Oh man you beat me to this one!! People go nuts when I cover these statistics. People seem to completely dismiss objective evidence on this topic. Drives me bananas. Sharing this on my community section and forum.
I think the most dangerous potential issue is having an improper conductor size or not using a continuous duty EV receptacle. Many NEMA 14-50 outlets overheat and are not designed to run at their current rating all day. Need to spend good money for the ones that are rated correctly. That's the biggest issue I have found. And it never seems to be mentioned. But people are worried about other things that are statistically not a big deal at all. It's strange
Awesome! This is the greatest compliment I could get from one of my favorite TH-camrs. I just built my first solar/battery system last month. I lot of my decisions and learnings were sourced from your channel ✊
@@thelimitingfactor No way you did!!?? That is awesome!! And thanks man :D I appreciate the work and information you put into the videos! Youre one of my favorite channels, and I am not subscribed to many at all haha
Today’s truck fire closed melbourne to Sydney highway. 28 fire trucks hundreds of volunteers responding to the subsequent grass fire . A truck fire at entrance to a tunnel in Baltimore, cctv showing rivers of flaming petroleum and in South Africa a horrific multi car fire accident.
@@catsgam6442 I don’t know any ev owners whose primary purchasing reason was to save the planet. I just bought a diesel tractor and yesterday paid A$1k to service the Land Rover. I can afford to keep it as our EV has cost bugger all to run as we charge from home for free. We are in a decades long transition.
About those scooter and ebicycle fires. Market dynamics drive the way EVs are built and sold today, so the best cells get used in the largest, most potentially dangerous, but profitable automotive packs. This leaves the rejected cells still being on the market, since no one wants to scrap newly built product if not absolutely necessary. Those lesser quality cells are being sold to that secondary market, I believe, and those cheaper packs are also less stable.
That largely depends on the battery builder, there are very high quality cells that get used in things other than cars. Cordless tools, for example, can get some very high quality cells in them (mostly the high quality name brands sold in physical stores, you're rolling the dice purchasing any batteries on amazon or ebay) Greenworks tools even sells E-bikes that take either their 80 volt or 60 volt battery packs for outdoor power equipment. It's also possible for a regular person to purchase top of the line Samsung or Molicell battery cells and build their own battery pack. (I DO NOT recommend doing that unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing!) Most E-bike fires are caused by cheap batteries that are built poorly and often lack proper safety measures, or by damaged packs. If you're buying an E-Bike, I recommend doing your research and buying from a reputable dealer or direct from the manufacturer on their website, Amazon and Ebay really don't do enough to stop sketchy products and sellers and their sites are riddled with clone and knockoff bikes and batteries that don't meet safety standards. (don't even consider buying from Temu, Aliexpress or Wish, they are even worse). Only use the included charger and don't leave the battery on the charger for a long time once it is full or let it charge unattended. I use a timer switch to shut my charger off once it's done. Make sure you properly recycle your battery when it reaches end of life, and if you should ever see, hear, or smell any signs the battery could be about to burn, get it on a nonflammable surface like concrete if you can do it safely (preferably with a long tool like a shovel, or move the bike itself while holding it as far from the battery as possible) call the fire department IMMEDIATELY, and get away from it. A bucket of sand is probably the best option if you need to try to put that fire out yourself, but don't put yourself in danger by getting too close.
Got my model y delivery this weekend and most of both mine and my wifes families are anti ev with nothing more than watching traditional new if even that so when i get the earful i will be definitely be forwarding this video i couldn't be more thankful that its out thank you!
According to USA insurance data for every 100,000 EV's 25 will catch fire whilst for every 100,000 ICE vehicles 1,532 will catch fire, so ICE vehicles catch fire 61x more often than EV's
and how many of these were caused by fuel/engine fires and not electrical wiring, etc.? Oh, yeah, all the reasons for the fire are counted together => unrealistic results more precisely a bullshit!! An ICE vehicle can also catch fire for other reasons too. We are looking for the engine/fuel to blame for the fire but these statistics do not exist!! 80+% of ICE fires is due to electrical wiring/parts or poor maintenance. It's not as common for a fire to be caused by the engine or fuel as some people think!! For example, there was a defect in the seat adjustment motor... and some cars caught fire, but that has NOTHING to do with ICE vehicles. This result and all the others are bullshit!
Image when the Tesla can drive itself out of a structure that catches on fire.....or when it can drive itself away from other vehicles/structures when it detects an internal fault which may trigger its own internal fire (and call emergency crews for you).
Quality and quantity of evidence has little affect on beliefs, coherence is king. Basically, telling a compelling story is more important than the data included for the average person. That being said I love the approach you bring to the table. The data is important for people who want to think and change based upon it.
According to NHTSA, ICE cars catch fire at a rate of 60x that of electric cars. That's ALL EV's, not just Tesla and it's reported per billion miles, not number of cars.
Fact. Cheap EV insurance. My revivifier was quoted $987/yr for a ‘25 Model 3 and $2400/yr for a new Civic (in Nova Scotia CAD). Agent explained, “it’s about risk. We pay out less for Teslas on accidents, fires, and especially… THEFT” ❤
@@thelimitingfactor battery fires are worse than gasoline fires even if gasoline is more flammable its easier to put out. so yes battery fires are more dangerous than gasoline fires.
@@billybobbob3003 uhm your comment lacks so much nuance and context. You just parroting mainstream media click bait articles. I won't argue more if you can't even watch the video you are commenting on. Statistically you are so much less likely to die or be injured in an EV, adjusted for amount of cars on roads. It's a no brainer safety wise.
Based on the Munro video I thought wouldn’t see this until Jan. You can imagine how happy I was when it popped up in my feed!! Thank you so much for this; you are awesome!!!
I think, as you say, a lot of people aren't aware that they could well be better off buying an EV, they just don't have the accurate data on things like safety, charging, cost of ownership etc. Many knowledgeable people say things confidently to me like the battery pack will degrade and be very expensive to replace or it'll cost the same to fuel or repairs will be expensive. I see those statement as evidence of the success of legacy ICE in being able to play down the EV advantages and amplify disadvantages.
Hey, love your content and I’ve been watching for years. If I may, I’d like to add some insight in regards to firefighting aspect. I work in Santa Clara county, heart if Silicon Valley. There are tons of EVs on the road obviously. ICE vehicle fires are a common occurrence but I can say that after 11 years working there I’ve never been to a BEV fire, except those that were parked in a garage that was on fire. I think that while these ideas for extinguishing and controlling a BEV fire sound simple and easy to implement the opposite is in fact true. I liken it to how every year there is some new battery that’s just on the horizon that will revolutionize EVs, but it never comes to fruition. Why? Real world factors kill it. Supply chain difficulties, manufacturing requirements, mass production issues, etc. That’s how I see it with the options proposed in the video. Great on paper but not realistic. First even if those were all implemented a fire engine would have to be on scene for much longer than an ice vehicle fire. 30 minutes and a fire company can have a ice vehicle extinguished and be back in service. Getting a battery electric vehicle submerged in sand is going to take hours making something like that happen would be a monumental task. A high pressurized water jet being punctured into the battery is another constraint. I won’t pretend to know the specifics of that, but my first question is seeing as it’s from Sweden I assume it’s based off of their firefighting capabilities. In Europe, they use high-pressure systems whereas in the United States we use much lower pressures. Also a tool that size is not going to easily fit on any firefighting apparatus. Our rigs are already full. There is no spare space so for something as large as that device for something as rare as a battery electric vehicle fire it simply would not be carried on every single rig. So there would have to be some centralized apparatus that does carry that piece of Equipment and then a plan in place for how to access a container that the vehicle can be put in and filled with sand. This process would take hours while that fire engine company is now not in service protecting the citizens in their first due. Also, this wouldn’t work in accidents off the road, on their side, into a ravine, etc. A flat paved surface, sure, but not what many emergency scenes look like. The fire blanket would only extinguish the vehicle components in the cab, but wouldn’t extinguish the battery obviously as the chemistry of the battery does not require oxygen in the air to self sustain. Our most current strategy involves attempting to extinguish, and if it isn’t successful then to let it burn out. It’s simply faster and safer Like I said, this is a very rare issue, especially compared to ICE fires. But it will require more technical approach and much more time commitment from responding agencies. Anyway, this is just my observation as a person who considers themselves very experienced in vehicle fires and firefighting in general. If you’d like to ask questions feel free.
@pattognozzi I know that at least one European Fire Department can bring a tank to an EV fire and simply drop the EV in. I thought that it might be possible to circle the EV with a temporary tank as can be done for flood control and fill that. Once the battery cools off, you can pump the water away after to minimize any contamination.
@@grahammonk8013The idea is sound but in practice it’s difficult to implement. In a flat parking lot, sure. Crammed in a parking garage on the 3rd floor, or on a slope off the road, crashed and on its side, etc. These all are scenarios that it would no longer work in. Not to mention it’s a rare occurrence. So this specialized resource would be few and far between to get on scene.
It would be great if we could also seperate LFP and NMC cell vehicles. Id guess there isnt enough data yet to support this. Great video - its going into my favourites.
It appears the main batteries in later EVs are lately well protected against fire, however the new 48V Lithium Ion batteries have now introduced a new fire hazard in a crash. There have lately been several incidents where the 48V batteries catch fire after a severe crash.
Just had an argument with my father in law about this video. His points I didn't have answers for is the age of fleets. He thinks the gas car fires are much older and the EVs are newer and therefore the data isn't comparing apples to apples. He's not wrong. Any data on that? He also says it's not common for for fire departments to be well equipped with to fight the fires that do occur. Especially in smaller countries where the departments might not be as well funded. If you need special tools that car is going to burn till it's done.
No good data on that yet, and it's a fair point However, it doesn't negate a lot of what I said in the video. For example, the peak heat release rate and the time that battery powered vehicles give you exit. But thinking practically from an engineering perspective and what we're seeing anecdotally: It's actually the newest vehicles that catch on fire due to some sort of manufacturing defect. If a battery pack is manufactured well, there's not a whole lot that can go wrong because the battery cells are entombed in the battery pack. The exception is if the vehicle ends up being submerged in water! There's Gore-Tex valves in the battery pack that allow for pressure changes while limiting water ingress. But, they haven't found a way to completely protect the battery pack from being submerged in water yet for long periods of time. Either way, there's nothing wrong with letting the car burn until it's done. It's an acceptable strategy. This is what a lot of fire departments are doing. According to the firemen, the real issue when doing that is the public perception 😁 ... That's because people think the firemen can't put out the fire over that day long period, but really they are doing it intentionally
@@thelimitingfactor for him the main concern stems from a family member who's new I3 burned down their garage and house. There's a lot of situations where letting it burn is just not an option. So I understand his concern although it may be rare, if there's no data to show that a new or well maintained gas car is more likely to burn down than a new EV, there's no convincing him.
Very good video !! Ice cars seem to be getting more dangerous with fires if anything before you had one fuel pump @60psi now most new cars run two fuel pumps one @60psi the other around 2000@ psi with plastic lines for direct injection crazy!! I ve read that hybrid are the worst for car fires.
Great research. For those safety crash info we might add that EV crash fully live. ICE get crashed without all fluids. No hot engine and no fuel. Those did not make the same results in real live. impacts.
Most of your videos are excellent, but this one is even better than that. I will be showing this to my 12-year-old son, partly because it contains lots of valuable information, and partly because it demonstrates that research, combined with excellent critical-thinking skills can yield important insights.
Dear Jordan, I would appreciate some data about your guess that older vehicles would get more often into accidents and catch fire than newer ones. Thank you!
I have a 2018 Model 3. According to the manual my car does not have mechanical releases on the back doors. Newer models have rear door release cords hidden under a rubber cover at the bottom of the door storage bin. It is unconscionable to have door latches dependent on the electrical system remaining intact after a collision. Rear seat passengers are likely to be friends of the owner and unfamiliar with the hidden cord release. Imagine having to escape over the front seats with broken bones after an accident.
Great analysis once again Jordan! In one of my arguments pertaining vehicle fire, I always challenge those negative narrator with this: “for ICE car, you are literally carrying a tank of explosive behind it, aren’t you not concerned about it? What happen when that tank is exposed to fire? Even a tiny spark can cause a sudden release of extremely high heat and energy (aka explosion), and you will have no time to respond to evacuation at all” The truth is that most EV OEMs are designing the battery pack to withstand a minimum of 5mins at high heat before thermal runaway takes place. Even if thermal runaway takes places, the insulating materials must withstand burning of 1000-1400C for greater than 10mins before giving in to prevent fire from spreading. You are so right. Unfortunately, the mainstream media simply do not have any clue on how battery pack is designed and simply go by unvetted news…
They think they don't trust batteries but are surrounded by them. Everybody's phone, laptop, Bluetooth box and so on have to get charged daily... there are literally billions of batteries anyways
16:20 When 2 ICE cars collide front to back the rear car usually takes most of the damage because the trunk in the front car has a floor which provides strength through cross bracing. This will allow a car with a frunk to have similar crashes performance.
Using well renowned cylindrical cells with module/pack design preventing single cell propagation reduces the risks considerable. Also designing BMS following functional safety standards further reduces the risk of operating cells outside spec. Prismatic NMC cells are trickier to prevent propagation with. I’m not a Tesla fan but believe they follow or exceed industry best practice here.
Is there any data on this? With it being the last layer of defence, I'm guessing it rarely ever mattered but I'd be interested to see if we can observe a noticeable uptick in the rates of fires going from cylindrical to prismatic and pouch cells.
@@Luka_3D I don’t think the rate will go up with prismatic cells but potentially, when it happens, the consequence might be more severe since it will be harder to stop it at cell level. That’s at least my experience working with both types.
A GREAT REPORT🧐 JORDAN FACTUAL ,OBJECTIVE AND REASONABLE …THANK YOUR SUPPORTERS AND U-TUBE MEMBERS FOR THEIR CONTINUED SUPPORT🤗🙏IN EDUCATING THE PUBLIC 💚💚💚
I'll preface this by saying that gas vehicles are definitely better for some people. I was talking to my friend the other day and told him he should stick with a big, gas powered truck for his use case. With that said: 1) If you do the typical 12-15k/yr, charging times won't be an issue. 90% of your charging will likely be at home if that's your use case. For the other 10% (or whatever) that you're going on road trips, you'll likely be fine as well if you're on Tesla's network (they have the only great charging network). That's because most people will stop to pee or grab a drink or eat or stretch their legs every three hours. By the time that's finished (20-30 minutes) your vehicle will be ready for another 3 hours of driving. 2) Battery lifespan is typically at least 300k miles (1000-1200 cycles X by a range of 250-350 miles) 3) Battery replacement cost is a fair point. However, most vehicles have a 8 year/100k mile warranty on the powertrain or more. Battery costs are falling, and the cost of replacement for the battery is expected to be cheaper than an engine by 2030.
Thanks for putting this out. My next vehicle is an EV unfortunately I own a Honda Element and the utility and reliability is making it challenging to switch currently.
@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck I have ,but I need a vehicle that can tow around 3,000 lbs and can fit a water heater, dryer, washer or other large appliances.
Been in the EV industry for some years now and yes the narrative around battery fires is media dominated, thus in need of clarification. Tesla and others have been supportive with fire companies, but not to a large degree. What would be constructive is to focus the development of ev battery fire control rather than letting thousands of fire chiefs and startup companies figure it out for themselves. In all truth, the federal government should have appointed the United States Navy, the most advanced fire fighting technology organization in the world, to work out solutions and get them to fire chiefs. I am not going to do the "physics breakdown" here, be my guest though. If there is an ev fire in or near an occupied structure or on the side of a busy highway the fire company needs an effective solution and a fast one. If a gas car is on fire you hit it with water or foam and it is out....a proven solution. If an EV battery is on fire water or foam isn't that effective thus the discussion. "EV fires reignite" ...up until a year ago many fire companies weren't aware of this nor tactics to manage it. "A correctly manufactured and sized fire tarp can stop a battery fire in about two to four minutes." As long as the responders can keep the tarp in place, the issue is somewhat in control, but these tactics are still in development. "Pumping thousands of gallons onto an EV battery is not an effective tactic as it takes too long and uses too much water." Along with a correct fire tarp it can be far more effective. One fire Captain when dealing with a constantly reigniting ev fire came up with a solution. The car was next to a river, so he just had one of his trucks push it into the water and the fire stopped. A South Korean fire company has a kiddie pool like structure that they assemble around a burning ev....they then fill it with water. Immersing the battery works....sort of. Chemical fires are hot and different from gas fires and fire chiefs are learning this the hard way. Another enterprising fire company got a nearby backhoe to dig an ev sized hole next to the burning ev, pushed the car into the hole and filled it with water....problem more or less solved for the moment. My point with this is to get the issue out of the political realm and help the 22,000+ fire chiefs in the US deal with their next EV fire. Theory along with the statistics about gas vehicle fires and vehicle safety are of little use to a fire company responding to an EV fire in a dangerous situation for the first time in let's say...later this evening. These battery fires require a safe and effective solution that is, by the way, completely different from the solution used to put out gas vehicle fires.
What are the causes of EV manufactural fires. What are preventative actions that can be taken to reduce manufactural fire risk. Oh; you covered that Nice vlog
Root cause of spreading fires is flame propagating material like Polypropylene used for protecting electric wires or as insulation. For details you can see my video ' how to prevent vehicle fire'
8:24 Just a note, the vehicle that started the London airport fire was a diesel hybrid that may have had a battery fire, so maybe not the best ICE vehicle fire example to use...
@thelimitingfactor that's unfortunate that other manufacturers are moving that way. Just seems like something that didn't need to be reinvented. Just adds another layer of confusion in an emergency situation like the rear manual handles being buried under the door pocket. All to save money on the assembly line.
I agree, they should make them more accessible. I wouldn't say it's for profit though. Rather, engineers and autists get obsessed with simplicity sometimes and then have to course correct.
A lot of the danger to occupants in EV fires isn't even the battery, it's the current fad for electrically actuated door locks. If you lose electrical power, which you could if the main or auxiliary battery self immolates or for a range of other reasons, you're trapped inside a burning car. "Hurr durr backup door handle" is irrelevant in a panic situation, the mental state of panic shuts down a lot of your brain and reduces your capacity for complex tasks like finding a screwdriver to pop the panel out of the bottom of the door pocket so you can reach the backup door release. There is a new, unexpected danger: lithium auxiliary batteries. The Piedmont Cybertruck fire is thought to have been caused by an auxiliary battery getting smashed in the crash and igniting the car as the main battery back didn't catch fire.
By coincidence, Gary Comerford of the audio podcast "EV Musings" covered EV fires in his latest episode no.236. He referenced similar sources especially the analysis by EV Fire Safe of Australia and closely mirrored this video. Both yours and his are worth bookmarking to counter all the tiresome repetitive FUD. [edit] I'll just add EV Musings selects single topics to focus on in each episode and mainly addresses the UK EV market although often is of wider interest. I personally sponsor a diferrent EV podcaster but Gary's is good one.
Chevrolet is the main offender when it comes to BEV fires. It is because they use pouch cells rather than cylindrical cells. They are the company that said don’t park your EV in the garage and have discontinued the bolt and its predecessor the volt.
7:35 the HRR is dependent on how many cells initiated the fire. If you ignite one cell, it may or may not cascade and may burn out before cascading. If you ignite multiple cells simultaneously, you may overwhelm the cascading protections and get a much hotter fire. This data needs to demonstrate if/whether the ignition function was truly equivalent. This is a know problem in Li-ion test procedures including UL9540A.
Just have to correct you on something. The "diesel " that burnt through the concrete floor of a parking station in London, it was a hybrid. The battery caught fire.
Any proof of that? All indications are that it was Diesel. People saw sideways flames and assumed it was lithium ion, but it was windy day that blew the flames horizontally. th-cam.com/video/KlSiDT7ll94/w-d-xo.html
@thelimitingfactor it was reported as a hybrid range rover. "M guy" , "auto expert" have already done stories on this very subject. Diesel would never have gotten hot enough to go through the concrete. Nothing against you, but the media omitts those details in their reporting.
@@davidepps267 I reviewed those channels before I did this video. There's no way that a single EV battery fire is going to generate enough heat to collapse a parking garage floor/ceiling A parking garage floor/ceiling has an enormous amount of thermal mass With a single vehicle fire, you'll get some spalling and some structural damage. But it's highly unlikely to collapse the floor or ceiling. On that note, it looks like you ignored the point in my video where I said that the total amount of heat generated for an ICE or EV fire is roughly the same That is, as the video that I linked above explains, it was a diesel fire that spread through wind to other vehicles. After hundreds or thousands of vehicles caught fire, then there was enough heat to collapse the floor Start thinking critically. Just because a channel says something and agrees with your bias, doesn't mean it's true. The arguments that I put together here are far superior to the arguments in those videos But you ignore them because it doesn't align with your bias.
@thelimitingfactor I have no bias, I simply stated other channels have reported the same incident as a hybrid battery fire . Do with that as you wish but a diesel 4wd does not spontaneously combust when parked, let alone have enough heat to burn through concrete.
@davidepps267 No, they speculated, they didn't report It was their opinion, and as far as I can tell you've produced no facts to support that and neither have they. And yes, of course a vehicle can spontaneously combust, what are you on about? All it takes is a fuel or oil leak. This happens all the time. My dad had to put out a vehicle fire once in the grocery store parking lot that he worked at. The vehicle was just sitting there and caught on fire. As for the concrete, I already explained that above. Continuously repeating the same thing despite counter arguments against it makes you look like a hack. Do with that information what you will.
Jordan, you are on… Fire! This video is not only fascinating, but also a public service. I speak with people On a regular basis, who are clearly not deeply into EVs, yet seem to know all of the talking points media puts forth in terms of FUD. It bothers me as a Tesla investor a bit, but not a huge amount. It bothers me Far more when I realize the lives that are ruined, because people use inferior technology out of fear, ironically, for their safety. Almost 6 years ago, I bought my last new car and it was a ICE vehicle, A 2019 Honda fit. I’m happy with the car and I’ve had no problems with it whatsoever but my next car will be most likely a Tesla because when I bought the Honda fit Teslas were still very expensive and the technology was still rapidly improving.. I also know a lot more about the technology now thanks to your videos and others. Anyway, these videos help me educate people, or at the very least, point them in the direction of useful well documented information even if they don’t actually go and read, or view the information, at least they have heard it firsthand from somebody who they know, instead of just reading Clickbait.. Even if mostly indirectly Your work has already contributed to saving lives, and will continue to do so. Of course, this is even more profound when you add in the autonomous driving features of Teslas as those features go main stream. Keep up the great work. You are doing things right and you are also doing the right things. Thanks.
I would be curious to have the percent of fire for scooters instead of total. What if there is more scooters than cars. Example if there is 10 cars and 100 scooters. having 10 x scooter fires is the same percentage because there is 10x scooters. Thanks for this video.
Good point! I could have addressed that better. Either way, there's still 10x more fires caused by scooters, etc. Whether that's 10x the risk at 1x the devices, 5x the risk at 2x the devices, or 10x the devices at 1x the risk.
"According to the Korea Insurance Development Institute, the number of fire and explosion incidents involving EVs has been higher than that of internal combustion engine vehicles over the past five years. EVs had 0.93 incidents per 10,000 vehicles, while non-EVs had a lower rate of 0.90 incidents. Moreover, the financial losses incurred in these incidents were significantly higher for EVs, with the average loss per incident tallied at 13 million won ($9,700), which is 1.9 times higher than the average of 6.9 million won for non-EVs."
I used global stats for good reason. There's a number of reasons why the above could be true for a specific country. Think about it for a split second.
If this "myth bust" is correct why are insurance companies bumping prices up for evs and some refusing to insure them I highly doubt that it's legal to tailor your insurance prices by false info 😂
If the fire service really wants to reduce fires, they would outlaw any use of open flame in residences.... 1.5 Million fires in 2022 in the USA. Half are indoor, and over half of those involved open flame.....
Since EV batteries don’t need oxygen isn’t a blanket pointless? It’s actually trapping heat which is worse. Because the blankets are not air tight, they can’t be, the toxic fumes escape anyway.
A friend of mine had a Lotus with a known fuel line problem that he wasn't aware of. Shortly after buy the car he was travelling along and become aware of flames emerging from the engine bay behind him. He pulled over in a panic but luckily someone following him who had had the same problem a few years previously was carrying a fire extinguisher, which he used to put out the flames in a few seconds. Good luck putting out an EV fire like that when it will typically take a team of fire fighter's hours to get the EV fire under control and not before washing toxic materials out into the environment with thousands of gallons of water, all whilst waring breathing apparatus. There is no equivalence. Just saying 😉 😅
How many of these were caused by fuel/engine fires and not electrical wiring, etc.? Oh, yeah, all the reasons for the fire are counted together => unrealistic results more precisely a bullshit!! An ICE vehicle can also catch fire for other reasons too. We are looking for the engine/fuel to blame for the fire but these statistics do not exist!! 80+% of ICE fires is due to electrical wiring/parts or poor maintenance. It's not as common for a fire to be caused by the engine or fuel as some people think!! For example, there was a defect in the seat adjustment motor... and some cars caught fire, but that has NOTHING to do with ICE vehicles. This result and all the others are bullshit!
1) This seems to support the premise of the video. 2) I don't understand your point, but I appreciate the passion. Cool off a bit, have a think, and try again 3) Yup, lots of reasons for fires. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you mean again. I showed the stats and where you can find them for yourself 4) Correct. Usually due to people not looking after their vehicles properly. But, that's not going to change unless we create more regulations to force people to maintain their cars better like they do in other countries. I'm not keen on more governmen intervention 5) Correct. But, what matters is the number of fires in aggregate per vehicles miles and factoring and the age of those vehicles. I provided the best data we have and the trajectory supports EVs as the safest option.
7:52 "First, the total energy released from an EV fire, is similar to that from an ICE vehicle fire." I'd be curious to know the breakdown of the energy contained in the combustable materials in a battery pack.
I covered that in the video. Simply combine a fuel leak with a spark or hot engine and you're toast. That is, people didn't worry about cars in garages before EVs because that was before they were programmed, like NPCs, to get emotional and reactionary about EVs.
Vehicle fire data Data obtained through a Freedom of Information (FOI) request revealed that in 2019 the London Fire Brigade dealt with 54 electric vehicle fires compared with 1,898 petrol and diesel fires. Vehicle registration numbers from the Department for Transport (DfT) show there are 50,000-plus plug-in cars licensed in the capital out of a total 4.63 million licensed cars. Looking at the London Fire Brigade data, that would suggest an incident rate of 0.04% for petrol and diesel car fires, while the rate for plug-in vehicle is more than double at 0.1%. So far this year, there have been 1,021 petrol and diesel fires and 27 EV fires in the capital. Leasing companies are reporting a surge of interest in plug-in vehicles thanks, in part, to new, EV-friendly company car tax rates introduced in April. Plug-in vehicles, both PHEV and pure electric new registrations, accounted for 12% of all new registrations in October, while Tusker reported that more than 45% of all its new orders over the past 30 days have been for pure EVs.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Lithium Ion batteries are lithium ion batteries. Almost any energy storing medium has the potential to catch on fire. None are perfectly safe.
If only about 1/3 of the heat generated by burning fuel in an ICE vehicle goes toward moving it and about 9/10 of the energy stored in a battery go toward moving an EV then it is natural that there is more energy released from an ICE Fire. And released potentially all at once. ALso once the fuel tank is ruptured, liquid fuel can and does run down the roadway and into storm sewers causing more hazards.
At least The Limiting Factor is honest enough to admit he's an Elonmobile stock owner (20:19) ... but the honesty pretty much ends there ... and that admission closes, not opens, this 22 minute mountain of mostly EV fire rubbish. For brevity, let's concentrate on EV fire death. And collisions appear to be the real danger ... especially in Elonmobiles ... which, among other things, do not have rear passenger, inside mechanical door handles. Elonmobiles do have front passenger, inside mechanical door handles ... but they are stealthy. That, and Marc Tarpenning & Martin Eberhard were acutely aware of thermal runaway risk before Car 1 ... U2oob: Tesla founders CNBC ... and go to minute 11 : 00. The Limiting Factor boasts in this December 4, 2024 video that EV passengers have more time to exit the vehicle upon fire (8:38), and further boasts that in a 2023, six(6) month period there were only four(4) EV fire deaths worldwide (18:05). However, in a one(1) month period, November 2024 alone, last month, there were at least ten(10) EV fire deaths (all Elonmobiles), not worldwide, but just in the USofA alone. As there are apparently no official sources available, here are the U2oob sources for all known EV fire deaths in the US, November 2024 only ... >> 3 deaths* ... U2oob: Piedmont Cybertruck *The fourth passenger is presently in a medically induced coma. >> 5 deaths ... U2oob: Verona Tesla fire >> 2 deaths ... U2oob: Bucks Tesla fire That, and the The Limiting Factor makes the astonishing claim (19:28) that: ---------------- [EV] passengers have a bare minimum of five minutes to exit the vehicle before it's engulfed in flames, and in some cases over an hour. ---------------- In closing, predictably, The Limiting Factor claims (18:29): ----------------- In summary, the media and commentators are pumping a fear narrative with EV battery fires to sell clicks ... [Really? Show that for the 5 EV dead in Verona, for instance.] ... but the reality is that EV's are at least eight times less likely to catch fire than internal combustion vehicles [His source? Elon. (2:55)] -------------------
Couple thoughts: most non-tesla EVs use pouch cells with little to no barrier. Those seem to be the ones shooting large flame jets. That's why I prefer the cylindrical cells, Even if they do have a chance to burn longer due to the slower chain reaction. Also, fossil fuels are always going to be highly flammable. Starting with LFP I think future battery tech will get us to an even safer point. The big disadvantage to EV fires is the time to extinguish by firefighting or total material consumption. If it does happen on the side of the road for example it takes a while before it's safe to transport. Perhaps fire departments investing in a metal sandbox trailer with a picker would be a good idea. It would be useful for ICE vehicles too. The hard part with EVs is that it's much more difficult to predict and prevent defective cell manufacturing events. The Bolt was a goid example. With a normal car it is easier with a thorough inspection and preventative maintenance to reduce fires. Not that those kind of inspections happens really ever by the average person. Overall it is nice to see more data that EVs are statistically safer.
Andrew, you may be confusing pouch (as in domestic electronics) with BYD blade battery. The blade battery uses go and has highest rating in the nail picture test. Bear in mind done (all) Teslas with LFP chem use prismatic ( like large bricks) It is hard to find a verified example of a LFP blade battery fire. BYD are making 500,000 per month at the moment so the tech looks good thus far.
@mickjoebills no, I'm not confusing the two. Most (US at least) non-tesla vehicles are using ternary pouch cells. Mostly from SK and LG if I recall correctly. And yes, almost all LFP is basically BYD prismatic at this point. BYD, and to a lesser extent; CATL, and EVE are the frontrunners of LFP manufacturing/innovation.
Also life is full of people who have made mistakes buying items such as electric cars they regret but they would rather tell people how good they are because they like people to be in the same situation as they are rather than tell the truth in case they get ridiculed they would rather people be the same bad situation as them selves
As you point out that's true of anything. Your argument is a non-argument because it applies so broadly. It's basically "they could be lying" Well yeah, lol. But that's not what the surveys and repeat purchases are telling us.
1/EVfiresafe definition of a fire is very important. They list battery runaways only. A fire, such as the recent cyber truck will not be listed. (based on fire chief Branagan’s statement the traction battery did not catch fire) 2/ Two more studies to include! Both related to studying ev risks in roll on roll off ships. LASH and Danish Institute ( both of these studies are in agreement with the data presented in this video) extracts below LASH * EV fires are not more common/more likely than conventional vehicle fires. * The intensity of an EV fire is not necessarily more than that of a conventional car fire because most of the fire load comes from the materials used in the construction of the vehicle (plastics, interior etc) so the fire intensity is similar. * The fire growth rate of an EV fire is not faster than that of a conventional car fire. * Battery car fires can be controlled and extinguished by drencher systems among other methods. * It is highly unlikely that you will experience an electric shock from fighting a battery fire with water. * The re-ignition risk with an EV is higher than that of a conventional vehicle and the vehicle must be closely monitored after the fire has been extinguished Danish Institute report * All of the fires in the ELBAS tests could be extinguished safely. * The right equipment and training of crew is a critical aspect for lowering EV fire risks * ELBAS confirmed the effectiveness of drencher systems and boundary cooling. In their executive summary, DBI finished on a positive note: “In conclusion, the issue of EV fire safety onboard ships should not be a barrier to meeting the increasing market demand and support the green transition. The overall conclusion of the ELBAS project is that EV fires on ferries are not to be feared more than any other fire at sea. They can typically be dealt with using the correct technology, education, and training of shipboard personnel, as well as with coordinated cooperation between the ship and with emergency services on land.” (Quoted from DBI Executive Summary page iii.).
Hey light spirit I admire your verve in presenting an opinion without data to support it. Don’t forget to include fires started by ice that park and their hot exhausts start grass fires which has resulted in catastrophic damage, homes and lives lost. ( 4000 cars destroyed at Fort Meyer was cii ok included by fire investigator to probably have started by hot exhaust.) Ditto parking with overheated brakes ( a far greater likelihood with ice than EVs) In respect to ice catching fire whilst parked well of course this occurs. Google it
These are not myths * no tune ups * no oil changes * no smog test * almost no maintenance * Less things to break * no catalytic converter theft * no engine heat ruining plastic & rubber parts * Less noise to ruin the music * Less vibration to shake things loose * no idling engine to run AC or heat * extreme acceleration (from 70 mph) * Less stressful traffic jam driving * No cat gutz in the fan belts 🤣 * no dirty oily engine bay * no oil leaking on the driveway
No, I didn't ignore it I just left a lot of things out of the video that were neither here nor there I could have made the video five times as long, and it wouldn't have strengthened the case
When EV's are 50% of all road vehicles then we can subjectively look at data. Hotter and slower combustion sounds more dangerous as the higher heat is more concentrated for longer. Your data sounds flimsy. I will not park/sleep in a hotel with EV's in the basement car park.
1) Covered in the video 2) Sounds like you're going of your beliefs rather than what's happening in the real world. Notably, you've provided no counterargument, just feelings. 3) That's fine. Vote with your feet. Clutching your pearls here in the comments doesn't change anything.
StacheD channel gives the real world situation of EV and ICE fire comparison in a vid he dropped recently. He's a first resonder that's dealt with both types of fires.
I just watched the video, and he uses anecdotal evidence rather than data He makes some good points, but there's also a lot of flaws in his argument that are covered by my video
@@thelimitingfactoryes, he searches hard and wide to find negatives. For instance in the recent tripe fatality cyber truck crash the traction battery did not catch fire . He summised /guessed it was the low voltage lithium ion battery which caught fire. This is a risk in many cars and caravans and RVs yet he tagged it into a Tesla crash…
It good to know objective evidence but I have given up trying to argue with EV hating relatives . This just brings a tirade of anti EV propaganda. They all have just bought very expensive muscle cars , on credit. If EVs continue to get cheaper and improve the value of used petrol cars may fall dramatically.
10 gallons of gas = 337kwh's - all goes to heat in a fire Avg EV battery ~ 65kwh's - all goes to heat in a fire ICE fires produce much more heat in total
Bear in mind that for the average EV battery, that's just the amount you can extract, and there's actually a lot more that's accessible if it starts on fire
@@thelimitingfactor Your right, and that's a good next topic.... Why do we only use roughly 25% of the battery capacity? Everyone knows the end result to batteries when they get discharged to a low voltage. But what happens chemically? Thanks Jordan Keep up the good work.
Two reasons: First, because if you cycle the battery more deeply, it causes degradation Second, because combustible energy is different from reversible reactions 🤠 If it combusts, that's one time only
Oh man you beat me to this one!! People go nuts when I cover these statistics. People seem to completely dismiss objective evidence on this topic. Drives me bananas. Sharing this on my community section and forum.
I think the most dangerous potential issue is having an improper conductor size or not using a continuous duty EV receptacle. Many NEMA 14-50 outlets overheat and are not designed to run at their current rating all day. Need to spend good money for the ones that are rated correctly. That's the biggest issue I have found. And it never seems to be mentioned.
But people are worried about other things that are statistically not a big deal at all. It's strange
Awesome! This is the greatest compliment I could get from one of my favorite TH-camrs.
I just built my first solar/battery system last month. I lot of my decisions and learnings were sourced from your channel ✊
I watched because will reposted
@@thelimitingfactor No way you did!!?? That is awesome!! And thanks man :D I appreciate the work and information you put into the videos! Youre one of my favorite channels, and I am not subscribed to many at all haha
@@hozn Great to see you here
The data for "More Dangerous" fires need to include tanker truck, gas station and refinery fires when comparing BEVs to ICE vehicles.
Today’s truck fire closed melbourne to Sydney highway. 28 fire trucks hundreds of volunteers responding to the subsequent grass fire . A truck fire at entrance to a tunnel in Baltimore, cctv showing rivers of flaming petroleum and in South Africa a horrific multi car fire accident.
We just had a large refinery fire a couple of weeks ago in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hardly a mention of it on the news.
You do understand that most electricity going to EV cars use Oil and gas too?
@@catsgam6442 I don’t know any ev owners whose primary purchasing reason was to save the planet. I just bought a diesel tractor and yesterday paid A$1k to service the Land Rover. I can afford to keep it as our EV has cost bugger all to run as we charge from home for free.
We are in a decades long transition.
You made several points I hadn't thought about. Thank you!
You're most welcome! 😊
About those scooter and ebicycle fires. Market dynamics drive the way EVs are built and sold today, so the best cells get used in the largest, most potentially dangerous, but profitable automotive packs. This leaves the rejected cells still being on the market, since no one wants to scrap newly built product if not absolutely necessary. Those lesser quality cells are being sold to that secondary market, I believe, and those cheaper packs are also less stable.
Great point!
That largely depends on the battery builder, there are very high quality cells that get used in things other than cars. Cordless tools, for example, can get some very high quality cells in them (mostly the high quality name brands sold in physical stores, you're rolling the dice purchasing any batteries on amazon or ebay) Greenworks tools even sells E-bikes that take either their 80 volt or 60 volt battery packs for outdoor power equipment. It's also possible for a regular person to purchase top of the line Samsung or Molicell battery cells and build their own battery pack. (I DO NOT recommend doing that unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing!) Most E-bike fires are caused by cheap batteries that are built poorly and often lack proper safety measures, or by damaged packs.
If you're buying an E-Bike, I recommend doing your research and buying from a reputable dealer or direct from the manufacturer on their website, Amazon and Ebay really don't do enough to stop sketchy products and sellers and their sites are riddled with clone and knockoff bikes and batteries that don't meet safety standards. (don't even consider buying from Temu, Aliexpress or Wish, they are even worse). Only use the included charger and don't leave the battery on the charger for a long time once it is full or let it charge unattended. I use a timer switch to shut my charger off once it's done. Make sure you properly recycle your battery when it reaches end of life, and if you should ever see, hear, or smell any signs the battery could be about to burn, get it on a nonflammable surface like concrete if you can do it safely (preferably with a long tool like a shovel, or move the bike itself while holding it as far from the battery as possible) call the fire department IMMEDIATELY, and get away from it. A bucket of sand is probably the best option if you need to try to put that fire out yourself, but don't put yourself in danger by getting too close.
Got my model y delivery this weekend and most of both mine and my wifes families are anti ev with nothing more than watching traditional new if even that so when i get the earful i will be definitely be forwarding this video i couldn't be more thankful that its out thank you!
This video was FIRE!
🤣 Thanks
According to USA insurance data for every 100,000 EV's 25 will catch fire whilst for every 100,000 ICE vehicles 1,532 will catch fire, so ICE vehicles catch fire 61x more often than EV's
and how many of these were caused by fuel/engine fires and not electrical wiring, etc.?
Oh, yeah, all the reasons for the fire are counted together => unrealistic results more precisely a bullshit!!
An ICE vehicle can also catch fire for other reasons too. We are looking for the engine/fuel to blame for the fire but these statistics do not exist!!
80+% of ICE fires is due to electrical wiring/parts or poor maintenance.
It's not as common for a fire to be caused by the engine or fuel as some people think!!
For example, there was a defect in the seat adjustment motor... and some cars caught fire, but that has NOTHING to do with ICE vehicles.
This result and all the others are bullshit!
Finally, a report using real data around EV vs ICE fires.
Image when the Tesla can drive itself out of a structure that catches on fire.....or when it can drive itself away from other vehicles/structures when it detects an internal fault which may trigger its own internal fire (and call emergency crews for you).
Good point!
I worry that Optimus will walk out of my party ☹️
Not when it started it
Quality and quantity of evidence has little affect on beliefs, coherence is king. Basically, telling a compelling story is more important than the data included for the average person. That being said I love the approach you bring to the table. The data is important for people who want to think and change based upon it.
According to NHTSA, ICE cars catch fire at a rate of 60x that of electric cars. That's ALL EV's, not just Tesla and it's reported per billion miles, not number of cars.
yeah, there's a range a of stats. That's why I gave several examples in this video
Thanks! Great Video.
Thanks Rob! I appreciate the support.
I'm bookmarking this one to use against the constant EV fire FUD.
Good luck getting them to watch a 20 minute video instead of just reaffirming their own world view.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see".
My feelings don’t care about your facts
Great video - I'll add the link to my EV Myth busting articles 😀 Great channel - love your work.
Thank you! This is the best video I’ve seen to counter FUD. I have bookmarked to share with friends/family.
Brilliant video as always Jordan! I will be sharing this with family and friends and on social media to get the word out.
✊🏼🤠🔥
Fact. Cheap EV insurance. My revivifier was quoted $987/yr for a ‘25 Model 3 and $2400/yr for a new Civic (in Nova Scotia CAD). Agent explained, “it’s about risk. We pay out less for Teslas on accidents, fires, and especially… THEFT” ❤
♥️💯
@@thelimitingfactor battery fires are worse than gasoline fires even if gasoline is more flammable its easier to put out. so yes battery fires are more dangerous than gasoline fires.
@billybobbob3003 did you even watch the video? Your comment is objectively false
@@Matzes even if something catches fire easier but easier to put out thats superior tech
@@billybobbob3003 uhm your comment lacks so much nuance and context. You just parroting mainstream media click bait articles. I won't argue more if you can't even watch the video you are commenting on. Statistically you are so much less likely to die or be injured in an EV, adjusted for amount of cars on roads. It's a no brainer safety wise.
Based on the Munro video I thought wouldn’t see this until Jan. You can imagine how happy I was when it popped up in my feed!!
Thank you so much for this; you are awesome!!!
Sure thing 😁 That interview actually happened a few weeks ago and I finished my fire video earlier than expected
I think, as you say, a lot of people aren't aware that they could well be better off buying an EV, they just don't have the accurate data on things like safety, charging, cost of ownership etc. Many knowledgeable people say things confidently to me like the battery pack will degrade and be very expensive to replace or it'll cost the same to fuel or repairs will be expensive. I see those statement as evidence of the success of legacy ICE in being able to play down the EV advantages and amplify disadvantages.
Hey, love your content and I’ve been watching for years. If I may, I’d like to add some insight in regards to firefighting aspect. I work in Santa Clara county, heart if Silicon Valley. There are tons of EVs on the road obviously. ICE vehicle fires are a common occurrence but I can say that after 11 years working there I’ve never been to a BEV fire, except those that were parked in a garage that was on fire.
I think that while these ideas for extinguishing and controlling a BEV fire sound simple and easy to implement the opposite is in fact true. I liken it to how every year there is some new battery that’s just on the horizon that will revolutionize EVs, but it never comes to fruition. Why? Real world factors kill it. Supply chain difficulties, manufacturing requirements, mass production issues, etc.
That’s how I see it with the options proposed in the video. Great on paper but not realistic. First even if those were all implemented a fire engine would have to be on scene for much longer than an ice vehicle fire. 30 minutes and a fire company can have a ice vehicle extinguished and be back in service. Getting a battery electric vehicle submerged in sand is going to take hours making something like that happen would be a monumental task. A high pressurized water jet being punctured into the battery is another constraint. I won’t pretend to know the specifics of that, but my first question is seeing as it’s from Sweden I assume it’s based off of their firefighting capabilities. In Europe, they use high-pressure systems whereas in the United States we use much lower pressures. Also a tool that size is not going to easily fit on any firefighting apparatus. Our rigs are already full. There is no spare space so for something as large as that device for something as rare as a battery electric vehicle fire it simply would not be carried on every single rig. So there would have to be some centralized apparatus that does carry that piece of Equipment and then a plan in place for how to access a container that the vehicle can be put in and filled with sand. This process would take hours while that fire engine company is now not in service protecting the citizens in their first due. Also, this wouldn’t work in accidents off the road, on their side, into a ravine, etc. A flat paved surface, sure, but not what many emergency scenes look like.
The fire blanket would only extinguish the vehicle components in the cab, but wouldn’t extinguish the battery obviously as the chemistry of the battery does not require oxygen in the air to self sustain.
Our most current strategy involves attempting to extinguish, and if it isn’t successful then to let it burn out. It’s simply faster and safer
Like I said, this is a very rare issue, especially compared to ICE fires. But it will require more technical approach and much more time commitment from responding agencies.
Anyway, this is just my observation as a person who considers themselves very experienced in vehicle fires and firefighting in general. If you’d like to ask questions feel free.
I appreciate you sharing your expertise on this! It's really helpful to get insights from a first responder.
@pattognozzi I know that at least one European Fire Department can bring a tank to an EV fire and simply drop the EV in. I thought that it might be possible to circle the EV with a temporary tank as can be done for flood control and fill that. Once the battery cools off, you can pump the water away after to minimize any contamination.
@@grahammonk8013The idea is sound but in practice it’s difficult to implement. In a flat parking lot, sure. Crammed in a parking garage on the 3rd floor, or on a slope off the road, crashed and on its side, etc. These all are scenarios that it would no longer work in.
Not to mention it’s a rare occurrence. So this specialized resource would be few and far between to get on scene.
My understanding is the blanket does put out the fire because it keeps the fire contained to the cells already engulfed.
@ but the cells will continue to burn under the blanket
It would be great if we could also seperate LFP and NMC cell vehicles. Id guess there isnt enough data yet to support this. Great video - its going into my favourites.
So insurance companies are using this misinformation to raise their prices to insure EVs? That should be illegal.
great video. going to share the chart on fewer injuries with EVs with loved ones and clients
💯⛑️
It appears the main batteries in later EVs are lately well protected against fire, however the new 48V Lithium Ion batteries have now introduced a new fire hazard in a crash. There have lately been several incidents where the 48V batteries catch fire after a severe crash.
Just had an argument with my father in law about this video. His points I didn't have answers for is the age of fleets. He thinks the gas car fires are much older and the EVs are newer and therefore the data isn't comparing apples to apples. He's not wrong. Any data on that?
He also says it's not common for for fire departments to be well equipped with to fight the fires that do occur. Especially in smaller countries where the departments might not be as well funded. If you need special tools that car is going to burn till it's done.
No good data on that yet, and it's a fair point
However, it doesn't negate a lot of what I said in the video. For example, the peak heat release rate and the time that battery powered vehicles give you exit.
But thinking practically from an engineering perspective and what we're seeing anecdotally: It's actually the newest vehicles that catch on fire due to some sort of manufacturing defect.
If a battery pack is manufactured well, there's not a whole lot that can go wrong because the battery cells are entombed in the battery pack.
The exception is if the vehicle ends up being submerged in water! There's Gore-Tex valves in the battery pack that allow for pressure changes while limiting water ingress.
But, they haven't found a way to completely protect the battery pack from being submerged in water yet for long periods of time.
Either way, there's nothing wrong with letting the car burn until it's done. It's an acceptable strategy. This is what a lot of fire departments are doing.
According to the firemen, the real issue when doing that is the public perception 😁 ...
That's because people think the firemen can't put out the fire over that day long period, but really they are doing it intentionally
@@thelimitingfactor for him the main concern stems from a family member who's new I3 burned down their garage and house. There's a lot of situations where letting it burn is just not an option. So I understand his concern although it may be rare, if there's no data to show that a new or well maintained gas car is more likely to burn down than a new EV, there's no convincing him.
Very good video !! Ice cars seem to be getting more dangerous with fires if anything before you had one fuel pump @60psi now most new cars run two fuel pumps one @60psi the other around 2000@ psi with plastic lines for direct injection crazy!! I ve read that hybrid are the worst for car fires.
Thanks for spiling the beans on EV fire risk.
Shared widely.
Great research.
For those safety crash info we might add that EV crash fully live. ICE get crashed without all fluids. No hot engine and no fuel. Those did not make the same results in real live. impacts.
Most of your videos are excellent, but this one is even better than that. I will be showing this to my 12-year-old son, partly because it contains lots of valuable information, and partly because it demonstrates that research, combined with excellent critical-thinking skills can yield important insights.
I really appreciate hearing that ✊🏼💯🤠
I hope it gets some cut through and the algorithm picks it up
Dear Jordan, I would appreciate some data about your guess that older vehicles would get more often into accidents and catch fire than newer ones. Thank you!
This was a common knowledge point that didn't require data
That is, you should be able to Google it and get the information pretty quick 🤠✊🏼
I have a 2018 Model 3. According to the manual my car does not have mechanical releases on the back doors. Newer models have rear door release cords hidden under a rubber cover at the bottom of the door storage bin. It is unconscionable to have door latches dependent on the electrical system remaining intact after a collision. Rear seat passengers are likely to be friends of the owner and unfamiliar with the hidden cord release. Imagine having to escape over the front seats with broken bones after an accident.
I agree
If your friends are like mine, they can’t figure out how to open the rear doors even without a fire 😂
Interesting video. But I would still never buy an EV having driven a few that my family owned (and got rid off).
Fair enough! To each their own!
Great analysis once again Jordan!
In one of my arguments pertaining vehicle fire, I always challenge those negative narrator with this: “for ICE car, you are literally carrying a tank of explosive behind it, aren’t you not concerned about it? What happen when that tank is exposed to fire? Even a tiny spark can cause a sudden release of extremely high heat and energy (aka explosion), and you will have no time to respond to evacuation at all”
The truth is that most EV OEMs are designing the battery pack to withstand a minimum of 5mins at high heat before thermal runaway takes place. Even if thermal runaway takes places, the insulating materials must withstand burning of 1000-1400C for greater than 10mins before giving in to prevent fire from spreading.
You are so right. Unfortunately, the mainstream media simply do not have any clue on how battery pack is designed and simply go by unvetted news…
Bingo!
They think they don't trust batteries but are surrounded by them. Everybody's phone, laptop, Bluetooth box and so on have to get charged daily... there are literally billions of batteries anyways
Cannot thank you enough for this great compilation of useful information ❤
Absolutely! My pleasure
16:20 When 2 ICE cars collide front to back the rear car usually takes most of the damage because the trunk in the front car has a floor which provides strength through cross bracing. This will allow a car with a frunk to have similar crashes performance.
Unfortunately for me, FRUNKENSTEIN is in the Frunk!😮
This analysis was thorough and comprehensive (as usual). I will share this video, as it will be a solid reference for FUD fighting, moving forward.
Glad to hear it! 🤠🙏🏼
Thanks again for all these very well compiled informations. ❤👌 👍
✊🏼🤠
Awesome video mate.
Thanks man!
Thank you!
Using well renowned cylindrical cells with module/pack design preventing single cell propagation reduces the risks considerable. Also designing BMS following functional safety standards further reduces the risk of operating cells outside spec. Prismatic NMC cells are trickier to prevent propagation with. I’m not a Tesla fan but believe they follow or exceed industry best practice here.
💯
Is there any data on this? With it being the last layer of defence, I'm guessing it rarely ever mattered but I'd be interested to see if we can observe a noticeable uptick in the rates of fires going from cylindrical to prismatic and pouch cells.
@@Luka_3D I don’t think the rate will go up with prismatic cells but potentially, when it happens, the consequence might be more severe since it will be harder to stop it at cell level. That’s at least my experience working with both types.
A GREAT REPORT🧐 JORDAN FACTUAL ,OBJECTIVE AND REASONABLE …THANK YOUR SUPPORTERS AND U-TUBE MEMBERS FOR THEIR CONTINUED SUPPORT🤗🙏IN EDUCATING THE PUBLIC 💚💚💚
My two biggest (entirely personal) reasons not to get an EV are charging times vs filling with gas, and battery lifespan and replacement cost.
I'll preface this by saying that gas vehicles are definitely better for some people. I was talking to my friend the other day and told him he should stick with a big, gas powered truck for his use case.
With that said:
1) If you do the typical 12-15k/yr, charging times won't be an issue. 90% of your charging will likely be at home if that's your use case.
For the other 10% (or whatever) that you're going on road trips, you'll likely be fine as well if you're on Tesla's network (they have the only great charging network). That's because most people will stop to pee or grab a drink or eat or stretch their legs every three hours. By the time that's finished (20-30 minutes) your vehicle will be ready for another 3 hours of driving.
2) Battery lifespan is typically at least 300k miles (1000-1200 cycles X by a range of 250-350 miles)
3) Battery replacement cost is a fair point. However, most vehicles have a 8 year/100k mile warranty on the powertrain or more. Battery costs are falling, and the cost of replacement for the battery is expected to be cheaper than an engine by 2030.
Thanks for putting this out. My next vehicle is an EV unfortunately I own a Honda Element and the utility and reliability is making it challenging to switch currently.
Look at IONIQ 5. My revivifier ordered one: Doc has 2 border collies 🐶🐶For folks who drive a lot, gas saving pays for the car❤
@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck I have ,but I need a vehicle that can tow around 3,000 lbs and can fit a water heater, dryer, washer or other large appliances.
Great topic!
Been in the EV industry for some years now and yes the narrative around battery fires is media dominated, thus in need of clarification.
Tesla and others have been supportive with fire companies, but not to a large degree. What would be constructive is to focus the development of ev battery fire control rather than letting thousands of fire chiefs and startup companies figure it out for themselves. In all truth, the federal government should have appointed the United States Navy, the most advanced fire fighting technology organization in the world, to work out solutions and get them to fire chiefs. I am not going to do the "physics breakdown" here, be my guest though. If there is an ev fire in or near an occupied structure or on the side of a busy highway the fire company needs an effective solution and a fast one. If a gas car is on fire you hit it with water or foam and it is out....a proven solution. If an EV battery is on fire water or foam isn't that effective thus the discussion.
"EV fires reignite" ...up until a year ago many fire companies weren't aware of this nor tactics to manage it.
"A correctly manufactured and sized fire tarp can stop a battery fire in about two to four minutes." As long as the responders can keep the tarp in place, the issue is somewhat in control, but these tactics are still in development.
"Pumping thousands of gallons onto an EV battery is not an effective tactic as it takes too long and uses too much water."
Along with a correct fire tarp it can be far more effective.
One fire Captain when dealing with a constantly reigniting ev fire came up with a solution. The car was next to a river, so he just had one of his trucks push it into the water and the fire stopped. A South Korean fire company has a kiddie pool like structure that they assemble around a burning ev....they then fill it with water. Immersing the battery works....sort of. Chemical fires are hot and different from gas fires and fire chiefs are learning this the hard way. Another enterprising fire company got a nearby backhoe to dig an ev sized hole next to the burning ev, pushed the car into the hole and filled it with water....problem more or less solved for the moment.
My point with this is to get the issue out of the political realm and help the 22,000+ fire chiefs in the US deal with their next EV fire. Theory along with the statistics about gas vehicle fires and vehicle safety are of little use to a fire company responding to an EV fire in a dangerous situation for the first time in let's say...later this evening. These battery fires require a safe and effective solution that is, by the way, completely different from the solution used to put out gas vehicle fires.
What are the causes of EV manufactural fires.
What are preventative actions that can be taken to reduce manufactural fire risk.
Oh; you covered that
Nice vlog
Great video! Thank you
Fantastic video ❤
There are 175,000 ICE car fires every year and over 600 fatalities. Ill take my chances with an EV.
Root cause of spreading fires is flame propagating material like Polypropylene used for protecting electric wires or as insulation. For details you can see my video ' how to prevent vehicle fire'
Thanks for countering all the misinformation and gaslighting coming from jealous hater’s of Tesla.
8:24 Just a note, the vehicle that started the London airport fire was a diesel hybrid that may have had a battery fire, so maybe not the best ICE vehicle fire example to use...
I took a close look at that, and it was a diesel vehicle, not a Lithium-Ion battery fire.
th-cam.com/video/KlSiDT7ll94/w-d-xo.html
What about the stories of people being locked in their tesla due to the electronic latches failing?
Not all tesla's have rear manual handles.
It's true, but also true for ICE vehicles with electronic door actuators.
@thelimitingfactor that's unfortunate that other manufacturers are moving that way. Just seems like something that didn't need to be reinvented. Just adds another layer of confusion in an emergency situation like the rear manual handles being buried under the door pocket. All to save money on the assembly line.
I agree, they should make them more accessible. I wouldn't say it's for profit though. Rather, engineers and autists get obsessed with simplicity sometimes and then have to course correct.
@@thelimitingfactor taking the 'best part is no part' a little to far sometimes
I just tell people that EVs are 60x less likely to catch fire than internal combustion vehicles.
Are LFP batteries even less of a risk in a fire?
Yes 😀
Loved the idea of Liquid Nitrogen quench, but remembered that not everyone has lab experience, especially after a fire incident.
A lot of the danger to occupants in EV fires isn't even the battery, it's the current fad for electrically actuated door locks. If you lose electrical power, which you could if the main or auxiliary battery self immolates or for a range of other reasons, you're trapped inside a burning car. "Hurr durr backup door handle" is irrelevant in a panic situation, the mental state of panic shuts down a lot of your brain and reduces your capacity for complex tasks like finding a screwdriver to pop the panel out of the bottom of the door pocket so you can reach the backup door release.
There is a new, unexpected danger: lithium auxiliary batteries. The Piedmont Cybertruck fire is thought to have been caused by an auxiliary battery getting smashed in the crash and igniting the car as the main battery back didn't catch fire.
Which can also happen with ICE vehicles that have electrically actuated doors.
I agree completely with your comments Sir. I think it will take a few more years for the nonsense in legacy media to disappear.
By coincidence, Gary Comerford of the audio podcast "EV Musings" covered EV fires in his latest episode no.236. He referenced similar sources especially the analysis by EV Fire Safe of Australia and closely mirrored this video.
Both yours and his are worth bookmarking to counter all the tiresome repetitive FUD.
[edit] I'll just add EV Musings selects single topics to focus on in each episode and mainly addresses the UK EV market although often is of wider interest. I personally sponsor a diferrent EV podcaster but Gary's is good one.
You forgot everything made by LG Chem
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. It was about vehicle fires, not a buyer's guide.
Outstanding video!
Thanks Jonathan!
Chevrolet is the main offender when it comes to BEV fires. It is because they use pouch cells rather than cylindrical cells. They are the company that said don’t park your EV in the garage and have discontinued the bolt and its predecessor the volt.
4:51 note the three vehicles with higher fire incidents have a common battery cell
7:35 the HRR is dependent on how many cells initiated the fire. If you ignite one cell, it may or may not cascade and may burn out before cascading. If you ignite multiple cells simultaneously, you may overwhelm the cascading protections and get a much hotter fire. This data needs to demonstrate if/whether the ignition function was truly equivalent. This is a know problem in Li-ion test procedures including UL9540A.
🎯
It would make sence to promote safer chemestri like sodium, that will also reduce the most crazy acceleration that are not needed for street use.
Anything that stores energy will eventually catch on fire
Sodium ion will still catch fire
Just have to correct you on something. The "diesel " that burnt through the concrete floor of a parking station in London, it was a hybrid. The battery caught fire.
Any proof of that?
All indications are that it was Diesel. People saw sideways flames and assumed it was lithium ion, but it was windy day that blew the flames horizontally.
th-cam.com/video/KlSiDT7ll94/w-d-xo.html
@thelimitingfactor it was reported as a hybrid range rover. "M guy" , "auto expert" have already done stories on this very subject. Diesel would never have gotten hot enough to go through the concrete. Nothing against you, but the media omitts those details in their reporting.
@@davidepps267
I reviewed those channels before I did this video.
There's no way that a single EV battery fire is going to generate enough heat to collapse a parking garage floor/ceiling
A parking garage floor/ceiling has an enormous amount of thermal mass
With a single vehicle fire, you'll get some spalling and some structural damage. But it's highly unlikely to collapse the floor or ceiling.
On that note, it looks like you ignored the point in my video where I said that the total amount of heat generated for an ICE or EV fire is roughly the same
That is, as the video that I linked above explains, it was a diesel fire that spread through wind to other vehicles. After hundreds or thousands of vehicles caught fire, then there was enough heat to collapse the floor
Start thinking critically.
Just because a channel says something and agrees with your bias, doesn't mean it's true.
The arguments that I put together here are far superior to the arguments in those videos
But you ignore them because it doesn't align with your bias.
@thelimitingfactor I have no bias, I simply stated other channels have reported the same incident as a hybrid battery fire . Do with that as you wish but a diesel 4wd does not spontaneously combust when parked, let alone have enough heat to burn through concrete.
@davidepps267 No, they speculated, they didn't report
It was their opinion, and as far as I can tell you've produced no facts to support that and neither have they.
And yes, of course a vehicle can spontaneously combust, what are you on about?
All it takes is a fuel or oil leak.
This happens all the time.
My dad had to put out a vehicle fire once in the grocery store parking lot that he worked at.
The vehicle was just sitting there and caught on fire.
As for the concrete, I already explained that above.
Continuously repeating the same thing despite counter arguments against it makes you look like a hack.
Do with that information what you will.
Jordan, you are on… Fire! This video is not only fascinating, but also a public service. I speak with people On a regular basis, who are clearly not deeply into EVs, yet seem to know all of the talking points media puts forth in terms of FUD. It bothers me as a Tesla investor a bit, but not a huge amount. It bothers me Far more when I realize the lives that are ruined, because people use inferior technology out of fear, ironically, for their safety. Almost 6 years ago, I bought my last new car and it was a ICE vehicle, A 2019 Honda fit. I’m happy with the car and I’ve had no problems with it whatsoever but my next car will be most likely a Tesla because when I bought the Honda fit Teslas were still very expensive and the technology was still rapidly improving.. I also know a lot more about the technology now thanks to your videos and others. Anyway, these videos help me educate people, or at the very least, point them in the direction of useful well documented information even if they don’t actually go and read, or view the information, at least they have heard it firsthand from somebody who they know, instead of just reading Clickbait.. Even if mostly indirectly Your work has already contributed to saving lives, and will continue to do so. Of course, this is even more profound when you add in the autonomous driving features of Teslas as those features go main stream. Keep up the great work. You are doing things right and you are also doing the right things. Thanks.
✊🔥
I would be curious to have the percent of fire for scooters instead of total.
What if there is more scooters than cars.
Example if there is 10 cars and 100 scooters.
having 10 x scooter fires is the same percentage because there is 10x scooters.
Thanks for this video.
Good point! I could have addressed that better.
Either way, there's still 10x more fires caused by scooters, etc.
Whether that's 10x the risk at 1x the devices, 5x the risk at 2x the devices, or 10x the devices at 1x the risk.
This is great information. Thanks for doing this!
"According to the Korea Insurance Development Institute, the number of fire and explosion incidents involving EVs has been higher than that of internal combustion engine vehicles over the past five years.
EVs had 0.93 incidents per 10,000 vehicles, while non-EVs had a lower rate of 0.90 incidents.
Moreover, the financial losses incurred in these incidents were significantly higher for EVs, with the average loss per incident tallied at 13 million won ($9,700), which is 1.9 times higher than the average of 6.9 million won for non-EVs."
I used global stats for good reason. There's a number of reasons why the above could be true for a specific country. Think about it for a split second.
If this "myth bust" is correct why are insurance companies bumping prices up for evs and some refusing to insure them I highly doubt that it's legal to tailor your insurance prices by false info 😂
...because they can get away with it.
I switched insurance and it reduced my insurance cost by 75%
If the fire service really wants to reduce fires, they would outlaw any use of open flame in residences.... 1.5 Million fires in 2022 in the USA. Half are indoor, and over half of those involved open flame.....
Since EV batteries don’t need oxygen isn’t a blanket pointless? It’s actually trapping heat which is worse. Because the blankets are not air tight, they can’t be, the toxic fumes escape anyway.
As I said, most of the fire is the non battery components burning
A friend of mine had a Lotus with a known fuel line problem that he wasn't aware of. Shortly after buy the car he was travelling along and become aware of flames emerging from the engine bay behind him.
He pulled over in a panic but luckily someone following him who had had the same problem a few years previously was carrying a fire extinguisher, which he used to put out the flames in a few seconds.
Good luck putting out an EV fire like that when it will typically take a team of fire fighter's hours to get the EV fire under control and not before washing toxic materials out into the environment with thousands of gallons of water, all whilst waring breathing apparatus.
There is no equivalence.
Just saying 😉 😅
You should have watched the video before posting. Just saying.
How many of these were caused by fuel/engine fires and not electrical wiring, etc.?
Oh, yeah, all the reasons for the fire are counted together => unrealistic results more precisely a bullshit!!
An ICE vehicle can also catch fire for other reasons too. We are looking for the engine/fuel to blame for the fire but these statistics do not exist!!
80+% of ICE fires is due to electrical wiring/parts or poor maintenance.
It's not as common for a fire to be caused by the engine or fuel as some people think!!
For example, there was a defect in the seat adjustment motor... and some cars caught fire, but that has NOTHING to do with ICE vehicles.
This result and all the others are bullshit!
1) This seems to support the premise of the video.
2) I don't understand your point, but I appreciate the passion. Cool off a bit, have a think, and try again
3) Yup, lots of reasons for fires. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you mean again. I showed the stats and where you can find them for yourself
4) Correct. Usually due to people not looking after their vehicles properly. But, that's not going to change unless we create more regulations to force people to maintain their cars better like they do in other countries. I'm not keen on more governmen intervention
5) Correct. But, what matters is the number of fires in aggregate per vehicles miles and factoring and the age of those vehicles. I provided the best data we have and the trajectory supports EVs as the safest option.
7:52 "First, the total energy released from an EV fire, is similar to that from an ICE vehicle fire." I'd be curious to know the breakdown of the energy contained in the combustable materials in a battery pack.
Everyone ignores comparing EVs parked and charging vs internal combustion parked. No one ever worried about cars in garages before EVs
I covered that in the video.
Simply combine a fuel leak with a spark or hot engine and you're toast.
That is, people didn't worry about cars in garages before EVs because that was before they were programmed, like NPCs, to get emotional and reactionary about EVs.
Vehicle fire data
Data obtained through a Freedom of Information (FOI) request revealed that in 2019 the London Fire Brigade dealt with 54 electric vehicle fires compared with 1,898 petrol and diesel fires.
Vehicle registration numbers from the Department for Transport (DfT) show there are 50,000-plus plug-in cars licensed in the capital out of a total 4.63 million licensed cars.
Looking at the London Fire Brigade data, that would suggest an incident rate of 0.04% for petrol and diesel car fires, while the rate for plug-in vehicle is more than double at 0.1%. So far this year, there have been 1,021 petrol and diesel fires and 27 EV fires in the capital.
Leasing companies are reporting a surge of interest in plug-in vehicles thanks, in part, to new, EV-friendly company car tax rates introduced in April.
Plug-in vehicles, both PHEV and pure electric new registrations, accounted for 12% of all new registrations in October, while Tusker reported that more than 45% of all its new orders over the past 30 days have been for pure EVs.
GREAT information, thanks man!
UK media routinely report plug-in ICEcicles as “electric,” conflating categories, fostering myth.
I wish you included a mention of lithium iron batteries. They are safer than standard lithium ion batteries.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Lithium Ion batteries are lithium ion batteries. Almost any energy storing medium has the potential to catch on fire. None are perfectly safe.
If only about 1/3 of the heat generated by burning fuel in an ICE vehicle goes toward moving it and about 9/10 of the energy stored in a battery go toward moving an EV then it is natural that there is more energy released from an ICE Fire. And released potentially all at once.
ALso once the fuel tank is ruptured, liquid fuel can and does run down the roadway and into storm sewers causing more hazards.
Any info on the claim that EVs are more likely to catch fire after collision?
I'm not sure what you mean, I provided the sources on screen
Of the 9 fires in Australia 3 were being driven (one at very very high speed).
@@thelimitingfactor I mean data or analysis of fire rate per collision event.
At least The Limiting Factor is honest enough to admit he's an Elonmobile stock owner (20:19) ... but the honesty pretty much ends there ... and that admission closes, not opens, this 22 minute mountain of mostly EV fire rubbish.
For brevity, let's concentrate on EV fire death.
And collisions appear to be the real danger ... especially in Elonmobiles ... which, among other things, do not have rear passenger, inside mechanical door handles. Elonmobiles do have front passenger, inside mechanical door handles ... but they are stealthy. That, and Marc Tarpenning & Martin Eberhard were acutely aware of thermal runaway risk before Car 1 ... U2oob: Tesla founders CNBC ... and go to minute 11 : 00.
The Limiting Factor boasts in this December 4, 2024 video that EV passengers have more time to exit the vehicle upon fire (8:38), and further boasts that in a 2023, six(6) month period there were only four(4) EV fire deaths worldwide (18:05).
However, in a one(1) month period, November 2024 alone, last month, there were at least ten(10) EV fire deaths (all Elonmobiles), not worldwide, but just in the USofA alone.
As there are apparently no official sources available, here are the U2oob sources for all known EV fire deaths in the US, November 2024 only ...
>> 3 deaths* ... U2oob: Piedmont Cybertruck
*The fourth passenger is presently in a medically induced coma.
>> 5 deaths ... U2oob: Verona Tesla fire
>> 2 deaths ... U2oob: Bucks Tesla fire
That, and the The Limiting Factor makes the astonishing claim (19:28) that:
----------------
[EV] passengers have a bare minimum of five minutes to exit the vehicle before it's engulfed in flames, and in some cases over an hour.
----------------
In closing, predictably, The Limiting Factor claims (18:29):
-----------------
In summary, the media and commentators are pumping a fear narrative with EV battery fires to sell clicks ...
[Really? Show that for the 5 EV dead in Verona, for instance.]
... but the reality is that EV's are at least eight times less likely to catch fire than internal combustion vehicles [His source? Elon. (2:55)]
-------------------
Couple thoughts: most non-tesla EVs use pouch cells with little to no barrier. Those seem to be the ones shooting large flame jets. That's why I prefer the cylindrical cells, Even if they do have a chance to burn longer due to the slower chain reaction. Also, fossil fuels are always going to be highly flammable. Starting with LFP I think future battery tech will get us to an even safer point.
The big disadvantage to EV fires is the time to extinguish by firefighting or total material consumption. If it does happen on the side of the road for example it takes a while before it's safe to transport. Perhaps fire departments investing in a metal sandbox trailer with a picker would be a good idea. It would be useful for ICE vehicles too.
The hard part with EVs is that it's much more difficult to predict and prevent defective cell manufacturing events. The Bolt was a goid example. With a normal car it is easier with a thorough inspection and preventative maintenance to reduce fires. Not that those kind of inspections happens really ever by the average person.
Overall it is nice to see more data that EVs are statistically safer.
Andrew, you may be confusing pouch (as in domestic electronics) with BYD blade battery. The blade battery uses go and has highest rating in the nail picture test.
Bear in mind done (all) Teslas with LFP chem use prismatic ( like large bricks)
It is hard to find a verified example of a LFP blade battery fire. BYD are making 500,000 per month at the moment so the tech looks good thus far.
@mickjoebills no, I'm not confusing the two. Most (US at least) non-tesla vehicles are using ternary pouch cells. Mostly from SK and LG if I recall correctly. And yes, almost all LFP is basically BYD prismatic at this point. BYD, and to a lesser extent; CATL, and EVE are the frontrunners of LFP manufacturing/innovation.
Also life is full of people who have made mistakes buying items such as electric cars they regret but they would rather tell people how good they are because they like people to be in the same situation as they are rather than tell the truth in case they get ridiculed they would rather people be the same bad situation as them selves
As you point out that's true of anything.
Your argument is a non-argument because it applies so broadly.
It's basically "they could be lying"
Well yeah, lol. But that's not what the surveys and repeat purchases are telling us.
1/EVfiresafe definition of a fire is very important. They list battery runaways only. A fire, such as the recent cyber truck will not be listed. (based on fire chief Branagan’s statement the traction battery did not catch fire)
2/ Two more studies to include! Both related to studying ev risks in roll on roll off ships. LASH and Danish Institute ( both of these studies are in agreement with the data presented in this video) extracts below
LASH
* EV fires are not more common/more likely than conventional vehicle fires.
* The intensity of an EV fire is not necessarily more than that of a conventional car fire because most of the fire load comes from the materials used in the construction of the vehicle (plastics, interior etc) so the fire intensity is similar.
* The fire growth rate of an EV fire is not faster than that of a conventional car fire.
* Battery car fires can be controlled and extinguished by drencher systems among other methods.
* It is highly unlikely that you will experience an electric shock from fighting a battery fire with water.
* The re-ignition risk with an EV is higher than that of a conventional vehicle and the vehicle must be closely monitored after the fire has been extinguished
Danish Institute report
* All of the fires in the ELBAS tests could be extinguished safely.
* The right equipment and training of crew is a critical aspect for lowering EV fire risks
* ELBAS confirmed the effectiveness of drencher systems and boundary cooling.
In their executive summary, DBI finished on a positive note:
“In conclusion, the issue of EV fire safety onboard ships should not be a barrier to meeting the increasing market demand and support the green transition. The overall conclusion of the ELBAS project is that EV fires on ferries are not to be feared more than any other fire at sea. They can typically be dealt with using the correct technology, education, and training of shipboard personnel, as well as with coordinated cooperation between the ship and with emergency services on land.”
(Quoted from DBI Executive Summary page iii.).
I always appreciate a well contructed comment!
One Stop Shopping. Thanks.
One difference with ICE vehicles is that they aren't likely to catch fire while parked but an EV can ignite even when parked.
Hey light spirit I admire your verve in presenting an opinion without data to support it. Don’t forget to include fires started by ice that park and their hot exhausts start grass fires which has resulted in catastrophic damage, homes and lives lost. ( 4000 cars destroyed at Fort Meyer was cii ok included by fire investigator to probably have started by hot exhaust.) Ditto parking with overheated brakes ( a far greater likelihood with ice than EVs)
In respect to ice catching fire whilst parked well of course this occurs. Google it
I covered that. They are.
Combine a fuel leak with a hot engine or short circuit...whooomp. You're toast.
These are not myths
* no tune ups
* no oil changes
* no smog test
* almost no maintenance
* Less things to break
* no catalytic converter theft
* no engine heat ruining plastic & rubber parts
* Less noise to ruin the music
* Less vibration to shake things loose
* no idling engine to run AC or heat
* extreme acceleration (from 70 mph)
* Less stressful traffic jam driving
* No cat gutz in the fan belts 🤣
* no dirty oily engine bay
* no oil leaking on the driveway
You ignored hydrogen fluoride from the electrolyte
No, I didn't ignore it
I just left a lot of things out of the video that were neither here nor there
I could have made the video five times as long, and it wouldn't have strengthened the case
oil cartels and OEMs are desperate
The media narrative may be costing lives, but it is making money. Kind of like the US healthcare system.
EVs haters will loose sleep when they see the stats.
Yes, but you can easily put out a petal fire.
Petal? No clue what you're talking about
@@thelimitingfactor Likely Petrol.
I'm guessing you're referring to petrol? Please. Do educate us on how victims that have burned up in petrol fires could have easily extinguished them
When EV's are 50% of all road vehicles then we can subjectively look at data. Hotter and slower combustion sounds more dangerous as the
higher heat is more concentrated for longer. Your data sounds flimsy. I will not park/sleep in a hotel with EV's in the basement car park.
1) Covered in the video
2) Sounds like you're going of your beliefs rather than what's happening in the real world. Notably, you've provided no counterargument, just feelings.
3) That's fine. Vote with your feet. Clutching your pearls here in the comments doesn't change anything.
StacheD channel gives the real world situation of EV and ICE fire comparison in a vid he dropped recently. He's a first resonder that's dealt with both types of fires.
I just watched the video, and he uses anecdotal evidence rather than data
He makes some good points, but there's also a lot of flaws in his argument that are covered by my video
@@thelimitingfactoryes, he searches hard and wide to find negatives. For instance in the recent tripe fatality cyber truck crash the traction battery did not catch fire . He summised /guessed it was the low voltage lithium ion battery which caught fire.
This is a risk in many cars and caravans and RVs yet he tagged it into a Tesla crash…
Way more electric vehicles on the road than any other vehicles so the comparison is on point.
The data that he used compared fires per 100k sales. Just counting the number of fires would skew the results as you've probably figured out.
It good to know objective evidence but I have given up trying to argue with EV hating relatives . This just brings a tirade of anti EV propaganda. They all have just bought very expensive muscle cars , on credit. If EVs continue to get cheaper and improve the value of used petrol cars may fall dramatically.
I hope all cars drop in value. I currently have only ICE vehicles because of the economics( all owned outright with a TCO averaging
10 gallons of gas = 337kwh's - all goes to heat in a fire
Avg EV battery ~ 65kwh's - all goes to heat in a fire
ICE fires produce much more heat in total
Bear in mind that for the average EV battery, that's just the amount you can extract, and there's actually a lot more that's accessible if it starts on fire
@@thelimitingfactor Your right, and that's a good next topic....
Why do we only use roughly 25% of the battery capacity?
Everyone knows the end result to batteries when they get discharged to a low voltage. But what happens chemically?
Thanks Jordan
Keep up the good work.
Two reasons:
First, because if you cycle the battery more deeply, it causes degradation
Second, because combustible energy is different from reversible reactions 🤠
If it combusts, that's one time only
If electric cars are so good why is autotrader absolutely rammed with people trying to get rid of their crappy electric cars
I just checked autotrader and there are 14 Tesla's available within 50 miles. That's out of 15,000 vehicles.
Lmao do people really think evs are more likely to catch on fire compared to vehicles that literally have COMBUSTION in its name
Yeah, it boggles the mind
Niemals käme mir ein Tesla ins Haus!
gerne aber wlektrischer BMW, Volvo, mercedes, vw, fiat etc❤❤❤