2022 Compact Tractor Buyers Guide #3 PTO Differences. Independent vs. Live PTO, Mid PTO
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- PTO (Power Take Off) is implemented differently on some models. Learn the details here. You WANT Independent PTO!
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Love this channel when Tim’s rockin a Kioti hat! I appreciate the fact that Tim can get in any tractor and find the positives and negatives and isn’t brand loyal. Thank you for what you do!
Hey Andrew & Samantha! If you're Kioti fans, you should go check out our channel, Nolt's Power Equipment
Probably one of my favorite parts!
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Delivered a nice even cut, has the super tight turning ability th-cam.com/users/postUgkx1VWTrayKBdCKAjzAcZ_Eg4dhHTae3LkN also recommend I was looking for, and is just a blast to drive. It takes a little bit to get used to driving one after driving a normal tractor style, but once you've got it, you've got it. If you're cutting lines, you have to be careful spinning the mower around or the back tire will dig a bare spot. Just take it nice and slow during the turn and then it's back to full throttle across the yard!
I think it's really good you're using a different brand of tractor in each video to show the viewers all their brand options as well... keep up the good work!
100% agree with your comment.
The old Ford 8N and 9N tractors which had a huge popularity even today were plagued with PTO runout and you needed to get used to that issue. The other issue with them were very light front end. Add a 6ft brush cutter and it rivaled some carnival rides! Great info Tim.
We used to have a Ford 860 powermaster ( 8N on steroids). It had independent steering brakes and one was shot from steering it when plowing lol
😊Tim , I grew up on a small farm and have been driving tractors for over 60 years. Operated every pto engagement That you talked about .My favorite is the two stage clutch pto engagement for safety and ease of ware on tractor parts. Just my option.
Me to !
I agree I am 71 and still use tractors almost everyday life.
Just a word of caution regarding early "Live" PTO designs. Many of the Fords and machines that copied them used a hydraulic clutch to engage the PTO. Since the fluid can carry the clutch just like the torque converter on an automatic transmission, you can easily have the PTO disengaged but still start to spin when you fire up the tractor. Especially if it's cold and the hydraulic fluid is thick. Most of these designs have a brake band that tries to keep this from happening, but that brake wears out and needs regular adjustment. Typically an attachment that has a lot of drag will keep the shaft from turning, but lighter items like sprayers might not.
You didn't mention it, but there are 2 PTO speed standards. The classic 540 rpm and the 1000 rpm. Usually you don't mess these up because the two use different splines.
One other safety item. This is one I DRILL into the kids. Never, ever, no way, no how do you go near a PTO if the machine is running. I don't care how many guards, sleeves, etc are in place. If a PTO catches your clothing, you can't get away in time. Even if the machine is off, you can sometimes have significant binding in the system that when something is released, the shaft can turn. I keep a large screwdriver in the machine's toolbox to make sure I can move something in the system to ensure that there is no binding before working on it - even if I'm just adding grease.
Especially when you get into the larger machines, the PTO can and will seriously hurt you if you don't take every precaution.
Thanks Tim for showing my favorite tractor brand some love.. I have the Kioti ck3510se and have gone head to head with a few friends who have deere and kabota tractors of similar sizes and am proud to say in every competition we have put them through my Kioti has come out the winner. I'm just hoping I can win the longevity test but my tractor is only a year old so we will have to wait and see on that one..lol.. Thanks again for rocking the kioti hat.
I have the 2610 manual transmission. 270 hrs so far and not any major problems. I will lift the rear wheels off the ground lifting things on front end loader. I like this little tractor for doing small tree jobs. I have a grapple on front end for picking up trees and brush. I made a pickup snow plow fit on the front for snow removal. Tractor is lacking power when I mow the grass . I had to put wheel spacers on it to stick on my hill better and I do have the rear wheels filled with fluid.
keep it maintained well. My friends have them, and only issue has been the parts wait and availability.
I bought a L2501 gear drive a few years ago and it never even occurred to me that it didn't have an independent PTO like my MX. It was a good tractor and I made it work, but I sold it and got a Kioti CK3510SE (super equipped!!!) and couldn't be happier.
yeah kioti and kubotas are identicle the same with same design
Not at all, Michael. Fake news!
I owned a Kioti ck2610 with live pto. First of all it was a fantastic tractor it did things that amazed this old farm boy. Second, after about the first 15 minutes of operation using the clutch halfway to stop the tractor while rotory cutting in the woods became second nature and I didn't even think about it. Downsized to a 1025r so I could mow the lawn too but the kioti was the best compact tractor (I've owned several compacts) I've ever owned. Thinking about that nice 25 cab tractor you were in now!
The 2 stage clutch has a distinct stopping point for stage one so it is easy to know where to stop to change gears without interference of PTO
Two stage clutches work very well on a gear drive for shifting gears with the PTO running. We always baled hay with one and world frequently stop the tractor to let the baler consume clumps. I have also used a snowblower on one where you ride the first stage of the clutch to avoid taking in snow too fast... They are really well setup for stopping the tractor. Where they come up a bit short is you really have to depress and bury the clutch to engage the PTO. I often stand up and jam the clutch all the way down to avoid grinding on the gears.
Great video !!! My grandfather and father always preached not to start the pto on anything at 3/4 to full engine rpm
I love this little series. I especially love how you are moving from dealer to dealer to discuss the various features. Although you didn't go over the Kioti on this episode I got to look at one with you there and compare.
I’ve used a 2 stage clutch a lot, I have 3 tractors with that style. It’s great for baling thick hay with a square baler where you can stop the tractor with the baler still running when easing into big section of the windrow. It’s very easy to use. I like the independent pto as well. Both have advantages and disadvantages but I do not like a single stage clutch. Good explanations! Old Massey Ferguson’s have a ground speed pto where your pto speed drives according to how fast you drive. It’s nice to unclog sickle mowers and to Tedder hay without beating the hay to death at 540 rpm.
My Massey Ferguson 1740M has the soft start mode, and it is nice because it doesn't feel like the tractor is going to shake all to pieces.
Yay Oliver! Thank you for Independent PTO (for the history guy in the crowd 😉)
Pretty good series on the Buyers Guide Tim. Years ago, I had a Kubota L305DT with a Double Clutch system with a manual engagement lever for the PTO. When depressing the clutch pedal, the 1st position disengaged the transmission to allow the shifting of gears & then depressing further down with the clutch pedal to the 2nd position disengaged the PTO clutch allowing PTO engagement or disengagement. It worked well overall. Thanks for taking the time to go over the PTO system. Take care.
Growing up using old Masseys and Fords, and even now running one of my dad's Masseys to bale hay, both had the two stage live clutches. They work very easily to me. The PTO stage of the clutch was around the last inch or two of clutch travel so you have to purposely press the clutch all the way to engage the pto, very unlikely to disengage it while clutching to change gears.
My first compact tractor was a JD 4010, and it had the electronic pto engagent that was very abrupt. Multiple times I sheared a shear bolt on my rotary cutter. One of (and the last) time that I broke a pin was on the input shaft to the rear end of the tractor. Shortly after I made that repair, I traded that tractor off to a 2320.
Good to see you at the NFMS this year!
Yes they work very well
Glad you explained the PTO types in a way that is easier to understand especially for new people. Funny thing is I have almost 250 hours on a B 2650 and have never used the PTO
I had a Ford 960 with the two stage clutch and it was much more convenient than my 8n. Had no trouble shifting gears/directions with the PTO still running.
One feature not mentioned my tractor has is a mode where the PTO disengages automatically when you lift the 3pt and the switch is in automatic mode. It is handy when mowing. It has a setting for manual mode that ties it to the clutch and another that just runs as long as the switch is on.
The 540 standard is a bit unfortunate IMO. The lower the speed, the more torque that must be used to transmit a given HP. This causes larger belts, shafts or gears to be needed to take the torque, making for more expensive attachments.
My guess is it was a compromise to handle long shafts safely as any bend in them would vibrate more at higher speeds. Also higher speeds usually need ground gears to keep the noise down.
I went with a geared transmission because I got the tractor to run a baler and soil working equipment. It was $1000 (5% in 2008) cheaper. In hindsight I haven't done much ground work, but even doing loader work flipping the direction lever is pretty automatic behavior and it doesn't bother me. I had to go look it up, but it has a shuttle shift. All these years I have been clutching it...
Never had an issues running FIL's MF tractors with 2 stage clutches. Haybined, baled, chopped, and spread manure with no issues. Big step up from old JD B for me😊
Been operating tractors for nearly 70 years. Mine range in age from 1941 to nearly new. The oldest have transmission driven PTO. To stop the implement from moving the tractor forward shift the transmission into neutral as soon as the clutch is depressed. Never have sheared a pin engaging the PTO, but I always do so at idle with no load on the implement. Live PTO is a matter of getting used to how far to depress the clutch pedal. The older Allis Chalmers solved the problem by having both a hand and foot operated clutch.
Case had a hand cluch to back in the 60 s on the smaller one s
On my 4 series Johnny, I don’t feel an abrupt start on the electronic engagement. Even though it makes common sense to me, one doesn’t engage the PTO at high engine speeds either. That could be a different discussion 😉 Blessings.
In my experiences the 2 stage clutch is very easy to use, you can feel it when the drive stops and the people continues to run. I got to the point where it was normal operation. Going to the 8N without Live Power was a short learning curve
Problem is, a lot of the dual stage clutches, especially some of the Deere's from the 90's had problems with the clutch plates sticking together in humid environments if the tractors sat idle for weeks at a time. I am told this was because JD used inferior materials and never remedied or updated them to properly resolve the issue. I personally experienced this myself about 8 years ago on a 70 series JD. It was an expensive lesson. The only "remedy" I'm aware of is to use a block of wood to depress the clutch half way when parked ( I am told that this will invite other issues so it's not really a remedy ). I was forced to sell a tractor with a little over 400 hours because of this nightmare on an otherwise flawless machine.
The Kioti video you did before was one the best Kioti videos I’ve seen. The salesman was outstanding.
I was told in the 80'a on John Deere farm tractors to always start the PTO at minimum RPM with no load and add throttle after it is started.
You should always do that!
Had a two stage clutch on an older massey, I could change to any gear forward or reverse with the pto still working. Once you get use to the clutch petal it's relatively easy to do. Love the video
I was going to say, the 2 stage clutch should allow most tractors to be able to drive forward or backwards and change gears without effecting the PTO. I think many if not all of the tractors today that have manual gear boxes have synchronized gears, so you can shift gears while moving rather than having to stop and select a gear and slip the clutch as much. Should be able to drive them like you would a car or pickup with a manual transmission with most of today's tractors I think. Only have to push the clutch to the floor to disengage the PTO, to be able to shift the PTO into or out of gear.
Kioti has an "automatic" / "manual;" PTO switch. When you lift the 3 point too high, it disengages the PTO to save the u-joints. When you lower the implement back down, the PTO re-engages gently. Still a good idea to initially start the PTO at idle. Good video.
This series where you're at various dealerships is awesome!
A manual PTO is commonly known as a Transmission PTO. Also I have an old 1960 Ford 861. The 2 stage clutch works great for bush hogging. Can keep the cutter spinning but stop, start, and change gears.
Tim, it's awesome how knowledgeable you are about the industry regardless of the brand. Nice!
Thanks for the kind words.
Tim,
I own a 1999 New Holland 1720 gear shift with live PTO on a dual stage clutch. My machine has a lever i can flip down on the clutch pedal once the PTO is engaged. The lever prevents me from pressing the clutch to far, but still allows for shifting. Once done with the PTO, flip the lever out of the way and you have full clutch travel to turn off your PTO. The lever seems quite stout and i don't foresee any problems with it. For my machine, it's easy to move the lever with the tip of my foot. Owned the tractor for a year and so far it works perfectly for me. Seems far more fancy and easier to use than the Allis-Chalmers WD-45 and D17 I grew up with. Also, my hydraulics are independent. I don't need my PTO on to run my loader or anything hydraulic.
I bought my first tractor from Haltom not long ago, I bought the Absolutey super equiped 3510se I looked at Deer, Massey and Kubota my dealer experience at Haltom was by far the best..some of the other dealers didnt even get back with me on tractor quotes or pricing. Thanks for putting out quality content your channel definitely helped me make a more informed knowledgeable purchase on something I knew very little about.
Aaron (sp?) was hands down your most knowledgeable salesman when y'all were shopping for a larger frame tractor. And despite owning a Deere 2025R myself now, I was really tempted by that video towards a CK3510SE. But my lil' Deere swings well above it's weight, cost about $10K less and has changed my life for the better on our place so no complaints.
Great video. Deere's smaller tractors (1020, 2020, 830, 1530, 2030, 2630, 2040, 2240, 2440, 2640 and the respective 50 and 55 series ) all had "live" PTO with a 2 stage clutch. the larger tractors all had independent PTO. This was common among all brands too not just Deere. I have a New Holland TC29D hydrostatic and it uses the clutch pedal, I will say it is a little intimidating for people that don't have a tractor background. My next tractor no matter the brand will have independent PTO. Keep up the good work.
Growing up on a farm, we always had Masseys with live P.T.O. with 2 stage clutch. We now have a John Deere 2240 with independent P.T.O and I am trying to use it with a 15 kW generator mounted on a small trailer. Even with the the tractor at idle and the clutch fully depressed, when I engage that independent P.T.O, even with the clutch still fully depressed, it starts so abruptly, that it bounces that whole generator, trailer and all off of the ground about an inch, at first. I wonder if there is some kind of a clutch which I can install onto the drive shaft, to absorb some of that abrupt start. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Great video! I have a 2015 model year 1025R and while sometimes the PTO engagement with the midmount mower felt soft other times it did not. Using a brush hog on the rear PTO I sheared a shear bolt on my third or fourth use. After that I began engaging the PTO at a lower engine RPM an then bringing it up to the proper RPM.
I’m loving this series of videos on the differences in the different sizes, horsepower and physical size of tractors.
My solution to using the electric PTO engagement system is to engage the PTO with the tractor or zero turn mower, with the engine at idle speed, and once the mower/attachment is spinning, then i advance the throttle up to full speed. When i want to stop the mower, i decrease the throttle speed back to idle, and then i disengage the PTO button.
Just bought a 2510, same thing your in. Works great for what I need it to do. Plus heat for snow removal
I have a 2 stage clutch and utilized it daily when bush hogging. Thank you for your videos.
I am really enjoying this series with you showing and highlighting different brands of tractors. Excellent job! Thank you.
Can you review a Kioti vs John Deere vs Kubota! That would be awesome!
This is by far the best video series to date. There are so many options in this series of tractors and each brand has different terminology and even functionality. Explaining the different options starting with the fame size and horsepower and use cases and moving into pto function options and types including forward facing is perfect. I haven't looked if there is a next video in the series but if so, I'm hoping it's hydrolics. The different options for front and rear remotes, coupler options and practical use cases. I've enjoyed all the videos to date and this is one of my favorite channels. A big thank you and a well deserved well done.
Tomorrow …not hydraulics yet. Good topic.
I really like the long lever on the left side with Integrated clutch on the 5320, and in sure others! Very easy to modulate the clutch engagement, and totally independent of the clutch pedal. Great for both mowing and for starting up heavy attachments like a 24" stump grinder wheel or bush hog.
Hey tim, great video. On the topic of the 2 stage clutch, I’ve got one on my old 135 Massey Ferguson. There is a noticeable difference in clutch resistance when you pass from the first to second stage, almost has a detent type feel to it. Very easy to find the sweet spot as long as your clutch is in adjustment. And there is 2 adjustments to the clutch mechanism. One for each stage
When I was a kid on the local form one of the jobs that I had was to drive the tractor (Ford 5000) with a Ransomes PTO driven combine while the seed kale was thrashed. I had to have it in gear with the clutch half down to drive the combine then briefly lift the cluch to move to the next heaps of (hand cut) kale. At each move forward two farm hands would fork bundles of kale into the front of the combine. Yes they worked in front relying on me not to get tired and run them over. You end up sitting side saddle with both feet on the clutch pedal. Health and safety would just love that now.
The Kubota MX5200 HST I own has the rotary electric start for the PTO. It also has a clutch. I’ve not used the PTO on this tractor much. So far I have the revs down low, around 1000 rpm and then engage the PTO. This seems to work and has not required use of the clutch. However I’m using a finish mower that have blades with comparatively low mass and belts that have a bit of give. I guess a heavier blade on a slasher or powering up an implement like a wood chipper would benefit from using the clutch when engaging the PTO.
Back on the farm we have a Case 995 (which is a David Brown) that has what is called Live PTO. There is a hand clutch for the PTO and foot clutch for the gears. The foot clutch will not disengage the PTO. The Case 990 did not have the independent PTO, so the foot clutch would disengage the PTO.
I have a shuttle shift gear drive LS and the engagement of the PTO is electric, via a rotary knob. But there is also a rocker switch that selects between Independent PTO, or Live PTO, affected by the two stage foot clutch on the left. I have toyed with running the brush mower in Live mode, and can switch gears by finding that "sweet spot" of clutch depression, but it's more art than science. I normally just leave the rocker switch in Independent mode and let it rip...no sense in loading the PTO every time I don't depress the clutch correctly to switch gears or direction.
I agree, @13:05, that the electric engagement of THE PTO is an "all or none" engagement. I never first start the mower spinning with the throttle above idle...it's jarring otherwise, and I can't help but think some underengineered part internally will eventually fail. Of course, I could flip the rocker switch and engage the attachment via slow clutch release, then switch the rocker back to Independent, and go about my business. I tend to just idle down and do a more gentle jolt. No shear bolt issues because I have a slip clutch on my brush mower.
Normally there is enough room between the stages on a two stage clutch that it is no issue. On every one I have used you really have to push down to disengage the PTO. A more normal clutch travel will allow gears to be shifted.
Had an old IH300U with the nicest PTO so far. Had a wet clutch pack with an engagement leaver on the side to engage or disengage the PTO. I could start or stop the PTO completely independent of the tractor moving or not, and could feather start the mower at any rpm. Nice thing about the independent wet clutch pack was that when I bound up the mower it would slip just like a slip clutch on the implement was suppose to do (each implement did not need a separate slip clutch or shear bolt - the PTO handled that just fine). Bad part was it handled it too well, and the slip clutch on mower never actually got used (aka: it locked up from lack of use and adjustment). So when I lent out my mower to my dad, and he locked up the mower on some heavy cutting it broke something inside the transmission of his Kubota (bad PTO design).
I grew up on a two stage clutch tractor, works great up and down shifting and forward-reverse
I have a Kioti DK4710se. I love it! With 42” pallet forks I can lift a 300lb hopper bottom seed box filled with with over 2000 lbs of pig feed up over 48” high. I have the tires filled with rim guard and because I’m not a heavy guy, I use a pallet with heavy rocks on the back for counterweight.
Another great video Tim! very well explained and well spoken! i like how you show different tractors in your videos. I was born into RED (Farmall) then went green through my middle childhood.... just went back to a different red (Massey Ferguson) but love them ALL. you do a great job!
Tim… my first tractor was a Farmall A. It was actually an Industrial A… built for the highway department to mow roadsides back in 1954. The rear PTO was set up with a pulley to drive belts that redirected beneath the tractor. These powered a mid-mount mower. (It actually had a cool and very rare, exhaust powered lift cylinder that raised and lowered the mower. But… that’s a different story.)
I used it mostly for mowing brush in my 10 acre woods. It had what I called a “Direct Drive” PTO. Just like your Cub. It took me a long time to figure out how to get the mower up to speed and still be able to stop the tractor before it pushed me into a tree! I believe those skills are a lost art these days!
Thanks for this excellent overview… #livePTOsmatter!
Great video Tim! At first I wasn't sure if I was going to like the "live" manual clutched PTO on my Bobcat ct2040hst (Kioti ck4010) but I actually really like it now that I've used it some for ditch flail mowing. I like having the control of the manual clutch and it's one less thing electronically on the tractor that could cause problems down the road. Note the hydrostatic drive DOES disengage whenever the clutch is depressed. That may seem like a drawback but I've noticed that during cold starts it really is nice because I am able to start the tractor and let it idle for about 30sec before letting out the clutch. That way the engine gets to run completely load free at start up. I like being in control of the clutch and can let it out very gently. I don't have a 3pt post hole digger yet but I'm thinking that this manual/live clutch kind of setup will work well with that type 3pt engagement as well. Thanks again for doing this video! 👍👍
we have a Massey Ferguson 135. It has a 2 stage clutch and we have farmed with it since it was bought new in 1974. There is a distinct feel to the clutch when you enter the second stage and yes you can shift forward backward and change gears with out the PTO being disengaged.
I have a Kubota L 3800 that allows for the soft engagement of the PTO via mechanical lever. I enjoy your videos!
Tim, I started my tractor adventures on a couple of small Farmalls. A 1950 Super C and a 1960 200. Dad’s biggest complaint with his 2 tractors was the lack of a live pto. That said, we did an awful lot with those 2 workhorses! I much prefer the system on my jd 2520. It was a bit of a shock to “go backwards “ when I picked up a 1985 jd 650 equipped with the manual rear pto 🙁.
yeah kioti copying off kubota with same design
While shopping for a 1025R I told the dealer I didn't have a need for the mid-pto. He moved me up to a 3025E and it actually cost less! Only problem I have with the electric over pto is when I look back, if I roll to the right I have no problem, if I roll to the left the switch thinks I have left the seat and shuts off.
I fixed my seat switch the first week i owned the tractor …. If i use palette forks on the loader i have to stand up and look where the forks are going when i drive i to the fork pockets ….
It used to kill the engine every time …. No more of this nonsense 😂
@@ZILAwelds details?
You can figure it out, Jim! :-)
@@jimmccullough1051 if i remember correctly you cut the wires to the switch and “twist them together” with a wire nut
Of course you can solder or use a crimp connector or whatever you like …
I grew up on an 8N Ford with the old straight PTO, pulling a 7' mower deck, and running in to more pine trees than I can count. :)
Hey, Tim. I'm really enjoying your buyers series but I feel compelled to stand up for those of us that like the gear drive tractors. You mentioned the Deere D series tractors in the video. I have a JD 3043D and it absolutely serves my purpose here at the small farm I live on. I've been running all sorts of equipment for years so I've spent plenty of time on hydro tractors. And I agree with you that they are superior if their primary purpose is loader work. Well, sort of, anyway.
Personally, if my reason for owning a piece of equipment was primarily loader work I wouldn't have a farm tractor. I'd have a skid steer. They move faster, are more maneuverable, more stable and can lift a lot more for their size. A farm tractor is a compromise as a loader. I believe that the farm tractor has very specific strengths and that the gear drive tractors play to those strengths.
The reason I chose the 3043D is because of the way I use a tractor around here. I maintain the roads where I live and the weight and power to the ground that a gear drive provides are a big advantage to me. Also, I really like setting the throttle, choosing the gear, letting off the clutch and just eating up the ground. I don't have to hold down a peddle or think about speed.
I mostly use the PTO to run my wood chipper. It has a 150 pound flywheel and needs plenty of power to grind up those 4" logs. A gear drive transmission makes the most of the available power at the PTO. And again, the weight of the tractor helps to keep everything stable and solid when all of that mass is spinning around. I do have a brush hog and I use it every once in awhile. The PTO works well for that. Again, put the tractor in gear and let it eat.
The D series does have a shuttle shifter on it, though it isn't a power shuttle. In other words, the clutch has to be depressed to shift from forward to reverse. I don't find this to be cumbersome in any way at all. If it adds a second or two to the reverse/ forward process in comparison to hydro I'd be surprised. And, quite honestly, I'm not trying to win a race on my tractor. Here's where I guess a lot of years on tractors comes into play. Compared to all those old Fords I've run for years, having the shuttle is a game changer. No more reaching down between my legs and making the long shift from a forward gear to reverse and back again!
And that brings me to what I think might be the central piont here and it's the point I believe you are making. With tractors, experience counts. For the new tractor owner, or the guy that isn't using the machine nearly every day, a hydro makes sense. It is easier to operate, especially for someone that might not even be able to drive a stick shift car. But, for all of us old guys out here, I think that the gear drives still hold a lot of attraction when it comes to those sort of brute force jobs that we ask our tractors to do.
And they cost less to buy and own, too!
Thanks again for all the good content you're putting out there. I look forward to your videos and watch them all.
Excellent comment! Thanks!
My 4 series JD has the electric PTO switch. It is one of my few dislikes on the tractor because it doesn't feather the start at any RPM, in my experience. Have to remember not to throw it in gear at high RPM or it feels like every bolt on it is going to fly off. Experience with the 2-stage clutch back in my youth was anything but pleasant. Good video.
My first hydro TRACTOR was a 4wd 27 hp cub cadet designed by case. I loved it had the 2 stage clutch half way was pto all the way was disengagement of hydro thought that was awesome for cold starting had well over 3000 hrs when I got rid of it ran a 7 ft woods finish mower behind it, all fluids were amsoil
On my 3046R I can (do) start my PTO from an idle. I use a 60" Mid Mount Mower and a 3 point snowblower and a fertilizer spreader. The only shear bolt I broke on my snowblower was when I tried running a rock thru it. No matter what the PTO starts smoothly and efficiently. Since you now have one you probably already know that.
Keep it coming Tim. Always great info.
Really enjoyed this video, Tim.... lots of good information!
I've always wondered what the reason different brands of equal net hp, have different pto HP ratings from brand to brand?! (also, NO dealer I have talked to lately has mentioned the possibility of a "soft start" pto switch, so thanks for that nugget!)
MY biggest complaint, is how total HP is always hyped, when MOST work is centered around pto HP requirements, ...unless you plan on just FEL work for the life of the tractor lol!
Thanks again Tim, and looking to watch more of this series!
Tim, would love to see you do some episodes on the John Deere 4m series. For those of us that have one, there never seems to be enough content. Cheers!
I second this. I would love to see more info of the 4m John Deere!!
I think "Live PTO" is named such because it refers to the connection between engine and rear end. To get the action you call "Independent PTO" you need a constant or always "live" connection from engine to rear end. Sometimes this can be trouble also, on our 135hp tractor, we burnt the pto brakes so that the pto always turned whenever the engine was running. We done this after years of pulling a big forage harvester.
Excellent and clear explanation of the various PTO options. Thank you.
To touch on the “soft start” that you mentioned. Like you said, it seems to be a default setting on the Kiotis. My CS2520 has a nice smooth startup of the pto regardless of rpm. Even full throttle and engaging the pto it spins up slowly and smoothly without any abruptness. Very nice and convenient IMO. It was nice to see you on this shade of orange 😏
Tim, I have a 1025R and do not have a mid-mount mower. I thought that once you started to reverse that the PTO would cut out. I know I have a front mounted snowblower that has an electrical connection that I thought was to override the reverse PTO cut out. I always thought what a big inconvenience that would be for mowing. Please set me straight cause I don't know for sure. I'm liking this line of videos you're doing. Going into great detail and it's been very informative. Thank you and the TTWT team (Christy) for taking the time to create these videos.
The mid mount does have the RIO. It can be easily defeated.
The manual on my 3025E recommends setting the rpm to 1400 to engage the pto. It does engage very abruptly. No soft start. All of my implements have slip clutches on them. I imagine if you started it with a shear bolt on a brush cutter much above 1400 it likely would break the shear bolt.
I dont start my PTOs above 1000 engine RPM and yes it is abrupt but its better
@@gamerfarms9362 my tractors idle speed is 1200 rpm.
@@stonevalleyozark475 wow I did not realize it is that high most diesel tractors idle at 900
I like a 2 stage clutch over a completely independent PTO for using a rotary cutter, because if i get tangled up in something or get on a stump, I can instantly stomp the clutch pedal down to get the impement shut down vs trying to get my hands on the switch to shut it down.
Great as always Tim. Really appreciate your series on compact tractors. If not already on your list of topics to cover in future videos in this series, can you cover which compact tractors are the most stable from the factory (cab and non-cab) by brand because of width and which brands are most able to become more stable because they allow for aftermarket aids such as wheel spacers, etc. Thanks.
I grew up mowing with a 2 stage clutch. We had a fordson super dexta and that my uncle said was the cats meow. It was more like 80 percent in was for tractor movement and then the last 20 percent was for p.t.o. being 10 years old and mowing it was very great 2 stage clutch, because I could shift on the go from the seat but when I needed to engage the p.t.o. I had to get off the seat and press it further down and it was also harder to press down as you got into that second stage.
Sheared bolt on 1025R hooked to a chipper. I had never heard of the “manual pto” either thanks for sharing!
Awesome once again. So helpful on the pto options. Thank you brother.
Hey Tim. I have the 2 stage clutch on my gear drive Kubota. The shuttle shift lets you go smoothly from F to R with engagement. Great video
Cool information about the PTO, liking the series and the multiple brands being used. Well done Tim.👍
I have a 2 stage clutch. Yes I can shift while the PTO continues to be engaged. It's a JD670.
Cheers
Thanks Tim, that was a pretty good explanation. When i was searching which compact tractor to purchase, i was open to any brand, that offered the most/best features for a decent price, and of course great dealer support. I too stumbled upon the CX2510 from Kioti, and found it packed with features for a very competitive price vs some of the larger name brand competitors.
While initially I wasn’t struck much on the idea of the clutch lever pto, after some seat time, have grown to love it, and wouldn’t want it any other way. As you mentioned, it makes getting heavy implements spinning a lot easier as you can feather the clutch. I find this especially handy on bushhog/rotary cutters. Also, i like the fact that if I were to strike something hard, be it a stump with a rotary cutter or a big rock with my tiller, i can very quickly, shove my foot into the clutch and have it cease rotation, and hopefully, prevent any damage to the implements. Fumbling for a knob works too, but i feel the clutch method is just a little better.
While an electric PTO is fine if they soft start, staying with the simplicity of a manual clutch to drive the PTO, combined with the mentioned benefits, makes me wonder why it isn’t more mainstream. Regardless, love my Cx2510, your channel, and look forward to your content when it comes out.
Thanks Travis!
I'm hard pressed to get past my old cub cadet, but I'm stuck on it. It's 20 years old but still runs flawlessly. Starting to find more and more need for some of these modern features and some creature comforts wouldn't be too bad ether. Lol
The information has been informative regarding PTOs, thank u Tim and Christie.
Thanks Tim! Definitely learned something from this video.
You know you guys can come up to Michigan and do a video with my tractor on whatever you want Heck I'll even grill you guys some cheeseburgers or make some smoked meatloaf whatever you want Thanks for another good video Tim
Thank you Tim…the Kioti CX2510 is the tractor I’ll be adding to our homestead in May so this was valuable information for me. I don’t EXPECT to ever have any use for the mid PTO but I will be running a back hoe at least. Everything else I’m planning for won’t require it. That’s a grapple and forks. Still, developing an understanding of the PTO is always valuable. Like the hat too!!😁👊🏻
Kioti, loads of features, lots of lift.Best Value for the money ( and I Own John Deere .) Getting parts to fix something vs buying the whole assembly is like walking on thorns though.
When you said going backwards you hit the nail on the head in regards to Deere and the 3D series. When I first found out that they had done that I lost a lot of respect for them that day. Then to make matters worse they purposely hid that fact from consumers on their website so they wouldn't know the difference and then buy one in ignorance or use it as a bait and switch. Again my respect for Deere went out the door that day among other reasons.
Like you said about having the same pto speeds mid and rear. One big reason that, I can't easily move my mower deck ahead of the tractor is those pto speeds. Sure would make my sore neck feel better.
Looks like if there was a little more rain that business might flood. Good review
Ah, you were at Haltom, down in my neck of the woods. Looks from the creek like that was Monday!
I have a ck2610 gear drive im happy to see you showing other brands but I have over 200 hrs I've never had a issue with the two stage clutch to engage the pto
This was awesome, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Being new to the tractor world this is great stuff.
Very good overview Tim.
Great video as always Tim! Our first tractor was a Kioti DK45SE. Great value machine for sure. We enjoyed it a lot.
My L4701 has the electric over PTO engagement. It seems pretty abrupt, but if you do it at idle like your supposed to it isn’t going to break anything (at least that I have). I don’t know if it will allow engagement off idle, I can see it breaking all sorts of things then. (NOT going to try it!)
Great info Tim there, is a lot to these ptos with all possible choices. I have an older JD4400 hydro. The pto on it is a robust manually engaged unit. Its a wet clutch with 8 friction discs and 9 driven discs. Having wrenched on heavy equipment for many years I know how troublsome it is to repair these units. My advice is to baby these things. On mine I always warm the tractor up before moving it. When I engage the pto I keep the revs as low as possible without it lugging when engaged. As a note the manual says to engage at rated speed. I think that's crazy. I'm not sure about the units with electric switches but mine I have quite a bit of control over how it goes in gear. On some of these newer models like the 1025r they don't have half the discs in the pto clutches as the one I have. I wonder why it says to engage these things at rated speed?
The clutch for the PTO being a wet clutch, possibly could have something to do with engaging at full throttle? Lower throttle, lower fluid pressures in the hydrostatic transmission to absorb the shock from the PTO engagement?
I however, would think the same, engaging the PTO at a high engine speed would in my mind cause a lot of unnecessary shock to the tractor and the implement's gear box.
With my Kubota BX, I engage the PTO at a little above idle, and have no issues doing so, but I have a manual lever that I can easily control the engagement speed, and not have the dang PTO engage abruptly.
Love the channel and content as always. Glad you did another video with some Kioti tractors in it . I have a 2019 ck2510 and I've been super happy with it. Lots of options on it and I've done lots of mods. All the stuff you guys do in green can be done on other color stuff so everyone pay attention . God bless.
Finally a tractor worth having! 😉