SANS IS A DARKNER | Undertale + Deltarune Theory
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ม.ค. 2020
- This video is MASSIVE and took a LONG time to craft. I seriously started researching it close to a year ago, setting it down a few times, and finally spending months finalizing the script, editing, and everything else. I hope it paid off!!
Yes, the thumbnail is poking fun at the Sans is Ness theory video. I've had that thumbnail concept for so long! I even buried a joke about it in that Gaster video ;)
Gaster Evidence series ► • (OLD - Please watch ne...
Hopefully we can address some of Deltarune and Undertale's biggest questions about Darkners, and Sans specifically. Maybe about his brother (Papyrus? Lancer?) and things like Sans blood while we're here.
HUGE shoutout to Celly-does-art. They had done the same research as myself, and drew many of the same conclusions, while tying in a few points that I had missed. Thank you so much! Please go check them out ► / celly-does-art
Do I expect everything in this video to end up being 100% accurate? Probably not. It's like 95% fact, and 5% conjecture. So there are likely to be a few things proven wrong.
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Official site ► 2leftthumbs.com - เกม
A super common argument against I'm seeing, has to do with Sans ability to dodge (31:50), and how I compare that to the Darkner's dodging.
Many have pointed to Undyne discussing their fight with Asgore:
* Once, to prove I was the strongest, I tried to fight ASGORE.
* Emphasis on TRIED.
* I couldn't land a single blow on him!
I have two possible arguments against this.
1. When a monster attacks our human hit box, we can move around inside it and dodge their attacks. Yet no normal monster seems to have this ability. However our attacks are represented from a monster's perspective is not something they seem able to avoid. If that is the case, then perhaps monsters can dodge other monsters, but are either unable (or have not yet learned how) to dodge human attacks?
Sans is atypical: either a Darkner with the dodge ability, or simply a monster able to exploit other abilities like time travel/ space manipulation.
OR
2. One theory is that Frisk is able to dodge, not just because they're a human, but because they have Determination.
It has been speculated that Asgore is able to utilize his Red Trident (thought to be infused with Determination) to dodge!
I share these not to tell people they're wrong, or to discourage others from sharing! I had just typed out these arguments about 5 separate times, with 100s of comments left to read, and figured a pinned post would be more useful. Please, feel free to poke holes in this! That's what this theorizing is all about :)
Thank you all so much for watching, sharing, and leaving your lovely comments!!
You said that Lightners appear to not use magic. But susie uses magic in the dark world.
Yee
It is unclear if Susie is using magic, or if her axe is magic.
If she is using magic herself, it is a product of the Dark World. There are no examples of Lightners using magic in their own world.
Interesting point there. I can easily see that being an option, its very plausible.
I love hearing such interesting and fun and really thought out theories! Its fun to hear someones perspective and turn it in to my own :3 uwu
@@2leftthumbs I dont know if my last comment got through, so ill just add another one. Anyway, it is
Darkners do have a health bar, its only shown in the in battle menus next to their name. Sans does not have a health bar anywhere though.
sans is a human, sans is a monster, sans is a darkner...
at this point, sans is the kid that chooses the power of having all powers in kindergarden.
That is the funniest possible comparison. I love it!
The dude actually has no death condition, any attempts at truly killing him with code stuff crashes the game, so seems in character.
Yup
Hey wanna know something in a au he actually is
if you apply the many world theory, maybe he is all of these things?
Toby: we should keep sans with the same design in Deltarune
Temmie: why
Toby: it's funny, and theorists will go wild
Toby: ...or is it just an excuse for being lazy? Hell if I know ;)
That's why he's called the annoying dog
MatPat: WRITE THAT DOWN! WRITE THAT DOWN!
@@armintargaryen9216 it's a reference to how sans is lazy????????
@@armintargaryen9216 sans was too lazy to change his outfit
So thats why Sans is so strong, he's an Isekai protagonist
Lets hope there’s no Sans harem.
@@labcoat-1969 didnt know ur mom is a hivemind
@@labcoat-1969 Don't worry, there is only one toriel.
@@lpfan4491 the au’s would like a word
Hello, knight
"the dark world has real consequences"
Dead Berdly: seems legit
Traumatized Noelle: seems legit
Indeed- now how shall we deal with that purple dinosaur?
Dead Berdly:
You know that this video was made before deltarune chapter 2, right?
@@qris8013 I know, I was pointing out how chapter 2 basically confirmed one of his statement
@@qris8013 so before deltarune existed? seems legit
No one:
Gaster behind the tree: can I offer you a nice egg in this trying times?
Lol
_Please accept this apology egg._
Gaster's head looks like an egg kind of
no it temmie
@@uni5396. Eg will hach!
Tem PROUD PARENT :D
"Sans is Sans"
Hmm yes the floor here is made out of floor
The floor is made of floor,,,, FROM ANOTHER UNIVERSE!!!!!
@@milorca4412 :0
That makes a lot of sense. Who knew the floor is made out of the floor!?! :O
Dang beat me to it
Are you sure that its not that sans is the floor?
Re: massive amounts of foresight
You gotta remember, Toby used to work on Homestuck, a comic with a seemingly throwaway line in the first 10 or so pages about a book being "so heavy it could kill a cat if you dropped it!"
9000-ish pages later, we find out that, as a key plot point, one of the main character's cats...was killed by that *exact* book being dropped on it.
Regardless of what you think of Hussie, Toby learned from the best when it comes to setting up things years and years in advance - the entire ending of Problem Sleuth involves almost every single event that occurred throughout the rest of the story, no matter how inane or absurd they were.
👏👏👏👏Yes!!
that's called Chekhov's gun or the rule of Chekhov's gun
homestuck isnt even 9000 pages long did you mean 900
@@zoeyuroboros5739 No I meant multiple thousands, excuse me for reading hamsteak once and then going back to problem sleuth
@@Trogdorbad the exact page is page 4498
My new headcanon is that sans used those "teleportation rooms" so much that eventually he figured out how to do it without the rooms/devices
Goners:"We can teleport!"
Sans:"me too."
@@lpfan4491 Maybe It's not just a coincidence...
Thats terrafying
@@lealista_imperial do you mean coincidence or are you shipping sans and gaster
@@mrblakeboy1420 coincidence i don't know what acquaintance means
damn russian is way better
The theory of gaster giving us an egg is literally so fucking funny
-Until you realize EGG in wingdings is a knight's-
-pattern in chess-
@@leedlelel2373 -i tested this out, and holy fuck you're actually right??-
Why do I imagine after gaster giving us the egg laughing his ass off while fading out of existence again
Egg
He just wanted to give you an egg in these trying times.
"Who is under the Sans' mask?"
*Rips off mask to reveal...*
"Sans!?!?!"
:O
wtf!!!!
B:O
@@theredknight3736 B\:O
HOW I THOUGHT IT WAS BILL NYE THE SCIENCE GUY
I do believe sans is a darkner, but doesnt that raise questions about how hes in the overworld? Lancer, Rouxls, and especially Spamton showed hard evidence that Darkners can't really leave
It sure does, but it also raises questions about how Ralsei was able to get the cyber world without being an object carried around by Kris. MAYBE darkners like Ralsei who came from the original Dark Fountain, the one of pure darkness, can actually go to the overworld. IF sans is actually a darkner, more than anything he has to be connected to Ralsei instead of the darkners like Lancer, Queen, etc.
Although sans is magical, so who knows
Dude just teleported out
they cant leave, but what if someone figured out how to do it... someone really smart and understands dimensions and timelines? someone who's came in contact with darkners and possibly studies them.
@@akaiichi3146 oh hoo
Another connection between Sans and cards is that according to the art book he was originally "going to be running poker at the casino", but "there's no casino is there...?"
Also in the dog shrine he is playing cards
Bazinga
That bazinga threw me off 💀🤧
Dfgtdueudcturdjxt yo rhsxtu
Bro thinks he's Sheldon.
“Does that mean there are dogs inside?”
“i mean. i wouldnt rule it out.”
*he knows*
Hmmm dogs are inside dogs so pregnant
The Dog Amalgamate
THEY know. They both know.
A all different world aye?
Holy shit he does.
TWO THINGS (one debunk and one observation)
22:35 Toriel’s red eyes were a mistake made by Toby spriting. In the Kickstarter files when Toriel is holding a pie, it’s the same red as her eyes on the entire black background! When Toby must’ve recolored it, he must have forgot the eye color!
Do you remember that crossword Sans had? It’s Ice-E’s. There is no Ice-E’s in Undertale. However there is an Ice-E’s in deltarune. And isn’t it convenient how the crossword looks like a kids restaurant activity?
I checked on the Kickstarter image, and the actual game files. It appears that yes, without any lost resolution or compression, both images use hex #400000. Good catch! I don't know precisely the workflow for sprite creation. But there is a chance that is where the red eyes came from!
19:46 covers the Ice-E puzzle. I understand that it's a long video, and it can be easy to miss something that I only spent like 10 seconds on. Just glad you agree that it likely has some significance ;)
one thing i noticed is that lancer has no walking animation. not sure if that’s relevant to anything, but it seems as if it’s worth noting.
Cat the Destoryer heelys
@@krysys9703 heelys are cool. also papyrus can do a luigi floaty jump but that's not relevant at all
@@maggieent3215 That's probably just for comedic effect, but I could be wrong.
I remember during my first play through of deltarune, the part where Sans said he's never met kris before genuinely gave me chills
The fact that you are given the option to ask sans about that is more freaky, because Kris also doesn't seem to know him.
@@sayyidassons9332 It's because the player is controlling Kris, and Toby Fox recommended the player completes Undertale before playing Deltarune.
It made me kinda Sad, tbh.
I dislike Sans quite a bit, but seeing him in Deltarune (A Completely New and Unknown world for me) gave me a feeling of Hope, Relief that Someone I Knew was there
And then he said He didn’t know Kris, and I did not see the Wink so I was just Sad afterwards
@@sneezewax3567 But even the PLAYER saying that, instead of bringing up a certain meme, is pretty out of character for them. 🤔
@@thealien_lookingthing7116... he did wink tho?
Sans dosen't know abour blood? Clearly you forgot about ANIME. I'm serious - Alphys has human anime, which commonly portrays blood.
Also I'm not sure about the entire 'ploy for empathy' thing as an option, it seems more likely that Sans just carries around ketchup as a snack.
But at the end of the day the little blood on the lip is the major answer to this theory, unless it just splashed there from the cut
Maybe Alphys only got the censored 4kids dubs.
@@lpfan4491 I guess that's where Papyrus got the ideas for his contraptions
it makes sense to me that sans would try an appeal to empathy. that seems to be his entire strategy in neutral routes. if you kill someone, he guilts you about it. if you kill papyrus, he asks if you dont have a responsibility to do the right thing. he cant stop you, so his only hope is you have enough of a conscience to stop yourself.
sans is monster, human, darkner, and now anime?
“Often reading the protagonist’s expressions”
-_-
Well that’s clearly the expression of someone who’s just plainly annoyed. Perhaps one of the weeb variety.
@@m1ss1ngnumb3r yes
Well I guess that’s makes him even stronger in that
_-_
@That one web with the annoyed face I see u r a man of culture as well
"We don't really see much under Sans' clothes"
DeviantArt: Are you sure about that?
Oh.... oh no....
*bring forth the holy hand grenade*
You wanna see... *a laser beam?*
They're gonna feel real dumb when they realize sans has flesh under there
oh, don't remind me
Deltarune Chapter 2 does kind of shoot this theory in the head though, as Darkeners like Lancer and Rouxls both turn into inanimate objects (playing cards, in their cases) in the Overworld, whereas Sans doesn't. If Sans was a Darkener, that would mean that the Underground (the setting of Undertale) would also have to be in a Dark World, which _could_ _maybe_ be true, but there's no evidence to support it. Furthermore, Ralsei, who is presumably a Darkener and not the Dark World version of Asriel (as he is in college, not hanging out in the Dark World), has an HP bar, so Sans not seeming to have one proves nothing.
Ralsei may or may not be a darkner, since we never actually see how or when he transports to the library dark world. If he's able to teleport, presumably he can also teleport to the surface world. If he traveled to the library dark world by traversing the surface world, then he's able to get to the surface world.
We can't really make accurate assumptions as to if Sans is or isn't a darkner without fully understanding Ralsei's mystery first.
Asriel might actually be Ralsei. In chapter 2 dont you think its weird how Ralsei never turned into stone despite being away from the castle? This either means that Asriel is Ralsei, or Ralsei is a monster from the overworld because they can shift between kingdoms without turning to stone like Lancer or Rouxls.
@@exoticgreens9512 I think it's simple: he's from the fountain of pure darkness, which is compatible with every darkner, so he would be compatible with every dark world
@@exoticgreens9512 Ralsei is an anagram for Asriel
@@cursed_cats5710 Yeah I know
Fun Fact: Now that Deltarune Chapter 2 is out, there is actually a word puzzle that uses the exact same letters as the first row of the Ice-E Puzzle in 19:49
It's actually very slightly different.
You can also occasionally hear Sans when pushing buttons in that puzzle & the puzzle displays a picture of Ice-e when solved, which is the same picture on Sans' word search even though no other evidence of Ice-e's existence in Undertale is ever shown except for the wacky waving arm-flailing inflatable tube monster in the dogshrine but that room has multiple objects that reference Deltarune & Sans mans it.
Though I just realized the word puzzle in Deltarune may just be there because Sans was doing word searches on the computer in between research. Still, that would imply that he did the same word search in both worlds, considering they both have almost exactly the same typo/impossible "word".
@@D_YellowMadnessOH SHIT
Another thing for the “blood, magic and dodging” is that, instead of an hp bar, it shows a number. No matter how much damage you do to a darkner, they will always flee. Just like how even though you did 999999 damage, sans still flees.
@@Rodrigo-kq3js but they weren't killed. At least according to the game. The kill count doesn't go up after you defeat him
@@deaditalianguy7353 maybe it has to do with Deltarunes story not being effected by whether you kill or not.
Undertale gets effected cause you're killing monsters. Maybe since sans comes from the darkner world, where it doesn't matter whether you kill or not, then his death doesn't get added to the count.
You guys just have to accept that he dies, you can hear him turn to dust AND he bleeds, and your LOVE even increases to max, and if darkners bleed then that means hes most definitely dead, unlike deltarune darkners where they flee but dont bleed at all, the reason he doesnt count as a kill is either
He was the one counting the kill counts in the first place
Or, mostlikely, because chara landed the killing blow, and not you
But there are hp bars in deltarune, just in a different location.
But he does die...not really flee...
"There are dogs inside?"
"I wouldn't rule it out."
*Enodgeny intensifies*
I had whiplash when I saw that cause I've only ever played undertale once and just left it on my desktop after a perfect pacifist with minimal resets and stuff... makes me sad I missed out on easter eggs but I felt too bad to even try to reset-
* It starts to generate a stage 1 happiness froth from its orifice
That's immediately what I thought. Kind of freaky.
Eloïse Calling papyrus in Alphys lab and he’ll tell you that the bag of dog food looks familiar and that he remembers seeing it in sans’ room. Talking to Alphys for the forth time after the Asriel battle will also get you some dialogue.
Undyne:We’re gonna be able to watch anime online?!
Alphys: Of course, Undyne! What do you thing we’ve been fighting for all along?
Sans: yeah, what do you... whoops.
Alphys: Jinx! I knew you were gonna make that joke!
Papyrus: WAIT, ALPHYS, I DIDN’T KNOW YOU KNEW SANS
Alphys (nervous):Well... I...
Sans (winking): doesn’t everybody?
Toriel: Who the hell is Sans? . . . Who the HECK is Sans?
Alphys: TORIEL!?!?!
@@Makitru Yep, I knew about that. Obviously Sans knows way much more than he let's on, and the fact that Alphys and Sans know each other well enough so that she knew that he was gonna make a joke is quite telling that they have worked together before.
More possibly useful info when it comes to this theory: If Noelle uses SnowGrave on a normal enemy (yes it's possible on an aborted Snowgrave playthrough), it shows the enemies being straight-up killed as opposed to retreating like they normally would. The enemy actually turns red just before fading away.
EDIT: This was patched out ever since the original posting of this message, so it's no longer possible to encounter any normal enemies once Snowgrave is accessible. Still though, it's interesting to note.
How do you do this? By the time you get the thorn ring to make using snowgrave possible, all of the enemies are already dead. Even not killing berdly wont let you do this due to the fact that noelle leaves the party afterwards when you meet up with Susie and ralsei.
@@potatoe972 I believe it was patched out already
"The conciquences are real" birdley siting dead rn.
literally
WHEN WILL YOU FRIKS REALIZE THAT YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES
REEEEEEEEEEEEE
One more evidence that Sans in UNDERTALE comes from deltarune (or vice versa):
The sprites files of characters in deltarune looks different from those in UNDERTALE. Even for those characters who looks similar in two games, the sprites are redrawn deliberately. For example, the sprite size of Toriel is edited slightly, so spr_toriel_school in UNDERTALE and spr_toriel_d in deltarune cannot fit at all. Sprites of Alphys are called spr_alphys_d/l/r/u in UNDERTALE while changing to spr_alphysd/l/r/u in deltarune, missing the "_" in filename.
The only two characters whose sprites remains the same in every way are Sans and, interestingly, Onionsan. Could that be related to the fact that they both talked about the nonexisting "tomorrow" with Kris?
That is incredibly interesting, and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else!
Thank you for that info! I was interested to see what Onionsan had to say in the hypothetical "tomorrow" that we'll see in full game, but I hadn't put tooo much weight in it. The unedited sprites, combined with the links of "tomorrow" has me all the more excited to see what is being built towards!!
@@2leftthumbs The copy+paste of those files might has some meta meaning. Not only the sprites of characters, the spirites of other objects are also changed. One of the few unchanged files is the spr_weirdlight, which is the light behind Sans' door and Dark World shortcuts (yes they are just called shortcuts in the code). By the way, I really love your video. Could I translate the subtitle to Chinese and share it on a Chinese website BILIBILI? I hope this video could be spread more widely.
@@user-if9ok6ik4z Like make an official Chinese caption to upload to this video? I'm not sure the exact process. Does youtube let you submit one, and I would simply have to approve it?
I could send you the full English captions to work off of if that helps!
@@2leftthumbs Thanks! I've downloaded the English caption and prepare to translate. But you know it's hard for Chinese to visit TH-cam, so beside upload the translation here I also wish to repost the video on a website within the GFW. I won't forget to add a link to this original video. Would you permit it?
@@2leftthumbs Hello, I've translated the captions to Chinese, but this video doesn't allow me to upload it. Should I send the srt file to you by Email or something else?
“Sans asriel and amalgamates are the only ones who can dodge”
Mad dummy: am I a joke to you?
he doesn't dodge, he gets hit but don't recieve damage
ya dummy
he can't dodge, we just do no damage as we can't use magic
He somewhat dodges the cotton balls/missiles
@@1971taks that's just poor/good aim
“Presumably, we’ll meet “Darkner” Papyrus in Deltarune Chapter 2”
;w;
I'm from the future... RIP.
Papyrus really does not want to greet us.
I'm pretty sure that Sans Deltarune never even said his brother's name is Papyrus. For what we know in this universe it could be Gaster or some rando
@@armintargaryen9216 Well Papyrus is in Deltarune, as you can try to name The vessel Papyrus and what happens is that it says that its an interesting coincidence.
@@armintargaryen9216 ngl I really think papyrus is going to have some big personality change or just not be the same papyrus we've seen before at all.
I could not imagine undertale papyrus being inside his house for so long..
Argument against the lack of a redesign being evidence: he wears “normal” clothes that fit in with his job kinda already. He doesn’t have a redesign because he doesn’t need one
Argument against the glowing eye thing: He’s not even the only one to have his eyes glow! Asgore’s eyes turn orange and cyan, Undyne and Mettaton’s eyes have those cool shining effects, etc.
To colors at least…
The orange/cyan are related to a type of magic attack I believe. These are used by lasers in the Core as well as by Asgore.
The shining effects for Undyne and Mettaton are separate from soul colors however, unlike the yellow that Sans shows in his left eye. He does use the cyan attack like Papyrus in one form of his attacks cycle, but that has far less generated bones in that particular portion of the sequence.
I do think Sans’ eye colors are quite important because of the yellow specifically.
@@junipereevee2153 yeah their eyes are amazing, skeletons specifically go into a kind of training to find their eye colors. Sometimes it's two of the same color such as justice yellow or sometimes two different colors appear like cyan patience and yellow justice. They also can learn techniques such as orange attacks and cyan because they are easy to learn compared to other attacks. An example being green eyes means healing...others would find it harder to heal unless they had green.
@@Kurotheskeleton_YT ...what
@@isthatbraised I think that's their headcanon
@@PhantomGato-v- ok?
I mean, his textbox face is _technically_ in full color, and he bleeds instead of turning to dust, so yeah sure i'd believe that.
Btw "sans is an anagram for sans" is the funniest thing i've heard all day and probably the funniest theory fuel i have ever heard in my life wow thanks
He bleeds but he does turn to dust if you listen when you kill him. OR MAYBE ITS A GAME THEORY
S - Sans
A - Ans
N -Ns
S - S
@@dennismahoney1115 yeah, i don't understand why super in depth theories like this don't notice that
@@Rodrigo-kq3js he's a prankster he can have a tape recorder
@@coltonking6257 Yes i am pulling a epic prank after i get A CUT THE SIZE OF MY CHEST for absolutely no reason
Just wanna add a couple of details from memory:
1. Asgore's eyes, if I recollect correctly, flash the colours, in order, for the attack where he swings his weapon at you. Blue and orange for freeze and move.
...so that's another character whose eyes flash.
2. Undyne and Papyrus are shrouded in darkness when they meet after Frisk leaves Snowdin.
They weren't just silhouettes like Sans or Lancer, though, but that is, indeed, another case of characters being shrouded in darkness.
Excellent examples!
about papy its should just snow and about fish it must be cause it armor can camoflage on in dark?
Papyrus have a Silhouette just like Sans !, During his Fight in Snondiw he becomes a Shadow
@@2leftthumbs Papyrus have a Silhouette just like Sans !, During his Fight in Snondiw he becomes a Shadow
@@2leftthumbs I FIGURED IT OUT!!
K=Kris
F=Frisk
C=Chara
OMGGGGGG
Just one more thing I'd like to add in favor if this theory:
If Sans is indeed a Darkner, and if he is indeed related to Lancer and King, then I am 100% certain he would be a Joker. He's a "comedian," Jokers are Spades, and Lancer and King both represent spades.
This might seem very obvious, but I just thought I'd point it out since it wasn't mentioned in the video ;)
but isn't jevil the joker?
Jevil is a joker card
Every standard 52 count poker deck includes two Joker cards. #1 Sans & #2 Jevil. In the art book it said Sans was going to run a poker casino in Undertale.
@@xstar9567 But aren't there two poker cards in a deck?
someone once pointed out that they hate getting beat up by the goofy, sliper-wearing, but very op character in these games so hey! there's one connection there
I know this video was a year ago but I haven't seen much mention of it
it's a small thing but yknow
in undertale, during the asriel battle when you reach out to sans and papyrus, sans says "just give up. I did. why even try? you'll never see 'em again."
I always wondered about that line but this video reminded me of the whole "don't forget" thing and the photo
not sure if it's proof of anything beyond what we already know from sans' monologue in the genocide run, with the whole "I can't go back and the surface isn't that appealing anymore either" thing, but it's still interesting to me :0
especially when I remember that regardless of the usage of the second person in those dialogues with the souls, they're a representation of what the characters are/were feeling
this is gonna be VERY interesting once we get more context lol
WAIT WAIT WAIT HOLD THE PHONE, when Papyrus asks if there are dogs inside and Sans says that he wouldn't rule it out. could that be a nod to the amalgams? (btw I wrote this as soon as I heard him say this so idk if this is brought up later)
It's certainly a possibility! That sort of tongue-in-cheek response does feel very in-character
@@2leftthumbs also, I think Papyrus does mention that he knows what a lab is when sans isn't in a phone call?
@@2leftthumbs i mean he DOES wink whilst saying "wouldnt rule it out" soooooo....
@@2leftthumbs i dont get it
@@STB4G This is a big brain sans. He wrote his timeline.
I WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS MUCH EVIDENCE SUPPORTING SANS AS A DARKNER. Well done and I'm on board.
the darkner himself
Yeah, exactly, I expected a lot of joke stuff or stuff that only becomes evidence when you already assume the theory is true but he actually came in with legitimate evidence
L. L@@shiwy5010
then deltarune chapter 2 came out and said
"no"
@Theodorus Benjamin Sasikarana darkners outsıde of theır fountaın are ɟust obɟects lıke cards and plushıes
25:24 yeah but in argument for Susie that she could in the case where she says "everyone bleeds" she could add an even more intimidating "except me." to the end.
sans being a spade is such a cool theory.
also 34:45 he had come up with susie as a character before he even had the idea for undertale. he wanted to make a rpg with playing card inspired characters first (deltarune) he then had the idea for undertale and was writing both deltarune and coding undertale at just about the same time.
also, I really like the graphics you used to represent the different parts of your argument, it was very helpful visually
Thanks spitfire!
It's a tough balance, because I don't want to just show 40 minutes of uninterrupted gameplay. But the extra things are definitely what make the editing process for these big theory videos so time consuming. Glad it didn't go unnoticed :)
@@2leftthumbs sans maybe died or fell into the mountain and learned the monsters and then he died then he was a monster and cus many many comics says sans is a experiment that gaster made so. Mabye he got resurrected and something
Also cus sans nose. Is a upside. Down heart and human heads is heart nose
HinKwong Chan, he has a normal shaped nose
@@mari-with-a-gun he dosent he has a heart nose
HinKwong Chan, what I meant by that was that an upside down heart is what a skeleton’s nose should look like
I first read the title as sans is darker and thought the thumbnail was showing him being darker and I actually thought this was a 40 minute video about how he changed to darker colors but I'm happy it wasnt what I originally thought lol
That'll be the follow up video. Estimated length of that one will be closer to 2 hours
the fact that you still decided to watch a 40 minute video you thought was all about sans having darker colors is hilarious to me
@@2leftthumbs Are you going to explain how much darker each pixel is than in Undertale?
@@2leftthumbs The only nitpick I have with your anagram idea at (14:35) is that SANS can be a anagram for NASS.(not ness)
emily ramirez I read it danker
Another thing that holds-up the Dark World being real and not a imaginative figment, is that, if you complete the Snowgrave route, Berdly returns to the light world, permanently asleep/dead. While one could argue he just passed out hard, if you take certain path of a normal run, where Berdly gets his arm/wing damaged trying to break free of Queen's control, he returns to the light world with a wounded arm/wing. Also, Berdly has a thing against Kris, so if it WAS make-believe, Berdly would have no part in doing so, due to how much he hates Kris. Therefore, with the evidence given, it's true the Dark World actually happened
No....that's just because Berdly is a lighter. I still it is still technically real, but its just like a simulation or powered by something far more powerful. Determination.
the theme of deltarune is that your choices dont matter
i think theres a chance berdly may wake up but have no recollection of what happened in the dark world, simply to give the player's attempts at changing things a middle finger, or the world's way of hard-resetting berdly after an unexpected thing happened
Hey, I watched this vid a while back and it was super insightful. One more thing I'd like to add that I don't remember seeing is that the first time you enter Sans' room in undertale, it's almost like when you enter the closet to the dark world in deltarune. You're surrounded by pitch black darkness, and a fell wind(black wind?) begins to pick up in the background. Shortly after papyrus turns on the light and sans leaves a note in the room saying he fooled you, so I originally played it off as just another Sans prank, but it's too eerily similar to how you enter a dark world in deltarune for me to ignore.
Just a little something:
Papyrus's Design in Undertale is actually new, in terms of time spent, was only made for a costume party (I believe it was a week before the game takes place). So Papyrus getting a redesign doesnt 100% signify The DR Papyrus being different from UT Papyrus.
I totally conceed that point! Yours is the best example I've seen, but I've ha this one contested a few times.
I think what would have been a better framing for that, is that if we met a *different* Papyrus in Deltarune. Not just a redesign, but some sort of major character or personality alteration that indicates that it's a different Papyrus, who has lived a different life
@@2leftthumbs Hello, My two left thumbs i lost.
It is I, Hatsune miku, Here to tell you that everything is great.
He technically is however an entirely different one, the whole place is in it's own universe and there are many.
I had the stupidest thought just now: what if the blueprints in Sans’ lab is a thrash machine........
It could be! Or at the very least, Lancer could be imitating Sans. Utilizing his blueprint paper without really knowing how any of it works
Sans’s blueprint: TimeMachine (aka the machine hiding behind the curtain)
Lancer’s blueprint: weird Editable Blueprint??
sans put the duck
Papyrus Lazybones I mean you do know sans better than us.
Honestly, a lot of blueprints looks the same in my opinion. And Toby probably like to reuse game files.
In Deltarune, you supposedly cannot "kill" Darkners in the traditional sense. They either run away, get tired, or are Frozen in the Weird Route.
If for some reason you abandon the Weird Route after getting the Ring of Thorns, there is an instance where you can use Snowgrave outside of the Berdly battle. When you use Snowgrave on a common enemy, they will dissolve into a puddle of red goo and die, and not freeze on the overworld.
When you kill Sans in Undertale, he oozes red.
That's probably the ketchup, he doesn't turn into red dust and vanishes
Fair
Well, chapter 2 of Deltarune kinda de-confirms this whole theory, what with Darkners taking on the form of their specific object in the light world, and being unable to persist for very long in a dark world that isn't the Castle Town or their own Fountain.
But it's still a fun video to think about with only the context of chapter 1!
I mean, we haven't seen Ralsei outside of a dark world, and he's fine in other dark worlds, so...
Ralsei is tied to Asriel not directly but still
@@user-ub7pr2yg6m Imagine is Ralsei *IS* Asriel and has access to magic or somehing, and maybe is using magic to hide his true identity. It's unlikely, I know, but it would be crazy
Ralsei is not from a fountain created by the Knight, and can persist in dark worlds that are not his own
Sans could have a similar origin to Ralsei
He could be one of those school skeletos, or other object resembling human anatomy. It's all conjecture unless sans goes to the dark world
How was this game released 5 years ago and it still surprises me? Honestly, Undertale is something different...
It has tons more surprises in it that other people have lightly touched on....I wish people would make more stories conveying and showing and explaining these interesting secrets and non-secrets alike...so much icing on the cake people don't even get to see and touch yet and maybe never will but would prefer they got to because it's very enriching and complex.
I always liked to think his winking with his "right" eye would be him "turning a blind eye" and being jovial or not really that serious, joking around, and when he winks his "left" he's no longer messing around or letting things slide, being serious and not joking around anymore OwO but that's just my theory :3
A gAmE tHeOrY!
OH NO YOU DIDN'T
Are we sure that "Darkner" is a whole new type of being rather than just a title used to refer to those who inhabit the Dark World, and that they may still just be monsters & humans? The reason all the Darkners that we encounter are monsters and no humans is just down to location; the connected town in the Light World (full of Lightners) is inhabited entirely by monsters minus Kris.
3:33 Personality of Sand
• Interested in Science, Space 🔭, Resets
7:50 Travel
• Jumping through shortcuts, teleporting
9:13 Shop Cat & Roulz Card
It’s like Another World
Alphys, Papyrus, River Person, Chara
Goner Kid
12:49 New World
Sans, Sans
Maybe a human
20:30 Design
Sans = Sans
23:40 Color Connection
24:13 Battle & Death 💀
Monsters don’t bleed
Darkners do bleed 🩸
monster food is made of magic
28:48 Having blood & Using Magic
Lightners - No blood, no magic
Darkners- blood and magic
Darkners dodge attacks
Sans dodges attacks
33:07 HP Bar vs Red Numbers
34:30 Suzy
3 Heroes, Don’t Forget
Shadow
Bathrooms
Food digestion
Lancer - Papyrus
Spade King - Gaster
Sans - Sans
Ace of Spades - Sans
ALSO!!! sans was originally going to run poker in UT - ace of spades is the highest card in poker!!! i think toby maybe thought that would be too obvious and instead threw lesser dog playing against himself in at grillbys (where sans. is playing)
Then the Xbox port showed up and now we have
Sans running a casino inside his sink... 🤔
@Alastair Valyocsik technically, the ace of spades is the highest even if not really that above the other ace cards
@@King_Luigi sorry he fuckin what
@@technicolorgodship2242 _"Yes. You read that correctly."_
Y'see, each of the console ports has some new content hidden in them.
It's mostly in a secret room hidden under the sink in Sans/Papyrus's house.
(Though there's a few smaller, random things in other places too.)
The latest port on the Xbox _literally bulldozes_ what was there from the
Switch version (the previous port) and replaces it with a Casino that Sans runs.
(It's kinda interesting how there seems to be 'continuity' between each version,
with how that room keeps changing what was there previously.)
I personally think he could very likely be a darkner, but I try to keep an open mind in all directions.
I hope there will at least be more and more hints to Gaster, Sans and maybe even Chara throughout the future content from Toby.
That's the thing. This seems to be where things are point for now. But that's based on 1 full game and a fraction of another. I'm fully open to being proven wrong! But damn it would be satisfying to really nail it ahead of time ;)
@@2leftthumbs helo did you forget about sans saying D I R T Y B R O T H E R K I L L E R
@꧁Foxbread꧂ Lazuli yeah, what is funi
The Snowgrave route proves the dark world is real with birdly still being dead when you get back to hometown.
Neutral route too. His arm became paralized
I used to think that when Sans “bled” in game was actually him leaking ketchup.
"sans is... sans?"
*hmm yes*
*the floor here is made of floor*
From another dimension
i was watchin the first half of this like "hmm yea this is all cool and all but im not really that convinced"
then the part where you explained how lancer thought they bled and it hit me like a train. i think i might have actually muttered "well shit" to myself
I imagine the theory isn't ironclad, but I'm glad to hear that it may have been somewhat persuasive!
IKR
This is amazing! I love theories, especially on very mysterious characters (which includes Sans) because they're so fun to theorize on, and I have to say with the examples, explanations, comparisons, and generally the entire thing, it's easy to believe it
Yo theorists, how is Sans able to play the trombone? You gotta have lips for that.
he just rattles his teeth and it vibrates in the same way
Magic. I mean he can blink too without pupil.
@@dartog4967 so can Papyrus, actually. And sweat, cry, manipulate skeletal structure to show expression... 🤔 Are they really skeletons with all that, or instead a soft cartilage? Maybe just a solid form of magic? I'm just fascinated with them because they're so different and their appearance in the village so abrupt.
@@lostmypocket1333 yeah they are definitely weird. I have no idea how though.
its a well known fact that skeletons are excellent ant playing the tromBONE 😉
Also, a song that might play when you fight sans is the only place in undertale where we hear the Gaster's theme leit motif, while it can be found all over the place in Deltarune's soundtrack.
actually the snowdin theme has gasters theme as well
@@flowerFL and the papyrus dating theme
Gaster's theme is all over the place in Undertale, but that could just be because its literally just a 4 note progression.
@@kaydenhubert4085 a four note progression that appears everywhere. It's gotta be intentional.
Two times is a coincidence, three times is a pattern, most of the sountrack is a motif
Iu forget about da Sound Place with a song called Gasters Theme
22:11
"We also have no example of how a Darkner would be represented in the overworld"
Yes, We do. They revert to their original items (cards, chips, balls of junk, etc) Darkners can only live near Dark Fountains, once Kris got rid of Fountains in Chapter 1&2 we see the leftovers, some cards, plushies, lockers, game pieces, a whole computer lab, they simply cannot exist without a Dark Fountain, and even if they are near a dark fountain if it's not their original or made out of pure darkness, they'll petrify or simply turned into another simple overworld item
that's actually funny because while the video was made before chapter 2, there were already example of darkners being objetcs in the overworld, like seam being an exact copy of the plush in that classroom
*spoiler*!
in chapter 2 end kris created a dark fountain in the overworld i think that is what happend maybe we will see darkners in the overworld
I like how you clearly outlined your points in a structure, that way I can understand everything better
The poorly drawn picture is of Kris, Susie, and Ralsei. In Deltarune’s game files, there are unused sprites that are from the manual Ralsei made that contains a poorly drawn picture of him, Kris, and Susie.
Edit: However, it could be a poorly drawn picture of Lancer, Sans, and Spade King...
Here's the unused manual assets for anyone who is curious. These were likely placeholders, and would have been redone - even if it maintained a relatively rough, sketch-book like style.
imgur.com/gallery/WTE0KDV
@@2leftthumbs A very, very interesting aspect to note is that Sans is not the only monster who can dodge. While we see it in the Overworld, Susie dodges Lancer's attack when Lancer attempts to shoot spades at her.
They skipped page 5 though, I don't know if that was a purposely done mistake or if that page is actually missing. Maybe there were some poorly drawings on that page.
@@lennonsliger3632 However, it seems the monsters of Deltarune are not exactly the same as Undertale's, as the video says, they are Lightners, as shown with Toriel not using her magic to cook.
@@2leftthumbs in the manual there's exactly one spot where the aster font is used, and it's when talking about the dog absorbing the commands. might have some relation between gaster and the dog?
“Monsters don’t know what actual blood looks like”
Six humans who fell down: am I a joke to you?
I don't know for sure, but it seems like Asgore disposed of them quietly, hiding that from other monsters. If anyone were to know, it'd be him - but very few others. Certainly not your average underground citizen!
That's my take on it at least.
Two Left Thumbs I don’t know. I feel like some of the bosses (what I call the main nine) had a bit of a hand in killing the kids. Undyne straight away tries to murder Frisk and take out his/her soul to transport to Asgore, instead of bringing them there to be killed by Asgore himself, and Sans may have had a hand in the deaths of someone before promising Toriel to leave them alone. But they never bring Frisk to the castle for execution, they do a kill on sight thing, which may have been there before Frisk fell. So I am pretty positive that most of the monsters know what a human looks like, not just because they have seen the kids, but because they may have books on what humans actually look like (seeing as their obsessed with humans and the war, even going as far as to have some of the puzzles mimic the sight of a human’s soul breaking), and would probably even figure out that humans *bleed* and knows what human blood looks like. Even the tiniest Froggit is likely to know what a human looks like. Plus, one thing I like to add is Papyrus probably doesn’t bleed in front of you because you knocked off his head instead of slashing a blow right along his ribs like you did with Sans. Bit of food for thought on that one.
@@pineforest1442 "his/her" you can just say their... like both games do for Frisk, Chara, and Kris. They all use they/them.
@@pineforest1442 i personally think most monsters you meet in the game where either very young or wherent even born when the sixth human fell down. During Undynes fight, Undyne tells you what she knows about humans, and everything she says, is stuff Alphys told her. To me, it seems like this is the first time she interacts with one. And Alphys knows a lot about humans, but she has done experiments on already captured human souls, and she has a lot of books and stuff. And Papyrus is shocked to realise that you are a human.
@@pineforest1442 Well, but Asgore killed them. First of all, the last human before Frisk fell centuries ago, and as far as we know, the only monster that can age infinitely unless they have descendance, are the Boss Monsters, being those, only Toriel and Asgore. Second, going by the things said previously, most monsters woudn't know about blood, since the 6 pasts were all kill by Asgore, and monsters like Undyne never fought one(it's said by her that she never met one before, she though of Frisk as some anime human).
Added extra detail to help prove this theory
One of the words on the word search that sans gives you is giasfclfebrehber, which seems to be pretty insignificant and just a funny joke
In chapter 2 of Deltarune, there is a puzzle where you have to type out this word on a keyboard. When stepping on the A key, it has a chance of playing the sound effect for sans talking.
It's just a small weird detail that adds some sort of connection to this.
Or maybe, hear me out, it’s done for a joke as a reference to the word search
i’ve seen in some videos that it plays the sans sound when you spell out G-A which i think is interesting! many people interpret this to be evidence of sans’s connection to gaster
For those coming here directly after the release of CH.2. I make the distinction of those specifically from the release of CH.2 because CH.3-7 have yet to come out and no knowledge of them is known yet.
Lightners *can* learn/use magic as seen by Susie learning/using healing magic in the *DARK WORLD* but *NOT* in the Light World. Otherwise Noelle, who *CAN* use healing magic(a fairly strong one) in the *Dark World,* wouldn't say "I wish I could use healing magic in the real world" she means Light World, of course, because she thinks the *Dark World* events were a Dream.
If the items of the dark world become a ball of junk, and Sans room is messy and has some junk in it… Could his junk be items from the dark world? idk just a thought
okay this comment just got me thinking, what if sans cant go back to his darkner world, because it isnt there. what if the junk he has is the remnants of his people who are now stuck in their object form (like the game pieces and junk in Deltarune). what if papyrus was the only other one to escape with him (maybe, due to him more likely being a simple moster).
Maybe sans' room is a dark world, we don't enter it and we just see a lot of random objects on the floor
@@pagecruz2576 What do you mean by simple monster? we know they are in fact brothers so they would always be together in the first place.
I thought that the socks we see could be the portal doors that makes him travel faster
@@soyalguienqueestamuyaburri8396 if darkners get transformed into junk once they leave the dark world, shouldnt sans be junk too? how can he move and stuff
did he do what even spamton couldnt?
The connection between Sans and the Ace of Spades is really interesting. Considering that Toby Fox was inspired to make a game by the Kanotynes card designs, *before* he made Undertale, and that there are early designs of several Deltarune characters that were made before Undertale.
And reading too much into the meaning of playing cards is nothing new, it's the entire basis of Tarot.
I mean Toby was clearly working on Deltarune while working on Undertale so it would make sense that there's connections
@@kinokiita he's even said he was working on it and was going to release it before undertale, but for some reason he decided to finish and release undertale first
18:25 maybe sans winks and we can choose "great to see you again" because he recognises the soul? It's the same colour as frisks and same shape, and we have the option "great to see you again" because the player (the soul) remembers sans from another world (Undertale)
Also, if you cheat in chapter two and use snowgrave on regular enemies, they become some blood colored dust, so that would say why sans bleed.
Holy shit, so I was rewatching this theory, and I had a sudden realization. Sans doesn't show any skeletal features outside of his face. Everything about him is covered. He wears mittens, lengthy socks, and a sweater. Not only does Sans' physical appearance look similar to Lancer's and Chaos King's, but their faces are almost identical. The realization I had was that when Lancer joined your team in deltarune, he physically altered his face. I never gave that much thought as I always just laughed because it was hilarious, but think about it. Sans could look more like Lancer than we realize, just covering himself completely and altering his face to appear skeletal. He wouldn't even have to alter it too much because of how similar it already is. Another point that Sans isn't a skeleton, is because when he's hit and bleeds, the wound isn't something a skeleton would have. The blood would be coming from individual ribs and bones, but instead it's one long wound, like you would see on a Darkner or Human. When Papyrus is struck, he doesn't bleed at all. Look back to Papyrus, he's visibly a skeleton, even with his "battle body." his limbs are bone-thin and his spine can be seen visibly attached to his head. Take this point with a grain of salt, but Sans' appearance in Smash is an interesting one. Look at his feet and legs. They do not look skeletal like Papyrus' at all. They look like Lancer's, human's, or anyone not a skeleton. Sans does use skeleton attacks, but they are slightly different from Papyrus'. We also know that Papyrus' attacks can be taken and stored (think the sink, box, and Undyne's drawer). So what if those attacks aren't even being summoned by Sans? What if he just took them from Papyrus? They both have Gaster Blasters (Papyrus implies), but these seem more like technological weapons than magical. Really, their only true similar power is gravity manipulation. But that, too, could be more scientific than magical. If this theory is true, it just changes how we've viewed everything before, and I love it. It's made me rethink everything I thought I knew about these characters. I'm completely convinced, but I'm keeping an open mind.
TL;DR: Lancer can physically alter his face, and that's the only thing visibly skeleton about Sans. He could actually look more like Lancer than we think, and he's just altering his appearance to be skeleton.
Sans' bone attacks have different sprites than Papyrus's
Mm well, Sans' sprite with his back turned shows his spine-
@@vinetail5735 you can also see human spines
@@grimlock5832 you don't see individual vertebrae
Long e
Your mention of Sans and the "little brother" comment got me thinking, is Lancer's connection to Papyrus stronger than Sans's? Lancer's role in this game is extremely similar to Papyrus's role in Undertale. To make a few bullet points:
- Both are initially presented as antagonists, but are too soft to actually cause serious harm to the player.
- Both are working for someone who actually wants to cause harm to the player. Papyrus has Undyne and Lancer has the Spade King.
- Both really want to make friends. Papyrus was quick to make friends of everyone around him even if they were supposed to be an enemy. Lancer initially warms up to Susie while eventually warming up to the rest of the cast. While many enemies end up making friends for the player, Papyrus and Lancer are particularly proactive in making friends, more than any other non-playable character.
There are probably more examples, but their roles in the games were both very similar. If Lancer is some form of Papyrus in this game, it wouldn't be surprizing if San's little brother comment was actually referring to Lancer.
It was very weird that Papyrus is one of, if not, the only major character to not make an appearance in this game in some form, unless that form was Lancer.
Even if Papyrus and Lancer aren't physically connected, I do like the analysis of them filling similar roles within the games. I think that's really neat, and you thought up some great examples!
It does make sense, but I'd be pissed if this was the truth.
I don't think it really is Lancer. When you knock the door it says *No response... but the distant trousle of bones. This is a direct reference to Papyrus' theme Bonetrousle, so I wouldn't think Lancer is in there. But good job making the connection between their roles.
maybe sans attached onto papy as a lil brother bc his REAL little brother is in the other world
Dude! Does that mean Lancer is the darkner version of Papyrus???🤯
Or am I just reading to much into this?????🤔
19:46 I think it's also very interesting that the gibberish word "giasfclfebrehber" reappears in one of the puzzles in Deltarune Chapter 2 in Cyberfield (with a small change though, now being written GIASFELFEBREHBER with an e instead of the orignal c in "fcl".) That doesn't contribute anything to the "Sans is a Darkner"-theory, but it provides further evidence that Sans connects the different worlds (the underground in Undertale where the puzzle is presented, the Light world where the ICE-E restaurant is located and finally, the Dark World, where the GIASFELFEBREHBER puzzle takes place),
23:30
Asgore's eyes glow blue and orange in his fight too.
But the difference may be that for Asgore it's directly part of the attack (so you can dodge), and for Sans it's just an indicator that he is...Using his magic ? At full intensity ? Or something like that.
I don't know if that's clear enough haha.
Hey sorry i'm late but
I have a theory about something in Undertale that only comes up once. When you go to Sans & Papyrus's house, there is a sock on the floor that has note from Sans and Papyrus. You probably know what I'm talking about. The reason Sans never picks the sock up is the same reason going to the surface doesent apeal anymore. His knowledge of Save files and Resets tells him that it's all going to end up where it was. Sans doesn't really apeal to going to the surface because he knows everyone is going to end back up trapped underground. The same with the sock. If he picks up his sock and brings it back to his room, It'll just end up back down on the living room floor. So, in short, the sock on the floor represents Sans himself. This might be a stretch but thanks for reading!
It's a fun theory! I like the idea of something so insignificant subtly communicating this more complicated topic, and where Sans' state of mind has ended up
and even at the end of the game sans comes back to the underground. wow i think maybe this isnt coincidence
Sans is Sock
@@piccolofan24 y e s
New theory
Sans is a sock
26:48 If we're to believe that Sans is a darkner though, wouldn't the food not converting into energy support the ketchup theory? Sure, a human eating monster food would also convert it into energy, but at least we know that monsters and humans both have souls that are even compatible with one another.
DAMN!!
Really though, that is a good point. Although it does support the theory either way.
Either he's a monster, and it wasn't ketchup. Or it is ketchup, and only persists because he's a Darkner.
SWISH! Top shelf! Stuck the landing!
@@2leftthumbs The bit about Sans first presenting himself in Undertale while being covered in darkness until he reveals himself was interesting as well. Then I remembered the monsters you fight in the core also do the same thing. This could be entirely coincidental or it could string back into the Sans/Gaster/Core theories. Just something to look out for.
Don’t forget that there is a bathroom in Card Castle that was in use. Perhaps Darkeners are more like a combination of humans and monsters, having appearances and powers of monsters, yet the physicality of humans, therefore their food, which heals you like monster food, may be 50% magic and 50% physical matter?
@@2leftthumbs And another thing, watching a clip of the core gameplay, I noticed wherever an enemy approaches you from off-screen it makes the same sound as muffet's laugh, just showed down a bit. We know now how that sound ties back to gaster, so it's just another thing to look out for.
@@2leftthumbs One more thing, (I promise) if the gaster E.G.G is supposed to represent the knight (chess piece) in deltarune, then the fact that it clones itself in the fridge could signify that there's more than one knight. Or rather two versions of the same knight.
Ok u really got me with the speech about the Ace of spades, totally convinced me man
I watched this a weeks ago during a car ride, realized something, and only now remembered to comment it
In Undertale, you can read up about what happens when monsters die: they turn to dust and their remains are sprinkled over the thing they liked in order to 'live on' through it, right?
However! In Deltarune there's a cemetery for the monsters! It specifically has those who had 'fallen down' in Undertale, but also Gerson - who probably died of old age? Anyways, this tells us that monsters in Deltarune aren't like the ones in Undertale: they don't use magic (Toriel's stove, for example) and they most likely don't dust, either, since they have buried the monsters who died.
(This would also make Susie's remark in Chapter 1 of how "everyone bleeds, right?" more sense)
Sorry if this has been commented before, just thought I'd share :D
We simply don't have enough information. It could be that the funeral-ceremony is the same, but then the item gets buried. The monsters seem a lot more aware of human culture than in the undertale-universe and they possibly just adapted that aspect into their own.
i like how Game Theory with Undertale is often more speculative, but still with evidence, and you're going off of cold hard facts with some speculation, which is what's likely to be true. (i mean, nobody REALLY believes that Ness is Sans.)
They are two very different approaches!
I like that MatPat and the GT team are just having fun with it, and it ensures that they can more easily make weekly content. Hopefully I can make more stuff like this in the future, and act as a fun companion piece to the sort of stuff GT does
Sans is ness? No.
Sans is sans? Yes.
Snes Is Sans+ Ness
Sans - Sens - Ness
It's not that big of a leap
wait so does this whole thing about goners mean that Sans's strategy in his fight is to stall until Frisk becomes a goner?
maybe, or to make them rage quit.
oh Oh OH MY GOD THAT SO TRUE
o
Yeah I thought he was gonna bring that up
Don't you mean.. A Bone- r?
EHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH
I came in thinking this was a joke, and left thinking you have very important points. Great work!
I think a big thing against this theory is that in Chapter 2, Lancer and Rouxls appear as cards in your pocket once you leave the Closet Dark World, instead of being themselves and real. This would imply that characters native to the Dark World can’t exist outside it, so Sans wouldn’t be able to be a Darkner. (I know this came out well before Chapter 2 but figured I’d put it here in case anyone has counter evidence)
what about Ralsei then?
@@tripdrakony869 ralsei doesn’t go into the lightner world does he?
@@KikiCatMeow yeah but he's a darkner too, so he should technicly turn to stone like Lancer and Rouxls. Also let's not forget how the hell did he even came to the cyber world?
@@tripdrakony869 How he came: a theory that Ralsei's light world form is Kris' pink horn headband that he kept hidden from us(the player). The headband is mentioned by Toriel reminiscing about Kris' childhood of wanting to have horns like Asriel and Toriel. This is backed up by Ralsei having pink horns.
Why he doesn't turn to stone: There's a theory that Ralsei is a true and true "Prince of Dark World", as he introduced himself in the first chapter, that can sustain his form with any fountain of darkness, unlike Lancer and Rouxls needing their original fountain of darkness or the pure darkness fountain to keep their form.
Ralsei is Kris' headband proof: th-cam.com/video/Tljz6K9nAT4/w-d-xo.html
"sans is selling tickets in form of Toilet Paper" Toilet paper...
TP?
🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿
@@electrical-420 The truth: TP = Tension Points
@@momothemagecat it was a joke but ok
@@DianaMirelly I know
Sans: will you please listen I’m not the messiah
The entire undertale community: HE IS THE MESSIAH
Toby laughing from the background as he watches everyone creating lore and origins for his characters from small details which are only red herrings
This is exactly what I'm saying, all those theories from like 3 years ago look kinda silly after Chapter 2 dropped.
11:54
Asriel's line could also be interpreted like Dark Souls's Hollowing, everytime you die you lose your humanity just slightly more (you get frustrated) and if you die enough times you may get hollow (you rage quit and leave your character behind)
A bit of a theory here. I always thought it was possible that Sans faked his death (or at least faked a monster death). When he limps offscreen, the'monster dying' sound effect is still played.I thought he may have had a gravely injured or fallen down monster that made the sound in his place. Which monster?
Shyren's manager (lower half). It doesn't vanish when the battle ends. Sans watches that fight specifically, whether to sell tickets or keep his distance with his hood up. This is the only time this happens as far as I remember. He even mentions shyen's body on the official tumblr blog under 'important info'.
The monster death sounds is something I unfortunately do not have a good answer for. I've heard the theory of him faking his death there, and I do like that a lot!
@@2leftthumbs Maybe we'll get more substantial evidence one day. : )
@Guest User Again, the monster kills still doesn't go up after his fight, it's reaally weird.
@@2leftthumbs a bit to late to this but i'd like to add anyway ; the "monster death" sound-effect plays when a fight ends regardless - which means even if you don't kill them (i.e. fleeing or sparing) the sound-byte still plays. so the sound doesn't actually have any connections to monsters dusting/dying, rather just the end of an encounter.
Guest User I wonder how we gain extra EXP if we pick on loox ( +5 each time you do so, max of 3 times) before killing him
When Sans gives you the key to his room, he also says that it's time that you know the truth. Because of the joke with the treadmill in his room, that sentence can be seen as a contrastive joke, but it can also hint to Deltarune when thinking about those teleportation doors.
In the new Deltarune Chapter 2, there are unused files of Susie bleeding
yeah, but that's more of a mistake than anything, because there's a monster in hometown that asks Kris how it's like being made of blood
Pretty sure that humans in undertale can use magic, possibly even in the underground it's just that frisk is a little baby child and not a wizard.
It does talk about the barrier being made by mages or something
A book in Snowdin says that humans 'will never know the joy of expressing themselves through magic', so it seems at least that monsters believe they can't
It could be that the book/monsters are wrong, or it could be that humans could at one point but lost the ability, or that only certain particular special humans could. If not, its possible that the story we the player are told about The Barrier is inaccurate
To those who are saying that the blood is actually ketchup: even if it were ketchup, it would still mean that Sans is neither human nor monster. Monster food immediately converts to energy when ingested. It seems very unlikely that Sans somehow got ketchup from the surface.
It is also very unlikely that he had ketchup in his jacket. Why would it just randomly start leaking from his mouth? It seems more like blood haemorrhage to me.
Another thing: it takes a few seconds for the blood to appear after Sans is struck. If it were ketchup, don’t you think it would have immediately splattered everywhere?
(This video is amazing btw!)
Another thing to add: every other monster stays upright when they are struck, but Sans falls backwards. This gives the impression that his body is more solid somehow.
If it was ketchup and he somehow didn’t convert it into energy, why would it come out of his mouth? A ketchup packet located in the chest region wouldn’t be able to shoot ketchup out like that, but a lung that’s been cut into would!
@Pixelated Gamer#2 Good observation! That could also tie in with the Darkners’ tendency to flee from a battle once their HP reaches zero instead of turning to dust like monsters. It’s also notable that Sans’s HP bar isn’t visible above his head when he is struck, just like Darkners.
Well grillby never gives sans the ketchup and i dont think the ketchup would have splattered because with a ketchup bottle the ketchup takes awhile to hit the top/bottom of the bottle. So im saying maybe
Love the theory's though
also when a darkeners health reaches 0 they leave nothing but clothes behind we see this with ralsei so why didn't sans? The reason the darkners flee is because of fright not complete loss of hp
@@paintedskies9089 You still can see the monster HP when you click fight or react in deltarune, there's a health bar indicate that after their names, just saying
i didnt realize this video was 44 minutes long until i got to the end
9:15 in Chapter 2, after defeating Spamton NEO in the normal route, Ralsei walks out of the path and into the darkness when Susie tries to comfort Kris
Bro Toby Fox has to be one of the best game creators, he manages to fit a TON (and I mean a TON) of lore in games and can relate them to games the dude hasn’t even made, manages to make the best type of music with or without other songs merged in the middle, and manages to make a lot of things reference off many many things in just the smallest of things.
The dude is a God, I got ALOT of respect for the man. If anything I look up to Toby
Gotta say this video was absolutely mind blowing but there is one thing I wish you had talked about. The parallels between Sans and Jevil.
Both are viewed as the hardest boss fights of their respective games
A major part of both characters is their relation to comedy
they both have some level of coterminacy (noicy? idk how you spell it)
and they have direct opposite ways of dealing with the same problem: life is meaning so do you do nothing or do anything?
there's other stuff too but you get the picture, just something cool I noticed
Glad you enjoyed it! Jevil seems to be very much their own thing, although some of the similarities with Sans are hard to ignore. I think I felt that if I were to fold that in as well, things would already be less focused than they already felt at times. You know? We just know so little about Jevil, that the speculation would be RAMPANT! Perhaps that's a subject for another video? It certainly makes for a good discussion though!
Coterminosity, perhaps? "means that two things have the same boundaries"
Not a term I was familiar with! Hopefully that's what you were getting at?
jevil's chaos
sans in the fight says "i gave up trying to go back long ago" and we assume he means to the surface. but then, his next line is "and getting to the surface doesn't really appeal anymore, either" implying that going back and getting to the surface are different things
the "either" in his second statement is really the part that makes it stand out; if he had given up trying to go "back" then him stating that getting to the surface doesn't appeal either is redundant. essentially, the and and either statements imply these are two separate topics, and that he gave up on returning into the deltarune universe.
which leads into a somewhat different theory, that deltarune is in the past. we already know that the games both have connections to time and space; focusing on the time part, maybe deltarune takes place in the past of undertale? In deltarune toriel acts exactly the same, mothering kris heavily. in undertale, she finds frisk and "adopts" them, teaching them about the game. asgore in deltarune looks possibly like a pre-king version of his undertale self. the gaster doors below the church area in deltarune may imply that gaster used to be a darkner/deltarune character as well, before moving his operations into the underground. alphys is a teacher, maybe deciding to move into the field of science sometime between the games. undyne has both eyes, implying that maybe she hasn't lost hers yet. if sans is truly saying that he gave up trying to go back to the deltarune universe, it definitely means that undertale takes place after deltarune.
side note: the relation between sans and toriel (as you mentioned) and them recognizing each other could be a reference/callback to "i already 'befriended' your mom last night." It would make sense, as they both feel they recognize each other but so much time has passed that they don't remember.
ALSO ALSO ALSO (really sorry about the continuation) but if the monsters all got thrown into the underground in undertale but not in deltarune, deltarune could be before the war.
I like where you're heads at!
I think "back" could mean either spatially or temporally. It doesn't necessarily mean back in time. Although it does open up some interesting possibilities! The character examples you gave are strong, they were some of the same that came to mind for myself. Tying in Gaster would be pretty interesting. That door obviously has some major significance. Could be that he's got some work going on down there!
The connection with Sans and Toriel is really fun. I think that's a good catch!
Here's an interesting thought. The sound we hear near Deltarune's red door needs it's tempo changed by 666% to sound right. What if time in these different worlds moves differently? ie. Deltarune and Undertale had similar starting points, but once is simply moving 6x faster? I don't think there's a lot of evidence to support it, but I thought I would still share :)
@@2leftthumbs hmm... nice catch! not sure how that means the two worlds would be connected but that does sound interesting!! can't wait for your next video :D
And just one last thought with my theory... the first fallen human/Chara wears the same colors as Kris. They also have similar hair. Both characters have some connection to knives, as we see Kris pull out one at the end of Deltarune and Chara is linked with knives. Plus, (and this seems the most factually linking between the two) Kris is Asriel's adoptive sibling, and so. is. Chara. They not only wear the same clothing and look the same, but they are both associated with knives, and they are both adoptive children of the Royal Family.
Point of note: We never see Chara's face (she obscures it) during the into to Undertale. We never see Kris's face during the "intro" (Chapter 1) to Deltarune.
* You feel your fan theories crawling on your back...
@@lybon6972 Chara isn't a "she" just like Frisk and Kris aren't. They all go by they/them pronouns.
not that this was the important thing to take from this comment. but when undyne walks away in hot land after you give her water she's facing the left side of the screen you can clearly see her eye. her left eye. in waterfall there's not much light and undyne's left side is in the shadows, her eye, as long it farther back then her (nose?) and in perfect left light would be dark. it doesn't have any light to reflect. so I don't really think she ever lost her eye. unless of course there's dialog that say's she did, it's been awhile so i don't remember.
I admit most of this stuff went over my head ‘cause I’ve only played Deltarune, not Undertale, but that bit about Sans being the Ace of Spades caught my attention, that’s honestly as solid of a guess as you can make
Sans having the same visual design and seemingly being aware of the player + them knowing who he is was all the convincing I needed that Sans is the same Sans from Undertale. Whether or not he is a Darkner is something that I feel has less concrete evidence despite very good leads such as the bleeding. The teleported Grillby's is a dead ringer that Sans is not playing by the same rules as everyone else.
that thumbnail is just.... im so awestruck i never would have known SANS IS SANS!
😳😳😳
Hear me out, but Sans is Sans, I bet Papyrus is... Papyrus.
Actually, the designs for Toriel & Asgore were already seen in the pacifist run credits so Sans isn't the only one that has outfits shared with his Undertale.
Plus, Sans would probably be too lazy to get a redesign. If anything, he would purposely take a very slight change like maybe his jacket would be a single digit up in hexidecimal colour or maybe he happens to be missing a single pixel.
I had to dig that up and give it another look. That is pretty interesting that Torial and Asgore are seen with their Deltarune designs!! Hmmm. I think I had seen it brought up before, but I went looking in the wrong place. I wonder what it could mean??!
I had a thought like this years ago but shrugged it off, good to see someone else thought about it
for the layout and colors of options:
Toby said in this year's live stream that this was done to keep people guessing as to how similar Deltarune would be to undertale. he really wanted people guessing as to what kind of game it would be so he threw that in to throw people's guesses off