Just as a point regarding armour and diminishing returns. Armour has diminishing returns in the same way that health, damage and any other flat bonus has diminishing returns; it has 'effective' diminishing returns. 0 Armour to 5 Armour increases your effective HP from 100% to 130%., which is an overall increase of (130% / 100%) - 1 = 30%. 5 Armour to 10 armour is 130% to 160%, but the overall is only (160% / 130%) - 1 = ~23%. Also, the statement of negative Magic Resistance scaling exponentially is incorrect. Magic Resistance from different sources scales multiplicatively. If you had 25% naturally and 25% from an item, you wouldn't have 50% magic resistance, you'd have 1 - (.75 x .75) = 43.75% magic resistance. What this effectively means, however, is that magic resistance IS 'even' in terms of the effective survivability it's giving you. Going from 0% to 25% MR (EHP goes from 100% to 133.33%), your effective health vs magic damage is increased by 33%. Going from 25% to 43.75% MR (EHP goes from 133.33% to 177.77%), your effective health is STILL increased by 33%. Naturally, this isn't super relevant, since MR isn't stacked very often, but it ALSO applies to evasion. Imagine, if you will, that a hero will die in 100 attacks. If you give that hero 25% evasion, it'll on average require 133.33 attacks to kill them. If you give them another 25% evasion, it stacks still stacks multiplicatively. On average, it'll take 177.77 attacks to kill them; the same ratio of going from 0% to 25% evasion. There's also the fact that negative magic resistance doesn't scale in the same manner. If you have -100% mr, you take double damage (essentially 50% EHP). If you have 100% mr, you take no magic damage (essentially infinite EHP).
This. Saying that armor isn't diminishing returns because of EHP is rly dumb If u think there are other types of damage, and also heals included. It's not a test where physical damage is the only damage u get. Also, I was pretty sure autochess evasion worked differently than DotA evasion, DotA will threat as separated instances trying to proc (so yes, diminishing returns), but autochess will simply make the evasion value from 25% to 50% then to 75%, meaning from 100 hits, to 133 hits, to 200 hits, to 400 hits, am I wrong?
A few things are wrong, a few things could be better explained Defining "diminishing returns" depends on what you're looking at: - Armor has diminishing returns for physical damage reduction, but not EHP. - Magic resist has diminishing returns for magical damage reduction, but increasing returns for EHP. Debuffs have the same "effectiveness" as their 'buff' counterparts: reducing armor is reducing EHP, etc. However saying that "things that can't happen twice are less effective" is wrong Evasion actually has increasing returns just like magic resist. 50% evade = 2x EHP, 50% evade + 50% evade = 75% evade = 4x EHP. - Just as "physical damage reduction" is NOT the measure of returns for armor, evade chance is not the measure of returns for evasion. Things like criticals and Maelstrom have diminishing returns for proc chance ONLY because it can only proc once per attack. - Note that criticals scale off of attack DPS output, so even though it does have diminishing returns, you're still better off putting it on your auto-attacking carry unit.
while i agree with most of it, note: mealstroms and mjollnirs are differently coded in auto chess compared to normal dota. hence multiple can proc on the same attack
It is also an argument to make that, all defensive stats(ds) get less effective (even EHP wise) the more you stack it, because additional ds does not has effect on its bonus. For example what I mean: You have 100 EHp. Now you buy ds which increase your EHP to 200. Which is an increase of 100%. However now buying the same ds again, which increase your EHP by 100 again, only gives you a 50% increase from 200 to 300 EHP. So while it gives you same absolute amount, the effectivness for the unit is lower. Which is why stacking only one defensive stat is something you shouldn't do. Always combine armor with hp etc. And also spread the items.
@@xhawkenx633 Only just saw this; might've saved me some time :P . That said, Evasion and Magic Resistance provide the same increase in defense as you stack them; if you have 100 HP and 20% evasion, you have 125 EHP (assuming averages). If you add another instance of 20% evasion, you now have 36% evasion and 156.25 EHP, which is 25% more than 125. That said, evasion isn't relevant and it's still arguably better to spread MR items in order to maximise overall uptime vs AOE damage.
@@xhawkenx633 the life should be high enough that this wont happen. Its like you would need over 100 armor or something when life would be better (dont know the exact numbers, but you can easily calculate when you have the exact formula)
@@mauer1 my point was that it get's less effective the more you stack it on one unit. Yes, in autochess normally you won't reach the point where, armor will be increasing your ehp less than flat hp. However, it still gives us a heuristic to how spread your items over units. If a unit already has an armor item you should perhaps give your next armor item you get to another unit. Because an increase of ehp by 100% for two units is better than an increase of 150% for one unit. And it also tells us that you should give your hp items to units that already have high armor stats. And your armor items that have high hp stats. Ofc you should make exceptions if the surviability of one unit has especially a higher value than generally opting the stats
How does Lunas bouncing attack work? If the first unit she hits is debuffed by blightstone and the attack deals 10% more dmg or if the attack crits do all the bounces deal more dmg or are the subsequent bounces calculated from base dmg?
I think ordering the items by how likely they'd show up would improve the item guide immensely. Like, i get MoM in half of my games but was placed near the end, versus heart of terrasque and sheep stick which almost never show up but were closer to the beginning.
Coolest targets for Mask of Madness: - Phantom Assasin: Highest single target melee damage + fully benefits from the nice lifesteal (why troll, luna and other not-frontliners waste until it's mostly too late). Probably the best of all. - Crystal Maiden: suddenly the mana-buff of your caster team starts kicking a lot of ass! If you make a MoM by accident on a mages team, put it to use :D I learned this by winning a clutch game in which my 3-star cm ended up alone against two guys with low health and owned them.
Amaz mentions Tiny during the guide... But I don't know... yes, sometimes toss can be really bad and end up saving an enemy unit... but most of the time in my experience toss's stun is really worth it.
Hi Amaz! Just wanted to say good work on all the calculations and simplifying things. As a dota player, these kind of calculations and interactions took YEARS to fully understand. I am 100% sure you have helped a lot of people with this video!
The one thing I think you should consider about assault cuirass is you could always keep it on your donkey and move around the fight and it still buffs/debuffs but where you want in the fight at all times
@@spezistyle Yea its actually really useful trust me ive only gotten it like 3-4 times and around the 2-3rd time i figured it out i thought it was a pretty shity item until i used it like that
Amaz, you're absolutely charming and a pleasure to watch. whether it be your youtube videos or your twitch stream, you're simply solid entertainment. Thanks for all you do!
Mask of madness is also good on puck with a dragon build. Otherwise his orb can cause the enemy units to ultimate before you which is typically undesirable.
I don't know if it would be possible to make a cohesive guide on this but it would be nice to have one about how to smoothly transition out of a build if you see that it is being contested by the other players. Right now I struggle the hardest with trying to find a new space to build into without dying before I can complete the switch.
37:07 If your unit has an attack damage of around 260 or more, the crit will actually make up for the loss of attack damage from combining the items. (and you need 66 AD for the Daedalus, though that includes the extra 40 you get from the weapon itself...)
Hey Amaz. Great video! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're wrong on evasion. While it's true that the percentage evasion you gain goes down in a multiplicative system, it doesn't actually have diminishing returns. It has increasing returns (similar to mr). Let's say I get 25% evasion once. My effective HP (assuming I die entirely to autos) is 1000HP/(1-(1-.75))=1000/.75=1333HP. Let's say I get it a second time. Now my effective HP is 1000HP/(1-(1-(.75 x .75)))=1000HP/.5625=1778HP. In this case we see the marginal HP gain of the first 25% evasion chance is 1333-1000=333. The marginal HP gain of the second 25% evasion chance is 1778HP-1333HP=445HP. It's also true that this result is less extreme than if the system was additive (then your first 25% evasion gives you 1333 effective HP and second 25% evasion gives you 2000 effective HP so the second set has a marginal value of 667HP instead of the 445HP in the multiplicative system), which might have been why you were thinking it had diminishing returns since that is what makes crit%/hit% have diminishing returns.
I don't get it. Why would you calculate the EHP of an evasion after an evasion? Because if you consider having evade the first time, you don't get 1333 EHP but 2000, that does ot make sense.
plus damage must be treated differently. Actually what is interesting is number_of_hits_till_kill, which usually is a formula of dmg*attack_speed/effective_hitpoints_of_enemy. And the thing is, some +dmg gives you nothing, because no_of_hits stays the same. For instance if you single hit most enemies and then get +dmg it doesn't help you at all. So both armor and +dmg need to be analysed more specifically. You can also check Star Craft for that. E.g. protoss vs zerg the zergling +1 armor is one of the most important upgrades in the whole game, because it makes zealots take one additional hit to kill them, which in turn dips the whole balance from disadvantage to advantage.
no one ever talks about blink dagger tb.its actually good cuz for some reason tb doesnt blink to the enemy team in melee form and when he become ranged he blink to the farthest location from the enemy and take advantage of its bonus attack range
I do not agree with Kaya on QOP. She will most likely die faster, which means less targets to apply the debuff. It's important on Safer units, that will live until the end of the fight.
I've only see Heart of Tarrasque once, and it was on my 3* Axe while I was already massively ahead. Game win goes without saying, but I don't think he ever died after that.
I hope people who appreciate auto chess mechanics can appreciate how deep dota base game is. I hope it can be a gateway for new players/ spectators autochess is only a scratch on the surface of the deepness of the base game.
tolitz tolibas I had dota2 on my steam since beta but I never dared to install it until I saw autochess. I am a turn based strategy game enthusiast and the late game apm required for autochess is pushing my limits. I love to watch the game and the mechanics explained is awesome but I will never queue into dota. Autochess is such a different game for a different audience imho that it should not be in the same category. It is like expecting HS to raise the popularity of wow.
@@vladdrakuul indeed its a different thing but i did say spectate as well. Same way i watched wow vids when i played hs years ago. Though some ppl might not like watching rts and thats fine noones forcing them. Im just saying if you play real chess why not try watching chess in RTS style which is starcraft if you like it nice if you dont carry on no ones mad.
Hey Amaz, I'm not quite sure about battle fury being the best on Doom by far, I had a lvl 3 Tusk with it (which is way easier to get than Doom) with a lvl 6 beast buff, and, well, he basically one shotted ~3-4 units with his ult since it counts as an auto attack. I also had Doom with it in another match (also with 6 beast buff, I love it) and IMO, the Tusk experience was actually way better^^ (Well, maybe because it's more fun to look at)
holly... does the unit with the assault cuirass equiped get a visual effect like glowing chains around the equipped unit? if so I now know why I've lost that one game I thought I had a guaranteed win (6 hunters, 4 undead and 2 beasts... windraider, sniper and beastmaster lvl3 rest lvl2 .. even the 5gold undead)
a tip with assault cuirass: keep it on your courier, it still works. You can then move your courier to where you need to buff/debuff. It cant die anyway
Amaz you are wrong about hunter and beast dmg bonus synergy. Both take their bonus dmg from heroes Base dmg. So it does not matter if you have both tribes or not, because base dmg will remain the same :)
What about the Ult refresher on DK? Would his ult Dmg get applied twice? Because that would make it really insane if you have DK2 or DK3 with double the AD bonus
i'd mildly disagree with kaya on razor, he attacks two units away, and plasma field does the most to targets farther away, and without another elemental he can be squishy as hell. it's pressence buffs his damage but he's not an ideal carrier for it.
First part was good because I didn't know how the game calculated armor and stuff, but the second half I don't recognize any of the item names because I play Auto Chess Mobile
Samuel Kurniawan damn 25 is when it's starts to really diminish? That's definitely feasible with a couple of items, but I guess that's about the max a unit is likely to get in a typical game. But I guess it then poses the question, is it better to have one tank stacked with tank items, or more than one tank with the items spread out?
Next time I eat chocolate cake at a party and someone offers me a glass of milk I'm going to yell at them to watch this video because the only thing that can wash down this chocolate cake is a mango smoothie.
wait, why is evasion dimishing? it doesnt matter it cants stack if there is no diffrence in outcome if it triggers once. I got the crit and %hit since you cannot trigger it twice and there is a difference between it triggering once and twice, namely damage. However you only need to evade damage once. Evading the same damage twice doesnt change the damage taken. I am confused, don't belive Amaz is wrong, i just dont understand the theory.
When arguing about "diminishing return", you need to define what "return" is. To me, adding armor does have diminishing return: huge difference when EHP goes from 1,000 to 1,300 (armor from 0 to 5), but no difference from 1,000,000 to 1,000,300 (armor from 16,000 to 16,005).
Evasion does NOT have diminishing returns. Consider if you had stacking buffs of 50% evasion that were multiplicative with each other, as evasion is with itself in dota. The first brings you to 50% damage reduction from auto attacks for an effect 100% increase in EHP. The second brings you to 75% damage reduction which is a 100% increase from the first or a total 300% increase from base. The third stack would give a 700% increase from base, etc. Now consider stacking an amount of armour that give 50% damage reduction from 0. The first gives you 50% damage reduction for a 100% increase in EHP. The second gives you 66.6% reduction for a 200% increase from base. The third gives a 300% increase from base, etc. This means stacking evasion with more evasion actually scales better against physical auto attacks than stacking armour, as evasion scales multiplicatively with itself whereas armour scales additively with itself.
Just pointing out that evasion doesnt have diminishing returns. In fact its like MR in the sense that you gain more effective HP the more evasion you gain.
Evasion does in fact have diminishing return. You get 3 different buffs on chances on the same effect. Dodge bonuses therefore stack multiplicatively. So if you have elves, you have around 58% Dodge (0,8*0,75*0,7=0,42) and not 65% like.
First game after watching this I get an assault cuirass and lose QQ, to be fair it was against a mage comp with strong initial CC and I couldn't find a 2nd Naga to mitigate the upfront burst.
Thanks , I have been wondering for months how items stack. Also I must be luckier than you because, I have had a heart, and scythe 2 times. My favorite is refresher on lich. Haha
Man agressive items on drow are insane because of her passive 40% more damage and 40% more aspd so mask instead of giving 40 aspd is going to give 56 aspd because of the passive
@@quocatly7120 well yes, thats what he claims, but how can every single 5 armor increase your EHP by 30 %, when each cumulative 5 armor give you a less and less damage decrease? Doesnt really sound right in my head... :S Maybe i just got it wrong... thanks anyways ^^
About statistics: Amaz could also have easily calculated the probability you can get each item and combination during a game assuming you clear every creep. Just sayin' :)
I personally disagree w the kaya “best on:” units. Wouldnt it be better on units like lina or bounty hunter? U basically oneshit whatever unit they ult on
This guide is useless because i never get items anyway
What is this? A comment I can relate to of some sort?
hahah true xddd
What are items? Never seen one.
@@MidnightBloomDevcan u shut the fuck up pls, just for 1 time? just asking
u annoy the hell out of me
Hands down amazing vid, i like how organized your guide is
It's really impressive how he makes it live in one-take.
Just as a point regarding armour and diminishing returns. Armour has diminishing returns in the same way that health, damage and any other flat bonus has diminishing returns; it has 'effective' diminishing returns. 0 Armour to 5 Armour increases your effective HP from 100% to 130%., which is an overall increase of (130% / 100%) - 1 = 30%. 5 Armour to 10 armour is 130% to 160%, but the overall is only (160% / 130%) - 1 = ~23%.
Also, the statement of negative Magic Resistance scaling exponentially is incorrect. Magic Resistance from different sources scales multiplicatively. If you had 25% naturally and 25% from an item, you wouldn't have 50% magic resistance, you'd have 1 - (.75 x .75) = 43.75% magic resistance. What this effectively means, however, is that magic resistance IS 'even' in terms of the effective survivability it's giving you. Going from 0% to 25% MR (EHP goes from 100% to 133.33%), your effective health vs magic damage is increased by 33%. Going from 25% to 43.75% MR (EHP goes from 133.33% to 177.77%), your effective health is STILL increased by 33%. Naturally, this isn't super relevant, since MR isn't stacked very often, but it ALSO applies to evasion.
Imagine, if you will, that a hero will die in 100 attacks. If you give that hero 25% evasion, it'll on average require 133.33 attacks to kill them. If you give them another 25% evasion, it stacks still stacks multiplicatively. On average, it'll take 177.77 attacks to kill them; the same ratio of going from 0% to 25% evasion.
There's also the fact that negative magic resistance doesn't scale in the same manner. If you have -100% mr, you take double damage (essentially 50% EHP). If you have 100% mr, you take no magic damage (essentially infinite EHP).
This. Saying that armor isn't diminishing returns because of EHP is rly dumb If u think there are other types of damage, and also heals included. It's not a test where physical damage is the only damage u get.
Also, I was pretty sure autochess evasion worked differently than DotA evasion, DotA will threat as separated instances trying to proc (so yes, diminishing returns), but autochess will simply make the evasion value from 25% to 50% then to 75%, meaning from 100 hits, to 133 hits, to 200 hits, to 400 hits, am I wrong?
Thanks Professor Amaz. Now I can pass my Math class.
wait what
A few things are wrong, a few things could be better explained
Defining "diminishing returns" depends on what you're looking at:
- Armor has diminishing returns for physical damage reduction, but not EHP.
- Magic resist has diminishing returns for magical damage reduction, but increasing returns for EHP.
Debuffs have the same "effectiveness" as their 'buff' counterparts: reducing armor is reducing EHP, etc.
However saying that "things that can't happen twice are less effective" is wrong
Evasion actually has increasing returns just like magic resist. 50% evade = 2x EHP, 50% evade + 50% evade = 75% evade = 4x EHP.
- Just as "physical damage reduction" is NOT the measure of returns for armor, evade chance is not the measure of returns for evasion.
Things like criticals and Maelstrom have diminishing returns for proc chance ONLY because it can only proc once per attack.
- Note that criticals scale off of attack DPS output, so even though it does have diminishing returns, you're still better off putting it on your auto-attacking carry unit.
while i agree with most of it, note: mealstroms and mjollnirs are differently coded in auto chess compared to normal dota. hence multiple can proc on the same attack
It is also an argument to make that, all defensive stats(ds) get less effective (even EHP wise) the more you stack it, because additional ds does not has effect on its bonus. For example what I mean:
You have 100 EHp. Now you buy ds which increase your EHP to 200. Which is an increase of 100%. However now buying the same ds again, which increase your EHP by 100 again, only gives you a 50% increase from 200 to 300 EHP. So while it gives you same absolute amount, the effectivness for the unit is lower. Which is why stacking only one defensive stat is something you shouldn't do. Always combine armor with hp etc. And also spread the items.
@@xhawkenx633 Only just saw this; might've saved me some time :P . That said, Evasion and Magic Resistance provide the same increase in defense as you stack them; if you have 100 HP and 20% evasion, you have 125 EHP (assuming averages). If you add another instance of 20% evasion, you now have 36% evasion and 156.25 EHP, which is 25% more than 125. That said, evasion isn't relevant and it's still arguably better to spread MR items in order to maximise overall uptime vs AOE damage.
@@xhawkenx633 the life should be high enough that this wont happen. Its like you would need over 100 armor or something when life would be better (dont know the exact numbers, but you can easily calculate when you have the exact formula)
@@mauer1 my point was that it get's less effective the more you stack it on one unit. Yes, in autochess normally you won't reach the point where, armor will be increasing your ehp less than flat hp. However, it still gives us a heuristic to how spread your items over units. If a unit already has an armor item you should perhaps give your next armor item you get to another unit. Because an increase of ehp by 100% for two units is better than an increase of 150% for one unit. And it also tells us that you should give your hp items to units that already have high armor stats. And your armor items that have high hp stats.
Ofc you should make exceptions if the surviability of one unit has especially a higher value than generally opting the stats
How does Lunas bouncing attack work? If the first unit she hits is debuffed by blightstone and the attack deals 10% more dmg or if the attack crits do all the bounces deal more dmg or are the subsequent bounces calculated from base dmg?
I think ordering the items by how likely they'd show up would improve the item guide immensely. Like, i get MoM in half of my games but was placed near the end, versus heart of terrasque and sheep stick which almost never show up but were closer to the beginning.
Coolest targets for Mask of Madness:
- Phantom Assasin: Highest single target melee damage + fully benefits from the nice lifesteal (why troll, luna and other not-frontliners waste until it's mostly too late). Probably the best of all.
- Crystal Maiden: suddenly the mana-buff of your caster team starts kicking a lot of ass! If you make a MoM by accident on a mages team, put it to use :D
I learned this by winning a clutch game in which my 3-star cm ended up alone against two guys with low health and owned them.
Also tiny, stops him of using toss and tiny has a Lot of damage
Amaz mentions Tiny during the guide... But I don't know... yes, sometimes toss can be really bad and end up saving an enemy unit... but most of the time in my experience toss's stun is really worth it.
Hi Amaz! Just wanted to say good work on all the calculations and simplifying things. As a dota player, these kind of calculations and interactions took YEARS to fully understand. I am 100% sure you have helped a lot of people with this video!
This is a very good guide, along with the other ones. Any chance of updating them with some current/future patches?
The one thing I think you should consider about assault cuirass is you could always keep it on your donkey and move around the fight and it still buffs/debuffs but where you want in the fight at all times
Is this rly true?
@@spezistyle Yea its actually really useful trust me ive only gotten it like 3-4 times and around the 2-3rd time i figured it out i thought it was a pretty shity item until i used it like that
Amaz, you're absolutely charming and a pleasure to watch. whether it be your youtube videos or your twitch stream, you're simply solid entertainment. Thanks for all you do!
also Amaz, i'm a high school science teacher. I can see the teacher in you and its fantastic!
Watching this makes me wanted to eat chocolate and drink mango smooties.
Mask of madness is also good on puck with a dragon build. Otherwise his orb can cause the enemy units to ultimate before you which is typically undesirable.
Back in the day, you can Crit a Crit. Good times
Wait what time was that? WC3 DoTA?
@@khozytechnohead yea, PA with daedaleus.
2010 dotes
Visualising actually having a mango smoothie and chocolate cake while making an analogy - 10/10 content
I don't know if it would be possible to make a cohesive guide on this but it would be nice to have one about how to smoothly transition out of a build if you see that it is being contested by the other players. Right now I struggle the hardest with trying to find a new space to build into without dying before I can complete the switch.
52min Amaz, I just came
37:07 If your unit has an attack damage of around 260 or more, the crit will actually make up for the loss of attack damage from combining the items.
(and you need 66 AD for the Daedalus, though that includes the extra 40 you get from the weapon itself...)
Hey Amaz. Great video! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're wrong on evasion. While it's true that the percentage evasion you gain goes down in a multiplicative system, it doesn't actually have diminishing returns. It has increasing returns (similar to mr). Let's say I get 25% evasion once. My effective HP (assuming I die entirely to autos) is 1000HP/(1-(1-.75))=1000/.75=1333HP. Let's say I get it a second time. Now my effective HP is 1000HP/(1-(1-(.75 x .75)))=1000HP/.5625=1778HP. In this case we see the marginal HP gain of the first 25% evasion chance is 1333-1000=333. The marginal HP gain of the second 25% evasion chance is 1778HP-1333HP=445HP. It's also true that this result is less extreme than if the system was additive (then your first 25% evasion gives you 1333 effective HP and second 25% evasion gives you 2000 effective HP so the second set has a marginal value of 667HP instead of the 445HP in the multiplicative system), which might have been why you were thinking it had diminishing returns since that is what makes crit%/hit% have diminishing returns.
I don't get it. Why would you calculate the EHP of an evasion after an evasion? Because if you consider having evade the first time, you don't get 1333 EHP but 2000, that does ot make sense.
plus damage must be treated differently. Actually what is interesting is number_of_hits_till_kill, which usually is a formula of dmg*attack_speed/effective_hitpoints_of_enemy. And the thing is, some +dmg gives you nothing, because no_of_hits stays the same. For instance if you single hit most enemies and then get +dmg it doesn't help you at all. So both armor and +dmg need to be analysed more specifically.
You can also check Star Craft for that. E.g. protoss vs zerg the zergling +1 armor is one of the most important upgrades in the whole game, because it makes zealots take one additional hit to kill them, which in turn dips the whole balance from disadvantage to advantage.
The best lecture I've ever seen treating auto chess.
no one ever talks about blink dagger tb.its actually good cuz for some reason tb doesnt blink to the enemy team in melee form and when he become ranged he blink to the farthest location from the enemy and take advantage of its bonus attack range
I do not agree with Kaya on QOP. She will most likely die faster, which means less targets to apply the debuff. It's important on Safer units, that will live until the end of the fight.
Actually such a LEGEND Amaz! Love your channel, great content!
52:20 #nocontext "You can now be a queen, just like me."
"Have been ever got ravaged twice? Oh it doesn't feel good" #nocontext 23:59
I just liked instantly after the Effective HP explanation, nice done, nice vid.
I've only see Heart of Tarrasque once, and it was on my 3* Axe while I was already massively ahead.
Game win goes without saying, but I don't think he ever died after that.
I hope people who appreciate auto chess mechanics can appreciate how deep dota base game is. I hope it can be a gateway for new players/ spectators autochess is only a scratch on the surface of the deepness of the base game.
tolitz tolibas I had dota2 on my steam since beta but I never dared to install it until I saw autochess. I am a turn based strategy game enthusiast and the late game apm required for autochess is pushing my limits. I love to watch the game and the mechanics explained is awesome but I will never queue into dota. Autochess is such a different game for a different audience imho that it should not be in the same category. It is like expecting HS to raise the popularity of wow.
@@vladdrakuul indeed its a different thing but i did say spectate as well. Same way i watched wow vids when i played hs years ago. Though some ppl might not like watching rts and thats fine noones forcing them. Im just saying if you play real chess why not try watching chess in RTS style which is starcraft if you like it nice if you dont carry on no ones mad.
Hey Amaz, I'm not quite sure about battle fury being the best on Doom by far, I had a lvl 3 Tusk with it (which is way easier to get than Doom) with a lvl 6 beast buff, and, well, he basically one shotted ~3-4 units with his ult since it counts as an auto attack. I also had Doom with it in another match (also with 6 beast buff, I love it) and IMO, the Tusk experience was actually way better^^ (Well, maybe because it's more fun to look at)
Is there a way to create a testlobby? Like to choose ur units by yourself or have extra gold or something?
Thanks amaz, very cool
holly... does the unit with the assault cuirass equiped get a visual effect like glowing chains around the equipped unit? if so I now know why I've lost that one game I thought I had a guaranteed win (6 hunters, 4 undead and 2 beasts... windraider, sniper and beastmaster lvl3 rest lvl2 .. even the 5gold undead)
That mango smoothy is smooth
a tip with assault cuirass: keep it on your courier, it still works. You can then move your courier to where you need to buff/debuff. It cant die anyway
Doesn´t work on your opponents board then...
@@brunowiekus7934 you secure a win streak with the trick first and put it in later if you really need to damage opponent
Amaz, thank you! Thank you for your excellent work !
thank you lecturer, now i can get my PHD
Professor amaz is lit
Equiping void stone and crown on a same unit works?
49:45 yes
The Actual HP from Axe with 5 armor is 1298,70 HP = 1000 HP / 0,77
Amaz master of real life examples
what about doing a coaching video how to organize board/bench/money and get through a game? would be AMAZing :)
What an insane guide
love your guides :D thank you for explaining it further :D
Thanks Amaz
Amaz you are wrong about hunter and beast dmg bonus synergy. Both take their bonus dmg from heroes Base dmg. So it does not matter if you have both tribes or not, because base dmg will remain the same :)
What about the Ult refresher on DK?
Would his ult Dmg get applied twice? Because that would make it really insane if you have DK2 or DK3 with double the AD bonus
No, his ultimate is sort of transformation. If you have ult refresher you will just transform again. You can try this in hero demo mode
i'd mildly disagree with kaya on razor, he attacks two units away, and plasma field does the most to targets farther away, and without another elemental he can be squishy as hell. it's pressence buffs his damage but he's not an ideal carrier for it.
Love the mango smoothie reference
First part was good because I didn't know how the game calculated armor and stuff, but the second half I don't recognize any of the item names because I play Auto Chess Mobile
juggernaut spin does magic damage so you should include him?
He did on 31:20?
The armour technically does have diminishing returns, but it's only really noticeable in game if your unit has like 50 armour.
Well, armor doesn't do well if they get to 25+ points, but 25 armor is the most value if u count it right.
Samuel Kurniawan damn 25 is when it's starts to really diminish? That's definitely feasible with a couple of items, but I guess that's about the max a unit is likely to get in a typical game.
But I guess it then poses the question, is it better to have one tank stacked with tank items, or more than one tank with the items spread out?
You forgot about lifesteal, Amaz!
Lifesteal should be like armor
Next time I eat chocolate cake at a party and someone offers me a glass of milk I'm going to yell at them to watch this video because the only thing that can wash down this chocolate cake is a mango smoothie.
Does battlefury still work on tb after transformation I guess not but im not sure would be nice to know
Damn this was one helluva journey but I made it, thank you.
wouldn't vanguard not be dr since it gives you regen and hp besides the % block?
Mango smoothie HYPE!
Zeus coming out makes refresher orb even sillier
As an aside to dagon, multiple dagons are better than dagon upgrades in most cases.
That DK though HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Does battle fury do anything on dragon knight?
wait, why is evasion dimishing? it doesnt matter it cants stack if there is no diffrence in outcome if it triggers once. I got the crit and %hit since you cannot trigger it twice and there is a difference between it triggering once and twice, namely damage. However you only need to evade damage once. Evading the same damage twice doesnt change the damage taken. I am confused, don't belive Amaz is wrong, i just dont understand the theory.
When arguing about "diminishing return", you need to define what "return" is. To me, adding armor does have diminishing return: huge difference when EHP goes from 1,000 to 1,300 (armor from 0 to 5), but no difference from 1,000,000 to 1,000,300 (armor from 16,000 to 16,005).
Who the hell eats cake with a smoothie? I bet you like orange juice right after you brush your teeth. Lol
why do i want to buy him a chocolate cake and a mango smoothie and watch him eat and drink it lol
We end up smarting
Thanks smart guy, I will put your teachings to good use
Thanks for the link in Twitch.
Isnt Kaya best on single targen magic dealers like Lina and Viper?
xNexiz yeah but they usually don't ult the target they hit
Or in Linas case just sit with 100 Mana until they die and not Ult at all
@@xNexiz Its a debuff on the target where it hits. Lina and Viper, as our friend has said, doesn't usually ults on the target they are attacking.
Evasion does NOT have diminishing returns.
Consider if you had stacking buffs of 50% evasion that were multiplicative with each other, as evasion is with itself in dota.
The first brings you to 50% damage reduction from auto attacks for an effect 100% increase in EHP. The second brings you to 75% damage reduction which is a 100% increase from the first or a total 300% increase from base. The third stack would give a 700% increase from base, etc.
Now consider stacking an amount of armour that give 50% damage reduction from 0. The first gives you 50% damage reduction for a 100% increase in EHP. The second gives you 66.6% reduction for a 200% increase from base. The third gives a 300% increase from base, etc.
This means stacking evasion with more evasion actually scales better against physical auto attacks than stacking armour, as evasion scales multiplicatively with itself whereas armour scales additively with itself.
Wait does Auto chess 's amour mechanic have different armour mechanic than doto ?
Amaz had AC in the very next game and lost it.
I learned more about math from this video than I did from highschool.
23.47. When u have 6 mage and dragon. There just melt your medusa before can cast anything.
If i had the itens of kaya and dagon, what to build? for razor on a 3 mage build
You should put your chat in the video/stream, thats part of your content and your videos will be so much better and you will have more views.
Just pointing out that evasion doesnt have diminishing returns. In fact its like MR in the sense that you gain more effective HP the more evasion you gain.
Evasion does in fact have diminishing return. You get 3 different buffs on chances on the same effect. Dodge bonuses therefore stack multiplicatively. So if you have elves, you have around 58% Dodge (0,8*0,75*0,7=0,42) and not 65% like.
Amaz is attack speed diminishing equal or positive
I imagine its positive like magic since its a percentage
Im with you amaz
First game after watching this I get an assault cuirass and lose QQ, to be fair it was against a mage comp with strong initial CC and I couldn't find a 2nd Naga to mitigate the upfront burst.
I usually use CM towards the front since her damage is so low and her aura persists after she dies. Am I doing it wrong?
agtk cm aura lasts until cm dies it was a bug that got fixed months ago
Shieeet solid mathematics lesson Professor Amaz!
Thanks, after watching your guide i put a Quarterstaff and a Mobid Mask in my medusa! Now she has a Mask of Madness!
queen lvl plays
Mask of Madness chaos knight saved me from dying early
Scamaz please review rise of shadows card
Im confused. does crown+void stone stack?
Thanks , I have been wondering for months how items stack. Also I must be luckier than you because, I have had a heart, and scythe 2 times. My favorite is refresher on lich. Haha
>DPS items
>Lich is recommended
Ah the classic carry Lich. Just like my pubs.
Lich 1* has 55 base attack so he ults very slow if you give him some dmg you increase his mana gain and he ults fastsr so he can hit more pieces
@@digal321 its a reference to the Carry Lich strat to the actual game, also, mana regen items are better on Lich than damage one.
Are you sure about refresher on lone? I try it once and the first bear instantly dying when lone cast his ult with refresher
no it doesn't, i've tried it once and it works fine
MANGO SMOOTHIEEEEE TIME!
Mango smoothie is a bad example for diminishing returns, I said, sipping on my 26th mango smoothie of the night.
Man agressive items on drow are insane because of her passive 40% more damage and 40% more aspd so mask instead of giving 40 aspd is going to give 56 aspd because of the passive
But it's 15% crit for 1.5 of your total damage
Why does Gyro with 25 armor and 1000 HP equal 2500 HP and not 1667 HP (1000/0,6 = 1667 HP) with the presumption that he has 60% resist?
5 amor give you about 30% hp so that mean 25 amor give you 150% more
@@quocatly7120 well yes, thats what he claims, but how can every single 5 armor increase your EHP by 30 %, when each cumulative 5 armor give you a less and less damage decrease? Doesnt really sound right in my head... :S
Maybe i just got it wrong... thanks anyways ^^
Does CM buff stack?
Bishop guide Pog
About statistics: Amaz could also have easily calculated the probability you can get each item and combination during a game assuming you clear every creep. Just sayin' :)
I personally disagree w the kaya “best on:” units. Wouldnt it be better on units like lina or bounty hunter? U basically oneshit whatever unit they ult on
bh and lina ult different unit most of the time, not the one who they attack
is a crown and a void stone stack ?