It's hard to believe a lot of stories written about the private lives of these emperors. Domitian is depicted as a tyrant by historians of the time, and later by Gibbon, but now there is a lot of modern day historians who say that he was a conscientious leader unfairly maligned by his detractors in the Senate. Too bad that many sources of information that might have offered alternative viewpoints and more insight into these leaders have been lost to history.
This is one of the reasons why I enjoy Mr Goldsworthy's work so much, because he puts primary sources first and doesn't get carried away with his interpretations. Many times while reading his work he will simply admit we don't know about a certain matter - and simply never will. It's history done properly
He wasn't a bad emperor; he got rid of a few (conspirating ?) senators like most emperors did. He left an intact empire with no major crisis going on. Unfortunate for him, he didn't have his own historian to correct his image. I'm pretty sure Titus or old Vespasian weren't all sunshine either.
@@ottovonbismarck2443 Tiberius gets a good write up from the early Christians and a couple of Byzantine emperors were named after him (not to mention Captain Kirk). So his memory wasn't universally damned.
Domitian was the first Emperor that was able to rule the Empire outside of Rome. "Rome is wherever the Emperor is" started with him. He took power and influence away from the Senate, so they were bound to dislike him. He was quite authoritarian, people had their reasons to assassinate him.
I found Prof. Goldsworthy's biography of Augustus quite eye-opening in that respect. As someone who was heavily influenced by "I, Claudius" it's useful to look at the subject in a more scholarly way and engage with why some of the sources said what they said, as well as what they said.
He always seemed to me like someone who was very intelligent and capable but simply did not have the personality needed to charm and work well with people especially arrogant aristocratics, something Augustus excelled in
If Tiberius had died in 23 A.D. what you say would be true. But the sad reality is that after the death of his son Drusus the Younger halfway through his long reign, whatever feeble spark of light that had existed in Tiberius's heart went out forever, and he had no further real interest in being an active head of state. Through either paranoia, heartbreak, innate introversion, we do not know, Tiberius thereafter withdrew into his own private world- eventually on Capri, and managed, in the final decade of his reign, to become one of the most loathed and feared emperors Rome ever knew in her long history. If it weren't for the fact that he happened to be succeeded by the first truly terrible emperor in Roman history (Little Boots), he would rank probably even lower in historians estimations, I would be willing to bet.
Tiberius is an interesting one: I always see people praising Germanicus and saying 'if only he'd been allowed to conquer Germania' and that Tiberius was jealous but it looks to me as if he was just far more pragmatic and, well, 'boring' I suppose.
Have you seen British tv show The Caesars from the late 1960s? It's a superb series that is fundamentally pretty sympathetic to Tiberius (though definitely not unreservedly so!!!) for kinda these reasons: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Caesars_(TV_series)
I'd say Tiberius through his own extensive campaigning in Germania knew the costs (vs) returns...ie; Germanicus was successful to some extent but it didn't come easy or at low cost in time, men and materials.
George Baker (not the actor who played Tiberius in I Claudius) wrote a great bio around 1930 called Tiberius Caesar. Its pretty fair, and portrays him reasonably well
Caught you on Times Radio. Dang, you're a busy guy. As a novice, I agree that Tiberius was likely not a sicko. If you're a sicko you tend to go all in. Hiding on an island it no "all in" like Caligula or Nero.
If we should learn anything from Epstein and P Diddy the Diddler it's that the rich and powerful easily become sexually degenerate and perverted. I wouldn't put it past Tiberius being an animal by the time he left for Capri. It might be the mold for Epstein Island.
Well Tiberius' age affecting his reign is something I always wonder about, as well as Caligula's subsequent youth. Tiberius was already in his late 60s when he went to Capri, and that was after having the bureaucracy and the senate and Praetorians etc all sort of age along with Augustus. I've always suspected his simply being a tired old man had much to do with everything in his reign.
I would love to listen to your thoughts on the emperor Gallienus. Please! Do you view him as weak and effeminate as Gibbon put it, or do you see him as holding the pieces together as best as he could during the worst of the crisis years?
A good television series that shows augustus’ strained relationship with Tiberius is “domina” which follows Livia, Augustus’ wife, from her childhood to her marriage to Nero, Tiberius’ father, and then later through her marriage to Augustus while he was emperor
I could do without the constant "fuсks," though, which I half-assume are mere space-fillers to add dialog to a very thin script for a very thin plotline.
Based and Tiberius pilled. Great general, great administrator, his entire life given to state service. His main failing being him putting ever more levels of trust and power into Sejanus subsequently likely due to the probable chronic depression Tiberius sunk to after the death of his son. The tales of Capri are utterly ridiculous and are incomprehensible when compared to his actual known life. 'I Claudius' is utter horseshit, I've watched it twice now with decades apart and still hold to this. It baffles me as to why its held in high regard. ITV's ''The Caesars'' offers a much more authentic attempt at Tiberius and his contemporaries.
Tiberius was the stepson of Augustus and not his first choice as successor but since both of Augustus grandkids died Tiberius was the only one left to become emperor after Augustus died. True Tiberius never wanted to be emperor
The relationship between Tiberius and Augustus was complex and fraught with tension. While they were technically father and son, their bond was strained by a number of factors. Tiberius was Augustus's stepson, and he married Augustus's daughter, Julia. This marriage was unhappy, and Julia was eventually exiled by her father. Tiberius also had a strained relationship with Augustus's grandson, Gaius, who was initially designated as Augustus's heir. Despite these tensions, Augustus ultimately chose Tiberius as his successor. This decision was likely motivated by a number of factors, including Tiberius's experience as a military commander and his loyalty to Augustus. The rumors about Tiberius being a sick deviant are largely unfounded. There is some evidence that Tiberius was a reclusive and suspicious character in his later years, but there is no concrete evidence to support the claims that he was sexually deviant or mentally ill.
Tiberius was Livia Drusilla’s elder son. Livia was Augustus’ wife. Augustus had no children, his two adopted nephews (Giuila’s sons, Giulia was Augustus’ daughter who was forced to marry Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa) died before him. Augustus was so forced to adopt Tiberius as nominate him as his successor
Augustus had no sons - big difference. Like Julius Caesar, his great-uncle and adoptive father, Augustus had no sons, so he was left with a nephew (Marcellus, Octavia's son), distaff grandsons (the three sons of Agrippa - Gaius, Lucius, and Postumus), and his stepsons, Tiberius and Drusus. Germanicus and Claudius were Octavia's grandsons via her marriage to Marc Antony. Caligula was Germanicus' son. From Caesar to Augustus, a grandnephew succeeded. From Augustus to Tiberius, a stepson succeeded. From Tiberius to Caligula, a grandnephew succeeded. From Caligula to Claudius, an uncle succeeded. From Claudius to Nero, a grandnephew succeeded (also, a stepson).
Tiberius was a very capable administrator, and general, prior to his ascension to Emperor. During the early part of his reign, he was loved by SPQR as a"Good" Emperor. It wasn't until he secluded himself and set up court at Capri, that he became the degenerate he is accused of becoming. He had anyone considered a danger to his rule put to death, with one notable exception. I think even depraved and debauched Tiberius was blown away by the monster living inside "Little Boots", and savored the thought of unleashing him on the ungrateful Romans
Tiberivs (c. BCE 40 to 37 CE) was a Claudian and much contemporary historical writings date from after Vespasian (who was a Flavian) c. 115-130 CE -the two dynasties hated each other and the Flavians left few hard facts about the ‘divine’ emperors Tiberivs, Clavdivs, Gaivs, Nero, Galba, Othon & Vitellivs untouched - the Flavians supported Tacitus & Suetonius’ histories (etal.) so…well, ‘Nuff Said : ‘History is not only written by the winners-it also can be made-up-if you know how !’ LoL
Such an interesting Post Adrian, I have often wondered if Tiberius was much maligned by all accounts he ran the empire well and finances were well looked after unlike his predecessors Caligula and Nero who more or less bankrupted the empire. I wonder if the malignment from senators etc who Tiberius upset or wouldn’t let them have their own way. My other thought Tiberius was a difficult man to get on with, poor socialisation skills and he didn’t like dealing with people in this day age would Tiberius considered to be autistic? Look,forward to listening to more posts about the Roman Empire.
It is interesting to think what modern psychology would make of Tiberius, isn't it? Rather like the speculation that Field Marshal Montgomery may have been on the autism spectrum because of his well-documented knack for getting people mad at him and not understanding why they were so angry. Unfortunately, distance in time and relative lack of sources make it almost impossible to say for sure.
Tiberius wasn't meant to be Augustus successor Augustus has always seen him in supportive role for next princeps, Tiberius just didn't seem like Rome politics but he was forced to become his heir after Gaius Caesar has died.
Any thoughts on Alexander's dream of conquering the West? Moving through Africa, conquering the Carthagenians, then heading North wrapping up Spain, the Gauls, Italy and the Romans, Germania... Would he have been able to do it had he lived, say, into his 60s?
Could Tiberious refuse to be adopted by Augustus? Could he have said "Nope, I'm happy being head of a family thanks". I realise that politically it would have been very dodgy, but legally could he have refused to be adopted?
@@rc8937 Which emperors? Tiberius was Augustus' stepson and Nero was Claudius' stepson. Emperor #3 was Caligula and he was Tiberius' grandnephew. Emperor #4 was Claudius and he was Caligula's uncle by blood. Claudius married Nero's mother but he was also Nero's great-uncle by blood, just as Julius Caesar was Augustus' great-uncle by blood.
@@rc8937 "Stepson" would imply that Julius Caesar and Augustus' mother were married. Julius Caesar was Augustus' mother's uncle by blood, not her husband.
Everything you need to know about Imperial Rome in an excellent production by the BBC: I, CLAUDIUS (1976) - Episode 01 - A touch of murder th-cam.com/video/Z7XRX1UBooQ/w-d-xo.html
You should see the Caligula film as it is pretty good. Unfortunately it was missing the third act and had a couple of porn seens put in by the producer, Bob Gucionne. That has all been rectified now with the new version of the film which is titled Caligula: The Ultimat Cut.
Excellent answer. I quite like Tiberius. An introvert in an extrovert's job. Very capable and intelligent man in the wrong job.
Great video sir thank you
It's hard to believe a lot of stories written about the private lives of these emperors. Domitian is depicted as a tyrant by historians of the time, and later by Gibbon, but now there is a lot of modern day historians who say that he was a conscientious leader unfairly maligned by his detractors in the Senate. Too bad that many sources of information that might have offered alternative viewpoints and more insight into these leaders have been lost to history.
Tyrant is debatable but he was definitely more authoritarian
This is one of the reasons why I enjoy Mr Goldsworthy's work so much, because he puts primary sources first and doesn't get carried away with his interpretations. Many times while reading his work he will simply admit we don't know about a certain matter - and simply never will. It's history done properly
He wasn't a bad emperor; he got rid of a few (conspirating ?) senators like most emperors did. He left an intact empire with no major crisis going on. Unfortunate for him, he didn't have his own historian to correct his image. I'm pretty sure Titus or old Vespasian weren't all sunshine either.
@@ottovonbismarck2443
Tiberius gets a good write up from the early Christians and a couple of Byzantine emperors were named after him (not to mention Captain Kirk).
So his memory wasn't universally damned.
Domitian was the first Emperor that was able to rule the Empire outside of Rome. "Rome is wherever the Emperor is" started with him. He took power and influence away from the Senate, so they were bound to dislike him. He was quite authoritarian, people had their reasons to assassinate him.
Thank you for posting such interesting material. Hats off to you.
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What a time to be alive!
I've always felt that Tiberias gets an unfair write-up. He seems to have governed well and the Empire was in a good way when he died.
I found Prof. Goldsworthy's biography of Augustus quite eye-opening in that respect. As someone who was heavily influenced by "I, Claudius" it's useful to look at the subject in a more scholarly way and engage with why some of the sources said what they said, as well as what they said.
Agreed. I'd go so far as to say Tiberius was one of the most capable emperors in Roman history. Very few were better prepared for the position.
He always seemed to me like someone who was very intelligent and capable but simply did not have the personality needed to charm and work well with people especially arrogant aristocratics, something Augustus excelled in
@@daniellazaro3591 Maybe too a large extent that just stopped him getting a good write up rather than affecting his governance.
If Tiberius had died in 23 A.D. what you say would be true. But the sad reality is that after the death of his son Drusus the Younger halfway through his long reign, whatever feeble spark of light that had existed in Tiberius's heart went out forever, and he had no further real interest in being an active head of state. Through either paranoia, heartbreak, innate introversion, we do not know, Tiberius thereafter withdrew into his own private world- eventually on Capri, and managed, in the final decade of his reign, to become one of the most loathed and feared emperors Rome ever knew in her long history. If it weren't for the fact that he happened to be succeeded by the first truly terrible emperor in Roman history (Little Boots), he would rank probably even lower in historians estimations, I would be willing to bet.
Excellent question
Tiberius is an interesting one: I always see people praising Germanicus and saying 'if only he'd been allowed to conquer Germania' and that Tiberius was jealous but it looks to me as if he was just far more pragmatic and, well, 'boring' I suppose.
Have you seen British tv show The Caesars from the late 1960s? It's a superb series that is fundamentally pretty sympathetic to Tiberius (though definitely not unreservedly so!!!) for kinda these reasons: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Caesars_(TV_series)
@@conrad4852 I haven't, but thanks for the recommendation.
I'd say Tiberius through his own extensive campaigning
in Germania knew the costs (vs) returns...ie; Germanicus
was successful to some extent but it didn't come easy or
at low cost in time, men and materials.
Brilliant!
George Baker (not the actor who played Tiberius in I Claudius) wrote a great bio around 1930 called Tiberius Caesar. Its pretty fair, and portrays him reasonably well
A nice thoughtful piece 👍 somewhere on the shores of Italy.
Caught you on Times Radio. Dang, you're a busy guy. As a novice, I agree that Tiberius was likely not a sicko. If you're a sicko you tend to go all in. Hiding on an island it no "all in" like Caligula or Nero.
If we should learn anything from Epstein and P Diddy the Diddler it's that the rich and powerful easily become sexually degenerate and perverted. I wouldn't put it past Tiberius being an animal by the time he left for Capri. It might be the mold for Epstein Island.
How's the upcoming novel coming, Professor?
High quality stuff…. Thanks 🙏
Thanks for video
Well Tiberius' age affecting his reign is something I always wonder about, as well as Caligula's subsequent youth. Tiberius was already in his late 60s when he went to Capri, and that was after having the bureaucracy and the senate and Praetorians etc all sort of age along with Augustus. I've always suspected his simply being a tired old man had much to do with everything in his reign.
I would love to listen to your thoughts on the emperor Gallienus. Please!
Do you view him as weak and effeminate as Gibbon put it, or do you see him as holding the pieces together as best as he could during the worst of the crisis years?
A good television series that shows augustus’ strained relationship with Tiberius is “domina” which follows Livia, Augustus’ wife, from her childhood to her marriage to Nero, Tiberius’ father, and then later through her marriage to Augustus while he was emperor
I could do without the constant "fuсks," though, which I half-assume are mere space-fillers to add dialog to a very thin script for a very thin plotline.
Based and Tiberius pilled. Great general, great administrator, his entire life given to state service. His main failing being him putting ever more levels of trust and power into Sejanus subsequently likely due to the probable chronic depression Tiberius sunk to after the death of his son. The tales of Capri are utterly ridiculous and are incomprehensible when compared to his actual known life.
'I Claudius' is utter horseshit, I've watched it twice now with decades apart and still hold to this. It baffles me as to why its held in high regard. ITV's ''The Caesars'' offers a much more authentic attempt at Tiberius and his contemporaries.
Tiberius was the stepson of Augustus and not his first choice as successor but since both of Augustus grandkids died Tiberius was the only one left to become emperor after Augustus died. True Tiberius never wanted to be emperor
Thanks
Tie is what his true friend's called him and no its a Private matter
The relationship between Tiberius and Augustus was complex and fraught with tension. While they were technically father and son, their bond was strained by a number of factors.
Tiberius was Augustus's stepson, and he married Augustus's daughter, Julia. This marriage was unhappy, and Julia was eventually exiled by her father. Tiberius also had a strained relationship with Augustus's grandson, Gaius, who was initially designated as Augustus's heir.
Despite these tensions, Augustus ultimately chose Tiberius as his successor. This decision was likely motivated by a number of factors, including Tiberius's experience as a military commander and his loyalty to Augustus.
The rumors about Tiberius being a sick deviant are largely unfounded. There is some evidence that Tiberius was a reclusive and suspicious character in his later years, but there is no concrete evidence to support the claims that he was sexually deviant or mentally ill.
Tiberius was Livia Drusilla’s elder son. Livia was Augustus’ wife. Augustus had no children, his two adopted nephews (Giuila’s sons, Giulia was Augustus’ daughter who was forced to marry Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa) died before him. Augustus was so forced to adopt Tiberius as nominate him as his successor
Wait, you say Augustus had no children, but then you say Giulia (Julia) was his daughter?
Augustus had no sons - big difference. Like Julius Caesar, his great-uncle and adoptive father, Augustus had no sons, so he was left with a nephew (Marcellus, Octavia's son), distaff grandsons (the three sons of Agrippa - Gaius, Lucius, and Postumus), and his stepsons, Tiberius and Drusus. Germanicus and Claudius were Octavia's grandsons via her marriage to Marc Antony. Caligula was Germanicus' son. From Caesar to Augustus, a grandnephew succeeded. From Augustus to Tiberius, a stepson succeeded. From Tiberius to Caligula, a grandnephew succeeded. From Caligula to Claudius, an uncle succeeded. From Claudius to Nero, a grandnephew succeeded (also, a stepson).
Tiberius was a very capable administrator, and general, prior to his ascension to Emperor. During the early part of his reign, he was loved by SPQR as a"Good" Emperor. It wasn't until he secluded himself and set up court at Capri, that he became the degenerate he is accused of becoming. He had anyone considered a danger to his rule put to death, with one notable exception. I think even depraved and debauched Tiberius was blown away by the monster living inside "Little Boots", and savored the thought of unleashing him on the ungrateful Romans
Tiberivs (c. BCE 40 to 37 CE) was a Claudian and much contemporary historical writings date from after Vespasian (who was a Flavian) c. 115-130 CE -the two dynasties hated each other and the Flavians left few hard facts about the ‘divine’ emperors Tiberivs, Clavdivs, Gaivs, Nero, Galba, Othon & Vitellivs untouched - the Flavians supported Tacitus & Suetonius’ histories (etal.) so…well, ‘Nuff Said : ‘History is not only written by the winners-it also can be made-up-if you know how !’ LoL
Such an interesting Post Adrian, I have often wondered if Tiberius was much maligned by all accounts he ran the empire well and finances were well looked after unlike his predecessors Caligula and Nero who more or less bankrupted the empire. I wonder if the malignment from senators etc who Tiberius upset or wouldn’t let them have their own way. My other thought Tiberius was a difficult man to get on with, poor socialisation skills and he didn’t like dealing with people in this day age would Tiberius considered to be autistic? Look,forward to listening to more posts about the Roman Empire.
It is interesting to think what modern psychology would make of Tiberius, isn't it? Rather like the speculation that Field Marshal Montgomery may have been on the autism spectrum because of his well-documented knack for getting people mad at him and not understanding why they were so angry. Unfortunately, distance in time and relative lack of sources make it almost impossible to say for sure.
Tiberius wasn't meant to be Augustus successor Augustus has always seen him in supportive role for next princeps, Tiberius just didn't seem like Rome politics but he was forced to become his heir after Gaius Caesar has died.
Any thoughts on Alexander's dream of conquering the West? Moving through Africa, conquering the Carthagenians, then heading North wrapping up Spain, the Gauls, Italy and the Romans, Germania...
Would he have been able to do it had he lived, say, into his 60s?
did you watch the TV series " Domina"?
Was Tiberius maybe aspergic?
Could Tiberious refuse to be adopted by Augustus? Could he have said "Nope, I'm happy being head of a family thanks". I realise that politically it would have been very dodgy, but legally could he have refused to be adopted?
Wasn't he Augustus' step son?
Yes, the first 2 emperors were both step sons.
@@rc8937 Which emperors? Tiberius was Augustus' stepson and Nero was Claudius' stepson. Emperor #3 was Caligula and he was Tiberius' grandnephew. Emperor #4 was Claudius and he was Caligula's uncle by blood. Claudius married Nero's mother but he was also Nero's great-uncle by blood, just as Julius Caesar was Augustus' great-uncle by blood.
@@renshiwu305 Augustus was Caesar's step son.
@@rc8937 "Stepson" would imply that Julius Caesar and Augustus' mother were married. Julius Caesar was Augustus' mother's uncle by blood, not her husband.
@@renshiwu305 Ah, my mistake. Yes, an adoptive father is not the same as a stepfather.
Everything you need to know about Imperial Rome
in an excellent production by the BBC:
I, CLAUDIUS (1976) - Episode 01 - A touch of murder
th-cam.com/video/Z7XRX1UBooQ/w-d-xo.html
Great writing, marvelous performances, and an outstanding drama. Accurate history? Not so much.
the video has been blocked.
He’s a history professor, he doesn’t need a freaking fictional television based upon a historical drama novel to understand history. Unlike you :)))
Algorithm
You should see the Caligula film as it is pretty good. Unfortunately it was missing the third act and had a couple of porn seens put in by the producer, Bob Gucionne. That has all been rectified now with the new version of the film which is titled Caligula: The Ultimat Cut.
Did they keep the lawnmower in the final edition?
@joebombero1 yes
i never watched it as the porn scenes put me off . Made me think it would be just designed to shock as its main goal. Might check out the new cut .