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PEX vs COPPER for Plumbing - Which Should You Use and Why?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2020
- PEX vs COPPER! Today I’m going to talk about the differences between PEX and copper and help you determine which you should use in your home and on your plumbing jobs.
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Thanks for watching! I'm Roger Wakefield, LEED AP, The Expert Plumber and welcome to my channel. On this channel I teach homeowners how to save money on their plumbing by doing DIY plumbing projects. I also teach plumbers and plumbing company owners how to be the best plumbers in their area and run successful plumbing businesses. My goal is teach you everything you need to know about plumbing.
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Which do you use more often and why? Let me know!
Check out the reason why I don't use Sharkbites: th-cam.com/video/3GNQwuLbKkg/w-d-xo.html
Roger Wakefield Pex all the way, only cus We don’t use copper anymore
Used both. great videos man!
Pex is like my sister, fast and cheep.
I'd go with copper/bronze, because it has less problems with leaks at the connector from newbie plumbers crimping them on wrong. As for metal, even a diy/ jack of all trades can put a flare on a copper/bronze pipe.
When we bought our house, we converted the copper to PVC when we upgraded the hot water line.
I work at home depot and this man has taught me valuable lessons that i have been able to use while helping customers
@Jack Myhre a delivery truck has arrived
Home Depot. You should go back to school. Or do a trade. That place is a dead end
@@BlkOut305 im actually making more in my position here then my last sales job, so, maybe you being the lot guy was a dead end but if you have any ambition what so ever you could have gotten on salary and all that
Dude I am following in your steps having no prior experience in plumbing 😅
Realistically if you are not licensed you should not be educating or suggesting techniques to customers when selling products. Any time codes or insurance is involved you could be held liable. Again pick your battles, its pretty easy to tell if a customer is up to speed on code but may not know of a particualr product to solve their problem compared to somebody that should just not be allowed to own a property that they are in charge of maintaining. A lawsuit can be messy, and likely as a retail employee, your company will not fork the expense to vouch for your integrity. Most also have policies regarding advice regarding code compliance advice etc, best brush up on it.
Copper is code in Chicago, the Mafia hasn't figured out how to profit from plastic yet.
Same with conduit. We are the only place in the country that uses it.
@@frothybeaver4869 Are you saying that all electrical wiring has to be shrouded in conduit? Just curious because that’s wild.
@Nouse Foraname copper is very valuable, so anytime they can change it to plastic and keep the copper they will
Same thing in NYC. You would never see pex or PVC. In the suburbs yes, but not in the 5 boroughs.
@@micahmaoney4602 Chicago has had some bad fires... makes taking some extra precautions seem a bit less wild, no?
THE INTRO IS HITTING SO HARD! HAHAHAHHHA This vid deserves MORE VIEWS! Thank you for sharing, Roger & Co.!
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!!!
As a home inspector I found one of the best ways I have seen pex installed is to sleeve it with polly pipe especially under concrete and underground installations, also if you can run the pex all the way from the source to the water outlet with the pex inside the polly pipe then it is very unlikely the pex will develop holes inside it. The polly pipe also acts as another insulator against cold weather and sharp rocks in the ground. If you get a hole in the pex for some reason as long as the polly is not crushed, you can pull out the old pex and insert a new one within a few minutes instead of having to dig up the ground or jackhammer the concrete out, yes it costs more up front, but the peace of mind it gives might just be worth it. The other advantage to this method is if for some reason the pex develops a hole along the way which is highly unlikely, the water leak comes out the ends of the polly not inside the wall. Another reason is that pex is prone to sunlight damage with pex inside a sun resistant pipe you are less likely to have problems with sun rot with the pex if it is exposed to the elements in any way although I don't recomend using pex where the sun coud get at it. So for those not familiar with plumbing you are putting a pipe with in a pipe to protect the inner pipe. Costs more up front but works very well.
Makes sense, *anything* going through the ground or concrete should be in conduit, just to ease maintenance.
The problem with plastic pen fittings is if any and I mean any glue or primer possibly gets on that fitting it cracks and breaks
Any buried pex must be run in pvc conduit!!! It's crosslinked plastic and oil and impurities will over time leach through the pipe and into the water while breaking it down as well. It also needs to be shielded from UV as that destroys the plastic as well leading to it becoming brittle and cracking in as little as 5 years. The best thing about PEX from a plumbers perspective is the knowledge that its going to fail prematurely and you will get paid to do it all over with copper properly in a decade or so. It's like money in the bank lol
Thank you! I need to repipe my main water line from the meter and I’m going to steal your idea
Until a rodent chews through it come home to find water running out your front door you think just boarded the USS Titanic.
Thanks for another great video Roger, good clear instruction. In my house I have Polybutylene, and under the bathroom vanity when the shutoff valve finally started leaking, the only way to convert from polybutylene pipe stub out was to use a SharkBite "poly to copper" adapter to convert the poly pipe water line from the wall to copper, it is a special fitting that accepts poly on one side, copper tube on the other side. Once I plug this Shark Bite adapter onto the poly pipe convert to copper tube, then I use a standard compression shut off valve for the replacement. I only use the Shark Bite in a spot where I can see it, like under the vanity. I will never use one inside a wall. I hope one day to convert the whole house to copper or PEX.
I'm a plumber apprentice in Central Texas and love your channel, am learning alot from watching you. Thank you for what you do for the TH-cam community, seriously, this sort of knowledge always helps alot!.
why is this plumber's channel so high production value? wow!
I've finished multiple basements in CO using PEX, and I've got to say, I love it! It is so easy to work with, can bend around corners so you don't need to do multiple joints. I've noticed higher water pressures as well, and little to no heat loss.
When you bury pex underground, you lay it with wire to locate later. The location is also suppose to be marked by the city (at least around here) to make it easier to locate. Call the city if you ever need help locating. They can be a plumbers best friend! Some cities around my home town make us use copper for the water line coming into the house. We tried using pex in one city and they made us rip it out and get copper. Always make sure to check with the city before installing!!
We recently got our house repiped and was told about pex but we went with copper because we wanted to keep with the “tried and true”. Love your videos! Very informative!
me too
Yeh copper is the best thing to do
I prefer copper as well
In Finland we’ve been using PEX in sleeving for at least 30 years, and I’ve never heard of any issues. Most modern installs use wall fittings that terminate both the sleeve and the pipe, so that if the pipe ever starts leaking, it’ll be contained in the sleeve and overflow into the boiler room where the manifold is, and where you’d have a floor drain to catch it. We don’t use the crimps though, it’s mostly compression fittings on PEX and then over to copper or chromed copper which is mostly Mapress fittings these days. We’re also seeing coated aluminum quite a lot now, but it’s more used on the industrial side.
I have used more pex pipe in recent years, binge watching your youtube right now, got the notification and hopped off one of your other vids to watch this one! respect ✊
As a plumber, I would use pex on my own house. The only tip I would give is DO NOT install a hot water recirculating pump and keep your water heater at 130 degree max. If you do those two things, the pipes should last forever. Overly hot water is the thing that causes pex to fail.
I'm glad you brought up pex and freezing capabilities. I had a ¾ water line that was running from the house to a garage under the ground. It was in one of the coldest places in Pennsylvania. When the customer put it in, he thought that 3' below was acceptable because he was told that's the rule of thumb for water lines below for frost line. However, because of the type of soil and the extreme cold temperatures in his area. We determined frost line to be a bit over 4'. We were called because he didn't have water in the garage and couldn't figure out why and thats when we came to the conclusion it had froze. It was also the coldest day of the year to that point. I believe we saw temperatures at -40⁰. When we got it dug up, what a process with the frozen ground BTW, the pipe had swollen in various spots. It swelled to about 3" in diameter in one spot. But IT NEVER LEAKED!! We cut it out, dug further down, laid new pipe, back filled it, and good to go.
Damn son
Always interesting to see building code differences from different areas. Here in Canada every home has a city/municipality water shut-off, usually buried in the front lawn, that is only allowed to be accessed by the water authority. A second shut-off, which is accessible to the homeowner, is installed just ahead of the meter inside the home in case there is a need to shut down the entire dwelling due to a leak or for repairs. Stop-cocks are required at all lavatories, toilets, laundry, kitchen sinks and all outdoor hose spigots have an indoor shut-off so they can be closed and drained for winter. The only exception is the tub & shower supplies, but I always install shut-off valves there too, with an access panel, if at all possible. Water distribution is never run through attics, garages or anywhere due to winter temperatures. I just started using PEX a few years ago. Great product for new installations and it combines very well with existing copper systems.
I installed copper in my Victorian home. It's naturally antibacterial, rust resistant and rodent proof. I would never use pex on a pier and beam house or you're risking rodents chewing through it. Great video Roger. I love your videos!
If you do a manifold or home run system with fixtures within 60 feet, most codes allow you to do one size smaller pipe.
Means smaller, easier to run tubing with less waiting for the hot water to arrive.
With type A or Uponor, if you cause a kink, you can eliminate the kink with a heat gun. With other types, you have to eliminate (replace) the kinked section
Because Uponor uses expansion at the fittings, the fittings are larger and less of a restriction to flow compared to other types of Pex.
Uponor was developed in the 1940s, used since the 1950's in Germany, has the longest history. Other types were developed decades later.
Pex is sensitive to UV, cannot be left exposed to the sun or fluorescent lights for extended periods.
Pex is also sensitive to oxygen, in particular to the minor amount of dissolved oxygen in your water system, especially in heated water systems.
Accelerated testing indicates that Pex should last over a century with 140F water
Also, pex is not rodent proof.
A few areas of the country have very acidic water which will eat copper. Have to use plastic.
There is also a type D.
It is all based on water fixture units, as well as pipe size to meet that need, please read water distribution section of code book...
i worked on a "modular home" a few years back that was built in a factory using pex. After they insulate the floors they use 10 mil black plastic for a vapor barrier. Rats got up inside and followed the pipes for warmth and chewed holes through the pex whenever they got thirsty! I like the flexibility during install, but find properly installed/ insulated copper or even galvanized iron will out live most homeowners.
Truly bro as a plumber those rats were chewing through anything to get to that water. Rats are the fucking absolute worst
I live in a double wide built in the early 80's and the only plumbing problem i've had is aging pipes but the heating vent...I've a flexible vent tube that comes out of the bottom of the furnace crosses over in the crawl space of the trailer and comes up on the other side of the divide. I understand the necessity due to shifting of the level on each side over time but I spent a winter heating the the crawlspace when rodents of squirrel or other form discovered it and chewed holes right through it. Well it's replaced now that I understand it's purpose and I built a fucking wire cage around it.
So you need to set up a side hustle renting out barn cats.
ive seen rats chew thru copper.
@@kennethtroisi7799 Raccoons give them a run for their money.
Built my house in 2014... paid up for copper and I still feel it was a worthwhile investment.
Living in the future? What's it like?
Do they use pex in the future? What was the other alternatives to copper? But good to know they still using copper anyway👍🏽
Copper kills bacteria and microbes
Built your house 100 years from now? Lol
Definately keeping this in mind when I have my house built.
Pex.,Haha where can I buy the Roger Wakefield arcade game? looks like a fun one lol
I used to work for a company that strictly installed CPVC and when I first started plumbing, I thought that was great. Until one day I got to work with PEX and man did that change my life. Having to repair CPVC with water still in the line was always a hassle cause water would never allow the glue to settle properly. And with PEX, I didn’t have to worry about none of that. And for that I love PEX more than anything out rn
Cpvc is good dumpster fodder.
Pex is also easier to cut and is flexible which is awesome.
fun fact in cold environments, it comes into the house in the basement below the frost line and the main shut-off is easy to access in the basement.
Just had major remodel work done at my home in CO. It started with my neighbor needing an emergency sewer replacement soooo I had mine scoped and sure enough, I needed it done too.
Long story short, we ended up getting a new complete sewer system from the sidewalk all the way under the house, new furnace, on demand water heater, water softener, air conditioner and copper plumbing replaced. I chose pex for several reasons and probably the most important was that I could fix it if needed. Sure enough I needed to fix a line just days after the job was completed because I drilled a hole in a line. I have since put blocking plates over the studs where the pex runs through. I do have some copper but if it were my choice it’s all be pex. Even before the water softener was installed my water tasted better and I had much better flow & pressure.
I’m not a plumber but am a DIY guy and love that I can now remodel, fix, replace or repair just about anything in my home. My hats off to the real skilled old school plumbers that still know how to do sweat joints and are truly artists when it comes to copper! You people are amazing in what you do! RW, thanks for the videos! What you do is greatly appreciated!
I’d love to learn how to properly do sweat joints and “weld” ... soldering copper so if you can find time to give us all a how to video on proper techniques of soldering copper i know it would be well received and greatly appreciated. Thanks RW,
Cheers!
S.
Rodger, great video. You hit on a lot of great comparisons and good questions. I have work in the gas industry for the past 35 years in the St.Louis metropolitan area & like you probably seen more changes in the last 15 years then the previous 20. Just like the gas industry , any underground installation that is not metallic should be installed with a trace wire. You are a big fan of casings & rightly so. When dealing with concrete slabs it should be mandatory for any water service to be sleeved and not just for protection but for easy of replacement. What if they come out in 40 years and say there's some health hazard with PEX or some big recall. Tell me how nice would it be to be able to slide the old PEX out pulling a fish tape an sliding the new PEX in using the fish tape, because the previous plumber installed a casing pipe ? This is already mandatory in the gas industry ( gas services are not allowed to go under a building slab unless they are in cased in an airtight service casing with one vent to the atmosphere outside). The Uponor expansion system is very close to Lycofit in the gas industry, used for polyethylene pipe up to 2 inch. We have been using Lycofit for decades & the only leaks we ever found was due to improper installation ( improper stab depth).
Rodger keep up the good work and your enthusiasm in the industry; I'm always looking forward to your next video.
"If they come out in 40 years and say there's some health hazard with PEX or some big recall," I mean, this is reason enough for me to stick with copper in the first place.
Do you think Uponor is good for an apartment? I am a very confused (non-expert) user who has to choose between old school floor heating which is 10cm (3,9'inches) and the new Upomor, which they suggest is done without floor isolation and Is only 5 cm (1,9" inches)?
@@galenachannel ,I would say meet with your Uponor supplier and possibly district rep in your area to discuss your particular needs in the buildings that you work on. They should be there to help you and answer any questions.
@@boby115 only one sells Uponor, so I cannot receive enough information by him.
@@galenachannel , Sorry to hear that. I would say just do your due diligence, learn what you can, learn from your mistakes and call the manufactures technical service department when you must. I’m sure in no time you will be the go to guy in your community for the expertise and knowledge on this subject. Stay safe and keep learning👍🛠
Well im a plumber- and when/if I build my own place I'm gonna use both, for the long straight runs normally witch are 3/4 pipe and the tee's coming off it witch could be 3/4 or 1/2 to maybe a 1 foot before it goes up out of the ceiling in the basement and into these tightly packed 2x4 wall there putting in, that where I will switch it to pex. To me pex is just simpler to work with under cabinet and weev up/down and behind/infront of stuff in walls to get to that just right spot. FYI the pex I would use is Pex-a
Im a residential new construction apprentice and we do the shutoff valve in the garage wall, it makes everything so much easier during the build process as far as repairs, and then when we do warranty work as well. We also went to doing only uponor throughout the house a year or so ago and also am very much enjoying that, using a little milwaukee expansion tool is so much quicker than using crimpers, especially in tight spots.
I work at Menards in the plumbing department and your videos are really helpful . Its nice to have a good knowledge about plumbing and with this knowledge I can help costumers, Ive learned so much from you Mr.Wakefield Thank you !
I install dialysis water systems. We use pre insulated uponor, it's one of the only material approved for purified water for dialysis in Illinois. It's a breeze to work with and has never failed. And it's cheap and fast.
One of my big concerns with anything other than copper pipe was worrying about chemicals like plasticizers leaching out. Is pre-insulated uponor different from pex? Is it a special kind of pex?
Would love to hear a response to TheBudgetBee
TheBudgetBee PEX is polyethylene, which is one of the most food safe plastics there is. And PEX is non-reactive as well, which copper isn’t.
All plastics are patroleum based. You can't get away from leaching of the oils it's based on. It's the main reason the surface is slick. It may not be a huge amount all at once, but like everything it's not the single dose. It's the dosage over time that causes problems. "Food safe" measures the single allowable doseages.
@@williamallen7836 you are not right. It doesn’t work that way.
I use both. Depending on the project and whats existing. Pex is quick and easy, low cost but if it is exposed like in a basement, it can be hard to make it look nice and clean. My personal choice type L copper. If you have the experience and know what your doing, it looks professional and its time tested to last. Besides a good solder joint is a work of art. Your personal signature and a sign of how much time you have invested in your profession.
Great point! I love that.
I agree. Soldering is an art. Who knows what chemicals can leach out of plastic pex. It’s cheap. Copper is king.
@@RogerWakefield is it true that Uponor has a class action lawsuit because of failure?
I work in California, mainly construction. My boss and I have been specializing in Uponor pex in recent years, but there's something of a compromise we do with both pex and copper. While pex is great for running lengths of pipe in the house, we actually tend to stub out of walls for sinks, toilets, and garden hoses in copper, because it's just more rigid and stable than pex. Plus the pex anglestops are more expensive, so we usually do compression stops on copper lines.
But yes, pex is cheaper and more efficient than copper, and it saves us half the time and labor of piping an entire house in copper. However if it's just a quick remodel, if copper is there, and there is not a whole lot of repiping to do, we'll do copper.
PEX is the best way to go when I fix all three leaks myself for an old property with multiple old PVC pipe leaks. I replaced them with red and blue PEX B from local Home Depot using Sharkbite to transition over from old PVC. The entire upstairs full bathroom plumbing was entirely replaced without issues using multiple shut-offs, L-shape, T-shape, and direct connection fittings by Sharkbite.
Thank you for the video! I was asking myself the questions, why pex vs copper? In my house I have pex and every time I've made modifications I found super easy to do. I always wondered why some people used copper, but thanks to your great video I now know. I honestly was worried that because pex is cheaper it's not as good, but you cleared that up for me. Thanks agin!
I still solder every day.. I love copper and Upanor.. when I re route it’s always upanor
We usually use regular PEX and crimp rings, but have recently used some uponor, there are pros and cons for both.
you mean uponor? it's finnish brand and one of the best on the game
@@biblethumper6284 what do you feel are the downsides to upon vs pex B ? ??
Recently discovered you and I really like this video. Recently bought a house and we knew there was some work to be done. Once we started it was a bit worse than we though. Lucky for me, my dad and brother are in construction, I was too until I traded it for an office chair and an extra 40 lbs. We replaced all the plumbing, galvanized water lines and cast iron sewage lines. At some point the previous owner had the main sewage line replaced with pvc but all the branch offs, especially kitchen sink, had rusted through causing floor damage. Not to mention that the pvc had not been primed so it was all loose. We aren’t plumbers but my dad has had licensed plumbers work for him and teach him. Still not the same thing but we know a thing or two. Reason for pex: cheaper, easier to install, and I really like the product. One thing I learned from the video: there are three types. Now I have some research to do but you did confirm that expansion connections are the best. Trying to get my dad to switch to it.
We live in Tennessee and our home is plumbed with copper; it was built in 1991. We have had a section of copper pipe develop pin hole leaks. I thought the pipe was just sweating but eventually realized it was leaking. We had a pro replace that section with PEX. We also had a pipe in the garage freeze and split. Due to these experiences, I definitely prefer PEX! Bonus with PEX: no one wants to steal your pipes!
I'm from Europe and I find funny to hear how people from Texas says:whhaaatttt :)))cool video
Dont make fun of texas i tell you hwhat
I'm from the US, and WE think it is funny how they talk! Lol
That intro is just awesome XD
Southern US plumbing codes are very different compared to Northern US. Texas plumbing codes are just failures waiting to happen. lol
@@ezekieo32 Yes, TX is a business-friendly state.
Yeah, I think PEX is the way to Go, especially after hearing you talk about ALL of its advantages. I'm not a plumber , BUT I've Heard that PEX has been successfully used in Germany for like 50 years, and Germans are known for being efficient and doing things properly. I'm a German-American, BUT I'm STILL trying to be objective here!!😀
Was developed in the 1940s in German, so closer to 70 years
@@osmanvincent1975
Even BETTER- thanks for the info.
Easiest to repair that's for damn sure.
Recently got rid of the galvanized water lines in my house and went with pex. It's the convenience and flexibility of it. Less fitting means less chance of a leak. And it was a LOT more reasonable than copper. Love your videos, really appreciate the advice. Thanks.
I bought a house built in the late 50s and replaced all the galvanized piping with PEX with a manifold and I absolutely love it.
I prefer using Uponor pex but I use a lot of pex B as well and copper but where I am I've been having to replace pex B brass fittings after about 7 to 10 years because of Corrosion so I use plastic fittings on both pex A and B
@Todd Lenard I haven't had any problems with the plastic fittings, think about it if the plastic fittings fails then the PEX tube will fail same process slightly different compound. Don't know where you live but I'd be dang scared of the water if it eats plastic fittings because you can drop the plastic fittings in acid and a couple days later use them on your job.
I saw stainless pepper fittings just yesterday for the first time prefer metal over plastic fittings try stainlrds
I've seen vanguard pex crimp style kink in an attic, and then start leaking 10 years later here in California. Other than that I never had a problem with pex in 4 years installing residential. I have never installed it commercially. We only use copper for that. I have only heard of rats biting through pex pipe but never have experienced it.
I completely replumbed my 1950's ranch style about a year and a half ago. It was plunbed with 1/2" galvanized piping , I replaced everything with pex A . I had a local plumber replace the line from the meter into my crawlspace. Had him bore it so minimal damage to my yard and it was the best decision I ever made.
Hi, George. Did you have the new water service line run under the slab or in the ceiling? My old pipe (my house is 21 years old) is not copper, and i want to run the new line that goes from the meter to my concrete wall, then over the (basement) ceiling to the main valve. Is it technically safe to run pex pipe this way ? Thank you!
@@HienPhan-mj4co the plumber that I used that ran the new service from the meter to my house, had a company that used a underground boring machine. As far as pex underground yes that's what they installed.
Pex A is the way of the future for all the reasons you mentioned. It trumps copper in just about every way possible and has been around long enough to prove it lasts. I replace copper with Pex anytime I can!
One thing I'd like to add, Pex B has one inferiority. The fittings restrict flow because the female end has a smaller diameter then the piping. It's easy to miss this detail and miscalculate the size of pipe you use for your main line, and then you find that there is very little pressure at the other end of the house. You don't have that issue with Pex A.
I don't trust PEX, biologically. People talk about the toxicity of copper as though it's inherently toxic, but ultimately it's an essential cofactor in several vital enzyme systems. It just makes sense.
This is why I'm not sure I would ever want a house with a manifold. I prefer the idea that when I go for a drink of water that there is less chance for the water to have been stagnant. Same goes for special pot filler faucets by cooktops.
Plastik particels are anywhere. In a few years it will be an essential health cofactor too
Thank you for the info...I think PEX...especially UBUNOR will work well in NYC...have an old home and trying to get to it's original skeleton..1930's...but I am here...been researching and I like plex UBUNOR system
Really like your videos sir....ive been a plumber for 48 years(that's how old I am lol) but it's sorta true. My dad was a plumber and had his own business...i worked for him..he passed away almost 14 years ago and I been on my own since then. I agree with just about everything I've seen on your channel.
Uponor is crazy cool. I used to work at a plumbing supply in CT. We sold viega pex crimp system and started carrying uponor later on and it was neat. So easy to work with. You could even kink the pipe hit it with the heat gun and its back to new. Also you cant accidently forget to seal a joint with uponor because you can't dry fit it and forget about it. Ive seen so many plumbers forget to crimp a joint and turn water back on and start flooding a house.
That intro... fire
What do I need to play it? A c64 or a Sega Saturn?
Thx for the video, made it clear, as I was and am a copper guy
Sega CD lol
Hey, I'm an electrician who does property maintenance side work which often involves plumbing. Really enjoying your channel. At this stage, I have no idea why anyone would even consider doing copper. You went over most of the advantages of PEX in your video, another I would add is the absence of joints in a long run. If you have a 50, 100 ft run of PEX, that's an unbroken piece of tubing, where with copper or CPVC there would be 5 fittings with each of them a potential failure point.
Then also every time you put in a t or an elbow you lose pressure. PEX you can crow fly and maximize your pressure. I mean, I'm not a plumber but that's correct right? Less fittings + smooth turns = better pressure?
Also, I have a story. I am Nashville based. I have a friend who bought a house before the city started booming. She remodeled the top half and air bnbs it and doesn't have to work a job. Lives in the bottom half. So basically she started getting water leaks in her ceiling. Apparently, Nashville city water, at least in that part, has chemicals that will eat copper pipe from the inside. She had a plumber who came out to fix a pinhole leak in the copper and he told her that, and that it would probably start leaking in other places in a few weeks and it did.
So, she asked me to do the work. I replumbed all of it with pex, plus moved a drain, in exchange for a minivan which has ended up being the best work vehicle I ever had. I used sharkbites on it bc im not actually a plumber. I know it's not the best but whatevs. It'll last 20 years+. Anyway so yeah, copper is a metal and metal corrodes. Why anyone would use it is crazy to me especially now when it's $4 a pound for scrap.
I used copper when I built the log home i currently live in. It was installed in 1991 and have had to replace copper pipe because of rotted pin holes in the pipe. I believe in copper pipe is the best way to plum water. The problem is the big box stores are selling junk thinner wall pipe and people don't realize it. Hard to find good copper pipe
Nobody ever addresses the fact that PEX fittings restrict the water flow to the next pipe size smaller. This must have some detrimental effects. What are they? What can be done about it without using "SharkBite" fittings. And lastly, Isn't SharkBite a good way to keep from reducing the pipe size at each fitting?
Go ahead, let me have it. lol
most residential applications have no kickback from this, at the fixture the supply size gets down to 3/8 and even more before it leaves the fixture due to California's water conservation efforts... All charts supplied by your CODE BOOK will accomodate for pressure loss based on the conditions of elevation and supply/ water fixture units to be fed... Just friggin read and do not undersize! most import high volume shower valves state to use one nominal size up of pex if pex is to be ran... shut down the pride and read the dang instructions... hope it helps at least one of you (apprentices)
Uponor is full flow
Charles Kern you beat me to it.
We moved into our current home almost 40 years ago. 30 days later we discover a couple of leaks I galvanized pipes and copper.
I replaced it all with quest.. the leading poly butalene pipe.
40 years later. Only one failure.. at the water heater where corrosion build up split the connection.
If pex is that much better it should last till 2180.
Pex is the way to go baby. Always install a manifold not expensive
gregatyis Oh no...Quest? I’m sorry to hear that.
@@SureShotImages and NO PROBLEMS.
@@fliporhold just checking in, is that pipe still holding up?
I used copper and soldered fittings for the water lines when I remodelled my house, but I used PEX for the hydronic heat. I have been in plumbing and HVAC for 17 years, and finally started my own business where I use both PEX and copper lines.
I would replace copper in my house with pex because the well water is slightly acidic, requiring a calcite canister in the water line which requires periodic maintenance. The calcite is to raise the pH and prevent erosion of the copper. Slightly acidic water has no effect on pex, so there would be no need for the calcite water treatment.
Interesting, in my country most of water piping is done with PPR and sewage with PVC
Pex al pex len sa lisuje
3:25
When my employer builds irrigation systems with PEX lines we run a thin wire with the lines. Makes locating so much easier for more then us going back to repair the systems. We aready have the yard torn up, isnt hard to have a labourer run a wire along the pipe as we lay.
This is the same method most gas companies use to locate their lines, some communications companies also do this while running fiber, I am starting to see the utility companies having plastic pipe, and fiber cables made now with a metallic wire for locating ease.
About 10 years ago my grandfather bought a new a mobile home to live in and it was plumed entirely in PEX. In 2014 it got really cold and the pipes froze and leaks occurred. As I went to check where the leaks were I noticed the PEX , so did some research and as you said in your video easy fix. Finally got the water turned off and went to purchase needed supplies to make repairs. The tool to make the crimp was $90, the rings 25 for a bag, and the brass elbows and connections were almost $1.50 each. So I went with cpvc. The connections and fittings actually held solid. All of the PEX leaks were at the brass elbows and connections.
Currently have copper and it's slab leaking twice... This video made me more confident in going with pex... Also cost wise
Love this! All I know is I have a comfort height toilet!
But does it have surround sound with remote control seat warmer
I don't trust PEX, biologically. People talk about the toxicity of copper as though it's inherently toxic, but ultimately it's an essential cofactor in several vital enzyme systems. It just makes sense.
What are your thoughts on Copper with Propress? Seems like it would solve most of the issues you raise with copper.
Propress is nice but the cost of fittings is ridiculous
I work at a plumbing supply house and we have had a boom of people switching to pex in the last couple of years, even the old school guys who would only use copper before. Thankfully even the CPVC guys are making the switch. I think its a great overall product and it is extremely user friendly. Saves a bunch of time and money on the job. 👍
Wow that was a lot more information than I expected, thank you sir!
As a medical student I was studying the link between the HUGE spike in ALS disease (worse then cancer) and the time we quit using copper plumbing..... And that ALS cases where due to a lack of Copper in your diet, which we were getting from that copper piping..... Just an interesting note...
the line from the city coming in is still copper, and if the pipes were leaching that much copper you would have had lead poisoning as well
@@Galgamoth I think we are getting that as well indeed! IN fact our water (now) has so much harmful crap in it, there are huge health risks from it
correlation doesn't mean causation...
@@df4196 yep and you likely think Fluoride is good for your body systemically to huh?
Keep giving those baby's that extra fluoride Water!!! The FL Phosphate companies love ths scam they have pulled off for nearly 50 years now!
@@RussellD11 lol good luck graduating medical school
copper pipes are tried and true in plumbing, i use pex mostly in mobile homes and trailers
@Sean rodents can smell water through pex. They are notorious for nawing through it.
From my experience in Texas we go from extremely hot in the summer to freezing in the winter. I worry that any petroleum based material will break down over time if placed in the attic. Add pressure from expanding and contracting of freezing water and I become even more concerned. My home was built in the 80's and rodents have found a home in my walls. They chew on plastic and paper. I don't want to think what they would do to PEX.
Don't know about other countries but in Portugal we mainly use PEX for in wall water plumbing and it runs through an outer sleve so you can pull it out if it needs to be replaced, also, every water outlet goes to a manifold, for instance, in a bathroom you will have an in wall closed box with a cold and a hot manifold where there are two main valves for that bathroom, we never use PEX exposed to UV, it's either in wall or when it has to be out we insulate it.
Sometimes we also run individual pex lines to a main manifold instead of a local box, on that main manifold you have individual valves for each output.
It's rare to use copper plumbing unless for central heating (we use water heated radiators here)
Also if it's an exterior (not in wall) water instalation we use stainless steel.
I run copper here in California it seems people still prefer copper pipe in their homes I haven’t used my pex gun in months
It's the opposite here in Texas. Mostly PEX and I haven't soldered copper in months.
I make a great living removing copper with electrolysis holes. And reinstalling pex. Most copper I remove is around 35-45 years old. I love that you ole plumbers used copper. Thank you. I can’t thank you enough. My family is spoiled and happy. My customers keep calling. I only advertise by word of mouth. You guy were great and used what you had in the early years. Again thank you. 22 years of copper removal now. You guys funded my retirement. I put a 20 year parts and labor warranty from day 1. This has allowed me to learn from my mistakes and misques. I love copper plumbers. It gives me hope that my kids can carry on with this business. Pex is not indestructible. But it last 35-45 years. Lol just like copper around middle Tn. But pex is 1/4 the cost. Water is acid and will eventually eat anything. Copper guys ; keep it up. If I haven’t mentioned it to you personally. Thank you again. My pex goes in an attic. Don’t practice insanity, And reinstall same thing. If you got room for hvac duct in attic. Then you got plenty of room for pex. A leak is going to ruin some drywall. But drywall is cheap. Concrete and tunneling is very very expensive. Not much difference between sharkbite and propress . Just different hold tite techniques. Both ways rely on a rubber oring to seal. Sharkbite holds to 275psi. How much more pressure does one need in a house?
Phillip James preach on brother. Keep installing copper plumbers! The amount of calls I get for pinhole leaks daily is absurd 😂 A proper pex connection will NOT be compromised if installed correctly. Can’t say the same for copper.
I will point out however that even in your area where you're subject to damage from the water, copper is PROVEN to last 35-45 years and in many other areas it has lasted double that and still going. PEX is only BELIEVED to last that long. PEX has only been used for plumbing in the US since the 90's. I know it was used in radiant heating in the 80's but that's a different type of installation all together subject to less damage. Let's see PEX actually last 45 years before we start crowing it champion and talking down to old timers.
Arie well. We find out in 5-10 more years. As your admission the good pex has been used since the 90’s. Copper started in the 70’s around here. I started tearing out copper around 2001. So that’s 30 years. And now pex , been here since the 90’s. And it’s 2020. More and more people going it. But like I said and only said. I appreciate y’all. But I do realize your only 1 generation ahead of me. So teach everyone you can. No disrespect intended. Galvanized plumbers had the same struggle when copper came.
I am an old school general contractor, like you I prefer copper. However I am not blind to data and have been using PEX for plumbing for 20 years. I have a good plumber, trusted him, and I have no complaints. We agreed from the beginning that running trace wire was a great idea future troubleshooting. I also have my lawn guy run trace wire for sprinkler systems along with a map of how he routed the system.
I had to replace a shutoff valve on a copper water line recently. It was located right behind an hvac duct and floor joist. Ended up cutting out a three foot section and moving the valve, but still had a very real risk of burning the floor deck. Probably one of the riskiest DIY repairs I’ve done, but went smoothly.
Whole house is done in copper, so I don’t have any issue with doing small repairs here and there in the same, but will definitely use PEX, if I ever have to replace a large section or full run.
Personally I Hate pex. copper is superior
Unreal video game intro! Well done guys :) Great info too
This video is nice to hear-
because it is exactly what i did for my own house, when i designed it and built it.
I used the Upnuor expansion type Manifold, with home runs to each and every end. There are no " Tees" . ( except for small close items during projects when i need to quickly tee into something. Nice to be able to isolate the problem , with out effecting any other runs. Also nice to empty my house water, if i have to leave in the dead of winter. ( emergency trips away )
I have been watching your videos and agree with most of what you have to say.
2 things about pex you have not mentioned.
1. It is better to use one size larger pipe because the fitting are internal and reduce the size of the pipe which reduces flow.
2. THE MAIN REASON PEX IS BETTER IN SOME AREAS. I live in Central Texas and was a big copper fan but no longer. The water in our area is very acidic. After time the copper will develop pinholes.
Also rainwater and hvac condesation recovery systems produce pure water. This water will steal minerals from the copper and cause a leak. If you have aggressive water I would suggest using the plastic fittings.
Down here in austin ive seen uponer leak because of the plastic ring dose not have the stopper on it and it was sliding off or it didnt sit right where it needed to be on the pipe . but this was 5 or 6 years ago when I was a young lad
they have stoppers now... as well as the tool to avoid the manual expansion of the pipe and rings. wet pipe will still allow it to slip which is why it is important in a service truck, to employ both viega crimpers and uponor fittings to make the process a smooth repair. new construction should only be handled with one means or the other as the warranties will be voided if it is discovered to be "mixed" between competitors; pipe and fittings for wither, or.
They have a stop these days
I've seen problems with the plastic fittings, I'm working on a house right now one fitting broke and now it's about $20,000 worth to fix it
I have a house built in 1977 and I have had to fix my copper pipes about 6 times in the past 19 years from pin hole leaks. There is no 100% perfect product. I have another home built 2012 that has pex and I have yet to have any issues.
There are no plastic fittings with PEX. they use copper or nylon fittings. Nylon fittings are better IMO. The old Quest piping had plastic fittings prone to breaking
I love Copper and my torch but man, it is so frustrating when you even have a little water in that Cu pipe and that solder won't join easy. I love the speed that pex goes in and the flexibility it has.
Stick white bread into the pipe to stop the water long enough to solder
Uponor mentioned. Finnish quality, hope you sing it. Fan and upcoming plumber from🇫🇮
Yes , they say PEX is the best But I totally disagree . Over several years I've seen PEX fail where Copper has and does last longer . If it's installed properly , like anything but Copper has shown me it stands the test of time .
I recently used copper (L) to add to our plumbing. Also added 1/4 turn valves. I did add PEX to a crawlspace of a previous house after it freeze ruptured for the 3rd time. I hate crawl spaces. 3/4 of the work to put in as a basement but only 1/4 the benefit. That house was on a lake though so high water table means no basement.
I'm from Germany and we use Copper for our Heating pipes and they work just like your PEX. We just stick it together and crimp it with a special tool :) the "Presszange"
For Waterpipes we use PE/AL/PE-X so 3 layered pipes with plastic/aluminium/plastics. They will be widend with a special tool and will be screwed together.
If you want to search up what I mean it's called "Geberit Mapress" for Copper and "Sanipex MT" for the plastic.
It's interesting to see what you use in the USA compared to Germany :)
Plumber/Customer Service for 8 years now and I love it
Recently I had a pinhole in copper we installed new construction 24 years ago. I didn't install a water softener until approx 10 years after living here. The plumber wanted to use CPVC but I wanted copper put back. I think the plumber agreed to do the job but probably won't next time. Copper issues lead to trouble in repair. It got fixed though. If we have more leaks should we consider re-plumb with PEX?
I've heard of this too. I've gotten to the point where I am freaking out over the choise :)
I would like to hear a plumber's opinion too.
For my house, my plan is to secure all piping so it can leak securely. If I go through a wall/floor I will do so inside another pipe so any leaks will leak water outside the moisture sensitive areas. But that is a super personal decision that will impact much of the building (we're DIYing it all).
There is a system like that, at least in Sweden, called (translated) pipe in pipe, where the PEX runs inside another (cheap) sleeve. If it leaks in the wall it will come out at the end and the inner hose is changeable.
Was the pinhole just after a fitting?
If so... that is a deburing issue, and probablynot the only one.
I would change to Pex.
However a huge cost to replumb.
Cpvc...no.
I love your channel and would be curious to hear your perspective on toxicity of plastics used in water lines. We just had our water service line replaced and chose copper because it has been used longer and doesn't have all of the chemicals that PEX has. Asbestos was used for around 35-40 years before it was deemed unsafe. From the 1960s to 2012 baby bottles were made with BPA, a neurotoxin. Plastic bottles still contain a ton of toxins, they just aren't regulated. There are many toxins used in plastic. Also, I had read that chlorine breaks down PEX over time though I'm not sure how much it actually breaks down or what gets released into the water when it does.
I have my own lab and I can say that Polyethylene is one of the most inert plastics. It’s used to store some of the worst and most corrosive acids because of its stability. It also is one of the most recyclable plastics and lacks a lot of the toxic components in most plastics like the vinyl chloride in PVC and CPVC and the styrene in ABS plastic. It’s also used in certain medical devices so I’m pretty confident it’s safe. In fact certain amounts of copper can be toxic, so it’s really everything in moderation. Your body really lacks the ability to break down polyethylene so I’d almost say it’s a tad safer
I did some plumbing work with my dad while I was in high school most of the time we used PVC, We tried to stay away from copper because most houses had wells and the PH would corrode it.
When I worked with a plumbing company, it was mainly pex but they also used copper piping. All of the repiping was pex. It came down to what the customer wanted. We NEVER used shark bite for anything.
My house nothing but copper , friend of mine. His house is newer by at least 15 years. He had nothing but issues with his plumbing all plastic garbage.
I never had one issue with any of my copper pipes..
Pex isn’t plastic pipe nimrod.
Yeah, back when it was copper everywhere plumbers never used to go out to leaks and failed pipes. It's an entirely brand new invention........
hermand no doubt. Plumbers never did anything but install back in the copper days...
Can only use it for heat here in the big apple. Long live copper! I'm old as well Roger.
Is pro press OK in NYC
Bob Y Yes it is, very popular here.
Probably no pex in NYC because all the rats and mice
Copper is king!! (Scottish plumber) love the videos big stuff
@@he-got-a-new-mommy more due to firewalls between apartments. Same for BX cable.
You left out my favorite thing about pex vs copper which is you don't have to breathe all those nasty (and I assume toxic) fumes from the torch and flux.
I'm not a plumber, but I work at a plumbing wholesaler. Love these videos and I'm addicted and I have no idea why! I love the Upinor product, I have personally sold up to 2 inch stuff which is crazy to think about. Once you have that expansion tool you are set, very slick. Dont forget the ID is bigger than an equivalent product.
I have seen a new house where they had used PEX inside the walls and so on, but added copper piping whenever the piping got visible. It looked great with copper instead of plastic. May I hear of your thought?
you mean the stub outs? that's how it's supposed to be done
@@Galgamoth Not sure I understand what "stub out" is including but let's say you have a sink where you need to connect water to, then from the moment the pipe is visible from the wall and up to the sink, is it all copper, so was the pipe to the shower head and so on. Even the towel heater was made by letting warm water go out and into the wall again by copper pipes. So in short, every visible pipe was made of copper. :-)
@@friedmule5403 they are used so the connections are solid because pex is flexible
@@Galgamoth Thank you for your great reply. It surely looked great. :-)
From Ohio here. The plumbing company I work for that is standard practice. We stub out copper and on exposed supplies we'll put on chrome sleeves.
Ever use cpvc??
Cpvc is horse shit. Never use on pressure lines. Maybe a t and p for a heater. But that’s it lol
as a non plumber, I LOVE PEX!! it is like legos for plumbing. So fast and easy to replace or repair things. My house is copper but as things need to come out or get repaired, I will adapter from copper to pex. (Not using a sharkbite)
really saved me a bundle of money and time not having to do labor intensive copper or pay someone to fix things.
As a Handyman and doing repairs on leaking pipes,copper was the way to go. Well I hated soldering copper, because I sucked at it. I have gotten pretty good over the past 2 years but it is a high risk task with a hot flame around tinder box wood.
Along comes PEX and it was a game changer. Yes cheaper to install and quicker. Crimp rings are great, unless you are working in cramped working room. If you dont have the mussels of a 21 year old your in trouble. It takes a lot of force to crimp the rings.
So after many projects with crimp PEX, I bit the bullet and bought a Milwaukee Pro PEX tool. Yep a lot of up front cost, but it makes even the tightest of working area a breeze. Connections are solid, no flame, and customers are happy every time.
I love the video game intro. I noticed all the plungers made farting noises. I guess you need a good sense of humor about crap when you're a plumber since you have to repair sewer lines and replace toilet. Society would fall apart quickly if plumbers weren't there to keep our toilets running.
Amen! lol
I had a bunch of copper pipes under my house burst from freezing(interior Alaska) we replaced it with PEX and while it still does occasionally freeze, it's been holding strong.
I've been in the construction business for over 40 yrs so I've seen galvanized pipe, copper, polybutelene, and pex and overall I prefer PEX. Like you said in your vid PEX is faster and cheaper to install especially with the increase of copper pricing and it has proven itself to be related able. Yes it's hard to find in the ground but overall I believe it to be a better product.
im a plumber in new york doing mostly residential new construction. We use pex for 90% of the house. We use copper on the shower valves and from where the service line comes into the basement. It goes meter valve > water meter > dual check valve > hosebib style (washdown) valve tee'd off > pressure reducing valve > ball valve > expansion tank > pex. Only about one house a year gets copper water lines.
Do u ever use qualpex pipe?