DUALLY TURNING TEST! DENALI vs F350 vs F450! Who will dominate!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- #rv #towing #trucks
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Lots of discussion on the credibility of the test but I have to say that when I read the replies I sense that they reflect a desired outcome either in favour of a brand. I for one am very grateful that you have taken the time to construct the means in which a truck consumer like me can review prior to taking the plunge. Not many people can do what you have done nor take the time to help us so I commend you for you effort. I detect no bias in your report. Thank you.
Great video! This is why I ordered a 2020 F-450. If you want the wide front axle with pickup bed then Ford is the only option... Ram and Chevy don't offer the pickup box in anything bigger than a 3500.
I really like the wide-track front axle on my 2015 F350 dually (has high capacity tow package). Very similar to the F450, has a GVWR of 14000#.
You have a rare beast, you no longer can get a f350 toe boss package
Rui Almeida go tô Kelly blue book the have like 70
@@ruialmeida6679 : I'm not sure what a "toe boss" is (and I'm not sure I _want_ to know!) but I believe the "Tow Boss" package, when it was available, gave a standard F-350 many of the attributes of an F-450.
The F-450 is pretty impressive. It would be nice if the 7.3 gas engine was an option...
Yeah the diesel has more hp and torque
Its like buying AR-15 cambered in 22.. why would buy a AR cambered in a 22.?
@@HB-gv9sz If you are talking about towing load, you are correct. But if you are talking about payload, the 7.3l gas engine will give you significantly better capacity. The 7.3l gas engine is 700 pounds lighter than the diesel engine. This comes into play for people that have cabover truck campers.
The turning radius is why I crossed any of the crew cab/ 8ft combinations off my list. I used a k3500 denali to tow a 16ft gooseneck trailer and backing it was a nightmare. The trailer was a tandem axle, both located just aft of center (compared to the load deck), and when the trailer "broke over center" when backing by more than 25-30 degrees, the truck was unable to turn sharp enough to "catch" it- so, what should've been a simple backing operation (dropping the trailer into a parking spot, 90 degrees to the left) turned into an Austin Powers situation.
Borrowed a 450 to tow it again- night and day difference. Seems to have the same turning radius as a crew cab short box 1/2 ton. I really wish that the wider axle could be spec'd as part of a towing options group, or as a standalone option.
I totally agree with your test. But for the test to come across on camera better, maybe start from the exact spot with each, crank the wheels hard over then start the turn. Place cones throughout the turn on the outer front tire to represent the arc/circle. Then measure the circle. It’s just hard to visualize with the difference in start point. At least it might help the naysayers see it.
Awesome! Thank you! 👍🏼 it's nice to know TH-camrs actually listen to their fans!
Dang. I drive a 2015 F350 dually and never really had any issues turning into parking spaces or maneuvering into trailer spaces with our 40ft 5th wheel. Surprised at what a difference there is between the 350 and 450. Nice video.
I think the new 450 and 550 ford has a tighter turn radius. By the way take a look at the level ride mfg. We have it on our 550 altec bucket truck. No downriggers needed. Seems to make the ride smoother and absorb shock a bit better from driving it so far.
That is a really impressive turn rate on your F-450. Great video too! I don't know if anyone else on TH-cam has done what you did here.
Turning circle is always measured curb to curb. That's why the numbers seem smaller than what the manufacturers list.
what does "curb to curb" mean?
@@TheRoadTaken Outside to outside. He measure inside to inside
It would be interesting to see how the Ram 3500 compares to these trucks. Great video. I knew the F450 had a better turning radius. Kind of shocking to see that it was as great as it was. Thanks for this video.
According to your video, the Denali and the 450 were rolling turns. The 350 you came to a stop, cranked hard, then proceeded
This was a very flawed test.
Can't beat the turning of the F-450. Thanks for sharing JD.
The 450 is a beaut, I was told the turn radius is better in the 450s
So JD; I have three company trucks:
2018 GMC 2500 Crew Cab Duramax 6-1/2 bed 4WD (yes 6-1/2' bed)
2019 F-150 extended cab 8' bed RWD
2019 F-450 Crew Cab Dually 8' bed 4WD
The F-450 beats them all.....BY A MILE. The biggest baddest truck ever.
Why I ordered the 450 over the 350. First learned about the 450 turning radius from one of your earlier videos.
Me too! I haven't bought a 450 yet, but I will eventually, and it will be because of BTBRV's videos. 😊👍
the GMC went down a ways then turned the wheel. I see the Ford makes a quick turn of the wheel after starting sooner than the GM. Ford went less feet
What;s your point
IzzyBusy fords and garbage turning radius is for 30 years because of of profit margin‘s and not moving to a front coil leaf springs set up are much cheaper th-cam.com/video/pWOcFylJbsM/w-d-xo.html
Another great thing about F450 is it has 8 ft 2" bed instead of 8ft. It helps a lot when you are loading 2 pallets
A good way to visualize that 10 ft difference is thinking about how wide a lane is. A typical lane is 8-10 feet on local roads. So that could be the difference of making a successful u-turn or having to back up/ jump a curb in traffic.
According to autoblog the 3500 Denali has 27' turning radius
A radius is half the diameter of a circle. This test was of turning diameter, not radius. So double the 27' figure and you get 54'. He got 39' because he didn't measure the way it is supposed to be measured, but he was consistent with all 3 trucks so it doesn't matter
Great visual test between the 1 tons. Also shows that great advantage of the widetrac front end. Have a great day!
I'm not surprised my dad's17, 3500 non dually has a terrible turn radius but to be fair so did my 05 Cummins.
If I remember correctly, my 2 wheel drive vehicles all had much better turning radius than the 4 wheel drive vehicles. I believe the 4 wheel drive requires more of a turning radius so as not to creat too much angle stress on the drive components. That’s the only thing I could attribute that to. My bigger trucks (International, Western Star, and Kenworth) all had excellent turning radius as noted in the video.
They are all nice trucks, 2 foot difference between the 2? That is something, but not a major factor for me. Anyway, still need a baseball park or an empty parking lot to turn around in!
*_10 foot_* difference between the F-450 and the other two.
Yes, They all talk about turning radius. But for someone who doesn't pull trailer, F350 is no problem to maneuvering around town. I may do the U turn once or twice a year. You can plan on to drive one more block to turn it around more safely if necessary. They are both nice trucks, but wouldn't want to compromise the mpg, TPMS, more selection on tires of F350. So many postings are about adding Centramatic for wheel and tire uneven wear for F450.. So, I say to myself, why go through all that trouble. Anyway, I ordered F350 Dually Limited in Feb and waiting.
@@wj2791 Absolutely right about the safety. So many accidents can be eliminated by just taking a few extra minuets to go around the block or find an alternate route. Yea, it took you 5 minutes longer to get somewhere. But your vehicle doesn’t have to be in the shop for days getting fixed and you are not in the hospital.
U should measure the rear tires in a full circle or how soon they straighten the front tires will affect ur test.
Did you ever follow up with the Ram 3500 comparison? I may have missed it but I don't think so.
Really appreciate these head to head comparisons as we will be getting one of these vehicles in the near future. I had previously concluded that a 2020 F350/450 with the 4.10 rear end was going to be the choice, largely because of the 10spd trans and updated Powerstoke. After watching the earlier vids on the Denali, I opened my mind up to the GM products, but I think that I am falling back to the Ford products. What I've gathered is that the diesel GM trucks come with 3.42 rear ends and the 10spd. If you option for 3.73 gears (not seeing 4.10), you loose the diesel and the transmission reverts to the 6spd.... Does the Denali with 3.42 gears measure up to the F350 with 4.10 gears from a towing standpoint? Assume the truck is pulling one of the big GD Momentum THs.
“My” 2019 ram 4500 chassis cab work truck has a “wide track” set up and turns very well. Much better than the same truck setup but SRW 3500, the front end was much narrower on that 2016.
I own a 2017f350 lariat and a 2020f450 limited. I must agree with this analysis. Hands down I can turn my 2020 inside the 2017 circle
@BTBRV can you do a video on death wobble? What causes it, what brands and years are most affected, how to fix it, is it "normal" for solid axle vehicles regardless or should it still not happen? Thanks. I've seen a few videos recommended lately about newer model Ford Super Duties suffering from this and thought it would be a good topic because of the safety concern. Also, have you ever personally experienced this in any of the trucks you've owned?
For the next time you try to compare any turning diameter(not radius), with rear tire next to the line, measure from the line to the rear tire. The first GMC test was bogus because the truck was not parallel.
What ever happened to GMC’s quadrasteer? My first truck was a gmc Denali quadrasteer crew cab short box. That was the best drive ever. Too bad it was totaled. GMC needs to bring back this option.
it sold very poorly
you could measure visibility over the hood by driving up till one of the lines disperses and then measuring the distance. granted it is subjective because of seating arrangements
Can remember when you had our your F350 and than soon afterwards sold it for the F450 that you have now. At that time you explained thoroughly the reason why and it was it’s wide track front axle - it would allow you to turn much sharper. Than you showed by making a legal you turn what you meant and it was very obvious what you meant. At that time I was on my 3rd F450 and I never even knew there was a difference between the F350 and the F450 other than load carrying capacity. Thank You very much and a good job,Cheers
They turn better than my Nissan Frontier... but I think any vehicle does...
correct me if I’m wrong but it’s not just the wide axel. The GM has CV joints on the front axel where the Ford has U joints. The total turning angle of a CV is more limited than a u-joint.
Yes, that is part of it as well.
Excellent video lots and lots of good info the f 450 has a wider front axle than the f350 given it a tighter turning radius cause the tires stick out farther given more room for a tighter turn
I should test my 450 regular cab. The spec numbers put it at another 6 feet less.
Great video! Impressive F450 stat
Nice comparison. I'm going to take my 2018 Ram 5500 to a lot within the next couple days and do the same test. That should be interesting also. Your video saves me the trouble of hitting a couple friends up to do the test, I'll just use your numbers. Happy New Year!!
Check with the TFL truck guys, they did it a little differently and it seemed a little more accurate. Love your videos, very informative
Nice comparison. How does your measurements compare to the manufacturer's turning radius.
Also...It seems to me that it would be more accurate to make a complete circle, or try measuring the back wheels movement. Measuring the front tire's travel...after "straightening the steering wheel leaves room for error.
If they drove each vehicle the same way the room for error would be the same!!
Hello...thank you for great content. QQ: what causes sucky turn radius on F350s?😊
Great video I’m assuming an f250 would be about the same as the f350 does that sound right?
I just tried this with my 2015 f250 crew cab short bed 4x4 and got 32ft.
The GMC is weird something defiantly screwy. To my knowledge there is only 1 way to turn a steering wheel.
No offense meant, but those front bumper guards or whatever they're called look horrible on your F450. Those are just so ugly on an otherwise beautiful truck.
I’m torn on what I would want to potentially order when the time comes. F450 regular cab vs f-350 super cab. F-450 has the better brakes, ratio, etc., but the fact you can’t put wider tire on without ordering replacement wheels is a little off-putting. In addition, I hate I can’t get a Super cab like I truly want (don’t need a full 4 door) I don’t think I’d ever tow near 40k GCWR to justify the additional tow rating, but the larger brakes would be a nice feature to have on the F-350. I could probably get over the lack of a wide track feature if I could swap the larger brakes on an F-350
Just curious, why do you want wider tires?
@@dukegrapewin9440 purely For looks
@@jamesyork6023
Gotcha!
I was as well torn in between. 2020 F350 Dually and just ordered F350 Dually Limited. too much extra attention is need for F450 over F350. TPMS, wavey tire wear. I do not pull trailer so for me, it is F350 for mpg and lower tire cost..
@@wj2791 nice!
Great video and comparison
I'm sure you get asked this a ton. I have a 2019 f-350 crew cab short bed SRW. It says 5th wheel tow rate is about 21,000 lbs. I know I shouldn't max that out, what would you say is the max GVW on a trailer I should go? Without adding air bags.
There is or was a option on the f350 with the wide track front end
I’ve noticed and from experience rams have the best turning radius in the 1 ton line up segment out of these two if you don’t Believe me test it out for yourself and get a ram 3500 dually and try it out
JD, I just watch the video from Enjoy theJjourney about their truck being to small. I mentioned that they might think about changing their axle gear ratios rather then buying a new truck. Re-calibrate the speedo. What is you thought? Are they over their GVWR already?
After I watched this video,I was concidering buy a GMC heavy duty.Until today.When GMC turned down the government's request to make resperators.and the president had to enact The Defense authorization act.to force GM. I'll never buy one of there products again.
GM did not turn down a request to make respirators, that is Trump & Fox News BS. However, the F450 is the way to go.
Roy Allen Engineering no, GM and their union did something even worse than that. They promised to build 40,000 ventilators and then came back and said “we’re only going to make 6,000 because our partner Ventec won’t let us make the margin we want on them.”
And that’s why Trump used the Defense Production Act to order GM and their Union to build the order for 40,000 units immediately.
I will never buy GM again because of the behavior of GM and their Union after that. Guess GM and their Union workers are going to have to get someone else’s money. And I suspect a lot of people feel the same as I do.
The first thing you should know is Ford “does not care” they had the ability to change the set up on the truck and had the worst turning radius for 30 years. Dead last if you check prior years the Ford turning radius was the same as a running track at a high school! So a fact from the past has always been that Fords have garbage turning radius especially and until they abandon the front leaf springs which was way later in the game we were building very large storage units in Salt Lake City and we were not able to bring the Ford trucks into the storage unit grid as we could not get them around the corners this was the early 2000s so the task was really get it to all of our Dodge which had front coil springs which will still out turn even a new Ford since we build storage units for a living we abandoned Ford altogether for dodge as they were much more capable with trailers inside the storage grid.
We always used to joke that when we populate Mars one day there won’t be any Fords on Mars because the planet is too small for a Ford to make a U-turn, so it would be stuck just circling the planet. BB
Test a 4500 ram
Ram does not make a 4500 pick up truck
How about a 3500 Ram?
@@ruialmeida6679 yeah they do.
Seems like everyone bashing his unscientific method but in reality, it’s the same thing any of us would do. And this was a 350/3500 battle, he just threw in the 450 for comparison.
I'm not buying it. I went from a 2016 Denali CCLB SRW to my '18 Ford dually. First thing I noticed was how poorly the Ford turned compared to the GMC. Almost made me miss it! No way in hell the F350 out turns the Denali.
subjective to say the least, both trucks started from different spots, gmc turned further down the isle than the ford. Also how do we know the geometry of the parking space are equal since both trucks started their turns in different spots? The ford turned sooner than the gmc.
i drive a f450 Chassis Cab....turning just short of three U.S. hwy lanes.😀🙄
Video starts at 5:00.
Shouldn’t you measure 90 degree off front tire to white line not on a angle to cone?
Well it shows the the GMC Needs 4 full lanes to do a u turn.
It shows the F350 needs 3 full lanes and a breakdownll to do a u turn.
The F450 just needs 3 lanes to do a u turn.
You need to start with the wheels cranked as fully as possible when starting, this is a very inaccurate test. As an engineer I am very disappointed in you JD.
The entire test wasn't very scientific. It was more of a real wrong practical test. Results wouldn't have changed much though
@@BigTruckBigRV redo the test. Full crank steering the entire time. Make it scientific or give up the engineer card.. please, this is an embarrasment...
Thank you for your quick reply. Now I understand what the adaptive steering does.
Does a Gm 4500 hd have that ability too? Just curious
Measuring wheels are horribly inaccurate. FYI
Good Afternoon My Good Friend Of Big Trucks & Big Trailers & Big RVs & God Bless You & All Of You're Whole Family Today From You're Good Friend Timbo White
Thank You My Good Friend Of Big Trucks & Big Trailers & Big RVs
Can you get the wide track front end on a f350 dually
No.
You can can order wider axle on a 350
No you can't, not any longer offered in a Tow Boss package
Nope
Great vid
In watching your video twice, when the GMC was turned the wheels stopped turning before the truck straightened up. Therefore I call foul!
Big boy toys🤑
Shouldn't that be measured from outside the dual rear to outside the dual rear. Measuring inside doesn't account for the truck itself.
Yes for distance required to turn the truck around but no matter, you will still get the same result just his numbers plus the width of the truck on both sides of the circle
Y the different front bumper
Your 450 also looks about 125% better than that hideous GMC too!
Parked next to each other they are similar in looks, both very ugly. They just need the Chevy and Dodge in the mix to round out all the ugly. I’m not sure why the trend on the HD’s is going this way but it’s way over the top in the high trim models.
So your doing a 2017 and not 2020
If you want to do a accurate comparison on turning radius' go get a Dodge and a Chevy 4500. They both have wide track axels.
Those are chassis cab trucks that are not in the same category. Ram and Chevy do not offer a truck like the F-450
He has another F450 vs Ram 4500 video. Ford tighter by 3'.
That brush guard looks terrible.
There is a truck missing here again.
Have you tried the adaptive steering option available with the F35O. I would like to know if the turning radius is better than a 350 without it and if it approaches the turning radius of the 450.
I have Adaptive steering on my truck. It does not make the truck turn sharper, it just reduces the total number of steering wheel rotations needed to turn.
Whoever was driving the Denali turned a little late.
That’s weird... I’ve owned big trucks my entire driving life, and never once even thought about turning radius when buying one.
WHERE'S the Ram sir?
The dealership was busy and could get me one at the moment. Will revisit.
@@BigTruckBigRV
Thank you.
No European trucks here only American trucks
I seen the f450 turn before the gm did. Plus i think i heard it was on 4x4 on the road witch doesn't help it turn. Also you said something about a power steering pump. Gm only has electric steering now check your facts. Good job for trying.
They turned at the same point and even if the Ford turned slightly earlier, it would have made the results only slightly different by maybe a foot. You only saw that the sharper turning angle made it appear it has turned earlier. Also, where would you have "heard" that the GMC was in 4wd? Lol. It was in 2wd. Also, the 2020 GMC/Chevy HD uses a hydraulic steering system they refer to as "Variable Effort". The linkage between the steering wheel and the rack is no longer present (like most newer vehicles). Still has a hydraulic pump smart guy. It's a Great truck! Don't need to overinflate an already good review with your serious lack of knowledge and bias. Lol
@@BigTruckBigRV no you lack info friend. Im a truck driver and i own 2020 hd 2500 and yes electric steering. But my friend owns a f350 2020. And his truck turns good. There both great American trucks 🇺🇸
interesting. 9:00
So why not test a Chevy 450
because chevy does not make a 4500 14000#'s pickup truck
F450 is much better
Lord the new GM trucks are ugly. What a set back!
I already knew the ford would win before I even clicked. GM vehicles have turned like dog crap for a long time.
Not true the 450 has and always will out turn Goverment Motors trucks !!!
Thumbs down to this video. The 450 does have a tighter turning radius. Why did you not use the 350. The 350 does not have the wide front end, so ya the GMC will turn wider. Also the Jimmy does not have a power steering pump. It has electronic steering. I can turn very tight and never hear a squeal like you would with a pump. Sorry about that.
Right, the 450 has a wide angle axle so you aren’t comparing the same thing. POINTLESS VIDEO. it doesn’t appear you started the trucks from the same spot, clearly didn’t turn the wheel the same, and your end points seemed to go beyond 180* turn. Less than scientific. Compare apples to apples under the same exact conditions
Wrong.
Usually like most of your videos, this one comes never in the same place, inconsistency - you should have just redone it correctly. A little hit on credibility.
Most truck owners know the results but I couldn't help but think you leaned to Ford, of course the 450 has diff. steering doesn't it.
You should learn to do this accurately then post
this is bogus looking a 2nd time the lines of the spaces are at an angle toward the left, so the ford starts 2 spaces further back is how the difference is achieved...you did this on purpose!!
The measurements are solid though, so your argument doesn't hold water. Sorry. Also, the lines are measured equally. You know, why not just go to a dealership and do the test yourself instead of thinking I'm making a fake test.....
I agree and it looked like he pulled 4ft straight with the GMC and only 2ft straight with the 450. No way to measure that
Man the 450 turns tighter by a lot. Go drive one. Kudos to Ford for putting a pickup bed on a wide track chassis. The other manufacturers could but they don’t.
@@motohobo8826 look at the time stamp @ 9:00 says everything. Deceptive editing