What I could never understand Newcastle (Gateway to The Mournes) had two lines serving it The BCDR and The GNR in their wisdom they closed both lines instead of keeping one open preferably the BCDR for traffic heading towards Belfast serving Dundrum,Downpatrick,Crossgar,Saintfield (Ballyhinch via Ballyhinch junction) Ballygowan and Comber with stops from Dundonald. The morning traffic from Newcastle and Downpatrick from 7.30am is absolutely horrendous similarly similar in the evenings at 5pm.
This will be perfect for a heavy rail rapid transit system in Belfast. I also recommend double tracking pets of the line and rebuilding some of the old stations on the Bleach Green line as well as Templepatrick and perhaps also converting the Bangor and Larne lines into rapid transit routes too, even if they aren’t part of the circle. How do these sound?
Who knows if they can rebuild that route. I’m thinking the two branches to Cookstown from Dungannon and Magherafelt might make a good place for a heritage railway. Whenever the Derry Road is rebuilt, there could also be a loop around Northern Ireland.
For the International Airport, do you think keeping it simple and just having a halt located where the line crosses the British Road would do rather than a spur line straight to the terminal? I think one of the worries is about the number of passengers using the airport doesn't justify having a dedicated train connection. At least having a halt with maybe a bus link to the terminal building it could prove to Translink that a spur line would work. Its an absolute shame that our rain network runs past 3 main airports without a dedicated service to any of the terminal buildings. Translink has always favoured bus services to these facilities and only Larne can boast having a joined up station serving the rail network and the ferry service.
I agree that that's probably what we'd get. "Would do" is the only standard that so many of our public transport projects need to meet. Look at Sydenham station and the city airport. It's up to the passengers to struggle across that windy bridge with their luggage if they want to get a train after they land
There is no signalling at all remaining on the Lisburn to Antrim line, all engineering train and driver training movements are done under possession, i.e. 20mph max with no signalling. To reinstate signalling would cost upwards of £100M at today's prices. Permanent way was refreshed in 2014 to keep it safe for low speed running but a full relay will be needed before opening to regular traffic. Also, loads of user worked crossings need closed to avoid punitive speed restrictions. The reopening of Lisburn to Antrim is being actively studied at the moment but don't expect a quick, cheap or easy solution.
@@LoyalisterMcUlster DfI will find out whether it makes sense to build it or not and I highly doubt it the potential ridership between Lisburn and Antrim would justify such an investment. Even the BFI link doesn't really make sense - I already said why - the train stop would be too far away from the terminal. Sydenham is much closer to BHD and people still rarely use it.
From a cynical point of view, it seems a very good idea, which means it won't happen! Should I be wrong about that, I would be inclined to think about Ireland as a whole. At present, IE DART services use 1500Vdc electrification. If the Dublin-Belfast line is electrified, as has been suggested, would it be at 1500Vdc or 25kVac? Whatever system is chosen, then that would affect a decision on the electrification of the loop line. Having the same stock as DART may make fleet acquisition cheaper per unit. Discontinuous electrification is another possibility, as on the South Wales Metro under construction, but that has not yet been proved under service conditions. Using existing diesel trains would enable the loop to be started, and hopefully prove popular enough to upgrade to electric. Everything hinges on the business case, plus (being part of the UK) the inevitable inquiries, consultancy reports, political interference, NIMBYs, general dithering, and bad management until the costs mount up to the unaffordable (Like HS2 in Britain).
Unfortuanetly Circle Line is virtually impossible now, because of the track layout at BGC it makes it impossible for trains coming from Lisburn to change tracks and head towards Derry now
If people could bite the bullet and use the existing lines perhaps it would encourage the powers that be to look positively on reopening existing lines and maybe, just maybe think about introducing more. Money talks, ask any lobbyist.
@@wjf0ne there's a bit of a mexican stand off/ chicken and egg thing going on with public transport here. Customers say they don't use the services because they're infrequent and expensive, and Translink will say that's the case because nobody uses them
Considering Translink have now with the opening of BGC taken a step back by abandoning the through route from Portadown to Bangor (and by design making it imposible to bring back without significant cost) I doubt we can see them using anything resembling common sense on this project.
@@trainscranesandtrivialtale7262 exactly! Who in their right mind thought that was an improvement?! Especially with the frequency of onward services and the likelihood of missing a connection, SOO frustrating!
IT'S A NO-BRAINER - Belfast International should and MUST be rail connected like most International airports in Europe. The private car is destined to decline over the coming years, so come on TransLink, get your act together and build that spur to the airport, even before completing a Belfast Circle.
It is simply untrue to claim at the end that "the vast majority of people in NI live in the Greater Belfast area". They do not. Only one-third of NI's population does. Yet the area continues to get the overwhelming majority of investment in infrastructure (& pretty much everything else too). Also - Yorkgate Station ended up costing £20m - not £17m, as stated. The Circle Line is a great idea - but realistically should be pretty far down the list of transport priorities for NI. The western half of NI is in large part a wasteland for infrastructure and public transport. So that should be addressed first as a greater priority, rather than pour even more vast and scarce sums into gold-plating everything for Belfast. Over a-third-of-a-billion pounds has just been spent on just one transport station in a city of 345,000 people, which already has TEN other rail stations in the city as well. Belfast is good for now - time to start letting everywhere else catch up for a while instead.
a) circular lines don't work as the backbone of transit as they extend journey times, b) we can't have a true circular line - trains would have to change direction at least twice (Antrim, Sydenham) which costs time - again, that's how you make public transport unattractive, c) you can't build a train stop at the terminal in Aldergrove. The track is more than 1 km away behind the car park, some warehouses and fields. d) the Abbeycentre stop made me laugh really hard. Who is it for? People that peddle that idea are attention seekers and completely clueless. One of them got destroyed on /belfast on reddit a few weeks ago. Pressed on journey times, feasibility access to infrastructure all they could do was resorting to the good old "it's going to be cheaper than the York St junction".
What I could never understand Newcastle (Gateway to The Mournes) had two lines serving it The BCDR and The GNR in their wisdom they closed both lines instead of keeping one open preferably the BCDR for traffic heading towards Belfast serving Dundrum,Downpatrick,Crossgar,Saintfield (Ballyhinch via Ballyhinch junction) Ballygowan and Comber with stops from Dundonald. The morning traffic from Newcastle and Downpatrick from 7.30am is absolutely horrendous similarly similar in the evenings at 5pm.
Great Video
There are some big towns in Northern Ireland are missing railway, but as a Swede can I agree that this line is an excellent first step
What Northern Ireland needs massively is rail networks to most of the smaller regions in N.I, It’d discourage driving, and would be far faster
thanks for another great video Richard. i was the overexcited fan who met you on Friday in Ulster Sports Club. great to have met you.
@@jonnymalseed744 You encouraged me to get this one finished! Was great to meet you too
Welcome back.
Many thanks. Great video.
Great video, it just makes sense
This is a very good video
This will be perfect for a heavy rail rapid transit system in Belfast. I also recommend double tracking pets of the line and rebuilding some of the old stations on the Bleach Green line as well as Templepatrick and perhaps also converting the Bangor and Larne lines into rapid transit routes too, even if they aren’t part of the circle. How do these sound?
What we also need is trains to the west once again, and the AIRR should fix it
Hopefully so - ridiculous that it was ever stopped. Shame the plans don't include Fermanagh
There's another possible loop .... via Dungannon, Coalisland, Cookstown and Antrim.
@@TheHoveHeretic there are so many possibilities...but as I said Belfast will get the nod before anything else
Who knows if they can rebuild that route. I’m thinking the two branches to Cookstown from Dungannon and Magherafelt might make a good place for a heritage railway. Whenever the Derry Road is rebuilt, there could also be a loop around Northern Ireland.
For the International Airport, do you think keeping it simple and just having a halt located where the line crosses the British Road would do rather than a spur line straight to the terminal?
I think one of the worries is about the number of passengers using the airport doesn't justify having a dedicated train connection. At least having a halt with maybe a bus link to the terminal building it could prove to Translink that a spur line would work.
Its an absolute shame that our rain network runs past 3 main airports without a dedicated service to any of the terminal buildings. Translink has always favoured bus services to these facilities and only Larne can boast having a joined up station serving the rail network and the ferry service.
I agree that that's probably what we'd get. "Would do" is the only standard that so many of our public transport projects need to meet. Look at Sydenham station and the city airport. It's up to the passengers to struggle across that windy bridge with their luggage if they want to get a train after they land
There is no signalling at all remaining on the Lisburn to Antrim line, all engineering train and driver training movements are done under possession, i.e. 20mph max with no signalling. To reinstate signalling would cost upwards of £100M at today's prices.
Permanent way was refreshed in 2014 to keep it safe for low speed running but a full relay will be needed before opening to regular traffic. Also, loads of user worked crossings need closed to avoid punitive speed restrictions.
The reopening of Lisburn to Antrim is being actively studied at the moment but don't expect a quick, cheap or easy solution.
@@bashingmetal fascinating - thanks for that insight
great 100m is a price i can deal with
@@LoyalisterMcUlster That's just the signalling.....for regular traffic the line would have to be rebuilt.
@@cehaem2 it still really makes sense though it should be the next transport project in NI instead of the money hole of the A5.
@@LoyalisterMcUlster DfI will find out whether it makes sense to build it or not and I highly doubt it the potential ridership between Lisburn and Antrim would justify such an investment. Even the BFI link doesn't really make sense - I already said why - the train stop would be too far away from the terminal. Sydenham is much closer to BHD and people still rarely use it.
No drop near the entrance, was this a smart design
From a cynical point of view, it seems a very good idea, which means it won't happen!
Should I be wrong about that, I would be inclined to think about Ireland as a whole.
At present, IE DART services use 1500Vdc electrification. If the Dublin-Belfast line is electrified, as has been suggested, would it be at 1500Vdc or 25kVac? Whatever system is chosen, then that would affect a decision on the electrification of the loop line. Having the same stock as DART may make fleet acquisition cheaper per unit.
Discontinuous electrification is another possibility, as on the South Wales Metro under construction, but that has not yet been proved under service conditions. Using existing diesel trains would enable the loop to be started, and hopefully prove popular enough to upgrade to electric.
Everything hinges on the business case, plus (being part of the UK) the inevitable inquiries, consultancy reports, political interference, NIMBYs, general dithering, and bad management until the costs mount up to the unaffordable (Like HS2 in Britain).
Unfortuanetly Circle Line is virtually impossible now, because of the track layout at BGC it makes it impossible for trains coming from Lisburn to change tracks and head towards Derry now
Isn’t the Ulster Junction still a Y junction?
We need a track to Comber. The roads can't cope with all the traffic from the new housing developments.
@@smac6880 couldn't agree with you more. I seem to recall there's an old railway line right beside Millmount village...
Not sure if that will be easy.
@@joshuaW5621 A tram like they have in Dublin perhaps.
If people could bite the bullet and use the existing lines perhaps it would encourage the powers that be to look positively on reopening existing lines and maybe, just maybe think about introducing more. Money talks, ask any lobbyist.
@@wjf0ne there's a bit of a mexican stand off/ chicken and egg thing going on with public transport here. Customers say they don't use the services because they're infrequent and expensive, and Translink will say that's the case because nobody uses them
@@trainscranesandtrivialtale7262 Well, Translink has simply no money to offer additional services.
Considering Translink have now with the opening of BGC taken a step back by abandoning the through route from Portadown to Bangor (and by design making it imposible to bring back without significant cost) I doubt we can see them using anything resembling common sense on this project.
@@bbjunkie I didn't realise that had happened until I read about it last night. Everyone now has to change at GC
@@trainscranesandtrivialtale7262 exactly! Who in their right mind thought that was an improvement?! Especially with the frequency of onward services and the likelihood of missing a connection, SOO frustrating!
project Ukraine is dead, definately
IT'S A NO-BRAINER - Belfast International should and MUST be rail connected like most International airports in Europe. The private car is destined to decline over the coming years, so come on TransLink, get your act together and build that spur to the airport, even before completing a Belfast Circle.
It is simply untrue to claim at the end that "the vast majority of people in NI live in the Greater Belfast area". They do not. Only one-third of NI's population does. Yet the area continues to get the overwhelming majority of investment in infrastructure (& pretty much everything else too). Also - Yorkgate Station ended up costing £20m - not £17m, as stated. The Circle Line is a great idea - but realistically should be pretty far down the list of transport priorities for NI. The western half of NI is in large part a wasteland for infrastructure and public transport. So that should be addressed first as a greater priority, rather than pour even more vast and scarce sums into gold-plating everything for Belfast. Over a-third-of-a-billion pounds has just been spent on just one transport station in a city of 345,000 people, which already has TEN other rail stations in the city as well. Belfast is good for now - time to start letting everywhere else catch up for a while instead.
Might I suggest you ask the Mexicans to fund this?
a) circular lines don't work as the backbone of transit as they extend journey times, b) we can't have a true circular line - trains would have to change direction at least twice (Antrim, Sydenham) which costs time - again, that's how you make public transport unattractive, c) you can't build a train stop at the terminal in Aldergrove. The track is more than 1 km away behind the car park, some warehouses and fields. d) the Abbeycentre stop made me laugh really hard. Who is it for?
People that peddle that idea are attention seekers and completely clueless. One of them got destroyed on /belfast on reddit a few weeks ago. Pressed on journey times, feasibility access to infrastructure all they could do was resorting to the good old "it's going to be cheaper than the York St junction".
Utopian B.S. The brits cannot afford to give you the handouts to build any of this.