well done! brilliant clear comparison review. actually one of the best quick explanations of Scaler 2 as well :). many thanks! .. Scaler 2 is for me based on your excellent review.
I also have both. I prefer scaler because I actually learn using scaler. Epic, makes me lazy, but I get the job done. I’ve been using scaler since it dropped. Thanks for the video!
Great review, very informative and fair. I have both. I like Captain plugins beat machine and melody idea generator, but I like Scaler 2 more for chords and progressions, and detection of chords in songs. They are both great tools.
I'm sold on Scaler 2. I question why the developers of these programs focus on adding all the synth sounds. If chords are the primary delivery who cares about synth patches.
Excellent job! Thank you. I have Scaler 2 - extensively functional, but I feel a bit of a challenge to master. I was looking at other chord generating options that would be easier to use. I was considering Captain Chords Epic and Audiomodern's CHORDJAM. Thanks to your video, I'm choosing Scaler 2 over Captain Chords Epic, hands down. I'm an old-school classic-rock singer-songwriter with no music theory training nor a particular ability to play any instrument well, but I write my songs (music and lyrics), clearly hearing the arrangements in my head - the drums and bass parts, the melody, and all sorts of other instruments, what I need is to find what key/scale my songs are in, then find interesting, fitting, chords to use. Looks like Scaler 2 is the best plugin for my needs.
Thank you SOOO much! Great review! I love your gentle, intelligent, slower paced style. You absolutely helped me make my decision (Scaler 2 for my use case). I subscribed to your channel and look forward to learning more from you
I found it very good. I have a music backgroung and own both the above products but have commenced only recently to explore Captain plugins and have not yet started with Scaler 2. Your video was very informative. thanks Anselm
Great reviews Jeffy, definitely deserved a sub after watching this. I was looking at Epic myself as I make Trance music and when that dreaded writers block hits I thought it could help along a load of new creative ways but then making them my own changing things in my style. So brilliant review plus a big bonus you use logic which I have recently moved over to from Ableton and 2 years of Pro Tools in University and noticed not many people teach Logic on here except 2 I do watch so now your the 3rd. Keep them coming!!
Thank you. You really made me think Scaler 2 is the best choice for me too. A bit more complicated, Scaler 2, and I don't want to learn theory, but I like the "AI like suggestions" that I think I really need. Now it is about deciding which add on offered on promotion!
Thank you for taking the time to make a thorough review on these products! Both look great, but Scaler 2 takes the cake for me. I've relied long enough on my ears so I'm looking for a tool that will further my understanding of music theory while simultaneously help me pump out more music.
Great vid my friend. I got scaler a few months ago and haven't really used it due to the fact that it's not all that intuitive. It looks a great tool but it's by no means a piece of cake to figure out on your own. The good news is that the makers of Scaler have brought out a beginners course covering all the basics and its only around 15 US. I got the course and for sure it's a great help. It's key detection is superb. Not only does it tell what key your melody is in but it also offers other keys which will also work. And it gives you the chords of all of those keys. You can also assign chords to be played by pressing a sing key on the keyboard. Great if like me you're not a piano player. So I can see scaler being very useful to my song writing.
@@JeffyG can I use Scaler as midi thru if I want it to send the midi to other better synths or even mute the instrument in Scaler? I'm using Reaper and I'm worried about the setup with Scaler in this Daw as well, not much info yet in youtube how Scaler works in Reaper...?
@@AllOneKind in Logic - there is a midi FX slot on every channel strip, so yes, Scaler w generates the midi but you can use any VSTi to accept the midi. Even in the scaler demos you often see them using NI Komplete synths, sample instruments, etc. Any virtual instrument will work. Not exactly sure where you plug-in a midi instrument in Reaper.
I got both, and im happy with it. Sometimes use the more "quick" features of Captain, e.g. finding a base line, or beat. Thats awesome ! Scaler is a bit more complex and needs more learning to get used to it, where the functions are, and what they do. Big hint : Captain NEEDS an internet-connection to work !! If that is a problem for you (for me not) then you should avoid...
Hi Jef! Thank you for your nice reviews.I don't have any musical background despite my devotion to electronic music and sound design... In fact I have both product cause of my addiction to music gadgets. But thank to your video I can what exactly does each of them and thank to your professional input I know where to go better. Thank you, Merry Xmas
Thanks much for your overview! Very helpful. I own both. Have found Scaler very frustrating. Very classical music oriented, has many, produces many unexpected changes and results, key changes absolutely out of no where...very frustrating - can be hard to undo, even harder to figuer out where the H they came from....Captain - for me, for more modern production, modern genres is 10 x more useful. Neo soul and jazz potential in Scaler is powerful but I have to have the time to dive in. Both have their place. THanks again brothe!r!
Great video and very helpful, thanks for that. Also, you mention that theres an issue that may be unique to Logic that the cycle seems to always start on bar 2 when using Epic but I also, get the same issue when using Ableton Live 11 on my Mac Studio running Monterey. I just thought it maybe beneficial for you to know :)
Really helpful review thank you. Recently I almost bought Chordjam, but luckily I tried the demo version and was pretty disappointed. The epic suite seems a bit to paint-by-numbers compared to what I want - That's maybe a harsh comment but hopefully you get my gist. Scaler 2 seems to be exactly what I am looking for plus a lot lot more than I expected.
Whether Captain is an AI or not can be answered by the producers themselves. You just have to know how to ask the right questions. Ask them: if it is generating MIDI files, what model do they use? And is there any way to see information about this model?
scaler 2 is complicated and it seems to give a complicated many note midi but I want a baseline, just cut the root notes out of it? but how to do that? which ones to take? will captain give only those so its ready to go midi? and drums too great but don't want complicated synth chords for a two track vocal and synth sample to use for drums or I get phases issues, simple better? what's good that reads the sample and matches key and beat and timing of the bass and drums? anything? matching ai samples too has a lot of instruments so don't want Beethoven
Ok but what software can read an ai sample a full song with vocal and synth but needs drums and bass? So ai or Softwsre uploads my sample and reads it and suggests matching drums and bass line avoiding phase issues by block notes to duck less and sound smooth? Which ? Captain instacomposer Scaper ripchord chord ai etc??? It needs to read the sample first before it suggests chords not just match the key but the beat etc feeling
thank you. definitely leaning to scaler. though, do you know of any drum generators? i think that's where i lack exp and want a helper app. next on my watch list are demos of XO by xln audio
I have XO, Atlas, Playbeat 3 and a few other drum apps that all come with pre-delivered patterns, but my go to is Logic Drum Machine Designer. Beats and patterns are often available as midi (some free, some in packs) that you can just drag into your DAW.
@@joshveldman9046 No. They suggested some setting changes in Logic, without any other ideas. I could tell the support person did not know Logic and did not really understand the problem. If you quantize in Logic, the chords fall on bar 1, beat 1, tik 1, {1 1 1 1} and don't play. If you nudge the first midi notes to 1 1 2 1 they execute correctly. That nudge is so minor, it doesn't affect the timing of your song. I've seen this with other plugins too but can't determine if the issue is in Logic or not. Any midi generated from Logic's delivered tools and m,any, many other 3rd party plugins doesn't seem to have the problem.
@@JeffyG I like Scaler concept but not the Interface, which on 4k screen sucks. Most developers do not have skills to build usable interface, despite they know programing.
Unfortunately, I found out that Captain Epic is an internet based service, and not a plugin that runs on my computer. This rather huge requirement is not clearly stated anywhere, and that says a lot about the integrity of this developer. I haven't opened it since, and will not give another penny to them. On the other hand, Scaler rocks!
@@Michael_Lak I'll take your word for it :) ...my issue isn't the internet connection though. I have a problem sending my data to the cloud, as it's my data, and "Captain" has no business with it. As a software developer, I feel qualified to say that there's absolutely nothing "epic" that these plugins do that requires an internet connection or the "Cloud", so why does "captain" want our data?
I PURCHASE CAPTAIN CORD THE MAIN PROBLEM I HAD WAS RANNING SLOW THAT WAS THE REASON I STOP USIN THE PROGRAM 6 MONTH AGO I TRY AGAIN NOW EVEN WORTH NO IMAGE SHOW NEVER BEEN UPDATE ASKING ME TO UPGRADE I TRY SCALER NO PROBLEM.
Thank you so much for this super useful review!
well done! brilliant clear comparison review. actually one of the best quick explanations of Scaler 2 as well :). many thanks! .. Scaler 2 is for me based on your excellent review.
I also have both. I prefer scaler because I actually learn using scaler. Epic, makes me lazy, but I get the job done. I’ve been using scaler since it dropped. Thanks for the video!
Great review, very informative and fair. I have both. I like Captain plugins beat machine and melody idea generator, but I like Scaler 2 more for chords and progressions, and detection of chords in songs. They are both great tools.
Price wise and features scaler 2 is the big winner!
I'm sold on Scaler 2. I question why the developers of these programs focus on adding all the synth sounds. If chords are the primary delivery who cares about synth patches.
Some chords work better on some instruments and worse on others. It is there to give you a quick idea if your vision works.
Definitely don’t need the synth sounds should stick to functionality ease of use and additional content
Have both.
Scaler confusing and Captain Chords has a latency that is unusable in Cubase.
Looking for something better.
I like the on board sounds.
It helps idea generation for me. But I hear your point
This is the PERFECT video I was looking for! I'll be getting Scaler, thank you so much!
Excellent job! Thank you. I have Scaler 2 - extensively functional, but I feel a bit of a challenge to master. I was looking at other chord generating options that would be easier to use. I was considering Captain Chords Epic and Audiomodern's CHORDJAM. Thanks to your video, I'm choosing Scaler 2 over Captain Chords Epic, hands down. I'm an old-school classic-rock singer-songwriter with no music theory training nor a particular ability to play any instrument well, but I write my songs (music and lyrics), clearly hearing the arrangements in my head - the drums and bass parts, the melody, and all sorts of other instruments, what I need is to find what key/scale my songs are in, then find interesting, fitting, chords to use. Looks like Scaler 2 is the best plugin for my needs.
Thanks. You've sold me on buying scalar on 3 arguments: guitar, AI and helping to learn music theory. 🙏🏼
Dude!!! This was so thorough!
Thanks for taking the time to do this!!!
🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thank you SOOO much! Great review! I love your gentle, intelligent, slower paced style. You absolutely helped me make my decision (Scaler 2 for my use case). I subscribed to your channel and look forward to learning more from you
You can go to midi settings on the project and check the chase midi button to make Logic play all midi notes ! ❤️
I found it very good. I have a music backgroung and own both the above products but have commenced only recently to explore Captain plugins and have not yet started with Scaler 2. Your video was very informative.
thanks
Anselm
This was epic. ❤
Great reviews Jeffy, definitely deserved a sub after watching this. I was looking at Epic myself as I make Trance music and when that dreaded writers block hits I thought it could help along a load of new creative ways but then making them my own changing things in my style. So brilliant review plus a big bonus you use logic which I have recently moved over to from Ableton and 2 years of Pro Tools in University and noticed not many people teach Logic on here except 2 I do watch so now your the 3rd. Keep them coming!!
Lots of DAW experience.
Thank you. You really made me think Scaler 2 is the best choice for me too. A bit more complicated, Scaler 2, and I don't want to learn theory, but I like the "AI like suggestions" that I think I really need. Now it is about deciding which add on offered on promotion!
Thank you for taking the time to make a thorough review on these products!
Both look great, but Scaler 2 takes the cake for me. I've relied long enough on my ears so I'm looking for a tool that will further my understanding of music theory while simultaneously help me pump out more music.
It’s good for that!
@@JeffyG hi where can i install CaptainVSTSetup please
@@JeffyG hi where do i install CaptainPluginsEpic i use fl studio
@@JeffyG hi how do i get vip code for Captain Plugins Epic and for free please if possible
Great vid my friend. I got scaler a few months ago and haven't really used it due to the fact that it's not all that intuitive. It looks a great tool but it's by no means a piece of cake to figure out on your own. The good news is that the makers of Scaler have brought out a beginners course covering all the basics and its only around 15 US. I got the course and for sure it's a great help. It's key detection is superb. Not only does it tell what key your melody is in but it also offers other keys which will also work. And it gives you the chords of all of those keys. You can also assign chords to be played by pressing a sing key on the keyboard. Great if like me you're not a piano player. So I can see scaler being very useful to my song writing.
Scaler 2 has a learning curve. I signed up for the $15 course as well - I need the refresher!
@@JeffyG can I use Scaler as midi thru if I want it to send the midi to other better synths or even mute the instrument in Scaler? I'm using Reaper and I'm worried about the setup with Scaler in this Daw as well, not much info yet in youtube how Scaler works in Reaper...?
@@AllOneKind in Logic - there is a midi FX slot on every channel strip, so yes, Scaler w generates the midi but you can use any VSTi to accept the midi. Even in the scaler demos you often see them using NI Komplete synths, sample instruments, etc. Any virtual instrument will work. Not exactly sure where you plug-in a midi instrument in Reaper.
Yea,Scaler 2 is horrible to use.
Might get the Captain Chords epic.
Nothing but frustration with Scaler 2.
I got both, and im happy with it. Sometimes use the more "quick" features of Captain, e.g. finding a base line, or beat. Thats awesome ! Scaler is a bit more complex and needs more learning to get used to it, where the functions are, and what they do. Big hint : Captain NEEDS an internet-connection to work !! If that is a problem for you (for me not) then you should avoid...
I have both too!
Hi Jef! Thank you for your nice reviews.I don't have any musical background despite my devotion to electronic music and sound design... In fact I have both product cause of my addiction to music gadgets. But thank to your video I can what exactly does each of them and thank to your professional input I know where to go better. Thank you, Merry Xmas
All good helper tools. Even the Pilot plugins have a place in my productions 😊
I have both lol! I’m going to reintroduce myself to the Captain suite. I left alone in favor of Scaler 2
Thanks much for your overview! Very helpful. I own both. Have found Scaler very frustrating. Very classical music oriented, has many, produces many unexpected changes and results, key changes absolutely out of no where...very frustrating - can be hard to undo, even harder to figuer out where the H they came from....Captain - for me, for more modern production, modern genres is 10 x more useful. Neo soul and jazz potential in Scaler is powerful but I have to have the time to dive in. Both have their place. THanks again brothe!r!
Great review ..I use both epic and Scaler as composition aids..they have similar and differing attributes.👍
Thanks, this is very helpful ☺️🙏
Thank you for that review. I decided to subscribe just because of the review.
Thanks for the sub!
Excellent review! Sub'ed. Thank you so much.
Great video and very helpful, thanks for that. Also, you mention that theres an issue that may be unique to Logic that the cycle seems to always start on bar 2 when using Epic but I also, get the same issue when using Ableton Live 11 on my Mac Studio running Monterey. I just thought it maybe beneficial for you to know :)
Really nice video Jeffy ! 🙌🏻🔥
Great video, thank you
Great presentation...I favour scaler myself...
You can also go into settings and change to follow midi in logic
Yep. That addresses the midi lag.
great channel and videos!
Thank you!
I use them both together
Really helpful review thank you. Recently I almost bought Chordjam, but luckily I tried the demo version and was pretty disappointed. The epic suite seems a bit to paint-by-numbers compared to what I want - That's maybe a harsh comment but hopefully you get my gist. Scaler 2 seems to be exactly what I am looking for plus a lot lot more than I expected.
There are a bunch - ChordJam, Chordify, Hookery, etc. I'm sticking with Scaler 2.
Thanks
I have only used Scaler, you don't need to use the built in instruments as playback can be routed to a virtual instrument track.
I like Scaler better...seems to be more straight to point
Whether Captain is an AI or not can be answered by the producers themselves. You just have to know how to ask the right questions. Ask them: if it is generating MIDI files, what model do they use? And is there any way to see information about this model?
Jeff, thank you for your review. Can I use my 3r party plugins with Scaler? Thanks for your help, Ron
Yes! You’re not limited to the instruments/sounds in Scaler. It has a midi device to generate midi for any VST. What DAW are you using?
@@JeffyG, Logic Pro X
scaler 2 is complicated and it seems to give a complicated many note midi but I want a baseline, just cut the root notes out of it? but how to do that? which ones to take? will captain give only those so its ready to go midi? and drums too great but don't want complicated synth chords for a two track vocal and synth sample to use for drums or I get phases issues, simple better? what's good that reads the sample and matches key and beat and timing of the bass and drums? anything? matching ai samples too has a lot of instruments so don't want Beethoven
@@DJ-Clify fair enough
Ok but what software can read an ai sample a full song with vocal and synth but needs drums and bass? So ai or Softwsre uploads my sample and reads it and suggests matching drums and bass line avoiding phase issues by block notes to duck less and sound smooth? Which ? Captain instacomposer Scaper ripchord chord ai etc??? It needs to read the sample first before it suggests chords not just match the key but the beat etc feeling
Please discuss "the instrument" the bassline and chords generator, by Phil Speiser! Guys?
5:37 this is Logic default setting, you can fix it in your project midi configuration
Thanks -
@@JeffyG hi how do i get vip code for Captain Plugins Epic and for free please
@@JeffyG hi how do i get vip code for Captain Plugins Epic and for free please
@@JeffyG hi how do i get vip code for Captain Plugins Epic and for free please if possible
@@nigelphillips7454 I’m sorry, I made this video over 1 year ago - I have no VIP code or discounts.
This video is fucking awesome, exactly what I was looking for Thank you
Thanks,I already have scaler2 , now I don't need to buy Epic.
Take a look at my latest video on Ripchord! Free, easy, fun 🤩
I just finished watching your video introduction about Rapichord. Thank you.
@@JeffyG thanks so much JeffyG ill give it a try
the big question ... which generator sounds better out of the box? scaler 2 makes nice pattersn, not sure about captain
Captain epic needs the internet it’s not so epic
Indeed!
thank you. definitely leaning to scaler. though, do you know of any drum generators? i think that's where i lack exp and want a helper app. next on my watch list are demos of XO by xln audio
I have XO, Atlas, Playbeat 3 and a few other drum apps that all come with pre-delivered patterns, but my go to is Logic Drum Machine Designer. Beats and patterns are often available as midi (some free, some in packs) that you can just drag into your DAW.
@@JeffyG thank you for your reply! love the content
fl studio does the same with Addictive XO(skipping bar one beat 1)
Interesting. I have an open ticket with Epic. They first denied the issue, until I sent them a video of it happening.
@@JeffyG Did they resolve it?
@@joshveldman9046 No. They suggested some setting changes in Logic, without any other ideas. I could tell the support person did not know Logic and did not really understand the problem. If you quantize in Logic, the chords fall on bar 1, beat 1, tik 1, {1 1 1 1} and don't play. If you nudge the first midi notes to 1 1 2 1 they execute correctly. That nudge is so minor, it doesn't affect the timing of your song. I've seen this with other plugins too but can't determine if the issue is in Logic or not. Any midi generated from Logic's delivered tools and m,any, many other 3rd party plugins doesn't seem to have the problem.
@@jeffagoddard It's probably a midi to DAW clock thing as you suspect. And probably no one is motivated to resolve it.
The only thing with Scaler is the performance names are all Italian 😂
Ha ha ha. True!
@@JeffyG sorry how do i get Captain Chords epic Plugins
No captain epic on iPadOS
I got both of them. Scaler GUI really sucks. To dark and unreadable. Because of that I rarely use it. It was waste of money.
Captain Epic has a more friendly UI but I have no problem with Scaler and use it both on my MacBook and my iPad.
@@JeffyG I like Scaler concept but not the Interface, which on 4k screen sucks. Most developers do not have skills to build usable interface, despite they know programing.
Unfortunately, I found out that Captain Epic is an internet based service, and not a plugin that runs on my computer. This rather huge requirement is not clearly stated anywhere, and that says a lot about the integrity of this developer. I haven't opened it since, and will not give another penny to them. On the other hand, Scaler rocks!
Even people in 3rd world countries have constant internet access, you must be doing it tough.
@@Michael_Lak I'll take your word for it :) ...my issue isn't the internet connection though. I have a problem sending my data to the cloud, as it's my data, and "Captain" has no business with it.
As a software developer, I feel qualified to say that there's absolutely nothing "epic" that these plugins do that requires an internet connection or the "Cloud", so why does "captain" want our data?
This is the first plugin ever that doesnt work in reaper. No explanation given.
Wow! Thanks for sharing that important insight.
Which one doesnt work in reaper Scaler or Captain chords?
I have both of these plugins and honestly can’t stand either of them. It’s all shit
Your head is beating like crazy
Nah… I’ll show you crazy in another video.
@@JeffyG hahah great comment 😂👏👏👏
Scaler 2
I PURCHASE CAPTAIN CORD THE MAIN PROBLEM I HAD WAS RANNING SLOW THAT WAS THE REASON I STOP USIN THE PROGRAM 6 MONTH AGO I TRY AGAIN NOW EVEN WORTH NO IMAGE SHOW NEVER BEEN UPDATE ASKING ME TO UPGRADE I TRY SCALER NO PROBLEM.