@@EvaGillard-yp4opRead this, and tell me if I'm wrong: 1. Reading is a high level skill - many if not most people cannot read articles by themselves properly, or will not. So he is educating people. Including me who can type meaningful arguments like this, but is often tired of finding and reading these articles on my own. 2. Doing anything on a consistent basis requires more effort than doing it just once or twice. He's been doing it for long. People know what quality they get here. People trust he's around, and they know which information to find on his channel. This is in fact a greater service than "just reading". 3. He has a relevant level of knowledge on many topics, and in several videos he provides his own content. Further he interviews people with even more special knowledge from time to time, which is a great service. So I think you're wrong that he "just reads", and "moronic" doesn't fit his efforts. I would like to tell you, that you saying it's moronic, probably doesn't lead to anything positive, long or near term. Further your statement has just little information. It is not the same, but very close to just a "toxic opinion". Generally toxic opinions are the worst. They ruin everyone's day. I think you can do better than that. Perhaps in a future comment you can provide more information, and be less insulting with your speech? For example: "On many videos he does a lot of reading and I don't think that's making great videos. Can you add more thought to your videos?." This example has more information. (specific information about yourself, and what you want to see also counts, because if Prime reads hit he still learns more about what his viewers want). I hope this helps you.
@@keyboard_g Yeah but if your upstream goes wild, plenty of other people people will be in a similar situation to you. Usually at least some of them band together to maintain the fork.
The reason why "buy IBM" was a thing, was because at the time when I first heard about it IBM was all about charging you more than everyone else but willing to move heaven and earth to keep you happy. This was around 1992, when IBM was a truly different animal and their reputation was built on it.
It's always fun to annoy the React (and other trendy tech) apologists by reminding them that Java Spring + Angular still is THE enterprise web stack in most of the world
So what? You work with what you know or what is available to you to be able to provide food for your family. I personally dislike Java and its stack, mostly due to the Corporate/Enterprise spin on it. But for each their own. If tomorrow the dust settles and the world decides there would be no other way to write WEB so be it :) Till then I will use whatever else I like and know and avoid it :D PS: All tech is fine if it works for you and your use-case.
@@simm0l I'm not saying you have to use those technologies. The comment was directed at people who do say you HAVE to use React and the latest footguns in order to be a good dev. These people are lunatics
Just because it's popular and used in many places, doesn't mean it's good. I know this is impossible to sometimes wrap your head around, but start from the word "hype" to figure it out.
I really like your channel, because in it you can learn about many topics, not only about programming, but also about philosophy and attitude towards life (Big fan). As a recent graduate of computer engineering, I have seen very little, and by saying very little, I mean theoretical concepts and some elective (which I have not taken as I am not interested) of web development, however, 90% of the online content that I see emerging, focuses on programming or development, are focused on web (Front, back or full stack, whatever). I have always had the feeling that web development is only one of the fields, if you want to call it that way, of programming, not even the most significant, however it is the one that has by far the most impact, followers and self-taught, who think that web developing is the center of the programming universe, and it is the first time I hear the opposite, by someone with experience in web development (among other things). I wish a video dedicated to this, the perception of the environment of some developers. Best regards.
There are entire industries of developers not being considered by chat. Take a look at the size of the RFCs for things like Industrial Control Systems and SCADA alone to give you an idea of how much development manpower is required to create and maintain those.
My problem with small companies is that some are looking to get sold and then you get rug pulled anyway, so I tend to look for things that are open source and maintained by an org, its not impossible but less likely, also self hosted and maintained a lot of work but it pays in being able to move easily, the only problem is its hard as a beginner without guidance to get that right.
They are somewhat easy to spot. If the landing page looks like made for investors rather than users, meaning it looks very shiny but you still don't know what they are selling; it is usually going to be one of the rugpulled products.
@@themisir It's amazing how many github projects I stumble upon and I'm like "oh my god, this is going to change everything for me...omg its even MIT license..." and then I see it's only been favorited by 25 people. Blows my mind.
There is a really old blog post called "Beating the averages" It is written by Paul Graham... Really insightful, and goes completely against this "Always go with Foo"...
7:57 hard disagree, if the team is mature enough, the technology should be decided mainly off the project needs and not the team's proficiency. I've seen this mistake made way too many times.
Amen. Learning some different tech stack is not like learning CS, programming from scratch. You would be surprised how quiclky people learn when they actually have to use the stuff at work.
I remember (late 1990s) when old school Linux guys in the local LUG openly mocked the concept of "web developer" to even be considered both a thing and whether it was on par with 'actual' developers. As time has shown, in a lot of ways, they were correct.
It blows my mind how important some people think front-end is. Not to say that it isn't; I know that it actually can make a *huge* difference in your business (or whatever you're making). But like... someone had to design the CPU first, ya know?
2:00 When I chose our frontend library my boss (who knew nothing about frontend) had some questions, but he stopped asking when I said "it's widely used and backed by Facebook". I.e. all he wanted to know that's it's stable and backed / used by a big company.
In my previous project, we had a little talk at the very beginning about tech stack. React: because it is backed by Facebook, is the most popular, and it is very easy to find people to write it. End of story. Meanwhile, years ago I told one potential client: "I can't work for you, I don't know React". He said: "You will learn". I stayed there for three years.
And that's not enough, cause it's not the same in modern JS as it is in anything else. My question in his shoes would be how easy would it be to rip it off and replace it with something else?
@@simm0l Funny, I touched on this topic some time ago and the senior dev in the company said: "You can think about such stuff when it comes to a year, maybe two years long projects. Anything more than that is just guessing". And he was kinda right. I mean, picking a framework already locks you in.
The Google thingy is a bit biased, for two reasons. One, they are known to kill anything they deem "unworthy", which i guess means "not making (enough) money". And most important, two, you can only control what you own. Anything you're "leasing" in any capacity is out of your control. Which is the one reason i think tying up any product to someone else's product (that you don't control) is lock'stock'n'barrel suicidal. And it matters little if they're large or small. Left-pad anyone? Oh, and "buy IBM" made sense back when, as they sold you the hw and the license for the sw. If you bought storage, they wouldn't show up and tell you "we're not supporting this anymore so we'll come back in 12months and blast it to bits". Unlike your cloud storage provider that surely can and might one day.
That saying is not about risk management within the company, but about covering your ass as an employee. Most people making decisions (especially managers) don't want anyone else questioning them (cause that can hamper their career) so they take the stance of conformism above everything else. A business that want to be efficient and successful should not let that happen and absolutely fire people for "buying IBM" (and not fire people just because they took a risky decision unless that decision was actually dumb)
But nobody is probably getting fired from following the heard mentality, even if it's incorrect. Anyone who proposed Meta's Workspace (or other ragpull) is just getting who-could-have-known nods.
Hearing you talk about "going against the grain" is wild from netflix considering i recently heard that because I wanted to name a field that holds IDs so it ended with "Id". Never thought being explicit was an anti-pattern
The fact that people think that React is a center of development world is INSANE. For me frontend always was and will be browser scripting, it's not even a real engineering. Crazy.
How is it pulling the rug when they are giving people a year to switch? It would be one thing if it was something crazy like a database product or a cloud platform.. but a chat/collab app? Not that hard to migrate within a year
This feels like a false equivalence. React is a tool, Workplace is a service. One of these things will remain accessible ad-infinitum once you've forked/downloaded it (and will continue to be adjustable if you're insane enough), and the other relies on the benevolence of its creator to remain functional and offers no "legitimate" method of carrying on usage past its lifetime.
From my perceptive and HR perceptive The most unhirable technology is some so called "enterprise" proprietary technology / development tool We have "enterprise" proprietary technology with crazy license cost, it is really hard to find people. The development tool is also quite bad and slow compared to all well-known programming language Also, some other tools are broken completely 1. No people used them except those coming from consultant firm / work with the product for a long time 2. No smart young people want to bet on those super niche technology for the rest of their life
4:29 - totally not the point of the video, but I'd like to fill out some of the details on "games use lua for the UI": world of warcraft UIs were "made in lua" (or at least they were back in 2010). but the UI implementation is a custom part of the underlying custom game engine. lua doesn't have a built-in UI framework. it's just a language, like C or C++. that means that even if the UI dev is using lua, the underlying implementation itself still is using a fully custom solution, or qt/gtk bindings, or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if some app that had lua embedded in 2024 was using Dear IMGUI. (I don't know what specifically roblox does, because I'm an adult, but they're probably the biggest lua consumer at this point. but what I said above 100% applies to them too) but yeah, every game uses whatever their engine provides (which is usually custom to the engine), or they graft on an existing solution, or they build their own. the 2D UI is not considered a core problem for most games, so they cobble together whatever they feel like using.
Yea I saw noita was written with Lua and I wanted to build a similar project so I just used C++/WASM. Idk what any of this has to do with anything, just waiting for someone to call me an r* so I can change my mind again and never finish. Main thing is the problems aren't that hard to solve and they've been done solved. It's ECS -> particle physics for effects -> particle physics/pools. Most game devs use an engine and can't get past ECS. AGAIN idk what this has to do with anything other than lots of big companies hiring people not based on talent. So, try that out.
@@blarghblargh lol and then the the other game OCR. All my ideas are getting cut down by joblessness and becoming more practical. All the things still are on the way but now the mortgage VUE SSR calculator gets priority :(
Really good correlation with the React stuff. Most people don't know the difference between risk management and liability shift. So you have dumb dumb business degrees switching over to companies that lack long term stability and futures. I use almost every language imaginable, but I avoid nodejs, with the passion, just because of the rollover cycles.
I think the bias that "the center of the universe is web" comes from entrepreneurs who put up sites and call it "their business". And the web is supposed to be most democratic. Except that maybe it isn't, but lots of people must think of the web of having most ownership of their work.
Yeah, I bet on Microsoft Silverlight way back ago and it definitely let me down. So, no, using Microsoft isn't necessarily a safe bet, although they made it better when they made .Net open source. After too many iterations with different frontend frameworks from Microsoft, that was the final straw and nowadays I only trust C# for server-side development. The safest choice (not necessarily the best choice) is the tech that outlived the company it was born in. Even though [Nokia] Bell Labs still exists, it is nowadays completely irrelevant to C's existence and we can all agree on how important C still is and how safe it is that it will not go away in the near future.
IRC. Though people moved away from it because things like slack and discord are easier and more feature packed out of the box, so to speak. I mean IRC is just a protocol and you can do a lot with the right clients, bots, etc, probably more than the alternatives, but the more you need, the more complicated things get. The bog standard setup lacks a few things many consider vital like a robust message history.
I think the tweet missed the point.... "No one got fired buying from IBM" exists because IBM is renown for their servers - and thus, if the servers cause issues the attitude will be "Well this couldn't have been prevented, we went with the best in the business and hit some issues". Adopting a commercial communication solution from Meta (not at all their speciality) is the OPPOSITE of buying servers from IBM. If someone makes the call to buy a Slack-solution from ... Slack... and then Slack die... no one is blaming the decision maker... they went with the "best in the business" and it didn't pan out. If someone buys a Slack solution from a consumer social media brand... and they sunset it... the decision maker will have questions to ask about "Why did we even use Meta?"
1:58 well they say if you don't use React you going against the groin. And they are right in a corporation context. Single everything principle makes systems sustainable. Imagine you have a Zoo: React, Svelte, Angular, etc in one company. Yes, it is not hard to find new people who can take the job, butt it is also not easy to do inside work when switching people around when assigning different tasks. Why devs never think about the future of their code and how it scales in a biger context ?
Cause, first is not their job :) Most companies don't give you time or money to future-proof stuff. Second, most projects get rewritten or abandoned in 2-3 years. I am not even sure it's worth it to invest the time and effort for everything to be future-proof and scalable. Keep your core business logic outside of the volatile tech and it would be fine. Web apps are supposed to be build fast and forgotten even faster :)
The difference is react is the most popular framework. I would be willing to bet if you bet on slack instead of workplace (a relatively unpopular cheaper alternative) you would be safer and take the longest to be forced to jump ship to the new most popular option.
As someone who generates static html and embeds a tiny no-build js for every single project, I have no clue what you would need these big crazy complicated frameworks for. Web could do just fine without 95% of JS we ship.
Poor training. All the training I saw were teaching in jQuery and/or React. I didn't know JS had classes, polymorphism, constructors, and custom elements until 2 months ago. And this is coming from a guy who learned C++ as a first language.
More annoying than this are open source projects that use contributions to build their product, and then, after using free contributions, turn it into a paid product.
If we are talking about actual large enterprise applications anyone saying web is out numbering backend is insane. Remember, we are still blocked on the OmegaStar team to integrate with Galactus.
Bit late to the party haven't time to comment until now. Yes React isn't Meta core product its not even a side product , its inside project made public. The ones who do business and developer stuff as core are companies like Microsoft, SAP, Oracle ...... Somewhat accidentally Google and Apple because they need to provide their stuff for their Smartphones/OS
The main reason wages go down is cheap outside labor, whether it is outsourcing to Asia, eastern Europe, immigrants from Africa, Ukraine, Russia, Latin America, conflict in middle east forces many people to move. Many companies focus on that cheap labor, sometimes specifically saying required to speak Ukrainian... why do U think stock making all time highs??
The bigger the company, the more they have to lose by doing something different/unproven. Very few places maintain that culture of innovation and re-challenging thestatus quo once they have grown the cash cow.
Russian here. Definitely truth. Many news I read is about some company (russian ofc) got their processes stuck because of subscription suspending and all the rest of that EU sanctions stuff that MS/IBM/ have to follow. Your video just shows that such treatment is not limited to sanctions but bad in general. Nobody is safe from being dropped out because of some decisions for the products they rely on. Self-hosted is now not only an option but a necessity.
To think you would be safer with smaller companies or companies that need your money to operate is not so wise as well! If there were ever an option of "safe 100% of the time", there wouldn't be any need for risk management. People hating of Meta for killing a project that is not generating "enough profit" while promoting other products is wild! There aren't many companies who actually build things to "make the wolrd a better place"! They ALL care about money. People choose the safest options not just to last forever, but it's a lot less risky than betting on companies that could go bankrupt and get out of business from early stages! Let's talk about React too, yes, there are other options, but is the entirety of the industry willing to move away from something that proves to be working well for most people/companies just for the sake of "oh, we shouldn't use react because it has downsides like every other language do"!
Prime saying os aren't using React. Microsoft now using react native in windows. So all those industries are not using react "yet". React is spreading faster than a man on a chair
Are you telling me that computer science universities don't even teach react? Insane, what do they talk about for years?? Isn't programming = react? (satirical take)
I think React in games is more companies looking for UI or Tech Artists in that aspect and just making do with w/e they get. I think EA and other AAA game companies like seeing CSS or web stuff if your applying for UI positions.
Hahahah. Web frontend the majority of devs. Lol Backends Embedded (ticketing, iot, security systems, printers, modems, literally everything with a chip in it) Mobile apps Desktop apps Compilers Games Medical Vehicles/control systems Trading systems Analytics, reporting, Forecasting and so on ML/AI/gene data processing Operating systems Jeesus some people don’t even look around the world they’re living in.
I really like this description of the industry as a set of separated silos doing their own things, because too many people don't see it this way. Because yes, there are many different branches of IT, one is porting Photoshop to the web and the other one is displaying 1 million polygons 60 frames per second. There are also many, many, many companies that are not SV top 100 on whatever list that people can apply to (read: you don't have to chase this *I worked at Google!* craze), and many more technologies than the Big Three of the week which You Have To Know In 2024.
technically yes you can also technically fork the Linux kernel, or whatever browser engine you want but the problem is, these projects are so huge that people will find security problems and similar all the time in them and by the time you are familiar enough to patch these fast enough, your fork will likely be considered a "too insecure, don't use"-project by a lot of people
@@kuhluhOG that's mostly because it's my hypothetical fork, but have a look at what's coming out of the Redis debacle - I don't see the official fork backed by the Linux Foundation to be sucky long term
Always bet on a dyslexic man quitting his big corp job to read full time
from scrum to preschool coding story hour. Same same.
forgot to mention he worked *_writing code_*
lol
@@EvaGillard-yp4op Says the genius in the comments...
@@EvaGillard-yp4opRead this, and tell me if I'm wrong:
1. Reading is a high level skill - many if not most people cannot read articles by themselves properly, or will not. So he is educating people. Including me who can type meaningful arguments like this, but is often tired of finding and reading these articles on my own.
2. Doing anything on a consistent basis requires more effort than doing it just once or twice. He's been doing it for long. People know what quality they get here. People trust he's around, and they know which information to find on his channel. This is in fact a greater service than "just reading".
3. He has a relevant level of knowledge on many topics, and in several videos he provides his own content. Further he interviews people with even more special knowledge from time to time, which is a great service.
So I think you're wrong that he "just reads", and "moronic" doesn't fit his efforts.
I would like to tell you, that you saying it's moronic, probably doesn't lead to anything positive, long or near term. Further your statement has just little information. It is not the same, but very close to just a "toxic opinion". Generally toxic opinions are the worst. They ruin everyone's day. I think you can do better than that. Perhaps in a future comment you can provide more information, and be less insulting with your speech?
For example: "On many videos he does a lot of reading and I don't think that's making great videos. Can you add more thought to your videos?." This example has more information. (specific information about yourself, and what you want to see also counts, because if Prime reads hit he still learns more about what his viewers want).
I hope this helps you.
FOSS. If you can't fork it, you're the one getting forked.
Fork or be forked.
Ah, yes, that famous quote.
“Everything in the world is about forking, except forking. Forking is about power.”
- Oscar Wilde, probably.
99.8% of people are not forking and maintaining a project. They are busy trying to run their company.
@@keyboard_g 96.2% of working people are employees so aren't busy running their company.
@@keyboard_g Yeah but if your upstream goes wild, plenty of other people people will be in a similar situation to you. Usually at least some of them band together to maintain the fork.
The reason why "buy IBM" was a thing, was because at the time when I first heard about it IBM was all about charging you more than everyone else but willing to move heaven and earth to keep you happy. This was around 1992, when IBM was a truly different animal and their reputation was built on it.
what do they even do nowadays
@@monad_tcpmainframes
@@monad_tcpVague computer stuff while sitting on their laurels and paying their employees diddly squat?
@@monad_tcp buy and sell companies.
@@monad_tcp charge massive licensing fees in order to use their mainframes & just keep going with their ancient systems.
Corpo: We want to be the leader in innovation!
Also corpo: We demand you use this product that everyone else does!
I’m all about nice back ends.
^ This man gets it.
It's always fun to annoy the React (and other trendy tech) apologists by reminding them that Java Spring + Angular still is THE enterprise web stack in most of the world
So many people in web development not ready to have that conversation
So what? You work with what you know or what is available to you to be able to provide food for your family.
I personally dislike Java and its stack, mostly due to the Corporate/Enterprise spin on it.
But for each their own.
If tomorrow the dust settles and the world decides there would be no other way to write WEB so be it :)
Till then I will use whatever else I like and know and avoid it :D
PS: All tech is fine if it works for you and your use-case.
@@simm0l Good take
@@simm0l I'm not saying you have to use those technologies. The comment was directed at people who do say you HAVE to use React and the latest footguns in order to be a good dev.
These people are lunatics
Just because it's popular and used in many places, doesn't mean it's good.
I know this is impossible to sometimes wrap your head around, but start from the word "hype" to figure it out.
I really like your channel, because in it you can learn about many topics, not only about programming, but also about philosophy and attitude towards life (Big fan). As a recent graduate of computer engineering, I have seen very little, and by saying very little, I mean theoretical concepts and some elective (which I have not taken as I am not interested) of web development, however, 90% of the online content that I see emerging, focuses on programming or development, are focused on web (Front, back or full stack, whatever). I have always had the feeling that web development is only one of the fields, if you want to call it that way, of programming, not even the most significant, however it is the one that has by far the most impact, followers and self-taught, who think that web developing is the center of the programming universe, and it is the first time I hear the opposite, by someone with experience in web development (among other things). I wish a video dedicated to this, the perception of the environment of some developers. Best regards.
There are entire industries of developers not being considered by chat. Take a look at the size of the RFCs for things like Industrial Control Systems and SCADA alone to give you an idea of how much development manpower is required to create and maintain those.
My problem with small companies is that some are looking to get sold and then you get rug pulled anyway, so I tend to look for things that are open source and maintained by an org, its not impossible but less likely, also self hosted and maintained a lot of work but it pays in being able to move easily, the only problem is its hard as a beginner without guidance to get that right.
They are somewhat easy to spot. If the landing page looks like made for investors rather than users, meaning it looks very shiny but you still don't know what they are selling; it is usually going to be one of the rugpulled products.
@@themisir It's amazing how many github projects I stumble upon and I'm like "oh my god, this is going to change everything for me...omg its even MIT license..." and then I see it's only been favorited by 25 people. Blows my mind.
There is a really old blog post called
"Beating the averages"
It is written by Paul Graham...
Really insightful, and goes completely against this "Always go with Foo"...
7:57 hard disagree, if the team is mature enough, the technology should be decided mainly off the project needs and not the team's proficiency. I've seen this mistake made way too many times.
Amen. Learning some different tech stack is not like learning CS, programming from scratch. You would be surprised how quiclky people learn when they actually have to use the stuff at work.
Wait what? Workplace is being closed??? I work at McD's and we literally JUST got set up with it like 2 weeks ago! 😬
Curious, what do you do at McD?
@@DjDuckk I just work in the kitchen. Nothing exciting
ThePrimeTime, Subscribed because your videos are so much fun!
“It is better to pick technology that you and your team is highly proficient at, than choosing a technology that everybody uses.”
Wise words 🐐
I remember (late 1990s) when old school Linux guys in the local LUG openly mocked the concept of "web developer" to even be considered both a thing and whether it was on par with 'actual' developers. As time has shown, in a lot of ways, they were correct.
that was mean, and the truth also
old school linux virgins yeaahh
@@rea1m_ Except the part where they were middle-aged and married with kids.
I mean, I wanted to respond with a lot of questions that would prove you and them wrong, but I decided to laugh at your mindsets, LOL
@@MrSnivvel just kidding bruv. At this rate most programmers ain’t real programmers, if you have to be an embedded linux nerd to be classified as one
It blows my mind how important some people think front-end is. Not to say that it isn't; I know that it actually can make a *huge* difference in your business (or whatever you're making). But like... someone had to design the CPU first, ya know?
2:00 When I chose our frontend library my boss (who knew nothing about frontend) had some questions, but he stopped asking when I said "it's widely used and backed by Facebook". I.e. all he wanted to know that's it's stable and backed / used by a big company.
In my previous project, we had a little talk at the very beginning about tech stack. React: because it is backed by Facebook, is the most popular, and it is very easy to find people to write it. End of story.
Meanwhile, years ago I told one potential client: "I can't work for you, I don't know React". He said: "You will learn". I stayed there for three years.
And that's not enough, cause it's not the same in modern JS as it is in anything else.
My question in his shoes would be how easy would it be to rip it off and replace it with something else?
@@simm0l Funny, I touched on this topic some time ago and the senior dev in the company said: "You can think about such stuff when it comes to a year, maybe two years long projects. Anything more than that is just guessing". And he was kinda right. I mean, picking a framework already locks you in.
"Girl go pee HP" damn
The Google thingy is a bit biased, for two reasons. One, they are known to kill anything they deem "unworthy", which i guess means "not making (enough) money". And most important, two, you can only control what you own. Anything you're "leasing" in any capacity is out of your control. Which is the one reason i think tying up any product to someone else's product (that you don't control) is lock'stock'n'barrel suicidal. And it matters little if they're large or small. Left-pad anyone?
Oh, and "buy IBM" made sense back when, as they sold you the hw and the license for the sw. If you bought storage, they wouldn't show up and tell you "we're not supporting this anymore so we'll come back in 12months and blast it to bits". Unlike your cloud storage provider that surely can and might one day.
That saying is not about risk management within the company, but about covering your ass as an employee. Most people making decisions (especially managers) don't want anyone else questioning them (cause that can hamper their career) so they take the stance of conformism above everything else. A business that want to be efficient and successful should not let that happen and absolutely fire people for "buying IBM" (and not fire people just because they took a risky decision unless that decision was actually dumb)
ML in react mentioned. I will now build an automatic differentiation engine, treating each component in the tree as a node in a computational graph.
Always remember: if a service is free, it's because you're the product.
Betting on google glasses / google + or any killed product sure sounded fun back then
I love whoever said "Ronald in shambles" in the chat.
SO GOOD to see prime humbling frontend people
But nobody is probably getting fired from following the heard mentality, even if it's incorrect. Anyone who proposed Meta's Workspace (or other ragpull) is just getting who-could-have-known nods.
Hearing you talk about "going against the grain" is wild from netflix considering i recently heard that because I wanted to name a field that holds IDs so it ended with "Id". Never thought being explicit was an anti-pattern
The fact that people think that React is a center of development world is INSANE.
For me frontend always was and will be browser scripting, it's not even a real engineering. Crazy.
How is it pulling the rug when they are giving people a year to switch? It would be one thing if it was something crazy like a database product or a cloud platform.. but a chat/collab app? Not that hard to migrate within a year
React is the fringe of a very thick stack of abstractions.
This feels like a false equivalence. React is a tool, Workplace is a service. One of these things will remain accessible ad-infinitum once you've forked/downloaded it (and will continue to be adjustable if you're insane enough), and the other relies on the benevolence of its creator to remain functional and offers no "legitimate" method of carrying on usage past its lifetime.
Also when react is eventually superseded there will be a lot of legacy integrations/support available.
I just realized
Google, Apple, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon
GAMMA
No Netflix mentioned :(
@@daphenomenalz4100 GAMMNA
@@daphenomenalz4100 GAMMAN? 🤷🏽♂️
MAGMA
@@daphenomenalz4100 GAMMAN
From my perceptive and HR perceptive
The most unhirable technology is some so called "enterprise" proprietary technology / development tool
We have "enterprise" proprietary technology with crazy license cost, it is really hard to find people.
The development tool is also quite bad and slow compared to all well-known programming language
Also, some other tools are broken completely
1. No people used them except those coming from consultant firm / work with the product for a long time
2. No smart young people want to bet on those super niche technology for the rest of their life
4:29 - totally not the point of the video, but I'd like to fill out some of the details on "games use lua for the UI":
world of warcraft UIs were "made in lua" (or at least they were back in 2010). but the UI implementation is a custom part of the underlying custom game engine.
lua doesn't have a built-in UI framework. it's just a language, like C or C++. that means that even if the UI dev is using lua, the underlying implementation itself still is using a fully custom solution, or qt/gtk bindings, or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if some app that had lua embedded in 2024 was using Dear IMGUI.
(I don't know what specifically roblox does, because I'm an adult, but they're probably the biggest lua consumer at this point. but what I said above 100% applies to them too)
but yeah, every game uses whatever their engine provides (which is usually custom to the engine), or they graft on an existing solution, or they build their own.
the 2D UI is not considered a core problem for most games, so they cobble together whatever they feel like using.
Yea I saw noita was written with Lua and I wanted to build a similar project so I just used C++/WASM. Idk what any of this has to do with anything, just waiting for someone to call me an r* so I can change my mind again and never finish. Main thing is the problems aren't that hard to solve and they've been done solved. It's ECS -> particle physics for effects -> particle physics/pools. Most game devs use an engine and can't get past ECS. AGAIN idk what this has to do with anything other than lots of big companies hiring people not based on talent. So, try that out.
@@gezenews go finish your project! :D can't get derailed if it's already done 🤔
@@blarghblargh lol and then the the other game OCR. All my ideas are getting cut down by joblessness and becoming more practical. All the things still are on the way but now the mortgage VUE SSR calculator gets priority :(
Anyone have examples with what he mentioned in lua?
Ah yes, McD and Spotify, two companies whose judgement you can trust.
opinion on netflix increasing prices yet again?
Really good correlation with the React stuff.
Most people don't know the difference between risk management and liability shift.
So you have dumb dumb business degrees switching over to companies that lack long term stability and futures.
I use almost every language imaginable, but I avoid nodejs, with the passion, just because of the rollover cycles.
I think the bias that "the center of the universe is web" comes from entrepreneurs who put up sites and call it "their business".
And the web is supposed to be most democratic. Except that maybe it isn't, but lots of people must think of the web of having most ownership of their work.
Theo is sponsored by React
Could not agree more. Do not buy brand. Buy quality if you need quality. Buy bulk if you need bulk.
Yeah, I bet on Microsoft Silverlight way back ago and it definitely let me down. So, no, using Microsoft isn't necessarily a safe bet, although they made it better when they made .Net open source. After too many iterations with different frontend frameworks from Microsoft, that was the final straw and nowadays I only trust C# for server-side development.
The safest choice (not necessarily the best choice) is the tech that outlived the company it was born in. Even though [Nokia] Bell Labs still exists, it is nowadays completely irrelevant to C's existence and we can all agree on how important C still is and how safe it is that it will not go away in the near future.
Do we not have a open source self hosted slack-style platform?
IRC. Though people moved away from it because things like slack and discord are easier and more feature packed out of the box, so to speak.
I mean IRC is just a protocol and you can do a lot with the right clients, bots, etc, probably more than the alternatives, but the more you need, the more complicated things get. The bog standard setup lacks a few things many consider vital like a robust message history.
React is used in MacOS for the settings menu icloud info.
Really? What the hell is the point of swift if they dont use it for their own GUIs
I think the tweet missed the point.... "No one got fired buying from IBM" exists because IBM is renown for their servers - and thus, if the servers cause issues the attitude will be "Well this couldn't have been prevented, we went with the best in the business and hit some issues".
Adopting a commercial communication solution from Meta (not at all their speciality) is the OPPOSITE of buying servers from IBM. If someone makes the call to buy a Slack-solution from ... Slack... and then Slack die... no one is blaming the decision maker... they went with the "best in the business" and it didn't pan out. If someone buys a Slack solution from a consumer social media brand... and they sunset it... the decision maker will have questions to ask about "Why did we even use Meta?"
According to dhh, Microsoft temas is a fair choice, yes they make money from ads but its not like google where 90% revenue are just ads
1:58 well they say if you don't use React you going against the groin.
And they are right in a corporation context.
Single everything principle makes systems sustainable.
Imagine you have a Zoo: React, Svelte, Angular, etc in one company. Yes, it is not hard to find new people who can take the job, butt it is also not easy to do inside work when switching people around when assigning different tasks.
Why devs never think about the future of their code and how it scales in a biger context ?
Cause, first is not their job :) Most companies don't give you time or money to future-proof stuff.
Second, most projects get rewritten or abandoned in 2-3 years.
I am not even sure it's worth it to invest the time and effort for everything to be future-proof and scalable.
Keep your core business logic outside of the volatile tech and it would be fine. Web apps are supposed to be build fast and forgotten even faster :)
'going against the groin' ... ouch ... I suppose that's like getting kicked in the balls.
The difference is react is the most popular framework.
I would be willing to bet if you bet on slack instead of workplace (a relatively unpopular cheaper alternative) you would be safer and take the longest to be forced to jump ship to the new most popular option.
A lot of Videogames do not use Lua for their Ui. But Scaleform/Flash+Action Script
Remember "Parse" from Facebook? same history...
8:02 Guess I gotta use vanilla javascript!
As someone who generates static html and embeds a tiny no-build js for every single project, I have no clue what you would need these big crazy complicated frameworks for. Web could do just fine without 95% of JS we ship.
Poor training. All the training I saw were teaching in jQuery and/or React.
I didn't know JS had classes, polymorphism, constructors, and custom elements until 2 months ago. And this is coming from a guy who learned C++ as a first language.
More annoying than this are open source projects that use contributions to build their product, and then, after using free contributions, turn it into a paid product.
I've been working as a dev for 5 years. Never touched react (:
If we are talking about actual large enterprise applications anyone saying web is out numbering backend is insane. Remember, we are still blocked on the OmegaStar team to integrate with Galactus.
I loved his react tangent
8:15 As a PHP developer, PHP MENTIONED
Bit late to the party haven't time to comment until now. Yes React isn't Meta core product its not even a side product , its inside project made public. The ones who do business and developer stuff as core are companies like Microsoft, SAP, Oracle ...... Somewhat accidentally Google and Apple because they need to provide their stuff for their Smartphones/OS
Called it! Building an OS with React!
If Campfire is profitable then DHH by definition does not *need* your money to continue to exist.
I've been programming for at least 9 years and I still haven't used React, even having made four websites.
9 years for 4 website is kinda you should had more
Man needs some WD-40 for that mic arm and chair. Squeak Central over here
The main reason wages go down is cheap outside labor, whether it is outsourcing to Asia, eastern Europe, immigrants from Africa, Ukraine, Russia, Latin America, conflict in middle east forces many people to move. Many companies focus on that cheap labor, sometimes specifically saying required to speak Ukrainian... why do U think stock making all time highs??
The bigger the company, the more they have to lose by doing something different/unproven. Very few places maintain that culture of innovation and re-challenging thestatus quo once they have grown the cash cow.
React mentioned!
😀
Ask the company if they use their own product. If meta doesn't use workplace, you shouldn't either
You can bet that McDonald’s got a massive discount for being one of the first big companies to use Workplace.
Russian here. Definitely truth.
Many news I read is about some company (russian ofc) got their processes stuck because of subscription suspending and all the rest of that EU sanctions stuff that MS/IBM/ have to follow.
Your video just shows that such treatment is not limited to sanctions but bad in general.
Nobody is safe from being dropped out because of some decisions for the products they rely on. Self-hosted is now not only an option but a necessity.
You should be banned from the world.
Twitter user: "So I'm gonna make big buying investment in startup that uses emergent technology!
To think you would be safer with smaller companies or companies that need your money to operate is not so wise as well!
If there were ever an option of "safe 100% of the time", there wouldn't be any need for risk management.
People hating of Meta for killing a project that is not generating "enough profit" while promoting other products is wild!
There aren't many companies who actually build things to "make the wolrd a better place"! They ALL care about money.
People choose the safest options not just to last forever, but it's a lot less risky than betting on companies that could go bankrupt and get out of business from early stages!
Let's talk about React too, yes, there are other options, but is the entirety of the industry willing to move away from something that proves to be working well for most people/companies just for the sake of "oh, we shouldn't use react because it has downsides like every other language do"!
From the thumbnail: GAFAM
Prime saying os aren't using React. Microsoft now using react native in windows. So all those industries are not using react "yet". React is spreading faster than a man on a chair
Are you telling me that computer science universities don't even teach react? Insane, what do they talk about for years?? Isn't programming = react? (satirical take)
Siri, Where's my wife? I miss her
Microsoft has actually come a long way when it comes to this
Don't my forget the games that still use Windows only flash implementations for UI.
Real devs only use web technologies when they have to.
Javascript is like Python best used in small projects.
I guess the choice of future should be either React or HTMX nothing inbetween
Game dev community use lua for ui hah
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I think React in games is more companies looking for UI or Tech Artists in that aspect and just making do with w/e they get.
I think EA and other AAA game companies like seeing CSS or web stuff if your applying for UI positions.
But was anyone fired?
Hahahah. Web frontend the majority of devs. Lol
Backends
Embedded (ticketing, iot, security systems, printers, modems, literally everything with a chip in it)
Mobile apps
Desktop apps
Compilers
Games
Medical
Vehicles/control systems
Trading systems
Analytics, reporting, Forecasting and so on
ML/AI/gene data processing
Operating systems
Jeesus some people don’t even look around the world they’re living in.
its so funny where i work we have workplace i started there two years ago my account was never activated and now its going away 🤣
Wait, did Prime quit Netflix again ???
Yes indeed. Full-time now.
"Girl! Go Pee..."
8:17
I really like this description of the industry as a set of separated silos doing their own things, because too many people don't see it this way. Because yes, there are many different branches of IT, one is porting Photoshop to the web and the other one is displaying 1 million polygons 60 frames per second. There are also many, many, many companies that are not SV top 100 on whatever list that people can apply to (read: you don't have to chase this *I worked at Google!* craze), and many more technologies than the Big Three of the week which You Have To Know In 2024.
Microsoft is actually the kindest big tech company. Just my opinion.
react still dominates jobs in my country, so i learn svelte and react
You can fork React tho?
technically yes
you can also technically fork the Linux kernel, or whatever browser engine you want
but the problem is, these projects are so huge that people will find security problems and similar all the time in them and by the time you are familiar enough to patch these fast enough, your fork will likely be considered a "too insecure, don't use"-project by a lot of people
@@kuhluhOG that's mostly because it's my hypothetical fork, but have a look at what's coming out of the Redis debacle - I don't see the official fork backed by the Linux Foundation to be sucky long term
GLEAM LANG
I'm so early all the spam sex bots haven't been cleaned up yet
DHH interview make it happen pretty puleassssu
Why do just the frontend people think everything is react? It's almost like... noooooo... could it be... they only ever saw the frontend?
What about React OS? ;))))
Now that's meta.
Sad to say, jQuery is the safe choise
W take
8:00 RoR approved let’s go
Can i do ML in react? sure should i do it? probably not but who cares
Hey! Hey, lets be real! React is never a good choice!
Show me in the doll, where did React touch you?
Cars and no react/web? Let me introduce you to Tesla and whole infotainment systems :)