One quick correction: the aircraft built by the 262 Project are *not* replicas. They are licensed by the Messeschmitt Family with continuation serial numbers. They are real, if slightly updated Me-262s.
Indeed. These new-built Me 262s were slightly upgraded and they were equipped with readily available, more modern and reliable General Electric CJ610 engines. Oh boy these planes fly beautifully in air shows! IMHO Me 262 would have benefitted of air brakes as slowing down the plane to landing speed during the landing circle was very slow.
The fact that German engineers could construct a jet turbine engine from mild steel ( not specialist alloys ) and make it last for 20 hours before a rebuild is a testament to their skill.
@@Crashed131963 Considering that they were preparing for war for 20 years when everyone else was preparing at the last moment, it's not really difficult to see how they held off. Once the Allies got prepared, they curb-stomped the Germans.
@@youraveragescotsman7119 The Germans had no planes, tanks, u-boats or even a military before 1933 and they converted to full war economy in mid 1943. Stop pulling figures out of your arse buddy.
@@shabibhaider From the time of the dsigning of the Treaty of Versailles, the German Government, Military, and Industry had been preparing for the next war, building cadres to fill out the leadership ranks in a rapid expansion of the Heer, moving weapon development to hidden subsidiaries in neutral countries, working with the Soviets to create aviation and armor/mechanized training bases in Russia. It's worth noting that the German Navy had openly started defying the treaty limitations before the Nazis came to power, with the development and construction of the Panzershiff (Pocket Battleships), and that Wehrner von Braun and his compatriots were recruited by the Weimar Republic's German Army for rocket weapon development in 1931. Note as well, that despite the limits of the Treaty of Versailles, in 1931 _and_ 1933, the German Army was larger than the U.S. Army.
Great prog. Only one important fact missing and that is that a genuine WWII Me 262 A has been restored with its original Junkers Jumo 004 engines to flying condition. The project was about 90% finished the last time I checked. The Jumo powerplants have been suitably upgraded in terms of materials and fuel supply , as has the problematic undercarriage, but it is totally original and was a serving Luftwaffe fighter of WWII. Check it out. Also the Sukhoi Su 9 and 11 ( not to be confused with the later supersonic fighters of the same numerics) were straight surfaced a/c unlike the 262 with its radical swept wing and tail surfaces. The main two Soviet initial jets,were the Yak 15 and the twin BMW 003 powered MiG 9 F. The Yak wasn't as daft an idea as it seemed. Being basically a Yak 3 with a Jumo 004 and the original taildragger u/c (albeit with a solid steel tailwheel because of the hot jet efflux) meant it was ideal for average skilled service pilots to convert to jets on as it flew in much the same way as it's piston engined forbears. Better in most ways and without any assymetric torque pull from the prop. It was developed into the Yak 17 with trike u/c and finally into the Yak 23 which both the Czechs and Polish AF used before they used there own license built MiG 15s. Lavochkin also built some odd designs in the 40s Inc a fighter with staggered tandem jets. I think this was the La 174? How about a prog about the Soviet rocket fighters like the BI 1 and MiG I 270? That'd be cool because one never heard anything about them. Thanks to anyone who reads this and shares my passion for unusual and groundbreaking aircraft.
Excellent contribution....after watching the video I was impressed....I congratulate you for your work.....I am passionate about MS 262...continue like this...I recommend your channel to my friends... thanks, greetings from Mexico
That cut away Jumo engine can still be seen at the National Air Force museum in Dayton Ohio; displayed in front of a complete ME262 plane. Great museum full of historical planes from every era. Free admission, takes a couple days to see it all; is located in the old base hangers of Wright Field. The new base, Wright-Patterson Airforce base, was built next to it.
I live not far from Payne Field where the 262 project was. Imagine my shock when one day I’m out in my yard and a 262 comes roaring overhead. Talk about stunned ! Used to watch for them a lot after I found out about the project and was able to see them fly often. Amazing.
There was another issue. There were a lot of punctures of the nosewheel tyres and when they were building the 'new' ones, they discovered that the front wasn't stiff enough and it enabled the nosewheel to slide sideways on landing sometimes which was enough to break the tyres!
The Me-262 A-1a fighter was named Die Schwalbe ("Swallow"), the fighter-bomber variant (Me-262 A-2a) was named Die Sturmvogel ("Storm bird"). The two types are/were not identical. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262
The Flying Heritage and Combat Armor Museum was in the process of restoring an authentic ME-262, Wk.nr. 500453, with rebuilt, and modernized, Jumo 004 engines. They where in the Taxi trials when the project was shutdown with the passing of Paul Allen, who was the bankrolling the restoration. The plane was broken back down and is now stored in the shuttered museum, along with the Stuka that was about 75% done in its resto to flight status. Hope they can finish these exciting projects.
There was another ME-262 tested along with T2-711, T2-4012 T2-4012 flew 8 times for a total of 4 hours and 40 minutes while T2-711 served as the main aircraft for the handling and performance tests and flew 12 times for a total of 10 hours and 40 minutes. During the 20 test flights at Wright Field during 1945-46, 711 required five engine changes and 4012 needed four. The 711 only flew a total of 13 times, including its defection from the factory. The crash of 711 along with two single engine landings by 4012 was the end of testing on the ME-262's There's a report entitled Evaluation of the Me-262 (Project No. NAD-29) released Febuary 1947 if you wanna read more.
One interesting note was that there was no attempt at testing single-engine behavior due to so many engine failures. There was no actual comparison testing with other aircraft, such as the P-80A.
The ”Schwalbe” / ”Sturmvogel” is without doubt one of the most beautifully sculpted warplanes of all times. No matter what ideology and what regime was in power in the country at the time it was created. The plane is a beauty.
@@averylividmoose3599 The Me 262 had 18,5 degree sweep in the wings because of center of gravity issues (the engines were in wing pods). Even more sweep was planned in HG 2 and 3 prototypes and studies, HG 1 prototype flew being mostly an aerodynamic refinement of the original 262, HG 2 was built just before the war ended but was probably damaged in bombing raid or in an accident. The reliability and poor quality of the engines (and in many cases the airframe) was due to the conditions of building and assembling the plane. Slave labor was used to assemble the planes and engines and sabotage was not unknown factor. And there was the lack of heat-resistant materials that hampered building engines that would last a bit longer. After the war Czechoslovakian Avia built their version of Me 262 called Avia S-92 ”Turbina”. Its engines were assumedly built with a bit better materials as the flight time between overhauls is told to be around 60 hours. Only about a dozen were built, however.
@@amanhasnoname3462 Their was a post war AMERICA article assessing Me-262 [ JOHN FORSTER managing editor of AVIATION ] ]and it reported that high heat resistant steels had been developed for JUMO-004 jet engine ; allowing bench tests of 500 hours translating into est 150 hours service. By comparison JUMO-004A had bench tested @ 100 hours translating into hypothetical service life of 35 hours....however that assumed ~ 3 service stops of ~ 10 flying hours , with last one including X RAYS to check for cracks at factory ....Needless to say with a collapsing war economy against Allied Air Dominance ,mostly one 'factory stop' was viable and realistic. t also should be noted that SLAVE LABOUR was used extensively and probably contributed to poor quality of most late war weapons.
@@paullakowski2509 hmmm heat resistant metals, maybe ore supplies that coming in from Sweden and Norway until the allies curtailed such shipments completely by late 1943. maybe molybdenum which was sourced out from Sweden and Norway
@@eddiea5076 thanks that's enough to go on for now. GOT the impression such alloying materials as Chrome and Nickel were needed for good heat treatment steels. ...then again the article refers "development of a new alloy of excellent heat treating qualities had made it possible to get up to 150 hr service in actual flight tests,and up to 500 hr on the test stand." [pp23 of 40].
this is a great video about a wonderful aircraft. just one thing. the Sturmvogel/Stormbird was the strike fighter variant. the Schwalbe/swallow was the actual name for the early ones and the ones with rocket assisted takeoff that were made for intercepting very late in the war were the Heimatschuetzer/Homeprotector
The Texas Airplane Factory, located in Ft Worth Texas, was also in the process of building 3 Me-262 replicas using reverse engineering back in the 1990s. I toured their facilities and still have the golf shirt souvenir I bought during the tour. I have no idea what became of them, but my understanding is that they did complete at least two of the aircraft, one of which was sent to Germany (under the ownership of the Messerschmidt family?). At the time they were also planning to build some reverse-engineered FW-190 Doras as well...
I was keeping up on this project at the time. Somehow, they were not able to do the job and everything went to Everett, WA at Pain Field. That is where they completed all 5 of the aircraft.
The airframes were completed and shipped to Manching Germany for Assembly and testing by Messerschmitt now part of Air Bus. One is still there one went to the Deutches Museum and the other returned to the US
@@michaelshore2300 Testing and assembly was done at Classic Fighter Industries in Washington State before customer delivery. The Messerschmitt Museum in Germany purchased one of the examples and it remains part of their flying aircraft collection.
I heard from another film that the ME-262 jet engines could not be built properly because the Germans during the war lacked the right heat resistant engine components to give the aircraft increased flight time. Mainly because of the allied bombing on German factories during WW2.
Kinda embarrassing that they almost crashed it on the first U.S. test flight, just because somebody didn't figure out that you had to compensate for taking 5-hundred FREAKING POUNDS out of the nose!
+ CPFS The Me-262 surrendered by Fey did crash in Ohio in 1947 during a comparison flight with a P-80. It suffered an engine failure or fire and the pilot had to bail out.
The ME262 seen at 5min50 is "Red 8", a 2 seater night fighter. It is currently on display at the National Museum of Military History in Johannesburg, South Africa - it has been very well preserved (unlike the Mosquito) and worth a visit if venturing to "Seffrica" (Previous comment was removed by TH-cam after I put in a link with the interesting history on how Red 8 landed up in RSA)
6:40 it took 30 minutes to changed one engine on the ME262. In one documentary an American mechanic said it would take them several days to changed one of their engines on their plane, can’t remember what plane he was refer to
The alleged delays caused by converting Me262 to bombing was not as serious as some suggest. Early models had tail dragger undercarriage that seriously messed up ground handling. Redesign with tricycle landing gear caused huge delays.
An American officer, who collected advanced German weapons after the war, was told by the former German crew, that a skilled crew could change an engine in half an hour, even in the field, so the short life time of an engine wasn't that essential. I wonder how much time it took to change an engine on a Meteor? But both start and landing was was at low speed, and that was the vulnerable time, where most got shut down.
Switzerland got a Me262 on 25.4.1945 when HG Mutke defected with one to Switzerland. Mainly the turbine was disected by BBC (they had a comercial Gasturbine built in 1938 (GT Neuenburg) and a Gasturbine Locomotive in 1943 ( Am 4/6 1101)) after the study it was given back to Germany. It is now in Schleissheim it was used as the prototype for the reconstruction effort refered in the video.
@@mikeholland1031 You are mistaken you want to insult my Granddad you are insulting me. Learn real history first before you go around insulting people.
@@mikeholland1031Obviously you dont know otherwise you would not talking like that. There were a few Nazis in Switzerland some of them were executed for treason. BTW there were Nazis in the US too! So no my granddad stood firm at the border to prevent an Nazi German attack. Switzerland was surrounded by the Axis and had to trade with them otherwise the people would have starved to death. But they could not trade with the Allies because how could they send anything to them through axis lands?
@@felixtheswiss actually I feel kinda bad for saying that. Your grandad was probably.a.great guy and you too. It just pisses me.off when ppl claim Switzerland was neutral. They supplied the nazis with oil, fuel, hard to find raw materials, optics, electronics and plenty of other stuff that the german war machine would have stopped without. Swiss banks bought up all that plundered gold too. An important german ally
No matter how one put it and what evil power is behind it: the Me262 is an iconic plane. As is the A4 / V2 for ballistic missiles. And - also - a symbol for missed occasions and not grasping the chance. But what. One needs to be first in history.
It still looks as good as any jets flying today, I think it had an ejector seat but I'm not sure. Also compare the sleek shape of the Jumo engine nacelle with the bulbous engines on the Meteor, axial flow engine vs centrifugal engine. So none of the US test staff thought of ballasting the 262 after the removal of the heavy guns particularly from the nose? Almost cost the test pilot his life.
Yes, the 262 had an ejector seat. So did the Heinkel Volksfighter and some later model FW 190's but these were fitted at squadron level, not at the factory.
If none of the US test staff thought of ballasting the 262 after removal of the HEAVY guns one wonders how they managed to tie their shoelaces in the morning……..
If anyone is wondering about the delay caused by hitler the plane could have been operational by 1942. But Hitler wanted to be a multi role fighter meaning they had to redesign the whole plane.
My Grandfather was a B-17G pilot over Germany in WW2 and he told me what it was like to see the 262s and Comets. I was also close personal friends with USAAF Major Urban Ben Drew who killed two 262s in a single engagement by diving his Mustang into compressability and near the speed of sound over Achmer Airfield. Heady times. WW2 started on horseback and with bolt action rifles...ending with Jets and Atomic bombs.
@Donald Johnson says the non Pilot. Puh-leeeze! I've had ROTOR BLADES at nearly the speed of sound! When compressability in his dive made him lose elevator authority and then she'd ALL of his wing ammo access panels in the pullout? He was there.
Interesting history, a great airplane, and beautiful German design. -- Carl Von Clausewitz, a Prussian general and military theorist said; “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means.” and “war is not merely an act of policy, but a true political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse carried on with other means.” -- Other Means = Violence, Death and Destruction.
Spare parts for messerschmidt came to a abrupt end in 1948 when the russians dynamited a huge Stock of spare parts for the me-109 and me-262 , during the war there where an aircraft plant in checoslowakia that made parts for these 2 messerschmidts
The ME-262 was not delayed by Hitler - at least not to the extend often told in numerous publications. From the outset it was prepared to carry bombs. It was simply not mature before it went into operational state, mainly due to problems with the Engines caused by not having access to the alloys that would be required to make them more reliant. A great description can be seen here: th-cam.com/video/SDYHd1PuR5U/w-d-xo.html
@@mikeholland1031 A common myth that has been debunked many times Military history Visualised does a great video debunking this and being a native German speaker he was able to read the original archive material.
The real reason was that it simply wasn´t ready before it actually came into operational duty, and still then there where alot of problems with it. It wasn´t a high priority project before late into the war. Generally the Fighter units of the Luftwaffe was not the most favoured part, simply because it was deemed a defensive branch of the luftwaffe. Especially after the battle of Brittain, where Göring had promised air superiority by the fighter force, which they never got, they where not highly regarded. So it was not Hitler alone that caused the debacle about whether the Me-262 should be a pure fighter or a fighter bomber, but the German high command as a whole.
Thank`s for sharing, nice report ! In my humble opinion, it`s only pro was the fact it was the first Jet fighter, it was a real mess, bad engine, bad aeronautics, bad pilot position and fragil airframe, etc... Until April 1945 ME262 shot down 27 allie planes, but 31 MEs were lost!! Nevertheless, it was a real era change on aviation!!
I've never understood the worship of the 262. A direct contemporary, the P80, along with its direct derivatives T33 and F94, were in service for 50 years. The 262, even with post war derivatives, was in service for like 6 years.
The early 262's had a top speed of 540, the late 568. The late 004's had a 25 hour overhaul rate which was better than some piston engines from the period.
the pistons engines had more than 300hours overhaul rate not 25...and many turbo jets did explode before the 25 hours...not forgott that the fuel regulation was manual, and pumping from the engine = 50% chances to explode...
@@leneanderthalien Yes all part of the Germans were great Myth . British Gas Turbines about the same 200 hours And surprise Top speed 540 MPH same as Vampire ??
The answer to your question is "nothing". Nazi Germany didn't have the fuel supplies to support large scale operations of gas guzzling jet aircraft. Mom and Dad can buy you the nicest toys ever, but if they forget to buy batteries it's still going to be a disappointing Christmas.
The Junkers Jumo engines had a 10 hour operational life before an engine swap. So some simple mathematics; a Rolls Royce Merlin engine had an operational life span of about 20 hours; so P 51's and Spitfire engines outlasted the Junkers Jumo Engine. The Me 262 was designed to have a very fast engine swap time with the engines being bolted under the wing. I still love the Mosquito; I wonder how that would have gone with a couple of Junkers Jumo engines!
The 262's engines were not as good as contemporary Allied engines the UK built the Metrovik F2 in 1941 like the German BMW 003 and the Jumo 004 it was also an Axial flow engine and although it was rejected for use due to short engine lifespan not only was it more reliable than the German Engines but still not up to an acceptable level for the UK it produced considerably more thrust than the German engines and had a better Thrust to weight ratio. The Metrovik F2 produced 11kn (2400lbf) compared to the BMW 003 7.8kn (1760lbf) and the Jumo 004s 8.8kn (1980lbf). The Metrovik F2 significantly better thrust to weight ratio of 1.6+ compared to the 1.13 of the BMW and 1.25 of the Jumo.
@@jonsouth1545 The Brits were miles behind Germany when it came to Jet engine design and Utility! After all Hans Von Ohain had a jet aircraft flying before WW2. Tungsten and Titanium were the secret ingredients. After WW2 nobody wanted Whittle's Engine! It doesn't even look like a Jet engine!
Czechoslovakia didn't used different designation for Me-262 because it was german. After the war they gave every plane appearing in their air focre, no matter if from germans or allies, their own designation. S - Stíhač (Fighter) CS - Cvičný stíhač (Fighter Trainer) C - Cvičný (Trainer) B - Bombardér (Bomber) D - Dopravní (Transport) K - Kurýrní (Reconnisance) Some examples La-5 was known as S 95 La-7 as S 97 Spitfire as S 89 Bf-109 as S 99 Jumo version of Bf-109 as S 199 Fw-190 as S 90 MiG-15 as S 102
Yes, you can look at hardware and often copy it. But the real "know how" falls with the scientists, engineers, and designers, and asking them about the decisions they made, and why, and how they would improve upon them. The true mind behind the German jet engine was Hans Von Ohain. He and his team came to Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio after the war, where they continued their research. He later became a professor at the University of Dayton. Info is here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Ohain
Ohain had nothing to do with any German or any other Gas turbine that was produced, he built one engine after being given the Whittle patents by the German Air ministry Authority Ohain's assistant on German TV about 2000
Americans find the cockpit cramped an difficult to look over the shoulder.. a potential lethal situation in a dog fight... - Go never in dogfight (NIE im Kurvenkampf gehen! GER) - Always stay fast, hit and run tactics, keep momentum, the engines like speed, stick to MMO.
I saw the Me262 Fly at the family day Event at EADS (European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company) which is the sucessor of Messerschmitt and part of Airbus now.
Yeager wrote that the performance of the two were similar....but the 262 was almost impossible to turn at speed. The P-80 had hydraulically boosted ailerons. That would be decisive in a dogfight with equal pilots.
The ME-262 was truly advanced for its time, but its time came too late to have much of an effect. The engines had a life of around 20 hours, compared to the more rugged piston engines of that era. It was also slow to take off and land, which made it a sitting duck for any P-47's or P-51 Mustangs to shoot it down. The fuel had to be specially made, and while it was faster than anything else at that time, and while the German pilots did manage to score a number of victories against Allied aircraft, it came too little, too late. As someone else said, only about 300 ever got produced, and not many got into the air vis-à-vis the huge number of Allied aircraft that flew missions over Germany late in the war. What the ME-262 represented was the next step in jet fighter technology, which the Americans, Russians, and Brits, used. (The Meteor, though, was an excellent jet fighter for its time).
The largest number of 262s in the air at one time was about 55, in late April of 1945. On a day when there were about 4000 Allied aircraft flying over Germany.
The 262's engines were not as good as contemporary Allied engines the UK built the Metrovik F2 in 1941 like the German BMW 003 and the Jumo 004 it was also an Axial flow engine and although it was rejected for use due to short engine lifespan not only was it more reliable than the German Engines but still not up to an acceptable level for the UK it produced considerably more thrust than the German engines and had a better Thrust to weight ratio. The Metrovik F2 produced 11kn (2400lbf) compared to the BMW 003 7.8kn (1760lbf) and the Jumo 004s 8.8kn (1980lbf). The Metrovik F2 significantly better thrust to weight ratio of 1.6+ compared to the 1.13 of the BMW and 1.25 of the Jumo.
Interesting fact is they were the last planes together with the Arado's the German's could fly because they were the only ones they still had fuel for.
People should remember that Brits and Americans had jet powered aircraft before the end of the war, too. All jets, at that time, were horribly unreliable, so the Allies decided they were not needed to win, and they were correct. What the Germans had was a jet with an axial turbine engines. Even if the Germans had a thousand ME262's they would have still lost.
The Americans had P-80 Shooting Stars in Europe in 1945. Technically the first jet vs jet combat was the shooting down of V-1’s by Gloster Meteors in 1944.
@@allangibson2408 The F3 model of the Meteor which was the main production model of the time was 40mph faster than the 262 it had almost double the rate of climb and had 2000 meter higher service ceiling compared to the production models of the 262.
The Allies had Axial Flow engines before the War ended as well - the Westinghouse J30, J32 and J34, the GE J35 and T31 turboprops were all running, and the Lockheed and Northrop axials under development were close to running. In Britain, the Metrovick F.2 and Armstron Siddeley AS.X were all running before 1945.
@@peterstickney7608 There was nothing inherently wrong with centrifugal compressors - particularly for lower power operating conditions, they are immune to compressor stall and foreign object ingestion to a large degree (and all the earliest ones had debris screens). Axial flow engines have a smaller frontal area but are very vulnerable to debris from unpaved runways…
The RAF moved Gloster Meteors over to mainland Europe, keen to take on the 262s. Previously they had been kept in the UK to prevent any chance of one being downed over German held territory. VE day came before such a meeting could happen.
B S The first P.1065 V1 Me-262 test airframe was fitted with a Jumo 210 piston engine in the nose. But I cannot figure out that single turbine unless someone has been doctoring the picture. Or if it is photoshopped.
His postwar career was uneventful. After the war, Me262 spent some time kicking around on GI benefits, trying to make sense and get over it all, before taking a job as a pattern maker at a metal fabrication shop. He worked his way up to journeyman millwright, but the field quickly bored him, so he decided to try carpentry instead, and eventually opened his own construction company, taking advantage of the post Korean War housing boom. Ohhhh, you mean that OTHER Me262! My bad.
Actually..all 262s in Czechoslowakia were put together from parts and grounded aircrafts that were left all over country. There was no real production.
By 1945 all nations had something remarkable in their military that the others did not have....Germany had advanced rocket tech and some advanced submarine tech...The Soviets had some very strong Fighter planes and Tanks that were nearly impenetrable...The UK had radar and Naval and Air Force tech...Ive heard that War speedily pushes tech advances in all areas...
I read Hitler originally insisted that the ME262 be developed as a bomber, had he not interfered and the ME 262 was introduced earlier in a fighter role, the Allied Bombers might have suffered a lot more.
It wasn't so simple. In 1943, Adolph Galland begged Hitler to stop production of the BF109 completely and concentrate on the FW 190 and the ME262 but Hilter never thought the 262 would be necessary and so refused to allocate more resources to it's development. Goering deferred to Hilter as he didn't have a clue anyway and was high on morphine most of the time. By mid 1944, the Luftwaffe had been almost destroyed as an effective fighting force and while aircraft production continued to increase, there simply weren't enough trained pilots to fly them. Not enough fuel either...
What do you mean by evil ??, the Versailles treaty 1919 ?? what had brought a hole nation in to starvation. Great documentary, I liked it and good job done.
It didn't have any effect, only the Czechs tried to build a copy and gave it up. The Allies especially the British had had more advanced engines and the wing sweep was not enough to improve aerodynamics.
The tail wheel was removed because the pilot had to apply a short brake action to elevate the tail during take off. Kinda dangerous with unreliable early jet engines.
I wonder why the U.S. used a B-17 bomber pilot to test fly the 262? I would have thought they would have used a fighter pilot. If it was because the 262 had 2 engines, they could have used a P-38 pilot.
That pilot would have been a skilled test pilot. Not some random B-17 pilot. I’ll guess his multiengine experience was a factor in being the first American to fly the 262
A fighter pilot is more likely to bail out quickly in case of an emergency (because it is easier) loosing the precious test aircraft, on the other hand bomber pilots would try to nurse their stricken aircraft down safely saving the aircraft (pilots would have to stay until all the crew had bailed out). This is just a thought that came into my head and most likely wrong.
@@anthonyxuereb792 No, I think your answer makes sense. The air force did want bomber pilots who were a little older than fighter pilots. That was done for the same reasons you point out.
ME 262 came too late in the war as it needed not just material that Germany did not have but also more time to get the design correct. Also, it was not delayed by Hitler.
Leaving 4 30mm cannon out of the nose must hve given an horrendously aft C of G situation. I'm surprised it didn't revert to a taildragger, (The original configuration for the design.)
well... correction. korean war american jet engines didnt have any longer service life so it clearly wasnt the shortage of materials that made engines had only 20 hours life
10: 53 and 12:55 - It's not "LUHFT-va-fa," it's "LOOFT-va-fa." (Like Lufthansa: "LOOFT-han-sa." Luft means "air," or sometimes "breath.") 12:35 The German J takes a sound like an English "Y," so it's not pronounced "junkers," but "yoonkers." (The U makes the same sound as in "luft.") An excellent presentation; lots of excellent research and stills/video.
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As a German I am immensly confused by this Comment :)
@ I suppose it helps if you read it using an English pronunciation guide. Deutschers already know how to pronounce Deutsch, ja? I'm not so sure about this video's well-meaning narrator, so I'm trying to help him in his native language.
The Me 262 engines had just 15 hours of flight time. Many had nothing close. Rolls-Royce jets used a radial compressor based on the Merlin supercharger were far more reliable.
A radial compressor is fine for small aircraft engines or stationary engines. For powerful aircraft engines the axial compressor has many advantages, not least of all the smaller frontal area. Why do you think that practically all modern aircraft engines have axial compressors? Furthermore, many of these engines have seen more than 20,000 hours of usage.
@@BasementEngineer You miss the point Everyone, including Whittle, knew that Axial flow was potentially better but could not make it work. Whittle was far more Practical and designed and built is first engine long before the Merlin.
The production model of the Meteor the F3 was 40mph faster than the 262 most people compare the Meteor F1 to the 262 but the F1 was the prototype with only 20 made that saw limited service. While the production model was the F3 that entered service late 44 less than 5 months after the 262 and was capable of over 600mph as well as being a stable gun platform and having a service ceiling almost 2000 meters higher and almost double the rate of climb of the 262. The F1 was more comparable to the Me 262 V1 as they were both similar stage prototypes not really meant for combat. The production 262 was thoroughly outclassed by the F3 model of the Meteor.
The F3 wasn't 600mph fast, certainly not the production models of 44 and 45 that could have met 262s. The 262 was at her time faster than the Meteor but probably less maneuverable and certainly less reliable due to the Jumo 004B production engines. Also for fighter dogfights probably the 20mm canons of the Meteor were better suited than the short barrel 30mm of the 262. But the airframe of the 262 was the all over better design. Also you should take in count already planned upgraded versions of the 262 which as per design features would have easily been a match for later Meteor versions. End of War (fortunately) end very poor supply situation of late-war Germany brought those plans to a halt. Well and then there are the other quite advanced designs of Tank, Messerschmitt and Horten. I read very often dismissive opinions about the 262 especially from Brits but also similar bad opinions from Germans about the Meteor. The truth is both aircraft were definitely comparable, both were great designs and especially those two (plus the Arado and possibly the P80) signalled the dawn of the piston fighters!
@@wanderschlosser1857 The F3 reached 606mph on 25th September 1945 it regularly did 600 in 1944-45 even without the upgraded engines that only came in after the first batch of F3's the new pylons of the F3 solved the compressibility issues of the F1 and increased the top speed by 70mph. The Meteor F3 also had almost double the climb rate of the 262 and had a 2km higher service ceiling. With the faster climb rate and better energy retention, the Meteor could clean the clock of the 262.
@@jonsouth1545 I found it was in November 45 when the F3 did the first official jet airspeed record with 606 mph. That was the version with longer engine nacelles and possibly Derwent IV engines both soon after used in the F4 (edited from F3) version and it certainly was a stripped down record aircraft, not a combat ready version. And all of that was well after the war finished. At the end of the war there was no Meteor even close to the 262 speed. Rate of climb of a standard F3: 3980 ft/min, 262: 3900 ft/min. So yes F3's rate of climb was better, but just marginally, not double! But the main point is that 262 and Meteor have been tested against each other with the result that both 262 and He 162 had better combat performance. That was stated by no one less than Eric Brown. He said: "the Me-262 and the He-162 would have made cat’s meat of the Gloster Meteor had they ever met in combat." And you can trust this guy knew what he was talking about!
@@wanderschlosser1857 The one that did 606 was modified but 600 had been done multiple times earlier by production aircraft. And Adolf Galland and several others like Sailor Malan and Pierre Cloustermann or George Beurling who also flew both vastly preferred the Meteor and while Eric Brown was a fantastic test pilot his record as a combat pilot was mediocre. Eric Brown was arguably the greatest test pilot ever but he only had 2 recorded kills a pair of FW200s in July 41 and never fought in any major air battle in his entire career so when it comes to actual combat people like Sailor Malan, Piere Clostermann, etc who were some of the RAFs leading aces have a more relevant opinion.
@@jonsouth1545 There was no production version of the Meteor in 44 or first half of 45 that reached 600 mph and that's a fact. If you are so sure of your claim then come up with a few sources, I couldn't find any! Galland preferred the 262 over the Meteor but would have liked to have the Meteors RR engines in it. He also said the 262 was faster. And that Eric Brown didn't have more air to air kills is for the very simple fact that he was a Navy test pilot and not a RAF fighter pilot in combat service. It doesn't say anything about his knowledge about the aircraft and his competence to judge combat capabilities of aircraft he himself flew and tested. Yes there were faster Meteors than the 262 but not at the same time line. The comparison you do is like comparing the BF-109E with the Spitfire Mk V or IX instead of the Mk II. It just doesn't fit!
One quick correction: the aircraft built by the 262 Project are *not* replicas. They are licensed by the Messeschmitt Family with continuation serial numbers. They are real, if slightly updated Me-262s.
I did not know that. Thanks for sharing such valuable information.
Cool!
Indeed. These new-built Me 262s were slightly upgraded and they were equipped with readily available, more modern and reliable General Electric CJ610 engines. Oh boy these planes fly beautifully in air shows!
IMHO Me 262 would have benefitted of air brakes as slowing down the plane to landing speed during the landing circle was very slow.
@@amanhasnoname3462 Landing Me 262s were vulnerable to Allied fighters - which underlines your point on air brakes.
You bomb a country to the ground and after the war care if Messerschmitt allows you a licenses or not to copy their aircraft?
The fact that German engineers could construct a jet turbine engine from mild steel ( not specialist alloys ) and make it last for 20 hours before a rebuild is a testament to their skill.
I was more amazzed a Country of only 70 million could fight off the USSR ,USA and UK for 4 years.
@@Crashed131963
Considering that they were preparing for war for 20 years when everyone else was preparing at the last moment, it's not really difficult to see how they held off.
Once the Allies got prepared, they curb-stomped the Germans.
@@youraveragescotsman7119 The Germans had no planes, tanks, u-boats or even a military before 1933 and they converted to full war economy in mid 1943. Stop pulling figures out of your arse buddy.
@@shabibhaider From the time of the dsigning of the Treaty of Versailles, the German Government, Military, and Industry had been preparing for the next war, building cadres to fill out the leadership ranks in a rapid expansion of the Heer, moving weapon development to hidden subsidiaries in neutral countries, working with the Soviets to create aviation and armor/mechanized training bases in Russia.
It's worth noting that the German Navy had openly started defying the treaty limitations before the Nazis came to power, with the development and construction of the Panzershiff (Pocket Battleships), and that Wehrner von Braun and his compatriots were recruited by the Weimar Republic's German Army for rocket weapon development in 1931.
Note as well, that despite the limits of the Treaty of Versailles, in 1931 _and_ 1933, the German Army was larger than the U.S. Army.
@@Crashed131963 absolutely, the German armed forces were the best in the world. Rob UK.
Great prog. Only one important fact missing and that is that a genuine WWII Me 262 A has been restored with its original Junkers Jumo 004 engines to flying condition. The project was about 90% finished the last time I checked. The Jumo powerplants have been suitably upgraded in terms of materials and fuel supply , as has the problematic undercarriage, but it is totally original and was a serving Luftwaffe fighter of WWII. Check it out. Also the Sukhoi Su 9 and 11 ( not to be confused with the later supersonic fighters of the same numerics) were straight surfaced a/c unlike the 262 with its radical swept wing and tail surfaces. The main two Soviet initial jets,were the Yak 15 and the twin BMW 003 powered MiG 9 F. The Yak wasn't as daft an idea as it seemed. Being basically a Yak 3 with a Jumo 004 and the original taildragger u/c (albeit with a solid steel tailwheel because of the hot jet efflux) meant it was ideal for average skilled service pilots to convert to jets on as it flew in much the same way as it's piston engined forbears. Better in most ways and without any assymetric torque pull from the prop. It was developed into the Yak 17 with trike u/c and finally into the Yak 23 which both the Czechs and Polish AF used before they used there own license built MiG 15s. Lavochkin also built some odd designs in the 40s Inc a fighter with staggered tandem jets. I think this was the La 174?
How about a prog about the Soviet rocket fighters like the BI 1 and MiG I 270? That'd be cool because one never heard anything about them. Thanks to anyone who reads this and shares my passion for unusual and groundbreaking aircraft.
Yeah, they had it taxiing
Thx for the info.
The museum with it closed, unless you mean one other than the one in washington
I´ve read about that some years ago but lost track of it, can you give a link where I can read more about this project?
Sounds like original knife with 3 new blades and 2 handles.
Excellent contribution....after watching the video I was impressed....I congratulate you for your work.....I am passionate about MS 262...continue like this...I recommend your channel to my friends... thanks, greetings from Mexico
That cut away Jumo engine can still be seen at the National Air Force museum in Dayton Ohio; displayed in front of a complete ME262 plane.
Great museum full of historical planes from every era. Free admission, takes a couple days to see it all; is located in the old base hangers of Wright Field.
The new base, Wright-Patterson Airforce base, was built next to it.
I live not far from Payne Field where the 262 project was. Imagine my shock when one day I’m out in my yard and a 262 comes roaring overhead. Talk about stunned ! Used to watch for them a lot after I found out about the project and was able to see them fly often. Amazing.
There was another issue. There were a lot of punctures of the nosewheel tyres and when they were building the 'new' ones, they discovered that the front wasn't stiff enough and it enabled the nosewheel to slide sideways on landing sometimes which was enough to break the tyres!
The Me-262 A-1a fighter was named Die Schwalbe ("Swallow"), the fighter-bomber variant (Me-262 A-2a) was named Die Sturmvogel ("Storm bird"). The two types are/were not identical. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262
The Flying Heritage and Combat Armor Museum was in the process of restoring an authentic ME-262, Wk.nr. 500453, with rebuilt, and modernized, Jumo 004 engines. They where in the Taxi trials when the project was shutdown with the passing of Paul Allen, who was the bankrolling the restoration. The plane was broken back down and is now stored in the shuttered museum, along with the Stuka that was about 75% done in its resto to flight status. Hope they can finish these exciting projects.
impressive. very nice...
@@CLK944 The museum collection now has new owner. Paul Allen had provided funding for the museum from his estate, but his heir made changes.
There was another ME-262 tested along with T2-711, T2-4012
T2-4012 flew 8 times for a total of 4 hours and 40 minutes while T2-711 served as the main aircraft for the handling and performance tests and flew 12 times for a total of 10 hours and 40 minutes. During the 20 test flights at Wright Field during 1945-46, 711 required five engine changes and 4012 needed four. The 711 only flew a total of 13 times, including its defection from the factory. The crash of 711 along with two single engine landings by 4012 was the end of testing on the ME-262's
There's a report entitled Evaluation of the Me-262 (Project No. NAD-29) released Febuary 1947 if you wanna read more.
One interesting note was that there was no attempt at testing single-engine behavior due to so many engine failures.
There was no actual comparison testing with other aircraft, such as the P-80A.
The ”Schwalbe” / ”Sturmvogel” is without doubt one of the most beautifully sculpted warplanes of all times. No matter what ideology and what regime was in power in the country at the time it was created. The plane is a beauty.
Shame it didnt have swept wings and was vulnerable to literally imploding if you werent careful
@@averylividmoose3599 The Me 262 had 18,5 degree sweep in the wings because of center of gravity issues (the engines were in wing pods). Even more sweep was planned in HG 2 and 3 prototypes and studies, HG 1 prototype flew being mostly an aerodynamic refinement of the original 262, HG 2 was built just before the war ended but was probably damaged in bombing raid or in an accident.
The reliability and poor quality of the engines (and in many cases the airframe) was due to the conditions of building and assembling the plane. Slave labor was used to assemble the planes and engines and sabotage was not unknown factor. And there was the lack of heat-resistant materials that hampered building engines that would last a bit longer.
After the war Czechoslovakian Avia built their version of Me 262 called Avia S-92 ”Turbina”. Its engines were assumedly built with a bit better materials as the flight time between overhauls is told to be around 60 hours. Only about a dozen were built, however.
@@amanhasnoname3462 Their was a post war AMERICA article assessing Me-262 [ JOHN FORSTER managing editor of AVIATION ] ]and it reported that high heat resistant steels had been developed for JUMO-004 jet engine ; allowing bench tests of 500 hours translating into est 150 hours service. By comparison JUMO-004A had bench tested @ 100 hours translating into hypothetical service life of 35 hours....however that assumed ~ 3 service stops of ~ 10 flying hours , with last one including X RAYS to check for cracks at factory
....Needless to say with a collapsing war economy against Allied Air Dominance ,mostly one 'factory stop' was viable and realistic.
t also should be noted that SLAVE LABOUR was used extensively and probably contributed to poor quality of most late war weapons.
@@paullakowski2509 hmmm heat resistant metals, maybe ore supplies that coming in from Sweden and Norway until the allies curtailed such shipments completely by late 1943.
maybe molybdenum which was sourced out from Sweden and Norway
@@eddiea5076 thanks that's enough to go on for now. GOT the impression such alloying materials as Chrome and Nickel were needed for good heat treatment steels. ...then again the article refers
"development of a new alloy of excellent heat treating qualities had made it possible to get up to 150 hr service in actual flight tests,and up to 500 hr on the test stand." [pp23 of 40].
After all these years, it's still looks badass. They have one here at the Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton.
Looks sooo bad no one ever bothered to copy it
Thank you for sharing this with the viewers.
Excellent work Sir
Excellent essay. Especially the post war period. Really interesting. Please keep up the really excellent work!
Really interesting and well researched video. Thank you.
Very good story on a little-known chapter in the post-war life of the Me-262. Very enjoyable.
The best channel and the finest content love you all , keep up the good work ❤❤
It looked like a flying shark. Bloody cool plane. Pure genius.
Fascinating. Thank you for your work.
this is a great video about a wonderful aircraft. just one thing. the Sturmvogel/Stormbird was the strike fighter variant. the Schwalbe/swallow was the actual name for the early ones and the ones with rocket assisted takeoff that were made for intercepting very late in the war were the Heimatschuetzer/Homeprotector
It's nice to hear someone giving the correct designation to the BF 109.
Absolutely mind bending how it was engineered and built under the circumstances. Like the south building ironclads in cornfields.
The Texas Airplane Factory, located in Ft Worth Texas, was also in the process of building 3 Me-262 replicas using reverse engineering back in the 1990s. I toured their facilities and still have the golf shirt souvenir I bought during the tour. I have no idea what became of them, but my understanding is that they did complete at least two of the aircraft, one of which was sent to Germany (under the ownership of the Messerschmidt family?). At the time they were also planning to build some reverse-engineered FW-190 Doras as well...
The ME-262 Project bought the assets and assemblies and built the flying 262s from that.
I was keeping up on this project at the time. Somehow, they were not able to do the job and everything went to Everett, WA at Pain Field. That is where they completed all 5 of the aircraft.
The airframes were completed and shipped to Manching Germany for Assembly and testing by Messerschmitt now part of Air Bus. One is still there one went to the Deutches Museum and the other returned to the US
@@michaelshore2300 Testing and assembly was done at Classic Fighter Industries in Washington State before customer delivery. The Messerschmitt Museum in Germany purchased one of the examples and it remains part of their flying aircraft collection.
@@FiveCentsPlease Odd I saw some beeing Assembled and tested in the Messerschmitt Factory at Manching Ingolstadt Germany
I heard from another film that the ME-262 jet engines could not be built properly because the Germans during the war lacked the right heat resistant engine components to give the aircraft increased flight time. Mainly because of the allied bombing on German factories during WW2.
That's what the bombing was for.
I like how you say "two engines and no propeller while exactly showing me a picture with two engines and one propeller.
Kinda embarrassing that they almost crashed it on the first U.S. test flight, just because somebody didn't figure out that you had to compensate for taking 5-hundred FREAKING POUNDS out of the nose!
+ CPFS The Me-262 surrendered by Fey did crash in Ohio in 1947 during a comparison flight with a P-80. It suffered an engine failure or fire and the pilot had to bail out.
The ME262 seen at 5min50 is "Red 8", a 2 seater night fighter.
It is currently on display at the National Museum of Military History in Johannesburg, South Africa - it has been very well preserved (unlike the Mosquito) and worth a visit if venturing to "Seffrica"
(Previous comment was removed by TH-cam after I put in a link with the interesting history on how Red 8 landed up in RSA)
Excellent content about the chapter of this war bird I didn't know about - keep up the good work.
6:40 it took 30 minutes to changed one engine on the ME262. In one documentary an American mechanic said it would take them several days to changed one of their engines on their plane, can’t remember what plane he was refer to
That's about how long it takes to change a VW Beetle engine.
I know that an F-16 engine can be changed in ~8 hrs.
The mécanique in the documentry said basically the engines were bolted on to the wings if the ME262.
@@paulsawczyc5019 seen guys do them in few minutes
@@mikeholland1031 I can see that if there are 2 mechanics, no rusty/stuck bolts, and lots of open space - like a dune buggy.
The alleged delays caused by converting Me262 to bombing was not as serious as some suggest. Early models had tail dragger undercarriage that seriously messed up ground handling. Redesign with tricycle landing gear caused huge delays.
the problem with the taildragger me 262 was not the ground handling but the take off roll distance who was way too long...
I seem to recall that Howard Hughes got hold of one of these and used it in air races.
An American officer, who collected advanced German weapons after the war, was told by the former German crew, that a skilled crew could change an engine in half an hour, even in the field, so the short life time of an engine wasn't that essential. I wonder how much time it took to change an engine on a Meteor? But both start and landing was was at low speed, and that was the vulnerable time, where most got shut down.
Unique is unique [Latin meaning ~ one only]. Nothing can be 'more unique' or 'most unique' - the single word says everything.
One off the best channels on you tupe!!
Along with Mark Feltons 2 channels
Switzerland got a Me262 on 25.4.1945 when HG Mutke defected with one to Switzerland. Mainly the turbine was disected by BBC (they had a comercial Gasturbine built in 1938 (GT Neuenburg) and a Gasturbine Locomotive in 1943 ( Am 4/6 1101)) after the study it was given back to Germany. It is now in Schleissheim it was used as the prototype for the reconstruction effort refered in the video.
Of course they gave it back. The Swiss might as well have been nazis. Neutral, my ass.
@@mikeholland1031 You are mistaken you want to insult my Granddad you are insulting me. Learn real history first before you go around insulting people.
@@felixtheswiss I know my history. So was he a nazi or a Swiss nazi? You're not being clear
@@mikeholland1031Obviously you dont know otherwise you would not talking like that. There were a few Nazis in Switzerland some of them were executed for treason. BTW there were Nazis in the US too! So no my granddad stood firm at the border to prevent an Nazi German attack. Switzerland was surrounded by the Axis and had to trade with them otherwise the people would have starved to death. But they could not trade with the Allies because how could they send anything to them through axis lands?
@@felixtheswiss actually I feel kinda bad for saying that. Your grandad was probably.a.great guy and you too. It just pisses me.off when ppl claim Switzerland was neutral. They supplied the nazis with oil, fuel, hard to find raw materials, optics, electronics and plenty of other stuff that the german war machine would have stopped without. Swiss banks bought up all that plundered gold too. An important german ally
No matter how one put it and what evil power is behind it: the Me262 is an iconic plane. As is the A4 / V2 for ballistic missiles. And - also - a symbol for missed occasions and not grasping the chance. But what. One needs to be first in history.
The replica 262s are why I buy lottery tickets
Germany at the time created some of the most amazing technologies some where far advanced over their rivals.
I actually got to see the me 262 trainer that was in Willow Grove Navy base in Pa. I believe it went to the Smithsonian. Very slick looking plane.
+ Drake Orion The Willow Grove Me-262 is still US Navy property and now it is restored and on display at the Navy museum in Pensacola.
I loved this video. It seemed very comprehensive. Pete 🇬🇧
It still looks as good as any jets flying today, I think it had an ejector seat but I'm not sure. Also compare the sleek shape of the Jumo engine nacelle with the bulbous engines on the Meteor, axial flow engine vs centrifugal engine. So none of the US test staff thought of ballasting the
262 after the removal of the heavy guns particularly from the nose? Almost cost the test pilot his life.
Yes, the 262 had an ejector seat. So did the Heinkel Volksfighter and some later model FW 190's but these were fitted at squadron level, not at the factory.
Maybe they did think of it but for reasons we don't know now they didn't feel it was needed.
@@louisavondart9178 I believe the Do 335 during its testing phase was fitted with an ejector seat, but correct me if I’m wrong
In my humble opinion,this video is the best in depth video that you have ever made KUDOS my good sir.
If none of the US test staff thought of ballasting the 262 after removal of the HEAVY guns one wonders how they managed to tie their shoelaces in the morning……..
If anyone is wondering about the delay caused by hitler the plane could have been operational by 1942. But Hitler wanted to be a multi role fighter meaning they had to redesign the whole plane.
My Grandfather was a B-17G pilot over Germany in WW2 and he told me what it was like to see the 262s and Comets. I was also close personal friends with USAAF Major Urban Ben Drew who killed two 262s in a single engagement by diving his Mustang into compressability and near the speed of sound over Achmer Airfield. Heady times. WW2 started on horseback and with bolt action rifles...ending with Jets and Atomic bombs.
There's no way a P51 in any form it's getting over Mach 0.75, never mind "near the speed of sound".
@Donald Johnson says the non Pilot. Puh-leeeze! I've had ROTOR BLADES at nearly the speed of sound! When compressability in his dive made him lose elevator authority and then she'd ALL of his wing ammo access panels in the pullout? He was there.
Enjoyed your video so I gave it a Thumbs Up
Thank you for the amazing video.
Interesting history, a great airplane, and beautiful German design. -- Carl Von Clausewitz, a Prussian general and military theorist said; “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means.” and “war is not merely an act of policy, but a true political instrument, a continuation of political intercourse carried on with other means.” -- Other Means = Violence, Death and Destruction.
Spare parts for messerschmidt came to a abrupt end in 1948 when the russians dynamited a huge Stock of spare parts for the me-109 and me-262 , during the war there where an aircraft plant in checoslowakia that made parts for these 2 messerschmidts
The ME-262 was not delayed by Hitler - at least not to the extend often told in numerous publications.
From the outset it was prepared to carry bombs.
It was simply not mature before it went into operational state, mainly due to problems with the Engines caused by not having access to the alloys that would be required to make them more reliant.
A great description can be seen here: th-cam.com/video/SDYHd1PuR5U/w-d-xo.html
He didn't want the fighter version built. He wanted a blitz bomber
@@mikeholland1031 A common myth that has been debunked many times Military history Visualised does a great video debunking this and being a native German speaker he was able to read the original archive material.
@@jonsouth1545 I heard Adolf Gallant say it. Not a myth
The real reason was that it simply wasn´t ready before it actually came into operational duty, and still then there where alot of problems with it.
It wasn´t a high priority project before late into the war.
Generally the Fighter units of the Luftwaffe was not the most favoured part, simply because it was deemed a defensive branch of the luftwaffe.
Especially after the battle of Brittain, where Göring had promised air superiority by the fighter force, which they never got, they where not highly regarded.
So it was not Hitler alone that caused the debacle about whether the Me-262 should be a pure fighter or a fighter bomber, but the German high command as a whole.
@@valleyofiron125 you mean captured enigma machines and code books. They never broke the code.
Thank`s for sharing, nice report !
In my humble opinion, it`s only pro was the fact it was the first Jet fighter, it was a real mess, bad engine, bad aeronautics, bad pilot position and fragil airframe, etc...
Until April 1945 ME262 shot down 27 allie planes, but 31 MEs were lost!!
Nevertheless, it was a real era change on aviation!!
I've never understood the worship of the 262. A direct contemporary, the P80, along with its direct derivatives T33 and F94, were in service for 50 years. The 262, even with post war derivatives, was in service for like 6 years.
The early 262's had a top speed of 540, the late 568. The late 004's had a 25 hour overhaul rate which was better than some piston engines from the period.
OO4 25 hour WOW did the Germans know ???
@@michaelshore2300... What?
the pistons engines had more than 300hours overhaul rate not 25...and many turbo jets did explode before the 25 hours...not forgott that the fuel regulation was manual, and pumping from the engine = 50% chances to explode...
@@leneanderthalien Yes all part of the Germans were great Myth . British Gas Turbines about the same 200 hours And surprise Top speed 540 MPH same as Vampire ??
@@michaelshore2300 and 40mph less than the production F3 model of the meteor.
Fascinating, and well-done!
The answer to your question is "nothing". Nazi Germany didn't have the fuel supplies to support large scale operations of gas guzzling jet aircraft. Mom and Dad can buy you the nicest toys ever, but if they forget to buy batteries it's still going to be a disappointing Christmas.
The Junkers Jumo engines had a 10 hour operational life before an engine swap. So some simple mathematics; a Rolls Royce Merlin engine had an operational life span of about 20 hours; so P 51's and Spitfire engines outlasted the Junkers Jumo Engine. The Me 262 was designed to have a very fast engine swap time with the engines being bolted under the wing.
I still love the Mosquito; I wonder how that would have gone with a couple of Junkers Jumo engines!
Great question. Or with the 2 Rolls Royce jet engines that the Gloster Meteor had.
The 262's engines were not as good as contemporary Allied engines the UK built the Metrovik F2 in 1941 like the German BMW 003 and the Jumo 004 it was also an Axial flow engine and although it was rejected for use due to short engine lifespan not only was it more reliable than the German Engines but still not up to an acceptable level for the UK it produced considerably more thrust than the German engines and had a better Thrust to weight ratio. The Metrovik F2 produced 11kn (2400lbf) compared to the BMW 003 7.8kn (1760lbf) and the Jumo 004s 8.8kn (1980lbf). The Metrovik F2 significantly better thrust to weight ratio of 1.6+ compared to the 1.13 of the BMW and 1.25 of the Jumo.
@@jonsouth1545 The Brits were miles behind Germany when it came to Jet engine design and Utility! After all Hans Von Ohain had a jet aircraft flying before WW2.
Tungsten and Titanium were the secret ingredients. After WW2 nobody wanted Whittle's Engine! It doesn't even look like a Jet engine!
@@jonsouth1545 The Metrovik F2; what the heck is that about, I've never heard of it!
Czechoslovakia didn't used different designation for Me-262 because it was german. After the war they gave every plane appearing in their air focre, no matter if from germans or allies, their own designation.
S - Stíhač (Fighter)
CS - Cvičný stíhač (Fighter Trainer)
C - Cvičný (Trainer)
B - Bombardér (Bomber)
D - Dopravní (Transport)
K - Kurýrní (Reconnisance)
Some examples
La-5 was known as S 95
La-7 as S 97
Spitfire as S 89
Bf-109 as S 99
Jumo version of Bf-109 as S 199
Fw-190 as S 90
MiG-15 as S 102
Yes, you can look at hardware and often copy it. But the real "know how" falls with the scientists, engineers, and designers, and asking them about the decisions they made, and why, and how they would improve upon them. The true mind behind the German jet engine was Hans Von Ohain. He and his team came to Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio after the war, where they continued their research. He later became a professor at the University of Dayton. Info is here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Ohain
Ohain had nothing to do with any German or any other Gas turbine that was produced, he built one engine after being given the Whittle patents by the German Air ministry Authority Ohain's assistant on German TV about 2000
Great to learn the post war history of this superb aircraft.
Guckt euch eure Technik vor 1945 an - Guckt euch eure Technik nach 1945 an - da haste die Antwort.
Greetings from Germany.
Some nice pictures, a lot I've not seen before.
Thank you. Great video.
Americans find the cockpit cramped an difficult to look over the shoulder.. a potential lethal situation in a dog fight...
- Go never in dogfight (NIE im Kurvenkampf gehen! GER)
- Always stay fast, hit and run tactics, keep momentum, the engines like speed, stick to MMO.
Great Episode!
I, for one, would appreciate you NOT using an underlying background 'music' track. It just makes it harder to listen to the narration.
I saw the Me262 Fly at the family day Event at EADS (European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company) which is the sucessor of Messerschmitt and part of Airbus now.
I wonder if the P-80 later F-80 Shooting Star had come out earlier than it did how it would have fared against the Me-262.
Yeager wrote that the performance of the two were similar....but the 262 was almost impossible to turn at speed. The P-80 had hydraulically boosted ailerons. That would be decisive in a dogfight with equal pilots.
Great video again gentlemen.
I'm going to paraphrase a quote that I was reminded of by the very end of the video: the best of weapons for the worst of people.
We pilots should know how critical Central of Gravity location is or you end up to be a passenger instead of pilot.
It was nice of Rolls Royce to send the Soviets a complete jet engine just after the war.
Or dumb.
The ME-262 was truly advanced for its time, but its time came too late to have much of an effect. The engines had a life of around 20 hours, compared to the more rugged piston engines of that era. It was also slow to take off and land, which made it a sitting duck for any P-47's or P-51 Mustangs to shoot it down. The fuel had to be specially made, and while it was faster than anything else at that time, and while the German pilots did manage to score a number of victories against Allied aircraft, it came too little, too late. As someone else said, only about 300 ever got produced, and not many got into the air vis-à-vis the huge number of Allied aircraft that flew missions over Germany late in the war. What the ME-262 represented was the next step in jet fighter technology, which the Americans, Russians, and Brits, used. (The Meteor, though, was an excellent jet fighter for its time).
The largest number of 262s in the air at one time was about 55, in late April of 1945. On a day when there were about 4000 Allied aircraft flying over Germany.
The 262's engines were not as good as contemporary Allied engines the UK built the Metrovik F2 in 1941 like the German BMW 003 and the Jumo 004 it was also an Axial flow engine and although it was rejected for use due to short engine lifespan not only was it more reliable than the German Engines but still not up to an acceptable level for the UK it produced considerably more thrust than the German engines and had a better Thrust to weight ratio. The Metrovik F2 produced 11kn (2400lbf) compared to the BMW 003 7.8kn (1760lbf) and the Jumo 004s 8.8kn (1980lbf). The Metrovik F2 significantly better thrust to weight ratio of 1.6+ compared to the 1.13 of the BMW and 1.25 of the Jumo.
Interesting fact is they were the last planes together with the Arado's the German's could fly because they were the only ones they still had fuel for.
The fuil was a diesl kerosene, easyer to make than high octane avgas. Also iirc the time to rebuild was about 8 hours and life just 2 rebuilds
Most kills by RAF Hawker Tempests
People should remember that Brits and Americans had jet powered aircraft before the end of the war, too. All jets, at that time, were horribly unreliable, so the Allies decided they were not needed to win, and they were correct. What the Germans had was a jet with an axial turbine engines. Even if the Germans had a thousand ME262's they would have still lost.
The Americans had P-80 Shooting Stars in Europe in 1945.
Technically the first jet vs jet combat was the shooting down of V-1’s by Gloster Meteors in 1944.
@@allangibson2408 The F3 model of the Meteor which was the main production model of the time was 40mph faster than the 262 it had almost double the rate of climb and had 2000 meter higher service ceiling compared to the production models of the 262.
@@jonsouth1545 And the British never deployed them to the European Mainland…
The Allies had Axial Flow engines before the War ended as well - the Westinghouse J30, J32 and J34, the GE J35 and T31 turboprops were all running, and the Lockheed and Northrop axials under development were close to running. In Britain, the Metrovick F.2 and Armstron Siddeley AS.X were all running before 1945.
@@peterstickney7608 There was nothing inherently wrong with centrifugal compressors - particularly for lower power operating conditions, they are immune to compressor stall and foreign object ingestion to a large degree (and all the earliest ones had debris screens).
Axial flow engines have a smaller frontal area but are very vulnerable to debris from unpaved runways…
The RAF moved Gloster Meteors over to mainland Europe, keen to take on the 262s. Previously they had been kept in the UK to prevent any chance of one being downed over German held territory. VE day came before such a meeting could happen.
Very interesting. Thanks
Can someone please tell me what im looking at @1:36 ? There's only 1 turbine...
Probably one of the early tests of both the engine and the air frame.
B S The first P.1065 V1 Me-262 test airframe was fitted with a Jumo 210 piston engine in the nose. But I cannot figure out that single turbine unless someone has been doctoring the picture. Or if it is photoshopped.
His postwar career was uneventful. After the war, Me262 spent some time kicking around on GI benefits, trying to make sense and get over it all, before taking a job as a pattern maker at a metal fabrication shop. He worked his way up to journeyman millwright, but the field quickly bored him, so he decided to try carpentry instead, and eventually opened his own construction company, taking advantage of the post Korean War housing boom.
Ohhhh, you mean that OTHER Me262! My bad.
Great Video
Actually..all 262s in Czechoslowakia were put together from parts and grounded aircrafts that were left all over country. There was no real production.
+ Lemmy Killmister The Czechs only managed to construct about twelve Me-262 airframes. By 1949 the factory had retooled for a newer aircraft.
An amazing video
ME 262 is one of the most beautiful jet fighter beside MiG 21
Real Good. Thanks.
By 1945 all nations had something remarkable in their military that the others did not have....Germany had advanced rocket tech and some advanced submarine tech...The Soviets had some very strong Fighter planes and Tanks that were nearly impenetrable...The UK had radar and Naval and Air Force tech...Ive heard that War speedily pushes tech advances in all areas...
Very interesting information .
Wish I had one , would be nice to do the air show circuit in one
Look up the 262 Project. You can buy a new one, built to order. The four options available are one or two seats, and static display or flight article.
So which allied fighters took lessons from the Me-262?
I read Hitler originally insisted that the ME262 be developed as a bomber, had he not interfered and the ME 262 was introduced earlier in a fighter role, the Allied Bombers might have suffered a lot more.
It wasn't so simple. In 1943, Adolph Galland begged Hitler to stop production of the BF109 completely and concentrate on the FW 190 and the ME262 but Hilter never thought the 262 would be necessary and so refused to allocate more resources to it's development. Goering deferred to Hilter as he didn't have a clue anyway and was high on morphine most of the time. By mid 1944, the Luftwaffe had been almost destroyed as an effective fighting force and while aircraft production continued to increase, there simply weren't enough trained pilots to fly them. Not enough fuel either...
@@louisavondart9178 Bf109 was the cheapest to produce and was better at altitude than FW190 so before Ta-152 and/or Me-262 it stood in production
They have always reminded me of a sharks shape and have a timeless attractiveness.
What do you mean by evil ??, the Versailles treaty 1919 ?? what had brought a hole nation in to starvation. Great documentary, I liked it and good job done.
It didn't have any effect, only the Czechs tried to build a copy and gave it up. The Allies especially the British had had more advanced engines and the wing sweep was not enough to improve aerodynamics.
The first ME262 is pictured as a tail wheel aircraft but the operational model was a front wheel tripod landing gear when did they change the design
The tail wheel was removed because the pilot had to apply a short brake action to elevate the tail during take off. Kinda dangerous with unreliable early jet engines.
I wonder why the U.S. used a B-17 bomber pilot to test fly the 262? I would have thought they would have used a fighter pilot. If it was because the 262 had 2 engines, they could have used a P-38 pilot.
That pilot would have been a skilled test pilot. Not some random B-17 pilot. I’ll guess his multiengine experience was a factor in being the first American to fly the 262
A fighter pilot is more likely to bail out quickly in case of an emergency (because it is easier) loosing the precious test aircraft, on the other hand bomber
pilots would try to nurse their stricken aircraft down safely saving the aircraft (pilots would have to stay until all the crew had bailed out). This is just a thought that came into my head and most likely wrong.
The same reason they didn't put ballast in the nose. Idiots.
@@anthonyxuereb792 No, I think your answer makes sense. The air force did want bomber pilots who were a little older than fighter pilots. That was done for the same reasons you point out.
@@louisavondart9178 I am sorry, but I don't understand your response. Could you clarify what you mean? Thanks
ME 262 came too late in the war as it needed not just material that Germany did not have but also more time to get the design correct. Also, it was not delayed by Hitler.
Leaving 4 30mm cannon out of the nose must hve given an horrendously aft C of G situation. I'm surprised it didn't revert to a taildragger, (The original configuration for the design.)
Or somebody never thought of loading the nose with sandbags to make up for the weight loss.
well... correction. korean war american jet engines didnt have any longer service life so it clearly wasnt the shortage of materials that made engines had only 20 hours life
10: 53 and 12:55 - It's not "LUHFT-va-fa," it's "LOOFT-va-fa."
(Like Lufthansa: "LOOFT-han-sa." Luft means "air," or sometimes "breath.")
12:35 The German J takes a sound like an English "Y," so it's not pronounced "junkers," but "yoonkers." (The U makes the same sound as in "luft.")
An excellent presentation; lots of excellent research and stills/video.
As a German I am immensly confused by this Comment :)
@ I suppose it helps if you read it using an English pronunciation guide.
Deutschers already know how to pronounce Deutsch, ja? I'm not so sure about this video's well-meaning narrator, so I'm trying to help him in his native language.
The Me 262 engines had just 15 hours of flight time. Many had nothing close. Rolls-Royce jets used a radial compressor based on the Merlin supercharger were far more reliable.
USA struggled to compete with their early jet engines. The new Leftist U.K. government gave Nene jet engines to Stalin, which went into the MiG 15
A radial compressor is fine for small aircraft engines or stationary engines.
For powerful aircraft engines the axial compressor has many advantages, not least of all the smaller frontal area.
Why do you think that practically all modern aircraft engines have axial compressors?
Furthermore, many of these engines have seen more than 20,000 hours of usage.
The short service life was lack of proper metal alloys not designed.
@@BasementEngineer You miss the point Everyone, including Whittle, knew that Axial flow was potentially better but could not make it work. Whittle was far more Practical and designed and built is first engine long before the Merlin.
The production model of the Meteor the F3 was 40mph faster than the 262 most people compare the Meteor F1 to the 262 but the F1 was the prototype with only 20 made that saw limited service. While the production model was the F3 that entered service late 44 less than 5 months after the 262 and was capable of over 600mph as well as being a stable gun platform and having a service ceiling almost 2000 meters higher and almost double the rate of climb of the 262. The F1 was more comparable to the Me 262 V1 as they were both similar stage prototypes not really meant for combat. The production 262 was thoroughly outclassed by the F3 model of the Meteor.
The F3 wasn't 600mph fast, certainly not the production models of 44 and 45 that could have met 262s. The 262 was at her time faster than the Meteor but probably less maneuverable and certainly less reliable due to the Jumo 004B production engines. Also for fighter dogfights probably the 20mm canons of the Meteor were better suited than the short barrel 30mm of the 262. But the airframe of the 262 was the all over better design. Also you should take in count already planned upgraded versions of the 262 which as per design features would have easily been a match for later Meteor versions. End of War (fortunately) end very poor supply situation of late-war Germany brought those plans to a halt. Well and then there are the other quite advanced designs of Tank, Messerschmitt and Horten.
I read very often dismissive opinions about the 262 especially from Brits but also similar bad opinions from Germans about the Meteor. The truth is both aircraft were definitely comparable, both were great designs and especially those two (plus the Arado and possibly the P80) signalled the dawn of the piston fighters!
@@wanderschlosser1857 The F3 reached 606mph on 25th September 1945 it regularly did 600 in 1944-45 even without the upgraded engines that only came in after the first batch of F3's the new pylons of the F3 solved the compressibility issues of the F1 and increased the top speed by 70mph. The Meteor F3 also had almost double the climb rate of the 262 and had a 2km higher service ceiling. With the faster climb rate and better energy retention, the Meteor could clean the clock of the 262.
@@jonsouth1545 I found it was in November 45 when the F3 did the first official jet airspeed record with 606 mph. That was the version with longer engine nacelles and possibly Derwent IV engines both soon after used in the F4 (edited from F3) version and it certainly was a stripped down record aircraft, not a combat ready version. And all of that was well after the war finished. At the end of the war there was no Meteor even close to the 262 speed. Rate of climb of a standard F3: 3980 ft/min, 262: 3900 ft/min. So yes F3's rate of climb was better, but just marginally, not double!
But the main point is that 262 and Meteor have been tested against each other with the result that both 262 and He 162 had better combat performance. That was stated by no one less than Eric Brown. He said: "the Me-262 and the He-162 would have made cat’s meat of the Gloster Meteor had they ever met in combat." And you can trust this guy knew what he was talking about!
@@wanderschlosser1857 The one that did 606 was modified but 600 had been done multiple times earlier by production aircraft. And Adolf Galland and several others like Sailor Malan and Pierre Cloustermann or George Beurling who also flew both vastly preferred the Meteor and while Eric Brown was a fantastic test pilot his record as a combat pilot was mediocre. Eric Brown was arguably the greatest test pilot ever but he only had 2 recorded kills a pair of FW200s in July 41 and never fought in any major air battle in his entire career so when it comes to actual combat people like Sailor Malan, Piere Clostermann, etc who were some of the RAFs leading aces have a more relevant opinion.
@@jonsouth1545 There was no production version of the Meteor in 44 or first half of 45 that reached 600 mph and that's a fact. If you are so sure of your claim then come up with a few sources, I couldn't find any!
Galland preferred the 262 over the Meteor but would have liked to have the Meteors RR engines in it. He also said the 262 was faster.
And that Eric Brown didn't have more air to air kills is for the very simple fact that he was a Navy test pilot and not a RAF fighter pilot in combat service. It doesn't say anything about his knowledge about the aircraft and his competence to judge combat capabilities of aircraft he himself flew and tested.
Yes there were faster Meteors than the 262 but not at the same time line. The comparison you do is like comparing the BF-109E with the Spitfire Mk V or IX instead of the Mk II. It just doesn't fit!
What is the pie-shaped symbol on the tails of some of these early jets?
Very interesting,I complement you on a compliment you on a well job well done.
The Bull Shark of the skies in the '40's. Fast, robust, deadly, super-aggressor.
Greatest fighter plane of the war. Thankfully not made in large numbers.