The UA 8 Monk is... actually really really good
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- #dnd #dungeonsanddragons #onednd
The new Unearthed Arcana 8 Monk has received a major overhaul from the previous rendition and it's is looking really good.
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My first thought after seeing this new Monk was that this should've been our start point instead of taking like 3 attempts to get here.
The monk has been a very poor class in many editions. So the track record is not the best. We can't even blame WOTC for all of the bad monk versions. XD
which is why onednd has me so concerned ... Seems like these are written by the lowest bidder like in Gamesworkshop
Honestly game design and especially for ttrpgs is one of those things that is much harder than it feels as a player. We're much more forgiving for a lot of wotc design than the (still high quality and worth the purchase) 3rd party design.
I still think it's way better
2014's Monk was terrible, but... it took 7 years for the community to see that - and I think if it weren't for treantmonk influence most people would still be saying 'monks are overpowered". The flaws in the design weren't obvious for players for a long time and so the playtests weren't efficient. People took problem with rangers and sorcerers way before they'd considered monks had a problem.
I think WotC is making a stellar job at conducting the playtests and interpreting feedback. The last version was terrible, but it was a first draft and the way they've responded is better than any attempt of fixing the monk available.
@@Jay-pj5tg I hardly disagree with the sentiment that people are more forgiving of WotC than of 3rd party design. Darrington Press is not a small company by any means, and a solid 75% of the mechanics they publish is either broken or useless. And they are still veeeeeeeeeeery successful. If WotC had a track record as poor as them, people would be rioting at the streets waving pathfinder flags. 3rd party publishers most often then not aim at a feel more than at balance. There are many good ideas for settings, or adventures. But for mechanics? I think that's seldom the case.
I loved all of "now you can use this for free, but you can use your discipline to make it better" now monks seem strong 💪🏻
@jamesdeer3129 quivering palm is not the most important monk feature, it's a subclass feature
Quivering Palm isn't even pre-level 10. Barely anybody ever is going to be using it. What do you define as "important"?
Still needs a D10 hit die, it's a martial class, it should get a martial hit die.
Not sure how many people would agree with this, but I would've preferred is stunning strike would impose the dazed condition (or even just prevent opportunity attacks) if the target succeeded on their save. Going this route doesn't feel weird like dealing damage since the dazed condition is till a condition that imposes CC, plus the dazed condition already feels like a "lesser stunned" condition, at least to me.
Not opposed to that at all. It's a great new condition, would love to see it used more.
Honestly I am in agreement with this
Thought the same thing
Ok, that's actually perfect, I initially thought that the Damage should always happen, but Dazed on a Success would be great too.
Just preventing opportunity attacks on a failed stunning strike would be very underpowered given the new Addle change for Open Hand monk (they can just apply that effect for free). The daze on failed stunning strike would be cool, but actually very overpowered unless you tweak it slightly. I'd say on a failed save, the target is stunned, and on a successful save, the monk player can choose to expend one additional discipline point to apply Dazed instead. That way the player has to choose when this is worth it. Still very strong, but it can only happen once per turn and if the target saves, it's pretty costly for the Monk to eak out that guaranteed debuff.
"Once per turn"
Yours and the enemy.
Monks are now the best grapplers. Take the grappler feat and do damage while also grappling. Then drag them anywhere on the battlefield at monk speed. Flying Race + Warrior of the Hand or Warrior of the Elements can even Step of the Wind to drop the enemy from the air. Oh and did I mention that you still have your action to do anything, because you can do all of this with your bonus action?
Now imagine this with Elven Accuracy. 😂
i honestly i think this is more than good enough for the base class, now if they can only make the way of open palm actually gain a subclass feature at lvl6 and lvl11 i would have no more complains
Yeah I really do think this is the case. They've definitely made the base class compelling enough, at least for me and I am sure many others as well.
WotC: UHM ACKCHTUALLY IT'S WARRIOR OF THE HAND NOW MEEEEEER TAKE OUR MONEY
I get they're trying to move away from certain things but that name change feels really fucking arbitrary
Agreed, this is pretty awesome, there's room for improvement in potentially bringing back Weapon Mastery with Unarmed Strike integration since Monk Weapons use Martial Arts Dice again. Step of the Wind could also use a better Heightened Discipline as I'm not a big fan of taking someone with you, as while it can be good, I would've liked the option to Fly as part Step of the Wind (landing at the end of it though) as it would add a lot of utility and coolness that builds on the flavor of the Class better than what they get. Stunning Strike could also do Damage if they Fail, rather than being a weird Feature where sometimes you want them to succeed for the Damage. Body and Mind meanwhile is good... but I feel like they could so much more with this rather than copying Barbarian's boring Capstone Feature, even if Monk's is honestly better overall. Also, I feel like Monks should get at least Triple-Attack instead of Pact of the Blade Warlock.
@@halozoo2436monks get quintuple attack with attack action + fully upgraded flurry of blows. With all the discipline regaining and ease on expenditure, using flurry of blows most rounds won't cripple you as once you're out you can still disengage and become a skirmisher.
@@The_Crimson_Witch My issue is that it's using resources, when Fighters can get up to 5 Attacks At-Will for free, which is very different to what Monks can get.
Great rework. But I also agree on the tunnel vision. I see no reason why we couldnt see Monks in Light Armor wielding two handed weapons.
Honestly feels like that will be the Kensai subclass
Concerning 2014 Monk and it's need for a "Buff". Let's make this honest and simple:
You are building a team from a lineup of NPCs. You are all level 5 and the game goes up to level 10.
You already have basic spread of Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard in the group. So the basic 4. You have funding from your group patron and can afford to take TWO more people on your mission and you don't know any specifics about the mission. It could be anywhere, doing anything.
Select TWO from this list: Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Warlock, and Monk
Paladin get's Aura of protection next level right? So I'll give you that one for free.
The next choice should emphasize flexibility so Druid (or Bard) - because you don't know what you are going to be doing.
If I kept giving you more chances, it would probably come down to the Ranger (because we don't know if its a gloom stalker- so they may be useless),
Warlock (more likely than the Rogue to do something dangerous- their possible alliegance to outside powers makes them the most likely security risk),
vs Monk... and you would still choose the Ranger.
Out of the 8 available, you wouldn't take the Monk until maybe selection 6?
IMHO, monk weapons should just include weapons you have proficiency with. (This would override the need for Dedicated Weapon from Tasha's).
Personally, I'm not bothered by ranged Stunning since it's only once per turn, and I could see a monk targeting specific weakpoints in their enemies to induce stun.
Salivating, frothing, howling, screaming, i'm SO HAPPY
The perfect discipline is arguably in a significantly worse place than it was in the previous playtest.
Sure you can get it to trigger with more than zero DP at the cost of it restoring less DP, so you are obligated to spend 3 less Discipline points before it triggers at all, but on the other hand the monk became way less resource intensive already, getting the ability to use certain abilities for free that previously had a cost associated for them, AND getting uncanny metabolism.
Previously, in order to use perfect discipline, a monk had to use at least 13 Discipline points and then pick another fight without convincing the party that, since the monk is going to only have 4 for the next combat, we should really take a short rest, or at least give them a heightened metabolism breather. Now you only have to spend 13 discipline points followed by picking another fight without convincing the party that since the monk is only going to have 4 for the next combat they should take a short rest, AND you have to do that TWICE in a single day because the uncanny metabolism would grant you significantly more discipline points and it also restores discipline points on the same trigger. Oh and its even harder to use that many points since a lot of dp costs went down.
The feature working to bring 3 discipline points up to 4 is Just there to avoid minutia. You're still incentivized to use all of your discipline points because doing so restores the most When the ability activates and gives the most value in a day. In its previous edition, a monk who wanted to use the ability and had exactly 3 dp remaining would have just used uncanny Dodge 3 time or cast pass without a trace if a shadow monk. The fact that uncanny dodge grants temp hp means im probably going to do both or one or the either no matter what as of playtest 8
So in practice they didn't really change anything About this problematic feature. They're just putting in on a class that it works even worse on and pretending they fixed its design
Just calculated a maximum single turn damage of 476 using a 3 level dip into battlemaster fighter for action surge and superiority dice.
17 Open Hand Monk | 3 Battle Master Fighter [standard array with background bonus of at least +1 to each DEX and WIS, all ASIs spent on maxing DEX to 20 and WIS to 18)
Start with Bonus Action Flurry of Blows: 3 attacks @1d12+5 each plus 1d12+4 for a failed Stunning Strike plus 1d8 for each attack via any relevant maneuver. Apply Quivering Palm on any one of these hits.
Action Attack: 2 attacks, but trade one in for a 10d12 QP Vibration Activation, then attack for 1d12+5 plus 1d8 for a 4th superiority die and apply a new Quivering Palm
Action Surge Attack: Activate QP Vibrations again for 10d12 and make final attack @1d12+5.
Double all dice rolls except the QP Vibrations for assuming every hit is critical (dice double applies to Stunning Strike and Maneuver damage as per ruling applying to sneak attacks, Quivering Palm can't crit).
Maximum potential damage 476, unarmed using 10 Discipline Points and 4 Superiority Dice; You just killed a Kraken in a single lucky turn (or even a Demogorgon if they were foolish enough to blow their Legendary Resistances on stunning strike and maneuvers).
...
Then again... 2014 Open Hand Monk (w/fighter dip) can apply a Quivering Palm and immediately drop any creature to 0 with their Action Surge.
This is a REALLY big step forward for the monk. Even though I still stand by and idea I saw somewhere. Do something like they are doing with the Rogue where they can give up a sneak attack dice to gain some effect. Also the new Barbarian, they can give up the Advantage from Reckless attack to do some added effect and extra damage.
Give the monk the ability to cash in movement for some effect. Like when you roll initiative you can do these effects X amount of times per day. Give up 1/2 your movement to give target disadvantage against any saving throw you make it do. Give up idk 20 feet of your movement to gain advantage on your next attack. Give up like 30 feet of your movement to gain an extra martial die when you hit. Stuff like that.
I was thinking they should add this as well.
Stunning strike working at range makes sense if you consider the idea of using accupoints to paralyze someone
I’ve been DMing a UA8 monk since it came out, and it’s great - in fact it has so much action economy that it occasionally seems like a bit much - being able to use standard, move, bonus and reaction most turns from nearly the first session has made me feel bad for the other players who watch this guy pull out trick after trick while they can only use their standard and move
Hot Take: It's improved, but the class design still suffers from tunnel vision on what the class identity should be.
I don't think this is actually that hot of a take haha. That's been a large part of the stated trend of One D&D. They have stated that they are trying to move classes into a way that feels more cohesive with their intended design and identity. That may not ring true for all but it is something they have stated they are at least attempting to do.
I’d argue that’s a good thing, why have overlap between classes when subclasses already do that for you.
@@InsightCheck lol, yeah I'm picking a lot of buzz from optimization communities saying they love it, without much regard for the fact that monk as a concept is... Still misguided? 😅
i mean these changes if anything expanded on what the class can do, now the subclasses should be what really gives the monk a different feel similar to how a subclass in druid makes the class different.
really hoping for a revamp of open palm, shadow monk and the mage like monk classes
@@Garlly34 Sure, but there's narrow class identity, and then there's monk and druid...
This really feel like they made the 1st iteration so bad just so that ppl would be happy with this version.
I genuinely thought that while I was reading this version hahaha
I think that's skeptical to the point of being ludicrous. You think people wouldn't have been happy with this version if it came out first?
Amazing video! I'm surprised how few subscribers you have. It's also nice to hear good microphone audio, since that's usually my biggest pet peeve with D&D content creators.
Much appreciated! Thank you for that :)
I still think they need a bit more damage to be comparable to other martial classes. I also think that martials are still woefully unbalanced compared to casters who can do much more than them. However, I do think this is a good start.
Also, Perfect Discipline could be enhanced a bit more IMO. This is level 15 and all we're seeing is a few more Ki/DP? I'd say give Monks a second use of Uncanny Metabolism as well as what's mentioned would be absolutely fine. Now they have 2 uses of Uncanny Metabolism before needing a long rest and if they run out of that, they get the 4 points. I mean, at these levels, a caster's close to turning people into dragons. This isn't even close to that level.
I think the only think I really didn't like is how confusing step of the wind and patience defense is on what they get from dodge, disengage and dash. It could be four abilities, two always free and two always costing ki points, and would be better to read. But this is only nitpick. Monk is in a good shape right now.
i think free dodge action would be op
@@codebracker Ahh, me too, I just didn't make myself clear enough. The four options would be
free dash
free disengage
1ki dash + disengage
1ki dodge + disengage
In my head, this would be easier than actual wording, but I could be wrong.
Patience defense doing a free desingage looks weird to me.
@@TheMarceloAbner isn't that literally what it is in the UA?
@@TheMarceloAbner but you just said 1ki dodge + disengage?
I just read the new monk, and i think most of it is pretty good actually. I just have a problem with how deflect attacks only affects one incoming attack, wich is bad since by high level monster have more attacks. And how the monk hit dice is still a d8, a fucking MARTIAL class, and the hit die is a d8, it's obvious it should be a d10. I'm quite ok with the rest of the changes.
Sorry for any grammatical error, english is not my first language.
While I love it mechanically, I miss some of the old flavor abilities, like immunity to disease and not getting frail in old age. Heck, even tongue of sun and moon, while underwhelming as a new level ability, could be really fun for roleplay.
Great work! What a fast turnaround!!! Impressive, and great editing as well!!
I saw you were the first person to make a video on the changes so I subbed to the channel.
Monk definitely got a lot of good tweaks in this playtest, but a few things could still be ironed out. Patient defense and step of the wind should be combined together, as they both provide disengage in some way.
I appreciate that :) I was really lucky to happen to have taken a vacation day today haha!
And yeah, they could definitely be merged in some way, it would provide some great flexibility to the class and help unify a few things!
Did they still make its hit die a D8? I really didn't like that change, its a melee class which I think really needs that d10 to function the way its needed without feeling to frail.
Actually it's much more resilient than many fighters. The new deflect attacks allows for massive damage reduction per reaction used. A d10 would add +1 HP per level. This deflection gives a minimum of 1+ dex + level in comparison. A 3rd level monk with 16 dex would be able to reduce an average of 9.5 points of damage per round. A 5th level monk with 18 dex would reduce it by 13.5. And a 20th level monk with 26 dex would reduce it by 33.5 per round. I don't call that frail. And it adds to the narrative and fantasy. Monks are not about beef but more like the deflecting type.
Not only that but they have resistance to everything but force now. Monks aren't front liners anyways, they are skirmishers. They are meant to hit and run.
@@BlueFrenzyMore frail than a warrior but less prone to be hit is a nice mechanic for the monk.
AWESOME REWORK
no question makes them way more useful in combat, i am a bit sad if they drop some of the cool more RP focused bonuses though such as Tongue of the Sun and Moon or Timeless body.
I'd like to see Stunning Strike work more like this:
Without spending points, once a turn you can make your target lose their reaction on a failed save, but imparts the stunned condition on a failed save if you spend Ki.
That way it feels like it's doing the same thing but better, kind of like the rest of the abilities can do something but do it better with Ki. And honestly just remove the force damage thing, it's really weird and out of place IMO.
They would definitely not make the reaction removal a thing. They have been actively removing or reworking abilities like that (see the change to Shocking Grasp) because of the monster design change from Legendary Actions to giving those creatures more and/or special reactions.
Though I agree about the damage part. But another part is this: what if the enemy is immune to Stunned? The enemy can now just willingly fail the save (since that is a rule now for any creature) instead of rolling since they only take damage when they succeed. If Stunning Strike is going to deal damage to make up for it being once per turn and to give it "guaranteed value" for the D.Point spent, it should just be in general with a Stun added if it succeeds.
Ranger main seeing everyone else get cool new shit😊😢
Honestly yeah, I was pretty disappointed when I heard the Ranger wasn't going back out for another round of UA. Hopefully they make some good changes for the final version.
@@InsightCheck Ranger lover here and weirdly seeing this playtest makes me more confident they know where the issues lie based on feedback and have the capability to fix them *ahem* concentration-free hunter's mark *ahem*
Yeah conc really ruins the hunter's mark imo. I don't think it necessarily needs free casts, maybe one or half prof
Yeah conc really ruins the hunter's mark imo. I don't think it necessarily needs free casts, maybe one or half prof
I love this! I have always played monks and rangers. To fix the monk to a degree (in the past) I always had to multiclass with fighter.
This is great! I havnt played a monk in forever but this edition of it makes me want to do so very badly
I am a little upset about the removal of weapon mastery, because the monks improvements to the ability to use weapons synergize with it very well for multi classing in a sort of hexadin style of value. A single level dip into fighter can give a monk an extra attack per turn that uses, dex and their martial arts die just by picking up duel wielding fighting style and mastering the dagger.
The monk has long since had a comparison of being "a duel wield character but worse" with the amount of attacks it can make and still deal minimal damage with, I figured the best way to go about both the competition for bonus actions between features and the monks relationship to weapon masteries would be to just give their fists nick
Bone wizard did a video asking for actually most of these changes about a month ago. Maybe they just watched his video and went from there
so the buff martial artist is not something dnd supports ?
Thank you for yet again another great video! You mentioned you are running a 3 year long campaign and your players are now at 18th level. Would you make a video with some tips for DMs when it comes to high level play and what to expect?
I’ve been DMing for about 4 years and my groups next campaign goes to level 18 and to be honest I’m a little nervous 😬
I’m glad you enjoyed it! And that’s a great idea, I will absolutely make a video about high level campaigns and advice for it!
Picard, "Monks can only attack FOUR times!"
Gul Madred, "Wrong... They can attack FIVE times."
So I still need a support class, and one of their special actions, to reliably land a Stunning Strike? Portent, or some Bard thing...
OK, so how does this read? After I have a successful landed hit, I can attempt a Stunning Strike and WHEN they make their save, I can add another Martial Arts die + Wisdom bonus to the damage?
How about if I crit? Can I declare this AFTER I confirm a crit? Like Paladins SMITE? Will it double (or double the dice) with the crit? If I don't stun. Think about that, if you are a Shadow Monk (Pop darkness or at night) and attacking in the dark with advantage four times a round, that's 8 rolls (Attack 1 and level 5 extra attack, blow 1 Discipline Point for 2 bonus action attacks in flurry of blows), so how likely is your crit chance per round on 8 dice? 5% x 8 = 40%, so once every 2 rounds you can anticipate a crit (and MONK-SMITE)? Someone check my math on that, please.
Open hand (or Just hand) need Crit on 19 for one of those dead levels.
Sounds like Monk will finally be a fun class to play!
Honestly im a little concerned about Deflect Attack being to powerful, it can be used in almost any attack and is both offensive and defensive so its very broad in its usage.
Im also concerned about Monks making 6 attacks a turn at 11th level.
Deflect Attack does use your reaction, so there is a limit to it. I think this is their method of increasing survivability. Barbarian has rage, and the fighter heavy armor and martial weapons.
The Fighter could make 6-8 attacks on a turn with action surge at 11th level while Monk is capped at 3-6. The biggest difference is that the Fighter has weapon mastery and access to a lot more magic items that allows them to deal bigger hits than the Monk.
@@ayindehorton2803 Sure, A fighter can make more attacks with Action Surge, but they get significantly fewer of those than Monk gets Ki Points. As for magic items, it's been mentioned that there will be Unarmed magic items in the 2024 book, so I wouldn't be so sure about that.
@@calvinwarlick8533 you are definitely overthinking it. The power of a fighter is in their many attacks AND action surge. Look at the math, fighter still does more damage than monk. Deflect attacks is also balanced around being one per turn on top of the monk not getting any armor proficiency or shield proficiency or a d10 hit die. And the fighter can heal themself. The new monk is not broken
Also monks don't make six attacks they make five
Uncanny metabolism fixes warlocks, fighters and every class that requires recurrent short rests.
Or... remove short rests and balance around... actual long rests...
It's so good!!!
Now all I can do is see how much it gets nerfed or how much they buff the others classes to knock the Monk back to obscurity
Kin of suprised Hand monk wasn't mentioned. Granted that'd probably make the video more negative. Still not sure why the 3rd level feature NEEDS to be bound to Flurry instead of just unarmed strikes.
Cost, as in it needs one, so they add it to something you have already spent points on, now they COULD re-write it so it reads "when you use the Flurry of blows feature OR you may spend a point".
I have this funny playtest Monk idea.
Be a Level 11 Monk with the Weapon Master Feat and take the Nick Mastery on a Scimitar.
Take the attack action, do 3 Scimitar attacks which each deal a D10 + Dex. Mod. damage.
Then use Flurry of Blows to deal another 3 D10 damage + Dex. Mod. with your fists.
With a 20 Dex that is potentially (if you land every hit) 30 + 6 × 1 D10 = between 36 to 90 damage (63 on average).
two problems:
1. you are adding dex mod two more times than you should (offhand attacks don't get it by default, and nick is also only the damage die), so that's 10 less damage
2. you are not accounting for accuracy. which, yeah, you were honest about that, but typically people expect somewhere around 60-70% accuracy (obviously varies a lot by the individual monster), and so you're overselling the expected damage accordingly, even beyond the rules error above
I do think taking the feat for weapon mastery is a good idea, and Nick may end up being the best use of it in the end, but I haven't looked at the options in a while so I'm not sure what monk can make the best use of (maybe Vex).
When does this go live? Will I see it updated on d&d beyond?
Hey! They forgot to add Astral Self! >:c
Damn, with nick weapon mastery monks can make 6 attacks per turn now, damn
Yeah now it's now Focus Points not Ki Points or Discipline Points
Few things I see while flurry o blows puts the monk now in line with a 20th lvl fighter my question is which is faster a punch or swinging a greatsword or even longsword? Simply the flurry o blows just needs one more upgrade at late lvls or as I have suggested make flurry change your attack to x 2 or x 3 that way it solves your bonus action being used and still makes you have lots of lil punches(on yes and these must be unarmed attacks)
I miss the monks one-ness with the universe abilities
Also saves…they fixed str for attacking but we still rely on str for one of our proficiency saves vs gaining immediate proficiency in wis and Dex
Unarmored def needs to add some one off armor pts here and there or a third eye +2 armor basically barbs and fighters and pally and clerics still tank better with armor and shield. As it is the monk still doesn’t get an 18 def in base game till lvl 8 again you are almost done with most games by this point though at lvl 20 you can with no other feats and only stat increases get a 25 def but you go from a 20 def at lvl 16 to 25 at lvl 20….. :-/
They need lvl stat increases instead. Like every 5th lvl
Also do all the wis 1/2 feats require you to be a spell caster? As that was a prob before. If you made it this far thanks for reading 😊👍
The combination of saving throws is due to the "secret" class design rule for saving throws:
There are three major saving throws (Dex, Con, Wis - the only ones in 3.5e) and three minor saving throws (Str, Int, Cha). Each class gets one major and one minor saving throw proficiency.
@@SimonClarkstoneoh I get it but they just suck at str if there was a minor one you’d think it would be Con…almost ever other class has a minor save that at least makes sense for their class.
Shoudnt patient defence let you use dodge with bonus action instead of disengage?
Seems like the monk in Solasta.
A 15 yo text me this morning all excited about this new version.
How many decades did it take to get the monk right?
I do not like that they still charge you both a Bonus Action and a Ki point to use your class. I would settle for either a Ki point or a Bonus Action. So Flurry of Blows as either a Ki point or a BA. Same with the other powers. Jeez monks could use a Big Boost.
This is effectively what the DID do with flurry of blows, they just phrased it differently. Think of it this way. In Martial Discipline, Step of the Wind and Patient Defense both take things that are normally an action (disengage or dash) and make them a bonus action, with the option of getting 2 benefits at the cost of 1 point. Flurry is the same thing, they just put the default bonus action part in the Martial Arts feature. You always get to use a bonus action to make 1 attack, but Flurry lets you spend one discipline point to do 2 instead (and eventually 3).
And if you are saying that monks need to be able to make 3 attacks at level 2 at no Discipline cost, that seems excessive compared to most characters who are only making 1.
They watch bone wizard
is this in the current player handbook?
No it’s not. It’s play test material. This or a version similar to it will be releasing likely in the first half of 2024.
A lot of what I've seen from DnD 1 definitely made me invest in Pathfinder second edition.
You only ever play a monk mid-late stage DnD for the almost guaranteed stuns.
Now you can’t do that. It’s quite a nerf. Monk just became more useless than it was.
How is it “fixed”?
Because the quality of the class isn’t determined by one singular feature. You acknowledge that you “only play a mid-late stage Monk for the almost guaranteed stuns”. This is such an inherently flawed design. If there’s no reason to play a class other than taking advantage of a fundamentally broken and insanely swingy feature, that isn’t good design.
This redesign actually makes the class well rounded and cohesive and not solely dependent on one feature functioning. I cannot fathom how anyone can view this as “quite a nerf” and not be trolling.
@@InsightCheck It doesn't really. Monk didn't and still doesn't really have any strong features worth going for other than the stun.
Sure, you can pick up monk if you wanna RP the Avatar, but tbh you can do that with any class.
Monk is still a d8 frontliner with low AC and low dmg, even if the KI situation is slightly better. (Comperatively, ofc, nothing exist in a vacuum)
And yeah, you definitely play this game in sections. Most tables do their play up until 8-10th lvl, but hey, if you might know it's gonna be a 1-2y adventure, so you can prepare accordingly. That said, monk doesn't really fits into that. There are waaaaaay better early game options and soooo much better mid-late game options. (looking at you moon druid and any wizard subclass).
Defending a slight redesign from 5e, that tbh could have been done a decade ago from a multi-million dollar company that handles it's milking cow as shit, it's game designers as shit (and firing them before xmas as a proper cartoon villan) and it's costumers as brainless idiots is just pathetic in my opinion. There is nothing innovative or new in 5.5e so far. It's a waste of everyone's time.
and so there's no way it hits the book in this form lol
I love this new monk except for one feat. dump perfect discipline in the garbage please. its so bad. I want tongue of sun and moon back, its so fun
... I'm actually kind of impressed. This looks to raise the Monk from Tier 5 to Tier 4. Which is still unacceptably low in a game balanced around Tier 2, but considering how few changes in the playtest have resulted in any change of tier, this is significant.
You do force damage at 6 so I guess you don’t need the hands are magic thing.?. I guess
One theme throughout the playtest documents has been that all of the old features that say "your attacks become magic" or the like have become the ability to change the type of damage. Other classes have gotten radiant or elemental type things. It seems like they are getting rid of "resistance/immunity to non-magical weapons" as a concept.
that just generally seems to be the direction they're moving. other things got the same treatment, as I understand it
@@life-destiny1196 my hope is this means monsters that can only be hit by magical weapons, turned into rare things like they used to be, and not half the monsters manual
I like most of the changes they made to the Monk, but I still think the loss of Weapon Mastery feels like the Monk is getting Snubbed a bit. JCraw has gone on and on about how excited he is about Weapon Mastery and the new options, power and depth they add to Martial character gameplay. . . .and then the Monk just doesn't get it by default? I could understand delaying it until level 5 or something, but not at all feels weird and counterintuitive. Monks are supposed to be masters of *Martial* arts, not just unarmed combat. Many martial arts include or are fundamentally based on weapon use, so it's weird. I get how that starts to infringe on the Fighter's Power Fantasy, but it still needs to be addressed.
And it's also SUPER weird how they gave the Barbarian the "Rogue Cunning Strikes" treatment but didn't give the same to Monks, ostensibly the more tactical of the power fantasies in the UA. Stunning Strike could have been easily replaced with something like "Disciplined Strikes" and have a bunch of those "Cunning Strikes"esque abilities there fueled by Discipline Points, with Stunning strike as an option. Maybe they just couldn't think of anything beyond what the Open Hand already gets for those, idk.
I could see Monks going for the Weapon Mastery Feat, but considering that relatively few games ever make it even close to level 20 I think most people(beyond those who are brand new to DnD) will just be taking a level of Fighter for Weapon Mastery, Two Weapon Fighting Style, and some bonus healing in Second Wind. You can even afford to do that before level 5 as Weapon Mastery Gives you weapons with the Nick property (like the Scimitar) which is an earlier extra attack.
It's a step up, but given the low bar they set with UA6 anything not higher would've been just 6 feet under.
tbf, i would imagine the new kensei subclass will give weapon mastery.
@@TheMoguera I expect so, but it would also have been a good feature for the Open Hand, rather than the "When you use flurry of blows" option, simply give them the ability to apply a WM to unarmed, maybe more than one at higher levels, but only one per attack.
My only real complaint (about the monk class) I had when I was reading the UA is that you get a LOT at level 2, which isn't that bad but could be really confusing for newer players, if some of the text is simplified I don't think it'll be much of an issue though
5e has always been anti fun and anti character fantasy. I am here for light cross bow monk it seems rad.
I mean that's just a ridiculous thing to say
Looks like monk has been buffed to the point of the now horribly nerfed other martial classes.... there is still a giant chasm between martials and casters in one DnD, one no monk could ever hope to jump.
On the class itself, perfect discipline is still a lame power, even at lv15, and Lv20 capstone sure is good, but come on its a sure sign of the bleh fill it with something thats already been done idea, there is no originality or creativity at all in the writers room at WoTC.... and this is the third attempt at the class, thats very sad.
I disagree. It’s still pretty lame. Far too much still depends on ki, meaning that everything competes for your very limited resource. Step of the wind, for instance, and deflect attacks aren’t good enough to use ki on.
And I know they changed the name, but ki is a better term given the wu xia origins.
Edited to add: Actually, I reckon I've come around while reading through the comments. I'm not gonna delete / edit my OG statement cos I don't mind being proven wrong and learning from it.
To each their own I suppose. I obviously have not had the opportunity to playtest this yet but based on what I am reading I really don't think the class is going to be particularly Discipline starved anymore. The base effects of Step of the Wind and Patient Defense, that used to cost, don't anymore. That's a huge win. Uncanny Metabolism will also really help keep things in check. At the end of the day it is still a resource management game, like all classes. I think Discipline is now much more in line with some other classes. Sure, you can't go ahead and use your features on every single turn but I don't think that's a bad thing either.
In our playtesting, once you are out of ki you always do basically nothing. It’s needed most turns to be useful. And without even weapon mastery, a monk without ki has no function that any class can’t do better.
Deflect Attacks doesn't cost Ki though. It is now a (beyond the cost of a reaction) free ~9.5 (at lvl.1) to ~32.5 (at lvl.20) damage reduction each and every turn. Sure throwing it back still costs Ki, which makes it not cost efficient, but situationally useful for sure.
Meh. I have used both those abilities with the current monk. They have their place
Also. I think the word they are looking for for ki is "focus". It's not very specific to a culture and conveys what it does in context well. They also used it in Jade Empire.
Monk has improved greatly since the early attempts, but still remains outside the new game system. If they want unarmed strikes to have a similar style to weapon mastery this below could be a solution:
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1st: Unarmed Mastery
Your training with unarmed strike allows you to use a property of Unarmed Strike (Addle, Grapple, Push or Sweep) and combine this property with the Damage of each of your unarmed strikes. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can change the choose property of your Unarmed Strike.
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UNARMED STRIKE (variant)
An Unarmed Strike is a Melee attack that involves you using your body to addle, damage, grapple, push, or sweep a target within 5 feet of you. Whenever you use your Unarmed Strike, choose one of the following options for its effect:
ADDLE. The creature can’t make opportunity attacks against you for the rest of your turn.
DAMAGE. You make an attack roll against the target. Your bonus to hit equals your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. On a hit, the target takes Bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier.
GRAPPLE. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.
PUSH. You can push the creature up to 10 feet away from you horizontally if it is no more than one size larger than you.
SWEEP. The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw with a DC equal to 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency Bonus, or fall in the Prone condition.
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I think Unarmed Mastery is extremely necessary since they have eliminated the Mobile feat. The waste between bonus actions and discipline points is very heavy and impractical if one adopts a skirmish style of combat.
I love all the changes they have made to the base Monk this time around. Favourite one is Deflect Attacks - by far.
I had never even thought of deflect attack for melee as well. Now that it’s in the world, I can’t unthink it.
I suggested exactly this change in the feedback. It makes so much sense and I'm glad they either thought of it too or listened to the feedback.
I have no problem with stunning strike with ranged weapons, this would represent nerve strikes, etc., which could include precision strikes with ranged weapons. I didn’t notice you mention that they preserved the change to the stun lasting to the beginning of the monks next turn, not the end, making chaining stuns more difficult. If anything, I would keep it as written now, and perhaps add a little more chain resistance, like giving a bonus to save for each consecutive stun application.
Blowgun monk wep for ranged accupuncture stun strikes would be sick. Or just flavor hunting darts to throwing giant needles.
i dont think chain resistance will be necessary, since you can only do the stunning strike once per turn now, and even then its an either-or ability
Much much better. Still could use that d10 for hit points, more wis based skill options, and way to specifically improve ac that comes significantly sooner than 20th level. However, again this version of the Monk is drastically improved over that of the last playtest or any other base Monk in fact.
There's a very good way of improving AC sooner than 20th level: a viable option of using bonus action dodge.
That said: yeah, monk's hit die should be a d10.
I'm still not sure why a monk couldn't wear armor and do Martial Arts. I wish they'd remove that. They still have wording to not allow armor for Unarmored Defense, Unarmored Movement, etc, so if a Monk chose to be more of a Samurai or other armor-wearing martial artist, they'd be giving up other abilities, but that would be the player's choice. Frankly, I think more weapons should be monk weapons because they're used all the time in Martial Arts movies--even if it's just in a subclass. I think only one or two of the Ninja Turtles weapons' qualify--if that sways anyone.
Leonardo's Katanas probably count as Longswords, so I'd be ok with giving Monks Longsword proficiency.
Kesei will probably gain that, it makes sense, they could also gain the Weapon Mastery features.
Because Class theme
Still don't understand why a creature succeeding against stunning strike doesn't receive the dazed condition. It would only be perfect and properly balance the only doing it once a turn.
I actually think stunning strike should still be able to be done multiple times, but only once per creature per turn. That way you can't just nuke a boss for free, but you're amazing crowd control. Monks should be designed more than way to begin with to justify their speed and evasiveness.
Finally some good fucking news!
Finally some good fucking news!
All they needed to do was make the Monk's Discipline Points easier to manage at lower levels and their new level 2 feature basically does this. Finally, Monks now have a way to quickly recharge their Ki without relying on Short Rests, and we know that the new DMG will have new magic items that directly benefit unarmed strikes. This is the best rendition of the Monk in post-5e, it might not be perfect but I'll be satisfied if this is the final version of the Monk that we'll be getting in the new PHB.
finally a true monk w
I expected a bit more, it's seems that they fidex monk just refilling it's resources
I never try to playtest d&d One, and I know that it wouldn't be "a new game" but it's just a review of D&D 5e, I mean: it's just a 5.1 edition
I would like to see a new innovative edition
Well I'm sorry but you're not getting one no matter how much you want it
Got to build a level 20 monk (Warrior of the elements) that I am testing Thursday. It looks SO SMOOTH.
Also, the addition of new items to bump unarmed strikes means you can get to +19-+21 range
The monk is still lesser than the rogue because the rogue can do sneak attack AND disengage, while the monk can do flurry of blow OR disengage.
Monk can disengage as an action and still FoB
Monks can attack twice and if they do the stun on just one attack it helps it keeps up its rouge in that area. The idea of monk is speed, many attacks and a support damage dealer
Still the rogue can do speed and damage better, your only point is the stun, but considerer rogue creates their own advantage while monks have to stun against CON, one of the highest saves on the game. Wherever you look rogues are better.@@user-mu8ok5xf8d
Always take menacing with this subclss, it can afford to sacrifice a single attack and benefits from Visage.
I always thought the monk should get unarmed strike and 2 weapon fighting as bonus feats. So the monk don't take penalties for making an attack with both hands. I thought monks were trained so should be trained to use their hands.
I'm sorry did they follow "Bone Wizard"'s rework idea. Based
What is with Ricky Coogan from Freaked doing at 5:47?
Great video as always! I'm super excited for this monk!
Hate the new stunning strike and reliance on initiative rolls.
they just need wisdom mod added to ki point pool
It's pretty good. I still think only being able to stunning strike once per turn makes that ability pretty useless. However being able to get even more attacks from flurry of blows and being able to use "shove" with any one of those attacks goes a long way to mitigate that. The stun part of stunning strike to me never seemed as important as the being able to knock a flying creature out of the air and force it prone aspect. So being able to shove 5 times in a single turn at level 10 if you really wanted too seems to get you to more or less the same place.
Also arbitrarily having the hand crossbow excluded would seem weird as you have several other light weapons that can be used at range when thrown, Light Hammer, Handaxe, and Dagger. I do think it's weird that the hand crossbow is light but not the sling, blowgun or darts.
Deflect energy please please let me reduce the damage to zero so I can send it back to the sender
It already works this way, right? All Deflect Energy does is remove the damage type requirement from Deflect Attacks, which has this function baked in already
The Monk knows Jiu Jitsu
Seems a bit powerful to me. Monk at 5th level can shove someone prone with your bonus unarmed attack for advantage, attack 2 times, Use Fury of blows to attack 2 more times then you either stun them for the round or do more damage? Basically 5 attacks a round, 6 if you spend the estra discipline to stun. This outclasses most fighters. Or imagine grappling and dragging a mob 80ft, stunning them and using your fury of blows attacks to throw them off a cliff, stairs, roof, or just about anything that is within a dashing distance? Is there any point in choosing rogue anymore?
common rules misunderstanding btw. flurry of blows gives you two unarmed strikes as a bonus action. martial arts gives you one unarmed strike as a bonus action. you only get one bonus action so you can't do both. this monk is not able to attack five times per round until level 10, unless you get Nick from something, or some other thing I haven't thought of
and, yes, it's way better than existing monk. it should be. 5e monk is carried by stunning strike, and there are a lot of monsters that either resist it really well (high AC, CON save, legendary resistance all reduce the chance of you getting it off), or generally show up in packs, meaning one stun only locks down a single enemy while several others don't have to care. if you don't get a stunning strike off, it's the worst class in the game.
out of a laundry list of big improvements in UA8, two of the biggest ones are actually related to its early game defense: not needing ki for bonus action dash/disengage, which means monks are very free to position where they want; and the ability to deflect melee attacks, which is a huge damage reduction that hopefully will do a lot to close the survivability gap with classes that are allowed to wear armor. remember that most monks are primarily melee combatants!
frankly, everything you describe is exactly what I'd want out of a monk.
@life-destiny1196 the way it reads now is you spend 1 discipline to get 2 extra attacks. I didn't see where it states using discipline is a bonus action. I could be wrong still... but looks like it should specify in the reading.
Nm. I read again.... it is a bonus action
Personally i think the stunning strike fail case should be the Dazed condition rather then doing damage. Otherwise I'm really happy with these changes.
Your speed in churning out these videos is really impressive. Also yay, monks are finally good!
Wow.
Much needed changes.
Still feels balanced now
I finally want to play a Monk!
"The class feels fair".....
Is that because all of a sudden you get no resource features (which other classes are penalised heavily for using btw), and way more resources to use?? Sorry, but the key word in resource management, is MANAGEMENT! Do you really want to be able to disengage after making 3 attacks at level 5, well a point of ki should be the expected price.
No, this has got nothing to do with what is fair, but rather what is a straight up power boost.
It can be both...?
No, they oped monks. Once more the update version is making characters op
Yeah that's not going to make me come back to d&d. There's so many better games out there