Do NOT buy these PRO V1 golf balls (shocking)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Do NOT buy these PRO V1 golf balls (shocking)
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Hi I’m Rick Shiels, welcome to my channel RickShielsPGAGolf. This TH-cam channel is designed to help you play better golf, also to help you enjoy your golf more!
I specialise in golf club reviews, golf club unboxing, golf club news, golf club head to heads, and all about golf clubs.
I also want to make you play better golf by providing coaching video on all topics about golf, how to fix your slice, fix your hook, help you drive the golf ball longer, hit your irons more pure, hit your irons closer to the hole and help you draw and fade your golf shots.
I will also help you lower your score by chipping better by stopping you duff and thin chips, pitch the ball closer and also create backspin. Also I will provide you help to putt better and hole more putts!
On this channel I also make fun and entertaining golf content based on crazy and sometimes “gimmicky” golf clubs. I like to cut through the marketing hype about products and I like to give you the honest truth about golf equipment.
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Q.) What golf ball do you use and why?
Whatever I can buy used for cheap, or whatever I can find!
Any that are $1 each. I lose too many to play Pro V1s🤷🏻♂️
Been using Callaway , Nike and Taylormade for years. Soft and Pro golf-balls.
I try to use a prov1 but so exspensive!
Maxfli Tour CG. It’s a good all around ball without the big $$$. ProV’s are just to over rated
Hi Rick, I think it would be interesting if you left 5 balls in a bucket of water, 5 balls buried underground, and 5 balls just left outside in the elements. All for a few months and then compare them all to brand new Pro V1s.
Make your own video on it.. I’d watch
@@chiefkeith5641 yeah but most would not, better to leave the important reviews to big channels
He doesn’t appear to produce videos so you’re asking him to do something he probably doesn’t have the resources to do and would not make any money on it
Can you do a video showing scuffed/damaged golf balls to see how much worse they perform versus fresh out the box balls? You always say you'd stop using a ball if it has too much scuffing, but I'd like to see if there's anything to that beyond psychology
I always felt if it has a blemish at the speeds it spins it has to have an effect.
it’s very hard to test something like that, just because of how small the difference would be. it might be 5 yards and like 5 feet less spin but it doesn’t make a HUGE difference unless you’re a pro
MyGolfSpy did a video on this I believe or at the very least did an article on this
Check out MyGolfSpy, they did some testing including scuffed balls and the performance was awful.
I stop using a ball when it gets a)
In a lake
Or b) in the woods
It would be interesting to cut them open after testing them and see what the differences were between the ones that felt similar and the ones that felt worse.
^THIS! - I was hoping he would try to identify the balls he felt were close to the new Pro V one performance, then cut them all open and see if age corresponded with the performance.
I second this, I think your hearing and feeling the difference in generations of the PROV1's.
I was thinking the same thing - If I did this I would first play with each of the balls and make a note as to how close they seemed to be to a new pro v1. After rating each ball and weighing each one then cut them in half and see if the worst ones were just really old.
I imagine it has to do with how long they sat at the bottom of a pond. More than a few weeks and it would be noticeable
I'm also wondering if the refurbished balls are a mix of ProV1's and ProV1 X's.
Also, throughout the 20+ years of the ProV1 evolving, weren't there years where the "X" was the firmer feeling ball and other years where it was the softer, spinnier ball?
Adding to this video Rick i think it would be good to do a video of what you would recommend as the best ball for a few different pricepoints
The best ball for a golfer is not about the price. People like Rick Shills should know this, rather than constantly proclaiming the prov 1 to be the best ball around.
This rating from Rick means a lot because he's a guy who always tries to find the positive.
Great review. I would add that most golfers only need a mid range ball anyway.
Great video Rick, MyGolfSpy came to a similar conclusion, if you're on a budget, just get Kirkland Signatures.
Or just get them anyway. Been gaming much better this year with the Kirkland balls. But that might just be consistency in balls.
That's a great website with tons of useful information about everything golf related
If you're on a budget just get some decent recycled balls. Once you've hit a new ball once it's a used ball anyway...
@@alanpartridge1385 Aren't the balls featured in this video supposed to be "decent recycled balls" ?
RIP Nike soft feel 😔
Watching this video is such a treat because it feels like we do not get as many of these types of videos these days; I imagine this feeling is what Guy gets when you let him drink a Monster from the can on the podcast.
Inesis 100. £7.99/dozen. More than adequate for 95% of club golfers.
I would love to see you do this with a used driver vs a brand new driver that is the same. Not comparing the new model vs old model
I never buy new Pro V I's. I get all mine from the tree lines and or weeds along fairways and shallow ponds. If i don't find at least a half dozen when I golf, I wasn't trying.
I use the srixon soft feel balls. They're 20 a box and they feel quite nice off the face, also not that bothered losing one on the course. They do exactly what I need at a great price
My ball of choice too for exactly those reasons.
They're good. I don't mind the srixon marathons either. I'd much rather play a new, inexpensive ball than a used, expensive one.
The Pro-v1's from say, 2007, that came in those boxes, are going to feel much firmer than the newer iterations. They got softer over time. Also being that old you can expect them to be noticeably shorter off driver.
Just finished the review & yep my suspicions were correct; avoid them
yes he didn’t take into account that the older balls might be a bit harder and heavier
@@andrewstehura541 But that's the problem of buying the reclaimed ones. You don't know if they are 1 year old model or 15 years old. Being 10 yards short because you've got an old heavy ball you weren't expecting is the difference between being on the dance floor or in a greenside bunker. You can't trust the distance of any ball in the box to be consistent with the rest.
Would imagine the plastic to deteriorate after being in a lake for so long too
That is a false assumption. Urethane is inert in H2O, regardless of duration of exposure. It's fairly obvious that this manufacturer has a flawed quality control process. Some of those balls would immediately turn off any consumer and leave a bad taste in their mouth. Who would go back and buy another dozen of these balls with their appearance? Every new ball manufacturer changes their ball model print logo in order to track the versions that they have created. With each logo change, there has been a change to the makeup of the ball. Most refinishers are sorting the model years of the various balls and are printing the proper logo for that model so as not to confuse the end user. There are at least 9 different Pro V models, so there have been many changes during it's lifetime. For the presenter to not make this distinction in performance is disingenuous to his audience.@@adamjwhite50
Would be interested to see if the ones you didn’t like weighed more or were significantly different at least.
I was thinking the same thing. The extra layer of paint has to have added some weight.
My swing is so bad, the balls are the least of my worries. They make no difference to a bad swing and I never have a ball long before I end up losing it. Buying genuine Pro V1’s wouldn’t be economical for me and I wouldn’t be able to use them to their potential.
I’ve never had a bad experience with refinished pro v1 balls
They did not come from this company though
I've been using Nitro balls. I've been golfing less than a year and I don't want to keep losing $3+ balls. You can get 45 Nitro's for about $25. They don't have great performance but I don't care if I lose them
I almost strictly use, used golf balls. Not refurbished, but used in Mint condition. The price is right, and I can promise you, my miss hits have nothing to do with the ball and everything to do with me.
I used Callaway chrome soft because I love how soft it feels around the greens.
I’m still using balls I find on my two courses in my community!
@@richardjacobs7632 Same, I'm living off all the other golfers who buy ProV1s and TP5s etc and still hit them off the planet.
The negative reviews have now been DELETED! Shame on American Golf! Compare the current review page to the one in Rick’s video. ALL the AVERAGE and POOR ratings are gone. There’s now only 15 reviews in total compared to 41 in the video. A quick calculation shows they’ve also delete 11 of the 14 BAD reviews, leaving only 3 now. I wouldn’t buy refurb balls anyway, but this is enough for me to avoid American Golf ENTIRELY. Thanks for a great video Rick, and for inadvertently exposing this company’s dishonesty.
I’m going to say it’s the age of the cover or the environment it was in before refinished. I would assume the cover is getting harder and more brittle like old plastic components do, and that’s why it’s getting harder and clickier sounding. Cutting them opening and identifying the year it was made versus how it felt might help with data.
Genius comment, I'd say it's exactly this. Who knows how long these were down the bottom of a lake or in a puddle mud.
Yup. Pointless video, without this info.
Why does anyone look for a budget ball when Kirkland sells 99% of a pro v1 for a dollar?
There are a lot of indipendent companies that sell second had balls. I have bought a lot from ayershire golf balls, not from big companies like american golf. It would be interesting to compare different companies and how they prepare second chance balls similar to what you did here
Another interesting video and results
I just bought 20 mint grade Kirkland performance + from ayershire and every ball is like brand new
I've purchased second hand balls from a company that does a good job organizing them by year and type. You can get a box of 50 balls from the previous year, but for good quality ones you don't save much money over buying them new. I've tried used, "mint condition" TP5 and Pro V1 and they seemed to perform okay, but I found I had to toss them every few holes because I kept ripping the covers. That actually made me hesitant to try new TP5s, but I've since bought a few new boxes of TP5s and haven't had that issue.
Canadian here! Please help. I saw refinished titlists at Canadian Tire recently and was wondering if they're real or if they feel nice... I had my doubts. If anyone's tried, please let me know! Thank you 😊
The reviews for them are bad so I imagine it's the same. Balls that have been in the water are terrible, just as Rick showed.
Really found this insightful. A lot of pro vs that I find. Perform very similarly to new ones. The ones that I buy that have been refurbished don’t. Glad you have done a proper test to show this. I’ll keep buying calaway supersoft and finding pro vs
The ones you find are more likely to be new models. Lake balls could be any age. It's not that complicated.
Comment section help me out! I've been getting into golf this year, but don't have a ton of money. I know golf balls vary in performance based on ball speed, spin etc.
What would be a good mid range price ball for me to buy knowing these stats I got at PGA store the other day (with driver):
Ball Speed: 165mph
Backspin: 2101 RPM
Carry: 311 yards
Total distance: 335 yards
I tend to hit a fade. My wedge shots usually sit right where they land, don't spin backwards like 6 feet or anything.
Any tips or recommendations would be appreciated.
Hey Rick thanks for doing this test it has confirmed what I have thought for many years. Nice to see you back testing some equipment… How about a few more reviews and comparisons for an honest review on the new Titleist TSR line versus done if the big boys on the market in 2022? Always enjoy your golf club reviews!
You usually get what you pay for. Just buy new Pro V1s and you won't have these problems.
It would be interesting to see what weight difference between the two would be
About tree fiddy
Change name to No V1's and problem solved..... Great Review Rick! keep em coming!
Its not as much about the paint but more about the age of the ball. The components change over time as well as manufacture tweaks.
The problem is where did they find them?? How long was it in the water, the woods. You can take a compressed ball, used up, and paint them. The paint?? Sure but…where was the ball when found??
Rick should do an Andertons style blind test with the refinished and new ones mixed in and see if he can identify them.
Helped pick up balls at a driving range. Came across a ball that had its cover split... said pro v1 on the outside inside the outer cover was a slazenger golf ball 😬😬
I bought a box of grade A refurbished Pro V 1's and some of them did feel fine or as good as the normal one's, but I also had more than one split in half on me off the tee. At least they were cheap.
Chemically urethane will get harder overtime, this would most definitely make the ball feel harder. The paint will add weight, along with effect the dimple pattern for airflow over the ball effecting the aerodynamics. And changing the performance.
If you just look around when you are playing you will find Pro-v1s all over the place. My son and I were scrounging around in the long grass on the cliffs between the fairway and ocean at Pebble beach and found many. No cost and really fun.
Tbh if you play at pebble beach you can afford brand new prov1's
@@ihgufyrtdedftghuijkh I did not say I played it. I was enjoying the beautiful beach just below the course. Would love to play it but could never justify the cost.
IMHO it is stupid to buy refinished balls. You have no idea where they came from, like you say, whether they spent a year at the bottom of a lake or were stuck in the ground through a winter. If price is a factor, the player would be much better off buying a less expensive new ball, including ones offered by Titleist. Repainting has to affect the aerodynamics of a ball. Proof of that is that the makers spend millions in researching the effect of tiny, tiny changes in dimple size, depth and number, so slapping a coat of paint on top of a weathered original coat has to have an adverse effect.
Love the channel always look forward to it
I will stick with Kirkland 2.0 Golf Balls. Consistent and great feel. Maybe 5% less distant than PRO V1 but at $1.00 a ball it great value
Having only hit 'previously-forested' Pro V1's, I need Rick to explain the difference between old and new.
De forested?
You need to do a double blind test.. without *knowing* what you are hitting - and the person handling the ball for you not knowing either - and a third person having marked them and handling the tally - THEN you'd have a proper test ! You are going to be biased if you know what it is you are testing (it's not voluntary - not your fault - it's how the brain works). It is important that you do NOT know and the person handling the ball neither knows what you are testing - only an independent third person should have the marking to new/refurbished data (before the test, after the test of course, it doesn't matter anymore).
The persons handling the golf balls should not be a golfer either.. You should just indicate how you want the ball placed so that you cannot examine it before trying it..
Rick, I challenge you to do some BLIND testing videos of comparable products. Would help to separate the intrinsic physical differences from the psychologically induced differences and could be damned good fun to watch, too🙏 I dare you!!😂
"Welcome to the blind test. I've painted these balls to make sure I can't tell what brands they are..."
Just purchased 50 second hand pro v1’s in attempts to avoid a big dent to the bank account. Looks like that may not have been the best option!
I love Kirkland golf balls 24 for 28$ and they are the best feeling ones I’ve used,and I’ve tried Pro V1 and Callaway’s
I am 1:35 in...I've tried these refurbs, and they feel like rocks. Can't pull a ball that's been sitting at the bottom of a pond for 2 years, repaint it and call it good.
I closed the video as soon as he said these are refurbished.
That is the purpose of the whole video
Prov1/x are so expensive people buy them refurbished to save money. This is a good review so people will buy a new ball of a different brand saving money and getting a better ball. This is a good review
Really simple, just buy Kirkland’s. £1 a ball and as good as any normal player needs in my opinion
If you're looking for low price balls from major manufacturers, look for Used balls, never refurbished/refinished. They can have some minor scuffs, based on quality rating (Mint, Near Mint, AAA, etc.) but they will have the original covers - they are only cleaned and re-sold. It would be interesting to see a comparison of New, Used (Mint/Near Mint condition), and Refurbished.
I mainly use top flights because I hit them really well lmao , or Callaway ultra softs either the burnt orange or greenish/yellow color
I use the 2022 Kirkland. The cover is much better than the 2021 and it feels like a pro v1. Great ball, GREAT PRICE
I really wish you would’ve set aside. The ones that felt plastic or clicky. And cut those ones open to see the difference. I wonder if they are different by year.
Great point - all Rick had to do was number the refurbished balls 1-12 with a red Sharpie. Then he could have simply written down that, say, balls 3, 4, 6, 8, 9 and 11 felt "clicky" when he was putting them, and just cut them all open after all the tests to see if the clicky ones all had a matching core.
Well done Rick. I prefer the Srixon zstar. It spins a little less off driver but bites a bit harder off the wedge with my swing. I don’t mind a harder feel while putting. They used to be a lot cheaper than pro v1, and are still $5 less online, but my local club is usually running a sale on them so still a “budget” ball for me.
Srixon usually runs a buy 2, get 1 free type of sale once or twice a year. Also, lots of places sell the previous year model for around $25/dz. I really love the Z-star, especially the Divide version.
@@erickorff1919 that’s usually when I stock up. Not sure if my club screwed up on the pricing, I actually got two for one this spring.
You would like Bridgestones
So your saying refurbished golf balls don't perform as brand new ones? Very interesting insights?
My experience with refinished prov1s have been bad as well. They probably traveled 25-30 yards shorter off the tee
Rick … loved the review as always. Hope you still carry on doing more of them. One review that I’d love to see you do is golf gloves. I’ve played golf for 40 years mostly as a low single figure golfer. The best glove by a mile is the Costco Kirkland signature glove … better than any glove I’ve ever worn.
I think you use those for the practice range or a field near your home for practicing a full swing. They aren’t for play at all.
I've found refurbished balls before (I think they were from Challenge Golf as the "refurbished" mark has the same font as those.) and they seemed fine in looks, feel and performance. Though I'm no pro so what do I know? lol! But I dunno what they did to these to make them come out so bad. The paint job alone would give me pause because it has so many uneven bits. So maybe what they did was took some really beat up ones that are obvious "do not play" balls, stripped the cover off then gave a fresh coat to fill a bunch of the chewed up marks? Perhaps they just paint them really badly and they come out uneven, in which case I'd even rather play a unpainted one because it'll be balanced.
Maybe someone from The Golf Ball Company (American Golf slaps their name on these, but you can see it's TGBC on the other side) will chime in some day or somewhere. But I looked at the newest listings and even the pics they showed had that janky paint job. So given it has been over a year later, they may not be interested in improving the refurbishing process.
I am a high handicap golfer(I chase breaking 100 when I go out...usually in the mid 90's) and I tried a box of these and noticed the considerable difference as well. There's no compare to refurb prov and nib prov. With that said, I don't play them because I'd lose half the box anyway 😂
Did you measure the weight of the golf balls. Would be interesting to se weight diff compared to original prov1. Could account for the difference in flight.
Yay, finally a review video again. Always love these!😁👍🏻
I use to buy refurbs when I wasn’t very good! They never looked as bad as Ricks
Rick isn't good enough to judge these based on hitting a handful of drives.
100% correct
Then they better sell them without new paint. Just as they are found, and only clean them. Would still be a perfect ball for me then :)
What a NUMPTY!! 💥
(Podcast listeners get it)
Great test Rick. I'm actually surprised Titleist would allow their name to be put on those balls. The paint alone was atrocious. The inconsistency is way below Pro V standards.
Thank you Rick Shiels my bro now I no
I’ve found a couple refurbished balls before and I thought they were fake because of how hard they were but after this I feel they’re just old and weathered.. Also as you stated the cover is just horrible.. What ever they use is just not the same as what they use from the factory.. I’d much rather use a 25$ new box of balls (any brand) than these 25$ “refurbished” Pro V’s
This begs for an experiment instead of a review.
How do water logged golf balls perform vs balls left in the woods vs normal balls?
I know a lot of us probably buy balls out of the bucket at the club house or find balls on the course.
Would be cool to know how those conditions affect the ball flight and feel
Life is like a box of painted PVi's
Rick juggles the golf ball so effortlessly, it’s so enjoying!!! 😂😂😢
Been trying to do it for weeks now… Rick needs to do a short video of how to do it or how to flick the balls up off the green.(tips and tricks)
Might get onto the green like an Amateur, but I would like to leave a green like a pro 😂
how can a launch monitor like that know you have scratched balls, once it leaves the club it cannot know how it will fly
✍️📩☝️
I got some of these from Walmart and they all felt like normal prov1s and the durability wasn’t great but it was better than these and they paint work was as good as a normal prov1
But I think they were maybe actually from titliest because they were in a actual prov box
This is the type of product evaluation that brings real value to your listeners. Thank you very much!
Prize scam?
Saying hi Rick from Evansville, Indiana
Decent golfing weather for us in southern Indiana. Definitely need to take advantage of it.
These refinished balls look hideous under a UV light try it!!
*MyGolfSpy* says to avoid these 'refurbished' balls like the plague.
It blows my mind that big name stores sell these to costumers. It’s literally a sham and a shit ton of Joe-shmo golfers have no idea they’re being prayed upon
to be perfectly frank, I could use the best pro-V1, a used, scuffed Calloway or a basketball and I'd still be shit
I used to hit these balls often. I can attest that their problem is that you may have a range of ages in each box of balls. Older balls are going to have degraded/affected performance, and the consistency across the entire box is going to vary wildly.
If you’re a novice who just wants to play with ProV1s on a budget: can’t go wrong with $20/dz refurbs.
If you’re a more experienced player who wants the exact same feel and performance for every ball out of a box, spend the money on new.
Yeah my suggestion for even the novice is to buy another ball. They're going to be real confused when they lose ~10yards on their drive and then add ~15 with their next ball.
G'day Rick ...Absolutely love your videos , watch them all ...In recent times I've rejoined the golf community .. I played from the time I was 14 to 52 probably non stop .. Then I got fed up with the game and stopped playing and got heavily involved in lawn bowls .. At a bit over 60 I started hitting balls again and would you believe fell in love with the game again .
. Briefly got to 5 handicap at my best but mostly played between 7-10 range .. I'm left handed and still using 20 year old King irons and Nicklaus metals ..and a brand new 3 hybrid . I'm now off 13 and found my preferred brand of balls to be Srixon or Callaway .. Srixon mostly .. Never ever tried Titleist ProV balls . This was super interesting and informative. .
. If you're ever in Australia again try and get to Tasmania .. Not only do we have Barnbougle , Lost Farm , Cape Wickham and Ocean Dunes that get rave reviews but several other fun great courses and home to the oldest golf course in the world outside of Scotland ..It's Ratho Farm at Bothwell not too far from Hobart ...It was opened in 1822 by a Scottish immigrant Alexander Reid as is 200 years old this year . They have largely left it as it was and is still basically a sheep farm with an 18 hole golf course on it Now houses an Australian Golf Museum and has accommodation and functions facilities along with sheep .. Hope to meet you one day and please keep your wonderful vids coming . They're the best ..Sorry for the long comment .....Cheers ...
Is it possible that the feel differences you're feeling are simply the different iterations? Surely the 2020 ProV1 feels better than the 2007 ProV1? Your feel has evolved with the golf ball and when you go back and hit the old ones, they feel worse? Just a thought.
Better off with slazenger v400 soft balls. 48 for £23 currently. Great for winter golf. Would love to see you review these.
Would be so good if you got invited to titleist to see how they make/test on the balls with the research and development etc. That would be a sick video
Great video Rick .. my observation of the new vs used ball market is quite simple. If you appreciate the game and want to improve your skills then finding a new ball in your price point will improve your confidence and ultimately your score. Playing with refurbished balls of unknown history is just a recipe for failure. Bashed balls should be left where they're found.
Shocking results , would be interested to hear the companies feedback and QC system....
I think people considering buying refurb Pro V1's shouldn't be playing Pro V1's in the first place. There are a lot of options out there that would be better performing and around the same price point as the refurbs.
I'm pretty sure that 5A used Pro V1 would perform better than that! Good video Rick!
Thanks for getting back to testing products. You’re the best tester on TH-cam.
How? He basically blind tested a bunch of balls that were maybe 15 years apart in age. His 'tests' were close to meaningless.
vice or kirkland!, i use the V1X but I believe if you want a premium ball at a less than premium price, kirkland and vice both make good balls
Yes indeed, those balls are rubbish. You should the “Hit Me Again Pro V1’s” found at Walmart. For refurbished ball. They are great and for durability, finish, and consistency. The only Pro V1 Refurbs that I will buy. Unfortunately, they are not always in stock, they go fast off the shelves. But you can pick them up online. They even offer the “Hit Me Again Pro V1x” balls as well. 🥂
Hey rick can you try the walmart hit it again pro v1 balls to see if it was just that company
Never bought into the whole idea of Pro V1 being the best, and for more reasons than just that your average golfer doesn't swing consistently enough to notice a difference.
I find more Pro V1's lost in the bushes than any other ball, even at courses that don't sell Pro V1 at the clubhouse. They don't seem to be winning on the PGA as much as the TP5 either.
The refurbished ball thing is horrendous. Scuffed up, shrink wrapped Pro V1 balls costing more than a new package of mid-tier TM RBZ balls is a scam.
I used to get Korean titleist refinished balls from my local golf shop, they were cheaper than your second hand balls. Must be brutally honest, I loved them, I used to only play with refinished balls for a period of 2 years until the shop stopped bringing them in. I miss them as they were also so much cheaper.
I've been using refurbished prov1x and thought they felt different, but my game is not quite on your level, so I chalked it up to a poor strike. But now I know for sure it is the ball. Thanks Rick, no more cheap balls for me.
In your video, THE TRUTH: PRO V1 Refurbished Balls, you said they were really good? What changed your mind?
Inconsistency! I have purchased refinished golf balls from a well known used golf ball company and the variation in the same brand ball was just what you have identified here. Some of them were great but some from the same box were terrible. I don't know, at 90 cents a ball compared to 5 dollars a ball may be worth the chance.
An extra layer of paint would likely deaden sound off the putter some. That extra layer of paint would also change weight and ball size. If you’re not getting the prov1/x as engineered by Titleist then you’re better off buying a less expensive new ball like a Taylormade tp5 or something. In reality most people don’t compress the ball enough to warrant a high compression ball anyway. Better to buy a ball which compression that matches your clubhead speed and also has spin which matches your skill level.
You can get 2 Dozen Kirkland balls for the price of one refurbished. The latest Kirkland ball (red) performs excellent. Much more consistent and durable than the last version (green)
Anyone looking for new golf balls for a little cheaper price but also high quality and performance I recommend the Kirkland’s V2’s
ill play the Volvik Neon golf balls. probably not the best, but they feel good and can be seen a MILE away., I also think the matte finish is nice. for more of a challenge ill play their black ball. SO easy to lose ha ha ha. fun to break out for a putt. people look at them like they are abominations. :)