I applaud your videos because this is what the customer of the viewer is going through they're in the street somewhere stranded not in a repair shop where they have all tools and batteries to change immediately this is the people who watch all channels about electronics
Well, this is my third comment on this video. I just watched it again this morning. Once again I say, these old SD videos r gold. Why? We have a lot of old cars out here in California that people still want fixed. This vid demonstrates the value of having a Vantage. That info on the old cars is very valuable. The use of a test light to verify if u have spark is a super cool way to do it so u can avoid a shock. Also, a bad sensor waking up intermittently is a lesson we can all benefit from. Looking at the wave form on the Vantage, adjusting the time base, what amplitude is all things that help us in our work. And great filming btw.
I have a 1997 Continental which once or twice a year has a no start problem. It has had two crank sensor harnesses and seven new sensors, by Lincoln mechanics and others. Best fix for 75 starts had been RTV of the connector and sensor. The problem seems to be the harness cable is supported too far away from the sensor, such that the harness is displaced when responding to road input shocks and vibrations. Love the car otherwise. I plan to better support the harness closer to the cable. This is verified by my pulling on a wire hook fashioned to fit under harness. A slight pull on harness restores the start OK. Hope this helps. I like your video; very informative.
To my faithful viewers. It is possible that there was a wiring or connection problem. But given my circumstances, I could not do further testing nor did I think it was necessary. I touched no other part of that circuit. Wires do not fix themselves, so I am not worried about an open or short. (not to mention a short would have lit my test light during the bypass test) I do know that wiring problems can do similar types of things but the key is current flow, current flow once it starts is what keeps it together. Stop the current flow and the circuit is dead again (open circuit type issue). We did not see that. Could it have been a loose PCM pin? I suppose but that can be easily fixed after a new crank sensor is installed if there is still an issue. I realize this is not ideal thinking but it is reality sometimes on these intermittent issues. How much more time do we spend doing testing? Is it always worth it? Here is another key component. How many loose PCM pins have your seen on Fords? Is the crank sensor wiring in a bad location and is known for issues? Experience will dictate your next move in these situations. In this case, I'm changing the crank sensor before going crazy on this circuit. Don't forget, I was in a gravel parking lot and COULD NOT get to the crank sensor. You guys are AWESOME in your responses to me. All of you that mentioned wiring and PCM pin problems have been watching to many of my videos! You are so right in asking me that! Thank you all so much
Paul Really good 'real time' video although the editing must of took you longer than the diagnosis... I'm always using your testing methods at work and 'in the field' before deciding on a failed component. I've even used the basic 5v pull up/pull down system design info in one of my own videos (please feel free to check out :-) I used it to fix 90's hori arcade stick. Great video from a great teacher!
A lincoln motor has a extra wires connected to the battery negative and positive, you need to check the connectors at that point, usually it's gray if it's pulled apart the car wont start but will spin the motor. Also Make sure that a spider has not made a little home in the mass air flow sensor. I have never replaced a crank shaft sensor on a lincoln motor, because it has a chain not belt. *The other thing that will cause this condition is the Temperature sender. This car could be lacking an actual cooling sensor it could be using the other sensors for that reading my 98 does that and that sensor is nonsense, its definitely not reading the correct temperature, its basicly a thermistor.. What happens is that its may control the cooling fans as well, on one of my cars, it turns the fan on at 221F which is clearly too high, and then I had a jaguar same garbage sensor temperature sender, it is not a switch, it chnages ohm readings depending on the temperature outside and on the motor, when that sensor is not working correctly it will not allow the car to start because it doesnt know how much fuel/ air it needs to put out.* This is a problem that could turn on in warmer conditions or colder conditions depending on which way the thermistor that is a temperature sensor/sensor is half broken. I have owned 52 cars and i have had every single weird issue you can imagine. I would bet money on warped temperature sensor.
ScannerDanner I have a 2005 crown Victoria that has a no-start condition no injector pulse and no spark after putting a Noid light on the injector harness I don't even have a solid light at all you think it's a crankshaft sensor problem?
DEAR SIR: YOU ARE BORN TO BE THE TOP OF THE LINE INTO DIAGNOSTISTICS, YOU ARE REALLY BLESSED BY YOUR GOD. EVERY STEP OF THE WAY YOU MAKE LOGIC AGAIN AND AGAIN WE ARE LUCKY TO HAVE YOU AS OUR IDEAL. THANKS A MILLION I AM 75 YEARS OLD AND RETIRED. I DID WORK FOR FANCY DEALERS IN BEVERLY HILLS ALONG WITH A LOT OF MOVIE STARS WHO WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE.
I was told to check a floating ground system such as this with the A/C setting on my multi meter. I don't have a scope and not sure I can justify purchasing one, but there are other ways to test than using a scope. It does help to have a Mitchell diagram though, these are the best wiring diagrams I have ever seen !
Dear Mr. Danner, Thank you indeed for your lovely videos. One note over the crank sensor is that maybe sometime a dirt stuck on the sensor or the plate that runs through it that might cause an unjustifiable no start, so an air pressure around the crank sensor might dissolve the dirt , just FYI, I love your videos.
Paul your videos are the best on TH-cam. I use your techniques all the time at my garage. I really wish you could do some videos on European common rail diesels
I recently started watching and i love your training. You are easy for me to understand. I just ordered your book and i am gonna use it a lot i am sure. Thanks and keep up the great work.
@@ScannerDanneryou have a book😮? I'm really happy I found your channel! Not surprising the soldering iron can make it work, though that's kinda risky, that soldering iron puts a practically little to not voltage, but could sink a lot of current kinda like an AC stick welder, I'm pretty sure it's the gun type iron love my vintage 100watt iron. So as for as for a signal generator, I could probably craft something up that's current limited in the micro amp range which is still probably more current than the VR senor is producing, but should still be enough. One problem I see is the output impedance of the "signal generator tester" and the muiltple difference's of input impedance of the circuit inside the ecu that process the output of the VR, and the frequency out put as it will very slightly between different manufacturers. That soldering iron puts out a frequency of 60hz which if I'm not mistaken is 1800rpm that can very alot though,depending on the diameter of the rotating assembly the VR is picking up on id say on a gas IC car engine 60hz could actually be in the higher 3000rpm range but there's a lot of variables, ah wait I could make it variable too.
Hi from Lithuania, love wach all the videos ,very good step by step explaining showing all the measurements been taken so it makes really easier to understand all the process,good teaching skills!!!
It is annoying when the crank sensor starts working again. I've had an old -91 Euro Escort in three times for the same no start problem. I checked spark. No spark. And injection pulse, no injection pulse. And then when taking out the scope and connecting it and cranking, don't you think the car starts. Of course it does. However, the last time it actually acted up when connected and I could call a crank sensor. Good work as usual Paul.
Great vids .While searching for High/Low can scope samples on the net i found your great work.Spent a couple of hours now watching.I have also not given up on using a test light as well as using the other very low current testing devices.It appears that when you reconnected up the vantage after trying to induce switching in the crank sensor wires with your test light that your test leads ended up in Ch 1 and 3/4 instead of Common and Ch1.Would explain the no pattern on the Vantage .And you were able to load the crank sensor circuit up so the leads must have had good contact up to that point. Thanks for sharing
+ScannerDanner Thanks for the reply, It could also just have been the camera angle that made the leads look too far to the right .I was still watching your vids at midnight last night, great to see and a good stimulator for the Grey matter .With being so busy daily in the w/shop getting the backlog of work out the doors I tend to diagnosing the quickest way I can plus using past experience but i need to make the time to follow up with the scope tests. Do your cars live near the coast seeing the corrosion under the hood. It is great to see you spending the time showing the electrical testing of what you probably already know was faulty before you got the test gear out.
Good demonstration of the floating ground concept Paul. Thanks also for the info on the service engine soon light being used for a diagnostic for the crank signal. I will have to try that when my truck dies again, lol. Been having a intermittent no start condition after a hot soak and I have been unlucky to pinpoint it. I'm ready for next time though, I have a spark tester and my fuel pressure gauge in the back, lol. As usual, always good stuff Paul.
Wonder if you can use a soldering gun and place it near the crank sensor to induct a 60 htz signal into the harness. That may produce a spark. Works on HEI modules.
Nice vid Danner i liked very much the whole begining to end format and thought progress explanation, for dialog purposes i noticed you were checking for voltage at the inj and coil pack in my diag process i wouldve bypassed those steps knowing that i have no rpm showing up on my rpm one thing i would like to add to the rpm pid when using it for ckp check is to allow more than 5 secounds and give the scanner time to display rpm been bit by that once or twice
Grounding one of the inputs to provide a reference might've let you trigger the sensor input with your test light. Since it's differential input, if you let one side float, it will just float along with the other input and differential input is zero. Ground on one side prevents it from floating and +12V shows up in the differential input.
thanks for sharing Paul, if you would see a weak signal on the scope of sign wave, how many voltage minimum are you inspecting to see on this type of crank sensor, do you measure average or peak to peak. thank you very much I always waiting for your next video.
Couldn't it have been a bad wire or connection and somehow you disturbed the wiring harness enough to 'fix' it? Would a wiggle test on the wiring harness have helped to see if the crank sensor dropped out or not while it was running? Also, would tapping on the sensor while it was running to see if it dropped out at all have been a good test to help conclude that the sensor was bad as a posed to a bad wire or connection somewhere? Just spitballing some ideas... Thanks for another great video.
Watching some of these old vids. Love the Vantage. It’s small and light and starts right up. And u can record on it too. I guess u would say it has a buffer.
outstanding video and very informative. Don't worry about the ,people complaining about the length of your videos; they can watch the lucky part changers -
After back probing that pcm connector and now seeing it starting and running , besides the crank sensor, I would be inclined to remove that 104 pin connector and see if moisture got in and oxidation is starting. Maybe some electrical contact cleaner , and re-seating the pcm connector a few times ?(Even though after losing keep alive memory might need to clean a dirty throttle body or it might not want to idle)
Using differential signaling is quite common for small signals - when you are dealing with signals on the millivolt scale, you do not want all the noise from body or common ground in your measurements. What does Ford say about the expected magnitude on that signal? As for why bypass may have caused the sensor to come back to life and why the signal is weak, I have at least three theories: 1- wiggled a bad connection back into workable state as many have already said... could have been a short but it could have been an open too - you get no signal out of a floating sensor if either lead is not connected since there is no path for current flow 2- there was short (or open) in the computer or the wiring and bypass tests blew enough of it out for the crank signal to come through 3- the magnet in the crank sensor lost its magnetization (overheated engine?) and the probing sent enough current through the pick-up coil to magnetize metal around it - in this case, I would expect the sensor to die again next time it warms up enough to lose that weak magnetization or possibly from just fading over time
Outstanding video, we appreciate the editing you do, though I imagine it's pretty time consuming! Do you find that VRS sensors fail by giving a weaker and weaker signal or just stop working completely? Thanks.
It certainly is. I've had to drop my 20 different garages I work for down to 2 or 3. I just need enough case studies now to keep this going. It takes so much time to do this. Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily say I see a pattern here. I have seen them weak, I have seen them just simply fail.
ScannerDanner I agree,thanks for the time you take in presenting your videos,I also appreciate it,I am also a premium subscriber and those videos are excellent and very informative I can most certainly recommend your channel
would you also want to not reverse polarity on a scope since some dont protected ground, a signal generator off some scopes could possibly be used for a trigger test
Paul , not sure if this has bee asked or answered yet but couldn't you have bridged your shielded Vantage /Verus Snap-on wires (Black and Yellow ) with the wires already back probing the ECU pins and then tapped your test light set on positive onto the other spare black connector ( the one you'd normally fit into the scopes) ? This way both wires would get the pulse and the ECU would then register them as an Accurate (in terms of Equal) so plausible signal ? Or with doing this would that still not work on these floating grounds ? Tim :)
Hey Paul, First off, thanks for these videos. I dont get to wrench as much as I'd like to so these keep me sharp. One question though, I see you have a Verus (I have the Verus Pro) and a Vantage with you. Why do you still use the Vantage? It looks like all the component tests are the same in the Verus. Or is there a simplicity that the Vantage offers that I am missing? Thanks and keep up the great work!
Would a signal generator have been useful in helping with this kind of diagnostics.? If you were to introduce a sinewave into the computer would the car have started? Would it damage the pcm?
Great video, although I thought variable reluctance sensors operate on AC voltage not the DC you used from B+. What approach would you have taken if this was a Hall effect sensor instead? Thanks.
Nice job, shows you that you don't really need to be an expert on a particular car to troubleshoot it. When you say that test works for Ford, do you know how far back that would apply (i.e. year)? I am wondering if this would work on something like a 1994 with EEC-IV? If not sure, would I simply just pull the wiring harness off the distributor to see (crank sensor is inside my disty)?
why didnt you worry at all about excessive resistance in those 2 wires? because if you got a signal at the pcm it could have been weak down at the sensor connector causing the no spark but im just guessing so i dont know
forget the helper, why don't you have a bumper switch with all the hi tech gadgets you got?..i love the videos.very in depth and to the point. thanks for the help. you got me out of a bind with my Pontiac.i'm now hoping you could help me with my old ford as well..i'll soon see here..
Since it is a low current signal, could the 12 volts have sort of cleaned off the connections at the sensor plug or as u were pushing on the pins at the computer, that slight physical movement could have reestablished connection? Excellent teaching as usual!!!!
+Bill Rimmer thanks Bill. There was the possibility of a pin issue at the PCM but it wasn't that. I tested for the signal first BEFORE doing the bypass test. So if it was a pin contact issue, the voltage measurement itself would have fixed the issue. You'll have to take my word on it, that a new crank sensor was the fix.
And this is why we teach what we teach on our channels scanner we have no lift to lift the car so we are limited to what we have and what the customer who is stranded
Is there a reason why you are not using a power probe. you can power any circuit from the test light. and if u use the power probe (the hook) you can read resistance and amp on the display.
I always heard standard test lights are not computer safe. But I see you are using it to check the fuel injector outputs and varioius inputs/outputs of the PCM/ECM. Is this good practice? or is it better to use a computer safe logic probe/tester?
autoparts321 You have to know the system your testing. Some testing is ok other testing will fry electronics. If your not 100% sure of system operation and the test you are doing then stick with computer safe testers. If you know why an incandescent test light won't fry something in a test you have planned then your already self-assured in what your doing and don't need to verify with anyone else.
2000 Mazda Miata, loses rpm at high rpm in load ( while driving). spark is good, fuel is also good but looses injector pulse at like 5-7k rpm and engine seems to have low power, has exhaust leak and a whine which might indicate clogged exhaust and at one point it showed MAF low input and I saw that a blockage would call up a MAF code. my question is will a bad/clogged catalytic converter and muffler cause injection pulse to go out? it feels like a rev limiter and does it about 2 times and then continues to go up and does it maybe once, very inconsistent.
Hey Paul, do nowadays car still use the vrs ? the difference between the vrs and hall effect sensor are one have two wires and the other have three wires? right
With Ford computer, I see a lot of computer pin moisture and not good contact, might be engine running after Scanner Danner removed cover and wiggle wiring harness. Good clip for idea where to start with, thanks Scanner Danner.
I am wanting to do Neg. ground pulse ! There was one that I was intrested in purchasing but there tech support said it was not safe to use.. it could burnout the ICU-Ignitor...can you please give me advice on which one to buy. Do you have a link? Thank you.
Paul at 23:56 you had your leads connected to Ch1 and Ch3, you were missing the com connection, that is why you could not see the signal on the screen, I cant think in a quick and dirty way to check this vrs sensor with just our normal 12vdc stuff... but I guess If you Connect a wire between the two lead wires and make a coil and pass side by side a magneto maybe, you could simulate the signal... I don't work on cars every day, If you could try it one day maybe will work!
haha, nice catch! I need to go back and watch that part. That was very dumb on my part :) This VRS bypass test works with the test light on all other designs but this floating ground type. I have some other videos where I show it. One in particular that comes to mind is on a Saturn no start that I brought my son Beau with me in the field to troubleshoot.
hi I have a issue with a 03 s10 4.3 the truck went dead on the road... I checked and there is no spark and no fuel pressure, the fuses and relays look good .. I hope you can reply with any ideas thank you
Hi Paul just a couple of comments, I believe on the wasted spark you have 2 switching leads at the coil, I might have checked both of these in case you had one duff coil, The connections on the crank sensor, I might have tried an ohm test to make sure your connections were ok, and possibly an open circuit sensor, I know how much you like ohms tests :-) Fred UK.
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Great video! Doesn't computer know that the starter is active but it is not getting the crank signal? Shouldn't it immediately flag it in the pending or stored code? I would think this would be flagged as immediate code rather than multi-trip detection. I was hoping that you were going to verify that there were no other pending codes. Do you have any video where disconnecting crank sensor immediately triggers the corresponding check engine light?
It depends on the year of the car and the design of the system on whether or not you will see a crank sensor fault code with a faulty crank sensor. Here are some examples of when you will have no code: The system only uses the crank sensor (no cam sensor) The system uses a synthesized cam signal (GM ecotech engine) The system is stupid :) Like this car. Seriously, I do not have an answer for you as to why I had no code. I know someone else cleared the codes, so it may have had one. It does have a cam sensor, so you would think the PCM would flag the fault right away. Just did a 2007 Ford F-150 yesterday with a faulty crank sensor with no code and this system uses 2 different cam sensors. Like I said, the system is stupid. I don't get hung up on it. It is what it is.
I agree with you. It would be trivial for the ECM programmer to put the code out P1901 which translates to "Hey dummy, I am not getting any crank signal, I have intentionally turned off the injectors too"!
Excellent test, also it seems that 90% of the vehicles you work on are American made? Does that mean there are built cheaper than foreign cars ? Thanks for the video.
Hey I have a Mazda rx 8. I lost the key and was trying to get it replaced but they couldnt program it because it couldn't read the ecu. I thought of maybe replacing the ecu. What are your thoughts?
Hi there, i have a 54 plate astra. I dont have any issues beside my car driving rough when the car with the spanner comes up, initially i thought that was a service symbol until i plugged into obd2 computer and came up as 'crankshaft sensor bank 1' isit a major issue to resolve?
Does the Pico automotive scope have an arbitrary waveform generator output? My non automotive pico does it can easily generate a sine wave. I'm sure it would have no problem fooling the computer. Never thought of it till now next time I have a floating ground VRS i'll try it out.
ScannerDanner Wow even Picos entry level 2000 series scopes have one kind of silly they removed it on the automotive line. It's a really cool function never looked at it before. You can capture a known good crank waveform import it into the AWG and play it back to the PCM sync notch and all. You can also draw it manually or specify a generic wave sine at x hertz, square at x hertz, etc. Guess that's one of the reasons the Pico auto has its own software to remove the AWG function.
I did a wiring test and I'm getting no power or continuity from it.... It goes to the engine fuse box before the BCM. I'm getting good voltage from the PCM.... I just want to put the sensor in... I think the sensor show's signs of weakness or is it possible? It's reading below 2 ohms? My meter fluctuated from 1 and 2, but then again maybe it's fine. Anyway I am certain no continuity in the wire.... Can you help please?
if im getting a signal to the coil but no spark from my plugs, could this mean my crank position sensor is possibly the culprit? already changed new dizzy, checked relay, and im still not getting spark
Hi Paul, do you think the bypass test may not have worked because the sensor was still plugged in? Could the voltage have went down to the sensor than back on the other wire? The computer would have seen no difference in potential across the two wires since electrically they would be the same point.
ScannerDanner Thanks. The only reason I think this might be the case is for that sensor to generate its own ac sine wave like that, the crank must be spinning a permanent magnet and those two wires are attached to a coil of wire that the magnetic field is cutting across to generate the signal. When it's unplugged you might have to ground one pin and pulse the 12v like you were doing so the circuit can see a potential difference, as it's a " floating ground". Hope that makes sense. Thanks for everything you do.
i have noticed you never use the battery negative to put your test light on but always on the engine or body frame.... is that a bad idea to do that on the negative battery pole ?
When I'm doing a spark test with a test light I never go to battery negative as I don't really need to and I'd like to keep any chance of arcing away from the battery. Other times I use battery negative whenever possible
Great video! I have a 1997 Mercury Grand Marquis with similar problems. I went to try your check engine light trick while turning the engine over, but on my car the whole digital dash goes dark while cranking the engine, including the check engine light. Any tips or tricks? Thank you!
Can't use that test is all. Like I said it is a quick test only. You'll need to verify what you are missing. (Spark, fuel, compression) th-cam.com/video/S0Fs2i-XBKI/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/q40CPwcPlOE/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/SUxagOAVS5M/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/z5DpsRwHTfo/w-d-xo.html These videos will help you even though none of them are on a Ford. It is the same approach.
Thank you, I have verified I do not have spark but I am getting fuel pressure to the rails so I am going to try and check the crank sensor next. I appreciate your help and great videos!
Hi Paul, great video! what about the possibility of a bad connection somewhere between the sensor and the ECM? That might arc over when you put 12v to the sensor establishing a connection.
that is always a possibility, but I was comfortable calling the crank sensor. My ability to test the wiring further in the parking lot where the car was, was not possible so I made the call. I hate not being 100% but I'll take 99% in this case.
Correct me if I'm wrong... Shouldn't the injector be connected???? If it's a ground side controled injector, You can't see the grounding without the 12v applied to the injector. Under these circumstances, I'd connect a noid lamp or a test bulb across the injector connector to make a quick injector pulse width test.
Sure you can, with the test light connected to battery positive like I did in the video. The injector does not need to be connected to check for pulse.
Every video about diagnosing sensors makes me miss my 1980 Ford Fairmont with it's carbureted I-6 engine, I could fix anything on that thing without much more than common hand-tools.
Have the same prob with a 96. Notice when you turn on the key without starting it you heard the throttle body set itself? When there's a no start you won't hear that noise under the hood. Can be a bad ground. I'm gonna look at my problem and post back. Mines an intermittent no start also. Crank no start. Turn key on and I don't here the throttle body set itself. Wiggle test then you do and it starts. Can be a bad connection somewhere. Going to see if it has an eec pwr relay. When you put the crank sensor in have you had any more intermittent no starts? Did the crank sensor fix the problem? Don't know when key on sends signal to crank sensor then triggers throttle body ..fuel than spark. Thanks for the info.
+ScannerDanner I forget the name of it. But when you do a KOEO (key on engine off) it makes a noise in the engine compartment. Like something is resetting before it's ready to start. When you first did it you didn't hear it. But when the surprise start happened you heard that noise under the hood then it started. Did the crank sensor fix it?
+ScannerDanner it's ok. The noise I'm talking about is the electronics under the hood seems like an electronic sensor is setting itself. On your vid when it didn't start you heard no noise under the hood. Then on your vid when you turned the key you heard some electronic noise then it started right up like the ecc power relay worked and set a signal to the electronics under the hood. I'll watch the vid again and show you the points of vid I'm talking about. Thanks for the info. My 96 is an intermittent problem. I've been doing wiggle tests to try to make it happen and it hasn't yet. I told my neighbor to test drive it and I swapped the eec power relay with the horn relay. Seems the eec relay was getting hot.
Those relays do get hot man and it's normal. Yeah, if you could give me a time of those two events, that would really help. Thanks! BTW, intermittent crank sensor failures are common
I got a F150 4.6L and the crank sensor i believe is like right under the A/C compressor it seems my ac compressor is soaked and so are the plugs and sensors around it.. Could this cause a U1900 or U1950 code cause thats the only codes i get. btw My truck wont start either Just crank looks simular to this I really think it could be the Cranksensor but wouldnt it had thrown a P0 Code?
Hi Paul I have been watching a lot of your vids which to me an oldtimer are great!. You are an excellent teacher. Unfortunately for me I am in the uk and as a result have a european vehicle. What I would like to suggest if its possible is if you could outline for a simpleton. Is what the normal sequence of events that leads to a normal starting /running situation. then to have a series if vids saying what would happen if a certain input failed at a certain point. Or a sensor died or malfunctioned at certain point how and why these inputs/sensor malfunctions have effects on others and the effect on others throughout the engine. You may have detailed this in your book I dont know but I am at the point of asking where can I buy it. Let me know if its possible to produce the suggestions above as it would be really helpful. I am a retired nurse and we always started our training with normal functioning before moving onto abnormal. I am aware that not all systems are designed the same but they maybe similar. with slight deviation from manufacturer to manufacturer. I have been a part-time petrolhead and am pleased to be able focus more on the electronic controls side in my retirement. The mechanical side is not a problem to me at all. but I am personally a keen student and very willing to learn. whatever I have already learned such a lot from you so thanks very much for that. many many thanks Colin Lyne
Thanks Colin! I have exactly what you're looking for on ScannerDanner Premium. There is a 14 day free trial. If you subscribe, then immediately cancel, you'll still get the full 14 days and you will not be charged. Check out the material, a suggestion is to start with my chapter 1 playlist. You do not need my book to follow along. Or maybe start with chapters 21 and 22 (ignition inputs and no start no spark diagnosis). Let me know what you think okay?
Teacher Paul Danner .. by viewing Wiring Diagram I knew this Crank Sensor is kind of Variable Reluctance Sensor. In my Country (except dealers, even few) use Wiring Diagrams for Diagnosis/Repair. At local none of Technicians using Wiring Diagrams and also not Oscilloscopes/Waveforms often to reach the real fault. But they are working and earning quite cool. I need your suggestion how to deal these Cars without Wiring Diagrams? My friend who worked 2 years at a Shop, he worked only Electrical works. He said we just follow wiring colors.
I have a 2002 ford focus SE manuel transmission and one day we were driving going about 30 miles an hour and the car died it was cranking until we took it to a mechanic they put in a new fuel pump and spark plugs and replace fuel injectors and now they are telling me I need a major engine repair that my engine is blown , before my car ran great can u give me some advise because for some reason I don't believe them . and I haven't seen a diagnostic tester
Holy crap that's bad man. All of it. Hate to throw a fellow mechanic under the bus but they freaking blew it man (the diagnosis). If the engine is blown, there is no way you should be paying for any of that.
Dodge Caravan: Can a crank sensor be intermittently bad? My mechanic replaced the ignition coil twice already. It runs good for a day or two then it wont start. Then a day later it started. He didn't get any spark when it wouldn't start. Now its starting up and everything is ok but it probably will not start tomorrow. He checked relays and wiring and they were fine. any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Dan D. Dirges The video didn't show an intermittent crank sensor, it was dead and through whatever means it came back to life. It never went away after coming back so by definition that would not be an intermittent. Your mechanic needs to look at more than the ignition coil, thinking that replacing the coil a second time would be the right fix is insane. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Killer2600 Turned out it was the Ignition Switch. The mechanic replaced the ignition coil twice, and the cam and crank sensor. It worked for about a week then would not start intermittently. Then he replaced the ignition switch and that fixed it.
I want to test my ICU-Ignitor on my 1994 Toyota Pickup 22RE Engine and I want to purchase the right Test Light that wont fry my ICU - Coil - ECU.. I have seen other youtube videos that use a certain one that was safe... do you know of one that I should buy?
Hi great video you could try an ohm meter across the pins,using the same technique. As the ohm meter does have a small amount of voltage , might be enough to fool the ecm , this is a test we use , to test electronic circuits,
The ohm meter produces a steady DC signal, not an sign wave like the crank sensor would. The voltage of the ohm meter would also be very very low (like a few mV depending on your meter), not the 5V the ECM was looking for. So I don't think an ohm meter would help here.
Pet Rock's Garage actually the ECM only typically needs to "see" around 500mv to trigger the AD converter. (to convert to AC sign wave to a digital square wave) This was not a 5v type of sensor.
31:4521:0427:30 For the purpose of doing bypass testing on Ford crank sensors with floating grounds, I suppose you could build your own signal generator with a Ford 36-1 reluctor ring and a variable reluctance sensor. You would have to manually spin it to create a signal. This would only make sense if you work on a lot of Fords. (Wouldn't the A/C sine wave from a soldering iron cook the PCM?)
You don't need a specific reluctor wheel as you're not attempting to create the proper time, you're just looking for a reaction. So just a sensor and a chunk of metal (chisel works) to move back and forth across the sensors
I was wondering if you know where to find a crankshaft sensor on a 1994 corvette. No one seems to know. I have asked automotive shops and parts stores. They say its on lower right side of engine block. I even removed the starter and its not there. One vette owner told me it may be behind the timing chain cover. Any help would be great! Thanks
I am directing all help requests to my forum. Sign up (it's free) and create a new post. Be sure to add a name under "alias" as this is the name that will appear in the post. Here is the link to the forum. www.scannerdanner.com/ForumRetrieve.aspx?ForumID=3226
If the CEL stays ON, when cranking then no signal from the CKP (crank). Good test at 5:20, and 32:20. BTW, I own a Ford (Contour). Moisture on the connector can short out or weaken the CKP signal. WD40 to the rescue! The CKP signal *needs* to be strong (high amplitude sine wave) or else the ECM does diddly.
Instead of a test light with always moves I never use it only a fluke meter because that ground leads stays put and I only move the positive it avoids wires coming off ground
Thanks for the good video, one question though, why doesn't the by test hurt the pcm. that ckp is a very small signal, 1/2 to 1 volt tops. How can you safely put 12 volts to it? thanks
It's not always small. I've seen a VR sensor produce in excess of 25v at higher RPMs A characteristic of this sensor is low voltage at low speeds and higher voltage at higher speeds.
I had a no crank no start on a navigator no dtcs or rpm on the scanner when cranking so i back probed the crank sensor and i had about half a volt, but with the sensor connected i did not have any voltage because the two wires were pinched together when somebody replaced the timing chain cover gaskets. Is it possible that by checking the ckp at the pcm only you could have had the same problem i had those two wires making contact ?
could a bad crank sensor cause no fuel pressure as well? I was reading that if the computer doesnt get a signal from the crank sensor it wont spin the pump.
Do you think the reason you didn't get a signal by putting 12V to the floating ground signal wire was because you didn't complete the circuit by connecting battery negative to the other wire? If the ground is truly floating, there was no way for power to make its way through the test light back to the battery.... Were you concerned about applying 12V to both sides of the circuit? Last week in the garage I took a broken headlamp that used three 1.4V batteries in series, and soldered an inline fuse and a 5000 ohm resistor in series to one of the two wires that comes from the salvaged battery case. It gave me a simple, extremely limited current 4.2V signal generator that should work well for a case like this with a floating ground. I would briefly touch the two leads to the two signal wires leading back to the PCM. If I complete the circuit I get a 4.2V square wave signal, and the extra resistance of the line should protect anything downstream. As you know those signal wires lead to a second big resistor inside the PCM, but I'm not too concerned if there is a voltage drop between the two resistors since I'm really just looking for scan tool evidence the signal is being received. You and many others say that 12V through a test light is safe, but with limited practical experience I was looking for something generally useful but a little lower in voltage.
I've tried all different way to trigger these floating ground VR sensors with no luck. I like the way you are thinking though. Somethings to try the next time. Thanks brother
Basically, I'm asking you if the crankshaft sensor or the camshaft sensor will if they are bad or if one is bad will it make my honda not fire or have injector pulse because I have no power to the fuel pump.
@@ScannerDanner When I first turn the key on the fuel pump is not kicking on it's like I'm not getting any power to the pump or the injectors. As I said tho I did check the fuel relay in my other honda and the relay is good. However no power to the injectors as well when I back probed them. I appreciate any help thanks in advance.
@scannerDanner With my key switch turned on my fuel pump is not kicking on and with the key switch turned on My tester light hooked to the positive on the battery and back probing the injectors the tester light still doesn't light up. When I'm turning the key switch off and on I can hear the fuel relay box clicking and I know the relay is good because I tested it in my other honda. but as I stated I changed the distributor and still no spark. So I kinda wanted to fix the fuel problem before moving on to the no spark. And to be honest with you I was periodically unhooking the battery and reconnecting when this problem occurred. So I think I zapped something. So new distributor and still no spark or power to the fuel pump or the injectors. But the fuel pump isn't kicking on at all
@@ScannerDanner I will leave you alone after this question because I don't want to keep bugging you. but with me having a brand new distributor with still no spark would that take me to a bad crankshaft sensor?
i have a 99 mercury villager with the 3.3 I have strong spark and the crankshaft position sensor is suspect but could it result in a stone cold no start? with the spark its hard to imagine the sensor would prevent the engine from starting since mine says its only purpose is to detect misfires
+KeyWestBluesX that is a Nissan engine and a very goofy design. The distributor contains everything needed for spark and fuel and the crank sensor on the flywheel is for misfire monitoring only. These distributors are high failure items. The upper bearing will go bad and pump metal shavings all over the optical pick-ups interfering with the signals
I applaud your videos because this is what the customer of the viewer is going through they're in the street somewhere stranded not in a repair shop where they have all tools and batteries to change immediately this is the people who watch all channels about electronics
I just passed my L1 test today. Thank you Paul for your video lectures and cases studies, it really helped me a lot!
Congratulations Doy:)
That is awesome! Thanks for sharing my friend
Well, this is my third comment on this video. I just watched it again this morning. Once again I say, these old SD videos r gold. Why? We have a lot of old cars out here in California that people still want fixed. This vid demonstrates the value of having a Vantage. That info on the old cars is very valuable. The use of a test light to verify if u have spark is a super cool way to do it so u can avoid a shock. Also, a bad sensor waking up intermittently is a lesson we can all benefit from. Looking at the wave form on the Vantage, adjusting the time base, what amplitude is all things that help us in our work. And great filming btw.
I have a 1997 Continental which once or twice a year has a no start problem. It has had two crank sensor harnesses and seven new sensors, by Lincoln mechanics and others. Best fix for 75 starts had been RTV of the connector and sensor. The problem seems to be the harness cable is supported too far away from the sensor, such that the harness is displaced when responding to road input shocks and vibrations. Love the car otherwise. I plan to better support the harness closer to the cable. This is verified by my pulling on a wire hook fashioned to fit under harness. A slight pull on harness restores the start OK. Hope this helps. I like your video; very informative.
To my faithful viewers.
It is possible that there was a wiring or connection problem. But given my circumstances, I could not do further testing nor did I think it was necessary. I touched no other part of that circuit. Wires do not fix themselves, so I am not worried about an open or short. (not to mention a short would have lit my test light during the bypass test) I do know that wiring problems can do similar types of things but the key is current flow, current flow once it starts is what keeps it together. Stop the current flow and the circuit is dead again (open circuit type issue). We did not see that. Could it have been a loose PCM pin? I suppose but that can be easily fixed after a new crank sensor is installed if there is still an issue. I realize this is not ideal thinking but it is reality sometimes on these intermittent issues. How much more time do we spend doing testing? Is it always worth it? Here is another key component. How many loose PCM pins have your seen on Fords? Is the crank sensor wiring in a bad location and is known for issues? Experience will dictate your next move in these situations. In this case, I'm changing the crank sensor before going crazy on this circuit. Don't forget, I was in a gravel parking lot and COULD NOT get to the crank sensor.
You guys are AWESOME in your responses to me. All of you that mentioned wiring and PCM pin problems have been watching to many of my videos! You are so right in asking me that! Thank you all so much
Paul
Really good 'real time' video although the editing must of took you longer than the diagnosis...
I'm always using your testing methods at work and 'in the field' before deciding on a failed component.
I've even used the basic 5v pull up/pull down system design info in one of my own videos (please feel free to check out :-) I used it to fix 90's hori arcade stick.
Great video from a great teacher!
GRUSS Newton
post the link here my friend. Thanks!
A lincoln motor has a extra wires connected to the battery negative and positive, you need to check the connectors at that point, usually it's gray if it's pulled apart the car wont start but will spin the motor. Also Make sure that a spider has not made a little home in the mass air flow sensor. I have never replaced a crank shaft sensor on a lincoln motor, because it has a chain not belt. *The other thing that will cause this condition is the Temperature sender. This car could be lacking an actual cooling sensor it could be using the other sensors for that reading my 98 does that and that sensor is nonsense, its definitely not reading the correct temperature, its basicly a thermistor.. What happens is that its may control the cooling fans as well, on one of my cars, it turns the fan on at 221F which is clearly too high, and then I had a jaguar same garbage sensor temperature sender, it is not a switch, it chnages ohm readings depending on the temperature outside and on the motor, when that sensor is not working correctly it will not allow the car to start because it doesnt know how much fuel/ air it needs to put out.* This is a problem that could turn on in warmer conditions or colder conditions depending on which way the thermistor that is a temperature sensor/sensor is half broken. I have owned 52 cars and i have had every single weird issue you can imagine. I would bet money on warped temperature sensor.
ScannerDanner I have a 2005 crown Victoria that has a no-start condition no injector pulse and no spark after putting a Noid light on the injector harness I don't even have a solid light at all you think it's a crankshaft sensor problem?
The Idle Air Temperature sensor or are you referring to something else?
DEAR SIR: YOU ARE BORN TO BE THE TOP OF THE LINE INTO DIAGNOSTISTICS, YOU ARE REALLY BLESSED BY YOUR GOD. EVERY STEP OF THE WAY YOU MAKE LOGIC AGAIN AND AGAIN
WE ARE LUCKY TO HAVE YOU AS OUR IDEAL. THANKS A MILLION
I AM 75 YEARS OLD AND RETIRED. I DID WORK FOR FANCY DEALERS IN BEVERLY HILLS ALONG WITH A LOT OF MOVIE STARS WHO WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE.
Thank you my friend. I am blessed indeed to have this platform and may I glorify Him all the more with it, as the time approaches.
I was told to check a floating ground system such as this with the A/C setting on my multi meter. I don't have a scope and not sure I can justify purchasing one, but there are other ways to test than using a scope. It does help to have a Mitchell diagram though, these are the best wiring diagrams I have ever seen !
Dear Mr. Danner, Thank you indeed for your lovely videos. One note over the crank sensor is that maybe sometime a dirt stuck on the sensor or the plate that runs through it that might cause an unjustifiable no start, so an air pressure around the crank sensor might dissolve the dirt , just FYI, I love your videos.
Thanks Paul for showing us this. It never gets old. All cars are different and changing all the time.
THANK YOU for your invitation Mr. Danner but I'm here in Los Angeles CA and I love your e-book.
Paul your videos are the best on TH-cam.
I use your techniques all the time at my garage.
I really wish you could do some videos on European common rail diesels
thanks lee fox! I will if I start seeing them. We have basically no diesel cars. A few but not many. Not enough for me to get my hands into them.
Shame but please keep your eye out
I recently started watching and i love your training. You are easy for me to understand. I just ordered your book and i am gonna use it a lot i am sure. Thanks and keep up the great work.
+AAMCOMARK thank you! email me through my website, send me your receipt and I'll give you a coupon for a free month of my premium channel
@@ScannerDanneryou have a book😮? I'm really happy I found your channel! Not surprising the soldering iron can make it work, though that's kinda risky, that soldering iron puts a practically little to not voltage, but could sink a lot of current kinda like an AC stick welder, I'm pretty sure it's the gun type iron love my vintage 100watt iron. So as for as for a signal generator, I could probably craft something up that's current limited in the micro amp range which is still probably more current than the VR senor is producing, but should still be enough. One problem I see is the output impedance of the "signal generator tester" and the muiltple difference's of input impedance of the circuit inside the ecu that process the output of the VR, and the frequency out put as it will very slightly between different manufacturers. That soldering iron puts out a frequency of 60hz which if I'm not mistaken is 1800rpm that can very alot though,depending on the diameter of the rotating assembly the VR is picking up on id say on a gas IC car engine 60hz could actually be in the higher 3000rpm range but there's a lot of variables, ah wait I could make it variable too.
Hi from Lithuania, love wach all the videos ,very good step by step explaining showing all the measurements been taken so it makes really easier to understand all the process,good teaching skills!!!
Thanks so much! Greetings from the US
i love the way you put your full effort into making this video. thanks soo much!
contagiousFX
Thorough, detailed, educational and professional.
It is annoying when the crank sensor starts working again. I've had an old -91 Euro Escort in three times for the same no start problem. I checked spark. No spark. And injection pulse, no injection pulse. And then when taking out the scope and connecting it and cranking, don't you think the car starts. Of course it does. However, the last time it actually acted up when connected and I could call a crank sensor. Good work as usual Paul.
sucks doesn't it?
I love these field videos. They are one of my favs. :)
Great vids .While searching for High/Low can scope samples on the net i found your great work.Spent a couple of hours now watching.I have also not given up on using a test light as well as using the other very low current testing devices.It appears that when you reconnected up the vantage after trying to induce switching in the crank sensor wires with your test light that your test leads ended up in Ch 1 and 3/4 instead of Common and Ch1.Would explain the no pattern on the Vantage .And you were able to load the crank sensor circuit up so the leads must have had good contact up to that point. Thanks for sharing
+Auto Elec thanks man! I'll have to go back and look at this when I get time
+ScannerDanner Thanks for the reply, It could also just have been the camera angle that made the leads look too far to the right .I was still watching your vids at midnight last night, great to see and a good stimulator for the Grey matter .With being so busy daily in the w/shop getting the backlog of work out the doors I tend to diagnosing the quickest way I can plus using past experience but i need to make the time to follow up with the scope tests. Do your cars live near the coast seeing the corrosion under the hood. It is great to see you spending the time showing the electrical testing of what you probably already know was faulty before you got the test gear out.
Good demonstration of the floating ground concept Paul. Thanks also for the info on the service engine soon light being used for a diagnostic for the crank signal. I will have to try that when my truck dies again, lol. Been having a intermittent no start condition after a hot soak and I have been unlucky to pinpoint it. I'm ready for next time though, I have a spark tester and my fuel pressure gauge in the back, lol. As usual, always good stuff Paul.
Test light used as a defibrillator to bring a crank sensor back to life, nice!
Wonder if you can use a soldering gun and place it near the crank sensor to induct a 60 htz signal into the harness. That may produce a spark. Works on HEI modules.
Nice vid Danner i liked very much the whole begining to end format and thought progress explanation, for dialog purposes i noticed you were checking for voltage at the inj and coil pack in my diag process i wouldve bypassed those steps knowing that i have no rpm showing up on my rpm one thing i would like to add to the rpm pid when using it for ckp check is to allow more than 5 secounds and give the scanner time to display rpm been bit by that once or twice
Well I certainly appreciate your editing efforts!
Grounding one of the inputs to provide a reference might've let you trigger the sensor input with your test light. Since it's differential input, if you let one side float, it will just float along with the other input and differential input is zero. Ground on one side prevents it from floating and +12V shows up in the differential input.
thanks for sharing Paul, if you would see a weak signal on the scope of sign wave, how many voltage minimum are you inspecting to see on this type of crank sensor, do you measure average or peak to peak. thank you very much I always waiting for your next video.
I look for at least 500mv peak to peak.
Fantastic video, each day I watch your videos, I gain much Experience
How to trigger the Crank Position Sensor?, can you explain clearly
Couldn't it have been a bad wire or connection and somehow you disturbed the wiring harness enough to 'fix' it? Would a wiggle test on the wiring harness have helped to see if the crank sensor dropped out or not while it was running? Also, would tapping on the sensor while it was running to see if it dropped out at all have been a good test to help conclude that the sensor was bad as a posed to a bad wire or connection somewhere? Just spitballing some ideas... Thanks for another great video.
for sure those are possibilities. But I could not get to the sensor to tap on it, nor was the wiring accessible from outside in the parking lot.
Watching some of these old vids. Love the Vantage. It’s small and light and starts right up. And u can record on it too. I guess u would say it has a buffer.
outstanding video and very informative. Don't worry about the ,people complaining about the length of your videos; they can watch the lucky part changers -
Glad you like them!
After back probing that pcm connector and now seeing it starting and running , besides the crank sensor, I would be inclined to remove that 104 pin connector and see if moisture got in and oxidation is starting. Maybe some electrical contact cleaner , and re-seating the pcm connector a few times ?(Even though after losing keep alive memory might need to clean a dirty throttle body or it might not want to idle)
Using differential signaling is quite common for small signals - when you are dealing with signals on the millivolt scale, you do not want all the noise from body or common ground in your measurements.
What does Ford say about the expected magnitude on that signal?
As for why bypass may have caused the sensor to come back to life and why the signal is weak, I have at least three theories:
1- wiggled a bad connection back into workable state as many have already said... could have been a short but it could have been an open too - you get no signal out of a floating sensor if either lead is not connected since there is no path for current flow
2- there was short (or open) in the computer or the wiring and bypass tests blew enough of it out for the crank signal to come through
3- the magnet in the crank sensor lost its magnetization (overheated engine?) and the probing sent enough current through the pick-up coil to magnetize metal around it - in this case, I would expect the sensor to die again next time it warms up enough to lose that weak magnetization or possibly from just fading over time
I like your thought process for sure. Thanks for your contribution. It is well taken.
buy this book best book ever.
Thanks Jose!
I just did a day ago. I am waiting for it.
Outstanding video, we appreciate the editing you do, though I imagine it's pretty time consuming! Do you find that VRS sensors fail by giving a weaker and weaker signal or just stop working completely? Thanks.
It certainly is. I've had to drop my 20 different garages I work for down to 2 or 3. I just need enough case studies now to keep this going. It takes so much time to do this. Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily say I see a pattern here. I have seen them weak, I have seen them just simply fail.
That's quite a commitment you've got to us lot then! I certainly appreciate it and I thank you.
ScannerDanner I agree,thanks for the time you take in presenting your videos,I also appreciate it,I am also a premium subscriber and those videos are excellent and very informative I can most certainly recommend your channel
Jonathan Dean
Thank you so much Jonathan!
Hey great job again! Whats is the diagnostic suite software you use? Where is it and how much?
Great video
my apologies if you have answered this before, but what is the diagnostic software you are using here?
Thanks
would you also want to not reverse polarity on a scope since some dont protected ground, a signal generator off some scopes could possibly be used for a trigger test
Paul , not sure if this has bee asked or answered yet but couldn't you have bridged your shielded Vantage /Verus Snap-on wires (Black and Yellow ) with the wires already back probing the ECU pins and then tapped your test light set on positive onto the other spare black connector ( the one you'd normally fit into the scopes) ? This way both wires would get the pulse and the ECU would then register them as an Accurate (in terms of Equal) so plausible signal ? Or with doing this would that still not work on these floating grounds ? Tim :)
Hey Paul, First off, thanks for these videos. I dont get to wrench as much as I'd like to so these keep me sharp. One question though, I see you have a Verus (I have the Verus Pro) and a Vantage with you. Why do you still use the Vantage? It looks like all the component tests are the same in the Verus. Or is there a simplicity that the Vantage offers that I am missing? Thanks and keep up the great work!
Would a signal generator have been useful in helping with this kind of diagnostics.? If you were to introduce a sinewave into the computer would the car have started? Would it damage the pcm?
It wouldn't have started but we would have gotten spark. It just would have been at the wrong time.
Great video, although I thought variable reluctance sensors operate on AC voltage not the DC you used from B+. What approach would you have taken if this was a Hall effect sensor instead? Thanks.
Nice job, shows you that you don't really need to be an expert on a particular car to troubleshoot it.
When you say that test works for Ford, do you know how far back that would apply (i.e. year)? I am wondering if this would work on something like a 1994 with EEC-IV? If not sure, would I simply just pull the wiring harness off the distributor to see (crank sensor is inside my disty)?
The older Ford distributor systems used hall effect sensors. You can bypass those too. I've done some video on these.
why didnt you worry at all about excessive resistance in those 2 wires? because if you got a signal at the pcm it could have been weak down at the sensor connector causing the no spark but im just guessing so i dont know
forget the helper, why don't you have a bumper switch with all the hi tech gadgets you got?..i love the videos.very in depth and to the point. thanks for the help. you got me out of a bind with my Pontiac.i'm now hoping you could help me with my old ford as well..i'll soon see here..
Thanks Mike
Since it is a low current signal, could the 12 volts have sort of cleaned off the connections at the sensor plug or as u were pushing on the pins at the computer, that slight physical movement could have reestablished connection? Excellent teaching as usual!!!!
+Bill Rimmer thanks Bill. There was the possibility of a pin issue at the PCM but it wasn't that. I tested for the signal first BEFORE doing the bypass test. So if it was a pin contact issue, the voltage measurement itself would have fixed the issue. You'll have to take my word on it, that a new crank sensor was the fix.
And this is why we teach what we teach on our channels scanner we have no lift to lift the car so we are limited to what we have and what the customer who is stranded
Is there a reason why you are not using a power probe. you can power any circuit from the test light. and if u use the power probe (the hook) you can read resistance and amp on the display.
good job on overlaying the video feeds of the rpm etc.
thanks!
I always heard standard test lights are not computer safe. But I see you are using it to check the fuel injector outputs and varioius inputs/outputs of the PCM/ECM. Is this good practice? or is it better to use a computer safe logic probe/tester?
autoparts321 You have to know the system your testing. Some testing is ok other testing will fry electronics. If your not 100% sure of system operation and the test you are doing then stick with computer safe testers. If you know why an incandescent test light won't fry something in a test you have planned then your already self-assured in what your doing and don't need to verify with anyone else.
2000 Mazda Miata, loses rpm at high rpm in load ( while driving). spark is good, fuel is also good but looses injector pulse at like 5-7k rpm and engine seems to have low power, has exhaust leak and a whine which might indicate clogged exhaust and at one point it showed MAF low input and I saw that a blockage would call up a MAF code. my question is will a bad/clogged catalytic converter and muffler cause injection pulse to go out? it feels like a rev limiter and does it about 2 times and then continues to go up and does it maybe once, very inconsistent.
Hey Paul, do nowadays car still use the vrs ? the difference between the vrs and hall effect sensor are one have two wires and the other have three wires? right
With Ford computer, I see a lot of computer pin moisture and not good contact, might be engine running after Scanner Danner removed cover and wiggle wiring harness. Good clip for idea where to start with, thanks Scanner Danner.
I am wanting to do Neg. ground pulse ! There was one that I was intrested in purchasing but there tech support said it was not safe to use.. it could burnout the ICU-Ignitor...can you please give me advice on which one to buy. Do you have a link? Thank you.
Paul at 23:56 you had your leads connected to Ch1 and Ch3, you were missing the com connection, that is why you could not see the signal on the screen, I cant think in a quick and dirty way to check this vrs sensor with just our normal 12vdc stuff... but I guess If you Connect a wire between the two lead wires and make a coil and pass side by side a magneto maybe, you could simulate the signal... I don't work on cars every day, If you could try it one day maybe will work!
haha, nice catch! I need to go back and watch that part. That was very dumb on my part :)
This VRS bypass test works with the test light on all other designs but this floating ground type. I have some other videos where I show it. One in particular that comes to mind is on a Saturn no start that I brought my son Beau with me in the field to troubleshoot.
hi I have a issue with a 03 s10 4.3 the truck went dead on the road... I checked and there is no spark and no fuel pressure, the fuses and relays look good .. I hope you can reply with any ideas thank you
Hi Paul just a couple of comments, I believe on the wasted spark you have 2 switching leads at the coil, I might have checked both of these in case you had one duff coil, The connections on the crank sensor, I might have tried an ohm test to make sure your connections were ok, and possibly an open circuit sensor, I know how much you like ohms tests :-) Fred UK.
if you had one duff coil as its a eight cylinder motor it would start on six cylinders !! and you would still see an RPM ..
John Fountain Hi Yes I am aware of that, I had a 4 cylinder than ran on 2 once..Fred
hi paul very good yours videos, what's the meaning of pull up or pull down circuit? and how to identified them, thank you, see you cheers
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Great video! Doesn't computer know that the starter is active but it is not getting the crank signal? Shouldn't it immediately flag it in the pending or stored code? I would think this would be flagged as immediate code rather than multi-trip detection. I was hoping that you were going to verify that there were no other pending codes.
Do you have any video where disconnecting crank sensor immediately triggers the corresponding check engine light?
It depends on the year of the car and the design of the system on whether or not you will see a crank sensor fault code with a faulty crank sensor.
Here are some examples of when you will have no code:
The system only uses the crank sensor (no cam sensor)
The system uses a synthesized cam signal (GM ecotech engine)
The system is stupid :) Like this car. Seriously, I do not have an answer for you as to why I had no code. I know someone else cleared the codes, so it may have had one. It does have a cam sensor, so you would think the PCM would flag the fault right away.
Just did a 2007 Ford F-150 yesterday with a faulty crank sensor with no code and this system uses 2 different cam sensors. Like I said, the system is stupid. I don't get hung up on it. It is what it is.
I agree with you. It would be trivial for the ECM programmer to put the code out P1901 which translates to "Hey dummy, I am not getting any crank signal, I have intentionally turned off the injectors too"!
Wow. Best video on explaining everything. Subscribed. Thanks
Excellent test, also it seems that 90% of the vehicles you work on are American made? Does that mean there are built cheaper than foreign cars ? Thanks for the video.
I would like to know if the obd2 diagnostic code would indicate a faulty crankshaft position sensor ; a faulty computer ?
Hey I have a Mazda rx 8. I lost the key and was trying to get it replaced but they couldnt program it because it couldn't read the ecu. I thought of maybe replacing the ecu. What are your thoughts?
Hi Paul great video I'm curious who do you use for your wiring diagrams any sites you can suggest?.....Phil
Phil Schmitt www.scannerdanner.com/forum#/20150619/where-to-get-wiring-diagrams-4839109/
when cranking the engine you notice the rpm gauge not moving if your car has one would tell you crank sensor problem?
Hi there, i have a 54 plate astra. I dont have any issues beside my car driving rough when the car with the spanner comes up, initially i thought that was a service symbol until i plugged into obd2 computer and came up as 'crankshaft sensor bank 1' isit a major issue to resolve?
Does the Pico automotive scope have an arbitrary waveform generator output? My non automotive pico does it can easily generate a sine wave. I'm sure it would have no problem fooling the computer.
Never thought of it till now next time I have a floating ground VRS i'll try it out.
No it doesn't but that is a great thought!
ScannerDanner
Wow even Picos entry level 2000 series scopes have one kind of silly they removed it on the automotive line.
It's a really cool function never looked at it before. You can capture a known good crank waveform import it into the AWG and play it back to the PCM sync notch and all. You can also draw it manually or specify a generic wave sine at x hertz, square at x hertz, etc.
Guess that's one of the reasons the Pico auto has its own software to remove the AWG function.
you are an amazing teacher !
I did a wiring test and I'm getting no power or continuity from it.... It goes to the engine fuse box before the BCM. I'm getting good voltage from the PCM.... I just want to put the sensor in... I think the sensor show's signs of weakness or is it possible? It's reading below 2 ohms? My meter fluctuated from 1 and 2, but then again maybe it's fine. Anyway I am certain no continuity in the wire.... Can you help please?
if im getting a signal to the coil but no spark from my plugs, could this mean my crank position sensor is possibly the culprit? already changed new dizzy, checked relay, and im still not getting spark
Hi Paul, do you think the bypass test may not have worked because the sensor was still plugged in? Could the voltage have went down to the sensor than back on the other wire? The computer would have seen no difference in potential across the two wires since electrically they would be the same point.
great thought!!! I'll have to try an unplug it next time before totally writing off the bypass test on the floating ground type of sensor
ScannerDanner Thanks. The only reason I think this might be the case is for that sensor to generate its own ac sine wave like that, the crank must be spinning a permanent magnet and those two wires are attached to a coil of wire that the magnetic field is cutting across to generate the signal. When it's unplugged you might have to ground one pin and pulse the 12v like you were doing so the circuit can see a potential difference, as it's a " floating ground". Hope that makes sense. Thanks for everything you do.
i have noticed you never use the battery negative to put your test light on but always on the engine or body frame.... is that a bad idea to do that on the negative battery pole
?
When I'm doing a spark test with a test light I never go to battery negative as I don't really need to and I'd like to keep any chance of arcing away from the battery. Other times I use battery negative whenever possible
Great video!
I have a 1997 Mercury Grand Marquis with similar problems. I went to try your check engine light trick while turning the engine over, but on my car the whole digital dash goes dark while cranking the engine, including the check engine light. Any tips or tricks? Thank you!
Can't use that test is all. Like I said it is a quick test only. You'll need to verify what you are missing. (Spark, fuel, compression)
th-cam.com/video/S0Fs2i-XBKI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/q40CPwcPlOE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/SUxagOAVS5M/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/z5DpsRwHTfo/w-d-xo.html
These videos will help you even though none of them are on a Ford. It is the same approach.
Thank you, I have verified I do not have spark but I am getting fuel pressure to the rails so I am going to try and check the crank sensor next. I appreciate your help and great videos!
Hi Paul, great video! what about the possibility of a bad connection somewhere between the sensor and the ECM? That might arc over when you put 12v to the sensor establishing a connection.
that is always a possibility, but I was comfortable calling the crank sensor. My ability to test the wiring further in the parking lot where the car was, was not possible so I made the call. I hate not being 100% but I'll take 99% in this case.
Correct me if I'm wrong... Shouldn't the injector be connected???? If it's a ground side controled injector, You can't see the grounding without the 12v applied to the injector. Under these circumstances, I'd connect a noid lamp or a test bulb across the injector connector to make a quick injector pulse width test.
Sure you can, with the test light connected to battery positive like I did in the video.
The injector does not need to be connected to check for pulse.
Every video about diagnosing sensors makes me miss my 1980 Ford Fairmont with it's carbureted I-6 engine, I could fix anything on that thing without much more than common hand-tools.
Use a magnet to trigger crank sensor screwdriver tip magnetic works really well.
Hey Paul, great video as always, check out the AutoSim automotive sensor simulator, just under $200, probably handy to have in your arsenal.
good idea thanks!
Have the same prob with a 96. Notice when you turn on the key without starting it you heard the throttle body set itself? When there's a no start you won't hear that noise under the hood. Can be a bad ground. I'm gonna look at my problem and post back. Mines an intermittent no start also. Crank no start. Turn key on and I don't here the throttle body set itself. Wiggle test then you do and it starts. Can be a bad connection somewhere. Going to see if it has an eec pwr relay. When you put the crank sensor in have you had any more intermittent no starts? Did the crank sensor fix the problem? Don't know when key on sends signal to crank sensor then triggers throttle body ..fuel than spark. Thanks for the info.
A 1996 shouldn't be an electronic throttle body?
+ScannerDanner I forget the name of it. But when you do a KOEO (key on engine off) it makes a noise in the engine compartment. Like something is resetting before it's ready to start. When you first did it you didn't hear it. But when the surprise start happened you heard that noise under the hood then it started. Did the crank sensor fix it?
yes, a new crank sensor was the fix. Sorry about not being able to answer your noise question
+ScannerDanner it's ok. The noise I'm talking about is the electronics under the hood seems like an electronic sensor is setting itself. On your vid when it didn't start you heard no noise under the hood. Then on your vid when you turned the key you heard some electronic noise then it started right up like the ecc power relay worked and set a signal to the electronics under the hood. I'll watch the vid again and show you the points of vid I'm talking about. Thanks for the info. My 96 is an intermittent problem. I've been doing wiggle tests to try to make it happen and it hasn't yet. I told my neighbor to test drive it and I swapped the eec power relay with the horn relay. Seems the eec relay was getting hot.
Those relays do get hot man and it's normal. Yeah, if you could give me a time of those two events, that would really help.
Thanks!
BTW, intermittent crank sensor failures are common
I got a F150 4.6L and the crank sensor i believe is like right under the A/C compressor it seems my ac compressor is soaked and so are the plugs and sensors around it.. Could this cause a U1900 or U1950 code cause thats the only codes i get. btw My truck wont start either Just crank looks simular to this I really think it could be the Cranksensor but wouldnt it had thrown a P0 Code?
Would this apply to OBD-I and/or OBD-II Fords?
Which part my friend? The check engine light test or the bypass test?
ScannerDanner Sorry, the check engine light "feature". Oh and I mention you at the end of my water pump part 2 video.
Hi Paul I have been watching a lot of your vids which to me an oldtimer are great!. You are an excellent teacher. Unfortunately for me I am in the uk and as a result have a european vehicle. What I would like to suggest if its possible is if you could outline for a simpleton. Is what the normal sequence of events that leads to a normal starting /running situation. then to have a series if vids saying what would happen if a certain input failed at a certain point. Or a sensor died or malfunctioned at certain point how and why these inputs/sensor malfunctions have effects on others and the effect on others throughout the engine.
You may have detailed this in your book I dont know but I am at the point of asking where can I buy it. Let me know if its possible to produce the suggestions above as it would be really helpful. I am a retired nurse and we always started our training with normal functioning before moving onto abnormal. I am aware that not all systems are designed the same but they maybe similar. with slight deviation from manufacturer to manufacturer.
I have been a part-time petrolhead and am pleased to be able focus more on the electronic controls side in my retirement. The mechanical side is not a problem to me at all. but I am personally a keen student and very willing to learn.
whatever I have already learned such a lot from you so thanks very much for that.
many many thanks Colin Lyne
Thanks Colin! I have exactly what you're looking for on ScannerDanner Premium. There is a 14 day free trial. If you subscribe, then immediately cancel, you'll still get the full 14 days and you will not be charged. Check out the material, a suggestion is to start with my chapter 1 playlist. You do not need my book to follow along.
Or maybe start with chapters 21 and 22 (ignition inputs and no start no spark diagnosis). Let me know what you think okay?
Hey Paul many thanks your a Star!!!
Hi Paul Yes many thanks for that really kind suggestion cheers Colin
for sure man. Hope to see you there.
Teacher Paul Danner .. by viewing Wiring Diagram I knew this Crank Sensor is kind of Variable Reluctance Sensor. In my Country (except dealers, even few) use Wiring Diagrams for Diagnosis/Repair. At local none of Technicians using Wiring Diagrams and also not Oscilloscopes/Waveforms often to reach the real fault. But they are working and earning quite cool. I need your suggestion how to deal these Cars without Wiring Diagrams? My friend who worked 2 years at a Shop, he worked only Electrical works. He said we just follow wiring colors.
Here you go my friend
scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here/16-need-service-info-check-here.html
Thanks soooooooo much, Teacher.
I have a 2002 ford focus SE manuel transmission and one day we were driving going about 30 miles an hour and the car died it was cranking until we took it to a mechanic they put in a new fuel pump and spark plugs and replace fuel injectors and now they are telling me I need a major engine repair that my engine is blown , before my car ran great can u give me some advise because for some reason I don't believe them . and I haven't seen a diagnostic tester
Holy crap that's bad man. All of it. Hate to throw a fellow mechanic under the bus but they freaking blew it man (the diagnosis). If the engine is blown, there is no way you should be paying for any of that.
Dodge Caravan: Can a crank sensor be intermittently bad? My mechanic replaced the ignition coil twice already. It runs good for a day or two then it wont start. Then a day later it started. He didn't get any spark when it wouldn't start. Now its starting up and everything is ok but it probably will not start tomorrow. He checked relays and wiring and they were fine. any tips would be greatly appreciated.
I see now after watching the whole video that indeed the crankshaft sensor can be intermittent. thanks
Dan D. Dirges The video didn't show an intermittent crank sensor, it was dead and through whatever means it came back to life. It never went away after coming back so by definition that would not be an intermittent. Your mechanic needs to look at more than the ignition coil, thinking that replacing the coil a second time would be the right fix is insane.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Killer2600 Turned out it was the Ignition Switch. The mechanic replaced the ignition coil twice, and the cam and crank sensor. It worked for about a week then would not start intermittently. Then he replaced the ignition switch and that fixed it.
Love your video , could you use a DMM on ac volts and crank the engine to see an ac volt signal output of crank sensor
I want to test my ICU-Ignitor on my 1994 Toyota Pickup 22RE Engine
and I want to purchase the right Test Light that wont fry my ICU - Coil - ECU.. I have seen other youtube videos that use a certain one that was safe... do you know of one that I should buy?
Hi
great video
you could try an ohm meter across the pins,using the same technique. As the ohm meter does have a small amount of voltage , might be enough to fool the ecm , this is a test we use , to test electronic circuits,
The ohm meter produces a steady DC signal, not an sign wave like the crank sensor would. The voltage of the ohm meter would also be very very low (like a few mV depending on your meter), not the 5V the ECM was looking for. So I don't think an ohm meter would help here.
I have being using this method for years, for testing inputs on processors, that need feedback
yes it is a mV dc, and the signal would be mV ac range.
I think the voltage would be too low on the ohms scales. Maybe the diode scale would have worked? I should have tried that. Good tip!
Pet Rock's Garage
actually the ECM only typically needs to "see" around 500mv to trigger the AD converter. (to convert to AC sign wave to a digital square wave)
This was not a 5v type of sensor.
diode check would be good there is around 0.6V on these to turn on a transistor or diode,
Wish Puerto Rico would have Your Premium Channel.... Your videos are great... Thanks
31:45 21:04 27:30 For the purpose of doing bypass testing on Ford crank sensors with floating grounds, I suppose you could build your own signal generator with a Ford 36-1 reluctor ring and a variable reluctance sensor. You would have to manually spin it to create a signal. This would only make sense if you work on a lot of Fords. (Wouldn't the A/C sine wave from a soldering iron cook the PCM?)
You don't need a specific reluctor wheel as you're not attempting to create the proper time, you're just looking for a reaction. So just a sensor and a chunk of metal (chisel works) to move back and forth across the sensors
I was wondering if you know where to find a crankshaft sensor on a 1994 corvette. No one seems to know. I have asked automotive shops and parts stores. They say its on lower right side of engine block. I even removed the starter and its not there. One vette owner told me it may be behind the timing chain cover. Any help would be great! Thanks
I am directing all help requests to my forum. Sign up (it's free) and create a new post. Be sure to add a name under "alias" as this is the name that will appear in the post.
Here is the link to the forum.
www.scannerdanner.com/ForumRetrieve.aspx?ForumID=3226
If the CEL stays ON, when cranking then no signal from the CKP (crank). Good test at 5:20, and 32:20. BTW, I own a Ford (Contour). Moisture on the connector can short out or weaken the CKP signal. WD40 to the rescue! The CKP signal *needs* to be strong (high amplitude sine wave) or else the ECM does diddly.
Could you check resistance through the crank sensor circuit.
Instead of a test light with always moves I never use it only a fluke meter because that ground leads stays put and I only move the positive it avoids wires coming off ground
Thanks for the good video, one question though, why doesn't the by test hurt the pcm. that ckp is a very small signal, 1/2 to 1 volt tops. How can you safely put 12 volts to it? thanks
It's not always small. I've seen a VR sensor produce in excess of 25v at higher RPMs
A characteristic of this sensor is low voltage at low speeds and higher voltage at higher speeds.
I had a no crank no start on a navigator no dtcs or rpm on the scanner when cranking so i back probed the crank sensor and i had about half a volt, but with the sensor connected i did not have any voltage because the two wires were pinched together when somebody replaced the timing chain cover gaskets.
Is it possible that by checking the ckp at the pcm only you could have had the same problem i had those two wires making contact ?
read my recent post to everyone on this video. It should be at the top
could a bad crank sensor cause no fuel pressure as well? I was reading that if the computer doesnt get a signal from the crank sensor it wont spin the pump.
+Micheal Deacon that is correct but most systems will still prime the pump during the initial key on event for 1-2 seconds
Do you think the reason you didn't get a signal by putting 12V to the floating ground signal wire was because you didn't complete the circuit by connecting battery negative to the other wire? If the ground is truly floating, there was no way for power to make its way through the test light back to the battery.... Were you concerned about applying 12V to both sides of the circuit? Last week in the garage I took a broken headlamp that used three 1.4V batteries in series, and soldered an inline fuse and a 5000 ohm resistor in series to one of the two wires that comes from the salvaged battery case. It gave me a simple, extremely limited current 4.2V signal generator that should work well for a case like this with a floating ground. I would briefly touch the two leads to the two signal wires leading back to the PCM. If I complete the circuit I get a 4.2V square wave signal, and the extra resistance of the line should protect anything downstream. As you know those signal wires lead to a second big resistor inside the PCM, but I'm not too concerned if there is a voltage drop between the two resistors since I'm really just looking for scan tool evidence the signal is being received. You and many others say that 12V through a test light is safe, but with limited practical experience I was looking for something generally useful but a little lower in voltage.
I've tried all different way to trigger these floating ground VR sensors with no luck. I like the way you are thinking though. Somethings to try the next time. Thanks brother
Basically, I'm asking you if the crankshaft sensor or the camshaft sensor will if they are bad or if one is bad will it make my honda not fire or have injector pulse because I have no power to the fuel pump.
Do you have power momentarily to the fuel pump when the key is first turned on? Critical question. Can't help further without knowing this.
@@ScannerDanner When I first turn the key on the fuel pump is not kicking on it's like I'm not getting any power to the pump or the injectors. As I said tho I did check the fuel relay in my other honda and the relay is good. However no power to the injectors as well when I back probed them. I appreciate any help thanks in advance.
@scannerDanner With my key switch turned on my fuel pump is not kicking on and with the key switch turned on My tester light hooked to the positive on the battery and back probing the injectors the tester light still doesn't light up. When I'm turning the key switch off and on I can hear the fuel relay box clicking and I know the relay is good because I tested it in my other honda. but as I stated I changed the distributor and still no spark. So I kinda wanted to fix the fuel problem before moving on to the no spark. And to be honest with you I was periodically unhooking the battery and reconnecting when this problem occurred. So I think I zapped something. So new distributor and still no spark or power to the fuel pump or the injectors. But the fuel pump isn't kicking on at all
@@bigdog5389 Kevin, watch this first th-cam.com/video/6CMZ4g8n0FQ/w-d-xo.html, then this one th-cam.com/video/QVxOQTSPyGY/w-d-xo.html
@@ScannerDanner I will leave you alone after this question because I don't want to keep bugging you. but with me having a brand new distributor with still no spark would that take me to a bad crankshaft sensor?
Crank sensor is good got spark and fuel ran last night now won't start what should I do
Wish you would do this to a 2005 sports Trac 4.0 l that I have not been able to crank in a while now
i have a 99 mercury villager with the 3.3 I have strong spark and the crankshaft position sensor is suspect but could it result in a stone cold no start? with the spark its hard to imagine the sensor would prevent the engine from starting since mine says its only purpose is to detect misfires
+KeyWestBluesX that is a Nissan engine and a very goofy design. The distributor contains everything needed for spark and fuel and the crank sensor on the flywheel is for misfire monitoring only.
These distributors are high failure items. The upper bearing will go bad and pump metal shavings all over the optical pick-ups interfering with the signals