Very educational video Andrew. The share swap structure is complicated. However, it seems like low downside risk. At the very least Naspers should trade in line with Tencent. Best case scenario it closes the gap and starts trading more in line with its’ asset value of the Tencent investment. Will be interesting to watch over time.
Thanks a lot for the update! Why not just buy both by deciding the amount you want to put in Naspers. Thus you will have 50-50 Naspers ADR and PRX (euro), if you underperform with the one, the other might over-perform and balance the ratio. Just some food for thought. Cheers!
You can add the issue that the voting rights in Naspers are already unequal with a few people controling large stakes of the company. On top of that there is this strange intermixing now between Prosus and Naspers, which makes things very murky. It requires a lot of trust in the management that they act in the intrest of shareholders.
Hello Andrew, good job, merci! :) Where did you see the RV Capital Prosus Holding, the thing is, RV Capital has only 5 Positions (CACC, WIX, FB, CRM; WORK) on fintel and whalewisdom. Prosus ist not included. Thanks for help if possible.
Great question, so I went to tv capital website and downloaded their most recent statement. You can do it as well. You will see he holds Alibaba as well
Makes sense that a 22.4% capital gains tax cut the company value by about the same, since they bought the Tencent at less than 1/100th of the current price; but my question is; dont most countries have capital gains tax? Why would this be a South Africa specific issue?
South africa has 22.4% capital gain tax which increase from 18% back in 2016 and we don’t know if they will increase it jn the future and also 20% divided tax this naturally will make it trade lower than owning tencent directly I have a question…if someone buys Prosus ADR in US, and naspers pays dividends will south africa take 20% and the US also take another 30% tax (non us resident)? if that’s the case I will receive 56% (about 45% discount) compared to dividends tencent on HKE with no capital gain or dividend tax
Hi Andrew, it looks like the share swap paid for Prosus, which now trades on a premium on his Tencent stake. I also think Prosus management may have taken advantage of this latest price plunge to buy back their shares at a great price. Any opinion on that?
So I am pretty confident it doesn't trade at a premium to tencent. I have t gone into the details yet, waiting for the dust to settle and I'll get to it soon. I don't think much has changed though
@@AndrewBrownInvesting Prosus market cap is at the moment 143 bln €, at today's change is equal to 1,30 bln HKD. Divided 0.29 which is his stake of Tencent is 4,49 bln HKD. Tencent market cap 4,04 Bln HKD. If you use the ADR in USD is the same. TCEHY market cap 522 Bln $ / 1,17 = 446 Bln €. 446 x 0,29 = 129 Bln €. Prosus market cao 143 Bln €.
How will dividends be taxed? If Tencent gives a dividend, what happens? If Prosus/Naspers give a dividend, what happens? Does the South African government tax any of that? If so, that would explain the discount.
Andrew I have a question about your link to interactive brokers. If I use your link to which interactive brokers branch I will create account ? I am from Greece. Thank you.
Good question, I set mine up when I was in Georgia, and I still got a standard account. I don't think it matters. Do you need it to be in Greek language?
@@AndrewBrownInvesting What I mean is my account will be with the hungary, the luxemburg or the uk branch ? They have different capital protection I think. Of course I do not care about Greek language.
Interactive brokers, link in the description of any of my vids :) Just have to select the markets you want to trade in when you set up the account. simple
I like Naspers but I can't seem to invest into. Most brokers don't have naspers listing. Furthermore, with the chinese crash it seems pointless to buy into prosus or naspers when tencent itself is trading at a discount anyway. I believe they are like 30% undervalued atm.
you should think about which one you understand better, and then pick accordingly. For me, BABA, at current valuation, is better. Other people might have a different opinion, but it's because I see BABA's future clearer than Naspers. I like how Naspers' management have held onto their investment in Tencent, but I am not quite sure about their other investments. By the way, I own both companies, but baba is much of a bigger position due to my conviction.
I'm exactly the same as Saud, BABA is a bigger position but I have BABA and Naspers now. I can't exactly answer that question, but just go with the one you are most comfortable with.
IMHO Naspers will always trade on discount compared to Prosus because for holding company to get money from the company it owns there are some expenses and taxes. Also, I prefer Prosus because of the amsterdam stock exchange.
Tencent is getting near your buy price due to recent situation in China. If I want to buy a mango, why buy mango flavour ice-cream. It might taste better but even then🤔
Very educational video Andrew. The share swap structure is complicated. However, it seems like low downside risk. At the very least Naspers should trade in line with Tencent. Best case scenario it closes the gap and starts trading more in line with its’ asset value of the Tencent investment. Will be interesting to watch over time.
It will be interesting to follow. I'm starting to run low on cash though to buy more... haha
How to buy prosus in from USA?
@@AndrewBrownInvesting Hey! Appreciate your analysis, how can I buy Naspers/Prosus in US? Quick reply would be appreciated!
Thank you for the video. I can see you put a lot of time into this. Please keep it up! :)
Thanks 😊
Thanks a lot for the update! Why not just buy both by deciding the amount you want to put in Naspers. Thus you will have 50-50 Naspers ADR and PRX (euro), if you underperform with the one, the other might over-perform and balance the ratio. Just some food for thought.
Cheers!
Yep that strategy works 🙂 good thinking
How can I buy Prosus in US? Thanks
Nice video, thanks for the extra information :)
Thanks :) glad you liked it
Very informative thanks andrew
You can add the issue that the voting rights in Naspers are already unequal with a few people controling large stakes of the company. On top of that there is this strange intermixing now between Prosus and Naspers, which makes things very murky. It requires a lot of trust in the management that they act in the intrest of shareholders.
Hello Andrew, good job, merci! :) Where did you see the RV Capital Prosus Holding, the thing is, RV Capital has only 5 Positions (CACC, WIX, FB, CRM; WORK) on fintel and whalewisdom. Prosus ist not included. Thanks for help if possible.
Great question, so I went to tv capital website and downloaded their most recent statement. You can do it as well. You will see he holds Alibaba as well
superb video! please make more.
thanks :)
Makes sense that a 22.4% capital gains tax cut the company value by about the same, since they bought the Tencent at less than 1/100th of the current price; but my question is; dont most countries have capital gains tax? Why would this be a South Africa specific issue?
South africa has 22.4% capital gain tax which increase from 18% back in 2016 and we don’t know if they will increase it jn the future
and also 20% divided tax
this naturally will make it trade lower than owning tencent directly
I have a question…if someone buys Prosus ADR in US, and naspers pays dividends will south africa take 20% and the US also take another 30% tax (non us resident)?
if that’s the case I will receive 56% (about 45% discount) compared to dividends tencent on HKE with no capital gain or dividend tax
Hi Andrew, it looks like the share swap paid for Prosus, which now trades on a premium on his Tencent stake. I also think Prosus management may have taken advantage of this latest price plunge to buy back their shares at a great price. Any opinion on that?
So I am pretty confident it doesn't trade at a premium to tencent. I have t gone into the details yet, waiting for the dust to settle and I'll get to it soon. I don't think much has changed though
@@AndrewBrownInvesting Prosus market cap is at the moment 143 bln €, at today's change is equal to 1,30 bln HKD. Divided 0.29 which is his stake of Tencent is 4,49 bln HKD. Tencent market cap 4,04 Bln HKD.
If you use the ADR in USD is the same. TCEHY market cap 522 Bln $ / 1,17 = 446 Bln €. 446 x 0,29 = 129 Bln €. Prosus market cao 143 Bln €.
I just realized my comments sound rude when I write, it is not wanted, I am a fan of your work and I find your videos very formative.
@@Marco-mp1nr Not at all, i'll have to go for a dig into it all. I'm not exactly sure yet. It'll be interesting to work out
Amazing video. I m in Prosus bcs i preferred to buy in Euros
Makes sense. good thinking
How will dividends be taxed? If Tencent gives a dividend, what happens? If Prosus/Naspers give a dividend, what happens? Does the South African government tax any of that? If so, that would explain the discount.
how does the current crackdown in China on Tencent affect your view on whether Tencent is a good buy or not?
I think it's a great company, this feels like an opportunity. But I'm not sure.
For now, I reckon management has equal incentives for Prosus to do well, as their personal investments in Naspers are tied directly to Prosus.
So both are a good idea, I think if you have euro, buy Prosus, if you have USD buy Naspers. Thats probably enough :)
Where can i buy naspers stock in europe
What brokerage account do you have? If you have access to OTC in the USA you can buy there
Andrew I have a question about your link to interactive brokers. If I use your link to which interactive brokers branch I will create account ? I am from Greece.
Thank you.
Good question, I set mine up when I was in Georgia, and I still got a standard account. I don't think it matters. Do you need it to be in Greek language?
@@AndrewBrownInvesting What I mean is my account will be with the hungary, the luxemburg or the uk branch ? They have different capital protection I think. Of course I do not care about Greek language.
I have no idea, you will have to ask interactive brokers. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, it's a very specific question 😊
Does anyone know how to invest in us otc from Australia?
Interactive brokers, link in the description of any of my vids :) Just have to select the markets you want to trade in when you set up the account. simple
Why are people investing in prosus and naspers instead of buying directly tencent ?
Good question, Essentially you are getting a big discount on the tencent stock through Prosus/naspers
I like Naspers but I can't seem to invest into. Most brokers don't have naspers listing. Furthermore, with the chinese crash it seems pointless to buy into prosus or naspers when tencent itself is trading at a discount anyway. I believe they are like 30% undervalued atm.
What brokerage are you using? You should move to a better one that gives you access to more markets.
if i can only choose alibaba or nasper which one should i get?
you should think about which one you understand better, and then pick accordingly. For me, BABA, at current valuation, is better. Other people might have a different opinion, but it's because I see BABA's future clearer than Naspers. I like how Naspers' management have held onto their investment in Tencent, but I am not quite sure about their other investments. By the way, I own both companies, but baba is much of a bigger position due to my conviction.
I'm exactly the same as Saud, BABA is a bigger position but I have BABA and Naspers now. I can't exactly answer that question, but just go with the one you are most comfortable with.
IMHO Naspers will always trade on discount compared to Prosus because for holding company to get money from the company it owns there are some expenses and taxes. Also, I prefer Prosus because of the amsterdam stock exchange.
totally fair point. I think they are both good ideas
you buy both company for Tencent. Why not buy Tencent directly?
Because it is far cheaper. I made a video explaining the discount. Called 'buying tencent through naspers'
@@AndrewBrownInvesting What if Naspers sell tencent?
Tencent is getting near your buy price due to recent situation in China.
If I want to buy a mango, why buy mango flavour ice-cream. It might taste better but even then🤔
The expected ROI is getting even better :) For Naspers, Prosus and Tencent. Happy days
Thanks a billion
Glad you enjoyed :)
Way too complex for me lol
Totally understand. It wasn't hard for me and I still have work to do
If You want to buy Tencent, then buy Tencent. Buy Prosus/Naspers only if You believe in them.
Why are people investing in prosus and naspers instead of buying directly tencent ?