Commisioning a new refrigerant refrigerant recovery cylinder
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- This one covers putting into operation a new recovery cylinder. This video is part of the heating and cooling series of training videos made to accompany my websites: www.graycoolingman.com and www.grayfurnaceman.com to pass on what I have learned in many years of service and repair. If you have suggestions or comments they are welcome.
If you are a homeowner looking to repair your own appliance, understand that the voltages can be lethal, the fuels are highly flammable and high pressures are used. Know your limits.
I have watched many videos made by this man, some over and over, and mimic his style when instructing others learning the trade...It's the common sense approaches that he uses for helping one understand just what he is doing...It's the clarity, the pace, and not talking over someone's heads like many do trying to impress the viewers and/or students with what they, the instructor, already knows...Students don't need to be impressed, they need to be shown how to do it and it explained slowly and clearly, so they can understand it too, while at the same time learning, they can do this...This is the best instructor I have watched and as an instructor, still learn from...Thank you again GrayFurnance man.
You shouldn't say these things, my wife already says I have too big a head. lol Thank you.
GFM
You are a fantastic instructor. Thanks for all your time and effort.
Not to long ago I had 16 almost empty drums of r22. Recovered 19 lbs from them. It was like hitting the lottery. Of course the drum was new.
is it possible to use the recovered r12 from a refrigerator to a older car that uses r12 (1992 etc) ?
No
@@abdou6003 Yes, but you don't really have a great way of knowing the purity of the refrigerant, so be careful. If the donor refrigerator was running properly and the refrigerant circuit wasn't tampered with then you might be alright, but if it had a leak, the compressor failed, etc, there's a very high risk of the refrigerant being badly contaminated.
If you are asking about whether it's legal, my understanding of the law is that it's legal to return recovered refrigerant to the same system or another system owned by the same person, but that it has to be recycled and meet AHRI 700 purity standards before it can be sold or added to a system owned by someone else.
To be honest, a can of R12 can be bought for cheap enough that trying to recover R12 from a refrigerator to use in a car probably wouldn't be worth the time or risk or ruining the refrigerator for the maybe 4 ounces you might get, but that's just my opinion.
Brilliant
I've had problems with that particular brand of tank leaking out of the valves under pressure. Also had one that had a big leak on one of those bungholes. At least I got that one for free and was able to fix it with a new plug
i have learned so much from you. thank you for always showing the right way
Welcome
GFM
Thank you for your video. I am going to change out my sister's evaporator and put her a new line filter. I did not know anything about HVAC until I saw your video's. Very simple. I figured if these morons here knew how to do it, it could not be that hard. We are saving hundreds. Now I will care for my own A/C systems as well as the one's for my family.
You think it makes no difference but I'm pretty sure that in the liquid side there's a tube that goes all the way to the bottom so if you put vapor in that side it can cause the vapor to Bubble Up through the liquid at the bottom if you already have some in the recovery tank and cause it to heat up and build pressure
Excellent video sir! Thank-you!
Welcome
GFM
I was told that if you put vapor into the liquid port that the bottle would get hotter, and that it would be best to put liquid and vapor into the blue side
there is good reason red and blue are assigned; red = hot and caution vs blue in this case being low pressure aka liquid. my only understanding is the two were reversed in this demo. vapor is the superheated state of liquid which equals more pressure in a confined space. i have seen substantial accidents caused by mixing the two sides of the system up during servicing
Thanks . I am learning a lot from your help .
+quang nguyen Welcome
GFM
Great tutorial video GFM. Take care, Brett
We re-use and resell R22 and R410 whenever possible, if it's not a burn out its "clean" and it's just too expensive to waste.
Shame the video stopped just short of being commissioned with at least a shot of refrigerant
great video. thank you
8:02 - "Commissioning a new refrigerant refrigerant recovery cylinder" procedure jump to here. Thank you for the section 608 of the "Clean Air Act" requirements refresher at the beginning.
thanks for your help - greatly appreciated :)
Welcome
GFM
very detail, thank you so much you save my day
Welcome
GFM
+grayfurnaceman how about if I work at a used car dealership and fix ac for vehicles to be sold so I'm not reselling the refrigerant is that ok?
If you are moving refrigerant between vehicles that the dealership owns, it ok.
GFM
Nice video.
Some of the liquid tubes are plastic, I have had them get hot enough to fall off. I pump into the gas side
Exactly how I was taught. Thanks for the vid.
Some cylinders come with a vacuum.
You mean a vacuum cleaner. ???? (?)? ()? ()(?).
Humm that's interesting.
You have nice equipment.
It is a virgin r134a disposable tank but it is empty I thought I was ordering a full 134a tank. I also ordered a recovery tank from master cool. 134a tank is robin air offered online.
+Wayne Berryann Jr Your disposable cylinder has a leak. It should have been full.
GFM
great video
The only way to go.
Is that a national cyclinder lol, i used to work there for a few years
Great Video and ty , I am new to hvac . With this said , Is there any danger of over pulling a vacuum when commissioning a new recovery cylinder in this manner ? thanks
mercedes destefano No! The deeper the better
good job
Thank you for your video. You explained and made it very easy to understand. I am in the process of learning about ac system. One day my ac went out on my car and I took it to pepboys to get it recharge and found out my compressor was bad. Took it to Audi and they wanted $2100 to fix it. Lord no I aint paying that much so I decided to learn about ac and figuring out what all I needed to get this job done so I can change my compressor myself. I did a lot of research and youtube. hahaa and found your video was very helpful. I will be getting all my stuff order next week. What I needed to do is vacum the 1.3lbs of r134 from my car and save it. change my compressor and drier and recharge it again. any advice? What I need thank you.
ronny rath You can do it yourself. However, recovery of the refrigerant is probably not possible without spending a large amount for the machine. Dumping refrigerant to the atmosphere is a violation of federal law, but it is done all the time. A vacuum pump is necessary for this job. Once the parts are replaced, a thorough leak check is necessary. The best way to do this is with either nitrogen or CO2. Don't use compressed air. Good luck.
GFM
2:42
Red is always liquid, Blue is always vapor, does not matter what side of the recovery tank, Blue=Low side Red=High side
The color depends on the manufacturer. Some have blue for liquid.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman Industry standard for safety, Red always high side, Blue always low side, Does not matter what side of the tank it is on.
**** I'm wrong! I found a tank with a Blue valve labeled liquid. This makes no sense, but there it is. This SHOULD be industry standard for safety.
Apologies
@@relmdrifter I agree. But it is not.
GFM
I found your article very informative and watched it a number of times now..I have only started getting into ac recently although ive been a panelbeater for 20 years almost. I have the Australian version of the Trademaster T9100 as shown on you tube.im doing more degassing than regassing and the internal 8kg tank is almost full. Any suggestions on how to transfer the r134a refrigerant from the automated machine into a 20 kg recovery cylinder that I just purchased without removing the internal tank from the Trademaster. Any help would be much appreciated :)
Thanks a lot for the tutorial, very nice one.
Waiting for the recovery process video Sr.
Did you recommend Fieldpiece Gauges?
The fieldpiece gauge set is quite good. As with most Fieldpiece products.
Recovery is coming.
GFM
good explanation gfm
Thanks for the support
GFM
nice job
Thanks for the support.
GFM
Why did I see two different vacuum readings at the end of the video? I would expect to see minus 29.7 on both gauges.
There will always be some difference between gauges. The real world sometimes creeps in.
GFM
Someone gave me an empty recovery cylinder. Just to be sure, and to smell what was in it, I cracked open the blue valve. Nothing, so when I opened the red valve oil started oozing out. Im not sure what to do with it if anything. Thanks for your help.
The oil is from the dip tube in the cylinder. If the date on it it over 5 years old, it needs testing.
GFM
Hey gray hi... hey is that safety need to be closed when you get a new cylinder? i just bought a new one and with 6 pounds of refrigerant in it, it started trowing out the freon by that valve completely,,, i tied the valve all the way down with an allen wrench but it did it again.. it that mean the safety is bad in this thing? thank in advance for response...
Either the valve is defective or it is not designed for the refrigerant you are recovering.
GFM
oh,,, I was recovering R22 and the tank notes from the seller says 400psi approved, so probably a defective valve... so i dont suppose to touch that valve at all when the tank is new? so the valve is factory set?
I like it this video
At 5:10 When you say you take the cylinder to your refrigerant supplier and he will charge you for the refrigerant in the tank and you get the cylinder back, do you mean he charges you for the refrigerant, or do you mean he pays you for the refrigerant? How much would he charge or pay? Thank you, I am confused.
They charge for taking the refrigerant back. The amount varies with the market and whether the refrigerant is contaminated.
GFM
grayfurnaceman why do I see other videos where guys are saying these places will pay you for refrigerant?
If the refrigerant is not damaged or mixed with other refrigerant, you may or may not get payed for it. The video was done in 2014 and the taxes were lower then. Its all about supply and demand.
GFM
What kind of gauge set is that ?
Hi GFM, any advice on picking up a used / empty / open to the air recovery tank locally? I’ve seen a few advertised for next to nothing, but assume if it’s open to the air, the inside of the tank could be rusty. Best to avoid or will most supply houses swap the used and empty tanks out for a fee?
The reason the cylinder is cheap is it has passed its test date. It can no longer be used until it is pressure tested and testing costs almost as much as a new cylinder.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman Thank you as always GFM!
Do you have any suggestions for me on where to have my recovered r134a recycled? We do not have a recycle machine so we end up with a full "waste" cylinder every summer. Can't seem to find anyone to help me out with this one.
Generally, HVAC dealers can take the refrigerant.
GFM
How much does it cost to have the tank emptied by the refrigerant supplier?
It varies with the location and if the refrigerant is damaged. Much higher if it is damaged from overheat.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman thank you for your reply, and your videos are quite helpful. I was considering purchasing a consumer type recovery machine and tank and already have the gauges and vacuum, so your videos are making it easy to understand the process in advance.
This was very helpful! I purchased a White Industries R1234 machine that was missing the 134a recovery tank. i bought a Mastercool tank and wiring pigtail to install it. Now the 'excessive air' light is on, and i think i know why now.... A question i have is, does the float switch open at 80 %, or close at 80 %? Most diagrams i have seen indicate normally closed, and open @ 80 %.
It depends on the machine. They can be set up either way.
GFM
You get charged for the refrigerant in the recovery tank?
Yes.
GFM
The person below was mentioning working on a car ac unit. I have looked around and have never found anything telling how to make sure that you have the correct amount of oil in the system in a car ac unit. I was going to work on the orifice tube as I was told it was bad. Every time I ask about the oil I get different answers and non of them tell me how to make sure I have enough or too much. Do you work on these that you could give an explanation?
Thanks for the video.
amtpdb1 I do my best to ignore auto air whenever I can. It is an odd way to refrigerate because the compressor RPM changes so much. Oil in these systems is constantly circulating, so there is no way to know how much oil is in the system, so you cannot know how much to add. So, what would I do? Add a couple ounces and hope.
GFM
grayfurnaceman Thanks for the information.Great videos.Have a nice weekend.Don
amtpdb1 The easiest way is to use an refrigerant oil checker. gasfridgedepot.com/tools/pittstop-r134a-oil-checker/ Though I've am not sure is if they are legal. Also, If you haven't had a big leak it's unlikely you've lost enough oil to make a difference. The correct way is to recover the system and then use a dip stick on the compressor. Sometimes you have to make the dip stick yourself.
DataToTheZero Thanks for the information. Have a nice weekend.
There’s a date printed on my 134a 30 lbs cylinder. Do you know what the date represents?
Mine says: 01-08-2021
If its a one use cylinder, it is probably the date manufactured.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman It’s a new tank.
@@christopherowens2635 Sounds about right for a new cylinder.
GFM
Obeewhan: When the line set is evacuated of refrigerant and triple vacuumed, moisture be removed from the liquid line drier of an installed system?
If the system is being repaired, the drier should be replaced when ever the system is opened. Hope this helps.
GFM
Thank you. I am replacing a "burn out" condenser with a functioning - no issues used condenser. I tested the old oil of broken unit, and it was cloudy plus positive for acid. Ran the evacuated refrig. through a new Sporlan 052 burnout cleaner in the recovery machines liquid discharge going into the recovery cylinder. I was thinking of replacing the OEM filter with oversized Sporlan common filter and adding another Sporlan 160 series burnout cleaner in the liquid line outside of unit between evaporator. run for a couple days and then remove it. do I have it right?
I don't see a problem with what you are doing.
GFM
Can I just use a vacuum pump when recovering or do I have to use a recovery machine first?
Disisions The cylinders are charged with nitrogen, so recovery is not necessary.
GFM
Hello I just goofed. I ordered a r134a tank was not thinking and realized it is empty. How can I get it filled? Can I get it filled? Thanks
+Wayne Berryann Jr Maybe a little confused here. Did you buy a recovery cylinder or a disposable R-134A cylinder?
GFM
How long did it take? And why are they so hard to pump down?
They can take several hours. Its the volume of the cylinder.
GFM
do you get one tank for each type of refrigerant you recover? or do you mix them and recycle them
You need one for each refrigerant you use. If you mix it, there is an extra charge for accepting it because it cannot be recycled and has to be destroyed.
GFM
So if i transfer a half full recovery tank that had say R22 into another, can I vacuum down this now empty recovery tank to 500 micron and recover a different refrigerant say R410a ?? Or is this the same as mixing it?? Thank you
good video is it possible to use the recovered r12 from a refrigerator to a older car that uses r12 (1992 etc) ?
You could but the refer probably only has 1/2# of refrigerant and the car could have as much as 3# at a full charge. Add to that the necessary bleeding, you will probably get about 5 oz of usable refrigerant.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman thank you i was thinking it was needing a few recovery
from different fridges but what does the # mean when you said 3# or 1/2# I live in a country where freon resources are very scrace (Canada) and to import from USA shipping costs too much . but i Live in Calgary and lots of people get rid of perffectly good fridges because they do not like the color or will need to "upgrade" to a wifi one .
@@abdou6003 The# means US pounds.
GFM
I have a tank similar to this. I don't know what it is and I need to get rid of it. It's heavy.
If it is over 5 years since it has been tested, it is not legal anyway.
GFM
grayfurnaceman Where do I take it to get rid of? I'm in Middle TN. Thanks
You may be able to take it to an HVAC distributor.
GFM
grayfurnaceman expires May 2019 and has 1 lb of freon. Anyone want it?
After you receive your recovery tank back from your recycler/reclaimer is there a best practice for how to store the tank, such as charging it with some specified amount of nitrogen until its next use?
I like the tank to have refrigerant in it at all times. If the tank comes back with a vacuum or nitrogen, I will pull a vacuum on the tank. If I am going to use it right away, I will use the vacuum to pull refrigerant into it. If it is for use later, I will charge the tank after the evacuate with enough refrigerant to get the pressure above atmospheric pressure. Hope this helps.
GFM
grayfurnaceman
grayfurnaceman Thank you!
grayfurnaceman, you mean charge the recovery tank with refrigerant from these 30lb refrigerant in a disposable tank (talking about r134a) .
grayfurnaceman, i have a question about this which went somewhere
Can i use recovery tank for 134a after i use it for r22 or one recovery tank for every freon ....
You can use it for multiple refrigerants but it must be evacuated prior changing refrigerant. The only limitation here is R-410A. The cylinder must be rated for 410A to put that refrigerant in the cylinder.
GFM
what is the process to return the recovery gas to the equipment?
by liquid or gas?
+FERNANDO CISNEROS You can do it either way. Liquid to the high side to an evacuated system or gas to the low side with the compressor operating. Hope this helps.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman and you have to run it through a recycle machine---NOT RECOVERY MACHINE---to separate the oil and moisture.. Recovery units do not do that.
@@mtsaz100 That's not necessarily true. If you are making a repair to a system that is clean and tight. There is no problem returning the gas to the system. If there was a substantial amount of oil in the refrigerant I would want it to go back into the system.
How do you like the Fieldpiece gauges?
As with most Fieldpiece products, it does its job well and is fairly tough. There are lots of features including target superheat. Not to say they cannot be broken. I also like the Testo gauge sets.
GFM
grayfurnaceman Ive been using the Testos I bought the Sman3 late last year. Havent had a chance to use them yet. Still doing no heat calls here
Love the SMAN4 but I don't trust the vacuum gauge. I use several vacuum (micron) meters when pulling vacuum connected directly to my core removers. I personally use a CPS and a yellow jacket micron gauge without using a manifold at all while pulling vacuum. Reason being that every valve and connection is another potential leak. The SMAN vacuum gauge will not perform a pump down test, not even when capped off. At least mine always rises higher than 1000 microns in 10 minutes, even if I clean the sensor with alcohol and pull an initial vacuum below 200 microns. The only other complaint is that the firmware is difficult to update because the software Fieldpiece uses looks like it was written in 1983. Testo is great also, maybe not as robust as the fieldpiece. My testo has a cracked display and I'm very gentle with my meters. Otherwise both are great manifolds. You can't go wrong with either one.
tstatech One suggestion I would make. Do not use your core removers for vacuum. It is just more opportunities for vacuum leaks. I did several videos on vacuum and am quite disappointed in the newer hoses. They seem to leak vacuum easily. Thanks for the thoughts.
It's nice you have digital gauges that have micron reading; but I don't. Could you show alternate hookup for vacuum gauge inline or on vacuum pump for reading vacuum being created by pump in recovery tank? Not all if us can afford spiffy digital gauges. Thanks
Willy
wileysnkskns
William Hill I was looking back on my videos and did not see on micron gauges. I will be doing one soon.
GFM
I was interested in, "while using manual old style gauges," where to hookup vacuum gauge when using vacuum pump to evacuate new freon recovery tank. Placing it at fitting on vacuum pump? Thanks
Willy
wileysnkskns
That's BS you can repair your own AC and everything else and flush it.you can borrow all tools at auto parts store. and recovery of the refrigerant is only 20 dollars . rest you can do yourself.
I get agood tarining me too much get knowledge .you did who recvory gas use in refrigerator ple show machine
Yeah....lets pay to give them the refrigerant you recovered back and get an empty cylinder in return then go back and pay for the refrigerant they got from you for free....something stinks here.
Nothing stinking here except your understanding of the concept here.
Once refrigerant has been installed in a system, it gets mixed with oil for sure, possible contaminants such as air, gasses from compressor burnout or metal shavings. Would you want someone to install this garbage into your system?
As for me, I want to be able to assure my customer that the product I install into their system comes up to the specifications of a new product.
Even if I was to remove refrigerant into my own cylinder and filter it, my cylinder has had many customers' refrigerant and oil, etc inside it. I don't know for sure how clean and pure it is. So yes, I will always get a cylinder of ASHRAE approved refrigerant.
GFM
Understood. Thank you. My complaint is more focused on the fact that refrigerant as we all know can be sold at absurd prices and we basically give them the oroduct. All that is done afterwatd is the purifying and then it gets sold back to the public. Not to mention that they even charge you to take the product in to their facility.
A few more facts: The cost to reclaim of refrigerant is not that high. What you are paying for is the federal tax. This tax is placed on refrigerants that are being replaced due to environmental issues. It is used to influence the buyer to use the newer, less environmentally damaging refrigerants. This tax increases each year and the amount of new refrigerant manufactured is lowered. You can argue with the reasons for the law, but that is the law.
GFM
Sorry, but what you have to say is interesting. But the way you say it is so boring. change the tones in your voice or speak slightly faster. Please
I bought Mastercool 69500 RecoveryMate Oil and a Mastercool 64010 30 lb blue r134a Recovery Tank without float switch.
I have a problem connecting the r134a hoses to the tank since they have different male fittings, both red and blue fittings.
Please see this video as i tried to connect.
th-cam.com/video/NlNmmHZzE1Q/w-d-xo.html
Is there any connector / adapter needed?
Lot of useless information in this video. Go to 8:27 if you just want to see the commissioning information.
why make a video to hear you talk! need to be able to talk while showing instead of blah blah blah! like Charlie Brown teacher! I just had to say this cause sometimes Spooby dooobie dooo!