This is too funny. I don't know for whom it is more embarrassing, the umps or the announcers. I think this crew is gonna have its collective ass handed to them by the ump chief.
I'm only watching it to the end to see if the announcer figures it out. He wasn't paying attention when the runner stayed at 3b in the pitching changer, and he wasn't paying attention when the runner went back to 2b after the timeout and argument.
I think his confusion is that he thinks whatever happened was on the at bat after the runner casually strolled to 3rd base, so he wasn’t analyzing the play before the pitching change.
@@brianhixson5357 He actually doesn’t. Many times on his videos he has stated incorrect rules. He is a poser, albeit a successful grifting poser. I’ll give him that.
That would not have worked though because there is no rule that R2 had to go back and touch second after the ball was put in play. Once the umpire puts the ball in play, R2 was free to touch third an then attempt to score after touching third. The umpire would have to correct his own error of putting the ball in play with the runner out of position.
@TheKevinhuston why not? If it's a hit and run and runner gets a huge lead, but the batter pops out up, the runner still needs to tag up or he's doubled off
I coached HS baseball in the 90's. During one of our summer league games the opposing coach came out of the dugout to make a pitching change, but before he could get two steps out of the dugout the pitcher tossed him the ball while he was looking at his lineup card and deciding who was going to be moved around after he changed pitchers. He was looking down and never saw the ball coming and never saw it as it bounced down the dugout steps and into the dugout. The umpire killed the ball, gave all of my runners two bases and we scored two runs. The other head coach was absolutely livid, not at his pitcher, but at the umpires. He insisted the there was a timeout as soon as he left the dugout. Nope, nowhere to be found in any rulebook. He then tried to argue that the umpires should have known he was going to call for a time out and granted it before the ask was made. Nope, that's not how umpires work. I became an umpire after leaving coaching and worked nearly 3,000 ball games over the next 20 years. We assume NOTHING. Then he insisted that he HAD called timeout while he was still in the dugout. He then just went berserk and started cussing the umpires out. Needless to say, he got ejected. Never in my life have I seen a manager or coach, at any level come closer to having his scalp burst open and his skull explode out of anger. This guy made Earl Weaver look like a novice. To this day, I still chuckle about it when I get reminded of it.
Seems the umpires open a can of worms. When a coach walks out from the dugout toward the pitcher's mound it only means one thing. Just like a catcher wanting to talk to his pitcher the umpire just grants time. Trouble is always there, don't look for it.
@@Johnleonard-w5z If I remember correctly, the catcher had repeatedly asked for timeout, this was the third or fourth during the batter's plate appearance, the manager or coach had made a mound trip too. It was an obvious stalling tactic to let a relief pitcher warm up.
It wasn't just one umpire monitoring the play on the field; it was a crew of umpires and none of them picked up on what happened. Either they are stupid and incompetent or just don't care about the game or their jobs.
Wait -- is this for real? The layers of incompetence! First, nobody on either team or the umpire crew or the broadcast booth notices the runner advancing on the pitching change. That's already absolute gold! Does anybody give a shit at this game? But somehow it gets even deeper -- even when the umpire fixes it, nobody on the broadcast team even points out that the ump is sending the runner back to second, and can't figure out what's happening... how is it possible for every single person at the game to be this clueless? Like, how does the broadcaster sit there, confused by the situation, trying his hardest to figure it out, and not even notice that the ump is sending the runner back to a different base? Unless maybe he remembered the runner had been on second, and when he saw him on third, he just assumed he'd forgotten seeing him tag up on the fly?
The score bug operator has 10x more of an idea of what's going on than the announcer. Never once did he change his set up to reflect the runner's illegal advancement, and even navigated the count and outs during the redo of the at bat as well as Zastryzny's pitch count resetting.
@torynhill8956 Reminds me of those times the home plate ump sends a runner to first on a walk when the score bug is reflecting the correcr count of 3-1
He acknowledged that a runner was on third when he was discussing the possibility of a run scored on the balk, but didn't notice that the runner was now on second for the actual out.
@@markdaniel8740 Whats more interesting to me is that the manager got all pissy and gets tossed from the game when he is told what happened and what they are going to do. I am guessing that he felt that since the umpires didn't discover the runner in the wrong position until after the initial out that it was too late to fix it and that the base runner should get to stay. Even more interesting is NO one on the defense even after figuring out the runner was on the wrong base decided to throw it back to 2nd which would have theoretically been a force out as soon as the umpire declared the ball ready for play on on the now 2x put out batter after his first out. Crazy stuff!
@@alexanderfpv6655 You would be surprised how many producers are probably in the background watching the game feeding info to the announcers. I used to listen to a morning show and the main host did play-by-play for NCAA and NFL games on the radio. He would go into the workings of how it worked and how if he missed something there was always a producer handing him notes about the last few plays to make sure he knew everything that happened. Sure football has way more action to pay attention to but I'm sure its similar. Although I could be completely wrong about baseball as he only did football.
I played minor league ball in _San Diego in 80-81, we had a rule: _"When in doubt, Tag him out."_ We got burnt during our first season with the league, so after that, If we had a question about a player, the guy nearest to him got the ball and we tagged him out. That gave us a starting or ending point for the remaining conversation. In this case, the base runner was out of position on third base. A tag out would have ended this conversation.
That is wrong. There is no rule requiring R2 to go back and touch second base after the ball is put in play. The umpire would have had to rule (before the next play) that he erred in putting the ball in play prematurely before the runners were in a good position, but R2 doesn't have to be on second or ever touch second again since he had already touched second before advancing to third. Once the play was over and the ball was caught in LF, the play should have stood and R2 should have been allowed to stay at third base.
@@TheKevinhuston By allowing the runner to stay, you are saying that the defense should have appealed before the pitch. This play has nothing to do with an appeal. The offense made a mistake by not being at the legal base. The umpire mistakenly puts the ball in play. Then, you want to penalize the defense for not pointing out a mistake by the offense and umpires??
@@MwD676Yes, they didn’t appeal before the next play. This is consistent with the damaged bat rule. If the batter uses a damaged or defective bat, the defense must object beforehand. In MLB play, there have been several times that a player has hit a grand slam with a damaged bat. The defense then seemed to have the batter declared out because they used defective equipment. Since they noticed the damaged bat during the at-bat and didn’t object, the grand slams stood. You lose your right to appeal if you play another play before appealing. If they had appealed before the pitch was thrown, he would have had to go back to second base. Because they didn’t object before the pitch was thrown, the runner was safe at third. The rule seldom has to be applied, it has been mostly used during batting because a batter had a broken bat that he didn’t realize was broken.
@@fifiwoof1969 We don’t know if he “cheated” or was confused. But it is the umpire’s obligation to only put the ball in play when everyone is at their legal spot.
If the Sounds were paying attention as soon as the play resumed after the change the pitcher needed only to step off and toss to second.... in fact,had the outfielder tossed to second after he got the flyout that would have counted too. As soon as the play was dead the Sounds were screwed.
This is the only thing anyone should be thinking before arguing - my very first thought was, "the only way this works for the runner is if time was never called."
A quick look at the graphic in the corner and the position of the runners on the field would have saved the announcer and production crew a lot of embarrassment.
How did the umpiring crew not notice the illegal advance from second to third during the pitching change? Even if they did not actually see the guy walking from first to third, it was their job to keep track of where the runners were. Before pitching change: Runners on second and first. After pitching change: Runners on third and first. HOW did the umpires think the lead runner advanced to third during the timeout? Same with the announcers.
NOT the umpires' responsibility to track the runners for the defense. The runner was simply leading off the bag at second when the ball was put in play. The fact he was standing at third is immaterial. As long as he touches third before the pitcher starts his motion, it's a steal like any other.
@@TomKaren94That is ridiculous. The runner on second base advanced to third base during the time the relief pitcher was warming up, which is a timeout period and NOT a live play time. That is clearly illegal.
@@TomKaren94 It is absolutely the umpire's job to track where the runners are when the ball is put into play. To say otherwise is absurd - how else would they know whether a runner tagged up or where they need to tag up?
@@TomKaren94that’s some priceless confidently incorrect statement there. Time out was called the runner can’t advance and it is the umpires job to make sure the field is ready before resumption of play.
I love how the production crew focused in on the runner at third, with the inset box showing runners at 1st and 2nd, all the while the announcer was completely clueless! Haha!!
Hey! Morgan Ensburg! We were on the same pony league (Blue)team in Hermosa in 8th grade. Cool dude and it was obvious back then what a "Natural" to the game he was indeed. I loved seeing him with the Astro's but hadn't kept tabs. Cheers!
It is completely on the umpires to ensure that the runners are at their legal base prior to putting the ball in play. If they thought the runner or coach was actually cheating intentionally, they would be ejected and face serious fines from the commissioner’s office. But even if that [ejection] happened, the runner is not out. He would be replaced by a pinch runner.
@@RyanRobbins007 advancing during a dead play - I think (no expert here) he's required to tag up to the last base he legally obtained prior to the commencement of play (e.g., the next live pitch) and since he didn't, he should have been out. Or something. Either way, he was trying to cheat as the play was dead during a pitching change. Cheat or was just stupid, but I'd bet on cheating.
@@Chrsly Again, it is on the umpires to require the runner to be at his legal base. It is not a tag up or appeal situation in any way. Highly doubt he was intentionally cheating. Just lost track of where he was after a pitching change. Even so, the mistake is on the umpires. They need to require the runner to be in the correct place. And if he refuses, the player could be ejected. But there still would not be an out. Just a substitute.
So it appears they totally negated the at bat where the batter flew out to left. After the ejection, they move the runner back to 2nd. Then the same batter flies to 3B in foul ground. It seems that the manager was upset with the decision to negate the fly out in order to fix the umpire’s error on not requiring the runner to be on his legal base.
Honestly, I can't blame him. I would expect either the runner's advancement to be considered illegal and be is forced to return AND the batter is out, or them to say that since the pitch was thrown, they can't throw to 2nd to challenge the prior play so the runner stays at 3rd AND the batter is still out. But in no circumstance would I expect them to allow the batter to hit again. Imagine if he hits a homerun there.and the outcome of the game is changed because the hitting team advanced illegally. Double slap in the face because it was almost certainly the defending team that pointed out the error, and they arguably got punished for it. (I say arguably because I suppose some people might prefer a certain batter get a 2nd chance at bat than a runner advance, depending on the situation)
@@fuhkerzi'm not an expert in MLB or MiLB rules, but this seems absurd, to let the batter bat again, after he was legally put out??? The umps are seemingly gifting the offense a free do over for no reason. Like you said, if anybody should be punished here it's the team on offense. Their runner illegally advanced. And ok, maybe cuz nobody noticed it before the next pitch the rule says he gets to stay at 3B. But moving him back to 2B and then letting the batter have a do over is deeply bizarre. The umps literally gifted them a 4-out inning.
@@timwakefield It makes sense though. With a runner on 3rd, they were trying for a sacrifice fly with 1 out. With the runner on 2nd, they obviously wouldn't do that.
@@THErggee True, but the umps are still *rewarding* them. It's the offenses fault that their runner advanced illegally. Or maybe that's the duty if the umpires and, mainly, the defense. If they had appealed at 2B, after the runner illegally advanced and before throwing a pitch, the runner should be called out. But they didn't notice. But I still don't understand how having a do-over is fair. It literally gives the offense a 4 out inning -- again I'm not expert but I can't remember ever seeing a ruling like this. EDIT: In my understanding, the (original) out should count, and the runner who snuck to 3B is now allowed to stay there because the defense had to appeal before throwing a pitch. 2 outs, runners on the corners, play continues as normal. Letting the batter hit again seems absurd.
But on the final out he was back at 2nd... why was the manager elected if they sent the runner back? How did the production not catch him walking back?
Announcer: I don’t know what the umpires are discussing here. There’s runners at first and third and my graphic has yellow dots on first and second. Everything looks normal to me.
I don't believe a substitution is possible without a timeout but certainly not a pitching substitution where a new pitcher comes in and throws warm up pitches.
@@gaspara9817 ...time out has to be requested by one of the teams before an umpire makes it official. there are instances where an umpire will call a time out for other reasons. if the team making the pitching change does not ask for a time out and the umpires have not called their own time out, the runner can advance. time outs are not automatic.
Why are people, especially the umpires, struggling with this? This is not "cheating." The position of the runner is the exact same as if he were leading off the bag at second when the ball was put in play. The mistake by the defense was to put the ball in play with the runner standing at third. If he is on third base when the pitcher puts the ball in play, it's a steal... as long as he's there before the pitch. Otherwise, he's still on second and can be forced out after the fly out. In this case, the only option I can think of is some kind of "patently unfair" phrasing in the rule book to support the umps reversing the play and moving the guy back to second. Otherwise, if I were behind the plate, I'd be telling the defense's manager that it's not the umpires' responsibility to track to offense for them, the play stands, next batter up.
In this case, it is the umpire's job to keep track of the runners. The umpire restarts play, not the pitcher, and is responsible for first ensuring the runners are at their legal bases.
I wonder what rules would be used to address this situation? I would have thought that the defense would have until the next pitch to tag him out, or tag second to make him out, but since they did not - the play should stand (fly out made and runner is now safely on third). Does anyone know what rules (for this league/level of play) apply?
It is umpire error. They should have required the runner to return to his legal base (2nd). They did not do that prior to putting the ball in play. So they needed to fix the error. That would be in 8.02c
The umpires have to correct the error before the next play. Once the play was over, it should have stood, which means two outs and runners at 1st and 3rd. At no time could the defense have fixed the problem themselves since R2 is not required to go back and touch second base since he had already touched it when the ball was live. The coach should have brought it up to the umpire before the pitch obviously.
It's interesting, the MLB rule book says a "runner cannot advance on a dead ball" unless the base is awarded because of something that happened when the ball "was alive". But there's nothing in the rulebook about what to do if the runner advances in contradiction to the dead ball rule. So I think in this case the umps got it right when they figured out what happened, everyone goes back to the positions they were supposed to be at when the ball became dead. Runner back to second and batter back at the plate...even resetting the count to 0-0 if they have to. What's really bizarre is if the guy hit into a weird double play, like a liner to third and then the 3B steps on third for the force. The team that illegally advanced could argue their player was on the wrong base at the start of the play and they would probably also get a do-over with the runners set to their correct places. Baseball is weird man. Feels like something like this should be an automatic out or a tag out situation, the runner put himself beyond the bag he was entitled to, so he should be at risk at the very least of a tag play.
I just find it funny that the announcers never once even noticed the runner "advancing" during the pitching change was what started the whole confusion. I'd be curious to know whether the runner was trying to pull a fast one, or just completely brain farted and just stayed on 3rd after talking with the base coach thinking that's where he was supposed to be. I do know one thing, I'm going to try to pull this off in beer league softball one of these days lol.
Does the radio announcer have access to the MiLB livestream for replays? Seems the only person who got it right the entire time was the guy running the graphics for the stream.
@@carlstrickland7960 The only guy who knew something was off was the guy doing the graphics. Which I find funny, because you would think he would have seen the runner on third, thought he missed something, and "corrected" it. But he's the only person right.
My fav in slow pitch is to have your 3rd base coach run home on a shallow pop up Draw the throw with the runner safety at third waiting for the outcome Usually in slow pitch pitch the 3rd base coach is just a player not due up that inning
I guess my question is did the announcer notice during the rest of the inning that the runner was back at second??? He talked about him being at 3rd like it just made sense so I was surprised that it wasn't noticed when they replayed the at bat.
Was the announcer at the game? Was he doing this remotely? Over fifty years of baseball and I've never seen that. I can only imagine how Earl Weaver would have argued that. Thanks for the video.
You can’t really see what had happened but I am curious about the initial play. The 2B obviously flubbed the throw and had to make his own recovery. Was the base runner already taking his turn to third and never fully returned to second? So was he advancing the entire time and no time out called to stop the play? So since he had not returned he was still advancing to third and just continued to advance because play was not dead at that time? I love the minors but some times the lack of camera angles and replays (for broadcasts) don’t make the best for situations like this.
It's an interesting issue: who has the responsibility to ensure that the base runners return to where they are supposed to be during and after a time out? Any coaches out there?
Someone who knows better please correct me if im wrong but it felt like the batting team cheated by stealing the base but then it ended up with them having an out given back to them. So they benefitted from it anyway
I kept waiting for the announcer to pick up on it but never did. He even mentioned the runner at 3rd base (who was supposed to be on 2nd). Even the graphic in the corner had it right but he didn't make the connection. I'd like to say I'm immune from that kind of thing but I can easily see me doing the same thing if put in his shoes.
Since I am not an expert on the rules, I am probably wrong but.... I am under the impression the team in the field can only appeal the current or last play up until the next play starts (a pitch, etc.).
Right, but this is not an appeal play. The umpire isn't allowed to restart play with a runner out of position. That makes this a nullification of an umpire's mistake, rather than an appeal of a runner's mistake.
I am not sure they got that correct? I would think After the second out the pitcher gets the ball steps on the mound , then steps off and throws to second and the base runner on third is out to end the inning .
It's not an appeal play situation because the illegal advance took place during a dead ball. That makes it the umpires' responsibility to keep track of the runner, not the defense's.
Rule 8.02(c). This play is not covered specifically, but the MLB rulebook gives the umpires full discretion to "make it right" when a problem in the game is discovered for which the rulebook offers no specific guidance. It is unclear if they can do so after a pitch has been thrown, but their decision seems reasonable. That said, I would also have ejected the baserunner for unsportsmanlike conduct but allowed a substitute to take his (correct) place at second base. There is no provision I can see for calling the runner out. From Rule 8.02(c): "...If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those runners would have been after the play...."
He was off the the base that he had legally been on when the ball was hit and did not return after the call ball was caught. I believe they could have tagged second or him and he should have been out.
@@mikeslater6246, technically, perhaps, but given that no umpire spotted the "error" (a/k/a unsportsmanlike act), that would be stretching it a bit. I suspect that's what the manager was arguing, but I think - and it's arguable, but it's what the umps chose - treating the fly ball as a non-play - and I think it's reasonable choice. I mean... everyone screwed up. So the umps are just trying to find a fair solution in a short amount of time.
@@StevenBLevy you make some valid points. But having coached Little League baseball our coaching staff's philosophy was make the play and make the Umpire make a ruling. It would have been interesting at least to see what they did.
@@StevenBLevy and for the life of me I can't believe that the second baseman, third baseman, or shortstop didn't point out that the runner on second base was not on second base.
Who, if anyone, in the park actually noticed it? Seems like the sounds players recognised something was up during the play, but even they couldn't figure out what.
Waste everybody's time? Plays like this are what people remember about baseball and why people love it. The folks at the stadium will be telling this story years from now. This was even better than the shoe polish plays in the World Series.
The second the SS realized the runner was on the wrong base, he should have either 1) tagged the runner, or 2) thrown to 2nd and 2b touched the bag. Clear grounds for appeal that can't be muddied up by clueless umps.
If the umpires don't have a clue, then they won't rule an out on appeal. Fortunately, this isn't an appeal play situation, so the umpires can do whatever they want to nullify their mistake.
Hey baseball nerds! Legit question: Had the pitch not resulted in a flyout or a foul ball (requiring a trip back to 2nd) would that not have just legit counted as a steal if he didn't touch third after play resumed? Or does he have to be established on 2nd on the resumption of play for that to count as a legit steal?
The outcome of the play is irrelevant. Runners are not allowed to advance during a dead ball. Umpires should not have restarted play with a runner out of place. That's why they end up waving off the whole action after the pitching change.
The Runner advanced when the ball was not in play. Upon the next pitch, the ball was in play. The catcher should’ve thrown it to third and tagged him out. The Runner should have returned to second before the ball was put in play
Lionel here in Central California. As a softball official and player, as well as a baseball player. There are very few rules differences other than mound and base path distances. With that being said, the runner on third should have been called out for not being on the base at the call of time out. Just saying….
They were lucky that there was even any change. Typically if you complete a play after an issue like this, they are supposed to let it stand because you didn't appeal in time.
Funny how a baseball announcer couldn't figure it out. It was so obvious, he even said runners on first and second, the graphic had it, and the runner went back to second. He couldn't for the life of him replay in his head what happened 4 minutes earlier.
Amazing, guy walks to 3rd, but NO ONE knows he's NOT suppose to be there. Instead of a do-over, runner should've been out directly after batter flew out to left. I think one of the fielders was looking at 2nd as if he wanted to throw it there.
after the manager was ejected, number 35 is back on 2nd base where he should have been...the umpires missed it, and the manager gets tossed for pointing it out before sending the runner back to 2nd and calling Stenson back to hit? and the announcers didn't see any of it? wtf...
The manager is not ejected for pointing it out. The manager is ejected for screaming at umpires and rejecting their ruling. Whether they are right or wrong, they do their best, and you have to respect them.
The fact that the announcers missed the "runners on base" situation is not a good look for them. They're keeping score and should have noticed that the runner moved up on the pitching change.
So that’s the way they solved it? They nullified the out, put the runner at second, and gave the batter another AB. I’d be pissed if I was that manager too. No wonder he got thrown out. The baserunner broke the rules. Should have been able to just tag him up at second or something, and call it a double play. Don’t care for that call.
Was time ever called? If you come out and do a pitching change, and time is never officially called, it's live baseball. If the runner can walk to third unopposed, that's a stolen base. My guess is, time was never officially called or granted. When the umps realized that, they were embarrassed and retroactively called time and made the runner go back to second. My guess.
I think, if at any point before the first pitch after the illegal steal, they could throw back to second and the offending runner would be out. Once the pitch is thrown, the runner owns third.
Did he ever figure out what happened? He even watched a replay of the fly out with the runner on third and didn't notice that the runner was then back on second.
This is what happens when your entire team falls asleep. The manager, all the coaches, the new pitcher and even the announcer are just not paying attention. The correct way to handle this is to have the new pitcher touch the rubber, then step off and throw the ball to 2nd base. Make the appeal and then the runner is out. As soon as the new pitcher threw one ball, that was the end of any appeal. The umpires cannot interject themselves into this situation once the next play starts. This manager should know that. He's just covering for his own ineptitude. The umpires also do not understand the rules and should read them at least one time, cover to cover.
This is not an appeal play situation. By rule the umpire is not allowed to restart play with a runner off his last legally touched base. The umpire nullified his mistake and did not misapply any rules.
How the hell do the announcers not realize this? If you don’t recognize it in the first place, you literally had 1st and 3rd, acknowledged it, then acted like nothing happened when it went back to 1st and 2nd.
They are making an appeal after the next legal pitch. Too late to correct this. However, the umpires should have never let this happen in the first place. Play should have never been restarted until runners were placed at the bases that they were supposed to be on. UMPIRES' FAULT. I believe that this correction at this point is completely against anything that is in the rule book. These umpires should never work another game at this level.
So when play resumes, they should have tagged the runner at third and he's out. He only earned second, not third. I never heard of "do-over" in baseball.
@@Bryan-yl7mg Yes, you are correct. Actually I meant as soon as the defense noticed and before making any pitches. The offensive player is at third. Throw the ball over and tag him. The third base umpire will either call him safe or out. If the umpire is doing his job, he will call the player out and that's that. But if he calls him safe, then the manager gets involved and complains to the umpire crew chief. But the point is the guy has been tagged out while off the base he earned.
@andydickey He was not the u.pires TOLD him to go back which is wrong they should not do that call him OUT or let the team appeal by throwing to second or tagging him out.
Legend has it the announcer is still on a quest to find out what happened.
And even after they started playing again the announcer didn't notice that the player that was on 3rd was now on 2nd? HAHAHAHAHA!!!
LOL
This is too funny. I don't know for whom it is more embarrassing, the umps or the announcers. I think this crew is gonna have its collective ass handed to them by the ump chief.
The play-by-play announcer should be fired immediately
Real observant there...
Only correct person was the graphic department
Well said my British friend.!
Wouldn't they have to challenge before next pitch? They didn't, too late.
Was there no one in the booth with a score card
The announcer had no clue but graphics person in the TV truck has it right. Runners at first and second
I'm only watching it to the end to see if the announcer figures it out.
He wasn't paying attention when the runner stayed at 3b in the pitching changer, and he wasn't paying attention when the runner went back to 2b after the timeout and argument.
I think his confusion is that he thinks whatever happened was on the at bat after the runner casually strolled to 3rd base, so he wasn’t analyzing the play before the pitching change.
I mean, to be fair, the graphics person didn't have to actually do anything.
Shocked this hasn’t been on jomboy yet lol
Jomboy sucks. He does not know the rules of baseball.
@HomerErectus what a silly comment he knows more about all sports than u ever dreamed of jealousy is a very bad sin for a reason
@@brianhixson5357 He actually doesn’t. Many times on his videos he has stated incorrect rules. He is a poser, albeit a successful grifting poser. I’ll give him that.
you don't watch jomboy to find out the rules
Jomboy is a lip-reader, not a rules expert.
It's too bad they didn't tag second after the fly. Then they could argue he was out...
That's what I was thinking.
It's worth a shot.
That would not have worked though because there is no rule that R2 had to go back and touch second after the ball was put in play. Once the umpire puts the ball in play, R2 was free to touch third an then attempt to score after touching third. The umpire would have to correct his own error of putting the ball in play with the runner out of position.
@@TheKevinhuston I dunno, it could be said he was taking a maximally big lead to third when the ball was hit, and never tagged up.
@TheKevinhuston why not? If it's a hit and run and runner gets a huge lead, but the batter pops out up, the runner still needs to tag up or he's doubled off
That would’ve been the wrong call
I coached HS baseball in the 90's. During one of our summer league games the opposing coach came out of the dugout to make a pitching change, but before he could get two steps out of the dugout the pitcher tossed him the ball while he was looking at his lineup card and deciding who was going to be moved around after he changed pitchers. He was looking down and never saw the ball coming and never saw it as it bounced down the dugout steps and into the dugout. The umpire killed the ball, gave all of my runners two bases and we scored two runs. The other head coach was absolutely livid, not at his pitcher, but at the umpires. He insisted the there was a timeout as soon as he left the dugout. Nope, nowhere to be found in any rulebook. He then tried to argue that the umpires should have known he was going to call for a time out and granted it before the ask was made. Nope, that's not how umpires work. I became an umpire after leaving coaching and worked nearly 3,000 ball games over the next 20 years. We assume NOTHING. Then he insisted that he HAD called timeout while he was still in the dugout. He then just went berserk and started cussing the umpires out. Needless to say, he got ejected. Never in my life have I seen a manager or coach, at any level come closer to having his scalp burst open and his skull explode out of anger. This guy made Earl Weaver look like a novice. To this day, I still chuckle about it when I get reminded of it.
Seems the umpires open a can of worms. When a coach walks out from the dugout toward the pitcher's mound it only means one thing. Just like a catcher wanting to talk to his pitcher the umpire just grants time. Trouble is always there, don't look for it.
@@Johnleonard-w5zBut the catcher always asks for a timeout before going to the mound. I've seen umpires deny those timeouts.
@@Thirdbase9 Why does the umpire deny the timeout?
@@Johnleonard-w5z If I remember correctly, the catcher had repeatedly asked for timeout, this was the third or fourth during the batter's plate appearance, the manager or coach had made a mound trip too. It was an obvious stalling tactic to let a relief pitcher warm up.
Hilarious to blame the umpires when you didn't call timeout. They're not your mommy.
The announcer being oblivious of the base runners was incredibly comical.
It wasn't just one umpire monitoring the play on the field; it was a crew of umpires and none of them picked up on what happened. Either they are stupid and incompetent or just don't care about the game or their jobs.
@@critter2 Of course. But the umpires are paid to control the game and make sure everyone stays within the rules. It was a mess from top to bottom.
How many watching on TV shouted at the screen that the graphic says first and second.
It's a lot easier to say that when we know the answer ahead of time
Bro didn’t figure it out until he saw this video in TH-cam 😂
It is painful to listen to this clueless play-by-play guy. Does he not keep a scorebook?
That's what I was thinking. Most quality play by play people keep scorebooks or someone up there does.
Exactly.
This is why you keep score
EXACTLY
I did something like this in HS at least 5x. If I were on second and the batter walked, I would slowly walk to third w/o any throw.
Wait -- is this for real? The layers of incompetence! First, nobody on either team or the umpire crew or the broadcast booth notices the runner advancing on the pitching change. That's already absolute gold! Does anybody give a shit at this game? But somehow it gets even deeper -- even when the umpire fixes it, nobody on the broadcast team even points out that the ump is sending the runner back to second, and can't figure out what's happening... how is it possible for every single person at the game to be this clueless? Like, how does the broadcaster sit there, confused by the situation, trying his hardest to figure it out, and not even notice that the ump is sending the runner back to a different base? Unless maybe he remembered the runner had been on second, and when he saw him on third, he just assumed he'd forgotten seeing him tag up on the fly?
The score bug operator has 10x more of an idea of what's going on than the announcer. Never once did he change his set up to reflect the runner's illegal advancement, and even navigated the count and outs during the redo of the at bat as well as Zastryzny's pitch count resetting.
@torynhill8956 Reminds me of those times the home plate ump sends a runner to first on a walk when the score bug is reflecting the correcr count of 3-1
That’s why they’re doing minor league games.
He acknowledged that a runner was on third when he was discussing the possibility of a run scored on the balk, but didn't notice that the runner was now on second for the actual out.
@@markdaniel8740 Whats more interesting to me is that the manager got all pissy and gets tossed from the game when he is told what happened and what they are going to do. I am guessing that he felt that since the umpires didn't discover the runner in the wrong position until after the initial out that it was too late to fix it and that the base runner should get to stay.
Even more interesting is NO one on the defense even after figuring out the runner was on the wrong base decided to throw it back to 2nd which would have theoretically been a force out as soon as the umpire declared the ball ready for play on on the now 2x put out batter after his first out.
Crazy stuff!
So why didn't anyone, managers, umpires, or broadcasters, consult the official scorer?
Yeah! Like why even bother having an official scorer at all
The graphic was correct haha.
I’m going to assume some producer was going to fill the announcer in and then went, “nah this is funnier” hahaha
You think a producer is paying more attention to the baseball game than the announcers?
@@alexanderfpv6655 You would be surprised how many producers are probably in the background watching the game feeding info to the announcers. I used to listen to a morning show and the main host did play-by-play for NCAA and NFL games on the radio. He would go into the workings of how it worked and how if he missed something there was always a producer handing him notes about the last few plays to make sure he knew everything that happened. Sure football has way more action to pay attention to but I'm sure its similar. Although I could be completely wrong about baseball as he only did football.
@@alexanderfpv6655 We have proof based on the graphic in the bottom right corner that the producer was indeed paying more attention
Great catch by the third baseman
I played minor league ball in _San Diego in 80-81, we had a rule: _"When in doubt, Tag him out."_ We got burnt during our first season with the league, so after that, If we had a question about a player, the guy nearest to him got the ball and we tagged him out. That gave us a starting or ending point for the remaining conversation.
In this case, the base runner was out of position on third base. A tag out would have ended this conversation.
That is wrong. There is no rule requiring R2 to go back and touch second base after the ball is put in play. The umpire would have had to rule (before the next play) that he erred in putting the ball in play prematurely before the runners were in a good position, but R2 doesn't have to be on second or ever touch second again since he had already touched second before advancing to third. Once the play was over and the ball was caught in LF, the play should have stood and R2 should have been allowed to stay at third base.
@@TheKevinhuston
By allowing the runner to stay, you are saying that the defense should have appealed before the pitch. This play has nothing to do with an appeal.
The offense made a mistake by not being at the legal base. The umpire mistakenly puts the ball in play. Then, you want to penalize the defense for not pointing out a mistake by the offense and umpires??
@@MwD676Yes, they didn’t appeal before the next play. This is consistent with the damaged bat rule. If the batter uses a damaged or defective bat, the defense must object beforehand. In MLB play, there have been several times that a player has hit a grand slam with a damaged bat. The defense then seemed to have the batter declared out because they used defective equipment. Since they noticed the damaged bat during the at-bat and didn’t object, the grand slams stood. You lose your right to appeal if you play another play before appealing. If they had appealed before the pitch was thrown, he would have had to go back to second base. Because they didn’t object before the pitch was thrown, the runner was safe at third. The rule seldom has to be applied, it has been mostly used during batting because a batter had a broken bat that he didn’t realize was broken.
@@richardbeckenbaugh1805i don't think a successful appeal would have sent him back - because he cheated he should be out.
@@fifiwoof1969
We don’t know if he “cheated” or was confused. But it is the umpire’s obligation to only put the ball in play when everyone is at their legal spot.
I would say that since another play happened after the advance that it can't be overturned, just like in football.
This is the correct answer.
Wondered that myself
If the Sounds were paying attention as soon as the play resumed after the change the pitcher needed only to step off and toss to second.... in fact,had the outfielder tossed to second after he got the flyout that would have counted too. As soon as the play was dead the Sounds were screwed.
@@SetsunaTheAngel Except they clearly weren't, since this crew reversed the play and put the runner back at second.
Time out clearly called at 19 seconds in the video
This is the only thing anyone should be thinking before arguing - my very first thought was, "the only way this works for the runner is if time was never called."
If you’re so oblivious you don’t challenge until after a full AB, you lose the right to argue it
The most epic steal ever! And he got to bat twice.
A quick look at the graphic in the corner and the position of the runners on the field would have saved the announcer and production crew a lot of embarrassment.
He probably didn't have a monitor. But should have had a score card
How did the umpiring crew not notice the illegal advance from second to third during the pitching change? Even if they did not actually see the guy walking from first to third, it was their job to keep track of where the runners were. Before pitching change: Runners on second and first. After pitching change: Runners on third and first. HOW did the umpires think the lead runner advanced to third during the timeout? Same with the announcers.
NOT the umpires' responsibility to track the runners for the defense. The runner was simply leading off the bag at second when the ball was put in play. The fact he was standing at third is immaterial. As long as he touches third before the pitcher starts his motion, it's a steal like any other.
@@TomKaren94That is ridiculous. The runner on second base advanced to third base during the time the relief pitcher was warming up, which is a timeout period and NOT a live play time. That is clearly illegal.
@@TomKaren94 It is absolutely the umpire's job to track where the runners are when the ball is put into play. To say otherwise is absurd - how else would they know whether a runner tagged up or where they need to tag up?
@@TomKaren94that’s some priceless confidently incorrect statement there. Time out was called the runner can’t advance and it is the umpires job to make sure the field is ready before resumption of play.
Ah. The most feared play in all of sports…the do-over
Was the announcer calling this game from his living room?
I love how the production crew focused in on the runner at third, with the inset box showing runners at 1st and 2nd, all the while the announcer was completely clueless! Haha!!
The level of non-awareness is amazing. Looks like a cool minor league park, however.
Hey! Morgan Ensburg! We were on the same pony league (Blue)team in Hermosa in 8th grade. Cool dude and it was obvious back then what a "Natural" to the game he was indeed. I loved seeing him with the Astro's but hadn't kept tabs. Cheers!
Misner was obviously cheating and should have been called out and ejected. he knew EXACTLY what he was doing.
exactly. and even the 3rd base coach lol. someone in other comment chain just told me they wouldn't have known LOL
Called out for what exactly?
It is completely on the umpires to ensure that the runners are at their legal base prior to putting the ball in play.
If they thought the runner or coach was actually cheating intentionally, they would be ejected and face serious fines from the commissioner’s office.
But even if that [ejection] happened, the runner is not out. He would be replaced by a pinch runner.
@@RyanRobbins007 advancing during a dead play - I think (no expert here) he's required to tag up to the last base he legally obtained prior to the commencement of play (e.g., the next live pitch) and since he didn't, he should have been out. Or something. Either way, he was trying to cheat as the play was dead during a pitching change. Cheat or was just stupid, but I'd bet on cheating.
@@Chrsly
Again, it is on the umpires to require the runner to be at his legal base. It is not a tag up or appeal situation in any way.
Highly doubt he was intentionally cheating. Just lost track of where he was after a pitching change. Even so, the mistake is on the umpires. They need to require the runner to be in the correct place. And if he refuses, the player could be ejected.
But there still would not be an out. Just a substitute.
So it appears they totally negated the at bat where the batter flew out to left.
After the ejection, they move the runner back to 2nd. Then the same batter flies to 3B in foul ground.
It seems that the manager was upset with the decision to negate the fly out in order to fix the umpire’s error on not requiring the runner to be on his legal base.
Honestly, I can't blame him.
I would expect either the runner's advancement to be considered illegal and be is forced to return AND the batter is out, or them to say that since the pitch was thrown, they can't throw to 2nd to challenge the prior play so the runner stays at 3rd AND the batter is still out.
But in no circumstance would I expect them to allow the batter to hit again. Imagine if he hits a homerun there.and the outcome of the game is changed because the hitting team advanced illegally.
Double slap in the face because it was almost certainly the defending team that pointed out the error, and they arguably got punished for it. (I say arguably because I suppose some people might prefer a certain batter get a 2nd chance at bat than a runner advance, depending on the situation)
@@fuhkerz This is the correct comment.
@@fuhkerzi'm not an expert in MLB or MiLB rules, but this seems absurd, to let the batter bat again, after he was legally put out???
The umps are seemingly gifting the offense a free do over for no reason. Like you said, if anybody should be punished here it's the team on offense. Their runner illegally advanced. And ok, maybe cuz nobody noticed it before the next pitch the rule says he gets to stay at 3B.
But moving him back to 2B and then letting the batter have a do over is deeply bizarre. The umps literally gifted them a 4-out inning.
@@timwakefield It makes sense though. With a runner on 3rd, they were trying for a sacrifice fly with 1 out. With the runner on 2nd, they obviously wouldn't do that.
@@THErggee True, but the umps are still *rewarding* them. It's the offenses fault that their runner advanced illegally. Or maybe that's the duty if the umpires and, mainly, the defense. If they had appealed at 2B, after the runner illegally advanced and before throwing a pitch, the runner should be called out.
But they didn't notice.
But I still don't understand how having a do-over is fair. It literally gives the offense a 4 out inning -- again I'm not expert but I can't remember ever seeing a ruling like this.
EDIT: In my understanding, the (original) out should count, and the runner who snuck to 3B is now allowed to stay there because the defense had to appeal before throwing a pitch. 2 outs, runners on the corners, play continues as normal. Letting the batter hit again seems absurd.
But on the final out he was back at 2nd... why was the manager elected if they sent the runner back? How did the production not catch him walking back?
Guy is the ultimate sneaker.
Production did catch it.
Somewhere the announcer is Still confused!
Announcer: I don’t know what the umpires are discussing here. There’s runners at first and third and my graphic has yellow dots on first and second. Everything looks normal to me.
Was time out officially called for the pitching change ? If not, the runners can advance at their own risk.
I don't believe a substitution is possible without a timeout but certainly not a pitching substitution where a new pitcher comes in and throws warm up pitches.
@@gaspara9817 ...time out has to be requested by one of the teams before an umpire makes it official. there are instances where an umpire will call a time out for other reasons. if the team making the pitching change does not ask for a time out and the umpires have not called their own time out, the runner can advance. time outs are not automatic.
0:18, 3B Umpire calls time out
Sorry, HP
@@sitbone3 substitutions can only take place on a dead ball. It's impossible for there to be a situation where play is live during a pitching change.
Why are people, especially the umpires, struggling with this? This is not "cheating." The position of the runner is the exact same as if he were leading off the bag at second when the ball was put in play. The mistake by the defense was to put the ball in play with the runner standing at third. If he is on third base when the pitcher puts the ball in play, it's a steal... as long as he's there before the pitch. Otherwise, he's still on second and can be forced out after the fly out.
In this case, the only option I can think of is some kind of "patently unfair" phrasing in the rule book to support the umps reversing the play and moving the guy back to second. Otherwise, if I were behind the plate, I'd be telling the defense's manager that it's not the umpires' responsibility to track to offense for them, the play stands, next batter up.
In this case, it is the umpire's job to keep track of the runners. The umpire restarts play, not the pitcher, and is responsible for first ensuring the runners are at their legal bases.
I wonder what rules would be used to address this situation? I would have thought that the defense would have until the next pitch to tag him out, or tag second to make him out, but since they did not - the play should stand (fly out made and runner is now safely on third).
Does anyone know what rules (for this league/level of play) apply?
This is a Triple A game so MLB rules apply. My best guess is that the crew used 8.01(c).
It is umpire error. They should have required the runner to return to his legal base (2nd).
They did not do that prior to putting the ball in play. So they needed to fix the error.
That would be in 8.02c
The umpires have to correct the error before the next play. Once the play was over, it should have stood, which means two outs and runners at 1st and 3rd. At no time could the defense have fixed the problem themselves since R2 is not required to go back and touch second base since he had already touched it when the ball was live. The coach should have brought it up to the umpire before the pitch obviously.
It's interesting, the MLB rule book says a "runner cannot advance on a dead ball" unless the base is awarded because of something that happened when the ball "was alive". But there's nothing in the rulebook about what to do if the runner advances in contradiction to the dead ball rule. So I think in this case the umps got it right when they figured out what happened, everyone goes back to the positions they were supposed to be at when the ball became dead. Runner back to second and batter back at the plate...even resetting the count to 0-0 if they have to. What's really bizarre is if the guy hit into a weird double play, like a liner to third and then the 3B steps on third for the force. The team that illegally advanced could argue their player was on the wrong base at the start of the play and they would probably also get a do-over with the runners set to their correct places. Baseball is weird man. Feels like something like this should be an automatic out or a tag out situation, the runner put himself beyond the bag he was entitled to, so he should be at risk at the very least of a tag play.
I just find it funny that the announcers never once even noticed the runner "advancing" during the pitching change was what started the whole confusion. I'd be curious to know whether the runner was trying to pull a fast one, or just completely brain farted and just stayed on 3rd after talking with the base coach thinking that's where he was supposed to be. I do know one thing, I'm going to try to pull this off in beer league softball one of these days lol.
oh he knew exactly what he was doing lol. that's what he would say too though if questioned, oh sorry just had a brain fart haha
Does the radio announcer have access to the MiLB livestream for replays? Seems the only person who got it right the entire time was the guy running the graphics for the stream.
I cant imagine a catcher not noticing a magic runner on third.
@@carlstrickland7960 The only guy who knew something was off was the guy doing the graphics. Which I find funny, because you would think he would have seen the runner on third, thought he missed something, and "corrected" it. But he's the only person right.
My fav in slow pitch is to have your 3rd base coach run home on a shallow pop up
Draw the throw with the runner safety at third waiting for the outcome
Usually in slow pitch pitch the 3rd base coach is just a player not due up that inning
I guess my question is did the announcer notice during the rest of the inning that the runner was back at second??? He talked about him being at 3rd like it just made sense so I was surprised that it wasn't noticed when they replayed the at bat.
Was the announcer at the game? Was he doing this remotely?
Over fifty years of baseball and I've never seen that. I can only imagine how Earl Weaver would have argued that.
Thanks for the video.
Incredible that nobody on the field noticed
Where's Jomboy on this gem?
It's a disgrace that MLB allows coaches to scream in the faces of umpires.
You can’t really see what had happened but I am curious about the initial play. The 2B obviously flubbed the throw and had to make his own recovery. Was the base runner already taking his turn to third and never fully returned to second? So was he advancing the entire time and no time out called to stop the play? So since he had not returned he was still advancing to third and just continued to advance because play was not dead at that time? I love the minors but some times the lack of camera angles and replays (for broadcasts) don’t make the best for situations like this.
I live in Nashville and didn't know that any Sounds games were televised.
Every MiLB game is streamed online for a $40/year subscription.
I'm picturing the announcer drinking a bottle of whiskey like Bob Eucker in Major League. "Ah, who cares, nobody's listening anyway"
You can't advance in a timeout ! They called timeout to change pitchers !!
The announcer didn't seem to notice that the runner went from second to third THEN BACK TO SECOND!! As a baseball fan, this is just great though.
It's an interesting issue: who has the responsibility to ensure that the base runners return to where they are supposed to be during and after a time out? Any coaches out there?
This video would be more shareable if there was a version without the captain and description that gives it away. Can it be re-uploaded?
How is this a legal remedy? I thought all irregularities become legal if no objection is raised prior to the next pitch?
Someone who knows better please correct me if im wrong but it felt like the batting team cheated by stealing the base but then it ended up with them having an out given back to them. So they benefitted from it anyway
I kept waiting for the announcer to pick up on it but never did. He even mentioned the runner at 3rd base (who was supposed to be on 2nd). Even the graphic in the corner had it right but he didn't make the connection.
I'd like to say I'm immune from that kind of thing but I can easily see me doing the same thing if put in his shoes.
Since I am not an expert on the rules, I am probably wrong but.... I am under the impression the team in the field can only appeal the current or last play up until the next play starts (a pitch, etc.).
Right, but this is not an appeal play. The umpire isn't allowed to restart play with a runner out of position. That makes this a nullification of an umpire's mistake, rather than an appeal of a runner's mistake.
Completely weird seeing the graphic saying first and second with a man standing on third
Wait, how did #35 get to second base??
How does the announcer not notice they moved the runner back to 2nd from 3rd!?!?
Pitching team advanced the game. Nobody to blame but themselves.
I am not sure they got that correct? I would think After the second out the pitcher gets the ball steps on the mound , then steps off and throws to second and the base runner on third is out to end the inning .
It's not an appeal play situation because the illegal advance took place during a dead ball. That makes it the umpires' responsibility to keep track of the runner, not the defense's.
Rule 8.02(c). This play is not covered specifically, but the MLB rulebook gives the umpires full discretion to "make it right" when a problem in the game is discovered for which the rulebook offers no specific guidance. It is unclear if they can do so after a pitch has been thrown, but their decision seems reasonable. That said, I would also have ejected the baserunner for unsportsmanlike conduct but allowed a substitute to take his (correct) place at second base. There is no provision I can see for calling the runner out. From Rule 8.02(c): "...If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those runners would have been after the play...."
He was off the the base that he had legally been on when the ball was hit and did not return after the call ball was caught. I believe they could have tagged second or him and he should have been out.
@@mikeslater6246, technically, perhaps, but given that no umpire spotted the "error" (a/k/a unsportsmanlike act), that would be stretching it a bit. I suspect that's what the manager was arguing, but I think - and it's arguable, but it's what the umps chose - treating the fly ball as a non-play - and I think it's reasonable choice. I mean... everyone screwed up. So the umps are just trying to find a fair solution in a short amount of time.
@@StevenBLevy you make some valid points. But having coached Little League baseball our coaching staff's philosophy was make the play and make the Umpire make a ruling. It would have been interesting at least to see what they did.
@@StevenBLevy and for the life of me I can't believe that the second baseman, third baseman, or shortstop didn't point out that the runner on second base was not on second base.
@@mikeslater6246, oh, yeah. Absolutely.
Who, if anyone, in the park actually noticed it? Seems like the sounds players recognised something was up during the play, but even they couldn't figure out what.
Ok, WTF happened? Did the umps f up and then correct it?
If the runner hadn't actualy touched third base until after the ball was hit, would it have still been illegal? (non baseball fan here)
Announcers don't keep a score card anymore?
Is this the announcer's second ever ball game?
3:30
Dudes just gonna stand there knowing exactly what he did and waste everyone’s time
Waste everybody's time? Plays like this are what people remember about baseball and why people love it. The folks at the stadium will be telling this story years from now. This was even better than the shoe polish plays in the World Series.
@@stuartdavis798 cool.
The second the SS realized the runner was on the wrong base, he should have either 1) tagged the runner, or 2) thrown to 2nd and 2b touched the bag. Clear grounds for appeal that can't be muddied up by clueless umps.
If the umpires don't have a clue, then they won't rule an out on appeal. Fortunately, this isn't an appeal play situation, so the umpires can do whatever they want to nullify their mistake.
Who is not on second?
Hey baseball nerds! Legit question: Had the pitch not resulted in a flyout or a foul ball (requiring a trip back to 2nd) would that not have just legit counted as a steal if he didn't touch third after play resumed? Or does he have to be established on 2nd on the resumption of play for that to count as a legit steal?
The outcome of the play is irrelevant. Runners are not allowed to advance during a dead ball. Umpires should not have restarted play with a runner out of place. That's why they end up waving off the whole action after the pitching change.
I’m surprised there is not a rule in place to make the stolen base batter automatically out for not returning to his original base.
There is a rule. I don't think they properly applied it though.
It would have been up to the fielding team to throw the ball to 2nd and appeal for the out.
When the umpire raised both his hands, isn't that timeout on the field?
The Runner advanced when the ball was not in play. Upon the next pitch, the ball was in play. The catcher should’ve thrown it to third and tagged him out. The Runner should have returned to second before the ball was put in play
This is why someone in the booth keeps a score card.
The announcer was clueless that there was a runner on second somehow got to third and then was back at second . Not exactly Columbo.
The announcer doesn't even notice the runner goes back to second base.
Lionel here in Central California.
As a softball official and player, as well as a baseball player. There are very few rules differences other than mound and base path distances.
With that being said, the runner on third should have been called out for not being on the base at the call of time out.
Just saying….
They were lucky that there was even any change. Typically if you complete a play after an issue like this, they are supposed to let it stand because you didn't appeal in time.
Funny how a baseball announcer couldn't figure it out. It was so obvious, he even said runners on first and second, the graphic had it, and the runner went back to second. He couldn't for the life of him replay in his head what happened 4 minutes earlier.
Amazing, guy walks to 3rd, but NO ONE knows he's NOT suppose to be there. Instead of a do-over, runner should've been out directly after batter flew out to left. I think one of the fielders was looking at 2nd as if he wanted to throw it there.
after the manager was ejected, number 35 is back on 2nd base where he should have been...the umpires missed it, and the manager gets tossed for pointing it out before sending the runner back to 2nd and calling Stenson back to hit? and the announcers didn't see any of it? wtf...
The manager is not ejected for pointing it out. The manager is ejected for screaming at umpires and rejecting their ruling. Whether they are right or wrong, they do their best, and you have to respect them.
Brilliant.
Keeping up with the plays is not in the announcers job description......nor anyone on the field.
Why was the opposing manager so mad? That guy had to go back to 2nd and his player got another AB. Was it because the cheater didn't get called out?
How the Fawk is that not an error by F4?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I think it's funny how much people can be at the game but not aware of what is happening with the game within the game
The fact that the announcers missed the "runners on base" situation is not a good look for them. They're keeping score and should have noticed that the runner moved up on the pitching change.
The announcers are definitely minor league and not close to being ready for the Show.
So that’s the way they solved it? They nullified the out, put the runner at second, and gave the batter another AB. I’d be pissed if I was that manager too. No wonder he got thrown out. The baserunner broke the rules. Should have been able to just tag him up at second or something, and call it a double play. Don’t care for that call.
Second base didn’t notice the players was there..not there and then there again? Smh
Pitcher should get on the rubber to put the ball in play, then throw to second and appeal that the runner didn’t tag after the catch.
Was time ever called? If you come out and do a pitching change, and time is never officially called, it's live baseball. If the runner can walk to third unopposed, that's a stolen base. My guess is, time was never officially called or granted. When the umps realized that, they were embarrassed and retroactively called time and made the runner go back to second. My guess.
I think, if at any point before the first pitch after the illegal steal, they could throw back to second and the offending runner would be out. Once the pitch is thrown, the runner owns third.
The announcer has to be the dumbest person in the stadium not to notice this.
The whole time I was watching this I was thinking the same thing lol. But also had the luxury of seeing the video title before watching.
That's why he is a minor league announcer
Did he ever figure out what happened? He even watched a replay of the fly out with the runner on third and didn't notice that the runner was then back on second.
How the commentator not realize that he was on 3rd
This is what happens when your entire team falls asleep. The manager, all the coaches, the new pitcher and even the announcer are just not paying attention.
The correct way to handle this is to have the new pitcher touch the rubber, then step off and throw the ball to 2nd base. Make the appeal and then the runner is out.
As soon as the new pitcher threw one ball, that was the end of any appeal. The umpires cannot interject themselves into this situation once the next play starts. This manager should know that. He's just covering for his own ineptitude. The umpires also do not understand the rules and should read them at least one time, cover to cover.
THANK YOU for using the word 'ineptitude' and not 'ineptness.' The grammar used in our society today is as bad as the defense in this play.
@@TomKaren94 Most people think they are interchangeable. Ineptness is the more common derivation of the original ineptitude.
This is not an appeal play situation. By rule the umpire is not allowed to restart play with a runner off his last legally touched base. The umpire nullified his mistake and did not misapply any rules.
The umps are completely qualified to work for the US gov! Along with the announcers and probably 3/4 of the team in the field.
How the hell do the announcers not realize this? If you don’t recognize it in the first place, you literally had 1st and 3rd, acknowledged it, then acted like nothing happened when it went back to 1st and 2nd.
Can’t believe commentator didn’t pick up the controversy, get ur head in the game
that is amazing how no one, not even the players on the field realized that. how in the world, lol
They are making an appeal after the next legal pitch. Too late to correct this. However, the umpires should have never let this happen in the first place. Play should have never been restarted until runners were placed at the bases that they were supposed to be on. UMPIRES' FAULT. I believe that this correction at this point is completely against anything that is in the rule book. These umpires should never work another game at this level.
The clueless announcer never shuts up for a second. Also, why is that manager still arguing after the runner was sent back to 2nd?
So when play resumes, they should have tagged the runner at third and he's out. He only earned second, not third. I never heard of "do-over" in baseball.
But by the time of the do-over, the runner is back on second. When did he get sent back, and why did nobody still notice?
@@Bryan-yl7mg Yes, you are correct. Actually I meant as soon as the defense noticed and before making any pitches. The offensive player is at third. Throw the ball over and tag him. The third base umpire will either call him safe or out. If the umpire is doing his job, he will call the player out and that's that. But if he calls him safe, then the manager gets involved and complains to the umpire crew chief. But the point is the guy has been tagged out while off the base he earned.
It seems as though even the Sounds players didn't realize what has happened until after the flyout.
@andydickey He was not the u.pires TOLD him to go back which is wrong they should not do that call him OUT or let the team appeal by throwing to second or tagging him out.
Manager gets tossed but the baserunner still went back to 2nd