That's probably because most gun designers in that period just worked with trial and error in stead of trying to calculate all the forces working inside the gun.
From what I've found - the physics work, its a form of static friction, and was used in naval guns successfully (thats where Blish got his inspiration from), but for small arms its just not practical and had only a small effect if any.
The Blish patent is not entirely bollocks. Blish did discover and describe a real mechanical phenomenon that could be replicated in experiments. The problem was that he misunderstood the CAUSE for it. As Ian said, a Blish mechanism works by redirecting forces and allowing only a fraction of the force to actuate the unlocking mechanism, thus delaying opening of the breech. It did to some extent rely on the friction between the surfaces, and surfaces made with different materials would have a different coefficient of friction compared to surfaces made with the same material. Up to that point Blish got it right, which is why you could build a perfectly functioning firearm with the Blish principle. Beyond that point it's all bollocks.
HK G3s are delayed blowback. I've seen G3s (at least a modified HK G3 roller delayed system) chambered in 300 Winchester magnum and .338 lapua magnum. It works! As long as you design it right...
More like killing one enemy bird with one stone and killing a friendly bird with another. Seriously, that would have really caused some damage to your squadmates on your right.
The Thompson Autorifle got a delightfully 1920's held-back rebuke from Ordnance in one of the tests: "Unless radical and unforeseen improvements are made in the guns submitted to the Board, further testing of these guns is not warranted."
That's just a statement of fact. Military types aren't known for beating around the bush. It would be rude if they implied that the gun shpuld be resubmitted with no intention of giving it real consideration so they told the truth. That's not even a rebuke, just an honest opinion.
The SVT was a great gun, the soviets where just too poor to produce it. It has a false reputation of beating itself apart because collectors don't know what gas adjustment is. The point of the gas adjustment was to let it fire different ammunition (since it was supposed to be the new DMR/sniper) not run in adverse conditions like something like an FAL has, that's why it needs a tool to change. It is admittedly finicky, and getting gas adjustment right is important. It's probably one of the best first gen semi autos.
That locking mechanism for such a high power cartridge is terrifying; the fact that it doesn't explode when you fire it and that it lasted so long in trials amazes me.
Thompson sounds like the Mr. Magoo of firearms engineers. He made two gun designs that accidentally worked (more or less) based off a physical principle that doesn't exist! That's actually pretty amazing.
I always think "man, I'd love to have one of those," and then I remember what channel I'm on and after flashbacks of auction closing prices I say "oh well, the pictures are nice."
@@sumvs5992 I was actually rederring to the MAC guns, which didn't technically use the bolt as a rear sight, they just cut a trough in it so you could see through, but unlike the Uzi, the MACs had a reciprocating bolt, so it was snapping back and forth while firing. But since you'd be looking through the bolt already (if you even bothered to aim), I doubt it would be as noticeable as with the gun in this video.
@@LifeisGood762 Purposefully build delayed blowback, and delayed blowback based on an incidental bolt handle acting like a locking lug seems very different.
@@LifeisGood762 but would that be a ROLLER DELAYED blow-back? or even the "wedge" delayed like the DP-28 (and a few early HKs iirc) or were they "simple" delayed blow back.... AKA, a big old spring and thats it
You gotta love those anecdotes about the case ejection velocity of a *delayed blowback 30-06* that was unintentionally the funniest thing I have heard all week
H&K would later reproduce these case velocities in their Model 21 LMG. (Anyone who has been unlucky enough to be positioned beside a H&K21 knows what I mean)
The blish effect isn’t just a theory on physics. It has to do with friction between two dissimilar metals, and is more based on chemistry. That’s why the inside of that gun is brass and the outside is steel. He was 100% correct. The problem is once any type of fouling, dirt, lubricant, or corrosion gets in between the working surfaces, the metals don’t contact each other any more, and the entire point of the system is ruined. Then it becomes a delayed blowback. The first shot out of the factory probably worked as intended. Many metals have a ton of weird interactions with each other that don’t really make sense.
Holy cow, this gun sold for $63k. I always wonder the type who pays that money. But I can imagine the excitement of getting such a rare and valuable gun. He or she must have really wanted it.
its collectibility is exceptionally obvious. it was produced in extremely small numbers, but has a very famous brand name because the SMG was very popular, and it also has the peculiar blish lock in common with the SMG, increasing the benefit of the association. it also is a hilariously stupid and unsafe failure of a gun, which gives it value as a curiosity. ans it's in a category of high value collectibility where people don't want to shoot the guns anyways to preserve value, so it's irrelevant that the safety level in shooting this gun would be very dubious.
Blish reminds me of Discworld's Bloody Stupid Johnson. He had absolutely no real understanding of the underlying concepts of physics, but he somehow still managed to create the impossible on a pretty regular basis.
“Huh, I wonder why the bolt handle keeps shearing off? I guess it needs to be hardened, like the locking lugs... I don’t know why the rifle keeps exploding, I followed the Blish principle exactly...” - *Thompson, developing his trials rifle*
Wow, a rifle that ejects with more violence than the Hakim... I am impressed! Thank you again, Ian, for another chapter of firearms history I'd never heard of.
I've honestly grown to hate Blish. Thompson built beautiful, sturdy, and well thought out designs based on a totally flawed principle he was for whatever reason completely convinced was real. If Blish had never existed I wonder if Thompson would've made guns based on something real, or if he never would've been inspired to make firearms to begin with.
Well, the gun kinda works, so the principal is truth, right? It is all magic and MLP, when you don't have 11 grade level of knowledges of physics, and i haven't heared that John T. Thompson had those
It works as a direct blowback system with full power cartridges, that is to say dangerously hard and fast, as opposed to having any kind of delaying effect from the theoretical blish locking principle. It would be obvious to anyone seeing it tested that it was dangerously un-delayed.
Probably thought the Blish principle still existed, just wasn’t strong enough for a full powered rifle cartridge but strong enough for a pistol cartridge. The Thompson worked, so they kept it until the M1 and M1A1 simplifications.
@@gameragodzilla Blish principle does exist, It's simply not effective for firearms. Whether it be because it requires very clean surfaces, not enough forces, or the fact you need a delayed blow back mechanism for blish to work anyways.
A Beautiful peace of history. You don't want to be the guy standing next to the guy firing this though. The ejected shell could hurt you, even blind you...
As always thank you Ian! I would be interested to see a episode solely on the Blish system, or other completely wrong concepts that still produced working firearms.
The problem with the blish system is actually exacerbated by the choice of brass for the locking block. Differing grain structure in the metals will lower friction. Watches and clocks have steel pinions and brass wheels to lower friction.
personally when i first heard the concept, i'm wowed by it. it is after i understood the working mechanism, then i felt, this is too complicated even for today's standards. thank you ian for letting us know about a gun like this.
That wide open slot in the rear of the receiver would likely have been wonderful in the sea water and sand on the beaches of Normandy. /sarcasm This looks like it would also be a nightmare to try and mass produce.
Hi Ian, thanks for keeping on doing interesting videos. The thing is, I believe, that if the locking lugs are part of interrupted thread (the locking surfaces are not perpendicular to the bore axis but rather angled), the force bearing surfaces can be any of them or the handle. As soon as the locking lugs disconnect from the receiver recesses the only force bearing surface is of course the handle, but before then, it can be any combination of those surfaces and handle, depending on tolerances, wear and deformation under stress. Seem that the handle could easily snap of if you're right. Thanks once more, Martin
If you think about it, any change in cartridge load completely defeats the delayed blowback or it doesn't work at all. Dissimilar metals rubbing against each other would lead to galling, which might be ok for a large naval gun that fires relatively few rounds, but would be unacceptable for a service rifle. It would be a nightmare to monitor: your first indication of excessive wear would be an injured soldier!
I think my favorite part of this rifle is the fact that you have to have the weapon de-cocked in order to engage the safety/dust-cover, which basically means you either have to have the weapon unloaded completely or have the chamber empty to engage it, a completely impractical redundancy for a military infantry rifle. Either this was a complete oversight or Thompson, Colt, and the entire design team behind this gun; or those same people must have all been huge fans of the Reichsrevolver...
That was my thought too. *camera starts to pan length of rifle* Me: Oh wow, that's actually really nice looking. Amazing condition given the- *camera pans across a gigantic open slot in the rear of the receiver* Me: Oh no...
^ Semi-autos don't really overheat my man :D That's just the worst design possible and this open area doesn't seem to have any purpose other than cause malfunctions :D
I thought I was having a severe case of deja vu, till I got to the end and saw the link to the other video you've done a little over 2 years ago on this same model of rifle. I think I watched that one sometime recently because it seemed like you said a lot of the same things in this one, especially about the unusual safe and fire position indicators.
I could see the Blish idea working at pressures not achievable in a gun, like say enough pressure to just start pushing the materials together at the molecular level thus locking them together until the pressure is lessened and they can un-link again.
86 abaile this is actually not that uncommon. Especially in firearms where the safety is a simple interrupter. It’s like that so you can’t put the safety on while there is a round chambered, to prevent drop firing and such.
In which case its more a case of 'safe prove theres nothing in the chamber' rather than a gun locked and loaded If it would be more obvious to see it would be useful for training ranges so the instructor can easily see that all guns are safe before someone moves around the line of fire for whatever reason, say standing infront of the recruits to tell them something or whatever
@@riverstyxarmory9782 It's weird, though. There's no way to put the safety ON while the gun is ready to fire. You can only engage the safety on an empty chamber, which is the least important time to needed a safety. So the firing procedure would have to be: awkwardly rotate safety off, and then chamber a round. That's not exactly quick.
Did I just see correctly? In order to set the safety (8:25), you had to pull the trigger? Who was holding Thompson's beer for that one? Seriously, what is the thinking behind that?
There really are some absolutely crazy, unique, awesome, innovative America guns designed between 1900 and 1960's. It was like a boom of creativity in the gun industry, and it gave us some of the best, longest lasting guns on the planet. The famous Mauser action... basically every bolt action made to this day is based off it. The Browning M2, the 1911, the AR-10/AR-15 just to name a few.
This needed a secont cam path with a corresponding lug, both cam paths becoming fully transversal at the "locked" end, and a gas tube leading up to the bolt handle blowing gas upward. Direct impingement as it is :D
Can confirm; delayed blowback 308s sling brass like a slingshot. My ptr91(wannabe G3) throws brass well over 30 feet. Never had a failed to eject though!
an excellent precis as always Ian. glad you guys had the garrand and the Springfield in WWII. we had the excellent variants of the SMLE 303. both still outstanding hunting rifles.
Its actually impressive to design a rifle on a entirely false understanding of physics and it still be able to fire.
That's probably because most gun designers in that period just worked with trial and error in stead of trying to calculate all the forces working inside the gun.
The accidental rifle. lol
From what I've found - the physics work, its a form of static friction, and was used in naval guns successfully (thats where Blish got his inspiration from), but for small arms its just not practical and had only a small effect if any.
@@taumil3239
Ok.
So its more practical much larger scales. I'll have to google it when Im off work later
The Blish patent is not entirely bollocks. Blish did discover and describe a real mechanical phenomenon that could be replicated in experiments. The problem was that he misunderstood the CAUSE for it. As Ian said, a Blish mechanism works by redirecting forces and allowing only a fraction of the force to actuate the unlocking mechanism, thus delaying opening of the breech. It did to some extent rely on the friction between the surfaces, and surfaces made with different materials would have a different coefficient of friction compared to surfaces made with the same material. Up to that point Blish got it right, which is why you could build a perfectly functioning firearm with the Blish principle. Beyond that point it's all bollocks.
Everyone: “blish lock doesnt work mate”
Thompson: “see if i care”
*IGNORANCE IS BLISH*
😂 That last line was comedy gold, well done.
lmao
Stunning punning...
Technically it does work
As a very inefficient delayed blowback design
@@howler6490 Pun indented.
The words "blowback 30-06" cause me to tremble a little bit.
A truly terrifying thought upon any kind of serious (or not so serious) contemplation.
Ten pound bolt maybe lol
@@buckhulit2718 Spring taken out of the suspension of a truck
HK G3s are delayed blowback. I've seen G3s (at least a modified HK G3 roller delayed system) chambered in 300 Winchester magnum and .338 lapua magnum. It works! As long as you design it right...
Wow Thomson is truly being environmentally conscious. 1 bullet and 1 case, both lethal. Now thats truly 2 birds with one stone.
Defense against attacks from the right flank.
"100 percent more bullet per shot." Cave Johnson
In an alternate history WW2 you have the guy with the bazooka shouting "Clear backblast!", and every single US rifleman shouting "Clear sideblast!"
More like killing one enemy bird with one stone and killing a friendly bird with another. Seriously, that would have really caused some damage to your squadmates on your right.
Pity it ejects to the side. If only they had gone the route of the FN 2000...
Thompson:”I forgot physics, but I guess it works”
Army:”no it doesn’t”
Thompson:*fires*
Army:”Yeah we don’t want it”
Tbh it looks shady as hell
@@ArpaZha army: damn you got this from wish right?
Should be right up your alley though, very steampunk.
*Case lodged in ceiling*
The Thompson Autorifle got a delightfully 1920's held-back rebuke from Ordnance in one of the tests:
"Unless radical and unforeseen improvements are made in the guns submitted to the Board, further testing of these guns is not warranted."
Antique Epic burn.
that's beaurocrat for "what is this shit?"
Politically correct way of saying “get this fucking thing out of my site”
When pigs fly, we'll test this gun
That's just a statement of fact. Military types aren't known for beating around the bush. It would be rude if they implied that the gun shpuld be resubmitted with no intention of giving it real consideration so they told the truth. That's not even a rebuke, just an honest opinion.
It really says something when when a kitbashed BAR magazine is the best engineered part
none of this gun is badly engineered, the operating principle just isn’t true. the gun still works, it’s just wrong
@@floo14657 7
A good rule of thumb with early semi-autos: if it looks like a converted bolt action it probably isn’t that great
/ if they didn't keep making it for at least 20 years, there was a reason...
cough cough howell cough cough svt-40 cough cough
Canucks Fan Hold on, are you saying these were good, or bad?
(I think both are a bit of each.)
@@Zbyhonj the Howell rifle was fairly good, and advanced for its time
The SVT was a great gun, the soviets where just too poor to produce it. It has a false reputation of beating itself apart because collectors don't know what gas adjustment is. The point of the gas adjustment was to let it fire different ammunition (since it was supposed to be the new DMR/sniper) not run in adverse conditions like something like an FAL has, that's why it needs a tool to change. It is admittedly finicky, and getting gas adjustment right is important.
It's probably one of the best first gen semi autos.
That locking mechanism for such a high power cartridge is terrifying; the fact that it doesn't explode when you fire it and that it lasted so long in trials amazes me.
It amazes me indeed
I was thinking the same thing. That i probably wouldnt be "brave" enough to shoot that rifle...
only way to safely shoot that thing is to attach it to a string and hide behind a bulletproof glass.
How is this comment 2 weeks old?
Patreon perks...
Thompson sounds like the Mr. Magoo of firearms engineers. He made two gun designs that accidentally worked (more or less) based off a physical principle that doesn't exist! That's actually pretty amazing.
He pulled a "Homer". 😁
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_Defined
I always think "man, I'd love to have one of those," and then I remember what channel I'm on and after flashbacks of auction closing prices I say "oh well, the pictures are nice."
I can relate. At least we have some cheapo blackpowder handcannons here in Poland.
Quite a few different firearms I'd rather spend $64,000 on.
A trunk full of Barretts lol
@@polomat14 o
At least you get the chance to buy them. I can't even own guns.
(Sees the shells sticking out of the board)US Military: I have some concerns
The fact that you are uncomfortable disassembling this gun compared to others that you have done is saying something about how much can go wrong.
Two years with another variant he didn’t even risk it haha
Ya that thing is…just looks like about to burst apart when look at it.
Also, how much its worth...no.25 out of 25?
Looking at that bolt hold-open... Before there was HK slap, there was Thompson slap!
can't forget about the new term: mosin nagant beatdown. bolts that are so mushy you need to give it a beatdown to open it up
@@FrostyShock349
Get the cosmoline out of the locking lug recesses, damnit.
@@zacharyrollick6169no. The garbage rod is not worthy of any sort of maintenance
I wanna see it fired. Preferably with high speed to calculate the exit veloxity of the spent cartridges
Exit velocity? More like escape velocity.
Implying that thing is safe enough to fire
Having that bolt snapping up into your sight picture and coming at your eye at high velocity would be just a tad distracting, I think.
I kinda doubt that's an issue, the Pedersen has a similar issue and I've never heard anyone complain about it
Okay, weird idea, but what about a bolt handle that just goes backwards and fowards, but is on top and used as a rear sight?
@@sumvs5992 Pfft, only a lunatic would come up with something like that, then put it on a really compact, center-grip submachinegun.
@@Bacteriophagebs yeah I think I just remembered the annihilator. I'm a bit of an idiot sometimes.
@@sumvs5992 I was actually rederring to the MAC guns, which didn't technically use the bolt as a rear sight, they just cut a trough in it so you could see through, but unlike the Uzi, the MACs had a reciprocating bolt, so it was snapping back and forth while firing.
But since you'd be looking through the bolt already (if you even bothered to aim), I doubt it would be as noticeable as with the gun in this video.
Never thought I'd hear the words "delayed blowback" when describing a .30-06.
Why? HK made delayed blowback .308s. I think they even made some commercial .30-06 hunting rifles.
Michael Treu this thing is closer to straight blowback than any of HK’s delayed blowback stuff.
@@LifeisGood762 Purposefully build delayed blowback, and delayed blowback based on an incidental bolt handle acting like a locking lug seems very different.
@@emilychb6621 yes..... yes it is lol
@@LifeisGood762 but would that be a ROLLER DELAYED blow-back? or even the "wedge" delayed like the DP-28 (and a few early HKs iirc)
or were they "simple" delayed blow back.... AKA, a big old spring and thats it
You gotta love those anecdotes about the case ejection velocity of a *delayed blowback 30-06* that was unintentionally the funniest thing I have heard all week
Gotta hand it to him, he made a rifle on a now disproven theory and it still vaguely worked ? Eh he did better than I would have.
Automatic rifle fitted with an Anti Air-brass system. Modularity!
Perpendicular indirect fire support /anti air
H&K would later reproduce these case velocities in their Model 21 LMG. (Anyone who has been unlucky enough to be positioned beside a H&K21 knows what I mean)
Kill one bird and one enemy per shot!
*Waves fingers*
This is not the famed Thompson you were looking for
"Mind tricks don't work on me. Only money."
Move along, move along.
This is not the famed Thompson I was looking for.
Move along.
I don't wanna sell you death sticks
Same guy, different project.
The blish effect isn’t just a theory on physics. It has to do with friction between two dissimilar metals, and is more based on chemistry. That’s why the inside of that gun is brass and the outside is steel. He was 100% correct. The problem is once any type of fouling, dirt, lubricant, or corrosion gets in between the working surfaces, the metals don’t contact each other any more, and the entire point of the system is ruined. Then it becomes a delayed blowback. The first shot out of the factory probably worked as intended. Many metals have a ton of weird interactions with each other that don’t really make sense.
This gun, is legitimately deadly to anyone within 15 feet of it, including those using it.
Holy cow, this gun sold for $63k. I always wonder the type who pays that money. But I can imagine the excitement of getting such a rare and valuable gun. He or she must have really wanted it.
its collectibility is exceptionally obvious. it was produced in extremely small numbers, but has a very famous brand name because the SMG was very popular, and it also has the peculiar blish lock in common with the SMG, increasing the benefit of the association. it also is a hilariously stupid and unsafe failure of a gun, which gives it value as a curiosity. ans it's in a category of high value collectibility where people don't want to shoot the guns anyways to preserve value, so it's irrelevant that the safety level in shooting this gun would be very dubious.
This thing is a real gun of a blish.
Most underappreciated comment of the entire comment section.
Blish reminds me of Discworld's Bloody Stupid Johnson. He had absolutely no real understanding of the underlying concepts of physics, but he somehow still managed to create the impossible on a pretty regular basis.
With all it’s complexity and quirks, I’d still love to try this rifle out.
“Huh, I wonder why the bolt handle keeps shearing off? I guess it needs to be hardened, like the locking lugs... I don’t know why the rifle keeps exploding, I followed the Blish principle exactly...” - *Thompson, developing his trials rifle*
Wow, a rifle that ejects with more violence than the Hakim... I am impressed!
Thank you again, Ian, for another chapter of firearms history I'd never heard of.
I've honestly grown to hate Blish.
Thompson built beautiful, sturdy, and well thought out designs based on a totally flawed principle he was for whatever reason completely convinced was real.
If Blish had never existed I wonder if Thompson would've made guns based on something real, or if he never would've been inspired to make firearms to begin with.
The real question, in my mind, is why Thompson remained convinced in the efficacy of the Blish principle after seeing this thing tested.
Well, the gun kinda works, so the principal is truth, right? It is all magic and MLP, when you don't have 11 grade level of knowledges of physics, and i haven't heared that John T. Thompson had those
It works as a direct blowback system with full power cartridges, that is to say dangerously hard and fast, as opposed to having any kind of delaying effect from the theoretical blish locking principle. It would be obvious to anyone seeing it tested that it was dangerously un-delayed.
Probably thought the Blish principle still existed, just wasn’t strong enough for a full powered rifle cartridge but strong enough for a pistol cartridge. The Thompson worked, so they kept it until the M1 and M1A1 simplifications.
@@gameragodzilla Blish principle does exist, It's simply not effective for firearms. Whether it be because it requires very clean surfaces, not enough forces, or the fact you need a delayed blow back mechanism for blish to work anyways.
By description, it would kick like a mule! Thanks Ian.
The Blish principle. This will remain on of my favorites.
A Beautiful peace of history.
You don't want to be the guy standing next to the guy firing this though. The ejected shell could hurt you, even blind you...
I do like that it has a full-blown Mauser style extractor though. Mauser claw extractor on a full-power battle rifle makes me drool.
Honestly, this thing looks different enough, I'm surprised DICE hasn't tried to put it in a Battlefield game yet.
It would be hilarious if the flying brass functioned as a secondary projectile in the game.
@@cymond *Fires*
*You have been kicked from the server due to friendly fire.*
As always thank you Ian! I would be interested to see a episode solely on the Blish system, or other completely wrong concepts that still produced working firearms.
I love the way Ian says "Auto".
I never quite understood why they didnt realize that this angled surface was doing them a favor and went with an S-curve instead, for extra delay.
Because it would be delayed all the way until the S got straight again and then it would be the same crap just worse
The problem with the blish system is actually exacerbated by the choice of brass for the locking block. Differing grain structure in the metals will lower friction. Watches and clocks have steel pinions and brass wheels to lower friction.
personally when i first heard the concept, i'm wowed by it. it is after i understood the working mechanism, then i felt, this is too complicated even for today's standards. thank you ian for letting us know about a gun like this.
This isn't complicated it just sucks
It's a beautiful gun. Say what you will about Thompson's understanding of physics, he knows how to design beautiful tools.
Two concepts you dread to hear in the same sentence: delayed blowback, and 30-06
Oh the things that could go wrong.
2:30 Were the welded extra pieces on the sides of the magazine there to make room for the cartridge oiling sponges?
I'm genuinely impressed by all the work that poor Blish did for nothing 🥺
That wide open slot in the rear of the receiver would likely have been wonderful in the sea water and sand on the beaches of Normandy. /sarcasm
This looks like it would also be a nightmare to try and mass produce.
TBF have you seen the InrangeTV tests on the m1 and m14? They don't fare too well, they're a completely open action too.
I was thinking the same...
Not nightmare to mass produce, just nightmare to pay :)
Considering the rifles used in the Normandy invasion were sealed in plastic bags, I don't think it would have been a big issue.
@@ForgottenWeapons Dammit! Beat me to it. They show this aspect off a bit in Saving Private Ryan.
Hi Ian,
thanks for keeping on doing interesting videos.
The thing is, I believe, that if the locking lugs are part of interrupted thread (the locking surfaces are not perpendicular to the bore axis but rather angled), the force bearing surfaces can be any of them or the handle. As soon as the locking lugs disconnect from the receiver recesses the only force bearing surface is of course the handle, but before then, it can be any combination of those surfaces and handle, depending on tolerances, wear and deformation under stress.
Seem that the handle could easily snap of if you're right.
Thanks once more,
Martin
If you think about it, any change in cartridge load completely defeats the delayed blowback or it doesn't work at all.
Dissimilar metals rubbing against each other would lead to galling, which might be ok for a large naval gun that fires relatively few rounds, but would be unacceptable for a service rifle. It would be a nightmare to monitor: your first indication of excessive wear would be an injured soldier!
The operation of this rifle action is terrifying.
I love this channel because I either discover new guns from it, or if i find one elsewhere i can usually come here for some more information on it.
I think my favorite part of this rifle is the fact that you have to have the weapon de-cocked in order to engage the safety/dust-cover, which basically means you either have to have the weapon unloaded completely or have the chamber empty to engage it, a completely impractical redundancy for a military infantry rifle. Either this was a complete oversight or Thompson, Colt, and the entire design team behind this gun; or those same people must have all been huge fans of the Reichsrevolver...
Insert mud here . . .
Lakewood Ed lol I was immediately thinking the same thing.
Yep!
That was my thought too.
*camera starts to pan length of rifle*
Me: Oh wow, that's actually really nice looking. Amazing condition given the-
*camera pans across a gigantic open slot in the rear of the receiver*
Me: Oh no...
I need to crack some nuts.
^ Semi-autos don't really overheat my man :D That's just the worst design possible and this open area doesn't seem to have any purpose other than cause malfunctions :D
At first glance you think thats a nice looking rifle....then u see all the places crud could get in...and all the other issues ian pointed out
I watched the old video yesterday, what a coincidence that this was uploaded today...
I thought I was having a severe case of deja vu, till I got to the end and saw the link to the other video you've done a little over 2 years ago on this same model of rifle. I think I watched that one sometime recently because it seemed like you said a lot of the same things in this one, especially about the unusual safe and fire position indicators.
Excellent channel! very impressed with your attention to detail and knowledge.. Thank you.
Could you not lock the bolt in its rear position for disassembly and remove the rear section of the reciever with the bolt and spring captive ?
That.... sounds like it could work
Safely removing the the bolt from the rear receiver section would be... interesting... if you did it that way
That would put the main spring under full pressure. That receiver would come flying off with dangerous force!
Just like a G43.Yes,I believe it's completely possible
You sure can, just don't bump it it out of the hold open notch while you are pulling it apart.
This looks like the work of a ridiculously talented machinist with a concussion
Thomson: By US Army I will miss you.
Also Thomson: Hey US Army, want to buy my guns?
Even the unsuccessful guns are interesting. Thanks Ian!
I could see the Blish idea working at pressures not achievable in a gun, like say enough pressure to just start pushing the materials together at the molecular level thus locking them together until the pressure is lessened and they can un-link again.
Sounds like Blish was trying a Machivallian way around existing patents.
@ Too bad refrigeration is basically public domain now.
You mean that they DON'T work that way? AHHHH! Wait til I show you my room temprature Fusion device.
"Delayed blowback .30-06." For when you want to be able to shoot both the bullet and the casing.
Let me get this straight...... You have to fire the action before you can engage the safety?
86 abaile this is actually not that uncommon. Especially in firearms where the safety is a simple interrupter. It’s like that so you can’t put the safety on while there is a round chambered, to prevent drop firing and such.
In which case its more a case of 'safe prove theres nothing in the chamber' rather than a gun locked and loaded
If it would be more obvious to see it would be useful for training ranges so the instructor can easily see that all guns are safe before someone moves around the line of fire for whatever reason, say standing infront of the recruits to tell them something or whatever
The gun has to be uncocked, not really fired. Just like a Glock: drop mag, clear action, pull trigger.
It's not dangerous or uncommon.
@@riverstyxarmory9782 It's weird, though. There's no way to put the safety ON while the gun is ready to fire. You can only engage the safety on an empty chamber, which is the least important time to needed a safety.
So the firing procedure would have to be: awkwardly rotate safety off, and then chamber a round. That's not exactly quick.
Did I just see correctly? In order to set the safety (8:25), you had to pull the trigger? Who was holding Thompson's beer for that one? Seriously, what is the thinking behind that?
There really are some absolutely crazy, unique, awesome, innovative America guns designed between 1900 and 1960's. It was like a boom of creativity in the gun industry, and it gave us some of the best, longest lasting guns on the planet. The famous Mauser action... basically every bolt action made to this day is based off it. The Browning M2, the 1911, the AR-10/AR-15 just to name a few.
Perfect for shooting infantry and aircraft at the same time!
That rifle would look nice up on my collection wall!
Thompson is the gun designer equivalent of "your work is completely wrong, but you somehow still got the right answer??"
I saw this on the auction and I was REALLY hoping that you would make a video on it
"Fortunately for the US military..."
Dis gun b gud
any "battle"rifle that has the magazine 500 km from the trigger should be burned on principle
Bad, but it's pretty tho, I'd love to see it with the longer (20?) round mag.
ED-SKaR imagine this with a BAR magazine. That is what it would look like.
@@jackandersen1262 It should take BAR mags, right?
Michal Soukup no. It uses modified BAR mags.
It uses pure WAAAAAAAGH energy to shoot
Even though it was a failure, still a pretty rifle
This needed a secont cam path with a corresponding lug, both cam paths becoming fully transversal at the "locked" end, and a gas tube leading up to the bolt handle blowing gas upward. Direct impingement as it is :D
WOW! That is a REALLY long action. That magazine/chamber is SO far forward of the grip and trigger...
I could finally find the Thompson rifle in its physical form.
What a complicated and impractical system... Looks like Thompson never looked a the competition for practical reasons ;-)
That is a very interesting rifle and it would make a nice heirloom or exhibit in a museum.
11:54 Would putting the bolt handle into the catch at the end be an easy way to do it.
Can confirm; delayed blowback 308s sling brass like a slingshot.
My ptr91(wannabe G3) throws brass well over 30 feet. Never had a failed to eject though!
With careful positioning, this rifle can kill two targets at once: one with the bullet and one with the spent case.
The ejection port should be stamped “face toward enemy”
You have to pull the trigger to engage the safety. That's... That's real smart.
So, the most terrifying action ever..
This looks astronomically dangerous.
*looks at thumbnail* What in gods name is that?!
A space station?
The Red Baron a Vetterli with a case of fetal alcohol syndrome
A forgotten weapon
Why are you staring at your thumbnail? You should be watching the video.
Delayed blowback .30-06 from 1923. What could go wrong?
Thompson's home in Newport is now a reception hall.
I LITERALLY just finished reading about this when I was looking up Blishlock
The angled bolt lugs are actually really similar to the radial delayed blowback that CCMG uses on pistol caliber AR's
that explains that one rifle in Borderlands imagine being told to beware of Slicing ammo casings
Wondering why Thompson didn’t try to design is to use the BAR’s 20 round magazine
I’ve had the same thought regarding the Garand
David Sachs the military wanted en bloc clips for an infantry rifle, not box magazines.
The BAR magazine didn't play nice with designs that had faster loading mechanisms
It used a BAR mag... he mentioned that in the video. This one just has a cut down BAR mag with two pieces welded on.
Meanwhile, somewhere in the RIA warehouse is The Chieftain doing his thing with armored vehicles.
I wonder if they will meet, fingers crossed for a crossover
JonManProductions I keep hoping Ian Will casually walk past in the background while chieftain does his thing
an excellent precis as always Ian. glad you guys had the garrand and the Springfield in WWII. we had the excellent variants of the SMLE 303. both still outstanding hunting rifles.
Might this particular example have been made from parts kits, hence the mismatched mag well and barrel?
Or it could be that it was a trials gun that ended up being a amalgamation of two guns that went down
la I just assumed someone (quite reasonably) felt a rifle that shared the detachable magazines with the LMG would be a good idea
rock climbers know this as a friction hold
Dear God that's terrifying. I want one.
I noticed the brass in there right away, remembering from the Thompson video.