ZWO is on fire
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- Another rant video where I sit down and run my yap with no research whatsoever. What do you think about ZWOs rise to dominance in the astrophotography camera space lately?
Is any other company doing interesting stuff I should know about? Let me know in the comments!
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I am new to the hobby. After years of watching Dylan and Trevor and others on TH-cam, I took the plunge and took my first picture last Saturday. I am starting out with the AM5, ASI533MC Pro, ASI Air and just for fun I also grabbed the ZWO EAF. So, basically ZWO all around. I was blown away with how quickly I was up and running with the ASIAIR. Less than two hours after unboxing everything, I was looking at my first sub of Carina. If this was a PC I'd probably still be fiddling with drivers and updates and settings today.
I generally do not like getting locked into an ecosystem (Apple....cough!) but the way everything integrates blew me away.
And the ASIAIR app design is excellent. I was doubtful about how they would fit guiding, focusing, histograms, mount control, polar alignment, test exposures and exposure schedules all on a tiny phone screen. But they actually made it work. Not having to be at my PC while I'm imaging is actually great. I can have a drink with a friend or cook or play with the kids while watching the subs rolling in, the guiding performance, or check the focusing, on my phone. I am pleasantly surprised.
Hey congrats! Welcome to the astro community :)
Glad to hear that you're up and going, welcome to the hobby. :-) That said, virtually everything is plug and play these days. There are a few quirks here and there, but nearly everything just works.
I think @plofstof has hit on why they're at 78% in your video, Dylan. But I think ZWO is mistaken to be as "exclusive" of other brands when it comes to hooking components up to the ASIAir, for example and is why I have no ZWO stuff (yet?) and also why neither my wife and I have any Apple tech. We're a hybrid household of Linux and Windows and Android. If the 'Air could work with a QHY or Ogma camera, it would penetrate the market even deeper, but no.
Would have been interesting to see Player One in the camera voting list. They seem to be quite the up and coming competition
It's amusing the ready player one guy use to work for ZWO. Apparently they had a falling out so he left to start his own company.
I didn’t know that, interesting
@@TheBignick243are you sure you're not confusing ready player one with those shady astcampan?
@@TheBignick243 About a year ago I saw a Japanese film (Insomniacs after School) which heavily featured astrophotography, and frequently showed a large SCT made by a company called Showa. Turns out that company was founded in a similar way in the 60's, except the guy (a man named Hidaka) left Takahashi. There's not much I can find on it, but I really want to know what the full story behind this, what did Takahashi of all companies didn't do to make Hidaka think "yeah, I could do it better."
@@DylanODonnell he did not just work for ZWO, he was one of the 2 main partners of the company….
I think ZWO is doing well because they are taking the confusion out of the difficulty this hobby has. EG... ASIAIR... that was a total game changer for me. I have had good success with their customer service as I had a warranty issue with a camera. I really like sky-watcher as I use their mount. Sky-watcher needs to step up their game on innovation. Their new strain wave mount is over a year late to the market. I think they may have missed the boat with everyone converting. Their mount still wont me available till August.
Good points
I think one of the most helpful things ZWO did was standardize all their adapters and accessories to always easily give you 55mm of back focus with clear pictures how and all the adapters in the box. Why have other manufacturers struggled with this?
@@AaronDalton1in order to sell you accessories and fancy adaptors etc
They significantly reduce the difficulty in doing things, but in return, they lock you into their ecosystem. Sounds very familiar in a fruit-shaped way...
Not just the strain wave mount.. Also in the scope department of skywatcher.. what's new there?
the Esprit lineup has been the only one really to consider for years? a scope from 2018... still at a premium price......the newts are "so so".. and the dobs are good, but not for photography... and kinda pricey..
When William optics, with the redcat has been doing scopes for a while that don't require back focus... and ZWO has a scope lineup now too with a very ease of use.. And Askar bringing loads of scopes for "cheap".. a lot with ease of use and flat field.. in a variety of price classes.
Where is the quintuplet Esprit flat field lineup?
Skywatcher does almost nothing in the filter department (filterwheels), nothing in camera's, focusers, rotators, computers, OAG's, etc - They HAD the granddaddy of the mounts that got them to the top.., the EQ6... (keep in mind, this came out in 2010...)
and have done very little since then to stay at the top.. the EQ8 is still the big boy obviously which is out of the budget for most.. And they have a good star tracker which will be obsolete if ZWO ever comes with a ZWO AM1 that runs on a battery.
It's not just the strain wave that is too late (and honestly a hint overpriced at 200-300 bucks over the ZWO AM3/5).. they're behind in EVERY part of this hobby considering their top of the line items stem from 2010? & 2018.. while ZWO has diversified and become a one stop shop for pretty much everything you need in this hobby.
ZWO is the APPLE version in the astro sector. Something I don't particularly like is being “trapped” in one system without being able to mix with other systems.
That was the reason for me to use Touptek cameras with NINA.
Yeah, I find this actually going on with more vendors in the astro tech world, I have to machine custom parts to make filter wheels fit other adapters and cameras adapters shaved down to get the back focus down to a minimum as the standard 5-10-20mm dosn't cut it
I was visiting a friend in their optics research lab last year and was surprised to see a ZWO 294MM set up on an optical table! It was a bit scary to see an astronomy camera placed straight in the path of a laser 😂
Wow .. lasers are cool :)
The most popular option isn’t always the best often times it’s the best marketed
True!
This 100000%.
Player One should have been in the list. These days, all my cameras and my filter are Player One for two reasons. Quality-wise, they always deliver a step above ZWO. But main thing is this: If I have technical questions or need service, PO gets back to me instantly. When the Canadian winter proved too cold at sub -30C for the PO Phoenix filter wheel, their tech came online same day, modified the filter wheel's firmware and they offered to make and send me a special low friction washer for the wheel. When NINA 3.0 came out and the PO Ares-M had some issues with it, I contacted them, they got back immediately with a link to their new ASCOM driver and their tech logged into my camera that day, updated the firmware and spent three hours running tests on the camera just to make sure it was all good. PO comes through with customer service.
I reached out to them for help choosing a camera and their CEO responded with an in depth and helpful response! Been a fan ever since then.
That’s AstroPhysics level service from a Chinese company, which is almost unbelievable.
Let's not forget how pretty their boxes are either. I nearly gag each time I look at my boring ZWO camera box!
that is quality support. Impressive stuff. I see why PO is becoming very popular.
The background the video is amazing not sure how you do it or how you sync it with your comments, but it's great to see that as you talk.
Good to see a Renishaw motorised inspection head at 6.05 (on the TV) not to mention the Renishaw encoders improving mount technology too. I like the ZWO red too..my blue WO Z61 looks wrong on the AM5 with a red Daystar Quark and a Red ASI174 and an ASIAir. It is definitely making me itch to buy a new red refractor!
Thanks again for sharing wisdom and contributing to education.
You are kickin' it Dylan! We'll get you to 100,000 before you know it! If only I could subscribe more than once.
Cheers man ! 🍻
Yes, would love to see a video from you about AO/adaptive optics. Long overdue option for the smaller scope market. Great channel you have, Dylan!
Thanks Davey!
As a newbie to this, I personally just love how simple ZWO makes things. Getting an Asiair Plus was an absolute game changer for me. One of the things I particularly enjoy is that I'm able to live stack and show people what I'm imaging, much like automated telescopes, but I'm also not locked into a single telescope or camera.
Thank you Dr Dylan, this was very informative
NINA and all the plugins are free and much more powerful than the ASI Air. A mini PC required for NINA can be quite a bit less than an ASI Air solution. There are other camera solutions that are a lot less than ASI. As a NINA user, I can't imagine not outgrowing the ASI walled garden.
I agree 💯
Absolutely, the main reason I don't have an Asi air is because I hate closed ecosystems
If you don't want to run Windows, then the ASI AIR is a good alternative for a not stupid price. That said, I would rather use NINA too, even though I absolutely hate the constant Windows updates.
@@BBROPHOTO If you don't want to run Windows you also have Astroberry or Stellarmate based on Raspi, and you can instal Ekos/KStar on any Linux.
Greetings.
YOU'RE on fire with this upload streak. (Also, my favorite brand is Orion Telescopes and Binoculars. Yes, I'm an inferior visual astronomer. 🌚)
Haha thanks man
just built my first mono astro rig. everything exept of the mount and nb filters is zwo. really excited to start imaging in a few days when everything (including me😂😂) arrives at one place
I started with a ZWO 533mc because of the price and then went with a guide camera and asi air plus. I also now have a 662 for planetary. The zwo gear integrates and just works.. it makes it easy for the beginner. I always had trouble with nina.. it only ever worked when it felt like it and required me to setup a laptop.. now I do everything from my tablet sitting on the lounge.. its a beginners dream for astro.
I got into astrophotography right when the ASI air pro came out and I had seen a bunch of ZWO camera reviews on TH-cam. I spent months researching hardware so I wasn’t wasting money on parts I’d quickly want to upgrade. Instead of having to set up my ancient laptop with a mess of cables, array of applications, and have to figure out how to get everything to work together reliably, I could start right off with a cooled monochrome camera, filter wheel, and ASI air that could run it all. It wasn’t long before I was adding an off axis guider and autofocuser for the complete package. I never once had to worry about backspacing as all the proper sized parts were included and well documented. I have found their products to reliably function exactly as expected, without having to spend much time troubleshooting. (with the exception of the lack of WiFi antenna on the ASI, which was mostly solved with a plugin WiFi adapter). The only thing I need now is an observatory so I can leave my scope setup, and not have to lug around a bunch of heavy equipment and spend an hour setting up and aligning.
Sold... added it to the budget... 😬
Really happy with my ZWO ASIAIR plus. They have come a long ways. The were able to get a hand on the Wi-Fi issue.
My camera and EAF are also ZWO. The red goes really nicely with my white Celestron 9.25 edge hd cgx
I started with a Questar, then Meade (LX90), then onto IOptron mounts with various refractors and reflectors. Now, I’m all in on ZWO. I have an AM3 (had an AM5), ASIAIR PLUS and a ASI2600 Duo. As soon as the ASI2600 AIR/DUO is available, I’ll be purchasing it (I’m into smaller and less cables). I have to drive to image, so faster, easier setup and tear down is a priority for me.
The asi air is i think the best decision zwo has made. Super easy to use for all the new people who are coming into this hobby to have a more painless experience starting out and lock them into their brand from the get go. I'm one of those people and I'm constantly looking for another plug an play option that is more open source than the asi air because I do want to use other brands. But I made my whole rig to work flawlessly with the asi air so a new system has to match that pretty well for me to make the move.
That's in my opinion why everyone is on zwo gear
I have 4 ZWO cameras and love them all. When I bought a 50mm Lunt I decided to get a Player One Neptune-M. I am really impressed with the build. I will probably buy another Player One at some point.
Mainly a Solar imager and Player One user here, they have a superb range of planetary and Deep Space camera too.
lol “Takahashi snobs” - mr Byron-Bay-got-my-own-star-party 😄
hahahahahaha
@@DylanODonnell Byron Bay Observatory? More like Ivory Tower Observatory 😎😎😎
I just got back into astronomy when I learned about EAA, picked up a Celestron Nexstar Evolution. I got a ZWO ASI585 CW partly because ZWO seems to have a critical mass. They are everywhere, good products, reasonable prices, etc. The red color pops too. With a computerized scope, a decent, inexpensive camera and StarCap, etc. viewing is so easy and rewarding. The biggest problem I've had is troubleshooting software (the camera was easy). Once I got everything updated and working together it's amazing what you can do. I also got a Hyperstar and can go out on my porch in Dallas and observe galaxies and nebulae otherwise impossible to see.
I am a multi vendor user. I use the best gear for a specific task. Skywatcher CQ 350 has been a amazing replqcement for my CGX that broke down. My C8 with hyperstar and Reducer and as a planitary its so veritile. Still have my AVX mount that is my solar mount for my Explore Scientific ED80 Cf i use with ZWO 174mm and Daystar Quark with built in 4.2x barlow and its a blast for the sun. I uses gear that i can be creative and productive. Deepspace is ZWO 2600 pro. ZWO works great becuse the inovate. Global shutter is a must for solar and mono and when u start understand why that is. Then u evolve. Clear skies and always happy when a new video comes up.
Yep.. my rig is so diverse it's woke.
I'd be curious to see you try out a couple of the other brands too, even just to check them out. I just got a Player One with the IMX585 sensor that I'm real curious to check out this weekend. I saw a lot of really good praise for them recently and I'm real curious. It got to the US in TWO DAYS from China! So far they've been awesome to deal with. But I'm new to the playing field here so I can't say much about the others
Hands-down, the best sign off on TH-cam!
Hehe thanks :)
What I like about ZWO cameras is that they come with all the adapters, cables, etc. that you need with clear instructions on how to achieve backfocus in various configurations. My experience with their customer service has been excellent. (I had the dreaded oil leak issue with my 2600, and they swiftly sent me a replacement.) After struggling in vain to get a Raspberry Pi to work, I can appreciate the appeal of the ASIAir, although I haven't been tempted by it because I don't want to be locked into one company's ecosystem.
Very interesting topic Dylan, loved your take on it. I do think ZWO's ability and willingness to bring out new products frequently and their ability to integrate their products with good software solutions is what is driving their popularity and success at the moment. I was an early adopter of the ASI1600MM-Cool (instead of a CCD camera I almost bought) and have never regretted that purchase. That camera is still doing good work for me 9 years later. When it came time to get a 2nd camera I was in the market for one of the 571 sensor based solutions and would gladly have gotten an ASI2600M but it was right during the issues with the TEC thermal pad contamination on the ZWO cameras so I went with the QHY268M instead. It has been good for me as well. I do like the build quality of the QHY cameras a little better but I think they have always struggled more with their software/firmware than ZWO. One of my first astro purchases was a QHY5L-II guide camera and I could never get it to run reliably due to driver issues. That kept me away from the QHY brand for quite a long time.
Your journey is very similar to mine! That old guider dropped so many frames. But the qhy268 has been solid !
Hey Dylan! Great video and a great topic! Hope you and the family are doing well!
Btw, I do love my strat. Not a '54 though.
Sometimes, iconic styled items shouldn't be changed, but left alone. Take for instance a simple design like the Bialetti "Moka (coffee) pot" from Italy. It's been around since the 1930's and on many stoves throughout the world today. It does what it needs to do, and does it very well. The Edsel car on the other hand didn't work out so much...
I have adopted ZWO equipment as the company is using today's tech to do amazing things and design products that we wish we had many years ago! They choose to design and create products and software that push the envelope and fit a certain niche in this hobby/market.
Every manufacture no matter how young or old will experience quality issues from time to time (airplane makers, cell phones that catch fire, etc) Some manufacturer's are also quicker on their feet to adapt to new processes and technology. Consumers get the last say whether they adopt company A or B based on needs, wants, value, performance, customer support and most important, the wife's approval. ;)
Great feedback! I agree.
I did ditch my Gibson Les Paul though. I like the classics but I don’t like the design flaws :)
I have been using Skywatcher optics and mount, with ZWO cameras in my observatory since 2020. Its been good to me.
Cheers from Oakland Bay Observatory
The little red camera keychain had me sold.
lol
lol mine fell off the key chain and had to be glued on.
I’ve always used ZWO because of how easy they are to use. I’m not an ASIAIR user, but I love their cameras! I also own their AM5, and it’s a magnificent mount!
I was impressed with the reviews for the ZWO AM5 mount so I started with that. It made sense to pair it with the ASI Air Pro. At that point, the ZWO 2600 MC camera was a logical addition (funny that the company started with cameras). I didn't intend buy a ZWO system, but the pieces were designed to work with each other. Finished with the ZWO EAF focuser.
I use both , nailed it with ascom compliance
You never forget your first. My 90 WO had a sexy black body, with golden rings and 3 air-spaced elements. I miss it so much
I have a ZWO as my main imaging camera and QHY as guider cam. No issues with either and happy with both. I'm able to get beautiful pictures with the ZWO and it's good enough for me.
I absolutely love how they're actually trying new designs. I mean, I've got multiple cameras and scopes, but the idea of a small setup that just has a camera, mount and scope which covers guiding and a built-in ASI-AIR is amazing for travel.
Perfect solution? Nope. But man they are trying and it's great to shake up this old-man's club.
I wish I'd started in this hobby now instead of 5 years ago.
Your remark about Fender and Gibson reminds me of something the legendary Marty Forscher (who repaired Nikons for New York professionals) said about film cameras back in the 1970s: If you ask professional photographers what the next camera should be like, they'll ask for living fossils, very minor variations on cameras they've had a long time. You have to ask amateurs or newcomers what the next camera should be like. (I'm paraphrasing, but the words "living fossils" were his.)
Haha exactly
Thanks for another thoughtful video! To me, ZWO’s three big moves in the industry were making ever-improving CMOS cameras affordable, making strainwave mounts affordable and then making beginner EAA affordable. The ASIAir has lots of fans too, but I prefer N.I.N.A. Apart from their attempts to lock users into their own ecosystem with the ASICap software and ASIAir, since like you I enjoy using varieties of brands, I really like their products. I especially love their AM5 strainwave. I’ve seen some other AP TH-camrs knock them for no other apparent reason than they are a Chinese company. Why? They are an optics company, not the Central Committee. May the market bless the makers and innovators of good products, and that’s what they do. Still, I always reserve the right to go with other brands if I think their stuff is better for me. I’ve yet to get a 571 sensor, but when I do, I’m going with PlayerOne. Their Poseidon has an accessible tilt plate on the back and the accompanying OAG has a bigger pickup prism. Still, I’m glad ZWO is there; they’ve done a lot for the imager and industry. Thanks again and cheers!
Well said !
I have to admit I love that red!
I'm running the ASKAR 500 and my trusted C11 EdgeHD and I think I've hit my sweet spot with capability. Both can take a full frame and have various focal lengths. Still trying to configure the C11 with my Nikon Z6a so it's still a big learning experience. One annoying thing was I was getting misshapen stars from locking my mirror clutches too tight. I went looking the forums for ZWO fan vibrations issues to Backfocus problems when all a long it was me locking the mirrors too tight. I am surprised it took this long to figure out. That being said I did add so more shock absorbers to the rear fan. The ZWO EAF was a great addition to the C11.
Zwo eaf has been great :)
As someone who has just started this journey, ZWO seam to do everything right. I ended up with WO redcat and guidescope and everything else zwo. Both cameras, asiair, am5 and filter wheel.
I do love my Meade quad 70mm. If I wanted a reflector def celestron edge hd 9.25 w hyperstar
They are making astro imaging easier for the masses. I started with dslr's, eqmod etc... it was sometimes a pain to get all the different things and software working nicely together. ZWO came along 1st with cameras, then asiair... it all just works and works well at a reasonable cost.
I loved the ASIAir+ when I was starting out, it was so simple to operate. If it supported other astro cameras, I would likely still have it. They have many products that interest me, but so do other manufacturers. When I got into this hobby they were already the popular camera brand, and they're doing the smart thing by branching out into other things such as telescopes and mounts. That brand name recognition will take them a long way.
Mate I ponders this as well watching the Neaf videos trickle through on TH-cam. ZWO = ecosystem and they do it well. Spot-on regarding software development. I started with ZWO and enjoyed the ecosystem; now I'm using a variety of brands: QHY, Primalucelab, Optec etc., and no ZWO.
Do I miss the ZWO ecosystem... Honestly I do a bit, but my astro has come so far since I've steered away to other brand and equipment.
Thanks Dylan.
At least for the American market, the biggest thing ZWO did was open a camera repair center in the states. So there’s the fact that if you’re sending in your camera for repair, you don’t have to ship it to China.
Huge difference. As someone living on the prison colony I know the pain.
I’ve had some trouble with Celestron. Mount didn’t work and electronic focuser broke my RASA but to their credit Celestron replaced it. For just build quality and optics I like William Optics.
I love Zwo. Had issues with the other major brand cameras.
Maybe in future we see some ZWO cameras with a heavy relic from the custom shop 😂🎉 nice comparison Dylan. I go with fender 😋🥰
Heheh yewww
Hey Dylan! You mentioned Active Optics in this video and Startlight Xpress had a prototype of a new focuser with Active Optics built-in at NEAF this past April...The particular one they had was designed specifically for the Celestron C-11 I believe. I don't see it on their website yet, but I spoke with them about it at the show, and it looks pretty promising. Something to keep an eye out for if this is something that interests you...Clear skies!
Oh really ?? Thanks for letting me know !
I use: ZWO for cameras, SeeStar, and most recently a small lightweight AM5 mount. I have Celestron C11 optical tube assembly, and Meade 250mm ACF, and occasionally use them. I have an Askar 600 and will be using it primarily with the AM 5 mount. I like my iOptron GEM 70 mount, but it stays assembled, and is difficult to carry outside due to its weight, however, it is a good mount. The AM5 is for lighter scopes and portability. I like the idea of intelligent telescopes like the new one from Celestron for $4000.00 USD, but will wait for this technology to improve before putting in any more major cash outlays.
To follow up on this, I don't even quite know why I buy this stuff, I live in Seattle, and most of the time its cloudy and overcast, but my job keeps me here.
I have used QHY, SX, QHY and ZWO cameras and gear. The only one I never had drivers issues was with ZWO. Truly plug and play.
Currently using ZWO but I almost started with QHY. Basically it came down to seeing more TH-camrs with ZWO. Damn the Jones 😅
I just ventured into Astrophotography after two years of visual. I just recently bought the Asiair mini, 120mm guide camera and the new ZWO ASI585MC Pro. Took out that other night nothing but failure on plate solving on polar alignment. Still trying to figure what happened. It might be my focus.
Just used ( 5/16/2024 ) my new ZWO-ASI1224MC $200 color planetary camera on a distant mountain peak to set it up with my Celestron 120mmX550MM achromat with a Baader semi appo filter and a short extension to bring the camera to focus and used the software planetary ASICap to do the stacking and post adjustments. It worked great and the image was very good and really easy to use. Now next is the moon and might have to use a light moon filter. The mount is a $200 Meade XL70 with motor on the RA. Next the planets Jupiter and Saturn. This has made it easy and fun. By the way will be 81 come July. Enjoy your channel
Hey fantastic! Terrestrial tests are great. You’re coming to star stuff live??
@@DylanODonnell Do not know what star stuff is. Live in the high desert of North west Arizona 3,700 ft where the humidity is usually around 10% or lower in the summer makes for very steady seeing. I will be star stuff in the not to distant future, see you from there.
Kind of interesting to mention this now. I was looking to set up an all sky cam (again). And recently zwo came out with a new cam. The 676 which is mostly just the square sensor version of the 678 which is just a slight upgrade from the 178, which I had both versions of Mc/mm. The main difference being the that the 676/678 are starvis 2. Versus the already really sensitive starvis. Not many other options that offer the specs/price of the 676 for allsky. I personally have a 7 camera meteor station that records video 24/7 and isolates meteors/fireballs with automated data compiling and calibrations. It’s 24fps and can create stacked images of meteors to see a streak similar to star trail creation. But it’s not the same as a single long exposure photo. It lacks good DR, color saturation and low read noise. All something that astro cams are good at. My meteor station did record the northern light here in Ohio and it was amazing how well the Imx291 starvis sensors showed the reds and greens in live video that the human eye could hardly see as well. So the new zwo cams that use starvis 2 should be even better (Surpasses human eye sensitivity).
Sounds like an amazing project !
@@DylanODonnell Except when I finally got all the parts to build the Allsky cam recently, I found that the software does not support the drivers for the 676 yet. I wish I knew how to insert the drivers into the files of the open source program. These what should be simple DIY projects, always somehow turn into a headache.
Thanks
Been using a Touptek IMX571 based camera because it was a a LOT cheaper than the ZWO - no regrets, and dont see any advantage to getting the equiv ZWO camera. I do like the idea of the 2600 duo though. Not a fan of the ASI Air personally.
I can only share my limited experience. I started with the ZWO Asiair Pro. It made things pretty easy. Eventually I got an observatory and graduated to a Primaluce Labs Eagle Pro with NINA running everything. I have 4 ZWO cameras and have had zero issues with them, so I have no opinion on ZWO customer service. I also have ZWO EAF's on all of my scopes, plus a ZWO filter wheel. All of these have worked perfectly for me. My big rig scope is a Celestron C11 (Big Fatty BBC). I have a William Optics GT81 refractor, which is fantastic. Also I have a Celestron C8. The Celestron SCT's have served me very well - zero issues. My first mount was a Celestron CGEM II. It served me well, BUT the RA motor went bad while still under warranty. I had to ship the mount for repair THREE times for the same repair. To their credit, they finally fixed it properly and never charged me a cent; on the other hand, that was 8 or 10 weeks total and quite a lot of clear nights with no mount. I upgraded the mount to an iOptron CEM 120, and it has been flawless - indeed, amazing - for 8 months now. Thanks for the excellent content, Dylan.
Excellent perspective and journey. Love a big fatty :)
ZWO for cameras , Celestron for the c11 hd Hyperstar , C8 HD and Paramount MTY is what I have landed on. I personally had a lot of trouble with Celestron mounts , iOptron was better but seems to be fading away to some extent. After all that I decided to go with reliablility and stop chasing the next best thing.
I'm am very interested in the ASI Air Integrated into a camera. This primarily because I want to use it to make Astrophotography accessible to our astronomy club members at our observatory for casual imaging use. This would make it an all in one instrument with minimum set up and minimum interconnections.
For comparison, A friend of mine got himself a fancy big TAKAHASHI with a fancy QHY CAMERA, then he had to wait until he got adapter and flattener for it, then his laptop broke, then he had problems with drivers, always something. Then extra mniPC, extra power supply for everything... It took him almost a year to make his setup to work with everything.
I got myself celestron 8HD and ZWO ASI2600MC PRO, EAF, ZWO ASI 290mm mini for guiding and I was always ready in quite short time and had good sleep on most of the nights while he was always fiddling with something. ASIAIR for the win
I bet his images were fire tho :)
@@DylanODonnell I hope so. But I don't know, he needs to get bigger harddrive to fit all of the images in. Still hasn't downloaded them yet.
I mean that's nice and all but that's probably just a temporary situation. Once he has it working, he's going to have a far superior setup lmao. Far better.
The fact it took him a year is a skill issue
I went ZWO when I started off because that’s what I saw the TH-camrs using. The ASI224MC had a good entry level price plus could do both planetary and deep space. Adding the ASIAir with its platesolving changed everything for me, but then also locked me into the ZWO ecosystem. The next step would be to go mono with filter wheel. Later EAF…. To use a different brand I would need to invest in a NINA solution which would take funds away from an aperture upgrade.
I have a collection of gear from a lot of companies. ZWO dominates my camera collection (3 cooled, 5+ uncooled), but I do have an older QHY camera, and some other random things I used for guide cameras. Some of the ZWO cameras I got predated the asiair, but the original asiair did lead to me buying the cooled cameras and EAF. And the seestar is fantastic. I'd like a better camera in it, but for someone who doesn't have a permanent observatory, it's a great "There's an hour of clear sky, I'll plop it down" device.
Who I really think is killing it on the hardware/accessory side is SVBONY. Their scopes are decent (not quite as good as William Optics, but only cost 1/2 or less of that), the filters are great bang for the buck, and the other random doodads just can't be beat. I haven't tried any SVBONY cameras (they only have a couple, and I'm pretty set for now), but I'm sure they are perfectly usable as well.
When I chose a camera, literature clearly pointed to ZWO cameras working with everything, other manufacturers were not so clear or bold.
For me its all to do with the ASI Air and its software. I don't want to bring a laptop out into the backyard when I can just use the asiair software from my phone/tablet to run everything. And by using the ZWO software you need ZWO cameras. The cameras seem to be built well and the software seems easy AF to use so why not.
I don't have everything ZWO but I do like their cameras. As long as everything is ASCOM compliant, I can pretty much set up different rigs for different purposes to use with NINA or ASIAir dependent on the set up (home vs travel).
Heh... funny you mention that thing where their cameras were vibrating the image train. I just had to replace the fan on my ZWO ASI2600MC Duo for the same problem.
Oh god !
I started using the Imaging Source DBK21AU618 and DMK21AU618 cameras back in 2010 (great cameras for their time), but switched to ZWO and have never looked back.
I have a few ZWO products. They work very well and I'm overall happy with them. I just don't care for the fact that they've locked down the ASIAir, although I understand the decision to do so. It basically ensures it's plug and play with all their devices and they don't have compatability issues. I have heard a number of people have issues with certain mounts from certain manufacturers though, which does give me a bit of pause when considering integrating one into my own setup. Still, good company with great products, so credit where credit is due.
well player one does a good job too,they make very good cooled cameras,with much more options then zwo and for a good price.
I am really interested to see where svbony is going. Not inovators, thats true, but their options are towards the lower end of the budget. I got the SV405CC, which is basically a 294 camera for just $650 new (taxes and all expenses paid). Trouble with them, as i have seen people complaining online, is their hit and miss QC and customer support, but I just hope, for the sake of lower budget astrophotographers, that this can change towards good.
A sensor is a sensor!
Love it or hate it, ZWO ace in the hole is its proprietary system. I can take my fully equipped ZWO scope out and set it up in a few minutes and have everything talk to each other, and it just works. Like apple products.
This is their biggest fault also. It would be nice to be able to use someone else’s equipment, but that’s not allowed. I’m not a fan of ZWO’s guide cameras, for instance, and it would be nice to be able to use something different.
My second scope, a C8, runs on NINA, and is a pain in the butt to get up and keep everything working smoothly. It always takes at least half an hour to set up IF everything goes smooth, and sometimes a lot longer.
As far as customer service goes, I’ve had a very positive experience working with ZWO. Not so much with some others (I’m looking at you Celestron).
I’m slowly rebuilding my C8 to be ZWO centric, but I’m just a poor retired guy so it takes awhile.
My Solar scope is all ZWO accessories now, and it is so much nicer to work with.
I Have Metallic Red Dove Tail Bars On My Evoguide And Evostar,Looking For Red Rings For The Evoguide😊I Like It Over The Metallic Green..But I Do Love The All White Mount.Everything Just Looks Sharp And Clean To Me..Clear Skies❤️✨🔭
Pissed in their cornflakes ha ha love it Dylan!! I think why the brand is doing well is the introduction of the ASi air which is a great product but has some dubious legality issues within the open source community which has pissed off some of the developers & ZWO have just given them the finger & not contributed anything back. As you say a sensor is a sensor so no cameras from different brands with the IMX571 chip will outdo another brand as they all work pretty much the same. I know you like Apple Dylan & I think ZWO are trying to do the same & lock everyone in to their products but for me I'll stick with a brand that has good customer service as I'm based in the UK I stick with using Altair cameras simply because if there is a problem they will sort it even if its out of warranty.
It's funny.. part of the reason I love apple is I'm a unix sys admin .. so I love the Darwin sub system which *is* open sourced and based on BSD :) but I have a PC for games ;)
ZWO has revolutionized amateur astronomy, in ease, quality, and price. We can do so much more with our gear, with much less drama in object location, focusing, polar alignment, and soon, camera alignment. I get that they lock you into their ecosystem with the ASIAIR, but that's not the problem many people think it is, b/c their stuff is so good, and so well priced.
I have ZWO gear like there EAF and my guide camera 120mm-s and will get me a planetary camera as well. But for my Astro camera I will go for Player one. They use the same chip and have seen great reviews on it. But most importantly I can get 2 player one cameras for the prices off one ZWO.
I have an explore Scientific Ed 80 carbon fiber and an ED102 CF and their service and turn around time cant be beat. I have sent each of these scopes for cleaning and collimation twice. Explore sends a discounted UPS sticker which saved me about 50% of the return postage. Turnaround time was around three weeks but they serviced both scopes (which came back spotless) and charged me zero, Nada, nothing and even shipped the scopes back to me at no charge. Just based on the scopes optics and service, I love Explore Scientific. I also have a Celestron 9.25. When I cracked the corrector plate, it cost about $100 bucks just for one way shipping. a new corrector plate, collimation and return shipping was over $650 dollars.
That’s actually amazing
I've had a few different brands of cameras over the years- ZWO cams work pretty well and I like the fact that they got a unified driver out early on. QHY software feels like it should be running on Windows 3.1 but it works well enough. I do feel like the QHY cams are somehow sturdier and I prefer black to the ZWO red. My newest camera acquisition is a 571 sensor camera but it's an Altair (26c). It's just fine also. I got it used for a great price on CN. I don't swear by any brand (except I totally agree with you on Skywatcher mounts). I will say that ZWO took a big blocker down for noobz with the ASIair. Like the Seestar, it's not perfect but it is very much enables people to get into astronomy who otherwise might have shied away because of the learning curve. Like them or not, ZWO is here to stay.
When I bought my first astro camera years ago, I soon narrowed my choice down to zwo and qhy. Both companies at that point in time, were the only ones offering cmos at a good price. To me, at that time, it seemed that qhy cameras were better except intwo areas. One was the support for linux, which qhy lacked. The other was that qhy seemed to have issues with electrical interference affecting image download. But their cameras had internal memory, and zero amp glow. ZWO cameras at that time had no internal cache memory, and suffered from amp glow. Although I was very much in favour of qhy, in the end I chose ZWO, because their cameras were compatible with linux. For my next camera, I will probably go for cheaper brands, like Omegon.
ZWO is the only reason I still do this hobby. I used to use NINA and all that but with the ease of use of the ASI Air, I will never go back. Set it up in 10 minutes and you’re up and running. Had I still been using the old system, I would have given up years ago
Great perspective
F2 scopes, I think whoever focuses on the seestar type stuff and getting f2 speed like a 135mm f2 samyang lens. Is where it is. The majority of people are not technical and like my mother loves the Seestar and ease of use and cell phone EAA via wifi will do well.
Frankly as a new comer the two things that made me get ZWO equipment is the awesome AM5 mount and their ASIair, not the cameras. But using an ASIair means you gotta use their cameras.
I think both QHY and ZWO have a monopoly, I literally don't care if I have either camera (they integrate the same sensors equally IMO). I just think the two companies make their products more available to the market unlike companies like SBIG or other more niche AP camera companies. They are kind of like the Nikon, Canon and Sony but for the astro world. ZWO is doing better because they're expanding out to other things like the air and strain wave mounts. But at the same time, they're kind of like Skywatcher, they found their niche and the rest is somewhat forgotten sometimes.
Interesting point.
ZWO? It’s the red. 🤔 Visual Astronomy forever! 😊
Starizona FTW!
Zwo is indeed a major player now, that is one reason i bought the Am5 mount this month, i am not sure though that the decision with asiair to work only with zwo cameras is still the right one though. What do you think?
The AM5 looks like a great mount! I'd still buy it but I'm yet to be sold on the air.
@@DylanODonnell I don t like the restrictions, to work only with zwo cameras is a big distavantage if you have also other brands
I still have a Polaroid instamatic I bought back in 1972, good camera.
Hehe nice
Well, I have a Celestron SCT and a WO refractor, both on Skywatcher mounts, both with ASIAIR and ASI cameras, ASI cameras on the guide scopes, and a ZWO EAF on the SCT. I guess I'm on the popularity bandwagon, but I love my builds, they meet all my needs. I hated the ASIAIR when I first got it, so I stuck with NINA, but they made some major changes to the interface and now the ASIAIR is my favorite. On the guitar note, I have a Fender acoustic and a Charvelle/Jackson CSM-1G (original owner) and it's about 25 years old.
Nice .. is the Jackson for metal shreds?
@@DylanODonnell blues mainly, but it was punk in the early days, and classic rock
In NZ it is very hard to get ZWO locally. I would imagine a poll here in Kiwiland would put QHY on top. If we want ZWO, we need to buy from Aus and pay the import fees.
True, I've still got a QHY9 CCD in my collection, still a good camera, only use it for 15min plus exposures though to get above the noise.
You can also purchase direct from ZWO and have it shipped from China. Will usually arrive in less than a week.
It feels to me that ZWO is buying their way into a superior market position by innovating faster than other companies and that is great unless they achieve that position and then move to a completely closed ecosystem.
My small set up, which is also my first and only, is ZWO, WO & Star Adventurer 2i centered around an ASI Air.
This was an informed decision as I wanted something easy to learn with and this didn’t mind being limited by the air’s compatibility limitations.
My second set up (down the road) might utilize ZWO equipment provided they are still ascom compatible but will likely be centered around NINA or some other system.
ZWO has a ton of upside IMO
I just get concerned about where the company might be taking things.
Great topic.
Great feedback!
Software is THE reason I bought ZWO stuff from auto focuser to the cameras to the ASIair
Cool video. ZWO have been bleeding me dry since I started with a Seestar ( I knew it was going to be a trojan horse ) . Re telescopes any idea of competition between Skywatcher and Celestron is illusory as they are both owned by Chinese company Synta .
I think ZWO have the popular market due to being the low cost leaders in cameras and cool integrated products like mounts ( some which are not so cheap )
thanks.. and yep! The price point has always been just a tiny bit better.. and in a hobby where every dollar counts I can see the appeal.
Even if you do have a faulty product, ZWO will walk you through to see if you can do a self repair, and if you can't or mess up, they will repair it for you at no charge. That trip to in from China takes like a month though. I just thought it was interesting that they asked me to take a camera apart when doing that would void warranties on other products. So I had a good experience with their service when my cooling stopped working
I have the impression that ZWO is on course to an "apple-ization", i.e. vertical integration - monopsony - price gouging. I recently bought my first Astro cam, a guide Cam, and decided against them for this reason (and some specific problem with the 120mm I was considering).
Now I'm considering buying an imx 533 cooled camera. I saw a good deal on an asi 533 MC Pro, a good 30% off. I compared it to the Player One Ares C Pro, calculated what it would cost to add the dew heater and tilt adapter that one has integrated and found them to be about the same price after that, with PO being a lot neater. So, there already seems to be a ZWO "tax" similar to the Apple "tax" and for me, who prefers open source software and systems it makes no sense to pay that.
I use zwo and the ASIAIR. I just wish they would make it so I could use my eq6rpro with two scopes and two cooled cameras at the same time. Maybe a setting to make one asiair the “slave”, just to take photos and cool the secondary camera set up. The “primary” asiair could do all the other stuff like dither and meridian flip. If any of that makes sense…