Some might find it boring and slow but I've watched a lot of this guys videos and even though I have little interest in EVs, the info and depth is great and he's obviously passionate. His students are luck as f*ck and I hope they know it. Plus props to anyone in a wheelchair who manages even 1/10 what this guy does! ❤
I am an HVAC engineer for almost three decades now. I can assure you, this system is sophisticated in terms of design/compactness. Even more impressive is, that it seems to work without problems. The design engineers did a great job! Great job also from the Professor, fantastic presentation.
I am really happy to find a professional here. Can you tell me how does it work? You have condenser as heater 😮 in the winter is ok but in the summer you have evaporator and condenser in a pack! So how the procedure is done.
@@zabanfannikhodrohe system has two condensers (and two coolers) one in the cabin and one attached to the liquid system. A refrigeration compression cycle has always a hot and cold site. The real ingenuinity in Teslas system is that they are able to move heat and cold arround in the system (as refrigerant or liquid coolant) as needed in a very compact way. There is a drawing out there showing the piping.
WOW! I have been a HVAC service engineer since 1976. My instructor was brilliant. I have not watched any other instructor discuss a HVAC system so amazingly, in almost 50 years! YOU ARE BRILLIANT! I hope your students appreciate you. You even admitted to a mistake that wasn't really a very important issue, because in your presentation regarding the electronic stepper valves, you clearly said that they are four wire " modulating" valves. It takes a great and honest person to admit they have made a mistake, especially on a public forum. A modulating valve and a stepper valve do the same thing, but the stepper valve has digital accuracy. You have amazed me with the engineering that went into this. But the bottom line here is how clearly the information was presented. It is very clear that you are passionate about your subject matter. AND it is very clear that you love teaching. Weber State is very lucky to have you! Keep up the great work! Have a great day.
This is by far the most comprehensive, and understandable for non engineers, review of octovalve i've seen. Every video I viewed on this Weber TH-cam has been outstanding. Thank you so much for exceptional content. I hope you and your team will keep up the good work as much as you can. Be well take care
It is an older tech that has been used before. Maybe not as extensive but then again tesla had a serious problem with heat management so they had to do something, other manufacturers deal with heat in different ways and do so relatively well.
Sir. I never click on the Like button on videos. But I had to click Like on this one. this one was so impressive how you broke down Teslas heat pump system and showed every component. thank you so much.
@WeberAuto: John, minor correction on the "solenoids", they are computer controlled stepper motors. The stepper drives a rotor connected to a screw that can move the plunger in and out by super precise amounts. The term for the whole assembly is an EXV (Electrically-controlled eXpansion Valve). As the name implies, this is where expansion (pressure drop) takes place in the system. The advantage of the stepper driven system is it's more precise, and the computer can determine where the plunger is, so it doesn't need feedback. When you first power up the car, and at some other times, the steppers will "home" (run into the end-stop) so the computer knows the exact position. The computer in this case is called VCFRONT. (The front Body controller)
I was wrong. You are absolutely correct! I should have looked at the schematic. It specifies the stepper motor circuits at each location. Thanks for the feedback!
@Ingineerix I think in automotive, solenoids are so common that it becomes a ubiquitous term for inductor. So, since a bipolar stepper motor schematic consists of two inductors, each motor looks like two 'solenoids'
Thanks for that additional information Ingineerix! That explains the four way electrical connectors. Regardless, I am very impressed with Prof. Kelly’s knowledge of this complicated system, and his acknowledgement of your correction. He really does his research on how systems work, and can explain them to students clearly. Very important skills for any prof, and it is rare to find ones as good as it as Prof. Kelly.
When I worked at Tesla, I pleasantly surprised many of the technicians with my general knowledge/understanding thanks to you. You allowed me to confidently explain concepts to customers and even staff. Keep it up ❤
@@waynerussell6401 No, they are not really free to form a union. Not at Tesla anyways. Musk is VERY anti-union. * I'm not saying that all unions are great, or even good. But there is ZERO opportunity to form one at Tesla.
As a senior citizen and new Model Y owner, this video is a revelation. I now even better appreciate advanced engineering. Your explanation is clear and concise. Thank you for your valuable public service, and a good instructor is priceless. Your students will benefit for years to come. I wish I was younger. LOL.
These are the types of videos I have been looking for! I am thinking about a Model Y, and we all have seen the performance and tech videos, but to see how they tick is is awesome! They seem to be mechanically simple with very few moving parts compared to gas-powered cars.
This is superb engineering. Why do Americans are proud of German engineering and buy German cars? Those days are gone. Which car manufacturer in the world could came up with this design? This is American ingenuity. Thank you professor. Your work is awesome
Heat Pumps aren't new everybody got them in form of refrigerators invented by Linde hundred years ago for cooling beer. But it's real American culture in finance to invest in future products with plenty venture capital. In Germany are nice ideas but no belief in the future to get enough venture capital, so the green coversion fails. But hey, Tesla paid the development and produces real cars in Berlin, Germans will buy in the future.
@@udojahn8538 the impressive part isn't that it's a heat pump. the impressive part is the fact how its so well integrated and how many different parts its pulling heat from where normally you wouldn't even think about. considering it even works down to minus 40C is mind blowing by just letting the motors run inefficiently. that's just crazy. and it's very good news for someone like me where we get minus 35C in the winter for short bursts.
German cars are Garbage. Unreliable Crap. all they care about is pushing as much performance as they can from their engines and just letting them run for about 5 years then they just have everything starting to fail and leak. they don't innovate to make their vehicles better for the consumer, they just make their engines more complicated doesn't matter if they'll be reliable past the warranty.
@@mohammadkamran5862 1234yf boiling temperature is minus 30 celcius at 1bar you have to go behind standard pressure to still grab calories for minus 30 and less. Even the best mitsubishi hyperheating minisplits are useless at such low temperature (and they use r32 with a boiling point of -50C !!)
Wow, I had no idea the extent to which Tesla's heatpump system cannabalizes what would otherwise be simple waste heat from various motors and circuit boards. Thanks Professor for shining a bright light on such an impressively efficient HVAC system.
@@s.j452 I've now driven 2 Teslas through 2 long Michigan winters and can testify the cabin heating system is superior to any ICE car I've ever driven. Warm-up time is fast, heat is hot, window defrosters are efficient. No need for long underwear.
@@K0nst4nt1n96 It can produce as much heat as you want and it warms up the car much faster than an ice car. You start turning down the heat after 5 minutes or so. Yes, it uses the battery but when warming up the car before your departure, it will take power from the house. It's nice to have a warm car before leaving.
The amount of thought that went into the design of this system is seriously impressive. That they even thought using heat from the AC-DC converter in the charging unit - which isn't even used while driving - is absolutely nuts (in a good way). Probably more impressive to OEMs would be how many radically different engineering groups had to work together to get all these systems to contribute.
@@abraxastulammo9940 I've read that they offer a heat pump as an extra to the normal ac system in some models. Not all implementations of a heat pump are created equal, but I don't know anything about VWs usage so I can't explain the differences. But I doubt its as optimized and integrated as Tesla's (otherwise we should have heard about it)
Everything is liquid cooled in current gen Teslas and can be directed any way in within the system. Even the onboard autopilot/entertainment computer, which only draws/outputs a maximum of about 150W! I am not aware of any other car that does that. 150Wh is what driving one kilometer takes, so you run the autopilot computer for 24hrs at full speed and you could gain 24 kilometers. It really emphasizes the significance of it.
What would be unbelievable for LEGAs is that "radically different engineering groups" could work together. Ask Franz von Holzhausen what it was like to work on a different design at GM, where other designers worked to sabotage "his" project. Saboteurs never considered the damage they were doing to the company that paid them.
Thank you for making this content. Guys like you keep the world's billions of sensitive parts moving, and over all a much better and easier place to live in.
I'm not an engineer. This usually bores me. But since I own a M3 since 2018, I was willing to listen for maybe 10 mins. The clarity of the voice and explanation just basically hooked me to several more mins. Anyway, great job professor. Weber and its students are lucky to have you. Also, now I know why the legacy automakers are years behind Tesla.
As a Tesla certified structural auto body technician, thank you! I find myself watching a lot of your videos! They help me in breaking down the systems and knowing how all parts interact with each other! I wish Tesla did a better job at explaining these details like you sir! Thanks again!
This guy has what seems to be an entire tesla marked everything clearly named with yellow stickers and even a cutaway drivetrain! What a fantastic setup! Also the video is great, but just wanted to point out some fantastic setup he's got here. Any student of this guy is really lucky👍🏻
Your presentation is what glued me to watch an hour of heat pump education. I am a retired civil engineer but if I was a young man again, I want to be in your class. Thank you.
When he introduced himself as "professor", I had to roll my eyes like really? A "Professor"?...And then I watched the entire hour+ of the video and yup, A Professor indeed and a GREAT one at that. Very thoughtfully laid out the information in a very understandable manner. Great job, Professor :).
I've been working on cars for 20-plus years and you were the first person to easily explain why to use your AC while defrosting your windshield!! Thank you!
Excellent way for me to understand the functioning of my car more. I am a dentist and own two teslas MY with heat pump. I am so impressed with the tech these cars carry!
Thanks so much! 🙏 My mind was blown when you pointed out Tesla scavenges heat from 16 sources, blown again, when it uses voodoo lossy heat production from 6 electric motors in colder weather down to -40, and blown many more times until the last one when they fixed the no heat early production problem with an OTA update. All I can say is, I loved this!! ❤️❤️❤️ Cool. Getting the 2023 OTA update tonight with FSD-beta 11.4.2. Nobody does this like Tesla. Lotsa love to WeberAuto and your fantastic community from Toronto ❤️❤️❤️
Kelly, I had to pause half way through to thank you for your ABSOLUTELY AMAZING video which demystifies and shows the brilliance of the Tesla heat pump system! NEVER have I seen such a well laid out workshop nor video presentation before, except of course on your channel! You should teach Monroe & Associates how to do it (and I love them too).
Thanks Professor Kelly for running us through this complicated system. Something that you alluded to during the presentation was COP, which can drive an AC system in such a way as to be more than 100% energy efficient, which is the bonus of using a heat pump system over a PTC heat system for automotive climate control. Efficiencies of 400% are possible if temperatures and demands are tweaked, which makes a heat pump - in an automotive application - an amazing device/system.
I admire the depth of the engineering design! These detailed explanations make you appreciate the thing more fully. With this knowledge, you realise that what you have in front of you is not just a pretty wrapper, but a masterpiece of elegant engineering.
Tesla likes to promote every little bit of engineering improvement they make, and i think it is great for us as viewers to see it. Others have the same abilities it is just a matter of cost and importance of recouping very small amounts of heat, you eventually get to the point where you have to release that heat into the air.
Glad to have you back Professor! I've heard about the heat pump, octovalve and SuperBottle but your step-by-step explanation brings it to life. Every EV company needs to copy this design immediately!
Heat pump and heat scavenge has been used by other EV and hybrid vehicles for years. Ford did it with the Escape Hybrid before Tesla was even in the picture.
GM already did. Who knows if they are better. No evidence if the Tesla setup is actually better in real life over time - they were dumb enough to harvest outside air when it was near freezing when they first came out, clogging the front bumper with snow.
I don’t think EVs need to copy the design at all. Is it a good design? Absolutely. But having all of that in 1 part will always be superior in the long run. Losing 30 or 40 miles of range won’t be that big of a problem once solid state batteries hit the market. If something were to happen to this heat pump system, servicing it could turn it into a nightmare for the consumer.
Didn’t think I’d find this video so fascinating. That super manifold is an engineering work of art. I have a new appreciation for EV engineering and technology. Only makes me want to learn more. Thanks!
Thanks, so brilliant presentation about extremly well designed system. Anyway at least hear in Finland we have had some case when this system has broken wit coldt temperatures about -10 to -30 celcius. Does anybody know the possible reason for this malfunction in cold? And has Tesla found some solution for this?
Thanks for this great informational video. I’ve worked in the HVAC field for a number of years and I am very impressed with the super manifold design. The combining of several components which are typically separate and remote from each other is quite ingenuous. Kudos to Tesla engineers.
Professor Kelly, thank you! My husband and I teach adult climate change classes in Sarasota, FL and have a 2022 Y. This lesson was fascinating in its simplicity and clarity for such a complicated seeming subject and your teaching style is one that we've gleaned some knowledge from as well. We will be passing this on to all of our class participants and I suspect many, like us, will find themselves watching an hour of auto mechanics. Thanks again, all the best to you.
At 33:20 in the excellent explanatory video by the professor, Heat source 15, the air conditioning compressor, is a product of Toyota. While the compressor is also manufactured by subsidiaries in Japan and China, the 'scroll' component, which determines the performance of the electric compressor shown at 34:07, is exclusively produced domestically to prevent technology leakage.
Everybody talks about electric vehicles like Tesla having fewer moving parts and therefore less maintenance and less possibility of failure. However due to the sophistication and many parts of sensors, hoses, solenoids, check valves, pumps, I surmise that we're possibly back to having ONE of these parts failing to disruption the whole heating system if the heating system are indeed all interconnected and therefore back to possible unreliability of a comparable ICE vehicle. I sure hope the these parts involved have been thoroughly designed, tested for quality control BETTER than Tesla rear bumpers falling off during a rain!
One question as a person who doesn’t understand much of these stuff and first time I dived into the topic. Compressor: Is it powered by the wall (charger after ac-dc convertor) or always only from battery pack? And Amazed with this video and your channel after watch this one, and first time I felt okay I should donate some after watch this video 🙂thanks for sharing man!
Thank you very much! The AC compressor is always powered by the battery pack. The wall cord provides power to the battery, but it may or may not be enough to compensate for the power used by the compressor
We drove our 2022 Model 3 LFP through the past winter in Quebec and at no time did we want for more heat. It out performs our ICE car even at -29c. This video was very informative. Thank you
COP ...it's magic for energy usage and especially at 5.6 The clarity of the explanation is near perfect and the speed of the voice is Uber perfect. Thanks for a masterclass in knowledge transfer of a complex system.
I just had a ride in a New Flyer Battery Electric Bus here in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, where late January is usually the absolutely coldest time of the year. The bus driver, with me as the only passenger, was quite talkative. He said “there are no fluids”. . . which tells me that the bus was using resistance heating. The driver also told me the bus could run for about eight hours, but was better for shorter routes. . . like mine, which is a loop of about 10 km. . . I always learn so much from your presentations, Prof. Kelly! Thank you!
Thanks to Weber Auto for producing this informative video and posting on TH-cam for all to see. Prof. Kelly does an amazing job of clearly explaining such a complicated and capable system. I highly recommend anyone who wants a job as a auto technician to consider attending Weber Auto for their education. Tesla’s system sure is a masterpiece of flexibility and efficiency, transferring heat from anywhere to anywhere while also eliminating redundant parts.
Thanks John for showing us around and teaching us all about EV Heating systems and including the Tesla Heat Pump System. It's amazing to see the level of engineering!
You have no idea how important this video has been for me. I'm currently studying Marine Engineering, and your cohesive and clear explanation makes log(p)-h diagrams much more logical to me. Thank you so much! Best wishes from Denmark
Wow, I just geeked out for over an hour. Your presentation is so calm and professional. You present a complex system so anyone can understand it. What a fantastic video. Thank You.
Two times brilliant. One for the designing the heating pump system. Next one for explaining the heating pump system 👍 Thanks John, for your time and effort it's highly appreciated ❤
So many points of failure? Electric pumps, switching valves, high/low presure fluids routing throughout, et al. Then you have the drive train, computers, on and on. All in a rolling box bouncing around in variable and extreme environments. Brilliant and very well done tutorial. Thank You.
While I knew about the super manifold and the octovalve I had no idea about the extent that Tesla has gone to when recovering waste heat. When you combine this with the brilliance and simplicity of the design (compared to other systems), you can see why Tesla is so far ahead. Thankyou for an easily understood video. You have a new subscriber!
Others have had heat pumps forever, tesla is just harvesting heat nobody else believes is enough to make a difference to justify the extremely high cost.
"When you combine this with the brilliance and simplicity of the design (compared to other systems), you can see why Tesla is so far ahead." $20 you can't tell me why it's actually better. Does it have higher COP? Could it actually take less energy? Did you measure it's input vs output and compare it with any other vehicle? I mean, better check under the hood of your car to see if yours has jerryrigged material holding the heat exchager up LOL.
@@sprockkets it’s better than other systems because it is easier to build, has less elements that can fail making it more reliable, has less piping between elements which means less weight in fluid and hoses, and less cost. Do you want some details to send my $20 to?
@markedwards4879 no proof of is easier to build, no proof it is more reliable, when in fact driving the compressor harder and terribly to generate heat is the exact opposite, plus you ignore that repairs are HARDER. Something that looks good doesn't mean it actually is good. This setups wastes so much heat all over the place vs Kia just generating it directly in the cabin when necessary. THAT, is the better way.
Thanks a lot. I work as an Engineer at one of the OEM's in India. Your videos has helped me to build up the overall knowledge on EV's. My journey with your videos started 4 Years back on Chevrolet Bolt EV. Thanks a lot.
TWO things are astounding . . . Professor John Kelley's ability to break down and explain systems is second to none (sincere THANKS Professor!!) To make this complex level of engineering SO interesting is an ART : -) And it's done with SUCH humility . . . The second thing is my appreciation for the engineering that goes into a Tesla . . . INCREDIBLE ! . . . I thought an electric car had a couple of electric motors, an inverter and a computer or two and away you go . . . this video makes me wonder why a Tesla doesn't cost MORE! :-)
What a fascinating deep dive! Thankyou so much. Very insightful into Tesla's relentless drive to gain every ounce of efficiency while using less. Your explanations and knowledge of their systems is remarkable... and your ability to explain to laymen like myself is very much appreciated. I have seen several videos previously about the 'super manifold' and knew it "somehow" captured sources of otherwise wasted heat energy and range. But this video of yours showed exactly HOW in such an easy to understand way. I was literally glued to my seat for over an hour while looking at heat exchangers and manifolds.
Tesla has been fantastic over the past couple of decades. Exactly what we needed was the best engineers deciding the best and most efficient solutions for electric vehicles. Absolutely fantastic. My next car will be a Model Y.
John, your videos are fantastic, I learn so much. I'm a 64 YO electronics tech (RET) and enjoy how you teach about cars old and new. Thanks. Don't worry about the length of your videos, I just pause them and continue tomorrow.
Mate, I'm French and English is not my mother tongue, I learnt it first at school and then on my travels and now in my work and by watching videos like yours, etc... But your explanations are still crystal clear to me and captivating! I also love the enthusiasm in your eyes and smile, we can tell you are very impressed with this product and I understand why. I've had my Model Y since last December and after watching your video I'm even more convinced that I made the right choice, and that this Model Y is probably the best car ever built (maybe it's been beaten by a truck now... who knows ^^). Anyway, thanks for this jewel 🤩your students are lucky to have a teacher like you.
Thankyou from New Zealand! At last we have an exceptionally clear explanation of Tesla's heat Pump System, and how they scavenge heat from everywhere and super-efficiently move it around. I would love to know how many patents they have for the whole system. I enjoyed your octovalve explanation, and realised that it works on the same principle as rotating french horn and trumpet valves. I even wonder whether the original idea came from the french horn rotating valve.
Again a very educational explanation. Being smart is one thing, but being able to transfer that knowledge in another ones head is true genius. Thanks so much for that.
An outstanding overview of the Tesla vehicles heat pump system! Kudos to Prof. Kelly! I'm an electrical engineer, built my first EV conversion in 1981 (junkyard Mazda RX-3 to EV where I soldered the transistors for the speed controller), and now driving my third Tesla vehicle (a Model Y). Just an excellent practical explainer of the well-engineered heat retention, distribution, and cooling system that Tesla has come up with. Explained all the benefits of a heat pump system without gumming it up with nerdy thermodynamics or electrical theory. Pleased to have found your channel today.
Amazing. Every time I see a presentation on some part of the Tesla designs I start to doubt I could ever buy any other car. They are so impressively innovative compared to anything else. Who would have thought so much thought would have gone into a cabin heater! Sadly I'm unlikely to ever be able to afford a Tesla.
I wouldn't have a Tesla even if they paid me 🙄, just imagine the problems that can go wrong with them as the stupid overly complicated systems start to wear out. I'd like to see how much of a loss there owner's will have to deal with when they start falling to bit's.
Great explanation of an extremely complex HVAC system. Interestingly, I worked on a proof of concept hermetically sealed automotive a/c system in the mid 80’s for GM. We developed a 2 KW system with a scroll compressor and DC brushless motor and put it in a 1985 Buick Park Avenue. Our goal back then was to eliminate R12 leakage and minimize refrigerant charge quantity as an alternative to R134a industry wide conversion. Back then scroll and brushless DC motors were in their infancy.
The mister sounds like a controlled high pressure leak. In hydraulics, a high pressure leak will add a lot of heat into the system. Only they usually aren't controlled...or wanted. This was really interesting, thanks for sharing all this info.
@12:43 I had to pause and chuckle that of all the things... The blower motor is the one thing that hasn't really changed at all in 50+ years. Literally the mounting tab arrangement and shaft-length/cage-depth(Maybe CCW/CW rotation.) are about the only things that vary between makes. Honestly, (Having swapped one particular blower 5 times up to this point, I'm kinda intimately familiar with it...) it looks exactly the same as the one in my 89 Civic wagon. Air-movement tech doesn't get much better than a radial blower, and while I'd like to imagine that modern units use brush-less motors and ESC of some variant, I honestly would not be surprised at all if they are in fact, still mostly carbon-brushed permanent magnet DC motors, even potentially still using resistive speed control because simple and cost-effective trumps everything in the auto industry... Excellent video! As someone who's had his EPA 609 for nearly 25 years now, even I enjoyed your manner of presentation and explanation!(Particularly relieved to see any video where the thermodynamics/maths all check out.) I may not directly work in the automotive (service) industry, but I do particularly value learning new things and keeping up top date on things. Subscribed and notify-all! Keep up the great work. --Josh S.
The integration and packaging is very impressive. It will be interesting to see how reliable the system is over time. The solenoid valves and temp/pressure sensors can be points of failure, hopefully they have used quality components for this application. I do like that they have standardized on the solenoids and sensors
@@SanjeevSinha30 as the video says, other manufacturers have similar complexity but spread out with a lot more pipes. Having a single manifold reduces the failure points. It's a complicated system to design but it's probably easier to service. Relatively easy though, the single part heater is easier of course but a lot less efficient.
@@SanjeevSinha30 re: " Agree, the system has so many connections, seals, and joints, the chances of failure increase " Compare that to a 'hosed' system, where every hose and crimp has to be perfect as well, versus a one or two-piece manifold?
Call me cynical, but I think the Tesla HVAC system is another reason why older Teslas will be scrapped prematurely, because of the cost of repairs. The AC in older IC cars usually dies and it is uneconomic to fix it, but the heat still works so the car lives on. When your old Tesla's HVAC system dies, you will be left with no heat OR AC. And the only way to repair it will be through Tesla, at Tesla prices. That, along with the cost of a new hybrid battery and other components only available through Tesla, will cause owners to scrap their cars. I wonder if these people will pony up for a new Tesla?@@SanjeevSinha30
I normally don’t comment on a lot of videos, but this is just excellent! The way this is presented is really above and beyond in clarity and detail. I really enjoyed watching this, thank you for creating this!
I find this to be the best ever video of all that I've watched in YT,that attempts to explain the Tesla heatpump system in a comprehensive yet, easy to understand manner. The bench setup definitely helps in improving the focus for better understanding.❤👍👍
I have been waiting for this video! The additional heat sources (below 50F) for the heat pump system answered a question I’ve had regarding our 2022 Model 3. My spouse drives it every day to work (40 miles in each direction) and I have an app to monitor vehicle operations, including efficiency. The Model 3 is relatively unaffected by weather conditions compared to many other EVs, until the temperature gets low. I notice it more when the temperature is below 40F, the efficiency drops like a rock. It will get 4mi/kWh typically at 70F and maybe around 3.6-3.7mi/kWh at 50F, but it will drop to 2.8-3.0mi/kWh at 32F. It makes sense now why that is…the heat pump system is having to effectively “waste” energy to create heat for the cabin. My Ioniq5 has a combination of heat pump heating and a PTC air heater. It uses the PTC heater to provide immediate heat on cold days, then transitions to the heat pump once it has a chance to gather some heat. It also is capable of gathering heat from the front/rear motors, the battery and the power electronics, but in a much less complex (and overall less effective) way. However, to the vehicle passengers, the system actually works better than the Tesla system. The vehicle receives heat much more quickly, especially on very cold days, and it is also way more effective at defogging the interior. It can run the PTC air heater for heat and the AC to dehumidify without having to sacrifice one or the other like the Tesla does. I’ve had several instances (especially after supercharging) where I’ve had to wait for several minutes for the interior glass to defog since the heat pump system is trying to heat the interior, dehumidify the interior and cool the battery all at the same time.
Interesting, I really haven't had those issues with mine. However, I don't supercharge too often. You'd think heating the cabin wouldn't be an issue since it's trying to reject all that heat from the battery anyway. Unless it can't spare even a tiny bit of cooling capacity for dehumidification... But bringing in cold OA and reheating in the winter should be plenty dry to defrost. That's been my experience. Unless your winter means hovering around freezing. Our average Jan/Feb highs are only in the low 20s. I get cabin heat almost immediately even after it sits outside all day. Faster than a gas car for sure. Although I usually "remote start" a couple minutes before I leave.
@@sylvaing1 You won't have it at those low temperatures as the air already is bone dry when heated from -15°C to +20°C. The issue is more likely to happen when the outside air is warm and moist but still cool enough to condense vapour on the windscreen. Then it needs to be cooled down and reheated. That's when the cooling capacity of the system gets to its limits, and it prioritises the battery, as that can actually be damaged from excessive heat, whereas the passengers and windscreen (of the stationary car) won't take damage from moist air.
Blown away by the subject and your awesome explanation. Zoned out daydreaming of the possibilities and implications and woke up to the thought of Professor Octo Kelly ! The man who can explain anything! Then I had to scroll back to see what I missed:(
Fantastic presentation! BTW I have to say, I am super happy with the operation noise of the heatpump in my Model Y. I used to drive a Renault Zoe which also had a heatpump, but that was extremely noisy at cold temperatures, to the point that it's as loud as an ICE vehicle...
As a refrigeration mechanic I see this as an absolutely fantastic piece of equipment, I'm retired now but we never saw this type of equipment outside of a laboratory, I can see this technology could work well in home heat recovery, this has been played with for many years but never got off the ground, Elton's boffins have finally done what we couldn't do, effectively, well done. Can I buy a super manifold?😊
Great video as always! Could you expand on how the motors are driven in an intentionally lossy manner? I’d love to see oscilloscope traces or something, comparing to normal operation.
Thank you! There may be many different ways, but a phase shift of the AC current versus the voltage would decrease the "Power Factor" and generate heat. See www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/power-quality/power-factor-formula
@@xraylife Haters are gonna hate. This excellent system has been in production for three years now and I've not heard of this happening yet. If it does, there's an 8-year 100k-150k-mile (depending on model) warranty on the drive unit that will cover owners in the very unlikely event that this happens.
I was studying and comparing heat pumps for Home Applications and came across this brilliant composition. Thank you professor for amazing, simplified and brilliant explanation to tiny details. I was not able to stop video until it came to an end. Also thank you for putting everything together in one video and sharing. Have a wonderful day!
Super impressed with this super manifold. But then, I didn’t expect any less from Tesla. The explanation was also amazing. Thank you. Tesla is the ONLY vehicle I would ever consider buying. There’s no alternative.
@@webreakforsquirrel4201 Good point. The challenge now I suppose is how soon can they get the prices lowered, as this is an essential piece of the puzzle to achieve the necessary transformation.
John, Great job on the tutorial as always. You are a great professor! Your explanation of things and detail is very thorough. Weber should be ecstatic to have you on their staff.
You do an amazing job explaining the function of this car's heating/cooling heat pump system. Rube Goldberg would be proud of the engineering in a Tesla. Thanks!
Very good video. I am a retired electrical engineer and always learn something from your videos. I have to reach back into thermodynamics classes to follow the heat pump theory. Thanks for stepping through it logically. Thanks again for another fine video. All the best!
Is it safe to say, this is the most sophisticated temperature control system in a passenger vehicle? I have never really seen anything like this outside of aerospace vehicles. Obsessive attention to scavenging every joule of energy, in a compact package.
Do planes have sophisticated heat recovery? Maybe if they start making electric planes one day. I imagine jet engines make way too much heat that it's mostly wasted. Like if you bled all the hot air off a jet engine, you would melt the passengers.
I'm desperately hoping for a residential mini split system that can shuffle heat around within a home like the octovalve can. They have it in commercial systems but we really need it done cheaply for residential too.
@@dacharyzoo yeah heat pumps are the future for home temperature management. I have a minisplit system as well as a heat recovery ventilation system in my house but having a fully integrated multi-mode system would be awesome.
I am about 20 minutes into this video, and I’m realizing if my EV does not have a PTC air heating system, I don’t want it 😅 However, this video is an incredible breakdown, and reading the comments lets me know that you are incredibly good at what you do. I wish there were more people like you 👍
@@Techridrfor fear of repair cost due to seemingly excessive overcomplication causing higher chance of failure. One repair out of warranty of the heat pump system could easily undo any money saved over ownership between heat pump and ptc systems.
@@farmerbond4210 These heat pumps are on the most popular car on the planet as well as other models of Tesla and I've yet to see it as a topic of issue. Your fears of technology might severely limit you. The heat pump and octovalve is a crucial part of the system and extremely well engineered. Using PTC is 3x less efficient, taking like 50% longer to heat the battery and cabin while using. Fearling this is like fearing body shop repairs because a tree might fall on your car. Pointless fear
Superb! I have been hoping to learn more about the Tesla heat pump and manifold design as I had thought I had designed a similarly efficient system for the Trellis Transit 4-passenger pods. Now I can clearly see nuances in Tesla’s design that are truly inspirational. Thank you so very much for sharing this video - sincerely appreciated!!
You know, when I listened to your excellent explanation of Tesla's heating/cooling systems, I felt pretty dumb relative to the engineers who developed it. However, I was smart enough to listen to and understand your talk. Thank you!
Well, I always believed that this should be the way how heat management be like - collect energies wherever it is too much, and send them to wherever it is needed. Feels great to see that tesla already did it. Hope that more EV cars will do the same way. Btw, great demonstration with every details covered, Thanks!
Many thanks Professor for this superb explanation! It's indeed an excellent system from Tesla, but as complex as it is your way of laying it out plain and simple makes it easy to understand. Please keep doing these fantastic videos, because I have been learning a lot with you!
6:10 That GM design did most everything you are talking about today, but 25 years ago. It scavenged heat from the electric motor and power electronics, even the charge port! Of course, the lead-acid batteries used then did not need thermal conditioning so they were not part of the system, but otherwise it was a very advanced HVAC design.
@@akshonclip So why was Ford not able to put this system into millions of electric cars? It doesn't matter who first put such a system together, the important part is getting it out the door and converting it to sales.
@@HenryLoenwind Henry Ford did all the hard work in making mass produced vehicles cost effective, now every manufacturer reaps the benefits. Tesla is now doing a lot of the hard work in problem solving and engineering EV challenges and doing it cost effective for mass production, and every other manufacturer including now Ford, will reap the rewards in the same way they did from Henry Ford all those years ago. Ford, GM and others couldn't produce this level of complexity cost effective for mass production but they knew how to do it.
Professor is awesome! He’s absolutely correct. As a multi-BEVowner, cabin heat and/or resistive seat heat WILL dramatically reduce your range on an electric car, sometimes to the tune of 50% depending on outside air temp. Typically, a cold day below 30 degrees F will reduce your range 20-30% no matter what you do, even if you pre-heat cabin while on the grid.
Tesla is well known for their modular design. You’ve pointed that out several times. Such as how the inverters fit different motor sub-models. Taking cost out of the equation, would it be possible to retro-fit a resistive heating system with a heat pump assuming you could source the necessary parts?
anything is possible ... but it will cost you dearly, because none of the parts are the same. It was completely redesigned. If you replace all of it you still have to deal with the software ... and Tesla may not want to change the software on your old VIN car.
@@Poxenium I won’t go into a ton of detail, but I know from personal experience that the software stack (at install time) looks for hardware modules present and applies the software and config appropriate for the hardware which is present. While this process might be far too much change to work in a similar manner I have a 2019 M3 with a 2023 M3 module installed. The car blasts errors about the different hardware at first, but after a software reinstall it happily accepts the new module. Again, I’m not brave enough to do a heating system retrofit. I’m only saying the software seems it could be as modular as the hardware.
@@Skarkroe IMO it's easier and cheaper to sell/trade in the car and get a new one. It'll have the Ryzen CPU and other newer stuff ... maybe wait a few months for Autopilot HW 4.0.
@@Poxenium Entirely depends on what you’re after. I wanted CCS charging before Tesla was making it available. I bought the part directly from Tesla and it cost me $130 and about 45min to upgrade it myself.
Very interesting video, great breakdown of how it all works. It’s really quite impressive how the Tesla engineers managed to draw heat from every possible heat source in the car. Thx for sharing your knowledge
I wasn't planning on watching an hour of heat pump content today, but your presentation style is brilliant! Thank you for your work!
Yes, he has a great voice and sound quality.
Thank you very much!
I wish I had more Professors like him at university! I can't believe I just sat through, listened to and understood 90% of everything in that video!
@@farmerfarmerer3847great way to learn while you fall asleep lol
Some might find it boring and slow but I've watched a lot of this guys videos and even though I have little interest in EVs, the info and depth is great and he's obviously passionate. His students are luck as f*ck and I hope they know it. Plus props to anyone in a wheelchair who manages even 1/10 what this guy does! ❤
I am an HVAC engineer for almost three decades now. I can assure you, this system is sophisticated in terms of design/compactness. Even more impressive is, that it seems to work without problems. The design engineers did a great job!
Great job also from the Professor, fantastic presentation.
Thank you very much!
He's winging this...................just kidding.......most thorough insight I've seen on this system
I am really happy to find a professional here. Can you tell me how does it work? You have condenser as heater 😮 in the winter is ok but in the summer you have evaporator and condenser in a pack! So how the procedure is done.
@@zabanfannikhodrotfcvvc tv DC 9
@@zabanfannikhodrohe system has two condensers (and two coolers) one in the cabin and one attached to the liquid system. A refrigeration compression cycle has always a hot and cold site. The real ingenuinity in Teslas system is that they are able to move heat and cold arround in the system (as refrigerant or liquid coolant) as needed in a very compact way. There is a drawing out there showing the piping.
WOW! I have been a HVAC service engineer since 1976. My instructor was brilliant. I have not watched any other instructor discuss a HVAC system so amazingly, in almost 50 years! YOU ARE BRILLIANT! I hope your students appreciate you.
You even admitted to a mistake that wasn't really a very important issue, because in your presentation regarding the electronic stepper valves, you clearly said that they are four wire " modulating" valves.
It takes a great and honest person to admit they have made a mistake, especially on a public forum. A modulating valve and a stepper valve do the same thing, but the stepper valve has digital accuracy.
You have amazed me with the engineering that went into this. But the bottom line here is how clearly the information was presented. It is very clear that you are passionate about your subject matter. AND it is very clear that you love teaching. Weber State is very lucky to have you! Keep up the great work! Have a great day.
Thank you so much Bob!
This is by far the most comprehensive, and understandable for non engineers, review of octovalve i've seen. Every video I viewed on this Weber TH-cam has been outstanding. Thank you so much for exceptional content. I hope you and your team will keep up the good work as much as you can. Be well take care
Thank you John!
It is an older tech that has been used before. Maybe not as extensive but then again tesla had a serious problem with heat management so they had to do something, other manufacturers deal with heat in different ways and do so relatively well.
Sir. I never click on the Like button on videos. But I had to click Like on this one.
this one was so impressive how you broke down Teslas heat pump system and showed every component. thank you so much.
Glad you liked it!
I love his low key reactions while he explains this ingenious system. He doesn’t verbalize it, but you can see he’s like “see how smart this is?!”
every chuckle was infectious
@WeberAuto: John, minor correction on the "solenoids", they are computer controlled stepper motors. The stepper drives a rotor connected to a screw that can move the plunger in and out by super precise amounts. The term for the whole assembly is an EXV (Electrically-controlled eXpansion Valve). As the name implies, this is where expansion (pressure drop) takes place in the system. The advantage of the stepper driven system is it's more precise, and the computer can determine where the plunger is, so it doesn't need feedback. When you first power up the car, and at some other times, the steppers will "home" (run into the end-stop) so the computer knows the exact position. The computer in this case is called VCFRONT. (The front Body controller)
I was wrong. You are absolutely correct! I should have looked at the schematic. It specifies the stepper motor circuits at each location. Thanks for the feedback!
@@WeberAuto Do be clear, they are not solenoids. They are stepper motors.
Not only is it more precise but also more efficient.
@Ingineerix I think in automotive, solenoids are so common that it becomes a ubiquitous term for inductor. So, since a bipolar stepper motor schematic consists of two inductors, each motor looks like two 'solenoids'
Thanks for that additional information Ingineerix! That explains the four way electrical connectors. Regardless, I am very impressed with Prof. Kelly’s knowledge of this complicated system, and his acknowledgement of your correction. He really does his research on how systems work, and can explain them to students clearly. Very important skills for any prof, and it is rare to find ones as good as it as Prof. Kelly.
When I worked at Tesla, I pleasantly surprised many of the technicians with my general knowledge/understanding thanks to you. You allowed me to confidently explain concepts to customers and even staff. Keep it up ❤
You had an amazing job, why you left the company?
@@Iqtidar Their working conditions isn't always the best, and they're very anti-union.
@@swecreations Nonsense FUD
Workers are free to form a union. They prefer cheap stock options.
3.6 million applicants last year.
Some people just don’t fit into Tesla culture. No problem. Just leave like the OP was wise to do.
@@waynerussell6401 No, they are not really free to form a union. Not at Tesla anyways. Musk is VERY anti-union. * I'm not saying that all unions are great, or even good. But there is ZERO opportunity to form one at Tesla.
As a senior citizen and new Model Y owner, this video is a revelation. I now even better appreciate advanced engineering. Your explanation is clear and concise. Thank you for your valuable public service, and a good instructor is priceless. Your students will benefit for years to come. I wish I was younger. LOL.
Thank you
These are the types of videos I have been looking for! I am thinking about a Model Y, and we all have seen the performance and tech videos, but to see how they tick is is awesome! They seem to be mechanically simple with very few moving parts compared to gas-powered cars.
@@deranged731check out Munro Live
I like the muffin pan. 😊
This is superb engineering. Why do Americans are proud of German engineering and buy German cars? Those days are gone. Which car manufacturer in the world could came up with this design?
This is American ingenuity.
Thank you professor. Your work is awesome
Heat Pumps aren't new everybody got them in form of refrigerators invented by Linde hundred years ago for cooling beer. But it's real American culture in finance to invest in future products with plenty venture capital. In Germany are nice ideas but no belief in the future to get enough venture capital, so the green coversion fails. But hey, Tesla paid the development and produces real cars in Berlin, Germans will buy in the future.
@@udojahn8538 the impressive part isn't that it's a heat pump. the impressive part is the fact how its so well integrated and how many different parts its pulling heat from where normally you wouldn't even think about. considering it even works down to minus 40C is mind blowing by just letting the motors run inefficiently. that's just crazy. and it's very good news for someone like me where we get minus 35C in the winter for short bursts.
German cars are Garbage. Unreliable Crap. all they care about is pushing as much performance as they can from their engines and just letting them run for about 5 years then they just have everything starting to fail and leak. they don't innovate to make their vehicles better for the consumer, they just make their engines more complicated doesn't matter if they'll be reliable past the warranty.
@@mohammadkamran5862 1234yf boiling temperature is minus 30 celcius at 1bar you have to go behind standard pressure to still grab calories for minus 30 and less. Even the best mitsubishi hyperheating minisplits are useless at such low temperature (and they use r32 with a boiling point of -50C !!)
German cars are still purchased today as a status symbol.
Wow, I had no idea the extent to which Tesla's heatpump system cannabalizes what would otherwise be simple waste heat from various motors and circuit boards. Thanks Professor for shining a bright light on such an impressively efficient HVAC system.
Thank you!
Wear your long under wear when driving your tesla take your ice scrapper .
@@s.j452 I've now driven 2 Teslas through 2 long Michigan winters and can testify the cabin heating system is superior to any ICE car I've ever driven. Warm-up time is fast, heat is hot, window defrosters are efficient. No need for long underwear.
@@lenpalmeri6228it cant be better than an ice car as it cant produce as much heat but for the electric cars its very good and efficient.
@@K0nst4nt1n96 It can produce as much heat as you want and it warms up the car much faster than an ice car. You start turning down the heat after 5 minutes or so. Yes, it uses the battery but when warming up the car before your departure, it will take power from the house. It's nice to have a warm car before leaving.
J.K. is gold! Love his knowledge and the way he teaches!
Thank you very much Fred!
Always a good day when a Prof. Kelley video goes up!
Thank you very much!
Agreed. Always great content in such a relatable easy to understand way. Signs of a great teacher!
He teaches without any graphics and it’s amazing. Do like this format of learning.
I'm an HVAC service technician, just fished my day. And stuck watching this for an hour... haha, great video. Thank you
Lol! Thank you for watching
The amount of thought that went into the design of this system is seriously impressive. That they even thought using heat from the AC-DC converter in the charging unit - which isn't even used while driving - is absolutely nuts (in a good way).
Probably more impressive to OEMs would be how many radically different engineering groups had to work together to get all these systems to contribute.
Thanks for watching
But VW also does it?!
@@abraxastulammo9940
I've read that they offer a heat pump as an extra to the normal ac system in some models.
Not all implementations of a heat pump are created equal, but I don't know anything about VWs usage so I can't explain the differences. But I doubt its as optimized and integrated as Tesla's (otherwise we should have heard about it)
Everything is liquid cooled in current gen Teslas and can be directed any way in within the system. Even the onboard autopilot/entertainment computer, which only draws/outputs a maximum of about 150W! I am not aware of any other car that does that. 150Wh is what driving one kilometer takes, so you run the autopilot computer for 24hrs at full speed and you could gain 24 kilometers. It really emphasizes the significance of it.
What would be unbelievable for LEGAs is that "radically different engineering groups" could work together. Ask Franz von Holzhausen what it was like to work on a different design at GM, where other designers worked to sabotage "his" project. Saboteurs never considered the damage they were doing to the company that paid them.
Thank you for making this content. Guys like you keep the world's billions of sensitive parts moving, and over all a much better and easier place to live in.
I'm not an engineer. This usually bores me. But since I own a M3 since 2018, I was willing to listen for maybe 10 mins. The clarity of the voice and explanation just basically hooked me to several more mins. Anyway, great job professor. Weber and its students are lucky to have you. Also, now I know why the legacy automakers are years behind Tesla.
As a Tesla certified structural auto body technician, thank you! I find myself watching a lot of your videos! They help me in breaking down the systems and knowing how all parts interact with each other! I wish Tesla did a better job at explaining these details like you sir! Thanks again!
Thank you very much!
This guy has what seems to be an entire tesla marked everything clearly named with yellow stickers and even a cutaway drivetrain! What a fantastic setup! Also the video is great, but just wanted to point out some fantastic setup he's got here. Any student of this guy is really lucky👍🏻
Your presentation is what glued me to watch an hour of heat pump education. I am a retired civil engineer but if I was a young man again, I want to be in your class. Thank you.
Thank you
When he introduced himself as "professor", I had to roll my eyes like really? A "Professor"?...And then I watched the entire hour+ of the video and yup, A Professor indeed and a GREAT one at that. Very thoughtfully laid out the information in a very understandable manner. Great job, Professor :).
Thank you very much Moe!
I've been working on cars for 20-plus years and you were the first person to easily explain why to use your AC while defrosting your windshield!! Thank you!
Excellent way for me to understand the functioning of my car more. I am a dentist and own two teslas MY with heat pump. I am so impressed with the tech these cars carry!
Thanks so much! 🙏 My mind was blown when you pointed out Tesla scavenges heat from 16 sources, blown again, when it uses voodoo lossy heat production from 6 electric motors in colder weather down to -40, and blown many more times until the last one when they fixed the no heat early production problem with an OTA update. All I can say is, I loved this!! ❤️❤️❤️ Cool. Getting the 2023 OTA update tonight with FSD-beta 11.4.2. Nobody does this like Tesla. Lotsa love to WeberAuto and your fantastic community from Toronto ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you very much Douglas!
@@WeberAuto You're most welcome.
Kelly, I had to pause half way through to thank you for your ABSOLUTELY AMAZING video which demystifies and shows the brilliance of the Tesla heat pump system! NEVER have I seen such a well laid out workshop nor video presentation before, except of course on your channel! You should teach Monroe & Associates how to do it (and I love them too).
Thank you very much!
I agree ... but it's Munro ...
Thanks Professor Kelly for running us through this complicated system. Something that you alluded to during the presentation was COP, which can drive an AC system in such a way as to be more than 100% energy efficient, which is the bonus of using a heat pump system over a PTC heat system for automotive climate control. Efficiencies of 400% are possible if temperatures and demands are tweaked, which makes a heat pump - in an automotive application - an amazing device/system.
Agreed! Thanks for watching
I admire the depth of the engineering design! These detailed explanations make you appreciate the thing more fully. With this knowledge, you realise that what you have in front of you is not just a pretty wrapper, but a masterpiece of elegant engineering.
Exactly! Thanks for watching
Tesla likes to promote every little bit of engineering improvement they make, and i think it is great for us as viewers to see it. Others have the same abilities it is just a matter of cost and importance of recouping very small amounts of heat, you eventually get to the point where you have to release that heat into the air.
Brilliant instructor. Now I understand how my Tesla model 3 heatpump works now and its heat management and cooling system.
Glad to have you back Professor! I've heard about the heat pump, octovalve and SuperBottle but your step-by-step explanation brings it to life. Every EV company needs to copy this design immediately!
Heat pump and heat scavenge has been used by other EV and hybrid vehicles for years. Ford did it with the Escape Hybrid before Tesla was even in the picture.
Thank you very much!
GM already did. Who knows if they are better. No evidence if the Tesla setup is actually better in real life over time - they were dumb enough to harvest outside air when it was near freezing when they first came out, clogging the front bumper with snow.
I don’t think EVs need to copy the design at all.
Is it a good design? Absolutely. But having all of that in 1 part will always be superior in the long run. Losing 30 or 40 miles of range won’t be that big of a problem once solid state batteries hit the market. If something were to happen to this heat pump system, servicing it could turn it into a nightmare for the consumer.
@@NSUScooter Somebody always says "when batteries are pefect won't matter." Well it matters now and into the near future so stop wasting time.
Didn’t think I’d find this video so fascinating. That super manifold is an engineering work of art. I have a new appreciation for EV engineering and technology. Only makes me want to learn more. Thanks!
Thanks for watching
Thanks, so brilliant presentation about extremly well designed system.
Anyway at least hear in Finland we have had some case when this system has broken wit coldt temperatures about -10 to -30 celcius.
Does anybody know the possible reason for this malfunction in cold?
And has Tesla found some solution for this?
Thank you very much. Early versions had some problems. There is an updated super manifold and software available.
Thanks for this great informational video. I’ve worked in the HVAC field for a number of years and I am very impressed with the super manifold design. The combining of several components which are typically separate and remote from each other is quite ingenuous. Kudos to Tesla engineers.
Agreed! Thanks for watching
Professor Kelly, thank you!
My husband and I teach adult climate change classes in Sarasota, FL and have a 2022 Y.
This lesson was fascinating in its simplicity and clarity for such a complicated seeming subject and your teaching style is one that we've gleaned some knowledge from as well.
We will be passing this on to all of our class participants and I suspect many, like us, will find themselves watching an hour of auto mechanics.
Thanks again, all the best to you.
Thank you very much Carmen!
At 33:20 in the excellent explanatory video by the professor, Heat source 15, the air conditioning compressor, is a product of Toyota. While the compressor is also manufactured by subsidiaries in Japan and China, the 'scroll' component, which determines the performance of the electric compressor shown at 34:07, is exclusively produced domestically to prevent technology leakage.
Everybody talks about electric vehicles like Tesla having fewer moving parts and therefore less maintenance and less possibility of failure. However due to the sophistication and many parts of sensors, hoses, solenoids, check valves, pumps, I surmise that we're possibly back to having ONE of these parts failing to disruption the whole heating system if the heating system are indeed all interconnected and therefore back to possible unreliability of a comparable ICE vehicle. I sure hope the these parts involved have been thoroughly designed, tested for quality control BETTER than Tesla rear bumpers falling off during a rain!
This video series should never stop this Professor and Tesla are a match in heaven :)
Thank you!
One question as a person who doesn’t understand much of these stuff and first time I dived into the topic. Compressor: Is it powered by the wall (charger after ac-dc convertor) or always only from battery pack? And Amazed with this video and your channel after watch this one, and first time I felt okay I should donate some after watch this video 🙂thanks for sharing man!
Thank you very much! The AC compressor is always powered by the battery pack. The wall cord provides power to the battery, but it may or may not be enough to compensate for the power used by the compressor
We drove our 2022 Model 3 LFP through the past winter in Quebec and at no time did we want for more heat. It out performs our ICE car even at -29c. This video was very informative. Thank you
Great information, thank you!
COP ...it's magic for energy usage and especially at 5.6
The clarity of the explanation is near perfect and the speed of the voice is Uber perfect.
Thanks for a masterclass in knowledge transfer of a complex system.
Professor Kelly! Very, very cool, and very, very warm! Exemplary teaching sir! Logical, concise, clear, thorough! You are very much appreciated.
Thank you very much!
I just had a ride in a New Flyer Battery Electric Bus here in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, where late January is usually the absolutely coldest time of the year. The bus driver, with me as the only passenger, was quite talkative. He said “there are no fluids”. . . which tells me that the bus was using resistance heating. The driver also told me the bus could run for about eight hours, but was better for shorter routes. . . like mine, which is a loop of about 10 km. . .
I always learn so much from your presentations, Prof. Kelly! Thank you!
Thanks to Weber Auto for producing this informative video and posting on TH-cam for all to see. Prof. Kelly does an amazing job of clearly explaining such a complicated and capable system. I highly recommend anyone who wants a job as a auto technician to consider attending Weber Auto for their education. Tesla’s system sure is a masterpiece of flexibility and efficiency, transferring heat from anywhere to anywhere while also eliminating redundant parts.
Thank you George!
Wow, such an mazing video. So well put together and helpful to understand the system. Shows how much effort Tesla put in this system.
Thank you!
Thanks John for showing us around and teaching us all about EV Heating systems and including the Tesla Heat Pump System. It's amazing to see the level of engineering!
You are very welcome, thank you for watching
You have no idea how important this video has been for me. I'm currently studying Marine Engineering, and your cohesive and clear explanation makes log(p)-h diagrams much more logical to me. Thank you so much! Best wishes from Denmark
Best of luck! Thanks
Wow, I just geeked out for over an hour. Your presentation is so calm and professional. You present a complex system so anyone can understand it. What a fantastic video. Thank You.
Thank you!
Thanks, love your videos, you’re a great educator, Alex
Thank you very much Alex. Much appreciated!
Two times brilliant.
One for the designing the heating pump system.
Next one for explaining the heating pump system 👍
Thanks John, for your time and effort it's highly appreciated ❤
Thank you Allan!
So many points of failure? Electric pumps, switching valves, high/low presure fluids routing throughout, et al. Then you have the drive train, computers, on and on. All in a rolling box bouncing around in variable and extreme environments.
Brilliant and very well done tutorial. Thank You.
Thanks for watching
While I knew about the super manifold and the octovalve I had no idea about the extent that Tesla has gone to when recovering waste heat. When you combine this with the brilliance and simplicity of the design (compared to other systems), you can see why Tesla is so far ahead.
Thankyou for an easily understood video. You have a new subscriber!
Thank you Mark!
Others have had heat pumps forever, tesla is just harvesting heat nobody else believes is enough to make a difference to justify the extremely high cost.
"When you combine this with the brilliance and simplicity of the design (compared to other systems), you can see why Tesla is so far ahead."
$20 you can't tell me why it's actually better. Does it have higher COP? Could it actually take less energy? Did you measure it's input vs output and compare it with any other vehicle?
I mean, better check under the hood of your car to see if yours has jerryrigged material holding the heat exchager up LOL.
@@sprockkets it’s better than other systems because it is easier to build, has less elements that can fail making it more reliable, has less piping between elements which means less weight in fluid and hoses, and less cost.
Do you want some details to send my $20 to?
@markedwards4879 no proof of is easier to build, no proof it is more reliable, when in fact driving the compressor harder and terribly to generate heat is the exact opposite, plus you ignore that repairs are HARDER.
Something that looks good doesn't mean it actually is good. This setups wastes so much heat all over the place vs Kia just generating it directly in the cabin when necessary. THAT, is the better way.
Thanks a lot. I work as an Engineer at one of the OEM's in India. Your videos has helped me to build up the overall knowledge on EV's.
My journey with your videos started 4 Years back on Chevrolet Bolt EV.
Thanks a lot.
Great to hear! Thanks
Professor Kelly is a "knowledge hyper charger". Amazing one-of-kind teaching skills! Literally excellent! 👍👍
Thank you very much!
TWO things are astounding . . . Professor John Kelley's ability to break down and explain systems is second to none (sincere THANKS Professor!!) To make this complex level of engineering SO interesting is an ART : -) And it's done with SUCH humility . . . The second thing is my appreciation for the engineering that goes into a Tesla . . . INCREDIBLE ! . . . I thought an electric car had a couple of electric motors, an inverter and a computer or two and away you go . . . this video makes me wonder why a Tesla doesn't cost MORE! :-)
Thank you very much!
What a fascinating deep dive! Thankyou so much. Very insightful into Tesla's relentless drive to gain every ounce of efficiency while using less. Your explanations and knowledge of their systems is remarkable... and your ability to explain to laymen like myself is very much appreciated. I have seen several videos previously about the 'super manifold' and knew it "somehow" captured sources of otherwise wasted heat energy and range. But this video of yours showed exactly HOW in such an easy to understand way. I was literally glued to my seat for over an hour while looking at heat exchangers and manifolds.
Thank you so much!
Tesla has been fantastic over the past couple of decades.
Exactly what we needed was the best engineers deciding the best and most efficient solutions for electric vehicles.
Absolutely fantastic.
My next car will be a Model Y.
Incredibly complicated yet simple system and as always explained in extreme detail in a simple format. Thank you again Professor Kelly.
Thank you very much!
John, your videos are fantastic, I learn so much. I'm a 64 YO electronics tech (RET) and enjoy how you teach about cars old and new. Thanks. Don't worry about the length of your videos, I just pause them and continue tomorrow.
Lol. Thank you very much
Это инженерное искуство! Верх энерго эфективности! Спасибо за Ваш труд.
Спасибо
Mate, I'm French and English is not my mother tongue, I learnt it first at school and then on my travels and now in my work and by watching videos like yours, etc... But your explanations are still crystal clear to me and captivating! I also love the enthusiasm in your eyes and smile, we can tell you are very impressed with this product and I understand why. I've had my Model Y since last December and after watching your video I'm even more convinced that I made the right choice, and that this Model Y is probably the best car ever built (maybe it's been beaten by a truck now... who knows ^^).
Anyway, thanks for this jewel 🤩your students are lucky to have a teacher like you.
Thankyou from New Zealand! At last we have an exceptionally clear explanation of Tesla's heat Pump System, and how they scavenge heat from everywhere and super-efficiently move it around. I would love to know how many patents they have for the whole system. I enjoyed your octovalve explanation, and realised that it works on the same principle as rotating french horn and trumpet valves. I even wonder whether the original idea came from the french horn rotating valve.
Thanks for watching. I do not know how many patents.
This is way more than I thought I ever wanted to know about this, so why can't I stop watching it? Exceptional presentation!
Lol, thank you!
Again a very educational explanation. Being smart is one thing, but being able to transfer that knowledge in another ones head is true genius. Thanks so much for that.
Thank you!
An outstanding overview of the Tesla vehicles heat pump system! Kudos to Prof. Kelly!
I'm an electrical engineer, built my first EV conversion in 1981 (junkyard Mazda RX-3 to EV where I soldered the transistors for the speed controller), and now driving my third Tesla vehicle (a Model Y). Just an excellent practical explainer of the well-engineered heat retention, distribution, and cooling system that Tesla has come up with. Explained all the benefits of a heat pump system without gumming it up with nerdy thermodynamics or electrical theory.
Pleased to have found your channel today.
Amazing. Every time I see a presentation on some part of the Tesla designs I start to doubt I could ever buy any other car. They are so impressively innovative compared to anything else. Who would have thought so much thought would have gone into a cabin heater! Sadly I'm unlikely to ever be able to afford a Tesla.
My employees get one for free incl. charging, as long as they work for me. ☺️
@@Stefan_Dahn Great. What can I do for you?
I wouldn't have a Tesla even if they paid me 🙄, just imagine the problems that can go wrong with them as the stupid overly complicated systems start to wear out.
I'd like to see how much of a loss there owner's will have to deal with when they start falling to bit's.
@@stephenjones9153 ok boomer
@@chekelley6861 🤣😂🤣😂🤣Boom is what Tesla,s do 😂🤣😂
Great explanation of an extremely complex HVAC system. Interestingly, I worked on a proof of concept hermetically sealed automotive a/c system in the mid 80’s for GM. We developed a 2 KW system with a scroll compressor and DC brushless motor and put it in a 1985 Buick Park Avenue. Our goal back then was to eliminate R12 leakage and minimize refrigerant charge quantity as an alternative to R134a industry wide conversion. Back then scroll and brushless DC motors were in their infancy.
The mister sounds like a controlled high pressure leak. In hydraulics, a high pressure leak will add a lot of heat into the system. Only they usually aren't controlled...or wanted.
This was really interesting, thanks for sharing all this info.
Thank you very much!
@12:43 I had to pause and chuckle that of all the things... The blower motor is the one thing that hasn't really changed at all in 50+ years. Literally the mounting tab arrangement and shaft-length/cage-depth(Maybe CCW/CW rotation.) are about the only things that vary between makes.
Honestly, (Having swapped one particular blower 5 times up to this point, I'm kinda intimately familiar with it...) it looks exactly the same as the one in my 89 Civic wagon.
Air-movement tech doesn't get much better than a radial blower, and while I'd like to imagine that modern units use brush-less motors and ESC of some variant, I honestly would not be surprised at all if they are in fact, still mostly carbon-brushed permanent magnet DC motors, even potentially still using resistive speed control because simple and cost-effective trumps everything in the auto industry...
Excellent video! As someone who's had his EPA 609 for nearly 25 years now, even I enjoyed your manner of presentation and explanation!(Particularly relieved to see any video where the thermodynamics/maths all check out.) I may not directly work in the automotive (service) industry, but I do particularly value learning new things and keeping up top date on things. Subscribed and notify-all! Keep up the great work.
--Josh S.
The integration and packaging is very impressive. It will be interesting to see how reliable the system is over time. The solenoid valves and temp/pressure sensors can be points of failure, hopefully they have used quality components for this application. I do like that they have standardized on the solenoids and sensors
Agree, the system has so many connections, seals, and joints, the chances of failure increase
@@SanjeevSinha30 as the video says, other manufacturers have similar complexity but spread out with a lot more pipes. Having a single manifold reduces the failure points. It's a complicated system to design but it's probably easier to service. Relatively easy though, the single part heater is easier of course but a lot less efficient.
Thanks for watching
@@SanjeevSinha30 re: " Agree, the system has so many connections, seals, and joints, the chances of failure increase "
Compare that to a 'hosed' system, where every hose and crimp has to be perfect as well, versus a one or two-piece manifold?
Call me cynical, but I think the Tesla HVAC system is another reason why older Teslas will be scrapped prematurely, because of the cost of repairs.
The AC in older IC cars usually dies and it is uneconomic to fix it, but the heat still works so the car lives on. When your old Tesla's HVAC system dies, you will be left with no heat OR AC. And the only way to repair it will be through Tesla, at Tesla prices. That, along with the cost of a new hybrid battery and other components only available through Tesla, will cause owners to scrap their cars.
I wonder if these people will pony up for a new Tesla?@@SanjeevSinha30
I normally don’t comment on a lot of videos, but this is just excellent! The way this is presented is really above and beyond in clarity and detail. I really enjoyed watching this, thank you for creating this!
The whole time I was laughing, because I had no other way to hide how brilliant all this is. Thank you!
That is how I felt while researching the system. Thanks for watching
I find this to be the best ever video of all that I've watched in YT,that attempts to explain the Tesla heatpump system in a comprehensive yet, easy to understand manner. The bench setup definitely helps in improving the focus for better understanding.❤👍👍
I have been waiting for this video!
The additional heat sources (below 50F) for the heat pump system answered a question I’ve had regarding our 2022 Model 3. My spouse drives it every day to work (40 miles in each direction) and I have an app to monitor vehicle operations, including efficiency. The Model 3 is relatively unaffected by weather conditions compared to many other EVs, until the temperature gets low. I notice it more when the temperature is below 40F, the efficiency drops like a rock. It will get 4mi/kWh typically at 70F and maybe around 3.6-3.7mi/kWh at 50F, but it will drop to 2.8-3.0mi/kWh at 32F. It makes sense now why that is…the heat pump system is having to effectively “waste” energy to create heat for the cabin.
My Ioniq5 has a combination of heat pump heating and a PTC air heater. It uses the PTC heater to provide immediate heat on cold days, then transitions to the heat pump once it has a chance to gather some heat. It also is capable of gathering heat from the front/rear motors, the battery and the power electronics, but in a much less complex (and overall less effective) way. However, to the vehicle passengers, the system actually works better than the Tesla system. The vehicle receives heat much more quickly, especially on very cold days, and it is also way more effective at defogging the interior. It can run the PTC air heater for heat and the AC to dehumidify without having to sacrifice one or the other like the Tesla does. I’ve had several instances (especially after supercharging) where I’ve had to wait for several minutes for the interior glass to defog since the heat pump system is trying to heat the interior, dehumidify the interior and cool the battery all at the same time.
Interesting, I really haven't had those issues with mine. However, I don't supercharge too often. You'd think heating the cabin wouldn't be an issue since it's trying to reject all that heat from the battery anyway. Unless it can't spare even a tiny bit of cooling capacity for dehumidification... But bringing in cold OA and reheating in the winter should be plenty dry to defrost. That's been my experience. Unless your winter means hovering around freezing. Our average Jan/Feb highs are only in the low 20s. I get cabin heat almost immediately even after it sits outside all day. Faster than a gas car for sure. Although I usually "remote start" a couple minutes before I leave.
I've been supercharging in February at -15C and never experienced what the other guy is saying.
@@sylvaing1 You won't have it at those low temperatures as the air already is bone dry when heated from -15°C to +20°C. The issue is more likely to happen when the outside air is warm and moist but still cool enough to condense vapour on the windscreen. Then it needs to be cooled down and reheated. That's when the cooling capacity of the system gets to its limits, and it prioritises the battery, as that can actually be damaged from excessive heat, whereas the passengers and windscreen (of the stationary car) won't take damage from moist air.
Chevy Bolt defogs window in 20 seconds.
Great information, thanks for sharing!
Blown away by the subject and your awesome explanation. Zoned out daydreaming of the possibilities and implications and woke up to the thought of Professor Octo Kelly ! The man who can explain anything! Then I had to scroll back to see what I missed:(
Fantastic presentation! BTW I have to say, I am super happy with the operation noise of the heatpump in my Model Y. I used to drive a Renault Zoe which also had a heatpump, but that was extremely noisy at cold temperatures, to the point that it's as loud as an ICE vehicle...
Good point! Thanks for watching
As a refrigeration mechanic I see this as an absolutely fantastic piece of equipment, I'm retired now but we never saw this type of equipment outside of a laboratory, I can see this technology could work well in home heat recovery, this has been played with for many years but never got off the ground, Elton's boffins have finally done what we couldn't do, effectively, well done. Can I buy a super manifold?😊
Great video as always! Could you expand on how the motors are driven in an intentionally lossy manner? I’d love to see oscilloscope traces or something, comparing to normal operation.
Thank you! There may be many different ways, but a phase shift of the AC current versus the voltage would decrease the "Power Factor" and generate heat. See www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/power-quality/power-factor-formula
Just wait till you see the bill for the traction motor burn-out replacement when 7kw was pumped through it while stationary.
EV's are a joke.
@@xraylife Haters are gonna hate. This excellent system has been in production for three years now and I've not heard of this happening yet. If it does, there's an 8-year 100k-150k-mile (depending on model) warranty on the drive unit that will cover owners in the very unlikely event that this happens.
I was studying and comparing heat pumps for Home Applications and came across this brilliant composition. Thank you professor for amazing, simplified and brilliant explanation to tiny details. I was not able to stop video until it came to an end. Also thank you for putting everything together in one video and sharing. Have a wonderful day!
You're very welcome!
Mind-blowing detail (as usual professor) this summarizes all the thousand videos on the topic, with one precise and easy to understand video 👏
Thank you very much
Super impressed with this super manifold. But then, I didn’t expect any less from Tesla. The explanation was also amazing. Thank you. Tesla is the ONLY vehicle I would ever consider buying. There’s no alternative.
A part thats more complex than an internal combustion engine and cost the same to replace. Super stupid, let me rephrase that to GIGASTUPID!
@@webreakforsquirrel4201 Good point. The challenge now I suppose is how soon can they get the prices lowered, as this is an essential piece of the puzzle to achieve the necessary transformation.
John, Great job on the tutorial as always. You are a great professor! Your explanation of things and detail is very thorough. Weber should be ecstatic to have you on their staff.
Thank you very much!
You do an amazing job explaining the function of this car's heating/cooling heat pump system. Rube Goldberg would be proud of the engineering in a Tesla. Thanks!
Fascinating, Tesla should link to your video when they advertise the super manifold. Now i understand how it works!
Thank you very miuch!
Very good video. I am a retired electrical engineer and always learn something from your videos. I have to reach back into thermodynamics classes to follow the heat pump theory. Thanks for stepping through it logically. Thanks again for another fine video. All the best!
Thank you Brent
Is it safe to say, this is the most sophisticated temperature control system in a passenger vehicle? I have never really seen anything like this outside of aerospace vehicles. Obsessive attention to scavenging every joule of energy, in a compact package.
Yes.
Do planes have sophisticated heat recovery? Maybe if they start making electric planes one day. I imagine jet engines make way too much heat that it's mostly wasted. Like if you bled all the hot air off a jet engine, you would melt the passengers.
I'm desperately hoping for a residential mini split system that can shuffle heat around within a home like the octovalve can. They have it in commercial systems but we really need it done cheaply for residential too.
@@dacharyzoo Elon stated home use is in the future but for now many things ahead of that.
@@dacharyzoo yeah heat pumps are the future for home temperature management. I have a minisplit system as well as a heat recovery ventilation system in my house but having a fully integrated multi-mode system would be awesome.
Learned a lot! Thanks!
Thank you. It is much appreciated!
Professor Kelly, great to see you back and with a great engineering analysis of the heat pump on Tesla's!!!
Thank you!
I am about 20 minutes into this video, and I’m realizing if my EV does not have a PTC air heating system, I don’t want it 😅
However, this video is an incredible breakdown, and reading the comments lets me know that you are incredibly good at what you do. I wish there were more people like you 👍
Why on earth would you choose a PTC system when clearly the heat pump is the efficient and better route? Are you just trolling us?
@@Techridrfor fear of repair cost due to seemingly excessive overcomplication causing higher chance of failure. One repair out of warranty of the heat pump system could easily undo any money saved over ownership between heat pump and ptc systems.
@@farmerbond4210 These heat pumps are on the most popular car on the planet as well as other models of Tesla and I've yet to see it as a topic of issue. Your fears of technology might severely limit you. The heat pump and octovalve is a crucial part of the system and extremely well engineered. Using PTC is 3x less efficient, taking like 50% longer to heat the battery and cabin while using. Fearling this is like fearing body shop repairs because a tree might fall on your car. Pointless fear
Superb! I have been hoping to learn more about the Tesla heat pump and manifold design as I had thought I had designed a similarly efficient system for the Trellis Transit 4-passenger pods. Now I can clearly see nuances in Tesla’s design that are truly inspirational. Thank you so very much for sharing this video - sincerely appreciated!!
Thank you very much Steve
You know, when I listened to your excellent explanation of Tesla's heating/cooling systems, I felt pretty dumb relative to the engineers who developed it. However, I was smart enough to listen to and understand your talk. Thank you!
Thank you very much!
Excellent job John! That is an amazing vehicle!. You have a lot of work ahead of you teaching our kids!
Thanks 👍
I work in hvac, this was a fantastic video. Great breakdown, they aren’t wasting any available heat.
Thank you Joseph
Well, I always believed that this should be the way how heat management be like - collect energies wherever it is too much, and send them to wherever it is needed. Feels great to see that tesla already did it. Hope that more EV cars will do the same way. Btw, great demonstration with every details covered, Thanks!
Thank you very much
Many thanks Professor for this superb explanation! It's indeed an excellent system from Tesla, but as complex as it is your way of laying it out plain and simple makes it easy to understand. Please keep doing these fantastic videos, because I have been learning a lot with you!
6:10 That GM design did most everything you are talking about today, but 25 years ago. It scavenged heat from the electric motor and power electronics, even the charge port! Of course, the lead-acid batteries used then did not need thermal conditioning so they were not part of the system, but otherwise it was a very advanced HVAC design.
Finally someone in the comments that doesn’t wear Tesla blinders.
@@akshonclip but where is this fabulous GM engineering now?
@@bartwaggoner2000 Ford had all of this laid out before Tesla was even a thing.
@@akshonclip So why was Ford not able to put this system into millions of electric cars? It doesn't matter who first put such a system together, the important part is getting it out the door and converting it to sales.
@@HenryLoenwind Henry Ford did all the hard work in making mass produced vehicles cost effective, now every manufacturer reaps the benefits. Tesla is now doing a lot of the hard work in problem solving and engineering EV challenges and doing it cost effective for mass production, and every other manufacturer including now Ford, will reap the rewards in the same way they did from Henry Ford all those years ago. Ford, GM and others couldn't produce this level of complexity cost effective for mass production but they knew how to do it.
Professor is awesome! He’s absolutely correct. As a multi-BEVowner, cabin heat and/or resistive seat heat WILL dramatically reduce your range on an electric car, sometimes to the tune of 50% depending on outside air temp. Typically, a cold day below 30 degrees F will reduce your range 20-30% no matter what you do, even if you pre-heat cabin while on the grid.
Tesla is well known for their modular design. You’ve pointed that out several times. Such as how the inverters fit different motor sub-models. Taking cost out of the equation, would it be possible to retro-fit a resistive heating system with a heat pump assuming you could source the necessary parts?
anything is possible ... but it will cost you dearly, because none of the parts are the same. It was completely redesigned. If you replace all of it you still have to deal with the software ... and Tesla may not want to change the software on your old VIN car.
I guess it would be possible. It would require a lot of custom controls.
@@Poxenium I won’t go into a ton of detail, but I know from personal experience that the software stack (at install time) looks for hardware modules present and applies the software and config appropriate for the hardware which is present. While this process might be far too much change to work in a similar manner I have a 2019 M3 with a 2023 M3 module installed. The car blasts errors about the different hardware at first, but after a software reinstall it happily accepts the new module. Again, I’m not brave enough to do a heating system retrofit. I’m only saying the software seems it could be as modular as the hardware.
@@Skarkroe IMO it's easier and cheaper to sell/trade in the car and get a new one. It'll have the Ryzen CPU and other newer stuff ... maybe wait a few months for Autopilot HW 4.0.
@@Poxenium Entirely depends on what you’re after. I wanted CCS charging before Tesla was making it available. I bought the part directly from Tesla and it cost me $130 and about 45min to upgrade it myself.
42 years as a auto tech this is incredible stuff. Engineering at it's best... Wow 😮
Agreed! Thanks for watching
@@WeberAuto thank you 👍
@@WeberAuto thanks for your post if I where young I would young you would give me All I need
Thanks for the subtitles! Great content. Hugs from Brazil.
You are welcome!
Very interesting video, great breakdown of how it all works. It’s really quite impressive how the Tesla engineers managed to draw heat from every possible heat source in the car.
Thx for sharing your knowledge
Thank you. It is an incredible system
So much effort to keep passengers and battery warm with less energy 😊 also professor, good Effort to keep us educated
And it fails in cold climates with no fix for months. Good ol Tesla trash.
Thank you very much