Love you're explanation on speaker sensitivity, I've never understood it, till now. I have a 7.3.4 system with def teck 9080 towers and center, def teck pro 1000 sides and rears. With klips over head. With the anthem 1140 driving it all, For the first 2 years. Then i added a anthem 3 channel amp for the front stage. And wow did the system come alive! I read somewhere someone described it like someone lifted a vale off of the speakers. Wich is exactly right. To me it made a huge difference. I love this addiction of ours.
Hi I replied but I can't see my reply. Let me know if you cannot see it. I was explaining how your system is a very unique combination because the LCR have built-in subs so they need less power. Your AVR is also a 2 power supply AVR with a built-in amp in it. I'll re-explain if you don't see it.
@techsamurai11 yes the subs in the def teck towers are powered, meaning they are plugged in the wall. but the anthem 1140 has enough power to handle all 11 speakers and two subs, the 3rd is split from one of the subs in the towers. It's behind the couch to give the couch some rumble. As I understand it, the more speakers you add the less power for each speaker. So the towers are 300 watt speakers so I'm only guessing but each tower were getting about 60 watts.(not for the subs, but the tweeters and mid, front and back, bi-poler) So like youthman was explaining I was missing out on the dynamic range of the towers. So when I amped just the lcr they came alive! Not only that but adding the amp for the fronts frees up that power for the rest of the system.
@@domeniccatalano-zs6xd The 1140 has 2 transformers - a class A/B toroidal that powers 5 channels including the LCR and the main surrounds. The 2nd amp is Class D and powers 6 channels. That's for the height channels and rear surrounds and it's more power than they need. I'm not sure what you mean by subs. Are you connecting the LFE channels (subwoofer) on the amp to the L and R speakers or to a dedicated sub like a SVS or Rythmik or whatever brand? Your speakers are rated at 300 watts but that doesn't mean you need 300 watts. If you were watching a movie at 80db with your 1140 and the new amp, they should have sounded identical unless the 1140 has an issue with 4 ohm impedance speakers. I do know it's a bit tricky with 4 ohms - I think Gene from Audioholics recommended keeping the 8 ohm setting on an AVR. As for load, I do wonder how much sound the LCR play in a movie not just in sounds but volume. The usual numbers that folks reference are 60-70% of dialogue for the center but that doesn't take into account volume. We may be looking of 90% of the volume load on the LCR. Which does beg the question of why on earth we have 8 surrounds for 1.25 % of sound each🙂
@techsamurai11 you sound like you know more about this stuff than me, but I'll try to explain what subs I'm talking about. The definitive technology 9080 towers have a built in powered 12" sub. From there I'm not sure how to explain different than I did previously but yes the external amp is only for the lcr , and it made a huge difference, it opened up the sound. It made a huge difference. I thought I understand why but mabie I don't. I just know how much better it sounds. I hope I've made it clear. But anyway I hope you and your family have a great holiday.
My buddy has paradigm monitor 9 v6. He had it powered by a Sony reciever, sounded bad at loud volumes. Then he got a pre amp, amp combo, sounded way better. Then he got a bryston 3b, sounded even better! Then i got a 2nd bryston, we bridged the amps into 400w mono blocks, and again, the sound was even better! More power = better sound. Bryston amps were built in the 80s. Mine gets really hot, so it needs new output transistors.
Excellent presentation. Nothing was left out, there is nothing else to add. I've got a 5-channel 200 wpc amp, for all the reasons you mentioned. Well worth it, it was a great addition to my 11 channel AVR.
Nice. This showed up in my suggestions. I watched it. Did I learn anything? No. However, for those who are starting out in the journey of better sound. Watch and learn. It is a simple explanation easy to understand For the side of learning, this is a good foundation video. The next should cover the decoding sound. (Sound feild). How to achieve the best sound based on a good core setup. Follow that up with a sealed vs. ported speaker design. Remember the core rules. Your system is only as good as your hearing. Everyone has different preferences for what sounds good.
When i first set up my home theatre in 2005 in a 1,600 sq basement with bookshelf's as my fronts ! The receiver kept going in protect mode and shutting down. I've progressed to Polk RTI A9 Floor standing Emotiva XPA-5 200 wpc and crown 2 channel 300 watt for the Polks Nice clean power. I only drive 4 height speakers with a Denon 3800. I'd never waste money buying a 160 wpc receiver. Always external amps for bed layers. Auro 3D is the way to go for music and movies even 20 year old Bluray's. No weak Atmos track needed.
@@edwardsanchez3708 If you mean it made everything louder, then that could be it. But that difference would only occur at the limits of what your previous amp could produce. Double the power produces 3dB more output, which is not a lot. Unless you were able to compare with instant switching between the two options, then any perceived difference is unreliable.
It’s not the best/highest end amp but I added an emotiva xpa 3 gen 3 for my front sound stage. 275 watts each is really nice, my avr drives my surrounds. Well worth the upgrade. I did also use REW to make the 3 subs play nice with the mains. Def worth the time & effort. It drives my prime pinnacle mains and ultra center much better than my avr. It’s really noticeable when I run the mains in full range as there not very sensitive speakers & res it gets loud! - merry Christmas to everyone
One thing to notice when it comes to sensitivity specs is that some brands cheat a little. 1 watt 1 meter is the norm but 2.83 volts is also used. You need 2.83 volts for 1 watt at 8 ohms and thats all good but some use 2.83 volt on lower ohm speakers also, but at 4 ohm thats more than 1 watt. A 4 ohm speaker only needs 2 volts for 1 watt so using 2.83 Volt there is boosting the sensitivity by roughly 3 db on paper making the speaker look more sensitive than it is.
Wowwww. A big applause to you for such a detailed explanation for a layman like me. I’ve always wondered if I was ever going to understand all these ‘stereo things’. Wowwwww. No need to say; I subscribed immediately!!!! God bless you!!!
Excellent video that explains in detail about the value of external amplification. If you know the basis of the value of external amplifiers, the next step is upgrading to a quality processor.
If you contact Marantz they recommend using the external amp for bed layer speakers. Ask on a home cinema forum and they say Atmos or height speakers. I've tried both ways and confirm the Marantz way sounds better.
Yes, your bed layer are the speakers that are on the ground plane. Hide speakers would be either placed on your wall or on your ceiling or in your ceiling. The bed layer would be the 5.1, 7.1, 9.1.
@@Youthman Safe to say lowest sensitivity should use the emotiva on ? My L\R are Klipsch 800f, I’m on my 4th center channel as I just got the Polk Es50 and it seems to be the best so far in terms of clear dialogue, the Svs prime seemed muddled, don’t know if it’s my crossover settings LFE settings, but it’s sounds OK as far as the center
I have a system similar to yours. I stopped using AVR power years ago due to the reasons you so clearly explain. I use a Surround Sound Processor (XLR) to distribute channel information to 4 different amps. I have a 3 channel, 4500 Watt (1500WPC) to drive my full range LCR's (JTR 215RT's) 3 additional pro-audio amps to drive the other 7 speakers (surrounds, surround backs and 4 height speakers). This give me a total of 12,000 watts of Class D available but I seldom use even half that amount of power. I describe all that available power as headroom. This overpowered system simply means that I can listen to all types of movies and concert videos at appropriate levels. Like you I'm -10-15 db most of the time but for my occasional blow out the cobwebs sessions I can get up to and well beyond reference. For example, last night our Xmas movie choice was Top Gun Maverick. I played it at -10db out of consideration to some of the more big sound averse folks but my preference would have been closer to reference to simulate that big movie, big sound, and immersive image that clearly separates HT systems. My goal for my Home Theater was to have an Dolby Atmos Theater experience at home. My audio has me there or better with the current setup but the video (4K Sony laser PJ, 136" AT screen) falling a little short. Jeff P delivered and setup my LCR's and was my guide to over the top audio (you know Jeff and know what I mean). After many years and many thousands of dollars spent chasing the ideal system, I have landed in the sweet spot for me and I'm content. With you getting into the business, I'm sure your system will continue to evolve to new levels of amazing and I'd love to see and hear your setup sometime. 😀 Edit; BTW, if you're ever planning a trip to Northern California we could meet up. I need a PJ calibration and if you have the ability to do a pro calibration of my Sony I'd be interested.
You sounded a whole lot better in a sponsored video compared to you being in a different room. It could be the lack of acoustic room treatment that seems to amplify the low end of your voice or it could be the Rode PodMic. Oh, and I heard the sound of Windows 11 around 5:45.
The only difference is I’m using a RODE Podcaster microphone in my office and a RODE Wireless Pro with Lavalier in my other videos. A podcast microphone amplifies the lower registry of my voice and has a specific sound signature to it.
Happy Hanucka 🎉 Michael and the crew from Obsessed. Michael is preaching truth, before you room correct, DSP, bass traps try a external amplifier. Your audiophile hometheater journey will really begin from that point onward.
I just recently acquired a Cinema 50 from Marantz. It is rated at 110WPC. I am using it for my living room with Klipsch Speakers. I am already toying of getting an external amp. I have them in my dedicated HT room. Yes, you can hear a difference. You get more quality Moree punch. As Youthman states the internal amp will not handle the peaks and lows of the sound coming in. Imagine drinking a thick milkshake with a thin straw. Everyone know how's difficult it is and then when you switch to a bigger straw it is easier. For the car guys as well, it's like having a restrictive exhaust and intake, but when you open them up you. get more gains. Now to debate which amp to get, Marantz 8807 of the OSD??????
With most Klipsch speakers, power is not the limiting factor. With a speaker with 92dB sensitivity, 110w is enough to produce peaks of 105dB, which is full reference volume. If you don't listen at reference, then the power demand can be far less.
So i have just found this hobby!!! And have always prfered to go to live shows and sit in the stands even with the stage for great reference. Have always found that listening to music at home would have the instruments cluttered and very taxing. Now i have found this community to have an experience i would love and enjoy at home! Yall are kiding me!!!! So i have brought out my old Kenwood VR615 and tower speakers but still not enjoyable! I hope one day i can get to where you all are. Enjoyed the content and you really helped me understand alot. I still have alot of questions and maybe you could start a series for beginners like me to better understand, make the right choices, and have a great path for up grades down the road.... Cause to be honest it is very confusing just starting and most talk over the beginners heads.
Welcome! You’re correct there’s a lot to learn but the great thing is I have over 1000 videos that can help out and we put together some home theater basics videos that you can see here - obsessedhometheater.com/pages/video-guides
What are some solutions for issues with dialing in dialogue in movies and tv shows? Also explain why this happens? Sometimes you’ll be listening and can’t hear what’s being said because either the rest of audio is drowning out the dialogue weather it be the music track or loud explosions. So you’ll be forced to either turn on subtitles or turn up volume to try to hear what was said but then it will be at overall at a uncomfortable volume
Compare your streaming service to physical media. Does it happen with physical media too? If so, you either need acoustic treatment or a better center channel. Here are some tips to improve your center channel clarity - th-cam.com/video/24c7PkOG1vE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Pp_eAaVE_hOVTm3-
One key factor is AVR's when they advertise wattage, its almost always shared across all channels. 150W is not per channel but shared across all channels. An external amp provides dedicated wattage for each channel.
AVRs have a dedicated amp for each channel. I don't know where you get the idea that power is shared across all channels. There is a common power supply, but when playing surround sound content, the power supply is not a limiting factor.
I’ve been waiting patiently for Marantz to have a replacement for their 7706/ 8805. A mini AV10 plz then 100% I’d get a buckeye to match! But if NAD releases their new flagship AVR 1st I’ll likely go that route.. it’d be flagship level & class D, I have efficient speakers and don’t listen to near reference levels so.. I think it’d be the best case for an AVR situation.
@ yes, hopefully they kink out their issues before releasing such an AVR. I just want to make sure I’m set with the next AVR I get since mine is nearly 10 years old now
I think I want to add an amplifier to my 5.1.4 Focal Sib Evo setup. I got the 2x atmos bookshelfs, and 2x non-atmos using one a center channel; SVS sub...but of course that has it's own amp. They're all relatively small speakers, and all 9 channels are roughly rated at 6ohms and 90db sensitivity. When I take my voltmeter to the speakers (unpowered) they all actually read ~2.4 ohms. I'm using a Sony STR-AZ5000ES reciever which seems to be handling business pretty well. The receiver only has 4ohm or 8ohm settings which I have set to 4ohms since that's closer to what I've measured and the crossover is 80hz (speakers are rated down to 65hz). I'm not sure if it makes more sense for me to get a 3 channel amplifier for the LRC, or a 5 channel amplifier for LRC+SRSL and only leave the 4 atmos channels to the receiver. Any suggestions?
You should never set your AVR to the 4 ohms setting, no matter what impedance your speakers are. Leave it at 8 ohms. Audioholics has an extensive write-up on this. You are only limiting your power output by changing the AVR to 4 ohms with no benefit. The resistance as measured by a multimeter is not the same as the speaker impedance and will always be lower. The impedance of a speaker varies by frequency, which a multimeter cannot indicate. I would not worry about an external amp for those speakers. The speaker output is going to be limited by distortion because of the inherent limitations of the speakers, no matter how much power you put into them. If your Sony sounds good, I would leave it as is.
Good explanation. Good point about amps remaining the same, and the processing changing. I want a rack with probably 24 high quality xlr preamp level outs, with a user interface that can be updated with the latest and greatest. All external amps. In my dreams.
I am between anthem mca325 and 525.does the extra cost of the 525 worth just to drive the two back surrounds or the 325 is all what I need for the LRC stage?
What AVR do you have? The extra channels in the amplifier depends on alternatives. Taking the load off your AVR from your front stage means more power for the rest. What speakers are you driving and what AVR?
My avr is Denon 3800 and the speakers are focal chora lcr and surround back with 4 height channels svs ultra elevation.LRC will be replaced from the paradigm founder series 100f and 90c as Center.
@@akisdiakatos8377 I’d say go with the 5ch amp to power the chora bed-layer speakers. The AVR can push those heights no problem, and the 3800 is a great pre-amp option for those who want to add a power amp for more demanding speakers. I think it’ll sound great!
At the end of your video starting at 20:12 all your mistakes and restarts have been left in/missed by your editor. Also just a suggestion that you look at the camera instead of looking just passed it. Right now it feels like I’m watching a blind person w no connection. Just my opinion. Otherwise great video 👍🏾
Thanks. I have to fire my editor. Oh wait …that’s me. 🤣 I’m actually looking directly at my camera. My right eye is a lazy eye and looks off to the side.
not a big deal but your head and body is not straight on with the camera, so it's not your lazy eye (I have one too) its the positioning off-angle (to our left, your right), even your nose, shoulders, chest are slightly tilted and neither eye is dead on, nor your face. fyi they use that off angle positioning when interviewing someone, so it looks like you are speaking to the reporter off camera instead of speaking directly to the audience.
I’ve noticed similar when filming in my theater room. My camera is dead center of my seat. I’m looking at the camera. Or at least my brain thinks I am. The only thing I can think of is my vision is telling me I’m looking at the camera when I’m not. Who knows.
Good morning. Could you answer my question? I connected the amplifier to the Denon AVR-X4800h receiver, on the front trio of speakers. Can I leave the amplifier's volume knob at maximum and then calibrate it in Audyssey? Will I have clipping problems or any other problem? Or should I reduce the volume? The amplifier was a Fosi ZA3 that has a volume knob. I'm from Brazil, I love your videos, congratulations and thank you for always helping us!
The guy with the question above didn't mean the volume on his avr, he ment to say the gain control knob on his dedicated power amplifier. He was wondering during the speaker calibration if it would be fine to have the gain on his amp set to max, or should he turn it down and if so then by how much. Myself I have 2 dedicated amps, one is a 2-channel crown, second and newest I have the tone winner AD-7300 2.0 7-channel. With the tone winner being a home theater amp, there is no gain control to speak of which makes things very simple. The crown however being a pro amp, it has not 1 but 2 gain control knobs, one for each channel, so I leave that set to one notch past the 3/4 mark.
My apologies I misunderstood what he was asking. Many years ago, I borrowed a QSC amplifier and it was recommended to me to leave the game all the way up on the amplifier. But truthfully, I’m not very familiar with using pro amps in a home theater system.
@@randysalsman6992Exactly this question. I'm afraid of damaging the amplifier in some way, clipping or entering protection mode, but I also don't want to waste the amplifier's power. I've been told not to use the full volume, but I'm not completely convinced and would like other opinions. Thanks for your help.
@@RodrigoTMA The gain on a pro amp is an input attenuator. You cannot harm the amp by leaving it all the way up. One possible reason to turn it down is if you hear hiss coming from the speakers. A lower gain setting can sometimes help with noise. If you change the gain setting, you should recalibrate your AVR. Too low a setting could result in not getting full power level out of the amp.
If the 2 front speakers are connected to an external amp is it possible to use the existing front speaker terminals from my Denon receiver for 2 extra speakers? Thanks!
Hi, are you talking about like having a separates -individual audio components like a preamplifier and power amplifier, or we can add amplifier to existing avr Audio/Video Receiver
This video was mainly referring to when should you consider adding an amplifier to an AVR but certainly applies to separates as well. That is just the next level.
I love to have headroom. So maybe that is why i am feeding my 4ohms speakers with 775watts each from my crown 2502 amps. My bedlayer has each lots of power and i wouldnt have it any other way. I got 775W for each channel in my system. And my marantz Cinema 40 does better with added power amps and my front stage, well. My hole setup comes so much more alive when being fed with lots of power. Very detailed video Michael. Very useful for the ones who dont really understand the hole idea surrounding sensetivity and ohms. Some speakers dont like to be underpowered. Have merry x-mas and all the best for 2025.
@@Youthman Well, i took advise from all you guys on YT. Thats why my system is the way it is. Words are well deserved my man. I hope you are doing good and the family too. Stay strong in life and in faith brother.
Been thinking about getting a power amp. I have a denon x3800h and im curious how a power amp can improve my system. Do you think a 2 channel power amp will make a big difference?
I have the same receiver but still use an Outlaw 5000 amplifier to power my front left, center and right channels. Those three speakers are each now getting around 150 watts and it really makes them come alive.
Im using a denon s760h avr and polk xt monitor speakers in 5.2. As you said on sensitivity, my speakers are at 86. What is your recommendation for ext amp? Im new to this arena and was wondering if it would be beneficial and how big of an amp i should use. Thank you for another great video.
Your Denon AVR does not have preamp outputs so there is no practical way to connect an external amplifier. That said, those speakers are fine with the power you have from the s760H. No reason to use an external amplifier. Power handling of the speakers is 150w and it is likely the speakers will hit their limits before you exceed the capability of the Denon you have. You don't say what subs you have, but most inexpensive systems are woefully lacking in sub output and that should be your first concern before worrying about power. Nothing wrong with those speakers, but if you want more dynamics and more output, then I would look at upgrading the speakers as well before worrying about power.
@@gregworrel2623 Thank you for the info. I have two polk xt 12s. The system sounds great but as I said, I'm new to this and watching a ton of videos to get it tweaked.
Looking to add an anthem 325 to my rf7iii/rc64iii front stage. My question is, being as I sit 12 feet away would I be able to tell a difference? My current avr is a yamaha a4a rated @ 110watts x 2 channel. My listening ranges from -20dbs through -12dbs off the front of the avr. The speakers sound fantastic all ready, I’m just scared I’m underpowering them severely. Or would money be better spent elsewhere, thanks!
This is what I did with my home theater system, as I put in 4 24-inch subwoofers, and they are connected to two professional amplifiers, and so I have a powerful system not only for watching movies but for listening to music as well, ohh merry chrostmas brothah 🥳🎄🎄
I value my community and will always be active in the comments of each video. Of course I can’t possibly answer every comment, but I do my best to answer as many as I can.
Would there be any advantage of replacing an 11-channel amp (AD-8300PA) with multiple smaller amps? I use an X4700H. I won't be able to do anything for a while as I just bought my first house 3 days ago, but I was just curious. Merry Christmas! :)
Your upgrade thought is dependent on the speakers you use. Installing a 3 channel amp to power the front three (LCR) can be the biggest value of change as long those speakers are big enough to justify the boost in power from a separate amp.
Hi would appreciate some advice. I have an Epson 5040UB for the last 8 years, in my living room it’s been repaired three times been looking at laser projectors in the $3000-$5000 any recommendations? I have a 16 x12 shed considering turning shed into theater room. But right now will watch from living room. Merry Christmas and thank you for your time. I’m in Florida so no basement. Lol
The example you gave, the ultra evolution pinnacle speakers are 4 ohm, even though it says six ohms as many have said including Gene at Audiohalics. So that may change the watts…right?
That's a great question that I did not have an answer to. I asked ChatGPT to help. LOL I posted to ChatGPT my chart and said, "Let's say the above doubling chart was for 8 ohm speakers. Would anything change if the speakers were 4 ohms?" Yes, if the speakers were 4 ohms instead of 8 ohms, the chart would reflect the fact that the amplifier delivers more power to the 4-ohm load. This is because power is calculated using the formula: 𝑃=𝑉2/R Where P is power (watts), V is voltage, and R is resistance (ohms). Lower resistance means higher power for the same voltage output. For example: An amplifier rated for 100 watts into 8 ohms would typically deliver approximately 200 watts into 4 ohms (assuming the amplifier is stable at 4 ohms). The sound level in decibels would increase due to the higher power, resulting in a louder output for 4-ohm speakers at the same volume setting. However, the relationship between dB and power doubling (+3 dB) remains constant regardless of the impedance. The specific wattage values for each decibel level would shift because of the higher power handling at 4 ohms.
They are rated at 6 ohms but edge on 4 ohms depending on how they are driven. I am powering them and my SVS Ultra Evolution center with 700W per and they sing beautifully. The speakers will take what they need from amps.
My wife will only put up with so many speakers in our living room. I've had a 5 channel Carver Amplifier for 20 years now. 6 years ago I upgraded my AV preamp to a Marantz AV7005 for the HDMI and I have been
I’m not sure if there’s an ideal amount. I have the monolith 11 X which is 300 W to my front three speakers and 100 W to my surrounds and height speakers.
100% I definitely do not feel like I’m missing anything by not having more power for my 110HT-SL that are 95dB - obsessedhometheater.com/products/noesis-speaker-series?variant=43231116656674
Absolutely. I had a Denon in the RZ50 class and after adding an Outlaw 7000x 4 years ago it invigorated my HT exactly as Michael describes in this video. Separation, detail, dynamics, stage etc.
@Mjaybird you've said on the Facebook groups that you listen at a really, really low volume because of living in an apartment. You don't need an amp listening at really low volume. Now if you want one just to want one than that's different.
@@Mjaybird if you want an amp just to have one by all means buy one. I buy things because sometimes I just want them. At those volumes you're not going to tell a difference at all though. You'd be better off spending that money on more elac speakers first. Then go for the amp. Merry Christmas!
Will you still get all the benefits if you’re only powering some speakers with an amp? For example, I have a 7.2.4 system. If I get a 7 channel amp to just power the bed layer speakers, how much benefit will I get from that? Or should I just wait until I can power all of them?
Agree with Youthman ^^^. I run 7 speakers plus a couple of heights, total of nine. My power amp has 5 channels 200 wpc. I choose to power L/C/R with the external amp for 250 wpc to each since those speakers draw the most power. The AVR internal amps power everything else. Win/Win.
Left me wondering why not pair a sound processor instead of an AVR with the amplifier if the AVR is reduced to just sound processing when an amplifier is added as an enhancement. I guess the sound processor will serve the purpose of the AVR in the HT chain
LOL ya i thought i was going crazy for a minute, why is he repeating himself? Great video though super informative! I'm gonna get a Amp for my LCR and my Denon 4800H with martin logan speakers. I have always felt the speakers sounded muddy and distorted so going to give this a try see if i notice a difference.
Let me know if it helps. Also check out this video on how to improve the clarity of your center channel - th-cam.com/video/24c7PkOG1vE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=iYsxPdtiKQNo2rSk
Ok amateur dumb question coming up… If you’re running an avr that puts out 100 watts/channel…and you’re running a front left front right Center and sub…is there any point in putting an external amp on it? If so…should it be more than 100 watts so you get more amplification than the avr was putting out?
I don’t think it’s a dumb question at all. If you’re only running three speakers on your AVR, you’re going to be fine. It’s when you start adding nine or 11 speakers, especially when paired with inefficient speakers that you will benefit the most by adding an external amplifier. But it also depends on the things that I mention in the video like the sensitivity of your speakers, how loud you listen, how big is your room, and how far do you sit from your speakers.
@ thank you for quick reply. I want to do the Marantz 60, paired with the pwm3 on wall speakers…is that strong enough or should I add an external amp? The room isn’t big at all…in fact I’d say it’s small.
Phew, you had me worried that I left something goofy at the end of the video. Often times I edit the video but I’ve spent so many hours editing that I don’t really want to spend 22 minutes to watch the entire thing again to see if I missed anything lol
Merry Christmas, to you and yours. Thank you, for the video. I'm thinking your answer will be yes, I could use an amplifier. But I'm asking anyway. I have a Sony avr, 7.2, 175 watts PC, 2channels driven, capable specs. Have Klipsch speakers, LCR, 2 rears, 2 atmos, one sub. Unfortunately AVR does NOT have pre-outs. To enjoy full benefits of set-up, should I invest in upgrading AVR and buying an amp? I am mostly happy with current setup, but would like more volume, sometimes? Thank you, for you response, when your able. Enjoy holiday first!! Peace.
Yes, if your Sony AVR isn’t providing the volume that you need, I would recommend upgrading your AVR first and see if the new AVR meet your needs if not, then you can add an amplifier to that AVR. I recommend Denon and Marantz over Sony.
Thank you very much! Merry Christmas 🎉 I followed your previous video on Trinnov Dolby Atmos files, saved the files to a stick drive, plug it to my Marantz SR 8012, but it won't play, tried it to my 4k blu ray players, it didn't work. What did I do wrong?
You will need a media player that can play that specific file type. Your AVR isn’t going to have that capability and many Blu-ray players will not either. Something like an older Oppo or the latest Dune, R_volution media players will be able to handle it.
Nice point on the amps.. I have the 1723s upgrading to the 1528s on there spec sheet it says amp up to 700 watts.. Currently I have the monolithic 7 *200 thinking I may have to up grade.. Your thoughts?
What speakers are those? I'm not getting a good answer from google for r7000. Most likely the RZ50 will have enough power for whatever speakers you use.
Something I’ve not found a great answer for…if an AVR is doing both the processing and amplification, why are stand alone processors so much more expensive? They’re doing less? 🤔 Merry Christmas!
It's all about intended market and economies of scale. Very few dedicated processors are sold, and they are always upmarket oriented with prices to match. In my opinion, there is nothing to be gained using a dedicated pre-pro over an AVR with preamp outputs. Audio electronics are transparent. You are paying for features.
I have a question… I have a 7.1.4 and my avr is a denon x6500h…My speakers are all klipsch…My speakers are R-820F, R-52C, R-26F, R-51M, and R-41SA and R-120SW.. Do you think I should buy an external amp?
I’ve owned over 50 Klipsch speakers over the years. An amp won’t make a massive difference but it does provide some improvement. Only you can decide if it is worth it. But if it were me, I think you’re fine
hello, just wanna say many types/kinds of 'amplifier'.. why don't you mention directly what type of amplifier? is it power amp or integrated amp or etc.? i think listener would confuse what kind of 'amplifier' to buy
@@Youthman yes you can connect integrated and a receiver.. even two integrated amplifier can connect each other, just look out the pre-out each one of them can be serve as an pre-amplifier..
Can someone please answer a dumb question? Home audio in price per watt vs car audio seems insanely expensive. Why can't I just use a high amp alternator and an electric motor to power car audio stuff at home. Put it under plexiglass with some lighting like the computer nerds do. Get a 10,000 watt sub and amp for like $4k. Instead of some weak home amp with 4 channels at 350 watts for like $8k. Makes sense to me. Will the electric motor spinning the alternator create feedback or something?
I don't know what home amp you are talking about, but many home theater enthusiasts use pro audio pa amplifiers which offer much higher power for the money compared to audiophile home theater amps. A brand new Behringer NX4-6000 is a 4 channel amp for $409 that produces over 600w into 4 ohms per channel or can be bridged for about 2000w into 4 ohms x 2.
Yeah, that’s pretty funny. That was certainly not intentional. I had just skipped over that part when I was looking at the waveform thinking that wasn’t anything to be edited in that section lesson learned. 🤣
Hi thanks for the video....I am looking to add...to my sony avr....this may be over kill but the bang for the buck 2 osd hta 4200 bridgeable the front 3....1 hta7200 for all other channels.....yes I would have one channl extra....anthem is a bit more money....Thanks foe all your input...Paul....cables rca to xlr recommendation would help
Someone should measure the load on an AVR with and without crossover. Sensitivity matters but I heard that some companies are not entirely honest about those numbers and 5 db is almost 4x more power.😂 Crossovers matter. They matter in terms of power but they matter much more in terms of sound and you want as low as your speakers allow you. I wonder if number of speakers matter especially height channels. Maybe they cause more distortion as powering more speakers may complicate things for the transformer, not just in load but power isolation and cross channel. They matter in terms of power but they matter much more in terms of sound and you want as low as your speakers allow you. But someone should measure the load. We always talk about it but we really have no idea if the AVRs are maxing out. I bi-amped my LR on a Marantz full range for 15 years and that thing never complained once and they are B&W towers which have the impedance drop to 3.2 at 100hz? Now I have a sub and an amp so the AVR is sleeping. I’m more concerned about my power outlet being limited to 1800 watts. Europeans get much more power
I guess that is true. Once I added an amplifier, I’ve always had various amplifiers since then. I do not agree with the processor being 1000 times better than an AVR. That would be a massive stretch. The Marantz SR 8012 and the SR 8015 were absolute beast AVR and I would not hesitate at all to recommend them for the current cinema 30.
@@Youthman I've heard the SR 8012 and it is Good. They also had a Tonewinner their and did a comparo. And to my ears the TW was hands down better. But i also say this though. To me it's really about tuning. I guess by my own speakers i hav horns in all my speakers. Which I like better than tweeters i'm used to that type of sound. That the processor came out on top by at least a couple points.
Hey everybody, i live within 50 miles from Sacramento here in California. I am looking to add an amp, to power my Polk R-7000's in my 7-1-4, system. Anyone in my area have one for sale
Your LCR are the three most important speakers for movie listening and LR for music so this is where I would invest in the best amplification. I went with a three channel 700W per channel amplifier. I went with an eight channel 250W per channel amplifier for my surrounds and overheads. They both run cool and give more than enough power for my speakers.
@@Youthman For my LCR I am running the Hypex NCx500 3-Channel 700W. For my bed layer speakers I am running the Hypex NC252MP 8-Channel 250W. Prior to this I was using an Integra 9-channel amp. Immediately, I noticed more power from the Hypex and Dirac Live sure took notice too. I have the NCx500 on Medium setting. If I bump that to the high setting, which is okay with my Marantz AV10, I can only imagine how loud the speakers would be, but who wants to listen to anything more than a few seconds at 100+db? Not me. LOL! I enjoy content about the same level you do. Typically, at -15 to -10 which puts me at 75db+ and peaks up to 90db. If I want to show off to friends or annoy my neighbors I'll run at reference level for fun.
Using an AVR just for the preout kind of throws away half the money. If you want to separate the processing from the amplification simply get a dedicated processor that does not have amplification.
Most people cannot go immediately into separate. So having pre-out is the pathway to going to separate not the end result. For most people, we start off with an AVR, eventually add an amplifier, and then sometime down the road upgrade to a processor.
AVRs are cheaper than a dedicated pre-pro and so you are essentially getting the amps for free. There is no advantage to using a dedicated processor unless it offers some features not available in the AVR.
I bought a Denon A1H.. I still added a Marantz 8077 amp to it. Poor Man's version of a Marantz AV 10 and Marantz Amp 10. Configure it with Audyssey.. running 7.6.3..All Martin Logans. Love it!
Do I need a DAC to make movies sound better if playing through a computer with output going through an ASUS Dual GeForce RTX™ 4060 Ti OC Edition 8GB GDDR6 (PCIe 4.0, 8GB GDDR6, DLSS 3, HDMI 2.1, DisplayPort 1.4a, video card on HDMI 2.1. To my demon avr x8700ha receiver and a xpa-dr2 differential reference power amplifier. I have the receiver setup to 13 channel. With 2 15in subs. All Klipsch reference speakers. Thank you
Would i get any benefits from adding a amplifier to my marantz cinema 30 avr , for speakers i have a 7.1.4 setup svs ultra bookshelf and ultra surrounds, plus svs elevation but do you think the Marantz Cinema 30 is fine by itself , thank you
The cinema 30 is 140 W with two channels driven. Morant has a 70% guarantee with five channels driven which would be 98 watts x 5. Since you’re adding six more speakers, if I had to guess you’re probably feeding them about 40 W per speaker. Ultra bookshelf are 87dB sensitivity. 1 watt is 87dB 2 watts is 90dB 4 watts is 93dB 8 watts is 96dB 16 watts is 99 dB 32 watts is 102dB Reference volume is 85 dB with peaks of 105 dB. So as you can see, you don’t have any headroom. This would be the equivalent of an amplifier running out of gas. This also doesn’t take the considering how far you sit from your speakers. For every doubling of distance you lose 6 dB in volume.
I think you are fine, that’s a very high end receiver. I have a denon 3700, I added an amp and didn’t note a difference with Klipsch speakers, but with Sonus Faber (Olympica Nova III) speakers I did. They are 4 ohms so harder to drive and less sensitive than klipsch (RF7 III). So it depends how sensitive your speakers are.
@Youthman thank you for the very detailed answer i was thinking I needed a amplifier it deos have decent dynamics but I was looking for just a bit more and my room is small I sit about 9 feet away from my speakers, thank you again
@Youthman 40wpc? What home theater content is sending out 100 percent volume levels to all channels at the same time that would limit the receiver to 40wpc as your suggesting? Perhaps if someone is playing sinewaves in all channel stereo mode but not with real world content. Your calculations are way off lol.
Oh yea very informative channel.. Current set up All Blue Jean Cables Denon 3700.. Monolith 7 * 200.. Emotiva basx4 for atmos.... 7.2.4 Arendel 1723s LFC.. Arendal 1723s surrounds.. Arendal 1961s heights.. 2 Arendal 1961s Subwoofer.. Equals 😁😁😁
I enjoyed your content. I never heard any one cover these specs. I have KEF Q 750 these have a Max output of 110 db, Max, Amplifier Requirements 15-150W. Now I do power these with a Emotiva Basx 3. I believe I am powering these speaker correctly or should I be using more power to bring out speakers' capability. to life.
The BasX is rated for 140 W per speaker into 8 ohms so you should be good. You might hear some subtle differences if you were to add a more powerful amplifier, but it certainly will not be night and day difference.
I own the Onkyo rz50 and then I have a second amplifier two channel for my back surrounds Polk audio monitor xt70 I'm using the Onkyo M-5010 seperate pre-out amplifier! I also have them in the front but they're attached to my rz50 for power the rest of my speakers attached to the rz50 center which is Polk audio monitor XT 35 speaker Polk audio monitor XT 90 Atmos speakers height 1 and then my second high channels are little quantity 4 Sony little 3 inch drivers 100 Watts RMS 4ohm plus the same Sony for my surround middle on the receiver I would like to get a powered amplifier that can run my Polk audio monitor tx-70 I have four of them! And then have my Onkyo rz50 run the center tx35 Polk audio monitor ,height 1, height 2 and surround middle on the receiver only in the future On a budget but something that could power at least five channels? Any suggestions to look at 👍
My Receiver never "ran out of gas" its an older Pioneer Elite and it shakes my home ... my wife even says turn it down... lol .. external amps is for say your Receiver does not have all the power channels for all your speakers but you have pre-outs then get an amp to power them... why spend say $3000 on a Receiver then buy amps... defeats the purpose .... there is plenty of power so you can enjoy your movie ... external amp are for the guy who wants the next level of " what can i buy now" its the show factor in the rack of 3 amps that looks good...
Yes and no. There are many factors… Can your speakers handle the power, what is their ohm rating, sensitivity, etc. Then pairing with the right amp vs powering off an AVR starts to really matter in order to obtain all the qualities of your purchases. That’s a very brief explanation of why external amps can, and do, start to matter.
@@boigoe What works for you may not for someone else. Our personal experiences don’t define rules. Not trying to argue, but the denon you mentioned is 8 ohm stable at 140 watts (only two channels driven rated). It’s common that speakers will dip ohms. The AVR should handle it fine - unlikely it will shutdown into protection mode. It really depends on pairings. What speakers and what volume level you listen at. There are people out there who listen at really, really loud levels. That’s just output though…there is power to move woofer s more efficiently reducing distortion artifacting which comes across in “perceived” clarity. I believe the science, not sure how much I believe real world. Just me being honest. But enabling something to perform at its best…not just good. Is a personal choice. Therefore, yes, I’ll chase the rabbit, many do. And guess what - either way it’s not right or wrong if we are having fun. A little bit of grey area is fine. Happy Holidays!
There’s a difference between “cheap“ and affordable. Plus, you can always find some killer Youthman deals on the used market to make it much more affordable
Think about hobbies in general. They simply take money. Even build it yourself types takes money for the materials, machines, etc. It’s just a part of the process. Now each hobby has its tiers and categories and where people choose to play in those sub spaces is both personal preference and financial means ultimately. Plus, most hobbies are not over night decisions. Many hobbies take years, if not decades to learn, optimize, and/or obtain the assets of said hobby.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Merry Christmas
Love you're explanation on speaker sensitivity, I've never understood it, till now. I have a 7.3.4 system with def teck 9080 towers and center, def teck pro 1000 sides and rears. With klips over head. With the anthem 1140 driving it all, For the first 2 years. Then i added a anthem 3 channel amp for the front stage. And wow did the system come alive! I read somewhere someone described it like someone lifted a vale off of the speakers. Wich is exactly right. To me it made a huge difference. I love this addiction of ours.
Testing
Hi I replied but I can't see my reply. Let me know if you cannot see it. I was explaining how your system is a very unique combination because the LCR have built-in subs so they need less power. Your AVR is also a 2 power supply AVR with a built-in amp in it. I'll re-explain if you don't see it.
@techsamurai11 yes the subs in the def teck towers are powered, meaning they are plugged in the wall. but the anthem 1140 has enough power to handle all 11 speakers and two subs, the 3rd is split from one of the subs in the towers. It's behind the couch to give the couch some rumble. As I understand it, the more speakers you add the less power for each speaker. So the towers are 300 watt speakers so I'm only guessing but each tower were getting about 60 watts.(not for the subs, but the tweeters and mid, front and back, bi-poler) So like youthman was explaining I was missing out on the dynamic range of the towers. So when I amped just the lcr they came alive! Not only that but adding the amp for the fronts frees up that power for the rest of the system.
@@domeniccatalano-zs6xd
The 1140 has 2 transformers - a class A/B toroidal that powers 5 channels including the LCR and the main surrounds.
The 2nd amp is Class D and powers 6 channels. That's for the height channels and rear surrounds and it's more power than they need.
I'm not sure what you mean by subs. Are you connecting the LFE channels (subwoofer) on the amp to the L and R speakers or to a dedicated sub like a SVS or Rythmik or whatever brand?
Your speakers are rated at 300 watts but that doesn't mean you need 300 watts.
If you were watching a movie at 80db with your 1140 and the new amp, they should have sounded identical unless the 1140 has an issue with 4 ohm impedance speakers. I do know it's a bit tricky with 4 ohms - I think Gene from Audioholics recommended keeping the 8 ohm setting on an AVR.
As for load, I do wonder how much sound the LCR play in a movie not just in sounds but volume. The usual numbers that folks reference are 60-70% of dialogue for the center but that doesn't take into account volume. We may be looking of 90% of the volume load on the LCR. Which does beg the question of why on earth we have 8 surrounds for 1.25 % of sound each🙂
@techsamurai11 you sound like you know more about this stuff than me, but I'll try to explain what subs I'm talking about. The definitive technology 9080 towers have a built in powered 12" sub. From there I'm not sure how to explain different than I did previously but yes the external amp is only for the lcr , and it made a huge difference, it opened up the sound. It made a huge difference. I thought I understand why but mabie I don't. I just know how much better it sounds. I hope I've made it clear. But anyway I hope you and your family have a great holiday.
My buddy has paradigm monitor 9 v6. He had it powered by a Sony reciever, sounded bad at loud volumes. Then he got a pre amp, amp combo, sounded way better. Then he got a bryston 3b, sounded even better! Then i got a 2nd bryston, we bridged the amps into 400w mono blocks, and again, the sound was even better! More power = better sound. Bryston amps were built in the 80s. Mine gets really hot, so it needs new output transistors.
Excellent presentation. Nothing was left out, there is nothing else to add.
I've got a 5-channel 200 wpc amp, for all the reasons you mentioned. Well worth it, it was a great addition to my 11 channel AVR.
Thank you kindly. I’m sure there are others much smarter than me that could share other benefits.
Nice. This showed up in my suggestions. I watched it. Did I learn anything? No. However, for those who are starting out in the journey of better sound. Watch and learn. It is a simple explanation easy to understand
For the side of learning, this is a good foundation video. The next should cover the decoding sound. (Sound feild). How to achieve the best sound based on a good core setup. Follow that up with a sealed vs. ported speaker design.
Remember the core rules. Your system is only as good as your hearing. Everyone has different preferences for what sounds good.
Very informative thank you Michael.
Running my RZ-50 thru the OSD Nero, with Dirac. Perfection with the Elac Carina setup. 👌
Thanks for a good product and good info.
Love these informative videos!
Thank you kindly. More to come
When i first set up my home theatre in 2005 in a 1,600 sq basement with bookshelf's as my fronts ! The receiver kept going in protect mode and shutting down. I've progressed to Polk RTI A9 Floor standing Emotiva XPA-5 200 wpc and crown 2 channel 300 watt for the Polks Nice clean power. I only drive 4 height speakers with a Denon 3800. I'd never waste money buying a 160 wpc receiver. Always external amps for bed layers. Auro 3D is the way to go for music and movies even 20 year old Bluray's. No weak Atmos track needed.
When I added my amplifier, I heard sounds in music that I had been listening to my whole life that I had never heard before.
It's called placebo effect. Amplifiers only amplify. They do not add sound that was not there.
@gregworrel2623 maybe it was amplifying sound I could not hear on certain tracks
@@edwardsanchez3708 If you mean it made everything louder, then that could be it. But that difference would only occur at the limits of what your previous amp could produce. Double the power produces 3dB more output, which is not a lot. Unless you were able to compare with instant switching between the two options, then any perceived difference is unreliable.
It’s not the best/highest end amp but I added an emotiva xpa 3 gen 3 for my front sound stage. 275 watts each is really nice, my avr drives my surrounds. Well worth the upgrade. I did also use REW to make the 3 subs play nice with the mains. Def worth the time & effort. It drives my prime pinnacle mains and ultra center much better than my avr. It’s really noticeable when I run the mains in full range as there not very sensitive speakers & res it gets loud! - merry Christmas to everyone
I’ve got the same amp running my mains and it’s awesome. Never run out of power.
One thing to notice when it comes to sensitivity specs is that some brands cheat a little.
1 watt 1 meter is the norm but 2.83 volts is also used. You need 2.83 volts for 1 watt at 8 ohms and thats all good but some use 2.83 volt on lower ohm speakers also, but at 4 ohm thats more than 1 watt.
A 4 ohm speaker only needs 2 volts for 1 watt so using 2.83 Volt there is boosting the sensitivity by roughly 3 db on paper making the speaker look more sensitive than it is.
The example in your video says 88db at 2.83 Volt but has a nominal impedance of 6 Ohm and that is 86.7 db at 1w. 1m. 😅
Wowwww. A big applause to you for such a detailed explanation for a layman like me. I’ve always wondered if I was ever going to understand all these ‘stereo things’. Wowwwww. No need to say; I subscribed immediately!!!! God bless you!!!
Excellent video that explains in detail about the value of external amplification. If you know the basis of the value of external amplifiers, the next step is upgrading to a quality processor.
So Clear Explanation.
Thanks 😊
Great video and Happy Holidays Youthman
Thanks Michael for this amazing and helpful video
Great question. Great video!
2:20
If you contact Marantz they recommend using the external amp for bed layer speakers. Ask on a home cinema forum and they say Atmos or height speakers. I've tried both ways and confirm the Marantz way sounds better.
@@mickblast5794 Bed Layer? I have the Marantz cinema 70 s, I have a Emotiva basx3 hooked up to my LCR, are these bed Layer?
Yes, your bed layer are the speakers that are on the ground plane. Hide speakers would be either placed on your wall or on your ceiling or in your ceiling.
The bed layer would be the 5.1, 7.1, 9.1.
@ Thank you Merry Christmas 🎄
Merry Christmas
@@Youthman Safe to say lowest sensitivity should use the emotiva on ? My L\R are Klipsch 800f, I’m on my 4th center channel as I just got the Polk Es50 and it seems to be the best so far in terms of clear dialogue, the Svs prime seemed muddled, don’t know if it’s my crossover settings LFE settings, but it’s sounds OK as far as the center
I have a system similar to yours. I stopped using AVR power years ago due to the reasons you so clearly explain. I use a Surround Sound Processor (XLR) to distribute channel information to 4 different amps. I have a 3 channel, 4500 Watt (1500WPC) to drive my full range LCR's (JTR 215RT's) 3 additional pro-audio amps to drive the other 7 speakers (surrounds, surround backs and 4 height speakers). This give me a total of 12,000 watts of Class D available but I seldom use even half that amount of power. I describe all that available power as headroom.
This overpowered system simply means that I can listen to all types of movies and concert videos at appropriate levels. Like you I'm -10-15 db most of the time but for my occasional blow out the cobwebs sessions I can get up to and well beyond reference. For example, last night our Xmas movie choice was Top Gun Maverick. I played it at -10db out of consideration to some of the more big sound averse folks but my preference would have been closer to reference to simulate that big movie, big sound, and immersive image that clearly separates HT systems.
My goal for my Home Theater was to have an Dolby Atmos Theater experience at home. My audio has me there or better with the current setup but the video (4K Sony laser PJ, 136" AT screen) falling a little short. Jeff P delivered and setup my LCR's and was my guide to over the top audio (you know Jeff and know what I mean). After many years and many thousands of dollars spent chasing the ideal system, I have landed in the sweet spot for me and I'm content. With you getting into the business, I'm sure your system will continue to evolve to new levels of amazing and I'd love to see and hear your setup sometime. 😀
Edit; BTW, if you're ever planning a trip to Northern California we could meet up. I need a PJ calibration and if you have the ability to do a pro calibration of my Sony I'd be interested.
You sounded a whole lot better in a sponsored video compared to you being in a different room. It could be the lack of acoustic room treatment that seems to amplify the low end of your voice or it could be the Rode PodMic. Oh, and I heard the sound of Windows 11 around 5:45.
The only difference is I’m using a RODE Podcaster microphone in my office and a RODE Wireless Pro with Lavalier in my other videos. A podcast microphone amplifies the lower registry of my voice and has a specific sound signature to it.
Happy Hanucka 🎉 Michael and the crew from Obsessed.
Michael is preaching truth, before you room correct, DSP, bass traps try a external amplifier. Your audiophile hometheater journey will really begin from that point onward.
I just recently acquired a Cinema 50 from Marantz. It is rated at 110WPC. I am using it for my living room with Klipsch Speakers. I am already toying of getting an external amp. I have them in my dedicated HT room. Yes, you can hear a difference. You get more quality Moree punch. As Youthman states the internal amp will not handle the peaks and lows of the sound coming in. Imagine drinking a thick milkshake with a thin straw. Everyone know how's difficult it is and then when you switch to a bigger straw it is easier. For the car guys as well, it's like having a restrictive exhaust and intake, but when you open them up you. get more gains.
Now to debate which amp to get, Marantz 8807 of the OSD??????
Get CNAMPX 16*60 or 7*200 for couple of hundred dollars.. under the hood it is ATI Morris Krislerz
With most Klipsch speakers, power is not the limiting factor. With a speaker with 92dB sensitivity, 110w is enough to produce peaks of 105dB, which is full reference volume. If you don't listen at reference, then the power demand can be far less.
So i have just found this hobby!!! And have always prfered to go to live shows and sit in the stands even with the stage for great reference. Have always found that listening to music at home would have the instruments cluttered and very taxing. Now i have found this community to have an experience i would love and enjoy at home! Yall are kiding me!!!! So i have brought out my old Kenwood VR615 and tower speakers but still not enjoyable! I hope one day i can get to where you all are.
Enjoyed the content and you really helped me understand alot. I still have alot of questions and maybe you could start a series for beginners like me to better understand, make the right choices, and have a great path for up grades down the road.... Cause to be honest it is very confusing just starting and most talk over the beginners heads.
Welcome! You’re correct there’s a lot to learn but the great thing is I have over 1000 videos that can help out and we put together some home theater basics videos that you can see here - obsessedhometheater.com/pages/video-guides
What are some solutions for issues with dialing in dialogue in movies and tv shows? Also explain why this happens? Sometimes you’ll be listening and can’t hear what’s being said because either the rest of audio is drowning out the dialogue weather it be the music track or loud explosions. So you’ll be forced to either turn on subtitles or turn up volume to try to hear what was said but then it will be at overall at a uncomfortable volume
Compare your streaming service to physical media. Does it happen with physical media too? If so, you either need acoustic treatment or a better center channel.
Here are some tips to improve your center channel clarity - th-cam.com/video/24c7PkOG1vE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Pp_eAaVE_hOVTm3-
One key factor is AVR's when they advertise wattage, its almost always shared across all channels. 150W is not per channel but shared across all channels. An external amp provides dedicated wattage for each channel.
Correct one thing Denon and Marantz have done over the years is they now guarantee 70% with five channels driven
AVRs have a dedicated amp for each channel. I don't know where you get the idea that power is shared across all channels. There is a common power supply, but when playing surround sound content, the power supply is not a limiting factor.
Thanks. This is excellent information on decibels. 👍 The higher the speaker decibel rating, the better. The best explanation that I've seen.
Thank you kindly
I’ve been waiting patiently for Marantz to have a replacement for their 7706/ 8805. A mini AV10 plz then 100% I’d get a buckeye to match!
But if NAD releases their new flagship AVR 1st I’ll likely go that route.. it’d be flagship level & class D, I have efficient speakers and don’t listen to near reference levels so.. I think it’d be the best case for an AVR situation.
I really hope NAD works on their setup menu. It’s really bad how the UI navigates to change speaker setup etc.
@ yes, hopefully they kink out their issues before releasing such an AVR. I just want to make sure I’m set with the next AVR I get since mine is nearly 10 years old now
I think I want to add an amplifier to my 5.1.4 Focal Sib Evo setup. I got the 2x atmos bookshelfs, and 2x non-atmos using one a center channel; SVS sub...but of course that has it's own amp. They're all relatively small speakers, and all 9 channels are roughly rated at 6ohms and 90db sensitivity. When I take my voltmeter to the speakers (unpowered) they all actually read ~2.4 ohms. I'm using a Sony STR-AZ5000ES reciever which seems to be handling business pretty well. The receiver only has 4ohm or 8ohm settings which I have set to 4ohms since that's closer to what I've measured and the crossover is 80hz (speakers are rated down to 65hz).
I'm not sure if it makes more sense for me to get a 3 channel amplifier for the LRC, or a 5 channel amplifier for LRC+SRSL and only leave the 4 atmos channels to the receiver. Any suggestions?
You should never set your AVR to the 4 ohms setting, no matter what impedance your speakers are. Leave it at 8 ohms. Audioholics has an extensive write-up on this. You are only limiting your power output by changing the AVR to 4 ohms with no benefit.
The resistance as measured by a multimeter is not the same as the speaker impedance and will always be lower. The impedance of a speaker varies by frequency, which a multimeter cannot indicate.
I would not worry about an external amp for those speakers. The speaker output is going to be limited by distortion because of the inherent limitations of the speakers, no matter how much power you put into them. If your Sony sounds good, I would leave it as is.
@@gregworrel2623 I'll search for it as well, but could you link me, or give me a more specific title for the Audioholic's writeup?
Good explanation. Good point about amps remaining the same, and the processing changing. I want a rack with probably 24 high quality xlr preamp level outs, with a user interface that can be updated with the latest and greatest. All external amps. In my dreams.
I am between anthem mca325 and 525.does the extra cost of the 525 worth just to drive the two back surrounds or the 325 is all what I need for the LRC stage?
What AVR do you have? The extra channels in the amplifier depends on alternatives. Taking the load off your AVR from your front stage means more power for the rest. What speakers are you driving and what AVR?
My avr is Denon 3800 and the speakers are focal chora lcr and surround back with 4 height channels svs ultra elevation.LRC will be replaced from the paradigm founder series 100f and 90c as Center.
@@akisdiakatos8377 I’d say go with the 5ch amp to power the chora bed-layer speakers. The AVR can push those heights no problem, and the 3800 is a great pre-amp option for those who want to add a power amp for more demanding speakers. I think it’ll sound great!
@HiFinest343 thank you very much for your advices.i wish you a happy new year.
At the end of your video starting at 20:12 all your mistakes and restarts have been left in/missed by your editor. Also just a suggestion that you look at the camera instead of looking just passed it. Right now it feels like I’m watching a blind person w no connection. Just my opinion. Otherwise great video 👍🏾
Thanks. I have to fire my editor. Oh wait …that’s me. 🤣
I’m actually looking directly at my camera. My right eye is a lazy eye and looks off to the side.
not a big deal but your head and body is not straight on with the camera, so it's not your lazy eye (I have one too) its the positioning off-angle (to our left, your right), even your nose, shoulders, chest are slightly tilted and neither eye is dead on, nor your face.
fyi they use that off angle positioning when interviewing someone, so it looks like you are speaking to the reporter off camera instead of speaking directly to the audience.
I’ve noticed similar when filming in my theater room. My camera is dead center of my seat. I’m looking at the camera. Or at least my brain thinks I am. The only thing I can think of is my vision is telling me I’m looking at the camera when I’m not. Who knows.
@@Youthman Thank you for not taking offense and responding. Great videos 👍🏾
Good morning. Could you answer my question? I connected the amplifier to the Denon AVR-X4800h receiver, on the front trio of speakers. Can I leave the amplifier's volume knob at maximum and then calibrate it in Audyssey? Will I have clipping problems or any other problem? Or should I reduce the volume? The amplifier was a Fosi ZA3 that has a volume knob. I'm from Brazil, I love your videos, congratulations and thank you for always helping us!
Thank you for the kind words. It does not matter what your volume is set to when you begin calibration with Audyssey.
The guy with the question above didn't mean the volume on his avr, he ment to say the gain control knob on his dedicated power amplifier. He was wondering during the speaker calibration if it would be fine to have the gain on his amp set to max, or should he turn it down and if so then by how much. Myself I have 2 dedicated amps, one is a 2-channel crown, second and newest I have the tone winner AD-7300 2.0 7-channel. With the tone winner being a home theater amp, there is no gain control to speak of which makes things very simple. The crown however being a pro amp, it has not 1 but 2 gain control knobs, one for each channel, so I leave that set to one notch past the 3/4 mark.
My apologies I misunderstood what he was asking. Many years ago, I borrowed a QSC amplifier and it was recommended to me to leave the game all the way up on the amplifier. But truthfully, I’m not very familiar with using pro amps in a home theater system.
@@randysalsman6992Exactly this question. I'm afraid of damaging the amplifier in some way, clipping or entering protection mode, but I also don't want to waste the amplifier's power. I've been told not to use the full volume, but I'm not completely convinced and would like other opinions. Thanks for your help.
@@RodrigoTMA The gain on a pro amp is an input attenuator. You cannot harm the amp by leaving it all the way up. One possible reason to turn it down is if you hear hiss coming from the speakers. A lower gain setting can sometimes help with noise. If you change the gain setting, you should recalibrate your AVR. Too low a setting could result in not getting full power level out of the amp.
If the 2 front speakers are connected to an external amp is it possible to use the existing front speaker terminals from my Denon receiver for 2 extra speakers? Thanks!
Unless it's that damn Storm ISR Fusion 20. That thing sounds like separates all in one.
How do you get the meter display on my Marantz Cinema 50 as shown on the thumbnail??? thx.
Select the Blu-ray input
Hi, are you talking about like having a separates -individual audio components like a preamplifier and power amplifier, or we can add amplifier to existing avr Audio/Video Receiver
This video was mainly referring to when should you consider adding an amplifier to an AVR but certainly applies to separates as well. That is just the next level.
I love to have headroom. So maybe that is why i am feeding my 4ohms speakers with 775watts each from my crown 2502 amps. My bedlayer has each lots of power and i wouldnt have it any other way. I got 775W for each channel in my system. And my marantz Cinema 40 does better with added power amps and my front stage, well. My hole setup comes so much more alive when being fed with lots of power.
Very detailed video Michael. Very useful for the ones who dont really understand the hole idea surrounding sensetivity and ohms. Some speakers dont like to be underpowered.
Have merry x-mas and all the best for 2025.
Thank you for the kind words. That’s a heck of a set up. You have there. Congrats merry Christmas and happy new year as well.
@@Youthman Well, i took advise from all you guys on YT. Thats why my system is the way it is. Words are well deserved my man. I hope you are doing good and the family too. Stay strong in life and in faith brother.
Been thinking about getting a power amp. I have a denon x3800h and im curious how a power amp can improve my system. Do you think a 2 channel power amp will make a big difference?
I have the same receiver but still use an Outlaw 5000 amplifier to power my front left, center and right channels. Those three speakers are each now getting around 150 watts and it really makes them come alive.
@@danm203 150 each?
@@trauma50disaster1 Yes.
Im using a denon s760h avr and polk xt monitor speakers in 5.2. As you said on sensitivity, my speakers are at 86. What is your recommendation for ext amp? Im new to this arena and was wondering if it would be beneficial and how big of an amp i should use. Thank you for another great video.
Your Denon AVR does not have preamp outputs so there is no practical way to connect an external amplifier. That said, those speakers are fine with the power you have from the s760H. No reason to use an external amplifier. Power handling of the speakers is 150w and it is likely the speakers will hit their limits before you exceed the capability of the Denon you have. You don't say what subs you have, but most inexpensive systems are woefully lacking in sub output and that should be your first concern before worrying about power. Nothing wrong with those speakers, but if you want more dynamics and more output, then I would look at upgrading the speakers as well before worrying about power.
@@gregworrel2623 Thank you for the info. I have two polk xt 12s. The system sounds great but as I said, I'm new to this and watching a ton of videos to get it tweaked.
Looking to add an anthem 325 to my rf7iii/rc64iii front stage. My question is, being as I sit 12 feet away would I be able to tell a difference? My current avr is a yamaha a4a rated @ 110watts x 2 channel. My listening ranges from -20dbs through -12dbs off the front of the avr. The speakers sound fantastic all ready, I’m just scared I’m underpowering them severely. Or would money be better spent elsewhere, thanks!
Hey i got heco towers! Its sensitivity is 91db! How many watts power amp do i need! Surrounds are klipsch bookshelves!
This is what I did with my home theater system, as I put in 4 24-inch subwoofers, and they are connected to two professional amplifiers, and so I have a powerful system not only for watching movies but for listening to music as well,
ohh merry chrostmas brothah 🥳🎄🎄
So how about buying preamps instead of buying all in one AVRs and pair it with a power amplifier ?
Please suggest.
Thanks
You could certainly go with separates. I have owned both the Marantz AV7706 and Anthem AVM70. Both are excellent
So, having an anthem mrx1140 with (2) klipsch rf7iii and (1) rc64iii but considering adding a summit hifi a11 for external wouldn't make much sense?
When I added the Parasound 220x5 to my Klipsch RF83, RC64 and RS62, it was an improvement, but certainly not night and day difference.
@Youthman awesome, I thank you for even responding. Most don't.
I value my community and will always be active in the comments of each video. Of course I can’t possibly answer every comment, but I do my best to answer as many as I can.
Would there be any advantage of replacing an 11-channel amp (AD-8300PA) with multiple smaller amps? I use an X4700H. I won't be able to do anything for a while as I just bought my first house 3 days ago, but I was just curious. Merry Christmas! :)
Your upgrade thought is dependent on the speakers you use. Installing a 3 channel amp to power the front three (LCR) can be the biggest value of change as long those speakers are big enough to justify the boost in power from a separate amp.
Hi would appreciate some advice. I have an Epson 5040UB for the last 8 years, in my living room it’s been repaired three times been looking at laser projectors in the $3000-$5000 any recommendations? I have a 16 x12 shed considering turning shed into theater room. But right now will watch from living room. Merry Christmas and thank you for your time. I’m in Florida so no basement. Lol
The example you gave, the ultra evolution pinnacle speakers are 4 ohm, even though it says six ohms as many have said including Gene at Audiohalics. So that may change the watts…right?
That's a great question that I did not have an answer to. I asked ChatGPT to help. LOL
I posted to ChatGPT my chart and said, "Let's say the above doubling chart was for 8 ohm speakers. Would anything change if the speakers were 4 ohms?"
Yes, if the speakers were 4 ohms instead of 8 ohms, the chart would reflect the fact that the amplifier delivers more power to the 4-ohm load. This is because power is calculated using the formula:
𝑃=𝑉2/R
Where
P is power (watts),
V is voltage, and
R is resistance (ohms). Lower resistance means higher power for the same voltage output.
For example:
An amplifier rated for 100 watts into 8 ohms would typically deliver approximately 200 watts into 4 ohms (assuming the amplifier is stable at 4 ohms).
The sound level in decibels would increase due to the higher power, resulting in a louder output for 4-ohm speakers at the same volume setting.
However, the relationship between dB and power doubling (+3 dB) remains constant regardless of the impedance. The specific wattage values for each decibel level would shift because of the higher power handling at 4 ohms.
They are rated at 6 ohms but edge on 4 ohms depending on how they are driven. I am powering them and my SVS Ultra Evolution center with 700W per and they sing beautifully. The speakers will take what they need from amps.
My wife will only put up with so many speakers in our living room. I've had a 5 channel Carver Amplifier for 20 years now. 6 years ago I upgraded my AV preamp to a Marantz AV7005 for the HDMI and I have been
1528, What Brand? It's hard to understand because these are all new bands for me. Please write out the Band name too? Thx
I believe you are referring to Arendal 1528
I had to get an external amp for my 2 height channels cause one of height outputs went bad on my AVR for some reason.
Hi Michael… what’s the ideal watts amplifier to drive my surround and atmos speakers …I have a klipsch
I’m not sure if there’s an ideal amount. I have the monolith 11 X which is 300 W to my front three speakers and 100 W to my surrounds and height speakers.
In your case 100 watts in your surround and heights makes you satisfy?
100% I definitely do not feel like I’m missing anything by not having more power for my 110HT-SL that are 95dB - obsessedhometheater.com/products/noesis-speaker-series?variant=43231116656674
Thanks Michael for your prompt reply…merry Christmas to you & your family….
Merry Christmas as well
Not one of those guys but literally logged in as you posted this. "First" LOL Keep up the good work Michael!
Thank you kindly
Because of your review and others I bought the Elac Debut 3.0 DB63, I want to go all Elac speakers. I have an Onkyo RZ50, should I buy an amplifier?
Absolutely. I had a Denon in the RZ50 class and after adding an Outlaw 7000x 4 years ago it invigorated my HT exactly as Michael describes in this video. Separation, detail, dynamics, stage etc.
@ that might be my next piece of av equipment next year
@Mjaybird you've said on the Facebook groups that you listen at a really, really low volume because of living in an apartment. You don't need an amp listening at really low volume. Now if you want one just to want one than that's different.
@ I listen at -35 to -40 in my apartment
@@Mjaybird if you want an amp just to have one by all means buy one. I buy things because sometimes I just want them. At those volumes you're not going to tell a difference at all though. You'd be better off spending that money on more elac speakers first. Then go for the amp. Merry Christmas!
Will you still get all the benefits if you’re only powering some speakers with an amp? For example, I have a 7.2.4 system. If I get a 7 channel amp to just power the bed layer speakers, how much benefit will I get from that? Or should I just wait until I can power all of them?
That absolutely is a great solution. Your AVR will have no problem powering your height speakers.
@@Youthmanthanks, I assumed so, just wanted to check. Eventually I’d like to go to separate processer and amp, but one thing at a time!
Baby steps. Enjoy the journey!
Agree with Youthman ^^^. I run 7 speakers plus a couple of heights, total of nine. My power amp has 5 channels 200 wpc.
I choose to power L/C/R with the external amp for 250 wpc to each since those speakers draw the most power. The AVR internal amps power everything else. Win/Win.
This is what I do for my system. I have the bed layer speakers on one amp and my LRC on another.
Left me wondering why not pair a sound processor instead of an AVR with the amplifier if the AVR is reduced to just sound processing when an amplifier is added as an enhancement. I guess the sound processor will serve the purpose of the AVR in the HT chain
AVR combines sound processing with amplification for speakers that don't need much: atmos, and maybe even surrounds.
@youthman - Did you accidentally upload the unedited version of this video or you trying a new thing with uploading unedited videos
No, I was just looking at the timeline and didn’t see any breaks in the audio so I skipped over that section lol oh well, it just shows I’m human 🤣🤣🤣
LOL ya i thought i was going crazy for a minute, why is he repeating himself? Great video though super informative! I'm gonna get a Amp for my LCR and my Denon 4800H with martin logan speakers. I have always felt the speakers sounded muddy and distorted so going to give this a try see if i notice a difference.
Let me know if it helps. Also check out this video on how to improve the clarity of your center channel - th-cam.com/video/24c7PkOG1vE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=iYsxPdtiKQNo2rSk
Ok amateur dumb question coming up…
If you’re running an avr that puts out 100 watts/channel…and you’re running a front left front right Center and sub…is there any point in putting an external amp on it? If so…should it be more than 100 watts so you get more amplification than the avr was putting out?
I don’t think it’s a dumb question at all. If you’re only running three speakers on your AVR, you’re going to be fine. It’s when you start adding nine or 11 speakers, especially when paired with inefficient speakers that you will benefit the most by adding an external amplifier.
But it also depends on the things that I mention in the video like the sensitivity of your speakers, how loud you listen, how big is your room, and how far do you sit from your speakers.
@ thank you for quick reply. I want to do the Marantz 60, paired with the pwm3 on wall speakers…is that strong enough or should I add an external amp? The room isn’t big at all…in fact I’d say it’s small.
86dB sensitivity means they are quite power hungry speakers. Try it with the AVR. You can always add amp later if it isn’t enough
@ 🙏 thank you so much, hopefully you’re a dealer when I’m ready 👍
Great video youthman, super educational! And I must say, loved that you kept in the end 😂
Great, what did I leave in there? Let me go watch lol
Phew, you had me worried that I left something goofy at the end of the video. Often times I edit the video but I’ve spent so many hours editing that I don’t really want to spend 22 minutes to watch the entire thing again to see if I missed anything lol
@youthman you repeated yourself a couple of times, almost like bloopers/outtakes when referring to the Buckeye amps and working with Dylan.
@@Youthmanno it’s not goofy at all, if anything it’s just an inside look into shooting a video.
Oh gotcha lol whoops. 🤣
Merry Christmas, to you and yours. Thank you, for the video. I'm thinking your answer will be yes, I could use an amplifier. But I'm asking anyway. I have a Sony avr, 7.2, 175 watts PC, 2channels driven, capable specs. Have Klipsch speakers, LCR, 2 rears, 2 atmos, one sub. Unfortunately AVR does NOT have pre-outs. To enjoy full benefits of set-up, should I invest in upgrading AVR and buying an amp? I am mostly happy with current setup, but would like more volume, sometimes? Thank you, for you response, when your able. Enjoy holiday first!! Peace.
Yes, if your Sony AVR isn’t providing the volume that you need, I would recommend upgrading your AVR first and see if the new AVR meet your needs if not, then you can add an amplifier to that AVR. I recommend Denon and Marantz over Sony.
@@Youthman Thanx!
Thank you very much! Merry Christmas 🎉
I followed your previous video on Trinnov Dolby Atmos files, saved the files to a stick drive, plug it to my Marantz SR 8012, but it won't play, tried it to my 4k blu ray players, it didn't work. What did I do wrong?
You will need a media player that can play that specific file type. Your AVR isn’t going to have that capability and many Blu-ray players will not either. Something like an older Oppo or the latest Dune, R_volution media players will be able to handle it.
Nice point on the amps.. I have the 1723s upgrading to the 1528s on there spec sheet it says amp up to 700 watts.. Currently I have the monolithic 7 *200 thinking I may have to up grade.. Your thoughts?
They are definitely power hungry due to their very low sensitivity of 85dB. That’s why they recommend having a powerful amplifier.
Is my new RZ-50 Going to have enough power for a set of R7000's going to run all channels
What speakers are those? I'm not getting a good answer from google for r7000. Most likely the RZ50 will have enough power for whatever speakers you use.
Something I’ve not found a great answer for…if an AVR is doing both the processing and amplification, why are stand alone processors so much more expensive? They’re doing less? 🤔 Merry Christmas!
Great question. Some suggest processors use higher end components. I cannot verify this myself.
It's all about intended market and economies of scale. Very few dedicated processors are sold, and they are always upmarket oriented with prices to match. In my opinion, there is nothing to be gained using a dedicated pre-pro over an AVR with preamp outputs. Audio electronics are transparent. You are paying for features.
EMOTIVA XPA7 gen 3 or AMP 10 which are best kindly reply i am from india i show yr all video ..... and Merry Christmas
My Yamaha 2080 had plenty of power, but I wanted more lights and more boxes, just like the rest of you😮!
I have a question… I have a 7.1.4 and my avr is a denon x6500h…My speakers are all klipsch…My speakers are R-820F, R-52C, R-26F, R-51M, and R-41SA and R-120SW..
Do you think I should buy an external amp?
I’ve owned over 50 Klipsch speakers over the years. An amp won’t make a massive difference but it does provide some improvement. Only you can decide if it is worth it.
But if it were me, I think you’re fine
@ Ok…Thank you for the reply
hello, just wanna say many types/kinds of 'amplifier'.. why don't you mention directly what type of amplifier? is it power amp or integrated amp or etc.? i think listener would confuse what kind of 'amplifier' to buy
How are you going to connect an integrated amplifier to an AVR? I only mentioned an amplifier because that’s all you need.
@@Youthman yes you can connect integrated and a receiver.. even two integrated amplifier can connect each other, just look out the pre-out each one of them can be serve as an pre-amplifier..
Great deep dive.
Happy Holidays / Christmas.
See you in 2025!
Thank you Joseph. Merry Christmas!
Can someone please answer a dumb question? Home audio in price per watt vs car audio seems insanely expensive. Why can't I just use a high amp alternator and an electric motor to power car audio stuff at home. Put it under plexiglass with some lighting like the computer nerds do. Get a 10,000 watt sub and amp for like $4k. Instead of some weak home amp with 4 channels at 350 watts for like $8k. Makes sense to me. Will the electric motor spinning the alternator create feedback or something?
I don't know what home amp you are talking about, but many home theater enthusiasts use pro audio pa amplifiers which offer much higher power for the money compared to audiophile home theater amps. A brand new Behringer NX4-6000 is a 4 channel amp for $409 that produces over 600w into 4 ohms per channel or can be bridged for about 2000w into 4 ohms x 2.
Fyi, You forgot to edit your video near the end. Still a great video!
Yeah, that’s pretty funny. That was certainly not intentional. I had just skipped over that part when I was looking at the waveform thinking that wasn’t anything to be edited in that section lesson learned. 🤣
Hi thanks for the video....I am looking to add...to my sony avr....this may be over kill but the bang for the buck 2 osd hta 4200 bridgeable the front 3....1 hta7200 for all other channels.....yes I would have one channl extra....anthem is a bit more money....Thanks foe all your input...Paul....cables rca to xlr recommendation would help
Someone should measure the load on an AVR with and without crossover.
Sensitivity matters but I heard that some companies are not entirely honest about those numbers and 5 db is almost 4x more power.😂
Crossovers matter. They matter in terms of power but they matter much more in terms of sound and you want as low as your speakers allow you.
I wonder if number of speakers matter especially height channels. Maybe they cause more distortion as powering more speakers may complicate things for the transformer, not just in load but power isolation and cross channel. They matter in terms of power but they matter much more in terms of sound and you want as low as your speakers allow you.
But someone should measure the load. We always talk about it but we really have no idea if the AVRs are maxing out.
I bi-amped my LR on a Marantz full range for 15 years and that thing never complained once and they are B&W towers which have the impedance drop to 3.2 at 100hz? Now I have a sub and an amp so the AVR is sleeping. I’m more concerned about my power outlet being limited to 1800 watts. Europeans get much more power
Yes buy does amp “quality”/price matter or are watts watts 7x200 $5000 amp same performance as 7x200 $15000 amp
Merry christmas Micheal ... get some rest ... you look tired ...
I’m doing great. I get around 8hrs of sleep each night.
@@Youthman no pun intended..Enjoy the Festivities and a well deserved christmas break is what i mean brother .
Some movies are louder than others, so the sound level will vary. Happy Holidays to you and the family Michael.
Once u go Amp, There's No looking Back at AVR!!! Also, dt 4get a Processor is 1000 times better then a AVR as well.. Nothing beats Separates...
I guess that is true. Once I added an amplifier, I’ve always had various amplifiers since then.
I do not agree with the processor being 1000 times better than an AVR. That would be a massive stretch.
The Marantz SR 8012 and the SR 8015 were absolute beast AVR and I would not hesitate at all to recommend them for the current cinema 30.
@@Youthman I've heard the SR 8012 and it is Good. They also had a Tonewinner their and did a comparo. And to my ears the TW was hands down better. But i also say this though. To me it's really about tuning. I guess by my own speakers i hav horns in all my speakers. Which I like better than tweeters i'm used to that type of sound. That the processor came out on top by at least a couple points.
Hey everybody, i live within 50 miles from Sacramento here in California. I am looking to add an amp, to power my Polk R-7000's in my 7-1-4, system. Anyone in my area have one for sale
Coda is built in Sacramento 😊
What about keeping you LCR speakers on your AVR and the rest on the other amp?
I prefer the opposite. I want my best power going to my LCR. So I would recommend a 3ch amp for LCR and let the AVR handle the rest.
Your LCR are the three most important speakers for movie listening and LR for music so this is where I would invest in the best amplification. I went with a three channel 700W per channel amplifier. I went with an eight channel 250W per channel amplifier for my surrounds and overheads. They both run cool and give more than enough power for my speakers.
Nice! What amp are you running for your LCR?
@@Youthman For my LCR I am running the Hypex NCx500 3-Channel 700W. For my bed layer speakers I am running the Hypex NC252MP
8-Channel 250W. Prior to this I was using an Integra 9-channel amp. Immediately, I noticed more power from the Hypex and Dirac Live sure took notice too. I have the NCx500 on Medium setting. If I bump that to the high setting, which is okay with my Marantz AV10, I can only imagine how loud the speakers would be, but who wants to listen to anything more than a few seconds at 100+db? Not me. LOL! I enjoy content about the same level you do. Typically, at -15 to -10 which puts me at 75db+ and peaks up to 90db. If I want to show off to friends or annoy my neighbors I'll run at reference level for fun.
Using an AVR just for the preout kind of throws away half the money. If you want to separate the processing from the amplification simply get a dedicated processor that does not have amplification.
Most people cannot go immediately into separate. So having pre-out is the pathway to going to separate not the end result.
For most people, we start off with an AVR, eventually add an amplifier, and then sometime down the road upgrade to a processor.
@ Makes sense, thanks for the perspective. Sometimes I forget people aren’t made of money.
AVRs are cheaper than a dedicated pre-pro and so you are essentially getting the amps for free. There is no advantage to using a dedicated processor unless it offers some features not available in the AVR.
I bought a Denon A1H..
I still added a Marantz 8077 amp to it.
Poor Man's version of a Marantz AV 10 and Marantz Amp 10.
Configure it with Audyssey.. running 7.6.3..All Martin Logans. Love it!
Do I need a DAC to make movies sound better if playing through a computer with output going through an
ASUS Dual GeForce RTX™ 4060 Ti OC Edition 8GB GDDR6 (PCIe 4.0, 8GB GDDR6, DLSS 3, HDMI 2.1, DisplayPort 1.4a, video card on HDMI 2.1.
To my demon avr x8700ha receiver and a xpa-dr2 differential reference power amplifier.
I have the receiver setup to 13 channel. With 2 15in subs. All Klipsch reference speakers.
Thank you
I recently replaced my dual Klipsch R-12’s with a pair of SVS PB 1000 Pro’s to complete the set of 4!
Congrats on the upgrade!
Would i get any benefits from adding a amplifier to my marantz cinema 30 avr , for speakers i have a 7.1.4 setup svs ultra bookshelf and ultra surrounds, plus svs elevation but do you think the Marantz Cinema 30 is fine by itself , thank you
The cinema 30 is 140 W with two channels driven. Morant has a 70% guarantee with five channels driven which would be 98 watts x 5. Since you’re adding six more speakers, if I had to guess you’re probably feeding them about 40 W per speaker.
Ultra bookshelf are 87dB sensitivity.
1 watt is 87dB
2 watts is 90dB
4 watts is 93dB
8 watts is 96dB
16 watts is 99 dB
32 watts is 102dB
Reference volume is 85 dB with peaks of 105 dB. So as you can see, you don’t have any headroom. This would be the equivalent of an amplifier running out of gas.
This also doesn’t take the considering how far you sit from your speakers. For every doubling of distance you lose 6 dB in volume.
I think you are fine, that’s a very high end receiver. I have a denon 3700, I added an amp and didn’t note a difference with Klipsch speakers, but with Sonus Faber (Olympica Nova III) speakers I did. They are 4 ohms so harder to drive and less sensitive than klipsch (RF7 III). So it depends how sensitive your speakers are.
@Youthman thank you for the very detailed answer i was thinking I needed a amplifier it deos have decent dynamics but I was looking for just a bit more and my room is small I sit about 9 feet away from my speakers, thank you again
@shalashaskax according to audioholics they measured the svs ultra bookshelf speakers at 4 ohms and these are the older models too
@Youthman 40wpc? What home theater content is sending out 100 percent volume levels to all channels at the same time that would limit the receiver to 40wpc as your suggesting? Perhaps if someone is playing sinewaves in all channel stereo mode but not with real world content. Your calculations are way off lol.
Current not wattage 😮
Most people reading your comment will have no idea what you’re trying to say. Care to elaborate?
Oh yea very informative channel.. Current set up All Blue Jean Cables
Denon 3700.. Monolith 7 * 200.. Emotiva basx4 for atmos.... 7.2.4 Arendel 1723s LFC.. Arendal 1723s surrounds.. Arendal 1961s heights.. 2 Arendal 1961s Subwoofer.. Equals 😁😁😁
I enjoyed your content. I never heard any one cover these specs. I have KEF Q 750 these have a Max output of 110 db, Max, Amplifier Requirements
15-150W. Now I do power these with a Emotiva Basx 3. I believe I am powering these speaker correctly or should I be using more power to bring out speakers' capability. to life.
The BasX is rated for 140 W per speaker into 8 ohms so you should be good. You might hear some subtle differences if you were to add a more powerful amplifier, but it certainly will not be night and day difference.
I own the Onkyo rz50 and then I have a second amplifier two channel for my back surrounds Polk audio monitor xt70 I'm using the Onkyo M-5010 seperate pre-out amplifier! I also have them in the front but they're attached to my rz50 for power the rest of my speakers attached to the rz50 center which is Polk audio monitor XT 35 speaker Polk audio monitor XT 90 Atmos speakers height 1 and then my second high channels are little quantity 4 Sony little 3 inch drivers 100 Watts RMS 4ohm plus the same Sony for my surround middle on the receiver
I would like to get a powered amplifier that can run my Polk audio monitor tx-70 I have four of them! And then have my Onkyo rz50 run the center tx35 Polk audio monitor ,height 1, height 2 and surround middle on the receiver only in the future
On a budget but something that could power at least five channels? Any suggestions to look at 👍
My Receiver never "ran out of gas" its an older Pioneer Elite and it shakes my home ... my wife even says turn it down... lol .. external amps is for say your Receiver does not have all the power channels for all your speakers but you have pre-outs then get an amp to power them... why spend say $3000 on a Receiver then buy amps... defeats the purpose .... there is plenty of power so you can enjoy your movie ... external amp are for the guy who wants the next level of " what can i buy now" its the show factor in the rack of 3 amps that looks good...
Yes and no. There are many factors… Can your speakers handle the power, what is their ohm rating, sensitivity, etc. Then pairing with the right amp vs powering off an AVR starts to really matter in order to obtain all the qualities of your purchases. That’s a very brief explanation of why external amps can, and do, start to matter.
Got a denon avr6700 and it's powering 7.1.4 and never hav hesitated...no need to spend 3k plus on an external amp
Well said 👏
@@boigoe What works for you may not for someone else. Our personal experiences don’t define rules. Not trying to argue, but the denon you mentioned is 8 ohm stable at 140 watts (only two channels driven rated). It’s common that speakers will dip ohms. The AVR should handle it fine - unlikely it will shutdown into protection mode. It really depends on pairings. What speakers and what volume level you listen at. There are people out there who listen at really, really loud levels. That’s just output though…there is power to move woofer s more efficiently reducing distortion artifacting which comes across in “perceived” clarity. I believe the science, not sure how much I believe real world. Just me being honest. But enabling something to perform at its best…not just good. Is a personal choice. Therefore, yes, I’ll chase the rabbit, many do. And guess what - either way it’s not right or wrong if we are having fun. A little bit of grey area is fine. Happy Holidays!
@@paulupton7698 thank u
The Directors Cut. Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas Rod
I have the OSD 5200 amp on my wish list to replace my Emotiva 5 channel amp.
How is this hobby affordable?
Regardless of your hobby (motorcycles, cars, fishing, golfing, etc), if you are serious about it, it’s expensive.
There are affordable speaker brands (ie. Elac), amplifier brands (ie. OSD Audio), affordable DIY options etc.
Yea, if you want quality, it's not affordable!
There’s a difference between “cheap“ and affordable. Plus, you can always find some killer Youthman deals on the used market to make it much more affordable
Think about hobbies in general. They simply take money. Even build it yourself types takes money for the materials, machines, etc. It’s just a part of the process. Now each hobby has its tiers and categories and where people choose to play in those sub spaces is both personal preference and financial means ultimately. Plus, most hobbies are not over night decisions. Many hobbies take years, if not decades to learn, optimize, and/or obtain the assets of said hobby.