Genesis is like Star Wars: sure there is a galaxy full of billions of people, but actually it is the same half a dozen characters running into each other time and time again in like three planets.
And just like Star Wars people wish so hard there must be a great story buried somewhere which just isn't there while they like to overlook that nothing makes any sense (after '86 ;P ).
Look, if we take apart all the letters in this page, then re-arrange them in new words and throw away the ones we didn't use, now the texts says exactly what I think it must say to justify my worldview. 🤣
that must have been after their protopunk years. couldn't imagine song off of 45 "Interpreting the Silence" Literalism's Lament Anachronistic Anarchy - Banger
If you don't agree with their dogma, they claim you don't read the bible. It's so adorable when a fundamentalist quotes me a scripture...as if I haven't it before?! Many progressive Christians grew up conservative. That transition often involves a LOT of bible study.
@@sunnyjohnson992 Where did they come from? As the video mentions Adam and Eve's later kids came after Cain left(that also means everyone came about from incest which is just bad science). Also would the family members not be told about their singular family member who killed another?
@@sunnyjohnson992 so we now know the complete genealogy & history dating back as it was passed down by their oral tradition by the people that didn't know it themselves. noice.
@billydelacey Unfortunately, it often matters quite a bit - for example, if you still believe in your church generally, even if you disagree with it on many things, getting cut off from it is spiritually devastating; and even if you don’t, many people have close relationships, family members and friends, connected to a church community, and excommunication often shatters that.
In my view the consistent denial and bellitling of critical scholarship, "you [an active scholar in this field] aren't reading the source text carefully enough", is one of the most dangerous and insipid undercurrents to these dogmatic apologetics.
@jman5599 I know right. It's almost like "carefully" is a bit of a weasel word which can be applied to many situations. "You aren't being careful enough to prioritize and protect my dogmas when reading the text"... technically correct...
@christophersandford5888 quantum linguistics, some words mean vastly varying things depending on audience. Very convenient for flexible interpretation, esp in hindsight. I wonder where they learned to capitalize on that...oh yeah, we all know where.
@k98killer the reason I think it is dangerous is that, like pseudoscience, it is rhetoric which has the effect of undermining trust in academic and research institutions and those who engage these subjects critically and with intellectual honestly. Educational institutions in many countries around the world are under attack by people and groups who's dogmas are challenged by intellectually honest scholarship. The consequences of this kind of rhetoric and attitude are therefore, in my view, very dangerous.
Literally then, that would also mean Cain and Abel were twins because they were born after only one "knowing." The birth of Seth was after the second "knowing."
I want to get a new T-shirt for my church: Church of Tortured Hermeneutic Gymnasts. or maybe just Tortured Hermeneutic Gymnasium. Love the commentary, Dr. McClellan! Keep it coming.
@maklelan You may want to point out to the non Jews out there that in the massoretic text, the ptou’hot and stoumot usually (if not always) indicate a different text/story/source having been added to the previous to make the entire scroll … at least that’s how I learned it as a Jew … I don’t remember if that was part of my studies before starting to study safrout but it probably was. I’ve forgot when and where I learned that. We don’t know the significance/reason of the differences between ptou’hot and stoumot only that they have to be preserved as is … but there are some traditions in which they are switched (a פ is a ס in most scroll but not in a few and vice versa, with a very few traditions in which there are/aren’t either when the massoretic text has one or the other, but that’s more detailed than I know since it could have been a scribal error or a separate tradition and I’ve only heard/read about their existence). Anywho, at the end of chapitre 3 is a s’touma, at the end of chapitre 4 is another s’touma, and at the end of chapitre 5.5 is yet another (and 5.8, 5.11, 5.14, 5.17, 5.20, 5.24, 5.27, 5.31) with a ptou’ha after 6.4. Enjoyed the video. Merci ☺️
You have love people who think they know more about the bible than a biblical scholar who speaks the languages in which it was written. And when thy insist on inerrancy and then misquote, I just want to hug them.
Eve happy to have Seth to replace Abel reads like she got a new phone after breaking her old one. Who considers their next child a "replacement" for the previous?
Whether hunter-gatherers or agrarian society, you need hands. Birth them, then hope they survive long enough to contribute. That is the world into which the god thingy in Genesis thrust humans after that garden incident.
See, this is why we need Dan McClellan. It's all very well to Google competently, but how would a non-Hebrew speaker like me know to look for Seth meaning appointed, and then make that realisation that this means he's the next child, specifically? I don't know about you, but I need that pointed out to me. And I'm glad because now I've learned something today, thanks Dr Dan!
@@integrationalpolytheism I read Tana’’kh in French, English, Spanish and the originals Hebrew and Aramaic. I have also translations in Russian, Ukrainian and German. The originals are best and as with reading any literature you miss out on puns, poetry, alliteration, ambiguities/antonymic implications and other ways in which a native writer/speaker can play with their oeuvre. If you really hold the Tanakh as more than just literature it seems to me that it would be incumbent upon the individual to read it in the originals as sacred language. I use translations when I’m feeling lazy and don’t want to wrestle with the text or the text is originally in a language that I don’t yet know/speak. Yes, I’m Jewish and am biased in this but understanding language, culture and context is very important to understanding the text, whether it be in Biblical Hebrew/Aramaic or any other language. Hebrew may be my fourth or fifth strongest language but it behooves the individual to learn it to really know the Bible … because then you are less likely to get the wool pulled over your eyes by ridiculous preachers with bad intentions and who make up meanings for biblical words because all they have is a Strong’s and no understanding that Hebrew words in a Strong’s aren’t even a word for word « translation » into English … and I say it that way because I once heard a Pentecostal evangelical pastor conflate the words שבת and שבח because he couldn’t even pronounce either correctly, and at which point he lost any respect I had for him on anything that he said involving Hebrew. Mind you, at the time I was only fluent in French and English and now I might maybe add Spanish to my list of fluent languages (as long as my brain isn’t tired and unable to process it especially after a long shift at work). If you’re as truly « serious » as most evangelicals about your salvation knowing more than your preacher might just prove critical/crucial to your soul’s future in the World to come. Of course, were you to be a Jew like me, then it’s a moot point because we don’t see the world through a christological lens of distortion with the baggage of Original sin, heaven and hell, an all powerful devil who can know everything about you to tempt you to hell, etc. As I’ve told people who’ve tried to proselytise me before, judaeo-christian is usually a term only used to assume that we Jews agree with the church on doctrines because the church borrowed and expropriated my people’s literary heritage and has attempted to kill us off for two millennia without knowing the text that they claim to hold dear. If I’ve offended you, it wasn’t intentional, and I apologise and please accept my apologies. To me it’s not a question of an all or nothing approach to the Bible/Tanakh but a matter of having and using one’s intellect and not being a lazy dupe. Or to quote/paraphrase a Christian testament author: better to speak in tongues with understanding etc.
@@ericcastaneda8069 well done. Most won't, though, and those people (myself included) can learn a lot about interpretation and nuance in the original language, and we don't have to choose either the polyglot approach that you take or the ignorant approach that the pastor you describe takes.
Let’s assume Cain’s wife is a daughter of Adam and Eve. I want to know her story. How did she come to be in the land of Nod, or wherever Cain found her? Did she leave with him? Or, she was expelled prior to Cain? Either way, why? I was a miserable student for my Sunday school teachers. Just accept what we’re telling you, there are no inconsistencies, just let it go.
7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1
Cain was the original bad boy. He had to fight off the chicks.
Thank you for what you do. If God is almighty and omniscient and is truly the author of every jot and tittle in the good book, pretty sure They would understand logical argument and fallacy and would never have allowed it to be written in such a way as to be misinterpreted 3,000 years later....
ESCAPING GOD Lili Within our thoughts we can't delude unless we seek to gain We cannot cheat our own true selves, we know we cannot lie If deceiving all comes to our minds it cannot come with ease It's all for them, they just don't care, it's only self they please. But life goes on, death's Angel stands and bides, Their victims age, In later years recall, the memories are not sweet The fate's of all their lives today and yours of vile deceit You're weighed with regret, from thoughts that haunt your days But there's an answer that you grasp, a story you'll believe. The story hides away the load, Confessions a requite With their help we cheat ourselves, pretending absolution pure But now and then it all comes back, our guilt we cannot cure Life's a shadow box of lies, this God's a God of spite The peace he offers isn't there, entrapment is the play He loads your mind with guilt and shame, He makes your life a blight. But now convinced a future fine, depends on Heaven's gate Forgiven by the Holy Ghost, a million rules observe This new life it goes against, the nature that you know You're weighed down more with this new life, a life you don't deserve They fill your mind with bible lore, confusion, guilt and fear Your only life is now controlled by others who are chained To Jesus, God and superstition, your life now dull and drear The price of Christ is much too much, it cannot be sustained. Escaping from the Christian life and all that it imbues Takes character and courage, your new chains hard to break But freedom from the Christian life, a life you must refuse Will give you understanding of Mankind's largest cult The evil of this Christian God, the lies, a big mistake But we will give your nature back and show a whole new way To live your life, a life of joy, The Sabbats give and take. And when you've cast away your chains and moved towards the light Your life's returned, that evil bond, forgotten, left behind The tricksters with their sweetened words now turned wrathful blind No understanding why they failed, they look to blame with fright The Spirits of the Netherworld, control within your mind The Jesus cult you've trodden down, your life now on is bright. BLESSED BE.
Wow, hadn’t read CAREFULLY the book I used to believe 😂I also should’ve realized while a believer is: for a God, human were always “something” to be replaced😅it wasn’t “I a God will protect Abel” anyway those first couple can multiply and have another son😅
I've always just kind of assumed that the creation story - that of Adam and Eve - was purely for the genealogy for the Jews and, eventually, Jesus. Meaning that their importance is specifically for that - there are other people elsewhere (see: Cain's adventures in the Land of Nod), but the reason these two are singled out is because of the lineage they foster and the story it tells. And somewhere along the way, it's morphed into the "They are the only two people that exist." It's also a form of mental gymnastics, sure, but it makes more sense in my mind than some of the stuff that Dan is combating here. As always, I appreciate all Dan does on his social media channels; I look forward to his daily videos.
They're just fabricated stories folks. It's not that hard to figure them out once you realize that. Thanks for all the work you do Dan! You're a lifesaver!
A lot of individuals need to understand that a good portion of the stories they believe to be genuine events that took place are only allegorical tales meant to be mere etiological entertainment and not literal history.
In the 1600s, a Frenchman named Isaac la Peyrère came up with the idea that before Adam, there was a race of lawless men, and that Adam was merely the 1st civilized man.
7 วันที่ผ่านมา
did those lawless men eat magic apples, or was that just adam?
One has to understand, these accounts were handed down orally for many years. When oral presentation of a story the order is often turned around, because of audience familiarity with the history it was not an issue to them.
Even if these started as written works, those were also pretty clearly written in a different order than we received them, so plot holes between episodes are still to be expected.
Dan AND apologists are missing the real meaning behind Genesis 4. That farmers are a bunch of big meanies who are totally jealous of the fact that God loves ranchers more than them. The fact that Genesis 4 was written by ranchers is totally coincidental to the point.
I am a Christian and I think you have to take the text for what it is communicating. Not what you think it should say. I have perfect trust in the truth it communicates. Genesis is not a 19th century scientific journal. It talks about a man and woman God created and their lineage. It actually acknowledges other human species indirectly ( which we are discovering more and more about. ) I appreciate your integrity to honesty. I enjoy your channel for it helps to serve as a good mirror for an honest look at my faith.
Where did Cain and Able get their wives? If Eve was made from Adam's rib, we would all have the exact same DNA as Adam and Eve. Why don't we? Why are the days of creation different in chapter 2? Do Christians take Genesis literally when Jewish people don't? Why is that? I have so many more questions
Cain is a personification of Libra, which is the first night in Genesis one. His twin, Abel, is a personification of Aries, which is the the first day in Genesis one. As the Ram sets, his horns are entangled in the thorn bush (winter). This act is god (Aries) sacrificing himself for humanity (Isaac).
In a real world chronological contexts, do you think that the founding stories of Rome where one twin kills the other, could be influencing the Cain narrative? I was thinking that it would be a great way of showing why that powerful state existed outside of the culture while still incorporating that culture into the outsider’s as kin, but the kind you don’t associate with lol.
@kariannecrysler640 the Romans weren't a blip on the radar when this story was first told; the narrative of one brother killing another is very, very ancient. The Romulus and Remus narrative descends from an older Indo-European narrative where the brothers are just called "Man" and "Twin", but the earliest complete version of a similar story that survives to this day is the Egyptian story of Set murdering Osiris (probably not related to the Indo-European story, but who knows)
@ we don't know when the earliest version of the Indo-European story was written down in Russian Steppes, or when the earliest version of the Egyptian story was written down, and therefore it would be impossible to say if there's a connection between the two, but it's unlikely. The Cain and Abel story is sometimes thought to descend from a third, probably unrelated narrative about the shepherd god-king Dumuzi competing with a farmer named Enkimdu for the attention of a goddess.
@maklelan Maybe you could do a video on this, but I could never fully wrap my head around the notion that Adam and Eve 1) had enough time and physical health to procreate that many progeny, and 2) Scripture not address, what with all that inbreeding, the consequences of same.
I remember some scholar suggesting that the Hebrew could be read to suggest that Cain and Abel were actually twins, with Cain just being the elder...I've sometimes wondered if there were any stories about Seth outside the Bible. Interesting to think about the stories he may have heard about the older brothers he never met...Or maybe he eventually DID meet Cain. Could be a cool novel in that!
I love the videos. And the comments are rather scholarly at times. Here’s something out of left field. You are way more handsome (read hot) with your clean shaven looks. Makes this gay guy even MORE ATTENTIVE to what you’re saying in your videos! 😁😁😁😁
I fear that most people who need to understand what you're saying, and clean up their acts, either don't have the mental horsepower to understand it or have too much at stake psychologically or financially to admit that you're right.
My own personal later take on this puzzlement was that the tellers of those tales were looking at the world from the POV of the "chosen" people and were identifying Adam and Eve and their progeny as just their own ancestors, not as the ancestors of all human beings, and that their chosen people status began by being special creations of God. Where those other people came from---the people Cain was afraid would kill him once he ventured outside the Garden---well, who knows and who cares, right? The scripture writers were engaged in myth-making for their own purposes, not engaging in a scientific search for truth. For facts. For data.
7 วันที่ผ่านมา +1
the story expressly states that A+E were the first people alone in the garden, ate the apple, and were cursed, thus giving rise to humanity
Just because they were cursed and then humanity arose. Doesn't mean that all humanity had to come from A+E. If God is all powerful then he could have sprinkled the earth with seeds and turned the seeds in to people. It seemed like another part of the Bible talked about God coming from a community of gods. If there was a group of gods they could have all been out there experimenting away.
6 วันที่ผ่านมา
@@mlatham23 so...magic. if god is all powerful then why try to make any sense out of any of it. it's all just magic, facts, logic, words and reality don't matter.
As Morticia Addams said: "Gomez, don't torture yourself, that's my job." I kind of feel like reading Genesis fits that bill just a bit. When I was in college in the 70's, one day while I was making some Celestial Seasonings Tea*, my roommate started reading aloud from a book he had brought home weeks earlier. He began: "74:0.1 (828.1) ADAM AND EVE arrived on Urantia [the Universe's name for our planet], from the year A.D. 1934, 37,848 years ago. It was in midseason when the Garden was in the height of bloom that they arrived. At high noon and unannounced, the two seraphic transports, accompanied by the Jerusem personnel intrusted with the transportation of the biologic uplifters to Urantia, settled slowly to the surface of the revolving planet in the vicinity of the temple of the Universal Father. All the work of rematerializing the bodies of Adam and Eve was carried on within the precincts of this newly created shrine. And from the time of their arrival ten days passed before they were re-created in dual human form for presentation as the world’s new rulers. They regained consciousness simultaneously. The Material Sons and Daughters always serve together. It is the essence of their service at all times and in all places never to be separated. They are designed to work in pairs; seldom do they function alone." Naturally my curiosity was piqued, so I went into the living room and asked him: "what is that???" He handed me the book and told me to check out the Table of Contents.The Papers on Adam and Eve were written by the angel Solonia, the 'voice in the garden'. There were many authors, some of them being Melchizedeks. So I was introduced to an entirely different version of "the beginning." Cain and Abel didn't come along until over a 100 years later, after the pair already had over a thousand descendants. And Adam was not Cain's biological father, Cano, from the Land of Nod, was. And yes, the book tells us who Nod was. Interestingly enough, the book describes the Garden as having been built by volunteer labor over 90 years previously, headed by Van and Amadon, who had been on the planet for over 400,000 years using the Tree of Life. And Solonia wrote of two brick walls that protected the Garden from the Syrian territory to the East. Using sonar and other underwater scanning devices, those two walls have since been found, so we now know where the first Garden was... * Celestial Seasonings was significant as I later learned, its leaders were also readers of this book, (whom I eventually became friends with). For more, visit: www.urantiabook .org/074-Adam-and-Eve/#ubf-paperTitle [spaces added to keep Google happy.]
The Urantia book is fake. It is directly contradicted by science numerous times. It doesn't even have the excuse that it was written before it was known the world was round.
@digitaljanus nothing from the past was "just a story" the mere fact that they have survived the centuries is a strong indication that they are much much more. There is always a degradation of information over time (think of the game telephone). Something that is a lie, being built on nothing will never last. But Something with hidden truth will survive the ages as people pass it down.... For example Jacob and esau is merely the Jewish version of the two nature's teaching (one animal- (esau with his animal skins) and Jacob the divine nature.) You see this theme in sumerian mythology with gilgamesh and enkidu, Hercules (half god ) and his brother (fully mortal) or castor and pollux.. the animal nature they referred to as "the beast" and these two nature's were always in conflict with one another but I digress...
YHWH was not the God of all, only the God of the Israelites. The 70 nation gods polytheistic narrative seems to remedy this. and although there is some negotiation of the text is needed, to me it seems like Genesis 1 and 2 are basically two different origin accounts and the first could be understood as a broad creation of man, independent of Adam. While the second, is specifically about YHWH and his people. I might be wrong, but it certainly seems to make more sense than the alternative.
It always amuses me how these folks somehow think they know more than the scholars who spend their lives studying, researching, examining, and dissecting the texts. Same in science. Someone amateurs who aren’t scientists discover things while googling that thousands of research scientists overlooked. Amazing, isn’t it? 😅
If I had a dollar for every time I was told by a Creationist, you just have to read this one more thing. And then you will see that you are wrong. I could have a mansion in Beverly Hills and invite Dan and all of you over for prawns on the barbie!
Why does it even matter who was born and when as if the Bible could actually get you to heaven? And if the story of Adam and Eve is an etiology why do such details matter? How does it apply to us today?
Genesis 4:25: “Adam again had sexual relations with his wife, and she gave birth to a son. She named him Seth because, as she said, ‘God has appointed for me another offspring in place of Abel, because Cain killed him.”
Question for Dan: I had read that the Cain and Abel story is based on an old Canaanite story (unrelated to creation myths), and was incorporated into the genesis stories. Is this correct??????
Are there traditions about Cain marrying Lilith, Adam's wife from Gen 1? That doesn't explain where everyone else in Wandering came from, but it's at least one plot hole patched.
To me it makes perfect sense that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman that El created. Not the first humans ever. But people always said to me: "that's no what the bible says" 😅😅😅
According to the text, probably not. From Genesis 4: "Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have produced a man with the help of the Lord.” Next she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a tiller of the ground." (NRSVue)
There is a midrash that Qayin and Hével were twins, other midrash that each had a twin sister for a wife and another midrash that Qayin had a twin sister for a wife but that Hével was a triplet to two girls. FWIW
The verses you are referring about Cain are fairly ambiguous in terms of chronology. After Cain kills Abel and is cast out, the verses tell about his life in the land of Nod. As you point out, it refers to him and his wife having children, and then tells the story of his further lineage with a little dioramic scene of Lamech repeating the sins of Cain many generations later. In other words, a broad stretch of time passes in this aside, covering multiple generations of Cain’s bloodline before returning to the scene in Eden where Adam and Eve conceive another child, Seth. It’s practically impossible to tell how much of this aside, if any, occurs prior to the rest of the events in Eden, apart from the expulsion itself, which is immediate. It seems fairly safe to assume that not all of the events detailing generations of Cain’s bloodline up to and beyond the story of Lamech happened before the conception and birth of Seth, perhaps some of them did, and perhaps not, it’s impossible to tell, at least based on my reading. Seems odd to make assertions about the chronology of things in this context. Based on the context of the full chapter, read start to finish, I don’t see how it’s irrational to look at the description of events detailing Cain’s life and lineage as occurring after the events in the garden, it’s very open for interpretation in this regard. So some of your conjecture comes off as somewhat baseless. Lmk if I’m missing something from your reading, I just looked up the verses on Google, NIV version. Cheers
@@sparrowthesissy2186 I don't know. Do you know? The only ones with any knowledge of Cain's transgressions would be God, Adam, and Eve, so Cain's fear about being slain is completely irrational unless he fears that his parents may kill him or God himself may appear in some earthly form to take vengeance upon him. Right? If there were humans out there they would have no knowledge of the events, so why would they wish to kill Cain? It's not logical. My only gripe is the authoritative claims being made. Were their humans outside of Eden or not... it's all pure speculation at that point, the text does not make this clear, and any definitive claims made on the subject are conjecture. Why are people so desperate for certainty? Are you afraid to not know? It's OK to not know. Only the fragile, insecure ego needs to convince itself it knows.
Incidentally, the literalist can still retort, saying that Dr Dan is himself reading into the text, because the text nowhere says that God didn't create any other people. They could say it's possible that Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel have contemporaries, that were also created by God and Genesis doesn't mention them, and if so, they might say Dr Dan is going too far by insisting we should read that as if Genesis says there were definitely no other people around. I'm just playing devil's advocate. As a former calvinist evangelical, I still hear all of the "yeah but..." circular answers in my head that I would have given back in those days.
Dan is explicitly stating that the Genesis narrative implies that there are other people, so I'm not sure how that's a counter-argument. It's literally the same point.
@@KneelBeforeDru I'm just pointing out that Dan can be said to be extrapolating as well, because it doesn't say there were no other people at any point. That's what a religious literalist would tell themselves to avoid taking this on. I'm not even convinced all the original readers would assume Adam and his family are the only created humans, since the story is a compilation from multiple sources, as Dan points out.
@@sparrowthesissy2186 not really. They are so called because they take the text literally. You even had to use the word "literally" in your reply, so it seems logical to call them literalists.
@ I still don't understand your point; Dan is saying that the original intent of the text was intended to convey that there were other people on the Earth; he explains this by noting that the text is assembled from multiple different narratives. How could someone arguing that there were other people on the Earth be used as a "counter-argument"? It's the same point. That person would be agreeing with Dan's interpretation.
Between chapter 4 & 5 you have two separate genealogies i. e. the Yahwistic and Priestly listings. The Bible is just chalk full of contradicting stories.
Where is the original video he is talking about? Because it doesn't seem to be on his channel. I see the Gen. 1 &2-3 video, and he mentions it there again, but still cannot find the original video.
Women are not always considered people nor worthy of mention. So the author may have thought there would have been daughters, it’s just that they’re not really people to him.
Genesis is like Star Wars: sure there is a galaxy full of billions of people, but actually it is the same half a dozen characters running into each other time and time again in like three planets.
And just like Star Wars people wish so hard there must be a great story buried somewhere which just isn't there while they like to overlook that nothing makes any sense (after '86 ;P ).
And just like Star Wars there are plenty of fanfics made up to expand the lore and their fans keeps debating which ones are canonical lol
The Bible is just lazily written cash grab, just like the sequel trilogy.
With a splash of Harry Potter and parslemouths.
I love the apologist argument that can be summarized as "the sentences of the Bible can be read in any order."
s/sentences/letters/
@@KaiHenningsenwith any grammatical gymnastics necessary.
that also applies to individual words and punctuation
Look, if we take apart all the letters in this page, then re-arrange them in new words and throw away the ones we didn't use, now the texts says exactly what I think it must say to justify my worldview. 🤣
A bit like a serial killer cutting and pasting words from various newspapers, crafting a message of his own making.
I saw the Tortured Hermeneutics open for Hootie & the Blowfish back in '92!
that must have been after their protopunk years.
couldn't imagine
song off of 45 "Interpreting the Silence"
Literalism's Lament
Anachronistic Anarchy - Banger
Dammit, this is the joke I was gonna make.
My first 12"was Herman's Hermeneutics from 1966
They had completely changed their look and sound by then. Besides, they never sounded that great anyway after firing the original drummer.
read: you are not reading the text whilst pre-supposing the dogmas I adhere to
If you don't agree with their dogma, they claim you don't read the bible.
It's so adorable when a fundamentalist quotes me a scripture...as if I haven't it before?!
Many progressive Christians grew up conservative.
That transition often involves a LOT of bible study.
I didn't need a Bible expert to know something was screwy with the storyline the first time I read it for myself.
Hermeneutic gymnastics should be an olympic event
Not to mention how he would have met people who didn't know what he did if they were all his siblings.
They weren’t all just siblings. Hundreds of years had passed so there were many people on the earth by this point; cousins, nephews, etc.
@sunnyjohnson992 cousins? And nephews? Adding people to the texts, but taken to another level
@@sunnyjohnson992 Where did they come from? As the video mentions Adam and Eve's later kids came after Cain left(that also means everyone came about from incest which is just bad science). Also would the family members not be told about their singular family member who killed another?
@@sunnyjohnson992 so we now know the complete genealogy & history dating back as it was passed down by their oral tradition by the people that didn't know it themselves. noice.
Imagine being excommunicated because you actually read the book.
Imagine excommunication being something that mattered.
@billydelacey
Unfortunately, it often matters quite a bit - for example, if you still believe in your church generally, even if you disagree with it on many things, getting cut off from it is spiritually devastating; and even if you don’t, many people have close relationships, family members and friends, connected to a church community, and excommunication often shatters that.
@@weirdlanguageguy It matters to crybabies, not to smart people.
In my view the consistent denial and bellitling of critical scholarship, "you [an active scholar in this field] aren't reading the source text carefully enough", is one of the most dangerous and insipid undercurrents to these dogmatic apologetics.
"You aren't reading (into) the source text carefully (with very specific viewpoint of conformative faith) enough."
@jman5599 I know right. It's almost like "carefully" is a bit of a weasel word which can be applied to many situations. "You aren't being careful enough to prioritize and protect my dogmas when reading the text"... technically correct...
@christophersandford5888 quantum linguistics, some words mean vastly varying things depending on audience. Very convenient for flexible interpretation, esp in hindsight. I wonder where they learned to capitalize on that...oh yeah, we all know where.
Idk if it is "dangerous", but it is definitely stupid
@k98killer the reason I think it is dangerous is that, like pseudoscience, it is rhetoric which has the effect of undermining trust in academic and research institutions and those who engage these subjects critically and with intellectual honestly.
Educational institutions in many countries around the world are under attack by people and groups who's dogmas are challenged by intellectually honest scholarship. The consequences of this kind of rhetoric and attitude are therefore, in my view, very dangerous.
"Carefully enough" here meaning "explaining everything away with bias"
Literally then, that would also mean Cain and Abel were twins because they were born after only one "knowing." The birth of Seth was after the second "knowing."
Them: You're not reading it properly
Also, them: *skipping the flow of events clearly laid out in Genesis 4😂
Honest answer from any Pastor: You can read it however you want, as long as that tax-free money is rolling in.
having "Seth" when you are 130 years old is already impressive in itself
Not to mention living another 800 years after that, if I'm recalling correctly.
Yeah, sounds like absolutely none of this was just made up cuz… reasons.
@@christasimon9716 I understood that reference
Seth replaced Abel.
@@harveywabbit9541 Yes, Seth replaced Abel. What’s your point? Dan posted the quote on screen from Genesis 4:25 that says exactly that at 1:40.
It's nice to see you're a Bluey fan too, Dan.
That's my favorite of your fits. Whadddup party people!! 😂
He ws so Intellectual and Serious And then he pulls out the t shirt. At the end..
I burst out laughing 😂
Westboro Baptists: YOU’RE NOT READING JOHN 3:16 CAREFULLY ENOUGH!!
They know about reading?
@@KaiHenningsen how to avoid it
Welcome to the Bible Club. [bonk!]
@@KaiHenningsen they know just enough English to say “God hates everybody!”
I want to get a new T-shirt for my church: Church of Tortured Hermeneutic Gymnasts. or maybe just Tortured Hermeneutic Gymnasium.
Love the commentary, Dr. McClellan! Keep it coming.
We need critical scholar like you for islam
@maklelan You may want to point out to the non Jews out there that in the massoretic text, the ptou’hot and stoumot usually (if not always) indicate a different text/story/source having been added to the previous to make the entire scroll … at least that’s how I learned it as a Jew … I don’t remember if that was part of my studies before starting to study safrout but it probably was. I’ve forgot when and where I learned that. We don’t know the significance/reason of the differences between ptou’hot and stoumot only that they have to be preserved as is … but there are some traditions in which they are switched (a פ is a ס in most scroll but not in a few and vice versa, with a very few traditions in which there are/aren’t either when the massoretic text has one or the other, but that’s more detailed than I know since it could have been a scribal error or a separate tradition and I’ve only heard/read about their existence).
Anywho, at the end of chapitre 3 is a s’touma, at the end of chapitre 4 is another s’touma, and at the end of chapitre 5.5 is yet another (and 5.8, 5.11, 5.14, 5.17, 5.20, 5.24, 5.27, 5.31) with a ptou’ha after 6.4.
Enjoyed the video. Merci ☺️
Wait...so, Eve was sooo pissed off at Adam that she froze him out of bed for *130 years*??
Since we know there were other men around {I mean SOMEONE had to father Cain's wife}, were they into cuckold play?
Lot of 5-on-1 couch hockey going on in that house
They obviously didn't eat enough of the apple to figure things out thoroughly enough sooner.
I thought it was more strange that adam got to live to 930 years. But don’t sweat the details
@@Darkninja282 As the song say, "It ain't necessarily so"
You have love people who think they know more about the bible than a biblical scholar who speaks the languages in which it was written. And when thy insist on inerrancy and then misquote, I just want to hug them.
Hug them is not the first thing that comes to mind.
Eve happy to have Seth to replace Abel reads like she got a new phone after breaking her old one. Who considers their next child a "replacement" for the previous?
The bible. See Job for an extreme example.
That's some hard core pragmatism right there, isn't it?
I personally cannot imagine it, but it is so prevalent that it has even a name: "rainbow baby".
Oh gosh. Even read some early American documents: when child mortality was high, replacement children (and their recycled names) were common.
Whether hunter-gatherers or agrarian society, you need hands. Birth them, then hope they survive long enough to contribute. That is the world into which the god thingy in Genesis thrust humans after that garden incident.
Now that breakdancing is officially an Olympic sport, I suppose hermeneutic gymnastics cannot be far behind.
Apparently it wasn’t accepted as an official event. I think the “RayGun” fiasco put an end to that.
@@cedarwaxwing3509 Oh, good: there's hope for the world after all, then!
@@marshallmkerr Well, it’s a start ….
Interesting. With the emphasis on each act of "knowing," are we to understand Cain and Abel as twins? This could fit the Jacob and Esau pattern, too.
No, the problem is _you're_ not reading the texts _carelessly_ enough.
Spare the rod and….
Just get it over with, tell em it’s a fable.
Nicely argued, as usual.
Have we considered parthenogenesis? Eve could have been firing off clone-daughters the whole time.
Thanks!
See, this is why we need Dan McClellan. It's all very well to Google competently, but how would a non-Hebrew speaker like me know to look for Seth meaning appointed, and then make that realisation that this means he's the next child, specifically? I don't know about you, but I need that pointed out to me.
And I'm glad because now I've learned something today, thanks Dr Dan!
Another reason to learn Hebrew and to read the Tana’’kh in Hebrew. 😊
@ericcastaneda8069 most won't, so that all or nothing approach isn't helpful, and plenty who are not fl
@@integrationalpolytheism I read Tana’’kh in French, English, Spanish and the originals Hebrew and Aramaic. I have also translations in Russian, Ukrainian and German. The originals are best and as with reading any literature you miss out on puns, poetry, alliteration, ambiguities/antonymic implications and other ways in which a native writer/speaker can play with their oeuvre. If you really hold the Tanakh as more than just literature it seems to me that it would be incumbent upon the individual to read it in the originals as sacred language. I use translations when I’m feeling lazy and don’t want to wrestle with the text or the text is originally in a language that I don’t yet know/speak. Yes, I’m Jewish and am biased in this but understanding language, culture and context is very important to understanding the text, whether it be in Biblical Hebrew/Aramaic or any other language. Hebrew may be my fourth or fifth strongest language but it behooves the individual to learn it to really know the Bible … because then you are less likely to get the wool pulled over your eyes by ridiculous preachers with bad intentions and who make up meanings for biblical words because all they have is a Strong’s and no understanding that Hebrew words in a Strong’s aren’t even a word for word « translation » into English … and I say it that way because I once heard a Pentecostal evangelical pastor conflate the words שבת and שבח because he couldn’t even pronounce either correctly, and at which point he lost any respect I had for him on anything that he said involving Hebrew. Mind you, at the time I was only fluent in French and English and now I might maybe add Spanish to my list of fluent languages (as long as my brain isn’t tired and unable to process it especially after a long shift at work). If you’re as truly « serious » as most evangelicals about your salvation knowing more than your preacher might just prove critical/crucial to your soul’s future in the World to come. Of course, were you to be a Jew like me, then it’s a moot point because we don’t see the world through a christological lens of distortion with the baggage of Original sin, heaven and hell, an all powerful devil who can know everything about you to tempt you to hell, etc. As I’ve told people who’ve tried to proselytise me before, judaeo-christian is usually a term only used to assume that we Jews agree with the church on doctrines because the church borrowed and expropriated my people’s literary heritage and has attempted to kill us off for two millennia without knowing the text that they claim to hold dear. If I’ve offended you, it wasn’t intentional, and I apologise and please accept my apologies.
To me it’s not a question of an all or nothing approach to the Bible/Tanakh but a matter of having and using one’s intellect and not being a lazy dupe. Or to quote/paraphrase a Christian testament author: better to speak in tongues with understanding etc.
@@ericcastaneda8069 well done. Most won't, though, and those people (myself included) can learn a lot about interpretation and nuance in the original language, and we don't have to choose either the polyglot approach that you take or the ignorant approach that the pastor you describe takes.
Thank you for your analysis
Let’s assume Cain’s wife is a daughter of Adam and Eve. I want to know her story. How did she come to be in the land of Nod, or wherever Cain found her? Did she leave with him? Or, she was expelled prior to Cain? Either way, why?
I was a miserable student for my Sunday school teachers.
Just accept what we’re telling you, there are no inconsistencies, just let it go.
Cain was the original bad boy. He had to fight off the chicks.
Chicks? I thought he was vegetarian.
Cain, aka Vulcan, aka Ptah and Adam are one.
@ how did you arrive at that conclusion? Show your work. Better yet, post a video that Dan can respond to.
Nod is the spring equinox. The same place where Noah's Ark comes aground.
Recommend Science of the Bible, by Milton Woolley.
Yeah, but Dan, have you TRIED reading the bible in it's original King James English, just like Jesus wrote it in 'Murica?
Maybe Lilith was like “oh I like you a lot more than I liked your dad”. Haha
Thank you for what you do. If God is almighty and omniscient and is truly the author of every jot and tittle in the good book, pretty sure They would understand logical argument and fallacy and would never have allowed it to be written in such a way as to be misinterpreted 3,000 years later....
ESCAPING GOD Lili
Within our thoughts we can't delude unless we seek to gain
We cannot cheat our own true selves, we know we cannot lie
If deceiving all comes to our minds it cannot come with ease
It's all for them, they just don't care, it's only self they please.
But life goes on, death's Angel stands and bides,
Their victims age, In later years recall, the memories are not sweet
The fate's of all their lives today and yours of vile deceit
You're weighed with regret, from thoughts that haunt your days
But there's an answer that you grasp, a story you'll believe.
The story hides away the load, Confessions a requite
With their help we cheat ourselves, pretending absolution pure
But now and then it all comes back, our guilt we cannot cure
Life's a shadow box of lies, this God's a God of spite
The peace he offers isn't there, entrapment is the play
He loads your mind with guilt and shame, He makes your life a blight.
But now convinced a future fine, depends on Heaven's gate
Forgiven by the Holy Ghost, a million rules observe
This new life it goes against, the nature that you know
You're weighed down more with this new life, a life you don't deserve
They fill your mind with bible lore, confusion, guilt and fear
Your only life is now controlled by others who are chained
To Jesus, God and superstition, your life now dull and drear
The price of Christ is much too much, it cannot be sustained.
Escaping from the Christian life and all that it imbues
Takes character and courage, your new chains hard to break
But freedom from the Christian life, a life you must refuse
Will give you understanding of Mankind's largest cult
The evil of this Christian God, the lies, a big mistake
But we will give your nature back and show a whole new way
To live your life, a life of joy, The Sabbats give and take.
And when you've cast away your chains and moved towards the light
Your life's returned, that evil bond, forgotten, left behind
The tricksters with their sweetened words now turned wrathful blind
No understanding why they failed, they look to blame with fright
The Spirits of the Netherworld, control within your mind
The Jesus cult you've trodden down, your life now on is bright.
BLESSED BE.
Wow, hadn’t read CAREFULLY the book I used to believe 😂I also should’ve realized while a believer is: for a God, human were always “something” to be replaced😅it wasn’t “I a God will protect Abel” anyway those first couple can multiply and have another son😅
Thank-you Dan. you saved me from ignorance and im forever grateful ❤
Cain's and Abel's wives, Lain and Mabel.
Love the fit!
❤❤❤❤❤thanks Dan!!
I've always just kind of assumed that the creation story - that of Adam and Eve - was purely for the genealogy for the Jews and, eventually, Jesus. Meaning that their importance is specifically for that - there are other people elsewhere (see: Cain's adventures in the Land of Nod), but the reason these two are singled out is because of the lineage they foster and the story it tells. And somewhere along the way, it's morphed into the "They are the only two people that exist."
It's also a form of mental gymnastics, sure, but it makes more sense in my mind than some of the stuff that Dan is combating here.
As always, I appreciate all Dan does on his social media channels; I look forward to his daily videos.
Bluey seems to agree
I think it's possible that you are reading Genesis too carefully. I mean.. PHD, Author, etc. How much is carefully enough?
They're just fabricated stories folks. It's not that hard to figure them out once you realize that.
Thanks for all the work you do Dan! You're a lifesaver!
You do know that he's a mormon and actually believes in all of those fabricated stories, right?
A lot of individuals need to understand that a good portion of the stories they believe to be genuine events that took place are only allegorical tales meant to be mere etiological entertainment and not literal history.
In the 1600s, a Frenchman named Isaac la Peyrère came up with the idea that before Adam, there was a race of lawless men, and that Adam was merely the 1st civilized man.
did those lawless men eat magic apples, or was that just adam?
One has to understand, these accounts were handed down orally for many years. When oral presentation of a story the order is often turned around, because of audience familiarity with the history it was not an issue to them.
Even if these started as written works, those were also pretty clearly written in a different order than we received them, so plot holes between episodes are still to be expected.
In fiction we call this a "plot hole".
In the Bible, we call this a "difficult passage" that requires "careful reading", a.k.a. mental gymnastics.
Dan AND apologists are missing the real meaning behind Genesis 4. That farmers are a bunch of big meanies who are totally jealous of the fact that God loves ranchers more than them. The fact that Genesis 4 was written by ranchers is totally coincidental to the point.
Dan helped make reading Genesis interesting, at least for me.
If they were the only people around at the time-we’d all be much better banjo players. Just sayin’
I am a Christian and I think you have to take the text for what it is communicating. Not what you think it should say. I have perfect trust in the truth it communicates. Genesis is not a 19th century scientific journal. It talks about a man and woman God created and their lineage. It actually acknowledges other human species indirectly ( which we are discovering more and more about. ) I appreciate your integrity to honesty. I enjoy your channel for it helps to serve as a good mirror for an honest look at my faith.
Jupiter aka god is actually spelled IU piter, with the I as male and the U as female. We are all made in the image of Jupiter.
Where did Cain and Able get their wives?
If Eve was made from Adam's rib, we would all have the exact same DNA as Adam and Eve. Why don't we?
Why are the days of creation different in chapter 2?
Do Christians take Genesis literally when Jewish people don't? Why is that? I have so many more questions
The wife is Eve aka Virgo constellation.
Cain is a personification of Libra, which is the first night in Genesis one. His twin, Abel, is a personification of Aries, which is the the first day in Genesis one.
As the Ram sets, his horns are entangled in the thorn bush (winter). This act is god (Aries) sacrificing himself for humanity (Isaac).
In a real world chronological contexts, do you think that the founding stories of Rome where one twin kills the other, could be influencing the Cain narrative? I was thinking that it would be a great way of showing why that powerful state existed outside of the culture while still incorporating that culture into the outsider’s as kin, but the kind you don’t associate with lol.
@kariannecrysler640 the Romans weren't a blip on the radar when this story was first told; the narrative of one brother killing another is very, very ancient. The Romulus and Remus narrative descends from an older Indo-European narrative where the brothers are just called "Man" and "Twin", but the earliest complete version of a similar story that survives to this day is the Egyptian story of Set murdering Osiris (probably not related to the Indo-European story, but who knows)
@ so there could definitely be ties to the story. When written…. Isn’t this an unknown?
@ we don't know when the earliest version of the Indo-European story was written down in Russian Steppes, or when the earliest version of the Egyptian story was written down, and therefore it would be impossible to say if there's a connection between the two, but it's unlikely. The Cain and Abel story is sometimes thought to descend from a third, probably unrelated narrative about the shepherd god-king Dumuzi competing with a farmer named Enkimdu for the attention of a goddess.
@maklelan Maybe you could do a video on this, but I could never fully wrap my head around the notion that Adam and Eve 1) had enough time and physical health to procreate that many progeny, and 2) Scripture not address, what with all that inbreeding, the consequences of same.
I remember some scholar suggesting that the Hebrew could be read to suggest that Cain and Abel were actually twins, with Cain just being the elder...I've sometimes wondered if there were any stories about Seth outside the Bible. Interesting to think about the stories he may have heard about the older brothers he never met...Or maybe he eventually DID meet Cain. Could be a cool novel in that!
Thank you. I never noticed that in 4:25.
The people in the land of Nod were dream people.
I love the videos. And the comments are rather scholarly at times. Here’s something out of left field. You are way more handsome (read hot) with your clean shaven looks. Makes this gay guy even MORE ATTENTIVE to what you’re saying in your videos! 😁😁😁😁
The fit for this viewing is "Lady Louse," a Lushootseed story.
Pre-Adamites
I fear that most people who need to understand what you're saying, and clean up their acts, either don't have the mental horsepower to understand it or have too much at stake psychologically or financially to admit that you're right.
My own personal later take on this puzzlement was that the tellers of those tales were looking at the world from the POV of the "chosen" people and were identifying Adam and Eve and their progeny as just their own ancestors, not as the ancestors of all human beings, and that their chosen people status began by being special creations of God.
Where those other people came from---the people Cain was afraid would kill him once he ventured outside the Garden---well, who knows and who cares, right?
The scripture writers were engaged in myth-making for their own purposes, not engaging in a scientific search for truth. For facts. For data.
the story expressly states that A+E were the first people alone in the garden, ate the apple, and were cursed, thus giving rise to humanity
There is no mention of an apple.
The "first people" or the "first people who mattered", a/k/a, our own blessed ancestors, assembled by God's own hands?
Unlike those.....goyim?
😉
Just because they were cursed and then humanity arose. Doesn't mean that all humanity had to come from A+E. If God is all powerful then he could have sprinkled the earth with seeds and turned the seeds in to people.
It seemed like another part of the Bible talked about God coming from a community of gods. If there was a group of gods they could have all been out there experimenting away.
@@mlatham23 so...magic. if god is all powerful then why try to make any sense out of any of it. it's all just magic, facts, logic, words and reality don't matter.
i always wondered what the names of the cities where cain went, the ones east of eden
At this point they might as well assert that Cain married Jesus, and he bore him a son. Now that would be a miracle.
Historical retcon literature always causes problems.
This is to say nothing of the implicit endorsement of incest if Cain’s wife was his sister
As Morticia Addams said: "Gomez, don't torture yourself, that's my job." I kind of feel like reading Genesis fits that bill just a bit.
When I was in college in the 70's, one day while I was making some Celestial Seasonings Tea*, my roommate started reading aloud from a book he had brought home weeks earlier. He began:
"74:0.1 (828.1) ADAM AND EVE arrived on Urantia [the Universe's name for our planet], from the year A.D. 1934, 37,848 years ago. It was in midseason when the Garden was in the height of bloom that they arrived. At high noon and unannounced, the two seraphic transports, accompanied by the Jerusem personnel intrusted with the transportation of the biologic uplifters to Urantia, settled slowly to the surface of the revolving planet in the vicinity of the temple of the Universal Father. All the work of rematerializing the bodies of Adam and Eve was carried on within the precincts of this newly created shrine. And from the time of their arrival ten days passed before they were re-created in dual human form for presentation as the world’s new rulers. They regained consciousness simultaneously. The Material Sons and Daughters always serve together. It is the essence of their service at all times and in all places never to be separated. They are designed to work in pairs; seldom do they function alone."
Naturally my curiosity was piqued, so I went into the living room and asked him: "what is that???" He handed me the book and told me to check out the Table of Contents.The Papers on Adam and Eve were written by the angel Solonia, the 'voice in the garden'. There were many authors, some of them being Melchizedeks. So I was introduced to an entirely different version of "the beginning."
Cain and Abel didn't come along until over a 100 years later, after the pair already had over a thousand descendants. And Adam was not Cain's biological father, Cano, from the Land of Nod, was. And yes, the book tells us who Nod was.
Interestingly enough, the book describes the Garden as having been built by volunteer labor over 90 years previously, headed by Van and Amadon, who had been on the planet for over 400,000 years using the Tree of Life. And Solonia wrote of two brick walls that protected the Garden from the Syrian territory to the East. Using sonar and other underwater scanning devices, those two walls have since been found, so we now know where the first Garden was...
* Celestial Seasonings was significant as I later learned, its leaders were also readers of this book, (whom I eventually became friends with).
For more, visit: www.urantiabook .org/074-Adam-and-Eve/#ubf-paperTitle [spaces added to keep Google happy.]
The Urantia book is fake. It is directly contradicted by science numerous times. It doesn't even have the excuse that it was written before it was known the world was round.
Hmm the ancient people taught using allegory.. could it be that?
Or maybe the original text wasn't trying to teach anything and was just a story.
@digitaljanus nothing from the past was "just a story" the mere fact that they have survived the centuries is a strong indication that they are much much more. There is always a degradation of information over time (think of the game telephone). Something that is a lie, being built on nothing will never last. But Something with hidden truth will survive the ages as people pass it down....
For example Jacob and esau is merely the Jewish version of the two nature's teaching (one animal- (esau with his animal skins) and Jacob the divine nature.) You see this theme in sumerian mythology with gilgamesh and enkidu, Hercules (half god ) and his brother (fully mortal) or castor and pollux.. the animal nature they referred to as "the beast" and these two nature's were always in conflict with one another but I digress...
YHWH was not the God of all, only the God of the Israelites. The 70 nation gods polytheistic narrative seems to remedy this.
and although there is some negotiation of the text is needed, to me it seems like Genesis 1 and 2 are basically two different origin accounts and the first could be understood as a broad creation of man, independent of Adam. While the second, is specifically about YHWH and his people.
I might be wrong, but it certainly seems to make more sense than the alternative.
Is this… the first time I’ve ever agreed with Dan?
What a strange thing.
It always amuses me how these folks somehow think they know more than the scholars who spend their lives studying, researching, examining, and dissecting the texts. Same in science. Someone amateurs who aren’t scientists discover things while googling that thousands of research scientists overlooked. Amazing, isn’t it? 😅
I guess that removes the incest from Adam's and Eve's kids.
Some of these folks you mention probably don't even know what hermeneutics is.
I still like the idea of A&E being Aliens, 😏
With tails.
If I had a dollar for every time I was told by a Creationist, you just have to read this one more thing. And then you will see that you are wrong. I could have a mansion in Beverly Hills and invite Dan and all of you over for prawns on the barbie!
Could it be a story about the disappearance of the neanderthals?
I like your video dan. People were here before adam and eve were created. Adam was created to work the garden vetchtables.
Adam is the six nights in Gen 1. Eve is the six days in Gen. 2.
Why does it even matter who was born and when as if the Bible could actually get you to heaven? And if the story of Adam and Eve is an etiology why do such details matter? How does it apply to us today?
The text has to be rejected in order to retain the dogma of original sin, the favored explanation for getting a good God off the hook for suffering.
Genesis 4:25: “Adam again had sexual relations with his wife, and she gave birth to a son. She named him Seth because, as she said, ‘God has appointed for me another offspring in place of Abel, because Cain killed him.”
Some people say it was lilith that Cain had children with
Question for Dan: I had read that the Cain and Abel story is based on an old Canaanite story (unrelated to creation myths), and was incorporated into the genesis stories. Is this correct??????
There were giants on earth. By the fallen ones and Lilith.
Are there traditions about Cain marrying Lilith, Adam's wife from Gen 1? That doesn't explain where everyone else in Wandering came from, but it's at least one plot hole patched.
If only you had gone to school for this...
To me it makes perfect sense that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman that El created. Not the first humans ever. But people always said to me: "that's no what the bible says" 😅😅😅
Bluey!
Were Cain and Abel twins?
According to the text, probably not. From Genesis 4: "Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have produced a man with the help of the Lord.” Next she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a tiller of the ground." (NRSVue)
There is a midrash that Qayin and Hével were twins, other midrash that each had a twin sister for a wife and another midrash that Qayin had a twin sister for a wife but that Hével was a triplet to two girls. FWIW
Speaking of Abel and Cain why is it that they aren't mentioned in the Genealogy of Adam and Eve in Genesis 5
Bible of Color has also being talking about Genesis, what about another episode with him in Data over Dogma about it?
The verses you are referring about Cain are fairly ambiguous in terms of chronology. After Cain kills Abel and is cast out, the verses tell about his life in the land of Nod. As you point out, it refers to him and his wife having children, and then tells the story of his further lineage with a little dioramic scene of Lamech repeating the sins of Cain many generations later. In other words, a broad stretch of time passes in this aside, covering multiple generations of Cain’s bloodline before returning to the scene in Eden where Adam and Eve conceive another child, Seth. It’s practically impossible to tell how much of this aside, if any, occurs prior to the rest of the events in Eden, apart from the expulsion itself, which is immediate. It seems fairly safe to assume that not all of the events detailing generations of Cain’s bloodline up to and beyond the story of Lamech happened before the conception and birth of Seth, perhaps some of them did, and perhaps not, it’s impossible to tell, at least based on my reading. Seems odd to make assertions about the chronology of things in this context. Based on the context of the full chapter, read start to finish, I don’t see how it’s irrational to look at the description of events detailing Cain’s life and lineage as occurring after the events in the garden, it’s very open for interpretation in this regard. So some of your conjecture comes off as somewhat baseless. Lmk if I’m missing something from your reading, I just looked up the verses on Google, NIV version. Cheers
It's more likely that it's several disparate stories thrown together in the same book.
Then who does Cain fear will kill him as he's being cast out?
@@sparrowthesissy2186 I don't know. Do you know? The only ones with any knowledge of Cain's transgressions would be God, Adam, and Eve, so Cain's fear about being slain is completely irrational unless he fears that his parents may kill him or God himself may appear in some earthly form to take vengeance upon him. Right?
If there were humans out there they would have no knowledge of the events, so why would they wish to kill Cain? It's not logical. My only gripe is the authoritative claims being made. Were their humans outside of Eden or not... it's all pure speculation at that point, the text does not make this clear, and any definitive claims made on the subject are conjecture.
Why are people so desperate for certainty? Are you afraid to not know? It's OK to not know. Only the fragile, insecure ego needs to convince itself it knows.
Pre-Adamic men! There, problem solved! ;-)
Incidentally, the literalist can still retort, saying that Dr Dan is himself reading into the text, because the text nowhere says that God didn't create any other people. They could say it's possible that Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel have contemporaries, that were also created by God and Genesis doesn't mention them, and if so, they might say Dr Dan is going too far by insisting we should read that as if Genesis says there were definitely no other people around.
I'm just playing devil's advocate. As a former calvinist evangelical, I still hear all of the "yeah but..." circular answers in my head that I would have given back in those days.
Dan is explicitly stating that the Genesis narrative implies that there are other people, so I'm not sure how that's a counter-argument. It's literally the same point.
Hard to call it the "literalist" position when it involves inventing and adding details that literally aren't there.
@@KneelBeforeDru I'm just pointing out that Dan can be said to be extrapolating as well, because it doesn't say there were no other people at any point.
That's what a religious literalist would tell themselves to avoid taking this on.
I'm not even convinced all the original readers would assume Adam and his family are the only created humans, since the story is a compilation from multiple sources, as Dan points out.
@@sparrowthesissy2186 not really. They are so called because they take the text literally. You even had to use the word "literally" in your reply, so it seems logical to call them literalists.
@ I still don't understand your point; Dan is saying that the original intent of the text was intended to convey that there were other people on the Earth; he explains this by noting that the text is assembled from multiple different narratives. How could someone arguing that there were other people on the Earth be used as a "counter-argument"? It's the same point. That person would be agreeing with Dan's interpretation.
Between chapter 4 & 5 you have two separate genealogies i. e. the Yahwistic and Priestly listings. The Bible is just chalk full of contradicting stories.
Where is the original video he is talking about? Because it doesn't seem to be on his channel. I see the Gen. 1 &2-3 video, and he mentions it there again, but still cannot find the original video.
Women are not always considered people nor worthy of mention. So the author may have thought there would have been daughters, it’s just that they’re not really people to him.
Just watch Year One, there’s people everywhere.😂
Are there not lots of dogma to unlearn?
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