This lady is absolutely correct. The GPA style grading system is absolutely destroying the whole purpose of education in the first place! Just ask how a college student picks their classes. What I'm usually told is that they go on ratemyprofessor and pick the easiest teachers. They also say they look for "easy A" classes. All they care about is high GPA, nothing else. Then in the classroom, you can't help other students because you know if you help them then they might reduce your own grade! The school I went to used an even harsher grading system than the "1/3rd method." Our system was based on the normal distribution. The whole GPA system should be replaced with a pass/fail system. Either you pass or you don't. If employers want to "rank" students then they should create some sort of standardized exam for them to take. Maybe like an SAT for whatever occupation? It will be not mandatory to get your degree and will be voluntary to take. At least with that type of system it won't corrupt the entire education system to the core.
+chris n I may be just a high school student currently, but I think you as well as this lady are absolutely correct. Just to give you an example of what is going on in my school currently, we're about to receive a state required test over everything we've learned this year. The problem? They are giving it to us this month. My teacher has already admitted she won't be able to go over every section in depth, therefor making us learn it on our own. Now I love to learn. I've taught myself a lot about how education is taught, built my own computer (the very one I'm using currently) with just 2 days of research, and am currently learning how to play piano. But how am I really suppose to enjoy something thrown on top of me, with very little explanation? This got me thinking to a bigger question about what is School? Do we go to school to learn, or just to get rated? Does an education even matter anymore, or is it all about test? I just wanna know that when I get my high school Diploma it means something, but does anyone else? I for one do not think what is going on is ok, and I want it to change. Obviously it's not something that happens overnight but we need more people willing to solve *this* problem. I for one want to do everything I can, but how many others want to too?
I did a research paper on Global Education. The top three courtries in education DO NOT use the grading system. The grading system is set up to fail students. Attending college I feel like we students are cattle being drivin by a cattle prong. You don't get to learn what you paid for. Instead, it's a quick review and then left on our own. We get more out of TH-cam videos than we do in school. By the time finals comes, you have no memory of the first eight weeks and the second half didn't help because you end up cramming even more in at once. College education is way too expensive to leave with only 30% (if your lucky) of your courses learned.
@@baileygarner5660 And standardized testing hurts students in advanced classes, if they don't remember the material because they haven't done it in 2 years, they won't do as well.
I discovered that it works like that only a year ago. I studied really hard for an exam in a difficult subject, and got an overall C (which is a good grade where I'm studying, but still, I wanted an explanation. I went to the teacher and we went over my exam, and said it was almost A-grade material, then looked up what he had given me, and it was a C - that's what fit into the Bell curve.
If you take away grades, you won't take away the college's and employers' desire and need to rank you in some way. If you worked hard and really mastered the material then you should get an A, no matter what everyone else did. If that means a lot more A's are given out, well at least then colleges and employers would know you're among those who excel. In the end I would much rather be evaluated by what I do, rather than by what I look like or what "social/political clubs" I belong to.
@Supercollider do you have any data to back up your claims? Or are you just another one of these types that believe all the BS being spoonfed to you by leftists that claim, for example, that systemic racism drives most hiring/firing decisions without a shred of evidence to back that up? Absolutely nobody I know was hired based on any kind of status "club" they were perceived to belong to. Coincidence or just luck? Hardly. You need to subscribe to Thomas Sowell, he'll open your eyes to the real truth with plenty of research and evidence to back it up.
@Supercollider It was a valid comparison. And by the way, I don't believe you understand the true meaning of the word nepotism, since we now seem to be moving on to a nit-picking discussion of grammar, syntax, and the like. I suggest you look up the definition of nepotism again, because it doesn't mean what you imply it to and it cannot possibly account for global hiring practices.
@Supercollider so you're a Brit then, I take it? Who would have guessed that from the fact that the degree of your ignorance is only matched by the degree of your haughtiness? So tell me then, how exactly you support your implied statement that: "I'm not American, therefore concepts of racism and wokeness don't apply to me"? You think racism and wokeness only exist in America or only to a certain degree does it exist in America? I suppose you also believe slavery only existed in America or we somehow invented it? That's a laugh, especially if you are a Brit. If nothing else, at least your little comments have amused me this fine morning. 🤣
@Supercollider by the way, did that definition of nepotism slap you hard across the face? Did you fly across the room and crash through the telly? I know I was anxiously waiting to hear you drone on and on (as I know you like to do) about how all those companies just hire family and friends to fill their ranks of thousands 🤣
Very insightful! I like hearing about ideas that change the entire education system! I have seen people struggle and never find help, which leads them to flunk in class and in their lives. I'll admit, I felt horrible for failing assignments and bombing exams, and it makes me feel stupid and incompetent. But if educators became more efficient and didn't give a rigged grading system to their students, a large array of positive outcomes would happen.
3:30 nah, after marking the first 4 papers youre onto the 3rd glass of wine: giving everyone B/B+ avoids trouble. & if some one complains, remark to a B+/A-.
She’s right this is really messed up just because you don’t have all A’s in every class your looked at as a bad student. When in reality no one can be perfect in everything or every class. Their are somethings you will just be okay in and the professors and teachers have to realize this logic that even the best student or the student who tries very hard and has basic grades but is a good student. Will not be perfection in every class or every time.
Grade inflation is not "people who earned A's got A's". Grade inflation refers to how much easier it is to get high grades than in the past. A 1/3 policy idea is ridiculous. However, at least in the K-12 system, grade inflation is off the charts, so I don't think that there are many teachers making tests challenging. I can't speak to the average university but K-12 grades have gone way up while standardized test scores are more or less flat. What does that say?
She has a good point, but she is also forgetting (or simply failing to mention) the deep inequities facing the American education system. Many, many schools are not "palaces" as she mentioned. Many schools, teachers, and students do not have even basic supplies and tools. No matter what we do with our grading systems, if we do not address this issue, our schools will never come close to those in other countries.
Really old comment, but she is a university teacher. I agree with absolutely everything you are saying, but she is talking about universities specifically.
What universities or departments have these types of grading policies? It's hard to believe that universities or departments would want to demotivate their students like this.
+KCELT Kirkwood One of my professors told our class that they told her not to give out so many A's. Although, in her case, she really was an easy grader.
@Supercollider that's because at some point you're expected to be smart enough to learn things for yourself at the higher levels of the education system. Therefore, you should also be smart enough to appreciate and utilize research opportunities your professors have to offer to further your own education. Wow, picking fights with people right and left are we?! Let me guess what spawned your trolling ways: last night you caught your girl in bed with another man? 🤣
@Supercollider lol!!! YES!!! I'm two-for-two in egging you on to reply 🤣. My workplace just erupted into cheers and high-fives all around 🤣. Alright, I can see you've had enough and it's clear you're having a very bad day or two. I'll be the bigger man and leave you alone so you can lick your wounds 🤣🤣🤣
Grading should be present in my opinion but all aids should be free to use. In real life situations you will summon every aid available to you. Tasks should be resolved. And you can do it perfectly, adequately or you could fail, so three grades could be enough.
I think assigning grades that way is ridiculous. But I do believe in grade inflation. I think A’s are too easy. You only really need to follow the instructions and you get an A. Just following the instructions should be a C. The problem is A is now average and C is treated as almost failing. Working hard doesn’t mean an A. If you had two financial planners and both worked 60 hours a week for you they are both working hard for you. If one was getting you 15% return and the other a 5% return, the 15% return guy performed Exceptionally or at A level. The 5% guy performed Satisfactorily or at a C level. Just following the instructions, having the correct format, meeting the word count, not spelling things wrong or having grammatical errors, these are the bare minimum. Competition is a good thing. Everyone gets an A or no-one gets grades is not.
Did you realize that in your entire comment you didnt mention the learning journey? You discussed assessement of learning without put the learning itself in the discussion
Do you wonder why a college degree holds much less value in the job market today? One of the reasons is that grade inflation has spiraled out of control in the past 50 years. In the 60s and 70s, only 1 out of 7 students (15%) in college received an “A” for the class. *Today, an “A” is the most common grade given (45%) on college campuses.* Today, fully 75% of all college students are given given a grade of “B” or above. College GPAs have been rendered almost meaningless as a result. Ditto with graduation rates. Colleges are graduating a much higher percentage of their students these days. There is no financial upside when students flunk out. Nobody wants to kill their cash cow. We’ve all heard of the inner city high schools who graduate students that read on an 8th grade level. A similar thing is happening at our institutions of “higher learning.” Graduating the best and the brightest students is a thing of the past. The best way to devalue something is to make it much easier to achieve and hand it out like candy to almost everyone… just like a “participation trophy.”
"The rules of the society doesn't apply to me. I'll sit in some remote corner of an academic campus, enjoying the benefits of the state and calling for it's destruction because I'm a global citizen." Give up the benefits of the state and beg for food- the way true seeker was expected to before.
It happens here,in Romania as well that and the hardheaded teachers who do not understand that their subject is boring and most of us won't use what they are teaching us in a lifetime so they should give a passing grade and le ut focus on what we really need to.
I don't think grades are the problem. The problem is manipulating the meaning of grades to fulfill an agenda. In my classes, the students who sort of get it, can show me only the basic understanding get a C, students who are working okay, understand it okay, can demonstrate the skill okay get a B, and the kids who are working hard, understand the material well, and can demonstrate strong command of the skills get an A.
Old_Tree - Seriously? Grades are a huge issue. I comb my teachers’ grading rubric thoroughly. It sucks when teachers grade subjectively or based on their best guess. You may be an arbitrary grader yourself. I personally don’t work too hard in the classroom and I get straight A’s. The output is more important than the input. However, for good measure I always tell my teachers that I work hard in case it’s part of their grading criteria like it is yours. Good day🤓
This talk was very insightful until the end, obviously you can't completely end grading since it would discourage the students from working hard, making the bare minimum enough. I think grading just needs a reform, and I would like to know about this stupidity called "grade inflation" they are trying to prevent. If multiple students do well in classes, they can still distinguish their excellence through honors societies, extracurricular activities, and social contribution such as community service. Everyone having high grades should be a good thing.
Instead of getting rid of grades entirely, which i think are efficient both for motivation and for teacher accountability why not get rid of this grade inflation she mentioned as the reason for the 1/3 rule? I am studying to be a teacher myself, and while grading can be a disheartening thing which spurns negative stereotypes and horrible rivalry it is also an important part of education. Grades let you know how well you have learned the content if the grading method is based on understanding and application. Grades are also useful for the motivation it imparts upon students to aim high, both for getting that top grade and avoiding falling into the lower grades. Remove Grade inflation and grade as students deserve, as she did in her first semester, get rid of these University coordinators and educators who subscribe to this 1/3 rule and then evaluate the benefits of grading. Grading will/should always exist, because in the workforce and real world we are graded, on our accomplishments, successes, and failures. Removing them from schools will simply unprepare students for life outside of school.
belzamder - I completely disagree with your “grading should always exist” comment. I agree that you should hold students to a standard aka “mastery”, but grading makes no sense especially with your workforce comment. I think comparing education to the workforce is a bad idea because learning shouldn’t be viewed as a job. We all equally have the right to learn and we shouldn’t have to be discouraged by a bad grade. Also, even in the workforce, it’s not nearly as much of a “grading” mentality as education, so by your logic we should definitely lighten up on grading. Every place I’ve worked, I never get compared to anyone. You just need to get a certain amount of quality work done, if you don’t, you’re out. Sounds a lot more like mastery to me.
This lady is absolutely correct. The GPA style grading system is absolutely destroying the whole purpose of education in the first place! Just ask how a college student picks their classes. What I'm usually told is that they go on ratemyprofessor and pick the easiest teachers. They also say they look for "easy A" classes. All they care about is high GPA, nothing else. Then in the classroom, you can't help other students because you know if you help them then they might reduce your own grade! The school I went to used an even harsher grading system than the "1/3rd method." Our system was based on the normal distribution.
The whole GPA system should be replaced with a pass/fail system. Either you pass or you don't. If employers want to "rank" students then they should create some sort of standardized exam for them to take. Maybe like an SAT for whatever occupation? It will be not mandatory to get your degree and will be voluntary to take. At least with that type of system it won't corrupt the entire education system to the core.
+chris n I may be just a high school student currently, but I think you as well as this lady are absolutely correct. Just to give you an example of what is going on in my school currently, we're about to receive a state required test over everything we've learned this year. The problem? They are giving it to us this month. My teacher has already admitted she won't be able to go over every section in depth, therefor making us learn it on our own.
Now I love to learn. I've taught myself a lot about how education is taught, built my own computer (the very one I'm using currently) with just 2 days of research, and am currently learning how to play piano. But how am I really suppose to enjoy something thrown on top of me, with very little explanation? This got me thinking to a bigger question about what is School?
Do we go to school to learn, or just to get rated? Does an education even matter anymore, or is it all about test? I just wanna know that when I get my high school Diploma it means something, but does anyone else? I for one do not think what is going on is ok, and I want it to change. Obviously it's not something that happens overnight but we need more people willing to solve *this* problem. I for one want to do everything I can, but how many others want to too?
Christopher Nolan?
+King Melon wow you're an intelligent thinker
I did a research paper on Global Education. The top three courtries in education DO NOT use the grading system. The grading system is set up to fail students. Attending college I feel like we students are cattle being drivin by a cattle prong. You don't get to learn what you paid for. Instead, it's a quick review and then left on our own. We get more out of TH-cam videos than we do in school. By the time finals comes, you have no memory of the first eight weeks and the second half didn't help because you end up cramming even more in at once. College education is way too expensive to leave with only 30% (if your lucky) of your courses learned.
@@baileygarner5660 And standardized testing hurts students in advanced classes, if they don't remember the material because they haven't done it in 2 years, they won't do as well.
I discovered that it works like that only a year ago. I studied really hard for an exam in a difficult subject, and got an overall C (which is a good grade where I'm studying, but still, I wanted an explanation. I went to the teacher and we went over my exam, and said it was almost A-grade material, then looked up what he had given me, and it was a C - that's what fit into the Bell curve.
I had a teacher my junior year of high school who repeatedly said she rarely gives out As. It was really frustrating
If you take away grades, you won't take away the college's and employers' desire and need to rank you in some way. If you worked hard and really mastered the material then you should get an A, no matter what everyone else did. If that means a lot more A's are given out, well at least then colleges and employers would know you're among those who excel. In the end I would much rather be evaluated by what I do, rather than by what I look like or what "social/political clubs" I belong to.
@Supercollider do you have any data to back up your claims? Or are you just another one of these types that believe all the BS being spoonfed to you by leftists that claim, for example, that systemic racism drives most hiring/firing decisions without a shred of evidence to back that up? Absolutely nobody I know was hired based on any kind of status "club" they were perceived to belong to. Coincidence or just luck? Hardly. You need to subscribe to Thomas Sowell, he'll open your eyes to the real truth with plenty of research and evidence to back it up.
@Supercollider It was a valid comparison. And by the way, I don't believe you understand the true meaning of the word nepotism, since we now seem to be moving on to a nit-picking discussion of grammar, syntax, and the like. I suggest you look up the definition of nepotism again, because it doesn't mean what you imply it to and it cannot possibly account for global hiring practices.
@Supercollider so you're a Brit then, I take it? Who would have guessed that from the fact that the degree of your ignorance is only matched by the degree of your haughtiness? So tell me then, how exactly you support your implied statement that: "I'm not American, therefore concepts of racism and wokeness don't apply to me"? You think racism and wokeness only exist in America or only to a certain degree does it exist in America? I suppose you also believe slavery only existed in America or we somehow invented it? That's a laugh, especially if you are a Brit. If nothing else, at least your little comments have amused me this fine morning. 🤣
@Supercollider that's good, because you've already been shown the door and my prayers go with you and your family, bless their hearts.
@Supercollider by the way, did that definition of nepotism slap you hard across the face? Did you fly across the room and crash through the telly? I know I was anxiously waiting to hear you drone on and on (as I know you like to do) about how all those companies just hire family and friends to fill their ranks of thousands 🤣
Very insightful! I like hearing about ideas that change the entire education system! I have seen people struggle and never find help, which leads them to flunk in class and in their lives.
I'll admit, I felt horrible for failing assignments and bombing exams, and it makes me feel stupid and incompetent. But if educators became more efficient and didn't give a rigged grading system to their students, a large array of positive outcomes would happen.
3:30 nah, after marking the first 4 papers youre onto the 3rd glass of wine: giving everyone B/B+ avoids trouble. & if some one complains, remark to a B+/A-.
She’s right this is really messed up just because you don’t have all A’s in every class your looked at as a bad student. When in reality no one can be perfect in everything or every class. Their are somethings you will just be okay in and the professors and teachers have to realize this logic that even the best student or the student who tries very hard and has basic grades but is a good student. Will not be perfection in every class or every time.
Grade inflation is not "people who earned A's got A's". Grade inflation refers to how much easier it is to get high grades than in the past. A 1/3 policy idea is ridiculous. However, at least in the K-12 system, grade inflation is off the charts, so I don't think that there are many teachers making tests challenging. I can't speak to the average university but K-12 grades have gone way up while standardized test scores are more or less flat. What does that say?
She has a good point, but she is also forgetting (or simply failing to mention) the deep inequities facing the American education system. Many, many schools are not "palaces" as she mentioned. Many schools, teachers, and students do not have even basic supplies and tools. No matter what we do with our grading systems, if we do not address this issue, our schools will never come close to those in other countries.
Really old comment, but she is a university teacher. I agree with absolutely everything you are saying, but she is talking about universities specifically.
8:20 the guy sleeping with his hand on his mouth would definitely get a "C"
What universities or departments have these types of grading policies? It's hard to believe that universities or departments would want to demotivate their students like this.
+KCELT Kirkwood One of my professors told our class that they told her not to give out so many A's. Although, in her case, she really was an easy grader.
@Supercollider that's because at some point you're expected to be smart enough to learn things for yourself at the higher levels of the education system. Therefore, you should also be smart enough to appreciate and utilize research opportunities your professors have to offer to further your own education. Wow, picking fights with people right and left are we?! Let me guess what spawned your trolling ways: last night you caught your girl in bed with another man? 🤣
@Supercollider lol!!! YES!!! I'm two-for-two in egging you on to reply 🤣. My workplace just erupted into cheers and high-fives all around 🤣. Alright, I can see you've had enough and it's clear you're having a very bad day or two. I'll be the bigger man and leave you alone so you can lick your wounds 🤣🤣🤣
Grading should be present in my opinion but all aids should be free to use. In real life situations you will summon every aid available to you. Tasks should be resolved. And you can do it perfectly, adequately or you could fail, so three grades could be enough.
I think assigning grades that way is ridiculous. But I do believe in grade inflation. I think A’s are too easy. You only really need to follow the instructions and you get an A. Just following the instructions should be a C. The problem is A is now average and C is treated as almost failing. Working hard doesn’t mean an A. If you had two financial planners and both worked 60 hours a week for you they are both working hard for you. If one was getting you 15% return and the other a 5% return, the 15% return guy performed Exceptionally or at A level. The 5% guy performed Satisfactorily or at a C level. Just following the instructions, having the correct format, meeting the word count, not spelling things wrong or having grammatical errors, these are the bare minimum. Competition is a good thing. Everyone gets an A or no-one gets grades is not.
Did you realize that in your entire comment you didnt mention the learning journey? You discussed assessement of learning without put the learning itself in the discussion
Do you wonder why a college degree holds much less value in the job market today? One of the reasons is that grade inflation has spiraled out of control in the past 50 years.
In the 60s and 70s, only 1 out of 7 students (15%) in college received an “A” for the class.
*Today, an “A” is the most common grade given (45%) on college campuses.*
Today, fully 75% of all college students are given given a grade of “B” or above. College GPAs have been rendered almost meaningless as a result.
Ditto with graduation rates. Colleges are graduating a much higher percentage of their students these days. There is no financial upside when students flunk out. Nobody wants to kill their cash cow.
We’ve all heard of the inner city high schools who graduate students that read on an 8th grade level. A similar thing is happening at our institutions of “higher learning.”
Graduating the best and the brightest students is a thing of the past. The best way to devalue something is to make it much easier to achieve and hand it out like candy to almost everyone… just like a “participation trophy.”
Really very insightful
"The rules of the society doesn't apply to me. I'll sit in some remote corner of an academic campus, enjoying the benefits of the state and calling for it's destruction because I'm a global citizen." Give up the benefits of the state and beg for food- the way true seeker was expected to before.
It happens here,in Romania as well that and the hardheaded teachers who do not understand that their subject is boring and most of us won't use what they are teaching us in a lifetime so they should give a passing grade and le ut focus on what we really need to.
It's incredible that she can lie so devastatingly with a straight face and get people to agree with her as I can tell from the comments below.
I love school that easy to bunk.
I don't think grades are the problem. The problem is manipulating the meaning of grades to fulfill an agenda. In my classes, the students who sort of get it, can show me only the basic understanding get a C, students who are working okay, understand it okay, can demonstrate the skill okay get a B, and the kids who are working hard, understand the material well, and can demonstrate strong command of the skills get an A.
Old_Tree - Seriously? Grades are a huge issue. I comb my teachers’ grading rubric thoroughly. It sucks when teachers grade subjectively or based on their best guess. You may be an arbitrary grader yourself. I personally don’t work too hard in the classroom and I get straight A’s. The output is more important than the input. However, for good measure I always tell my teachers that I work hard in case it’s part of their grading criteria like it is yours. Good day🤓
What if understand all of the material and can demonstrate strong command of the skills, but I don’t work really hard? Does that exclude me from an A?
This is literally educational corruption 😢
Calling BS. Name of Institution and department chair. I've been around higher ed long enough to know if this were a thing.
90% of people here are teenagers
This talk was very insightful until the end, obviously you can't completely end grading since it would discourage the students from working hard, making the bare minimum enough. I think grading just needs a reform, and I would like to know about this stupidity called "grade inflation" they are trying to prevent. If multiple students do well in classes, they can still distinguish their excellence through honors societies, extracurricular activities, and social contribution such as community service. Everyone having high grades should be a good thing.
Is this true??
+Faiz Mujadid Yes it's true.
Before you know it schools will be on a 20pt grading scale and they'll be mailing out bachelor's degrees with junk mail
Instead of getting rid of grades entirely, which i think are efficient both for motivation and for teacher accountability why not get rid of this grade inflation she mentioned as the reason for the 1/3 rule? I am studying to be a teacher myself, and while grading can be a disheartening thing which spurns negative stereotypes and horrible rivalry it is also an important part of education. Grades let you know how well you have learned the content if the grading method is based on understanding and application. Grades are also useful for the motivation it imparts upon students to aim high, both for getting that top grade and avoiding falling into the lower grades.
Remove Grade inflation and grade as students deserve, as she did in her first semester, get rid of these University coordinators and educators who subscribe to this 1/3 rule and then evaluate the benefits of grading.
Grading will/should always exist, because in the workforce and real world we are graded, on our accomplishments, successes, and failures. Removing them from schools will simply unprepare students for life outside of school.
grading is pointless
belzamder - I completely disagree with your “grading should always exist” comment. I agree that you should hold students to a standard aka “mastery”, but grading makes no sense especially with your workforce comment.
I think comparing education to the workforce is a bad idea because learning shouldn’t be viewed as a job. We all equally have the right to learn and we shouldn’t have to be discouraged by a bad grade.
Also, even in the workforce, it’s not nearly as much of a “grading” mentality as education, so by your logic we should definitely lighten up on grading. Every place I’ve worked, I never get compared to anyone. You just need to get a certain amount of quality work done, if you don’t, you’re out.
Sounds a lot more like mastery to me.