Well, they're first and foremost, probably experienced players who've had to try and fail a lot to get to where they were. Secondly, the balance of the game can basically bump up a good player to a really good performer on the meta build for the strongest classes (Say Sorc, or NB). If you'd like to learn more about how to survive like that, and how to build those kind of builds, I have a full playlist of ESO PVP explanations. I cover builds, playstyles, survival, and more!
I don't want to see the devs harassed either, but I do hold them as the party most responsible for the state of PvP. Bottom line: why should players care when ZOS clearly doesn't?
Yes, this is true. I don't agree with their design and balance philosphies and I'm not quite sure what idea they're really trying to go for. This "spreadsheet balancing" has not worked, and will not work, because the game dynamics and world just don't make sense for that. But if nobody talks about it, then they might just assume everything is fine, or continue to balance things this way thinking nobody is vocally opposed to it. It might not change anything to make this video, but at least I can speak my piece!
@@TheLostSoulESOSpreadsheet balancing has succeeded as intended: to make the devs job easier. The price is the loss of something which doesn't appear in the dps numbers: class identity and fun.
Bombers and gankers are fine with me…always have been. What drove me from playing the game were the ball groups and the overall worship they were receiving from players and content creators. The heal stacking is an exploit as far as I am concerned. Any person or groups of people using a legitimate ability or function of the game in a manner not consistent with its intended use is an exploitation of the ability. All the developers would have to do is place limits on heal stacking in PvP. Yes…these groups will always look for some or another way to continue their carnage, but at least they would be disruptable. These ball groups do not exist to take keeps or outposts. They exist to farm AP once they crack open the doors. They exist only to harass other players and drain the fun from a fantastic experience.
@Oumeic I'm all for anyone playing anything they want to. I can agree the heal stacking gets way too far, but the topic of ball groups isn't so much an issue with game design or balance as it is a playstyle or personal player choice.
@@TheLostSoulESO You are correct…THEY CHOOSE to exploit legitimate game mechanics like the heal stacking. THEY CHOOSE to harass and intimidate other players and farm them for AP.
@@Oumeic I mean, calling it a legitimate game mechanic and then saying that players are exploiting it is kind of decisively pointless, is it not? Ball groups aren't the only players who can healstack. They're just often the ones who have the MOST healstacking going on. As for them farming AP, I mean yeah. It's not really intimidation or harassing. I've played in ball groups, I've played solo bomber, ganker, 1vx, smallscale, dueler, all of the above really. It's just a different playstyle and some people like it or don't. I don't think it's something that's ever going to change from this point on. Regardless if it did, 12 players who are choosing to min-max and provide group utility sets and coordinate are 9.5/10 times going to run over a mob of people who don't coordinate. End of the day, you really got about three options when it comes to dealing with a ball group (assuming you're solo) 1. Try to bomb them. (Worse groups can be bombed by a solo, I know from experience!) 2. Join a ball group to GVG them or nuke them outta wherever they are. 3. Just leave the area the ballgroup is farming. You said this yourself, they're farming AP. Don't be the AP they farm. :D
@@TheLostSoulESO your attempt at justification are typical. Yes farming AP is the point of the game…increasing points for you alliance is the whole premise. How you choose to do it is the problem. I use the term “legitimate “ as the original intended function of the ability ie. Heal stacking…as a function of raiding in a group it is an essential function for the raid to remain upright. While a ball group in PvP is using it precisely for that function the problem is that it is against other players that have nowhere near the offensive or defensive numbers of an endgame raid boss…and yet a group of 12 players can run a zone as a full raid force with all the perks and have a clear advantage over disadvantaged players. Face it…ideal organization and group makeup is rarely in place to defend against these ball groups. Sure…they are not invincible… but these groups only exist because they know they have clear advantage…and knowing this they choose to continue this behavior because they enjoy seeing the futility of the opponent”s actions. They ruin the spirit of the game. As for your suggestion of just leaving is also a cowardly response…seriously…just walk away from a keep when a bell group shows up? The game is to defend the keep til all is lost. But these guys will kick open the doors and head straight to the walls and relentlessly mow down the opponents over and over and over until it becomes futile enough that the opponent logs or moves on…..and just to add insult to injury the ball group will leave the keep without even repairing gates or walls just to go where the opponent has now relocated to and do the same thing. I call it a stretch to even consider AP farming as their main purpose…it is a straight up power trip…the enjoyment in the abuse of other players. Like I said … ball groups are raid groups going into a zone with no raid mobs to fight. They wipe the floor with players because they know that the odds are there are no meaningful numbers of players with skill or abilities to take down their heal stacking asses. If they would use the zone wide buff in PvP to limit this stacking function then we would at least bring back the nice Zerg fights of old. Back when sheer numbers of fellow players were set against each other to the death…you know…strategy and fun…not 50 players against 12 and the 12 only give up when they are bored. Ball groups are selfish raid groups…in PvE they could be ended by a raid mechanism from the boss or a stage of the fight…in PvP there is no such mechanic…and without full time organized and skilled opposition any ball groups can harass players any time they wish. Unfortunately since there is no motivation from loot or progression for these ball groups…it only speaks to the low character of the individuals who lust for the power trip that killing defenseless player en mass repeatedly for the purpose of humiliation. Bragging you ran with ball groups before and defending them shows you are part of the problem…just like these worshipping content creators that use their platforms to promote the play style rather than call out the act as deplorable. Really…ball group shows up at your keep…so walk away…or become an ace bomber that fails 9 out of 10 bombs on a good day…oh and only gets real lucky against a crappy ball groups….typical flexing I would expect from a ball group worshipper.
ZOS nerfed all the burst sets. Caulurrions, Thunder caller, Infalible mage, All L&H attack sets were made to only work for PVE, nerfed jabs etc. They kept nerfing to please casuals and keep them from dying. Now everyone is struggling to kill.
Thing is, if you don't put in the work to survive, you're always gonna get nuked whether it's from a burst proc build, or a stat dense build. It doesn't matter. Realistically, there's always gonna be a complaint, however I think the tank meta has gone on far too long. We need something to change! And if people wanted to learn how to survive in pvp.. well, there are plenty of content creators (Like your's truly!) that have detailed guides about how to accomplish that.
@@TheLostSoulESO I agree you have to put in the work to survive. That’s what us competent players do. When we are getting shitted on, we work to make ourselves better so it doesn’t happen again. Casuals / incompetent players don’t want to put in the work to be better, they prefer the opposition is nerfed. Because they are the majority, ZOS complies opting to nerf the good players instead of helping the bad players get better. Remember update 35, when the game tanked? That’s what ZOS was attempting to do. They called it “Balance”
"Lower the ceiling, raise the floor". They've said that before. Now you have every arcanist build and their brother doing 100-140k DPS in trials and no other class is required for DPS. If you're really lazy, you just play a HA sorc. That kind of balance pulls over into PVP all as well. I picked up magsorc for the first time in years, and immediately started dominating even while running into walls and stuff like a doofus. It's all recorded and on the channel. :D
iv been building sets and experimenting on my own for a while, what iv learned is this is a game of stacking. passives, cp points, sets, glyph, attributes. all of this comes together to make your plays style. What the astute players have learned to do is stack so efficiently and perfectly that they are making some good tanky damage builds. You are seeing a lot of okensoul ring builds and other wacky stuff come out. I think the games builds are in a weird spot right now, but I kinda Like it.
I don't think the current meta is the "By All Means" worst it's ever been, but it's certainly not in a place I'd consider "good". A lot goes in to making a build and playstyle, but since the game was homogenized and ran through a spreadsheet, a lot of niche builds and otherwise interesting builds were removed.
I just want to know how i can have 5k+ w/s damage, 20k+ pen, 30k health, 30k resistance bump into someone in cyrodill and i cant even move their health bar yet they can kill me with 2-3 moves then it shows in the recap they actually hit me like 7 times with animations and attacks i didnt even see happen 😅 Bad connection?? Its very easy to see whirling blades so how the fuck did i die from it when it never happened on my screen 🤣
A lot of pvp comes down to timing burst combos, and stuff that like. Adding onto that, you factor in a lot of silly little stuff like a light attacking proccing enchantments, poisons on your weapon, proc set effects, so on and so forth! Lag is a bitch though, I can't count the times I have 10k+ HP left and then suddenly fall over dead without explanation!
Too much self heal + too many self buffs to manage + superior competition in form of standalone PvP games such as mobas and arena shooters. ESO pvp is simply not fun first and foremost and unbalanced distant second.
Disagree respectfully that it's not fun. If it wasn't, nobody would play it, nor would there be any content creators for it. As for the buffs, and self healing. Yeah, through the roof. It's why sets like Oakfather's Retribution as so strong, because every character will have a ba-jillion buffs! The combat is pretty unbalanced, but that's why we try to bring up the concerns!
11:00 yeah, but if you got rid of that you’d be indirectly further buffing sorc (which scales both offensively and defensively on max Mag alone). Just like how the vamp changes bringing DR down across the board were an indirect buff to sorc (which mitigates through shields & can now burst 100 to 0 even easier). I think it would be interesting to explore a more dynamic version of battle spirit that increase its healing debuff or increase dmg taken each time a player is hit. Like smash bros
@knowlen Yeah, for whatever odd reason sorc is one of the best outliers on mag scaling damage, and ZOS in their infinite balancing wisdom made it even easier to stack max mag for them by changing their passives. With a min maxed build, you push somewhere between 57-60k max mag and just delete everything and survive just fine! Overall, I like the vampire changes. However, there's so many ways to stack mitigation that it isn't really the end of the world, and if you could still sustain vampire, you might as well keep it for the extra little mitigation just because.
Zos is completely lazy. I understand that hardware upgrade is really up to the suits and not the devs, but item sets and class skill adjustment is the low hanging fruit that the devs can change at any patch/updates. So many out of date sets from bygone era could had just given a minor boost in stats to make it relevant again. Meta Sets like rallying Cry and Wretched vitality etc should be used as bench mark sets that other sets should be adjusted up to. Is not that hard like as the dev would just need to ask themselves or their player base when we add x to this set is it as stat dense as rallying Cry? Or is this trade off worth the benefit??? Eg new moon Acolyte. Lazy lazy lazy!!!
@jasonchui111 hardware upgrades that were either neglected or somehow delayed made such a ridiculous impact on performance that ZOS never wanted to admit for such a long time. I remember the maybe one or two months of no lag in ESO at all after the hardware swap. Yes, exactly this, though. There are so many sets in the game, and like 95% of them are objectively useless. You'll only ever use the meta sets, and there's no reason to touch anything else anymore. You at least had the pre homogenized state of the game to argue very specific choices like the silks of the sun set buffing fire damage on dark elf dragonknights that used to get 7% more fire damage. All those kinds of neat niche choices got washed down the drain, and sets that fit those niches fell into obscurity.
Im just returning to the game after about a 3 year hiatus and having a rough time. Thanks for this enlightening video. Theres been alot of changes im still learning about.
Thanks for watching the video! I hope you're enjoying what you do get to play even through the rough patches! The combat has all the potential, I just think it's being balanced in all the wrong ways.
I think a big part of the possibility to build tanky yet have a lot of damage is sets with free damage procs. When old ones like Caluurion get nerfed, new ones like Tarnished Nightmare get added, and people crutch on that for a year or 2. It's always sets like this that lead to these autopilot builds that can just tank until they have 500 Balorgh and then unleash like 2-3 damage procs on people in quick succession. When some players initially responded positively to the no-proc ruleset (which is now dead again), I think 95% of that was down to them being tired of free damage procs that allowed players to build large amounts of burst damage without sacrificing much in the way of survivability. The bigger issue is that PVE and PVP balancing have still not been separated. There's probably a reason for that, as doing so would flood the servers with a lot of extra calculations, but it's what's led to some classes being king in one game mode while being useless in the other (think Wardens, which are OP in PVP group play as damage dealers, but are barely used in PVE atm). Until this is solved, anything resembling a sense of balance will be hard to achieve.
@Degonyte I agree with this in large part. Damage procs absolutely let people build tanky, and as I said, giving players a free 1000 weapon and spell damage as a baseline contributes heavily as to why proc sets are so prevalent in that regard. If you took away that free baseline damage, most of those sets would (likely) see a drastic reduction in usage because they would just hit way weaker by default. Tarnished Nightmare is a newer offender of being the meta bandwagon everyone hops on. You can't go into cyrodiil without having your ears destroyed by shattered glass. I don't think the damage from the set is overtuned personally, but that sound effect drives me insane. It's way too loud. As for no proc, I 100% agree with you. Many years ago, when my partner and I ran a guild, we mained the Ravenwatch campaign long before it was no proc. After a while, I personally switched to Gray Host simply because Raven was always dead. No point in playing an unpopulated campaign. For separating pvp and pve? I agree. Always should have been done, and it's been the bane of balance at all times. Battle spirit was supposed to help with that to some extent, but I think going forward in 2024 it needs further review to help deal with the never ending tank meta.
As you had mentioned with Wardens, it's actually the same ordeal with nightblades! They're everywhere in pvp, but rarely in trial dps for example! Why push all the complicated button combos when you can just no-thought arcanist beam everything in pveland?
@@198585Joker yep, I was a dk main forever. That change was a step into the grave for dk identity. Sword/shield ult also did the same thing, but they nerfed the damage of it so hard.
i do not even mind the new skill, it's the current animation I dislike, I used to flap about all the time just for fun, but now it looks like a suspended nutshell
Great video bro ! I Think your idea to reduce major brutaly and sorcery bonus is really good. And yeah, the main problem is that no class should have it all : high dmg, tankyness/healing, sustain, mobility ! Sorc and NB got it all. Strange to let that happening.
I will definitely check out those videos and see if I can't come up with something! It's always good to hear other people's POV on how all these balancing issues should get addressed
People who “meta hopped” over to magsorc get crushed by people who mained magsorc through the dark times. that being said… wish they buffed critsurge healing instead of adding a heal to ward. It was just a lazy buff. Now you have trash magsorcs just spamming ward and it’s annoying lol.
I've been playing magsorc for years through thick and thin and well it does finally feel good to be on par with the best of them class wise I will admit surviving some of the things I have using Ward it's just kind of disgusting. I'm in 5 pieces of light armor sub 22k resistance fully buffed
I think pvp should cap health at 30k. Id even argue 25k tbh It would help improve the time to kill dilemma I can burst 40k tanks to abot 10k to 15k hp but then they heal back up in 1 hp based burst heal or 3 friends cross healing Reducing hp will help to put down tanks and will even nerf ball groups who rely on 40k+ hp tanks and healers
If there was a health cap, oneshots would become a lot more prevalent because of how high damage is right now. So to lower health pools, damage has to be lowered in sync. My thought anyway!
@@sk8legendz They don’t need to cap health. They need to reinstate a lot of the build opportunities they took away. Capping health is a nerf. We don’t need nerfs. We need buffs. Buff sets!
@@skyhigh00001 Sounds like you get carried by 40k health builds Sorry you suck at this game bro. But don't worry, zenimax Is gonna make more things to hold your hand through it. Because little babies like you like to cry
I main magsorc since the beginning. Im pretty much death incarnate in bgs. I 1vX people all the time. Timing is key. LoS and mobility. Understanding of stats. These things go a long way.
@@DoyouknowtheHweii very true, plar is amazing people just think it’s bad cuz they don’t spec into the right things, like I made a plar recently with 15k pen 8k avg wpn and spell and 30k resists, it’s a great class
I feel when they brought the hybridzation into the game it took away alot of class identity pretty much now every class wears the same sets and same skills and then you have all these procs sets that they bring out which has created 40k health bomb ball groups with insane cross healing, maybe for a pvp perspective add group scaling, the larger the group you're in you lose a certain amount of weapon and spell damage and resistance
i thought about it often why dont they add Something like double skaling where u have to spec into offensive recources and also wep. dmg to get the same numbers so that ppl stop putting all points into hp. for example unneed like 25-30k max stam and also something like 5,5k-6k wep dmg to get the same numbers as only weapon dmg same with making healing dependend on both offensive stats. In addition to that why not further use a debuff like 10% dmg reduction(maybe scaling) for over 20k base res up to 30k and add bonus dmg the lower the armor vallue. I rly dislike that u can spec into hp wep dmg and get basically everything but if u fight someone using the same noone dies anymore.
The reason people dump all into HP now days versus mag and stam (like they used to) is because ZOS granted a baseline 1k weapon and spell damage. Meaning people no longer had to use as much attribute points into resources to get as much damage as they used to. But yeah, some sort of scaling, probably built into battle spirit would be my go to.
Racial passives should reflect playstyle so a Breton with x Health gets this bonus at lvl 15 where a Mag dumped Breton would get x bonus. Gotta rework the sorc shield and heal, etc. I get hit by ranged attacks even when using a shade idk about you guys,
I love this video! I came back to the game about 3 months ago and play an Arcanist main with a bow and Oakensoul and I do just OK.. but when 90% of BG's and Cyrodil are Nigthblades and Sorcs just abusing the hell out of their overpowered classes in PvP I tend to only do the daily BG once for the boosted XP and then just run in groups in Cyrodil. PvP is just no fun otherwise for me when it could be so much better!
Yep, I love the fact that you can play what you want to play, and still get some results, but the balance means that other classes are just de facto better than yours more often than not.
They just need to Nerf heal stacking. 5-6 of the same heal on 1 person and they can tank 2 dawnbreakers to the face and heal through it. It’s just bullshit. Also they nerf the hell out of every tank killing set so everyone built 35-40k hp and ball grouped up. Siege isn’t even deadly anymore.
is easy to solve this: select a role like in dungeon. you are a support? heal and shield normal, damage and resistances/hp halved you are a tank? resistances/hp normal, damage and shield/heal halved you are a damage dealer? damage normal, heal/shield and resistances/hp halved there you would have to focus on one role, as the problem is that they made solo countent possible (even in vet) being a healer, a dd and a tank in 1 character and that transfer to pvp making pvp offtank vs offtank only
Kind of like a Overwatch 2 style MOBA balancing? I could understand that, yeah. However I don't think it'd sit well with people when ZOS's key attraction is "play how you want"
i agree in most parts but olso litle bit disagree, balance from the classes want fixed since jears i know, but what makes is hard is the hybritisation of every class and the strong cross healing that eill be just used by most guilds in pvp. the class identity just not exist for a long time now. i just would like to see to remove the hybritysation olso the cross healing and like to have the classic ting fore a real role to use some classes like from a class to be a tank next to be just an dd and last to be just a healer. eaven big guild on pvp would have a competition to use and balance it inside a group. i´m running right now a bomber warden and not realy need to care about enything while running against faction stack ore coordinated bomb groups and dont care about my healing while i running with just some randomes non group players corse of the cross healing and run just solo corse of it. for me it will be just ok if there would be no hybritynisation and again cklass itantiny to helaer tank ore dd with the cross healing but healers should be real healers with the most healing and burst healing and cross healing just a litle bit help and not more. gratings from pc eu uwu pvp cyro^^ have olso respect for us cyro players you have it even worse corse of performence on your servers
Je pense qu'aux niveaux de jeu les plus élevés, ils pourraient faire un meilleur travail. Cependant, ce n’est pas aussi grave que dans certains correctifs. Je pense qu'un peu plus d'ajustements des classes les plus faibles pour les amener à la hauteur de choses comme la lame nocturne ou le sorcier serait une bonne chose à faire. (Désolé pour une mauvaise traduction ! J'ai utilisé Google Translate car je ne parle pas français !) ❤
ESO pvp has steadily gotten worse every year. Every update, for about 6 years straight Anyone who still takes the game serious is either a new and incompetent player, or an old player that outlasted all the sweats and can finally stick their chest out. As long as they continue adding content and stress to these old servers, Lag will get worse and combat will continue to slow down in order to compensate.
I feel that about old players here.. I sometimes bring out my beta pet now and then :D. But yes, there's always more server stress and very rarely an update on server performance.
@@Sarevoky I don't think so. Organized group play is always going to be stronger, and those players are going to choose to play regardless of the changes the developers make.
Bgs need nerfed. There's no point in allowing 12 healers stack heals on 4 dps, while they all have 35k health and 9k dmg. All just to burst down single target average players, or bomb multiple average players with their proc sets hitting harder than their actual skills.
Few immediate fixes: Tarnished nightmare needs to have some sort of telegraph versus instant damage The latency in larger scale fights is absolutely obscene, which could be fixed by disabling outfits, costumes, certain textures, etc etc with battle spirit passive/etc. I would also go in: Battle spirit would get an immediate 30% damage increase Leave the healing and health scaling issues alone for now Movement speed penalties(movement speed should scale like basically everything else, with higher diminishing return values the deeper you're applying the buffs) in no way should i be able to use snow treaders with 200% walk speed 😂(100% possible fyi, lol)
Not all procs sets have telegraphs and to me, the damage from this set isn't too bad. The sound is arguably more damaging than the set itself, lol. I could give or take tarnished as balanced. It's just the flavor of the year and will change with the next big proc set. If raising damage done, healing could be left alone for sure, otherwise lowering healing done and leaving damage as is, another possibility. Movement speed penalties could be good, but it'd only really effect ballgroups or people stacking obnoxious amounts of speed. (Easily done on Nightblade, for instance.)
@TheLostSoulESO lol I built a troll warden at 200% walk speed that's nearly unkillable in snow treaders that HoT stacks like a fiend as well 😅 The sounds for tarnished is obnoxious.... I agree there.
Yep, that sort of build is a specialty for ballgroups. 3 swift, major and minor expedition, celerity cp, even with snow treaders on you just go zoom all the time. :D
I mean I would be simplifying this a bit, The main issue is the constant overlooking of PvP content in favour of PvE from ZoS. Good burst sets get nerfed way too regularly while sustain and healing has only gotten stronger each patch. On the flip side classes get buffed/ nerfed frequently to balance PvE but never take into account the consequences of how strong or weak that class will be in PvP. You can’t as a developer favour certain content over other areas of your game simply because more people play casual PvE? Especially if your combat system between PvE and PvP are heavily linked and influence each other greatly.
While I agree with most of what you say here, I can't exactly, 100% say they overlook the consequences. I would more likely say that ZOS either doesn't understand the implications of some of their changes, or at the very least is conceptually ignorant to the meta/how people en masse play PVP.
@@TheLostSoulESO Ignorance is a good word to use! I definitely think that ZoS’s pure focus is on where the money is right? I don’t think it’s incompetence because they clearly know how to make a great game! But more ignorance like you say to the lack of care and respect PvP content has had compared to PvE. I’m not sure about numbers but I assume more people play PvE than PvP? so its ZoS making changes to benefit the many (casual) players out there rather than spending time/resources on parts of their game where the community is a minority.
Absolutely more people play PVE than PVP and I respect that, I once was one of those players, when beta released that thought ESO Was "Skyrim Online". Years later, I prefer PVP to doing Trials/Dungeons, but I do enjoy my questing. I think there is some level of desire the developers might have to actually balance the game's PVP. I'm just not fully confident that they've got a solution, or understand what the problems initially are.
Champion Points should not exist in PvP in general, the amount of sustain and tankiness you can achive with them is so busted. Battlegrounds has the best ruleset and balance eso pvp has to offer. Sure there are bonker builds but most have to invest in some kind of extra sustain or tankiness and the mmr based matchmaking is a good thing imo. Playing in the upper end of the matchmaking is really enjoyable when people actually understand the game and use builds for pvp. There are rarely matches where you have one player solo carry the round. As for cyro.. well either you ballgroup, gank or bomb not much space to be a brawler. I do belive warden has to be the best counter to most of the meta slave builds.. especially in bgs.. the amount of pressence a good warden(fighter not healer) player has in bgs is really really noteable
@tiramisu8924 I used to play no cp Battlegrounds and cyrodiil exclusively until the no cp campaign died on pcna. It was more balanced yes, but unfortunately the game is built around having champion points and the majority of pop prefers the cp campaign. I learned to live with that, and now days I don't think it's the most terrible thing.Sure, it helps patch holes in builds, but it doesn't make a bad build good in any case. My thought anyway.
@sidwie302 guard negates always seek to lock on to me at the worst moments! XD Nightcapping for PCNA isn't something of a balance issue unfortunately, people playing the game in other timezones and countries have all the right to play as they like to. It does make the campaign a bit boring (because they mostly all seem to choose ep on pcna/gh) but what can zos realistically do about that? Would love to see Golden get some updates! I barely buy anything from it anymore. Rarely picking up a monster set or something I don't have for whatever reason. A crossheal reduction or something could be good! Maybe scaling by how many instances of a skill you have running on you. (Say you have 8 vigors running on you, each one is reduced by 5%)
Premade groups premades have ruined wow pvp in its latest expansion and zos is intent on letting 4v4 premades destroy pugs in 8v8 bgs. Zos is intentionally letting premades vs pugs in 8v8 and it will destroy bgs.
For me its get rid of (one-shot meta). Not just in pvp but pve as well. Miss one mechanic dead in pve. I was in a dungeon today blocked when I should have dodged everyone wiped. To many ganker builds in cyrodiil. I was one shot at 40k hp and max resist. That should not be ok. Also I've seen dps self heal more then my healer character. Thats also bs. I'd say lower self sustainability marking healer traits needed. Make armor worth something again. Theirs no such thing as a tank in eso just block and dodge roll or dead.
You can never get rid of the one shot meta in PVP for a few reasons, namely damage just being that high. If some nerf to player tankiness happens (and should happen) one shots will be more prevalent. At least where they are right now, most people aren't dying to a 40k + DK Heavy Attack oneshot. I don't PVE much in ESO anymore, many people I've been close to over the last many years can attest to the fact that it literally (I wish I was joking) puts me to sleep. Face to keyboard :D. Yep, DPS can heal at times heal more than a full spec healer BECAUSE of how healing scales with highest damage stats (or in some cases, max HP). Not great balancing. And yeah, there are no true PVP tanks any more. Used to be a good pure tank build was 100% unkillable without the entire server sieging/negating that player. Now a handful of people can take down a pvp "tank" with a little coordination.
@@TheLostSoulESO i want armor buffed. Not nerf. Also its the stupid archer night blades. That skill relentless focus. It seems to just bypass all armor. I know this because. I myself went and tested on my trash character. Can confirm one shot with blue gear. No min max
I will agree relentless focus is wildly OP. It's a skill that does more damage than some ultimates in some cases. In my time playing NB, the highest relentless I hit on someone was a 28k crit.
As someone who is a casual in this game compared other MMOs I play like Warframe, The pvp needs work. ZOS loves money and casual people who drop a quick milli on the crown store for a really ugly skin. The pvp aspect changes, I assume, are to keep most whales happy instead of looking at the real issues with stats, hp, dmg, etc. The people that pay most for this game complain about damage? ZOS makes it so everyone has giga HP. It’s unfortunate and maybe Im just new and wrong, but this is what I notice from the monetization in the game, and how that affects multiple aspects differently. Im also never paying 140.00 USD a year to RENT a game I payed FULL PRICE FOR. Screw ESO Plus. ZOS has a lot to fix before it’s even worth it to consider. A broken game with a monthly subscription is just so gross. Especially when they hide pvp effective skill lines behind DLC. Thats so trashy. Jewelry crafting, Psyjic Order and Scribing? Sorry thatll be 100 bucks one time purchase or outrageous monthly subscription on top of your console’s online subscription in a game you already paid for, just to use things that should be available to everyone. DLC should just be new areas to explore, outfits, sets, dungeons, adventures, etc. Not essentially NECESSARY new game mechanics someone needs to use in PvP or else they immediately have a disadvantage. Its too late for that to change tho. Thats also an issue. That not everyone in PvP has access to the same things. Its not that they havent unlocked it, its that they havent spent real money on it yet. All of these things and more are why PvP isnt great right now.
100% with you on this one. In retrospect, it's not something you often thing about until you don't have those dlc. Until you don't have the skill lines, until you don't have xyz. It used to be a bit different up until they added mythic items. I think that was the biggest turning point in DLC vs NO DLC power. Once upon a time a competent player with no DLC still could put up their own. Now? Not gonna happen. Game is heavily monetized, bragging about making a lifetime amount over 2 BILLION dollars and we get some of this quality of server performance and balance? Wild.
@@TheLostSoulESO I forgot to even mention Transmuting too. My stickerbook is visual only! I literally have to delete Geodes from my inventory because I have 500 and cannot use a single one. That and the Craft bag nonsense. Its so ridiculous you have to pay 2-3 times the base price to interact with the game and rest of the community in a meaningful way. Games like these are akin to auctions. It becomes “who pays more wins” and that’s unacceptable
@@shieldmaiden101 there are people who make their game work without the craft bag, without the extra housing and bank space, and so on. I really don't know how anyone does that without going insane
@@TheLostSoulESO Ive been trying it lol. My first crafting character atm. I have to be very particular and consistent of the things I put away in my bank and storage. Use all of my gold on Bag space and Bank space and constantly yet unfortunately be selling materials I dont plan to use immediately for more gold. After every few dungeon runs I do laps around Mournhold and empty my inventory. Rinse and repeat all day. I dont want to do end game stuff until I can make my own strong gear. And hopefully profit from making others gear. Im also a Tank. “Get hit, pick up stuff, leave” has been my journey for about a week now. I do have some DLC tho just not ESO or things like Summerset, because when I chose the DLC, I didnt think there were other ones that were necessary.
thing is the skills are giving WAY TOO MUCH nowadays, look at arcanist tentacle, damage, execute, heal, generates crux .. characters should be begging for passives and buffs from allies and sets not have access to a shitload of them that easily
This exactly. I've said this privately a few times, the modern state of combat makes it entirely possible to stack as many buffs and debuffs into one build with no real drawback. Nightblade is extremely guilty of this, especially if you get down into nitty gritty minmaxing
@@Katie-vv6ff high hp is part of the problem, but nerfing hp pools without changing damage, healing, or mitigation values won't do enough to change the meta imo
That'd only really nerf ball groups, who would just get much higher healing then from speccing into extra resources instead of HP. I don't think high HP is the issue itself, but just a byproduct of the balancing issues. Back before a lot of the wacky ZOS decisions were made, 30-33k HP made you a tank. Nowdays, 30k is often low unless you're a bomber or ganker.
@TheLostSoulESO I'd take more heals > max hp builds, it just takes all the fun out of the game when I wear 3 damage sets and line up a perfect burst on some dude just to only get them to 50% hp, it feels like 40% of ppl in cyro are literally just unkillable without cheese sets on
@TheLostSoulESO except my burst would kill people before they got the heals off, the problem is rn I don't even get the chance to use my execute and I'm using stuhn/clever/balorgh 3 dmg sets still doesn't kill ppl
Yeah I agree at that much. 3 dmg sets and you can't kill some people! But if healing was increased, any competent player would be rolling their heal over times anyway. Then a burst heal would be even stronger than they are now.
@@joshuapetrak-swann5307 I know the skill was very strong for small group or solo wardens. I've heard most of them don't like that nerf. Yet sorc can have a giant shield that burst heals them. Because balance! :P
i can not even call ESO a PVP game when you have one shot builds or ball grps with rush of agony pulling you from 50M to kill you before you even get pulled near them that is mobile 1 click gaming. Tons of CCs and everyone is exploiting the non existent CC immunity. Server lag needs a nerf. staying quiet about all the ways you can exploit bugs and broken mechanics is in my mind what is killing the game. Vet players exploiting new players til they quit.
You're gonna have 1 shots or good 1 shot combo players in many pvp games. It's not something new in that regard, and the easiest way to deal with ballgroups solo is just to avoid them. You'll need to team up with people to deal with that, and unfortunately the deal with cc immunity is in those giant fights, it's easy to keep a high uptime on it between immovable potions, snow treaders mythic keeping snares off of you, and people spamming every cc imaginable with no burst following it up, just to be disruptive. Definitely nerf server lag! It sucks hardcore. Pressing a button 6 times before the ability casts. But I don't think veteran players in mass are "exploting" mechanics.
I think the main issue is PvP and PvE aren't balanced separately. sets fight for you and proc sets are op. pvp was lot more fun when the best thing to do was to spec into straight damage and u can die in seconds and kill people in seconds.
@@DR-nh2kh Proc sets are great. They make build crafting much more satisfying. Without them it’ll just be a numbers game. And the person with the bigger number will Always win.
ZOS nerfed everything to make the pvp not fair anymore which makes pvp hard to compete specially with werewolf because werewolf don't have nothing in the werewolf skillline to get negative effects off you an the heavy attacks are very slow to get in on someone sadly an the leap ability needs to be switched to a bite attack that do 10% more damage because the leap attack has a bug where u can't leap on your opponent for what ever reason. ZENIMAX can't see they problems but others see them. Heavy need to be faster in light attacks an switched leap attack for a bite attack that do bleeding damage over time to make where better. Light attacks should do 5% of bleeding damage done an with the bite that should stack up to 15% bleeding damage done on werewolf skillline. Werewolf needs that extra pressure because of pvp now. We struggle with execution when try kill a players that pop a damage shield more often at low Hp to keep u struggling to finish.
@RubyLoudLaughterGaming I'll be honest when I see a werewolf in pvp they instantly die or have 45-50k hp and have no chance of killing me alone, so I tend to just ignore them. I wish it was a valid playstyle again.
Nah, not even. I can hop on my magsorc, which I barely play. 5 pc wretched, 5 pc crafty, DDF, mighty chudan and just go nuke people and never die. It's stupid balance. and I say this as someone who played a ton of ratblade. I've a video up making fun of how easy it is, where I show myself stumbling around and still nuking people and rarely dying.
that is outright wrong, Magsorcs have sustain burst mobility anit-burst anit-preassure (hardend) etc etc and ive seen good magsorcs on not wretched literally skinning people its definitly possible but people take the lazy way out with wretched and you forgot rallyingcry which is what most run in combo with deathdealer
Magsorc players usally suck ass at this game which is the only thing keeping sorcs from being completely dominant. Sorc beats everything. None of the classes you mentioned can keep up with a sorc running a burst combo that is up every 4 seconds, 15k shields and always CCs you and is at a distance with streak. Get good and you will never lose.
Anything that takes skill away from a pvp environment and carries players is what ruins pvp any og knows pvp was at a all time high back the game was newer because most ran things like hundings. Now it's all cheese
@@ethanward3912 Half and half agree. I don't like all the proc set cheese. But it's not the answer, otherwise Ravenwatch no proc would have had players, and everyone knows (At least, PCNA) that Ravenwatch was a dead campaign for too long.
DK was best for years, necro harmony, this is the most balanced in years. Sorc is good to curse endless then stun without that stun sorc is ok a lucky procced frag is the usual decider. For nb running detect is a hard counter against them. From my 10 years of PvP the best ball groups that stay in keeps and farm the faction for an hour or more are mostly wardens northern storm. I can run a warden and the very best players that play nightblade and sorc usually give up or need a friend or two to burst me or others down. React faster is probably the best nightblade in the game on NA PC. I have watched him give up on templars and wardens and DKs and move on to squishyer targets. I just think good players can make any class work and bad players can’t. I run a VD plaque break sorc in group. It can’t take a lot of punishment. One DK leap and my shield is gone. That said I have popped a sword shield ult and hey Jensen a very good sorc fragged himself in the face and one shotted himself.
For sure you can make any class work. I've gotten to that point where I just want to play my necro and that's where I am these days. The meta classes change hands all the time and that's just the nature of PVP. I just wish classes were more balanced as a baseline so that the argument never becomes "this class is abjectly the best and if you dont play it you're always statistically weaker across the board"
@@TheLostSoulESO yes lol. The game is dying. The reason cod and other games are so successful is their simplicity. Pick a weapon and shoot/slash. Skill in movement, strategy and team work. Eso avg player base has dropped to 2018 levels 3months in a row.
Oh look - another PvP'r whining about not being able to stomp all the casuals (the majority of ESO playerbase) as fast as he thinks he should be able to. Whaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
I'm sorry but NO! This is dumb. Let me translate this video in an easy sentence. I refuse to do research and grind out gear for the content I wish to run. You need to find a good build and practice your rotation. TWO BAR rotation. If you refuse to do that then you aren't going to do well. Why ask or request that they ruin the game for everyone else? LEARN TO PLAY. That's not being rude, good players have grinded this game and learned what to do to be good. They don't have one gear item and 1 skill, they have gear sets, golded out, skill lines grinded out, build tailored to the content, etc. They have worked hard. This is the equivalent to saying I don't want to get better, I just want the game dumbed down. Screw that. Get better.
@skyhigh00001 Saying this video is an L2P issue suggests to me you haven't watched it at all. I have over 10k hours in ESO since the beta, I've played pvp for a long time and I will not go egotistical and call myself the GOAT, but I do think I'm competent enough to contend with 95% of players. I don't do one bar builds. I grind out dungeon and trial gear if it's needed for pvp content. I put in my time and effort. The video is about the balancing changes the developers at ZOS have made over the years. In my opinion, their decisions have made the QoL of pvp go downwards. Builds used to be more diverse, and you actually had to put much more thought into something.
I've really really tried to give this game a good shake but holy crap the eso pvp is probably the worst pvp of any mmo I've ever played. I get that a lot of it is just time and experience but holy shit is it so non-new player friendly. I've dumped 100+ hours in this game and if you're not in an experienced premade you might as well not bother. Truly hot garbage as it's so hard for non-vets to actually compete.
50% agree here. I can't say it's the worst I've ever (personally) played, but it isn't very new player friendly. It takes a lot to get into, and takes a lot more losing (in the process of 'gitting gud') than a lot of people want to deal with.
@@TheLostSoulESO My issues is that as someone who really really really tried to get into it starting a few months ago it's felt like a slog and a chore and almost never fun. I understand grinding gear and getting the right set of gear, I understand getting enough skill points to be fully buffed and even building into meta, but that's really hard because there's just so many skills which adds another layer of complication compared to most mmo's for their pvp. Then tie in weaving, a massive champion level slog (granted not for bg's), and animation cancelling and it's just to much work to just be competitive. I get it's probably fun for the long time vets but this is the kind of thing that kills your pvp scene I also think the recent change from 3 teams to two as awful because it's only exasperated the feeling of being utterly stomped by a premade when before you could kind of have two loosing teams focus more of their aggression on the one team running away with it.
@DarkBunnyLord I hear you. I'm in the absolute same boat. I hate grinding characters. I've had one of each class for years upon years and still don't have all the guild stuff always unlocked, or crafting, or something. I don't like to grind, I like to play my game and have fun. It's one reason I don't play a ton of eso anymore (after 10k+ hours since beta) ESO combat can be really unique and fun when it's going good, but the grinding and balance is easily a huge turn off.
Pvp will never be fun, its just the truth. You can't enjoy something that's not apm skill based. You would need to take all healing all shields and all set bonuses away including traits. Then people would probably have fun.
I would argue it can be fun (based on an individual's definition), but it will never be balanced, or maybe well balanced. I think the combat system is unique, but there's just too many flat statistical differences one way or another.
@@TheLostSoulESO i actually like pvp in most games, just not eso. most games followed the balance ground. The more resistance and health you have the less damage with no penetration requirements. Less tanky more damage. However that doesn't apply to eso in any concept. Being able to tank and do damage kills many many games. Its actually better to have fast ttk. More average players enjoy it.
I agree, I rather have a faster TTK, but my idea is simply that the premise of ESO PVP is fun. The current balance and the high TTK is not fun, but the game itself has the potential 100%, IMO.
Get rid of bs proc sets again. Keep stat based sets so we can go back to needing skill to kill your opponents. Fkin tank proc meta it the worst load of newbie crap
@@RaiRyu292agree... The main point is that some guys are op and others are not... Nothing woke here... I mean... Bethesda has been awake since forever but...
I like pvp just how it is... And I know the grievances with NBs and in a small way I guess it makes sense, but every class has its strong points and not every NB plays the same identical magblade setup... Anyone who knows my Peekaboo Pig toon knows that it can burst like crazy, but they also know It's not the same ole setup and can easily be killed as long as you're paying attention... I really don't understand why everyone plays the same builds but they do and that's not the game, it's the people playing it... They make the decision to copy and paste... The game itself offers a ridiculous amount of variety that's effective but nobody takes the time to play around with alterations... I think every class has its undeniable perks and I could lay out plenty of examples but I'll only say this... Dks can survive almost anything as long as they don't lose aggression, sorcs can survive almost anything if they keep their shield refreshed and stay mobile, wardens can survive anything as long as they use the right combo of morphs, arcs can survive anything as long as they take the time to keep their buffs going, NBs can survive if they remain elusive, Templar can survive anything as long as they use their heals, and necro can survive anything because necros, as players, are THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE GAME... Many people would disagree, especially with the last one but all you have to do is pay attention... If you take a necro main and understand what it takes to maintain their buffs and debuffs, it's undeniable that they're the best overall ESO players, which really stands out when they setup literally any other class... Avidnecro, on Xbox NA, is a prime example of this... Put that dude on a sorc or nb and it's lights out for almost anyone because he's so use to maintaining the hardest class to maintain... In the end, it's the PLAYERS that make or break the pvp climate... The game just offers choices, it's the players that choose the same small selection of choices... That's why I setup so many different toons... Just to play in low mmr for a while where there's still diversity because the players aren't meta humping clones... If people were actually here to HAVE FUN instead of to do MATH EQUATIONS, the game would be perfectly balanced... I think most of what people call unbalanced is just the frustration that comes from death... Just adjust your playstyle a hair and everything smooths right out... I know first hand because I've had to change mine a billion times to compensate for changes... Two years ago, everyone didn't stand in a fireworks display of green and red circles with radiating aoe and hots, but now they do... It's just evolution and you just have to evolve... If the game were "balanced", it would become stagnant and then we'd all be out of our favorite addiction... The players hold the "balance" in their hands... Nothing in nature is equal, and as soon as something can take the upper hand, it will... There's no reason to expect a video game to be different... Balance doesn't mean equality and I think that equality is what most people mean when they say balance... The game is fine how it is... And was... And will be... That's all just my opinion of course...
Mostly, people build a lot of the "same" characters to engage in the META, most commonly known as "Most Effective Tactics Available". When it comes down to the pure sweatlords in the game, the differences between mathematical and systemic class balance can easily be exemplified. As a casual player, as an average player, as someone who is worse than average, it does not matter what class you play, because these changes are MOST noticeable among the top performance and highest levels of understanding about game mechanics. That being said, there are absolutely, undoubtedly, without question 100% amazing players for each class, as you named Avid Necro as one of the GOATs for Necro (and I agree!), but when it comes down to how well performing the class is against other classes, there is just a clear power discrepancy between something like Necromancer versus a DK, or a Nightblade right now. I am all for classes each having their individual thing, as I mentioned in class identity. Unfortunately, class identity has been gutted over there years so now all you have is a homogenized "this class is a fire/poison skin, and this class is a lightning skin" because they all do the same ( or similar!) damage due to spreadsheet balancing. The root of the balance issue is simply "Can you put a really good necromancer player in a duel with a similarly skilled sorcerer or nightblade player?" The answer on PCNA is that the Sorc or NB will hands down win 9/10 times. The class is just objectively, and mathematically stronger right now. It isn't impossible for the necromancer to win, mind you, but that they have to try objectively 3x harder because of how the class is currently balanced. And that is what frustrates a lot of people. Why should they try 3x harder if they can also meta hump? If you're an average or above skilled player, why try harder? Play the meta class and reap the benefits of the abjectly poor spreadsheet balancing. I posted a video where I haven't played magsorc in YEARS, and even while noobing around (streaking into walls, missing combos, ETC) I was still NUKING people.
I get your point from the dueling perspective, for sure... I honestly hadn't even thought of that... So, this video is really for the highest level of players, where the smallest details actually matter... I'm a die hard player but I'm not high level in that way... I just approach the game with a sense of enjoyment that I keep no matter what... That's why I never get upset and am always nice to everyone... No emotions connected... I don't think many people like me but I'm not going anywhere because I sincerely love this game's pvp and the players... I really appreciate your content and definitely appreciate your thorough response... I like when people take the time to help others grasp new perspectives... That's rad of you... Gg, dude...
@devilpig6 I'm glad you're enjoying it and able to learn something! Yeah, the general idea (that I support) from zos is to make all classes accessible to players so anyone can play how they want. That's absolutely cool, but the problem with how they went about it is just that all the classes do not have equal footing, which leads to greater power discrepancies when you start looking into it! For one example, until this very last patch, necromancer had no class source of major brutality/sorcery or no source of major prophecy/savagery! Meaning that necromancer was THE ONLY(!) class in the game that was required to source very common buffs from weapon or guild skill lines. Those sorts of things become a huge issue in class balance, for example.
@TheLostSoulESO I agree. Putting major wep spell on the skeleton mage was so stupid it definitely needs work. Have you tested max stats? It buffs damage by a lot.
Still not going to use the skeleton unless I'm roleplaying as a zerg surfer. Rally/Forward Momentum or Degeneration are just better skills. The DMG on the skeleton is so minimal it's not even worth slotting for PVP. I've seen maybe one person in PCNA Gray Host/ Battlegrounds running it. Literally, only one. As for max stats, yeah. I play around with my builds a lot. I don't personally run many proc sets anymore outside of vicious death, plaguebreak, and dark convergence (for obvious bomber reasons!). Prefer to play stat based consistent builds, myself. I can play proc builds and hp stackers now and then, but its just not as fun for me.
What about the players in BGs that are impossible to kill and shred your healthbar in a matter of seconds
Well, they're first and foremost, probably experienced players who've had to try and fail a lot to get to where they were. Secondly, the balance of the game can basically bump up a good player to a really good performer on the meta build for the strongest classes (Say Sorc, or NB).
If you'd like to learn more about how to survive like that, and how to build those kind of builds, I have a full playlist of ESO PVP explanations. I cover builds, playstyles, survival, and more!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
40k Health tank players who kill you faster than average dps and put them in a group of 4 and they are unkillable no matter the siege.
@BLVCKSCORP not unkillable but ridiculously difficult, especially if they know how to play! Balance!
I don't want to see the devs harassed either, but I do hold them as the party most responsible for the state of PvP. Bottom line: why should players care when ZOS clearly doesn't?
Yes, this is true. I don't agree with their design and balance philosphies and I'm not quite sure what idea they're really trying to go for. This "spreadsheet balancing" has not worked, and will not work, because the game dynamics and world just don't make sense for that.
But if nobody talks about it, then they might just assume everything is fine, or continue to balance things this way thinking nobody is vocally opposed to it. It might not change anything to make this video, but at least I can speak my piece!
@@TheLostSoulESOSpreadsheet balancing has succeeded as intended: to make the devs job easier. The price is the loss of something which doesn't appear in the dps numbers: class identity and fun.
@samuraichicken2315 yep, that's hitting the nail on the head. Too many homogenized numbers. All classes are at this point is "pick your visual flavor"
Bombers and gankers are fine with me…always have been. What drove me from playing the game were the ball groups and the overall worship they were receiving from players and content creators. The heal stacking is an exploit as far as I am concerned. Any person or groups of people using a legitimate ability or function of the game in a manner not consistent with its intended use is an exploitation of the ability. All the developers would have to do is place limits on heal stacking in PvP. Yes…these groups will always look for some or another way to continue their carnage, but at least they would be disruptable. These ball groups do not exist to take keeps or outposts. They exist to farm AP once they crack open the doors. They exist only to harass other players and drain the fun from a fantastic experience.
@Oumeic I'm all for anyone playing anything they want to. I can agree the heal stacking gets way too far, but the topic of ball groups isn't so much an issue with game design or balance as it is a playstyle or personal player choice.
@@TheLostSoulESO You are correct…THEY CHOOSE to exploit legitimate game mechanics like the heal stacking. THEY CHOOSE to harass and intimidate other players and farm them for AP.
Checkmate!
@@Oumeic I mean, calling it a legitimate game mechanic and then saying that players are exploiting it is kind of decisively pointless, is it not?
Ball groups aren't the only players who can healstack. They're just often the ones who have the MOST healstacking going on. As for them farming AP, I mean yeah. It's not really intimidation or harassing.
I've played in ball groups, I've played solo bomber, ganker, 1vx, smallscale, dueler, all of the above really. It's just a different playstyle and some people like it or don't. I don't think it's something that's ever going to change from this point on. Regardless if it did, 12 players who are choosing to min-max and provide group utility sets and coordinate are 9.5/10 times going to run over a mob of people who don't coordinate.
End of the day, you really got about three options when it comes to dealing with a ball group (assuming you're solo)
1. Try to bomb them. (Worse groups can be bombed by a solo, I know from experience!)
2. Join a ball group to GVG them or nuke them outta wherever they are.
3. Just leave the area the ballgroup is farming. You said this yourself, they're farming AP. Don't be the AP they farm. :D
@@TheLostSoulESO your attempt at justification are typical. Yes farming AP is the point of the game…increasing points for you alliance is the whole premise. How you choose to do it is the problem. I use the term “legitimate “ as the original intended function of the ability ie. Heal stacking…as a function of raiding in a group it is an essential function for the raid to remain upright. While a ball group in PvP is using it precisely for that function the problem is that it is against other players that have nowhere near the offensive or defensive numbers of an endgame raid boss…and yet a group of 12 players can run a zone as a full raid force with all the perks and have a clear advantage over disadvantaged players. Face it…ideal organization and group makeup is rarely in place to defend against these ball groups. Sure…they are not invincible… but these groups only exist because they know they have clear advantage…and knowing this they choose to continue this behavior because they enjoy seeing the futility of the opponent”s actions. They ruin the spirit of the game. As for your suggestion of just leaving is also a cowardly response…seriously…just walk away from a keep when a bell group shows up? The game is to defend the keep til all is lost. But these guys will kick open the doors and head straight to the walls and relentlessly mow down the opponents over and over and over until it becomes futile enough that the opponent logs or moves on…..and just to add insult to injury the ball group will leave the keep without even repairing gates or walls just to go where the opponent has now relocated to and do the same thing. I call it a stretch to even consider AP farming as their main purpose…it is a straight up power trip…the enjoyment in the abuse of other players.
Like I said … ball groups are raid groups going into a zone with no raid mobs to fight. They wipe the floor with players because they know that the odds are there are no meaningful numbers of players with skill or abilities to take down their heal stacking asses. If they would use the zone wide buff in PvP to limit this stacking function then we would at least bring back the nice Zerg fights of old. Back when sheer numbers of fellow players were set against each other to the death…you know…strategy and fun…not 50 players against 12 and the 12 only give up when they are bored.
Ball groups are selfish raid groups…in PvE they could be ended by a raid mechanism from the boss or a stage of the fight…in PvP there is no such mechanic…and without full time organized and skilled opposition any ball groups can harass players any time they wish.
Unfortunately since there is no motivation from loot or progression for these ball groups…it only speaks to the low character of the individuals who lust for the power trip that killing defenseless player en mass repeatedly for the purpose of humiliation. Bragging you ran with ball groups before and defending them shows you are part of the problem…just like these worshipping content creators that use their platforms to promote the play style rather than call out the act as deplorable.
Really…ball group shows up at your keep…so walk away…or become an ace bomber that fails 9 out of 10 bombs on a good day…oh and only gets real lucky against a crappy ball groups….typical flexing I would expect from a ball group worshipper.
ZOS nerfed all the burst sets. Caulurrions, Thunder caller, Infalible mage, All L&H attack sets were made to only work for PVE, nerfed jabs etc. They kept nerfing to please casuals and keep them from dying. Now everyone is struggling to kill.
Thing is, if you don't put in the work to survive, you're always gonna get nuked whether it's from a burst proc build, or a stat dense build. It doesn't matter. Realistically, there's always gonna be a complaint, however I think the tank meta has gone on far too long. We need something to change!
And if people wanted to learn how to survive in pvp.. well, there are plenty of content creators (Like your's truly!) that have detailed guides about how to accomplish that.
@@TheLostSoulESO I agree you have to put in the work to survive. That’s what us competent players do. When we are getting shitted on, we work to make ourselves better so it doesn’t happen again. Casuals / incompetent players don’t want to put in the work to be better, they prefer the opposition is nerfed. Because they are the majority, ZOS complies opting to nerf the good players instead of helping the bad players get better.
Remember update 35, when the game tanked? That’s what ZOS was attempting to do. They called it “Balance”
"Lower the ceiling, raise the floor". They've said that before. Now you have every arcanist build and their brother doing 100-140k DPS in trials and no other class is required for DPS. If you're really lazy, you just play a HA sorc.
That kind of balance pulls over into PVP all as well. I picked up magsorc for the first time in years, and immediately started dominating even while running into walls and stuff like a doofus. It's all recorded and on the channel. :D
Tarnished ?
@@nobodykilledme9641 They better not nerf Tarnished.
iv been building sets and experimenting on my own for a while, what iv learned is this is a game of stacking. passives, cp points, sets, glyph, attributes. all of this comes together to make your plays style. What the astute players have learned to do is stack so efficiently and perfectly that they are making some good tanky damage builds. You are seeing a lot of okensoul ring builds and other wacky stuff come out. I think the games builds are in a weird spot right now, but I kinda Like it.
I don't think the current meta is the "By All Means" worst it's ever been, but it's certainly not in a place I'd consider "good". A lot goes in to making a build and playstyle, but since the game was homogenized and ran through a spreadsheet, a lot of niche builds and otherwise interesting builds were removed.
I just want to know how i can have 5k+ w/s damage, 20k+ pen, 30k health, 30k resistance bump into someone in cyrodill and i cant even move their health bar yet they can kill me with 2-3 moves then it shows in the recap they actually hit me like 7 times with animations and attacks i didnt even see happen 😅 Bad connection?? Its very easy to see whirling blades so how the fuck did i die from it when it never happened on my screen 🤣
A lot of pvp comes down to timing burst combos, and stuff that like. Adding onto that, you factor in a lot of silly little stuff like a light attacking proccing enchantments, poisons on your weapon, proc set effects, so on and so forth!
Lag is a bitch though, I can't count the times I have 10k+ HP left and then suddenly fall over dead without explanation!
Scuf controllers, press one button that is set up to do an entire combo. Get hit by things that weren't even visible.
Too much self heal + too many self buffs to manage + superior competition in form of standalone PvP games such as mobas and arena shooters. ESO pvp is simply not fun first and foremost and unbalanced distant second.
Disagree respectfully that it's not fun. If it wasn't, nobody would play it, nor would there be any content creators for it.
As for the buffs, and self healing. Yeah, through the roof. It's why sets like Oakfather's Retribution as so strong, because every character will have a ba-jillion buffs! The combat is pretty unbalanced, but that's why we try to bring up the concerns!
The armor is weird now, Imy a returning player and you used to need armor buffs no exception.
Now you can just forget about it and not die.
@@Frensthescandinavian you can best overland content like quests completely naked now. Lol. No gear required
11:00 yeah, but if you got rid of that you’d be indirectly further buffing sorc (which scales both offensively and defensively on max Mag alone).
Just like how the vamp changes bringing DR down across the board were an indirect buff to sorc (which mitigates through shields & can now burst 100 to 0 even easier).
I think it would be interesting to explore a more dynamic version of battle spirit that increase its healing debuff or increase dmg taken each time a player is hit. Like smash bros
@knowlen Yeah, for whatever odd reason sorc is one of the best outliers on mag scaling damage, and ZOS in their infinite balancing wisdom made it even easier to stack max mag for them by changing their passives. With a min maxed build, you push somewhere between 57-60k max mag and just delete everything and survive just fine!
Overall, I like the vampire changes. However, there's so many ways to stack mitigation that it isn't really the end of the world, and if you could still sustain vampire, you might as well keep it for the extra little mitigation just because.
wow mate... this is well written... very informational... and very eye-opening.
@StencilVlogs Thanks for watching and the comment! Glad you enjoyed it!
Zos is completely lazy. I understand that hardware upgrade is really up to the suits and not the devs, but item sets and class skill adjustment is the low hanging fruit that the devs can change at any patch/updates.
So many out of date sets from bygone era could had just given a minor boost in stats to make it relevant again. Meta Sets like rallying Cry and Wretched vitality etc should be used as bench mark sets that other sets should be adjusted up to.
Is not that hard like as the dev would just need to ask themselves or their player base when we add x to this set is it as stat dense as rallying Cry? Or is this trade off worth the benefit??? Eg new moon Acolyte.
Lazy lazy lazy!!!
@jasonchui111 hardware upgrades that were either neglected or somehow delayed made such a ridiculous impact on performance that ZOS never wanted to admit for such a long time. I remember the maybe one or two months of no lag in ESO at all after the hardware swap.
Yes, exactly this, though. There are so many sets in the game, and like 95% of them are objectively useless. You'll only ever use the meta sets, and there's no reason to touch anything else anymore.
You at least had the pre homogenized state of the game to argue very specific choices like the silks of the sun set buffing fire damage on dark elf dragonknights that used to get 7% more fire damage.
All those kinds of neat niche choices got washed down the drain, and sets that fit those niches fell into obscurity.
Im just returning to the game after about a 3 year hiatus and having a rough time. Thanks for this enlightening video.
Theres been alot of changes im still learning about.
Thanks for watching the video! I hope you're enjoying what you do get to play even through the rough patches! The combat has all the potential, I just think it's being balanced in all the wrong ways.
I think a big part of the possibility to build tanky yet have a lot of damage is sets with free damage procs. When old ones like Caluurion get nerfed, new ones like Tarnished Nightmare get added, and people crutch on that for a year or 2. It's always sets like this that lead to these autopilot builds that can just tank until they have 500 Balorgh and then unleash like 2-3 damage procs on people in quick succession. When some players initially responded positively to the no-proc ruleset (which is now dead again), I think 95% of that was down to them being tired of free damage procs that allowed players to build large amounts of burst damage without sacrificing much in the way of survivability.
The bigger issue is that PVE and PVP balancing have still not been separated. There's probably a reason for that, as doing so would flood the servers with a lot of extra calculations, but it's what's led to some classes being king in one game mode while being useless in the other (think Wardens, which are OP in PVP group play as damage dealers, but are barely used in PVE atm). Until this is solved, anything resembling a sense of balance will be hard to achieve.
@Degonyte I agree with this in large part. Damage procs absolutely let people build tanky, and as I said, giving players a free 1000 weapon and spell damage as a baseline contributes heavily as to why proc sets are so prevalent in that regard. If you took away that free baseline damage, most of those sets would (likely) see a drastic reduction in usage because they would just hit way weaker by default.
Tarnished Nightmare is a newer offender of being the meta bandwagon everyone hops on. You can't go into cyrodiil without having your ears destroyed by shattered glass. I don't think the damage from the set is overtuned personally, but that sound effect drives me insane. It's way too loud.
As for no proc, I 100% agree with you. Many years ago, when my partner and I ran a guild, we mained the Ravenwatch campaign long before it was no proc. After a while, I personally switched to Gray Host simply because Raven was always dead. No point in playing an unpopulated campaign.
For separating pvp and pve? I agree. Always should have been done, and it's been the bane of balance at all times. Battle spirit was supposed to help with that to some extent, but I think going forward in 2024 it needs further review to help deal with the never ending tank meta.
As you had mentioned with Wardens, it's actually the same ordeal with nightblades! They're everywhere in pvp, but rarely in trial dps for example! Why push all the complicated button combos when you can just no-thought arcanist beam everything in pveland?
I miss the DK wings, it was an amazing skill for defense. I was so pissed they changed it 😭
@@198585Joker yep, I was a dk main forever. That change was a step into the grave for dk identity. Sword/shield ult also did the same thing, but they nerfed the damage of it so hard.
What did it used to do
i do not even mind the new skill, it's the current animation I dislike, I used to flap about all the time just for fun, but now it looks like a suspended nutshell
Great video bro ! I Think your idea to reduce major brutaly and sorcery bonus is really good. And yeah, the main problem is that no class should have it all : high dmg, tankyness/healing, sustain, mobility ! Sorc and NB got it all. Strange to let that happening.
I’ve done a couple videos on how to fix pvp. Would love for you to do a video reviewing those points and connect them with yours ❤
I will definitely check out those videos and see if I can't come up with something! It's always good to hear other people's POV on how all these balancing issues should get addressed
People who “meta hopped” over to magsorc get crushed by people who mained magsorc through the dark times. that being said… wish they buffed critsurge healing instead of adding a heal to ward. It was just a lazy buff. Now you have trash magsorcs just spamming ward and it’s annoying lol.
I've not played sorc in years but even I survive noobing around.
😂brooo to true 😂 i miss old sorc 😢
I've been playing magsorc for years through thick and thin and well it does finally feel good to be on par with the best of them class wise I will admit surviving some of the things I have using Ward it's just kind of disgusting. I'm in 5 pieces of light armor sub 22k resistance fully buffed
Not true i took a long break and beat people that was on the class day 1
Is the game worth getting back into? Wanted to test cyrodiil
It's still fun for sure, just has balancing issues.
@TheLostSoulESO Thanks man
Going to boot it up and see how my Nightblade does
I wish ZOS would hire you to be on their combat team.
Can I make everyone bomb bait? (pretty please?)
I think pvp should cap health at 30k. Id even argue 25k tbh
It would help improve the time to kill dilemma
I can burst 40k tanks to abot 10k to 15k hp but then they heal back up in 1 hp based burst heal or 3 friends cross healing
Reducing hp will help to put down tanks and will even nerf ball groups who rely on 40k+ hp tanks and healers
If there was a health cap, oneshots would become a lot more prevalent because of how high damage is right now. So to lower health pools, damage has to be lowered in sync. My thought anyway!
@TheLostSoulESO no I agree and that's the balance direction I think will save pvp from this high health ball group tank meta,
@@sk8legendz They don’t need to cap health. They need to reinstate a lot of the build opportunities they took away.
Capping health is a nerf. We don’t need nerfs. We need buffs. Buff sets!
Or you could take some time to make a better build instead of trying to ruins other players builds because you are lazy and want things handed to ya.
@@skyhigh00001 Sounds like you get carried by 40k health builds
Sorry you suck at this game bro. But don't worry, zenimax Is gonna make more things to hold your hand through it. Because little babies like you like to cry
I main magsorc since the beginning.
Im pretty much death incarnate in bgs. I 1vX people all the time.
Timing is key. LoS and mobility. Understanding of stats. These things go a long way.
Finally someone stating that Templar is a bottom tier pvp class. Templar lacks offensive damage output, sustain and mobility.
Very good dueling class though
@@DoyouknowtheHweii 100% top 3 dueling class fs
@@ylvq Yea hard to tell but id even say nr 1 or 2 if u build correctly with like DK and Sorc
@@DoyouknowtheHweii very true, plar is amazing people just think it’s bad cuz they don’t spec into the right things, like I made a plar recently with 15k pen 8k avg wpn and spell and 30k resists, it’s a great class
@@ylvq it's trash in open world or BGs. It's only really effective in duels
I feel when they brought the hybridzation into the game it took away alot of class identity pretty much now every class wears the same sets and same skills and then you have all these procs sets that they bring out which has created 40k health bomb ball groups with insane cross healing, maybe for a pvp perspective add group scaling, the larger the group you're in you lose a certain amount of weapon and spell damage and resistance
i thought about it often
why dont they add Something like double skaling where u have to spec into offensive recources and also wep. dmg to get the same numbers so that ppl stop putting all points into hp. for example unneed like 25-30k max stam and also something like 5,5k-6k wep dmg to get the same numbers as only weapon dmg same with making healing dependend on both offensive stats. In addition to that why not further use a debuff like 10% dmg reduction(maybe scaling) for over 20k base res up to 30k and add bonus dmg the lower the armor vallue. I rly dislike that u can spec into hp wep dmg and get basically everything but if u fight someone using the same noone dies anymore.
The reason people dump all into HP now days versus mag and stam (like they used to) is because ZOS granted a baseline 1k weapon and spell damage. Meaning people no longer had to use as much attribute points into resources to get as much damage as they used to.
But yeah, some sort of scaling, probably built into battle spirit would be my go to.
Racial passives should reflect playstyle so a Breton with x Health gets this bonus at lvl 15 where a Mag dumped Breton would get x bonus. Gotta rework the sorc shield and heal, etc. I get hit by ranged attacks even when using a shade idk about you guys,
I don't know bro even though it was fun sending meters back with wing flap is a bit op lol
They should change the werewolf appearance to the MMO RPG werewolf look if they ever do a rework on werewolf.
I love this video! I came back to the game about 3 months ago and play an Arcanist main with a bow and Oakensoul and I do just OK.. but when 90% of BG's and Cyrodil are Nigthblades and Sorcs just abusing the hell out of their overpowered classes in PvP I tend to only do the daily BG once for the boosted XP and then just run in groups in Cyrodil. PvP is just no fun otherwise for me when it could be so much better!
Yep, I love the fact that you can play what you want to play, and still get some results, but the balance means that other classes are just de facto better than yours more often than not.
They just need to Nerf heal stacking. 5-6 of the same heal on 1 person and they can tank 2 dawnbreakers to the face and heal through it. It’s just bullshit.
Also they nerf the hell out of every tank killing set so everyone built 35-40k hp and ball grouped up.
Siege isn’t even deadly anymore.
is easy to solve this: select a role like in dungeon.
you are a support? heal and shield normal, damage and resistances/hp halved
you are a tank? resistances/hp normal, damage and shield/heal halved
you are a damage dealer? damage normal, heal/shield and resistances/hp halved
there you would have to focus on one role, as the problem is that they made solo countent possible (even in vet) being a healer, a dd and a tank in 1 character and that transfer to pvp making pvp offtank vs offtank only
Kind of like a Overwatch 2 style MOBA balancing? I could understand that, yeah. However I don't think it'd sit well with people when ZOS's key attraction is "play how you want"
i agree in most parts but olso litle bit disagree, balance from the classes want fixed since jears i know, but what makes is hard is the hybritisation of every class and the strong cross healing that eill be just used by most guilds in pvp. the class identity just not exist for a long time now. i just would like to see to remove the hybritysation olso the cross healing and like to have the classic ting fore a real role to use some classes like from a class to be a tank next to be just an dd and last to be just a healer. eaven big guild on pvp would have a competition to use and balance it inside a group. i´m running right now a bomber warden and not realy need to care about enything while running against faction stack ore coordinated bomb groups and dont care about my healing while i running with just some randomes non group players corse of the cross healing and run just solo corse of it. for me it will be just ok if there would be no hybritynisation and again cklass itantiny to helaer tank ore dd with the cross healing but healers should be real healers with the most healing and burst healing and cross healing just a litle bit help and not more. gratings from pc eu uwu pvp cyro^^ have olso respect for us cyro players you have it even worse corse of performence on your servers
Je trouve que le PvP n'a jamais été aussi bon que en ce moment et que les développeurs prennent globalement les bonnes décisions
Je pense qu'aux niveaux de jeu les plus élevés, ils pourraient faire un meilleur travail. Cependant, ce n’est pas aussi grave que dans certains correctifs. Je pense qu'un peu plus d'ajustements des classes les plus faibles pour les amener à la hauteur de choses comme la lame nocturne ou le sorcier serait une bonne chose à faire.
(Désolé pour une mauvaise traduction ! J'ai utilisé Google Translate car je ne parle pas français !)
❤
ESO pvp has steadily gotten worse every year. Every update, for about 6 years straight
Anyone who still takes the game serious is either a new and incompetent player, or an old player that outlasted all the sweats and can finally stick their chest out.
As long as they continue adding content and stress to these old servers, Lag will get worse and combat will continue to slow down in order to compensate.
I feel that about old players here.. I sometimes bring out my beta pet now and then :D.
But yes, there's always more server stress and very rarely an update on server performance.
Great video my friend, not a single thing I disagree with in this video.
Thanks for watching!
Balorgh and Acuity
Works, sure.
@@TheLostSoulESO Yes, especially Balorgh which enables gameplay where players don't really have to make build sacrifices to survive and get kills.
Literally saw someone tanked 20 players in Cyrodiil 😂
@@aelisif block tanks op! Until they're negated!
Ball groups ruined PVP!
@@Sarevoky I don't think so. Organized group play is always going to be stronger, and those players are going to choose to play regardless of the changes the developers make.
Bgs need nerfed. There's no point in allowing 12 healers stack heals on 4 dps, while they all have 35k health and 9k dmg. All just to burst down single target average players, or bomb multiple average players with their proc sets hitting harder than their actual skills.
I went into this video with skepticism only to find myself saying "facts" after literally every point you made.
Thanks for watching! Glad I made relatable points!
Few immediate fixes:
Tarnished nightmare needs to have some sort of telegraph versus instant damage
The latency in larger scale fights is absolutely obscene, which could be fixed by disabling outfits, costumes, certain textures, etc etc with battle spirit passive/etc.
I would also go in:
Battle spirit would get an immediate 30% damage increase
Leave the healing and health scaling issues alone for now
Movement speed penalties(movement speed should scale like basically everything else, with higher diminishing return values the deeper you're applying the buffs) in no way should i be able to use snow treaders with 200% walk speed 😂(100% possible fyi, lol)
Not all procs sets have telegraphs and to me, the damage from this set isn't too bad. The sound is arguably more damaging than the set itself, lol. I could give or take tarnished as balanced. It's just the flavor of the year and will change with the next big proc set.
If raising damage done, healing could be left alone for sure, otherwise lowering healing done and leaving damage as is, another possibility.
Movement speed penalties could be good, but it'd only really effect ballgroups or people stacking obnoxious amounts of speed. (Easily done on Nightblade, for instance.)
@TheLostSoulESO lol I built a troll warden at 200% walk speed that's nearly unkillable in snow treaders that HoT stacks like a fiend as well 😅
The sounds for tarnished is obnoxious.... I agree there.
Yep, that sort of build is a specialty for ballgroups. 3 swift, major and minor expedition, celerity cp, even with snow treaders on you just go zoom all the time. :D
I mean I would be simplifying this a bit,
The main issue is the constant overlooking of PvP content in favour of PvE from ZoS.
Good burst sets get nerfed way too regularly while sustain and healing has only gotten stronger each patch.
On the flip side classes get buffed/ nerfed frequently to balance PvE but never take into account the consequences of how strong or weak that class will be in PvP.
You can’t as a developer favour certain content over other areas of your game simply because more people play casual PvE?
Especially if your combat system between PvE and PvP are heavily linked and influence each other greatly.
While I agree with most of what you say here, I can't exactly, 100% say they overlook the consequences. I would more likely say that ZOS either doesn't understand the implications of some of their changes, or at the very least is conceptually ignorant to the meta/how people en masse play PVP.
@@TheLostSoulESO Ignorance is a good word to use! I definitely think that ZoS’s pure focus is on where the money is right? I don’t think it’s incompetence because they clearly know how to make a great game! But more ignorance like you say to the lack of care and respect PvP content has had compared to PvE.
I’m not sure about numbers but I assume more people play PvE than PvP? so its ZoS making changes to benefit the many (casual) players out there rather than spending time/resources on parts of their game where the community is a minority.
Absolutely more people play PVE than PVP and I respect that, I once was one of those players, when beta released that thought ESO Was "Skyrim Online". Years later, I prefer PVP to doing Trials/Dungeons, but I do enjoy my questing.
I think there is some level of desire the developers might have to actually balance the game's PVP. I'm just not fully confident that they've got a solution, or understand what the problems initially are.
Champion Points should not exist in PvP in general, the amount of sustain and tankiness you can achive with them is so busted. Battlegrounds has the best ruleset and balance eso pvp has to offer. Sure there are bonker builds but most have to invest in some kind of extra sustain or tankiness and the mmr based matchmaking is a good thing imo. Playing in the upper end of the matchmaking is really enjoyable when people actually understand the game and use builds for pvp. There are rarely matches where you have one player solo carry the round. As for cyro.. well either you ballgroup, gank or bomb not much space to be a brawler.
I do belive warden has to be the best counter to most of the meta slave builds.. especially in bgs.. the amount of pressence a good warden(fighter not healer) player has in bgs is really really noteable
@tiramisu8924 I used to play no cp Battlegrounds and cyrodiil exclusively until the no cp campaign died on pcna. It was more balanced yes, but unfortunately the game is built around having champion points and the majority of pop prefers the cp campaign.
I learned to live with that, and now days I don't think it's the most terrible thing.Sure, it helps patch holes in builds, but it doesn't make a bad build good in any case.
My thought anyway.
I agree, I like much more pvp without champion points
Crossheals, Zerglings, Nightcapping in Cyro we need a health cap too
Nerf Streak and Shields
A better Golden Vendor
And pls no Negates from Guards 😂
@sidwie302 guard negates always seek to lock on to me at the worst moments! XD
Nightcapping for PCNA isn't something of a balance issue unfortunately, people playing the game in other timezones and countries have all the right to play as they like to. It does make the campaign a bit boring (because they mostly all seem to choose ep on pcna/gh) but what can zos realistically do about that?
Would love to see Golden get some updates! I barely buy anything from it anymore. Rarely picking up a monster set or something I don't have for whatever reason.
A crossheal reduction or something could be good! Maybe scaling by how many instances of a skill you have running on you. (Say you have 8 vigors running on you, each one is reduced by 5%)
Premade groups premades have ruined wow pvp in its latest expansion and zos is intent on letting 4v4 premades destroy pugs in 8v8 bgs.
Zos is intentionally letting premades vs pugs in 8v8 and it will destroy bgs.
For me its get rid of (one-shot meta). Not just in pvp but pve as well.
Miss one mechanic dead in pve. I was in a dungeon today blocked when I should have dodged everyone wiped.
To many ganker builds in cyrodiil. I was one shot at 40k hp and max resist. That should not be ok.
Also I've seen dps self heal more then my healer character. Thats also bs.
I'd say lower self sustainability marking healer traits needed. Make armor worth something again. Theirs no such thing as a tank in eso just block and dodge roll or dead.
You can never get rid of the one shot meta in PVP for a few reasons, namely damage just being that high. If some nerf to player tankiness happens (and should happen) one shots will be more prevalent. At least where they are right now, most people aren't dying to a 40k + DK Heavy Attack oneshot.
I don't PVE much in ESO anymore, many people I've been close to over the last many years can attest to the fact that it literally (I wish I was joking) puts me to sleep. Face to keyboard :D.
Yep, DPS can heal at times heal more than a full spec healer BECAUSE of how healing scales with highest damage stats (or in some cases, max HP). Not great balancing. And yeah, there are no true PVP tanks any more. Used to be a good pure tank build was 100% unkillable without the entire server sieging/negating that player. Now a handful of people can take down a pvp "tank" with a little coordination.
@@TheLostSoulESO i want armor buffed. Not nerf. Also its the stupid archer night blades. That skill relentless focus. It seems to just bypass all armor.
I know this because. I myself went and tested on my trash character. Can confirm one shot with blue gear. No min max
I will agree relentless focus is wildly OP. It's a skill that does more damage than some ultimates in some cases. In my time playing NB, the highest relentless I hit on someone was a 28k crit.
As someone who is a casual in this game compared other MMOs I play like Warframe, The pvp needs work. ZOS loves money and casual people who drop a quick milli on the crown store for a really ugly skin. The pvp aspect changes, I assume, are to keep most whales happy instead of looking at the real issues with stats, hp, dmg, etc. The people that pay most for this game complain about damage? ZOS makes it so everyone has giga HP. It’s unfortunate and maybe Im just new and wrong, but this is what I notice from the monetization in the game, and how that affects multiple aspects differently.
Im also never paying 140.00 USD a year to RENT a game I payed FULL PRICE FOR. Screw ESO Plus. ZOS has a lot to fix before it’s even worth it to consider. A broken game with a monthly subscription is just so gross.
Especially when they hide pvp effective skill lines behind DLC. Thats so trashy. Jewelry crafting, Psyjic Order and Scribing? Sorry thatll be 100 bucks one time purchase or outrageous monthly subscription on top of your console’s online subscription in a game you already paid for, just to use things that should be available to everyone. DLC should just be new areas to explore, outfits, sets, dungeons, adventures, etc. Not essentially NECESSARY new game mechanics someone needs to use in PvP or else they immediately have a disadvantage. Its too late for that to change tho.
Thats also an issue. That not everyone in PvP has access to the same things. Its not that they havent unlocked it, its that they havent spent real money on it yet. All of these things and more are why PvP isnt great right now.
100% with you on this one. In retrospect, it's not something you often thing about until you don't have those dlc. Until you don't have the skill lines, until you don't have xyz. It used to be a bit different up until they added mythic items. I think that was the biggest turning point in DLC vs NO DLC power. Once upon a time a competent player with no DLC still could put up their own. Now? Not gonna happen.
Game is heavily monetized, bragging about making a lifetime amount over 2 BILLION dollars and we get some of this quality of server performance and balance? Wild.
@@TheLostSoulESO I forgot to even mention Transmuting too. My stickerbook is visual only! I literally have to delete Geodes from my inventory because I have 500 and cannot use a single one. That and the Craft bag nonsense. Its so ridiculous you have to pay 2-3 times the base price to interact with the game and rest of the community in a meaningful way. Games like these are akin to auctions. It becomes “who pays more wins” and that’s unacceptable
@@shieldmaiden101 there are people who make their game work without the craft bag, without the extra housing and bank space, and so on. I really don't know how anyone does that without going insane
@@TheLostSoulESO Ive been trying it lol. My first crafting character atm. I have to be very particular and consistent of the things I put away in my bank and storage. Use all of my gold on Bag space and Bank space and constantly yet unfortunately be selling materials I dont plan to use immediately for more gold. After every few dungeon runs I do laps around Mournhold and empty my inventory. Rinse and repeat all day. I dont want to do end game stuff until I can make my own strong gear. And hopefully profit from making others gear. Im also a Tank. “Get hit, pick up stuff, leave” has been my journey for about a week now. I do have some DLC tho just not ESO or things like Summerset, because when I chose the DLC, I didnt think there were other ones that were necessary.
thing is the skills are giving WAY TOO MUCH nowadays, look at arcanist tentacle, damage, execute, heal, generates crux .. characters should be begging for passives and buffs from allies and sets not have access to a shitload of them that easily
This exactly. I've said this privately a few times, the modern state of combat makes it entirely possible to stack as many buffs and debuffs into one build with no real drawback. Nightblade is extremely guilty of this, especially if you get down into nitty gritty minmaxing
Yes massive tanky people need to be nerf the health pools is what's keeping him alive and they know it
@@Katie-vv6ff high hp is part of the problem, but nerfing hp pools without changing damage, healing, or mitigation values won't do enough to change the meta imo
Laughs in perma block troll tank
@nobodynothing1469 thank you tanks for being my ultgen! True heroes! ❤️
@TheLostSoulESO you're smart to build ult and then run off to do something else instead of falling for the trap lol
I think pvp needs a HP cap, ppl just zerg with 40-50k HP, cap it at 30k imo that would help the tank meta
That'd only really nerf ball groups, who would just get much higher healing then from speccing into extra resources instead of HP. I don't think high HP is the issue itself, but just a byproduct of the balancing issues. Back before a lot of the wacky ZOS decisions were made, 30-33k HP made you a tank. Nowdays, 30k is often low unless you're a bomber or ganker.
@TheLostSoulESO I'd take more heals > max hp builds, it just takes all the fun out of the game when I wear 3 damage sets and line up a perfect burst on some dude just to only get them to 50% hp, it feels like 40% of ppl in cyro are literally just unkillable without cheese sets on
I feel you, but healing is already way overtuned IMO. Increasing heals to lower HP would just be the same meta in the other direction.
@TheLostSoulESO except my burst would kill people before they got the heals off, the problem is rn I don't even get the chance to use my execute and I'm using stuhn/clever/balorgh 3 dmg sets still doesn't kill ppl
Yeah I agree at that much. 3 dmg sets and you can't kill some people! But if healing was increased, any competent player would be rolling their heal over times anyway. Then a burst heal would be even stronger than they are now.
Ngl the artic blast nerf kinda killed wardens healing
@@joshuapetrak-swann5307 I know the skill was very strong for small group or solo wardens. I've heard most of them don't like that nerf. Yet sorc can have a giant shield that burst heals them. Because balance! :P
So people buy new chapter with an even stronger burstheal and i agree i think it wasnt necessary
i can not even call ESO a PVP game when you have one shot builds or ball grps with rush of agony pulling you from 50M to kill you before you even get pulled near them that is mobile 1 click gaming. Tons of CCs and everyone is exploiting the non existent CC immunity. Server lag needs a nerf. staying quiet about all the ways you can exploit bugs and broken mechanics is in my mind what is killing the game. Vet players exploiting new players til they quit.
You're gonna have 1 shots or good 1 shot combo players in many pvp games. It's not something new in that regard, and the easiest way to deal with ballgroups solo is just to avoid them.
You'll need to team up with people to deal with that, and unfortunately the deal with cc immunity is in those giant fights, it's easy to keep a high uptime on it between immovable potions, snow treaders mythic keeping snares off of you, and people spamming every cc imaginable with no burst following it up, just to be disruptive.
Definitely nerf server lag! It sucks hardcore. Pressing a button 6 times before the ability casts. But I don't think veteran players in mass are "exploting" mechanics.
I think the main issue is PvP and PvE aren't balanced separately. sets fight for you and proc sets are op. pvp was lot more fun when the best thing to do was to spec into straight damage and u can die in seconds and kill people in seconds.
They're not balanced separately, and neither are balanced well IMO.
@@DR-nh2kh Proc sets are great. They make build crafting much more satisfying. Without them it’ll just be a numbers game. And the person with the bigger number will Always win.
Hit harder then
ZOS nerfed everything to make the pvp not fair anymore which makes pvp hard to compete specially with werewolf because werewolf don't have nothing in the werewolf skillline to get negative effects off you an the heavy attacks are very slow to get in on someone sadly an the leap ability needs to be switched to a bite attack that do 10% more damage because the leap attack has a bug where u can't leap on your opponent for what ever reason. ZENIMAX can't see they problems but others see them. Heavy need to be faster in light attacks an switched leap attack for a bite attack that do bleeding damage over time to make where better. Light attacks should do 5% of bleeding damage done an with the bite that should stack up to 15% bleeding damage done on werewolf skillline. Werewolf needs that extra pressure because of pvp now. We struggle with execution when try kill a players that pop a damage shield more often at low Hp to keep u struggling to finish.
@RubyLoudLaughterGaming I'll be honest when I see a werewolf in pvp they instantly die or have 45-50k hp and have no chance of killing me alone, so I tend to just ignore them. I wish it was a valid playstyle again.
They should nerf arcanist
Magsorc is shit in pvp vs all the DKs, NB and Wardens. Keep in mind that all sorcs need wretched vitality in order for the class to work.
Nah, not even. I can hop on my magsorc, which I barely play. 5 pc wretched, 5 pc crafty, DDF, mighty chudan and just go nuke people and never die. It's stupid balance. and I say this as someone who played a ton of ratblade.
I've a video up making fun of how easy it is, where I show myself stumbling around and still nuking people and rarely dying.
that is outright wrong, Magsorcs have sustain burst mobility anit-burst anit-preassure (hardend) etc etc and ive seen good magsorcs on not wretched literally skinning people its definitly possible but people take the lazy way out with wretched and you forgot rallyingcry which is what most run in combo with deathdealer
@@DoyouknowtheHweii you sir haven't met any of the gigachad nightblades that delete you in 2 seconds.
@@titusbojan4271 yes i have and iam sttill staying with what i said but u are forgetting a crucial point. Block and they dont kill you
Magsorc players usally suck ass at this game which is the only thing keeping sorcs from being completely dominant. Sorc beats everything. None of the classes you mentioned can keep up with a sorc running a burst combo that is up every 4 seconds, 15k shields and always CCs you and is at a distance with streak. Get good and you will never lose.
Valid
Proc sets
Anything that takes skill away from a pvp environment and carries players is what ruins pvp any og knows pvp was at a all time high back the game was newer because most ran things like hundings. Now it's all cheese
@@ethanward3912 Half and half agree. I don't like all the proc set cheese. But it's not the answer, otherwise Ravenwatch no proc would have had players, and everyone knows (At least, PCNA) that Ravenwatch was a dead campaign for too long.
Night balde is powerful in pvp but ass in pve
Yep! This entirely!
Overpowered ball groups aren’t helping save PvP
Ball groups have been a thing forever. I don't think they're a major problem, however the level of their survivability ties in to the bad balancing.
DK was best for years, necro harmony, this is the most balanced in years. Sorc is good to curse endless then stun without that stun sorc is ok a lucky procced frag is the usual decider. For nb running detect is a hard counter against them. From my 10 years of PvP the best ball groups that stay in keeps and farm the faction for an hour or more are mostly wardens northern storm. I can run a warden and the very best players that play nightblade and sorc usually give up or need a friend or two to burst me or others down. React faster is probably the best nightblade in the game on NA PC. I have watched him give up on templars and wardens and DKs and move on to squishyer targets. I just think good players can make any class work and bad players can’t. I run a VD plaque break sorc in group. It can’t take a lot of punishment. One DK leap and my shield is gone. That said I have popped a sword shield ult and hey Jensen a very good sorc fragged himself in the face and one shotted himself.
For sure you can make any class work. I've gotten to that point where I just want to play my necro and that's where I am these days. The meta classes change hands all the time and that's just the nature of PVP. I just wish classes were more balanced as a baseline so that the argument never becomes "this class is abjectly the best and if you dont play it you're always statistically weaker across the board"
PVP is fine, pfff there's nothing wrong with it AT ALL, it also doesn't even effect PVE, not EVER. Trust me bro.
Oh, mb, you're 100 right. Gotta delete the video now! :D
@@TheLostSoulESO It's fine... everything is just fine. 🔥🔥🔥🙈🔥🔥🔥
I feel the sarcasm drip from this through the ether of the Internet
The whole thing is way too complicated. Eliminate buffs and debuffs, eliminate armor set bonuses, just raw damage and armor and abilities.
So.. deconstruct half of what makes the combat function and makes it unique? I don't think that would work, respectfully.
@@TheLostSoulESO yes lol. The game is dying. The reason cod and other games are so successful is their simplicity. Pick a weapon and shoot/slash. Skill in movement, strategy and team work.
Eso avg player base has dropped to 2018 levels 3months in a row.
It wouldnt work. They tried this one campaign in cyro and half of the server stopped playing.
@@hypello9534 dang. Trying to get my friends into eso but they are overwhelmed.
This is probably the worst idea I've ever read
Spellpower=healpower kill this game!
Oh look - another PvP'r whining about not being able to stomp all the casuals (the majority of ESO playerbase) as fast as he thinks he should be able to. Whaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video.
Oh look another casual whining about not being able to kill everyone without any effort or experience. Whaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
I'm sorry but NO! This is dumb. Let me translate this video in an easy sentence. I refuse to do research and grind out gear for the content I wish to run.
You need to find a good build and practice your rotation. TWO BAR rotation. If you refuse to do that then you aren't going to do well. Why ask or request that they ruin the game for everyone else? LEARN TO PLAY. That's not being rude, good players have grinded this game and learned what to do to be good. They don't have one gear item and 1 skill, they have gear sets, golded out, skill lines grinded out, build tailored to the content, etc. They have worked hard. This is the equivalent to saying I don't want to get better, I just want the game dumbed down. Screw that. Get better.
@skyhigh00001 Saying this video is an L2P issue suggests to me you haven't watched it at all.
I have over 10k hours in ESO since the beta, I've played pvp for a long time and I will not go egotistical and call myself the GOAT, but I do think I'm competent enough to contend with 95% of players.
I don't do one bar builds. I grind out dungeon and trial gear if it's needed for pvp content. I put in my time and effort.
The video is about the balancing changes the developers at ZOS have made over the years. In my opinion, their decisions have made the QoL of pvp go downwards. Builds used to be more diverse, and you actually had to put much more thought into something.
I've really really tried to give this game a good shake but holy crap the eso pvp is probably the worst pvp of any mmo I've ever played. I get that a lot of it is just time and experience but holy shit is it so non-new player friendly. I've dumped 100+ hours in this game and if you're not in an experienced premade you might as well not bother. Truly hot garbage as it's so hard for non-vets to actually compete.
50% agree here. I can't say it's the worst I've ever (personally) played, but it isn't very new player friendly. It takes a lot to get into, and takes a lot more losing (in the process of 'gitting gud') than a lot of people want to deal with.
@@TheLostSoulESO My issues is that as someone who really really really tried to get into it starting a few months ago it's felt like a slog and a chore and almost never fun.
I understand grinding gear and getting the right set of gear, I understand getting enough skill points to be fully buffed and even building into meta, but that's really hard because there's just so many skills which adds another layer of complication compared to most mmo's for their pvp. Then tie in weaving, a massive champion level slog (granted not for bg's), and animation cancelling and it's just to much work to just be competitive. I get it's probably fun for the long time vets but this is the kind of thing that kills your pvp scene I also think the recent change from 3 teams to two as awful because it's only exasperated the feeling of being utterly stomped by a premade when before you could kind of have two loosing teams focus more of their aggression on the one team running away with it.
@DarkBunnyLord I hear you. I'm in the absolute same boat. I hate grinding characters. I've had one of each class for years upon years and still don't have all the guild stuff always unlocked, or crafting, or something.
I don't like to grind, I like to play my game and have fun. It's one reason I don't play a ton of eso anymore (after 10k+ hours since beta)
ESO combat can be really unique and fun when it's going good, but the grinding and balance is easily a huge turn off.
Pvp will never be fun, its just the truth. You can't enjoy something that's not apm skill based. You would need to take all healing all shields and all set bonuses away including traits. Then people would probably have fun.
I would argue it can be fun (based on an individual's definition), but it will never be balanced, or maybe well balanced. I think the combat system is unique, but there's just too many flat statistical differences one way or another.
@@TheLostSoulESO i actually like pvp in most games, just not eso. most games followed the balance ground. The more resistance and health you have the less damage with no penetration requirements. Less tanky more damage. However that doesn't apply to eso in any concept. Being able to tank and do damage kills many many games. Its actually better to have fast ttk. More average players enjoy it.
I agree, I rather have a faster TTK, but my idea is simply that the premise of ESO PVP is fun. The current balance and the high TTK is not fun, but the game itself has the potential 100%, IMO.
Get rid of bs proc sets again. Keep stat based sets so we can go back to needing skill to kill your opponents. Fkin tank proc meta it the worst load of newbie crap
woke devs ruin pvp the most
Do you guys just use that word for virtually anything you don't like? Anything that you don't like or makes you feel uncomfortable or bad, is "woke."
@@RaiRyu292agree... The main point is that some guys are op and others are not...
Nothing woke here... I mean... Bethesda has been awake since forever but...
I like pvp just how it is... And I know the grievances with NBs and in a small way I guess it makes sense, but every class has its strong points and not every NB plays the same identical magblade setup... Anyone who knows my Peekaboo Pig toon knows that it can burst like crazy, but they also know It's not the same ole setup and can easily be killed as long as you're paying attention... I really don't understand why everyone plays the same builds but they do and that's not the game, it's the people playing it... They make the decision to copy and paste... The game itself offers a ridiculous amount of variety that's effective but nobody takes the time to play around with alterations... I think every class has its undeniable perks and I could lay out plenty of examples but I'll only say this... Dks can survive almost anything as long as they don't lose aggression, sorcs can survive almost anything if they keep their shield refreshed and stay mobile, wardens can survive anything as long as they use the right combo of morphs, arcs can survive anything as long as they take the time to keep their buffs going, NBs can survive if they remain elusive, Templar can survive anything as long as they use their heals, and necro can survive anything because necros, as players, are THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE GAME... Many people would disagree, especially with the last one but all you have to do is pay attention... If you take a necro main and understand what it takes to maintain their buffs and debuffs, it's undeniable that they're the best overall ESO players, which really stands out when they setup literally any other class... Avidnecro, on Xbox NA, is a prime example of this... Put that dude on a sorc or nb and it's lights out for almost anyone because he's so use to maintaining the hardest class to maintain... In the end, it's the PLAYERS that make or break the pvp climate... The game just offers choices, it's the players that choose the same small selection of choices... That's why I setup so many different toons... Just to play in low mmr for a while where there's still diversity because the players aren't meta humping clones... If people were actually here to HAVE FUN instead of to do MATH EQUATIONS, the game would be perfectly balanced... I think most of what people call unbalanced is just the frustration that comes from death... Just adjust your playstyle a hair and everything smooths right out... I know first hand because I've had to change mine a billion times to compensate for changes... Two years ago, everyone didn't stand in a fireworks display of green and red circles with radiating aoe and hots, but now they do... It's just evolution and you just have to evolve... If the game were "balanced", it would become stagnant and then we'd all be out of our favorite addiction... The players hold the "balance" in their hands... Nothing in nature is equal, and as soon as something can take the upper hand, it will... There's no reason to expect a video game to be different... Balance doesn't mean equality and I think that equality is what most people mean when they say balance... The game is fine how it is... And was... And will be... That's all just my opinion of course...
Mostly, people build a lot of the "same" characters to engage in the META, most commonly known as "Most Effective Tactics Available". When it comes down to the pure sweatlords in the game, the differences between mathematical and systemic class balance can easily be exemplified.
As a casual player, as an average player, as someone who is worse than average, it does not matter what class you play, because these changes are MOST noticeable among the top performance and highest levels of understanding about game mechanics.
That being said, there are absolutely, undoubtedly, without question 100% amazing players for each class, as you named Avid Necro as one of the GOATs for Necro (and I agree!), but when it comes down to how well performing the class is against other classes, there is just a clear power discrepancy between something like Necromancer versus a DK, or a Nightblade right now.
I am all for classes each having their individual thing, as I mentioned in class identity. Unfortunately, class identity has been gutted over there years so now all you have is a homogenized "this class is a fire/poison skin, and this class is a lightning skin" because they all do the same ( or similar!) damage due to spreadsheet balancing.
The root of the balance issue is simply "Can you put a really good necromancer player in a duel with a similarly skilled sorcerer or nightblade player?"
The answer on PCNA is that the Sorc or NB will hands down win 9/10 times. The class is just objectively, and mathematically stronger right now. It isn't impossible for the necromancer to win, mind you, but that they have to try objectively 3x harder because of how the class is currently balanced.
And that is what frustrates a lot of people. Why should they try 3x harder if they can also meta hump? If you're an average or above skilled player, why try harder? Play the meta class and reap the benefits of the abjectly poor spreadsheet balancing. I posted a video where I haven't played magsorc in YEARS, and even while noobing around (streaking into walls, missing combos, ETC) I was still NUKING people.
I get your point from the dueling perspective, for sure... I honestly hadn't even thought of that... So, this video is really for the highest level of players, where the smallest details actually matter... I'm a die hard player but I'm not high level in that way... I just approach the game with a sense of enjoyment that I keep no matter what... That's why I never get upset and am always nice to everyone... No emotions connected... I don't think many people like me but I'm not going anywhere because I sincerely love this game's pvp and the players... I really appreciate your content and definitely appreciate your thorough response... I like when people take the time to help others grasp new perspectives... That's rad of you... Gg, dude...
@devilpig6 I'm glad you're enjoying it and able to learn something!
Yeah, the general idea (that I support) from zos is to make all classes accessible to players so anyone can play how they want. That's absolutely cool, but the problem with how they went about it is just that all the classes do not have equal footing, which leads to greater power discrepancies when you start looking into it!
For one example, until this very last patch, necromancer had no class source of major brutality/sorcery or no source of major prophecy/savagery!
Meaning that necromancer was THE ONLY(!) class in the game that was required to source very common buffs from weapon or guild skill lines. Those sorts of things become a huge issue in class balance, for example.
Dude you're literally nefasqs with a voice changer... lol😊
@@andrewdunne5307 you caught me! I'm the monotone clone who's a little less famous! :D
Nb and sorc absolutely need to be nerfed
Or equally, everything else raised to their power level! Free my necro from D tier jail!
@TheLostSoulESO I agree. Putting major wep spell on the skeleton mage was so stupid it definitely needs work. Have you tested max stats? It buffs damage by a lot.
Still not going to use the skeleton unless I'm roleplaying as a zerg surfer. Rally/Forward Momentum or Degeneration are just better skills. The DMG on the skeleton is so minimal it's not even worth slotting for PVP. I've seen maybe one person in PCNA Gray Host/ Battlegrounds running it. Literally, only one.
As for max stats, yeah. I play around with my builds a lot. I don't personally run many proc sets anymore outside of vicious death, plaguebreak, and dark convergence (for obvious bomber reasons!). Prefer to play stat based consistent builds, myself. I can play proc builds and hp stackers now and then, but its just not as fun for me.
@@TheLostSoulESOngl bro i dont think ive ever agreed with someone as much as you, great takes