Star Wars Can't Move On
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ม.ค. 2021
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The finale to season 2 of The Mandalorian disappointed me more than any piece of Star Wars in quite a while. It isn't just that I found the surprise reveal of Luke Skywalker tremendously awkward and poorly executed, but I kind of hate what it suggests for everyone's favourite galaxy far, far away.
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Works Cited:
Has The Mandalorian Succumbed to the Dark Side? 2020. Matt Zoller Seitz. www.vulture.com/article/the-m...
The Mandalorian Let Baby Yoda Be a Baby, and It was Good. 2020. Kathryn VanArendonk. www.vulture.com/article/baby-...
The Phantom Menace at 20: Was the Infamous Prequel Actually that Bad? 2019. Ben Child. www.theguardian.com/film/2019...
Star Wars: The Force Awakens - 12 Reason It's Better Than the Prequels. 2015. Ezra Schwartz. www.theguardian.com/film/2019...
Music Featured:
Both Flanks by Small Collin
The Wind by Komiku
Facing It by Komiku
Setup with an E
Symphony No. 1: Hope? by Steve Combs
Love Him by Loyalty Freak Music
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#StarWars #TheMandalorian #LukeSkywalker
We all know the most radically different and bold Star Wars movie is the holiday special.
I want a Holiday Special Episode 2: Life Day IN SPACE with a fully animated young Peter Mayhew inside the costume! Also there has to be a Wookie that says „Fuck you, George Lucas!“ in plain English while staring directly into the lens.
Whip, stir, whip, stir, whip, stir
I hate that this isn't even an opinion, it's a stone-cold fact
@@btarczy5067 they did do a lego holiday special that was actually pretty good
@@Matthew-xz7vl Sounds fun, I‘ll definitely look it up!
@@btarczy5067 😂Disney please hire this individual
I didn’t understand why some critics felt that Rise of Skywalker was ruined by too much fan service. I hated it due to the pacing and nonsensical writing accompanied by J J’s famous mystery box storytelling. Here Chewie, here’s a medal I just found in my mystery box. Here Poe, it’s a first order coin that gives unlimited access to the first order starships. I found it in my mystery box. Here’s a magical dagger that has ancient sith writing, but also lines up with the wreckage of the death star. That’s the kind of writing that I despise. Don’t want to explain something so you just gloss over it, move on, and hope the audience is too dumb to notice. The ultimate example of that would be bringing back the emperor and establishing it through fortnite and the opening title crawl.
It was ruined by many things, including the gratuitous bait for the fans.
I think it makes sense in the case of The Rise of Skywalker specifically, now I will say I don’t think fan service is inherently bad and shouldn’t be used to immediately say something that has it is bad, however the way TROS uses it just feels like it’s trying to distract you from all the much more major issues you mentioned
Bringing back JJ for the last movie was a terrible idea. The man famously can't end stories well, but Disney saw that the first movie was well-liked, so they just thoughtlessly threw money at him.
Because fan service is pandering, its not good story telling, it adds nothing to the plot or themes; its just a cheap way to illicit an emotional response that was earned by better movies.
@@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth EXACTLY. He only knows how to introduce ideas in a cool way despite the fact that he has no idea where to take these ideas. That’s why The Force Awakens and Star Trek (2009) were pretty fun, if simplistic movies, while Rise of Skywalker and Into Darkness were widely disliked. LOST is a perfect example of this. He loves to bait people into a story, he’s an exceptional writer at hooking an audience, but after that he has no plan.
It doesn’t help that the Disney execs also had no plan but still, bringing back JJ for Episode 9, someone notoriously bad at ending stories, was a doomed decision from the moment it was made.
For at its faults I will always respect Rian Johnson’s attempt to actually make Star Wars interesting and have some form of depth again, unlike either the two films that JJ made which were all plot, all fan service, and zero substance. Rian Johnson wasn’t making a movie to please fans, he was making a movie that he thought would make for a good story. The execution wasn’t perfect but I’d still take it over a plot with no story or meaning to it like Rise of Skywalker any day of the week.
This is why I love Kotor so much, it's so distant to the Skywalker saga that it truly feels like discovering star wars again, there is some references but nothing more.
Even the 2 KOTOR games feel distant
Thats why i like swtor too, even if its the same conflict to a certain point both sides fell quite different, showing the differences between old and new republic and sith and galactic empire.
The further you get from the skywalker saga arc, the better Star Wars can be.
Yeah but on the other hands there's Bastila... I hate her with a passion...
i dont think the skywalkers are the problem, but rather the writing around them, from what ive read the original sequel trilogy was about building up a society after a war
you can seriously make pro wrestling analogies with anything
The wrestling analogy was the point I knew I wanted to make this video.
@@EyebrowCinema im always impressed at youtubers when they show their WWE fans
@@mrflipperinvader7922 Personally I'm not a WWE fan at all . . . But I do recognize that the franchise has a way of distilling down narrative and character drama to an performative essence that can take place entirely within the ring.
Yeeeees the eastern berserk
*eastern jojo
This video explains about what I'm currently feeling about not just Star Wars, but Hollywood franchises in general.
Yep, I'm reaaaaaly fucking tired of Hollywood. Which kinda sucks because other films don't get the budgets and distribution that Hollywood does. I love indie and other kinds of films, but that's just onw type of film, I still love sci fi, action, superheroes, etc. It's just, because of the budgets, that only comes out of Hollywood, and... well, most of it has no soul nowdays.
One simple solution: dont watch movies, that obviously pander to nostalgia and fanservice. I dont get all these marvel fans saying "yeah its kinda bad and meh, but I still have to go". These are movies I know exactly what I will get out of. Maybe great for a lazy saturday, but nothing I would throw my money at.
@@carlosdumbratzen6332 don't blame the individual
@@daftbanna7202 lol
I just say: dont whine about bad movies if you go to see bad movies, because then you will get bad movies.
Yeah I know that the reason hollywood does not produce good movies atm is because you seemingly forgot how to use your antitrust laws to finally bust the monopolies of disney and WB. Just like how german film has been on a downwards spiral because our film funding is a corrupt incestuous cesspool.
But you cant deny, that every time a new marvel movie comes out, every forum and comment section is full of smh blind people hyping the fucking shit out of these movies. And afterwards they are dissapointed for some reason.
I remember when the 7th star wars movie came out. My group of friends organised a movie night where we watched all 6 movies and planned to go see the movie the next day. After we finished episode 3 (we started with 4 obviously) it was clear to us, that this story was finished. I did not watch the new movies until several years later, when I was in the absolute brainrot of the winter lockdown 2021. And they dissapointed me as much as I thought they would. Except for episode 8, that was atleast original and Rogue One, which was just a fine movie, all of them were bottom shelf and outright insulting (episode 9 and Solo) bland and uninspired movies. Sadly this was quite obvious to happen and atleast clear as soon as you saw the first trailers.
@@carlosdumbratzen6332 youre ignoring the fact that 1 people like the MCU movies, everyone loves the new Spiderman 2 a lot of people only go to the cinema a couple times a year and will want to see stuff they are familiar with. 3 families take their kids.
With regards to that Tweet; I'm willing to be that a significant chunk of the audience are 'Baby Yoda fans' rather than 'Star Wars fans' and if they really are loosing him is going to have a huge impact going forward.
They won't keep Grogu gone for long, but they need to space out his appearances so they don't overexpose him.
@@Nonamearisto About that...
@@LordVader1094 They're overexposing him, yes. He should be away with Luke, but they pulled him back prematurely.
If you ask me, the biggest mistake Disney made when writing their sequels was to invalidate the novels and lore already in the Expanded Universe. It's not so much that Star Wars cannot move on, in fact it had. It's just that, in an effort to repeat the phenomenal success of the original series, they started off with an almost carbon-copy of the original film. I just think that really underpins the lack of creativity in the team Disney brought in, though to be fair, the pressure was intense.
Actually, throwing ~100 books away that contradict each other on a frequent basis and, lets be honest, havent been read by their target audience, was a smart move. But, in the process of scrapoing the EU, they should have taken better parts out of it and adapted them. Well, adapted them better. Bcs Kylo is just Jacen but even worse.
But something like the thrawn trilogy could have worked, you just need to make thrawn come back after 30 instead of 5 years, and set up a good cast aside from leia han and luke. And showing how their children deal with it. Show Han taking up his general title again and horribly lose against thrawn, dying in the process. Sets a strong motivation for the kids. Make the big bad guy NOT a sith for once.
@@thelegolistme3250 is it any better to have the children of the popular characters be the stars, I mean have you seen ppl’s reaction to baruto, I mean all the original ideas the directors had for the sequel trilogy would’ve been better if they didn’t pander
@@benjaminwatson7868 i do think its better and want to add that Boruto gets a lot of hate for being full of fillers afaik. If course you cant just give us a young Han, a young Luke and a young Leia, but you can use their premise to flash out dufferent paths.
@@HelghastStalker except for the books where it did. I, Jedi amd the Jedi academy trilogy, tho you coukd argue that ones on different povs. But there are some light retcons every now and then, and even if it all magically fita together... It's still a convokuted mess. Frankly, i lost count on the death star ripoffs, the imperial warlord of the week and so on. Not to mention how powerful Luke was at the point where the sequels wanted to pick off. Scrapping it all was a good idea, until they took out the worst parts and fucked them over twice
@@HelghastStalker oh pls tell me where i need to expand my knowledge bcs quite frankly the ~ 70 books i read so far just seem to slightly scratch the surface
I was always disappointed with the sequel trilogy. Back when I was a kid, before there was even talk of a new trilogy, I imagined a different story after RoTJ. I would always imagine Lea being apart of some new Republic government, Han marrying her and Luke starting a new Jedi Order. But it was always new in my mind. Similar to the prequels, but no empire, clones or anything like that, because that has already ended. When I was a kid, I wanted to see my beloved characters (who were now strong and seasoned veterans of the Rebels v Empire) take on a new, even more powerful DIFFERENT villainous force. Maybe some ancient force beings or an invasion of aliens from another Galaxy. Something that was still WARS in THE STARS. Just my two cents. I actually liked The Mando because it felt like the Starwars galaxy and melded the prequels and OG trilogy very well.
That actually happens in the now retconned expanded universe timeline. The Star Wars galaxy is invaded by the Yuuzhan Vong, a genetically engineered alien race that can't be sensed by the force, and there is a massive war that is greater in scope than any other in Star Wars.
That is pretty similar for me, I was always thinking the heroes would face some ancient dark side evil.
@@nathandrake5544 I learned about them from The Closer Look's rewrite of the Sequel Trilogy. Now I consider the Shitquel Trilogy not canon.
It happens, in the decanonized expanded universe the story went on for like 3 centuries, some Skywalker generations weren't even jedi, they were sometimes pilots, sometimes mechanics, etc.
Your idea sounds way cooler than what we got, instead Leia is a part of some rag-tag rebellion, and is divorced from Han, Han is still doing what he always did, no updated, higher job, just still smuggling and getting caught in the hair of gangs, Luke is some sad hermit and his Jedi Order failed years before the events of the movie, and they face against this insanely high tech First Order that came out of seemingly nowhere, even though the New Republic should've had reigns over the whole galaxy, maybe except for places where that'd be hard like Hutt controlled sectors, but just the fact that the First Order appeared, was somehow up to par with the Galactic Empire, and immediately destroyed all New Republic worlds seems like bad writing to me.
I don't really consider the Sequels canon lmao, at least the Disney+ Star Wars shows are cool, tbh most of the Star Wars stuff that isn't the sequels has been good, Rogue One, Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett (from the first two episodes as of making this reply)
I think you're really close with this one, but you didn't realize just how much Star Wars is being held back by its meta-narrative. Everything is a reaction to public sentiment regarding something else. It always has something to prove to fans, mostly that it has a concrete direction for the future since the nihilism of The Last Jedi offered little room to replace the ideas it deconstructed with something else. Season 2 of the Mandalorian is playing catch up in double time, not to tempt traditional fans with familiar aspects, but to fix all the broken promises made by recent mistakes. Boba proves his father was actually a Mandalorian, just not the kind Prime Minister Almec was thinking of. Ahsoka proves the cliffhanger in Rebels was actually there for a reason and isn't just a dead end. Luke proves (again) that he does actually care about the order and the future of young Force users. This is why I hesitate to recommend it to anyone but hardcore fans, because they'll have the same reaction as you, grasping onto the new elements, but feeling somewhat betrayed when they're suddenly pulled away from the story to justify something else. I think there is a world in which Star Wars can move on, but first it has to get out of this loop of screwing up and apologizing over and over
A REALLY well written essay, ese. Lots to take in, here. Like, yeah, I was surprised when caught my mom watching an episode, because the only Star Wars movie she'd ever actually sat through was "The one with Billy D Williams"....
last jedi didn't deconstruct anything: the whole "subverting expectations" was all a red herring
Season 2 of The Mandalorian was good until like the last 3 episodes that was basically mostly pandering, bland and lacking any real story
For what? What was the distraction trying to distract us from?
What the core theme of The Last Jedi is not nihilism or that the mythos or legend of the Jedi or Luke Skywalker are bad but the exact opposite. The movie direclty says that the mlegend of Luke Skywalker is more important than Luke Skywalker the man but that we need to acknowledge our failures or the failures of our mentors or the institutions we live in to improve them.
"The moments that stuck with me had remarcably little to do with the brand."
Somewhere in Anaheim California, a disney executive shudders.
Disney Cast Member : "What's wrong?"
Executive : "I have sensed a great disturbance in the market. As if millions of shareholders just cried out and were silenced!"
Remarkably.
I hated the way they treated Jake Lloyd
"They" who? The critics? The fans? The jealous peers?
@@SirBlackReeds all of them
if you have to keep falling back to 'the big names', you've failed to create and uplift any new comers to actually try and overcome their own obstacles. its been a constant source of dissapointment and mediocrity in modern entertainment. nobody seems to want to stick to the risks of new characters, especially investors; so studios stifle any long growth just to rake in the cash while they can then toss it out when they can no longer squeeze a profit.
Or the new characters are just pushed too hard and too early and writers can’t bother to build them up. They can‘t wait and build, which should be easier as you got time as you have the old characters to keep people interested until the new truly blossoms. Instead they try to tell the audience the old wasn’t even that good. Cobra Kai is a show more respectful of the legacy, characters and lore of some 80s karate movies than Star Wars was and by being respectful to the old characters and making them truly mentors while continuing their stories they managed to create a new cast of characters that have been completely accepted by the old audience while attracting new fans because it gets the balance right. As a new watcher like me with no attachment to the Karate Kid movies I’m invested in both the old and new characters as the narrative makes both essential and isn’t trying to get rid of the old cast as fast as possible but is using them with the new characters to expand the narrative. One of the creators of Cobra Kai wrote an interesting article on that topic discussing the importance of respecting the old and building the new from within it so it can grow out of that without feeling just tagged on. All these franchises go after the old building with sledgehammers and break the foundation and are shocked they can’t build a new building on it. They want to abandon the old and get the new audience in a way that alienates the old audience which leads to them panicking trying to get them back. Your aim with a legacy franchise should be to get both audience groups. After all the old audience is bringing their young kids to the movies and putting on the shows at home while you also need the new cast so the new audience wants to keep watching. There is this flawed narrative you can only serve one. The reason Star Wars is going backwards is because they made up their sequel Trilogie on the fly and managed to disappoint both new and old fans. Now Star Wars is on an apology tour trying to rebuild the foundation so they can do what a planned out trilogy should have done.
The de-aging of Doc Oc was amazing, I wish they could've done that well with Luke.
It suddenly makes so much sense why Pedro might be unhappy. He is being overshadowed in his own damn Prestige Series.
There's been rumors floating about that all he wanted was to be able to show his face and Favreau/Filoni (or both) wouldn't let him.
@@SirBlackReeds They have let him... three times.
Sure it's really not a lot, but for a character who tries to never remove his helmet, it's a lot more than I was expecting.
“looking to the past is simply how abrahams tells stories”
just think about that sentence, just let the meaning of it sink in
I love hearing a young voice weigh in on this. It’s really cool that there are new fans and that different concepts are enjoyed from star wars. You’re proof enough that new stories need to be told with new characters.
Yeah they ain’t doin too hot with that new character stuff
the whole point of mandos taking care of grogu was so that he could give him back to the jedi. the show was building towards the luke reveal ever since mando took that oath to grogu. its sad and unfair to mando and grogu, as theyve developed a close father-son relationship, but in the long run would've helped grogu reach his full potential, and mando knew that. its a bittersweet end to the show and if they changed to make it seem less as nostalgia bait, the ending wouldn't have that same impact. its not about nostalgia bait, its about the end of a relationship. though, i will say, luke cutting down the death troopers was pretty cool.
Here's the funny part: that could have happened in Season 4 or 5, not Season 2. It was literally just "we have no ideas left because we shot ourselves in the foot"
Except now Grogu is back with Mando so none of that mattered anyway smh
It's a series that is continuously trying to please a fanbase incapable of being so, they seem to want to recapture the magic of the original trilogy without realizing that it was lightning in a bottle to begin with, and also that they've grown up since then and can't see it the way they did when they were kids.
That's simply not true. Fans can and have been pleased since the OT. Just look at the Clone Wars, Rebels, or The Mandalorian.
@@Nonamearisto Not a single one of which I care about.
@@genyakozlov1316 The Clone Wars in particular is quite good.
The fans that weren’t pleased with the Star Wars 1313 demo seem to have kept their opinions mostly to themselves.
The Star Wars burnout is real. I wasn't jizzing over season 1 so I didn't even bother with this, and I don't think I'll bother with anything else Star Wars or Marvel for a long time.
I'm not in the "I'm done with this" mood just yet, but the sheer volume of Star Wars shows stuff down the pipeline is overwhelming to the point of being discouraging.
What about DC? ;)
@@SirBlackReeds Never cared in the first place.
I had this after seeing TLJ in the theaters on one of the first days. I didn't even bother to watch Solo in the cinema and only went to see Episode IX because my dad wanted to. While before TLJ released i loved eveything to do with the franchise. I somewhat want to watch Mando, but I'm never going to buy Disney+ and i don't care enough to watch it by other means
i stopped watching marvel since the first awful and generic avengers movie
I loved the mandolin season 1 because it did a great job of feeling like a part of star wars without relying on bringing back old charters and gave us a new story that fit so well. I did still enjoy season 2 but it really did become a revolving door of old charters with every episode bringing someone back. Even Cob Banth was a returning charter, I can't even think of a single new character introduced in season 2 with a memorable moment.
The Mandolin
*Plings menacingly*
I think feloni did this so Kennedy couldn’t kill of the characters soul even more
16:34 I disagree
I think that them leaving baby yoda with Luke is huge step forward on moving on. You have a character that you’ve grown to love now gone in the end of season 2. In the end of the day the show is called the mandalorian not baby yoda and season 2 left off on a cliffhanger on what’s to come with din getting the dark saber.
the similarity between Luke's Mandalorian showdown and Vader's Rogue One Showdown is SO WEIRD!!
Father and Son
both were done as fanservice. But only one of the two was rewarding and gave us shivers of terrifying excitement.
It’s not weird at all, it’s literally everybody’s favorite part of rogue one and they knew that, so they did it again and it was tacky
Here's my issue with your conclusion here: That scene with Luke in the Mandalorian wasn't at all arbitrary as a typical nostalgia bait would be. As soon as Grogu appeared in that show all roads lead to Luke. What I can agree on is that the cgi was atrocious.
I definitely agree The Mandalorian, and the others all serve their purpose when passing Grogu off to luke. I don’t see anywhere else The story could’ve gone besides maybe Asoka taking him in or another Jedi. I thought it was wonderful when Luke showed up showing just how important The whole Mandalorian show is in the Star Wars universe, relating to Luke building up his padawan school.
Wdym the cgi is bad
@@captainbean4219 Gonna go ahead and assume you're joking
@@michaelt1357 well I never had a moment in the show when I thought it looked bad
Exactly. The whole end goal of season 2 was to get Grogu to a Jedi. Luke is one of the only remaining Jedi left at that point in time so realistically where else would Grogu go to? Especially when Ahsoka refused to train him.
You know, I think I would buy "The prequels are about the politics of the galaxy!" if the climaxes of those movies were the political maneuvers.
It would have also helped if the political plot made any sense at all!
@@Planetbustard I wouldn't call it amazingly well executed, but which part doesn't make sense?
A wannabe dictator wants to take over a polity that is corrupt and decrepit but not really fit to be coup de ta'd, so he engineers two sides of a conflict that allows him a pretext to consolidate tremendous power behind his political office, then at the culmination, does away with his co-conspirators and internal oppossition in one fell swoop.
Lucas executes it clumsily, but the broad strokes don't seem too inaccessible.
@@Bustermachine I agree
It almost feels like they were all a mashup of 2 movies. Because the action-drama is there and the intrigue-mystery is there. It just feels like they weren't able to focus on one or the other.
@@Bustermachine There is a difference between "playing both sides" and completely controlling both sides. Palpatine gives orders to the trade federation and appears to be the leader of the separatists, while also being the chancellor, and the one who creates the entire clone army. No one suspects a thing, and no one rats him out. Is he controlling everyone’s minds with the dark side?
Who even are the trade federation or the separatists? I have watched these movies countless times and I still don’t really know.
When he says the Jedi are taking over and need to be eradicated no one questions it, and jedi just give up even though the Jedi has done nothing to lose public trust in the past.
With the level of control he has he should just take over immediately, no need for three movies.
I’m sure someone has made 2 hour TH-cam video complaining about the plot somewhere, but I’m not going to do that or engage in anything further.
I'm glad somebody other than me has this position.
I brought this point up with my friends, and they all shunned me
@@lymer2158 time for new friends
The Rise of Skywalker: I am the most hated, embarrassing movie ever connected to star wars
The Holidat Special: *Cracks Knuckles*
Your meme is bad and you should feel bad.
@@SirBlackReeds I’m sorry
@@nateds7326 Do not be sorry. Be better.
The Holyday Special is a masterpiece when compared to any SW movie made after the original trilogy
@@SirBlackReedsoveracting much?
One of the most underrated TH-cam channels around.
Cheers Dyler. I appreciate that.
TLJ was flawed, but it was a really exciting promise to at least try to go somewhere kind of new with Star Wars. TRoS was a violent rejection of even considering that. The fact that Palpy was the big bad and Rey ended up alone on a desert planet calling herself "Rey Skywalker" confirmed for me that there's nothing more to get out of Star Wars for me but cheap nostalgia. At least, in its current incarnation.
@Skelley-Priest you're a silly person
TFA burned away a lot that could have been developed. TLJ brushed away what was left, and got rid of anything TFA set up, too. TLJ wasn't made to follow on from anything, or lead to anything. It's more like a standalone movie than the middle part of a trilogy. TRoS had nowhere left to go but Palpatine.
@@smartalec2001 your argument is also silly
@@smartalec2001 "there was nowhere left to go but Palpatine" is possibly the most fascinatingly and obviously wrong things I've read in months
@@turtlezinthesky It's true. There was no New Republic, no New Jedi Order, no places or worlds they'd developed in previous movies, no Coruscant or Tatooine or anywhere our characters had a connection with, Snoke was dead, Phasma was dead, the vast majority of the Resistance was dead, DJ was out, Han was dead, Luke was dead, Carrie Fisher sadly died so Leia was practically out, there was nothing but ruins on Ahch-To, there were no Jabba the Hutt or Boba Fett type characters, Finn and Poe hadn't been developed... they had nowhere to go to round up the trilogy. There were some cool ideas in the leaked ep9 original scripts, Finn leading a stormtrooper rebellion, stuff like that, TLJ set up nothing like that. How could they wrap this trilogy of trilogies up? What could they do - except bring back the villain of the previous two trilogies out of nowhere?
TFA: weak world building, full of plot holes, shits on old characters.
TLJ: weak world-building, even more plot holes and shits on old characters even harder
RoS: weak world building, massive plot holes and shits on old characters a bit less than TLJ
Mandalorian: weak world building, full of plot holes, doesn't shit on old characters.
How about, I don't know, making a movie with a solid plot and worldbuilding that doesn't shit on old characters?
Maybe they should've viewed Luke from behind and not showed his face at all. This would've sidelined him and put all the focus on the Mando parting with Grogu.
I do agree that ofcoarse Luke returning towards the end was servicing fans, but I don't feel that he completely overshadowed our new characters. Because of the 3rd season we're getting with Mando, basically in a situation removed from the Skywalker storyline, I know that they won't do much more sacrificing of the new for the old.
Are we? Early on they said that The Mandalorian was going to help explain how the First Order came to be, so from the beginning it was always meant to tie to the Skywalker storyline in some way.
@@SirBlackReeds i thought it was just showing the beginnings of the first order as in the Empire attempting to grow again
Quality piece as usual.
My only disagreement would be that the return of Luke Skywalker was more akin to the return of HBK at Summerslam/ Survivor Series '02.
Both were former heroes we never expected to see in that way again...
ooo definitely a fair comparison. I guess I'd argue that Michaels was inserted into a story where he belonged a lot better than Luke was, but you make a good point.
8:24 yup, I never want to hear another debate on this movie ever again. It's been four years. You like it? Cool. You don't? That's fine. I don't want to hear anything else.
Another reason I've avoided Star Wars on youtube for so long.
@@EyebrowCinema I'm a shipper and it's really bad there. What's worse than a shipper? A star wars shipper.
Same for me, I sunk way too much time into it
Aw, but it's so fun to pick apart.
@Dread StarZ i am
For a lot of people the Skywalkers ARE Star Wars, and Luke being told to rebuild the order by Yoda was a setup that didn't get paid off in the sequels. Seeing Luke again in Mando made up for a lot of the wrongs in the sequel trilogy and reminds us that his story did in fact continue after Ep. 6. A lot of us wanted to see that story.
Doesn't mean you can't tell other stories but I don't think Star Wars necessarily NEEDS to move on from the Skywalkers yet, and the assertion that it does is weird to me.
Turkish delight
Just read the novels.
There can be new stories but there's no need to hide Luke Skywalker or complain every time he shows up.
The skywalkers are critical to the mainline films. Its thier story. Its like centering a season of JoJos on greg from accounting or an adaptation of Return of The King on tom bombadil.
Side line stuff doesn't need it, but its not actively hurt by it.
There is need to move on from Luke Skywalker because the idea of Luke Skywalker is that of the hero's journey. And the hero's journey is complete with the original Star Wars trilogy and The Last Jedi. In the end the hero fails and needs to reconcile with that failure but he can not return to the glory days but sacrefices himself for an idea or a people or some other higher thing that himself. That is the whole point.
As rich evans said "star wars is creatively bankrupt"
Mike: Notice how we’re talking about what’s gonna happen in the next Star Wars movie and we didn’t bring up any of the new main characters?
Rich: *LAUGHS IN RICH*
Without even mentioning the 9 new shows on the way, only one of which (The Acolyte) holds any prospect of moving on.
It worked though. The Mandalorian episode is currently rated 9.8 on IMDb with over 40,000 reviews and is the highest rated episode of the entire show
I think they just wanted to tie the show in to the larger mythology and give fans what they’ve been missing out in the sequel trilogy
I agree. No one (at least from those I've talked too) is really interested in seeing Luke after that self contained scene. It was really just a glimpse of what could have been. Like some sort of closure for the sequel trilogy. I never really felt that it detracted from Din's departure from Grogu. But I do understand that it didn't really fit with the emotional arc of the scene and can feel disjointed.
That last part didn't work out though. What we've been missing out in the Sequel Trilogy is a trio of movies that actually advance from what has come before.
2 of the top 5 highest rated TV episodes ever on IMDb are from clone wars. Both from the final arc. While the mandalorian is great the clone wars is honestly much better, especially with how good the finale is. It’s a shame that the video creator didn’t acknowledge how well executed and written it was or how popular and successful it was with both critics and audiences.
Cheap fanservice that does not change the character always gets likes.
That just means it's popular. But I had the same reaction as this guy, my heart sank when I realized it was Luke. All of season 2 they sidelined the new characters for the popular brand characters like Ahsoka, Bo-Katan, and Boba Fett, and then they drive the final nail into the coffin with Luke Skywalker. This is worse than what they did to Ironman 2 in advertising The Avengers because at least Tony Stark still had a meaningful story that wasn't entirely eclipsed by the Avengers.
But that just proves my point: Hollywood, and Disney particularity, although not to be outdone by the likes of Sony and WB, just uses their IPs to continue to print money. And of course they do, any time they take risks they get lambasted by keyboard warriors. We are part of the problem, we are part of why Star Wars has been reduced to fan service. We trashed George Lucas, we trashed Rian Johnson, so the lesson Disney learns is to never risk it again and just plop out fan service.
Case in point, the new Spider-Man, as good as it is and as much as I loved it, is drowning in fan service because ultimately that's what makes the internet happy.
My issue with all of this is that we're continuing to phase out deep character drama and genuine works of art to the point where we are almost only getting the CGI fun fest. And while I like those movies, I also really enjoy movies that take risks and have more to say about their characters. And they're not even mutually exclusive, with movies like TLJ and BvS (UE, NOT that garbage theatrical cut) deconstructing long loved characters and challenging their status as a legend. Even if you don't like what those movies had to say, at least they had something to say, and that is much more interesting than simple fan service.
Mando s2 didn't have much to say other than, "We still own these characters, keep your D+ subscription so you can see them again!" And, that's really disappointing because the first season has so much heart and a single and uncompromised vision. S2 still has the heart, but it's drowned under misplaced fan service.
TLDR: This finale broke my metaphorical camel's back and shows that Disney's Lucasfilm truly isn't interested in telling new stories but in retreading old ground for the sake of the internet's approval and money.
Yeah, this perfectly sums up my feelings on the Luke Skywalker cameo. Whilst I did enjoy it at the time as I stopped to think about it later it sort of cheapened the whole season. I like gratuitous cameos as much as the next guy but I'm watching for the story of the Mandalorian, not the story of gratuitous cameos. The entire season was undermined by the fact that most of the time Djinn was a spectator in someone else’s story. We have the bo-katan episode, and then the Ashoka episode, in quick succession and Mando is main plot of each episode is the guest star's quest. Mando becomes the guest character.
I still enjoyed this season, but with hindsight I always had a feeling when watching certain episodes that there was something not quite right.
Rich Evens, one of the great philosophers of our times stated, most eloquently as is his way "Star Wars is Intellectually bankrupt" and it does show. I do actually think season 3 and 4 are going to be great, i also don't think Luke is going to play as big a role as most people think, he will be in season 3 and maybe 4. We will see the growth of Grogu and his inevitable rejection of the Jedi to be The Mandalore, not just A Mandalorian, The Dark Sabre Force wielding Mandalor who will in my prediction abdicate Leadership to Bo so he and his Father can do the only thing that has made Grogu happy in the entire series (go back and watch) being a Mando and having those adventures. Grogu wants his Jet pack.
„In episode 7 Han has plays a big role, in episode 8 Luke and they planned for Leia to have a big role in 9“
Rich Evans: „they gambled wrong on that one“ hysterical laughter
Did I read wrong, or did you just say Grogu would become mandalore? As in *THE* hero and leader of mandalore?
@@randomtommy5606 you read correctly, i am seeing years down the road. But yes i did say that, i stand by it as ridiculous as it does sound, and i am fully aware of how ridiculous it does sound at this time.
Personally I think everyone WANTS to move on from the skywalkers, it's just that everyone wants CLOSURE in a beloved character.
If they killed Luke in a manner that's not insulting such as becoming a bitter hermit. Everyone wanted luke to die with honor.
Hell the majority wants a Revan movie.
In defense of the Mandalorian ending, Luke was just a cool cameo, one that touched old school fans. After his scene everyone went back to talking about Mando and what the darksaber means with him now.
Edit: Nevermind. I wrote this at the tail end of your video and then you say that you never really cared about the Star Wars stuff so my post is useless I guess.
Yep, the Mandalorian cameo was just paying respect to a beloved character and trying to wipe away the bad taste of the sequel trilogy nonsense portrayal of the character. The sequel trilogy tried to tear down the old characters to build up the new characters rather than have the new character be able to stand on their own.
Luke should have been a minor character in the sequel trilogy, a mentor. Grandmaster of the New Jedi Order. There should have been loads of new Jedi, and there should have been room for kids to imagine themselves as Jedi right along with the new heroes the film introduced us too. Instead, we got a single Jedi all over again and the implication that the Jedi has been and forever will be a failed institution that should not be respected. The Jedi, the cool warrior monks that so many kids dreamed of being for decades.
I don’t get why people even think Luke needs closure. Episode Six closes things pretty definitively.
@@Necroskull388 episode six isn't the end though. They made him so vastly different from his character in episode 8 that it just ruined the character for old fans. Episode 9 tried to redeem him but the damage was already done. He betrayed Ben and tried to kill him even though Luke's gig has always been to find balance and try to understand the dark side along with the light. The Ben solo comics emphasized how bitter and how much worse he was compared to Mace Windu and Yoda in their close mindedness. That's why episode 8 baffled fans.
They're doing the same thing in boxing with the Tyson vs Jones fight lol. Yeah the WWE is an organization, they're not supposed to have a static central character and should evolve with the times. I think the Star Wars main heroes and villains are quintessential to that universe that's why its hard to make it a cross generational thing.
If you do a next Indiana Jones, for instance, and make it Shia Leboeuf, people will still long for Harrison Ford, and that wouldn't be cause of their inability to move on I think. If you take James Bond and say the next 007 is now 008 Frank Bond, it wouldn't work either. The universe in Star Wars is not the pivotal aspect of the story, the characters are more important.
I miss when star wars could be fun but still had a message, a theme. One of the many great things of the OT, something the PT tried so hard to come close to but ultimately buckled under it's own weight, and something most of the ST tried ignoring. I like fun space adventures, but Star Wars can be more than that, right?
The original trilogy actually has the LEAST things to say compared to the movies which came after. I don't know what you're talking about.
Absolutely but the one new movie that tried that was the most hated thing by the fans since the prequels.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to regarding the OT’s themes. The OT was about the struggle between good and evil as well as the redeeming power of love. Neither of those themes are particularly deep or rare. People only like the OT because the chemistry between Hamil, Ford, and Fisher was great. The plot, themes/messages, and dialogue were all average or slightly below average.
@@nicolasleroux5302 While I agree that those are the primary themes of the OT, there’s no denying the underlying commentary George gives of the real world. The Evil Empire, armored and advanced destroy planets and harm innocents as they come into their homes forcibly. It’s not the most complex criticism of imperialism or militarism but it’s still there, and when pointed out it’s hard not to notice.
People who support Rian Johnson's sloppy subversion seem to be making the case that for Star Wars to succeed it has to stop being Star Wars. Star Trek did this already. It gave up the central ideals that made Trek more than just another space show. And Star Trek is kind of a zombie brand-name franchise, now. The appearance of Luke in the Mandalorian was a heartfelt apology to the fans who loved Star Wars because they understood that it was once just an innocent movie about Luke. They remember the way Luke went from a reckless kid who always knew where he stood, who kept surprising the older, more seasoned Solo, and honed him into a profound badass. Rian Johnson didn't simply destroy Luke and the whole legacy, no, he didn't understand the Luke character at all. The Luke Skywalker in TLJ is someone played by Mark Hamil who is completely inconsistent with the guy fans like me loved in the OT.
Those shots weren’t mimicked originally, George tampered with the films afterwards, adding those in
Ah, were they special addition inclusions?
@@EyebrowCinema Ya, I believe it belongs at the start of Empire but gas been copied and pasted into Jedi by George
@@EyebrowCinema I take it back, it was recycled even in 1983
This is the third vid I’ve watched from you, and man these are some excellent video essays! So poignant while also being thorough and considerate A+ stuff.
Star Wars is a franchise stuck in a Catch 22. Ever since the release of Return of The Jedi, Star Wars has had very little room to move. It is a franchise tyrannized by its audience, held hostage by the whims of its fans. When they step outside of the approved narrative line, it’s audience becomes senselessly enraged. When it stays inside, the results aren’t much better. You could say the primary factor responsible for this are the long wait times between trilogies, always allowing for the past to calcify, and become held up as infallible, halcyon doctrine by those who profess to love it so. There is no hope for Star Wars, there is no way out. The only option this franchise has left is to end. Though, given Disney spent $4 billion to buy it, I doubt that’s ever going to happen.
I think it's also easy to overblow the online reactions as reflective of the general community, which isn't always the case. So a movie like The Last Jedi gets a reputation that everyone hates it even though the numbers don't really back that up.
Nobody really had a problem with The Force Awakens or Rogue One. Its just once the movies got progressively worse with The Last Jedi, Solo, and Rise Of Skywalker did the reception to Disney Star Wars become more venomous. This is coming from someone who saw Force Awakens in the Theater and didn't really mind it even though there were some flaws.
@@masterchiefwasdonedirty9705 waka flocka okay.gif
That's not entirely true. The Prequel Trilogy gave rise to some of the most beloved entries in the franchise: the KOTOR games, Clone Wars, The Clone Wars, Jedi Starfighter, Bounty Hunter, and more.
We want to see darth Vader and look in action. This is the perfect time to do it. Honestly the best Star Wars stories are KOTOR 1 and 2. Because if gives star wars true meaning.
A WWE guy and a cinephile? Wow
I forgot that I click on a Star Wars video till you started talking about Luke and the stormtroopers
*REJECT NOSTALGIA, EMBRACE COZY*
Nostalgia is stimulating; cozy is nourishing
As you age, as you become a man, it's best to put childish things away
Even though I was one of the many fans that loved Luke Skywalker’s cameo in the Mandalorian season 2 finale, you do bring up very good points. That being said, I think that should be the only time Luke Skywalker makes an appearance like that in the Disney+ live action shows. Except maybe Ashoka. An appearance from him in that show would be appropriate.
this was all good but caring about "the industry" over the people MAKING IT is BS. you are right, they can't move on, because that is the REAL industry at work. complain all you want that you "need fresh new talent to grow" but in the end everything dies and in the end these companies will be remembered for their "golden age" not the fringes and margins of their endeavors.
Luke's legacy as a character needed that scene at the end of season 2, after what was done to him in the Last Jedi.
All those people who are thinking SW should just be some fun adventure story have never been lectured by Kreia...
Trying to make a film popular by stuffing it with memberberries is like throwing up a delicious meal onto a plate and expecting it to be equally delicious.
PERFECT analogy.
You basically voiced my more recent thoughts not just on why I disconnected from STAR WARS after "The Clone Wars" series came out (until the Sequels brought me back), but also my concerns with "SPIDER-MAN: No Way Home", and other movies that are meant to be "Legacy" continuations.
I think no way home was a reboot for mcu spiderman, giving him a more comic accurate start. I mean when you think about it, the entire home trilogy feels like parkers origin story.
Not saying that no way home was intentional, but I think they realized that what parker is doing was going against what spiderman is fundemantally not.
@@silverprimus321boi9 To be honest, the only time I really liked watching the MCU Spidey was in "Civil War", "Infinity War", and "ENDGAME", because it seemed like that was the most comic accurate Spider-Man (without the Stark Tech of course). I used to think "Homecoming" and "Far From Home" portrayed Spider-Man as an airhead (unlike the comics and Tobey Maguire's Spidey).
However, after "No Way Home", I've grown to appreciate the arc his character goes through, even if I don't fully like the portrayal or how his story ends.
Looking back, I can see that MCU Spidey was meant to be seen in a different view, one that we may disagree with initially, but be grateful for because it kept core elements while being different enough.
For instance, Maguire had the Spider-Man origin story was presented with him being bit by a spider and being a hero.
Years later, despite the different villain, Andrew's Spider-Man was presented with the story of being bit by a spider and becoming a superhero.
Tom's Spider-Man was presented as already having passed that origin, though the principles that surrounded that origin are not fully ingrained until the end of "SNWH".
Don't get me wrong, all the actors who portrayed Spider-Man were great in their own eras. I just find it refreshing to get something different.
@@bridgerhibbert2993 yea it's good to get something different. I liked
tobeys take as confused young man making his way through life peter
And
Andrew's realistic traumatized from his parents leaving and his mistakes peter, which I think is the most realistic peter we've gotten.
Tom is personally a unique case of spiderman as hes basically integrated into a universe and is influenced by it. But I think that what they did by trying to make peter out to be a successor to stark wasn't the way to go. Maybe just make him a hero inspired by the avengers and leave it at that. His parkers personality was pretty good, and captured the young essence of peter. Problem though was that they forgot that parker was 14, to 16, to I think 18. So they left his personality remain as a 12 year old. At least until nwh
Ironically, I'd argue the major problem with Mando season 2 wasn't Luke returning. It was Ahsoka and Boba.
Ahsoka's episode felt like a cynical backdoor TV pilot (admittedly, filmed well), and look, I'm gonna be honest, she never should've survived past the rebels episodes. she should've died at Anakin's hand before the OT. The fact that all the tv shows are now going to lead into a fucking Thrawn shitstorm like the avengers has me absolutely disheartened. I guarantee book of Boba will end with some big teaser for Thrawn showing up. But now we've even opened up potential fucking time travel in star wars just to keep her alive.
Boba presents a different problem and massive missed opportunity. Boba's characterization was completely rewritten in the Mando. In the movies and in the Lucas-led TV show, Boba was the Anti-Han. He was a regular guy who hid his absolute ruthlessness and callousness. Whereas Han is the example of how a regular joe can become a hero, Boba (and Jango) are showing how regular people become monsters.
This was a big reason why I always hated his EU characterization with this sort of Mando Wank-off fest and one reason why I was excited to see what Filoni and Lucas had in mind for the warrior culture back in 2009.
But here is the major missed opportunity; Boba should've been the main villain of the Mando. Boba is the perfect antithesis of Djinn; unprincipled, money hungry, driven by raw pragmatism and selfishness. Here is the problem with his characterization in Mando; why does he hate the empire? the empire didn't fuck him over. The rebels/new republic did. Han did. The Jedi ALWAYS did. I thought, until the season finale, that they were leading into Boba backstabbing Djinn and the rest of the team, because why wouldn't he want to take vengeance against the Jedi and get access to the biggest bounty in the sector? This also would be a clever use of the fanservice: if we see Boba as this gunslinging unparraled badass, it would also do a good job of setting dread in the audience's heart leading into S3 that "oh fuck, boba being the bad guy now means that Djinn has to somehow beat THAT". And also, wouldn't that make Season 3 fucking awesome? we now are watching Mando V Mando so that Djinn can try to save Grogu. Boba backstabbing the team could've been a Game of Thrones level twist, and now we go into season 3 where, we like Djinn, but we also like Boba. On top of all that, Mando S3 now becomes the best kind of Western movie; the revenge western.
I wish I could Like this more than once, because it's so true. You've articulated one of the biggest itches I had with Boba but couldn't place why. As much as I like the character, he should have at the very least turned against Mando when he realised he was protecting a former/potential Jedi. I like that he has no allegiance to the Empire, but he also has no issue with it. Boba was always meant to be a villain, but because he's a fan favourite, he was made a hero. The conflation of badass and good is what's happened here. Its an issue in media that your version of the Boba/Mando story could have explored and fixed
All this said, its clear Boba's arc in The Clone Wars seems to humanise him, and I could see that now being viewed as, bent into, or teasing a soft redemption arc in retrospect
Shame that Filoni, once seen as the savior of the franchise with The Clone Wars, fell into Fan Service Hell himself.
You articulated a lot of my own feelings about the franchise really well. Its crazy how Disney now feels like people might not see films from a franchise they already like, lest there's previously-established characters they recognize in them. I have no idea where the Mandolorian can go from here in the third season without going deeper into the territory of legacy characters.
Din Djarin didn't just get sidelined by Luke Skywalker. He was sidelined the entire season with Boba Fett, Bo-Katan and Ahsoka Tano. To a point it didn't even feel like his show anymore, just a giant commercial for other Star Wars shows coming out.
Yeah season 1 was stronger because of its tight focus on mando and baby yoda
The fact they build up season 1 Din as ultimate mando soldier, only to have the rest of the more "normal" mandalorians take their helmets off? Consistency is key. Why the hell is Din the only mandalorian that gives a damn about the helmets? Feel so bad for Pedro, not even the writing cam tell us why he gets locked behind the helmet and nobody else does. One or the other Disney. You don't get both
The Last Jedi was just Rian realizing that the supposed brand new trilogy was just going to constantly stroke and rely heavily on the nostalgia of the series and wanted to stop that shit right in its tracks.
Rian Johnson: "No. No, you're still... HOLDING ON!!! Let go!"
The biggest problem between the Lucas era and the Disney era of Star Wars is that Lucas was not afraid to retread the growth of the hero. Anakin like Luke is talented and they both save the day but both do so as part of a group effort and both don't confront the evil of the story face to face until the second movie which sets up the chase as the heel crushes the babyface. Disney skips over scaling their main character's power level to show progressive growth in favor of an unstoppable 120lbs juggernaut. The Mandalorian while a bit better showing some progression has nonetheless slowly become an unstoppable juggernaut himself thanks to plot armor aka beskar steel. Blaster bolts literally have no effect on this guy, not even to knock him back. Fists are apparently more powerful than blasters now in the Star Wars universe. If you want change, here's what you do, you take from classic wrestling; the bad guys win in underhanded or unfair ways, you beat the crap out of the hero and have him or her suffer and struggle, you show the character progressing through small victories, and lastly you set up rematches.
The problem with the kind of analysis you're putting here is that it seems to treat a piece of fiction as some sort of abstract theme presentation. There's more to it than just "theme", and completing cycles. In a story with strong world building, internal coherence is as important as themes and abstract ideas. You can't run away from Luke Skywalker in a story shortly after the fall of the empire and a baby Yoda learning to use the force. It would be like a story of hobbits from the Shire without Gandalf. There are reasons inside the lore that make these recurring characters likely to appear, more than just nostalgia. Reasons that Johnson ignored and made his movie feel like a completely different world.
I couldn't agree more.
Dear Lord, this is legitimately one of the most succinct yet intelligent comments I've ever read in my life! I am stunned, it's that phenomenal of a comment!
Great take man! Refreshing to see somebody talk so in depth about star wars without frothing at the mouth lol
The frothing is exactly why I've been hesitant to make Star Wars videos in the past, haha.
@@EyebrowCinema schill
@@EyebrowCinema My apologies if my comments may be a bit long, but I don't think they're "frothing." It's a series with a lot to say.
The second you had a force sensitive baby that’s the same species as Yoda, luke was inevitable
I'll never be able to stop thinking about what could've been had IX actually followed up on what RJ added to the story rather than just making the entire movie about the legacy characters and then killing Han and Leia's son.
'politics have no place in star wars' but star wars was political from the beginning even if that doesn't make these movie's good
For the record, there are plenty of criticism agains The Last Jedi that isn’t vile or aggressive or hateful of anything of the sort. Just plain and simple critique of a movie that wanted to do a lot but failed at a lot of it, resulting in a mess of a movie.
Personally I have no problems with what The Last Jedi attempted to do. My problem is how poorly it was executed.
Personally I have no problems with what The Last Jedi critics attempted to do. My problem is how poorly it was executed.
@@HelghastStalker Indeed, I am no true scotsman…
Episode 1 came out the year I was born and when I was old enough to watch it I enjoyed every moment of it. As a five year old I may have been too young to understand the politics but I in no way found it boring.
How the hell are we getting Dark Troopers but no Kyle Katarn?!
I kinda get ya but I don’t know how you see that ending of Mandalorian and see something so different. I got to see my child hood hero be a hero one last time before I keep going to see what happens with that dark saber cause the show needed to grow else I get stuck watching these two hunting for a Jedi for however many seasons the show remains financially worth it. I don’t always agree with the cowboy hat, but the dude is the only one not riding of the fumes of the original trilogy when it comes to new stories
Ya know they ended the last three episode with familiar characters right, and how was looking losing his morality and destroying like 100 robots him being heroic, him not caring for droids is a ‘Luke’ thing to do now
@@HelghastStalker excuses excuses to have my Luke/death Vader scene
Great analysis, always keen to see what you make. 👍 But how much do you see this problem rooted in the SW fandom (ie. it's 'our' fault) versus how much is due to economic forces on the culture industry?
you really hit the nail on the head when describing how last jedi discourse can be utterly draining on the soul
You know why? Solo. I love solo but for some reason no one else does. Most critiques I see say it doesn’t feel like it’s a part of the universe like the other movies. This message gets sent to Disney and new we have to have everything mainstream connected
I've had the same thoughts for 4 years now. Spot on man
Although true I feel like if the sequel trilogy had offered a satisfying conclusion to the Skywalker's to the fan base at large we would be going towards a a trajectory of establishing new stories. You could like the sequels all you want but you can't deny the damage it has done to the brand and the need for that brand to repair itself nostalgia and respect toward legacy characters.
you really hit the nail on the head when describing how toxic last jedi discourse can be utterly frustrating to even listen to draining on the soul and make you hate the things you love
the song in 15:31 is breakbot-baby im yours for anyone who was wondering.
Wow, I'm an extremely difficlt person to impress, but I am very impressed by this breakdown. Can't help but wonder where the producer gained his film degree...
Thank you for your well-presented thoughts in this essay.
I kinda saw The Mandalorian as an effort to appease nostalgia-seeking fans anyway. That it was Luke that came for Grogu, just felt like a cherry on top for me. It didn't have to be him but it was and it makes sense, felt satisfying to me, and now The Mandolrian can move on and encounter other facets of Star Wars nostalgia.
One of the most damning criticisms of The Last Jedi was that "it just didn't feel like Star Wars" - which sounds like very limiting thinking of what Star Wars can be. Some fans have taken The Mandalorian (especially the appearance of Luke) as a way of rebuking the sequel trilogy and The Last Jedi. But I don't think Lucasfilm is thinking in those terms and the recent slate of announcements seems to suggest they can and will do both - pay homage to the past and build forwards into untold futures.
Well said, and thank you.
Can they? Will they? The state of Lucasfilm isn't what it once was.
Okay I agree that the character relationship is the core of Mandolorian, I mean weird parent child relationships (especially highly skilled person adopts child and now has to be XYZ job and parent), BUT I think you just don't understand how grand fantasy as a genre works. It's a gigantic, overly gigantic world, and characters like Luke are wayfinding points with big spheres of influence. Luke is the current wayfinding point (at that point in time of the series) for jedi stuff, so if Grogu was gonna do jedi stuff Luke would be involved. Its not like they randomly picked Luke to show up because its Luke, they picked him to show up because he is the current jedi master looking for force sensitive kids to create a new order of jedi. The story always was going to go there.
It's like being surprised when Al Capone is mentioned or shows up in a mafia movie.
Trouble is when they did move on, everyone got really mad and they brought back the guy who used nostalgia as a crutch
In my opinion, bringing Legacy elements to new stories should only be used to give them some base and connection to the universe, the thing is that it ain't needed about 70% of the time. I did enjoy Luke's participation as it expands that mythos built between the end of the original films and the sequels plus gives total evidence of the downfall TLJ managed to expose, but it is true that Mando didn't grow that much in Season 2 as a character. Regarding the rest of the franchise, I do am a TLJ fan, even with its flaws and that also goes to TFA, understanding it as a nostalgia fest but at the same time, opening the galaxy to a whole new generation, just as the prequels did in my time as a little boy.
On the other hand, TROS is practically trash with some neat ideas here and there, what was built and conceptualized in TLJ, bashed all over.
We can expect a lot from this new batch of Star Wars media, but it kinds feels like walking through thin ice.
Well said. I think the pro-wrestling analogy works well here. Bringing back the nostalgic stars isn't inherently bad, but it's usually best when it helps tell a new story or put a new star over.
I always laugh when people call the last jedi "new/innovative" for doing shit the EU did years ago.
"It has a Jedi who's not a Skywalker!!" Oh you mean like Nomi Sunrider Revan the Jedi Exile Zayne Carrick Kyle Katarn Corran Horn Jax Pavan Qui Gon Jinn Obi Wan Kenobi Quinlan Vos or ANY AND ALL OF THE PREQUEL JEDI.
"It criticizes the Jedi!!" You mean like how KOTOR II ruthlessly raked the Jedi and Sith over the coals for the sheer destruction their fighting causes? How the villain of that game believed the only way to ensure lasting peace was to destroy the force itself? How about when Shatterpoint posited that it was impossible for the Jedi to win the Clone Wars because the idea of waging war itself was antithetical to the Jedi philosophy and allowed the Dark Side to foster. The KOTOR comics included a storyline that was eerily, EERILY similar to Luke attempting to kill Ben, to the point I would accuse Rian Johnson of outright plagiarism if I suspected he was cool enough to even know there were KOTOR comics at all. Kylo Ren is kind of just shitty Haazen now that I think of it.
Generally, the entire ST is just a hodgepodge of various EU storylines, in particular Dark Empire, Legacy of the force and the Legacy comics, poorly reheated in the hopes the general audience that are too lazy to read won't notice. Everything """original""" TLJ is credited with was done better in the EU.
It might just be they all don’t have that original of storylines(other then the eu being first) when choosing these subjects and topics to expand on
I do prefer legends but this reintroduces the ideas to the mainstream.
I remember when someone from Red Letter Media said something like this. That star wars can’t do anything new otherwise it doesn’t feel like Star Wars.
Maaan. I know it fits, but I didn't have to see The Fiend taking that L again.
George Lucas could never move on and he created the damn thing.
As someone who hasn't seen any Star Wars media, things like these make it very difficult for me to get into it: same with superhero comics. Why bother when it's never going to move on?
Star Wars did move on and "fans" had a shitfit because it wasn't just like the originals. This video is silly. Just watch Eps 1-6 and Clone Wars and then end Star Wars there. All the Disney films and tv shows are terrified of backlash and allergic to being creative, it's Disney who can't move on. Lucas moved Star Wars on very often and to the dislike of many so called fans who just wanted nostalgia pandering. Eps 1-3 are literally nothing like Ep's 4-6, they aren't bad at all, just super different in literally every way.
Ha, Marvel and DC are in much worse situations.
@@123mandalore777 You're not quite right. The sequels were a rehash of the original trilogy. They didn't move on so much as they redid the originals while crapping on the originals at the same time.
@@Nonamearisto Reread my post dude. I just said Star Wars moved on under Lucas with the PT and Clone Wars, but then Disney took a step backwards and is afraid to move on from the OT. The ST is so regressive and it's Disney fault as well as the people who complained that the PT wasn't like the OT.
@@123mandalore777 I might have replied to the wrong person there. Sorry. I got your point. For what it's worth, Star Wars needs to strike a balance between continuity and change, and neither the alleged sequels nor the PT really hit it that well, but the PT did a much better job.
Remember those Luke reveal reaction videos?
I really didn't get the excitement, I expected nothing less from Star Wars.
The internet has almost killed my love for Star Wars but its videos like these that remind me why I love the franchise so much.
Remember Knights of the old republic? The games, the books...it was something entirely different from the movies in a new setting with new characters. It was so refreshing, now we only see the same people again and again, doing the same things..
Yeah, those game trailers are better than the movies
Don't forget the comics.
It's a reckless and stupid idea to dismiss the wisdom of the past, especially when thousands of years of wisdom are at our fingertips. Yes, there are some aspects of tradition which are wrong, but that's no excuse to throw out what is still good and important. Rian Johnson's idea is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It is a very rare situation in which the past offers no answers or guidance, even if such guidance usually has to be coupled with new thought. History never truly repeats, but it often rhymes.
No, that is litteraly the opposite of the massage. Yoda litteraly says that the massage is learing from the past and not throwing the past out. This is why Rey keeps the books and Yoda only burns the dead tree symbolicly without the books in it. "Burning the past" is the massage of the villian, the massage of the movie is littearly the opposite.
I do not want to be mean but it is kinda insane how people do not get that, it is basically spelled out in the movie.
@@bebo2629 The problem is, no one learns anything from the "sequels".
Great essay! Thoughtful analysis. Nicely done.
The only Mandalorian episode I really enjoyed was "The Passenger," because it was built on something other than the marketability of baby Yoda, the perceived coolness of the Mandalorians as a mythologized group, or callbacks to something from the original series. It felt like it was actually trying to tell a weird, imaginative little story with new, interesting creatures and a different feel than we have recently seen from Star Wars.
I think you should watch clone wars. It would maybe change your opinion on what can be done with star wars.
The clone Wars as great tho
The Last Jedi already proved to the world (if The Force Awakens didn't) that Star Wars can't move on under the current leadership.
The Sequel showrunners know they have nothing but spectacles, and they know the audience their spectacles are meant to attract won't stick around, so they involved legacy characters in their spectacles in a bid to force approval out of old fans, the only source of meaningful praise these showrunners could hope for. And just like Mark Hamill tried to hint with "you gotta think about the fans", deconstructing what isn't yours to deconstruct and the old fans will immediate catch on to your ploy.
At least the Mandalorian knows who can be pleased and is honest about it.
The only hope for S3 is to let Mando and Cobb Vanth be the space husbands I know they can be.
I want to say that I respectfully disagree. Luke's placement in the story of The Mando was fitting I felt, afterall, Luke was in the years following ROTJ trying rebuilding the jedi order, and realistically in hindsight, was probably the only Jedi that made sense to come after Grogu. I agree with some of the points you made, I definitely think media and especially Star Wars banks to much on fanservice and nostalgia. However, not all fanservice is bad, as long as it doesn't override the main point and direction of a project. Din Djarin and Grogu's story isn't over, and I don't believe Luke Skywalker's appearance derailed any of it. You could make the agruement that Star Wars, being a 40 year old franchise, has to include or at least tie in with some of it's older content, Luke Skywalker being in my opinion, the poster boy more or less for most of Star War's history. I'm interested what they are going to do with the Darksaber storyline, and where that goes. Great video though, I always enjoy them whether or not I agree with everything.
While Luke Skywalker's placement in the story makes sense in that perspective, I think he could also have been left out. Hearkening back and making links to other things in the Star Wars universe and building on stuff from the past is cool and good, but not when it overshadows the present. Bringing in a main character from multiple main Star Wars films does that. Stuff like the Ahsoka episode does not overshadow, but does make links, and that's still cool! I don't think that would've been noteworthy as a possibly bad thing if Luke Skywalker hadn't shown up.
@@DeyaViews That's fair, but I guess my disagreement lies with the notion Luke overshadowed everything the Mando had to offer. Most people including myself thought it was a cool cameo. Din Djarin and Grogu's moment before the end of the episode was the the highlight, I'd go as far as to say Din and Grogu are at this moment the two most popular Star Wars characters. Luke and R2 showing up was pandering to nostalgia, of course, but is that a bad thing? Part of the challenge of making new Star Wars content is you have to keep it interesting while also keeping it familiar. Multiple generations at this point have grown up with Star Wars, and I felt have Luke there at the end was a treat to the og fans more then anything. In anycase, I quite enjoyed the episode, but that's just my opinion and everyone will have different feelings on it.
I want to ask you so many questions, great video but I'm curious
1. Isn't it good baby Yoda left, fulfilling what the plot was leading too (aka not turning into a Scooby-Doo adventure where the conflict is just a rando in a mask)
2. Do you object to any jedi showing up in the show and is it because of that "feeling small" you talked about because I don't think it's bad to give your main character a dose of humble
3. Lastly I hated the last jedi, but funny enough I liked everything you liked about it, there was just enough other stuff to make me disappointed and the last movie kept everything I hated but then didn't bring any of the little good you mentioned about the last jedi. And I fear they may do similar to mando
1. Of course, Mando can be Baby Yoda's caretaker forever or he won't have his own story.
2. That's pure nonsense from the author of this video, Mando didn't even think/understand Jedi were real, he basically met a living legend, his world got bigger, not smaller.
3. The objective of TLJ was to clear out the old to make place for the new, and there was nothing new, so it's just an incompetent, empty, nihilistic movie that everyone, including in this video, makes up silly theories to justify.
@@Delance1 mando lived up to his story and goal more in season 1, his world didn’t get smaller but the galaxy got smaller at least ahsoka isn’t a well known face, and your obviously projecting your nihilism on to the movie as you seek no new characters
@@benjaminwatson7868 What nihilism? I'm no TLF fan.
@@Delance1 did I say that
@@Delance1 TLJ was not nihilistic at all. It literally ends with Luke proclaiming that the Jedi will not die out with him and there's still hope for the future. "Let the past die" is not the message of TLJ, it's what Kylo Ren, the fucking VILLAIN, says. HE'S THE ONE WHO IS WRONG.
I'm only 3:52 minutes in, but I want to say, thank you for pointing this out. It felt empty. And although it was surprising, it wasn't in a triumphant way. I mean Mandalorian is Din Djarin's story. Not Luke's. So to have it end the way it did, separating Father and son, felt, exactly that. Empty. I felt weird thinking that, because of my appreciation for Luke and for the ending of the season. But man, I appreciate your clarity on these video essays and looking past your enjoyment of a series or genre, to dig for more.
Thing is Star Wars is about the Skywalkers. The issue is Disney fucked up 7-9 by not using Lucas's outlines. The only other bloodline that holds a candle to the Skywalkers is the Shan bloodline.