Dropped Frames - Week 172 - Fallout 76 Sucks (Part 2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2018
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Dropped Frames is a show featuring hosts itmeJP, Ezekiel_III and CohhCarnage where they discuss the on goings of being a full-time streamer. Follow at DroppedFrames
Guests include:
/ drlupo
Check out more of @Ezekiel_III at / ezekiel_iii and @CohhCarnage at / cohhcarnage
Feel free to drop feedback in the comments or jump into the discussion every Wednesday at 1:00 PM Eastern! - เกม
If only TB was still alive his video would probably be like "I will now talk about Fallout 76 for over 30 minutes".
or cut it short to "it's bad. I'm done.."
For over 1hr* fixt
He'd probably have expanded it to something bigger like "I will now talk about Fallout 76 and self-destructive business practices for over 40 minutes"
Bain had very strong feelings against Bethesda Game Studio. I don't think he would have said anything beyond "This game is utter garbage. I would rather stick my head down a sewage drain for 30 minutes than play a minute of this game, and so should you."
20 minutes of that would be a rant about the lack of an FOV slider. miss ya TB
*Tries to copy-paste the whole fallout codebase at once to es6 and gets out of memory error* -Todd: "The technology isn't there yet"
A wise man once said...
*Stop preordering video games!*
Damn we all miss TB
And everyone ignored him and did what they wanted
Years of cutting Bethesda slack and giving awards to buggy messes, getting more soulless with each release is how we got here. Fans enabled Bethesda to do this and believe it will be ok
Cohh it's a example of this, just go check out dropped frames about Fallout 4
@@dio_lima I think I found the bit you meant th-cam.com/video/CuIQOyuBAZE/w-d-xo.html&t=1697
And by no means I'm blaming Cohh, that'd be silly, it's just quite accurate depiction of community attitude. It's easy to see how trust slooowllyyy was eroding, and how Bethesda could've missed it and conducted business as usual
I hope they would get Dan on the show to talk about rdr2 since all three of them didnt really enjoy the game and Dan loved that game a lot. Just to get another perspective on it.
Watching this in 2024 because what's old is now new again.
Actually blue with a stripe of yellow is also $18
I like the Slide-Cohh this episode
Cohh in 10 fps average. XD
Is the podcast on Spotify?
In relation to the discussion about who to blame: I'm a software developer, but not in games. It's almost certainly both the devs and the people telling the devs what to work on. The devs wrote code with a bug, and you can't avoid that fact. Someone created the reload animation for the rifle that excessively loads rounds. But, in my experience as a dev, you don't get to self-determine what you get to go back and work on. The project manager, business analysts, etc. decide that. They seem to have prioritized things other than bug fixes (idk _what_ they prioritized, because nothing looks like it was given a lot of attention...).
Nobody gets out unscathed.
Will ZiggyD be on for next weeks episode?
Great sermon.
I love how youtube is now so broken I have to refresh this video on 18:18, 23:23, 29:29, 31:21 (a departure from the trend; and now my science-instinct wants to solve this mystery, great) (this count is ongoing and will be updated via edits as needed)
Ive been less and less into Bethesda's games (admittedly, mostly looking at the RPGs) with every game since Oblivion. Im saddened by this further step away.
Bethesda only makes RPGs. The other games such as DOOM are published by them but made by other companies. So problems with Bethesda do not extend to them.
Creating real things or fantasy things as art are really two different disciplines. There are little minutia that Red Dead gets right about the gait of a horse that are GREAT and impressive, but also after a fashion kind of unnecessary. Making a 'realistic' looking fantasy creature is about referencing actual biology and putting it together in an interesting way. I think there are very impressive feats that can be accomplished in both disciplines. People who are artists or have insane attention to detail tend to notice the impressive things in recreations of 'real' things more often. But then like Zeke said earlier 'realism' isn't necessarily what he is looking for (I know that wasn't specifically pointed at art but still), and I understand that. What matters the most is how much you do or don't enjoy a thing.
12:31 Oh Niave little Cohh, that's not a bug, they just never bothered to add separate animations.
Best Rant Ever! Moar!
The one thing in this game that worked well from day one was buying from the atomic shop
Cohh's opinion of RDR2 shows he powered through the main story. To each is own when it comes to what you expect from the story of the game. Do you like a lot of twists and turns or a more slow and expanding story and builds on its self. It's a preference for sure. I have to say there is a scene that is close to the end of Arthur's story where it just broke my heart and Cohh never experienced it as he didn't do any side missions which in turn change the scene and the person Arthur was interacting within that specific scene. Just goes to show you that with this game it all of it or none of it. To experience the full game you need to play the full game.
The sister scene I guess? It made me burst into tears when I saw it
@@dio_lima Yeah, his face...
Cohh is also the same guy who said ELEX is a "hidden gem" and "potential cult classic"
@@justinhoel3145 to be fair I can agree with that. ELEX was a diamond in the rought ... very rought. The things that were going for it was the world, the lore. They were very interesting to me at least, but the you can see they didn't have the budget or the man power to realise the game they wanted to make. You can see that in the animations, mechanics etc. Which for some are for sure a deal breakers and kinda for me, I never finished the game. There was potential there, if something buyes them like Obsidian they could do great things
The fact that the story scenes are changed that much by side missions sounds amazing. I can't wait for that game to come to PC.
"JP, Cohh, and MUCH more!" lol
I've never been interested in Bethesda games, closest thing is Skyrim, always heard about how buggy those games released it yet people always go crazy with how good it is etc, now they make it buggier then ever, have it on their own platform so you can't refund it so they can get all the money steam's cut was and using engine way to long (same being said with Telltale), quite frankly this is embarrassing and un-excusable greed.
Kind of shame hearing people cheering and praising fallout 3, kind of luke warm from what i've heard with fallout 4, but hear quite a few saying that new vegas was one of the best games and that's made by original fallout 1-2 devs (obsidian), kind of related, know one that is big into fallout and bethesta game, he thought bethesda made new vegas also.
man, people are finally waking up to bethesda not being the holy grail? good, the fact that EVERY game had to be "saved/patched" by mods from third parties/players, is insane. They should have tanked a lot earlier. Sure their open world games are ambitious, but they chose that kind of design. They need to be able to execute properly. They had multiples iterations to get it right.
Bethesda at this point shoud pay people to play their games. The consumers should not have to fix the problems when they are shelling out $60+ per game.
I loved the old hitman games. I wonder if the new ones would fill that void. They seem super short and not very story based.
I'll wait for a proper story to be patched in.
Bethesda has been doing this for over a decade, it's weird that people just notice it now.
They noticed it before, but there's usually a really good story and a fully realized world that distracts from or minimizes the technical issues. 76 has none of those inherent positives of the typical Bethesda game on top of being their buggiest release in a decade. It's so bad it's making people realize how many free passes they used to give Bethesda and how that's probably encouraged their overall laziness
@@umphreak9999 Good story? You're joking, right? All the Bethesda games I've played has had a very weak main story line that is very short, with bad writing and an anti-climactic ending. The only thing Bethesda games have going for them is the scale of their worlds, but then you get tired of their giant buggy world very easily.
I know right?
They should have said that fallout 76 is a pilot game, focused more on the fact that they're really just taking fallout 4 and trying to go nuts with it and stretch it to something new. That it's super experimental. Write that shit on the back of the box or on the front page.
They should have charged ~15 bucks for the game. Hell, maybe 25 bucks. Not 60.
well they did get caught for copy-pasting stuff from skyrim and fallout 4, code had "fallout4" etc in comment section :D
When was the last time, besides Skyrim, that Bethesda made something really good? Morrowind? Oblivion wasnt that good as most people remember, Fallout 3 created a new formula for the franchise but it was Obsidian that perfected it.
Skyrim wasn't good, it was the further bastardization of the Elder Scrolls series and the futher dumbing down of Bethesda RPGs.
US paid 60 for a broken game. Here in Canada we paid 80. In Australia, they paid 100+ for just the standard version. Most paid early for the insulting data sink that was the beta. Then put the game down to $30 a week later for black friday, offering no real compensation to any of the people who stuck with their bullshit. Bethesda's ship is sinking. I don't think we'll see anything good come from them in the future.
Its only terrible because it has no mods to fix it. No single player to guide it. They aren't going to start fixing their engine now. Bethesda games to me have always been lacklustre. But they were the only games of its kind around so they got a free pass. "open world games are hard and so the bugs are to be expected". Yeah. Okay.
I d like to blame the suits and say its not gamers and devs making decisions but if you look at it honestly, just as Cohhh said, alot of the bugs in Fallout 76 were already in Fallout 4, Bethesda is known for not fixing bugs (look at the Skyrim enhanced edition which has the same bugs as the base game) and then Todd Howard ws straight up lying about the game in interviews and at E3. This is not an issue with investors, its straight up Bethesda as a company that has become the problem. I mean the game is an asset flip and none of the gameplay mechanics make sense (multiplayer game where all the lore you get is holo tapes or reading, which is not at all mp friendly etc). They have to change or this ship will sink
I guarantee you that no matter how bad Beth. fucked uup, and how badly these three gripe, every one of these three will pre-order both Starfield and TES6. If they didn’t have YT and Twitch channels, maybe not, but they will to keep their respective channels relevant. And we’ll have another set of videos just like this one. If you don’t learn from your mistakes your are doomed to repeat them.
I vote cohh.
How can cohh continue loving bethesda after all this? Why do people try to love companies? They creat we consume there should not be any loyalty stuff in this.people let companies manipulate them emotionaly so much . Staaaaaap! #stoppreordering
why hate them for just one mistake? you know, people make mistakes. and it's not like they've been making bad games all the time,right? this is the first time they made a bad game, so i think we could be more forgiving
I saw this coming since they announced the game. The eerie feeling of a cashgrab made me not preorder. So happy my gut saved me the money.
If Bethesda has any hope of saving the reputation and money making ability of their company they need to make SERIOUS CHANGES. People need to be fired. They need to either create a new game engine or license a modern working game engine.
I agree with JP that they need to shut down for a few years and make these changes. Just imagine if a company like CD Projekt Red makes Fallout 5. Just imagine how amazing that would be rather then Bethesda releasing a re-skinned Fallout 4.
I didn't think Fallout 76 was really that bad. He seemed to be enjoying the game, and I know there were flaws, but after listening to his rant, that's actually kind of frightening.
First fallout game i won't buy until it's fixed and under $20.00
I gaurentee you didnt buy the first two until 20 years after release just to hipster about them dispite them being at best decent games for the time and terrible games by the stamdard of the same year
NEVER PREORDER EVER
the loading 5 bullets isn't a bug...they didn't make animations for different amounts of bullets..
But they do with the pump shotgun? That doesn't make sense, at all.
@@knuckingfutters5399 yeah I'm guessing that they put more effort into that animation as it likely isnt the exact same one for the rifle
If anyone still buys this game you have been warned is what i get from this video:)
I could have say Tod Howard and his lurking mob revealed their evil face like white collar criminals, but I think wasnt that care from his part and watching on this game considered the franchise so its simple a sin.Lots of Bethesda and Fallout fans wont forget this maybe if they can excuse with time.
And todd howard saying that starfield and elder scrolls 6 are going to be on this creation engine is hilarious and should raise red flags for people as well and i think that the creation engine itself is fundamentally the problem here that engine is so out dated and they need to go to unreal engine or something
The difference between NMS and F76, NMS is their baby and F76 is their side chick.
Seems the NPC's were absent from the game due to the fact they were busy marketing it.
*pretends to be shocked*
Daggerfall was very much like this. I dealt with game crashing and game breaking bugs, save to floppy and several patches in the first month. They know better but are continuing to do it anyway. I am Pepperidge Farms and I remember.
Thank you Cohh. I really don't like that I didn't buy this game yet. I want to love the game...but I just can't. I pre-ordered....but I cancelled my preorder after I got a beta code just so I could try it without committing to it. Best decision I have made in a while. I hate that I called this a shitshow early on...because it all came true. I didn't want that. I wanted to love another Fallout game. I just can't with this one.
technology hasn't caught up yet aka our consumers need better computers oh god
Cohh rushed through the main story of RDR2 and compared this to The Witcher 3, where he played all the side quests do all the Gwent stuff. As much as i love him bro, i dont think it is a valid comparison, sure one can have preferences and tastes, BUT only rushing through the main story and comparing to the entirety of TW3 is unfair. For me personally, i played RDR2 and TW3, RDR2 trumps TW3 in so many other ways. Sure, the story might not be on par, but the living world, graphics, mechanics and believable characters really puts this game far above anything else that came out. Im down for valid arguments and stuff :)
Not to forget the great sidequests like the Dragic storyline.
Dude i personally have lost a lot of respect for Cohhs opinions in terms of being a go to guy on games i would play. He gives games like KCD, FO76, ELEX and many other bullshit buggy games chance after chance but then his opinions on actual well made great games like RDR2 and shit are just meh. He literally said ELEX is a "hidden gem" and "cult classic" like cmon dude wtf...
Well he stated that western are not his thing. So it's only logical he prefered TW3. I am personally the same way. RDR2 only mildly interests me because the setting is not something I care too much about.
well the problem lies with you guys cohh always tells you the good and bad things about games and why he likes or dislikes them so you can't just take one without the other obviously elex he didn't recommend outright at all even if it is a hidden gem in some ways and with RDR2 about half my friends love this game and the other half can't play it more than few hours or don't finish it. TW3 just speaks to a larger audience for whatever reason maybe world setting maybe the medieval time, story fantasy whatever it is so you can't tell him he cannot compare to TW3 because he didn't do sidequests he was not interested in the game has to make them interesting to you so i think its just RDR2 is not for everybody its okay and that people can say its a quality game even though they don't like it whats wrong with that? its just not their cup of tea!
RDR 2 side content is not fun to do. It's fun in theory, but actually doing it is not fun. It's all thanks to awkward controls and how you have to fight them very often and the tedious nature of doing every little thing in that game: looting, picking things up, shopping, skinning animals, everything takes so much time and is unnecessarily long. For every 1 minute of cool stuff that happens there will be 5 minutes of traveling and watching the same animations over and over. They focused way too much on immersion to the point where it is making the game not fun to play. Unless you focus on the main story because that's where the fun, fast paced, and original stuff is. And that's why people focus on main story in those games.
Witcher 3 is different. It has the same kind of depth and plenty of immersion, but the devs were smart enough not to go overboard and still let you do basic things like fast travel, buying items fast, quick looting, highlighting items of interest on the map (herbs and such). Witcher 3 does not feel like a chore to play and that is the main difference. And this is why I still consider Witcher 3 a better video game than RDR2. Also I prefer the setting, characters, and story much more, however that's just a cherry on top as far as this argument is concerned.
wow for Cohh make this statement the game is really really bad
I DO hate Bethesda, they have been awful ever since Morrowind and just further and further dumb down their RPGs. I have always considrered thir games wide as an ocean bu tas deep as a puddle. (Morrowind being the exception, that was their last true RPG)
at least it /only/ costs $60 to americans, at best here in Australia, Fallout 76 costs $79, at worst (EB games) $99.95, same from bethesda themselves...they stupidly overpriced it here for no apparent reason..
Cohh could rant at me for hours and I would hang on every word. His passion for this topic is unreal
Pre-ordering games in the digital distribution age is fucking stupid, stop doing it Cohh. I wish you 'influencers' would fucking stop pre ordering games!
You get points by playing the game to spend in the shop so you dont have to actually spend money
Im having fun with F76 but This does have me worried for ES6
I agree the cash shop is very generous. Fallout 76 is a terrible game, but I love it. Every time I hear someone complain about the game I agree with them, but I also play it constantly and plan on playing more. I can't really explain it.
@@unclealscampfirestories8699 right I'm just a sucker for lore and exploring i think
Old Man Shiny Same. There are problems, especially if you are playing on anything other than an xbox, but it has potential. Bethesda needs to be transparent, and they need to put in the effort to not only keep this ship afloat, but heading towards a good place. If this game fails, we may never see Fallout again.
That MH movie is gonna be a damn trainwreck. I'd prefer if we would already act like it doesn't exist
Cohh have played to much fallout 76 he is gltichin!
8:40
And you support this by having bought the game.
It seems the definition of NPC is skewed to specifically mean human being when talking only about fallout 76. Not only is this not what NPC means but on launch fallout 76 had NPCs to interact with, have conversations with and preform quests for. Now theres to way too many. I wont deny the game itself was broke as fuck, cohh is right there. Even if he does seem to be a person who bandwagons he got thats shit right.
seems like cohh was really lenient on f76
I think that is weird play game 100 h and say its bad. As streamer you might find something better to stream or is Cohhcarnage backlog so empty. Only sounds pure business decision.
Cohh is obviously a massive Fallout fan, but even he can see that the game is broken. He can find some enjoyment in the shitstorm, but that does not make the game good.
@@Elidan1012 I went to hes own channel. And the video: Cohh Gives His Thoughts About Fallout 76 with this it kind make more sense.
game looks like @ss and no VATS to make more "turn-based" makes it an even bigger turd.....mmo's turn anything with deep lore and story into sh$t though. Screw the mmo's go back to making single player Fallouts please and thank you
As someone who thought that cohh was being paid to play fallout 76 my reasoning that the game is so horrible that I can’t fathom how so many streamers would play the game and give it publicity. I don’t think cohh is a bad person but I think he’s doing a really bad thing by playing fallout 76 and giving it attention. This game needs to fail for the sake of the game industry
I’m about to blow your mind.
Not everyone has the same opinion as you.
He gets a huge viewer boost with this game and his audience expects him to play it. You should also take into concideration that a streamer is not like a normal consumer ;he can afford to waste time on a video game spending that time to make sur it's trash, oposed to a normal consumer whos job is not to play video games would buy one game and play that for a long time and expect another kind of value out of the game.
one thing CO really didnt consider is that this is just a casual release for the company this is a full on fallout game or title they expect to be a quality good game through and through i felt like they were open that this is a experimental game more than a full thing so that for sure is a reason why they held back on a lot of stuff so a lot of people are taking this game a bit more seriously than they should. the real bullshit thing about all this tho is the price of the game, because of the price i cant blame people for taking this game so seriously because it is being priced as a full-on game they invested all their money into or something. if the price went down by a good bit then it would be more obvious to people that this isn't a full on a title, just a teaser and money grab to fuel the real stuff that is coming out.
Stop saying F76 is taking risk. its just a generic sandbox multiplayer like every other. Its the most uninspired game ever done by Bethesda. they're basically selling rust at 60$.
The worst part is that Cohh trashes the game but still plays it and promotes it for 100h hour on twitch. The stockolm syndrome is strong with this one.
@@RobertoMaybe1 maybe its just me but "he's not playing it for the game" dont make any sense to me.
As for the "he's playing it so you don't have to" argument.
I'm sorry but he don't need to play this game for 100 hours on twitch so i don't have to. He could have stopped after the beta. Thats what i did.
It's just a bad excuse. Especially considering that he still plan on 100% it.
I love Cohh but he always had a weird relationship with fallout and bethesda. This game illustrates that the best.
He knows it's trash, he knows bethesda practices are not ok but he keeps playing and supporting the company.
how is saying "Don't buy this game, don't play this game, don't ever preorder from Bethesda again" in any way promoting it?
@@korenn9381 Even if he says that the game is bad he still plays it on twitch with thousands of poeple watching him. As far as i know he doesnt spend his entire stream screaming don't buy the game for 8hours.
Doesnt matter how he feels about the game if he keeps playing the game on twitch. at best he is just sending mixed messages. Don't buy the game but i am still enjoying it and plan to 100% it.
Streamers need to realise that they are public figure with a voice that counts in the gaming industry. That's why so many company are promoting their games with sponsored stream and that's why if you think a game is trash you should not keep playing it and giving it coverage for that long.
@@b0rz308 He plays and reviews games for a living. He gives them a full shot even if he doesn't like them, and there's bits here that he really does enjoy (as he said in the podcast). If he then says "it's trash, don't buy it" you know it means something. If you have a problem with him giving games every chance they could possibly get while doing his job, then that's not stockholm syndrome on his part, that's entitlement on yours.
@@korenn9381 here we go. Throwing some ad hominem and calling me entitled lol.
reviewing a game doesnt take 100h or require to 100% it.
btw even if he makes some thoughts videos he is not a reviewer. He said it himself many times.
And even if he was He already established that the game is trash so why keep playing it ? why 100% it?
As for "giving games a full shot". please stop the hypocrisy.
playing this game for that long and planning to 100% has nothing to do with it.
If we follow your logic there are many games that Cohh didn't give a full shot then.
He does it because the game is called Fallout. That's it. nothing else.
Like i said he has a weird relationship with fallout and bethesda. He calls it fanboyism but for me it's more of an addiction than anything. He knows its bad he knows that bethesda is bad but he keeps playing.
Anyway i'm just glad this shit show is over (at least for now) and i'm going to stop this conversation here since i'm just repeating myself over and over.
have a nice day.