Really love this. I'm sure they will ban wood burners soon, but this man is doing something. May not be perfect or convenient, but it works. Most people only complain and than laugh at the ones who try to make a difference. I respect the hell out of this.
Agreed. We have a wood burner and I saw an amazing book in the library called 'Norwegian Wood' (like the Beatles song). Its all about proper seasoning, storing, cutting of firewood, and written by a Norwegian and they know their stuff being partially in the Arctic Circle. It also gives the different heat strengths for types of wood, and how best to use wood burners. One really important fact is that wood is actually really clean to burn if done properly -get a good smoulder going for about 45 min with the kindling before adding the main logs and set the vents right etc etc. Yes, all governments should read it.
A law was past that the smoke from a chimney can be monitored, but in that law a fire outside your home isn't included. So, you can have a bonfire outside your home burning any wood you like, even damp wood, but as soon as you're indoors, no damp wood, no wood that's chemical treated, so wood burners won't ever be banned because they're carbon neutral. They will control what you burn because one of their donors will have a company selling wood pellets or smokeless fuel.
Efficiency tip? Make three or four smaller and lighter sand batteries that stack on top of each other. You can stack them on the burn chamber and heat them all at once. Then you can heat several rooms quickly, or stack them up in the hallway to heat the house for a long time.
The " surplus" heat you could coil some copper tubing to heat water and store it in some thermal buckets. In Asia we use those buckets to store hot rice. You could find em at some asian stores in the uk. Water can be used to shower with a simple 12volt pump 🙂
Have you tried adding another lift off pipe to the top of your chimney ? This will will increase chimney draft, burn your fire hotter and, provided that the sand can absorb and dissipate the heat within the battery fast enough, will I suspect significantly reduce burn times, An easy thing to try if you have spare pipe. Great video - thanks.
I wouldn't say you're rambling at all . Sorry to hear what you guys are going through in the UK . We're having our own issues to deal with in the US with rumors of selective blackouts etc ,so videos like yours are becoming very popular with lots of people thinking about alternative energy ideas , prepping for themselves and their families in these times . I like your ideas and the build quality . I'm sure there's ways to improve upon this design but obviously you're on the right path and seem to be open to new ideas and suggestions . If you haven't already heard of gasifiers , definitely look into it . There are loads of great ideas and designs out there which may or may not fit what you're looking for but definitely worth checking out . Cheers from the USA ✌️
Great video Lee. The mantle idea is absolute genius to convert the waste gas to radiant heat. If you used concrete with a rocket stove principle it would probably heat up quicker with less fuel although it might dump the heat in your room too quickly making it uncomfortable. Thanks for sharing! (Just found out clay can store 50% more heat than sand/concrete). I think you're on to something here for homes with wood stoves - I think an internal larger clay rocket stove version could heat water and the room for a whole day from a 2 hour burn!
What if you added bits of scrap iron with the sand, like nails, screws etc. wouldn’t that help to conduct the heat evenly and rapidly to and from the sand? Love your sand battery! well done for sharing your knowledge with us 😊
I got a normal fireplace. Keep an iron pot full of granite stones on top for bedroom, and 15 metal weights just lying on top as heatsink. Will try the sand though! Maybe sand is better than stones?
Don't know if anyone suggested yet, but if you would change the firebox to a smokeless secondary combustion design, you'd increase the burn efficiency of the wood you use. As you said the flames on the top are quite neat looking, but they are also a neat way to show how much heat energy you waste. More efficient burn equals less burning time required to heat to the same degree and less wood used. The flames and the hot air above it is all going out into the environment instead into the storage. As for the storage as others mentioned in this comment section some tubing through the sand inside would allow a quicker release of the heat, but I guess it depends if you aim for heat retention and longer duration of release it might be better the way it is. Unless you channel the exhaust of the firebox through an internal tubing of the storage, because then heat gets more evenly distributed in the sand, possibly making the heating up part more efficient. But I suppose that'd be an entire version 2.0 of the project :D
Agree although a Slow low temp burn like charcoal manufacturing would be more economical. Letting something get to 500deg plus is just wasting energy . Ok that depends on how cold your room is etc . When we’re out of heating oil we sometimes use a small cheap 1800w electric fan heater , believe it or not that’s enough too heat a large kitchen with a hallway and a small bedroom. 2 are enough to heat our bungalow to quite a nice temp . Don’t REALY have the time to experiment with stuff like this at the moment but I’ve just seen a sand battery with an electric heating element in it ran from solar panels . Pretty good . No different than electric underfloor heating so why not use an insulated slab of concrete with trace heating , not hot enough to crack the concrete and could use solar as partial power . Romans used to duct hot air from fires under floors so nothings new really 👍🇬🇧
You're a very clever guy. Good solution since you.cant be putting holes in the wall for a chimney. Nicely explained. It's like a big Kelly Kettle full of sand instead water.
inspiring. I think Robert murray smith looks at something like this idea too. The Finns have a similar, though huge, battery with pipes running through I think and use solar and wind to get the power to heat it up. If it can work for that country then it should work for UK. Wish our government were more into supporting that sort of new(ancient) tech.
loved the project. its come straight from the heart. very clever. now i need to watch part one to see how you designed / constructed the sand battery. i love the natural heat a fire generates but i cant stand my clothes stinking of smoke so the idea of leaving the fire outside appeals to me greatly. (Put a link in the description for part 1... you will get more hits)
I live in a small old house in the Netherlands. I started applying door and window draft strips and pur foam to close up all the draft holes and gaps that I could find on the entire down floor, including the inside doors, and I insulated the down floor ceilings with a couple of PIR insulation boards and pur foam, and that made a huge difference. It was a relative warm winter, but compared to previous years I only used half the amount of gas. And with the current prices that is going to save me between 2000 and 3000 Euro just this year. I really recommend every person to apply door and window strips, because for a relative cheap investment you really get a lot of gas savings and comfort in return. It is truly a huge difference. And once you start closing up gaps you will find even more gaps because they will be easier to detect as your house starts to feel more comfortable. I am not a rich person. So I do everything that I can do to save gas. And I can monitor my gas usage and the average outdoor temperature by the hour, week, month and year. And I can compare previous years with this year, so I have a very accurate insight on my usage. And I check it every single day. I bought the PUR foam and strips from the Action store. It is cheap, but it did the job. Half of the PIR foam boards were 50mm and for free, and the other half of it was 80mm which I bought at the hardware store, but I managed to get a discount from the manager. I always ask for a discount, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I only needed to buy 5 extra boards because I have a small ceiling. It is an investment that might be expensive for some people, but for me it already payed itself back, and it feels much much more comfortable. It is truly worth to make that investment. Even if you can't buy the thickest boards.
Hi Lee That's great! Really appreciate you sharing this as I'd been having ideas the same.... I've just filled a wood stove up with sand (can't use in my location) and bought some 12v 28w PTC 220 degree ceramic heated elements to stick in the Sand and run direct of some solar panels... I'm also gonna make something very similar to your burner and fire it up in my workshop to provide some heat in there before moving it into the house 👍
I'm doing the exact same thing except the heating element is a 3kw 240v unit from a water heater. At 12v it draws about .75a and at 24v it's drawing 1.5a. It's very slow to warm up but it works. If I can find another, I'll shove it in there.
the solar panels are a great idea. not as efficient as using the heat from the sun directly (evacuated tubes) but if you know an installer and can get 2nd hand panels for nothing (easy) then it solves the issues of incompatible voltages (most grid tied systems run 36v panels... most offgrid systems dont). you can go further... nichrome wire will happily hit the 1000C mark. it is used in kilns after all. just need a bit of maths on diameter and lengths. like i needed 30M approx of 2.5mm to hit 16R for about 8A at 240V for my friends kiln recently. x2 for two phases. a lot of winding! iirc... dont quote those figures. it was a year ago. i just got a little 30W ceramic heater for lighting my furnace... it glows red hot, safe to 1000C. shame my furnace hits well over 1600C... im thinking of wind power though. using a fet, you can regulate the load on the turbine to match it perfectly to the wind speed... at all wind speeds. no worries about too little or too much. just dump it ALL into the thermal mass. cant do that with batteries. with an oversized genhead on the turbine you can keep it spinning even in a hurricane and its not going to overspeed. and then? if you have something at 200C plus, boiling water is a breeze... and boiling water makes steam.
You sir, are Brilliant! This is a great solution to use wood-fired heating with a "No Indoor Flames or Chimney Allowed" home / shop situation, which is quite common. Thanks!!
I love it! What if you kept the sand in the house and piped heat to it through some pipes and back out again for exhaust, and you can get more heat from the pipes in the house, and so the wood burner stays outside....? And the handles can become sock dryers.
When camping in winter, placing a rock in the fire then using it to keep the tent warm all night worked quite well. The key is s5eady heat all night long.
For those who don't have your unique circumstances (upstairs flat with no chimneys), this could give some great ideas for adding a thermal mass to wood heating stove or fireplace. Also, if they don't have the stairs, this might be an acceptable option for many people for emergency heating when the grid is down.
Hi Lee, maybe see if you can produce steam with the sand battery - run a copper coil from bottom to top in the sand and pump water in the bottom to produce on demand steam which could be used for generating power
You might be able to get a small propane tank, clean it out, and fill it with sand. Then build a stand and set it above the big wood burner and capture the heat
Great idea. I would wrap it in fiberglass and protect it from the weather, move it closer to the house, bury a large, double wide coil of copper tubing in the sand, insulate it, charge it with automotive antifreeze and connect it to a car radiator through a 12 volt pump and fan inside the house. You could build a decorative case for the inside hardware out of wood as it won't get hot enough to scorch it. You can run it with a 12 volt power supply, battery charger or, if the power goes off, a deep cycle marine battery. You can keep stoking the fire and use it full time. I would make the fire box taller or wider for a larger charge of firewood. If you have an electric central heat unit, you could adapt the radiator and install it in place of the heating coils like wood boiler type heaters do. My son got lucky. He has a gas well on his property that's been abandoned for over 50 years. Free heat, stove, dryer and hot water.
That's an idea,another idea is to run the water directly thru the sand,having inside some filters made of mosquito net to avoid the sand to get into the pipes,just like a pool filter.
@@kuzadupa185 I live in an all electric house but not by choice. My neighbor on my right has his gas meter 1/4 mile away on my left. This used to be my in--law's house. They bought it from it's original owner who told them where the meter is and that the gas company had put it there 50 years before. I'm always thinking of ways to save on my power bill without needing acres of solar panels and tons of storage batteries. I used to heat with wood and have plenty on my land but 11 spine surgeries has put a stop to my wood chopping career. We used propane logs in the fireplace until it got too expensive. My 7Kw backup generator won't run my 4 ton central heat so when we got rid of our bulk propane tank, I pulled the copper line back into the side yard, put a flare "T" and a new pair of gas grill regulators on it. Now, when the power goes off in the winter, if we keep the house "comfortable", we can heat 1,836 square feet for about 6 days on 2) 20 pound gas grill tanks depending on how cold it is outside. Years ago before all this, we tried heating one room with 2 space heaters on a 5Kw generator when the power went out. It powered the heaters OK but it wasn't enough to keep one bedroom warm. It was, however, enough to suck the gasoline out of the generator in no time.
Great work Lee! Ideally you need to capture all the heat from the burn rather than heating the sky.could you have a 2nd stage that you mount on top of what you have? Possibly lighter but you could put it into another room in the house?
Lots of radiators in cars use a ‘turbulator’ in the tube. Basically a spiral to slow the flow and allow a better heat transfer. Could be an idea? Either way it is a great idea.
That's a totally cool idea, I was reading about the project in Norway that is heating something like 100 homes and a public swim pool with a sand battery. So, great idea. I could see that with a few modifications you could increase the stored heat and reach that condition faster and if you could invest a bit you could extract the stored heat and convert it to house heating and return on your investment shortly. I think they said their sand battery is nearly zero maintenance and can work without repairs for nearly 50 years. So, thanks for sharing mate and accept my thanks for your video.
Genius mate. I think these sand batteries have a big future. A German modern electric radiator company fills their rads with silica which is basically sand in a sort of modern version of a storage heater. I had the thought of stripping an old storage heater, taking the electrics out and sitting oil candles/lamp under each updraft vent to slowly charge up the bricks all day then later open the outlet vents and let the heat out. Or same idea with a row of 2-3 ft long cast iron pipes with end caps on them and a row of wicks in a long oil container underneath with bioethanol to create a more instant radiator.
SOUNDS GREAT, BUT Why don't you weld hingesand make a two way door So you could open it indoors???? That way it could work as a conventional heater.. & maybe a small fan on an inclosed box to keep it away from pets... if you keep it as a cylinder to maximize the heat .. as well.. Just a thought! Scale down but make more units! keep up the good work you are Doing Great!
I use a dutch oven ( oven type, not the sort with legs and a handle).......i place it on my normal gas stove after heating it in a 3 section bbq smoker. I use a brick in in but will try sand now 🌹
install some solar panels and then run the electricity down to the house and install a few water heater elements into the sand and use the solar to heat the sand.... might continue your temp for longer and you wont have to burn as much wood except for night time heat. Also just like a radiator, install your fan to blow over the whole thing not just down the middle. take your barrel and turn it into a cover with a fan..
Love this. It works amazing when you combine just a simple oscillating room fan near and it circulates the heat around it distributes nicely. For the small amount of wood used to get 7 to 8 hours usable heat with no accompanying fan, that is amazing. The extra fan seems to add to that time since the heat blows throughout the room.
It seems like a scaled-down version of a HAHSA. Have you considered putting it in an insulated structure such as a small storage shed maybe 3'×3'×4' with a duct carrying air through it and insulating where it is outside? It should require no more than a small fan (such as the ones used in automobiles without air conditioning) to circulate the air. It would probably work just as well if not better. That system should work well with a pair of deep cycle marine batteries and a solar charging system that could be augmented by a small inexpensive wind generator and for the occasions where there was no wind or sun for more than a day, you could charge with a regular automotive battery charger in a couple of hours. This is just something to consider if you haven't already. The entire system should be fairly inexpensive for the benefit it would give you.
Put a stand on top, boil water in a pan, then drop into a thermos. Use it fresh, or to boil in an electric kettle - reduces the heating time used by the electric kettle.
The trick is to extract the heat efficiently. If you had buried 5-6 loops worth of copper tubing in the top half of the sand? You would be able to easily hook up a small external radiator/fan assembly.
The reason the sand insulates so well is there are spaces between the grains that are dead air spaces, (heat travels much more easily and quickly by means of conduction than convection or radiation), which is why fiberglass insulation works as well as why storm windows work.
Nice idea. Try to convert your sand battery to 2 or 3 shorter sand batteries that can be fixed in top of each other. It will be easier to transport from your apartment to your yard
I really like the idea of this. I've been researching ways to keep a greenhouse warm enough to keep plants from getting too cold. Of course along with something like this sand heat battery, a reflective cover/curtain with some dead air space behind it would also be in order to help prevent it from letting the heat just radiate right back out through the greenhouse's clear cover. I thought about using water filled barrels to hold heat but there are some serious limitations to that approach. Water has several ways it can easily be heated, but it can only be heated to just below boiling point of100 degrees Celsius (212 degrees Fahrenheit) before it begins to boil away, whereas the sand can be heated to far higher temperatures. I wonder if it is not too crazy of an idea to use solar to heat a barrel of sand with something like a 3 meter (about 10 feet) parabolic mirror (when sunlight is available)
If you get a bubble cover and pipe a bit of heat into the bubble as well as the green house I've seen people keep tropical temperatures in close to 0 Temps. That's with propane heaters so if you can generate the same amount of heat you should be good?
@@spencerchristie4000 Yeah, I saw something like that somewhere. They covered the greenhouse with a clear plastic envelope and kept it inflated with a smallish fan that needed to run all the time. As I recall, it didn't take a big fan because it really didn't need much to keep it inflated once it was filled... but it needed to be sealed good else it would leak air and not work very well. The air blown in came from inside the greenhouse, but I don't recall that air being heated before being sent into the bubble. Lots of dead airspace and air doesn't conduct heat very well. And with that airspace covering the majority of the structure without touching anything except at end edges, there was minimal heat loss due to so few thermal bridges. A reflective barrier would help prevent heat from radiating away through the clear covers. Preventing heat loss through those kinds of measures would mean not as much generated heat would be needed to maintain a given temperature inside. I was thinking Mylar reflective sheet could be used. Fairly light weight and can be procured in long rolls.
@kenoguy10 For me I've seen it in cannabis grows; There are a lot in my area. I don't know that the heat is generally pumped in, I just know a guy who lives on a mountain and I believe that's how he keeps snow and ice from stacking on the bubble and interrupting sunlight. This is all assumed but I've seen condensation and fog on the "bags" and the snow and ice all piled at the base more as if it accumulated slowly (sweeping v instead of a big pile of snow from banging or sweeping it off each morning) I don't know a lot just think a lot so take anything I say as whatever you will.
If I used that much wood on my log burner,it would probably last in excess of 12 hrs and belt out heat that would warm whole house. Pity I can't fit a sand battery on the log burner. I wonder if a pile of storage heater bricks on the log burner would permeate heat after fire goes out?
@@stephenmorgan7678 They make soapstone wood stoves for small boats. The firebox is of necessity quite small and can't burn for long, but the soapstone gives out stored heat for a bit longer.
Thanks for the video and the information 👍In the UK, overnight energy rates can be a third to a quarter cheaper than day rates, but storage heater costs are ridiculous at the moment. Wonder if anyone has tested a decent sized simple "sand battery" heater for 4 hours overnight (with PTC heaters?), and used to keep a room warm during the day?
If your choking the flue you also need to restrict the air in, this way it will burn much longer and cleaner, it will take you longer to heat the sand but you will use less wood and create less smoke.. I think it would be worth having this installed with a flue type metal chimney exiting either the wall or the roof directly above, you don't need to use the old broken chimneys. I'm thinking bigger gas bottles all the way up through 1st and 2nd floor from ground to top ceiling. I guess the disadvantage of having it installed with this configuration is that the inner heat released would be going up the chimney all night after the fire goes out. You could have an insulated flap that closes but there are always some cinders that need a vent so it would need 2x chimneys so you could close one at the top and open the other one for the fire to finish burning out, might have to loose that inner pipe as a heat vent or find a way to avoid ash blowing up into the room if you did open it once the 2nd chimney was switched in.
It's a simple calculation. Get the heat capacity per pound of steel, measure the average temperature and weight of the "battery", and that will give you the amount of heat in BTUs stored in the "battery."
I think that I would be tempted to have some detachable fins on the outside and paint all of the outside black, the emissivity factor of black (Matt) is much better than silver. Another idea would be to build it with a copper coil inside with fittings on the outside for flow and return (top and bottom) and connect it to a central heating rad - gravity flow, might get heat out more efficiently.
Be no different if not less efficient having a radiator as it acts as a radiator on its own & heat would be lost heating water it basically is a radiator but a 4-600c one👍
@@leejones2511 It's a radiator on its own but increasing the surface area of the radiator with fins would increase the radiant heat transfer to the room.
My opinion is using copper plates as fins attached to the center pipe to evenly distribute heat. But the idea of stones suggested elsewhere probably could work if you used the material supporting railroad tracks. That stuff is made so that it maintains the spacing between the stones. So it will not collapse inside the container.
Love it. Wondering how you get it up the stairs? I've used trolleys with heavy stuff but just a couple of steps or so. I'm imagining a type of slide -like a builders' shute split down the middle made of metal dustbin sections or similar -with a pulley system to take the weight off -weld an eye bolt to the battery for a chain to pass through. Maybe one of those systems for lifting engines etc. The block/pulley would need to be bolted very securely to a joist or something. Just some ideas. Anyway, thanks for the very informative short film. Great to see slightly mad idea making sense :)
correction: an eye bolt (or two) for a HOOK to pass through. And probably need to bolt block to a couple of joists with a plate. I'll let you work out the decorating challenges around that. All the Best. Looking forward to updates etc
Why not add a smaller sand-filled container on top of the blue drum; with the fire- chimney passing through it. Effectively a second, more manageable heater to take into your house.
Thank you yours seems to be the most dow to earth I think I will try heating sand on the back burner I of my stove heat it shut it off and leave it to try and see how long it last.
This is kind of the same thing as taking in hot rocks from the fireplace and putting it into a cast iron pan in the middle of a tent. Thats an old boy scout trick. Cool application.
You should add locking pins or bolts to the handles, just in case a handle slips out. This could rip one of your legs open if the handle pickup hits you when it falls
Yes I so times use the the pc fan to blow it around or once it's lost some of its blistering heat from the flue we put the fan on top & blow heat down the flue so we get heat from the bottom & heat radiating from the body which is very effective 👍
An interesting implementation that works👍. I have heard in old history that the people used large stone as a heater. The big stone was moved to the sun for a whole day and then. A tent was built around it or a stone was moved into the accommodation space. It created warmth on a cold night..
Ingenious idea. I have concerns about too many smoke coming out of the burner. There is some room for enhancement here I believe. But nice thinking though.
Man I Love U Bloody Blokes.... 😁😎 I was stationed over there, Nov 80 - Oct 82.... I think like u. 👍😎.... Just a thought..... 🤔 A cap covering the top during transport..... Just to retain the heat-more heat ?........? Just a thought.... 😁😎👍💪
Your video popped up and as i am all into alternative heat i watched with great interest .The heat retention of sand is a greay medium and will hold heat for a long time . Just my two cents here but if you could get the heat to be more focused on the chimney area i have to wonder if a heat fan for wood stoves which runs just off of the heat below it would transfer it ? That way you could wrap it in an insulated wrap and as the heat escapes through the hole it would be blown out ? I might try this in another form , say one or two pipes running through the sand area ? Love what you came up with though
Excellent idea, personally once you've stopped the fire and taken it upstairs, heat rises so why not get a pipe on top and direct the heat to the floor, just an idea sorry.. keep up the good work!!
In my day, we had a thing called a chimney breast - made using bricks that were heat absorbing. In some houses they even had a water tank in the chimney that could heat your water. All very zen as it was all hidden away behind a beautiful mantlepiece. Can you reinvent the toilet next? :) Take this the right way as tongue-in-cheek, but great and informative demonstration ...not very practical though. All the best!
Thank you for the video. Suggestion...If you create a 'ROCKET STOVE burner to burn the wood, it would use a lot less and create more heat, as the wood is virtually 100% burnt, and no smoke comes off. Best wishes. Tony
Try heating a pan of sand over the chimney will slow down hot gasses inside or pizza oven attachment for top same idea use heat twice 🤔 win win. Loved video btw
Hi Lee, this one spiked my synapses. I watch loads of similar videos on the you tube. Obviously you're not the first talking about sand batteries however have you thought about, considering sand is self insulating, creating an Hourglass delivery system whereby you flip two tanks to allow the sand to deliver heat from the sand to air by way of a diffuser creating a miniature dust storm in a gap between the tanks allowing the air gap and sand to exchange the heat to the environment. the gap between the tanks would probably have to be quite wide and need to use some form of thermal venting that would allow the heat to escape without sand or dust leaving the system. By that I mean a screen or series of screens that allows the heat from the sand to exchange yet the sand and particulates to drop back to the lower tank. When this process finishes flip the tanks to continue fleecing the heat from the system. This way you could manage the heat delivery from the sand and fine tune it to requirement. Another option allow the sand to very slowly drop over a liquid filled heat exchanger and pass through. Full points for having managed so far, I half thought about this regarding rocket stove mass storage thinking portable mass storage such as a 50 gal oil drum filled with labyrinth type concrete chamber as an exhaust for the rocket stove to save the heat and roll it inside house after the burn. You're there already and just need fine tuning. Also a hoist to get it upstairs. Brilliant and inspiring video thanks.
@@medniniimen1246 I'm afraid I haven't seen it, was just thinking about how people for example have re-purposed egr coolers from cars and other heat recovery methods reminded me of the hourglass and if something similar was used to allow the sand to lose the heat in a more controlled manner. I think what I really mean is if you allow each grain of sand's surface area to be exposed to air this would increase the release of heat in the 'egr radiator' if I could call it that.
Rocket stoves are the worlds most efficient wood burner, which captures almost all therms in clay or cob which would be installed in the home. Nearly zero emissions once hot, uses very little wood. You could literally pick up hardwood sticks on the ground and heat your home.
I love it! What if you kept the sand in the house and piped heat to it through some pipes and back out again for exhaust, and you can get more heat from the pipes in the house, and so the wood burner stays outside....?
What you could do to make it easier to move is have the cover be removable, and add stackable doughnuts filled with sand around the flue pipe. Dividing the mass of the sand into 3 or 4 doughnuts would take a lot of strain off your backs.
take a solar water heater pipe collector panel with 6kwh, make a big (much more sand than you have) pit in the garden, isolate, run heat in and heat out pipes through and give that sand the full 120 degC temp from the solar panels, they put every degree they get into the sand.
Hi by the way. All those flames out the top are wasted heating time, and fuel it takes to heat it. A damper keeps most of the heat in, mostly smoke out
Maybe build a couple more sand batteries and inside stands, then when you remove the first sand battery putt the next one on the fire and add some more wood, because you're charging them sequentially it'll take a bit longer but 3 spread out around the house will probably prevent the need for other heaters.
And you could cook on the fire downstairs. Put them spuds on. Also how good would it be if you had a verandah up there so you didn't have to do the stairs. It's a great idea. thanks for sharing
You should think about putting a foil screen behind your sand battery when it’s in your flat. That way you could reflect the heat into your living space rather than heating up the wall behind it.
It's a interesting thought it might be able to be a battery because you seem to be by the sea ,if it salty sand it my be possible to be a battery as we'll ,a interesting video .Many thanks .
insulating the vessel is important. but yes, using resistive heat, placed in and around the center of mass is optimal. that wasy the sand on the outter area does in fact insulate that heat. using resistive elements, the temp can quite easily get over 600c
For a sand battery you would want a lot more sand to heat up. Most central heating systems are transferring heat with water which has a much higher Specific Heat Capacity than sand does (water contains more energy per degree than sand does). The benefit for sand batteries are: a) sand is cheap b) sand is stable at much higher temperatures than water. Good work with the experiments.
But at this size the “water battery” wouldnt be as efficient as this, because u cant heat the water to 250°C (if you still want the liquid) and sand can have 2.5x the temperature of water…
@@hurvinekspejbl6229 I agree, a water battery would not be a good idea. For effective home heating the amount of energy to be stored will need to be higher than this example is capable of, but I am appreciating the testing that is being done here.
I'm currently getting the equipment together for a full house wood gasification boiler and the water accumulator tank needs to be 5,000 to 6,000 litres. I'm hesitant to finalise the design as I think a sand battery and hot water storage hybrid system will have additional benefits.
The most efficient way to use this principle and reduce waste heat coming out of the stack would be to build an underfloor system like the Korean "ondol" the whole floor becomes a thermal storage system. Highly impractical though to retrofit, and the bylaws and regulations would not favor this. But who knows if the crisis is not going to be the norm or get worse. I cant imagine a first world country like Britain is suffering almost third world problems, especially as it is so wealthy.
LPG is a lot more expensive than piped gas. Be careful using un flued appliances they can use the oxygen in a room and kill you with Co poising. It will also create loads of condensation which can cause problems with the structure of the house. Definitely do not use in a bathroom the air will soon be depleted of oxygen due to higher humidity and it will kill you. Did you use silica sand? Use a series of heat sand batteries for more efficiency. You could improve your burn rate by modifying your air intake somewhat. Thanks for the video keep warm but be careful.
I think what you need is a dumb waiter of simple scaffolding against the side of the house up to your window so you can winch the heated sand up and down with a counterweight, and you should separate the sand part from the oven part, so you minimize the weight; the sand tank lifts off and settles back down on top when it's lowered.
Nice project! =) Yes sand is basically a insulator with k value of 0,2 W/mK vs water that doesn't move is 6 and effective k for water is much much more. I would think that for this kind of solution water might be better choise. Of course it's super dangerous if your release valve goes closed :D If you make it taller you will probably have better efficiency. Kind Regards PNE CEO Tommi Eronen
Great project! You know that you have the makings of a great rocket heater there? Maybe that would increase the efficiency a bit with very little modification?
"Sand is an insulator" that is precisely why it stores heat! That whole beach thing is just because only the top has been heated. Do a longer burn (burrow under the sand later in the day) and you will have more hours of radiant heat. A heat conductor heats up and loses heat rapidly, the opposite of what you want. Plus, the more packed the sand is, the less of an insulator it is. Try pouring water through the sand while you are packing it (you will need to have a drain that you can seal afterwards) before you weld it in to the container, this will pack the sand as closely as possible.
@@TheHuntermj See the word "though" and "drain"? That means you don't leave the water in there. But your concern is valid - the sand should be heated with ventilation until no water is left in the vessel.
Very nice idea ! You ould try to use a rocket stove which could be easily fed without any openning of access door, simpler use with continuous feed of fuel.
Really love this. I'm sure they will ban wood burners soon, but this man is doing something. May not be perfect or convenient, but it works. Most people only complain and than laugh at the ones who try to make a difference. I respect the hell out of this.
Hope you stand up against the Goa'uld when the time comes.
Agreed. We have a wood burner and I saw an amazing book in the library called 'Norwegian Wood' (like the Beatles song). Its all about proper seasoning, storing, cutting of firewood, and written by a Norwegian and they know their stuff being partially in the Arctic Circle. It also gives the different heat strengths for types of wood, and how best to use wood burners. One really important fact is that wood is actually really clean to burn if done properly -get a good smoulder going for about 45 min with the kindling before adding the main logs and set the vents right etc etc. Yes, all governments should read it.
A law was past that the smoke from a chimney can be monitored, but in that law a fire outside your home isn't included. So, you can have a bonfire outside your home burning any wood you like, even damp wood, but as soon as you're indoors, no damp wood, no wood that's chemical treated, so wood burners won't ever be banned because they're carbon neutral. They will control what you burn because one of their donors will have a company selling wood pellets or smokeless fuel.
Efficiency tip? Make three or four smaller and lighter sand batteries that stack on top of each other. You can stack them on the burn chamber and heat them all at once. Then you can heat several rooms quickly, or stack them up in the hallway to heat the house for a long time.
Despite the engineered crisis, you have used your creative skills to overcome and survive. Good video my friend!
The " surplus" heat you could coil some copper tubing to heat water and store it in some thermal buckets. In Asia we use those buckets to store hot rice. You could find em at some asian stores in the uk.
Water can be used to shower with a simple 12volt pump 🙂
Have you tried adding another lift off pipe to the top of your chimney ? This will will increase chimney draft, burn your fire hotter and, provided that the sand can absorb and dissipate the heat within the battery fast enough, will I suspect significantly reduce burn times, An easy thing to try if you have spare pipe. Great video - thanks.
I wouldn't say you're rambling at all . Sorry to hear what you guys are going through in the UK . We're having our own issues to deal with in the US with rumors of selective blackouts etc ,so videos like yours are becoming very popular with lots of people thinking about alternative energy ideas , prepping for themselves and their families in these times .
I like your ideas and the build quality .
I'm sure there's ways to improve upon this design but obviously you're on the right path and seem to be open to new ideas and suggestions .
If you haven't already heard of gasifiers , definitely look into it . There are loads of great ideas and designs out there which may or may not fit what you're looking for but definitely worth checking out .
Cheers from the USA ✌️
Greatjobcowboyyeehawfromaustintexas
Great video Lee. The mantle idea is absolute genius to convert the waste gas to radiant heat. If you used concrete with a rocket stove principle it would probably heat up quicker with less fuel although it might dump the heat in your room too quickly making it uncomfortable. Thanks for sharing! (Just found out clay can store 50% more heat than sand/concrete). I think you're on to something here for homes with wood stoves - I think an internal larger clay rocket stove version could heat water and the room for a whole day from a 2 hour burn!
What if you added bits of scrap iron with the sand, like nails, screws etc. wouldn’t that help to conduct the heat evenly and rapidly to and from the sand? Love your sand battery! well done for sharing your knowledge with us 😊
same question :)
Very good idea!
Natives used calcite iron balls to heat pits (from limestone oxidation geodes). Also they use lava rocks for sweat lodges.
I got a normal fireplace. Keep an iron pot full of granite stones on top for bedroom, and 15 metal weights just lying on top as heatsink. Will try the sand though! Maybe sand is better than stones?
@@LisbethSighFehrmann you can store more power into sand 1600celsius melting point
Don't know if anyone suggested yet, but if you would change the firebox to a smokeless secondary combustion design, you'd increase the burn efficiency of the wood you use.
As you said the flames on the top are quite neat looking, but they are also a neat way to show how much heat energy you waste.
More efficient burn equals less burning time required to heat to the same degree and less wood used.
The flames and the hot air above it is all going out into the environment instead into the storage.
As for the storage as others mentioned in this comment section some tubing through the sand inside would allow a quicker release of the heat, but I guess it depends if you aim for heat retention and longer duration of release it might be better the way it is.
Unless you channel the exhaust of the firebox through an internal tubing of the storage, because then heat gets more evenly distributed in the sand, possibly making the heating up part more efficient.
But I suppose that'd be an entire version 2.0 of the project :D
Agree although a Slow low temp burn like charcoal manufacturing would be more economical. Letting something get to 500deg plus is just wasting energy . Ok that depends on how cold your room is etc . When we’re out of heating oil we sometimes use a small cheap 1800w electric fan heater , believe it or not that’s enough too heat a large kitchen with a hallway and a small bedroom. 2 are enough to heat our bungalow to quite a nice temp . Don’t REALY have the time to experiment with stuff like this at the moment but I’ve just seen a sand battery with an electric heating element in it ran from solar panels . Pretty good . No different than electric underfloor heating so why not use an insulated slab of concrete with trace heating , not hot enough to crack the concrete and could use solar as partial power . Romans used to duct hot air from fires under floors so nothings new really 👍🇬🇧
Excellent suggestions. Your thoughts on making the flue with bends instead of straight.
I love your ingenuity. Well done on your construction it is not something I could ever manage.
You're a very clever guy. Good solution since you.cant be putting holes in the wall for a chimney. Nicely explained. It's like a big Kelly Kettle full of sand instead water.
inspiring. I think Robert murray smith looks at something like this idea too. The Finns have a similar, though huge, battery with pipes running through I think and use solar and wind to get the power to heat it up. If it can work for that country then it should work for UK. Wish our government were more into supporting that sort of new(ancient) tech.
loved the project. its come straight from the heart. very clever. now i need to watch part one to see how you designed / constructed the sand battery. i love the natural heat a fire generates but i cant stand my clothes stinking of smoke so the idea of leaving the fire outside appeals to me greatly. (Put a link in the description for part 1... you will get more hits)
I live in a small old house in the Netherlands. I started applying door and window draft strips and pur foam to close up all the draft holes and gaps that I could find on the entire down floor, including the inside doors, and I insulated the down floor ceilings with a couple of PIR insulation boards and pur foam, and that made a huge difference. It was a relative warm winter, but compared to previous years I only used half the amount of gas. And with the current prices that is going to save me between 2000 and 3000 Euro just this year.
I really recommend every person to apply door and window strips, because for a relative cheap investment you really get a lot of gas savings and comfort in return. It is truly a huge difference. And once you start closing up gaps you will find even more gaps because they will be easier to detect as your house starts to feel more comfortable. I am not a rich person. So I do everything that I can do to save gas. And I can monitor my gas usage and the average outdoor temperature by the hour, week, month and year. And I can compare previous years with this year, so I have a very accurate insight on my usage. And I check it every single day.
I bought the PUR foam and strips from the Action store. It is cheap, but it did the job. Half of the PIR foam boards were 50mm and for free, and the other half of it was 80mm which I bought at the hardware store, but I managed to get a discount from the manager. I always ask for a discount, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I only needed to buy 5 extra boards because I have a small ceiling.
It is an investment that might be expensive for some people, but for me it already payed itself back, and it feels much much more comfortable. It is truly worth to make that investment. Even if you can't buy the thickest boards.
Hi Lee
That's great! Really appreciate you sharing this as I'd been having ideas the same.... I've just filled a wood stove up with sand (can't use in my location) and bought some 12v 28w PTC 220 degree ceramic heated elements to stick in the Sand and run direct of some solar panels... I'm also gonna make something very similar to your burner and fire it up in my workshop to provide some heat in there before moving it into the house 👍
I'm doing the exact same thing except the heating element is a 3kw 240v unit from a water heater. At 12v it draws about .75a and at 24v it's drawing 1.5a. It's very slow to warm up but it works. If I can find another, I'll shove it in there.
Video plz? i want to see this.
the solar panels are a great idea. not as efficient as using the heat from the sun directly (evacuated tubes) but if you know an installer and can get 2nd hand panels for nothing (easy) then it solves the issues of incompatible voltages (most grid tied systems run 36v panels... most offgrid systems dont).
you can go further... nichrome wire will happily hit the 1000C mark. it is used in kilns after all. just need a bit of maths on diameter and lengths. like i needed 30M approx of 2.5mm to hit 16R for about 8A at 240V for my friends kiln recently. x2 for two phases. a lot of winding!
iirc... dont quote those figures. it was a year ago.
i just got a little 30W ceramic heater for lighting my furnace... it glows red hot, safe to 1000C. shame my furnace hits well over 1600C...
im thinking of wind power though.
using a fet, you can regulate the load on the turbine to match it perfectly to the wind speed... at all wind speeds. no worries about too little or too much. just dump it ALL into the thermal mass. cant do that with batteries. with an oversized genhead on the turbine you can keep it spinning even in a hurricane and its not going to overspeed.
and then?
if you have something at 200C plus, boiling water is a breeze...
and boiling water makes steam.
You sir, are Brilliant! This is a great solution to use wood-fired heating with a "No Indoor Flames or Chimney Allowed" home / shop situation, which is quite common. Thanks!!
Cheers buddy 👍
That's wild! Ingeniously simple as well. Love it.
I like your effort to safeguard your family. You are an intelligent person. I appreciate your wife's effort to believe what you do 🙏
I love it! What if you kept the sand in the house and piped heat to it through some pipes and back out again for exhaust, and you can get more heat from the pipes in the house, and so the wood burner stays outside....? And the handles can become sock dryers.
When camping in winter, placing a rock in the fire then using it to keep the tent warm all night worked quite well.
The key is s5eady heat all night long.
For those who don't have your unique circumstances (upstairs flat with no chimneys), this could give some great ideas for adding a thermal mass to wood heating stove or fireplace.
Also, if they don't have the stairs, this might be an acceptable option for many people for emergency heating when the grid is down.
Hi Lee,
maybe see if you can produce steam with the sand battery - run a copper coil from bottom to top in the sand and pump water in the bottom to produce on demand steam which could be used for generating power
Possible, obviously would become less efficient for heating, not really for this project but yes could be done👍
I think this is an awesome setup! Thanks for sharing it.
It's great to see an alternative like this.
You might be able to get a small propane tank, clean it out, and fill it with sand. Then build a stand and set it above the big wood burner and capture the heat
Thanks for the update👍
Great idea. I would wrap it in fiberglass and protect it from the weather, move it closer to the house, bury a large, double wide coil of copper tubing in the sand, insulate it, charge it with automotive antifreeze and connect it to a car radiator through a 12 volt pump and fan inside the house. You could build a decorative case for the inside hardware out of wood as it won't get hot enough to scorch it. You can run it with a 12 volt power supply, battery charger or, if the power goes off, a deep cycle marine battery. You can keep stoking the fire and use it full time. I would make the fire box taller or wider for a larger charge of firewood.
If you have an electric central heat unit, you could adapt the radiator and install it in place of the heating coils like wood boiler type heaters do.
My son got lucky. He has a gas well on his property that's been abandoned for over 50 years. Free heat, stove, dryer and hot water.
That's an idea,another idea is to run the water directly thru the sand,having inside some filters made of mosquito net to avoid the sand to get into the pipes,just like a pool filter.
You really put alot of thought into this! Wow! Thanks for sharing your ideas with us!!!
@@kuzadupa185 I live in an all electric house but not by choice. My neighbor on my right has his gas meter 1/4 mile away on my left. This used to be my in--law's house. They bought it from it's original owner who told them where the meter is and that the gas company had put it there 50 years before.
I'm always thinking of ways to save on my power bill without needing acres of solar panels and tons of storage batteries.
I used to heat with wood and have plenty on my land but 11 spine surgeries has put a stop to my wood chopping career.
We used propane logs in the fireplace until it got too expensive. My 7Kw backup generator won't run my 4 ton central heat so when we got rid of our bulk propane tank, I pulled the copper line back into the side yard, put a flare "T" and a new pair of gas grill regulators on it. Now, when the power goes off in the winter, if we keep the house "comfortable", we can heat 1,836 square feet for about 6 days on 2) 20 pound gas grill tanks depending on how cold it is outside.
Years ago before all this, we tried heating one room with 2 space heaters on a 5Kw generator when the power went out. It powered the heaters OK but it wasn't enough to keep one bedroom warm. It was, however, enough to suck the gasoline out of the generator in no time.
I hope you also use PTCs to heat your Sand battery too, so you can use solar to charge the sand with heat!
Great work Lee! Ideally you need to capture all the heat from the burn rather than heating the sky.could you have a 2nd stage that you mount on top of what you have? Possibly lighter but you could put it into another room in the house?
Rocket stove would be a better way to heat it.
Good on ya Lee. Seems like a bit of graft but hey , hats off to you for keeping your family cosy and warm.
Lots of radiators in cars use a ‘turbulator’ in the tube. Basically a spiral to slow the flow and allow a better heat transfer. Could be an idea? Either way it is a great idea.
That's a totally cool idea, I was reading about the project in Norway that is heating something like 100 homes and a public swim pool with a sand battery. So, great idea. I could see that with a few modifications you could increase the stored heat and reach that condition faster and if you could invest a bit you could extract the stored heat and convert it to house heating and return on your investment shortly. I think they said their sand battery is nearly zero maintenance and can work without repairs for nearly 50 years. So, thanks for sharing mate and accept my thanks for your video.
The sand battery Project is at Finland Kankaanpää * Norwegians build awesome grid of wind turbines at the sea * ;)
Thanks Mike 👍
Genius mate. I think these sand batteries have a big future. A German modern electric radiator company fills their rads with silica which is basically sand in a sort of modern version of a storage heater. I had the thought of stripping an old storage heater, taking the electrics out and sitting oil candles/lamp under each updraft vent to slowly charge up the bricks all day then later open the outlet vents and let the heat out. Or same idea with a row of 2-3 ft long cast iron pipes with end caps on them and a row of wicks in a long oil container underneath with bioethanol to create a more instant radiator.
SOUNDS GREAT, BUT Why don't you weld hingesand make a two way door So you could open it indoors???? That way it could work as a conventional heater.. & maybe a small fan on an inclosed box to keep it away from pets... if you keep it as a cylinder to maximize the heat .. as well.. Just a thought! Scale down but make more units! keep up the good work you are Doing Great!
I use a dutch oven ( oven type, not the sort with legs and a handle).......i place it on my normal gas stove after heating it in a 3 section bbq smoker. I use a brick in in but will try sand now 🌹
Very awesome design. i certainly learned something new. Subbed.
I would be interested to see the difference between a setup like this and a version that used some large Stones placed throughout the sand medium.
install some solar panels and then run the electricity down to the house and install a few water heater elements into the sand and use the solar to heat the sand.... might continue your temp for longer and you wont have to burn as much wood except for night time heat. Also just like a radiator, install your fan to blow over the whole thing not just down the middle. take your barrel and turn it into a cover with a fan..
Fantastic work.
Love this. It works amazing when you combine just a simple oscillating room fan near and it circulates the heat around it distributes nicely. For the small amount of wood used to get 7 to 8 hours usable heat with no accompanying fan, that is amazing. The extra fan seems to add to that time since the heat blows throughout the room.
It seems like a scaled-down version of a HAHSA. Have you considered putting it in an insulated structure such as a small storage shed maybe 3'×3'×4' with a duct carrying air through it and insulating where it is outside? It should require no more than a small fan (such as the ones used in automobiles without air conditioning) to circulate the air. It would probably work just as well if not better. That system should work well with a pair of deep cycle marine batteries and a solar charging system that could be augmented by a small inexpensive wind generator and for the occasions where there was no wind or sun for more than a day, you could charge with a regular automotive battery charger in a couple of hours. This is just something to consider if you haven't already. The entire system should be fairly inexpensive for the benefit it would give you.
Put a stand on top, boil water in a pan, then drop into a thermos. Use it fresh, or to boil in an electric kettle - reduces the heating time used by the electric kettle.
The trick is to extract the heat efficiently. If you had buried 5-6 loops worth of copper tubing in the top half of the sand? You would be able to easily hook up a small external radiator/fan assembly.
The reason the sand insulates so well is there are spaces between the grains that are dead air spaces, (heat travels much more easily and quickly by means of conduction than convection or radiation), which is why fiberglass insulation works as well as why storm windows work.
Nice idea. Try to convert your sand battery to 2 or 3 shorter sand batteries that can be fixed in top of each other. It will be easier to transport from your apartment to your yard
Interesting. I was wondering if you could heat a sand battery from the flue of a wood stove and I guess this vid answers that. Cheers.
I really like the idea of this. I've been researching ways to keep a greenhouse warm enough to
keep plants from getting too cold. Of course along with something like this sand heat battery,
a reflective cover/curtain with some dead air space behind it would also be in order to help
prevent it from letting the heat just radiate right back out through the greenhouse's clear cover.
I thought about using water filled barrels to hold heat but there are some serious limitations to
that approach. Water has several ways it can easily be heated, but it can only be heated to just
below boiling point of100 degrees Celsius (212 degrees Fahrenheit) before it begins to boil away,
whereas the sand can be heated to far higher temperatures.
I wonder if it is not too crazy of an idea to use solar to heat a barrel of sand with something like
a 3 meter (about 10 feet) parabolic mirror (when sunlight is available)
Was thinking the same of heating sand with a parabolic mirror. Couldn't find where anyone tried it...yet.
If you get a bubble cover and pipe a bit of heat into the bubble as well as the green house I've seen people keep tropical temperatures in close to 0 Temps.
That's with propane heaters so if you can generate the same amount of heat you should be good?
@@spencerchristie4000 Yeah, I saw something like that somewhere. They covered the greenhouse with a clear plastic envelope and kept it inflated with a smallish fan that needed to run all the time. As I recall, it didn't take a big fan because it really didn't need much to keep it inflated once it was filled... but it needed to be sealed good else it would leak air and not work very well. The air blown in came from inside the greenhouse, but I don't recall that air being heated before being sent into the bubble. Lots of dead airspace and air doesn't conduct heat very well. And with that airspace covering the majority of the structure without touching anything except at end edges, there was minimal heat loss due to so few thermal bridges.
A reflective barrier would help prevent heat from radiating away through the clear covers. Preventing heat loss through those kinds of measures would mean not as much generated heat would be needed to maintain a given temperature inside. I was thinking Mylar reflective sheet could be used. Fairly light weight and can be procured in long rolls.
@kenoguy10 For me I've seen it in cannabis grows; There are a lot in my area.
I don't know that the heat is generally pumped in, I just know a guy who lives on a mountain and I believe that's how he keeps snow and ice from stacking on the bubble and interrupting sunlight.
This is all assumed but I've seen condensation and fog on the "bags" and the snow and ice all piled at the base more as if it accumulated slowly (sweeping v instead of a big pile of snow from banging or sweeping it off each morning)
I don't know a lot just think a lot so take anything I say as whatever you will.
Love this!!!
If I used that much wood on my log burner,it would probably last in excess of 12 hrs and belt out heat that would warm whole house.
Pity I can't fit a sand battery on the log burner.
I wonder if a pile of storage heater bricks on the log burner would permeate heat after fire goes out?
Ive been looking at soapstone,you any experience with it?..its expensive and rare enough here in Ireland anyway
@@stephenmorgan7678 No,but I have alot of storage heater bricks,I will experiment.
Storage heater bricks work great around a wood stove...used have loads round one and stacked up like a pyramid shape! The more the better 💪
@@stephenmorgan7678 They make soapstone wood stoves for small boats. The firebox is of necessity quite small and can't burn for long, but the soapstone gives out stored heat for a bit longer.
@@LOOKOUT2012 any pics?Id love to see how that worked
Seems like this will fit my use for emergency heating the car or tracktor, I will try this one day, thank you!
Thanks for the video and the information 👍In the UK, overnight energy rates can be a third to a quarter cheaper than day rates, but storage heater costs are ridiculous at the moment. Wonder if anyone has tested a decent sized simple "sand battery" heater for 4 hours overnight (with PTC heaters?), and used to keep a room warm during the day?
If your choking the flue you also need to restrict the air in, this way it will burn much longer and cleaner, it will take you longer to heat the sand but you will use less wood and create less smoke..
I think it would be worth having this installed with a flue type metal chimney exiting either the wall or the roof directly above, you don't need to use the old broken chimneys. I'm thinking bigger gas bottles all the way up through 1st and 2nd floor from ground to top ceiling.
I guess the disadvantage of having it installed with this configuration is that the inner heat released would be going up the chimney all night after the fire goes out. You could have an insulated flap that closes but there are always some cinders that need a vent so it would need 2x chimneys so you could close one at the top and open the other one for the fire to finish burning out, might have to loose that inner pipe as a heat vent or find a way to avoid ash blowing up into the room if you did open it once the 2nd chimney was switched in.
It's a simple calculation. Get the heat capacity per pound of steel, measure the average temperature and weight of the "battery", and that will give you the amount of heat in BTUs stored in the "battery."
I think that I would be tempted to have some detachable fins on the outside and paint all of the outside black, the emissivity factor of black (Matt) is much better than silver.
Another idea would be to build it with a copper coil inside with fittings on the outside for flow and return (top and bottom) and connect it to a central heating rad - gravity flow, might get heat out more efficiently.
Be no different if not less efficient having a radiator as it acts as a radiator on its own & heat would be lost heating water it basically is a radiator but a 4-600c one👍
@@leejones2511 It's a radiator on its own but increasing the surface area of the radiator with fins would increase the radiant heat transfer to the room.
My opinion is using copper plates as fins attached to the center pipe to evenly distribute heat.
But the idea of stones suggested elsewhere probably could work if you used the material supporting railroad tracks. That stuff is made so that it maintains the spacing between the stones. So it will not collapse inside the container.
Love it. Wondering how you get it up the stairs? I've used trolleys with heavy stuff but just a couple of steps or so. I'm imagining a type of slide -like a builders' shute split down the middle made of metal dustbin sections or similar -with a pulley system to take the weight off -weld an eye bolt to the battery for a chain to pass through. Maybe one of those systems for lifting engines etc. The block/pulley would need to be bolted very securely to a joist or something. Just some ideas. Anyway, thanks for the very informative short film. Great to see slightly mad idea making sense :)
correction: an eye bolt (or two) for a HOOK to pass through. And probably need to bolt block to a couple of joists with a plate. I'll let you work out the decorating challenges around that. All the Best. Looking forward to updates etc
Why not add a smaller sand-filled container on top of the blue drum; with the fire- chimney passing through it. Effectively a second, more manageable heater to take into your house.
Thank you yours seems to be the most dow to earth I think I will try heating sand on the back burner I of my stove heat it shut it off and leave it to try and see how long it last.
This is kind of the same thing as taking in hot rocks from the fireplace and putting it into a cast iron pan in the middle of a tent. Thats an old boy scout trick. Cool application.
Ingenious!
You should add locking pins or bolts to the handles, just in case a handle slips out. This could rip one of your legs open if the handle pickup hits you when it falls
Should add some cheap eco fans to it that will chuck the air around the room such an amazing idea keep tinkering mate and keep up great content
Yes I so times use the the pc fan to blow it around or once it's lost some of its blistering heat from the flue we put the fan on top & blow heat down the flue so we get heat from the bottom & heat radiating from the body which is very effective 👍
An interesting implementation that works👍. I have heard in old history that the people used large stone as a heater. The big stone was moved to the sun for a whole day and then. A tent was built around it or a stone was moved into the accommodation space. It created warmth on a cold night..
Take care my friend warmer weather is coming back
Ingenious idea. I have concerns about too many smoke coming out of the burner. There is some room for enhancement here I believe. But nice thinking though.
Great video
Man I Love U Bloody Blokes.... 😁😎 I was stationed over there, Nov 80 - Oct 82.... I think like u. 👍😎.... Just a thought..... 🤔 A cap covering the top during transport..... Just to retain the heat-more heat ?........? Just a thought.... 😁😎👍💪
interesting project, thanks for sharing!
Your video popped up and as i am all into alternative heat i watched with great interest .The heat retention of sand is a greay medium and will hold heat for a long time . Just my two cents here but if you could get the heat to be more focused on the chimney area i have to wonder if a heat fan for wood stoves which runs just off of the heat below it would transfer it ? That way you could wrap it in an insulated wrap and as the heat escapes through the hole it would be blown out ? I might try this in another form , say one or two pipes running through the sand area ? Love what you came up with though
Really great job
Excellent idea, personally once you've stopped the fire and taken it upstairs, heat rises so why not get a pipe on top and direct the heat to the floor, just an idea sorry.. keep up the good work!!
In my day, we had a thing called a chimney breast - made using bricks that were heat absorbing. In some houses they even had a water tank in the chimney that could heat your water. All very zen as it was all hidden away behind a beautiful mantlepiece. Can you reinvent the toilet next? :) Take this the right way as tongue-in-cheek, but great and informative demonstration ...not very practical though. All the best!
Thank you for the video. Suggestion...If you create a 'ROCKET STOVE burner to burn the wood, it would use a lot less and create more heat, as the wood is virtually 100% burnt, and no smoke comes off. Best wishes. Tony
Great idea with wonderful potential…
Try heating a pan of sand over the chimney will slow down hot gasses inside or pizza oven attachment for top same idea use heat twice 🤔 win win. Loved video btw
Hi Lee, this one spiked my synapses. I watch loads of similar videos on the you tube. Obviously you're not the first talking about sand batteries however have you thought about, considering sand is self insulating, creating an Hourglass delivery system whereby you flip two tanks to allow the sand to deliver heat from the sand to air by way of a diffuser creating a miniature dust storm in a gap between the tanks allowing the air gap and sand to exchange the heat to the environment. the gap between the tanks would probably have to be quite wide and need to use some form of thermal venting that would allow the heat to escape without sand or dust leaving the system. By that I mean a screen or series of screens that allows the heat from the sand to exchange yet the sand and particulates to drop back to the lower tank. When this process finishes flip the tanks to continue fleecing the heat from the system. This way you could manage the heat delivery from the sand and fine tune it to requirement. Another option allow the sand to very slowly drop over a liquid filled heat exchanger and pass through. Full points for having managed so far, I half thought about this regarding rocket stove mass storage thinking portable mass storage such as a 50 gal oil drum filled with labyrinth type concrete chamber as an exhaust for the rocket stove to save the heat and roll it inside house after the burn. You're there already and just need fine tuning. Also a hoist to get it upstairs. Brilliant and inspiring video thanks.
Hi, i want to ask you where you have seen the principle that you talking about and thank you
@@medniniimen1246 I'm afraid I haven't seen it, was just thinking about how people for example have re-purposed egr coolers from cars and other heat recovery methods reminded me of the hourglass and if something similar was used to allow the sand to lose the heat in a more controlled manner. I think what I really mean is if you allow each grain of sand's surface area to be exposed to air this would increase the release of heat in the 'egr radiator' if I could call it that.
Make paper bricks from mail junk old books junk yard pallets cowdung?
Rocket stoves are the worlds most efficient wood burner, which captures almost all therms in clay or cob which would be installed in the home. Nearly zero emissions once hot, uses very little wood. You could literally pick up hardwood sticks on the ground and heat your home.
I love it! What if you kept the sand in the house and piped heat to it through some pipes and back out again for exhaust, and you can get more heat from the pipes in the house, and so the wood burner stays outside....?
So creative!
What you could do to make it easier to move is have the cover be removable, and add stackable doughnuts filled with sand around the flue pipe. Dividing the mass of the sand into 3 or 4 doughnuts would take a lot of strain off your backs.
take a solar water heater pipe collector panel with 6kwh, make a big (much more sand than you have) pit in the garden, isolate, run heat in and heat out pipes through and give that sand the full 120 degC temp from the solar panels, they put every degree they get into the sand.
Hi by the way. All those flames out the top are wasted heating time, and fuel it takes to heat it. A damper keeps most of the heat in, mostly smoke out
Maybe build a couple more sand batteries and inside stands, then when you remove the first sand battery putt the next one on the fire and add some more wood, because you're charging them sequentially it'll take a bit longer but 3 spread out around the house will probably prevent the need for other heaters.
And you could cook on the fire downstairs. Put them spuds on. Also how good would it be if you had a verandah up there so you didn't have to do the stairs. It's a great idea. thanks for sharing
Awesome 👍🏾👍🏾
Heat exchanger fins to pick up the heat from the sand and transfer it to the moving air would increase the efficiency of heating a lot.
You should think about putting a foil screen behind your sand battery when it’s in your flat. That way you could reflect the heat into your living space rather than heating up the wall behind it.
It's a interesting thought it might be able to be a battery because you seem to be by the sea ,if it salty sand it my be possible to be a battery as we'll ,a interesting video .Many thanks .
Nice work
insulating the vessel is important. but yes, using resistive heat, placed in and around the center of mass is optimal. that wasy the sand on the outter area does in fact insulate that heat. using resistive elements, the temp can quite easily get over 600c
For a sand battery you would want a lot more sand to heat up. Most central heating systems are transferring heat with water which has a much higher Specific Heat Capacity than sand does (water contains more energy per degree than sand does). The benefit for sand batteries are: a) sand is cheap b) sand is stable at much higher temperatures than water. Good work with the experiments.
But at this size the “water battery” wouldnt be as efficient as this, because u cant heat the water to 250°C (if you still want the liquid) and sand can have 2.5x the temperature of water…
@@hurvinekspejbl6229 I agree, a water battery would not be a good idea. For effective home heating the amount of energy to be stored will need to be higher than this example is capable of, but I am appreciating the testing that is being done here.
I'm currently getting the equipment together for a full house wood gasification boiler and the water accumulator tank needs to be 5,000 to 6,000 litres. I'm hesitant to finalise the design as I think a sand battery and hot water storage hybrid system will have additional benefits.
@@SimonCoates totally agree with the hybrid idea, would love to see some videos about it, or just something nore in depth, really good idea. Thanks
The most efficient way to use this principle and reduce waste heat coming out of the stack would be to build an underfloor system like the Korean "ondol" the whole floor becomes a thermal storage system. Highly impractical though to retrofit, and the bylaws and regulations would not favor this. But who knows if the crisis is not going to be the norm or get worse. I cant imagine a first world country like Britain is suffering almost third world problems, especially as it is so wealthy.
LPG is a lot more expensive than piped gas. Be careful using un flued appliances they can use the oxygen in a room and kill you with Co poising. It will also create loads of condensation which can cause problems with the structure of the house. Definitely do not use in a bathroom the air will soon be depleted of oxygen due to higher humidity and it will kill you. Did you use silica sand? Use a series of heat sand batteries for more efficiency. You could improve your burn rate by modifying your air intake somewhat. Thanks for the video keep warm but be careful.
Great!
I think what you need is a dumb waiter of simple scaffolding against the side of the house up to your window so you can winch the heated sand up and down with a counterweight, and you should separate the sand part from the oven part, so you minimize the weight; the sand tank lifts off and settles back down on top when it's lowered.
An idea but it's no problem with the sack barrow
Nice project! =) Yes sand is basically a insulator with k value of 0,2 W/mK vs water that doesn't move is 6 and effective k for water is much much more.
I would think that for this kind of solution water might be better choise. Of course it's super dangerous if your release valve goes closed :D
If you make it taller you will probably have better efficiency.
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But water won’t get hotter than 100 degrees, it would cool down too quickly I assume…
I live in California. Rolling blackouts are no joke. Definitely a good reason to justify operating that guy.
Great project!
You know that you have the makings of a great rocket heater there? Maybe that would increase the efficiency a bit with very little modification?
Great point! 👍
"Sand is an insulator" that is precisely why it stores heat! That whole beach thing is just because only the top has been heated. Do a longer burn (burrow under the sand later in the day) and you will have more hours of radiant heat. A heat conductor heats up and loses heat rapidly, the opposite of what you want. Plus, the more packed the sand is, the less of an insulator it is. Try pouring water through the sand while you are packing it (you will need to have a drain that you can seal afterwards) before you weld it in to the container, this will pack the sand as closely as possible.
If you put water with the sand it would explode when sealed and heated, even if it was just damp!
@@TheHuntermj See the word "though" and "drain"? That means you don't leave the water in there. But your concern is valid - the sand should be heated with ventilation until no water is left in the vessel.
All the best to your family well done
Same to you!
Very nice idea ! You ould try to use a rocket stove which could be easily fed without any openning of access door, simpler use with continuous feed of fuel.