I’m happy with the way Daria handled characters. No character was ever more superior than another. You could like and dislike Daria’s choices equally and the show never made you feel like you had to decide on your perspective. There were plenty of times Jane acted in ways that made her really unlikable, but you never disliked Jane because she felt real, and you knew she could change and grow.
@@VolkColopatrion She does slip every now and then as the series progresses, but she's still a likeable character. Of everyone in the show, I find she'd be the easiest to get along with.
@@soujemn5and personally giving into your emotions ain't really a bad thing, bottling them up is. This is coming from a guy that was taught to bottle up his emotions to the point of breaking and nearly killing himself due to not having anyone to talk to about them until now, it got to the point where my brain numb them for years just to not deal with them, ya know? Now even my own emotions that I just got back are too much and I have to force myself asleep with meds until I figure out how to use them again.
I was a teenager when Daria was a teenager, and me and my nerd herd were 100% a mess of contradictions. There are so many times I can think of that I now react to with the "Watch out, guys, we've got ourselves a badass over here!" It's cringe, but it's funny, and I kinda-sorta miss those days.
I think I can defend Jane here. Jane is an artist. She communicates through visual media, so it's reasonable that she'd struggle to put a message into words. As for the teachers, that's easy. Adults, in general, have downplayed and sugar-coated the problems teenagers face since the dawn of time. Their actions in this episode are just another example of that.
That I never understood and probably will never understand. Weren't they themselves teenagers once? Shouldn't they have had similar troubles, or at least seen their peers go through similar issues? Shouldn't they be able to understand that teenage life also has its own share of issues? Why can't they empathise?
@@floricel_112 I think part of the issue is some people reach an age where they get so wrapped up in their adult problems that they either forget what it was like to be a kid/teenager or see childhood problems as much smaller in the grand scheme of things.
Just my 2 cents. I believe the reason Jane and Daria go the negative route is not because they're iconoclasts or outcasts, but more so out of spite for being guilt tripped in to doing something they didn't want to do in the first place.
This episode shows both Hellen and Jake’s virtues as parents. Both are workaholics, both have their own perspective that can seem out of touch to her (and each other) but both ultimately are in support of said family.
@@nigelchaos Jake has his moments, but he's generally shown as incompetent. I'd love to have seen him more as a person a lot of the time, and as the series goes on he's actually somewhat Flanderized into more of a cartoon character when everybody else gets or has been very fleshed out.
@@LeoMidorithat's the only issue I have with the show, that he remains a caricature at all times. We never see any depth to his character, he's only there for comedy and isn't fleshed out as husband and father.
@@Kruukk I've criticized this too, because the moments we do have of his humanity are genuinely interesting. He's not great at his job and makes less money than Helen but dammit he tries, he's a distant parent but a good man past the layer of anxiety, he's loaded with paternal abuse that could be better explored, and so on. So it does piss me off that he usually got pigeonholed into being haha-wacky-antics-man most of the time.
I think that was meant to be the point, he's meant to be a caricature of one of those "hippy dippy teachers," focus too much on trying to be progressive and touchy-feely that they fail to grasp that they're also actively encouraging students to do bad things by accident. Think like those old seminars where they'd hold talks on signs of anorexia to kids, so they "know what to look for" but instead just give kids who are trying loo "lose weight" tips on how to do it more discreetly. Or the old "Stranger Danger" presentations, where kids were taught to be looking out for a shady individual in a trenchcoat or the mean teenage gang, instead of the friendly neighbour across the street or the creepy family member.
This was an episode that really cemented Helen’s character very well. She deeply cares about making sure that Daria’s negative worldview isn’t going to ruin opportunities for her future but she will defend Daria’s choice to stick to her views. I also like the insightfulness of Jake weighing in on his opinion since he does show that he’s a competent agent when the show allows for it.
Yes, this was a great episode for the characterization of Helen. I also think the art teacher's element is a bit underrated too in terms of your point about the potential impact of negativity. Daria may hold these views, but as she becomes an adult, she has to figure out how to express those views effectively. If the first reaction to your art by a a professional (the teacher) is that it looks like bulimics are being mocked, then maybe the delivery is off.
@@1bwash I agree. Ms. Defoe is a very understanding teacher who I honestly find a lot better than Mr. O’Neill who tries way too hard to “relate” to his students but does it to feel good about himself rather than the students.
This reminds me of a old episode of BraceFace when Sharon made a radical decision to release all of the frogs from the science lab, so they wouldn’t be operated on. Her mother was upset with the school for not listening to her daughter’s concerns, but she was also upset with Sharon because she wanted her to get her point across effectively without causing disruption and harm.
I’d like to add another reason why Britney actually could realistically be a “future leader”. In spite of it being apparently intended to imply (or at times outright show) vapid airheadedness (is that an actual singular word), her almost eternally bubbly personality would serve very well to bring down most people’s initial defenses and be more inclined to at least humor what she has to say rather than someone who’s more inclined towards anger, sadness, or even extreme seriousness (I call it the Elle Woods effect).
Or it'll just piss them off. I know it's hard to believe given the absolute clowns that we see attain positions of power today, but some people don't like leaders or politicians that clearly have more charisma than they do brains.
Also, have you seen that paintball episode? Britney actually has a head for tactics. My personal headcannon as that she went into the military after either college or graduation and even if she didn't make a career out of it she used those skills to her advantage.
Honestly this is one of Daria's moms best moments. When she calls the school and threatens to sue for altering Daria's piece and then hanging it without her permission.
Daria as a character tends to resist participating in things, mainly because Daria just hates being told what to do and resists any kind of pressure from her friends or family to be more social or to buff up her academic record. Also I don't think Daria is negative so much as she detests insincerity and people who try to sugar coat uncomfortable truths. She isn't someone who sits around thinking about death and depression all day like is purported in Misery Chick, she's someone who wants the truth to be told and often couches that desire in sarcasm and irony. She's not negative so much as deeply moralistic and caustic.
At the risk of spoilers, early series Daria is pretty rigid and black-and-white with her judgments. She hate hypocrisy and "fakeness." But she also sees things like smiling when you don't feel like it and being civil to jerks as hypocritical rather than basic societal necessities. This comes back to bite her in the butt a few times. Final season Daria has mellowed (somewhat.)
She definitely has neurodiverse vibes, I remember being a lot like this as a teenager and it was largely rooted in a lack of understanding of social niceties, and a feeling that everyone was 'lying' when they were just different to me.
I do like Brittany when they show her being smart like in the paintball episode, few times the shows done this and it's really great to see that shes not just a dumb cheerleader
@@karrihart1 I definitely agree. I think the episode "The Invitation" shows that Brittany is sort of socially awkward in a different way than Daria. She seems to really like Daria overall but is unsure how to express it outside of the high school hierarchy. She's never actually malicious or mean to anyone who doesn't insult her or try to mess with Kevin.
Brittany was the only person to get through to Daria when the latter locked herself in the bathroom while having an existential crisis over values and principles (namely being a staunch critic of vanity and shallowness yet was caught by her peers for pretending to wear contacts, and thus walking around blind, because Daria thought she looked a little better without her glasses and was receiving positive attention for it).
@@Theomite This is a great point. Brittany might be dim in many ways, but if she had applied herself earlier in life or were more proactive about it she probably wouldn't be nearly as ditzy. I appreciate that she decides to leave Kevin behind at the end of the series, she's wise enough to really does see how much of a dead weight he's been and is going to stay as.
Honestly, when Ms. Li said 'there's nothing wrong taking pride in your appearance' I think the reason Daria stood up to storm out, or at least the reason I would have, is Ms. Li given the context of the poster is giving a backhanded message that there is nothing wrong with bulimia based on the results. The thing that is wrong about taking pride in your appearance to that degree is that is it literally bad for your health, and Ms. Li doesn't get it and just wants what she wants. I would think Daria realizes its a losing fight, there's no arguing with someone who implies an eating disorder is fine if no one knows about it (which I know is not exactly what Ms. Li is saying, but changing the poem doesn't change the creator's intent about it).
I think Ms Li represents the status quo in this series, it's very satisfying when her plans are thwarted. I think that's why she's always at odds with Helen and Daria.
That's the point. Miss Li is incredibly corrupt and doesn't care about the students, only the image of the school. So, Daria was disgusted with Miss Lee and walked away or tried to until Ms Li kept pressing the issue.
Daria as a show is a perfect snapshot of that 90's countercultural abrasiveness that we absolutely are missing in current society because said counter culture is now "the culture" and everyone is afraid of being judged due to social media.
Because today it is extremely dangerous to go against the mainstream culture. Similarly to how it looked in the eastern bloc during the totalitarian era, the education in USA (UK, Germany) today became extremely politicised and dissenting from the mainstream thought line runs a risk of getting labeled extremist, dangerous and even being kicked out of a school. Daria would most likely be in huge trouble for her love of freedom of speech and her urge to say speak her mind.
no...the current re-articulation of Gex X culture strikes me as more self-righteously straightforward, and the only irony (or straight up bullshit) is used to seemingly put oneself down in some sort of passive attempt to call attention to what is hopefully seen as positive by others...Gen X did not do it that way. Gen X was more likely to use a deadpan delivery of an ironic message, coded so that it did not communicate with outsiders who did not get it, and in that way actually mocked or satirized them without the target of criticism having any idea what was happening. It's because Gen Xers saw themselves as nothing special, and not at all capable of making a large-scale or widespread impact on the world. Like the Boomers, younger generations seem to have more optimism and a sense of empowerment, for better or worse....that said, i think that you are correct about these cowardly virtual gangs that seek to make some point by showing a partial story on social media in order to make some point by humiliating someone who seems to have violated some code.
@@VioletDeliriumsI think you've really nailed the old school Gen Xer mentality and humor. It was so much more clever and subtle, it was counter culture. Back when being counter culture was questioning and being skeptical of authority and society. Now being counter culture is being seen as posing a threat to the herd's unity because you didn't buy the right product or support the correct #CurrentThing and didn't wear enough (or the approved sorts and kinds of) flair on your suspenders. Or didn't slap the right allowed labels all over yourself like you're driving a nascar for social causes.
@@thegrimharvest That's because I lived it. I was 12 in 1980 and 22 in 1990, so I lived through all phases of it... heard hip hop in 1984 when it first emerged into the mainstream and was blown away (my reaction: an enthusiatic, "What is this?!!!"). And I heard Nirvana in 1991 in the context of a decade of Van Halenite glam metal domination (my reaction: "That kicked ass! What just happened?", even though I was raised on hardcore punk in high school). Those things were shocking when they happened, but a given in the world of younger generations...I know Millennials hate gate-keepers, but they tend to be the first to self-righteously explain how it was back when, and they have no idea because they weren't there to see it and, more importantly, feel it. They have their own experiences that Xers can't have too, but I don't pretend to understand everything about them.
An episode about giving an IP that you care about to a third party who wants to alter it until it's got nothing to do with the original themes and motifs of the work? Too many targets for this punch line.
I can think of a few: 1. Romeo and Juliet being considered as "romantic", no, it's not. It's a tragedy. It's a relationship that causes about 4 deaths, including the main leads by suicide. 2. Retelling of greek mythology where the gods (especially Zeus) are considered good and Hades as evil. Ever wonder why there's so many children of Zeus? 3. The remake of Mulan making her born with martial arts instead of her training in the original, I guess it's more empowering nowadays to be born with magic fighting powers than struggle and become better over time
@@jovenc4508 1 word, Christianity. Also yeah the hate twoards hades, or any other death-related enity, is very unfair because they are only doing their jobs. Yeah I know people dislike death on principle, but its certainly better than feeling the death-causing pain and not having it end
@@jovenc4508 It’s likely due to the connotation of the Underworld and Hell though they are not the same thing nor are they interchangeable. There’s also a fear that people have of death which isn’t helped by the fact that the Bible used to describe reanimation and resurrection from the dead in full detail. It was chosen to be omitted (save for a certain resurrection) because there were those who wanted to keep people fearing death and to keep them under their thumb.
I think the major difference between this episode and Misery Chick is that Misery Chick is talking about Daria personally as a negative person or how people preceive her as a negative person cause she comes off that way. However this episode is talking about how the negative truth can hurt.
Wanted to add a little more since it feels incomplete. Was in a bit of a rush to finish the comment. This episode is also talking about how people wish to avoid negativity even if it's the truth. Jake in the beginning is a perfect example. Often times people ask for the truth and when the truth is something they don't wanna hear, IE, the truth is negative, even just slightly people will have an adverse reaction to it.
I always thought that the season four “family therapy” episode covered Jake’s incompetence the best. He’s intimidated by Helen being more successful and higher-paid than he is, and uses the trauma of how he was raised to express that negativity, but we also see in other episodes/scenes that the complete social ineptitude/cluelessness is also just a mask to get people to leave him alone. Like one episode where Helen asks him things about the girls, he gives completely absurd and clueless answers, we see him wait until Helen storms out, he cups his ear to make sure she’s gone, then goes back to watching the game perfectly fine. I also think the episode of he and Daria’s road-trip together covers the difference of what he thinks versus what he feels he can say really well. Not to argue with your interpretation at all, but I do like that the show gives it more reason than “the old man and military school.”
the painting honestly does a good message even with the poem intact. Both the teacher and the principal fail to see the scary irony of how beauty can have it's consequences in a teenage lifestyle when trying to keep said beauty. To assume all of your students that come to your school having bright futures is all a sham, a common delusional lie to perceive young minds thinking most of them can see their clear paths even if it's not always there. With the Teacher, he simply refuses to see things as a negative and would rather look at every positive despite how too much positive can become toxic. Also gotta love Helen for that awesome deliver she did to the principal about how much she's asking for a lawsuit for messing with her daughter.
Yeah but if nobody is receiving the message of your art, then it's not an effective delivery. The artwork is also way too zoomed in on the issue. It fails to communicate that the blond girl in the mirror is a victim of something larger.
IRL, such a painting would be much better without the poem where the girl has her shirt half lifted while examining herself in the mirror showing a sunken stomach/visable ribs with the mirror reflection being much more ideal looking. It'd show the negative effects of perception of oneself and the realities that come with it. As it stands it does legitimately sound like they're just mocking bulimia.
@@MizutamariVTNow that's a reach. The painting works with the poem as is. Besides, if you think the way the faculty reacted to Jane and Daria's work in-show was overblown, then envision the reaction painting would receive if they did create the painting based off of your description ? What do you honestly think would have happened to a pair of high schoolers who did like you recommended?
that scene had the same energy as old animated films where one thing was drawn differently and you can immediately tell that it will be interacted with
One thing I love about Britney is she's not afraid to do something badly. I don't mean that she doesn't apply herself because she does. And often times when she's doing something that leads others to mark her as dumb its cause she's actively attempting to learn a skill she doesn't know yet. And she doesn't let criticism hold her back. Like seen with the paintings she made, she was criticized and immediately went to find a way to improve on the thing that was criticized and attempt to better her artwork. She really is future leader material even if she isn't skilled yet.
It isn't unusual for someone to both long for attention but to also be afraid to do anything that would make them stick out. Daria has dealt with that duality before.
As a side note, I don’t think jake would fall under the dumb dad trope. He seems to more fall under the category of “constant nervous wreck on the verge of a complete breakdown”, in a way he’s kind of like the opposite answer to mr. O’Neal in terms of their demeanor/reaction to everyday stress (which is in its own way a clever commentary of extremes even in terms of demeanor are probably a bad thing to some degree or another).
The 90's really were the second golden age of animation, and arguably the better of the two. TV had gotten really smart in a lot of ways by this point.
@@ShadyDoorags Scary and sad, but true. Also, here's hoping you make at least two more King Of The Hill review, Shady! Would love to hear your perspective and view on family and moving on from a toxic relationship.
Daria's mother on the phone was probably one of the best scenes in the entire series. Daria and Jane don't have the experience to use the system and the trust to ask any authority for help, but in this moment they realise there are people who will fight for them. They realise they are not always alone in their struggles. The theme carries on into later episodes when they learn they can trust some others as well.
I think that Daria's initial reluctance to participate is pretty realistic for a teenager. I can remember being that age and doing extra work, wanting the credit for it only if it was received in the spirit intended. From that perspective, it makes sense that Daria speaks up to defend her work's themes and cares that it's understood, but is still uncomfortable being *the* person associated with a project/event that doesn't fit in with her sense of self.
One of my personal favorite moments from this episode is when Jodie talks with Daria and Jane at the art contest. At first, Jodie expresses sympathy for their plight - until she instantly realizes that they must be up to something - and then Daria and Jane immediately tell her: "Get lost, Landin." "For your own good." "You've got a bright future, kid." "You don't wanna be when what's gonna go down goes down." And Jodie, proving that she is indeed the smartest student at her school, turns and walks away. XD
Powerful? We all have seen first hand what happens when you put "people you would want to have a beer with" in positions of power. Brittany has moments of rare understanding of someone yet she's not bright. She's not as dumb as her boyfriend (which makes you wonder how he survived to his teens) yet, she is dim, very dim.
15:26 "She didn't want to see her daughter punished." No dude. It's because she's a good lawyer. If it wasn't her daughter, if it was Brittany, her mother would have said the same thing. Her mother has integrity.
My art teacher did this with a stipple painting of mine. It was a painting that was to represent a quote that would be integrated into it. I couldn't find one so I made my own quote: *"Sometimes destruction is more beautiful than creation"* And created a Space scene with a black hole and the words swirling into it. I had over 15k dots for stars and she put it up at an art show despite me saying no. I'm appreciative that others liked my work but I was mad about it on principle.
It's the reason why I didnt art class has I thought samething like that would happen and even if it did I would honestly destroy the painting in the front of the teacher
Yeesh. I'm reminded of a creative writing professor I had once. He wanted everyone to select their best piece, be it prose or poetry, and submit it again at the end of the year so he could make a little compilation book for the _class_ to all have. Turned out, he wasn't just having those books put together for the class. This jerk actually tried selling it in the campus bookstore without asking any of us for our consent, until it was found out about and pulled off the shelf. The hilarious part of it all, to me, was that most of the works in there were by a bunch of kids who had no actual desire to be writers...there was a tiny coalition of us who all became friends that were there to learn to improve our skills as writers, but most of the class were clearly just there taking the class because they thought it might look good on a transcript or something. They hated doing the assignments, especially if it went outside their tiny comfort zones, hated having to read/review anything that was longer than a page or two, and generally didn't have any literary understanding to grasp things that weren't being directly spoon-fed to them via the text. So why on earth would you want to _sell_ that lackluster work?
@@StewNWT I mean, that too...but it just kind of felt offensive to me and the group of friends I made in that class, to have our works sandwiched between the girl who thought that what was clearly a rewrite of a short essay on "What I did over summer vacation" (she'd forgotten to edit out some things that were in first-person) was "creative writing," or the kinda creepy girl who wrote disturbingly horny, raunchy smut poetry that was kinda off-putting. Yes, that the professor was doing what he did was pretty skeevy, but it was also just insulting. Like, don't put our work that we've all poured our effort into over weeks or even years (I was using this to workshop some pieces from previous creative writing classes that I had rewritten and revised, wanting more feedback...things I'd been working on since high school!) in your stupid little book next to the girl who thinks writing a page is too much effort, or the creepy girl who writes nothing but smut poetry, or the person who's clearly repurposing essays as "fiction."
She knows she's a winner She couldn't be thinner And you would never guess The struggle that's within her There ya go. Same message but less graphic. How hard would that have been, Mr. O'Neil?
One of the things I feel people who didn't go to hi skool in the 90s don't grasp about Daria is how STIFLING, OPPRESSIVE AND CONFORMING the culture was. There was no social media, no TH-cam. All young adult media was there to push a whitewashed sparkly perspective that was utterly disassociated from the actual experience. The few shows like Daria, my so called life and a few others portrayed this culture were both uncommon and censored by the producers. This, imo, because they actively went against the prevailing binary zeitgeist that you were either a part of the IN crowd or you were a loser with no future. Bullying, s*x assault and violence were commonplace. Racism, homophobia and prejudice were accepted norms. Im not necessarily saying this was intentional, as I feel it was more a result of the system not being in touch. In any case, I feel it's important to keep in perspective that there was no outlet for "outsiders" to connect outside of school, as such attempts were strongly discouraged and frequently treated almost as a criminal activity by authorities, in addition to the huge logistical difficulty. Daria was great, because it showed us weird intellectual queer kids that we weren't alone and didn't have to either conform to some Poindexter nerd stereotype or shut up & pretend to be dumb. It demonstrated the angst and disillusion that kids felt with being presented with those two choices as the only options available. The fact that Daria is a Beavis & Butthead spinoff is very telling here. I'm sure some people had a Breakfast Club or Saved by the Bell experience, but there were quite a few of us who felt isolated, trapped and afraid and shows like this told us we were not alone. Edited for spelling
@@Eet_Mia So, since you would have been ten in 95, you obviously didn't go to high school in the early to mid 90s when this show came out. Crazy as this may sound, half a decade makes a lot of difference. I'm really not sure what your point is, coached in jingoisms my 42 year old ass don't comprehend as it is. It's great you have an opinion and in no way was my comment some kind if blithe statement that things are fine now, but just the same, fuck you very much for being an ignorant douche.
3:03 FFS she doesn't like to be forced into roles. She values honesty and integrity. She doesn't want to be happy or sad because someone else thinks she should be. That's why she wanted the message on the painting to be negative in this episode. If they're gonna pressure her to fallow the leter of the asignment, she's gonna challenge the spirit of it.
So this kind of reminds me of my writing. I often write in my free time. A few of my stories are supernatural horror, and I want to write a book about traveling the back roads of California similar to "Travels with Charlie" Out of the dozen or so people I allowed to get a look at some of my works, the general consensus is that I need to be more cheerful. My horror stories, the few I have written, have sad or horrible endings, shocker. The work I have put into my travels book paint a negative depiction of California, specifically the government running the state as much of the interior does not approve of Sacramento. I would rather write truth or an ending that fits the piece than force myself to write happy slants and endings to everything. Que Sera, Sera
Try inverting them. Try an unhappy ending that is actually happy from a certain POV. Or, write an ending where good and bad both lose and all has been for naught for both of them.
You're writing horror, cheerful and happy endings are an exception. The only way you could write and stay true to the intended message is to use the cheerfulness to showcase and contrast against the horror. But then you've strayed from horror and moved over into sarcasm, irony and satire. Might still work, but then it runs the risk of being humourous, even if it's dark humor. You know what might work, is to write or edit one of your works to absurd amounts of positbity and cheerfulness, to uncomfortable levels. That actually might be pretty horrific.
As a teen I used to fantasize about getting lots of attention, but would avoid it like the plague irl. It's nothing unusual for an outcast introvert, who wants to influence the world but whose main experience with getting attention was negative
I feel that later on the show starts getting more self-aware and starts challenging Daria more, her encounters with Jodie in the last two seasons in particular pit both of their ideologies against each other and usually both end up losing, like how Jodie accuses someone (Who was most likely just judging her based on her youth) of being racist only to then use her family name with someone else to get positive bias, or how Daria spent weeks complaining about the soda machines but refused to get involved and do something about it. Also, the show begins to increasingly portray her relationship with Jane as mutually destructive once Tom shows up, there were bits of it here and there before but Season 4 really amps it up, Tom highlights the fact that Daria often impedes Jane socially by being overly judgemenal of the things she does, and once he and Daria start falling for each other Jane's near-pathological tendency to grovel for Daria's approval begins to come to a head when, ironically enough, Tom causes Daria to become more relaxed and socially active.
Yeah I think it was really important to challenge Daria to be productive. I think that's what's missing in many portrayals of these moody snarky teenager type characters. It gives young viewers who might feel like outcasts something to project themselves onto, but the goal shouldn't be to be as eloquent and snarky as Daria. The goal should be if you have so much to complain about, then do something about it.
... Jane never "grovels" for Daria's approval or anyone else. She and Daria understand each other on a very deep level. Honestly, I think most people would like to be as close as those two.
And the show was pretty self aware from the start. Plus, I think you're the one projecting a lot of your own issues onto this show. The subject of race isn't shyed away (Jodi and Mack are only a few minorities in a white majority School where they feel the need to do well), Daria and Jane are close though they don't agree on everything and they balance each other. The Tom thing resolved itself and honestly most people would have hated each other for decades after what happened though, Daria and Jane worked it out and still remain friends.
The point of the episode was to point out how the girls started out making an art project that showed the truth but the school wanted to wash over the fact that anoerxia exists. They squashed their message, so the only way to save their art was to destroy it, drawing attention to the original message.
Yep, that is the point. This is very common in the educational system. And it's not just paintings either. Anything that points out a harsh truth about student life gets squashed.
I love Helen. They did such a good job writing her - she's obviously a busy, working mother who doesn't really understand Daria, but she makes an effort and is on Daria's side when it matters. And like in another episode when Quinn says someone (I think the new substitute) was stroking her friend's hair, although it takes a second Helen reacts to it so she was obviously listening to Quinn's mostly pointless rambling.
I remembered watching this episode when I binged this show, specially the part where Daria’s mother defends her, that was a nice moment in showing how much Helen cared for Daria.
“Do you think it’s wrong for people to take pride in their appearance?” “That’s the point” The fact she cares so much about what she looks like, that she develops an eating disorder to appear thin and pretty
@@sacrilegioussasquatchit is more often because they're sensitive about their weight and they mentally believe they are overweight, and so they starve themselves or vomit any food they eat because weight loss can be difficult even with a healthy diet and regular exercise.
@@christianjohnson5379 Those are the symptoms, not the cause. A mentally well person does not develop an eating disorder out of nowhere. Usually, there are deep seated issues around food and weight already, or in some cases, autism. Young trans men tend to develop eating disorders due to a lack of early health care. I have known many who have even started to recover from their issues after receiving trans health care. Abuse, perfectionism and trauma also play a big role when it comes to these disorders. Often restricting food can be a coping mechanism. So does autism, a lot of people who have been diagnosed with eating disorders are also autistic. Autistic people might have a restricted amount of food they can eat due to sensory issues or they may try to conform into normality or it may even be a stress response. There are many more reasons people develop eating disorders, but i have not seen stories where "oh it was all going so well but i decided to diet so i could be prettier and it just got out of hand" where there isn't something else behind it
15:40 "she's got confidence and initiative, which accomplishes a lot more than competence and apathy" I love this point. I really liked this show when I was younger, but now I find Daria a little bit irritating in her self-indulgent "everything sucks" mentality. This was a good episode because at least she went out on a limb a bit, but still, the message of the artwork had absolutely no productive element to it. It was just pointing out a problem (and was she even actually being honest about the problem and her motive for identifying it?).
What's always gotten me about Daria is that it shows how nobody gets highschool life. I watched a girl crush up a little blue pill and short it in class. Do you think anyone in charge would believe that was happening in their hallowed halls? It's always a "Not in my back yard!" Sort of mindset where they might acknowledge that it's happened once or twice but they won't admit it's a serious problem. That's always how I felt here. Daria is trying to show that this is a real problem and it needs to be addressed, yet management and the parents are saying it couldn't possibly be a problem so she's being a problem. Cut to a few years later when I'm in highschool and a girl proudly says "yeah, I don't get periods anymore because I just don't eat enough" and the entire back fence behind our parking lot is lined with alcohol bottles.
Great analysis! I think Daria's negativity is a big reason why the poster's message got garbled for both Jane and Ms. Defoe. Daria's message doesn't come from concern for people with eating disorders or who struggle with self-image. Just look at her caption: there's no empathy or understanding for the girl in the picture. The girl is, at best, a target for pity. Just look at Ms. Defoe's initial interpretation. She thinks it's mockery, and that's not an unreasonable assumption. The main reason Daria got involved was to push back against the fake positivity being pushed by O'Neill and Li. And they don't care that much about the issue either. O'Neill just wants everyone to be positive and happy all the time, while Li only wants to look good. So there's a lot of cynicism to go around here. (As for Jane, I think she was mostly along for the ride. She wasn't super-invested in the art, because it's not something she wanted to do or thought up of on her own). Also, agreed that Brittany has potential for leadership. She's definitely smarter than Kevin, and there are even a few hints it's by a pretty significant degree. One of the tie-in books, The Daria Diaries, has a portion of a short story written by Brittany. While it's ridiculously flowery and syrupy, it's grammatically correct and shows a pretty impressive vocabulary. Plus, if you've seen "Daria Hunter", you know that Brittany is a capable hand-to-hand combatant.
Now that's a reach. Daria is not negative and neither was her poem. She might not have wanted to be involved in this project, but she stuck to her principles as she and Jane were further dragged into this mess via the faculty. Daria isn't one to go and make fun of someone with a serious condition and the fact that you seem to not get it is disappointing. If Daria and Jane didn't care about this thing they wouldn't have stuck their guns this far in. Hell, even when Mr. O'Neill & Ms. Li were bent on changing the message, they asked to have their names removed so they wouldn't be party to an endorsement an eating disorder. Daria might not be a joiner yet she does try to stand by her convictions.
This is my favourite Daria episode. What I love about the painting is that the real art is how it makes people react. At first glance we can't help but prejudice the picture, but when you read the poem it throws you back a bit. It reminds you that not everything is what you think.
that ending with Daria's mom turns a good episode into a great episode all on it's own. "Ohhhh wait till your parents hear about th-" "YOU DID *WHAT* WITH MY CHILD'S WORK" "ohhhhh."
10:38 No, her point is valid. Also, dude, she's a teenager. Part of the theme of the show (and where the show came from) is that they're teenagers that don't have it together. She's Daria so she has it together more than most, but you can't compare the emotional skill and experience of a teenager to what we, 30~50 year olds, have. But it is both. It's negative because it's what the school, and popular media at the time (again, this was during the heroin chic era), pushes. By saying "Look, this is what fervent pursuit of beauty is leading people into." It's also opening the door to say "Maybe it's okay not to be traditionally beautiful." She's looking for a negative because, for her, all she sees are problems and she was looking for a negative to portray among ALL the negatives she sees. It's not like she was looking hard to find one, she was looking hard to find the one. Again, I was a straight A student model student and even I felt there was something deeply wrong with the school system. And I went to high school AFTER this series ended.
I think this episode still makes sense with Misery Chick because Jane and Daria aren't being negative on their own so much as they are reacting to a situation they were forced into. It's also different from Jodie's speech in Misery Chick, since Jodie accepted the responsibility of representing the student council, and speeches like those come with that responsibility. Jane was under no obligation to participate in the art contest and you can't force a teenager to do something they don't want to and not expect at least a bit of an attitude about it. As for Jane and Daria standing up for their work and not wanting to be associated with it if its meaning will be changed, that's just artistic integrity. Daria even proposes a deal which would leave her and Jane at a loss, just so the school can have the artwork and they would no longer be pestered about it. Yeah, both Jane and Daria are lashing out, but they are lashing out against the people being unreasonable to them
I love that there is no moment of introspection for Daria. She is the audience representative, her perspective is the filter through which we see things, and giving her an immediate change of perspective on her mother would mean artificially pushing us toward an idea that the show has been so careful to construct without any coercion.
Idk if I'm being nitpicky here but the message of the poster reads to me more like, "look at this image of beauty, now look at what horrific things had to have been done to achieve that beauty that you are told to crave" Imo it's not, "beautiful people can have bad sides" it's, "ABC is obtained by doing XYZ, which are morally juxtaposed in our society" because no one sees a beautiful stereotype girl and thinks she's purging to upkeep her image, an image most girls grow up knowing they have to obtain at nearly any cost. This is also an episode that aired during the "heroin chic" era when anorexia was hyper visible and deemed a social contagion among teen girls who would crop up by the dozens purging together as a way to maintain weight.
Seriously, this episode is EVERYONE'S favorite Helen moment, where she gets that absolute MIC DROP moment. Honestly I don't think they needed to dwell on Helen coming to Daria's aid because it speaks for itself. Daria's grin after hearing it says all that she really needs to know, and that's that while her mom might not always see eye to eye with her or understand her, her mom will ALWAYS have her back when the time comes. And that her mom can sometimes be a badass.
Jane didn't misunderstand Daria's idea, they both agreed on the concept together over the pizza binge, her reaction and silance was because the Art teacher reacted so outright negatively. This is clearly someone Jane respects as shown by her agreeing by guilt to a project she didn't want to do in the first place and so when somone who's opinion matters to her is so clearly scolding her, Daria is trying to help her by explain they arnt being offensive or joking but that their message is another perspective of teen life. Plus this show takes place in the 90s when just 10-15 years ago diet culture was rampant, it was seen as only a positive. Eating disorders existed sure, but they weren't perceived as completely legit and as a danger as they were in the 90s the way the media in the 90s. Generation X was often perceived as the nihilistic and depressed generation of slackers and who were viewed by their parents and the media around them as brainless potheads who if left to their own devices would ruin everything their parents built for them especially their more realistic perspective on what life was like for their generation in the west. I think the point of this episode originally is about how older generations rose tined perspective of youth cluture should be invalidates and shames the real life negative aspects of what being a teen back then was, originally Jane in an attempt to show some backbone, was to flip their assumed message of an idelic to make them regret putting her into an art contest she didnt want to be in, the goal was to make the adults uncomfortable so they left her alone. But when she is met with hostility and shame over her message which is valid because diet culture was still huge in the 90s, it was only outsider subcultures who acknowledged that "hey maybe that skinny pretty girl is actually dealing with something pretty messed up and we should all strive to be exactly like her just because she's the mainstreams idea of pretty" especially when what it takes to stay looking like that often at worst involves developing an eating disorder. Thats why they become so defensive over their message, its real it came to them naturally the they engaged in behaviour that is seen as inappropriate for girls of their age, and it should be considered as valid as any positive one, so how dare some adults who grew up with different social pressures and world view try to force them to completely change their message for one that's not something they are ever going to feel themselves thats shallow and disngenuine to their lived experience.
I'm glad you understand this. This was how I felt of high school in the early-mid 90's. The nihilism was always there with my generation, Kevin and Britney are what I think of Zoomers today, they're sheep following the flock.
@ChristopherSobieniak Thank you, I only really understand this perspective due to my mum being really open about her experiences being young in the 90s and consuming 90s culture made by anf for people who lived it as a teen and get irritated that whole generations are stereotyped as one thing when humans are complex individuals, that being said not that big a fan of that generalisation of Zoomers as sheep comment there (one part I'm Gen Z myself and three parts that the same attitude boomers stereotyped Gen X as being and is tone death) misses one of the message of the episode that lived experience is complex and what you see on the surface is not all that exists even if you think little of it
The weirdest thing is that the school principal actually got involved with basically anything when i was in HS the most we got was a speech at pep rallies and him standing in the hall waving at folk during pass periods
Great video first off you make some great analysis of arguably my third favorite animated show. Though I notice you mention that Daria's attitude towards being "The Misery Chick" in this episode seem different than in the previous episode. I can see where you are coming from but personally I think both still work and actually reveal facets of Daria's personality. And I think Helen hits the nail in the episode "Write Where it Hurts" where she mentions how for Daria it's easier to make a snarky joke about a topic or comment on something when she believes no one cares about her or her opinions(at least in her mind). Otherwise she's content being the misery chick when she doesn't have to really stand for something or impress anyone. Hence why in Misery Chick her initial reaction to people all of a sudden coming to her when they've supposedly ignored her for so long is her assuming they're just doing it for themselves to make themselves feel better and push them away, not wanting attention especially when it's only because they want something from her. And it's why in this episode she's hesitant to participate since it's easier to criticize other people's perspectives then stand by her own which could be flawed. Now of course I agree with you that Daria's perspectives are not always right but the are consistent, especially for a teen at this phase in life where she would rather be left alone to criticize others flawed opinions then risk having to stand for her values and open her heart and mind to new people and experiences.
Daria is NOT "The misery chick" in any way. That was something that idiot Tommy Sherman said. Daria's a realist who has a defense mechanism when she's dealing with the world. While she's not a role model (because she never was to start off with) she does stick to her principles until there's concrete evidence to disprove her stance. Though, throughout the show she does understand that she'll have to be more flexible and have to adjust to certain facets of life, even if it is a pain.
Daria is not blindly positive, like most of humanity in the 80s and 90s. It was the era of "don’t worry, be happy." Going along to get along. Mindlessness over mindfulness, regardless of consequence. Daria is about true happiness, which means facing unhappy realities.
I’ve always admired Helen’s characterization as this stern hyper-competent girlboss mom who wants what’s best for her family rather than the “hot docile housewife” we saw in so much adult animation in the 90’s-2000’s.
Helen is hot too though. 😂 I notice Quinn makes a lot of jabs at Helen for looking "unattractive" in the show, it's not true, she's actually a real classy lady.
Outstanding as usual Shady. Loved how you broke this episode of Daria down. Also loved how you broke down "The Misery Chick" too. I hope you review more Daria episodes in the future, things get pretty deep near the end of the series. The two movies were pretty good too. Keep it up!
Helen is the mother that we all wish we had. Someone who cares about their child but is more than willing to stand up for them regardless .. There are so many of us who have never had a woman in our lives Like helen did for her daughter. ... She is a goddess
I found the entire collection of Daria on DVD for like twenty bucks. What a steal, the show was more or less consistently good through its entire run. Trent was cool.
Being aware of social issues doesn't make one negative or mean. The whole reason we have issues is because the system teaches people to be oblivious and only care about hedonistic experiences, while ignoring societal problems.
aw man, I can't imagine being tired of Jake, he's such a sweet man.. a prototype for Hal from Malcolm in the Middle. But I guess you do kinda want him to just man up at a certain point. I'm even more surprised you sympathize better with Helen, since on most occasions she shows she really ISN'T paying great attention and isn't nearly as in touch with things as she thinks. but she's a breadwinner so she has an excuse, but she never uses it. The most I ever felt for Helen was when she was openly admitting she screwed up, and that she actually respects Daria a lot and feels bad about letting Quinn get that way out of negligence. We get a couple of those per season. 4:28 I think the key point you're missing from that fantasy scene is that she wants to be appreciated *for what gets her crapped on in high school.* She WANTS to be appreciated for it, but knows she won't. When you're beaten down by the society you're forced to be a part of, you just withdraw and wait until it's over. Hence the Daria movie titles being titled "Is it ___ Yet?" For us types, school was this thing we just waited patiently for it to be over so the real life could begin.. heh.. so naive. we thought we had a life coming afterward.
@@Adrasdea Yeahhh.. but let's be real, Trent stole the show in that song. And both of them were depicted being pretty ineffectual and flighty and overreactive. Kinda got their gender norms backwards there now that I think of it. Jake's real moment to shine in that episode was when he sang about running his car into the tree. also "God god dammit" was good.
Here's the thing about Daria: it's from her perspective & her beliefs but as a teenager, you're still trying to figure all that out actively. I have flashbacks of my own teenage stupidity and moments when I backpedaled on things I was adamant on. Also, I had a lot of rage & emotions at the time. Sometimes, teens just want to rebel & while there are sometimes morals & beliefs that are the sources of those bursts of rebellion, it actually boils down to their importance as outlets for their feelings. Daria always comes off as dry & emotionless but there are so many episodes where her facade slips. In Misery Chick, it shows so well the muddled mind of a teen: to be different or unique but only in the way SHE chooses to be. She doesn't like others putting the labels. She wants the control to put the label on herself. ...and I think this is the same. She wants HER message to be the most resounding one, regardless on whether or not people understand it. (the faculty is totally wrong but Miss Lee is just so corrupt we all saw this coming. lol) Teens & children are still extremely self-centered & self serving but it's because they're dealing with so many new experiences & feelings that thinking of others is really hard to manage. Helen is also one of my favorite characters. She is so nuanced and can be both supportive & dismissive because she gives Daria lots of doses of honesty (while trying to figure out this mom thing) & not all honesty will be in Daria's favor even when she considers it to be one of the most important things in her life. By the end of the series, Daria really starts to take some of the advice Helen dispenses & we are also privy to her own perspective being challenged & she even gets it wrong quite a lot. She's so messy & that's so honest because on the surface, it looks like she's actually comfortable with herself but no teenager ever is. I like that. Also, as a parent myself, MY GOD I feel Helen so much now. I think I have acted in almost every way she has. I have also resorted to bribery because it can be just easier & like Helen, I'm so tired. lol
I really like Britney's pressence in this episode. Nobody is allowing Daria and Jane to be openly negative with their painting, but the two teachers who first struggled understanding the message tell Britney that negativity in art serves a purpose. That if we don't call bad things for what they are, they seem innofensive or downright appealing. Mr. O'Neill may be too much of an idealist to consider how hard it must be for someone with an eating disorder, but in the end even he recognizes that Daria and Jane's vision should be respected. Which fits his character perfectly. I guess that Britney's _Don't Join Gangs_ piece made him realize, albeit unconsciously, the importance of swallowing ugly truths. And in the end, she wins the art contest, which can be interpreted in many, many different ways. That, and nobody in the cast being completely excempt from critizism, makes this a smartly written episode. This one is crucial for making the series overall arc much more satisfying.
It is funny because it isn't what they had in mind. That's what she's talking about. It's the difference between art and advertising: art is made by an artist to say what they want to say; advertising is made by an artist to say what someone else wants to say. It's inherently phony
It's pretty natural for an artist of any form to fear sharing their work, but also appreciate praise for it. I don't think that aspect of Daria's character was off. I remember in middle school I got sent to the guidance counselor by a new teacher who wasn't used to my personality yet after turning in a journal entry. After things were cleared up and she understood I was following an assignment and not thinking about shooting up the school, she praised me for my work and even had me share some entries with class. I wouldn't have done that willingly before then, but with someone I respect the opinion of, like an English teacher, basically proofing what I wrote and noting that they believe it's worthy of sharing. Haven't shared my writing before or since then, but that teacher definitely made me love doing it.
I think the painting would have made a lot more sense if - let's say - the girl was clearly thin but the mirror's reflection shows her fat and blemished. Because then the viewer gets to see what the pretty girl sees.
I think the reflection should have had a different facial expression than the real person to show that despite the outward appearance and persona she puts in front of others, on the inside she's feeling miserable because of the pressure of maintaining those beauty standards
This is the episode I show people who have never seen Daria. Everybody's so great in it. And I agree -- Helen is such a great character, and her "Big Fat Lawsuit" speech at the end may be her best moment on the whole show.
I think the object beside the barrel in Brittany's painting is supposed to be a vase that's covered by her easel in that shot. Brittany is one of my favourite characters in the show and I love moments that imply she's a lot smarter than she lets on, so I loved that you actually analyzed her work in the art class.
This comment section feeds my soul (and gives me hope). So many thoughtful and intelligent responses. It feels like I'm in college English class all over again (which is a good - if not great - thing), but then again I'm kind of not surprised. I wouldn't expect anything less from people who watch 'Daria'.
You’re the reason I noticed and fell in love with this show and that’s sad because Daria is equal parts hilarious and relatable 😂😂😂 Thanks for the great video to cheer my up Shady and go hug your furbabies all 💙🐱💙
One thing I adored about Daria, both as a teenager, and even more so as an adult, is seeing Daria come to grips with herself throughout the show. She starts off apathetic, cynical, and more negative than necessary, under the guise of being a "realist". As the show goes on, she slowly realizes that she's just as much the over-emotional "stupid teenager" that most people her age are, and is forced to come to terms with that. I loved seeing her say the cynical thoughts I'd never say out loud as a teen. I never considered myself negative or a realist, but I'd definitely found myself thinking cynically and sarcastically about everything, and feeling a similar sense of apathy towards life in general... Not to mention, I've always been more introverted, actively preferring to be alone more than hanging with friends. I related very much to Daria's outwardly asocial behaviors as a teen... less so her anti-social behaviors, but there was still an appeal there too... I could *_never,_* lol. Actually behaving the quiet way I wanted always got me attention I *didn't* want. If anyone caught me brooding or essentially dissociating, I'd quickly find myself surrounded by too many people asking "what's wrong" when _nothing_ was "wrong," I just didn't feel like being around people. Lord, did moments like that feel overwhelming... and I couldn't even bring myself to be very upset about it, because it was a blessing that so many people wanted to make sure I was okay... And I wasn't going to tell them to leave me alone. That would seem ungrateful... So friendly smiles and light casual conversation to hide my introverted tendencies, and making sure to keep at least one friend nearby, even when I really wanted quiet, kept stuff like that from happening... As an adult, I appreciate seeing how she grows and learns to connect with herself, realizing she cares more than she admits, and how there's so much more about the world and herself that she needs to learn. It makes me wonder... If, instead of hiding that "dark" side of myself throughout my adolescence, I'd actually explored it a bit more... instead of shutting my own thoughts and tendencies down to avoid causing concern for friends and family, if I'd actually pushed out a bit more back then, with the questions I'd had... Maybe it wouldn't have taken me so long to find my answers...
This episode is also about our modern schooling system. It is all too common for people in positions of power in these institutions to fail at being responsible to their student body and their emotional well-being. Unfortunately, as someone who had to deal with the fallout of said concept, the idea of "but they look happy on the outside" is all too common a real sentiment among educators.
I’m happy with the way Daria handled characters. No character was ever more superior than another. You could like and dislike Daria’s choices equally and the show never made you feel like you had to decide on your perspective. There were plenty of times Jane acted in ways that made her really unlikable, but you never disliked Jane because she felt real, and you knew she could change and grow.
Same with Daria herself.
From what little I've seen of it I think Jane is boss all the way through
@@VolkColopatrion She does slip every now and then as the series progresses, but she's still a likeable character. Of everyone in the show, I find she'd be the easiest to get along with.
The writing on this show was top notch tbh
@@deviousdelibirdhope the writing will be top notch in the daria spinoff and reboot
"He fired you for being honest?"
"It was ENTRAPMENT!"
So, this was Jerry from Rick and Morty, in the 90s.
@@phastinemoon nah, Jake has a spine. It may not always be obvious but it is always present.
@@soujemn5and personally giving into your emotions ain't really a bad thing, bottling them up is. This is coming from a guy that was taught to bottle up his emotions to the point of breaking and nearly killing himself due to not having anyone to talk to about them until now, it got to the point where my brain numb them for years just to not deal with them, ya know? Now even my own emotions that I just got back are too much and I have to force myself asleep with meds until I figure out how to use them again.
@@phastinemoon No, he was emotionally neglected by his father as a child.
He had the same problem as Daria later
The further I get from Daria's age, the more I realize that teenagers are a mess of contradictions.
Boy ain't that the truth
Humans in general are a mess of contradictions, but as you get older they get pushed to areas you don't think about/encounter as much.
You're not lying...you're not lying at all.
I was a teenager when Daria was a teenager, and me and my nerd herd were 100% a mess of contradictions. There are so many times I can think of that I now react to with the "Watch out, guys, we've got ourselves a badass over here!" It's cringe, but it's funny, and I kinda-sorta miss those days.
People in general are a mess of contradictions
I think I can defend Jane here.
Jane is an artist. She communicates through visual media, so it's reasonable that she'd struggle to put a message into words.
As for the teachers, that's easy. Adults, in general, have downplayed and sugar-coated the problems teenagers face since the dawn of time. Their actions in this episode are just another example of that.
That I never understood and probably will never understand. Weren't they themselves teenagers once? Shouldn't they have had similar troubles, or at least seen their peers go through similar issues? Shouldn't they be able to understand that teenage life also has its own share of issues? Why can't they empathise?
@floricel_112
I'm an adult and I still don't know
@@j.c.2240 adult myself
That's what I have been saying. It's so obvious, yet sometimes you have to tell someone the obvious point because they won't get it.
Thank you.
@@floricel_112 I think part of the issue is some people reach an age where they get so wrapped up in their adult problems that they either forget what it was like to be a kid/teenager or see childhood problems as much smaller in the grand scheme of things.
"That's not what I said at all" is a pretty funny thing to have the principal say after she changed the message on the painting.
*sniff sniff*
Smells like a gas light
Just my 2 cents. I believe the reason Jane and Daria go the negative route is not because they're iconoclasts or outcasts, but more so out of spite for being guilt tripped in to doing something they didn't want to do in the first place.
Ah yes the whole "we have this event you can sighn up if you want, but we will guilt trip you if you dont" thing. Hate that crap
@@nathanjereb9944Sounds like work. OH so thats what school was preparing us for.
@@linkholder dear god...
@@nathanjereb9944mandatory fun
It probably both lol
This episode shows both Hellen and Jake’s virtues as parents. Both are workaholics, both have their own perspective that can seem out of touch to her (and each other) but both ultimately are in support of said family.
I think Jake works hard but he'd rather be at home and Hellen is a good mother - but she'd rather be at work.
I honestly see both as workaholics that care for their kids.
@@nigelchaos Jake has his moments, but he's generally shown as incompetent. I'd love to have seen him more as a person a lot of the time, and as the series goes on he's actually somewhat Flanderized into more of a cartoon character when everybody else gets or has been very fleshed out.
@@LeoMidorithat's the only issue I have with the show, that he remains a caricature at all times. We never see any depth to his character, he's only there for comedy and isn't fleshed out as husband and father.
@@Kruukk I've criticized this too, because the moments we do have of his humanity are genuinely interesting. He's not great at his job and makes less money than Helen but dammit he tries, he's a distant parent but a good man past the layer of anxiety, he's loaded with paternal abuse that could be better explored, and so on. So it does piss me off that he usually got pigeonholed into being haha-wacky-antics-man most of the time.
You know, Mr. O'Neill's alternate poem could be interpreted as _support_ of eating disorders, specifically anoxeria nervosa.
I remember thinking that when i first watched the show.
Pretty much. And with Ms. Li being as corrupt as she is I wouldn't be surprised if she was actively endorsing that.
All things considered l.
I think that was meant to be the point, he's meant to be a caricature of one of those "hippy dippy teachers," focus too much on trying to be progressive and touchy-feely that they fail to grasp that they're also actively encouraging students to do bad things by accident.
Think like those old seminars where they'd hold talks on signs of anorexia to kids, so they "know what to look for" but instead just give kids who are trying loo "lose weight" tips on how to do it more discreetly.
Or the old "Stranger Danger" presentations, where kids were taught to be looking out for a shady individual in a trenchcoat or the mean teenage gang, instead of the friendly neighbour across the street or the creepy family member.
@@BrightWulphExactly. And he always has to make it about himself and his own ego. He's like Mr.Peanut butter if he wasn't ridiculously successful.
This was an episode that really cemented Helen’s character very well. She deeply cares about making sure that Daria’s negative worldview isn’t going to ruin opportunities for her future but she will defend Daria’s choice to stick to her views. I also like the insightfulness of Jake weighing in on his opinion since he does show that he’s a competent agent when the show allows for it.
Yes, this was a great episode for the characterization of Helen. I also think the art teacher's element is a bit underrated too in terms of your point about the potential impact of negativity. Daria may hold these views, but as she becomes an adult, she has to figure out how to express those views effectively. If the first reaction to your art by a a professional (the teacher) is that it looks like bulimics are being mocked, then maybe the delivery is off.
@@1bwash I agree. Ms. Defoe is a very understanding teacher who I honestly find a lot better than Mr. O’Neill who tries way too hard to “relate” to his students but does it to feel good about himself rather than the students.
This reminds me of a old episode of BraceFace when Sharon made a radical decision to release all of the frogs from the science lab, so they wouldn’t be operated on.
Her mother was upset with the school for not listening to her daughter’s concerns, but she was also upset with Sharon because she wanted her to get her point across effectively without causing disruption and harm.
I’d like to add another reason why Britney actually could realistically be a “future leader”. In spite of it being apparently intended to imply (or at times outright show) vapid airheadedness (is that an actual singular word), her almost eternally bubbly personality would serve very well to bring down most people’s initial defenses and be more inclined to at least humor what she has to say rather than someone who’s more inclined towards anger, sadness, or even extreme seriousness (I call it the Elle Woods effect).
Or it'll just piss them off. I know it's hard to believe given the absolute clowns that we see attain positions of power today, but some people don't like leaders or politicians that clearly have more charisma than they do brains.
@@markcochrane9523indeed, that’s why I said most people. Personally, I wouldn’t want any of the characters from the show as a politician/leader.
El Woods? The Woods?
Or do you mean ELLE Woods?
@@slashbash1347yeah, my bad. Thanks for catching that, I’ll correct it.
Also, have you seen that paintball episode? Britney actually has a head for tactics. My personal headcannon as that she went into the military after either college or graduation and even if she didn't make a career out of it she used those skills to her advantage.
Honestly this is one of Daria's moms best moments. When she calls the school and threatens to sue for altering Daria's piece and then hanging it without her permission.
Daria as a character tends to resist participating in things, mainly because Daria just hates being told what to do and resists any kind of pressure from her friends or family to be more social or to buff up her academic record. Also I don't think Daria is negative so much as she detests insincerity and people who try to sugar coat uncomfortable truths. She isn't someone who sits around thinking about death and depression all day like is purported in Misery Chick, she's someone who wants the truth to be told and often couches that desire in sarcasm and irony. She's not negative so much as deeply moralistic and caustic.
At the risk of spoilers, early series Daria is pretty rigid and black-and-white with her judgments. She hate hypocrisy and "fakeness." But she also sees things like smiling when you don't feel like it and being civil to jerks as hypocritical rather than basic societal necessities. This comes back to bite her in the butt a few times. Final season Daria has mellowed (somewhat.)
@@pompe221 True, the show started off with everyone a bit more simple, but everyone got developed and deepened by the end.
Well damn if that ain't the most relatable cartoon character for me then lmao
She definitely has neurodiverse vibes, I remember being a lot like this as a teenager and it was largely rooted in a lack of understanding of social niceties, and a feeling that everyone was 'lying' when they were just different to me.
@@katfujioka212 No she doesn't, she's a straight man character.
I do like Brittany when they show her being smart like in the paintball episode, few times the shows done this and it's really great to see that shes not just a dumb cheerleader
I'm a staunch Brittany defender. She's emotionally intelligent, a great leader, and doesn't let people walk all over her.
@@karrihart1 I definitely agree. I think the episode "The Invitation" shows that Brittany is sort of socially awkward in a different way than Daria. She seems to really like Daria overall but is unsure how to express it outside of the high school hierarchy.
She's never actually malicious or mean to anyone who doesn't insult her or try to mess with Kevin.
Brittany was the only person to get through to Daria when the latter locked herself in the bathroom while having an existential crisis over values and principles (namely being a staunch critic of vanity and shallowness yet was caught by her peers for pretending to wear contacts, and thus walking around blind, because Daria thought she looked a little better without her glasses and was receiving positive attention for it).
It also shows that her idiocy is socially conditioned and that had she been encouraged otherwise, she'd be a hell of a lot more intellectually active.
@@Theomite This is a great point. Brittany might be dim in many ways, but if she had applied herself earlier in life or were more proactive about it she probably wouldn't be nearly as ditzy. I appreciate that she decides to leave Kevin behind at the end of the series, she's wise enough to really does see how much of a dead weight he's been and is going to stay as.
Honestly, when Ms. Li said 'there's nothing wrong taking pride in your appearance' I think the reason Daria stood up to storm out, or at least the reason I would have, is Ms. Li given the context of the poster is giving a backhanded message that there is nothing wrong with bulimia based on the results. The thing that is wrong about taking pride in your appearance to that degree is that is it literally bad for your health, and Ms. Li doesn't get it and just wants what she wants. I would think Daria realizes its a losing fight, there's no arguing with someone who implies an eating disorder is fine if no one knows about it (which I know is not exactly what Ms. Li is saying, but changing the poem doesn't change the creator's intent about it).
I think Ms Li represents the status quo in this series, it's very satisfying when her plans are thwarted. I think that's why she's always at odds with Helen and Daria.
@@jazzymidear3466 yes, and she’s always flipping back-and-forth between whose on the winning side so she can come out on top.
That's the point. Miss Li is incredibly corrupt and doesn't care about the students, only the image of the school.
So, Daria was disgusted with Miss Lee and walked away or tried to until Ms Li kept pressing the issue.
Daria as a show is a perfect snapshot of that 90's countercultural abrasiveness that we absolutely are missing in current society because said counter culture is now "the culture" and everyone is afraid of being judged due to social media.
Because today it is extremely dangerous to go against the mainstream culture. Similarly to how it looked in the eastern bloc during the totalitarian era, the education in USA (UK, Germany) today became extremely politicised and dissenting from the mainstream thought line runs a risk of getting labeled extremist, dangerous and even being kicked out of a school. Daria would most likely be in huge trouble for her love of freedom of speech and her urge to say speak her mind.
no...the current re-articulation of Gex X culture strikes me as more self-righteously straightforward, and the only irony (or straight up bullshit) is used to seemingly put oneself down in some sort of passive attempt to call attention to what is hopefully seen as positive by others...Gen X did not do it that way. Gen X was more likely to use a deadpan delivery of an ironic message, coded so that it did not communicate with outsiders who did not get it, and in that way actually mocked or satirized them without the target of criticism having any idea what was happening. It's because Gen Xers saw themselves as nothing special, and not at all capable of making a large-scale or widespread impact on the world. Like the Boomers, younger generations seem to have more optimism and a sense of empowerment, for better or worse....that said, i think that you are correct about these cowardly virtual gangs that seek to make some point by showing a partial story on social media in order to make some point by humiliating someone who seems to have violated some code.
@@VioletDeliriumsI think you've really nailed the old school Gen Xer mentality and humor. It was so much more clever and subtle, it was counter culture. Back when being counter culture was questioning and being skeptical of authority and society. Now being counter culture is being seen as posing a threat to the herd's unity because you didn't buy the right product or support the correct #CurrentThing and didn't wear enough (or the approved sorts and kinds of) flair on your suspenders. Or didn't slap the right allowed labels all over yourself like you're driving a nascar for social causes.
@@thegrimharvest That's because I lived it. I was 12 in 1980 and 22 in 1990, so I lived through all phases of it... heard hip hop in 1984 when it first emerged into the mainstream and was blown away (my reaction: an enthusiatic, "What is this?!!!"). And I heard Nirvana in 1991 in the context of a decade of Van Halenite glam metal domination (my reaction: "That kicked ass! What just happened?", even though I was raised on hardcore punk in high school). Those things were shocking when they happened, but a given in the world of younger generations...I know Millennials hate gate-keepers, but they tend to be the first to self-righteously explain how it was back when, and they have no idea because they weren't there to see it and, more importantly, feel it. They have their own experiences that Xers can't have too, but I don't pretend to understand everything about them.
@@thegrimharvestBoom, right on the money.
An episode about giving an IP that you care about to a third party who wants to alter it until it's got nothing to do with the original themes and motifs of the work?
Too many targets for this punch line.
I can think of a few:
1. Romeo and Juliet being considered as "romantic", no, it's not. It's a tragedy. It's a relationship that causes about 4 deaths, including the main leads by suicide.
2. Retelling of greek mythology where the gods (especially Zeus) are considered good and Hades as evil. Ever wonder why there's so many children of Zeus?
3. The remake of Mulan making her born with martial arts instead of her training in the original, I guess it's more empowering nowadays to be born with magic fighting powers than struggle and become better over time
@@nathanjereb9944
Hades gets the most unwarranted hate for some reason.
@@jovenc4508 1 word, Christianity.
Also yeah the hate twoards hades, or any other death-related enity, is very unfair because they are only doing their jobs. Yeah I know people dislike death on principle, but its certainly better than feeling the death-causing pain and not having it end
@@jovenc4508 It’s likely due to the connotation of the Underworld and Hell though they are not the same thing nor are they interchangeable. There’s also a fear that people have of death which isn’t helped by the fact that the Bible used to describe reanimation and resurrection from the dead in full detail. It was chosen to be omitted (save for a certain resurrection) because there were those who wanted to keep people fearing death and to keep them under their thumb.
@@nathanjereb9944 It's also in part because Disney had to go and try to make Greek mythology, family friendly for the kiddos when they made Hercules.
I think the major difference between this episode and Misery Chick is that Misery Chick is talking about Daria personally as a negative person or how people preceive her as a negative person cause she comes off that way. However this episode is talking about how the negative truth can hurt.
Wanted to add a little more since it feels incomplete. Was in a bit of a rush to finish the comment. This episode is also talking about how people wish to avoid negativity even if it's the truth. Jake in the beginning is a perfect example. Often times people ask for the truth and when the truth is something they don't wanna hear, IE, the truth is negative, even just slightly people will have an adverse reaction to it.
I always thought that the season four “family therapy” episode covered Jake’s incompetence the best. He’s intimidated by Helen being more successful and higher-paid than he is, and uses the trauma of how he was raised to express that negativity, but we also see in other episodes/scenes that the complete social ineptitude/cluelessness is also just a mask to get people to leave him alone. Like one episode where Helen asks him things about the girls, he gives completely absurd and clueless answers, we see him wait until Helen storms out, he cups his ear to make sure she’s gone, then goes back to watching the game perfectly fine. I also think the episode of he and Daria’s road-trip together covers the difference of what he thinks versus what he feels he can say really well. Not to argue with your interpretation at all, but I do like that the show gives it more reason than “the old man and military school.”
the painting honestly does a good message even with the poem intact. Both the teacher and the principal fail to see the scary irony of how beauty can have it's consequences in a teenage lifestyle when trying to keep said beauty. To assume all of your students that come to your school having bright futures is all a sham, a common delusional lie to perceive young minds thinking most of them can see their clear paths even if it's not always there. With the Teacher, he simply refuses to see things as a negative and would rather look at every positive despite how too much positive can become toxic.
Also gotta love Helen for that awesome deliver she did to the principal about how much she's asking for a lawsuit for messing with her daughter.
Yeah but if nobody is receiving the message of your art, then it's not an effective delivery. The artwork is also way too zoomed in on the issue. It fails to communicate that the blond girl in the mirror is a victim of something larger.
IRL, such a painting would be much better without the poem where the girl has her shirt half lifted while examining herself in the mirror showing a sunken stomach/visable ribs with the mirror reflection being much more ideal looking.
It'd show the negative effects of perception of oneself and the realities that come with it. As it stands it does legitimately sound like they're just mocking bulimia.
@@MizutamariVTNow that's a reach. The painting works with the poem as is.
Besides, if you think the way the faculty reacted to Jane and Daria's work in-show was overblown, then envision the reaction painting would receive if they did create the painting based off of your description ?
What do you honestly think would have happened to a pair of high schoolers who did like you recommended?
@@MizutamariVT as someone who’s struggled with bulimia in what way does it come off as them mocking it lmao…
Shady getting distracted by the donuts was so relatable. First thing I noticed in the scene.
Same
Same. I may have a problem.
that scene had the same energy as old animated films where one thing was drawn differently and you can immediately tell that it will be interacted with
Me reading this comment exactly at the time it happened in the video is crazy.
The Ring of Power has nothing on The Doughnuts of Sprinkles.
It's cathartic whenever the principal gets her comeuppance.
As a long time Bulimia patient this episode was one of my favourites lol
Hope you're better now.
"Just drink water bro"
@@TurboautismoI don’t think you’re able to say that. Bulimia is a serious problem and there is no “just do this solution”
@@TurboautismoWay to be a jackass and reinforce why Daria's and Jane's point about the message of that painting is still important.😑
@@seeleunit2000 cry 💀
One thing I love about Britney is she's not afraid to do something badly. I don't mean that she doesn't apply herself because she does. And often times when she's doing something that leads others to mark her as dumb its cause she's actively attempting to learn a skill she doesn't know yet. And she doesn't let criticism hold her back. Like seen with the paintings she made, she was criticized and immediately went to find a way to improve on the thing that was criticized and attempt to better her artwork. She really is future leader material even if she isn't skilled yet.
It isn't unusual for someone to both long for attention but to also be afraid to do anything that would make them stick out. Daria has dealt with that duality before.
I feel that. Especially as a trans person that doesn't pass and sticks out in every way possible. I don't want the attn I get and vice versa.
It's because they crave positive attention but are afraid of getting negative.
@@courtneybrady6124 I think you're exactly right.
that's exactly how I am. you want and hope for the best, but also fear the worst
As a side note, I don’t think jake would fall under the dumb dad trope. He seems to more fall under the category of “constant nervous wreck on the verge of a complete breakdown”, in a way he’s kind of like the opposite answer to mr. O’Neal in terms of their demeanor/reaction to everyday stress (which is in its own way a clever commentary of extremes even in terms of demeanor are probably a bad thing to some degree or another).
There are lots of times where Jake has absolutely no idea what's going on despite being in the center of it.
I mean, you're right... but he's also a bit immature.
Proto-Jerry
His dad did emotionally neglect him as a child.
Basically he's Tweek from South Park. 😂
I wish more shows are like this.
Smart, grounded, don't rely on cheap comedy, and isn't rushed with the message.
The 90's really were the second golden age of animation, and arguably the better of the two. TV had gotten really smart in a lot of ways by this point.
This episode is so far ahead of its time. Great choice Shady. Keep up the great work.
Not ahead of its time, just sadly even more relevant now
Censorship and propaganda have pretty much been a constant throughout history.
@@ShadyDoorags Scary and sad, but true. Also, here's hoping you make at least two more King Of The Hill review, Shady! Would love to hear your perspective and view on family and moving on from a toxic relationship.
Daria's mother on the phone was probably one of the best scenes in the entire series. Daria and Jane don't have the experience to use the system and the trust to ask any authority for help, but in this moment they realise there are people who will fight for them. They realise they are not always alone in their struggles. The theme carries on into later episodes when they learn they can trust some others as well.
I think that Daria's initial reluctance to participate is pretty realistic for a teenager. I can remember being that age and doing extra work, wanting the credit for it only if it was received in the spirit intended. From that perspective, it makes sense that Daria speaks up to defend her work's themes and cares that it's understood, but is still uncomfortable being *the* person associated with a project/event that doesn't fit in with her sense of self.
That and anytime you involve yourself in a school project that critique school life you'll catch hell.
Mama bear Helen threatening to maul the principal was always my favorite part of this ep.
One of my personal favorite moments from this episode is when Jodie talks with Daria and Jane at the art contest. At first, Jodie expresses sympathy for their plight - until she instantly realizes that they must be up to something - and then Daria and Jane immediately tell her:
"Get lost, Landin."
"For your own good."
"You've got a bright future, kid."
"You don't wanna be when what's gonna go down goes down."
And Jodie, proving that she is indeed the smartest student at her school, turns and walks away. XD
"She's got confidence and initiative, which accomplishes a lot more than competence and apathy." Damn, that was an unexpectedly powerful line.
Powerful? We all have seen first hand what happens when you put "people you would want to have a beer with" in positions of power.
Brittany has moments of rare understanding of someone yet she's not bright. She's not as dumb as her boyfriend (which makes you wonder how he survived to his teens) yet, she is dim, very dim.
And look what happens when you have confidence but no brains ? A total disaster.
15:26 "She didn't want to see her daughter punished."
No dude. It's because she's a good lawyer. If it wasn't her daughter, if it was Brittany, her mother would have said the same thing. Her mother has integrity.
My art teacher did this with a stipple painting of mine.
It was a painting that was to represent a quote that would be integrated into it.
I couldn't find one so I made my own quote:
*"Sometimes destruction is more beautiful than creation"*
And created a Space scene with a black hole and the words swirling into it. I had over 15k dots for stars and she put it up at an art show despite me saying no.
I'm appreciative that others liked my work but I was mad about it on principle.
It's the reason why I didnt art class has I thought samething like that would happen and even if it did I would honestly destroy the painting in the front of the teacher
This is why nobody likes artists. You guys are arrogant and annoying. Go get the therapy you need.
Yeesh. I'm reminded of a creative writing professor I had once. He wanted everyone to select their best piece, be it prose or poetry, and submit it again at the end of the year so he could make a little compilation book for the _class_ to all have. Turned out, he wasn't just having those books put together for the class. This jerk actually tried selling it in the campus bookstore without asking any of us for our consent, until it was found out about and pulled off the shelf. The hilarious part of it all, to me, was that most of the works in there were by a bunch of kids who had no actual desire to be writers...there was a tiny coalition of us who all became friends that were there to learn to improve our skills as writers, but most of the class were clearly just there taking the class because they thought it might look good on a transcript or something. They hated doing the assignments, especially if it went outside their tiny comfort zones, hated having to read/review anything that was longer than a page or two, and generally didn't have any literary understanding to grasp things that weren't being directly spoon-fed to them via the text. So why on earth would you want to _sell_ that lackluster work?
@@Mokiefragglewell not to mention the teacher trying to make money without your consent or paying royalties off of your work
@@StewNWT I mean, that too...but it just kind of felt offensive to me and the group of friends I made in that class, to have our works sandwiched between the girl who thought that what was clearly a rewrite of a short essay on "What I did over summer vacation" (she'd forgotten to edit out some things that were in first-person) was "creative writing," or the kinda creepy girl who wrote disturbingly horny, raunchy smut poetry that was kinda off-putting. Yes, that the professor was doing what he did was pretty skeevy, but it was also just insulting. Like, don't put our work that we've all poured our effort into over weeks or even years (I was using this to workshop some pieces from previous creative writing classes that I had rewritten and revised, wanting more feedback...things I'd been working on since high school!) in your stupid little book next to the girl who thinks writing a page is too much effort, or the creepy girl who writes nothing but smut poetry, or the person who's clearly repurposing essays as "fiction."
Jane understands the message she just isn't as good at expressing it as Daria
Yeah. It's not that difficult to understand. Jane's bright but like she said it takes her a while. It's not that uncommon.
@@seeleunit2000 She also sensed that the art teacher was disappointed in her, and she cares a little bit more about what people think than Daria does.
Jane was also seemingly taken aback by the accusation of making fun of eating disorders, so she fumbled
Secondary lesson learned from this story. Don't mess with someone that has a lawyer in the family.
I fell In love when she started an anti communist riot.
"... of course there are no embassies in Lawndale."
@@TJDious Which episode?
I forgot about this
Extremely based
Absolute Queen move.
Top tier gf material.
"she's got confidence and initiative, which accomplishes a lot more than competence and apathy."
that's a really good line, dang
She knows she's a winner
She couldn't be thinner
And you would never guess
The struggle that's within her
There ya go. Same message but less graphic. How hard would that have been, Mr. O'Neil?
Yeah, Mr. O’Niel!
He'd still find it too abrasive because he has all the spine of a jellyfish.
@@seeleunit2000 Probably
The 'vomits up dinner' has more of the desired impact. 'The struggle within her', not so much
@@LightLife4impact vs clear intention. I would take intention.
Shady, you said, "Oo, donuts" Right after I opened a box of donuts, I just got at the store. I busted out laughing 😂
One of the things I feel people who didn't go to hi skool in the 90s don't grasp about Daria is how STIFLING, OPPRESSIVE AND CONFORMING the culture was. There was no social media, no TH-cam. All young adult media was there to push a whitewashed sparkly perspective that was utterly disassociated from the actual experience. The few shows like Daria, my so called life and a few others portrayed this culture were both uncommon and censored by the producers. This, imo, because they actively went against the prevailing binary zeitgeist that you were either a part of the IN crowd or you were a loser with no future. Bullying, s*x assault and violence were commonplace. Racism, homophobia and prejudice were accepted norms. Im not necessarily saying this was intentional, as I feel it was more a result of the system not being in touch. In any case, I feel it's important to keep in perspective that there was no outlet for "outsiders" to connect outside of school, as such attempts were strongly discouraged and frequently treated almost as a criminal activity by authorities, in addition to the huge logistical difficulty. Daria was great, because it showed us weird intellectual queer kids that we weren't alone and didn't have to either conform to some Poindexter nerd stereotype or shut up & pretend to be dumb. It demonstrated the angst and disillusion that kids felt with being presented with those two choices as the only options available. The fact that Daria is a Beavis & Butthead spinoff is very telling here. I'm sure some people had a Breakfast Club or Saved by the Bell experience, but there were quite a few of us who felt isolated, trapped and afraid and shows like this told us we were not alone.
Edited for spelling
@@Eet_Mia So, since you would have been ten in 95, you obviously didn't go to high school in the early to mid 90s when this show came out. Crazy as this may sound, half a decade makes a lot of difference. I'm really not sure what your point is, coached in jingoisms my 42 year old ass don't comprehend as it is.
It's great you have an opinion and in no way was my comment some kind if blithe statement that things are fine now, but just the same, fuck you very much for being an ignorant douche.
3:03 FFS she doesn't like to be forced into roles. She values honesty and integrity. She doesn't want to be happy or sad because someone else thinks she should be. That's why she wanted the message on the painting to be negative in this episode. If they're gonna pressure her to fallow the leter of the asignment, she's gonna challenge the spirit of it.
I was 17 when _Daria_ premiered, and I thought Quinn was the villain of the show. At 43, I realize that the true villain was Ms. Li.
I was 21 when it premiered. The characters pretty much mirrored my high school experience. Adult authorities were always painted pretty negative.
That wasn’t obvious??????
@@plumjet09 Difference between _a_ villain and _the_ villain.
Of course Miss Li was the closest thing to a villain the show had. That woman was corrupt as hell
So this kind of reminds me of my writing. I often write in my free time. A few of my stories are supernatural horror, and I want to write a book about traveling the back roads of California similar to "Travels with Charlie"
Out of the dozen or so people I allowed to get a look at some of my works, the general consensus is that I need to be more cheerful. My horror stories, the few I have written, have sad or horrible endings, shocker. The work I have put into my travels book paint a negative depiction of California, specifically the government running the state as much of the interior does not approve of Sacramento. I would rather write truth or an ending that fits the piece than force myself to write happy slants and endings to everything. Que Sera, Sera
Try inverting them. Try an unhappy ending that is actually happy from a certain POV. Or, write an ending where good and bad both lose and all has been for naught for both of them.
You're writing horror, cheerful and happy endings are an exception. The only way you could write and stay true to the intended message is to use the cheerfulness to showcase and contrast against the horror. But then you've strayed from horror and moved over into sarcasm, irony and satire. Might still work, but then it runs the risk of being humourous, even if it's dark humor.
You know what might work, is to write or edit one of your works to absurd amounts of positbity and cheerfulness, to uncomfortable levels. That actually might be pretty horrific.
As a teen I used to fantasize about getting lots of attention, but would avoid it like the plague irl. It's nothing unusual for an outcast introvert, who wants to influence the world but whose main experience with getting attention was negative
I feel that later on the show starts getting more self-aware and starts challenging Daria more, her encounters with Jodie in the last two seasons in particular pit both of their ideologies against each other and usually both end up losing, like how Jodie accuses someone (Who was most likely just judging her based on her youth) of being racist only to then use her family name with someone else to get positive bias, or how Daria spent weeks complaining about the soda machines but refused to get involved and do something about it.
Also, the show begins to increasingly portray her relationship with Jane as mutually destructive once Tom shows up, there were bits of it here and there before but Season 4 really amps it up, Tom highlights the fact that Daria often impedes Jane socially by being overly judgemenal of the things she does, and once he and Daria start falling for each other Jane's near-pathological tendency to grovel for Daria's approval begins to come to a head when, ironically enough, Tom causes Daria to become more relaxed and socially active.
Yeah
Yeah I think it was really important to challenge Daria to be productive. I think that's what's missing in many portrayals of these moody snarky teenager type characters. It gives young viewers who might feel like outcasts something to project themselves onto, but the goal shouldn't be to be as eloquent and snarky as Daria. The goal should be if you have so much to complain about, then do something about it.
... Jane never "grovels" for Daria's approval or anyone else. She and Daria understand each other on a very deep level.
Honestly, I think most people would like to be as close as those two.
And the show was pretty self aware from the start.
Plus, I think you're the one projecting a lot of your own issues onto this show.
The subject of race isn't shyed away (Jodi and Mack are only a few minorities in a white majority School where they feel the need to do well), Daria and Jane are close though they don't agree on everything and they balance each other.
The Tom thing resolved itself and honestly most people would have hated each other for decades after what happened though, Daria and Jane worked it out and still remain friends.
The point of the episode was to point out how the girls started out making an art project that showed the truth but the school wanted to wash over the fact that anoerxia exists. They squashed their message, so the only way to save their art was to destroy it, drawing attention to the original message.
Yep, that is the point. This is very common in the educational system.
And it's not just paintings either. Anything that points out a harsh truth about student life gets squashed.
I love Helen. They did such a good job writing her - she's obviously a busy, working mother who doesn't really understand Daria, but she makes an effort and is on Daria's side when it matters. And like in another episode when Quinn says someone (I think the new substitute) was stroking her friend's hair, although it takes a second Helen reacts to it so she was obviously listening to Quinn's mostly pointless rambling.
I remembered watching this episode when I binged this show, specially the part where Daria’s mother defends her, that was a nice moment in showing how much Helen cared for Daria.
“Do you think it’s wrong for people to take pride in their appearance?”
“That’s the point”
The fact she cares so much about what she looks like, that she develops an eating disorder to appear thin and pretty
Dated message. Usually why people develop eds has little do with actual appearance and it stems from something completely different
@@sacrilegioussasquatch like what?
@@pyxn420 trauma, i know because I've known hundreds of these people and while yes, they want to be skinny, they usually have a hidden reason for it.
@@sacrilegioussasquatchit is more often because they're sensitive about their weight and they mentally believe they are overweight, and so they starve themselves or vomit any food they eat because weight loss can be difficult even with a healthy diet and regular exercise.
@@christianjohnson5379 Those are the symptoms, not the cause. A mentally well person does not develop an eating disorder out of nowhere. Usually, there are deep seated issues around food and weight already, or in some cases, autism.
Young trans men tend to develop eating disorders due to a lack of early health care. I have known many who have even started to recover from their issues after receiving trans health care.
Abuse, perfectionism and trauma also play a big role when it comes to these disorders. Often restricting food can be a coping mechanism.
So does autism, a lot of people who have been diagnosed with eating disorders are also autistic. Autistic people might have a restricted amount of food they can eat due to sensory issues or they may try to conform into normality or it may even be a stress response.
There are many more reasons people develop eating disorders, but i have not seen stories where "oh it was all going so well but i decided to diet so i could be prettier and it just got out of hand" where there isn't something else behind it
15:40 "she's got confidence and initiative, which accomplishes a lot more than competence and apathy" I love this point. I really liked this show when I was younger, but now I find Daria a little bit irritating in her self-indulgent "everything sucks" mentality. This was a good episode because at least she went out on a limb a bit, but still, the message of the artwork had absolutely no productive element to it. It was just pointing out a problem (and was she even actually being honest about the problem and her motive for identifying it?).
What's always gotten me about Daria is that it shows how nobody gets highschool life. I watched a girl crush up a little blue pill and short it in class. Do you think anyone in charge would believe that was happening in their hallowed halls? It's always a "Not in my back yard!" Sort of mindset where they might acknowledge that it's happened once or twice but they won't admit it's a serious problem. That's always how I felt here. Daria is trying to show that this is a real problem and it needs to be addressed, yet management and the parents are saying it couldn't possibly be a problem so she's being a problem. Cut to a few years later when I'm in highschool and a girl proudly says "yeah, I don't get periods anymore because I just don't eat enough" and the entire back fence behind our parking lot is lined with alcohol bottles.
You're not wrong. It's pretty screwed up and the cycle continues.
Great analysis!
I think Daria's negativity is a big reason why the poster's message got garbled for both Jane and Ms. Defoe. Daria's message doesn't come from concern for people with eating disorders or who struggle with self-image. Just look at her caption: there's no empathy or understanding for the girl in the picture. The girl is, at best, a target for pity. Just look at Ms. Defoe's initial interpretation. She thinks it's mockery, and that's not an unreasonable assumption.
The main reason Daria got involved was to push back against the fake positivity being pushed by O'Neill and Li. And they don't care that much about the issue either. O'Neill just wants everyone to be positive and happy all the time, while Li only wants to look good. So there's a lot of cynicism to go around here.
(As for Jane, I think she was mostly along for the ride. She wasn't super-invested in the art, because it's not something she wanted to do or thought up of on her own).
Also, agreed that Brittany has potential for leadership. She's definitely smarter than Kevin, and there are even a few hints it's by a pretty significant degree. One of the tie-in books, The Daria Diaries, has a portion of a short story written by Brittany. While it's ridiculously flowery and syrupy, it's grammatically correct and shows a pretty impressive vocabulary. Plus, if you've seen "Daria Hunter", you know that Brittany is a capable hand-to-hand combatant.
Now that's a reach. Daria is not negative and neither was her poem. She might not have wanted to be involved in this project, but she stuck to her principles as she and Jane were further dragged into this mess via the faculty.
Daria isn't one to go and make fun of someone with a serious condition and the fact that you seem to not get it is disappointing.
If Daria and Jane didn't care about this thing they wouldn't have stuck their guns this far in. Hell, even when Mr. O'Neill & Ms. Li were bent on changing the message, they asked to have their names removed so they wouldn't be party to an endorsement an eating disorder.
Daria might not be a joiner yet she does try to stand by her convictions.
This is my favourite Daria episode. What I love about the painting is that the real art is how it makes people react. At first glance we can't help but prejudice the picture, but when you read the poem it throws you back a bit. It reminds you that not everything is what you think.
that ending with Daria's mom turns a good episode into a great episode all on it's own.
"Ohhhh wait till your parents hear about th-"
"YOU DID *WHAT* WITH MY CHILD'S WORK"
"ohhhhh."
10:38 No, her point is valid. Also, dude, she's a teenager. Part of the theme of the show (and where the show came from) is that they're teenagers that don't have it together. She's Daria so she has it together more than most, but you can't compare the emotional skill and experience of a teenager to what we, 30~50 year olds, have.
But it is both. It's negative because it's what the school, and popular media at the time (again, this was during the heroin chic era), pushes. By saying "Look, this is what fervent pursuit of beauty is leading people into." It's also opening the door to say "Maybe it's okay not to be traditionally beautiful."
She's looking for a negative because, for her, all she sees are problems and she was looking for a negative to portray among ALL the negatives she sees. It's not like she was looking hard to find one, she was looking hard to find the one.
Again, I was a straight A student model student and even I felt there was something deeply wrong with the school system. And I went to high school AFTER this series ended.
I think this episode still makes sense with Misery Chick because Jane and Daria aren't being negative on their own so much as they are reacting to a situation they were forced into. It's also different from Jodie's speech in Misery Chick, since Jodie accepted the responsibility of representing the student council, and speeches like those come with that responsibility. Jane was under no obligation to participate in the art contest and you can't force a teenager to do something they don't want to and not expect at least a bit of an attitude about it.
As for Jane and Daria standing up for their work and not wanting to be associated with it if its meaning will be changed, that's just artistic integrity. Daria even proposes a deal which would leave her and Jane at a loss, just so the school can have the artwork and they would no longer be pestered about it.
Yeah, both Jane and Daria are lashing out, but they are lashing out against the people being unreasonable to them
This, this and this! Thank you!
I love that there is no moment of introspection for Daria. She is the audience representative, her perspective is the filter through which we see things, and giving her an immediate change of perspective on her mother would mean artificially pushing us toward an idea that the show has been so careful to construct without any coercion.
Idk if I'm being nitpicky here but the message of the poster reads to me more like, "look at this image of beauty, now look at what horrific things had to have been done to achieve that beauty that you are told to crave"
Imo it's not, "beautiful people can have bad sides" it's, "ABC is obtained by doing XYZ, which are morally juxtaposed in our society" because no one sees a beautiful stereotype girl and thinks she's purging to upkeep her image, an image most girls grow up knowing they have to obtain at nearly any cost.
This is also an episode that aired during the "heroin chic" era when anorexia was hyper visible and deemed a social contagion among teen girls who would crop up by the dozens purging together as a way to maintain weight.
Seriously, this episode is EVERYONE'S favorite Helen moment, where she gets that absolute MIC DROP moment.
Honestly I don't think they needed to dwell on Helen coming to Daria's aid because it speaks for itself. Daria's grin after hearing it says all that she really needs to know, and that's that while her mom might not always see eye to eye with her or understand her, her mom will ALWAYS have her back when the time comes. And that her mom can sometimes be a badass.
Jane didn't misunderstand Daria's idea, they both agreed on the concept together over the pizza binge, her reaction and silance was because the Art teacher reacted so outright negatively. This is clearly someone Jane respects as shown by her agreeing by guilt to a project she didn't want to do in the first place and so when somone who's opinion matters to her is so clearly scolding her, Daria is trying to help her by explain they arnt being offensive or joking but that their message is another perspective of teen life.
Plus this show takes place in the 90s when just 10-15 years ago diet culture was rampant, it was seen as only a positive.
Eating disorders existed sure, but they weren't perceived as completely legit and as a danger as they were in the 90s the way the media in the 90s.
Generation X was often perceived as the nihilistic and depressed generation of slackers and who were viewed by their parents and the media around them as brainless potheads who if left to their own devices would ruin everything their parents built for them especially their more realistic perspective on what life was like for their generation in the west.
I think the point of this episode originally is about how older generations rose tined perspective of youth cluture should be invalidates and shames the real life negative aspects of what being a teen back then was, originally Jane in an attempt to show some backbone, was to flip their assumed message of an idelic to make them regret putting her into an art contest she didnt want to be in, the goal was to make the adults uncomfortable so they left her alone.
But when she is met with hostility and shame over her message which is valid because diet culture was still huge in the 90s, it was only outsider subcultures who acknowledged that "hey maybe that skinny pretty girl is actually dealing with something pretty messed up and we should all strive to be exactly like her just because she's the mainstreams idea of pretty" especially when what it takes to stay looking like that often at worst involves developing an eating disorder.
Thats why they become so defensive over their message, its real it came to them naturally the they engaged in behaviour that is seen as inappropriate for girls of their age, and it should be considered as valid as any positive one, so how dare some adults who grew up with different social pressures and world view try to force them to completely change their message for one that's not something they are ever going to feel themselves thats shallow and disngenuine to their lived experience.
I'm glad you understand this. This was how I felt of high school in the early-mid 90's. The nihilism was always there with my generation, Kevin and Britney are what I think of Zoomers today, they're sheep following the flock.
You ate this 👏
@@disneytoysr4fun975 Thank you! ✨️
@ChristopherSobieniak Thank you, I only really understand this perspective due to my mum being really open about her experiences being young in the 90s and consuming 90s culture made by anf for people who lived it as a teen and get irritated that whole generations are stereotyped as one thing when humans are complex individuals, that being said not that big a fan of that generalisation of Zoomers as sheep comment there (one part I'm Gen Z myself and three parts that the same attitude boomers stereotyped Gen X as being and is tone death) misses one of the message of the episode that lived experience is complex and what you see on the surface is not all that exists even if you think little of it
The weirdest thing is that the school principal actually got involved with basically anything when i was in HS the most we got was a speech at pep rallies and him standing in the hall waving at folk during pass periods
Nice Rule of Three call out. I love that you're watching Daria and enjoying a lot of it
One could argue that was the reminder for when Daria and Jane did it later
Great video first off you make some great analysis of arguably my third favorite animated show. Though I notice you mention that Daria's attitude towards being "The Misery Chick" in this episode seem different than in the previous episode. I can see where you are coming from but personally I think both still work and actually reveal facets of Daria's personality. And I think Helen hits the nail in the episode "Write Where it Hurts" where she mentions how for Daria it's easier to make a snarky joke about a topic or comment on something when she believes no one cares about her or her opinions(at least in her mind). Otherwise she's content being the misery chick when she doesn't have to really stand for something or impress anyone. Hence why in Misery Chick her initial reaction to people all of a sudden coming to her when they've supposedly ignored her for so long is her assuming they're just doing it for themselves to make themselves feel better and push them away, not wanting attention especially when it's only because they want something from her. And it's why in this episode she's hesitant to participate since it's easier to criticize other people's perspectives then stand by her own which could be flawed. Now of course I agree with you that Daria's perspectives are not always right but the are consistent, especially for a teen at this phase in life where she would rather be left alone to criticize others flawed opinions then risk having to stand for her values and open her heart and mind to new people and experiences.
I think it's also a defense mechanism for Daria to hide behind snark and sarcasm. If nobody knows your real thoughts, nobody can make fun of them.
Daria is NOT "The misery chick" in any way. That was something that idiot Tommy Sherman said. Daria's a realist who has a defense mechanism when she's dealing with the world.
While she's not a role model (because she never was to start off with) she does stick to her principles until there's concrete evidence to disprove her stance.
Though, throughout the show she does understand that she'll have to be more flexible and have to adjust to certain facets of life, even if it is a pain.
Alright, more Daria! It’s such a great show and I’m glad you’re watching more of it. Take care Shady!
Daria is not blindly positive, like most of humanity in the 80s and 90s.
It was the era of "don’t worry, be happy."
Going along to get along.
Mindlessness over mindfulness, regardless of consequence.
Daria is about true happiness, which means facing unhappy realities.
Hate to break it to you, but we're still experiencing that.
14:11 Love the fact he got distracted by donuts 😆
I’ve always admired Helen’s characterization as this stern hyper-competent girlboss mom who wants what’s best for her family rather than the “hot docile housewife” we saw in so much adult animation in the 90’s-2000’s.
Helen is hot too though. 😂 I notice Quinn makes a lot of jabs at Helen for looking "unattractive" in the show, it's not true, she's actually a real classy lady.
Great editing, very clean audio, awesome work on the concept and analysis.
Outstanding as usual Shady. Loved how you broke this episode of Daria down. Also loved how you broke down "The Misery Chick" too. I hope you review more Daria episodes in the future, things get pretty deep near the end of the series. The two movies were pretty good too. Keep it up!
Helen is the mother that we all wish we had. Someone who cares about their child but is more than willing to stand up for them regardless .. There are so many of us who have never had a woman in our lives Like helen did for her daughter.
... She is a goddess
I found the entire collection of Daria on DVD for like twenty bucks. What a steal, the show was more or less consistently good through its entire run.
Trent was cool.
These Daria reviews give me life.
Dude i honestly love your breakdowns of shows. Somehow u always have a way to keep my attention
This is the number one episode I wanted you to review. Thanks, Shady.
Honest isn't "negativity", but a lot of people avoid honest subjects because it brings down and they just don't know how to cope with that.
Being aware of social issues doesn't make one negative or mean. The whole reason we have issues is because the system teaches people to be oblivious and only care about hedonistic experiences, while ignoring societal problems.
An entire segment.. just so you can proclaim your physical beauty to your audience.
Well done.
Ahh I’m so happy you’re reviewing more Daria, but I missed your review of Misery Chick! Gotta go watch that next!
She knows she’s a winner.
She couldn’t be thinner.
Except for the food,
That’s rotting within her.
aw man, I can't imagine being tired of Jake, he's such a sweet man.. a prototype for Hal from Malcolm in the Middle. But I guess you do kinda want him to just man up at a certain point. I'm even more surprised you sympathize better with Helen, since on most occasions she shows she really ISN'T paying great attention and isn't nearly as in touch with things as she thinks. but she's a breadwinner so she has an excuse, but she never uses it. The most I ever felt for Helen was when she was openly admitting she screwed up, and that she actually respects Daria a lot and feels bad about letting Quinn get that way out of negligence. We get a couple of those per season.
4:28 I think the key point you're missing from that fantasy scene is that she wants to be appreciated *for what gets her crapped on in high school.* She WANTS to be appreciated for it, but knows she won't. When you're beaten down by the society you're forced to be a part of, you just withdraw and wait until it's over. Hence the Daria movie titles being titled "Is it ___ Yet?"
For us types, school was this thing we just waited patiently for it to be over so the real life could begin.. heh.. so naive. we thought we had a life coming afterward.
He sings a whole song about being manly in hurricane
@@Adrasdea Yeahhh.. but let's be real, Trent stole the show in that song. And both of them were depicted being pretty ineffectual and flighty and overreactive. Kinda got their gender norms backwards there now that I think of it.
Jake's real moment to shine in that episode was when he sang about running his car into the tree. also "God god dammit" was good.
Been looking forward to you reviewing my favorite Daria episode. This episode has one of the best Helen moments near the end when she lawyers Ms. Li.
Here's the thing about Daria: it's from her perspective & her beliefs but as a teenager, you're still trying to figure all that out actively. I have flashbacks of my own teenage stupidity and moments when I backpedaled on things I was adamant on. Also, I had a lot of rage & emotions at the time. Sometimes, teens just want to rebel & while there are sometimes morals & beliefs that are the sources of those bursts of rebellion, it actually boils down to their importance as outlets for their feelings. Daria always comes off as dry & emotionless but there are so many episodes where her facade slips. In Misery Chick, it shows so well the muddled mind of a teen: to be different or unique but only in the way SHE chooses to be. She doesn't like others putting the labels. She wants the control to put the label on herself.
...and I think this is the same.
She wants HER message to be the most resounding one, regardless on whether or not people understand it. (the faculty is totally wrong but Miss Lee is just so corrupt we all saw this coming. lol) Teens & children are still extremely self-centered & self serving but it's because they're dealing with so many new experiences & feelings that thinking of others is really hard to manage. Helen is also one of my favorite characters. She is so nuanced and can be both supportive & dismissive because she gives Daria lots of doses of honesty (while trying to figure out this mom thing) & not all honesty will be in Daria's favor even when she considers it to be one of the most important things in her life. By the end of the series, Daria really starts to take some of the advice Helen dispenses & we are also privy to her own perspective being challenged & she even gets it wrong quite a lot. She's so messy & that's so honest because on the surface, it looks like she's actually comfortable with herself but no teenager ever is. I like that.
Also, as a parent myself, MY GOD I feel Helen so much now. I think I have acted in almost every way she has. I have also resorted to bribery because it can be just easier & like Helen, I'm so tired. lol
I really like Britney's pressence in this episode.
Nobody is allowing Daria and Jane to be openly negative with their painting, but the two teachers who first struggled understanding the message tell Britney that negativity in art serves a purpose. That if we don't call bad things for what they are, they seem innofensive or downright appealing. Mr. O'Neill may be too much of an idealist to consider how hard it must be for someone with an eating disorder, but in the end even he recognizes that Daria and Jane's vision should be respected. Which fits his character perfectly. I guess that Britney's _Don't Join Gangs_ piece made him realize, albeit unconsciously, the importance of swallowing ugly truths.
And in the end, she wins the art contest, which can be interpreted in many, many different ways. That, and nobody in the cast being completely excempt from critizism, makes this a smartly written episode. This one is crucial for making the series overall arc much more satisfying.
It is funny because it isn't what they had in mind. That's what she's talking about. It's the difference between art and advertising: art is made by an artist to say what they want to say; advertising is made by an artist to say what someone else wants to say. It's inherently phony
As someone who grew up in the 90s, I always enjoy revisiting Daria. That show is like a perfect time capsule of that decade 😊
"All too often, people don't want honesty, they want affirmation instead."
It's pretty natural for an artist of any form to fear sharing their work, but also appreciate praise for it. I don't think that aspect of Daria's character was off. I remember in middle school I got sent to the guidance counselor by a new teacher who wasn't used to my personality yet after turning in a journal entry. After things were cleared up and she understood I was following an assignment and not thinking about shooting up the school, she praised me for my work and even had me share some entries with class. I wouldn't have done that willingly before then, but with someone I respect the opinion of, like an English teacher, basically proofing what I wrote and noting that they believe it's worthy of sharing. Haven't shared my writing before or since then, but that teacher definitely made me love doing it.
I think the painting would have made a lot more sense if - let's say - the girl was clearly thin but the mirror's reflection shows her fat and blemished. Because then the viewer gets to see what the pretty girl sees.
I thought this was already the case, the reflection looks broader in the waist/shoulders than the back view outside the mirror.
@@Swirlstar But I mean it should be nearly cartoonish. So to speak.
I think the reflection should have had a different facial expression than the real person to show that despite the outward appearance and persona she puts in front of others, on the inside she's feeling miserable because of the pressure of maintaining those beauty standards
This is the episode I show people who have never seen Daria. Everybody's so great in it. And I agree -- Helen is such a great character, and her "Big Fat Lawsuit" speech at the end may be her best moment on the whole show.
I think the object beside the barrel in Brittany's painting is supposed to be a vase that's covered by her easel in that shot.
Brittany is one of my favourite characters in the show and I love moments that imply she's a lot smarter than she lets on, so I loved that you actually analyzed her work in the art class.
14:18 fun little detail. In the defamed picture, the text on the painting IS changed to mister O'Neil's version
This comment section feeds my soul (and gives me hope). So many thoughtful and intelligent responses. It feels like I'm in college English class all over again (which is a good - if not great - thing), but then again I'm kind of not surprised. I wouldn't expect anything less from people who watch 'Daria'.
Seriously!!!! I completely agree. The past will save the future.
I loved watching this show when it was on MTV. When I got Hulu+ a few years ago I binge watched the whole series and love how well it held up.
You’re the reason I noticed and fell in love with this show and that’s sad because Daria is equal parts hilarious and relatable 😂😂😂
Thanks for the great video to cheer my up Shady and go hug your furbabies all 💙🐱💙
The talk about censorship gets me thinking of the KOTH episode where Peggy discovers history about Arlen and how it was founded as a brothel.
One thing I adored about Daria, both as a teenager, and even more so as an adult, is seeing Daria come to grips with herself throughout the show. She starts off apathetic, cynical, and more negative than necessary, under the guise of being a "realist". As the show goes on, she slowly realizes that she's just as much the over-emotional "stupid teenager" that most people her age are, and is forced to come to terms with that.
I loved seeing her say the cynical thoughts I'd never say out loud as a teen. I never considered myself negative or a realist, but I'd definitely found myself thinking cynically and sarcastically about everything, and feeling a similar sense of apathy towards life in general... Not to mention, I've always been more introverted, actively preferring to be alone more than hanging with friends. I related very much to Daria's outwardly asocial behaviors as a teen... less so her anti-social behaviors, but there was still an appeal there too... I could *_never,_* lol. Actually behaving the quiet way I wanted always got me attention I *didn't* want. If anyone caught me brooding or essentially dissociating, I'd quickly find myself surrounded by too many people asking "what's wrong" when _nothing_ was "wrong," I just didn't feel like being around people. Lord, did moments like that feel overwhelming... and I couldn't even bring myself to be very upset about it, because it was a blessing that so many people wanted to make sure I was okay... And I wasn't going to tell them to leave me alone. That would seem ungrateful... So friendly smiles and light casual conversation to hide my introverted tendencies, and making sure to keep at least one friend nearby, even when I really wanted quiet, kept stuff like that from happening...
As an adult, I appreciate seeing how she grows and learns to connect with herself, realizing she cares more than she admits, and how there's so much more about the world and herself that she needs to learn. It makes me wonder... If, instead of hiding that "dark" side of myself throughout my adolescence, I'd actually explored it a bit more... instead of shutting my own thoughts and tendencies down to avoid causing concern for friends and family, if I'd actually pushed out a bit more back then, with the questions I'd had... Maybe it wouldn't have taken me so long to find my answers...
1:55 Caught me off guard with the Magic School Bus reference🤣
Always a good day when Shady uploads a new video. Did you hear about Dales voice actor passing away?
Wait, what!?
@@dovahkiin6488 he passed away a few days ago
Rip Rusty Shackleford
This episode is also about our modern schooling system. It is all too common for people in positions of power in these institutions to fail at being responsible to their student body and their emotional well-being. Unfortunately, as someone who had to deal with the fallout of said concept, the idea of "but they look happy on the outside" is all too common a real sentiment among educators.