in your experience do DA's wear a mask in public? Like where they try and be what they think is a good, kind, caring giving etc person and will willingly give hugs to members of the opposite sex, and then are totally distant from their partner and will not hug them.
There is a reason it is difficult for avoidants to fall in love. It's not possible to really fall in love while we're too busy protecting ourselves. Like turns into love through vulnerability - we start to deeply love people when we feel seen and heard by them - we feel able to show and be open about our true selves (at our best and worst). For avoidants this can involve admitting to our shame-filled avoidant desires, needs and pasts, and in doing so discovering they do not need to be a source for shame after all. Until we're willing to be vulnerable like this, we cannot truly love. When we instead become protective we ultimately become resentful because we don't feel seen, while simultaneously resenting attempts to see us we don't feel ready for, and partnerships become stale. Until we can rid ourselves of the shackles of shame to feel safe truly opening ourselves to another, the closest many avoidants get to feeling love is feelings of yearning or limerence that come from distance (emotional or physical) in a relationship - distance that often actually works against the long-term stability of that relationship.
It's a choice everybody has to make and a risk that is big for everybody, avoidant or not. Y'all are the ones just fucking it up for everyone else. It's called. Get. Over. It. Or. Stay. Alone.
@@Alixir1228 Bottom line is they are all about them. They're utterly selfish and self-obsessed. FA or DA - it's all about their way or the highway, and if you don't like it, tough titty. There's only one way to deal with them and that's walk away and let them screw up someone elses life, not yours
The love bombing in the beginning builds the ideas of their future hopes and dreams, only for them to disappear. As a pure hearted person, I can’t help but feel like I’ve been played!
When the person is all over you and connects with you on a deeper level than anybody else before them, then withdraws and claims they have no idea what intimacy is, you can't help but wonder.
@@MarkLeach-jb6bnsame here; i feel becoming avoidant myself after 70+ discards, 7year ultra-tumultuous experience. Two weeks ago asking for massage, food, love - only hours later the latest discard.
MIKE! I literally stopped cold in my tracks puttering around cleaning to login to my iPad and let you know how deeply I appreciate your radical honesty here. Some of the things you said are things I’ve suspected, but have only glimpsed real evidence of in sideways comments, in the slippery liminal space between a DA’s hope and fear. It helps confirm my sense of the needs behind the “ask” so I can figure out how to address it. I sympathize with how vulnerable it must feel for you and I want you to know that there are a lot of us non-DA’s out here who appreciate you **without judgement**. If it weren’t for your honesty we’d still be staring at a black hole that contains multitudes but tears every relation asunder *almost* by definition. Though I do believe in superluminal signals. ;) ALSO, I hadn’t finished watching the video and it was still playing when I was writing this comment. A former DA saying “Romeo and Juliet” in reference to Disney’s penchant for cloying fairytales that proscribe happy endings is SO much evidence for the subconscious mind, I can’t even. I’m dead of laughter. I will always refer to Romeo and Juliet as a DA Disney movie from now on. 😂
If you think about the fact that Romeo and Juliet is definitely based on Romeo's limerence, especially since he was really into someone else right before Juliet and they barely knew each other....... Then he is willing to like kill himself over it..... Definitely unhinged and no one actually would want a relationship like that so it's not a very good example.
This reminded me of how even the small normal things of a relationship is double the work with avoidants. What a miserable way of life and I know from experience. Just avoid them like the plague
Kind of unfair that so much work needs to go into how to be with an avoidant after they’ve given you the impression they weren’t avoidant. I don’t know why regular communication about needs doesn’t work. And then it’s on everyone else to tiptoe around them or accept false promises. I think it’s really important to know someone’s attachment style from the get go so we can avoid avoidants, and let avoidants be with each other.
I think avoidants are pretty obvious who they are from the get go. Just like I can spot an anxious man, I can spot an avoidant too. I agree. It would be nice for anxious people to only date each other too, but unfortunately opposites attract.
@@Warrior_Princess_1111if you listen to the video, the actual DA man in this video explicitly says that they prefer people who are givers. Just in case you missed it, DAs are the opposite of that, which they also say (stingy don't want to talk about emotions. Don't want to help you solve your problems. Don't want to listen to you. Don't want to make compromises etc etc.) If you have such vastly different views of how DAs show up then why are you even listening to this?
I agree. They absolutely don't reveal that they are DA right away. as so many of her videos share that they can act pretty charming at first. But then as things get closer that's when their DA stuff really comes out, which Thais mentions a LOT in her videos and I have definitely experienced.
My DA husband's most common responses to my feelings- "that is *not* what I meant, you're the one taking it that way", or " " (aka complete silence). I've learned to tell him up front before I start talking to him what my needs are- I don't want a solution, I want your feedback on this, I just want to feel heard on this, (most recently) I *do not* need any form of criticism or critique about this, that would actually make this even worse for me. I just need you to listen. (I should have also said I will need a hug bc that somehow never occurs to him, even while I'm crying my eyes out?!) 😭😫
@@SK-no2pp I do think he is a great husband believe it or not. I have seen the needle move as Thais says and I can't imagine doing life with anyone else beside me. We've both been through a lot, both before and together. 23 years together so far. If he wasn't invested in improving, I'd say no amount of time with someone requires me or anyone else to continue poor treatment. But it's moving, and he wants to improve, so that helps a lot.
@@sillymamacita3854 like Thais, I have a soft spot for DA's as well. ❤ I think it's great that you are addressing your needs ahead of time because often people think their partner should be mind readers and just know how to emotionally be there for them in every area and that's really not fair. I'd say between you speaking up and you seeing progress on his end combined with you saying he's a great husband are all good things! I noticed when I date a DA they will compromise and move the needle but at their pace and as with anything in life, slow progress is still progress. I notice DA's might not always jump in at the seemingly insignificant stuff, but when I'm going through a crisis (like recently when my mom passed away) they can be pretty amazing in these times. My DA wrote me paragraph after paragraph of the most supportive and heartfelt words through my time of need. I think it's more of the little nitpicking stuff they aren't super interested in participating in. Lol
@@SK-no2ppit sounds like she is working with who he is so beautifully. You’re an amazing wife. So happy to hear this tip for my avoidant ex and the couples I work with.. we all get to work with who we are working with
Mike , you did such a good job! Thank you for being vulnerable & sharing. It’s things that other attachment styles need to hear & understand. Thank you for sharing your scrabble directions. I hope that the comments on here are gentle. And if they are not, try to remember that it’s likely coming from their own pain. And has nothing to do with you. Thais excellent as always. Thank you for doing these.
I'm sitting here, holding my breath and holding back a nervous smile while listening to the list of traits a perfect partner would have. Yeah... sounds like the perfect person. Hell, just last night I was telling my family that I think that the only way I could ever share a life with someone is if they wanted to buy a duplex with me, and build a door to connect the units, but can also be locked if either of us need alone time.
This sounds like such an exhausting dynamic! Having to tiptoe around the DA, just so you don't step on their fuse, having to be their therapist and cater to all their fears. How about the DA catering to some of the fears of their partner? Hell no! That would mean too much emotional involvement. I've been there, done that, tried to be their therapist, only to be dismissed by them. Well, at this point, the DAs are dismissed from my life. Thank you very much and good bye.
Thais - your curiosity and care and hope and love are among the best I’ve ever known. Thank you for teaching us these paths to learn love without fear, without expectations. For me that is as close to loving *as Christ loved* as I think we can ever get. What a gift to give us so freely! It makes me laugh with joy to feel what’s possible now, what’s imminent. I’m so hopeful. I understand how projection works, but still, I’ll say-I’m SO PROUD OF YOU. Just look what you’ve done!! I want to hug you, too! 🥹🤩🥰
Sounds like non-commital long term casual is the DA's favoured relationship setting. It's as self-centered (centered on the self) as it gets. Sometimes outright selfish too. You're expected to acquiesce to their rigid boundaries but you can't assert yours in the gentlest of ways without them shutting down. I'm sure there are autistic people out there who are easier to date/ be in a relationship with.
I'm actually not sure whether autism and dismissive avoidance kind of overlaps somewhat....Like the lack of social awareness and relationship norms makes me think that some people who might be considered da are actually autistic but it's hard to tell.
@rachelmel I absolutely agree. So many behaviours are the same. It's as if the trauma that caused the DA attachment style at a very young age affected the same neural pathways/ wiring of those in the autistic spectrum. I have often wondered if my partner is autistic. He is an extreme compartmentaliser.
This compelling video brings back terrible memories of my recent breakup after four years of dating. My dearest friend made the decision to go, and I was left with an inexhaustible hurt. I can't even begin to imagine my life without him, much as I keep trying to make amends. I'm frustrated. I want to write about how much I miss him here because I can't seem to get him out of my head.
It's hard to say goodbye to someone you love; I experienced this when my 12-year relationship ended. However, I couldn't just let him go; instead, I tried everything to win him back. Eventually, I turned to a spiritual counsellor for assistance, and he was able to help me win him back.
Thank you Thais for putting all the great work into this topic. WE should all be greatful for the work you're doing really. While i see it is possible for someone to have that patience and acknowledge you guys in the way you need it, isn't that the line between a relationship with a child or your kid and a relationship with an adult? I really think dealing with DA is perhaps one of the most difficult things to deal with in life. While yes it is important to understand all these dynamics from the DA perspective. Aren't we just making excuses for them to actually grow up in the good sense, I am not intending to call anyone a child here but let's be honest isn't that a need for someone to actually really work on becoming an emotional mature person or a fully developed adult person if you'd like? which is not an easy thing to do, of course I am not denying that it is a very difficult thing to accomplish because to start with, it is something that should had started with your parents having done it in the right way, so that already in itself states the magnitud of the complexity of the subject. What I would like to see more in the future even if that is after I'm gone for good is making parents a bit more responsable of things like these, sort in a way for people to think that having babies or creating a family means more that just pleasing the desired of some women or people encountering meaning of life just in becoming mother or father. And therefore just because they already ticked that box in their life then they can allow themselves to leave the boat sinking without really understanding that the deepest consequences of that is not the adults but the kids that will inherit some undesirable side effects. This is the reason I am grateful for content like this to be more popular. Thank you !!
I (Anxious) would address a need or desire. He (DA) would feel criticized and double down on not meeting my needs. But would use that as an opportunity to frame a need he had that he had never expressed before. Usually sexual. I’d express an openness to meet that need. As the need to earn your love person, I would perform his need, and quickly, to demonstrate how important he was and my willingness to compromise. Also I was hoping that would inspire him to meet the need that I was expressing. But he would receive and then retreat back into his solo space. Over time, it made me feel used. So bringing up the need again, he would voice that my repeating myself was nagging. He would then find another need that i could perform. The cycle never ended. He concludes with people who love each other are happy to give and put others first. But it was largely how much could I give and ask for nothing. Just be content that he was a decent person. How can you help someone want to do the work of meeting in the middle when they think their way is the “right” way?
The only thing that has worked for me is not making my need a request but more as a non-negotiable. Obviously if it was a need that was extremely important to me, not just some small need that I'm capable of meeting myself. You have to be confident and assertive and be willing to leave if it's that important to you. No relationship is worth losing yourself over. If he doesn't want to compromise make it known that that's not the kind of relationship you want to be in. My ex DA would compromise, but you can tell he wasn't used to it lol. For instance, when we saw each other on the weekend, Friday's was better for him but Saturdays were better for me. So I suggested we alternate Fri and Sat every weekend and he liked this. I find it's really about the approach.
It doesn’t sound to me like it’s very likely to change in any way if he hasn’t met you half way with any of what you’re asking despite you putting out more (for lack of a better and more tactful word). The fact that he’s dismissing what you’re saying you want and calling it nagging is also further sign of unhealthy behavior and possible DA-ness
I’m an FA and…eesh. Basically every single DA Expectation is an expectation I have of myself. Not so much other people but…yeah. I was literally conditioned that way by DA parents who shamed me for having really any emotions and wants and needs and opinions that didn’t parrot theirs. Now that I am needing a support system and have a few people insist on trying to be it for me? I feel almost allergic to accepting any sort of help, especially practical. There’s still this sense of terror with voicing a need (forget wants) with people I actually want to connect with that is incredibly difficult to “just do it scared anyway”. Everything feels like exposure work.
Listening helped me to see how it's normal to not get needs met by DA's and I can recognize how I've been like that in the past with my own inner judgments. I think I got some balanced advise about how to proceed with one of my friends who I see is a DA and now I get the picture to not expect much closeness from him anymore. I will still be friends but it's probably unrealistic that we can come back together again.
Thank you for this episode, very eye-opening and it was easy to watch the whole thing. As an FA, having been married to a DA in the past and find myself being pulled towards a DA again, I am wanting to understand my mistakes and past patterns as well as see if the situation can be suitable for me. I would like to understand him more, but at the same time realize I will have to adjust in many way in order to understand him. I’m realizing that this dynamic is not healthy for me and not a complementary fit so I really appreciate the information you’ve given here.
Useful. I would like a way of uncovering people who are more avoidant. I just want to know pretty quickly, and what I''ve found is that they can stay quite well hidden for quite a long time. I have a way of identifying if people are a bit grandiose, low on empathy and ego driven really quickly and it just helps me along with how to approach them and what to reveal and how close to get. I think I will use the ask them about their feelings. If they're avoidant they will disappear right, so if I'm asking before I'm too attached I can use that to guage whether the person is avoidant or not.
It’s really simple. Express something they did (behavior) that had an impact on you (on your feelings) and do it cleanly with responsibility. Then see how they respond to it. If they are willing to listen empathize and make adjustments, they’re emotionally mature & intelligent and available and open and receptive to healthy relating. And if they’re an avoidant or DA, they will take it personally, get defensive, shut down and run away. That kinda thing. If they do this, it’s not a 100% sign they’re a DA but it will give you an early insight in their maturity level.
Great list, Mike! I understand a lot of it as a healing-FA. I wish every DA could put it so plainly so we can see where we'll be great and where we need to make other arrangements or heal.
Relationships come in all shapes and sizes. Some want marriage and kids, some want to just flow with it, some want a poly relationship, some want to have a long-term monogamous relationship but live separately. We just have to find someone who shares similar views on relationships.
1:00:00 I am more FA than DA but I can see that in myself too. It is more comfortable to write a message rather than talk about really vulnerable things or I prefer just to shift to another language which we both understand than our native. For me it is more because I like to reread it and delete what is not good but when we talk there is no erase button and other language feels a little disconnected from feelings and safer because of it.
Being with an avoidant is a total nightmare I dont ever want to repeat. They are manipulative, showing up as their BEST selves early on, reeling someone in, telling them everything they want to hear only to drop them from up high and disappear with zero emotions and consequences because they said all along they were “avoidant” horrible
If you’re giving for the sake of giving just to make yourself feel better then you should NEVER expect anything in return. If you’re giving because your girlfriend/boyfriend is asking for something then it is 100% in the right to expect something in return. For me I just want appreciation and respect which doesn’t cost time or money. Instead I was given the silent treatment, poor communication, and told “your problems aren’t nearly as big as my problems so relax”. I was told I was annoying when I brought up my issues and told not to suppress my feelings but it was 100% okay for her to talk about her issues with me and suppress her feelings if it meant cancelling fun in the sun but she always brought the issue back up 2/3 days later once all was paid for and no more fun was to be had. Not to mention are both Christians so I had scripture thrown in my face on how biblical men are supposed to be but never once did she understand what a biblical woman is supposed to be. It didn’t end well. No one was physically injured but I know that I was emotionally abused after months apart. I pray for her but I can’t do anything else at this point.
@@billbills7158 I'm experiencing this exact dynamic minus the religious parts. But any attempts to communicate or have reciprocity is met with me being annoying and my problems are nothing compared to his...even says I need to focus on making money...I'm like well didn't you attend my graduation from my masters program? I went to college and grad school while working full time and I work full time now with another part time job while getting you a job...your first good paying job with benefits...how am I not focused on money meanwhile he doesn't have any education (due to childhood neglect) and I've never judged him. Nobody is ever as good as them. They have a high sense of self and low value of others and what you've done for them when they needed your help. Once they get the help they are back to being mean and dismissive.
20:09 Surely it is completely rational for a person who has saved up some money to be a bit wary of a partner with debt! I do not see how that would be dismissive avoidant, isn't that just being smart!
I definitely agree, but I don't think they're talking about just being wary. I think they're talking about completely like judging a person and shutting down a relationship over it.
We do show our love but when we don't get it in return that's why we stop caring or fall back because we don't want to get hurt and or sometimes we just like being by ourselves because nobody theses days don't know how to be in a relationship and when we ask someone we like out and they come up with the same stuff all the time I got a man or I'm talking to someone we don't like playing games so that why we stay to ourselves
Question for avoidants When talking about “pacing of a relationship” How long do you expect to be “friends” and testing the water before becoming exclusive or atleast not wanting to date multiple people?
Only speaking for myself here, but if I'm not committing after maybe 3 months then I'm not going to at all. I also won't string anyone along. If that's what they want and I don't I'll end it. Being monogamous is not an issue for me, but if you're looking for a definitive answer about long term and I can't decide after a few months then you ain't it for me.
I’m just finding out that maybe I’m avoidant after years of abuse. Trying to find ways to heal and not carry this to others. The guy I dated seemed more anxious and it was off putting in beggining then when I started to take down my wall he broke my heart. I knew from the Beginning and told him and said no you will break my heart. Anyway here I go again trying to analysis and boy did I make some horrible missatkes with questions I asked him! I also tried to diagnosis him and said something Bay offended him and my brain. Was just scanning possible is not meant to offend. I’m not a judgemental person and anything I joked about something he became very upset. Comedy and playing with words or joking around is how I roll. Life is too hard to be serious and MEVEr ever would I harm a person on purpose and not even my ex husband that harmed me beyond words. Now if someone put my life at risk then they gonna be … 😂
Is so funny for me to realize sometimes how difficult our cultures are "when your boss is yelling at you" LOL can't not imagen this EVER happy in Belgium, it is literally so far away from my own reality. I am so sorry guys if you ever had to experience that :(
My DA showed some selfreflection for two weeks in August. None before, none since in over 7 years of on-off-relationship. She sounded so real then - just perfect. What made that possible and what ended it the following week? Any ideas?
@LeeChrissy actually you attacking me about the behaviours of Avoidants is imature and condescending. Look at any coach on attachment theory they will say Avoidants show the following- Stonewalling, lack of communication Discard, leave, abandon Blame, project, gaslight Monkey branch, cheat Self interest, lack compassion, empathy... This to name a few of Avoidant traits. Pull your head out n maybe you6⁶
@LeeChrissy Well, if you don't think DAs don't let their fears trigger them and react in a way that rules their life, then please explain. Stonewalling, abusive behaviours, emotional and physical withdrawal. Distancing, discarding, shutting down, lacking sincerity and feelings. Lacking empathy, inability to self reflect. and we can say more, but let's round this out with monkey branching and cheating. These behaviours are common in children who, by nature, are egotistical. Many children grow up to regulate themselves. Avoidants, unfortunately , often don't regulate but do a lot of self soothing. If you're familiar wth Avoidance, you'll be aware of these behaviours that are termed maladjusted.
in your experience do DA's wear a mask in public? Like where they try and be what they think is a good, kind, caring giving etc person and will willingly give hugs to members of the opposite sex, and then are totally distant from their partner and will not hug them.
As a recovered AP I am not a fan of the assumption that we don't like having intellectual conversations, I prefer to have them much more than my DA partner does! 😜
Can I please ask, while that list is super informative and eye opening, what happens when a DA has all those things from a relationship? If they have someone who is putting in the work for not only the partnership, but for themselves as a partner of a DA? I showed up in my most recent relationship with openness, a growth mindset and empathy to my ex's needs. He had pretty much that whole list of things that a DA wants out of a relationship. It was only when I voiced a boundary of mine, that unfortunately needed to be put in place because of his actions, that he ran (14months into the relationship). I understand it's because he felt attacked. But why have everything you ever want in a partnership to just run like that? Do DA's have a hard time respecting other people's boundaries in that respect? It was like, when some effort on his part needed to be shown, he'd rather just leave abruptly 😢
Unfortunately just like any other attachment style, everyone is different. What might work for one person will not work for another. Thais gives a great baseline of tips that can help for many, but seeing as there are different personalities, morals, needs and willingness to compromise behind every DA, it's hard to pinpoint exactly what could be done differently. What I noticed I was doing in the past was meeting a few of my exes "needs" based on what "I" would want. I would do a bunch of things but they never once told me they wanted or needed any of it. So we can be running around thinking we're the perfect girlfriend, but unknowingly not meeting what he actually needs and unfortunately because they usually don't express it or sometimes even know what their needs are, you can't really troubleshoot this without directly asking the individual.
@LeeChrissy I know it's very individual. I guess I'm trying to make sense of something I cannot relate to. Putting my all into trying to make a relationship work as a healed AP and having it essentially thrown back at me, has really sucked.
I'm so sorry you had this happen. It can destroy you to be discarded so quickly after giving so much. It's not you. DAs are often emotionally paralyzed. They repeat the same pattern with everyone, and that is where they want to be seen and understood and have all their needs met while you, 1. take care of your own needs or 2. don't have any needs at all. How can that be your fault? I hope you can find perspective and free yourself of this anguish. You were dealing with a child and now there's room to find a grown up.
Don’t talk to me too often/expect daily communication. Don’t admit you have feelings for me. Don’t look me in the eyes during intimacy . If you can meet these criteria, then please let me know and I will consider you to be my boyfriend. 🥰
Re: not putting the need fully on the other. How does this work with touch intimacy? I can’t figure that out… hugging myself isn’t cutting it. Hugging my kids is great but I need more hugs from my husband. We are working on this, but I’m just not sure how to meet that need myself.
Sounds like your husband’s love language of physical touch is towards the bottom for him. I get it. I’m only 10% physical touch. I’ve chose to only be with a man who aligns with me in all 5 love languages. He should at least want to Try with you.
How can these people progress without someone to show them what a healthy relationship is like? Therapists can tell them, but experiential learning is really the only way.
@@sanguinemoon9201 true. But in order to Change You gotta Want to. The problem with DAs is they are Not Interested, Hurt a lot of People in the process, and think Everyone Else is the problem. They only change when Their Pain becomes unbearable. By that time, they've usually left a trail of broken hearts 💔 and have done Nothing to make up for it! If you're willing to get yours broken while attempting to show them the way, that's up to you.
What I dont really get: What do people actually get being with an avoidant person? These relationships sound so unsatisfying. I have an avoidant friend and her behavior, instead of making me want to cling to her and overcome her distance, just makes me want to take a step back. I just feel like: Uff I am really only getting so little out of it, I think this is just not the frienship it seemed in the beginning. Yes, dissapointing - but my impulse is to create more distance, not to overcome the distance she creates already. I mean: That woman is just so unable to be vulnerable or show emotional support. And she is sooooooooo unreliable. So what do I get out of this? not very much. Yes she is very giving when it comes to gifts and acts of service. But dont you dare want emotional intimacy. I feel sad for her, because I can only guess how lonely her self-contained ,self-sufficient, closed off way of being is. But for me as a friend, it really is rather boring (and hurtful at times, but mostly just boring and superficial).
why not buy flowers n gauge their reaction. does he do nothing romantic n sporadic unless explicitly told otherwise just showing up. where is the leading and caring to ask what she likes
Absolutely as a healing anxious going towards secure now that im with my DA...i absolutey assume that like majority of the relationship is like 70% emotional romantic connections and deep conversations...and like 30% physical things/gifts/acts of service lol. Also yes im noticing language matters...absolutely never mention him having feelings about anything...that always triggers him so i even notice when i say "what did you think about that?" I'd get an answer. I vaguely remember him yelling ince saying "i have no feelings!" I really wish i could go back in time and be friends with him while he was going through his emotional neglect❤
@@SK-no2pp not so much about what I'd get but idk I wish I could have been a friend he could feel safe with emotionally as a child. That's all really, maybe an emotionally available friend would have helped him feel much safer? That's my thinking but it is an assumption also.
@@rarab22 no I don’t think so. That’s not how avoidant attachment works. You can model secure behavior for them, but they still have to do the work. And most of the time secure behavior triggers them.
@@rarab22 I love your heart. I have a few DA's in my life that are absolutely amazing humans. I was actually talking to one yesterday who I reached out for help and was literally right there no questions asked. By the end of our visit, she was sharing a closure conversation she was having with an ex. They do learn and grow, especially around those who are calm natured and who have an accepting and loving mannerism.
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in your experience do DA's wear a mask in public? Like where they try and be what they think is a good, kind, caring giving etc person and will willingly give hugs to members of the opposite sex, and then are totally distant from their partner and will not hug them.
There is a reason it is difficult for avoidants to fall in love. It's not possible to really fall in love while we're too busy protecting ourselves. Like turns into love through vulnerability - we start to deeply love people when we feel seen and heard by them - we feel able to show and be open about our true selves (at our best and worst). For avoidants this can involve admitting to our shame-filled avoidant desires, needs and pasts, and in doing so discovering they do not need to be a source for shame after all. Until we're willing to be vulnerable like this, we cannot truly love. When we instead become protective we ultimately become resentful because we don't feel seen, while simultaneously resenting attempts to see us we don't feel ready for, and partnerships become stale. Until we can rid ourselves of the shackles of shame to feel safe truly opening ourselves to another, the closest many avoidants get to feeling love is feelings of yearning or limerence that come from distance (emotional or physical) in a relationship - distance that often actually works against the long-term stability of that relationship.
Good post
"while simultaneously resenting attempts to see us we don't feel ready for"... This part was deep. Thanks for sharing.
Then it's cruel to be in a relationship and manipulate someone into falling in love with you with no intention on reciprocating.
It's a choice everybody has to make and a risk that is big for everybody, avoidant or not. Y'all are the ones just fucking it up for everyone else. It's called. Get. Over. It. Or. Stay. Alone.
@@Alixir1228 Bottom line is they are all about them. They're utterly selfish and self-obsessed.
FA or DA - it's all about their way or the highway, and if you don't like it, tough titty. There's only one way to deal with them and that's walk away and let them screw up someone elses life, not yours
The love bombing in the beginning builds the ideas of their future hopes and dreams, only for them to disappear. As a pure hearted person, I can’t help but feel like I’ve been played!
When the person is all over you and connects with you on a deeper level than anybody else before them, then withdraws and claims they have no idea what intimacy is, you can't help but wonder.
@@vlst8715 sounds like FAs
Oh my God, the pain this causes is unreal. I've never felt as much emotional distress as I have from her. I'm left with trust issues now.
@@MarkLeach-jb6bn I can see that. I got in therapy so quick.
@@MarkLeach-jb6bnsame here; i feel becoming avoidant myself after 70+ discards, 7year ultra-tumultuous experience. Two weeks ago asking for massage, food, love - only hours later the latest discard.
MIKE! I literally stopped cold in my tracks puttering around cleaning to login to my iPad and let you know how deeply I appreciate your radical honesty here. Some of the things you said are things I’ve suspected, but have only glimpsed real evidence of in sideways comments, in the slippery liminal space between a DA’s hope and fear. It helps confirm my sense of the needs behind the “ask” so I can figure out how to address it. I sympathize with how vulnerable it must feel for you and I want you to know that there are a lot of us non-DA’s out here who appreciate you **without judgement**. If it weren’t for your honesty we’d still be staring at a black hole that contains multitudes but tears every relation asunder *almost* by definition. Though I do believe in superluminal signals. ;)
ALSO, I hadn’t finished watching the video and it was still playing when I was writing this comment. A former DA saying “Romeo and Juliet” in reference to Disney’s penchant for cloying fairytales that proscribe happy endings is SO much evidence for the subconscious mind, I can’t even. I’m dead of laughter. I will always refer to Romeo and Juliet as a DA Disney movie from now on. 😂
If you think about the fact that Romeo and Juliet is definitely based on Romeo's limerence, especially since he was really into someone else right before Juliet and they barely knew each other....... Then he is willing to like kill himself over it..... Definitely unhinged and no one actually would want a relationship like that so it's not a very good example.
This reminded me of how even the small normal things of a relationship is double the work with avoidants. What a miserable way of life and I know from experience. Just avoid them like the plague
Kind of unfair that so much work needs to go into how to be with an avoidant after they’ve given you the impression they weren’t avoidant. I don’t know why regular communication about needs doesn’t work. And then it’s on everyone else to tiptoe around them or accept false promises. I think it’s really important to know someone’s attachment style from the get go so we can avoid avoidants, and let avoidants be with each other.
I think avoidants are pretty obvious who they are from the get go. Just like I can spot an anxious man, I can spot an avoidant too. I agree. It would be nice for anxious people to only date each other too, but unfortunately opposites attract.
@@Warrior_Princess_1111if you listen to the video, the actual DA man in this video explicitly says that they prefer people who are givers. Just in case you missed it, DAs are the opposite of that, which they also say (stingy don't want to talk about emotions. Don't want to help you solve your problems. Don't want to listen to you. Don't want to make compromises etc etc.) If you have such vastly different views of how DAs show up then why are you even listening to this?
I agree. They absolutely don't reveal that they are DA right away. as so many of her videos share that they can act pretty charming at first. But then as things get closer that's when their DA stuff really comes out, which Thais mentions a LOT in her videos and I have definitely experienced.
My DA husband's most common responses to my feelings- "that is *not* what I meant, you're the one taking it that way", or " " (aka complete silence).
I've learned to tell him up front before I start talking to him what my needs are- I don't want a solution, I want your feedback on this, I just want to feel heard on this, (most recently) I *do not* need any form of criticism or critique about this, that would actually make this even worse for me. I just need you to listen. (I should have also said I will need a hug bc that somehow never occurs to him, even while I'm crying my eyes out?!) 😭😫
Do you think he is a good husband overall? He doesn’t really sound emotionally available.
@@SK-no2pp I do think he is a great husband believe it or not. I have seen the needle move as Thais says and I can't imagine doing life with anyone else beside me. We've both been through a lot, both before and together. 23 years together so far. If he wasn't invested in improving, I'd say no amount of time with someone requires me or anyone else to continue poor treatment. But it's moving, and he wants to improve, so that helps a lot.
@@sillymamacita3854 but you’ve been together for 23 years, and he still is trying to improve and doesn’t know how to be there for you emotionally
@@sillymamacita3854 like Thais, I have a soft spot for DA's as well. ❤ I think it's great that you are addressing your needs ahead of time because often people think their partner should be mind readers and just know how to emotionally be there for them in every area and that's really not fair. I'd say between you speaking up and you seeing progress on his end combined with you saying he's a great husband are all good things! I noticed when I date a DA they will compromise and move the needle but at their pace and as with anything in life, slow progress is still progress. I notice DA's might not always jump in at the seemingly insignificant stuff, but when I'm going through a crisis (like recently when my mom passed away) they can be pretty amazing in these times. My DA wrote me paragraph after paragraph of the most supportive and heartfelt words through my time of need. I think it's more of the little nitpicking stuff they aren't super interested in participating in. Lol
@@SK-no2ppit sounds like she is working with who he is so beautifully. You’re an amazing wife. So happy to hear this tip for my avoidant ex and the couples I work with.. we all get to work with who we are working with
Mike , you did such a good job! Thank you for being vulnerable & sharing. It’s things that other attachment styles need to hear & understand. Thank you for sharing your scrabble directions. I hope that the comments on here are gentle. And if they are not, try to remember that it’s likely coming from their own pain. And has nothing to do with you.
Thais excellent as always. Thank you for doing these.
I'm sitting here, holding my breath and holding back a nervous smile while listening to the list of traits a perfect partner would have. Yeah... sounds like the perfect person. Hell, just last night I was telling my family that I think that the only way I could ever share a life with someone is if they wanted to buy a duplex with me, and build a door to connect the units, but can also be locked if either of us need alone time.
Great idea!! I would at least need a separate bedroom but full on separate houses is ideal.
This 💯 @@LeeChrissy
This sounds like such an exhausting dynamic! Having to tiptoe around the DA, just so you don't step on their fuse, having to be their therapist and cater to all their fears. How about the DA catering to some of the fears of their partner? Hell no! That would mean too much emotional involvement. I've been there, done that, tried to be their therapist, only to be dismissed by them. Well, at this point, the DAs are dismissed from my life. Thank you very much and good bye.
I feel you on all this
DA are always worried about how they are showing up wrong. So positive feedback is really helpful. How they are showing up right
except how they show up right is usually not note worthy....
That's IF they even show up!!
Thais - your curiosity and care and hope and love are among the best I’ve ever known. Thank you for teaching us these paths to learn love without fear, without expectations. For me that is as close to loving *as Christ loved* as I think we can ever get. What a gift to give us so freely! It makes me laugh with joy to feel what’s possible now, what’s imminent. I’m so hopeful. I understand how projection works, but still, I’ll say-I’m SO PROUD OF YOU. Just look what you’ve done!! I want to hug you, too! 🥹🤩🥰
Sounds like non-commital long term casual is the DA's favoured relationship setting. It's as self-centered (centered on the self) as it gets. Sometimes outright selfish too. You're expected to acquiesce to their rigid boundaries but you can't assert yours in the gentlest of ways without them shutting down. I'm sure there are autistic people out there who are easier to date/ be in a relationship with.
I'm actually not sure whether autism and dismissive avoidance kind of overlaps somewhat....Like the lack of social awareness and relationship norms makes me think that some people who might be considered da are actually autistic but it's hard to tell.
@rachelmel I absolutely agree. So many behaviours are the same. It's as if the trauma that caused the DA attachment style at a very young age affected the same neural pathways/ wiring of those in the autistic spectrum. I have often wondered if my partner is autistic. He is an extreme compartmentaliser.
I dated someone that I believe was autistic and dismissive avoidant. Whew it was rough. He’s not a bad person but there is a lot to work through.
Congrats to your friend for all the works he did on is DA attachement! Very good episode !
This compelling video brings back terrible memories of my recent breakup after four years of dating. My dearest friend made the decision to go, and I was left with an inexhaustible hurt. I can't even begin to imagine my life without him, much as I keep trying to make amends. I'm frustrated. I want to write about how much I miss him here because I can't seem to get him out of my head.
It's hard to say goodbye to someone you love; I experienced this when my 12-year relationship ended. However, I couldn't just let him go; instead, I tried everything to win him back. Eventually, I turned to a spiritual counsellor for assistance, and he was able to help me win him back.
Interesting! How did you locate a spiritual counsellor, and how can I get in touch with him most effectively?
His name is Father Obah Eze, and he is a great spiritual counselor who can bring back your ex.
he is father obah eze, he has great powers, he can help you.
Thank you Thais for putting all the great work into this topic. WE should all be greatful for the work you're doing really.
While i see it is possible for someone to have that patience and acknowledge you guys in the way you need it, isn't that the line between a relationship with a child or your kid and a relationship with an adult?
I really think dealing with DA is perhaps one of the most difficult things to deal with in life. While yes it is important to understand all these dynamics from the DA perspective. Aren't we just making excuses for them to actually grow up in the good sense, I am not intending to call anyone a child here but let's be honest isn't that a need for someone to actually really work on becoming an emotional mature person or a fully developed adult person if you'd like? which is not an easy thing to do, of course I am not denying that it is a very difficult thing to accomplish because to start with, it is something that should had started with your parents having done it in the right way, so that already in itself states the magnitud of the complexity of the subject.
What I would like to see more in the future even if that is after I'm gone for good is making parents a bit more responsable of things like these, sort in a way for people to think that having babies or creating a family means more that just pleasing the desired of some women or people encountering meaning of life just in becoming mother or father. And therefore just because they already ticked that box in their life then they can allow themselves to leave the boat sinking without really understanding that the deepest consequences of that is not the adults but the kids that will inherit some undesirable side effects. This is the reason I am grateful for content like this to be more popular.
Thank you !!
I (Anxious) would address a need or desire. He (DA) would feel criticized and double down on not meeting my needs. But would use that as an opportunity to frame a need he had that he had never expressed before. Usually sexual. I’d express an openness to meet that need. As the need to earn your love person, I would perform his need, and quickly, to demonstrate how important he was and my willingness to compromise. Also I was hoping that would inspire him to meet the need that I was expressing. But he would receive and then retreat back into his solo space. Over time, it made me feel used. So bringing up the need again, he would voice that my repeating myself was nagging. He would then find another need that i could perform. The cycle never ended. He concludes with people who love each other are happy to give and put others first. But it was largely how much could I give and ask for nothing. Just be content that he was a decent person. How can you help someone want to do the work of meeting in the middle when they think their way is the “right” way?
@@findingfaye2859 I understand your hurt.
They don’t like you reciprocating their pull back. I don’t miss feeling like everything came before me!
The only thing that has worked for me is not making my need a request but more as a non-negotiable. Obviously if it was a need that was extremely important to me, not just some small need that I'm capable of meeting myself. You have to be confident and assertive and be willing to leave if it's that important to you. No relationship is worth losing yourself over. If he doesn't want to compromise make it known that that's not the kind of relationship you want to be in.
My ex DA would compromise, but you can tell he wasn't used to it lol. For instance, when we saw each other on the weekend, Friday's was better for him but Saturdays were better for me. So I suggested we alternate Fri and Sat every weekend and he liked this. I find it's really about the approach.
It doesn’t sound to me like it’s very likely to change in any way if he hasn’t met you half way with any of what you’re asking despite you putting out more (for lack of a better and more tactful word). The fact that he’s dismissing what you’re saying you want and calling it nagging is also further sign of unhealthy behavior and possible DA-ness
I’m an FA and…eesh. Basically every single DA Expectation is an expectation I have of myself. Not so much other people but…yeah. I was literally conditioned that way by DA parents who shamed me for having really any emotions and wants and needs and opinions that didn’t parrot theirs. Now that I am needing a support system and have a few people insist on trying to be it for me? I feel almost allergic to accepting any sort of help, especially practical. There’s still this sense of terror with voicing a need (forget wants) with people I actually want to connect with that is incredibly difficult to “just do it scared anyway”. Everything feels like exposure work.
Positively framing the need. Love your solutions Thais!❤
Listening helped me to see how it's normal to not get needs met by DA's and I can recognize how I've been like that in the past with my own inner judgments. I think I got some balanced advise about how to proceed with one of my friends who I see is a DA and now I get the picture to not expect much closeness from him anymore. I will still be friends but it's probably unrealistic that we can come back together again.
Thank you for this episode, very eye-opening and it was easy to watch the whole thing. As an FA, having been married to a DA in the past and find myself being pulled towards a DA again, I am wanting to understand my mistakes and past patterns as well as see if the situation can be suitable for me. I would like to understand him more, but at the same time realize I will have to adjust in many way in order to understand him. I’m realizing that this dynamic is not healthy for me and not a complementary fit so I really appreciate the information you’ve given here.
Useful. I would like a way of uncovering people who are more avoidant. I just want to know pretty quickly, and what I''ve found is that they can stay quite well hidden for quite a long time. I have a way of identifying if people are a bit grandiose, low on empathy and ego driven really quickly and it just helps me along with how to approach them and what to reveal and how close to get. I think I will use the ask them about their feelings. If they're avoidant they will disappear right, so if I'm asking before I'm too attached I can use that to guage whether the person is avoidant or not.
It’s really simple. Express something they did (behavior) that had an impact on you (on your feelings) and do it cleanly with responsibility. Then see how they respond to it. If they are willing to listen empathize and make adjustments, they’re emotionally mature & intelligent and available and open and receptive to healthy relating. And if they’re an avoidant or DA, they will take it personally, get defensive, shut down and run away. That kinda thing. If they do this, it’s not a 100% sign they’re a DA but it will give you an early insight in their maturity level.
Need to hear more of Mike's responses to this! It's SO good to hear from a male DA's perspective directly from someone who used to be a DA 😅
I think he just explained not being in a relationship
Great list, Mike! I understand a lot of it as a healing-FA. I wish every DA could put it so plainly so we can see where we'll be great and where we need to make other arrangements or heal.
7 mins in - what exactly do DAs want a partner for then ?
Relationships come in all shapes and sizes. Some want marriage and kids, some want to just flow with it, some want a poly relationship, some want to have a long-term monogamous relationship but live separately. We just have to find someone who shares similar views on relationships.
Loved this one. Can't wait for the rest!
You both are adorable. Big smile. Very helpful. Lin🥰
Great episode! looking forward to the rest of this series, this is a great topic AND i look forward to the other attachment styles series too!
1:00:00 I am more FA than DA but I can see that in myself too. It is more comfortable to write a message rather than talk about really vulnerable things or I prefer just to shift to another language which we both understand than our native.
For me it is more because I like to reread it and delete what is not good but when we talk there is no erase button and other language feels a little disconnected from feelings and safer because of it.
But they perceive things as control when it’s just another human in front of them asking for what they need
Being with an avoidant is a total nightmare I dont ever want to repeat. They are manipulative, showing up as their BEST selves early on, reeling someone in, telling them everything they want to hear only to drop them from up high and disappear with zero emotions and consequences because they said all along they were “avoidant” horrible
If you’re giving for the sake of giving just to make yourself feel better then you should NEVER expect anything in return. If you’re giving because your girlfriend/boyfriend is asking for something then it is 100% in the right to expect something in return. For me I just want appreciation and respect which doesn’t cost time or money.
Instead I was given the silent treatment, poor communication, and told “your problems aren’t nearly as big as my problems so relax”. I was told I was annoying when I brought up my issues and told not to suppress my feelings but it was 100% okay for her to talk about her issues with me and suppress her feelings if it meant cancelling fun in the sun but she always brought the issue back up 2/3 days later once all was paid for and no more fun was to be had. Not to mention are both Christians so I had scripture thrown in my face on how biblical men are supposed to be but never once did she understand what a biblical woman is supposed to be. It didn’t end well. No one was physically injured but I know that I was emotionally abused after months apart. I pray for her but I can’t do anything else at this point.
@@billbills7158 I'm experiencing this exact dynamic minus the religious parts. But any attempts to communicate or have reciprocity is met with me being annoying and my problems are nothing compared to his...even says I need to focus on making money...I'm like well didn't you attend my graduation from my masters program? I went to college and grad school while working full time and I work full time now with another part time job while getting you a job...your first good paying job with benefits...how am I not focused on money meanwhile he doesn't have any education (due to childhood neglect) and I've never judged him. Nobody is ever as good as them. They have a high sense of self and low value of others and what you've done for them when they needed your help. Once they get the help they are back to being mean and dismissive.
20:09 Surely it is completely rational for a person who has saved up some money to be a bit wary of a partner with debt! I do not see how that would be dismissive avoidant, isn't that just being smart!
Right? I agree.
I definitely agree, but I don't think they're talking about just being wary. I think they're talking about completely like judging a person and shutting down a relationship over it.
We do show our love but when we don't get it in return that's why we stop caring or fall back because we don't want to get hurt and or sometimes we just like being by ourselves because nobody theses days don't know how to be in a relationship and when we ask someone we like out and they come up with the same stuff all the time I got a man or I'm talking to someone we don't like playing games so that why we stay to ourselves
Question for avoidants
When talking about “pacing of a relationship”
How long do you expect to be “friends” and testing the water before becoming exclusive or atleast not wanting to date multiple people?
Only speaking for myself here, but if I'm not committing after maybe 3 months then I'm not going to at all. I also won't string anyone along. If that's what they want and I don't I'll end it. Being monogamous is not an issue for me, but if you're looking for a definitive answer about long term and I can't decide after a few months then you ain't it for me.
For me 3 month of spending 20+ hrs a week together as friends. My default is FA but I’ve done 5 yrs of intense work and am now secure.
The rollercoaster 🎢 😮💨❤️🩹
Thank You Thais 😊🙏
I tried to tell the truth In love and it was interpreted as criticism not just feedback. Uh❤. Thanks for all your share tho
this format really suits me
I’m just finding out that maybe I’m avoidant after years of abuse. Trying to find ways to heal and not carry this to others. The guy I dated seemed more anxious and it was off putting in beggining then when I started to take down my wall he broke my heart. I knew from the Beginning and told him and said no you will break my heart. Anyway here I go again trying to analysis and boy did I make some horrible missatkes with questions I asked him! I also tried to diagnosis him and said something Bay offended him and my brain. Was just scanning possible is not meant to offend. I’m not a judgemental person and anything I joked about something he became very upset. Comedy and playing with words or joking around is how I roll. Life is too hard to be serious and MEVEr ever would I harm a person on purpose and not even my ex husband that harmed me beyond words. Now if someone put my life at risk then they gonna be … 😂
Is so funny for me to realize sometimes how difficult our cultures are "when your boss is yelling at you" LOL can't not imagen this EVER happy in Belgium, it is literally so far away from my own reality.
I am so sorry guys if you ever had to experience that :(
this video’s take really clicks with some of the things I've been reading in ebook magnetic aura from Borlest
My DA showed some selfreflection for two weeks in August. None before, none since in over 7 years of on-off-relationship.
She sounded so real then - just perfect. What made that possible and what ended it the following week? Any ideas?
awesome vid g
DAs really sound like emotional children. Where their fears rule their view on life.
@@Apbt-rv7zw you sound very condescending and emotionally immature. Maybe look into fixing your own attachment.
@LeeChrissy actually you attacking me about the behaviours of Avoidants is imature and condescending. Look at any coach on attachment theory they will say Avoidants show the following-
Stonewalling, lack of communication
Discard, leave, abandon
Blame, project, gaslight
Monkey branch, cheat
Self interest, lack compassion, empathy...
This to name a few of Avoidant traits.
Pull your head out n maybe you6⁶
@LeeChrissy Well, if you don't think DAs don't let their fears trigger them and react in a way that rules their life, then please explain.
Stonewalling, abusive behaviours, emotional and physical withdrawal.
Distancing, discarding, shutting down, lacking sincerity and feelings.
Lacking empathy, inability to self reflect. and we can say more, but let's round this out with monkey branching and cheating.
These behaviours are common in children who, by nature, are egotistical. Many children grow up to regulate themselves. Avoidants, unfortunately , often don't regulate but do a lot of self soothing. If you're familiar wth Avoidance, you'll be aware of these behaviours that are termed maladjusted.
@@LeeChrissy ???
Please...allow spanish captions . Thanks for sharing this infirmation
in your experience do DA's wear a mask in public? Like where they try and be what they think is a good, kind, caring giving etc person and will willingly give hugs to members of the opposite sex, and then are totally distant from their partner and will not hug them.
As a recovered AP I am not a fan of the assumption that we don't like having intellectual conversations, I prefer to have them much more than my DA partner does! 😜
Can I please ask, while that list is super informative and eye opening, what happens when a DA has all those things from a relationship? If they have someone who is putting in the work for not only the partnership, but for themselves as a partner of a DA?
I showed up in my most recent relationship with openness, a growth mindset and empathy to my ex's needs. He had pretty much that whole list of things that a DA wants out of a relationship.
It was only when I voiced a boundary of mine, that unfortunately needed to be put in place because of his actions, that he ran (14months into the relationship). I understand it's because he felt attacked. But why have everything you ever want in a partnership to just run like that?
Do DA's have a hard time respecting other people's boundaries in that respect? It was like, when some effort on his part needed to be shown, he'd rather just leave abruptly 😢
Unfortunately just like any other attachment style, everyone is different. What might work for one person will not work for another. Thais gives a great baseline of tips that can help for many, but seeing as there are different personalities, morals, needs and willingness to compromise behind every DA, it's hard to pinpoint exactly what could be done differently.
What I noticed I was doing in the past was meeting a few of my exes "needs" based on what "I" would want. I would do a bunch of things but they never once told me they wanted or needed any of it. So we can be running around thinking we're the perfect girlfriend, but unknowingly not meeting what he actually needs and unfortunately because they usually don't express it or sometimes even know what their needs are, you can't really troubleshoot this without directly asking the individual.
@LeeChrissy I know it's very individual. I guess I'm trying to make sense of something I cannot relate to. Putting my all into trying to make a relationship work as a healed AP and having it essentially thrown back at me, has really sucked.
I'm so sorry you had this happen. It can destroy you to be discarded so quickly after giving so much. It's not you. DAs are often emotionally paralyzed. They repeat the same pattern with everyone, and that is where they want to be seen and understood and have all their needs met while you, 1. take care of your own needs or 2. don't have any needs at all.
How can that be your fault?
I hope you can find perspective and free yourself of this anguish. You were dealing with a child and now there's room to find a grown up.
Don’t talk to me too often/expect daily communication. Don’t admit you have feelings for me. Don’t look me in the eyes during intimacy . If you can meet these criteria, then please let me know and I will consider you to be my boyfriend. 🥰
Re: not putting the need fully on the other. How does this work with touch intimacy? I can’t figure that out… hugging myself isn’t cutting it. Hugging my kids is great but I need more hugs from my husband. We are working on this, but I’m just not sure how to meet that need myself.
Sounds like your husband’s love language of physical touch is towards the bottom for him.
I get it. I’m only 10% physical touch. I’ve chose to only be with a man who aligns with me in all 5 love languages.
He should at least want to Try with you.
Cards on the table. In a non emotional tone I’m getting
Mike explains why these people are a complete waste of your time, energy, emotion and commitment. Dump and move on.
💯💯💯
How can these people progress without someone to show them what a healthy relationship is like?
Therapists can tell them, but experiential learning is really the only way.
@@sanguinemoon9201 true. But in order to Change You gotta Want to. The problem with DAs is they are Not Interested, Hurt a lot of People in the process, and think Everyone Else is the problem. They only change when Their Pain becomes unbearable. By that time, they've usually left a trail of broken hearts 💔 and have done Nothing to make up for it! If you're willing to get yours broken while attempting to show them the way, that's up to you.
In 7 years I have not met her daughters once; met one friend & neighbor couple out of many in her orbit;
What I dont really get: What do people actually get being with an avoidant person? These relationships sound so unsatisfying. I have an avoidant friend and her behavior, instead of making me want to cling to her and overcome her distance, just makes me want to take a step back. I just feel like: Uff I am really only getting so little out of it, I think this is just not the frienship it seemed in the beginning. Yes, dissapointing - but my impulse is to create more distance, not to overcome the distance she creates already. I mean: That woman is just so unable to be vulnerable or show emotional support. And she is sooooooooo unreliable. So what do I get out of this? not very much. Yes she is very giving when it comes to gifts and acts of service. But dont you dare want emotional intimacy. I feel sad for her, because I can only guess how lonely her self-contained ,self-sufficient, closed off way of being is. But for me as a friend, it really is rather boring (and hurtful at times, but mostly just boring and superficial).
best!!!
So someone that wants to have a committed relationship, should not date an avoidant person.
why not buy flowers n gauge their reaction. does he do nothing romantic n sporadic unless explicitly told otherwise just showing up. where is the leading and caring to ask what she likes
Beauty and the beast is my relational movie as a AP/FA in a relationship with a DA
I’m going to guess you weren’t 2 hrs away tho . 💔
Absolutely as a healing anxious going towards secure now that im with my DA...i absolutey assume that like majority of the relationship is like 70% emotional romantic connections and deep conversations...and like 30% physical things/gifts/acts of service lol. Also yes im noticing language matters...absolutely never mention him having feelings about anything...that always triggers him so i even notice when i say "what did you think about that?" I'd get an answer. I vaguely remember him yelling ince saying "i have no feelings!" I really wish i could go back in time and be friends with him while he was going through his emotional neglect❤
@@rarab22 what would you have gotten being friends with someone who claims to have no feelings?
@@SK-no2pp not so much about what I'd get but idk I wish I could have been a friend he could feel safe with emotionally as a child. That's all really, maybe an emotionally available friend would have helped him feel much safer? That's my thinking but it is an assumption also.
@@rarab22 no I don’t think so. That’s not how avoidant attachment works. You can model secure behavior for them, but they still have to do the work. And most of the time secure behavior triggers them.
@@SK-no2pp yes that is true. I wonder if they would have the same reaction to secure behaviors as a child compared to as an adult 🤔
@@rarab22 I love your heart. I have a few DA's in my life that are absolutely amazing humans. I was actually talking to one yesterday who I reached out for help and was literally right there no questions asked. By the end of our visit, she was sharing a closure conversation she was having with an ex. They do learn and grow, especially around those who are calm natured and who have an accepting and loving mannerism.
Wow, that was way too much information for one sitting!