers are actually The Regular Lifestream and the Negative Lifestream as One Fate, I think
The Grey Whispers wouldn't save Zack normally because that isn't the Original Path, the one where JENOVA ultimately wins, but also the one where the Planet lasts the longest.
The Grey Whispers decide to save Zack as they pass away because he creates Worlds for the Reunion. They are dy!ng. Basically, their Providence as a Fate Director breaks down. And therefore, they need a Reunion to fix it.
We are told in a development interview; the Grey Whispers are gone after Remake.
Also, the Grey Whispers scream and freak out when Sephiroth does anything to change anything in Remake. It is specifically called out that the Whispers are hurt by what he does, repeated in Rebirth. And They didn't want Aerith or Sephiroth to remember things that haven't happened yet. But they couldn't really affect Sephiroth.
No. Black and gray whispers actually intermixed in Remake, but none of them were under Sephiroth's "control." In the scene where Jesse is injured, they are a few clips where they appear side by side and are distinctly different, but both trying to accomplish the same thing. The whispers in Rebirth aren't really under his control either. They are spirits within the lifestream who decided to join Sephiroth. In Lifestream Black and White, Aerith watched Sephiroth's future dead spirit and noticed he was gathering a following, which she also did.
Also, when Seph slices a gash in the Weapon with Tifa inside, both black and white whispers stream out of it, BUT, when it switches to Sephiroth and his whisper cyclone's perspective, the whispers CHANGE COLOR to all White. It shows that the color of the whispers is relative.
And no, "I give you my blessing" is not Sephiroth putting the BM in Cloud's pocket. In the original, Cloud and the rest find a robed man and defeat Jenova and get the BM back anyways. There's no reason for Sephiroth to smuggle it in his pocket, especially if the events of p3 follow the original like in p1 and p2.
Plus, when Sephiroth gets close to Cloud in the in-between world saying "perhaps you need a little push," he is on the LEFT side of Cloud, but Cloud finds the BM in his RIGHT pocket.
@@VicM88 Exactly.
I've been thinking alot about this and wanted to add: Aerith isn't being hypocritical at all. On the beach she and at the nibelheim water tower she makes it out how bad she feels about the negative thoughts she's having. Which means she isn't saying any of this from a place of nievety, she wrestlers with these thoughts of anger, regret, and sadness too. But just because you're aware of them and know what you're supposed to do, doesn't make it easy to do. Changing is difficult and takes active work which is what she's clearly trying to do for herself even if she hasn't fully succeeded. But it's clearly not in her overall nature and beliefs to hate people. It's also not being intolerant to fear and be upset with someone who is currently causing mass malicious acts beyond the scope of the universe lol. Whether she's forgiven Sephiroth or not isn't what's being said. She may feel pity for him, she even asks him in the final fight of Rebirth if this is truly what he wants and tries to wrap her head around why he wants this and he refuses to answer his question. That doesn't sound like being intolerant.
Also "everyone lies"
1. Theres no such thing as forvever
We dont know exactly what that means but we do know that when she says that Aerith isnt fully herself. She speaks in two voices and a green aura is around her. Its likley her future self talking. You cant say shes lying when her past self is talking about her current beliefs about time. And honestly, the past is more or less forever. The past events only seem to be able to be changed to the extent Sephiroth can control Cloud which is only a few weeks before the games story begins. The stuff thats happened in their lives prior? Unchanged. Remake seems to have new events happen to the characters but the core events are the same. So this can't be a lie.
2. Tifa & Aeriths girltalk and post girltalk
Tifa is dealing with someone with a clearly delicate psyche. She knows something is wrong and doesnt know what it is. If youve ever been around someone in such a delicate sitiation, you DO need to be careful of what you say and do around them.
All Aerith did was try to check up on Cloud necause she knows he and Tifa are in a bad place. Thats omission, sure but its being done in empathy and the fact that Tifa told Aerith this stuff in confidence.
Lumping this into "everyone sucks" because theyre looking out for a mentally ill friend is kind of.... nuts.
It may be that Aerith is struggling with her own beliefs, but it seems like her clear decision to defy destiny and the Arbiter of Fate in order to remove Sephiroth for good, makes it look like she is not just struggling, but has a clear plan to make the world the way she thinks it's "supposed to be."
1. I'm not saying Aerith is lying there, I'm just saying she's being inconsistent. She seems to have a pattern of just saying whatever she feels is advantageous to her at the moment.
Another example is the first time Cloud meets Aerith. She says, "No one is going to attack you. I promise." And almost immediately after, Cloud gets attacked by 5 Shinra militia. She has an inclination to portray a peaceful positive world where you don't have to worry, but the reality is different.
2. This is a big part of the crux of it. Cloud is not really "mentally ill." He has a space alien in his body that is feeding him fake memories, which he does have an inclination to want to believe.
And no, Tifa and Aerith lying to Cloud does not seem to be because they are looking out for him. Why would Tifa lie to Cloud about telling Aerith he remembered Zack? That would have been the perfect opportunity to press him further on it. He clearly knew by then that his memory was screwed up, he admitted it to Tifa after Gongaga. It's not like he would have been resistant to questioning his mentality further. He himself was amazed he could just forget his friend Zack like he never existed.
When Aerith is confused when Tifa tells her, it's a really strong indication Aerith is holding Tifa back from talking with Cloud more about it.
Why? I think because it's part of Aerith's plan to use Cloud as her own puppet. By the end of Rebirth, Cloud has clearly gotten more resistant to Sephiroth/Jenova's control, shown when the Whispers had to physically force his sword up in preparation to strike Aerith, because he was not being mind-controlled like originally.
@@VicM88I think part of the reason is that even tho cloud remembers Zack, cloud still thinks he's a soldier 1st class, and crisis core was remade to make this a point of contention in the timeline. For some reason, sephiroth I'm assuming still needs cloud to feel powerful and not just random Joe
I came here after your short form summary. Even though i beat remake for a second time as a refresher before rebirth, i still missed a lot of these connections. Bravo
This makes a hell of a lot of sense,and honestly I figured a case of the classic switcheroo happened with aerith or some genjustu level stuff to confuse everyone seph dawg included
Hey first of all, congratulations for finishing this monster of a video. I really like how you edited it.
I have been musing something. Keeping in mind that some of the themes of FFVII OG was accepting the finality of death and the reality of the self, I found interesting that in your Aerith's strategy segment you talked about how she is self deluding herself. I have the feeling that she is mirroring what Sephiroth went through during the events of OG + Advent Children. Sephiroth became disillusioned with all he discovered and "chose" to se the reality of himself and, if we assume that Re-trilogy Sephiroth is the same Sephiroth that went through all the events of the OG + AC story, now he is using this knowledge to effect change. Aerith instead is trying to prevent the change from happening but I think she is not emotionally ready to let go like she did in the OG. If this new chain of events it's indeed being brought for by Septhiroth trying to change his fate, it might mean that she is reacting. She never chose to do this and when she sees Cloud again with all her memories of the future she is very conflicted. The flower talking scene is an example of that. She hints at a choice step she will have to take but she clearly doesn't want to. I think re-living the events is eroding her resolve to let go, to accept her role. In the OG she dies and she becomes a spiritual being, above mortal concerns and feelings, she does guide Cloud and Tifa in the lifestream, she appears to Cloud in AC but her role is to be a guide, she has let go of her mortal emotions.
It's not clear to me how Sephirot has restarted the events. Has he sent his post AC consciousness back to when Cloud arrives in Midgard in FFVII Remake? (the music does kinda implies that he is present at the very start of the game).
I honestly have no idea but in my opinion Aerith post OG + AC events gets forcibly incarnated by the Whispers at the start of FFVII Remake when she meets Cloud. They do it because the planet needs an agent that is aware of what should happen. But what if the possibility to change fate sways her? She knows she needs to die and she is aware of what she will lose. She is mortal again and I think her arc has to do with her accepting her role, so it does make sense to me that she is self deluding herself, she is not ready because in the OG she was killed, meaning she never fully accepted her role, it was forced on her by her circumstances. What if her feelings get overpowering once she get embodied again? She is fighting a reaction battle, strategically speaking. Sephiroth is changing stuff and she is trying to make it work while fighting with her mortal desires.
Whether it was Sephiroth or Aerith who initiated the Remake of events, I think Sephiroth started to tease changes with his minor appearances, but Aerith was the one who convinced the rest to step through the portal and defeat the arbiter of fate.
It doesn't seem like Sephiroth could have done that on his own, because his real body was still in stasis at the Northern Crater. It seems like Aerith has a plan of her own instead of just reacting to what Sephiroth is doing.
Great vid! Max needs to get on this, so many opposing ideas, would be a good discussion / collab. The observation about Cloud crying when she is "alive" and serious/vacant when she is "dead" is really interesting. OG, Sephiroth never mentions him crying, just says that he's acting sad or angry, so entirely possible this is the new mega-punished Cloud totally breaking down, then Seph/Jeni takes it one step further by having Aerith "wake up", OR it's Omni-Aerith's last push to try to get him to hold it together...
I haven't reached out to max yet, but I have a few others. I haven't gotten a response from any of the mainline creators. I would like to do a deep-dive discussion with someone or a group. Show it to them!
I've been absolutely enthralled by this essay so far. But at the 2:20:00 mark I finally realized what's been bothering me about all of Square's new VII lore. The decision to fill in every single gap in the VII timeline takes a lot of the mystique out of its various elements.
Like this whole subtext in Compilation's lore, of colored energies mixing to create different types of Lifestream, and how the Planet sustains its own life indifferently with cosmic timeline cannibalism, it turns all the mysticism of VII's lore into hard, decidedly *non-spiritual* science. If things work as you describe here, then not only are the Cetra being posers, but the Planet doesn't give a toss about its own settlers or anything, as it will consume the offshoot timelines of fate-defiers for energy.
The Cosmo Canyon chapter of Rebirth also especially gave me a strong anti-religious vibe; Bugenhagen does ecological field surveys to measure the health of the Planet, and the 'cry' is heard through an amplification device rigged to a speaker, Tifa's legitimate spirit vision of the Planet's struggle is scoffed at as ridiculous, even by BH himself! The Gi's new backstory, while it does tie into the rest of the narrative better, it turns a mythical item from OG into simple leftovers of an ancient tribal conflict that is still unresolved. Rebirth's Cosmo Canyon is more of a tourist retreat for casual enthusiasts of Planetology, in extreme contrast to OG Canyon, where the Native American influence of living as one with the land, and general mysticism, was very strong.
And to even go a step further, the inclusion of Shinra's founder being a descendant of Spira's Shinra from FFX-2, as shown in the company photo, revealing that Shinra EPC runs on tech they got from pseudo-advanced Spiran astronauts, settling on the Planet due to its Lifestream being similar to their Farplane / Fayth. All this felt, to me at least, in service of erasing any mystic aspects of the lore and giving them firm, logical explanations with in-universe science.
Anyway I just had to get this out of my system and thought you might get where I'm coming from. I'm not against where they're going with this story, as it's gotten me reinvested in VII as a series, but it's sad that The Planet, itself, seems to have become so abstract that it almost feels reductive now to think of Minerva as a noble, protective entity as She seemed in Crisis Core.
Fantastic video man, can't wait to see your analysis for Pt3 someday.
Yeah. I think the OG 7 even had some of that demystifying element with professor Gast interviewing Ifalna and contradicting the idea that Jenova was an ancient Cetra, when she was actually an alien.
You should watch my video on the real-life implications off FF7-Rebirth.
I haven't played or completed most of the FFs, but I know Tactics, 10, and 16 had big themes of religious fraud.
I have tried getting ProfNoctis and Schrodingersbabyseal to watch the theory, but I think they are reluctant to see it or comment on it because they are afraid of some of the implications of the new potential direction, especially ProfNoctis. He's a religion teacher who seems to not like the idea of removing mysticism.
Or, they think if there are clear answers it will make the story less interesting or exciting. Or, maybe because uncertainty allows for more content creation.
Obviously, mysticism can be cool and interesting. We seem to really like fantasy in stories and games. But, it seems like a lot of the FF games try to indicate there is a difference between mysticism that is meant to explore and inspire, and mysticism that is meant to distract and deceive.
@@VicM88 Also, your comment about how the Planet creates things from its memory in some remote location deep within the Lifestream, made me think back to Remake's finale - if you're right, then the ending of Remake is Sephiroth giving you access to that inaccessible location, where the Planet is reconstructing the "old Midgar" (from PSX) to 'stamp' onto the "new Midgar" (from Remake) and temporally replace it altogether to solve the anomalies. I had seen theories about why the Midgar you fight above with Harbinger has the 'old' Reactor markings, but your theory seems to nail the reason for that. It was a memory of a location from its 'main' timeline.
Maybe it intended to merge Remake back into OG timeline and feed off it? And had been planning to do the same to the timeline Zack is in, only for the Rainbow Whispers to keep leading him from one branching decision to another, keeping him one step ahead of timeline merges by the Planet (hence why Stamp keeps changing)?
@@Hugsloth Yeah it seems something like that. My guess is that Sephiroth is opening the branches to lead Zack and the party around to either not die or get to that root will of whatever is at the source of "fate." I think at the forgotten capital, despite him saying the worlds are merging, he actually created an offshoot world to accommodate Aerith living.
I do still have some big questions after making this theory. Like, is there actually a "Planet" character or are what we think is the "will of the planet" actually composed of different beings in the planet?
It's interesting that all the weapons from the OG have a red core and red eyes, which may mean they actually came from the Gi's world, which could explain why they never attacked Sephiroth as he was summoning Meteor.
@@VicM88 That's certainly possible, if we consider the idea that their world's historical understanding of the Weapons and their origins are wrong (as they were about Jenova being a Cetra). From the repeated implications that ETERNITIES had passed since the Gi had been rejected by the Lifestream, it's obvious the red energy has been around a very, very long time.
Like, the Ancients only died out less than 2000 years ago, sometime shortly after Jenova was sealed, with Ifalna's bloodline being the very last. The Gi are implying themselves to be much, much older than that, despite these new implied connections to Jenova, who only showed up a comparatively short time ago. It would make perfect sense if your theory came true, and the Gi had forged some cooperative plan with Jenova around the time of her Arrival on the surface.
@@Hugsloth Exactly. How much exactly was an eternity?
You know how we only see male Gi? What if Jenova is actually the Gi's FEMALES!? OMG!?
I've been enjoying the video so far and plan on continuing watching it but you missed the mark so hard at 41:40 it brought everything to a complete halt. Cloud doesn't attack Sephiroth because it's being suggested that he's a coward, Cloud is attacking Sephiroth because "run Cloud, run away, you have to leave, you have to live" are the last words his mother (Claudia) spoke to him before dying
That seemed to be a fake memory. The building was already toast when Cloud was on the ground outside, AND Sephiroth said he stabbed her. She probably wasn't speaking. It doesn't factor that much into the theory though.
@@VicM88 nah man remake's ultimania revealed those were her final words years before rebirth even came out. Either way, false memory or not, that's what Cloud thinks happened so that's why he reacted the way he did. Don't worry it's a mild fumble that my autism couldn't help but point out lol. I'm still watching / enjoying the video, I'm about halfway through now, and so far you make a compelling argument and I see no real faults in your theory, it makes more sense of what's going on than most that's for sure
@@Willica That is interesting. Can speculate a lot on that.
Came here to say this
Those were indeed her last words
Definitely some intriguing points. Location of the Black Materia is plausible. But for you main point to hold, the developers would be subverting, undermining, deconstructing the themes of the original. I do not find _that_ plausible, however strong the logic is.
Im watching and going back a lot, so before i forget, i think it was the whispers that tried to kill the president and it makes sense because sephiroth wasnt killing him. He wanted to watch the conversation. Sephiroth stopped the whispers from killing him as he shrugged them off so easily. The president probably wasnt directly controlled, maybe just onfluenced, but i dont have a sense of conviction in that take. I thank you for this video, i dodnt relize how much i had forgotten. I only played through once forever ago
2:03:41 Sepiroth didn’t say the true materia was hidden between worlds, he said the true _counterpart_ was hidden between worlds. In other words, the white materia. Which is what see in the very next scene when Sepiroth invades Aerith’s reality.
Counterpart definition on Google is:
1. a person or thing holding a position or performing a function that corresponds to that of another person or thing in another place.
2. one of two or more copies of a legal document.
The white materia is not the black materia's counterpart. Counterpart doesn't mean opposite. It more closely means a copy or placeholder.
Fuck. The whispers saving Wedge as a pawn to correct deviations and then disposing of him in a manner similiar to his OG fate hits hard and makes so much sense.
In the grand scheme of things, the planet is just doing what it must to preserve itself. Which is why it fights so hard to preserve the way things were meant to go. Cuz the planet lives. Even if humanity dies out 500 years after the events of FF7 og and ac. The only reason the planet fights but also saves our protags is cuz they are the best hope of self preservation but also acting intentionally against the planet's will at times.
Yeah. It'll be interesting to see if we ever find out what the will of the planet actually comes from.
amazing
Let's not forget that quadra magic (blue) and KOTR (red) is the most powerful combo haha
Had to watch it in intervals but sooo worth it because you noticed so many things I didn’t catch like Cloud crying when Aerith lives but not when she dies.
I have been wondering since rebirth how connected the Gi and Jenova are due to the effigies and whether or not they summoned Jenova on a meteor to save them. Maybe we will find out in part 3 maybe some things will be left mysterious. But I especially liked you considering the planet Gaia as having an inherently blue life force- I always assume it’s green. But in the remake series Aerith has been sooo heavily linked to the colour yellow while Jenova and Sephiroth was linked with purple. At first I just assumed it was colour theory that they’re opposites on a colour wheel. But realising that life on Gaia like Cetra and humans are coded yellow, while Gaia itself is blue- the Gi as red and Jenova and Sephiroth as purple life forces of yellow and red battling for that blue is such an interesting concept.
As a big Aerith simp I do not want her to be a bad guy or in the wrong come game 3- but I definitely want those colours we keep seeing to be explored and expanded on.
I had a scary thought. You know how we only see male Gi? What if... Jenova are actually the female Gi! OMG!?
Yeah, Aerith is certainly up to something. Will be interesting to see exactly what it is.
@@VicM88 ohhh like a queen bee situation? Now that’d be interesting and I genuinely don’t know what I’d want more: more explicit lore explaining and confirming that or leave it vague for theory crafting.
And yeah as much as I do love her it’s been clear since day 1 Aerith is doing *something* I just don’t entirely know for a fact what that something is.
Very interesting video. Great job.
This is a pretty interesting theory. We'll see how right you are in a few years I suppose.
I like your theories regarding the different colored lifestream. I never gave the blue lifestream any thought to be fair. But as for some of your other ideas in the last half, I gotta disagree. Example, I think Aerith is dead, and Cloud is blocking it out. Either way, great video, and agree to disagree. We’ll all have to wait and see what happens.
Do you mean dead, as in, she has no chance breaking into the main reality and having a physical effect on it?
I think her main world version died, but she has a living self dead in a 2nd world, but that world is on the verge of dying. I think it's maybe possible she could live, but she certainly has some effect on Cloud.
Do you think it's Jenova making Cloud think Aerith is alive? Aerith? Or Cloud just lying to himself?
@ I think she’s dead, but due to her being a Cetra she is able to retain her spiritual self and move freely in the lifestream and its worlds. But I think she’s physically dead in all the worlds.
I think that maybe Jenova’s cells are using their mimic ability to make Cloud see Aerith in the Forgotten Capital because there is something very eerie and unsettling about that Aerith. The fact that she doesn’t seem to feel any sadness seeing Tifa and the rest of the party grieve is questionable. As for the Aerith out in the field, maybe that’s our Omni Aerith. But she was so set on Cloud focusing on himself, that I find it odd that when Cloud says he’ll stop Sephiroth, she’s like “promise?🥴” when she’s been saying she’ll deal with him herself and for Cloud to just focus on himself.
Maybe both Omni Aerith and a Jenova Aerith are at play. So Aerith could be protecting Cloud from seeing the truth, and he himself could be blocking it out as well. It’s hard to say definitively.
you should have really checked the music balance throughout the video.
but very good video regardless
What you mean? I should have commented on music more or had music in the video?
I never liked the theory videos that played excessive amounts of music in the background. Seemed to always detract from what the person was saying and made the video more emotionally grabbing rather than analytically.
Great video, time to play it again
No one has an explanation for the Zack scene at the end of Intergrade.
I think it is one version of Zack finding Aerith and Cloud have gone missing and he figures they would go to the church, it being Aerith's special spot, but he gets there after Sephiroth has already killed her, why everyone is crying.
2:03:08 I don't think this portion of the analysis is on point. The reason being where Aerith is - how can she see the Black Materia at the bottom of the pit when standing in the middle of the bridge. None of the cutscenes before or after the closeup of her face indicate she changed positions. If she was able to see it, why weren't the other members of Avalanche?
I agree with the end result of Aerith putting the Black Materia in Cloud's possession, but I think the closeup of her face was a moment of realization on her part, not so much identifying where exactly the materia was.
Yeah she does not physically see it, but she is in communion with the lifestream before entering and inside the temple. It's more that she senses it or she is being shown where it is.
She is able to read the Cetra's language, even though she has no knowledge of it. And originally, she was the one who knew the temple would become the BM.
More of a sense or bestowed knowledge thing. Her expression is just the clue that she notices something.
So you believe aerith is malevolent in the remake? Trying to control cloud? Idk if control is the word i'd use. Maybe guide. Personally think her end goal is to stop sephiroth once and for all, as in no more Advent children as its ending implies he can come back which he does in the remake trilogy. To me, the manipulation, or rather withholding of information, is about her death. She believes she must die in order to achieve this goal. If the cloud knew about this, he wouldn't agree, he'd try to find another way but aerith simply wont risk sephiroth destroying the world. The song NPTK even says this. She talks about hating this burden she has but that she must bear it to save cloud, the party, and the world.
I dont really think aerith is the "end justify the means" kind of person you're kinda paintin in the theory, but it's just my opinion. I just don't see them completely changing her character like that. They already made her more complex by showing how she has much darker thoughts bout hojo in contrast to the OG in which she definitely felt like a paragon of good. I don't really see the game being a more nuanced, "no one is really bad" thing. I do think jenova and seph are just flat out evil and aerith is good.
The conflict between the Gi and Cetra is interesting though. I can't really argue that the Cetra were no self-righteous. I do think that smt prob had to be done with the Gi but I dont think they were necessarily pure evil like jenova. They are definitely bad, but the remake does paint them as more nuanced as well as the Cetra. However, it should be noted that the Gi are fundamentally settlers and really don't belong there. The kind of mess stuff up just by being there.
Still an amazing video essay though, you clearly put in a lot of work. We'll just have to wait and see what happens
Yeah. About who will turn out to be "bad or good," a lot of what I was showing is that they are setting up for some big changes on that front.
As for the specifics, we will have to see what kind of information we get in p3. Whether it will be a complete history story, or bits and pieces with the reality being unclear, is super interesting to find out.
I dont understand why u have need for bashing Aerith like that. Bro she literally took Kadaj to lifestream in Advent Children and he was one of Sephiroth s remnants. I dont think u understand her and also other characters, nobody is simply "lying" it s always complicated situations.
Sephiroth killed Tifa s dad, Cloud s mom, Cloud and Tifa s neighbours, because of him Cloud s end up messed up and Zack dies and Jenova controlled by Sephiroth killed Aerith so u know there s lil bit of problem with forgiving him.
Video was fine until u start bashing characters.
And btw u should probably check japanese line for " those who look with clouded eyes.." because english team effed up translation.
Also this version of Sephiroth
(who absorbs meteor and knows Cloud s limit break and scene of final fight from OG FF7 is recreated suggests this is AC or post AC Sephiroth same goes for Aerith)
I dont think he will be fooled by fake black materia
I dont think Aerith gave materia to Cloud either
There s a ton mistranslation in this game so u cant take things literally
But respect for long video
Thanks.
I think the creators directed the English translation differently because there are different meanings of words within cultures when you take direct translations. For example, apparently the Japanese version calls the Whispers "Feelers," which is a completely different word in English and has a very different implication.
Another example, when Sephiroth sees Cloud has the White Materia, in Japanese he says something like, "You should be punished." It's a different technical meaning of "very poor form," but they are both accusations that Cloud/Aerith are breaking rules or norms, which punishment is for.
I don't think you completely understand the theory. Sephiroth was not fooled by the fake. He knew it was fake and allowed Aerith to take the real one, because he wants her to think she has an Ace up her sleeve.
The reason I rip on Aerith some is because these poor aspects of her personality are allowing her to be controlled/manipulated/guided by Sephiroth.
Aerith took up Kadaj because Kadaj was largely from the lifestream. He was a human form, still. So is at least half of Sephiroth.
@@VicM88 japanese version is making more sense if they talked before or if he s trying to try something new but he is mass murderer so u know...
I dont think AC or post AC Aerith is anything u describing and she has planet on her side so her will could be will of planet or will of lifestream
In AC she is shown as semi goddess welcoming people into afterlife, travelling back n forth, resurrecting Cloud, devs re talking about "her consciousness being with Cloud" but movie shows different things
They changed so many things that nobody knows for sure if they follow OG FF7 story where Seph is regenerating in N.crater and Cloud gives him B.M.
This Seph is allready absorbing Meteors, has portals all over the place, knows things up to AC or more and u re telling me that Cloud who was allready mindcontrolled so much that he almost killed Tifa it s gonna slash Seph reg.body with BM buster sword?
Cloud is getting controlled through jenova cells and he definetely had no Aerith cells in him.
Aerith probably gave Cloud ability to see multiple worlds in similar way she gave him ability to see whispers when touched him.
Tifa exposed to deep lifestream gain also partial ability to see multiple worlds that s why she sees 2 realities when running to altair.
At the end of the day devs make things this way so people will want play 3rd game and find answers, nobody knows for sure what s going on
But after playing Ever Crisis it seems there will be some kind of Sephiroth redemption arc, they even link cutscene to Seph at EoC and in ome cutscene it s either he s having painful memory or Jenova headache, which can lead into more of watashi/ore Seph theory.
Now Seph red.arc can be something as messed up as him killing Rosen to save Glenn, Matt and Lucia.
And he allready has fixation with Cloud so i hope his vision isnt to kill everyone except Cloud but he s allready saying weird things like wants Cloud to burn the world like he did.
@@saulmiller422 Yes, Sephiroth could have a redemption arc. But the point of the video is to show he and Jenova had actual reasons why they were pissed off at the Cetra and Gaians. There is still the issue of the Gi being trapped, who Jenova looks for sure to be associated with. What do you expect Jenova and Sephiroth to do relating to them? Just ask pretty please?
We already see the Gaians lying about returning their Black Materia to them. Why would they want to be nice? They wouldn't necessarily. That's the main reason I expose Aerith's BS. If a "positive" result is going to happen, it will probably be the result of Sephiroth's work on Cloud, Rufus, and Zack.
I think Aerith at the end is Jenova. He can't accept her death. So they're gonna add her original death to lifestream section with tife which will break cloud even more. that empty materia is Cloud(since he's empty) so after accepting the fact that both Aerith and zack are death and he's not a soldier, that empty materia will become Cloud materia with a new color
Chinese is on the way. This is gona be a good watch…
Wait how do you know that this was 'all delusional' in relation to what Sephiroth originally worked out. Seohiroth in the very speech in the original demozies the Cetra... Then refers to himself as a decendent of the Ancients, this makes no sense. Unless you concede that an Ancient and Cetra are not one in the same... They were once, but set this path aside for a moment. Jenova is literally an Ancient. Sephiroth wasn't incorrect in what he said, he always knew what Jenova was in the original at least after travelling the Lifestream, yet his speech in the oroginal he actually knew more. Why would he berate the Cetra (who are too Ancients but strayed from their duties) and then be happy to be glorified as an Cetra/Ancient. This is because the two are not one in the same, not anymore at least. In the remake this has been redacted to some extent this realties version of Seohiroth does think that he is decended from the Cetra as such Jenova is in complete control, in the original he overtook Jenova's consciousness and controlled her with the knowledge of the Lifestream, which he still does retain, but onoy in liminal spaces of the lifestream. Jenova is now completely in control I think... until we see the real Sepbiroth, that only seems to appear in liminial spaces, where he has only spoken of assisting. When Aerith says, You're wrong you're all wrong. Necause that is not Sephiroth it's Jenova. Sephiroth has only been seen in the remakes twice when transported to the singularity. A version of this is warped by Aerith and only seen with light. Paired with what Sephiroth says both in the original and in the present Remake Trilogy isn't completely incorrect... That we know of. He says originally the Cetra would move in settle a planet then move on. However, Jenova is not referred to as a Cetra, but an Ancient as are the Cetra... Both are interchangeable with one another, as Jenova is an ancient, being seemingly unable to die no matter how many cycles the world has gone through. Jenova has persisted, the Cetra are an Ancient race, true. However, they did possibly forsake what their purpose was, whatever that may be, which I assume is to come build a world and move on. Instead the Cetra settled the planet becoming the dominant race for a while. Until Jenova lands to perhaps 'correct' that mistake hundreds of millenia ago. Sephiroth may have been the first to see this, the planet is trapped in a cycle, no matter what Jenova; it is still an Ancient, trapped. As are the memories and thoughts of all that are present in the Lifestream seemingly unable to move forwards. When what possibly 'should' occur is the energy being used to settle the next planet or part of it anyway, either way you can deduce that the Cetra did something wrong in their duties and Sephiroth worked this out. We know that the Cetra created materia. Magic, from the Lifestream... according to Shinra, however the Gi also have this ability, they mention that the Cetra are not what people think at all, not inherently pure as history has portrayed it anyway. The life that was originally supposed to be settled here may have been the Gi, however they were usurped by the Cetra. Then they're descendents, humanity, that were meant to travel in and leave... This could be Minerva as the original Ancient that came to Gaia. That OR (this is more likely) the Gi were or are a part of the Cycle that Jenova's purpose as an Ancient was, however she was disrupted from her own journey to intervene and 'fix' what the Cetra had done. She may have come first, making Sephiroth a decendent of the Ancients that gave life to the Gi. This may be why the Gi are trapped in the centre of the Planet similar to how Terra and Gaia work in FFIX. The cycle has been horrendously disrupted. The Gi are stuck in what is essentially a version of Hell, because of the Cetra's desire to settle. Sephiroth's plan wad to absorb the Lifestream and travel on, additionally the Weapon from Dierge's (Urgh) purpose is to do the same, we know weapons are the will of the planet. It may be proable that the Lifestream was supposed to be linear or cylical but with only one source of life. Which has been completely disrupted, resulting in an Ouroboros state for the planet and all involved. Trapping all in the planet including both humanity's conciousness, the Gi and the Cerra in a cyclical neverending dream. Remember in remake it is n9 longer the planet that screams other than fate and the noise of the weapons takes the place of Gaia from the original. I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here... I've only just got through 20% of this video. Anothet thing, Aerith's ability to pierce the entire perview of what is going on may be symbolic. Due to the fact that she is half Cetra and half human... She is literally half of the Ancient magick and knowledge of the planet and half the Scientific knowledge that led to Seohiroth's initial conception... Aerith is somewhat aware of the reality she's in and what's going on right up until she breaks fate, this is the same Aerith that gives Cloud the empty materia. Which Cloud could potentially use to create a somewhat 'true holy'. Which would need the memories of all, Gi included which may be why, she allows the Black Materia to remain in Cloud's pocket. Sorry I should wait but I need my notes! Issues are that Seohiroth knew of Jenova and Lucrecia in the original. However, the theory doesn't fall apart because of that. Seohiroth originally took over Jenova and controlled it. Which is why the he uses it's mimic abilities to show himself from the minute he took over Jenova's consciousness and escape the Shinra building. He then brings himself the Bpack Materia to become a living God. However, he may have been unaware that by overtaking Jenova's consciousness he already was one. What I think is happening here is that Seohiroth can see that Jenova is now the one in control in most realities. As the Lifestream is incapable of purging her, as we saw in Advent Children. As such, Seohiroth is doomed to be used over and over again. Or simply repeat his mistakes forever because with Jenova entangled in the Lifestream the planet just cannot die. It is trapped in a state of dreaming, although the state of dreams and reality are both aspects of one another so... Inconsequential really. As said by the woman in Cosmo Canyon if the Lifestream cannot distinguish dream from reality what does it matter both exist. Seohiroth is present in liminal spaces, he seems to want to absorb the memories or the Gi stored in the Black Materia... And likely holy to gain enough power to escape the same purgatory as the Gi and similarly the entire life of the planet is now stuck within. Aerith, by not trusting Sephiroth as you have pointed out is now just as bad as Jenova, or as each other. However, you haven't taken into account that after the Whipers surroded her in the Shinra HQ she lost her 'Omni' status and jit brcame another Aerith in that world essentially dying at the end of Remake. As for her and Jenova I don't even think you can blame them and was just either overthrown or came to correct the mistakes of Minerva (more likely the latter and being the mother of the Cetra) and the only true statement made by her is ironically when she is possessed. 'Nothing is forever'. Unless it's an Ouroboros and a constant state of Rebirth, however this ends up becoming earily similar to hell... If not one in the same. So, Sephiroth just wants to break the cycle. As said the planet needs to return to the singularity, where it will eventually undergo a Rebirth and the Ancients can continue their work of going Planet to Planet instilling life and letting it undergo it's own cycle. Not this hellscape Quantum entanglement that occured by mistake. Aerith in this theory really is her fathers daughter and essentially triggering the events over and over. The version of Sephiroth that appears with one Black wing in the Temple of the Ancients throws this all out slightly. It doesn't make much sense. Though it may be the only time that a Jenova/Sephiroth combination speaks with a Aerith/Minerva and when the initial meeting took place. If Cloud attacks or gives Sephiroth the Black Materia in the crater. He would be giving it to a metephorical version of either the games original... Or finally awale the true Sephiroth. Sephiroth was only seen twice in the original in the Crater and... Again in the Crater. Whether he plans to take that materia and use it to absorb a 3rd Meteor as we have seen he seems to be doing... Although given the purple hue this may more likepy be Jenova. With Seohiroth only being able to occupy the singularity or spaces between worlds, or versions that are under Jenova's control or still have Sephorpth's old mentality. There is so much more to this. Whoever said to send this to Maximillion Dood... No, he wouldn't understand it. Final Fantasy Peasant on the other hand would understand this on a much deeper level. As he understands the basis from which games are rooted within, such as the various religions for example Qabbala/Yggdasill, i.e. The tree of Sephiroth. Probably helping to reach a better conclusion than... The other one. I need to write more. This was so good, amazingly well done and thought out very well. I am exhausted and doneth. I shall return. Amazing video, your simplified version doesn't do this justice at all. Really stella work.
Sorry, here I am rambling incoherently here as I am writing it down as I go along. I feel . It is important, to an extent to write down for me to go over. These are just mad ramblings, until I can piece this together, I wouldn't have been able to do so without this video though! However, I'm not finished. This probably won't even make sense until I've finished and gone over it all. I will return to and continue adding to it.
I missed the part where the Cetra state that they were probably envied because of their Celestial advisary, which I'm guessing is Jenova for the Gi. However, Minerva was not meant to remain and allow the Cetra to dominate in such a way. Whilst she occupied the planet first, as true Ancients their job is to come, create life then continue on into the cosmos. Hence why Sephiroth calls the Cetra and their decendents traitors, as he is the only human aspect that was instilled with the Gi's human aspect in vitro. However, as Minerva remained and did not do this, as it had grown weary of travel the Cetra were given the ability to create magic from memory or perhaps were always meant to have this, since the Gi can do this too. Yet are supposed devolve into humanity or a lower life form. However, due to the emergence of Jenova whilst one Celestial still occupied the Planet. Possibly when a new lifecycle... NOT! A calamity from the skies, as described by the Cetra is supposed to take it's place akin to natural order, they become trapped within one anothers flow of life. With the life they were meant to have being granted seeded and then left to its own devices until time saw fit to Renew. Resulting in 3 genetically incompatible aspects populating Gaia, it would be four, but the Gi are trapped in a cycle of purgatory and thus cannot devolve from their closer to Godlike state. Allowing them to create the Black Materia for salvation and the Cetra to create Holy for theirs. However, as holy was there first it would perform it's funtion of a reset... In it's natural way similar to how Cetra and the Lifestream work. Whereas, Meteor is close to how Jenova works in their memories colliding with a planet and seeding Rebirth that way. Therefore, Sephiroth is potentially Gi/Jenova in a human devolved aspect can summon meteor and Aerith also being Minerva/Cetra's version can use Meteor. However, in the original they all just fuck up the planet and leave it in stasis because 'This isn't how it's supposed to be'. However! Cloud, Angeal, Gensis and Zack all possess all 4 aspects 6 if you include the Ancients that seeded them. As Soldiers are injected with Jenova Cells, they could create the necessary memories from all genetic ancestors... Though, you could argue Seohiroth could do this too. Aerith maybe gave the Clear Materia to Cloud on the hopes of this as it had once housed the memories of holy.
The Cetra are likely self-righteous since their Ancient deity still resides and thus believe themselves the natures intended 'stewards of the planet'. Leading to the Gi becoming 'bitter' since they were unable to rightfully claim the planet in the natural cycle as Minerva had grown weary of her journey... Though, her children that she gave life to had devilved to a point where they literally created an arms company that became the worlds Government that literally sucks the planet of its own lifeblood to survive and Jenova was supposed to do her duty in seeding the next stage of life. Gaia has just become a poor middle woman. Dreaming the dreams of it's dead trapped in a cruel never ending cycle of purgatory for all.
@@charliewild2367 I like how into it you are.
I think there is a misconception that a lot of people have, that Sephiroth in the original had understood Jenova was an alien and not a Cetra.
In the original flashback he says, "But, those who disliked the journey appeared. They stopped their migrations, built shelters and elected to lead an easier life.
They took that which the planet and the Cetra had made without giving back one whit in return!"
He did not say ALL Cetra neglected their duty. Only some of them. Those were supposedly Cloud's ancestors and the rest of the "humans." Originally, Sephiroth never understood Jenova was not actually a Cetra.
Sephiroth did not die when Cloud stabbed him. When he traveled the lifestream, he physically traveled it. It's doubtful the lifestream would have shown Sephiroth anything about the truth.
At the northern crater, it's only the top half of his body because Cloud stabbed him in the low back with his huge buster sword. He lost his legs on the way, which is why he had to stay in the Mako stasis.
We also know he physically traveled there, and not his spirit going through the lifestream, because in the beginning of AC the Turks find Jenova's head inside the northern crater.
He never "took control" of Jenova, indicated by his AC copies still being obsessed with finding "Mother" and crying over it. Hojo randomly says it at the NC in the original, but he doesn't really have a basis for it.
Sephiroth may have thought he was in control, but it was still largely Jenova manipulating him.
I dont know if it's right to say Aerith is contradicting herself by not forgiving Sephiroth. I also think forgiveness is also forgiving *yourself* because she and everyone else has something they probably need to forgive themselves for.
I've been thinking alot about this and wanted to add: Aerith isn't being hypocritical at all. On the beach she and at the nibelheim water tower she makes it out how bad she feels about the negative thoughts she's having. Which means she isn't saying any of this from a place of nievety, she wrestlers with these thoughts of anger, regret, and sadness too. But just because you're aware of them and know what you're supposed to do, doesn't make it easy to do. Changing is difficult and takes active work which is what she's clearly trying to do for herself even if she hasn't fully succeeded. But it's clearly not in her overall nature and beliefs to hate people. It's also not being intolerant to fear and be upset with someone who is currently causing mass malicious acts beyond the scope of the universe lol. Whether she's forgiven Sephiroth or not isn't what's being said. She may feel pity for him, she even asks him in the final fight of Rebirth if this is truly what he wants and tries to wrap her head around why he wants this and he refuses to answer his question. That doesn't sound like being intolerant.
Also "everyone lies"
1. Theres no such thing as forvever
We dont know exactly what that means but we do know that when she says that Aerith isnt fully herself. She speaks in two voices and a green aura is around her. Its likley her future self talking. You cant say shes lying when her past self is talking about her current beliefs about time. And honestly, the past is more or less forever. The past events only seem to be able to be changed to the extent Sephiroth can control Cloud which is only a few weeks before the games story begins. The stuff thats happened in their lives prior? Unchanged. Remake seems to have new events happen to the characters but the core events are the same. So this can't be a lie.
2. Tifa & Aeriths girltalk and post girltalk
Tifa is dealing with someone with a clearly delicate psyche. She knows something is wrong and doesnt know what it is. If youve ever been around someone in such a delicate sitiation, you DO need to be careful of what you say and do around them.
All Aerith did was try to check up on Cloud necause she knows he and Tifa are in a bad place. Thats omission, sure but its being done in empathy and the fact that Tifa told Aerith this stuff in confidence.
Lumping this into "everyone sucks" because theyre looking out for a mentally ill friend is kind of.... nuts.
BTW going to post this seperatley since people will probably not read the reply.
@SurAuvers I'm half way through the video and I agree honestly I feel that the video was disingenuous about aerith, to prove a point like some parts of her dialogue was cut out or was taken out of context to portray her as being manipulative but I believe that's not really the case and that she's human and she makes mistakes, her weaknesses which may not be obvious to others but is very well obvious to cloud is making her say things that are mean, but I believe it doesn't comes from a place of malice but of pain in which she herself criticized herself for
I really don't get the vibe from the Gi that they would destroy the world. While it's curious that the Gi say the materia existed but did not stir until they were alerted to it, I don't see a reason why they would want to destroy the planet unless it really was the only way to totally eradicate their lingering souls. And seeing cloud equip the materia to his sword at the end is really curious because I never thought about the black materia being equipped would do anything except, you know, cast meteor. But he doesn't slot it in, it's almost disappearing like holograms would
D3@th is freedom. Gaia acts as a Seal preventing the Gi from moving into freedom. Gaia being gone would allow for that.
So Aerith is end boss now?
Possibly part of the gamut of end bosses. There is probably something behind Aerith like Minerva or maybe something greater representing the Cetra.
Genesis for sure is going to appear and represent Minerva in p3.
The real villain was the friends we made along the way.
What is your hatred for Aerith coming from. Are you seeing her through clouded eyes? She knows the evil of Hojo. She does have compassion for the Turks, they have a shitty job and do bad things for the shitty job, so yeah they're complicit, but they are inherently evil people.
When Aerith was still young but living with Elmyra, Tseng looked after her. Whenever she was out and about in the slums, Tseng always watched out of sight, but she knew he was there. There is an unspoken bond between them.
Did you mean to say the Turks are not* inherently evil? Do you think Hojo is inherently evil? What does inherently evil even mean?
"It's their job" is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard. Hojo was hired by Shinra. He's doing his job too. Yeah, Hojo is doing some things on his own volition, but we have plenty of examples with former SOLDIERS and Reeves contradicting or defecting from Shinra.
Tseng is consistently shown to be a ridiculous person from when he tried backwards rationalizing dropping Sector 7 plate to when he asked the party to "take care of Aerith for me" as he threw a grenade into them.
But to answer your question, I'm very familiar with this kind of excuse making. I know where Sephiroth is coming from. I understand his, Jenova's and the Gi's conclusion to punish Gaia and the Cetra, including Aerith.
A lot of why I made this theory is because I understand what they are setting up here. Exactly how bad or how much of a problem they make Aerith out to be in part 3, we'll see. I'm very interested in how they'll handle this, and I am showing other people like you the patterns and mechanics of the developers' and Sephiroth's strategy.
I always wonder why Cloud is special, why was he able to defeat sephiroth, why he is also able to see the fissure in the sky now. why can he still see aerith. My theory is that Cloud is also decend of cetra knight, it whould explain why he can see life stream persons. He is basically a cetra with jenova cells What do you guys think?
Getting real tired of overly long video essay slop, but this one probably takes the cake. Incessant long clips breaking the pace despite acknowledging people watching are familiar with theories and therefore the story, weird to follow structure, couldn't pass the 1h10 hour mark and still didn't feel like an overall point was made. Script needed more drafts, and editing more time in the oven to support the script and not mess with the pace. Long ≠ good.
I did make a 12 minute summary version you can watch. th-cam.com/video/D9u6VKyWWTI/w-d-xo.html
I did notice after watching it myself I could have cut it down a bit, but this video was largely about providing as much evidence for the theory as I could while keeping it concise.
1h10m was just before some of the major points come up. Maybe you're just not hard enough. I'd watch the summary.
Not too much on my sweet girl Aerith... Not too much
I am now 33 and a half minutes in. Sephiroth is a good guy now? Is that where this is going? Jenov is the enemy. Thats jenova aerith in rebirth end. In the fight in that... liminal (sounds right?) space too maybe. Sephiroth is doing his best to get cloud to see that jenova is in control
Wait... At the aerith is and isn't dead scene... That's a different Sephiroth. We're seeing the good one I think. The Sephiroth in that white space with the lore dump after the church... That's the one from the end of remake. That's the good one.
"with their old world destroyed, will they thank you for their new one?" The president asked that. Sephiroth wants to destroy Gaia with meteor to free the gi and jenova from their immortality, and I think the people can make a new home on meteor? Maybe it's been waiting for life? Or it will absorb the lifestream and become habitable for everyone? 46 minutes in this is crazy
You literally said you assume I have familiarity with the theories, I have like none. I've heard people say that it's ac seph, but I'm not great at art interpretation, so I didn't know the depth of ac ending. I feel like I'm catching up though
You're insane you're insane you're insane but I like it wtf. Almost there. Wtf. Third game we go in the lifestream to heal aeriths cetra supremacy? Oh my gooood this is great
It's not so much that Sephiroth is a good guy, but that there is a struggle over the idea of what is good or bad.
Yeah, I think Seph is training Cloud and Rufus to be able to shrug off Jenova's control. He wants them to be able to make their own decisions, because he knows he himself was manipulated and lied to in the original.
While some things like the Shadow Flare comments are certainly way too much of a stretch, the vast majority of what you say here actually sounds really on point and logical, even if I don't actually believe all of it and could argue various parts pretty conclusively, I feel, but not here. If nothing else, this gives a new dimension to how I, at least, think about what's happened and coming...
By the way, the place where aerith and cloud shopped was not seen anywhere else in the game, that's why elmyra didn't stop her...check the dogs.
Kadaj...Geostigma...came...from the lifestream...Jenova is purple and can infect the lifestream, hence Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children...Jenova, the purple, is a way for the Gi to join the lifestream, perhaps...to change it...maybe!
Why is the Shadow Flare comment a stretch? What do you think about he background of the Saphir Seph fight looking like a "Clouded eye seeing nothing but shadow?"
Yeah, I think Elmyra didn't stop her because Aerith decided to wake up in an alternate world "that has accepted its fate." Elmyra, Marlene and Zack were pretty clearly in a world where people were fretting about the tear in the sky.
The Gi and Sephiroth are not working together. The Gi want death and they created the black materia/meteor to annihilate themselves without any thought for the planet or other life on Gaia so the Cetra stole it and Seto reneged on his promise to the Gi once he realised that. Sephiroth's goal to wound the planet is just coincednetal.
You can do better than that. WHY?
Have you heard of the Universe of D32th? did you see the part where the Gi seem to worship JENOVA, bringer of D3@th, that they seek? They worship what JENOVAROTH is made of. So, of course, Sephiroth would work with the Gi (and vice versa), his body contains JENOVA.
No no no, okay, no you can't say Aerith's forgiveness is selective. No. Hojo killed her Mom. That is an exception and there's no argument or debate. This is your only point that is not valid.
other than that, masterpiece. Thank you.
I mean, yeah, but when Aerith talks about forgiveness, and not hating Tseng, Tifa and Barrett lost many of their friends, who were basically their family since they had no blood family left. Sephiroth also killed Tifa's dad. Sephiroth killed Cloud's mom. It's not like Aerith didn't know that when she made that speech.
Shinra killed tens of thousands of peoples' parents and children with the Sector 7 plate drop. At minimum, her hating Sephiroth but not Tseng shows she has an extreme lack of empathy and/or an extreme double standard.
Opening mah eyesssss man
This was really well done, however I will say that you made Aerith sound like a moron, which is kinda messed up xD
Hahaha! Yeah I think that's kind of the point. The developers seem to be doing that themselves. I didn't put it in this video, but the first time Cloud meets Aerith, she says, "No one is going to attack you. I promise." And almost immediately after Cloud gets attacked by 5 Shinra militia.
Yuffie asks Aerith what she learned in Midgar. She says, "Enough," then starts mimicking Yuffie in her cheer to have the plane come like it's actually supposed to do something.
She says she "puts her foot in her mouth again" when she tells Cloud to not look up on their dream date.
Go play Rebirth. You should’ve played it before doing this video
I spoiled Remake before playing it and it was still great. But yeah, part 3 I'm probably going to want to play first. I was able to put this theory together probably because I wasn't spending the 100+ hours actually playing the game.
Wym by that? Can you explain?
@@Valentien23 I haven't owned a Playstation after PS2. It took a lot of time figuring out, writing out, and pieces the theory video together.
I think I was able to notice more clues by just watching other people play than if I was in the middle of playing it myself, having to consider all the other gameplay elements.
@@VicM88 sorry for the confusion; I need. The OP to explain their statement; I can understand yours
Not a big fan of theories and I hate them with a passion, it discourages me from playing and completing the game if everybody is throwing their two cents to try make efn sense of wtf is happening in this convoluted fan fict trilogy.
If part 3 is called any of the following such as, Retribution, Requiem, Redemption, Reboot or Reborn, then I know that certain content creators have had some influrence on Square Enix decision making and direction of the trilogy, and the ending.
Only thing we're all certain of is that they are changing certain events that occurred in the original and the original spinoff titles from happening, and it was pretty much obvious from the start of Remake that Cloud is the key to either the success of either Aerith or Sephiroth, who wins?
Cloud choice or rather the players, as the trilogy reeks of multiple endings, not one ending will be the end conclusion, because we now have bubble universes bs! and that opens the door for Square Enix to milk FFVII franchise for the forceable future.
What bubble universe will we be playing in the next expansion to the FFVII franchise.
I can't wait to play it on the PS6.
It more surprises me how few people got this. Aerith being someone else at the end just seems so obvious
Here I thought I would enjoy the games not playing the original… curse young me for being too dumb to finish it!
Jesus Christ get some healing bro your contempt for aerith is palpable 😔
"1:45" - "i have not played rebirth". I stopped watching right there.
Don't make an assumption. You're making a horrible decision
Ads on ads on ads. I hope you’re getting paid
No I don't have any control of monetization or get anything from ads playing. This video also seems to have minor copyright claims because of the few Advent Children clips in it.
Apparently, I'd need 1000 subscribers first.
@ that sucks. You certainly deserve to get paid. I just subscribed. Hopefully you make it to over 1000 soon.
Yeah i need ALL that; fk a summary :)
Hahaha! True
“I have not played Rebirth” not a great start buddy
Ironically, it's probably the best start. One of the reasons why I was able to fit everything together so well. I didn't have to invest a lot of time in other aspects of the game and could focus on the story and clues.
Don’t need to have played the game to know the lore. 😅
Bro ply the game. Video is cool but just play it 😅😅
Yeah I never got a PS after 2. When it comes out on PC I'll get it.
too convoluted
If it's too much for you to handle, you can watch a 12 minute summary version: th-cam.com/video/D9u6VKyWWTI/w-d-xo.html
This the type of ff7 content I been feigning for 😭😭🫶🏾