Tombstone: On the Cutting Room Floor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Bob Boze Bell weighs in on Kevin Jarre’s original script. Everyone seems to agree that Kevin Jarre’s original script for Tombstone was brilliant. So, why hasn’t someone dusted off the source material and re-filmed it the way Kevin wrote it? Is it because it’s too long for a movie, as some suggest, or is there a deeper truth about the whole shebang?
We asked the participants in the 1993 film to weigh in, along with some of the best historians in the Earp field.
Bob Boze Bell is known as America's Western Storyteller. He is an artist, author, writer and serves as executive editor of True West magazine. Bell is a popular, sought-after figure in television documentaries about the Old West, appearing as an expert in dozens of Wild West history shows. Bell won an Emmy Award as Executive Producer of the PBS special, Outrageous Arizona, a zany look at the state's centennial, that he also wrote and helped direct. As an author, Bell has brought to life Billy the Kid, Geronimo, Doc Holliday, Wyatt Earp and Wild Bill Hickok in his best-selling Illustrated Life and Times series. His books Classic Gunfights I, II and III are must-reads about the most important Old West gunfights. Bell’s Bad Men is now in its fourth printing, while his illustrated autobiography, The 66 Kid: Raised on the Mother Road, gives personal insight into the passions that have driven him on his lifelong quest to interpret the history of the American West for audiences around the world.
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"Hello Bob" ( BTK reference!)
I could listen to you all day. Love it. Thanks!!
Another great job Bob, fascinating how the script was changed. Being able to visit both movies sets would've been a daisy.
Tombstone is one of my top 5 favorite movies. Casting was the very best. Performances top notch. I can’t give this movie enough superlatives. The bad guys were as interesting to watch as the good guys!
I loved the Costner movie as well. I believe the real secret weapon for Tombstone was the cast. Tombstone had a much better cast than Earp did. Especially with Val Kilmer. I’m no expert as to if his portrayal was accurate or not, but he certainly stood out as did Michael Biehn and Powers Boothe. And of course you can’t go wrong with anything Sam Elliott does.Hopefully if Kevin’s script gets a mini series on Netflix hopefully , he can get a great cast.
Casting was brilliant in this movie. Val Kilmer will be hard to top as Doc Holliday, but the entire cast was perfect!
I felt Wyatt Earp was more of a character study; whereas Tombstone leaned towards an action flick in it's dialog/character development. Both were good but Tombstone won out as more appealing to the masses. We had a local critic at the time if she didn't like it we all went to see it no matter what it was that was our movie barometer.
Good grief. Kurt Russel outshined them all.
Wyatt Earp would be played by Kevin Hart
I think so too. I am a fan of Costner, and Russell both. I think both were really good, with some big talent. But the support cast in Tombstone was absolutely over the top amazing. I truly do not think there was anyone in Tombstone that didn’t deliver an exceptional performance.
And I mean no disrespect to anyone on Wyatt Earp.
I worked TOMBSTONE for about last 10 weeks. I was the downstairs waiter in the Bird Cage and horseback with all my own gear, horses, saddle portraying Red Sash Gang. I got to sit down with Sam Elliot , ride and pic took with Buck Taylor, get my picture took with Kurt Russell, meet Harry Carey jr, Bill Fraker and talk about Monte Walsh, long list of good times. Long hours, good food, camping with my horses , riding and seeing neat country, and good pay for playing cowboy. Bill Weddle
Did you have a chance to meet Dana Delany?
@@ralphh.2200 Nope.
I really enjoy your articles in True West and enjoyed listening to you tell the tale just as much. If you keep doing live streams, I'll keep watching them!
Mr. Bell, you are a fascinating man for sure! Your ability to covey your enthusiasm through your videos is second to none. It was riveting, thank you and keep them coming!
I am a True West subscriber and wasn't able to watch the comments live, but I sure enjoyed listening to the Bob's personal information relating to the two films. Also, I feel like I need to go back and re-watch Tombstone and Wyatt Earp after hearing about the wardrobe challenges when Kevin Costner decided to buy up the available costumes, leaving the Tombstone wardrobe availability to seek alternatives overseas. Thanks for doing this!
Hello Mr Bell: First off, I want to THANK YOU for your “True West Magazine” and these You Tube Videos- I can’t get enough of them! ❤️ I live in Oklahoma City and I would like to ask you, if you would to do a Video or a Story about the Gunfight at Ingalls (outside of Stillwater, Okla). After I read about it, I believe it is every bit as “exciting” of a story as Tombstone or Coffeyville. If you have done something on it already, I apologize because I’ve missed it. Thank You again.
When it came out I WAS HOOKED! i have watched it so many times, its embarrassing . . . love your videos! So if they remake Jarre's version, IDK if it could have the personal connection . . . i would watch it if and when it may come out!
Me too
Started at Cinema 2 times
Then on VHS then onto DVD & Blu Ray I have watched this at least 30 times
I like the old west stories and you make them even more interesting, thanks.
The movie is good but I definitely think the original script would’ve made it a masterpiece.
Good stuff....thx.......I grew up in a Hotel (our family owned) in Colorado that was built in 1878. Love this stuff. I seen a historic photo of the Hotel in True West Magazine once . It was the Jackson Hotel ...Poncha Spga Colo. ....thx again from Golden Valley Arizona !
Watched this with my son as we both love Tombstone. Fascinating! I think another saving grace of the film is its pace - it moves like a B picture. No fat, no slack. Costner had no one to say no to him, and no budget pressure. Russell was right!
I've long been an enthusiast of our western history, including Little Bighorn, Billy the Kid, and, of course, Wyatt Earp. Years ago I loved a series about the search for Troy. I recall especially the phrase "discovering new worlds for the imagination". Apt! That is precisely what Bob gives us.
You may enjoy my book, “Billy the Kid: El Bandido Simpático” which will be released by University of North Texas Press this summer
Watched Tombstone for the umpteenth time two days before watching this video. Absolutely loved the information. Great job.
Thank you, sir. It's sad that Costner's ego would go so low. I'm glad that possibly, providentially, the costumes worked out as such. Tombstone and The Outlaw Josie Wales are. 2 of my all timers. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and good fortune.
Loved this video, Bob! A Tombstone mini series would be sweet! BTW I clicked the bell for Bell long ago! Peace!
How about a sequel to Tombstone? Kurt Russell as a fifty-something Wyatt Earp, traveling to Alaska, living in Los Angeles, and mining near Vidal? Sam Elliott as a sixty-something Virgil Earp, working as a deputy sheriff in Goldfield, Nevada. Someone would have to write the script, but I think it would be awesome!
Thank you sir! Enjoyed your comments about both Tombstone movies
this program, that you have now...IS WONDERFUL, Brother Bob !!
Hi Bob loved this video and thank you for your expertise and enthusiasm on all other videos about the old west which has been a passion of mine for as long as I can remember watching the Saturday night western with my uncles over here some of the films even had Gabby Hayes getting the girl! I preferred Tombstone over Kevin Costner’s Wyatt Earp but would love to see Kevin Jarre’s original script filmed. Very best wishes. Jim Harrison. Cheshire. UK.
Nice presentation. I had seen some time ago that the movie had to be rushed to meet certain timeframes and Kurt Russell felt that if those deadlines didn't exist the movie would have been an all time great, even though it still ranks very high. I really appreciate the behind the scenes look at both movies and like you, I hope I am still around if and when a movie or mini-series is made using the original script of Tombstone. Thanks again. P.S. I look forward to each issue of your magazine.
Great video as always Bob. I'm a little late getting to watch but Tombstone is one of those movies that I can always watch everytime I find it on TV. I have it and the Wyatt Earp movie on DVD. I'm 30 years old but I grew up watching John Wayne movies and Bonanza and Gunsmoke with my grandparents. Wyatt Earp was a good movie also, but Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday is the main reason I alway liked Tombstone better.
Great job Bob! Loved all the background stories. I could listen to you for hours! You are amazing....and lucky to visit both sets. I dream of being on a western movie set someday. See you down the trail. Keep those True West Mags comin'
Just found your channel. I used to listen to your radio show and have been a Wyatt fan since watching it on TV as a kid.
Of the two movies, if someone were to blend those two scripts and shoot it as a mini series, WOW!
The early life in Wyatt Earp, and the later in Tombstone would be a blowout.
Thank you Bob.
Bob, thanks for posting. You know I've watched the movie "Tombstone" over 120 times! I loved the movie so much I moved nearby from back east. I still live near Tombstone. I never knew any of this though. I'll look for the March issue when I go to the store this afternoon. P.S. I bought the magazine today. Very good!
How very interesting! Amazing to know all the twist and turns in making these two films. Thank you sooo much.
Tombstone was SO good.....and so ICONIC.....if they tried to go back and do it all again with the original scripts it would fail....Doc Holiday is owned by Kilmer. Cant think of an actor that fill those shoes
Wes I did very much injoy your video and would like to see more done like this, thanks much Bob.
I would love to see the script resurrected as a mini series. I have long wished for a remake of "Big Jake" With Tom Selleck, Sam Elliott , And Wes Srudi. What do you thing?
If they remake Big Jake I hope they let dog make it through the end. And Sam too. Or at the very least have the ending reflect their loss. The ending seemed hurried
I just found your channel and I love it!
"Fast Forward" ..., Excellent video and important information by "Bob Boze Bell" ! ! * So good.., I watched the video, not once.., but twice... Excellent video, and thank you for sharing the video and information. I may.., watch it again... Mike O'Brien in Montana :)
Brilliant! Loved your story. Empathize with the boomer arrogance reference regarding writing a better script and taking your son to Tombstone premiere. Envy you.
Nearly destroyed my life in midlife crisis believing I could be a better screenwriter/filmmaker than most in Hollywood (digital cameras were just coming out) & set out to prove it! Now that is arrogance! Told my wife I’d give up in 5 years if I hadn’t succeeded. She lasted 3, I won awards around the world and met with some of the top names in Hollywood before my 5 year goal arrived. My reward was being divorced, penniless and homeless. But, in my mind, I succeeded! Yeah, a film in itself!
Thanks for your story on Tombstone & Wyatt Earp movies! Gripping!
I always enjoy your content. Thanks.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching this movie. I got so caught up in watching this movie, that I actually felt as I were living in that time period! Love your story telling Bob! You definitely have the voice for it!
Really good stuff Bob, keep it coming. Nice depth of detail and story telling in all your video and True West. The old west characters are fascinating especially for a westerner like me.
Tombstone may be the only western I have watched that reminds me of an Opera. And that is how I enjoy it.
I can describe Tombstone as a tragedy using only the title of a Giuseppe Verdi Opera, 'The Force of Destiny".
Each movie discussed captures the tragic nature of not only Wyatt Earp's life but many of the characters in each movie.
But, for me, only Tombstone makes me remember my favorite Operas.
Glad I found your video and will be watching from now on.
Interesting and informative information.
Like the way he presents
It bob’s knowledge of the
Western history is impressive. I watch all of these talks that I can finand almost always learn
Something
Great channel Bob. Great movies and they should do all versions.
This is great! Hope to see the mini-series.
I would love for you to do a video on my favorite western of all time, lonesome dove
Very good as usual!
i love the channel please make more and give us TRUTH in history!!!
My two favourite "modern" movies are Tombstone and Legends of the fall. They both build into revenge movies.
I suspect that most people have un-resolved issues in life, so this type of movie appeals to them more than historical accuracy.
As I live in "Kelly Country" in north east Victoria Australia, I see that hero-worship is well and truly alive 140+ years after they hanged poor Ned.
Really love the stories, keep them Bob.
Love the inside story of movies. This is absolutely wonderful
Really enjoyed the stories! Subscribed.
Great show. Thanks
Excellent job, as usual!
Love your videos, they are always a lot of fun. Hey, since we are talking about movies, could you do a video critiquing Young Guns 1 and 2, and the movie The Kid?
Bob. Another great episode in your telling of Southwest history. I would love to meet you sometime and discuss a couple of my favorite topics. Back in the day you used to tell people to stop into the True West offices in Cave Creek for a visit. All the best.
Interesting. I visited Tombstone once. Would be interesting to see all the clips cut.
That was very interesting and I’m glad I watched it!
Really enjoying BBB's commentary on this and other topics (just listened to the bit about the gun that killed Billy The Kid). Looking forward to catching up on more from True West Magazine and Bob.
Interesting behind the scenes walk through. One of the legal issues about using "a script" for a movie is that, once the copyright has been bought it's owned by the movie company and they can do with it as they please. Even if the script was optioned and then the writer paid off, it still won't be useable material. Basically, the original script is now dead. Same thing happened to the script for Robin Hood with Russell Crow. They messed about with it so much it was no longer the script/movie it was set out to be. The original script was owned by the movie company so it could never be used as the unique idea that got everybody interested in the first place.
Way cool... Thanks Bob
Love this
Neat to get the story about these two scripts . Thank you very much. Yeehaaw.
Turning 40 and i grew up in Sweden we had all the classic western movies, and yeah a rerun of Flipper .. and a theme park called High Chaparral (still exist, look it up)
Patrik. Edit. Shame he got fired. Still love that movie tho. Glad you got to see both sets 🤠
I have been a FAN of TOMBSTONE , since '93 . My friend and I have called one another Doc and Wyatt , ALL These Years . We have quoted their lines for GENERATIONS . It is my HOPE that we WILL NEVER lose sight of how GREAT this MOVIE 🍿🎥 was. We watch TOMBSTONE at least once a year , together. HOWEVER , I watch 3 - 4 times a a Year, especially on the Anniversary of the shoot out at the O. K. CORRAL . Loved everything thing about this MOVIE , the LOCATION, CAST ,and CREW. If I had been DIRECTING and PRODUCING this FILM ,I wouldn't change a thing . ❣️ AWESOME MOVIE ❣️ the BEST WESTERN 🤠 OF ALL TIME ❣️ ............ LOVE 💕LOVE 💕 LOVE 💕...... Yours Truly , Doc Holliday , esq .......... Thanks , Mr. Bell , for this Awesome Documentary .
Great info.
Great video. Extremely informative. You're the 'master'.
Bob, I enjoy your videos very much. My daughter, Meghan, and I had a ritual the summer between her juinor and senior year of high school. We'd watch Tombstone together. My final nickname for her, 'MegYig' is a direct result of that. It paraphrases Johnny Ringo and is code for, "Meghan, you ignorant wretch." (Unlike the Cowboy, who butchers what the Mexican priest is quoting fom the bible, Meghan happens to speak Spanish fluently, as well as English of course.) I'm reading Kevin Jarre's original screenplay per your recommendation. Bob, you're correct, he's trying to put in way too much for a movie. It WOULD have to be a miniseries. His dialogue rings false at times, too. He obviously fell in love with Western slang, so he tends to cram too much of it into a single statement. That's actually rookie writing. That's something I'd do if I ever tried writing a screenplay. And I ain't no writer. I've read that members of Butch Cassidy's Wild Bunch would say things like, "Raise 'em or I'll scatter your brains from Hell to breakfast!" They didn't get too wordy..."Raise 'em or I'll scatter your brains from Hell to breakfast and you'll be buzzard meat pushin' up daisies! I'm your huckleberry." I'm not finished with Jarre's screenplay yet, but so far I'm thinking that what ended up in 'Tombstone' is pretty darn good. And it qualifies as a "classic" as is.
Where can you find an online version of original (unaltered) script for tombstone?
How can I get a copy of the True West magazine referred to in this video?
I so admire that Bob recognized Dodge City! I would recognize Tombstone, because I have been there and loved it. But the only other legit old west town I would know, is Virginia City Nevada… which Tombstone reminded me very much of. Except Tombstone is very flat, and Virginia City has really nothing flat. 🤣🤣😁
At 19:18 where did they move over one street? In tombstone or the ranch set for Wyatt?
Best movie ever.
I do believe the formal boxing rules back in the day which Bob is trying to remember are the Marcus of Queesbury's rules, which started the necessary ten sacond count for a knock-out when one boxer is knocked down. Just F.Y.I.
Kevin Jarre's script would have been a four hour movie and for economic reasons, that wouldn't work. (You've already noted the disparity between the budgets of both Tombstone and Wyatt Earp) On top of that, Kevin Jarre's vision, right down to the authenticity of the saddles, costuming and guns would have cost way above budget. The script was brilliant. It was also financially unworkable. Jarre was fired and the studio was dragging it's feet on naming a new director. The cast, realizing the movie was on the verge of just being shut down and abandoned, needed a decision made. From what I read, Kurt Russell took the script, started cutting out scenes that didn't directly tell the story. Then, with the assistance and complicity of the cast and crew, began filming the scenes that were needed to tell the story, with Russell directing the movie. Kosmatos was eventually named director and when he showed up on set and saw what they were doing, he essentially allowed the process to work the way it was already working, with Russell directing the film. He simply double checked the shots before the scenes were filmed. Actress Dana Delaney has said that the movie would not have been completed had it not been for Kurt Russell.
I think you were drifting from one movie to the other.
Tombstone vs Wyatt Earp
But I knew what ya meant and still enjoyed your video thank you
This very strange. I’ve been searching out info on this film for the past few days and suddenly this video drops.
Good stuff 👏 👍 👌 💪 🙌
What is the best book about Doc Holliday’s life?
I know that there has been a lot about Tom Horn already, but what has been done is really subpar--how about doing a video of the iconic good-bad man?
I heard it was the director but I'm interested to hear what you have to say
Boxing Rules 'Marquess of Queensbury'.
commented on Billies post of four months ago ....
I’d like to talk to you more about icons of the west someday
Absolutely great job - Just thinking what you think about DEADWOOD- my son turned me on to it and I can’t stop watching it- allot of swearing but can be do funny and do Western-your thoughts
Mike beihn lives in bisbee you say... I'm in Douglas
I love Kevin Gordon I have a friend called Gordon Kevin may be they related.
Has anyone read a book by Paula Mitchell Marks? And Die in the West?
I hope that more Western movies and mini series are made…There is a lack of new Westerns on TV and the Movies! Too much Detective stuff. How many different NCIS do we really need? Only one! Need some Westerns again. ( I love 1883 but not Yellowstone… I just do not care for Kevin Costner as a Cowboy! )
Costner was the best Earp between the 2 movies but Tombstone was the best matinee ever
Oh well, Costner shouldn't be ashamed he was upstaged by Rickman in Robin Hood. Rickman is the better actor anyway, Just plain and simple truth. He should be glad he had the opportunity to act alongside him.
The original rules of boxing are the Marquis of Queensbury
The only script on line is the 4th draft from March 15 1993.
re. boxing: Marquis of Queensbury. 👍
Wonder why Jarre left James Earp out of Tombstone?
the marquis of qweensbury,i think.
I just found u...my home town is kingman ks....I think it's the same guy maybe not.
🙂
I think the movie would have been just as good either way script-wise, but the filming techniques used by Jarre would have negatively affected the quality of the movie probably.
Hey Bob, Ya know I am a die hard Old West History buff, an amateur of course and I'm not even American, I'm not British either. Anyway, if you spoke to me on the street you'd never know it. The thing for me here is that K. Russell's Tombstone is just an inaccurate overall bad movie with bad acting, bad dialogue and so much fantasy and sensationalism I find it absurd that it could be compared to K. Costner's Wyatt Earp. The only thing good in Tombstone is Val Kilmer and the movie is just so bad that they almost make Kilmer look bad. "You must be Doc Holliday." - "That's the rumor, you must be Johnny Ringo." Wow who came up with this amazing dialogue. It's full of historical inaccuracies in every respect and I grew up watching Kurt's movies like Disney's "The Strongest Man in The World", "The Thing" in 1982 etc, so I like Kurt but not here... Wyatt Earp was at least 6 feet or maybe a bit more and Kurt with the 12 inch barrel Peacemaker that has no record of ever existing looks like a midget in that long black coat. On the other hand Costner was as true as possible to the historic Wyatt, of course he changed some things and there are some inaccuracies too but it's a story. It's like you're dying of thirst and you're given a big tall glass of cool water and you just drink til the last drop no matter how long it takes. It's true that on the issue of Doc Holliday Costner being in 1994 compared to Russell in 1993 was hindered and had very little to work with in the way of developing his characters that's why I think that Dennis Quaid is as good a Doc as Val, different but just as good. Comparing Tombstone to Wyatt Earp is like comparing Michael Jackson to Bruce Springsteen, Jackson sells more but he's just an average singer and a dancer, Springsteen is an artist, a real musician and considering all the setbacks Costner had he gave us a great Wyatt Earp, a work of art ...Oh, it doesn't have enough guns and shootouts? Then go watch a Schwarzenegger film.
Who, Mr. Bell? Those starry eyed rascals still talkin' 'bout havin' too many irons in the fire when they know what they are gettin' themselves for Father's Day?
One trip through Charles Goodnite Quartering House & Like One of the Family Home Schooling along with several REAL Man on a Mission Trips Abroad and Hardin has them all comin' out of their 'huddles' lookin' like they knew it was crossed wires the whole while.
wink wink.
Yes, Sir. We were very impressed with our buddy Buster's Old Henry character.
Bob! You need to explain WHY you think Kevin Jarre's script is so brilliant....the more I read, the worse it gets. If I had been making the decision to green light it, I'd do so only if about 2/3s of the dialogue was jettisoned and there were myriad scene cuts. Interestingly enough, or perhaps ironically, Jarre's script is like prospecting itself---you have to discard a ton of waste to glean the nuggets.
Bob check your messager I sent you something you would be interested in. Thanks
I never saw the movies "Tombstone" and "Wyatt Earp" when they were first released in 1993 and 1994 respectively, but I took the time to watch them this weekend. Tombstone on Friday and Wyatt Earp the day after and I must say: Wyatt Earp is the better movie. Hands down. From the main characters, Kevin Costner is portraying Wyatt Earp better than Kurt Russell and Dennis Quaid out preform Val Kilmer's Doc Holliday, too.
But it doesn't end there. The storyline is in favor of Wyatt Earp as well. Lawrence Kasdan has gotten so much more out of his storyboard and his Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday than Cosmatos has. I cannot hep think how it would have been if Kevin Jarre had continued in his role.
All my thumbs go up for Wyatt Earp and I give that movie five of six stars. Tombstone will have to get by with four.
Is this really you Kevin Costner?
@@allover4309 LOL Actually it's just an opinion from a person. That's it. No hocus-pocus there.
Being from Kansas, I laughed out loud at "Wyatt Earp's" depiction of Dodge City with huge mountains in the background!!
😂
What's Up True West Magazine Was There A Actual Massacre Of Mexican Banditos Or Mexicans At A Wedding As Shown In Tombstone?
My daughter and her boyfriend were in Tombstone at the end of last summer and he proposed to her shortly after the gunfight reenactment at the OK corral in front of the spectators. I have a video of it. I wish I could have been there.