@@bigyellowpraxis I can only speak from my own perspective and everyone is different but I found it easier to listen to at 1.25 speed. People may be more likely to hang around if the tempo of the vids was a little faster. Just my tuppence...
At 69 1/2 years old I was there buying albums when prog rock coalesced. Up till the mid 1960's (pop, rock, soul, western, country) music was 2 to 3 minutes long because that was all a 45/78 (rpm) "single" record could hold. Then the super groups (Yardbirds, Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Blind Faith, Traffic, Chicago, Moody Blues, Iron Butterfly, Led Zeplin...) started writing whole albums of great songs many 6,7,8...17 min long songs that would never be "singles" or had to be edited to be a "single". Then came themed albums or album sides with songs with movements which I consider to be the beginning of prog rock. The two I consider to be the 1st prog rock albums are: The Moody Blues-Days of Future Passed (1967, with an Orchestra!!) and Iron Butterfly-In A Godda Da Vida (17 min) with guitar that hint at King Crimson, Keyboards (synthesizers didn't exist yet) that hint at ELP/Yes/Wakeman and a 2 1/2 minute drum solo that hints of...... well hard rock (not exactly prog); but a damn good drum solo anyway. Check them out and form your own opinion.
I like the Robert Fripp definition the best, who said that prog is not a genre, but an attitude, a type of rock music motivated by an urge to innovate, experiment and blaze new trails. By this definition, of course Zappa is prog, as are numerous Italian, French, German, Benelux musicians who didn't rub shoulders with the likes of Genesis and Yes, but followed the same philosophy.
wow. that's not what it sounds like to those outside of prog. the past 50 years of musical innovation has been thru things hip-hop and dance music using technology to enhance and distort vocals, develop an array of non-instrument sounds in songs, and to heavily sample. prog seems very focused on instrument playing, not innovation.
I was gonna mention Zappa. And I agree he was a genre all of his own. He may well be a contender for a creator of Prog although he was certainly never full-on Prog. But as a musical hero of mine I'd give him his place.
Excellent and very enjoyable video about a major favorite genre of mine. You really know your stuff. I was just bummed that you left out one of the biggest, best, and most important proggers of the mid 70s - Rush. (Aside from showing the cover of 2112 later). Major major players. Can't wait to watch more of your videos!
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed the video. But yeah, I unfortunately ran out of time to talk about everyone haha. Hope you enjoy watching my other stuff. There are plenty more to come too!
I noted that omission, I feel Rush are important because they link with the Sabbath part of the "unholy trinity". While Rainbow arguably progressed Purple. The Zeppelin/Tull folk style is less popular, though some rock blending bag pipes would suit prog, if only formats allowed long complex composition.
Renaissance are a classically inspired symphonic prog band, they aren't even really folk prog. There's a lot more prog bands with stronger folk elements, Jethro Tull being the one that instantly comes to mind.
@thecandlemaker1329 Although there are folk elements in their music, I would agree that they're far more classically influenced. As a fan of classical music, I find their music some of the most enjoyable in the genre.
Yo man, this video is great. You have an unassuming, low key, and astoundingly clever delivery. The graphics you put up are spot on, funny, and still surprising. Well done. FWiW: Genesis Rush Yes
Prog is definitely a thing itself, but it's also a huge influence on other genres. There are a lot of acts that have those one or two songs that might qualify as prog, where they stretch out and experiment rhythmically and harmonically (and lyrically)--in obvious efforts to express themselves and to bring their audiences along. There are also a number of acts that might not truly qualify as prog, but for whom their entire catalog is prog-adjacent. It's made music better.
You are right! Ultimately, I can't talk about everything, and try to include what I can, but plenty gets left out. That's not to imply anybody I don't mention isn't important - it's just the reality of making videos like this. Thanks for watching!
Very funny! I always liked the softer side of classic prog (well, in addition to favourites King Crimson and Peter Hammill/VdG), so would also throw recommendations for Norwegian band Popol Ace and Irish Fruupp into the ring
Thanks for watching! Yes I like a lot of that softer side. Although I'm definitely a big VdGG fan! I've heard of those bands but never listened loads. I'll give them a go. Thanks!
Originally was shocked when Rush wasn't mentioned for proggy metal, but later there appeared the 2112 graphic!! Was fun listening, I love the "pretentious hippy virtuoso shit" of the mighty prog. Your talk definitely captures the essential quality of it, I'd say it was the desire to continue experimenting and pushing the boundaries of the journey sparked off in the psychedelia pop era. A huge difference was the album ruled, not the single, the concept album concept mattered. Thanks for an enjoyable listen despite not featuring music 😁😁
Clever music for clever people, that is why i like to thing that ASIA can go easily on prog: complex arragements within a frame of a few minutes, catchy melodies, and musicianship....and of.course: talented personnel, no matter Wich line up.
The one thing i really like about prog Is How "flexible" It Is, i consider anything from Bent Knee, to Can and Yes and Massive attack as prog, but that's just me
Massive Attack popped into my head about halfway through this video. I don't recall ever hearing them mentioned in prog conversations. Is it the ties to hip hop and the trip hop label? Prog rock being a very common term, are they progressive hip hop? Lol
I 98% Agree with everything in this video! There are two things I would disagree with: 1: Late 60s Prog definitely needs more recognition for its role in kicking off Prog. The Nice, Procol Harum, and Caravan are definitely Progressive Rock bands that had all the traits of early 70s Prog under their belts before King Crimson. Crimson were simply the band that popularised the style among many listeners in Britain. Though you are correct that it's a bit difficult to pinpoint where the first real Prog album was, and I'd attribute that to the blur between Psychedelic and Progressive Music. I've often considered Progressive Music to be synonymous to Post-Psychedelic, particularly in the 60s and 70s, whereas the more stadium Prog bands that came later like Queen, Rush, Kansas, and Camel were more of a 2nd wave of Prog that was completely disconnected from Psychedelic. But both genres, Psychedelic and Progressive, had the mindset of writing more experimental ideas in order to create a powerful force from the music. They went in different directions at the end of the road, but the path was mostly the same. 2: I think many people would consider artists like Stevie Wonder and Miles Davis to be Progressive, and we have a term for that style of more advanced R&B, Funk, and Soul; Progressive Soul. Something like Living For The City is as conceptual and lyrically advanced as Pink Floyd, while having interesting rhythmic and tonal dynamics and changes in the composition of something like Genesis. Then you also have artists in Rap and Pop that use these same modes of thinking for compositions, so they are called Progressive Pop and Progressive Rap. The former I think is what best suits Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, ELO and even late 70s/80s Genesis. The 80s also had Neo-Progressive Rock, bands such as Marillion and IQ, which was very similar to regular Prog Rock in the 70s, but used more 80s synth tones and production palets. While it wasn't as popular as it was in the 70s, it certainly retained a lot more of the feel than what those 70s artists would later start doing, with the exception of Genesis, but also sometimes including Genesis. The last time Progressive music was truly in the limelight, relatively, was the 90s-2000s with Progressive Metal with bands like Queensryche, Opeth, Dream Theater, Tool, Symphony X, et cetera. These bands definitely had hits and relevance, arguably still to this day, even if it wasn't quite as big as Yes, ELP and Pink Floyd were in the 70s. Progressive is simply another musical modifier rather than a specific sound, meant to highlight the purpose and intent of the music.
I like your statement on genres being fluid and unable to be distinctly categorized. I'm not entirely sure what you meant when referring to bands/artists as coming from a different cultural perspective and therefore not being clear-cut prog (i.e. Frank Zappa). Overall, fantastic video. This definitely deserves more views :)
Thanks for watching! I just meant (and I didn't make this entirely clear!) that prog is also kind of a 'scene', and that Zappa was never really part of it. He was always in his own world, doing his own thing, whereas as other (mostly British) prog bands shared similar circles And thos non-British prog bands that weren't in the same circles, and not directly part of that immediate scene, at least saw themselves as continuing or working within that tradition Zappa definitely did not! (But still shared a lot of in common)
@@bigyellowpraxis Zappa himself said that he wasn't prog. He described his music as "variety music". You certainly couldn't pin him down to any particular genre.
I didn't mention them, but I'm definitely a dan. The Snow Goose is my favourite album by them, but I think they had a good run of 6 albums or so that I really like
i would define prog rock as rock that goes beyond rock, innovates rock, and may even abandon rock if need be, but never forgets that it is rock. prog rock is very broad to me. i can even see prog itself without the rock as a real way to approach music. prog is a way to approach music. that approach is to go beyond, to innovate, and to combine several past ideas into one new idea. prog is not limited to rock. blue rondo ala turk by bill evens is a jazz song that combines turkish music style with jazz. blue rondo ala turk fits prog to me. prog is also not necessarily about odd time or complexity in composition. pink floyd music is not what i would say complex in that way. yet it is still prog because they take blues and transform it into something adventurous. they explore auditory concepts that little to no other blues band has done before. in short, prog is progress.
One I would suggest is Tao of the Dead’s ‘You Will Know Them By The Trail Of The Dead.” It’s very Progressive. Beyond that it defies description. Oh, I noticed you missed Captain Beyond - Captain Beyond, Camel but kudos for featuring Magma. De Futura is mind blowing.
Not much on ELP who were as big as Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd throughout the 70s. But then again, prog wasn't a genre until the 70s were at an end. It was all rock to those of us who grew up with it when it was all new...
Hard to argue with any of that. As a musician and massive fan of lots,( not all), of both the progressive element within lots of genres and artists AND a fair amount of the bands that hardcore Prog fans love, I’d say you covered that analysis really well. Your final point is interesting in that members of Radiohead spent time digesting loads of Prog prior to writing and recording ‘Ok Computer’, before recounting in interviews that they thought it was generally all boring 😂😂 “Nothing worth taking away from that genre lads, let’s go and record a three chords and the truth album” Oops !!
I could write on English but, скажу на родном, чтобы проще было выразить свои мысли. Я познакомился с прогом буквально год назад, благодаря своему другу и за это время успел познакомиться с основными представителями. Я бы сравнил эту музыку с головоломкой, она не проста для восприятия, поэтому лично мне приходиться несколько раз переслушивать композиции и концентрироваться на этом действии. Прог это не то, что ты можешь включить в наушниках для расслабления или для того, чтобы процесс мытья посуды или другой уборки был чуточку увлекательней, хотя некоторые люди могут и так его использовать. Эта музыка воспаляет твоё любопытство, ты пытаешься искать в ней что-то и о чудо! ты находишь. Следствие всему этому, что коммерческий успех и популярность обходят эту музыку стороной и тут мы доходим до второго тезиса, который я бы хотел озвучить. Группы одноальбомники, которые появились и пропали тут же, порой выпустив какой-то просто смешной тираж в 100 пластинок.Это так странно, что до сих пор, спустя полвека находятся эти редкие пластинки (например последний альбом группы Faust), мне кажется это странным и вот моя теория - В будущем музыкальное искусство настолько деградирует, что занятие музыкой станет чем-то наподобие кёрлинга, но вместе с этим будет изобретена машина времени, которая позволит ценителям прога отправляться в конец 60ых, чтобы образовывать эти самые группы одноальбомники, выпускать один релиз и исчезать, тем самым оставляя след в истории, но не нарушая пространственно-временной континуум.
Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching. Just remember that this video just represents my views - I sure there are people out there who do not agree with me! Good luck with the project 👍
Excellent explanation about Progressive Rock , definitely the 70s was the gold era of prog rock . Started with King Crimson and then followed by Yes , Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd , Mike Olfield, ELP , Genesis of Gabriel era. To me the best for my likes was Jethro Tull , in the 70s this band was impossible to beat . The two Albums from them Thick as a Brick and Passion Play are outstanding masterpieces, also from Yes , Close to the Edge and Tales of the Topographic Ocean, Genesis with Selling England by the Pound and Foxtrot, Pink Floyd with The Wall and Dark Side Of the moon, Mike Olfield with Tubular Bells, King Crimson with Lizard and in the Court Of the Crimson King. I don’t know what you think about Rush ? , is a prog rock band or a hard rock band ?
I'm honestly not the biggest Rush fan - I would even say that I think they were better when they moved more towards being a bit poppier in the 80s. But yeah, definitely prog in the 70s - those long form songs, with high falutin' concepts. Glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching :)
You should listen to Argentinian prog rock if you haven’t, it’s sublime. You can start with Invisible, it’s on Spotify. I also really like the album Crisálida (by Espíritu)
The toughest and darkest old school prog act was Van Der Graaf Generator. A revolting flower that opened up for some but not for all. Lighthouse Keepers will know what I'm talking about....
Dear Big Yellow, Always remember the dictum of W.S. Bruford: - "When I was young I thought ALL music was "progressive" . . . that was until I heard country."
I the court of the crimson king album gave me the willies!! Nightmares!! I'm 72 and I started going to live concerts in the 60's. I love prog!! 💋💖💋💖🎶🎵🎸🌵🌵👵🐺😎🖖
As a life long Floyd fan I've never considered them a prog band...well apart from The Atom Heart Mother Suite when they showed how it should be done!! :)
Agreed, they’re one of those bands that’s their own thing. Like when Blue Oyster Cult is labeled as heavy metal, pinning them down doesn’t really work.
1. Kate Bush may not have been virtuoso in playing instruments, but she was in singing - she had four octaves. 2. Prog recommends: do you know Curved Air? How about prog band solo stuff like Steve Hackett? 3. Where would you draw the boundaries with other genres like acid rock, space rock, Kraut rock, post rock? 4. Mansun got 'accused' of being prog, especially WRT the Six album. Of course they denied it. What do you think? 5. If you're going to look into genres, and you distinguish between the musical vocabulary or styles and the context or vibe they're put into, what do you think of Goth? Considering there are 8 or 10 different styles/vocabularies that have been counted as Goth/Darkwave and it ends up just being a vibe rather than a style. PS 6. I am among those who count the Moody Blues' 1967 album Days of Future Past as the first prog album, two years before the ubiquitously mentioned In the Court of the Crimson King.
1) Indeed! I'm a big Kate Bush fan, and agree she's a fantastic singer. 2) I do know Curved Air, but have to confess they never gripped me past one or two songs - maybe I should give them another shot? And I have a couple Steve Hackett albums around - I like it, but not sure if I love it 3) Yeah, this is a hard one. I try not to get too wrapped up in genre labels broadly speaking, so certainly wouldn't say those genres are *definitively not prog*. I guess something I didn't mention in this video is that prog also feels very much like a 'scene'. Some bands are proggy in many ways but because they're not from the prog scene (or don't count themselves as continuing that tradition), 'prog' may not be best applied to them (e.g. Can) 4) I only vaguely know about Mansun - I'll give it a listen and see what I think! 5) Goth is a whole thing/set up things unto itself haha. I need to explore it a bit more deeply. I was thinking I'd probably look at psychedelic or baroque pop (or maybe even folk!) next. We shall see. Haven't got another genre episode planned in the immediate future though! 6) I think it could go either way. Ultimately there isn't really a single 'first GENRE album' for anything. It's never quite that simple. I tend not to talk about the Moody Blues much simply because I'm just not super keen (sorry!)
@@bigyellowpraxis OK, if you want to try Mansun try listening to the Six album from start to finish as that is the period that is most considered 'prog'. Paul Draper really wanted to break away from BritPop associations and commercial expectations and unfortunately he ended up alienating his own band as much as the record company. :) While people new to Mansun often find that album inaccessible at first they also tend to end up thinking it's the best thing the band ever did. As for Curved Air, I grew up with the Air Cut album as well as three Yes albums, and it was my dad playing these that got me into prog. They are not in the top flight of prog bands but there are one or two tracks like 'Armin' that I think are a bit splendid. And as for Steve Hackett... he is a musician sans pareil in the prog world, certainly in Genesis. Please Don't Touch is the best album, an astonishing stylistic mixture. I long ago decided that if my flat was on fire and I could rescue the collection of one prog artist it would be Steve's. I could rebuy all the Yes and Floyd later when I felt like it.
@@edljnehan2811 And how do you define art rock and distinguish it from prog? Others have certainly classed the Moody Blues as prog. And they've used "acid rock" outside the San Francisco scene, e.g. Jimi Hendrix and Cream in the UK.
@@edljnehan2811 Sadly your comment reveals you're a bit sad and petty, and not at all knowledgeable. Never mind, it was a long shot that you were going to teach me anything about this subject anyway.
Solar Fire Manfred Mann's eart band. Totaly underrated Prog album. Fine melodies,groovy and kind of Funky. The title track has the smoothest 7/8 time signature in prog history 🤘
You covered a lot but the main thing that separates Prog from other forums of music is this: Average music has it's theme and it just hangs around it with some garnishment then it returns to the theme and then it's over Prog keeps progressing forward with the theme and in time. Beginning, moving forward 🕕the theme, progessing fordwad,➡️➡️➡️➡️ return to the theme and to the end
I may be biased because I'm italian but Italian prog rock was the best. Premiata Forneria Marconi, Banco del Mutuo Soccordo, il Balletto di Bronzo and Le Orme were crazy good. They are the best when it comes to go crazy on the hammond
Respectfully disagree about the first "prog" album. In my generation, the Beatles "Sgt. Peppers" album (May 1967) was considered to be the start of the "prog" movement--then followed by the Moody Blues ("Days of Future Passed" - November 1967). However, some would consider the Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" as being the first "prog" record--1966, although I disagree seeing how they didn't really branch out too far from their traditional roots of surf music. Still, groups that pre-dated King Crimson were "The Nice," "Chicago," "Blood, Sweat, and Tears," "Caravan," "Soft Machine," or Jethro Tull" all put out albums before King Crimson came along and are considered by many to be the pioneers or actual innovators of "prog rock."
I was a teenager at the start of the 70's. Procal Harum's A Whiter Shade Of Pale ticks all the boxes and deserves credit for putting down the first piece of the Prog Rock jigsaw puzzle. Also "Fire" by The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown, and also The Moody Blues. My take on what makes a Prog band or album, is that it rejectes the American influences of Blues, Country, Rock and Roll, Soul and RnB. and took inspiration from the world of Folk, Classical and medieval/Church music. Two of my favourite bands of the time were Curved Air and Barclay James Harvest.
I would agree with your take. Progressive rock came about because people were fed up with playing, and listening to, music based on the blues and rock and roll. After all Genesis was founded by 5 guys at Charterhouse public school. What interest would a bunch of young, white, middle class Englishmen have in music that originated with old, black, working class Americans?
First Crimson album changed my direction of playing guitar as a kid. I'm known as a prog fusion artist thanks to Fripp and Howe. I've played shows with Almost all of my childhood prog rock heros. ❤🎸🎼🎶
Honestly, I say that anything can count as "progressive" in any genre when it decides to push the limits of the genre it calls home. Of course, all musicians do progressive things, but those who make it a point to push the limits of their genre are, to me, textbook prog. I say you can have prog rock, prog jazz, prog country, prog hip hip, prog anything as long as you're committed to making yourself a medium for an experiment.
Very interesting video. Prog certainly will cause controversy among its listeners as to who and what it is because it's a very broad encompassing term. Its musical elements can cross a wide variety of genres making attempts to simply classifying it easily very difficult. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder and Prog may be in the ear of the listener. 😊
The Moody Blues 'Days of Future Passed', 1967, is probably the first Prog. Rock album, rather that 'In the Court of the Crimson King', which it predates by two years.
Honestly, I just don't particularly like the Moody Blues, and think that album isn't great. I can see how it could be seen as the first prog album, but I don't particularly agree
@@bigyellowpraxis All I can say is that I'm 70 next month and was there at the start of Prog. Rock and I have always regarded the Moody Blues as a Prog. Rock band at least for the period covered by their albums from 'Days of Future Passed' to 'Seventh Sojourn'. Personally I don't like Van Der Graaf Generator, but my lack of appreciation doesn't mean they're not a Prog. Rock band. We can't all like the same stuff, I guess, which is fine.
I believe it is an Oversimplification of Prog Rock, no disrespect intended. Progressive Rock is rather difficult to 'box' it all up as this or that, really... I do love you, as much as you love prog rock, too ❤😊
@@bigyellowpraxisHah! That was quick! Oh, crap! I forgot to subscribe... There - fixed. You know what? I'm playing the Spotify playlist right now. I'm a music nutjob. I consider myself a musician by ear. I've never studied music nor had I played any musical instrument, but I'm going to get through that beautiful rabbit hole, just for fun 😊
Heya guys, absolutely love these (not at all nerdy) sorta genre/band/style discussions.. From as far back as I can remember, Ive always wanted to... compartmentalize Prog bands!! To even come close, for my sanity anyway, it begins fundamentally. Proggy and progressive aren't the same thing. I've always associated proggy bands with having a real spacey/trippy vibe. Yno, your Shine ons... your Peruvian skies etc while when you say progressive, I automatically think more arty/experimental. So like everything else lol but specifically more a Crimson, Zappa or def early Genesis.
For me it has always been VdGG, Caravan, Soft Machine, Gong, and all the related acts and solo artists. Amazing. More recently I have discovered some greats like lesser-know Gnigrolog (amazing!) and well-know Gentle Giant (whom I love, especially watching them live, albeit on video). I do not enjoy Genesis at all, sadly, but not for lack of trying. Most other prog acts are hit and miss for me. Some good moments, but no obsessive love-affair like I have with the prog of my adolescence. Feel free to suggest stuff based on my preferences. Thanks! Also, I'd love to interview you about prog on my religious podcast! Get in touch if you have the time and the inclination.
Sounds like you might enjoy Magma? If you don't already know them. I checked out your channel, and unfortunately I don't think your podcast is something I'd particularly like to engage with. Sorry!
@@bigyellowpraxis I understand completely, brother. No worries. Thanks for the tip, anyway; I'll check out Magma. Any albums I should start with or avoid, particularly?
@@bigyellowpraxis I just booked *Steve Babb* from *Glass Hammer* to come chat on a livestream this Saturday 2pm EST. If you reconsider, you have an open invitation to come chat, brother. No pressure!
The term Art Rock was used in the late 60s and early 70s. Prog is a retrospective term. As a musician I appreciate the level of musicianship in this genre. Nektar
Absolutely not true. In the UK the terms prog rock, progressive rock, prog were very widely used at the time to describe the music of Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, ELP et al. Art rock was very rarely used at that time and when it was it was mostly to describe the rather self-consciously "quirky" and arch music of bands like Deaf School, Split Enz, Sadistic Mika Band and the like. As usual Americans can't conceive that things happen differently in countries that aren't the US. So because terms like progressive rock, prog rock, and prog weren't used in the US at the time, they assume that they weren't used anywhere else. The only other excuse is that you're simply too young and weren't around when the music was actually being made in the UK. Because I can assure you that everybody here called it progressive rock.
Prog had its pretentious moments, for sure. None of the double concept albums from the big prog names are entirely free of this criticism. (Except perhaps those by Zappa). In the 80s, those who dissed prog (and oh boy, there were many) said the prog rockers were taking themselves far too seriously, but those same people invariably preferred miserable dirges from the likes of The Smiths (who weren't even the most depressive example) or Jesus and Mary Chain, which for some unfathomable reason was regarded as ever so clever and intellectual. I'm thinking "dude, put on 'Hocus Pocus' or 'Bohemian Rhapsody' and lighten up". The more ditzy "jangly" indie bands might have had a more cheery temperament, but the songs themselves were bland and instantly forgettable. More Dunning-Kruger than Lennon-McCartney.
The tech improved a bit pushed by Keith Emerson of ELP and Mr. Moog. Keith continued to experiment. It would take a lifetime to investigate his continual experimentations in music. Others were in exhaustive too. Hundreds of them attributed to this ‘genre’ but many including ELP tried to disassociate themselves with any category.
If you don't mind your music a bit spooky, maybe try Jack the Ripper by Belgian band Present. As far as the labels go, I would guess that the origins would be at some record company's sales department, helping out record shops by giving them a label to put on the box that holds this kind of record, more than anything else. You can find a wide range of music under any category, but the sales department probably has a good idea of how to group them so as to maximize the chances of someone buying Tales of Topographic Oceans also picking up a re-release of Camembert Electrique (which you might put in a "jazz" box if you were trying to do this academically rather than by sales potential). And back then, you wouldn't want to put anything new in the "jazz" box, because back then that was "old stuff" to a lot of young buyers. As for why musicians object to being labelled, I think that's more because if the risk it poses to future creative efforts. If they're in the box, they can't as easily think outside the box, even if the box kind of says, "This box is for the stuff that's outside the box". King Crimson has shed its skin many times, because once they've done some album that generally means they're done with that idea and are no longer interested in pursuing it, themselves. As soon as the label on your collection starts having too definite a meaning, the risk is it's becoming a museum catalogue entry. For "old stuff". Like all the latest bebop, for instance. Certainly at the time prog began to be a useable label for a new attitude and a new set of guidelines about where music for the masses might progress, being "old" was enough for music to be completely disregarded. Elvis wasn't a King any more, for instance. (Although there have always been revivals, as the new stuff goes quickly stale, itself). If you want to know the secret music your favourite band loves, though, you have to go a bit more underground. To *Cardiacs* - who ranged wide and far before they were suddenly shot down in mid flight. At the wide end (I think maybe I like their wide end best) they had songs like *It's a Lovely Day* for instance: th-cam.com/video/geGdWgP-gi0/w-d-xo.html
In for a penny, in for a shilling or something like that? Maybe for a groat? Anyway, I thought it unnecessary to me to also mention that sometimes they let Jim sing too, and he created some interesting effects. On everyone. *Food on the Wall* is the canonical epitome of this phenom. th-cam.com/video/Nahq4aRV92I/w-d-xo.html
They could also make sweetness and light. For instance they were the ones who penned the line, "If I were a bad dog, you'd all be dead" in *Fairy Mary Mag* - which has been animated a bit and subtitulado into an Iberian language by someone called Plaluch Bon - th-cam.com/video/kanAr4xIlpA/w-d-xo.html
They could get quite prog at times, too. At their far end, I think. Or maybe it's still the wide end. Maybe *A Balloon for Bertie's Party* doesn't have a prog sound, but a minute or two should tell you if my description feels like it fits. It's OK if it doesn't. Tim also refused to accept a "prog" label, and said what they did was "just pop" - meaning the tunes were what matters, I think. th-cam.com/video/z1QlhTzSy7Y/w-d-xo.html
Is anyone else who was young in the UK in tbe 1970s sick of being told by Americans that the genre "prog rock" did not exist at the time and that it is a name that was only applied retrospectively? Those of us who were there know full well that the music of Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, Gentle Gisnt et al was definitely called progressive rock (and/or "prog", "prog rock") in the UK at the time the music waa being made.
I like the prog sound although I've only started exploring rock at all. For me the third self titled Deep Purple album (One of my all-time favourite albums) and first (four or five) Uriah Heep albums are fine examples of prog rock.
The thing about prog, is that it can be anything. Prog is mostly the act of thinking outside of the box. ELO has a lot of poppy songs and it's a full prog band. Yes' Owner of a Lonely heart is a pop song and it's still prog. I think all major bands have dabbled into prog. Tears for Fears' Sowing the Seeds of Love is Prog. Now, modern Prog Metal, is not very prog. A lot of the sounds of the bands are very similar, they follow similar beats, similar sounds and timbres. The thing that makes them "prog" is long songs, very technically difficult, with different movements throughout. But they now do that in a very similar structure. A modern prog band that is incredible is 6:33. They are very different, the lyrics are not serious, they do different things, there's a lot of swing influences and so on.
Yeah, I would have talked more about them had I the time, but I was trying to keep it a sensible length. Maybe I'll get round to them one day! Thanks for watching
Interesting that you have such an early decline for Jethro Tull. Most fans consider the mid-to-late 70s albums as top shelf work, with the exception of Too Old to Rock and Roll.
A lot of non-prog bands from other rock or metal sub-genre can be very creative & successful, arguably many more times than strictly a prog band. Some non-prog bands also incorporate prog elements in their songs. This is my opinion, equally as subjective & debatable as yours. But cheers for your video.
When you say Psychedelic rock, I tend to think of Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, Country Joe and the Fish. The San Francisco bands. And I know that there are people out there who will say that it is more that that, but these bands lived, breathed, and wore psychedelia on their sleeves.
I can't think of any station that would play prog if it came back. We have a couple of classic rock stations but music just isn't what it used to be. ELP is my favorite band.
I was around when this music was popular, and there was nothing called ‘prog’ rock then. There was something called progressive radio which meant it was a freeform format where the deejay could play whatever they wanted and talk about anything. They tended to play album tracks and off the charts type things like Yes along with Elton John, Joni Mitchell, CSN&Y etc. as if it was all just one happy family. The target of punk was not the ‘progressive’ bands but the easy listening and corporate music of the mainstream charts like ‘the Pina Colada song.’ You have to be rich and in a leisure suit to relate to that. Even Johnny Rotten later admited he liked prog’ music. The Pink Floyd t-shirt was his own and he scrawled ‘I hate’ really just for fun and controversy. His guitarist for PiL was a Yes fan too.
I can assure you that the music most definitely WAS called prog rock (or progressive rock, prog, the terms were interchangeable) in the UK at the time. That was how the music of Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, ELP, et al was described. Progressive Rock was a very widely used and understood term. Occasionally it was also used, alongside "underground rock", to describe any kind of album-orientated non-Top 40 brand of rock music. But if you asked anyone interested in music what sort of stuff Yes, ELP, or Genesis or similar played the answer would always be progressive rock. The term may not have been used in the US, but where most of the music came from it most certainly was used. On the other hand, we in the UK had no "progressive radio". That term certainly did not exist. There were no FM rock music channels whatsoever, and you heard almost no rock music of any kind on either UK radio or TV. The only exceptions were the John Peel radio show on BBC Radio 1 and, later, the Alan Freeman show on Saturday afternoons. The likes of Elton John, The Eagles, and 10cc would occasionally get played on daytime radio but that was as close to *serious" rock music as things got at that time.
I prefer to read the word "progressive" in the first sense, actually. I feel the most defining element of a "progressive" piece is that it consists of three or more sections or "movements," and -- here it comes :) -- it *progresses* from one to the next in a way that is either narrative or thematic. That's a structural definition, not a contextual one.
Magma pioneered the genre zeuhl. Have you listened to any other zeuhl bands like Eskaton, J.A.Caesar, Koenji Hyakkei, Weidorje, Bondage Fruit, Ruins, Archaia?
Brilliant video! Can I make a couple of suggestions? 1. If you're not already aware of it, I would suggest you look up Andy Edwards TH-cam channel. He does a lot of these types of video about Prog 2. Please check out the Swedish band, Moon Safari. They have a new album out on December 8 2023. Andy Edwards has also done a review/interview with them!
Good video! Basically if musical genres were levels in a computer game prog rock, going from simplest to most difficult, would probably be the last level - even classical music and opera (high art) seem to have less complexity and 'sub-genres' in them, they're a bit more predictable. What similarity is there between, say, Van Der Graaf Generator and someone like Renaissance!? And then there's people like Hawkwind and Mike Oldfield, who helped create their own genres whilst still being prog too... hey, some of it is even accessible, particularly as we got into the neo-prog era! Having just been to the Prog festival in Sheffield (again) I think it's actually prog's USP - not the musicianship, not the concepts, not the bizarre subjects, not the odd time signatures, flutes or Mellotrons, but the sheer diversity of the artists! And the other thing that characterises prog is something I heard about King Crimson - that it doesn't really 'come' from anywhere, unlike most music.
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You’ve got an insane level of quality for a youtube channel with only ~300 subscribers. Keep going man.
Wow! Thanks so much for the kind comment 😊
Much appreciated - don't forget to check out all my other videos 😉 and there are plenty more on the way!
@@bigyellowpraxis I can only speak from my own perspective and everyone is different but I found it easier to listen to at 1.25 speed. People may be more likely to hang around if the tempo of the vids was a little faster. Just my tuppence...
Prog never died, it simply progressed.
Into what? lol
@@624radicalhamits a joke i think
@@624radicalham (Progress)ive Rock.....
@@624radicalham into a new form we call "polyphagia" or whatever.
At 69 1/2 years old I was there buying albums when prog rock coalesced. Up till the mid 1960's (pop, rock, soul, western, country) music was 2 to 3 minutes long because that was all a 45/78 (rpm) "single" record could hold. Then the super groups (Yardbirds, Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Blind Faith, Traffic, Chicago, Moody Blues, Iron Butterfly, Led Zeplin...) started writing whole albums of great songs many 6,7,8...17 min long songs that would never be "singles" or had to be edited to be a "single". Then came themed albums or album sides with songs with movements which I consider to be the beginning of prog rock. The two I consider to be the 1st prog rock albums are: The Moody Blues-Days of Future Passed (1967, with an Orchestra!!) and Iron Butterfly-In A Godda Da Vida (17 min) with guitar that hint at King Crimson, Keyboards (synthesizers didn't exist yet) that hint at ELP/Yes/Wakeman and a 2 1/2 minute drum solo that hints of...... well hard rock (not exactly prog); but a damn good drum solo anyway. Check them out and form your own opinion.
My best guess for first prog album was the Nice, especially their rendition of ‘America’ .
I like the Robert Fripp definition the best, who said that prog is not a genre, but an attitude, a type of rock music motivated by an urge to innovate, experiment and blaze new trails. By this definition, of course Zappa is prog, as are numerous Italian, French, German, Benelux musicians who didn't rub shoulders with the likes of Genesis and Yes, but followed the same philosophy.
wow. that's not what it sounds like to those outside of prog. the past 50 years of musical innovation has been thru things hip-hop and dance music using technology to enhance and distort vocals, develop an array of non-instrument sounds in songs, and to heavily sample. prog seems very focused on instrument playing, not innovation.
The early 70s prog is basically just post-psychedelia then
I was gonna mention Zappa. And I agree he was a genre all of his own. He may well be a contender for a creator of Prog although he was certainly never full-on Prog. But as a musical hero of mine I'd give him his place.
Yeah Zappa's his own thing entirely haha!
Thanks for watching! :)
200 Motels!!!!
Lumpy Gravy @@ygursivad9921
That sight gag with The WHO was terrific.
Haha thanks! Glad you liked it 😁
And using the 12th Doctor as Bob Dylan.
Van der Graaf Generator, a really underrated prog band
Indeed they are! Possibly my favourite
I got into a prog band in Seattle... Specter by saying I knew vandergraf generator. I also lied by saying I played bass. I play classical guitar.
Excellent and very enjoyable video about a major favorite genre of mine. You really know your stuff. I was just bummed that you left out one of the biggest, best, and most important proggers of the mid 70s - Rush. (Aside from showing the cover of 2112 later). Major major players.
Can't wait to watch more of your videos!
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed the video. But yeah, I unfortunately ran out of time to talk about everyone haha.
Hope you enjoy watching my other stuff. There are plenty more to come too!
I noted that omission, I feel Rush are important because they link with the Sabbath part of the "unholy trinity".
While Rainbow arguably progressed Purple.
The Zeppelin/Tull folk style is less popular, though some rock blending bag pipes would suit prog, if only formats allowed long complex composition.
Nice work!
I definitely would recommend anything by Renaissance for anyone who wants a more folk directed prog band.
Renaissance are great! Good recommendation
And thanks for watching! :)
Definitely
Renaissance are a classically inspired symphonic prog band, they aren't even really folk prog. There's a lot more prog bands with stronger folk elements, Jethro Tull being the one that instantly comes to mind.
@thecandlemaker1329 Although there are folk elements in their music, I would agree that they're far more classically influenced. As a fan of classical music, I find their music some of the most enjoyable in the genre.
Gotta thank an anime called JJBA for introducing me to King Crimson, which made me explore more about the prog rock genre.
Yo man, this video is great. You have an unassuming, low key, and astoundingly clever delivery. The graphics you put up are spot on, funny, and still surprising. Well done.
FWiW:
Genesis
Rush
Yes
Prog is definitely a thing itself, but it's also a huge influence on other genres. There are a lot of acts that have those one or two songs that might qualify as prog, where they stretch out and experiment rhythmically and harmonically (and lyrically)--in obvious efforts to express themselves and to bring their audiences along. There are also a number of acts that might not truly qualify as prog, but for whom their entire catalog is prog-adjacent.
It's made music better.
You never mentioned Gentle Giant in this video. One of the most influential bands in the genre.
You are right! Ultimately, I can't talk about everything, and try to include what I can, but plenty gets left out. That's not to imply anybody I don't mention isn't important - it's just the reality of making videos like this. Thanks for watching!
Take a look at those bands in the outskirts of prog, like Alan Parsons Project, ELO, Camel, Saga, Barckay James Harvest, Supertramp...
I don't 'think' anyone has mentioned Focus yet, so I will.
Great video man. I would love to hear you talk about the evolution of prog rock into the 90s and up to the modern day. Keep up the good work!
Thanks so much! Cheers for watching, glad you enjoyed. Maybe I'll get to that one day :)
Wobbler is a recent prog rock band ive been really enjoying, merry macabre is a good starting point to them imo
Talked to who im pretty sure is the drummer on reddit, cool dude.
Very funny!
I always liked the softer side of classic prog (well, in addition to favourites King Crimson and Peter Hammill/VdG), so would also throw recommendations for Norwegian band Popol Ace and Irish Fruupp into the ring
Thanks for watching!
Yes I like a lot of that softer side. Although I'm definitely a big VdGG fan!
I've heard of those bands but never listened loads. I'll give them a go. Thanks!
Originally was shocked when Rush wasn't mentioned for proggy metal, but later there appeared the 2112 graphic!!
Was fun listening, I love the "pretentious hippy virtuoso shit" of the mighty prog. Your talk definitely captures the essential quality of it, I'd say it was the desire to continue experimenting and pushing the boundaries of the journey sparked off in the psychedelia pop era. A huge difference was the album ruled, not the single, the concept album concept mattered.
Thanks for an enjoyable listen despite not featuring music 😁😁
Miles Davis praise results in an automatic sub 🔥🙏
Great video!
Thanks so much! Glad you liked the video :)
Clever music for clever people, that is why i like to thing that ASIA can go easily on prog: complex arragements within a frame of a few minutes, catchy melodies, and musicianship....and of.course: talented personnel, no matter Wich line up.
The one thing i really like about prog Is How "flexible" It Is, i consider anything from Bent Knee, to Can and Yes and Massive attack as prog, but that's just me
Massive Attack popped into my head about halfway through this video. I don't recall ever hearing them mentioned in prog conversations. Is it the ties to hip hop and the trip hop label? Prog rock being a very common term, are they progressive hip hop? Lol
Nerd prog rockers be praised. I recommend Bacamarte - Depois Do Fim, superb brazillian prog album.
I 98% Agree with everything in this video! There are two things I would disagree with:
1: Late 60s Prog definitely needs more recognition for its role in kicking off Prog. The Nice, Procol Harum, and Caravan are definitely Progressive Rock bands that had all the traits of early 70s Prog under their belts before King Crimson. Crimson were simply the band that popularised the style among many listeners in Britain. Though you are correct that it's a bit difficult to pinpoint where the first real Prog album was, and I'd attribute that to the blur between Psychedelic and Progressive Music. I've often considered Progressive Music to be synonymous to Post-Psychedelic, particularly in the 60s and 70s, whereas the more stadium Prog bands that came later like Queen, Rush, Kansas, and Camel were more of a 2nd wave of Prog that was completely disconnected from Psychedelic. But both genres, Psychedelic and Progressive, had the mindset of writing more experimental ideas in order to create a powerful force from the music. They went in different directions at the end of the road, but the path was mostly the same.
2: I think many people would consider artists like Stevie Wonder and Miles Davis to be Progressive, and we have a term for that style of more advanced R&B, Funk, and Soul; Progressive Soul. Something like Living For The City is as conceptual and lyrically advanced as Pink Floyd, while having interesting rhythmic and tonal dynamics and changes in the composition of something like Genesis. Then you also have artists in Rap and Pop that use these same modes of thinking for compositions, so they are called Progressive Pop and Progressive Rap. The former I think is what best suits Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, ELO and even late 70s/80s Genesis. The 80s also had Neo-Progressive Rock, bands such as Marillion and IQ, which was very similar to regular Prog Rock in the 70s, but used more 80s synth tones and production palets. While it wasn't as popular as it was in the 70s, it certainly retained a lot more of the feel than what those 70s artists would later start doing, with the exception of Genesis, but also sometimes including Genesis. The last time Progressive music was truly in the limelight, relatively, was the 90s-2000s with Progressive Metal with bands like Queensryche, Opeth, Dream Theater, Tool, Symphony X, et cetera. These bands definitely had hits and relevance, arguably still to this day, even if it wasn't quite as big as Yes, ELP and Pink Floyd were in the 70s. Progressive is simply another musical modifier rather than a specific sound, meant to highlight the purpose and intent of the music.
I like your statement on genres being fluid and unable to be distinctly categorized. I'm not entirely sure what you meant when referring to bands/artists as coming from a different cultural perspective and therefore not being clear-cut prog (i.e. Frank Zappa). Overall, fantastic video. This definitely deserves more views :)
Thanks for watching! I just meant (and I didn't make this entirely clear!) that prog is also kind of a 'scene', and that Zappa was never really part of it. He was always in his own world, doing his own thing, whereas as other (mostly British) prog bands shared similar circles
And thos non-British prog bands that weren't in the same circles, and not directly part of that immediate scene, at least saw themselves as continuing or working within that tradition
Zappa definitely did not! (But still shared a lot of in common)
@@bigyellowpraxis Zappa himself said that he wasn't prog. He described his music as "variety music". You certainly couldn't pin him down to any particular genre.
I don't think you mentioned it, but Camel are great! Mirage is maybe their best album in my opinion (though I haven't heard it all)
I didn't mention them, but I'm definitely a dan. The Snow Goose is my favourite album by them, but I think they had a good run of 6 albums or so that I really like
i would define prog rock as rock that goes beyond rock, innovates rock, and may even abandon rock if need be, but never forgets that it is rock. prog rock is very broad to me. i can even see prog itself without the rock as a real way to approach music. prog is a way to approach music. that approach is to go beyond, to innovate, and to combine several past ideas into one new idea. prog is not limited to rock. blue rondo ala turk by bill evens is a jazz song that combines turkish music style with jazz. blue rondo ala turk fits prog to me. prog is also not necessarily about odd time or complexity in composition. pink floyd music is not what i would say complex in that way. yet it is still prog because they take blues and transform it into something adventurous. they explore auditory concepts that little to no other blues band has done before. in short, prog is progress.
One I would suggest is Tao of the Dead’s ‘You Will Know Them By The Trail Of The Dead.” It’s very Progressive. Beyond that it defies description.
Oh, I noticed you missed Captain Beyond - Captain Beyond, Camel but kudos for featuring Magma. De Futura is mind blowing.
i have to do a presentation about prog and you just helped me so much
I'm a simple man: if it is on prog archives, so it is prog.
Good rule
Not much on ELP who were as big as Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd throughout the 70s. But then again, prog wasn't a genre until the 70s were at an end. It was all rock to those of us who grew up with it when it was all new...
Is it odd that I first heard of "The Court of the Crimson King" in a Venture Brothers joke?
Hard to argue with any of that. As a musician and massive fan of lots,( not all), of both the progressive element within lots of genres and artists AND a fair amount of the bands that hardcore Prog fans love, I’d say you covered that analysis really well. Your final point is interesting in that members of Radiohead spent time digesting loads of Prog prior to writing and recording ‘Ok Computer’, before recounting in interviews that they thought it was generally all boring 😂😂
“Nothing worth taking away from that genre lads, let’s go and record a three chords and the truth album”
Oops !!
A couple of songs from the late 60's that kind of led the way to Prog are "MacArthur Park" and "Classical Gas".
MacArthur Park. That's an interesting suggestion. Certainly long and Epic.
I could write on English but, скажу на родном, чтобы проще было выразить свои мысли. Я познакомился с прогом буквально год назад, благодаря своему другу и за это время успел познакомиться с основными представителями. Я бы сравнил эту музыку с головоломкой, она не проста для восприятия, поэтому лично мне приходиться несколько раз переслушивать композиции и концентрироваться на этом действии. Прог это не то, что ты можешь включить в наушниках для расслабления или для того, чтобы процесс мытья посуды или другой уборки был чуточку увлекательней, хотя некоторые люди могут и так его использовать. Эта музыка воспаляет твоё любопытство, ты пытаешься искать в ней что-то и о чудо! ты находишь. Следствие всему этому, что коммерческий успех и популярность обходят эту музыку стороной и тут мы доходим до второго тезиса, который я бы хотел озвучить. Группы одноальбомники, которые появились и пропали тут же, порой выпустив какой-то просто смешной тираж в 100 пластинок.Это так странно, что до сих пор, спустя полвека находятся эти редкие пластинки (например последний альбом группы Faust), мне кажется это странным и вот моя теория - В будущем музыкальное искусство настолько деградирует, что занятие музыкой станет чем-то наподобие кёрлинга, но вместе с этим будет изобретена машина времени, которая позволит ценителям прога отправляться в конец 60ых, чтобы образовывать эти самые группы одноальбомники, выпускать один релиз и исчезать, тем самым оставляя след в истории, но не нарушая пространственно-временной континуум.
Bless you!
underrated comment
Pretentious, pompous,... Pretty great, isn’t it?! Greetings from Illinois!
Well put! :D
doing a music production project on prog, thanks for info , ill probably come back again
Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching. Just remember that this video just represents my views - I sure there are people out there who do not agree with me! Good luck with the project 👍
Excellent explanation about Progressive Rock , definitely the 70s was the gold era of prog rock . Started with King Crimson and then followed by Yes , Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd , Mike Olfield, ELP , Genesis of Gabriel era. To me the best for my likes was Jethro Tull , in the 70s this band was impossible to beat . The two Albums from them Thick as a Brick and Passion Play are outstanding masterpieces, also from Yes , Close to the Edge and Tales of the Topographic Ocean, Genesis with Selling England by the Pound and Foxtrot, Pink Floyd with The Wall and Dark Side Of the moon, Mike Olfield with Tubular Bells, King Crimson with Lizard and in the Court Of the Crimson King.
I don’t know what you think about Rush ? , is a prog rock band or a hard rock band ?
I'm honestly not the biggest Rush fan - I would even say that I think they were better when they moved more towards being a bit poppier in the 80s. But yeah, definitely prog in the 70s - those long form songs, with high falutin' concepts.
Glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching :)
They had multiple long songs (2112 cygnus x1 la villa strangiatto)
You should listen to Argentinian prog rock if you haven’t, it’s sublime. You can start with Invisible, it’s on Spotify. I also really like the album Crisálida (by Espíritu)
Thanks for watching - I'll definitely give them a listen :)
The toughest and darkest old school prog act was Van Der Graaf Generator. A revolting flower that opened up for some but not for all. Lighthouse Keepers will know what I'm talking about....
Dear Big Yellow, Always remember the dictum of W.S. Bruford: - "When I was young I thought ALL music was "progressive" . . . that was until I heard country."
Hah! Very nice. Thanks for watching
I the court of the crimson king album gave me the willies!! Nightmares!! I'm 72 and I started going to live concerts in the 60's. I love prog!! 💋💖💋💖🎶🎵🎸🌵🌵👵🐺😎🖖
For me, it starts with Sgt Pepper, Freak Out and Piper at the Gates...Next !!!!!
As a life long Floyd fan I've never considered them a prog band...well apart from The Atom Heart Mother Suite when they showed how it should be done!!
:)
Agreed, they’re one of those bands that’s their own thing. Like when Blue Oyster Cult is labeled as heavy metal, pinning them down doesn’t really work.
1. Kate Bush may not have been virtuoso in playing instruments, but she was in singing - she had four octaves.
2. Prog recommends: do you know Curved Air? How about prog band solo stuff like Steve Hackett?
3. Where would you draw the boundaries with other genres like acid rock, space rock, Kraut rock, post rock?
4. Mansun got 'accused' of being prog, especially WRT the Six album. Of course they denied it. What do you think?
5. If you're going to look into genres, and you distinguish between the musical vocabulary or styles and the context or vibe they're put into, what do you think of Goth? Considering there are 8 or 10 different styles/vocabularies that have been counted as Goth/Darkwave and it ends up just being a vibe rather than a style.
PS 6. I am among those who count the Moody Blues' 1967 album Days of Future Past as the first prog album, two years before the ubiquitously mentioned In the Court of the Crimson King.
1) Indeed! I'm a big Kate Bush fan, and agree she's a fantastic singer.
2) I do know Curved Air, but have to confess they never gripped me past one or two songs - maybe I should give them another shot? And I have a couple Steve Hackett albums around - I like it, but not sure if I love it
3) Yeah, this is a hard one. I try not to get too wrapped up in genre labels broadly speaking, so certainly wouldn't say those genres are *definitively not prog*. I guess something I didn't mention in this video is that prog also feels very much like a 'scene'. Some bands are proggy in many ways but because they're not from the prog scene (or don't count themselves as continuing that tradition), 'prog' may not be best applied to them (e.g. Can)
4) I only vaguely know about Mansun - I'll give it a listen and see what I think!
5) Goth is a whole thing/set up things unto itself haha. I need to explore it a bit more deeply. I was thinking I'd probably look at psychedelic or baroque pop (or maybe even folk!) next. We shall see. Haven't got another genre episode planned in the immediate future though!
6) I think it could go either way. Ultimately there isn't really a single 'first GENRE album' for anything. It's never quite that simple. I tend not to talk about the Moody Blues much simply because I'm just not super keen (sorry!)
@@bigyellowpraxis OK, if you want to try Mansun try listening to the Six album from start to finish as that is the period that is most considered 'prog'. Paul Draper really wanted to break away from BritPop associations and commercial expectations and unfortunately he ended up alienating his own band as much as the record company. :) While people new to Mansun often find that album inaccessible at first they also tend to end up thinking it's the best thing the band ever did.
As for Curved Air, I grew up with the Air Cut album as well as three Yes albums, and it was my dad playing these that got me into prog. They are not in the top flight of prog bands but there are one or two tracks like 'Armin' that I think are a bit splendid.
And as for Steve Hackett... he is a musician sans pareil in the prog world, certainly in Genesis. Please Don't Touch is the best album, an astonishing stylistic mixture. I long ago decided that if my flat was on fire and I could rescue the collection of one prog artist it would be Steve's. I could rebuy all the Yes and Floyd later when I felt like it.
@@edljnehan2811 And how do you define art rock and distinguish it from prog? Others have certainly classed the Moody Blues as prog.
And they've used "acid rock" outside the San Francisco scene, e.g. Jimi Hendrix and Cream in the UK.
@@edljnehan2811 Sadly your comment reveals you're a bit sad and petty, and not at all knowledgeable. Never mind, it was a long shot that you were going to teach me anything about this subject anyway.
Power and the Glory by Gentile Giant
Gentle Giant was a major omission, IMO.
Gentle Giant: My Fave! Also, they did one punk song: "Betcha Thought We Couldn't Do It", from The Missing Piece
got into prog at 14 or 15 years old, back in the early 70's...
The Nice (featuring Keith Emerson) were doing prog in 1968.
Solar Fire Manfred Mann's eart band.
Totaly underrated Prog album.
Fine melodies,groovy and kind of Funky.
The title track has the smoothest 7/8 time signature in prog history 🤘
You covered a lot but the main thing that separates Prog from other forums of music is this:
Average music has it's theme and it just hangs around it with some garnishment then it returns to the theme and then it's over
Prog keeps progressing forward with the theme and in time.
Beginning, moving forward 🕕the theme, progessing fordwad,➡️➡️➡️➡️ return to the theme and to the end
I may be biased because I'm italian but Italian prog rock was the best. Premiata Forneria Marconi, Banco del Mutuo Soccordo, il Balletto di Bronzo and Le Orme were crazy good. They are the best when it comes to go crazy on the hammond
Well done!!!
did he just use the World Health Org logo to represent The Who..... the hell.... lmaooo!!!
THANK YOU for paying enough attention to get my stupid little jokes :)
Respectfully disagree about the first "prog" album. In my generation, the Beatles "Sgt. Peppers" album (May 1967) was considered to be the start of the "prog" movement--then followed by the Moody Blues ("Days of Future Passed" - November 1967). However, some would consider the Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" as being the first "prog" record--1966, although I disagree seeing how they didn't really branch out too far from their traditional roots of surf music. Still, groups that pre-dated King Crimson were "The Nice," "Chicago," "Blood, Sweat, and Tears," "Caravan," "Soft Machine," or Jethro Tull" all put out albums before King Crimson came along and are considered by many to be the pioneers or actual innovators of "prog rock."
I was a teenager at the start of the 70's.
Procal Harum's A Whiter Shade Of Pale ticks all the boxes and deserves credit for putting down the first piece of the Prog Rock jigsaw puzzle. Also "Fire" by The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown, and also The Moody Blues.
My take on what makes a Prog band or album, is that it rejectes the American influences of Blues, Country, Rock and Roll, Soul and RnB. and took inspiration from the world of Folk, Classical and medieval/Church music.
Two of my favourite bands of the time were Curved Air and Barclay James Harvest.
I would agree with your take. Progressive rock came about because people were fed up with playing, and listening to, music based on the blues and rock and roll. After all Genesis was founded by 5 guys at Charterhouse public school. What interest would a bunch of young, white, middle class Englishmen have in music that originated with old, black, working class Americans?
First Crimson album changed my direction of playing guitar as a kid. I'm known as a prog fusion artist thanks to Fripp and Howe. I've played shows with Almost all of my childhood prog rock heros. ❤🎸🎼🎶
Would love to hear you talk more about caravan! Was glad to hear you mention them
Honestly, I say that anything can count as "progressive" in any genre when it decides to push the limits of the genre it calls home. Of course, all musicians do progressive things, but those who make it a point to push the limits of their genre are, to me, textbook prog. I say you can have prog rock, prog jazz, prog country, prog hip hip, prog anything as long as you're committed to making yourself a medium for an experiment.
I guess Kate Bush could be seen as prog pop, maybe!
Yeah, definitely :) thanks for watching
Very interesting video. Prog certainly will cause controversy among its listeners as to who and what it is because it's a very broad encompassing term. Its musical elements can cross a wide variety of genres making attempts to simply classifying it easily very difficult. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder and Prog may be in the ear of the listener. 😊
I saw what you did there! Dewey rules!❤️
The Moody Blues 'Days of Future Passed', 1967, is probably the first Prog. Rock album, rather that 'In the Court of the Crimson King', which it predates by two years.
Honestly, I just don't particularly like the Moody Blues, and think that album isn't great. I can see how it could be seen as the first prog album, but I don't particularly agree
@@bigyellowpraxis All I can say is that I'm 70 next month and was there at the start of Prog. Rock and I have always regarded the Moody Blues as a Prog. Rock band at least for the period covered by their albums from 'Days of Future Passed' to 'Seventh Sojourn'. Personally I don't like Van Der Graaf Generator, but my lack of appreciation doesn't mean they're not a Prog. Rock band. We can't all like the same stuff, I guess, which is fine.
I believe it is an Oversimplification of Prog Rock, no disrespect intended.
Progressive Rock is rather difficult to 'box' it all up as this or that, really...
I do love you, as much as you love prog rock, too ❤😊
Oh yes, it is 100% an oversimplification! But I did my best in the limited time I had haha. Thanks for watching, and thanks for the kind comments ❤️
@@bigyellowpraxisHah! That was quick!
Oh, crap! I forgot to subscribe... There - fixed.
You know what? I'm playing the Spotify playlist right now.
I'm a music nutjob.
I consider myself a musician by ear.
I've never studied music nor had I played any musical instrument, but I'm going to get through that beautiful rabbit hole, just for fun 😊
@@TheDailyMemesShow thanks for subscribing 😎 hope you enjoy my channel!
Heya guys, absolutely love these (not at all nerdy) sorta genre/band/style discussions.. From as far back as I can remember, Ive always wanted to... compartmentalize Prog bands!! To even come close, for my sanity anyway, it begins fundamentally. Proggy and progressive aren't the same thing. I've always associated proggy bands with having a real spacey/trippy vibe. Yno, your Shine ons... your Peruvian skies etc while when you say progressive, I automatically think more arty/experimental. So like everything else lol but specifically more a Crimson, Zappa or def early Genesis.
Thanks for watching - glad you liked the video :)
For me it has always been VdGG, Caravan, Soft Machine, Gong, and all the related acts and solo artists. Amazing. More recently I have discovered some greats like lesser-know Gnigrolog (amazing!) and well-know Gentle Giant (whom I love, especially watching them live, albeit on video). I do not enjoy Genesis at all, sadly, but not for lack of trying. Most other prog acts are hit and miss for me. Some good moments, but no obsessive love-affair like I have with the prog of my adolescence. Feel free to suggest stuff based on my preferences. Thanks!
Also, I'd love to interview you about prog on my religious podcast! Get in touch if you have the time and the inclination.
Sounds like you might enjoy Magma? If you don't already know them.
I checked out your channel, and unfortunately I don't think your podcast is something I'd particularly like to engage with. Sorry!
@@bigyellowpraxis I understand completely, brother. No worries. Thanks for the tip, anyway; I'll check out Magma. Any albums I should start with or avoid, particularly?
@@bigyellowpraxis I just booked *Steve Babb* from *Glass Hammer* to come chat on a livestream this Saturday 2pm EST. If you reconsider, you have an open invitation to come chat, brother. No pressure!
Kansas... Prairie Prog...my personal favorite
This helped me a lot! I have to research a few music genres that are a bit similar, so this helps a lot!
Prog is a Baroque form of psychedelic rock, Which is fairly baroque already.
Great way to put it! Thanks for watching
Pretty much.
The term Art Rock was used in the late 60s and early 70s. Prog is a retrospective term. As a musician I appreciate the level of musicianship in this genre. Nektar
Absolutely not true. In the UK the terms prog rock, progressive rock, prog were very widely used at the time to describe the music of Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, ELP et al. Art rock was very rarely used at that time and when it was it was mostly to describe the rather self-consciously "quirky" and arch music of bands like Deaf School, Split Enz, Sadistic Mika Band and the like.
As usual Americans can't conceive that things happen differently in countries that aren't the US. So because terms like progressive rock, prog rock, and prog weren't used in the US at the time, they assume that they weren't used anywhere else. The only other excuse is that you're simply too young and weren't around when the music was actually being made in the UK. Because I can assure you that everybody here called it progressive rock.
@@peterfitton4529 the first part of your response is appreciated.
Actually indie rock is the most pretentious genre. Prog rock is just a bunch of nerds having fun 😎
Prog had its pretentious moments, for sure. None of the double concept albums from the big prog names are entirely free of this criticism. (Except perhaps those by Zappa).
In the 80s, those who dissed prog (and oh boy, there were many) said the prog rockers were taking themselves far too seriously, but those same people invariably preferred miserable dirges from the likes of The Smiths (who weren't even the most depressive example) or Jesus and Mary Chain, which for some unfathomable reason was regarded as ever so clever and intellectual.
I'm thinking "dude, put on 'Hocus Pocus' or 'Bohemian Rhapsody' and lighten up".
The more ditzy "jangly" indie bands might have had a more cheery temperament, but the songs themselves were bland and instantly forgettable. More Dunning-Kruger than Lennon-McCartney.
Nice video
There's a band Khan with Steve hillage and dave stewart with just one album called space shanty highly recommend giving it a listen
The tech improved a bit pushed by Keith Emerson of ELP and Mr. Moog. Keith continued to experiment. It would take a lifetime to investigate his continual experimentations in music. Others were in exhaustive too. Hundreds of them attributed to this ‘genre’ but many including ELP tried to disassociate themselves with any category.
Love the video. But Cream was very much at the forefront as well.. as well as some others you didnt mention.. how about a part 2? :)
lets not forget Amon Dull,Can!! hawkwind.........! I luv magma Thanks for mentioning them!
Magma are one of my faves! thanks for watching
@@bigyellowpraxis Cool! I saw them liv S.f About 10 years back, gela B afria introduced them!
Great Analysis!
Thanks! :)
1. Lateralus
2. Ænima
3. 10000 Days
If you don't mind your music a bit spooky, maybe try Jack the Ripper by Belgian band Present.
As far as the labels go, I would guess that the origins would be at some record company's sales department, helping out record shops by giving them a label to put on the box that holds this kind of record, more than anything else. You can find a wide range of music under any category, but the sales department probably has a good idea of how to group them so as to maximize the chances of someone buying Tales of Topographic Oceans also picking up a re-release of Camembert Electrique (which you might put in a "jazz" box if you were trying to do this academically rather than by sales potential).
And back then, you wouldn't want to put anything new in the "jazz" box, because back then that was "old stuff" to a lot of young buyers.
As for why musicians object to being labelled, I think that's more because if the risk it poses to future creative efforts. If they're in the box, they can't as easily think outside the box, even if the box kind of says, "This box is for the stuff that's outside the box". King Crimson has shed its skin many times, because once they've done some album that generally means they're done with that idea and are no longer interested in pursuing it, themselves. As soon as the label on your collection starts having too definite a meaning, the risk is it's becoming a museum catalogue entry.
For "old stuff". Like all the latest bebop, for instance. Certainly at the time prog began to be a useable label for a new attitude and a new set of guidelines about where music for the masses might progress, being "old" was enough for music to be completely disregarded. Elvis wasn't a King any more, for instance. (Although there have always been revivals, as the new stuff goes quickly stale, itself).
If you want to know the secret music your favourite band loves, though, you have to go a bit more underground. To *Cardiacs* - who ranged wide and far before they were suddenly shot down in mid flight. At the wide end (I think maybe I like their wide end best) they had songs like *It's a Lovely Day* for instance: th-cam.com/video/geGdWgP-gi0/w-d-xo.html
In for a penny, in for a shilling or something like that? Maybe for a groat? Anyway, I thought it unnecessary to me to also mention that sometimes they let Jim sing too, and he created some interesting effects. On everyone. *Food on the Wall* is the canonical epitome of this phenom. th-cam.com/video/Nahq4aRV92I/w-d-xo.html
They could also make sweetness and light. For instance they were the ones who penned the line, "If I were a bad dog, you'd all be dead" in *Fairy Mary Mag* - which has been animated a bit and subtitulado into an Iberian language by someone called Plaluch Bon - th-cam.com/video/kanAr4xIlpA/w-d-xo.html
They could get quite prog at times, too. At their far end, I think. Or maybe it's still the wide end. Maybe *A Balloon for Bertie's Party* doesn't have a prog sound, but a minute or two should tell you if my description feels like it fits. It's OK if it doesn't. Tim also refused to accept a "prog" label, and said what they did was "just pop" - meaning the tunes were what matters, I think.
th-cam.com/video/z1QlhTzSy7Y/w-d-xo.html
Don't forget Stravinsky!
Good point! Thanks for watching
The first four or five albums by The Enid - beginning with In the Region of the Summer Stars - and a few thereafter.
Is anyone else who was young in the UK in tbe 1970s sick of being told by Americans that the genre "prog rock" did not exist at the time and that it is a name that was only applied retrospectively?
Those of us who were there know full well that the music of Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, Gentle Gisnt et al was definitely called progressive rock (and/or "prog", "prog rock") in the UK at the time the music waa being made.
I like the prog sound although I've only started exploring rock at all. For me the third self titled Deep Purple album (One of my all-time favourite albums) and first (four or five) Uriah Heep albums are fine examples of prog rock.
Right on. Thanks for sharing.
The thing about prog, is that it can be anything. Prog is mostly the act of thinking outside of the box.
ELO has a lot of poppy songs and it's a full prog band.
Yes' Owner of a Lonely heart is a pop song and it's still prog.
I think all major bands have dabbled into prog.
Tears for Fears' Sowing the Seeds of Love is Prog.
Now, modern Prog Metal, is not very prog. A lot of the sounds of the bands are very similar, they follow similar beats, similar sounds and timbres. The thing that makes them "prog" is long songs, very technically difficult, with different movements throughout. But they now do that in a very similar structure.
A modern prog band that is incredible is 6:33. They are very different, the lyrics are not serious, they do different things, there's a lot of swing influences and so on.
This video is great but I think there should be more talking points on modern progressive rock such as Porcupine Tree or Spock’s Beard
Yeah, I would have talked more about them had I the time, but I was trying to keep it a sensible length. Maybe I'll get round to them one day! Thanks for watching
Interesting that you have such an early decline for Jethro Tull. Most fans consider the mid-to-late 70s albums as top shelf work, with the exception of Too Old to Rock and Roll.
A lot of non-prog bands from other rock or metal sub-genre can be very creative & successful, arguably many more times than strictly a prog band.
Some non-prog bands also incorporate prog elements in their songs.
This is my opinion, equally as subjective & debatable as yours.
But cheers for your video.
I heavily recommend Thirsty Moon. An amazing German prog band, i hardly hear anyone speak about them and in my opinion should be known more
their first album is absolutely amazing and worth a listen
Thanks for this recommendation im blown away
When you say Psychedelic rock, I tend to think of Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, Country Joe and the Fish. The San Francisco bands. And I know that there are people out there who will say that it is more that that, but these bands lived, breathed, and wore psychedelia on their sleeves.
I found it strange the grateful dead was never mentioned, which I'd consider the holy grail of prog eh?
@@mustacheman19 Pink Floyd is certainly the holy grail of prog.
@@fabianramsay7937 true but same for the dead
It's heavy metal without the Heavy focus :D
I can't think of any station that would play prog if it came back. We have a couple of classic rock stations but music just isn't what it used to be. ELP is my favorite band.
Thanks for watching!
I was around when this music was popular, and there was nothing called ‘prog’ rock then. There was something called progressive radio which meant it was a freeform format where the deejay could play whatever they wanted and talk about anything. They tended to play album tracks and off the charts type things like Yes along with Elton John, Joni Mitchell, CSN&Y etc. as if it was all just one happy family. The target of punk was not the ‘progressive’ bands but the easy listening and corporate music of the mainstream charts like ‘the Pina Colada song.’ You have to be rich and in a leisure suit to relate to that. Even Johnny Rotten later admited he liked prog’ music. The Pink Floyd t-shirt was his own and he scrawled ‘I hate’ really just for fun and controversy. His guitarist for PiL was a Yes fan too.
I can assure you that the music most definitely WAS called prog rock (or progressive rock, prog, the terms were interchangeable) in the UK at the time. That was how the music of Yes, King Crimson, Genesis, ELP, et al was described. Progressive Rock was a very widely used and understood term. Occasionally it was also used, alongside "underground rock", to describe any kind of album-orientated non-Top 40 brand of rock music. But if you asked anyone interested in music what sort of stuff Yes, ELP, or Genesis or similar played the answer would always be progressive rock.
The term may not have been used in the US, but where most of the music came from it most certainly was used. On the other hand, we in the UK had no "progressive radio". That term certainly did not exist. There were no FM rock music channels whatsoever, and you heard almost no rock music of any kind on either UK radio or TV. The only exceptions were the John Peel radio show on BBC Radio 1 and, later, the Alan Freeman show on Saturday afternoons. The likes of Elton John, The Eagles, and 10cc would occasionally get played on daytime radio but that was as close to *serious" rock music as things got at that time.
I prefer to read the word "progressive" in the first sense, actually. I feel the most defining element of a "progressive" piece is that it consists of three or more sections or "movements," and -- here it comes :) -- it *progresses* from one to the next in a way that is either narrative or thematic. That's a structural definition, not a contextual one.
This video, like most Prog songs, put me to sleep about halfway through.
A prog rock video without Steven Wilson? Whaaaat?
Honestly, I'm just not much of a fan of his! 😬
@@bigyellowpraxis Yeah his stuff are more metal inspired , which I really like
Magma pioneered the genre zeuhl. Have you listened to any other zeuhl bands like Eskaton, J.A.Caesar, Koenji Hyakkei, Weidorje, Bondage Fruit, Ruins, Archaia?
Brilliant video! Can I make a couple of suggestions?
1. If you're not already aware of it, I would suggest you look up Andy Edwards TH-cam channel. He does a lot of these types of video about Prog
2. Please check out the Swedish band, Moon Safari. They have a new album out on December 8 2023. Andy Edwards has also done a review/interview with them!
Good video! Basically if musical genres were levels in a computer game prog rock, going from simplest to most difficult, would probably be the last level - even classical music and opera (high art) seem to have less complexity and 'sub-genres' in them, they're a bit more predictable. What similarity is there between, say, Van Der Graaf Generator and someone like Renaissance!? And then there's people like Hawkwind and Mike Oldfield, who helped create their own genres whilst still being prog too... hey, some of it is even accessible, particularly as we got into the neo-prog era!
Having just been to the Prog festival in Sheffield (again) I think it's actually prog's USP - not the musicianship, not the concepts, not the bizarre subjects, not the odd time signatures, flutes or Mellotrons, but the sheer diversity of the artists! And the other thing that characterises prog is something I heard about King Crimson - that it doesn't really 'come' from anywhere, unlike most music.
*******Check out "OU"(pronounced Oh) from Beijing. For me their like Kate Bush, Bjork and Djent. I love Lynn Wu's vocal lines and the Slurry of Lush vocal Harmony layered over some Heavy, Seasoned, Technical music.
Btw... Devin Townsend helped produce one of their Albums!*******
Just purchased both.👍