Be honest, you pulled out your sovereign citizen 'travelling' card and the judge bought it. Seriously, the leniency people need their heads read in your case.
I drive a truck and was turning left at an intersection , as there were pedestrians walking in front of the truck the lights had turned orange then red and I was caught in no man’s land . I was forced to make the turn on red , as a result it triggered the cameras. I appealed to state revenue and was also rejected even though the photographic evidence was overwhelming. Feeling an injustice here, I took the matter to court ,the magistrate found in my favour and was awarded a section 10. Like you I formed a strong opinion of state revenue
Around 20 years ago I was a regular donator (around $500 per annum) to the kids charity that the police run here in Queensland. I was stopped on a country road by a traffic cop who jumped out from behind a bush and got me for doing 83 in an 80 zone. No leniency was given or asked for, however I did mention to him that I’ll be using my charity donation to pay the fine if it goes through…and guess what….the prcik lodged it anyway. Needless to say that they have lost around $10k in donations over that time as I now refuse to help the cops out at all. Oh, it was the only speeding ticket I’ve ever had.
About 10 years ago I had to collect an engineer from Sydney Airport, complete with his 35 kgs toolbox. As I arrived at the airport I saw him standing at the kerb, so I stopped in a pull-in space, just past the entrance, to allow him to get in. As I got out of the car a ranger appeared from nowhere and shouted something to me. I could not hear what he was saying because of the traffic and walked over to hear what he was saying. He told me that I could not stop where I was and that he was going to write me a ticket. I told him that I could not see anything saying I could not stop there and that I would move the car immediately. By this time the engineer was in the car and we left. Next day a ticket arrived in the post (thanks for the brilliant service Australia Post!) with a hefty fine, not for stopping or parking, but for failing to obey the instructions of a ranger. All of my work colleagues told me that it was pointless to try to appeal the ticket, but I gave it a go anyway. I rang the number on the ticket and explained what had happened. I also said that I had obeyed with the ranger’s instructions and moved my car immediately. To my surprise I received a letter a few days later cancelling the fine because after speaking to the ranger he had admitted that I moved the car immediately. The letter also said that they would not issue me with a parking fine as the parking notice was obscured by another sign and thanking me for pointing this out to them,!
Had a similar experience at Karratha airport. Circling in and out of the airport car park waiting for a delayed flight. So thought I'll just stop on this gravel strip and run inside and see when they expect the bloody thing to land. I went past the parking inspector who said nothing to me. I get out he was writing a ticket.. he refused to communicate with me until he had finished.. very rude. No sign.. not obstructing emergency services.. not too near the building.. not on any garden.. all these things he tried to tell me I'd done wrong. All he could tell me was that it was a reserve marked on councils website.. like who looks up councils website before parking a car for a few minutes. I wrote a huge letter to council about it and how they had violated their own motto about educating the public as he saw me park and didn't even tell me then.. move on. I told council I take it to court or they can drop it. They dropped it.
This video is way more useful than every single piece of "Is it legal to...?" and "Is it illegal to...?" clickbaity horseshit produced by Drive and CarExpert combined. Congrats on the win, John.
I applied for a leniency review for an 80 in a 60 speeding fine and it was granted so it can happen. In my favour was a 10 year clean driving record and the infringement wasn’t in a school zone.
@@dansearle7024 CE itself is one of the better automotive sites out there and I appreciate a lot of the content they put out, but their recent series of "Is it legal?" articles have cheapened the site just a tad. Honest personal opinion.
@@AutoExpertJC I think you had a fair magistrate on the day that took your prior exemplary record into consideration. Thanks all the same for the tips about section 10 and just to say nothing when a police officer puts words into your mouth saying Did you realise you went through a red light.
Over forty years ago I got off a parking fine, somewhat like John I was guilty as charged. I parked on a street near a shopping centre the day before Mother's day contrary to a no parking sign that read no parking in the hours I was there. When I got the fine in the mail I noticed that the cop had written on the fine that the sign had read no parking x hours Monday to Friday, no mention of Saturday. Aha, a loop hole, I when to court, and pleaded not guilty, and told the magistrate that the date of the offence was on a Saturday, they checked the calendar and the case was dismissed. The magistrate muttered that maybe the police should read the signs properly. :)
They never paid attention at school, so what can you expect from them? Why do you think they became police, engineering was too boring easy for them? #You'reAcop?ShouldHavePaidAttentionAtSchool
A day in court is definitely a life-affirming experience. It forces you to confront the reality of the lives of many people out there while you wait for your turn.
spot on, ATM on wheels. It drives me nuts when you cop a fine for 3klms over a 100klm limit on a road that presents the best possoble conditions for driving.
@@kenwilliams3279 would it be prudent to go 100 km/h on a motorway when it is heavily raining and you can barely see the car in front of you? After all, the sign does say 100 km/h on it and you wouldn't want to be charged with impeding traffic on a busy motorway? Fact of the matter is distance between vehicles and paying attention to the road is what saves lives, not merely speed. Germany doesn't have a speed limit for much of their motorways and yet they have a much lower fatality rate than Australia. Why is that?
@j2simpso Possibly because the people causing the killings on our roads now have never been told about Hitler, Stalin or Bin chicken Laden and don't know the repercussions of being a c#%t. In other words, we have a lot of brain dead, entitled mother lover's on our roads who think and act just like the fore mentioned and get away with it.
@@j2simpso Probably because the Autobahn has dual lanes and everyone drives to their comfort level without having to overtake on the wrong side of the road.
As a child in the USA in the 1960s, the high school driver ed program showed films of bodies being removed from accident cars. To say this made an "impact" on our minds is understatement.
Great story John. I got a low level revenue camera fine in NSW some years ago and the paperwork that came with it really reflected what it was about. The cheesy "PAY NOW" written all over it made it look more like a cash grab than any other bill I've received in my life. And they wonder why people have a negative view of over-zealous enforcement of minor traffic offences...
Its not just about the money mate. Can you imagine the strain on the system if every man an his dog was encouraged to apply for leniency and take every matter to court?
Awesome video! I just wished this had come out about an year ago. I would have helped me keep my NZ DL record clean. Long story short I bought a car from a seller in another city and go pulled over for going above the speed limit maybe 300 meters after entering an intersection. I had 70Km/h limit in my mind because that's what it was before that intersection but as I pulled out of the petrol station after a quick stop for a snack, that stretch of road was now 50Km/h. It was an honest mistake and as soon as I saw the police lights on the opposite lane I knew it was for me. I pulled over so quickly that I had already stopped when I saw the police officer drive past me on the other side and then do an U-turn. I explained all this to him and he still gave me a ticket. When I questioned him about why not just give me warning and send me on my merry way, he said "If you get pulled over, you get a ticket". That was it, he couldn't have made it any clearer that road safety was not the focus here. Earlier that day I flew from Wellington to Nelson to buy a car and was going to do the long drive through Lewis Pass in order to get back to Picton to jump on the ferry back to Welly. The main roads between Nelson and Blenheim were blocked due damage cause by heavy storm a week prior. His words stuck with me. It was an honest mistake, maybe I missed the 50Km/h sign as I entered this new stretch of road. After all it was a city I had never been to before. I complied, as soon as I saw his lights I thought "did I really just go a bit too fast? I'll pull over then". I answered all his questions respectfully. He asked me what was the reason for speeding and I said I didn't realise I was speeding and I apologised for it if I did. Car was mine and in my name. My records were up to date in the system and my home address matched. I had no fines for over 10 years. The whole ordeal just left me with a sour taste in my mouth about police in general in New Zealand. Still remember about 18 years ago when I came to this country for the first time, that I got pulled over and the officer then explained what I had done wrong and still let me go. He said he'd keep an on out for me in case I did it again, and that he wouldn't let me leave without a fine if it happened again. He educated me and he did not have to reach into my wallet to do it. I heard people complain that it is now all a cash grab operation and I didn't agree. For years I didn't believe it. Always thought they must have done something utterly wrong and they deserved getting a ticket. I guess I was wrong. I guess I should have contested it. I don't think this was fair and now I can't do anything about it. I hit the PAY NOW button and moved on. Thank you for the enlightenment moment John... =)
Well done John! I'm a criminal lawyer in UK. The best words I can hear from the judge is that they don't want to hear from me (or read my submissions). That means I've won. If the judge wants to find against me, he has to be seen to be hearing from me (or reading my stuff).
About ten years ago, I was travelling to work on my motorcycle (something I didn't usually do) when I tripped a speed camera on James Ruse drive just before the M4. I was travelling from my home in Windsor. I had planned to use the bike in stead of the train on two days as I was covering for one of my security guards just before Christmas( I was the supervisor of the site we worked at). I was oblivious to the camera fine at the time. The next day, apparently, I was pinned again for the same thing. I was allegedly doing 80 in a 70 zone. At the time I was just moving with what little traffic was on the road at that time of the morning. I received the fines about one month after the actual date of the act. What bugged me the most about these fines is the time it took to arrive at my house. When you get pulled over by the police, you instantly look at your speed and you have an idea whether you were actually guilty. This acts as a motivation to be more aware of your speed and the speed limit you are travelling through. Getting the fines one month later made me feel like I was taking part in revenue raising. The part of the 4 lane highway I was trapped at had constantly changing speeds and just before the camera was a 90 zone. I took it court. I was presented with a folder by the prosecution which contained the said camera's maintenance schedule as well as pictures of me riding down the road. When asked by the Magistrate how fast did I think I was going, I answered "I have no idea". I said all I could attest to was I was riding safely. Having received the fines so long after the incident I had no clue as to the speed I was travelling or, indeed, that I had been pinged by the camera. My record was similar to John's and I was issued a Section 10. One thing different was I still lost all of my points (double demerits were in force at the time). The State authorities said they had proved their case so their penalty still stood. I didn't have to pay the fine but I had to pay court costs (about $50).
Happy you got off. No harm done. No crash. No injuries. You never even crossed the junction. All good. I have a completely different view of how fair courts are regarding traffic offences. My father whilst assisting another motorist who had broken down got hit by a drunk driver that had left the road. The other guy whose car was broken down, lost his legs. My dad spent 6 weeks in traction. Damaged legs and back. And had continuous back pain the remainder of his life. The drunk got off with a fine. My mother on the way to work was killed in a head on car crash. The van that hit her was on her side of the road. The driver of which had multiple driving offenses against his name. Hit her at a time when he should have already clocked on at work miles away. So was running late. Come to your own conclusions. But got off with no offense recorded. Having killed someone. Just last week I was driving along quite legally. When bang a car hit me from the side. Unregistered car. No Insurance. A young bloke had done a U turn straight into me. Police don't want to know. Non injury traffic accident. Yet the car wasn't registered. Isn't that an offense. And now my insurance is playing hard ball about what they will pay for. When none of it was my fault. So am I enamoured about how fair and wonderful our Police and justice system are. Not in the least.
John, I wish you could do some videos where you interview people, or chair a panel discussion about various subjects, with experts, regulators, etc. You cut through the BS like no other journalist in the whole world and have the knack of making a complex idea or situation digestable and understandable by regular people. Great video.
Well done John. My approach in court was far more reckless, arguing that it wasn't for me to decide my guilt/innocence and this was the magistrate's sole "raison d'etre". DPP said for the plea to be entered as not guilty. Asked for the record to show that the DPP's comment was presumptuous. Session was stood down for a later hearing. The protection officer on duty said I was the most entertaining case all day :-) Received a letter in the mail a week later telling me my fine was dismissed on "technical grounds". A lawyer friend told me later that this was code for getting rid of minor infringements where the cost recovery wasn't worth it - all about the citizens being revenue ATMs as you pointed out. Coincidentally, never seen a speed camera infringement in the mail since.
Decent judges who use their powers of discretion as needed and as intended are so important in democratic societies. For all the issues in this country, being able to talk to a competent real person in the judiciary when shit hits the fan is almost all their is separating this country from a 3rd rate dictatorship.
great recounting of your experience. noteworthy is that yes, you may have lost 3 points and copped 454 dollar fine, but an unknown hidden cost is the 40 months it takes to reclaim your third party insurance premium discount, which can amount to an additional $600 dollars over that time. Frank
Excellent advice John! Like you I take pride in my long term, 30+years, years clean driving license (and that last time was a minor and honest mistake) . I try hard to maintain my good record because doing so makes the road safer for everyone. So if I ever get a fine, it will be an honest error, and having now seen this video, I will seek leniency. Thank you Sir! Your advice is highly valued!
I’m off to court at the end of this month. Your vlog has validated my submission approach. I thought I may have over egged the pudding but I am feeling more comfortable thanks to you. Much appreciated. Regards Lin
I reckon he read it for sure later with his afternoon coffee, everyone in the Prosecutors office would have had a read too. All would have been impressed and recognised the effort you put into it, he knew it when you handed it up, you got credit for giving a shit and being PREPARED. 👏💪
As a retired police officer, I always advised anyone that I ticketed to go to court. I too, received two citations once when still sworn and once after I retired. Both times I attended court and the results were positive. ALWAYS go to court.
Thats how most states in the USA got rid of speed cameras. Everyone opted to go to court that was pingged speeding. Clogged up the court system massively. The backlog was so huge they had to turn the cameras off. Many government departments had loans or fees to pay to have the cameras and have them maintained even though they were not being used. It was deemed financially unviable to have them outside of a patrol car situation and they got rid of most of them. People seen them for what they were, speed cameras not safety cameras.
Dear Mr. Cadogan: In my 53 years of driving, I am not proud to say that I've gotten about 30 citations. With two exceptions, I went to court on each one. I won on ALL but one of them ( and there I got a reduced sentence). I always go to court unless I'm so obviously and egregiously guilty. Getting older has turned me into an ( almost) model driver, I've gotten no citations in the last decade.. You are quite right about the value of going to court prepared and in a respectful mien. That, alone, has served me well. Congratulations on your victory. If I lived in Oz, instead of 'merica, I'd ask for a copy of your pleading to the court. Others may be interested in it though. Your fan, Dennis Wolterding
Where I grew up, you are required to display a current tax disc on the windscreen of your car. Walking with Dad as a kid through the village he idly commented that ever car parked on the stretch from the green to the police station had an out of date tax disc. He mentioned this to a passing policeman. "Mind your business" was the curt reply. So it was ok for the cops to drive without paying car tax on their private cars. But I'm sure that policeman would have had no problem ticketing a car he didn't recognise further up the village streets ....
22:52 Same thing happened to me - many moons ago my daughter stopped breathing and was taken by ambulance with my wife to Westmead hospital, I followed them in my car and got a speeding fine (under 15 km at the time). I was young and explained the situation so what did they do, took some 20 minutes to issue me a fine. This happened at 3am with only myself and the ambulance on the road.
Thank you John, excellent story telling and you really should have been a lawyer! Been enjoying your TH-cam content for a few years now - I keep coming back.
As a 78 yr old driver I can tell you John that your little lapse of concentration is the first of an ever increasing number of lapses as you age, so hopefully you learned from this and work actively to constantly evaluate your behaviour, reactions etc and adjust your behaviour accordingly. I've had to do this, coming up with refreshment strategies, planning trips carefully etc. so far successfully, fingers crossed.
Like yourself John, my driving licence matters (not a motoring journalist but a truck driver). Going back about 10 years, I was about my job (multi-drop HR truck in Sydney) and I turned right at a set of traffic lights 4 minutes before the 9:00am curfew ended - it was a regular run but on this occasion I was a bit early and I wasn't watching the clock. I got pulled by the HWP who issued a ticket and because I've got a national HVDL the penalties double. I got off the penalties because my licence was clean, but what left a sour taste was that the NSW HWP was there at 8:54am at all.
From Adelaide back to Victoria, there was one town with a lower speed limit than the others on the highway (60km/h vs 80km/h or something similar). After 4 or 5 towns slowing to 80km/h, I was pulled up by SA highway patrol. When he told me I was speeding I thought he was joking. Fair enough, all the other towns slow to 80km/h, but this one just happens to be 60km/h. The towns all seemed similar, with no reason for the lower speed limit, and I told him this. It came across as a scam, but suffice to say I paid attention from then on, in case of any more SA traffic department trickery.
A mate of mine had a cop on a motorcycle pull out in front of him once, years ago. He ran over him. They tried everything to charge my mate for the crash but witnesses all said the cop was at fault. Everywhere he went from that day, he had a cop behind him, until he sold the car
yep this is the way... The force is a giant mob like structure, they will tighten a net around you and act like your a murderer. Been there done that, i always thought i could trust the police.... yeah... no.
cool story bro.. you should know that police can pull the vehicle rego details for any name and/or address, so if they really wanted to harass your mate, he would have to move interstate.
Yes John I can relate to a seniors moment. Done the same at a set of lights whilst heading out west via the blue mountains for work at an unfamiliar intersection at 6am. Got one car length then realised it was a green arrow. No traffic so proceeded safely as I couldnt reverse and didnt want to remain there until traffic did arrive. On another point the cops really need to clamp down on wankers that tailgate and idiots that remain in the right lane after overtaking.
Tailgating is my pet hate, multiple experiences of getting rear-ended, even cars totalled... Aggressively overtaking on the right lane, after they've prevented you from changing lanes AND freeing the left one for them is another one!
The prosecutor should have dropped the case and it should never have gone to the court. This proves it that its a revenue raising exercise and nothing to do with road safety. Had John just driven off and not stopped then yes he should have been fined then.
Hi John, I have been driving in NSW for longer than you. I have actually applied for and granted leniency on two occassions. Once a speed camera coasting down the hill in the M1 Woolloomoloo tunnel and the second time turning right in the AM peak hour when it was not permitted at that time. I often turned right there in the evening and didn't realise it until half way through the turn and decied the safest was to keep going. I had both offences changed to a caution. I wrote a letter asking for leniency and the deciding factor was that it had been ten years between offences. (In the ACT it is five years.) So if you've haven't had an offence in over ten years, ask and you have a good chance of getting off. However, the Queensland Police Force are mongrels. I was pinged in Brisbane by a speed camera doing 64km/h in a 60 zone. Late Sunday afternoon, perfect weather, light traffic, good light. The letter arrived in the mail with all the references contained on payment methods, but no alternatives offered, except court appearance. After trawling through various Queensland government web sites I eventually found a postal address for the revenue department to write for leniency. The reply came back saying there is no provision for leniency in the legislation, so pay up or see you in court. Travelling to Brisbane to plead in front of a magistrate was not a reasonable option, so I paid up. Mongrels. AS John said, speed cameras do not prevent infringements, just record them for issuing fines later.
Great story John. I like the idea of bringing us the story but not being part of it. Years ago, I was pulled over 1 km from home for not wearing a seatbelt - and the copper mentioned that it was a dbl D weekend too. I explained that I was on my way to work, and reversing out the driveway I had to stop and unbuckle to move the wheelie bin. Anyway, he let me off with a warning, and to try to make good on that gesture, I sent a company wide email telling them about it, reinforcing the importance of seatbelts, and the safety they will be providing over the coming long weekend. I feel that was the least I could do for the leniency I received.
May I ask a question John? My car was towed by the SA equiv. of the NRMA. When the car was towed after breakdown the tow bloke was asked if he could do a diagnostic to determine the issue/s. When I attended the yard to sort repairs at a BMW approved repairer, I found my cars transmission, amongst other parts, strewn all over the workshop. No diagnostic was done he simply pointed at my torque converter and said there's the problem. He then asked me will it fit in your car and to take it home because they don't fix transmissions. I know the scam well as I lost my engine, turbo system and exhaust for a diagnosis on a pinpoint oil leak. $22,000.00 later I sold the car with major issues. ( Toyota Surf ). What do I do to get around the one sided tribunal rubbish, get my car put back together and stop this from happening to others as it seems to be his regular thing. I love your work, advice and attitude dude. You're the man.
Judges are pretty awesome. Had a few hearings in the last year whereby some false accusations were made. Victoria Police is pretty much forced to act even in the complete absence of evidence. Saw two different judges and they both said the accusations were serious but they also realised there was no evidence. Used a lawyer for one hearing but he was useless. So self represented and the judge was prepared to show heaps of procedural leniency. From my experience they like you to be honest and humble. They have very little time for lawyers that fumble their words and get things wrong. It always helps to be prepared and know what outcomes you could expect. Leave the ego and attitude at home.
Great video, coming in from south australia, great perspective. The irony is it is much harder to get a fine now with all the warning systems in a new car. 20 years ago I had a bad run, mainly as it was hard to tell all the different speed limits etc. Now with a new car everything is on the display. In adelaide 10min from city the speed limits are 20, 40, 50 and 60 and all the roads look identical. Great video re eye opening, will tale my kids in to court as they get closer to driving.
I had one recently where I was driving 8km UNDER the limit in a tunnel when the speed limit was suddenly varied down to 60km and I was booked on the camera. I wanted to take it to court, but I ended up deciding the $150 fine wasn't worth losing a day over... Which I'm sure is the conclusion they wanted me to come to.
Thanks for your video John, I found it very helpful and my circumstances here in Brisbane are very similar to yours. A good mate of mine recommended I watch this video (btw my mate's opinion of you was less than favourable, I believe due to the small portion of what he had viewed ie. your "wacky out there" sales pitch style at the beginning of your clips). My driving record is very important to me and prior to this incident, in the past decade (at least) or two, my driving history show's 1 blemish from February this year (2023) when my 15 year old daughter decided to place her seatbelt under her left arm in the passenger seat, during a drive up the M1 after a day at Wet'n Wild (obviously without my knowledge until after the fact). I have also recently been through a civil court battle (I instigated), self representing in the Federal Circuit Court of Australia, so I am now quite well versed in Court procedures and etiquette..........before watching your clip, I was probably edging towards just paying the fine, but now maybe you have supplied me with another option and some confidence in the possible outcome - thank you for making the effort to share your experience with the rest of Australia.
Storytime: While on my L's on my bike back in 2020 I think, I was sent a fine in the mail for 71 in a 60 zone. It appeared the details were correct. It had the licence plate for my bike etc. However, I couldn't remember riding in that location that was given. I did my best to look up this location and Google Maps said it was in Sydney, I have never ridden in Sydney so that was odd. However, I thought well maybe I am just not finding this road name in the right location and had thought about just paying the fine. I didn't end up doing that. I got home ( I was out when I read the letter) anyway once home I found my way to the camera image (the better quality one) and saw that it couldn't have been me cause I couldn't even recognise the location. Also, it wasn't my bike and it wasn't me. I downloaded the photo, zoomed in on the number plate and was able to determine the actual plate number. So I called up to contest with my reasoning and the girl on the phone was great, she advised me to contest in writing so that's what I did and it was removed from me as the offender. It is always important to confirm whether or not you are actually the one committing the offence. Not just pay it cause it might seem too difficult. I could have ended up with money gone and points on my licence for something I didn't do. Letting someone else off the hook. This also would have done in my record that has been clean since I finished my red p suspension back in the day at 17, 31 at the time of the notice in the mail for the bike.
I had the same in Melbourne many years ago. I got a speeding fine in the mail, and found it odd as I didn't remember driving in that location before. The camera photo showed a completely different car & number plate to mine, but from memory the car was the same colour as mine. It was easy to clear up.
Hey John my brother Glenn went to court dressed as Leo Wanka to oppose a revenue collecting fine for truck exhaust stacks a few inches too high while it was on a trailer. ie the prime mover added to height of the trailer it was on while it was being transported for repairs. He said the fine in court was worth every cent as he accepted it gracefully while one of his mates took the photos of him with LEO WANKA written on the back of his overalls fronted up. Both he and all the truckies in this country have had enough. No section 10 1a unfortunately even though the average truckie doesn't have access to the precise right angle measuring rulers that the rta inspector used to reach the top of the stacks from the road surface. Good on you for a good driving record. great show.
In Danistan it’s called section 76, Sentencing Act. Proven and dismissed. Regularly used by people with no prior convictions. If you hold recent prior convictions (within the last 10 years), good luck. If you hold none, usually minor offending without mandatory sentences e.g. drink or drug driving, you’ll likely get the opportunity of section 76.
I am also in NSW and I put in an appeal on line and got off because of the clean slate for 32 years...They did however say that the shiny record(Which remains) wouldn't stand if I was to appeal another in the next few years...Cost....$00000000. and 0 points.
This is making me wish I'd contested the "failure to STOP" at a STOP sign fine I received a few years ago. I decided I couldn't afford to lose a case and probably would, but it would have been fun. My defence would have had two parts. Firstly, I had stopped and I believe I did so far enough back from the line that I could see the entire road to my right but the cop's view of me was obscured by a hedge, which was the same colour as my car. More importantly I found that NZ legislation contained no definition of "stop" other than that a "stop" is a "complete stop". Without invoking Zeno's arrow I believed I could have argued that this is too subjective to be meaningful. For what duration must the vehicle make no observed movement and what duration of "stop" can a human perceive? Does it vary between humans? Is perception affected by whether a vehicle creeps very slowly to a possible stop, or stops like an F1 car achieving a 0.1 second pit stop. At what distance and viewing angle can a human perceive this? Does a reading of 0 on a monitored vehicle log constitute proof of a stop (even if the software has rounding) and so on. Oh what fun it might have been.
Well you are not impressing anyone on TH-cam...His got more subscribers than you or me. And unlike you or me he produces his own videos and content. So your in no position to poke sh..t at him mate...
@@kimw200blaze4 Guess what? I dont want subscribers and I dont care what anyone thinks about me because I do not think about you at all. All my videos are of my own creation and I do not need to speak one word to make money unlike this sad old man and his Fanboys.
Honestly i think a huge amount of the reduction in deaths from all causes can be attributed to the mobile phone the fact that when every minute counts near everyone has an phone on them that they can instantly call for help
And how good are navigation aids that tell you when to make turns.. no more fumbling with maps and trying to remember a string of street names in heavy traffic.
@@gppsoftware that makes sense because of how it all works if it automatically paired it could just pair with cars as you walk pass them, the pairing of devices needs some form of security because once paired both devices are open to all sorts of data access
i understand your predictiment i drove in a coach through a red light in alice springs there was one intersection after another and at the last minuite saw that the second light was red, i hit the anchors and stopped with the back wheels just over the line, but when the lights changed the traffic could not move because i had the intersection blocked so decided to clear the road but there was a traffic inspector right behind me. he pulled me over i explained my situation he asked if i had any pasengers on board when it was no he let me go
Way back in the early 90’s my shit navigator says right turn here as we about to pass the street. There was no other cars on the road. The rear tyres let out the barest of squeals. Next thing I know there is a cop car racing up behind. I waited for them to put their lights on before pulling over. They asked why the tyres squealed. I explained that I had almost missed the turn. They then said they could have made the turn without squealing a wheel and perhaps my car wasn’t road worthy. I pointed out that they were driving a brand new cop car and I was driving a 15 year old kingswood with 400kg of DJ and lightning on board so their comparison was somewhat skewed. They gave up trying to get me to admit to anything and gave me a warning.
I got leniency on “no P Plate” and “rego label (remember those?) on the side instead of rear” on my motorcycle as a mature returning rider. I wrote a letter stating that the P-Plate was on at the start of my journey (which it was & had a witness) and the rego label was where the dealer fitted to the new bike (where they fit all) and they wrote back & said “make sure you fit P-Plate securely. you won’t get it a second time…”
I know of at least 960 aplications for review in NSW that where bulk proceeded to collection because the number of requested reviews where to high. So so wrong.
It's also illegal to say a fine has been reviewed when it hasn't. I attended a meeting where it was explained how they did it. I even lost my job trying to have those fines reviewed. I've got the email that list about half of them.
John Cadogan this must be one of your best U Tube presentations , normally I think you are a full ship . You have proven me wrong I enjoyed your story telling kudos to you loved it immensely 🌟😎👏🎉
Also in NSW there is the option for a Work and Development Order. You need to meet certain criteria, but if successful instead of paying the fine you can do a course, volunteer work, or similar, for x hours based on the fine amount.
I have the impression that the Australian red light cameras have far less mercy than the ones here in the UK. Last time I was in Australia I saw red light cameras flash at cars where the light must have only been red for a fraction of a second. In my mind, this silly level of enforcement is highly dangerous by making you brake harder on an orange with little regard to who may hit you from behind...
These flashes may of been for speeding and not red-light offences. They are also a speed camera. So the driver may have l Flawed it to pass the orange light but got to 55km and hour and booked....
Red light scameras lead to an increase in intersection accidents as people at these places are now too quick to hit the brakes. And who can blame them.
I totally agree with you that government treats motorists as ATM machines, it's all about the money and not much about just safety. In saying in 1982 that I was booked for staying over the time limit in liverpool while I went to see the real estate agent. I sent a letter to NSW revenue asking for leniacy and I was let off the fine. Another incident I was booked for not fully stopping at a stop sign back in 1985 and wrote the NSW revenue, I was asked to attend an evening lecture about traffic and driving but I didn't have to pay the fine or lose any points
The "system" screws the average person at the end of the day there is less money in your pocket. However watching "dash cam type videos" on youtube shows lunatics speeding through red lights , four wheels jives driving over footpaths and physical centre islands and then through red lights on the wrong side of the road seemingly immune to being caught.
the difference with those types is that they know which intersections have camera's or they are driving cars with stolen plates, so don't care if their plate gets recorded..
The Judge probably watches your youtube channel. If it takes 36 years for you to get a ticket, I don't think you need to be worrying about fighting for some silly record by wasting 2 days of your life and 300 dollars just to have a judge not even give a rats ass about your "submission". Whether you paid the ticket or spent the day in court, they still won.
I have a question. I made a silly mistake one evening - after midnight in Vic regional town - illegal u turn(no traffic mind you!)got caught. Pulled me up. Thing is I’m 99.99% sure the officer pulled an illegal u turn over a single line at main intersection afterward... I’ve paid the fine, but I wondered whether to bring that to their attention in written letter. The GPS would be the only evidence. I have left it go thinking it might be a hassle... IBAC? thoughts??
Great video, with many salient points. I live in QLD, and the one aspect of enforcement of road rules that absolutely drives (pardon the pun) me crazy, that relates in my opinion to your point on revenue, are the speed camera signs that state ‘Speed Camera…for Road Safety’. They quite clearly should read ‘Speed Camera…for Revenue Raising’, because as you point out, the driver passes through the camera zone at whatever their indiscretion is, and possibly continues their reckless and dangerous speeding, endangering the lives of everyone around them (tongue planted firmly in cheek), until such time as their infringement notice arrives in the mail a week or two later. Whereas most drivers speeding or otherwise, upon seeing a clearly marked police vehicle, tend to immediately check their speed. If road safety was genuinely the goal, more police visibility rather than sneaky, sometimes hidden speed cameras would lead to better outcomes in my opinion.
So with a clean record you might keep it clean. Still, you only tripped a sensor, you didn't cross a road while processing cross traffic and continue your merry way flipping the finger at the light and camera.
@@AutoExpertJC You live to drive another day. It's nice to still have that option available to you as it presents itself. When you get pulled over, you can inform the constable that you walk through court on the regular. I have my latest leniency declaration right here still, and boy was I guilty... Want to get on my magistrate's bad side, now do you, hero traffic cop? 😀
Your comment about fairness is spot on. Unlike those who are measured on issuing revenue invoices or receiving revenue, magistrates are interested in fairness. Not everyone/not many will have a clean driving record to rely on, but if the ticket is unfair the magistrate will hear it. That especially applies to minor offences where the penalty is not fair, like compulsory suspension for minor speeding for provisional licence holders, and the subsequent thousands of dollars increase in insurance premiums. Note it goes both ways, and if you're trying to fight based on an obscure technicality, it won't go well.
I’ve learnt that rocking up to court with even pretend paperwork has got me off on reasonless doubt multiple times 😂. The magistrate doesn’t care for reading. They are also mostly all quite fair and nice to us non cock heads 👍🏻 Surprised you even got the ticket as cameras are supposed to take multiple photos showing passing the white like and also entering into the intersection. Sounds like you stopped before you fully crossed the line. But good work, you shouldn’t be penalised for an honest brain fart. I’ve often challenged fines and either got off or got leniency 👍🏻
Well done, mate. Your account at 31:06 reminds me of the movie 'The Perfect Witness' with Aidan Quinn's character, who prepares for a trial and then has a similar pay-off to his preparation (I won't spoil a good film if you haven't seen it).
And a proper wash. It being pride month, and let's face it, century, he lucked out there not catching a diversity hire magistrate. So awkward when the honest gesture of ass licking is twisted into some vile demeaning predatory action. If I thought it would be considered such, I wouldn't go through the trouble, now would I, your honor?
Over 40 years ago I got a parking ticket for parking in a "no stopping" zone on a quite weekend. This was in the days of hand written notices written in duplicate, one for the car window and one for processing. I noticed that the Q in my number plate was written as an O and threw the ticket away. Never heard anything more. The owner of the "O" car might have received a summons 6 months latter and been puzzled.
Nice video. I am from Sri Lanka, working as surgeon in Australia since 2006.I know Dr. R Strong when I was in Brisbane. I am shocked to see how many people get convicted false convictions in Australia. There is no way to fight with this big bureaucratic machine and most of the law firms refuse to talk for you(most of them get jobs from mistakes done by the bureaucrats and using public money). In my opinion the biggest mistake is public happy to leave it alone and they do the easy option. This makes them stronger and harass more innocent public. I am shocked, saddened and sorry.
Candidly, I was considering that there'd be an engineering angle to the story. Happy for your positive outcome, and experience in court. Did the Crown provide you with disclosure as required? They often don't in these matters. The state has an obligation to prove every element of an alleged offence beyond reasonable doubt. I've always forced them to take me to court. I do it on principle. I reckon that everyone should have the court experience as an observer. Sit through half a day of magistrates, district, and supreme court sessions. They can be anything from boring, exciting, and horrific. Highly recommended.
Last week a copper pulled me over for excessive speeding, He said “Mate, you’ll do your license for this speed” I just laughed and laughed in his face……. Told him the jokes on you, Cu#tstable….. I haven’t had a license for over seven years now.
Very good summary of a common court experience. Written statement ✅️ 3 copies ✅️ lawyer ⛔️ (they overcomplicate matter) I have been in court for driving matters 3 times, and received a section 10.1a for all 3. My rule is, go when the fine seems to go agaist natural justice (ie doesnt pass the pub test). I dont have a particularly good record, and I do pay all my fines and cop all the points with no complaint. To be fair to Service NSW and Revenue NSW, the people reviewing the fines aren't afforded flexibility to give leniencey. Its a politically hot topic, and needs some leadership from above!
Hi mate i have gen y suspension hitch it adds around 300mm extension of the tow bar and weighs around 30kg in your option does this hitch add any extra benefits for heavy towing i have a 76 series landcruiser with a gvm of 3900kg and tow a van with a a atm of 2600kg. Thankyou
I had a similar story involving a red light camera. I had stopped at an intersection wanting for the lights to turn green to turn right. The lights turned green and I crept forward, only to realise that the green light was for motorists going straight through. There was a red arrow, so I wasn’t meant to turn right. I was part-way through the intersection and a tram was coming behind me, so I cautiously continued with my right turn to avoid making a bad situation even worse. I got a fine in the mail: 3 demerit points and a penalty of around $300. I objected, saying that I shouldn’t be fined the same as a person deliberately speeding and trying to beat the red light. I offered to accept a fine of $100 and 1 demerit point for my extenuating circumstances, as my culpability was at a far lower level. This reasonable request was refused. It’s clear a ‘One size fits all’ approach’. I then appealed to the Magistrates Court. I pointed out in my appeal that when you’re at a red light waiting to turn left or right and there is a red arrow, sometimes you don’t see it as you are focusing on the main lights in front of you, which are red. Then when your red arrow changes to green, sometimes you might not be aware of this, so someone behind you toots their horn, and then you proceed. This point and my previous points convinced the Prosecutors when they looked at my circumstances to withdraw their case the day before it was listed for court. PRO TIP: Don't waste your money on lawyer’s fees! On the day of the hearing, Magistrate are obviously far too busy to read a lengthy submission. It's not the High Court here John, just a meat factory! Do what I did. I made my case before the court date, by spending all that time and effort in preparing a submission for the prosecutor. Common sense prevailed and the Prosecutor decided to withdraw the matter before it went to court.
Correct the yellow or amber light is class as stop, and you can be booked for going through it.. A couple of years ago, I was initially pulled over and booked for going through an orange light.. Making a left-hand turn, the light was green right up to the time I approached the line, the last time I glanced at it, it was definitely green. My only problem was that I was going too slow around the corner and in that time the light changed to amber, then bang I had the red and blue disco light flashing behind me. Upon being pulled over the copper smartly stated that I went through an amber light, I argued the point over and over, but upon issuing me the fine, he f#%ked up and described that I went through a red light instead. Fortunately, I had a witness in the car with me. Long and short, I won the case, it got thrown out of court but cost me a lot more than the potential fine, as it was adjourned 4 times, so time off work to fight it cost was way more, but for me it was the principle that I did not break the law.. Another time before that I was booked for going 4klms over on a 60 zone, I said to the cop you should be out catching real criminals instead of easy money grabbing, that one sure did go down too well.😂😅😂😅
I got a speeding fine about 2 years ago, first one in over 10 years. On the website where you pay is a link where you can upload your driving history and if nothing for 10 years, they wipe it without going to court.
Very well presented John and while there is no leniency from the bureaucrats it’s certainly reassuring to see a common sense and compassionate approach from the law. I live in Canberra and I’m currently visiting Melbourne again and my family constantly remind me that they are absolute zealots here and won’t hesitate to ping you for being 1km/h over the limit. I have found my best course of action is to treat every traffic light like it’s got a camera and just sit at the same speed as the traffic and so far it’s worked. It seems odd sometimes to be cruising along a 3 lane road with an 80km/h limit and no one is doing even 81km/h but that’s exactly the time not to put your foot down.
I love when I visit family in Germany and don’t have to worry about getting pinged for not staring at my speedo the entire time. Getting overtaken by people doing 180 in a 130 zone feels so wrong lol
Melbourne sucks I hate to drive in Melbourne and it will be even worse as the VIC gov is bankrupted, they will install more cameras as they need money!
Frustratingly if it’s an 80 zone all lanes travelling between 50 and 70! Driving in Melbourne is bad, bad, bad. Can’t wait till the population hits the expected 5.9 million 😫
This is interesting in that I had a very similar traffic fine, however when I went to court, the Magistrate, having read my mitigating circumstances, advised me that by pleading guilty, her "hands were tied" and the points MUST stay! She waved the fine, but the points still stayed. Made me realize, I should have plead not guilty even though the camera clearly showed me in breach of the Law
As a former VicPol Constable, we were taught that the reason you pull someone over for a traffic offense is for safety, to stop the continuation of the offense, or because you found them committing the offense and you need to stop them and point the offence out to them so they don't do it again. I never understood how taking pictures of the offender and sending them a fine by mail weeks later has anything to do with safety. It's simply a revenue raising exercise. Some of the Speed Cameras in use by the TOG in Victoria would raise hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue in a matter of a couple of weeks. That was back in the early 1990s when they only had a few of them. I bet it's literally millions a month now.
@@AutoExpertJC I did spend a lot of time on the letter inc pointing out 18yrs since my only other indiscretion, The location and topography i.e. It was after 40km of twisty 40k corners, a long straight downhill.
My last fine was just over 2 years ago, I tried for leniency but failed even though the copper said you should be shown it . I put it down to the lack of funds the government was getting at the time due too the lockdown’s. My crime was. I was travelling on an expressway in a line of 5 cars (I was number 3) up ahead there was a hwy car with a car pulled over (lights on) so I moved into the inside lane to give clearance for the officer standing next to the driver’s door ( no other car in the line did this) unbeknownst to me there was another hwy car just up the road a bit . Next thing I know I’m being pulled over, he showed me the radar gun indicating that I was doing 110 kph and asked me if I had seen the other car with its lights on too which I replied yes that is why I changed lanes. I honestly thought I was doing the right thing with it being a dual lane road but apparently you still have to slow down, anyway he took my details went and did his checks and then returned and asked me whether I have ever had I fine because I’m not in the system, I told him I lost my license in 1989 and have not had one since. The copper then went on to tell me to write a letter and I should get off because of my good record, I asked him why don’t you just give me a caution? To which he claimed he couldn’t. Anyway I wrote the letter, it was denied because of the serious nature of the offence, from memory it was $574 plus 5 points. I never thought about contesting it but after watching your video maybe I should of.😅
Hi john you are extremely lucky. I got snapped by a red light camera for crossing the front line of an intersection to allow and ambulance by. I asked for the photographic evidence and in the 2 pictures provided one had the ambulance and my vehicle the other just my rego plate. I was told that you can't challenge red light cameras under any circumstances
I lost a court case like this- the judge dismissed it within 20 seconds- he didn't like my driving record-but I said thankyou and bowed to the judge. Took my medicine. I never had to pay the court costs. I believe that was because I was polite.
Thanks for the confession and advice John. I have also found if you believe you were pinged incorrectly, you can write a clarifying letter to the police within the 28 day fine payment period requesting the offence be dropped. This can be useful where speed limit signs are obscured or misplaced as sometimes happens around road works. In your case having stopped when you realised the error and not completing the turn (as long as you were not blocking traffic) would also be a saving grace because accidents involving stationary vehicles tend to be less severe. Ultimately of course level 5 FSD is likely the answer in saving you from your brain fades. FSD is certain to save fines, animals, pedestrians, other drivers, vehicles, and also a lot of street furniture.
I was sat in the right turn lane in my work vehicle and someone drove into the rear of the van. This in turn pushed me over the line and the fine camera functioned. When the light turned Green we both pulled over and called police as we were now on an on-ramp to the free way and exchanged information and got a police report number. His vehicle need to be towed as the radiator was damaged. About two weeks later I received a letter informing me of the fine and a picture of me over the line. Sent of the paperwork and an explanation of the events. No, still ordered to pay the fine. So took it too court, 7 months later I ended up in court. 2-3min and I was given a pass and a clean licence. To be fair the proses up until that point was relatively easy. The hardest part was filing for costs (I didn’t use a lawyer) reimbursement for my time was difficult to get back. Thankfully my company helped out and managed to work it all out with me. But it was by far the hardest thing to do with the whole process.
Hi John, and Others. I'm in the UK. I was issued a ticket (months after it happened) for doing 64 mph in a 50 limit. All other single carriageway roads here are 60 zones, so I must have missed this irregular 50 one. I k now, my fault for not noticing the copper with the camera, it was definitely not a permanent camera, I know there isn't one there. But I live in the north of Scotland, and the 'speeding offence' was in south Wales, at least 500 miles south of my home. There was a covid lockdown on at the time. travelling was permitted though, to see family. I was offered a 'Speed Awareness' course in lieu of points and a fine. (The SA course fee is about the same as the fine, but no points on license) My broadband is so poor - NW Scottish Highlands says it all) - that I could not risk an online course, which was on offer during covid times. There was ONE face-to-face course on offer in the whole UK, 350 miles away in England. I ditched it as the whole thing would have cost me twice the fine (at least 700 miles of diesel, a hotel most likely, and 2 days of my life) and the 3 points I would just have to suck up. Having watched your take on this, I really, REALLY wish I'd made the effort to at least avoid points on my license. Better still, I wish I had chosen to go to court, definitely a possibility, but as you pointed out you have to look very closely at whatever paperwork They send to find that option. I am 66, been riding 2 wheels and 4 for 50 years now, only one previous 3-pointer - very similar 60+ in a 50 which any punter would have assumed was a 60, much misleading road furniture or lack thereof etc - so hardly a rebel rouser, me! I drive for economy usually, this is one of my pet things: if you have little money, drive whatever wheels you have with restraint. Keep your old jalopy properly maintained, keep your right foot light. If there should ever be a next time, I might well follow your example...
I have also fronted up to probably the same local court as yourself for a Section 10. I got the disqualification down to 1 month (45ish over) with no previous offenses. It was roadworks on the M1 down to 60 and a lapse in concentration meant I was still doing $1.00 when coming into it. Still paid the $2000 odd fine. On the flip side, another young gent was caught doing 25 over, no licence, unregistered vehicle and no seat belt. He fine got reduced to $500 and no further disqualification. I felt it was an injustice that my punishment from 10pm at night when there is actually no roadwork happening was worse than the other blokes. I guess when I show up sharply dressed in a suit compared the other other bloke who was in a ripped Kmart shirt, the judge thought maybe I could afford it.
Hi thanks for your video's very helpful, My son has received his first traffic offence fine for crossing a blocked railway crossing, but without stopping he proceeded at 5 or 10 km. Per hr. and when he reached the vehicle in front of him that had stopped illegally on the yellow grid he used his right blinker and used the painted island on the right (no double line around it just one single line) to continue along the island for approximately 20 mtrs. Which put him straight ont a right turning lane putting him at line where he had stopped to wait for a green light. We were permitted to watch the video that a highway patrol officer had taken 20 days before we received the ticket in the mail. We were not permitted to record the footage with our phone. We were told a second ticket could have been issued for using the traffic island for access to the right turning lane. Do we know the law better than a highway patrol officer ? We did ask for leniency but my son was given a big lecture and I was disrespected I lost my cool slightly he told me I had no business there and should leave so I waited in the car park for my son. To conclude it is leagle in QLD. to use a single lined island to access a right turn lane therefore no infringement. My son is now asking for the charges to be dropped by email this time explaining he understands the law about traffic Islands. I have been fined wrongly at least twice 4 times in about 1 mil. Kms. Two of which I got off. I have taught my 4 sons don't accept guilt before thoroughly checking everything. Cheers from Peter.
I actually got leniency. In fact you get it automatically if you know to apply for it AND have a ten year clean record. I did it online and the result came back within 5 minutes of my submission.
Apparently Automatic Leniency does not apply to; red light offences mobile phone offences high speed offences school zone offences other traffic offences where safety issues were identified. So that is why you were refused and mine went through immediately. I was just caught in a Revenue Camera.
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Give up driving
Be honest, you pulled out your sovereign citizen 'travelling' card and the judge bought it.
Seriously, the leniency people need their heads read in your case.
I drive a truck and was turning left at an intersection , as there were pedestrians walking in front of the truck the lights had turned orange then red and I was caught in no man’s land . I was forced to make the turn on red , as a result it triggered the cameras. I appealed to state revenue and was also rejected even though the photographic evidence was overwhelming. Feeling an injustice here, I took the matter to court ,the magistrate found in my favour and was awarded a section 10. Like you I formed a strong opinion of state revenue
Great job, well done.
Around 20 years ago I was a regular donator (around $500 per annum) to the kids charity that the police run here in Queensland. I was stopped on a country road by a traffic cop who jumped out from behind a bush and got me for doing 83 in an 80 zone. No leniency was given or asked for, however I did mention to him that I’ll be using my charity donation to pay the fine if it goes through…and guess what….the prcik lodged it anyway. Needless to say that they have lost around $10k in donations over that time as I now refuse to help the cops out at all. Oh, it was the only speeding ticket I’ve ever had.
You should’ve asked for leniency
I call BS. Cops don’t fine you for doing 3 over
@@hectorshouse7348, shouldn’t have needed to mate….another jobsworth cop "just following orders".
@@captbadger3153, whatever mate.
So you were only "giving to the kids" coz you thought it would get you off a speeding fine? I think there is a word for that.
About 10 years ago I had to collect an engineer from Sydney Airport, complete with his 35 kgs toolbox. As I arrived at the airport I saw him standing at the kerb, so I stopped in a pull-in space, just past the entrance, to allow him to get in. As I got out of the car a ranger appeared from nowhere and shouted something to me. I could not hear what he was saying because of the traffic and walked over to hear what he was saying. He told me that I could not stop where I was and that he was going to write me a ticket. I told him that I could not see anything saying I could not stop there and that I would move the car immediately. By this time the engineer was in the car and we left. Next day a ticket arrived in the post (thanks for the brilliant service Australia Post!) with a hefty fine, not for stopping or parking, but for failing to obey the instructions of a ranger.
All of my work colleagues told me that it was pointless to try to appeal the ticket, but I gave it a go anyway. I rang the number on the ticket and explained what had happened. I also said that I had obeyed with the ranger’s instructions and moved my car immediately. To my surprise I received a letter a few days later cancelling the fine because after speaking to the ranger he had admitted that I moved the car immediately. The letter also said that they would not issue me with a parking fine as the parking notice was obscured by another sign and thanking me for pointing this out to them,!
Had a similar experience at Karratha airport. Circling in and out of the airport car park waiting for a delayed flight. So thought I'll just stop on this gravel strip and run inside and see when they expect the bloody thing to land.
I went past the parking inspector who said nothing to me. I get out he was writing a ticket.. he refused to communicate with me until he had finished.. very rude.
No sign.. not obstructing emergency services.. not too near the building.. not on any garden.. all these things he tried to tell me I'd done wrong.
All he could tell me was that it was a reserve marked on councils website.. like who looks up councils website before parking a car for a few minutes.
I wrote a huge letter to council about it and how they had violated their own motto about educating the public as he saw me park and didn't even tell me then.. move on.
I told council I take it to court or they can drop it.
They dropped it.
As a former aircraft engineer at Sydney, I wish my toolbox only weighed 35kg. 🙂🇦🇺
Now that's how you would expect your employees to work for you....
This video is way more useful than every single piece of "Is it legal to...?" and "Is it illegal to...?" clickbaity horseshit produced by Drive and CarExpert combined. Congrats on the win, John.
Thanks very much, Tone.
Drive yes, car expert no. Paul at car expert is one of the only decent car journos we have in Australia.
I applied for a leniency review for an 80 in a 60 speeding fine and it was granted so it can happen. In my favour was a 10 year clean driving record and the infringement wasn’t in a school zone.
@@dansearle7024 CE itself is one of the better automotive sites out there and I appreciate a lot of the content they put out, but their recent series of "Is it legal?" articles have cheapened the site just a tad. Honest personal opinion.
@@AutoExpertJC I think you had a fair magistrate on the day that took your prior exemplary record into consideration. Thanks all the same for the tips about section 10 and just to say nothing when a police officer puts words into your mouth saying Did you realise you went through a red light.
Over forty years ago I got off a parking fine, somewhat like John I was guilty as charged.
I parked on a street near a shopping centre the day before Mother's day contrary to a no parking sign that read no parking in the hours I was there. When I got the fine in the mail I noticed that the cop had written on the fine that the sign had read no parking x hours Monday to Friday, no mention of Saturday. Aha, a loop hole, I when to court, and pleaded not guilty, and told the magistrate that the date of the offence was on a Saturday, they checked the calendar and the case was dismissed. The magistrate muttered that maybe the police should read the signs properly. :)
They never paid attention at school, so what can you expect from them? Why do you think they became police, engineering was too boring easy for them?
#You'reAcop?ShouldHavePaidAttentionAtSchool
A day in court is definitely a life-affirming experience. It forces you to confront the reality of the lives of many people out there while you wait for your turn.
True, Andrew. It does.
Another interesting court day is domestic violence day. In my line of work, I had to sit through one of those days at Campbelltown court....whoah!!
spot on, ATM on wheels. It drives me nuts when you cop a fine for 3klms over a 100klm limit on a road that presents the best possoble conditions for driving.
Yes, agreed mate. At the same time, people who've been disqualified for 10 years seem to drive whenever they want...
@@kenwilliams3279 road conditions, so on a freeway that you'd be doing 100mph in the UK.
@@kenwilliams3279 would it be prudent to go 100 km/h on a motorway when it is heavily raining and you can barely see the car in front of you? After all, the sign does say 100 km/h on it and you wouldn't want to be charged with impeding traffic on a busy motorway? Fact of the matter is distance between vehicles and paying attention to the road is what saves lives, not merely speed. Germany doesn't have a speed limit for much of their motorways and yet they have a much lower fatality rate than Australia. Why is that?
@j2simpso Possibly because the people causing the killings on our roads now have never been told about Hitler, Stalin or Bin chicken Laden and don't know the repercussions of being a c#%t.
In other words, we have a lot of brain dead, entitled mother lover's on our roads who think and act just like the fore mentioned and get away with it.
@@j2simpso Probably because the Autobahn has dual lanes and everyone drives to their comfort level without having to overtake on the wrong side of the road.
As a child in the USA in the 1960s, the high school driver ed program showed films of bodies being removed from accident cars. To say this made an "impact" on our minds is understatement.
Yep, In Australia I remember these videos at school in the 80's... it still is in my memory! 😂
Great story John.
I got a low level revenue camera fine in NSW some years ago and the paperwork that came with it really reflected what it was about. The cheesy "PAY NOW" written all over it made it look more like a cash grab than any other bill I've received in my life.
And they wonder why people have a negative view of over-zealous enforcement of minor traffic offences...
Its not just about the money mate. Can you imagine the strain on the system if every man an his dog was encouraged to apply for leniency and take every matter to court?
Awesome video! I just wished this had come out about an year ago. I would have helped me keep my NZ DL record clean. Long story short I bought a car from a seller in another city and go pulled over for going above the speed limit maybe 300 meters after entering an intersection.
I had 70Km/h limit in my mind because that's what it was before that intersection but as I pulled out of the petrol station after a quick stop for a snack, that stretch of road was now 50Km/h. It was an honest mistake and as soon as I saw the police lights on the opposite lane I knew it was for me. I pulled over so quickly that I had already stopped when I saw the police officer drive past me on the other side and then do an U-turn. I explained all this to him and he still gave me a ticket. When I questioned him about why not just give me warning and send me on my merry way, he said "If you get pulled over, you get a ticket". That was it, he couldn't have made it any clearer that road safety was not the focus here.
Earlier that day I flew from Wellington to Nelson to buy a car and was going to do the long drive through Lewis Pass in order to get back to Picton to jump on the ferry back to Welly. The main roads between Nelson and Blenheim were blocked due damage cause by heavy storm a week prior.
His words stuck with me. It was an honest mistake, maybe I missed the 50Km/h sign as I entered this new stretch of road. After all it was a city I had never been to before. I complied, as soon as I saw his lights I thought "did I really just go a bit too fast? I'll pull over then". I answered all his questions respectfully. He asked me what was the reason for speeding and I said I didn't realise I was speeding and I apologised for it if I did. Car was mine and in my name. My records were up to date in the system and my home address matched. I had no fines for over 10 years. The whole ordeal just left me with a sour taste in my mouth about police in general in New Zealand. Still remember about 18 years ago when I came to this country for the first time, that I got pulled over and the officer then explained what I had done wrong and still let me go. He said he'd keep an on out for me in case I did it again, and that he wouldn't let me leave without a fine if it happened again. He educated me and he did not have to reach into my wallet to do it.
I heard people complain that it is now all a cash grab operation and I didn't agree. For years I didn't believe it. Always thought they must have done something utterly wrong and they deserved getting a ticket. I guess I was wrong. I guess I should have contested it. I don't think this was fair and now I can't do anything about it. I hit the PAY NOW button and moved on.
Thank you for the enlightenment moment John... =)
Well done John!
I'm a criminal lawyer in UK. The best words I can hear from the judge is that they don't want to hear from me (or read my submissions). That means I've won. If the judge wants to find against me, he has to be seen to be hearing from me (or reading my stuff).
About ten years ago, I was travelling to work on my motorcycle (something I didn't usually do) when I tripped a speed camera on James Ruse drive just before the M4. I was travelling from my home in Windsor. I had planned to use the bike in stead of the train on two days as I was covering for one of my security guards just before Christmas( I was the supervisor of the site we worked at).
I was oblivious to the camera fine at the time. The next day, apparently, I was pinned again for the same thing. I was allegedly doing 80 in a 70 zone.
At the time I was just moving with what little traffic was on the road at that time of the morning. I received the fines about one month after the actual date of the act.
What bugged me the most about these fines is the time it took to arrive at my house. When you get pulled over by the police, you instantly look at your speed and you have an idea whether you were actually guilty. This acts as a motivation to be more aware of your speed and the speed limit you are travelling through.
Getting the fines one month later made me feel like I was taking part in revenue raising. The part of the 4 lane highway I was trapped at had constantly changing speeds and just before the camera was a 90 zone.
I took it court. I was presented with a folder by the prosecution which contained the said camera's maintenance schedule as well as pictures of me riding down the road.
When asked by the Magistrate how fast did I think I was going, I answered "I have no idea". I said all I could attest to was I was riding safely. Having received the fines so long after the incident I had no clue as to the speed I was travelling or, indeed, that I had been pinged by the camera.
My record was similar to John's and I was issued a Section 10.
One thing different was I still lost all of my points (double demerits were in force at the time). The State authorities said they had proved their case so their penalty still stood. I didn't have to pay the fine but I had to pay court costs (about $50).
Happy you got off. No harm done. No crash. No injuries. You never even crossed the junction. All good. I have a completely different view of how fair courts are regarding traffic offences. My father whilst assisting another motorist who had broken down got hit by a drunk driver that had left the road. The other guy whose car was broken down, lost his legs. My dad spent 6 weeks in traction. Damaged legs and back. And had continuous back pain the remainder of his life. The drunk got off with a fine. My mother on the way to work was killed in a head on car crash. The van that hit her was on her side of the road. The driver of which had multiple driving offenses against his name. Hit her at a time when he should have already clocked on at work miles away. So was running late. Come to your own conclusions. But got off with no offense recorded. Having killed someone. Just last week I was driving along quite legally. When bang a car hit me from the side. Unregistered car. No Insurance. A young bloke had done a U turn straight into me. Police don't want to know. Non injury traffic accident. Yet the car wasn't registered. Isn't that an offense. And now my insurance is playing hard ball about what they will pay for. When none of it was my fault. So am I enamoured about how fair and wonderful our Police and justice system are. Not in the least.
Yes road $aftey is all about $tate revenue $treams. When govt has a budget revenue expectation it has nothing to do with safety.
It's a money-making machine.
@@AutoExpertJC that only punishes the poor as a fine is at least 50% of a poor person's pay
Yeah tell that to the families of the dead in the Hunter Valley crash. There’s a reason fines and motivation to drive safely exist.
@@whomcares3438 People who don't care will not care, fines large or small won't make a difference...
@@whomcares3438 you're confused
Well done John after all you have done for road safety. Justice served!
Even if that wasn't considered mate...
Thanks!
John, I wish you could do some videos where you interview people, or chair a panel discussion about various subjects, with experts, regulators, etc. You cut through the BS like no other journalist in the whole world and have the knack of making a complex idea or situation digestable and understandable by regular people. Great video.
Well done John. My approach in court was far more reckless, arguing that it wasn't for me to decide my guilt/innocence and this was the magistrate's sole "raison d'etre". DPP said for the plea to be entered as not guilty. Asked for the record to show that the DPP's comment was presumptuous. Session was stood down for a later hearing. The protection officer on duty said I was the most entertaining case all day :-) Received a letter in the mail a week later telling me my fine was dismissed on "technical grounds".
A lawyer friend told me later that this was code for getting rid of minor infringements where the cost recovery wasn't worth it - all about the citizens being revenue ATMs as you pointed out.
Coincidentally, never seen a speed camera infringement in the mail since.
Decent judges who use their powers of discretion as needed and as intended are so important in democratic societies. For all the issues in this country, being able to talk to a competent real person in the judiciary when shit hits the fan is almost all their is separating this country from a 3rd rate dictatorship.
Agreed. I saw the magistrate as a much needed check between me and rampant revenue raising.
You mean the same ones who give lenient sentences to violent criminals and repeat offenders who go on to do irreversible harm?
great recounting of your experience. noteworthy is that yes, you may have lost 3 points and copped 454 dollar fine, but an unknown hidden cost is the 40 months it takes to reclaim your third party insurance premium discount, which can amount to an additional $600 dollars over that time. Frank
Good point, Frank. I hadn't considered that knock-on cost.
Excellent advice John! Like you I take pride in my long term, 30+years, years clean driving license (and that last time was a minor and honest mistake) . I try hard to maintain my good record because doing so makes the road safer for everyone. So if I ever get a fine, it will be an honest error, and having now seen this video, I will seek leniency. Thank you Sir! Your advice is highly valued!
I’m off to court at the end of this month. Your vlog has validated my submission approach. I thought I may have over egged the pudding but I am feeling more comfortable thanks to you. Much appreciated. Regards Lin
"...stop fighting when you win..."
I heard another version of that, "If you're winning shut up".
In a similar vein, I like the old quote attributed to Napoleon: "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake".
Great, but did the magistrate screw your submission up and throw it across the court to the bin? Yessss
I wish he had... but: his fat cave, his rules...
I reckon he read it for sure later with his afternoon coffee, everyone in the Prosecutors office would have had a read too. All would have been impressed and recognised the effort you put into it, he knew it when you handed it up, you got credit for giving a shit and being PREPARED. 👏💪
As a retired police officer, I always advised anyone that I ticketed to go to court. I too, received two citations once when still sworn and once after I retired. Both times I attended court and the results were positive. ALWAYS go to court.
Thats how most states in the USA got rid of speed cameras. Everyone opted to go to court that was pingged speeding. Clogged up the court system massively. The backlog was so huge they had to turn the cameras off. Many government departments had loans or fees to pay to have the cameras and have them maintained even though they were not being used. It was deemed financially unviable to have them outside of a patrol car situation and they got rid of most of them. People seen them for what they were, speed cameras not safety cameras.
Only corporations go to court
You're a wanker for giving people tickets in the first place.
Dear Mr. Cadogan: In my 53 years of driving, I am not proud to say that I've gotten about 30 citations. With two exceptions, I went to court on each one. I won on ALL but one of them ( and there I got a reduced sentence). I always go to court unless I'm so obviously and egregiously guilty. Getting older has turned me into an ( almost) model driver, I've gotten no citations in the last decade.. You are quite right about the value of going to court prepared and in a respectful mien. That, alone, has served me well. Congratulations on your victory. If I lived in Oz, instead of 'merica, I'd ask for a copy of your pleading to the court. Others may be interested in it though. Your fan, Dennis Wolterding
Where I grew up, you are required to display a current tax disc on the windscreen of your car. Walking with Dad as a kid through the village he idly commented that ever car parked on the stretch from the green to the police station had an out of date tax disc. He mentioned this to a passing policeman. "Mind your business" was the curt reply. So it was ok for the cops to drive without paying car tax on their private cars. But I'm sure that policeman would have had no problem ticketing a car he didn't recognise further up the village streets ....
22:52 Same thing happened to me - many moons ago my daughter stopped breathing and was taken by ambulance with my wife to Westmead hospital, I followed them in my car and got a speeding fine (under 15 km at the time). I was young and explained the situation so what did they do, took some 20 minutes to issue me a fine. This happened at 3am with only myself and the ambulance on the road.
Thank you John, excellent story telling and you really should have been a lawyer! Been enjoying your TH-cam content for a few years now - I keep coming back.
Thank you very much. I appreciate you watching.
As a 78 yr old driver I can tell you John that your little lapse of concentration is the first of an ever increasing number of lapses as you age, so hopefully you learned from this and work actively to constantly evaluate your behaviour, reactions etc and adjust your behaviour accordingly. I've had to do this, coming up with refreshment strategies, planning trips carefully etc. so far successfully, fingers crossed.
Like yourself John, my driving licence matters (not a motoring journalist but a truck driver). Going back about 10 years, I was about my job (multi-drop HR truck in Sydney) and I turned right at a set of traffic lights 4 minutes before the 9:00am curfew ended - it was a regular run but on this occasion I was a bit early and I wasn't watching the clock. I got pulled by the HWP who issued a ticket and because I've got a national HVDL the penalties double. I got off the penalties because my licence was clean, but what left a sour taste was that the NSW HWP was there at 8:54am at all.
From Adelaide back to Victoria, there was one town with a lower speed limit than the others on the highway (60km/h vs 80km/h or something similar). After 4 or 5 towns slowing to 80km/h, I was pulled up by SA highway patrol. When he told me I was speeding I thought he was joking. Fair enough, all the other towns slow to 80km/h, but this one just happens to be 60km/h. The towns all seemed similar, with no reason for the lower speed limit, and I told him this. It came across as a scam, but suffice to say I paid attention from then on, in case of any more SA traffic department trickery.
A mate of mine had a cop on a motorcycle pull out in front of him once, years ago. He ran over him. They tried everything to charge my mate for the crash but witnesses all said the cop was at fault. Everywhere he went from that day, he had a cop behind him, until he sold the car
yep this is the way... The force is a giant mob like structure, they will tighten a net around you and act like your a murderer. Been there done that, i always thought i could trust the police.... yeah... no.
Pity the subsequent owners of that shit magnet rego!
cool story bro.. you should know that police can pull the vehicle rego details for any name and/or address, so if they really wanted to harass your mate, he would have to move interstate.
If he had installed a rear camera on that car, there would have been some very interesting long term footage...
Old wives tail from years ago
Well done on the outcome; congratulations John! It's a bit different in WA, but some excellent tips that apply to driving anywhere... thanks!
Yes John I can relate to a seniors moment. Done the same at a set of lights whilst heading out west via the blue mountains for work at an unfamiliar intersection at 6am. Got one car length then realised it was a green arrow. No traffic so proceeded safely as I couldnt reverse and didnt want to remain there until traffic did arrive. On another point the cops really need to clamp down on wankers that tailgate and idiots that remain in the right lane after overtaking.
Agreed Mark. It's easy to fuck up in minor ways, and enforcement priorities are broken.
Tailgating is my pet hate, multiple experiences of getting rear-ended, even cars totalled...
Aggressively overtaking on the right lane, after they've prevented you from changing lanes AND freeing the left one for them is another one!
As a lawyer myself, all of this checks out. First video I’ve ever seen on TH-cam giving accurate legal information
Thank you very much. I did a lot of research.
@@AutoExpertJCthanks for replying! I love your content. Not much of a revhead, but I now check my tyre pressure fortnightly so there’s that. 😅
The prosecutor should have dropped the case and it should never have gone to the court. This proves it that its a revenue raising exercise and nothing to do with road safety. Had John just driven off and not stopped then yes he should have been fined then.
The prosecutor would know absolutely nothing about that matter until it was mentioned. It then falls on the rms if it goes to a hearing.
Hi John, I have been driving in NSW for longer than you. I have actually applied for and granted leniency on two occassions. Once a speed camera coasting down the hill in the M1 Woolloomoloo tunnel and the second time turning right in the AM peak hour when it was not permitted at that time. I often turned right there in the evening and didn't realise it until half way through the turn and decied the safest was to keep going.
I had both offences changed to a caution. I wrote a letter asking for leniency and the deciding factor was that it had been ten years between offences. (In the ACT it is five years.) So if you've haven't had an offence in over ten years, ask and you have a good chance of getting off.
However, the Queensland Police Force are mongrels.
I was pinged in Brisbane by a speed camera doing 64km/h in a 60 zone. Late Sunday afternoon, perfect weather, light traffic, good light. The letter arrived in the mail with all the references contained on payment methods, but no alternatives offered, except court appearance. After trawling through various Queensland government web sites I eventually found a postal address for the revenue department to write for leniency. The reply came back saying there is no provision for leniency in the legislation, so pay up or see you in court. Travelling to Brisbane to plead in front of a magistrate was not a reasonable option, so I paid up. Mongrels.
AS John said, speed cameras do not prevent infringements, just record them for issuing fines later.
I appied for leniency. They wrote back claiming leniency was not possible for red light offences.
Great story John. I like the idea of bringing us the story but not being part of it. Years ago, I was pulled over 1 km from home for not wearing a seatbelt - and the copper mentioned that it was a dbl D weekend too. I explained that I was on my way to work, and reversing out the driveway I had to stop and unbuckle to move the wheelie bin. Anyway, he let me off with a warning, and to try to make good on that gesture, I sent a company wide email telling them about it, reinforcing the importance of seatbelts, and the safety they will be providing over the coming long weekend. I feel that was the least I could do for the leniency I received.
May I ask a question John?
My car was towed by the SA equiv. of the NRMA. When the car was towed after breakdown the tow bloke was asked if he could do a diagnostic to determine the issue/s. When I attended the yard to sort repairs at a BMW approved repairer, I found my cars transmission, amongst other parts, strewn all over the workshop. No diagnostic was done he simply pointed at my torque converter and said there's the problem. He then asked me will it fit in your car and to take it home because they don't fix transmissions. I know the scam well as I lost my engine, turbo system and exhaust for a diagnosis on a pinpoint oil leak. $22,000.00 later I sold the car with major issues. ( Toyota Surf ).
What do I do to get around the one sided tribunal rubbish, get my car put back together and stop this from happening to others as it seems to be his regular thing.
I love your work, advice and attitude dude. You're the man.
Judges are pretty awesome. Had a few hearings in the last year whereby some false accusations were made. Victoria Police is pretty much forced to act even in the complete absence of evidence. Saw two different judges and they both said the accusations were serious but they also realised there was no evidence. Used a lawyer for one hearing but he was useless. So self represented and the judge was prepared to show heaps of procedural leniency. From my experience they like you to be honest and humble. They have very little time for lawyers that fumble their words and get things wrong. It always helps to be prepared and know what outcomes you could expect. Leave the ego and attitude at home.
Great video, coming in from south australia, great perspective. The irony is it is much harder to get a fine now with all the warning systems in a new car. 20 years ago I had a bad run, mainly as it was hard to tell all the different speed limits etc. Now with a new car everything is on the display. In adelaide 10min from city the speed limits are 20, 40, 50 and 60 and all the roads look identical. Great video re eye opening, will tale my kids in to court as they get closer to driving.
I had one recently where I was driving 8km UNDER the limit in a tunnel when the speed limit was suddenly varied down to 60km and I was booked on the camera.
I wanted to take it to court, but I ended up deciding the $150 fine wasn't worth losing a day over... Which I'm sure is the conclusion they wanted me to come to.
Thanks for your video John, I found it very helpful and my circumstances here in Brisbane are very similar to yours. A good mate of mine recommended I watch this video (btw my mate's opinion of you was less than favourable, I believe due to the small portion of what he had viewed ie. your "wacky out there" sales pitch style at the beginning of your clips). My driving record is very important to me and prior to this incident, in the past decade (at least) or two, my driving history show's 1 blemish from February this year (2023) when my 15 year old daughter decided to place her seatbelt under her left arm in the passenger seat, during a drive up the M1 after a day at Wet'n Wild (obviously without my knowledge until after the fact). I have also recently been through a civil court battle (I instigated), self representing in the Federal Circuit Court of Australia, so I am now quite well versed in Court procedures and etiquette..........before watching your clip, I was probably edging towards just paying the fine, but now maybe you have supplied me with another option and some confidence in the possible outcome - thank you for making the effort to share your experience with the rest of Australia.
Storytime: While on my L's on my bike back in 2020 I think, I was sent a fine in the mail for 71 in a 60 zone. It appeared the details were correct. It had the licence plate for my bike etc. However, I couldn't remember riding in that location that was given. I did my best to look up this location and Google Maps said it was in Sydney, I have never ridden in Sydney so that was odd. However, I thought well maybe I am just not finding this road name in the right location and had thought about just paying the fine. I didn't end up doing that. I got home ( I was out when I read the letter) anyway once home I found my way to the camera image (the better quality one) and saw that it couldn't have been me cause I couldn't even recognise the location. Also, it wasn't my bike and it wasn't me. I downloaded the photo, zoomed in on the number plate and was able to determine the actual plate number. So I called up to contest with my reasoning and the girl on the phone was great, she advised me to contest in writing so that's what I did and it was removed from me as the offender. It is always important to confirm whether or not you are actually the one committing the offence. Not just pay it cause it might seem too difficult. I could have ended up with money gone and points on my licence for something I didn't do. Letting someone else off the hook. This also would have done in my record that has been clean since I finished my red p suspension back in the day at 17, 31 at the time of the notice in the mail for the bike.
I had the same in Melbourne many years ago. I got a speeding fine in the mail, and found it odd as I didn't remember driving in that location before. The camera photo showed a completely different car & number plate to mine, but from memory the car was the same colour as mine. It was easy to clear up.
Hey John my brother Glenn went to court dressed as Leo Wanka to oppose a revenue collecting fine for truck exhaust stacks a few inches too high while it was on a trailer. ie the prime mover added to height of the trailer it was on while it was being transported for repairs. He said the fine in court was worth every cent as he accepted it gracefully while one of his mates took the photos of him with LEO WANKA written on the back of his overalls fronted up. Both he and all the truckies in this country have had enough. No section 10 1a unfortunately even though the average truckie doesn't have access to the precise right angle measuring rulers that the rta inspector used to reach the top of the stacks from the road surface. Good on you for a good driving record. great show.
In Danistan it’s called section 76, Sentencing Act. Proven and dismissed. Regularly used by people with no prior convictions. If you hold recent prior convictions (within the last 10 years), good luck. If you hold none, usually minor offending without mandatory sentences e.g. drink or drug driving, you’ll likely get the opportunity of section 76.
Points still count tho
I am also in NSW and I put in an appeal on line and got off because of the clean slate for 32 years...They did however say that the shiny record(Which remains) wouldn't stand if I was to appeal another in the next few years...Cost....$00000000. and 0 points.
This is making me wish I'd contested the "failure to STOP" at a STOP sign fine I received a few years ago. I decided I couldn't afford to lose a case and probably would, but it would have been fun.
My defence would have had two parts. Firstly, I had stopped and I believe I did so far enough back from the line that I could see the entire road to my right but the cop's view of me was obscured by a hedge, which was the same colour as my car. More importantly I found that NZ legislation contained no definition of "stop" other than that a "stop" is a "complete stop". Without invoking Zeno's arrow I believed I could have argued that this is too subjective to be meaningful. For what duration must the vehicle make no observed movement and what duration of "stop" can a human perceive? Does it vary between humans? Is perception affected by whether a vehicle creeps very slowly to a possible stop, or stops like an F1 car achieving a 0.1 second pit stop. At what distance and viewing angle can a human perceive this? Does a reading of 0 on a monitored vehicle log constitute proof of a stop (even if the software has rounding) and so on. Oh what fun it might have been.
30 minutes of an old man rambling then 10 minutes of how good am I.
I take it he has no one else to impress than those on YT
Well you are not impressing anyone on TH-cam...His got more subscribers than you or me. And unlike you or me he produces his own videos and content. So your in no position to poke sh..t at him mate...
@@kimw200blaze4 Guess what? I dont want subscribers and I dont care what anyone thinks about me because I do not think about you at all. All my videos are of my own creation and I do not need to speak one word to make money unlike this sad old man and his Fanboys.
Honestly i think a huge amount of the reduction in deaths from all causes can be attributed to the mobile phone the fact that when every minute counts near everyone has an phone on them that they can instantly call for help
And how good are navigation aids that tell you when to make turns.. no more fumbling with maps and trying to remember a string of street names in heavy traffic.
@@gppsoftware that makes sense because of how it all works if it automatically paired it could just pair with cars as you walk pass them, the pairing of devices needs some form of security because once paired both devices are open to all sorts of data access
i understand your predictiment i drove in a coach through a red light in alice springs there was one intersection after another and at the last minuite saw that the second light was red, i hit the anchors and stopped with the back wheels just over the line, but when the lights changed the traffic could not move because i had the intersection blocked so decided to clear the road but there was a traffic inspector right behind me. he pulled me over i explained my situation he asked if i had any pasengers on board when it was no he let me go
Way back in the early 90’s my shit navigator says right turn here as we about to pass the street. There was no other cars on the road. The rear tyres let out the barest of squeals. Next thing I know there is a cop car racing up behind. I waited for them to put their lights on before pulling over. They asked why the tyres squealed. I explained that I had almost missed the turn. They then said they could have made the turn without squealing a wheel and perhaps my car wasn’t road worthy. I pointed out that they were driving a brand new cop car and I was driving a 15 year old kingswood with 400kg of DJ and lightning on board so their comparison was somewhat skewed. They gave up trying to get me to admit to anything and gave me a warning.
I got leniency on “no P Plate” and “rego label (remember those?) on the side instead of rear” on my motorcycle as a mature returning rider. I wrote a letter stating that the P-Plate was on at the start of my journey (which it was & had a witness) and the rego label was where the dealer fitted to the new bike (where they fit all) and they wrote back & said “make sure you fit P-Plate securely. you won’t get it a second time…”
I know of at least 960 aplications for review in NSW that where bulk proceeded to collection because the number of requested reviews where to high. So so wrong.
They are cocks. Complete cocks.
It's also illegal to say a fine has been reviewed when it hasn't. I attended a meeting where it was explained how they did it. I even lost my job trying to have those fines reviewed. I've got the email that list about half of them.
John Cadogan this must be one of your best U Tube presentations , normally I think you are a full ship . You have proven me wrong I enjoyed your story telling kudos to you loved it immensely 🌟😎👏🎉
It didn't take you 3 minutes to get off scott free, it took you 259,600 minutes...bit of a difference dude
When you look at it like that...
Those are heavily multitasked minutes there. So much so that it's likely actually closer to 3
And that paperwork shown them you shown effort
Also in NSW there is the option for a Work and Development Order. You need to meet certain criteria, but if successful instead of paying the fine you can do a course, volunteer work, or similar, for x hours based on the fine amount.
I love this idea.
I have the impression that the Australian red light cameras have far less mercy than the ones here in the UK. Last time I was in Australia I saw red light cameras flash at cars where the light must have only been red for a fraction of a second. In my mind, this silly level of enforcement is highly dangerous by making you brake harder on an orange with little regard to who may hit you from behind...
These flashes may of been for speeding and not red-light offences. They are also a speed camera. So the driver may have l
Flawed it to pass the orange light but got to 55km and hour and booked....
Red light camera's have grace periods; eg, 0.5 of a second on red in an 80 k/p/h zone.
Yep. Red light cameras reduce tbones and increase Liberaces
@@cme2cau Liberaces.. that's a rear-end crash for those youngsters that don't get the slang.
Red light scameras lead to an increase in intersection accidents as people at these places are now too quick to hit the brakes. And who can blame them.
I totally agree with you that government treats motorists as ATM machines, it's all about the money and not much about just safety.
In saying in 1982 that I was booked for staying over the time limit in liverpool while I went to see the real estate agent.
I sent a letter to NSW revenue asking for leniacy and I was let off the fine.
Another incident I was booked for not fully stopping at a stop sign back in 1985 and wrote the NSW revenue, I was asked to attend an evening lecture about traffic and driving but I didn't have to pay the fine or lose any points
The "system" screws the average person at the end of the day there is less money in your pocket. However watching "dash cam type videos" on youtube shows lunatics speeding through red lights , four wheels jives driving over footpaths and physical centre islands and then through red lights on the wrong side of the road seemingly immune to being caught.
the difference with those types is that they know which intersections have camera's or they are driving cars with stolen plates, so don't care if their plate gets recorded..
I wish I was as articulate as you, John. I appreciate your perspective on this.
The Judge probably watches your youtube channel. If it takes 36 years for you to get a ticket, I don't think you need to be worrying about fighting for some silly record by wasting 2 days of your life and 300 dollars just to have a judge not even give a rats ass about your "submission". Whether you paid the ticket or spent the day in court, they still won.
I have a question. I made a silly mistake one evening - after midnight in Vic regional town - illegal u turn(no traffic mind you!)got caught. Pulled me up. Thing is I’m 99.99% sure the officer pulled an illegal u turn over a single line at main intersection afterward... I’ve paid the fine, but I wondered whether to bring that to their attention in written letter. The GPS would be the only evidence. I have left it go thinking it might be a hassle... IBAC? thoughts??
John's car might appear on Dash Cam Owners Australia YT channel at some time in the near future.
Wait a minute, his car may already have been starred on DCOA channel given that the offence happened months ago.
Great video, with many salient points. I live in QLD, and the one aspect of enforcement of road rules that absolutely drives (pardon the pun) me crazy, that relates in my opinion to your point on revenue, are the speed camera signs that state ‘Speed Camera…for Road Safety’. They quite clearly should read ‘Speed Camera…for Revenue Raising’, because as you point out, the driver passes through the camera zone at whatever their indiscretion is, and possibly continues their reckless and dangerous speeding, endangering the lives of everyone around them (tongue planted firmly in cheek), until such time as their infringement notice arrives in the mail a week or two later. Whereas most drivers speeding or otherwise, upon seeing a clearly marked police vehicle, tend to immediately check their speed. If road safety was genuinely the goal, more police visibility rather than sneaky, sometimes hidden speed cameras would lead to better outcomes in my opinion.
So with a clean record you might keep it clean.
Still, you only tripped a sensor, you didn't cross a road while processing cross traffic and continue your merry way flipping the finger at the light and camera.
No. Nor was I disqualified, with a kilo of coke in the boot, and four outstanding warrants.
@@AutoExpertJC You live to drive another day. It's nice to still have that option available to you as it presents itself. When you get pulled over, you can inform the constable that you walk through court on the regular. I have my latest leniency declaration right here still, and boy was I guilty... Want to get on my magistrate's bad side, now do you, hero traffic cop? 😀
@@Cloxxki Dirty Harry.. nice.
Your comment about fairness is spot on. Unlike those who are measured on issuing revenue invoices or receiving revenue, magistrates are interested in fairness.
Not everyone/not many will have a clean driving record to rely on, but if the ticket is unfair the magistrate will hear it.
That especially applies to minor offences where the penalty is not fair, like compulsory suspension for minor speeding for provisional licence holders, and the subsequent thousands of dollars increase in insurance premiums.
Note it goes both ways, and if you're trying to fight based on an obscure technicality, it won't go well.
I’ve learnt that rocking up to court with even pretend paperwork has got me off on reasonless doubt multiple times 😂. The magistrate doesn’t care for reading. They are also mostly all quite fair and nice to us non cock heads 👍🏻
Surprised you even got the ticket as cameras are supposed to take multiple photos showing passing the white like and also entering into the intersection. Sounds like you stopped before you fully crossed the line. But good work, you shouldn’t be penalised for an honest brain fart. I’ve often challenged fines and either got off or got leniency 👍🏻
Well done, mate.
Your account at 31:06 reminds me of the movie 'The Perfect Witness' with Aidan Quinn's character, who prepares for a trial and then has a similar pay-off to his preparation (I won't spoil a good film if you haven't seen it).
he gave the judge a free manscape to get off
Probably bored him to death by waffling on and repeating himself over and over as he did in this video.
And a proper wash.
It being pride month, and let's face it, century, he lucked out there not catching a diversity hire magistrate. So awkward when the honest gesture of ass licking is twisted into some vile demeaning predatory action. If I thought it would be considered such, I wouldn't go through the trouble, now would I, your honor?
@@sidecarmisanthrope5927 judge had to have a few nips of whisky after
Now when you say "get off", .......?
@@grantleyhughes Are you surmising I might be less than perfectly washed and groomed, down there, defendant?
Informative and well presented video. Thank you from a slightly corrupt South Africa!
Over 40 years ago I got a parking ticket for parking in a "no stopping" zone on a quite weekend. This was in the days of hand written notices written in duplicate, one for the car window and one for processing. I noticed that the Q in my number plate was written as an O and threw the ticket away. Never heard anything more. The owner of the "O" car might have received a summons 6 months latter and been puzzled.
Nice video. I am from Sri Lanka, working as surgeon in Australia since 2006.I know Dr. R Strong when I was in Brisbane. I am shocked to see how many people get convicted false convictions in Australia. There is no way to fight with this big bureaucratic machine and most of the law firms refuse to talk for you(most of them get jobs from mistakes done by the bureaucrats and using public money). In my opinion the biggest mistake is public happy to leave it alone and they do the easy option. This makes them stronger and harass more innocent public. I am shocked, saddened and sorry.
Nice gay t-shirt John!!!
From Taronga zoo?
I got it in Darwin...
@@AutoExpertJC Government funded?
Some monkey approved it.
@@AutoExpertJC that monkey is only apeing human behaviour.
Candidly, I was considering that there'd be an engineering angle to the story. Happy for your positive outcome, and experience in court.
Did the Crown provide you with disclosure as required? They often don't in these matters.
The state has an obligation to prove every element of an alleged offence beyond reasonable doubt. I've always forced them to take me to court. I do it on principle.
I reckon that everyone should have the court experience as an observer. Sit through half a day of magistrates, district, and supreme court sessions. They can be anything from boring, exciting, and horrific. Highly recommended.
Last week a copper pulled me over for excessive speeding, He said “Mate, you’ll do your license for this speed”
I just laughed and laughed in his face……. Told him the jokes on you, Cu#tstable…..
I haven’t had a license for over seven years now.
😂
Very good summary of a common court experience. Written statement ✅️ 3 copies ✅️ lawyer ⛔️ (they overcomplicate matter)
I have been in court for driving matters 3 times, and received a section 10.1a for all 3.
My rule is, go when the fine seems to go agaist natural justice (ie doesnt pass the pub test). I dont have a particularly good record, and I do pay all my fines and cop all the points with no complaint.
To be fair to Service NSW and Revenue NSW, the people reviewing the fines aren't afforded flexibility to give leniencey. Its a politically hot topic, and needs some leadership from above!
Hi mate i have gen y suspension hitch it adds around 300mm extension of the tow bar and weighs around 30kg in your option does this hitch add any extra benefits for heavy towing i have a 76 series landcruiser with a gvm of 3900kg and tow a van with a a atm of 2600kg. Thankyou
I had a similar story involving a red light camera.
I had stopped at an intersection wanting for the lights to turn green to turn right.
The lights turned green and I crept forward, only to realise that the green light was for motorists going straight through. There was a red arrow, so I wasn’t meant to turn right.
I was part-way through the intersection and a tram was coming behind me, so I cautiously continued with my right turn to avoid making a bad situation even worse.
I got a fine in the mail: 3 demerit points and a penalty of around $300.
I objected, saying that I shouldn’t be fined the same as a person deliberately speeding and trying to beat the red light.
I offered to accept a fine of $100 and 1 demerit point for my extenuating circumstances, as my culpability was at a far lower level. This reasonable request was refused. It’s clear a ‘One size fits all’ approach’.
I then appealed to the Magistrates Court.
I pointed out in my appeal that when you’re at a red light waiting to turn left or right and there is a red arrow, sometimes you don’t see it as you are focusing on the main lights in front of you, which are red. Then when your red arrow changes to green, sometimes you might not be aware of this, so someone behind you toots their horn, and then you proceed.
This point and my previous points convinced the Prosecutors when they looked at my circumstances to withdraw their case the day before it was listed for court.
PRO TIP:
Don't waste your money on lawyer’s fees!
On the day of the hearing, Magistrate are obviously far too busy to read a lengthy submission. It's not the High Court here John, just a meat factory!
Do what I did. I made my case before the court date, by spending all that time and effort in preparing a submission for the prosecutor.
Common sense prevailed and the Prosecutor decided to withdraw the matter before it went to court.
Correct the yellow or amber light is class as stop, and you can be booked for going through it..
A couple of years ago, I was initially pulled over and booked for going through an orange light..
Making a left-hand turn, the light was green right up to the time I approached the line, the last time I glanced at it, it was definitely green.
My only problem was that I was going too slow around the corner and in that time the light changed to amber, then bang I had the red and blue disco light flashing behind me.
Upon being pulled over the copper smartly stated that I went through an amber light, I argued the point over and over, but upon issuing me the fine, he f#%ked up and described that I went through a red light instead.
Fortunately, I had a witness in the car with me. Long and short, I won the case, it got thrown out of court but cost me a lot more than the potential fine, as it was adjourned 4 times, so time off work to fight it cost was way more, but for me it was the principle that I did not break the law..
Another time before that I was booked for going 4klms over on a 60 zone, I said to the cop you should be out catching real criminals instead of easy money grabbing, that one sure did go down too well.😂😅😂😅
I got a speeding fine about 2 years ago, first one in over 10 years.
On the website where you pay is a link where you can upload your driving history and if nothing for 10 years, they wipe it without going to court.
Absolute gem of a video! You’re a ‘Cool Dude’ John - keep posting!
Very well presented John and while there is no leniency from the bureaucrats it’s certainly reassuring to see a common sense and compassionate approach from the law. I live in Canberra and I’m currently visiting Melbourne again and my family constantly remind me that they are absolute zealots here and won’t hesitate to ping you for being 1km/h over the limit. I have found my best course of action is to treat every traffic light like it’s got a camera and just sit at the same speed as the traffic and so far it’s worked. It seems odd sometimes to be cruising along a 3 lane road with an 80km/h limit and no one is doing even 81km/h but that’s exactly the time not to put your foot down.
I know mate - over-zealous madness.
I love when I visit family in Germany and don’t have to worry about getting pinged for not staring at my speedo the entire time. Getting overtaken by people doing 180 in a 130 zone feels so wrong lol
Melbourne sucks I hate to drive in Melbourne and it will be even worse as the VIC gov is bankrupted, they will install more cameras as they need money!
Frustratingly if it’s an 80 zone all lanes travelling between 50 and 70! Driving in Melbourne is bad, bad, bad. Can’t wait till the population hits the expected 5.9 million 😫
I wish you could do ALL adverts .... especially on tv !! You cracked me up with that funny Manscape one 🤣😂🤣... it was fun to hear 😂
This is interesting in that I had a very similar traffic fine, however when I went to court, the Magistrate, having read my mitigating circumstances, advised me that by pleading guilty, her "hands were tied" and the points MUST stay! She waved the fine, but the points still stayed. Made me realize, I should have plead not guilty even though the camera clearly showed me in breach of the Law
As a former VicPol Constable, we were taught that the reason you pull someone over for a traffic offense is for safety, to stop the continuation of the offense, or because you found them committing the offense and you need to stop them and point the offence out to them so they don't do it again. I never understood how taking pictures of the offender and sending them a fine by mail weeks later has anything to do with safety. It's simply a revenue raising exercise. Some of the Speed Cameras in use by the TOG in Victoria would raise hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue in a matter of a couple of weeks. That was back in the early 1990s when they only had a few of them. I bet it's literally millions a month now.
You can get leniency by applying. I did and it was for 80 in a 60. It was in the middle of nowhere.
You are one of the very few.
@@AutoExpertJC I did spend a lot of time on the letter inc pointing out 18yrs since my only other indiscretion, The location and topography i.e. It was after 40km of twisty 40k corners, a long straight downhill.
VicPol never give leniency.. you get way more luck taking it to court.
My last fine was just over 2 years ago, I tried for leniency but failed even though the copper said you should be shown it . I put it down to the lack of funds the government was getting at the time due too the lockdown’s. My crime was. I was travelling on an expressway in a line of 5 cars (I was number 3) up ahead there was a hwy car with a car pulled over (lights on) so I moved into the inside lane to give clearance for the officer standing next to the driver’s door ( no other car in the line did this) unbeknownst to me there was another hwy car just up the road a bit . Next thing I know I’m being pulled over, he showed me the radar gun indicating that I was doing 110 kph and asked me if I had seen the other car with its lights on too which I replied yes that is why I changed lanes. I honestly thought I was doing the right thing with it being a dual lane road but apparently you still have to slow down, anyway he took my details went and did his checks and then returned and asked me whether I have ever had I fine because I’m not in the system, I told him I lost my license in 1989 and have not had one since. The copper then went on to tell me to write a letter and I should get off because of my good record, I asked him why don’t you just give me a caution? To which he claimed he couldn’t. Anyway I wrote the letter, it was denied because of the serious nature of the offence, from memory it was $574 plus 5 points.
I never thought about contesting it but after watching your video maybe I should of.😅
very good as usual.
Thank you very much, Andrew. All the best.
Hi john you are extremely lucky. I got snapped by a red light camera for crossing the front line of an intersection to allow and ambulance by. I asked for the photographic evidence and in the 2 pictures provided one had the ambulance and my vehicle the other just my rego plate. I was told that you can't challenge red light cameras under any circumstances
I lost a court case like this- the judge dismissed it within 20 seconds- he didn't like my driving record-but I said thankyou and bowed to the judge. Took my medicine. I never had to pay the court costs. I believe that was because I was polite.
Thanks for the confession and advice John.
I have also found if you believe you were pinged incorrectly, you can write a clarifying letter to the police within the 28 day fine payment period requesting the offence be dropped. This can be useful where speed limit signs are obscured or misplaced as sometimes happens around road works.
In your case having stopped when you realised the error and not completing the turn (as long as you were not blocking traffic) would also be a saving grace because accidents involving stationary vehicles tend to be less severe.
Ultimately of course level 5 FSD is likely the answer in saving you from your brain fades.
FSD is certain to save fines, animals, pedestrians, other drivers, vehicles, and also a lot of street furniture.
In jolly old Dantoria Vicroads records the demerit points even if you get a S10 in court, but you avoid the fine.
I was sat in the right turn lane in my work vehicle and someone drove into the rear of the van. This in turn pushed me over the line and the fine camera functioned.
When the light turned Green we both pulled over and called police as we were now on an on-ramp to the free way and exchanged information and got a police report number. His vehicle need to be towed as the radiator was damaged.
About two weeks later I received a letter informing me of the fine and a picture of me over the line.
Sent of the paperwork and an explanation of the events.
No, still ordered to pay the fine.
So took it too court, 7 months later I ended up in court. 2-3min and I was given a pass and a clean licence.
To be fair the proses up until that point was relatively easy.
The hardest part was filing for costs (I didn’t use a lawyer) reimbursement for my time was difficult to get back. Thankfully my company helped out and managed to work it all out with me. But it was by far the hardest thing to do with the whole process.
Hi John, and Others. I'm in the UK. I was issued a ticket (months after it happened) for doing 64 mph in a 50 limit. All other single carriageway roads here are 60 zones, so I must have missed this irregular 50 one. I k now, my fault for not noticing the copper with the camera, it was definitely not a permanent camera, I know there isn't one there. But I live in the north of Scotland, and the 'speeding offence' was in south Wales, at least 500 miles south of my home. There was a covid lockdown on at the time. travelling was permitted though, to see family. I was offered a 'Speed Awareness' course in lieu of points and a fine. (The SA course fee is about the same as the fine, but no points on license) My broadband is so poor - NW Scottish Highlands says it all) - that I could not risk an online course, which was on offer during covid times. There was ONE face-to-face course on offer in the whole UK, 350 miles away in England. I ditched it as the whole thing would have cost me twice the fine (at least 700 miles of diesel, a hotel most likely, and 2 days of my life) and the 3 points I would just have to suck up. Having watched your take on this, I really, REALLY wish I'd made the effort to at least avoid points on my license. Better still, I wish I had chosen to go to court, definitely a possibility, but as you pointed out you have to look very closely at whatever paperwork They send to find that option. I am 66, been riding 2 wheels and 4 for 50 years now, only one previous 3-pointer - very similar 60+ in a 50 which any punter would have assumed was a 60, much misleading road furniture or lack thereof etc - so hardly a rebel rouser, me! I drive for economy usually, this is one of my pet things: if you have little money, drive whatever wheels you have with restraint. Keep your old jalopy properly maintained, keep your right foot light. If there should ever be a next time, I might well follow your example...
I have also fronted up to probably the same local court as yourself for a Section 10. I got the disqualification down to 1 month (45ish over) with no previous offenses. It was roadworks on the M1 down to 60 and a lapse in concentration meant I was still doing $1.00 when coming into it. Still paid the $2000 odd fine.
On the flip side, another young gent was caught doing 25 over, no licence, unregistered vehicle and no seat belt. He fine got reduced to $500 and no further disqualification.
I felt it was an injustice that my punishment from 10pm at night when there is actually no roadwork happening was worse than the other blokes. I guess when I show up sharply dressed in a suit compared the other other bloke who was in a ripped Kmart shirt, the judge thought maybe I could afford it.
Thanks for your clear detailed explanation John .
Hi thanks for your video's very helpful,
My son has received his first traffic offence fine for crossing a blocked railway crossing, but without stopping he proceeded at 5 or 10 km. Per hr. and when he reached the vehicle in front of him that had stopped illegally on the yellow grid he used his right blinker and used the painted island on the right (no double line around it just one single line) to continue along the island for approximately 20 mtrs. Which put him straight ont a right turning lane putting him at line where he had stopped to wait for a green light.
We were permitted to watch the video that a highway patrol officer had taken 20 days before we received the ticket in the mail.
We were not permitted to record the footage with our phone.
We were told a second ticket could have been issued for using the traffic island for access to the right turning lane.
Do we know the law better than a highway patrol officer ?
We did ask for leniency but my son was given a big lecture and I was disrespected I lost my cool slightly he told me I had no business there and should leave so I waited in the car park for my son.
To conclude it is leagle in QLD. to use a single lined island to access a right turn lane therefore no infringement.
My son is now asking for the charges to be dropped by email this time explaining he understands the law about traffic Islands.
I have been fined wrongly at least twice 4 times in about 1 mil. Kms. Two of which I got off. I have taught my 4 sons don't accept guilt before thoroughly checking everything.
Cheers from Peter.
I actually got leniency. In fact you get it automatically if you know to apply for it AND have a ten year clean record. I did it online and the result came back within 5 minutes of my submission.
Apparently Automatic Leniency does not apply to;
red light offences
mobile phone offences
high speed offences
school zone offences
other traffic offences where safety issues were identified.
So that is why you were refused and mine went through immediately. I was just caught in a Revenue Camera.