I built a storm xman deck built around land destruction and I played it once. Everyone at my lgs who normally says "anything goes" targeted me in every subsequent game. I learned a lesson
That’s not a bad thing imo if your deck is known to be a threat you shouldn’t feel like you shouldn’t play it but should be prepared to get absolutely targeted from the beginning of the game.
Part of the problem people have with Storm or control decks is how shitty their pilots are. It's easy to make 10 game actions take less that 2 minutes if you're not bad at the game.
I do agree. I have a combo deck that can storm out. Doesn't include any storm cards. It is a Boros Eggs deck with so many triggers. However I got really good at running the deck fairly quickly. I have one combo that takes the slower route, however the other combos are so much quicker.
I have to agree. Play Storm of you want, but you HAVE to be able to explain what you are doing clearly and quickly, and know where you are going with. If you can't, your turns are gonna be a lot longer than any other player at the table, and that general boredom is where I draw the line and start targeting you. I wanna play, not come see you play solitaire.
@@KH-tu3no But they have to learn it one way or another. They can sit and go through some of their intended combos on their own for SOME practice, but it's only gonna take them so far. For them to learn and be able to go through the process faster, they need the actual experience by playing it in real games, and that means they will be slow in the beginning while they're still learning. You obviously don't have to sit down and watch through their turn, and they aren't entitled to your time for them to learn. But you also don't get to complain about them not being fast enough if you don't allow them the opportunity to learn and get faster. *"You can't have your cake and eat it too"* as they say
This is what it feels like to me as a new player. My first idea was a discard deck, i was told that wasnt fun. Then I wanted to go for blue white flyers and was told flying isnt fun. Then I wanted to do green ramp and was told that ramp is OP in a 4 player format with 40hp. Lol
If y'all even get to play against these, you're better off than me. My primary complaint for the past 12 years now is that I still don't have anyone to play with.
@@urick15battle cruiser refers to decks that are basically tailored towards longer games. You build a deck to survive the early game in wait to get your big unstoppable creatures out late game and become a giant threat out of nowhere. Its different than a big dumb creatures Timmy deck because its focused on dragging out the game till they can overwhelm on one or two big turns. A lot of players get annoyed when a game runs north of an hour and a half, and a lot of battlecruiser decks will draw games out to that point regularly.
I’d far prefer to deal with a battlecruiser than a win-from-hand Combo deck, or low-CMC Commander that’s half an infinite that’ll close out the game in 3-4 turns. *Especially* when the players of such decks always get petulant when you come after them hardcore ASAP. You play a Vito “I’m Hunting my Exquisite Blood Effect w/ Multiple Tutor-Effects” deck, you should expect every attack 3 players can launch to come your way. Additionally, if you play a Wincon that can only be interacted with by counter-magic, you should sit down with the expectation that anyone not playing Blue is going to do the only thing they can and try to utilize player-removal before you can pop off. It honestly baffles me when people brew these decks they know are going to create play-conditions the rest of the table will dislike, only to be shocked and dismayed when the table decides to clean up the problem by knocking out the, say, dedicated Stax pilot, before getting back to the game they wanted to play to begin with.
@Shawn-f3x I'm not sure why people would be surprised about if they're the threat being targeted. Though in the group I'm in a common phrase is that the most effective form of removal is player removal.
I love horrible, salt-inducing mechanics like stax, discard, and infect, but my secret is that I love seeing everybody else's Horrible Thing too. I absolutely want to see your explosive Izzet storm deck, or your poison/proliferate deck, or your thing that wins with Thassa's Oracle/Lab Maniac/Jace despite being casual, or whatever other degenerate gameplan you're going to throw at the table. You're giving me inspiration.
100% agree. It does require pre-game conversation; my dumbass bushido-tribal that wraths your board if you block my 10/10 (kusari-gama is a weird card) might not stand up to your Thoracle deck or Stax deck, but my Oona+Painter deck might. Let's have the conversation so we can all play our bullshit in an actual game (or more likely a set of games), rather than one person pub stomping.
I can’t imagine telling someone no I won’t play with you because you brought “x” strat/deck instead of just switching my deck and worst comes to worst just convincing the other two players to play some archenemy.
Umm, you know some of us only have one deck at a time, because it’s far more affordable to gut one deck for stuff going in the next, right? I don’t buy any cards I can’t envision a home for in 2-3 decks I want to play beyond the one I’m building ATM, and I certainly can’t afford to replicate the kind of mana base you need to keep up with people at the LGS. Hell, I’m still working on getting the White Black and Green Black lands to add Black to my repertoire of Green and White.
@ proxy the cards you own dont most game stores ive played atdon’t care if you proxy as long as you own the card. And im gunna be honest i dont think I know anyone that doesn’t own at least 2 decks considering how available precons are nowadays.
@@FatstaxMTG at least it sounds like you’re open to playing as the Arch. A fair amount of “high power” casual players I know would benefit from that mindset. Granted some of the “I won’t play against x” comes from how they were treated by that decks pilot. I had a cEDH regular who’d regularly pull his punches if he was having fun with a group, and I’ve watched some other punk get his teeth handed to him behind the shop because he was running the turd of fright and mocking players as they tried to stop the deck and couldn’t. Some people just seem to forget the first rule of play, don’t be a dick.
@@FatstaxMTG I’m essentially reliant on my LGS for 90% of my games, and *no one* there plays anything but 8.5/9s. New players with Precons are actually given 200+$ of cards at a time to upgrade, rather than anyone building anything lower power. I could probably put a second deck together at this point, but it would be a shadow of my primary deck, which is always worth 600$+ due to Good Stuff accretion.
@@JohnTalbane87 yeah I will say no to a player 100% some people are terrible to play with. I will be the first to admit I’m a bit of a power player and try to be transparent about being the problem when I am and kind of enjoy being a bit if the target because usually I do loose but leave a mark on the table.
@@Yourbeautiful666 I mean, like I told someone else, Wincons that require counter-magic to stop are never going to be fun to face for non-Blue decks, and some strats are just punishingly unfun to play against with enough $$ behind them. I know a guy with a theft deck that’ll put something as bad as a Roil Elemental on the board T2-3, then dupe it 1-2, almost as a sideline to his main strategy, with the main one pretty much always Hexproof somehow. Helps to be packing a full Fast Mana package. Win From Hand Combo decks, OTOH, are just Solitaire you insist on an audience for. Least IMO.
@ Fun is subjective. Most of the player base currently plays with proxies as well, so money isn’t as big of an issue as if once was, when people actually bought cards. There are ways to stop these win cons in every color now days. Some just require more hoops. And a win con from the hand can take a while to complete, but as long as it ends the game, you can just play another one. I’d much rather play against that than a simic value deck or a mono green ramp deck that takes a long time doing a lot of nonsense just to pass the turn.
@@Yourbeautiful666 This is one of my games last WPN FNM. T1: Shocked in Overgrown Tomb, Sol Ring, pass. T2: G/B Battle Land, Crypt Ghast, pass. T3: Crypt Ghast destroyed via Generous Gift during upkeep, Swamp, Crypt Ghast returned for 1B, -4 life, Vito From CZ, Exquisite Blood. Exquisite Blood gets Naturalized on Sight. T4, Swamp, Enduring Tenacity comes down, Crypt Ghast swings on open opponent, game. Game 2 spooled out to a whole 5 turns, because Vito and the Tutored Enduring Tenacity were destroyed together, before a timely Dark Ritual helped pay off bringing Vito back as the other LEGO clicked into place. And then the Vito pilot got unhappy, because out of the 4 active pods present, no one was up for another round of that. When FNM doesn’t fire until 6:30pm at a store closing at 10pm, players (In MY experience) get testy about games that eat up 35-40 mins with an extremely high likelihood to be near-exact reruns of an optimized Combo deck’s couple of hyper-linear lines. You see Chulane abuse an Intruder Alarm once, you’ve seen absolutely everything the Bant LEGO-clicker has to offer the table, at the cost of 1/4th to 1/6th of all the play time 3 people might have for a week.
My favorite thing about Ms. Bumbleflower is that if I win it's because your deck is just bad. You're drawing a bunch of cards. Granted, I'm abusing the fact that you are drawing cards off me, but I'm giving you card advantage and you aren't getting an out. And people have gotten salty at me when I play it. That's on you, dude.
unless you also load the dexk up with cards that say "opponents cannot cast spells during your turn" then its more of wishing you could play said response but its too late. kutzil, myrel, grand abolisher to name the 3 in my deck i run.
I learned the hard way early on that it's the opposite. Make my reasonably costed removal cost six more while resources are tapped down and creatures are impossible to keep on the table? There's someone here who would love interaction, and it's me not the stax player.
I let players in my group know how I feel about whatever playstyle. I'm cool with people playing it, so long as they understand it may mean they get my attention early and often. That said, we have one dude who proxies cards and built a mill/infect/stax deck. Thankfully, it can be very slow- since there's no real focus- and easy to deal with by attacking with an aggressive and evasive commander. 21 damage can be faster than 10 poison counters or milling 90 cards.
yeah, Mill is not a good win strat and while it's salt is overrated, the biggest thing people need to remember is this: while they're spending mana making you mill cards, they're not spending mana on creatures to stop you from stomping their face. They have a mill deck? you have creatures you all can swing at them to smush them into the ground. And you should. Of all the ones here, it's the only one that's easy to beat with the bog standard approach of "just beat them up like the salty whiny nerd they are".
I love commander as a format but stuff like this makes me crazy. Playing interaction in your deck is a rememdy to much of what is described in this video.
Just played against my friends storm deck. When he was loading up for his 4th extra turn, half the table concided. It's like the longest form of infinite.
My playgroup is gun because we allow basically anything as long as you are chill and know how to handle your deck (with reservations for learning a new deck of course). We want to see what the others decks can do together.😁 Someone plays poison, another voltron, then mill, or maybe rakfos groupslug and so on.
Proliferater here, I HATE taking out one person early.. I spread the (poison) love, and proliferate.. ending the game with Planewide Celebration and a sarcastic "yay!" but most of the time I drop two people and gift the last person with the Caress of Phyrexia. /love
well it really depends on the pods, i have a group which literally complains about anything that i play just because i win before (not often did I win though). there's also a group which is cool and being fair to everyone when we play despite winning or losing.
If I’m playing a deck that can utilize my Graveyard, and/or has a good amount of recursion for the most important cards in my deck then I like seeing certain Mill Commanders in the pod. I’ve had so many games with my Narset Prowess deck where I won because the Mill deck Milled me into my Win Conditions. The only big combos I run in the deck are with Isochron Scepter, and Sensei’s Divining Top for repeated Prowess Triggers to One Shot opponents with Unblockable creatures. I did specifically avoid adding any Extra Combats and/or Extra Turns because they would be too easy to abuse. I want High Power (Bracket 4), not full on CEDH.
The problem with a lot of these strategies is that they're not really interactable and/or you have to have/build around somebody else's deck to be able to, you know, *actually play.* Graveyard decks *love* mill; counterspell tribal and stax are counterstrategies to the storm player; you can play something like Melira anytime somebody brings out their toxic/infect deck; etcetera. But not eveybody wants to build decks specifically to counter one person, and even you do that player tends to get *real* salty about it.
The video is about magic players liking playing the game. Remember, there are four players, not one player and an audience. Everyone can play unfun, nasty decks, most people choose not to, because they just aren't fun. Definitely not fun for 3 people, but not even fun for the person playing those decks
When I was running OG Atraxa I would always get asked if it was an infect deck, to which I'd say just 1 card. Triumph of the horde, and I only play it if I'm sure the attack would end the game for everyone so we could start a new game. I don't care for the 10 poison rule in EDH, but it's a good game ender if that's what it is. If it only takes out 1 person, the feel bads hit hard on that one. I ended up dismantling the deck but not because of how other's felt playing it. It WAS annoying hearing 1 or 2 people gripe about the lifelink one game, or DT another, or proliferate in another game haha, but the reason I dismantled it was because someone played From the Ashes on me and it completely killed my game. The land package in a 4 color deck is hard enough to get right and working well, without spending $300-400 on it anyway, so there's always a shortage of basics. The few basics I had in it, were in the GY already due to them being milled out. So the 2, 2 colored players were able to get their lands back while I was essentially Armageddon'ed. Was not a fun game to try to scrape back in. Was a miserable experience and that night I took it apart and haven't built another 4+ color deck since unless it was something where the MC were hybrids or cards where the cost to get out is a couple colors but the rest is in the identity like Samut or Kenrith (just as an example, Ive never played Kenrith). Definitely one of those games where I learned something.
I can understand why Mill decks can be a problem. As a newer player, I only have two decks (both of which are precons with some light upgrades), and both of them are pretty reliant on artifact cards. Because I don't have a lot of cards that return artifacts from my graveyard or from exile, and since most of my creatures are low power with low mana costs, being milled out usually ends games quite early for me.
Seems like an awesome experience. You learned a specific weakness of your deck and must have thought of how to shore up that aspect. I'd love to learn what you changed/added to your deck.
There is no difference from a mill deck placing your card in the graveyard and a deck placing that card on the bottom of your deck in the "you will never touch these cards" part of the deck. You have 99 cards in your deck. You're likely not touching 99 cards.
Im a returning player. Ive got 2 decks a precon and a mill deck. Honestly my precon wins more often than my mill deck. Ive found that in a 4 person match, becoming public enemy number 1 will make the decks that are weaker end up winning.
@@GerBessa I wish the majority of my pod thought this way... my favorite part of Magic is that it can be ever-changing; decks, playstyles, interaction, all are lessons to learn and grow from.
My only combo deck is a Vhal, Candlekeep Researcher (paired with Clan Crafter Background) and it does run 3 tutors, Moonsilver Key, Reshape, and Fabricate, but the combos all require 3+ cards to win not including my commander, so I think it's more fair. The goal of the deck is to make Vhal's butt bigger with cards like Slagwurm Armor or Kite Shield, find ways to untap her with cards like Singing Bell Strike or Pemmin's Aura, and then typically I have to find a way to filter the mana to make it usable with cards like Prismite or Energy Refractor, and then I find one of my 13 really fun but weird cards to win the game all at once. Cards such as Screaming Shield, Cogwork Assembler, Rocket Launcher, or my personal favorite Goblin Cannon. Typically takes 3-4 pieces plus my commander to win. It's also a budget+ deck, sitting at just $80. Still expensive for this channel, but still kinda cheap for most Magic Decks. Also, anyone who compalins about Mill will fall on deaf ears with me. Mill is cool, not super strong, and not stopping your from playing the game. It doesn't interact with anything on your board or in your hand, or make it so you can't cast cards. All it does is put a timer on the deck (and also help the graveyard decks, oops). If your deck doesn't have consistency, then well that's more a problem with your deckbuilding than anything. Not saying there aren't decks out there that rely on some wack combo, like 98 land decks that fetch just a single card, but still. Mill is like the fair version of discard decks.
My so far only deck is Oskar Artifacts. Outside of Windfall and Geier Reach Sanitarium, I'm the only one discarding, but I could still try a 20 minute combo that leads to nothing but a ton of artifacts and some zombie tokens if I wanted to. I make sure to not try to combo off unless I can win pretty quickly, partly because I didn't want to take up that much time, and partly because if I don't win after that, I'll probably eat a board wipe and have no follow up.
If anyone complains about my deck I’m only encouraged to play it more. Essentially, “fuck you for trying to make me feel bad for playing what I want to play.” is my motto when it comes to MTG, Especially commander. The game is too expensive for certain playstyles to be looked down upon. Play what you want to play.
I play a storm deck at my LGS, It is reserved for the high power casual tables where everyone is in agreement that its true free-for-all. Its also a straight forward storm line that cannot fail to finish the game and the whole line can be shortcut'd. Its failure point is also the first cast of the card I storm off with so its easy to spot although slightly harder to interact with. Although its recently been tweaked to be a combo deck that has an optional storm finish. I also have plenty of combo decks as its the only way to end the game efficiently. I find that people getting knocked out first then gets stuck waiting for over an hour for the game to end because the person who knocked them out gets their threats taken out and the game drags on for another 2 hour to feel worse than losing to a combo that takes everyone out. I've been on the receiving end of the "Knocked out first then wait for 2-3 hours for the next game" situation too many times to count. I also play land destruction, but its designed to be a wincon and not just throw it out there for the sake of land destruction. When I destroy lands, its all of them (sometimes my own included) and keeps them off the field from that point on. At which point, I'll always be in an advantageous state with minimal chances for my opponents to make a comeback. Also have a mill deck. Its been shelved due to some people (more like a single person) at my LGS who hate mill with a loud passion. I'd rather not listen to their ranting when we sit in the same pod and they get a single card milled (I also try to make it a point of not sitting in the same pod as them).
I play a Mogis resource denial/land destruction deck. It uses lots of Enchantments with recurring damage triggers. Ideally I make Mogis a creature using his Devotion mechanic via the Enchantments I've played & then play Jokulhaups. Indestructible Commander + Enchantments left alone is usually a win con. Also, playing Tainted Aether on Turn 2 might make people unhappy. I've been told that when I play this deck I am the target.
How to beat somebody trying to win: interaction. Thing that everyone hates: interaction. In a multiplayer game. EDH's problem is misunderstanding 'casual' to the point of baby-ing people who whine about interaction.
I may be an anomaly in the mtg player base, but i don't care what archetype you bring to the table. If you storm out your deck, i get excited cuz i'm happy for you your deck is doing stuff and i'm curious on how you played it out and how you got to this stage. No matter the archetype, people are gonna complain. I've had people complaining to me for winning a game with Rin and Seri turn 10 cuz they didn't consider this commander to be a 6 at a power 6 table. The player skill has more impact than the quality of your cards.
I play mono green storm with Aeve, Progenitor Ooze. Can the turns take a bit, sure I rightfully admit so. But when someone says it’s problematic that I can pop out 10 copies of a commander with no evasion and no other abilities I’m left scratching my head. It’s a good amount of damage but one board wipe and I’m cooked since most of my combo pieces are creature/land untaps, all facilitated through creature abilities and some cantrips. The pitfall of mono green storm compared to other colors is if you don’t have the creatures, you REALLY aren’t storming off.
I build some interactive decks that function well. I get target often and expect that I'll be targeted so i build my decks like every game is a 3v1. I run a larger protection/interaction package than most people. Magic players cry when u don't let them touch their cards. We're a sensitive bunch
My LGS isn't too against these deck types however if I want to use an infinite combo like Shalai and Hallar and The Red Terror, I have to wait until everyone has had their turn 5 before I can use the combo.
I am a girl who LOVES my Miirym deck and I can storm off once I have a large board presence and pull one particularly card but when I pull that card I usually go “I can win here and now but I will hold the card until everyone agrees to end the game”
My favorite deck when I played unlimited with friends back in the day, waaaaaaaaaaaay before I got into commander, was a gruul stompy deck that ran Myojin of infinite rage. I would throw down a bunch of dorks, and then drop Myojin and blow up the lands. It was fun, but we were also young. I play exactly ONE wheel in all my commander decks. Just a single wheel of misfortune in my b/r Mishra, claimed by gix deck.
If someone could build an app, or modify an existing service so you can put four lists in and it lets you know if they are at a similar level, oh man, that would be great. Basically taking all these themes and finding a means to quantify them. Each would be on a slider of 1-10, and the total would be the power level. Because some decks are Mill lvl 1, and others are Mill lvl 10, and any deck that reaches a score of 8-10 in any theme would be a flag on the deck. Other values would be speed, cost $, curve, ramp, tutor/cherry picking, etc.
We have a mill sympathizer over here. All jokes aside, I see your point. I am an infect enjoyer myself. Despite common beliefs about it, I enjoy finding ways to make infect feel like a fair boss fight, instead of a wall hacking assassin.
My only problem with mill are the mill decks that are built to increase how many cards you have so mill each turn. I've had to mill 40 cards once time and it increased each turn.
Yeah...based on a lot of the comments here, I don't think I'd want to play with most folks I'd find at the LGS. I just started playing MTGA and was considering transitioning to paper. But way too many people seem to enjoy intentionally making other people miserable, or simply fail to comprehend the simple truth that people want to have fun while playing a game. If what you're doing is only fun for you, then folks will naturally choose to spend their free time doing something else. Alas, I don't have three other friends to play with at the moment, but it seems like the odds are I'd end up bored and leaving the game early. At least online, I can concede quickly and efficiently once I realize I'm playing against someone who wants to win without me playing.
@schwaaard I get that. What i mean by we only play together is that we actually do play with things people don't like. We use land hate, stax, extra turns, etc. But we don't want to subject others to that.
Mill is basically Wheel light. Cards go from library to grave. Or cards go from Library to hand to grave. Mill doesn't feel as bad as wheel, as you can form a plan with the cards in your hand and draw. So not as disrupting as wheel but basically a similar thing. I'd rather play mill than wheel. I like to play recursion against mill or wheel. hehehehe
The TL:DR version is that every play style is problematic. It's almost like casual players don't understand what threat assessment and interaction is.... I recently finished building Herigast the Nullkite. The deck is clunky still as I slowly work on it. But it's cool. Big stompy creatures. The problem is that I am avoiding any Eldrazi with the annihilator ability because that is too salt inducing. I also know this deck will NEVER cut it in cEDH. EVER. So I'm stuck. I'd LIKE to play the meanest Eldrazi, but I had to make a trade off. I can rarely play what I want to play because everything is salty. My Indominus Rex Alpha deck is salty because it's too hard to remove her from the battlefield. My Master of Keys deck is salty because graveyard recurrtion is annoying to deal with. My Slimefoot and Squee deck is salty because the deck can win without interacting with the opponent's board state. Videos like this one prove that casual commander was a mistake.
The only two things I hate is someone taking 5 minutes to only end up making infinite "stuff" and winning and the other is getting hit with counter spells or something like that back to back to back
With Stella Lee, if I am playing a storm deck and have cast 3 spells, and I cast a spell with storm, then copy it with Stella’s ability, how many times does the spell get copied?
Mass land destruction is no fun, but Zo-Zu is such a fun commander. I love making everyone consider their game actions carefully by placing a downside on everything.
Combos aren't a big deal in a 100 card format unless they're your commander or tutored. Discard isn't a problem. Stax isn't a problem. You should have answers in your deck for your opps. Storm can be a problem if they're clueless and slow, but is fine if they know how to play. Mass land destruction is really the only no no because its such a common rule 0 that most don't build for it.
Oddly enough one of the most hated decks I play was not even covered here, Merieke Ri Berit. Apparently people don’t like it when you pay their creatures against them.
So how exactly are you supposed to play, im brand new to paper magic and I'm trying to build my first deck and literally everything game/deck that i watch on TH-cam is basically one of these playstyles.
I pulled Niv-Mizzet, but I'm a D tier player at best. you'll probably take a few burns and I'll pull some combos but a few negates and removals turn my deck off if I'm not also pulling into my negates
I don't play any of the decks styles in this video, but I don't really get the argument of some cards aren't alright to play. The mentality of "I'm going to get up from the table" just because you don't like what someone else is playing seems so childish.
The only thing that kinda pisses me off that ive ran across are the infinite combos that just auto win the game. Once we start getting there it might as well just be a cedh pod and not casual.
I dont know if id say all these are "effective" when in higher play. I know uou said this was for casual but like you say casual has different goals but if thats the case these fall out of "effective" range
My God, all the griping about Poison. It's a playstyle. Plus, not every deck has to be an automatic salt mine. Take Ixhel as a commander. Toxic is far less aggressive than Infect, she only deals 2 but requires 3 to benefit from Corrupted, you lose blue when compared to Atraxa, and you can specifically kit out your deck to make it less of a hassle through your choice of creature inclusions. Why would that need to draw the ire of everybody on sight? It's just stupid.
Who cares honestly. I dont make decks to please people or try to help their feelings. I make them for my enjoyment and to be atleast a threat if not the only threat during the game.
The only time i don't like playing against any type of play style is when they don't have a win con. Like if you play MLD and your game plan after dropping an Armageddon is to just draw one card, play one land, and durdle like the rest of us for the next 3 turns, I'll probably get annoyed. Same with stax, if you lock everyone out of the game I'd prefer you have a clear strategy for winning that doesn't involve boring everyone to the point of scooping.
My opponents fun is not my responsibility. What if I don't get to play a whole lot? What if when I do get to play I want to play What I want to play? What about my fun?
Poison is just a dumb mechanic, however I can’t stand any strategy that causes turns to take forever. I would rather play against stax than someone who plays 10 minute solitaire every turn
I love poison and its associated mechanics -- and proliferate is my favorite mechanic in the game -- but a lot of that is due to the thematic/Vorthos side of things. If it wasn't so strongly associated with "mad science" and New Phyrexia, I probably wouldn't like it as much. I'm a biomedical engineer, and I love being able to go "that's a thing that I understand!", especially in the fantasy genre where you normally wouldn't expect a lot of these science fiction elements.
I am not a huge fan of mill and tend to avoid versing it. I do not heavily hate it though. THe only time I will admit I get salty with mill is when its combined with thief effect and they are stealing what they are milling from me. I hate losing to my own cards in general. Only other time I get lightly salty is when I lose lands and such i need due to the mill.
I would say Mill only when it uses a bullshit combo. My brother is a Yugioh player and likes to exploit the fun out of things, his magic deck for Mill was really ensuring that you lose half your deck in a few turns.
I feel salt control decks are very toxic in the commander community … I know players that have decks that specifically counter specific gameplay and based on what they play that game they’ll switch decks just to specifically counter it.. I just feel that maybe control is necessary to make a game more manageable for some players and keep top decks in check but if it becomes too toxic to a point where players no longer have fun I feel it’s a bigger hindrance to a game but that’s just my opinion. Play what you like and enjoy the game but maybe not at the expense of other players 🥰
My friend built a Grand Arbiter stax deck as his first ever commander deck. After one game he decided to change it for... a storm deck who was even worse. After that he made an otter deck that's ok. But those first 2 were awful.
I have exactly two decks that arent just "turn shit sideways the deck". One is a stella lee storm deck with tons of infinites, and the other is the 20 ways to win precon. Ultimately im an aggro player and i like to hit people in the mouth lol.
The problem is commander is a casual game, it's about the journey, not the destination. It's also meant to be fun for everyone, not just 1 person. If someone wants to play unfun decks, or "it's not a cedh deck it's missing one card" decks, they need to let everyone else know so all four players can be at the level. It's kind of sad when someone is so desperate to "win" in a meaningless, casual format they bring unfun/competitive decks knowing their opponents won't be playing the same level.
See, the way I do it is that I build and play in a very Spiky way, but I'm also very honest about what I'm playing. I will gladly tell you how that deck helmed by a weird precon commander is in fact a "highly upgraded" precon with all kinds of nasty shit in it, or warn you about salt-inducing cards if you ask about them. I will also always, always encourage my opponents to do the mean thing if it's the most effective choice for their gameplan. I am doing my best to win, no matter what, and I outright expect everybody else to do the same thing. I remember once playing against a deck that won by repeatedly killing Yosei, the Morning Star to tap down everyone's board over and over, and I outright encouraged them to keep Yosei in the deck when they expressed apprehension about doing this again in subsequent games. After all, it's what I would do. :)
The problem is everyone have different perspectives of how to build and play decks, I want to win and will do everything possible to win my way, could be a bunch of dragons and your fun is not my main agenda cause what is fun to you is not for me. Play what you want and keep your emotions to yourself. Also, I play at the same store with basically the same guys they know what the deal is.
When I see videos like this, I wonder what some people actually do when they play EDH.
Cry. They cry.
I can answer that for you it's really easy no removal, no counter spells, vanilla creatures and 4 hour games.
And no attacking before turn 5 lol
@@QWERTY-du4hc This is what I came to say.
seems like everyone just wants everyone to play stompy.
I built a storm xman deck built around land destruction and I played it once. Everyone at my lgs who normally says "anything goes" targeted me in every subsequent game. I learned a lesson
That’s awesome I don’t hear very much about Land Destruction decks in commander…..much respect👍🏼👍🏼💯
Disgusting, but respect for building it and making it work 👌
I have a soul of wind grace deck i call lord of the ponza that always gets me targeted.
That’s not a bad thing imo if your deck is known to be a threat you shouldn’t feel like you shouldn’t play it but should be prepared to get absolutely targeted from the beginning of the game.
I am building mine around slime against humanity
I play with a group of people that simply allow anything once, and then we see how people feel afterwards
this is the most fun way to go
Part of the problem people have with Storm or control decks is how shitty their pilots are. It's easy to make 10 game actions take less that 2 minutes if you're not bad at the game.
I do agree. I have a combo deck that can storm out. Doesn't include any storm cards. It is a Boros Eggs deck with so many triggers. However I got really good at running the deck fairly quickly. I have one combo that takes the slower route, however the other combos are so much quicker.
I can understand explaining how the cards work as you go taking 10 minutes.
I have to agree. Play Storm of you want, but you HAVE to be able to explain what you are doing clearly and quickly, and know where you are going with. If you can't, your turns are gonna be a lot longer than any other player at the table, and that general boredom is where I draw the line and start targeting you. I wanna play, not come see you play solitaire.
I don’t mind control in commander because it’s hard to control all four players.
@@KH-tu3no But they have to learn it one way or another. They can sit and go through some of their intended combos on their own for SOME practice, but it's only gonna take them so far. For them to learn and be able to go through the process faster, they need the actual experience by playing it in real games, and that means they will be slow in the beginning while they're still learning. You obviously don't have to sit down and watch through their turn, and they aren't entitled to your time for them to learn. But you also don't get to complain about them not being fast enough if you don't allow them the opportunity to learn and get faster. *"You can't have your cake and eat it too"* as they say
Magic players complain about everything: the video
😂 I almost quit watching, but he kept showing my commanders. My LGS has zero gripes about any commander, we all know we're there to win.
I'd give it the thumbs up 👍
Thats exactly how I feel about this
My playgroup won’t play with me: the comment
This is what it feels like to me as a new player. My first idea was a discard deck, i was told that wasnt fun. Then I wanted to go for blue white flyers and was told flying isnt fun. Then I wanted to do green ramp and was told that ramp is OP in a 4 player format with 40hp. Lol
My friend once gave me some solid advice after I got salty over a magic game: build better decks.
If y'all even get to play against these, you're better off than me. My primary complaint for the past 12 years now is that I still don't have anyone to play with.
Play by yourself…. I gold fish my decks in games against myself jus to play or play spelltable online but there is lots of cheaters
Invest in a webcam and use spelltable. Its better than nothin
Same, luckily my son is getting older and I can make him play me lol
You don't have any LGS nearby? I drive 30-40 mins each way to get to my LGS once a week.
“Interaction” is the most hated style I see
Huh? So you hate being a good player? Much less a responsible player? Grow up and get better man
@carso360rocker8 you cant read.
@ you make zero sense
@jenkins9279 What do you mean? Play interaction and get better. Common sense. If that's hard to understand then you have a problem
@@carso360rocker8you don’t understand their comment. You’re basically agreeing with them completely while having a an embarrassing snarky tone.
I think the title of the video should be: Casual EDH players hate anything that isn't battelcruiser
The heck is battlecruiser?
@@urick15battle cruiser refers to decks that are basically tailored towards longer games. You build a deck to survive the early game in wait to get your big unstoppable creatures out late game and become a giant threat out of nowhere. Its different than a big dumb creatures Timmy deck because its focused on dragging out the game till they can overwhelm on one or two big turns. A lot of players get annoyed when a game runs north of an hour and a half, and a lot of battlecruiser decks will draw games out to that point regularly.
And when you do the battle cruiser thing get mad that someone battle cruisered harder than I did.
I’d far prefer to deal with a battlecruiser than a win-from-hand Combo deck, or low-CMC Commander that’s half an infinite that’ll close out the game in 3-4 turns.
*Especially* when the players of such decks always get petulant when you come after them hardcore ASAP.
You play a Vito “I’m Hunting my Exquisite Blood Effect w/ Multiple Tutor-Effects” deck, you should expect every attack 3 players can launch to come your way.
Additionally, if you play a Wincon that can only be interacted with by counter-magic, you should sit down with the expectation that anyone not playing Blue is going to do the only thing they can and try to utilize player-removal before you can pop off.
It honestly baffles me when people brew these decks they know are going to create play-conditions the rest of the table will dislike, only to be shocked and dismayed when the table decides to clean up the problem by knocking out the, say, dedicated Stax pilot, before getting back to the game they wanted to play to begin with.
@Shawn-f3x I'm not sure why people would be surprised about if they're the threat being targeted. Though in the group I'm in a common phrase is that the most effective form of removal is player removal.
I love horrible, salt-inducing mechanics like stax, discard, and infect, but my secret is that I love seeing everybody else's Horrible Thing too. I absolutely want to see your explosive Izzet storm deck, or your poison/proliferate deck, or your thing that wins with Thassa's Oracle/Lab Maniac/Jace despite being casual, or whatever other degenerate gameplan you're going to throw at the table. You're giving me inspiration.
100% agree. It does require pre-game conversation; my dumbass bushido-tribal that wraths your board if you block my 10/10 (kusari-gama is a weird card) might not stand up to your Thoracle deck or Stax deck, but my Oona+Painter deck might. Let's have the conversation so we can all play our bullshit in an actual game (or more likely a set of games), rather than one person pub stomping.
Annnnd you’re the problem
I can’t imagine telling someone no I won’t play with you because you brought “x” strat/deck instead of just switching my deck and worst comes to worst just convincing the other two players to play some archenemy.
Umm, you know some of us only have one deck at a time, because it’s far more affordable to gut one deck for stuff going in the next, right?
I don’t buy any cards I can’t envision a home for in 2-3 decks I want to play beyond the one I’m building ATM, and I certainly can’t afford to replicate the kind of mana base you need to keep up with people at the LGS.
Hell, I’m still working on getting the White Black and Green Black lands to add Black to my repertoire of Green and White.
@ proxy the cards you own dont most game stores ive played atdon’t care if you proxy as long as you own the card.
And im gunna be honest i dont think I know anyone that doesn’t own at least 2 decks considering how available precons are nowadays.
@@FatstaxMTG at least it sounds like you’re open to playing as the Arch. A fair amount of “high power” casual players I know would benefit from that mindset.
Granted some of the “I won’t play against x” comes from how they were treated by that decks pilot. I had a cEDH regular who’d regularly pull his punches if he was having fun with a group, and I’ve watched some other punk get his teeth handed to him behind the shop because he was running the turd of fright and mocking players as they tried to stop the deck and couldn’t. Some people just seem to forget the first rule of play, don’t be a dick.
@@FatstaxMTG I’m essentially reliant on my LGS for 90% of my games, and *no one* there plays anything but 8.5/9s.
New players with Precons are actually given 200+$ of cards at a time to upgrade, rather than anyone building anything lower power.
I could probably put a second deck together at this point, but it would be a shadow of my primary deck, which is always worth 600$+ due to Good Stuff accretion.
@@JohnTalbane87 yeah I will say no to a player 100% some people are terrible to play with.
I will be the first to admit I’m a bit of a power player and try to be transparent about being the problem when I am and kind of enjoy being a bit if the target because usually I do loose but leave a mark on the table.
If we played only basic creatures someone would complain about flying.
Glad Polymorph decks arent on the naughty list, no coal in my stocking this year
Basically if it isn’t a green stompy deck, people will complain about it.
@@Yourbeautiful666 I mean, like I told someone else, Wincons that require counter-magic to stop are never going to be fun to face for non-Blue decks, and some strats are just punishingly unfun to play against with enough $$ behind them.
I know a guy with a theft deck that’ll put something as bad as a Roil Elemental on the board T2-3, then dupe it 1-2, almost as a sideline to his main strategy, with the main one pretty much always Hexproof somehow.
Helps to be packing a full Fast Mana package.
Win From Hand Combo decks, OTOH, are just Solitaire you insist on an audience for. Least IMO.
@ Fun is subjective. Most of the player base currently plays with proxies as well, so money isn’t as big of an issue as if once was, when people actually bought cards. There are ways to stop these win cons in every color now days. Some just require more hoops. And a win con from the hand can take a while to complete, but as long as it ends the game, you can just play another one. I’d much rather play against that than a simic value deck or a mono green ramp deck that takes a long time doing a lot of nonsense just to pass the turn.
@@Yourbeautiful666 This is one of my games last WPN FNM.
T1: Shocked in Overgrown Tomb, Sol Ring, pass.
T2: G/B Battle Land, Crypt Ghast, pass.
T3: Crypt Ghast destroyed via Generous Gift during upkeep, Swamp, Crypt Ghast returned for 1B, -4 life, Vito From CZ, Exquisite Blood.
Exquisite Blood gets Naturalized on Sight.
T4, Swamp, Enduring Tenacity comes down, Crypt Ghast swings on open opponent, game.
Game 2 spooled out to a whole 5 turns, because Vito and the Tutored Enduring Tenacity were destroyed together, before a timely Dark Ritual helped pay off bringing Vito back as the other LEGO clicked into place.
And then the Vito pilot got unhappy, because out of the 4 active pods present, no one was up for another round of that.
When FNM doesn’t fire until 6:30pm at a store closing at 10pm, players (In MY experience) get testy about games that eat up 35-40 mins with an extremely high likelihood to be near-exact reruns of an optimized Combo deck’s couple of hyper-linear lines.
You see Chulane abuse an Intruder Alarm once, you’ve seen absolutely everything the Bant LEGO-clicker has to offer the table, at the cost of 1/4th to 1/6th of all the play time 3 people might have for a week.
I play mono blue Spike/Johnny type of deck. I only counter spells that attempt to interrupt my gameplay
My favorite thing about Ms. Bumbleflower is that if I win it's because your deck is just bad. You're drawing a bunch of cards. Granted, I'm abusing the fact that you are drawing cards off me, but I'm giving you card advantage and you aren't getting an out. And people have gotten salty at me when I play it. That's on you, dude.
unless you also load the dexk up with cards that say "opponents cannot cast spells during your turn" then its more of wishing you could play said response but its too late. kutzil, myrel, grand abolisher to name the 3 in my deck i run.
from my experience the people against stax are the people that want to play a game of solitaire never interacting with the table
I learned the hard way early on that it's the opposite. Make my reasonably costed removal cost six more while resources are tapped down and creatures are impossible to keep on the table? There's someone here who would love interaction, and it's me not the stax player.
I let players in my group know how I feel about whatever playstyle. I'm cool with people playing it, so long as they understand it may mean they get my attention early and often.
That said, we have one dude who proxies cards and built a mill/infect/stax deck. Thankfully, it can be very slow- since there's no real focus- and easy to deal with by attacking with an aggressive and evasive commander. 21 damage can be faster than 10 poison counters or milling 90 cards.
yeah, Mill is not a good win strat and while it's salt is overrated, the biggest thing people need to remember is this: while they're spending mana making you mill cards, they're not spending mana on creatures to stop you from stomping their face. They have a mill deck? you have creatures you all can swing at them to smush them into the ground. And you should. Of all the ones here, it's the only one that's easy to beat with the bog standard approach of "just beat them up like the salty whiny nerd they are".
I love commander as a format but stuff like this makes me crazy. Playing interaction in your deck is a rememdy to much of what is described in this video.
“But that’s sweaty!” cried the battlecruiser casuals.
Just played against my friends storm deck. When he was loading up for his 4th extra turn, half the table concided. It's like the longest form of infinite.
My two favorite decks: Marchesa Stax and Zedruu "Group Hug" (But really Wheels)
"Am I the Baddie?"
Yes. You are, but that doesn't make you a bad player.
My favourite deck is my Illuna mutate deck with a polymorph sub theme. Glad aparently polymorph decks arent on the naughty list
@@toedrag-releaseplaystyles that divide the community part 2. Mitch mentions polymorph decks
@@screwthisin nah
Be the Marchesa you want to see in the world.
My playgroup is gun because we allow basically anything as long as you are chill and know how to handle your deck (with reservations for learning a new deck of course). We want to see what the others decks can do together.😁
Someone plays poison, another voltron, then mill, or maybe rakfos groupslug and so on.
Proliferater here, I HATE taking out one person early.. I spread the (poison) love, and proliferate.. ending the game with Planewide Celebration and a sarcastic "yay!" but most of the time I drop two people and gift the last person with the Caress of Phyrexia. /love
well it really depends on the pods, i have a group which literally complains about anything that i play just because i win before (not often did I win though). there's also a group which is cool and being fair to everyone when we play despite winning or losing.
If I’m playing a deck that can utilize my Graveyard, and/or has a good amount of recursion for the most important cards in my deck then I like seeing certain Mill Commanders in the pod. I’ve had so many games with my Narset Prowess deck where I won because the Mill deck Milled me into my Win Conditions. The only big combos I run in the deck are with Isochron Scepter, and Sensei’s Divining Top for repeated Prowess Triggers to One Shot opponents with Unblockable creatures. I did specifically avoid adding any Extra Combats and/or Extra Turns because they would be too easy to abuse. I want High Power (Bracket 4), not full on CEDH.
The problem with a lot of these strategies is that they're not really interactable and/or you have to have/build around somebody else's deck to be able to, you know, *actually play.* Graveyard decks *love* mill; counterspell tribal and stax are counterstrategies to the storm player; you can play something like Melira anytime somebody brings out their toxic/infect deck; etcetera. But not eveybody wants to build decks specifically to counter one person, and even you do that player tends to get *real* salty about it.
The most controversial play style is when people play and don’t let me win😤😂😂
Things that Magic players hate: playing the game
The video is about magic players liking playing the game. Remember, there are four players, not one player and an audience. Everyone can play unfun, nasty decks, most people choose not to, because they just aren't fun. Definitely not fun for 3 people, but not even fun for the person playing those decks
@@vigilantnapper Dare anyone try to win a game in casual. It may be frowned upon.
I'm glad my play group doesn't mind scoop magic. I have 12 decks and 2 are not devaluing my opponents
@@bcoo111 This video is literally about players not liking how certain players play magic. That was the worst gaslight attempt you could’ve tried.
When I was running OG Atraxa I would always get asked if it was an infect deck, to which I'd say just 1 card. Triumph of the horde, and I only play it if I'm sure the attack would end the game for everyone so we could start a new game. I don't care for the 10 poison rule in EDH, but it's a good game ender if that's what it is. If it only takes out 1 person, the feel bads hit hard on that one.
I ended up dismantling the deck but not because of how other's felt playing it. It WAS annoying hearing 1 or 2 people gripe about the lifelink one game, or DT another, or proliferate in another game haha, but the reason I dismantled it was because someone played From the Ashes on me and it completely killed my game. The land package in a 4 color deck is hard enough to get right and working well, without spending $300-400 on it anyway, so there's always a shortage of basics. The few basics I had in it, were in the GY already due to them being milled out. So the 2, 2 colored players were able to get their lands back while I was essentially Armageddon'ed. Was not a fun game to try to scrape back in. Was a miserable experience and that night I took it apart and haven't built another 4+ color deck since unless it was something where the MC were hybrids or cards where the cost to get out is a couple colors but the rest is in the identity like Samut or Kenrith (just as an example, Ive never played Kenrith).
Definitely one of those games where I learned something.
I can understand why Mill decks can be a problem. As a newer player, I only have two decks (both of which are precons with some light upgrades), and both of them are pretty reliant on artifact cards.
Because I don't have a lot of cards that return artifacts from my graveyard or from exile, and since most of my creatures are low power with low mana costs, being milled out usually ends games quite early for me.
Seems like an awesome experience. You learned a specific weakness of your deck and must have thought of how to shore up that aspect.
I'd love to learn what you changed/added to your deck.
There is no difference from a mill deck placing your card in the graveyard and a deck placing that card on the bottom of your deck in the "you will never touch these cards" part of the deck. You have 99 cards in your deck. You're likely not touching 99 cards.
Its a graveyard for a reason, they print too much reanimation these days. the grave has lost its meaning
Im a returning player. Ive got 2 decks a precon and a mill deck. Honestly my precon wins more often than my mill deck. Ive found that in a 4 person match, becoming public enemy number 1 will make the decks that are weaker end up winning.
@@GerBessa I wish the majority of my pod thought this way... my favorite part of Magic is that it can be ever-changing; decks, playstyles, interaction, all are lessons to learn and grow from.
Is anything controversial if its not build up to do the thing without interfering with someones thing.
I'm losing my mind, this is every deck people play at my LGS
My only combo deck is a Vhal, Candlekeep Researcher (paired with Clan Crafter Background) and it does run 3 tutors, Moonsilver Key, Reshape, and Fabricate, but the combos all require 3+ cards to win not including my commander, so I think it's more fair. The goal of the deck is to make Vhal's butt bigger with cards like Slagwurm Armor or Kite Shield, find ways to untap her with cards like Singing Bell Strike or Pemmin's Aura, and then typically I have to find a way to filter the mana to make it usable with cards like Prismite or Energy Refractor, and then I find one of my 13 really fun but weird cards to win the game all at once. Cards such as Screaming Shield, Cogwork Assembler, Rocket Launcher, or my personal favorite Goblin Cannon. Typically takes 3-4 pieces plus my commander to win. It's also a budget+ deck, sitting at just $80. Still expensive for this channel, but still kinda cheap for most Magic Decks.
Also, anyone who compalins about Mill will fall on deaf ears with me. Mill is cool, not super strong, and not stopping your from playing the game. It doesn't interact with anything on your board or in your hand, or make it so you can't cast cards. All it does is put a timer on the deck (and also help the graveyard decks, oops). If your deck doesn't have consistency, then well that's more a problem with your deckbuilding than anything. Not saying there aren't decks out there that rely on some wack combo, like 98 land decks that fetch just a single card, but still. Mill is like the fair version of discard decks.
My so far only deck is Oskar Artifacts. Outside of Windfall and Geier Reach Sanitarium, I'm the only one discarding, but I could still try a 20 minute combo that leads to nothing but a ton of artifacts and some zombie tokens if I wanted to.
I make sure to not try to combo off unless I can win pretty quickly, partly because I didn't want to take up that much time, and partly because if I don't win after that, I'll probably eat a board wipe and have no follow up.
If anyone complains about my deck I’m only encouraged to play it more. Essentially, “fuck you for trying to make me feel bad for playing what I want to play.” is my motto when it comes to MTG, Especially commander.
The game is too expensive for certain playstyles to be looked down upon.
Play what you want to play.
I play a storm deck at my LGS, It is reserved for the high power casual tables where everyone is in agreement that its true free-for-all. Its also a straight forward storm line that cannot fail to finish the game and the whole line can be shortcut'd. Its failure point is also the first cast of the card I storm off with so its easy to spot although slightly harder to interact with. Although its recently been tweaked to be a combo deck that has an optional storm finish.
I also have plenty of combo decks as its the only way to end the game efficiently. I find that people getting knocked out first then gets stuck waiting for over an hour for the game to end because the person who knocked them out gets their threats taken out and the game drags on for another 2 hour to feel worse than losing to a combo that takes everyone out. I've been on the receiving end of the "Knocked out first then wait for 2-3 hours for the next game" situation too many times to count.
I also play land destruction, but its designed to be a wincon and not just throw it out there for the sake of land destruction. When I destroy lands, its all of them (sometimes my own included) and keeps them off the field from that point on. At which point, I'll always be in an advantageous state with minimal chances for my opponents to make a comeback.
Also have a mill deck. Its been shelved due to some people (more like a single person) at my LGS who hate mill with a loud passion. I'd rather not listen to their ranting when we sit in the same pod and they get a single card milled (I also try to make it a point of not sitting in the same pod as them).
I play a Mogis resource denial/land destruction deck. It uses lots of Enchantments with recurring damage triggers. Ideally I make Mogis a creature using his Devotion mechanic via the Enchantments I've played & then play Jokulhaups. Indestructible Commander + Enchantments left alone is usually a win con.
Also, playing Tainted Aether on Turn 2 might make people unhappy.
I've been told that when I play this deck I am the target.
How to beat somebody trying to win: interaction.
Thing that everyone hates: interaction.
In a multiplayer game. EDH's problem is misunderstanding 'casual' to the point of baby-ing people who whine about interaction.
the one thing commander players dont hate is a 4/4 for 6 mana (but only if it doesnt have flying)
I may be an anomaly in the mtg player base, but i don't care what archetype you bring to the table. If you storm out your deck, i get excited cuz i'm happy for you your deck is doing stuff and i'm curious on how you played it out and how you got to this stage. No matter the archetype, people are gonna complain. I've had people complaining to me for winning a game with Rin and Seri turn 10 cuz they didn't consider this commander to be a 6 at a power 6 table. The player skill has more impact than the quality of your cards.
I don't mind stax just need to make sure I have removal for it, but land destruction is a different...
I play mono green storm with Aeve, Progenitor Ooze. Can the turns take a bit, sure I rightfully admit so. But when someone says it’s problematic that I can pop out 10 copies of a commander with no evasion and no other abilities I’m left scratching my head.
It’s a good amount of damage but one board wipe and I’m cooked since most of my combo pieces are creature/land untaps, all facilitated through creature abilities and some cantrips.
The pitfall of mono green storm compared to other colors is if you don’t have the creatures, you REALLY aren’t storming off.
Stax is fun as hell love the alternate win con of making everyone scoop.
Excellent, no one complains about the group slug strategy or burn!
I build some interactive decks that function well. I get target often and expect that I'll be targeted so i build my decks like every game is a 3v1. I run a larger protection/interaction package than most people. Magic players cry when u don't let them touch their cards. We're a sensitive bunch
My LGS isn't too against these deck types however if I want to use an infinite combo like Shalai and Hallar and The Red Terror, I have to wait until everyone has had their turn 5 before I can use the combo.
I am a girl who LOVES my Miirym deck and I can storm off once I have a large board presence and pull one particularly card but when I pull that card I usually go “I can win here and now but I will hold the card until everyone agrees to end the game”
My favorite deck when I played unlimited with friends back in the day, waaaaaaaaaaaay before I got into commander, was a gruul stompy deck that ran Myojin of infinite rage. I would throw down a bunch of dorks, and then drop Myojin and blow up the lands. It was fun, but we were also young.
I play exactly ONE wheel in all my commander decks. Just a single wheel of misfortune in my b/r Mishra, claimed by gix deck.
If someone could build an app, or modify an existing service so you can put four lists in and it lets you know if they are at a similar level, oh man, that would be great. Basically taking all these themes and finding a means to quantify them. Each would be on a slider of 1-10, and the total would be the power level. Because some decks are Mill lvl 1, and others are Mill lvl 10, and any deck that reaches a score of 8-10 in any theme would be a flag on the deck. Other values would be speed, cost $, curve, ramp, tutor/cherry picking, etc.
We have a mill sympathizer over here. All jokes aside, I see your point. I am an infect enjoyer myself. Despite common beliefs about it, I enjoy finding ways to make infect feel like a fair boss fight, instead of a wall hacking assassin.
My only problem with mill are the mill decks that are built to increase how many cards you have so mill each turn. I've had to mill 40 cards once time and it increased each turn.
And this is why my friends and I only play together and dont play at the LGS
Yeah...based on a lot of the comments here, I don't think I'd want to play with most folks I'd find at the LGS. I just started playing MTGA and was considering transitioning to paper. But way too many people seem to enjoy intentionally making other people miserable, or simply fail to comprehend the simple truth that people want to have fun while playing a game. If what you're doing is only fun for you, then folks will naturally choose to spend their free time doing something else. Alas, I don't have three other friends to play with at the moment, but it seems like the odds are I'd end up bored and leaving the game early. At least online, I can concede quickly and efficiently once I realize I'm playing against someone who wants to win without me playing.
@schwaaard I get that. What i mean by we only play together is that we actually do play with things people don't like. We use land hate, stax, extra turns, etc. But we don't want to subject others to that.
@@bradeybunch9599 Ah! I see. That works as well! XD
Mill is basically Wheel light. Cards go from library to grave. Or cards go from Library to hand to grave. Mill doesn't feel as bad as wheel, as you can form a plan with the cards in your hand and draw. So not as disrupting as wheel but basically a similar thing. I'd rather play mill than wheel. I like to play recursion against mill or wheel. hehehehe
Rich wants us to all play like Timmies 😂
The TL:DR version is that every play style is problematic. It's almost like casual players don't understand what threat assessment and interaction is....
I recently finished building Herigast the Nullkite. The deck is clunky still as I slowly work on it. But it's cool. Big stompy creatures. The problem is that I am avoiding any Eldrazi with the annihilator ability because that is too salt inducing. I also know this deck will NEVER cut it in cEDH. EVER. So I'm stuck. I'd LIKE to play the meanest Eldrazi, but I had to make a trade off. I can rarely play what I want to play because everything is salty.
My Indominus Rex Alpha deck is salty because it's too hard to remove her from the battlefield.
My Master of Keys deck is salty because graveyard recurrtion is annoying to deal with.
My Slimefoot and Squee deck is salty because the deck can win without interacting with the opponent's board state.
Videos like this one prove that casual commander was a mistake.
The only two things I hate is someone taking 5 minutes to only end up making infinite "stuff" and winning and the other is getting hit with counter spells or something like that back to back to back
With Stella Lee, if I am playing a storm deck and have cast 3 spells, and I cast a spell with storm, then copy it with Stella’s ability, how many times does the spell get copied?
The storm count + 1 copy, copy dont have storm
Mass land destruction is no fun, but Zo-Zu is such a fun commander. I love making everyone consider their game actions carefully by placing a downside on everything.
a play group of all mill is pretty fun.
I’ve only had a 2/5 mill game, and almost won, but I still lost
I have a tribal discard nath of the gilt leaf deck that I love, but I refuse to play it unless someone sits down with a control deck
Combo is somehow a problem when just building a synergistic deck and oops that's a combo is common place is it not?
Combos aren't a big deal in a 100 card format unless they're your commander or tutored. Discard isn't a problem. Stax isn't a problem. You should have answers in your deck for your opps.
Storm can be a problem if they're clueless and slow, but is fine if they know how to play.
Mass land destruction is really the only no no because its such a common rule 0 that most don't build for it.
Oddly enough one of the most hated decks I play was not even covered here, Merieke Ri Berit. Apparently people don’t like it when you pay their creatures against them.
Gonna build a discard/stax themed deck
So how exactly are you supposed to play, im brand new to paper magic and I'm trying to build my first deck and literally everything game/deck that i watch on TH-cam is basically one of these playstyles.
I pulled Niv-Mizzet, but I'm a D tier player at best. you'll probably take a few burns and I'll pull some combos but a few negates and removals turn my deck off if I'm not also pulling into my negates
My group's most hated deck i use is eluge voltron. I always gotta say before i use it,
Stax and LandDestruction is the top of annoyances.
I love my extra combat Xyris with just one wheel spell. It is not my fault that nobody rund interaction at all.
I don't play any of the decks styles in this video, but I don't really get the argument of some cards aren't alright to play. The mentality of "I'm going to get up from the table" just because you don't like what someone else is playing seems so childish.
The only thing that kinda pisses me off that ive ran across are the infinite combos that just auto win the game. Once we start getting there it might as well just be a cedh pod and not casual.
I dont know if id say all these are "effective" when in higher play. I know uou said this was for casual but like you say casual has different goals but if thats the case these fall out of "effective" range
My God, all the griping about Poison. It's a playstyle. Plus, not every deck has to be an automatic salt mine.
Take Ixhel as a commander. Toxic is far less aggressive than Infect, she only deals 2 but requires 3 to benefit from Corrupted, you lose blue when compared to Atraxa, and you can specifically kit out your deck to make it less of a hassle through your choice of creature inclusions. Why would that need to draw the ire of everybody on sight? It's just stupid.
... u forgot theft decks ... where people start playing creatures you own and win with them.
Ngl thats definitely a hard pill to swallow, getting bodied by the cards that should be winning the game for you is humbling lol
I love my ziatora theft deck. I’ll never stop
Who cares honestly. I dont make decks to please people or try to help their feelings. I make them for my enjoyment and to be atleast a threat if not the only threat during the game.
The only time i don't like playing against any type of play style is when they don't have a win con.
Like if you play MLD and your game plan after dropping an Armageddon is to just draw one card, play one land, and durdle like the rest of us for the next 3 turns, I'll probably get annoyed. Same with stax, if you lock everyone out of the game I'd prefer you have a clear strategy for winning that doesn't involve boring everyone to the point of scooping.
I feel that videos like this help less than maybe intended and cause more toxicity at commander tables
Now to make a Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, group hug deck : D
My buddy made Zur, the Enchanter into group hug and it’s actually really cool
I learned that no matter what ppl will hate your deck, so I dont feel guilty playing hinata anymore
My opponents fun is not my responsibility. What if I don't get to play a whole lot? What if when I do get to play I want to play What I want to play? What about my fun?
I think a good take away from this video is the need to talk about the game that’s about to happen. Casual Commander is meant to be a social format.
I still think infect/poison should take 20 counters to get the win. Others have to do 40, doubled, from a normal game so its only fair.
Commander players when you remove their infinite combo piece before they win on turn 4
Poison is just a dumb mechanic, however I can’t stand any strategy that causes turns to take forever. I would rather play against stax than someone who plays 10 minute solitaire every turn
I love poison and its associated mechanics -- and proliferate is my favorite mechanic in the game -- but a lot of that is due to the thematic/Vorthos side of things. If it wasn't so strongly associated with "mad science" and New Phyrexia, I probably wouldn't like it as much. I'm a biomedical engineer, and I love being able to go "that's a thing that I understand!", especially in the fantasy genre where you normally wouldn't expect a lot of these science fiction elements.
Moral of the story. Playing against Urza always sucks.
I am not a huge fan of mill and tend to avoid versing it. I do not heavily hate it though. THe only time I will admit I get salty with mill is when its combined with thief effect and they are stealing what they are milling from me. I hate losing to my own cards in general. Only other time I get lightly salty is when I lose lands and such i need due to the mill.
I’ll Stan for storm decks all day long. That shit is fun
I would say Mill only when it uses a bullshit combo. My brother is a Yugioh player and likes to exploit the fun out of things, his magic deck for Mill was really ensuring that you lose half your deck in a few turns.
For my own Mill I chose Mothman, because I thought the whole radiation counters could be fun.
I’m cool with mill as long as the entire point isn’t JUST to thoracle out. That’s just boring to play against
I feel salt control decks are very toxic in the commander community … I know players that have decks that specifically counter specific gameplay and based on what they play that game they’ll switch decks just to specifically counter it.. I just feel that maybe control is necessary to make a game more manageable for some players and keep top decks in check but if it becomes too toxic to a point where players no longer have fun I feel it’s a bigger hindrance to a game but that’s just my opinion. Play what you like and enjoy the game but maybe not at the expense of other players 🥰
My friend built a Grand Arbiter stax deck as his first ever commander deck. After one game he decided to change it for... a storm deck who was even worse. After that he made an otter deck that's ok. But those first 2 were awful.
I have exactly two decks that arent just "turn shit sideways the deck". One is a stella lee storm deck with tons of infinites, and the other is the 20 ways to win precon. Ultimately im an aggro player and i like to hit people in the mouth lol.
RIP Fynn the fang, SnoopDog retired you from his deck list last year.
So you’re saying I build one deck of each of these to make my friends mad?
I never had an issue with a player while wanting to play storm
nah stax players have like a weird thing for controlling others, mild judgement for choosing to play like that out of ALL the playstyles I’m sorry😂
Thank god we are in a pod with 4 battle cruiser decks that can’t win before turn 25, otherwise I might get upset
People never expect Phyrexian Toxic :]
Oops. I won a game last night playing Vial Smasher / Thrasios STORM.
The problem is commander is a casual game, it's about the journey, not the destination. It's also meant to be fun for everyone, not just 1 person. If someone wants to play unfun decks, or "it's not a cedh deck it's missing one card" decks, they need to let everyone else know so all four players can be at the level. It's kind of sad when someone is so desperate to "win" in a meaningless, casual format they bring unfun/competitive decks knowing their opponents won't be playing the same level.
See, the way I do it is that I build and play in a very Spiky way, but I'm also very honest about what I'm playing. I will gladly tell you how that deck helmed by a weird precon commander is in fact a "highly upgraded" precon with all kinds of nasty shit in it, or warn you about salt-inducing cards if you ask about them.
I will also always, always encourage my opponents to do the mean thing if it's the most effective choice for their gameplan. I am doing my best to win, no matter what, and I outright expect everybody else to do the same thing. I remember once playing against a deck that won by repeatedly killing Yosei, the Morning Star to tap down everyone's board over and over, and I outright encouraged them to keep Yosei in the deck when they expressed apprehension about doing this again in subsequent games. After all, it's what I would do. :)
The problem is everyone have different perspectives of how to build and play decks, I want to win and will do everything possible to win my way, could be a bunch of dragons and your fun is not my main agenda cause what is fun to you is not for me. Play what you want and keep your emotions to yourself. Also, I play at the same store with basically the same guys they know what the deal is.