I have found that using a Rico no 3 soft filed Soprano Sax Select Reed ,now manufactured by D’Addario and using your recommended double lip grip embouchure develops the strength, steadiness and ease of my sound production and fluidity with no undue effort.Previously I couldn’t play the two finger top E or the very high top A harmonic using the same fingering without making squeaks when I used top teeth biting so hard on the top of the mouthpiece with a traditional Rico Reserve clarinet Reed to play those notes. I had to get my dentist to round off sharp spurs in 2 lower teeth which has cured that problem. Now, no problems using your double lip embouchure and the normal clarinet reed Easy now to play it that way ,tongueing more lightly , gripping more towards the tip of the mouthpiece, contrary to the saxophone embouchure used in much jazz playing. However, contrarily Stan Getz used double lip embouchure , having started on the bassoon like myself ! I have a vintage Leblanc clarinet in A , which was the top professional pre LL model from around 1960 manufacture., still used by some clarinet professionals today, using a Backun Blackwood mouthpiece with the correct matching bore for it and with the soprano sax reed it has sufficient dynamic potential to play Mozart’s Concerto in a concert hall, although that model was designed more for chamber playing .Bob Wilber, like Benny Goodman , trained first to play classical music but became more interested in playing jazz clarinet and soprano saxophone. He was a good friend of mine till his death last year and did often use a soprano sax reed on clarinet.
Your videos were truly a revelation. I doubt if the matter could have been dealt with more effectively. I am not a clarinetist though my first instrument was in fact the clarinet. I was forced to discontinue with the clarinet as there was no teacher who could keep me on track. A friend lent me his saxophone and i somehow managed to develop some skill with this instrument. I would very much like to know of a video or series of videos that deal with the double lip embouchure on the saxophone. My ultimate aim is to be able to play in subtone mode and from casual reading and viewing of videos I gather subtone playing is easier with the double lip amboucuhre. There is perhaps just one exponent of the subtone played with the double lip embouchure and his video though listed on TH-cam somehow is not actually available. I refer to the super performer on subtone ,Quamon Fowler. What would totally satisfy my interest in the subject and enable me to progress toward my desired goal would be a video or videos such as your most excellent series for clarinet. Would you know of any instructional material for saxophone to the very high standard as yours for the clarinet. Thank you sincerely for any help you might be able to offer.
glad you find it helpful. you must apply pressure to the reed in order to control it. this is obvious. my teachers told me not to bite, but they failed in two respects: they never defined what biting really is and they never gave me a viable alternative as a means of achieving reed control. This is one important thing these vids on embcouchure do. If you apply it I'm sure your playing will benefit from it.
I completely agree with what you say. That is why I mentioned getting used to the Non-adjusting air flow; kind of obscure in phrase I admit, but essentially meaning the same thing. I would not say that you need a softer reed, but you do need a well-balanced reed. But you should be playing balanced reeds all along anyway. If you're not and playing single lip you're probably a charter member of the Kaptain Krunch school of clarinet embouchure.
Thank you so much! I play Bassoon, but I am marching clarinet. My tone was not very good and the clarinet embouchure was really messing with my bassoon embouchure. Although this is much firmer so I still have to make sure to not crush my bassoon reed, its not the complete opposite anymore! :) Apparently I was biting a lot too. I'm actually sounding like the real clarinet players in my band class now.
I use a Vandoren B40 mouthpiece with a Vandoren MO , silver plated ligature, a Backun Grenadilla 64 mm barrel. My Leblanc, serial no 10246 “340 model “ , nickel silver about 1960 date of manufacture in excellent condition .
It will work well for you. If your braces are not bulky and your upper lip is not too short you should be fine. If, on the other hand, if the braces are bulky you may want to wait until they are removed to work on the technique. It WILL improve your playing whenever you decide to work on it. tom
I always played single lip in grammer and high school and college, I could play for hours..no problem,,,later in college, I switched to double lip....I played that way for years, through pro playing in orchestras and still played and practiced for hours , however, over the course of several years I found my endurance reduced until I could only play for a few minutes before my embouchure would just give out. the muscles in my embouchure just could not last...so I had to stop playing all together
omg thank you so much i can hear the difference in my tone and it seems to make double tonguing easier as well. i can tongue twice as fast now and my tone is just like wowing people in my band but i have 1 question.... is it okay to use vibrato on clarinet cause i can do it quite well but i never hear pro's or anything do it?
Thank you Mr. Ridenour. Do you happen to know if the description and method to achieving a correct double embouchure, as illustrated in your videos, was the same as the one taught by Gaston Hamelin to Ralph Mclane and in turn to Harold Wright? If you could describe any similarities/differences I would be most grateful! Also, in Mclane's 1950 article he described propping the teeth off of the mouthpiece. This seems a little different to your "thumb up/snug up" technique. Thank you very much!
It's been a long time since I read McLane's article, but pulling the teeth off the mouthpiece and snugging are in no way mutually exclusive. I actually do both. I often told my students to "pull your teeth apart"--while keeping the lips sealed on the mouthpiece--NEVER close the jaw, because that kills the sound. Of course we can't know, and Wright never wrote about his embouchure mechanics--so he left us nothing except this example as a great artist---which is far, far from nothing. But when I look at Wright's photos and videos while playing the cosmetic results he gets is exactly the same as what I get and what I have taught for years. FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. Wright's form seems cosmetically the same as what Achieved and taught. And the results are similar. Wright, of course, studied with McLane, as did Opperman, who taught me double lip. None of these people actually defined and codified these things in terms of mechanics as I have done. They actually did not seem particularly interested in sharing or teaching. what a shame, since clarinet pedagogy is in a primitive state. I believe my Educator's Guide to the Clarinet does make some progress in developing a solid pedagogy.
I took the trouble of refreshing my self with McLane's article. The "propping" you mention is not for playing double lip per se. It is a way a single lip player with a short upper lip can simulate double lip playing. This is a very short article, and the information is good, but is by no means detailed or complete. Nothing I have said or written about double lip contradicts McLane. Rather what I wrote fills in many gaps and details missing in this article. Indeed, the brevity of this article precludes the possibility of being inclusive. I will confirm that the summary he gives is really good information, and it parallels my own summary regarding double lip at the end of part. III. I will contend with McLane on one issue: it does not take an enormously long time to develop double lip IF you use a few of the fingerings I recommend, play well-balanced reeds, and use snugging rather than clamping to control the reed you will make the transition from single to double very quickly. Regarding standing, I saw Harold Wright play many times live when I lived in New England, and he sat and read the music every time, including the Mozart concerto and the Copland concerto. The trick in good embouchure muscular development is to use balanced reeds, never bite, and always use the RH thumb to keep the reed/mouthpiece wedged and snugged firmly but gently against upper and lower lip. (Wright mentioned keeping an "equal pressure" (snugging pressure) against both lips. If you do this you will get the good muscular development on the lower and upper lip that will be sufficient to cushion the mouthpiece/reed wedge. Slow LEGATO scales, and slow intervals--play lyrical LEGATO melodies to feel your air to go through the notes not to the notes. All these will help you develop quickly. And for God's sake balance your reeds well. Poorly balanced reeds will destroy your chops.
Sean Hurlburt regardless of how good your embouchure is, if you play for a really long time, your lip(s) (double) are going to get sore no matter what you do. This is the case with professional players who are required to play for extended periods of time. It might not be the best idea for beginners because it could possibly conceal the fact that they're biting, but professionals don't use them for this purpose.
You should not be biting AT ALL! Double lip does not mean only biting a little---it means using a completely different means of controlling the reed than upward jaw pinch.
William Ridenour I person use just single lip and I leave my tongue in a relaxed position. I found that double has no real benefit to me, so maybe I'm just weird xP
Much is said about the double lip embouchure, much of it false, from a fellow double lip player I would like to express my complete agreement with Tom on what he is saying. I would like to add 2 additional things. Double lip playing helps shifts the sound engine from the lips to the air. That's one of the reasons a smooth legato happens so easily with it. Also because you're shifting to Air playing and not Lip playing, do freak if you need a softer reed. Tom how about a bass clarinet post!
Vibrato is perfectly acceptable on the clarinet. Harold Wright, one of the greatest players, used vibrato and had a singing approach to phrase seldom equaled. Like any other technique it must be used in good taste, like Rubato, for example. Just develop good tone production techniques and NEVER use vibrato to mask faults in your techniques.
I have found that using a Rico no 3 soft filed Soprano Sax Select Reed ,now manufactured by D’Addario and using your recommended double lip grip embouchure develops the strength, steadiness and ease of my sound production and fluidity with no undue effort.Previously I couldn’t play the two finger top E or the very high top A harmonic using the same fingering without making squeaks when I used top teeth biting so hard on the top of the mouthpiece with a traditional Rico Reserve clarinet Reed to play those notes. I had to get my dentist to round off sharp spurs in 2 lower teeth which has cured that problem.
Now, no problems using your double lip embouchure and the normal clarinet reed
Easy now to play it that way ,tongueing more lightly , gripping more towards the tip of the mouthpiece, contrary to the saxophone embouchure used in much jazz playing.
However, contrarily Stan Getz used double lip embouchure , having started on the bassoon like myself !
I have a vintage Leblanc clarinet in A , which was the top professional pre LL model from around 1960 manufacture., still used by some clarinet professionals today, using a Backun Blackwood mouthpiece with the correct matching bore for it and with the soprano sax reed it has sufficient dynamic potential to play Mozart’s Concerto in a concert hall, although that model was designed more for chamber playing .Bob Wilber, like Benny Goodman , trained first to play classical music but became more interested in playing jazz clarinet and soprano saxophone. He was a good friend of mine till his death last year and did often use a soprano sax reed on clarinet.
Your videos were truly a revelation. I doubt if the matter could have been dealt with more effectively. I am not a clarinetist though my first instrument was in fact the clarinet. I was forced to discontinue with the clarinet as there was no teacher who could keep me on track. A friend lent me his saxophone and i somehow managed to develop some skill with this instrument. I would very much like to know of a video or series of videos that deal with the double lip embouchure on the saxophone. My ultimate aim is to be able to play in subtone mode and from casual reading and viewing of videos I gather subtone playing is easier with the double lip amboucuhre. There is perhaps just one exponent of the subtone played with the double lip embouchure and his video though listed on TH-cam somehow is not actually available. I refer to the super performer on subtone ,Quamon Fowler. What would totally satisfy my interest in the subject and enable me to progress toward my desired goal would be a video or videos such as your most excellent series for clarinet. Would you know of any instructional material for saxophone to the very high standard as yours for the clarinet. Thank you sincerely for any help you might be able to offer.
glad you find it helpful. you must apply pressure to the reed in order to control it. this is obvious. my teachers told me not to bite, but they failed in two respects: they never defined what biting really is and they never gave me a viable alternative as a means of achieving reed control. This is one important thing these vids on embcouchure do. If you apply it I'm sure your playing will benefit from it.
Thank you so much for this, it has really helped me. It also made me realise and be more aware of how much I was biting.
I completely agree with what you say. That is why I mentioned getting used to the Non-adjusting air flow; kind of obscure in phrase I admit, but essentially meaning the same thing. I would not say that you need a softer reed, but you do need a well-balanced reed. But you should be playing balanced reeds all along anyway. If you're not and playing single lip you're probably a charter member of the Kaptain Krunch school of clarinet embouchure.
Thank you so much! I play Bassoon, but I am marching clarinet. My tone was not very good and the clarinet embouchure was really messing with my bassoon embouchure. Although this is much firmer so I still have to make sure to not crush my bassoon reed, its not the complete opposite anymore! :) Apparently I was biting a lot too. I'm actually sounding like the real clarinet players in my band class now.
I use a Vandoren B40 mouthpiece with a Vandoren MO , silver plated ligature, a Backun Grenadilla 64 mm barrel. My Leblanc, serial no 10246 “340 model “ , nickel silver about 1960 date of manufacture in excellent condition .
It will work well for you. If your braces are not bulky and your upper lip is not too short you should be fine. If, on the other hand, if the braces are bulky you may want to wait until they are removed to work on the technique. It WILL improve your playing whenever you decide to work on it.
tom
With all of these positive points, it seems like the double-lip embouchure is the superior embouchure.
It is far superior for beautiful tone production.
Nice, thank you Tom.
I always played single lip in grammer and high school and college, I could play for hours..no problem,,,later in college, I switched to double lip....I played that way for years, through pro playing in orchestras and still played and practiced for hours , however, over the course of several years I found my endurance reduced until I could only play for a few minutes before my embouchure would just give out. the muscles in my embouchure just could not last...so I had to stop playing all together
omg thank you so much i can hear the difference in my tone and it seems to make double tonguing easier as well. i can tongue twice as fast now and my tone is just like wowing people in my band but i have 1 question.... is it okay to use vibrato on clarinet cause i can do it quite well but i never hear pro's or anything do it?
Thank you Mr. Ridenour. Do you happen to know if the description and method to achieving a correct double embouchure, as illustrated in your videos, was the same as the one taught by Gaston Hamelin to Ralph Mclane and in turn to Harold Wright? If you could describe any similarities/differences I would be most grateful! Also, in Mclane's 1950 article he described propping the teeth off of the mouthpiece. This seems a little different to your "thumb up/snug up" technique. Thank you very much!
It's been a long time since I read McLane's article, but pulling the teeth off the mouthpiece and snugging are in no way mutually exclusive. I actually do both. I often told my students to "pull your teeth apart"--while keeping the lips sealed on the mouthpiece--NEVER close the jaw, because that kills the sound.
Of course we can't know, and Wright never wrote about his embouchure mechanics--so he left us nothing except this example as a great artist---which is far, far from nothing.
But when I look at Wright's photos and videos while playing the cosmetic results he gets is exactly the same as what I get and what I have taught for years. FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. Wright's form seems cosmetically the same as what Achieved and taught. And the results are similar. Wright, of course, studied with McLane, as did Opperman, who taught me double lip.
None of these people actually defined and codified these things in terms of mechanics as I have done. They actually did not seem particularly interested in sharing or teaching.
what a shame, since clarinet pedagogy is in a primitive state. I believe my Educator's Guide to the Clarinet does make some progress in developing a solid pedagogy.
I took the trouble of refreshing my self with McLane's article. The "propping" you mention is not for playing double lip per se. It is a way a single lip player with a short upper lip can simulate double lip playing.
This is a very short article, and the information is good, but is by no means detailed or complete.
Nothing I have said or written about double lip contradicts McLane. Rather what I wrote fills in many gaps and details missing in this article. Indeed, the brevity of this article precludes the possibility of being inclusive.
I will confirm that the summary he gives is really good information, and it parallels my own summary regarding double lip at the end of part. III.
I will contend with McLane on one issue: it does not take an enormously long time to develop double lip IF you use a few of the fingerings I recommend, play well-balanced reeds, and use snugging rather than clamping to control the reed you will make the transition from single to double very quickly.
Regarding standing, I saw Harold Wright play many times live when I lived in New England, and he sat and read the music every time, including the Mozart concerto and the Copland concerto.
The trick in good embouchure muscular development is to use balanced reeds, never bite, and always use the RH thumb to keep the reed/mouthpiece wedged and snugged firmly but gently against upper and lower lip. (Wright mentioned keeping an "equal pressure" (snugging pressure) against both lips.
If you do this you will get the good muscular development on the lower and upper lip that will be sufficient to cushion the mouthpiece/reed wedge.
Slow LEGATO scales, and slow intervals--play lyrical LEGATO melodies to feel your air to go through the notes not to the notes. All these will help you develop quickly.
And for God's sake balance your reeds well. Poorly balanced reeds will destroy your chops.
Excuse me Mr.Tom. Whenever i play double lip altissimo D and E tend to squeak. Could you provide some insight on this? Thx alot.
Difficult to change embouchure but seems to be working,rest does help.
+Harold Silver Bingo. Rest more than you play. Play balanced reeds, and in no time you'll be playing that way all the time.
Hey Tom, what's your feeling on playing with padding/paper/ezo over your bottom teeth?
Sean Hurlburt regardless of how good your embouchure is, if you play for a really long time, your lip(s) (double) are going to get sore no matter what you do. This is the case with professional players who are required to play for extended periods of time. It might not be the best idea for beginners because it could possibly conceal the fact that they're biting, but professionals don't use them for this purpose.
Thanks so much!!
My upper lip goes in to mush mode after five minutes of practicing.Hope it will be worth the effort.
+Harold Silver five minutes is too long to begin.
I feel you, in this case, I felt what you felt.
You should not be biting AT ALL! Double lip does not mean only biting a little---it means using a completely different means of controlling the reed than upward jaw pinch.
Sorry I meant not to freak if you find your present reed is too hard.
try single lip while saying "hey". It curls up the tongue just like in double lip
+TheShadowblast123 nonsense. tongue and embouchure are distinct. I can play double lip with a horrible tongue position.
William Ridenour I person use just single lip and I leave my tongue in a relaxed position. I found that double has no real benefit to me, so maybe I'm just weird xP
No. You're not doing it right.
Much is said about the double lip embouchure, much of it false, from a fellow double lip player I would like to express my complete agreement with Tom on what he is saying. I would like to add 2 additional things. Double lip playing helps shifts the sound engine from the lips to the air. That's one of the reasons a smooth legato happens so easily with it. Also because you're shifting to Air playing and not Lip playing, do freak if you need a softer reed. Tom how about a bass clarinet post!
Can't speak with any authority on bass clarinet. Not my bag!
Vibrato is perfectly acceptable on the clarinet. Harold Wright, one of the greatest players, used vibrato and had a singing approach to phrase seldom equaled. Like any other technique it must be used in good taste, like Rubato, for example. Just develop good tone production techniques and NEVER use vibrato to mask faults in your techniques.
Thanks!!! :D