One of his Sandman stories was about an author who traps a muse in his attic and assaults her for years while being lauded in public as a feminist author. These allegations really put that story into a different and horrifying context!
Yes. In the story the writer kidnaps and rapes calliope, one of the most famous muses in Greek mythology. All the while playing the good guy, while keeping a piece of beauty as a sex slave. This struck me. Very repulsive and reprehensible.
The tv show made it obvious that the character was based off of himself: one time during a lecture the author shouted “ahhhhh new idea: a werewolf bites a couch and a goldfish!!”, a direct quote from a Gaiman interview. Makes me wonder now, what other evil self-inserts have the authors saying the quiet parts out loud…
YES, I immediately had this in mind too when I read the article. It was really unconformable to read in the comic book but now it seems even more disturbing. It was really graphic and drawn in a way... Like feedind in the pain of the woman. I wasnt able to continue my reading, despite my love for the character of Dream.
There’s this guy, but the one that really killed me is Alice Munro knowing her husband was raping her daughter for years and then choosing the husband over the daughter. I’ll never be able to read her books again. The literary world was shook.
@@rebeccalefler4506was just going to post exactly the same comment... I did exactly the same thing... But I do find it weird that I knew someone who also threw J.K.Rowling books away just because she had a different opinion. When you have nasty pieces of work like Gaiman... And monsters like Bradley.
I agree so much. While the media uses increasingly complicated language to avoid potential lawsuits, it's up to people who appreciate literature and therefore the power of the language to call a spade a spade.
I agree! I am not sure what change we are making by just no addressing something by it's actual word?!! Like the comment below, let's go back to calling a spade a spade.
@@angiethebookaholic I would delve to much into socio-political and Black Rock elitist agendas if I wanted to explore why they might be doing these semantical ideas, much like calling a vagina a bonus hole, so I will refrain from giving you my opinion on that. Satire!
Now turn your rage toward the capitalist structures that even insensitive this Or continue to see esoteric corporate double speak until the end of time
I'm real big about "gotta separate the art from the artist." HOWEVER! I did take those Sandman hardcovers off my shelf where the camera is on them every video. What a creep.
This is about Neil Gaiman. Ta-Nehisi Coates’ BETWEEN THE WORLD AND ME is a great book. Insightful, beautifully written, profound. Coates modeled his book on James Baldwin’s THE FIRE NEXT TIME. We know this because Coates was open and up-front about this fact. George R.R. Martin’s GAME OF THRONES/A Song of Ice and Fire is a great series. Martin modeled his books on a series by a French author named Maurice Druon. We know this because Martin was open and up-front about this fact. Viet Thanh Nguyen’s THE SYMPATHIZER is a great book. He modeled it on a book written in Vietnamese, whose title escapes me. We know this because Nguyen was open and up-front about this fact. Neil Gaiman’s THE SANDMAN is a great comic book series. Gaiman modeled his series on Tanith Lee’s TALES FROM THE FLAT EARTH. But you wouldn’t know this, because Gaiman has never given her any credit. Despite the fact that the main character - a byronic, pale, otherworldly, deity-like character - is the prince of night and dreams. Despite the fact that every time people see art depicting Tanith Lee’s main character Azhrarn, they think it’s Morpheus from the Sandman. (How bad is this? When people see depictions of her character, they say SHE must have ripped HIM off.) Despite the fact that the dream lord’s younger sibling is Death. Despite the fact that other members of his family include Delusion, Delirium…. They are not gods but beings older than gods, and when the gods die, Dream, Death, Delusion, and Delirium will remain. This family of immortal, eternal, unchanging beings, who each embody an eternal abstraction starting with the letter D. Someone else on the internet, noticing the similarities, flipped open the third book in Tanith Lee’s series to a random page, and lo and behold, there’s a description of a character who was clearly the inspiration for Gaiman’s Mazikeen. The prose, the characters, the narrative strategies, the mythology, the story structure, all of it: Gaiman found it all in Tanith Lee‘s writing and never gave her any credit. He became rich and famous profiting from her ideas. People effused over his amazing imagination, when the ideas they praised him for were actually created by Tanith Lee. And, while he was building his name and fame, she was struggling. In the 1990s, toward the end of her life, she complained in an interview that magazines weren’t buying her stories anymore. A simple “If you like The Sandman, you should really read Tanith Lee’s books!” from Neil Gaiman would have meant so much to her career. To the livelihood of a struggling, less-privileged writer, whose amazing imagination Gaiman was actively ripping off. People praised The Sandman comics for their depiction of gay and trans identities. But in the original material, Tanith Lee was far more progressive about lgbtq+ identities, and that was twenty years earlier. I first read Tanith Lee’s book NIGHT’S MASTER (the first in the FLAT EARTH series) in maybe 2005, about 10 years after first reading The Sandman. I looked to see if Gaiman had credited her for “his” ideas; as far as I could tell, he never had. And for the subsequent 19 years, whenever I see a new Neil Gaiman interview, the first thing I do is ctrl-F to search to see if he mentioned Tanith Lee. And he never has, that I’ve seen. I have no difficulty believing the accusations against him. Because I know - KNOW - that he has felt entitled to take what he wants from a woman, without her permission, and without any acknowledgement of her contributions. And, finally: If you loved Neil Gaiman’s stories, if you are heartbroken to learn the storyteller you loved is apparently an abuser, here is my suggestion: track down Tanith Lee’s TALES FROM THE FLAT EARTH books. Her prose is more exquisite and imaginative, her ideas more original, her empathy real. Edited to add: the illustration is by an artist who goes by Azhrarn on DeviantArt, depicting Tanith Lee’s Azhrarn. Edited again: A lot of people are buying Lee’s book THE EARTH IS FLAT. This is the wrong place to begin; it’s a collection of posthumously published stories set in the same world as the series. The place to begin would either be NIGHT’S MASTER or the omnibus edition of the first three books, LORDS OF DARKNESS.
I wish I could do that, but just seeing the name instantly reminds me of the actions and behaviours so Gaiman is off the shelves and out of my library. Which really sucks, because I loved Sandman.
And even this statement has its limits. It makes sense for something like political disagreements but this was straight up criminal behavior, it's impossible to not see an artist differently after that
My condolences about loosing Gaiman. If you like Gaiman, you'll love Terry Pratchet. His work is always thought-provoking and endlessly hilarious. On top of that, he was a true gentleman who was taken from us too early. I found his books life changing. I hope they bring some solace to you.
Gaiman was good friends with Pratchett, Stephen King, Tori Amos. I'm not saying they knew this stuff. I'm saying, he managed to pull the wool over a lot of people's eyes, people who were much closer than his fans. I can't imagine what King and Amos are feeling about this.
Been there, done that, with my former favorite manga author, the creator of Rurouni Kenshin. Some advice that worked for me - Take the books off your shelf, put them in a box, and hide the box somewhere it won't be in the way. Wait a year or so. Find comfort rereading your second or third favorite authors. Can they be your new #1 favorite now? Or are they still only your second or third favorite? Is it time to begin the search for a new favorite author entirely? If so, lean into that excitement, that there is a new favorite author out there just waiting for you to discover them! After that year (or however long you need) has passed and you have been exploring other authors, dig out the box you put away. Do you think you can engage with the author's work again? If so, try and see how you feel now. Is there enough distance that you can still enjoy any of those books? If so, determine to what extent. If not, do you think you can finally let go of the books? And remember if you do change your mind after letting them go, used copies exist. Navigating your way through something like this is deeply personal and different for everyone. Only time and distance from engaging with his works will begin to heal the feelings of betrayal. But it's ok, every reader faces something like this at some point. You're not alone.
Same. I was so heartbroken. Kenshin as a story and character has so many good teachings to teach us that all of that has now been stained. I still love the material because it contains none of what Watsuki was arrested for. I love the anime and live action. Though the live action is more the property of Director Keishi Otomo rather than the author. Otomo and Takeru Satoh (actor who plays Kenshin) were both disappointed and heartbroken because they really fought to have the live action and sequels made. Otomo was horrified and spoke against Watsuki since he himself has young daughters. I refuse to buy the new Hokkaido arc or any more new manga Watsuki publishes. I still have my old manga that I keep away. I just can't look at them.
I found my people. It sucked SO bad when I saw the news about how insanely disgusting the mangaka was. Rurouni Kenshin and his other works were my favorite and collected figs, the entire manga collection, media stuff all for me to just pack it away and never support the author again. But hey One Piece will keep me going for a lifetime.
"seperate the art from the artist" is next to impossible for living artists because everytime you consume their art, everytime you talk about it online, the artist *will* benefit from it. the only attempt that could probably succeed at it is piracy.
As much as I would try to separate the art from artist, in the back of my mind would be the nagging thought itching away until eventually I don't bother with the art anymore.
@Face2East same here. the only times i can't do this, is when the art is deeply ingrained into a part of my life, especially anything regarding childhood memories, and i simply cannot abandon my love for it. but anything i have no personal connections to is pretty easy to drop and move on to something else
Piracy is not the answer. That way you still hurt the publishers and retailers the most, as most of sales profits go to them. Buying second hand and libraries is the ethical way to go about it.
I have a friend who used to be a HUGE Gaiman fan. She's read everything by him and has been recommending his works to me for years. She was shaken after this article came out. It is truly so scary that the people who seem to be the nicest and most thoughtful are the biggest monsters behind closed doors.
I don’t think Neil was ever nice. I saw him speak years ago, and it didn’t change how much I loved his writing, but he came across as a bit of an asshole. But never in a million years would I have guessed he was an abuser.
How about don't idolise people in the first place? I don't get hero worship at all, never have. There are artists who's work I enjoy but I have never idolised any of them.
This is why i never had "heros" or favorite authors. I dont seek out interviews or even care about who wrote the books i enjoy, i just enjoy the story and move on. The truth is almost everyone has things in their closet they keep hidden and you never know who they are. Everyone is flawed, some more than others. Usually the the ones who claim self righteousness are the worst of all.
@IchibanOjousama you're welcome to think so, but I'm not the one devastated that an author I admired, seeked out, and got an autograph of turned out to be a reprobate. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It is with experience that im saying that being in a "Fandom" is the worst thing you can do to the art youre enjoying. Coz fans are blind to flaws of the art, and i find some art of "bad" people to be so great but it sends me in a dilemma many times. Everyone is so much more complex than just good or evil, so just dont idiolize a real human
Exactly the same here. There are some creators (authors, musicians, etc) that I might enjoy more than others, ones that hit a spot that no one else I enjoy can hit the same way, but *no one* gets put on a pedestal. I also tend to skip interviews and articles, because I want to keep my enjoyment and appreciation of a creator in a very specific and limited context. I don't need to pretend to know these people, or pretend to be invested in their personal lives or their claimed beliefs, I just need to enjoy their creations for what they are and move on.
It's hard to draw an exact line, but I can't really get on board with the idea of separating the art from the artist in a situation like this. It's one thing if someone is just a bit unpleasant or something, but it's entirely another if they are a serial rapist.
It makes no difference if they tortured, mutilated and murdered ten trillion people in the most horrific ways imaginable, that has no relation to other aspects of their lives or work they made, people aren't things they do they're people. If Hitler paints a painting him killing millions later has nothing to do with the painting in the slightest. Secular leftists have this weird religious idea of "bad people" (despite not believing in morality) where instead of actions being bad if you've done anything wrong it somehow makes you bad as a person and infects anything else you've done even if it's unrelated, at least religious people let you repent and move on yet the most puritan don't even believe in meaning. They're already saying they can't adapt his shows anymore it's insane, all people are capable of doing all things good or bad if someone does something wrong it's what they did that's wrong and not the person, this need to cut off any association with them or anything they did is some sort of weird parasocial purity testing.
i completely agree with you, separating art from the artist works in cases where their political opinions differ from yours or they're dead, but continuing to support an abusive rapist isn't the best look. for example, charles dickens was a horrible weirdo who had a lot of racist bullshit to say about my people but i can separate the man from his art because my reading his works/buying his books won't benefit him anymore because he's been dead for like centuries now
As the father of a victim (of a different predator), my heart goes out to the victims and their families. And it's one thing to appreciate the stories - it's another to contribute to him financially in some way.
I am a Terry Pratchett fan, not a Gaiman one. I am absolutely heart broken about Good Omens. All I can say is that my friend Terry would be SO angry with him. And when multiple women tell the same story you have to believe them.
Ooih Really. So if a "few" women tell a story... it's always 100% truth? All the details are present immediately...Also you believe the majority is always right, because they are all knowing.... 😂 .... Right?!
Sir Terry couldn't possibly have known, at worst he might have missed some signs, his *whole thing* was that "evil begins when you start treating people as things" and he would never have condoned this 😭 I also never cared as much about Gaiman as I do about Pratchett. I hate that they ever had any proximity to each other 😭
Thank you for saying this. I am a huge Pratchett fan, and was a Gaiman fan...I feel sure that sir Pratchett would absolutely not have condoned this, and I feel so sorry for people like Rhianna, Lynn and Rob Wilkins (as I am for Tori Amos) who probably have been knowing Gaiman for years, have had good relationships with him, maybe felt him like a friend or a kind uncle, and now they are faced with this awful truth. If I feel anger and betrayal from a parasocial knowledge, I don't know what they are feeling...and I like to imagine that if sir Pratchett was still alive he would be kicking him while probably telling him a thing or two... unfortunately, I've started reading some comments of people saying that maybe sir Pratchett was just as bad...and I want to cry...
I'm in the exact same boat as having been the biggest Neil Gaiman fan since my teens when he really got me back into fantasy 😞 I was sick to my stomach after reading that article on Vulture on Monday and I just find it so beyond deeply upsetting that such a monster could have been hiding behind such beautiful words. Those poor women. I hope they're able to find some peace now that they've been able to share their stories.
Unfortunately, this is becoming such a pattern, I'm wondering if I can be a fan of anyone anymore while having to wonder who they really are behind the scenes. :/
It's always been like this. Sadly the most interesting art has to delve in to the darkest places. Smart phone culture means almost every minute of an artists day is documented. But if you dug into artists all the way bad to Shakespeare's time you are guaranteed to find some disturbing stuff, I'm sure.
@@danielbroome5690in general, true. In comics, not necessarily. I had 4 top tier comic writers: Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Warren Ellis, and Junji Ito. 2 of 4 have had bad accusations against them (Ellis not nearly as bad as Gaiman, but still carelessness and disrespect at least). If anything came out about Moore or Ito, it would legitimately change how I view the medium at this point.
You will hear folks say ‘separate the art from the artist.’ Perhaps instead of that: explore other authors! There are way too many books out there to care about his stuff if it eats on your conscience.
@@MetalGildarts ONE problem of this approach is, that if you continue to spend money on whatever product- book, music, movie - then you are putting money in the pocket of someone whom you supposedly despise.
@@Julian-bq9qv Second hand bookstores great. If there arent any of those near you then there are... (Puts on eyepatch) other ways... to ethically consume art without financially supporting the author.
@sernoddicusthegallant6986 This. It's possible for bad people to make good art. It's okay to enjoy his art. But I understand not wanting to support him - I agree - sooooo alternative methods of procuring his books is ideal!
I believe the article mentioned that the victims were under investigation - they were checking their conversations from that time with the pig himself, friends, family etc. they also looked at the patterns in their stories. So I think at this point it’s safe to say he is guilty. When there is more than one victim, we should always pay more attention. Also I don’t believe someone would want to say this to the world if it wasn’t true, given how often we see victim blaming. In my country, someone would be immediately like - “why she took the bath, it was obvious he wanted to sleep with her, she could just leave etc.”. I find those victims incredibly brave. My heart broke.
"Also I don’t believe someone would want to say this to the world if it wasn’t true, given how often we see victim blaming" There was a whole documentary around accusing Marilyn Manson that turned out false. Underestimating the shamelessness of people is not a good way too establish creditability.
People aren’t monsters, to call them that ignores the fact that these cases are a lot more common than we would like to think (assuming that these allegations are true). People can do terrible things, they can also do wonderful things. Some people can do both, which is confusing. Don’t have heroes, they will let you down. Admire people’s work, be careful of admiring them too much.
THIS. All of this. Every human being is capable of both good and evil - it's arguable that what's more important is to acknowledge what they've done is wrong, hold them accountable and make sure it doesn't happen again. (Although I'm not really a Neil Gaiman fan, so I suppose it's not as simple for others.)
@ I am a NG fan, or rather a fan of his work, especially because I am a fan of Terry Pratchett. I also like some of Wagner’s work, and when I was little I liked to read Enid Blyton and Tintin. Nowadays there are a lot of works that I took pleasure in, where the person who produced it is “problematic”. It doesn’t cause me a problem, though I find issue with the person, I admire the work.
Your first sentence is unpersuasive. Let's grant that such cases are more common than we think. What follows is not that they aren't monsters, but that there are a lot more monsters in the world than we'd like to admit.
You're missing a very obvious point. When he wrote those books that you deem ''wonderful'', he was telling on himself. This is what sociopaths do. Sociopaths get satisfaction from indirectly telling the people who they really are and ''duping'' people. Some people out there are really not good.
He was one of my favourites as well... He is a genius but he is also a horrible horrible human being who has abused the power he has. Its sad but I don't think I'll ever be able to enjoy his work anymore.
I loved Bill Cosby’s comedy for years. The allegations and convictions tainted that product and his memory. Neil Gaiman hasn’t been my favorite author, but this is still a horrifying circumstance and loss.
@@rachelmilne6603 yeah .... Bill was one of my favorite comedians back in the day. I loved his Noah's Ark bit. Was shocked when the truth about him came out.
As a woman: THANK YOU. Men like you that understand how deeply hurtful is a S A, mean the world to us. It was so normalized and kinda hidden during so many years, that many men still refuse to believe how sadly common it is.
Not those of us who've also experienced it. And I suspect that many who deny how common it is, are actually trying to hide that they were victims, too. Please don't take that as an attempt to introduce any sort of false equivalence about power in society, or dismiss the frequency and weight of male on female SA. Rather, I'm saying that the "men are never victims, men can never be vulnerable, cowboys don't cry" narrative is incredibly harmful for everyone, men and women. Apart from anything else, someone who is so closed to the idea of acknowledging their trauma, even to themselves, tends to end up dishing out trauma to others.
The ex Zimmer Bradley's fans know this road well Edit: i would like to direct everyone to Stephen lawheads pendragon cycle as its way better, way better written and researched. Authorian lore, and the author isnt a pos!
I learned about it just as I had finished "The Mists of Avalon".My friend took it way harder and donated her books to our uni library. The issue isn't just that she was a pos, it's that the themes she was writing her works about contradicted everything she ended up doing in real life. That's the issue with Gaiman for me, that's why I don't actually care if he is legally guilty. In any case, his behavior is unacceptable for someone whom I appreciated not only for his prose, but his ideas.
I was so ready to read "The Mists of Avalon," and that information was revealed before I ever checked the book out of the library. Now I just can't bring myself to read it.
Neil Gaiman's response to one of the accusations gave away his guiltiness. (What follows isnt graphic, but still deeply disturbing and uncomfortable, so warning) There was a woman he hired as a babysitter, maid or something who accused him of assaulting her in the shower only hours after first meeting him. His response was that they only made out and cuddled!?!?! So he admits that he intruded on an employee while she was bathing, only hours after meeting her, and started doing stuff with her!? Clearly guilty
it's hard for me to "separate the art from the artist" when their real life sins bleed into their art. it's not like he is making art that has nothing to do with the terrible things he's been accused of, because then one can argue that he made his art inside a vacuum or something along those lines. this man wrote a short story about how young women are forever sexualized by society. i personally find it difficult to apply "separating the art from the artist" in the case of this writer.
True. Im normally big on separating art from the artist (as long as youre buying second hand or by other ways that dont financially support them), but one scenario when I can never look past the artist is when their actions render the central messages of their art hypocritical. I feel the same way about a lot of Joss Whedon's feminist themed works knowing that he was treating the women under him like dirt while making them or Mcafferty's music which was built around his raw emotional honesty but then he got exposed for being a completely manipulative narcissist.
When one is in such a power-imbalance situation there cannot be true consent. It is clouded by the need for a roof overhead., the need to please the source of one's survival No one who has not experienced this type of relationship -- especially as a boss-employee -- can understand the extent it warps our behavior and outlook of the situation while one is inside of it, the extent of people pleasing that takes place to placate the abuser, the excuses made for their abuse. Here it is made even worse for his BDSM excess and persistent predator behavior, all wrapped up in "of course she wanted me" mindset, the mindset of a true self-unaware abuser. I loved Gaiman's work. But he is completely blind to what it is to be without power. He is blind to being the monster. He turns my stomach now, and I'm sad it has polluted his work in my eyes. We have all sinned. But this is grievous and even abhorrent, and I will never buy another of his books.
late 80's early 90's I was part of a crew that ran a room at sci-fi conventions. One of the girls in our crew was seriously creeped out by him, that is when we noticed he was behaving like a complete and utter letch. Never thought it would lead to this. I feel sorry for people who worked with him that might get tainted but were not like that at all. People like Fox, Mary Gentle and PTerry. It is a shame because he has some wonderful ideas in his stories, whimsical almost, I mean for me there will always be an Angel in Islington that looks like an incarnation of Dr Who.
@@charlottesmith3229thank goodness he never lived to see this day. I’m sad the world lost Terry Pratchett, but I’m glad he never had to deal with this reality.
Also as a UK Kid who grew up in the 70's teens in the 80's and 20's in the 90's, this is getting tired, so many, lets not call them hero's, more creatives I admired and work I enjoyed, turning out to be monsters of one way shape and form. I can't even bring myself to ask "First Time?" now.
If you love Neil Gaiman's prose, Tanith Lee is an author that he allegedly plagiarized for The Sandman (specifically from her Tales of the Flat Earth series). Her work predates his and her prose is evocative and masterful. Reading book 1 of Lee's series, you'll see a lot of eerie similarities between her work and Gaiman's. Not to mention, she allegedly expressed sentiments of distrust and dislike toward Gaiman. If you have any thoughts on her work, I'd love to hear them. Also, may the women who Gaiman hurt and abused find justice, and may it be swift.
Even if he, legally speaking, is innocent, it's still bespoke of a truly shit person. Even if conesnt was given, it's still dubious, when the power difference between the two people is so large, especially if one depends on the other for a living. Not to mention, how creepy it is for a 60 year old man to come onto an 18 old girl. With or without consent. There simply is no defending these actions. As for his works, I think as usual, to each their own is the best policy. Cutting ties with him, if his actions are too much for you is to be applauded, but it's also possible to rake the objectivley poitive messages from his works, and use them for yourselves. It's okay to stop reading Gaiman, and it's also okay to keep reading Gaiman. The important thing is to not ignore the victims, and choose our actions with awareness. And of course to be kind to eachother. He might be a shit human, but reading his works won't suddenly make people any worse.
The only Neil Gailman story I'm familiar with is the Coraline movie, but I consider Henry Selic now the sole creator, since it does stray from it's source material.
Separating the art from the artist is probably easy for some since they're not his victim. I can't imagine how horrible in must be if your abuser is famous or popular and hear them being praised for their work or see their name on bookshelves in shops.
Thank you for centering the true victims even while acknowledging how it can be difficult for readers/fans who are now feeling sick to their stomachs. I’m with you-art cannot be separated from the artist when promoting, buying, and otherwise positively engaging with that art directly increases the power that the monstrous artist uses to victimize more people (and yes, financial power was a huge influence in many of the stories his victims came forward with).
Being a good writer and being a good person are two different things. In our culture, we exalt these people who happen to be actors, sports figures, models, authors, etc for no real reason other than their jobs. You don't know them as a person only from their work. I've always thought this was such an odd thing to do. This is why actors who are known for a certain character, like say a 🧛♂️ will be often asked in public to bite their fan. 😏 Yeah, vampires are not real. 🤨 And has Covid taught us nothing?! 😂
I saw a video this morning about how some of his works were actually pretty telling. The confinement and rape of the muse Calliope in The Sandman series is beyond gross on it's own but now with what we know... wow.
I listened to his writing lectures, his interviews, his graduation speech. I made my senior thesis off this man's writing. I once dreamed I could collaborare with him to take his Lovecraftian Sherlock story and make it into some kind of serial franchise, like what he'd done with Lucifer. I'd also heard whispers that he let students and amateurs use his shortfiction on the cheap for their projects and had a piece picked out from Smoke and Mirrors to become a one-act play. I'm glad those dreams weren't to be. The actions he's admitted to are already to far for me to collaborate without some caustic mix of distance and desperation. Using your fans the way he's confessed to is about as likely to go well as I am to make an edible fruitcake. And the acts he's alleged to have done put him on the pedestal of worst-behaving authors I have ever known. My only comfort is that his stories don't have to belong to him. Fiction is one of those things I believe should belong to the public - at least past the short-term - and prose fiction is the sphere of fiction closest to that dream. I don't need his permission to tell a tale of Watson in the Nameless City or of Holmes drowning nightmares of Cthulhu with a sampling of Opium. His own creations - his Death, his Dream, his Wednesday and his Coraline - may be his until he dies. But Death, Odin, Dream and Riding Hood are beyond the grasp of monsters like him. If only all stories were free from their monsters before they were forgotten.
Separating the art from the artist is perfectly fine... with caveats. 1. The artist in question is just horrible or unpleasant in person but not an actual criminal, especially of that nature. 2. Any art people owned prior to the accusations (and apparent guilt?) is free of any "taint" IMO. Any new art, on the other hand, is untouchable.
The separate the art from the artist thing should always come with the caveat: If you can. And either way, it is a personal thing. No one should be looking at and judging others for how they handle this. I tend to be able to separate them, but not always. And that inconsistency is also valid, because it is mine. I haven't begun to process how his work will fall for me - I am so disheartened right now, and so disgusted with him. My heart goes out to those women.
Interesting post from JK Rowling. The only reason I can think of as to why a "muted" reaction from the literary crowd is that, at least in the good ol' US of A, is that we're all exhausted from being outraged. Outrage has almost been a constant. So to see this story on Gaiman, maybe people just shake their heads sadly and quietly clean out their shelves... I don't know, just a guess
Exhausted by outrage is exactly how I feel. Of all the creatives who have been exposed as terrible people, Gaiman’s exposure was the most impactful for me. Something died in me when I read the first headline and I don’t think it will recover.
I agree, Weinstein was the start of the 'Me Too' movement proper, so he got our outrage at full energy, at this point we are all just exhausted and desensitised to the horrific things people we thought were good have done. There isn't a lot of outrage over anyone doing horrible things any more, it is just kind of expected... which is terrible.
@@eternal_napalm6442 She's not exactly one to talk, though being a TERF and all (and plenty problematic even without that, though it took most people years to notice). At the very least she's heavily contributed to the outrage exhaustion herself, and at worst... Well see the TERF bit. But none of this erases how horrible this situation is, especially for the victims.
Appreciate you being able to be open and honest about this topic. It's not something anyone ever wants to discuss, but for the reasons you brought up, it's an unfortunate necessity. While we may not always agree as a community on many things, I would hope we can all agree that behavior like this is not acceptable. And no matter how genius and creative you are, it does not make up for behaving like a monster. I strongly believe in the power of redemption, but at the same time, it's incredibly difficult to come back from something like this. In my mind, there is no greater evil than destorying the life of another, whether that's physically or mentally. I hope the women--and ALL who've suffered similar experiences--find some way to heal moving forward.
I loved his work. In all honesty I don’t think I will read any of the TBR books I had of him. I will give them to charity. There’s plenty of other authors out there with amazing stories that are just as insightful. Sad times indeed 😢
Will you give them to charity so that the rape fairies will come to threaten and terrify others?? Shame on you!! You can’t just put the juju from an ouija board back into the ouija board from where it came!! Haven’t you ever seen “Poltergeist” and “The Video Dead”??!!
Gaiman isn't the first author to exhibit problematic behavior and he will undoubtedly not be the last; it is up to the individual reader/consumer to decide whether the artist's work is worth engaging with despite the troubling origin. Carroll & Alice in Wonderland immediately comes to mind with regards to separating the source from the creative result.
If you dig deep into personal lives of famous artists, you will find a lot of darkness. Dostoevsky was a horrible person, addicted, gambler, antisemitic, all sorts of disgusting sins. Lovecraft was a hardcore racist. Christopher Marlowe was a murderer and traitor. The list can be continued. If Neil Gaiman is guilty of what he is accused off, does this changed the fact that he wrote some great books? If we collect those books and burn them all, will it bring justice to his alleged victims? I don't know. Right now it's a fresh wound, so everyone is emotional. But you can't escape the fact, that the books are great. They WILL remain even when their author will be long-dead. For me it's a familiar topic, as I was born in the USSR and was raised while listening to the lot of Soviet/Russian rock bands and musicians, some of which are now working for the Putin's propaganda, supporting the war and mass-murder. It's disgusting, and as of now, those bands and musicians don't exist for me anymore. But I still listen to the songs that I've been listening when I was 18. I think we need to serve justice to the person, not the art. But it will take time to comprehend I guess.
Cool it with Dostoevsky. Nothing he did is comparable to what Gaiman is accused of.Lovecraft was a mentally ill recluse who spent all his life in a house terrified of the outside world. He actually harmed nobody. Marlowe lived 400 years ago, not something one really connects emotionally or even mentally with. Better compare him to Marion Zimmer Bradley. Would you let a child abuser, SAer and supporter of pdffiles tell you about feminism? If you would, good for you, but not all situations were created equal. And this from someone who was a lifelong Gaiman fan, and supports people dealing with his relationship with his works however they see fit. If he is innocent, then good for him. Hope he sues. But from his lifestyle and priorities alone this is a person I can't respect, and that I respected his mind was a huge part of the appeal of his books for me.
@@kostantza1 As I said, I'm living in this hell of forcefully judging people who's art I used to love or even my former friends for three years now, since the start of the full scale war in Ukraine. Do you know how it feels when you childhood friend, or an musician who was your idol throughout all of your childhood is turned out to be a Putin's fascist, who openly call to kill as many Ukrainians as possible? And on the other hand, my other friends and even relatives are getting bombed and killed in Ukrain by the peopIe, who I used to trust and love. I understand your anger and pain about this Gaiman situation, but for me now it seem so far away... So maybe you will forgive me my probably inappropriately light judgement.
@@nikhein I don't have to forgive you anything. You are entitled to your feelings. I don't even know how I'll deal with the works I've let shape me and led me into one of my life's love and hobbies.I'm sorry for what you're going through - hope you and your family are ok, and this war ends soon in your favour. Don't think I've not also gotten infinitely disappointed in the last few years, once it became clear how many people I admired were either completely immoral, pathetic, or just dumb, though I don't purport to compare what you feel to that. Someone said somewhere else that he wrote what he wrote, but how you took and shaped his work inside you is all you. Maybe this attitude will help.If it came across as me condemning people still reading him, it wasn't my intention at all. I was just pointing out some practical differences. Dead authors are much, much better after all. You know what you get from the beginning.
@@kostantza1 We're safe, thank you. I'm living in a nice small European country, which was lucky enough to get totally rid of the Soviet legacy after the monster died. But I still have connections both in Russia and Ukraine, and that's... Insanely hard. Sometimes I think about how my life could have turned and whom I would have become if I wasn't born and live all my life in Estonia, but in Russia... And honestly, I have no idea. And that's scary. As for the artists and writers and connection between their personalities and legacy... You right, of course, about it being easier with those long dead. That's why I treat every such case (well, if proven of course. You can't be sure of anything these days) as them being dead already. That's just my way to deal with this dilemma. The person dies, the books, art, movies (oh those movie directors! so many evil geniuses among them) stays. But that's just my way.
@@nikhein Hey, it's just as valid a way as any.If we didn't read problematic people's work, our libraries would be much smaller after all, and in the end, as long as they help even one person, their works are the good part of them that remains. I'll have to see how I'll deal with something that was so personal to me - I'd drifted away because I felt him becoming faker and faker, but that wouldn't make me rethink his older works the way I inevitably now will. Oh well. In other news, I very much want to visit Estonia - it's a very beautiful country. Hope your family in both sides is safe, and this new years is better than the one before :)
I hear you. I've been a fan of his for near 30 years and I too got to see him speak. But these last few months, and especially the last two days have made him a repulsive figure in my eyes. Sigh...but there are other writers/creatives out there. As for any NG books I had, well, they've pretty much all gone to the local charity shops.
@@EmlynBoyle I might end up chucking mine. I probably will keep my signed copy of stardust because it was a gift from a friend and my illustrated Good Omens to support the presumably completely innocent illustrator (plus Terry Prachett), but I'm close to binning the rest next time I clean out my closet.
@@ChanyeolsHaneul Separate the art from the artist. He might be a bad man, but he has written good books, and I see no reason why you should miss out on them because the author is a bad person.
@TheMagicSkelli I never had an interest in his books. The only time is easy to separate art from artist is when the writer is already death for a very long time, like at least 20 years before I born. If I disagree with the opinion of a living writer I may still read their books but if they are criminals I lose all desires to do so.
@TheMagicSkelli Keep in mind some of the depravity has leaked into his work. The constant rape of a character in Sandman in order inspire creativity is a little close for comfort
I do not consider myself a Gaiman fan, as I have only read 2 of his books: American Gods (which I hated) and Ocean at the End of the Lane (which I loved), so my thoughts on him as an author were literally 50/50. I was planning on reading more of his work, however I will not be doing so now. I do want to say however, that the "regular" book people in the literary community have been far from silent. Numerous pages I follow have had to have more heavy moderation because they are so heated. However, from what I can tell in my corner of Booktube, a lot of influencers have been silent. Daniel Greene did address it in Fantasy News and stated that he would not be covering it because it is just so heavy and it goes beyond his scope of the content he creates. But I respect him for at least acknowledging that it is beyond him and he is with the victims. I am also glad that you are addressing it and making your stance be known that you will no longer be promoting his books. I think booktubers choosing to be silent right now is as bad (or worse than) the apologists. I realize the vulture article just came out 2 days ago, so I am hoping that other creators have some type of response in the works, but the allegations started back in July. Why has everyone taken so long to respond? The only thing I can think of is that the news stories and any details were very difficult to find and the details you could find were vague and limited at best. Obviously, that has massively changed with the release of the Vulture article, so I'm hoping that the booktube radio silence will too.
I feel like I'm heavily involved in booktube and fantasy Fandom groups and I only started hearing about this maybe 2 days ago? I'm not making excusing for anyone but I was shocked that this was old news just coming out. I do think powerful people have connections to suppress stories until someone independent makes a stink and it become viral.
@@Theblondebass1 I heard about in some facebook groups that are primarily fantasy. Honestly, other than Daniel's comment and now Johan's video, I haven't seen it at all on booktube
@jax426nd now we know! This is whole situation makes me feel my skin crawl. For relatively minor opinions I prefer to not know too much about authors but for heinous crimes I want to know so I can vote with my wallet and not support them. Makes me sad. Feel like it can't possibly be that hard to be an mediocre to ok person, so to abuse fans and woman in this way there is no excuse.
@Theblondebass1 I 100% agree! That's why I rarely deep dive into authors. But if something is significant enough that it violates someone's basic human rights and could even result in prison time, I absolutely want to know!
i personally think it's very hard to separate the art from the artist, since the art is a result of the artist's personality. for instance, van gogh wouldn't have painted the way he did, if he was a secure and cheerful poeple pleaser. miyazaki wouldn't have created the films he did if he spent a lot more time with his family. every artist is driven by what's in their heart/mind... by what compels them. therefore i think you cannot separate one from the other. this is not a judgement of good vs bad. or right vs wrong. i'm only saying the artist and the art are intrinsically linked. (therse are just my thoughts. i don't claim them to be facts)
Not a fan of Gaiman, but I went through this years ago with my favourite tween author, David Eddings. I love reading books written by people with different ideas and political views, and I don't expect artists to be saints, but when it's abuse of the vilest kind, man, I can't. Seeing the books on my shelf made me feel so sad for his victims. I threw them out.
If you want to read a similar author, try Diana Wynne Jones. They were actually close friends before she died. Her books like Dogsbody (which Neil Gaiman actually wrote the introduction to), Fire & Hemlock, and The Time of The Ghost share a lot of his whimsy, which I'm starting to realize is most prominently found in middle grade stories. DWJ has given me that same magical childhood feeling you describe at the start. So if you want some books to read that could possibly give you that same whimsy while you grapple with losing your favorite author...she's a great substitute. (lol I didn't get to the point in the video where DWJ was mentioned on Reddit when I commented this, but my opinion still stands. She's great.) Also this is all wild and I had no idea it was happening until finding your video....Actually, I thought this video would be about him killing off characters or something much more lighthearted and silly to earn the title "monster"...I never in a million years thought he'd be capable of something like this. I agree about cutting out his books altogether...It's too hard to separate the art from the artist when something this horrific is a factor.
His new work is radioactive to me. I won't read his new books. I won't watch new seasons of his shows. I've had his old books for so long, that they feel like they're mine. I will not let him steal my memories from me.
That shows once again how common the naivety of black and white thinking still is. A lot of people still think in terms of "how could it be the same person?", when history has shown us time and time again many examples of either "good" people doing bad things, or "bad" people doing good.
I've been doing the same the last few days trying to come to terms with it all and how I feel about reading his work, like I have about four books in shelves still to be read but like a book I read last year called 'Monster: A fan's Dilemma' about consuming art to find out it's created by an artist who's done some terrible things and that its very individual whether you can feel okay with continuing to consume that artists work and even dare I say enjoy it. For me one of the chapters mentioned that their biography stains their work and for me this is exactly that I won't want to read his works now because what he has done to those women is unspeakable and has left a mark I can't remove. I appreciate you sharing this video and highlighting how you feel. He's an vile man.
Why is it that so often the brightest and most creative minds also go down some of the darkest and most inexplicable paths? I’m curious to see how this progresses legally. I read some articles when the news first broke but I haven’t read anything more recently like the Vulture article you noted.
Boredom along with power getting to their head. They have some extremely loose morals as well and narcissism. They start believing that people who they view are beneath them can be used for whatever they wish and discarded. That they don't matter beside on how to use. This is a major issue plaguing many of the celebrities, world leaders and politicians, and ultra wealthy people of our world. Stuff like this is normalized and even encouraged in that space. It saddens me greatly that Gaimen is one of these scumbags.
well I have been reading Neil Gaiman since the 80s and yes he is one of the best writers out there loved his prose esp. on the Sandman books, now I always thought he was a good guy but yah everyone has a skeleton in his closet and like Bill Cosby I did not know it was this bad. I would say seperate the author from his books, but its hard to do for many people, and true me also his writing is so good and personal that I really was shocked that he turned out this way
There are undoubtedly many cases of real abuse, but there are also numerous instances of wrongful accusations. Unfortunately, the public has increasingly taken on the role of judge, jury, and executioner, often disregarding the very laws designed to prevent hasty judgments and ensure justice. This video is a perfect example of everything wrong with this dynamic. To be clear, I’m not defending Gaiman. If he’s guilty, he should absolutely face the consequences for his actions. This discussion isn’t even about the often-debated idea of separating the artist from the person. After all, the person behind the art is someone you’ve likely never met-you only know the work they’ve created and what it means to you. That’s what you admire, not the individual themselves. The problem lies in the public's reaction, which often stems from idolization, romanticization, and misplaced fanaticism. This video, along with its comment section and the emotional responses it has provoked, exemplifies how irrational and personal these reactions can become. We don’t need to argue about “separating” the artist from the person or trivialize serious accusations. As adults, we can recognize and accept reality for what it is. I can continue to enjoy Gaiman’s art while also acknowledging the gravity of the crimes he is accused of-if they are proven true. At the end of the day, it’s your personal choice whether to become emotionally attached to someone you’ve never met. Let's promote rationality instead and not letting emotions dictate judgment.
Interesting comment. I tend to agree. The only thing I have an issue with, concerning living authors/artist, is when consuming their work means directly rewarding them with money from buying their work - even if it’s the work you appreciate, even if you’re not emotionally attached to the person you’ve never met, it still feels somehow wrong. Even though most of it goes to the publishing house. Somehow, I don’t have this issue so much when, say, consuming films where some actors (or producers) have been known to have done monstrous acts. So how to approach that? Though I guess this is at least a more rational conversation to be had…
THIS. You put into words my biggest complaint with all these “breaking news” videos we’re seeing. This hasn’t even gone to trial. We’re taking someone’s accusation, believing them at face value, and already deciding someone’s future. It’s insane, but regardless of what I feel in my heart or what I believe, I still believe in fair trial.
I agree with you too, and I’m kinda having paranoid about some scandals as if they were completely false to ruin someone’s reputation, but that’s not my job to investigate or put label “criminal” without proper proof from court. To me whole thing to separate art from artist seems logical, but it’s not a choice to feel smth, logic doesn’t apply to emotions. But again, you did a very well put together post
You are a monster for believing accusations without proof. You have absolutely no sense of justice if a single article can convince you a man is a criminal when he hasn't even stood trial or there is hard evidence of guilt (e.g a video).
Finally, someone saying it, I've read a good amount, and I would highly agree that he is a creep. But rape is such a strong word, and so is sexual assault. Coercion seems likely, which is still horrible but not the same. Especially as he was in relationships with these women, and he had some harsh sexual tastes that I would never personally agree with, making it more muddled. But justice is justice, innocent until proven guilty. A court trial is necessary here. Monstrous as he may be, many claims haven't been proven, and I don't sit well with that.
This is off topic but does anyone know what kind of haircut the library of a viking is rocking because it's great and I'm trying to get the same haircut 😆
Thanks for making this video. I’m having the same struggle. SANDMAN has been either my absolute favorite work of literature or at the very least, in my top three. And I have often called him my favorite living author.
I mean I will say, he hasn’t been found guilty of anything. These are at this moment allegations. People should take them seriously, but he shouldn’t be declared guilty until he is actually found guilty.
The artist’s beliefs, values, and biases are the material art is made from. The media is just how the material is turned into a physical form. If the artist is a monster, their art is monstrous. You can enjoy monstrous art, but you have to question what that means about you. You are what you eat.
I love the tv show so I bought the book a few days ago, i didn't know what happened to him until now. After reading I decided to dive deeper into Terry's works and found out that he had the Discworld series, which is a new discovery! It's a bit overwhelming since there are a lot of books, hopefully I can find a few starters. Many people whom I looked up to have been cancelled over the time so all I can do is shrug and move on.
@ Guards!Guards! Is a good jumping on point. Many people advise against the first two in the series, Colour of Magic and Light Fantastic because they’re far from the best.
There are authors whose works I've loved that, if I heard such things about them, I would immediately dismiss them as ridiculous, because the mind that created those works is not compatible with the actions described. I've loved Neil Gaiman's works. But putting these allegations next to the mind that created those works, the allegations are easy to believe. He's very good at portraying charismatic darkness. Shocking, but not surprising. His life must be miserable, glory and riches notwithstanding. May justice be done, and may God forgive him.
My heart really goes out to those he's abused and manipulated. It also goes out to those that were a fan and cherished this work and felt like they had found a kindred soul. For some reason this betrayal does seem more personal to me and many other readers. After listening to the podcast I was in two minds about keeping his book. Now having read this harrowing article I cannot bare to see the books that are now scattered and hidden all over my room. I only hope that these women's voices are heard and that a court case will be soon to follow.
From what i understand, the only reason Rowling didn't see her contemporaries calling out Gaiman, was because those contemporaries have her blocked. Call-outs apparently did happen, she just couldn't physically see them.
Inexcusable actions that I'll forever hold him accountable for. His stories, however, are works of art i will appreciate and revisit tirelessly. How many stories do we cherish that have been written by monsters that were never revealed?
You're giving yourself an excuse for continuing to support a monster by creating an imaginary what-if scenario about all other artists. If Gaiman had assaulted someone you love would you still treasure those books?
@@CarlaBaku Nobody is forcing his victims to read his work,and nobody can force anyone else not to. There are ways to read him without giving him money. It's not your place to police how someone else deals with it. Reading alone is not supporting.
Whenever I read my favorite books, the back part of my mind is seeing the author...wondering how they chose the words...where the characters came from ... what life experience the author had to bring forth this wonderful book. I don't think, actually I'm quite certain that I can't separate the art from the artist because now it will be a monster standing over my shoulder casting an unholy shadow over the words. I will be boxing up the books and stashing them. It probably will be the first time that there will truly be a monster under my bed. How sad...and I am certain, ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE, that Terry Pratchett never knew. Good Omens stays on my book shelf. Pratchett's goodness overshadows Gaiman. He always did.
Everyone talking about „separating the art from the artist“ this has been a debate since the dawn of time and honestly it’s such a grey zone. Why is Wagner still popular when he was massively antisemitic, which was present in his works? Personally I won’t be able to read any of Gaimans books ever again, however, I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong if people read his works as long as no money or support goes towards him, so pirate it bare minimum
Separating the art from the artist is important … but when an artist actually victimizes other people on this kind of personal level, that’s a line I cannot cross. Also, I see a few comments here saying basically “innocent until proven guilty” but these comments are missing the point. This is not a formal trial, there likely never will be because we have only hearsay evidence and no smoking gun … but like you said not all these women could be lying and their stories corroborate each other. It requires a special kind of ignorance and lack of common sense to ignore that at this point.
I think this is something as a society that we are in the process of figuring out how to deal with: when an artist you love turns out to behave so badly. It's easier to separate the art from the artist when the artist is dead, but when they're still alive, it's different. And fiction by definition creates emotional responses in us, which is why people feel so deeply, personally connected to books they love and to the writers who wrote them. So I think it's quite natural to feel betrayed - in a way that with, perhaps Weinstein, it's a little more distant. But a writer like Gaiman (or JK Rowling with her rampant transphobia) or a musician like Michael Jackson, it just hits so much more personally. The grief is real, but I don't know yet how to process that either as an individual or as a community of fans. If someone that I actually knew behaved like that, there would be an actual relationship with them that could be renegotiated. Like, say a family member committed a heinous crime, I could say, "I hate what you did but I'll still take care of your kids or visit you in jail," or whatever. But with an artist, we only have a relationship with them through their content, and how can that be renegotiated other than no longer consuming the content or promoting them? I just don't know.
Imagine comparing Rowling who has done nothing more than stand up for the rights of women and girls to rapists and sexual abusers? You can disagree with her but to put her in the same group as the men you have listed is ridiculous.
@@stewartlaw9382 She's not standing up for girls and women. She is spewing hate and attacking women - cis as well as trans. It's not the same as rape, no. But it's still hateful and harmful and is tainting her legacy.
You said everything on this highly difficult subject so eloquently and I applaud you for your honesty. I like some of his books, not all. I have not decided what to do long term, but I won't buy any more of his books, I will not promote his works and definitely taking a long break from reading any. I believe each person will be dealing with it in their own way. As I come from a much older person's POV, never idolize someone. Do not put them on a pedestal, regardless of what positive influence they had on your life, because they are not Gods. They are human, with skeletons in their closets and they are strangers. Even the Gods were flawed. I felt this way with Marion Zimmer Bradley, being a fan of the Darkover books, then finding out about both her and her husband. I felt the same with Bill Cosby, whom so many of us grew up watching his shows and loving him, only to find out he, too, followed a pattern and was a serial rapist. Saying we were all shocked is an understatement. My prayers to the victims and to those who put far too much trust and praise into a highly flawed human being.
This reminds me of author Philip K Dick. While he writes some really great stories especially in the sci-fi genre, that are popular with Hollywood and the modern Gnostic movement. But in his personal life he was a monster as well. His treatment of women was also abusive. Not sexually, but physically and mentally. He abused his third wife Anne Williams Rubinstein and had her committed. And later he tried to kill another woman Grania Davis, luckily she was able to get away and eventually and moved to a different part of CA to live out her life.
Hahah ngl, not excusing his behaviour towards women the only reason why I love PKD and the only reason any of his work is interesting to me is because he was a deranged addict.
Neil Gaiman is done. Having said that, my Sandman volumes stay on the shelf. Those artists who gave life to his words had nothing to do with this mess and I'm always partial to the drawings when it comes to comics anyway.
Last summer I wanted to read a Gaiman novel for the first time. It was on my TBR and it was going to be my next read. Then I read the news about him and I can't bring myself to read one of his books now. I really appreciate this video. I've been watching you for a while and noticed the Gaiman recommendations. I think it's so important as a creator to adress this. Thank you so much.
I don't know whether this stuff is true or not and I don't read his books so it doesn't matter as much to me. But I will say, the fact he's a self-proclaimed feminist is what's the biggest red flag and makes me inclined to believe the allegations are true.
I still think that "The Sandman" is an incredible story and one of my favorite comic stories of all time. Even after all these things i will still complete my collection of those comics. I also struggle with him being such an asshole. But when i read the "The Sandman" i tend to feel more with the characters in the comic itself and i can mostly ignore what the author has done. I will never forget it and will forever hate him for waht he has done, but i still want to love his works seperate from his being. And that is what i am trying to do. Love the worlds he created, but hate the person behnd it. The same goes, at least for me, for Rowling. I love the world she has build around Harry Potter mostly, but i do not like her as a person. There are other examples of authors, who are horrible beings and created interesting and fantastical worlds. It is difficult to seperate the authors with their work, but i do tend to do it more often nowadays.
I have recently been given to understand that Gaiman also ripped off large swathes of Tanith Lee's Tales from the Flat Earth for Sandman, so if you're a grieving Sandman fan maybe reading some Tanith Lee would help 🧡
To be clear, I don't _think_ he has been found guilty, but has been accussed by quite a few women. So the court of public opinion has nailed him for sure, but it is possible he is not guilty. ie: Due process and all that, so lets be cautious until its judged. FWIW you should probably put 'allegedly' before a lot of your statements, so you're not exposed to risk. (I'm thinking Brian D Greene had a bunch of allegedly prefixed to cover himself after getting in trouble?)
I only been introduced to Neil Gaiman when I came across Coraline back in middle school in Japan. And then I seek out American Gods because I'm such a mythology nerd. But hearing stories like these...well, I don't think I should seek out more of his works...
Even though there is a case for separating an author's work (or musician, artist, poet, actor, etc) from their personal lives, it's not always that simple. This is why it is said that one shouldn't meet one's idols because they will most likely have feet of clay. I feel horrible about all this because Neil Gaiman has always been one of my favorite authors and his work has always seemed so pure and inspiring. I hope he feels as bad as we all do.
"Gaiman has publicly denied all allegations of non-consensual sexual activity. In a blog post, he expressed horror and dismay at the claims, stating, "I have never engaged in non-consensual sexual activity." He acknowledged being emotionally unavailable and careless in past relationships but maintained that the specific allegations are either false or distorted." So there's that. And I'm not a fan of the man's work. I never thought it was very good. What I AM a fan of, however, is "innocent until proven guilty", ESPECIALLY with not very credible SA allegations against men in Gaiman's position. Go look at the long and ever growing list of prominent men targeted with false accusations. If you're not familiar with it, go look at what happened with the allegations, charges and eventual court case against a Canadian broadcaster named Jian Ghomeshi. Distasteful? Yes. But people should not be prosecuted and have their lives and careers ruined just because someone SAYS they did something. At what point are you people going to learn this basic lesson?
Vast majority of grape accusation are truthful and the vast majority of predators never get in charged or given prison time. Would this be different for prominent men?
One of his Sandman stories was about an author who traps a muse in his attic and assaults her for years while being lauded in public as a feminist author. These allegations really put that story into a different and horrifying context!
Yes. In the story the writer kidnaps and rapes calliope, one of the most famous muses in Greek mythology. All the while playing the good guy, while keeping a piece of beauty as a sex slave. This struck me. Very repulsive and reprehensible.
The tv show made it obvious that the character was based off of himself: one time during a lecture the author shouted “ahhhhh new idea: a werewolf bites a couch and a goldfish!!”, a direct quote from a Gaiman interview.
Makes me wonder now, what other evil self-inserts have the authors saying the quiet parts out loud…
YES, I immediately had this in mind too when I read the article. It was really unconformable to read in the comic book but now it seems even more disturbing. It was really graphic and drawn in a way... Like feedind in the pain of the woman. I wasnt able to continue my reading, despite my love for the character of Dream.
@@gianni206 Alexis Marshal, frontman of Daughters could arguably also fall under "evil self-inserts have the authors saying the quiet parts out loud".
Where can I get that book?
There’s this guy, but the one that really killed me is Alice Munro knowing her husband was raping her daughter for years and then choosing the husband over the daughter. I’ll never be able to read her books again. The literary world was shook.
A la Marion Zimmerman Bradley!!! I threw away so many books the moment I read about her husband’s behavior and her response to it 🤢🤮
@@rebeccalefler4506was just going to post exactly the same comment... I did exactly the same thing... But I do find it weird that I knew someone who also threw J.K.Rowling books away just because she had a different opinion. When you have nasty pieces of work like Gaiman... And monsters like Bradley.
@@mikethebloodthirstyto be fair, i think “difference of opinion” when it’s about whether a group of people should exist or not is a tad reductive, no?
@@RosinaRosinaRosina Is she advocating for trans people to be killed?
God, I wish the Nobel Prize committee takes back her prize for literature. That prize means nothing now, it’s just a glorified paperweight!
Thank you for not caring about monetization and being truthful to the English language and semantics by saying real words like rape.
I agree so much. While the media uses increasingly complicated language to avoid potential lawsuits, it's up to people who appreciate literature and therefore the power of the language to call a spade a spade.
I agree! I am not sure what change we are making by just no addressing something by it's actual word?!! Like the comment below, let's go back to calling a spade a spade.
@@angiethebookaholic I would delve to much into socio-political and Black Rock elitist agendas if I wanted to explore why they might be doing these semantical ideas, much like calling a vagina a bonus hole, so I will refrain from giving you my opinion on that.
Satire!
I don’t know that rape is even a strong enough word for what he did
Now turn your rage toward the capitalist structures that even insensitive this
Or continue to see esoteric corporate double speak until the end of time
I'm real big about "gotta separate the art from the artist." HOWEVER! I did take those Sandman hardcovers off my shelf where the camera is on them every video. What a creep.
Did you know that Sandman was largely(if not wholely) plagerized from the works of Tanith Lee?
This is about Neil Gaiman.
Ta-Nehisi Coates’ BETWEEN THE WORLD AND ME is a great book. Insightful, beautifully written, profound.
Coates modeled his book on James Baldwin’s THE FIRE NEXT TIME.
We know this because Coates was open and up-front about this fact.
George R.R. Martin’s GAME OF THRONES/A Song of Ice and Fire is a great series.
Martin modeled his books on a series by a French author named Maurice Druon.
We know this because Martin was open and up-front about this fact.
Viet Thanh Nguyen’s THE SYMPATHIZER is a great book.
He modeled it on a book written in Vietnamese, whose title escapes me.
We know this because Nguyen was open and up-front about this fact.
Neil Gaiman’s THE SANDMAN is a great comic book series.
Gaiman modeled his series on Tanith Lee’s TALES FROM THE FLAT EARTH.
But you wouldn’t know this, because Gaiman has never given her any credit.
Despite the fact that the main character - a byronic, pale, otherworldly, deity-like character - is the prince of night and dreams.
Despite the fact that every time people see art depicting Tanith Lee’s main character Azhrarn, they think it’s Morpheus from the Sandman. (How bad is this? When people see depictions of her character, they say SHE must have ripped HIM off.)
Despite the fact that the dream lord’s younger sibling is Death.
Despite the fact that other members of his family include Delusion, Delirium…. They are not gods but beings older than gods, and when the gods die, Dream, Death, Delusion, and Delirium will remain. This family of immortal, eternal, unchanging beings, who each embody an eternal abstraction starting with the letter D.
Someone else on the internet, noticing the similarities, flipped open the third book in Tanith Lee’s series to a random page, and lo and behold, there’s a description of a character who was clearly the inspiration for Gaiman’s Mazikeen.
The prose, the characters, the narrative strategies, the mythology, the story structure, all of it: Gaiman found it all in Tanith Lee‘s writing and never gave her any credit.
He became rich and famous profiting from her ideas. People effused over his amazing imagination, when the ideas they praised him for were actually created by Tanith Lee. And, while he was building his name and fame, she was struggling. In the 1990s, toward the end of her life, she complained in an interview that magazines weren’t buying her stories anymore.
A simple “If you like The Sandman, you should really read Tanith Lee’s books!” from Neil Gaiman would have meant so much to her career. To the livelihood of a struggling, less-privileged writer, whose amazing imagination Gaiman was actively ripping off.
People praised The Sandman comics for their depiction of gay and trans identities. But in the original material, Tanith Lee was far more progressive about lgbtq+ identities, and that was twenty years earlier.
I first read Tanith Lee’s book NIGHT’S MASTER (the first in the FLAT EARTH series) in maybe 2005, about 10 years after first reading The Sandman. I looked to see if Gaiman had credited her for “his” ideas; as far as I could tell, he never had.
And for the subsequent 19 years, whenever I see a new Neil Gaiman interview, the first thing I do is ctrl-F to search to see if he mentioned Tanith Lee. And he never has, that I’ve seen.
I have no difficulty believing the accusations against him.
Because I know - KNOW - that he has felt entitled to take what he wants from a woman, without her permission, and without any acknowledgement of her contributions.
And, finally:
If you loved Neil Gaiman’s stories, if you are heartbroken to learn the storyteller you loved is apparently an abuser, here is my suggestion:
track down Tanith Lee’s TALES FROM THE FLAT EARTH books. Her prose is more exquisite and imaginative, her ideas more original, her empathy real.
Edited to add: the illustration is by an artist who goes by Azhrarn on DeviantArt, depicting Tanith Lee’s Azhrarn.
Edited again: A lot of people are buying Lee’s book THE EARTH IS FLAT. This is the wrong place to begin; it’s a collection of posthumously published stories set in the same world as the series. The place to begin would either be NIGHT’S MASTER or the omnibus edition of the first three books, LORDS OF DARKNESS.
I wish I could do that, but just seeing the name instantly reminds me of the actions and behaviours so Gaiman is off the shelves and out of my library. Which really sucks, because I loved Sandman.
I read “Sanderson hardcovers” and was very concerned for a second.
And even this statement has its limits. It makes sense for something like political disagreements but this was straight up criminal behavior, it's impossible to not see an artist differently after that
My condolences about loosing Gaiman. If you like Gaiman, you'll love Terry Pratchet. His work is always thought-provoking and endlessly hilarious. On top of that, he was a true gentleman who was taken from us too early. I found his books life changing. I hope they bring some solace to you.
Gaiman was good friends with Pratchett, Stephen King, Tori Amos. I'm not saying they knew this stuff. I'm saying, he managed to pull the wool over a lot of people's eyes, people who were much closer than his fans. I can't imagine what King and Amos are feeling about this.
@@MrNyathi1 Fortunately Pratchett died before any of it came to light.
Been there, done that, with my former favorite manga author, the creator of Rurouni Kenshin. Some advice that worked for me - Take the books off your shelf, put them in a box, and hide the box somewhere it won't be in the way. Wait a year or so. Find comfort rereading your second or third favorite authors. Can they be your new #1 favorite now? Or are they still only your second or third favorite? Is it time to begin the search for a new favorite author entirely? If so, lean into that excitement, that there is a new favorite author out there just waiting for you to discover them! After that year (or however long you need) has passed and you have been exploring other authors, dig out the box you put away. Do you think you can engage with the author's work again? If so, try and see how you feel now. Is there enough distance that you can still enjoy any of those books? If so, determine to what extent. If not, do you think you can finally let go of the books? And remember if you do change your mind after letting them go, used copies exist. Navigating your way through something like this is deeply personal and different for everyone. Only time and distance from engaging with his works will begin to heal the feelings of betrayal. But it's ok, every reader faces something like this at some point. You're not alone.
Oh, lord, forgot about that.
Rurouni Kenshin remains my fav historical manga, whatever that writer did.
Same. I was so heartbroken. Kenshin as a story and character has so many good teachings to teach us that all of that has now been stained. I still love the material because it contains none of what Watsuki was arrested for. I love the anime and live action. Though the live action is more the property of Director Keishi Otomo rather than the author. Otomo and Takeru Satoh (actor who plays Kenshin) were both disappointed and heartbroken because they really fought to have the live action and sequels made. Otomo was horrified and spoke against Watsuki since he himself has young daughters. I refuse to buy the new Hokkaido arc or any more new manga Watsuki publishes. I still have my old manga that I keep away. I just can't look at them.
What if it is not them alone, but also partly you? That also you have a role to play?
I found my people. It sucked SO bad when I saw the news about how insanely disgusting the mangaka was. Rurouni Kenshin and his other works were my favorite and collected figs, the entire manga collection, media stuff all for me to just pack it away and never support the author again.
But hey One Piece will keep me going for a lifetime.
What did Kenshin do wrong?
To find out that “Calliope” from Sandman was actually a confession is both wild and absolutely disgusting.
"seperate the art from the artist" is next to impossible for living artists because everytime you consume their art, everytime you talk about it online, the artist *will* benefit from it. the only attempt that could probably succeed at it is piracy.
You don’t need to pirate books to not make the author money-just buy them from a second hand bookstore or local thrift store.
As much as I would try to separate the art from artist, in the back of my mind would be the nagging thought itching away until eventually I don't bother with the art anymore.
@Face2East same here. the only times i can't do this, is when the art is deeply ingrained into a part of my life, especially anything regarding childhood memories, and i simply cannot abandon my love for it. but anything i have no personal connections to is pretty easy to drop and move on to something else
Piracy is not the answer. That way you still hurt the publishers and retailers the most, as most of sales profits go to them.
Buying second hand and libraries is the ethical way to go about it.
I like the Borges interpretation that their creation is an aspect or representation of their consciousness.
"Creativity is not necessarily an index of kindness. "
----Thomas Ligotti
I have a friend who used to be a HUGE Gaiman fan. She's read everything by him and has been recommending his works to me for years. She was shaken after this article came out. It is truly so scary that the people who seem to be the nicest and most thoughtful are the biggest monsters behind closed doors.
I don’t think Neil was ever nice. I saw him speak years ago, and it didn’t change how much I loved his writing, but he came across as a bit of an asshole. But never in a million years would I have guessed he was an abuser.
Oft spoke Rule of Thumb: Never meet your idols.
or dont have idols, you are not 5 years old.
@@joek600this is the better version, honestly
Also. The louder someone yells about how virtuous they are, the more likely they are to be hiding something awful.
Glad to say I once bumped into Joe Abercrombie on the street and he proved this isn't the case. Absolutely lovely guy!
How about don't idolise people in the first place? I don't get hero worship at all, never have. There are artists who's work I enjoy but I have never idolised any of them.
This is why i never had "heros" or favorite authors. I dont seek out interviews or even care about who wrote the books i enjoy, i just enjoy the story and move on. The truth is almost everyone has things in their closet they keep hidden and you never know who they are. Everyone is flawed, some more than others. Usually the the ones who claim self righteousness are the worst of all.
That sounds dumb.
@IchibanOjousama you're welcome to think so, but I'm not the one devastated that an author I admired, seeked out, and got an autograph of turned out to be a reprobate. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It is with experience that im saying that being in a "Fandom" is the worst thing you can do to the art youre enjoying. Coz fans are blind to flaws of the art, and i find some art of "bad" people to be so great but it sends me in a dilemma many times. Everyone is so much more complex than just good or evil, so just dont idiolize a real human
Exactly the same here. There are some creators (authors, musicians, etc) that I might enjoy more than others, ones that hit a spot that no one else I enjoy can hit the same way, but *no one* gets put on a pedestal. I also tend to skip interviews and articles, because I want to keep my enjoyment and appreciation of a creator in a very specific and limited context. I don't need to pretend to know these people, or pretend to be invested in their personal lives or their claimed beliefs, I just need to enjoy their creations for what they are and move on.
@RevShifty THIS
It's hard to draw an exact line, but I can't really get on board with the idea of separating the art from the artist in a situation like this. It's one thing if someone is just a bit unpleasant or something, but it's entirely another if they are a serial rapist.
Exactly.
It makes no difference if they tortured, mutilated and murdered ten trillion people in the most horrific ways imaginable, that has no relation to other aspects of their lives or work they made, people aren't things they do they're people. If Hitler paints a painting him killing millions later has nothing to do with the painting in the slightest. Secular leftists have this weird religious idea of "bad people" (despite not believing in morality) where instead of actions being bad if you've done anything wrong it somehow makes you bad as a person and infects anything else you've done even if it's unrelated, at least religious people let you repent and move on yet the most puritan don't even believe in meaning. They're already saying they can't adapt his shows anymore it's insane, all people are capable of doing all things good or bad if someone does something wrong it's what they did that's wrong and not the person, this need to cut off any association with them or anything they did is some sort of weird parasocial purity testing.
Read LEAD ME WHERE THE LIGHT IS OURS by n.galilea ~ It goes over how F r a n ci s and the Vatican still cover up s abuse
i completely agree with you, separating art from the artist works in cases where their political opinions differ from yours or they're dead, but continuing to support an abusive rapist isn't the best look. for example, charles dickens was a horrible weirdo who had a lot of racist bullshit to say about my people but i can separate the man from his art because my reading his works/buying his books won't benefit him anymore because he's been dead for like centuries now
I understand
As the father of a victim (of a different predator), my heart goes out to the victims and their families. And it's one thing to appreciate the stories - it's another to contribute to him financially in some way.
I am a Terry Pratchett fan, not a Gaiman one. I am absolutely heart broken about Good Omens. All I can say is that my friend Terry would be SO angry with him.
And when multiple women tell the same story you have to believe them.
Ooih Really. So if a "few" women tell a story... it's always 100% truth? All the details are present immediately...Also you believe the majority is always right, because they are all knowing.... 😂 .... Right?!
@@MirellaDerks Are you ok?
@@MirellaDerks Ragebait, don't engage
Sir Terry couldn't possibly have known, at worst he might have missed some signs, his *whole thing* was that "evil begins when you start treating people as things" and he would never have condoned this 😭 I also never cared as much about Gaiman as I do about Pratchett. I hate that they ever had any proximity to each other 😭
Thank you for saying this. I am a huge Pratchett fan, and was a Gaiman fan...I feel sure that sir Pratchett would absolutely not have condoned this, and I feel so sorry for people like Rhianna, Lynn and Rob Wilkins (as I am for Tori Amos) who probably have been knowing Gaiman for years, have had good relationships with him, maybe felt him like a friend or a kind uncle, and now they are faced with this awful truth. If I feel anger and betrayal from a parasocial knowledge, I don't know what they are feeling...and I like to imagine that if sir Pratchett was still alive he would be kicking him while probably telling him a thing or two... unfortunately, I've started reading some comments of people saying that maybe sir Pratchett was just as bad...and I want to cry...
It's always the one that profess how virtuous they are.
Good thing for me my self-esteem is too low for that. Best I can come up with is "I'm pretty morally decent for a loser".
I'm in the exact same boat as having been the biggest Neil Gaiman fan since my teens when he really got me back into fantasy 😞 I was sick to my stomach after reading that article on Vulture on Monday and I just find it so beyond deeply upsetting that such a monster could have been hiding behind such beautiful words. Those poor women. I hope they're able to find some peace now that they've been able to share their stories.
Unfortunately, this is becoming such a pattern, I'm wondering if I can be a fan of anyone anymore while having to wonder who they really are behind the scenes. :/
Yes. It is somewhat of a pattern. Isn't it?
Can't wait for the allegations to be proven false and everyone will flip flop again
@@kyleethekelt Nah, it's confirmation bias. There are far more authors where nothing ever happens, we just have a selection bias here.
It's always been like this. Sadly the most interesting art has to delve in to the darkest places. Smart phone culture means almost every minute of an artists day is documented. But if you dug into artists all the way bad to Shakespeare's time you are guaranteed to find some disturbing stuff, I'm sure.
@@danielbroome5690in general, true. In comics, not necessarily. I had 4 top tier comic writers: Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Warren Ellis, and Junji Ito. 2 of 4 have had bad accusations against them (Ellis not nearly as bad as Gaiman, but still carelessness and disrespect at least). If anything came out about Moore or Ito, it would legitimately change how I view the medium at this point.
You will hear folks say ‘separate the art from the artist.’ Perhaps instead of that: explore other authors! There are way too many books out there to care about his stuff if it eats on your conscience.
You can do both.
@@MetalGildarts ONE problem of this approach is, that if you continue to spend money on whatever product- book, music, movie - then you are putting money in the pocket of someone whom you supposedly despise.
Feels like you're one step away from condemning people who read his books rather than only condemning him.
@@Julian-bq9qv Second hand bookstores great.
If there arent any of those near you then there are... (Puts on eyepatch) other ways... to ethically consume art without financially supporting the author.
@sernoddicusthegallant6986 This. It's possible for bad people to make good art. It's okay to enjoy his art. But I understand not wanting to support him - I agree - sooooo alternative methods of procuring his books is ideal!
I believe the article mentioned that the victims were under investigation - they were checking their conversations from that time with the pig himself, friends, family etc. they also looked at the patterns in their stories. So I think at this point it’s safe to say he is guilty. When there is more than one victim, we should always pay more attention. Also I don’t believe someone would want to say this to the world if it wasn’t true, given how often we see victim blaming. In my country, someone would be immediately like - “why she took the bath, it was obvious he wanted to sleep with her, she could just leave etc.”. I find those victims incredibly brave. My heart broke.
"Also I don’t believe someone would want to say this to the world if it wasn’t true, given how often we see victim blaming"
There was a whole documentary around accusing Marilyn Manson that turned out false. Underestimating the shamelessness of people is not a good way too establish creditability.
People aren’t monsters, to call them that ignores the fact that these cases are a lot more common than we would like to think (assuming that these allegations are true). People can do terrible things, they can also do wonderful things. Some people can do both, which is confusing. Don’t have heroes, they will let you down. Admire people’s work, be careful of admiring them too much.
THIS. All of this. Every human being is capable of both good and evil - it's arguable that what's more important is to acknowledge what they've done is wrong, hold them accountable and make sure it doesn't happen again. (Although I'm not really a Neil Gaiman fan, so I suppose it's not as simple for others.)
@ I am a NG fan, or rather a fan of his work, especially because I am a fan of Terry Pratchett. I also like some of Wagner’s work, and when I was little I liked to
read Enid Blyton and Tintin. Nowadays there are a lot of works that I took pleasure in, where the person who produced it is “problematic”. It doesn’t cause me a problem, though I find issue with the person, I admire the work.
This is what I came to say. If you only read works of authors who do not do horrible things you wont have much to read.
Your first sentence is unpersuasive. Let's grant that such cases are more common than we think. What follows is not that they aren't monsters, but that there are a lot more monsters in the world than we'd like to admit.
You're missing a very obvious point. When he wrote those books that you deem ''wonderful'', he was telling on himself. This is what sociopaths do. Sociopaths get satisfaction from indirectly telling the people who they really are and ''duping'' people. Some people out there are really not good.
He was one of my favourites as well... He is a genius but he is also a horrible horrible human being who has abused the power he has. Its sad but I don't think I'll ever be able to enjoy his work anymore.
I loved Bill Cosby’s comedy for years. The allegations and convictions tainted that product and his memory. Neil Gaiman hasn’t been my favorite author, but this is still a horrifying circumstance and loss.
@@rachelmilne6603 yeah .... Bill was one of my favorite comedians back in the day. I loved his Noah's Ark bit. Was shocked when the truth about him came out.
As a woman: THANK YOU. Men like you that understand how deeply hurtful is a S A, mean the world to us. It was so normalized and kinda hidden during so many years, that many men still refuse to believe how sadly common it is.
Not those of us who've also experienced it. And I suspect that many who deny how common it is, are actually trying to hide that they were victims, too. Please don't take that as an attempt to introduce any sort of false equivalence about power in society, or dismiss the frequency and weight of male on female SA. Rather, I'm saying that the "men are never victims, men can never be vulnerable, cowboys don't cry" narrative is incredibly harmful for everyone, men and women. Apart from anything else, someone who is so closed to the idea of acknowledging their trauma, even to themselves, tends to end up dishing out trauma to others.
The ex Zimmer Bradley's fans know this road well
Edit: i would like to direct everyone to Stephen lawheads pendragon cycle as its way better, way better written and researched. Authorian lore, and the author isnt a pos!
Your comment sent me to google.
WHAT. THE. HECK?!?!
There are levels to depravity. This scrapes the bottom.
@madiantin welcome to the rock bottom hell pit of 'this author is a pos' metric
I learned about it just as I had finished "The Mists of Avalon".My friend took it way harder and donated her books to our uni library. The issue isn't just that she was a pos, it's that the themes she was writing her works about contradicted everything she ended up doing in real life. That's the issue with Gaiman for me, that's why I don't actually care if he is legally guilty. In any case, his behavior is unacceptable for someone whom I appreciated not only for his prose, but his ideas.
Yes!
I was so ready to read "The Mists of Avalon," and that information was revealed before I ever checked the book out of the library. Now I just can't bring myself to read it.
Neil Gaiman's response to one of the accusations gave away his guiltiness. (What follows isnt graphic, but still deeply disturbing and uncomfortable, so warning)
There was a woman he hired as a babysitter, maid or something who accused him of assaulting her in the shower only hours after first meeting him. His response was that they only made out and cuddled!?!?! So he admits that he intruded on an employee while she was bathing, only hours after meeting her, and started doing stuff with her!? Clearly guilty
it's hard for me to "separate the art from the artist" when their real life sins bleed into their art. it's not like he is making art that has nothing to do with the terrible things he's been accused of, because then one can argue that he made his art inside a vacuum or something along those lines. this man wrote a short story about how young women are forever sexualized by society. i personally find it difficult to apply "separating the art from the artist" in the case of this writer.
Exactly!!
True. Im normally big on separating art from the artist (as long as youre buying second hand or by other ways that dont financially support them), but one scenario when I can never look past the artist is when their actions render the central messages of their art hypocritical.
I feel the same way about a lot of Joss Whedon's feminist themed works knowing that he was treating the women under him like dirt while making them or Mcafferty's music which was built around his raw emotional honesty but then he got exposed for being a completely manipulative narcissist.
When one is in such a power-imbalance situation there cannot be true consent. It is clouded by the need for a roof overhead., the need to please the source of one's survival No one who has not experienced this type of relationship -- especially as a boss-employee -- can understand the extent it warps our behavior and outlook of the situation while one is inside of it, the extent of people pleasing that takes place to placate the abuser, the excuses made for their abuse.
Here it is made even worse for his BDSM excess and persistent predator behavior, all wrapped up in "of course she wanted me" mindset, the mindset of a true self-unaware abuser.
I loved Gaiman's work. But he is completely blind to what it is to be without power. He is blind to being the monster.
He turns my stomach now, and I'm sad it has polluted his work in my eyes.
We have all sinned. But this is grievous and even abhorrent, and I will never buy another of his books.
There is a fine line between genius and insanity. Apparently, there is an equally thin line between genius and monster.
late 80's early 90's I was part of a crew that ran a room at sci-fi conventions.
One of the girls in our crew was seriously creeped out by him, that is when we noticed he was behaving like a complete and utter letch.
Never thought it would lead to this. I feel sorry for people who worked with him that might get tainted but were not like that at all. People like Fox, Mary Gentle and PTerry.
It is a shame because he has some wonderful ideas in his stories, whimsical almost, I mean for me there will always be an Angel in Islington that looks like an incarnation of Dr Who.
Terry would be SO angry with Neil....
@@jon-paulfilkins7820 yes, I loved Neverwhere too 😢!
@@charlottesmith3229thank goodness he never lived to see this day. I’m sad the world lost Terry Pratchett, but I’m glad he never had to deal with this reality.
Also as a UK Kid who grew up in the 70's teens in the 80's and 20's in the 90's, this is getting tired, so many, lets not call them hero's, more creatives I admired and work I enjoyed, turning out to be monsters of one way shape and form. I can't even bring myself to ask "First Time?" now.
If you love Neil Gaiman's prose, Tanith Lee is an author that he allegedly plagiarized for The Sandman (specifically from her Tales of the Flat Earth series). Her work predates his and her prose is evocative and masterful. Reading book 1 of Lee's series, you'll see a lot of eerie similarities between her work and Gaiman's. Not to mention, she allegedly expressed sentiments of distrust and dislike toward Gaiman. If you have any thoughts on her work, I'd love to hear them. Also, may the women who Gaiman hurt and abused find justice, and may it be swift.
I love her work. The Blood of Roses is a masterpiece.
My daughter told me a little of his evil behaviour and I got rid of all his books and I’m done. I hope he is held accountable.😮
Even if he, legally speaking, is innocent, it's still bespoke of a truly shit person. Even if conesnt was given, it's still dubious, when the power difference between the two people is so large, especially if one depends on the other for a living. Not to mention, how creepy it is for a 60 year old man to come onto an 18 old girl. With or without consent. There simply is no defending these actions.
As for his works, I think as usual, to each their own is the best policy. Cutting ties with him, if his actions are too much for you is to be applauded, but it's also possible to rake the objectivley poitive messages from his works, and use them for yourselves. It's okay to stop reading Gaiman, and it's also okay to keep reading Gaiman.
The important thing is to not ignore the victims, and choose our actions with awareness. And of course to be kind to eachother. He might be a shit human, but reading his works won't suddenly make people any worse.
Womp womp womp
Yeah, I think the same... he is creepy, regardless if allegations are true or not. His reaction was bad 😢
The only Neil Gailman story I'm familiar with is the Coraline movie, but I consider Henry Selic now the sole creator, since it does stray from it's source material.
Separating the art from the artist is probably easy for some since they're not his victim. I can't imagine how horrible in must be if your abuser is famous or popular and hear them being praised for their work or see their name on bookshelves in shops.
Thank you for centering the true victims even while acknowledging how it can be difficult for readers/fans who are now feeling sick to their stomachs. I’m with you-art cannot be separated from the artist when promoting, buying, and otherwise positively engaging with that art directly increases the power that the monstrous artist uses to victimize more people (and yes, financial power was a huge influence in many of the stories his victims came forward with).
Being a good writer and being a good person are two different things. In our culture, we exalt these people who happen to be actors, sports figures, models, authors, etc for no real reason other than their jobs. You don't know them as a person only from their work. I've always thought this was such an odd thing to do. This is why actors who are known for a certain character, like say a 🧛♂️ will be often asked in public to bite their fan. 😏 Yeah, vampires are not real. 🤨 And has Covid taught us nothing?! 😂
Buy his books used from now on. He won’t get paid and you can still enjoy the art.
I saw a video this morning about how some of his works were actually pretty telling. The confinement and rape of the muse Calliope in The Sandman series is beyond gross on it's own but now with what we know... wow.
I listened to his writing lectures, his interviews, his graduation speech. I made my senior thesis off this man's writing. I once dreamed I could collaborare with him to take his Lovecraftian Sherlock story and make it into some kind of serial franchise, like what he'd done with Lucifer. I'd also heard whispers that he let students and amateurs use his shortfiction on the cheap for their projects and had a piece picked out from Smoke and Mirrors to become a one-act play. I'm glad those dreams weren't to be.
The actions he's admitted to are already to far for me to collaborate without some caustic mix of distance and desperation. Using your fans the way he's confessed to is about as likely to go well as I am to make an edible fruitcake. And the acts he's alleged to have done put him on the pedestal of worst-behaving authors I have ever known.
My only comfort is that his stories don't have to belong to him. Fiction is one of those things I believe should belong to the public - at least past the short-term - and prose fiction is the sphere of fiction closest to that dream. I don't need his permission to tell a tale of Watson in the Nameless City or of Holmes drowning nightmares of Cthulhu with a sampling of Opium. His own creations - his Death, his Dream, his Wednesday and his Coraline - may be his until he dies. But Death, Odin, Dream and Riding Hood are beyond the grasp of monsters like him. If only all stories were free from their monsters before they were forgotten.
Separating the art from the artist is perfectly fine... with caveats.
1. The artist in question is just horrible or unpleasant in person but not an actual criminal, especially of that nature.
2. Any art people owned prior to the accusations (and apparent guilt?) is free of any "taint" IMO. Any new art, on the other hand, is untouchable.
The separate the art from the artist thing should always come with the caveat: If you can. And either way, it is a personal thing. No one should be looking at and judging others for how they handle this. I tend to be able to separate them, but not always. And that inconsistency is also valid, because it is mine. I haven't begun to process how his work will fall for me - I am so disheartened right now, and so disgusted with him. My heart goes out to those women.
Interesting post from JK Rowling. The only reason I can think of as to why a "muted" reaction from the literary crowd is that, at least in the good ol' US of A, is that we're all exhausted from being outraged. Outrage has almost been a constant. So to see this story on Gaiman, maybe people just shake their heads sadly and quietly clean out their shelves... I don't know, just a guess
Exhausted by outrage is exactly how I feel. Of all the creatives who have been exposed as terrible people, Gaiman’s exposure was the most impactful for me. Something died in me when I read the first headline and I don’t think it will recover.
@@Law1107Same. It broke my heart. 😔
Rowling merely highlighted the fact that people only pretend to care when it is politically convenient. Ouch.
I agree, Weinstein was the start of the 'Me Too' movement proper, so he got our outrage at full energy, at this point we are all just exhausted and desensitised to the horrific things people we thought were good have done. There isn't a lot of outrage over anyone doing horrible things any more, it is just kind of expected... which is terrible.
@@eternal_napalm6442 She's not exactly one to talk, though being a TERF and all (and plenty problematic even without that, though it took most people years to notice). At the very least she's heavily contributed to the outrage exhaustion herself, and at worst... Well see the TERF bit. But none of this erases how horrible this situation is, especially for the victims.
Appreciate you being able to be open and honest about this topic. It's not something anyone ever wants to discuss, but for the reasons you brought up, it's an unfortunate necessity. While we may not always agree as a community on many things, I would hope we can all agree that behavior like this is not acceptable. And no matter how genius and creative you are, it does not make up for behaving like a monster. I strongly believe in the power of redemption, but at the same time, it's incredibly difficult to come back from something like this. In my mind, there is no greater evil than destorying the life of another, whether that's physically or mentally. I hope the women--and ALL who've suffered similar experiences--find some way to heal moving forward.
I loved his work. In all honesty I don’t think I will read any of the TBR books I had of him. I will give them to charity.
There’s plenty of other authors out there with amazing stories that are just as insightful.
Sad times indeed 😢
Will you give them to charity so that the rape fairies will come to threaten and terrify others?? Shame on you!! You can’t just put the juju from an ouija board back into the ouija board from where it came!! Haven’t you ever seen “Poltergeist” and “The Video Dead”??!!
I don't even think you can give them away. Then you're just potentially spreading his influence
Gaiman isn't the first author to exhibit problematic behavior and he will undoubtedly not be the last; it is up to the individual reader/consumer to decide whether the artist's work is worth engaging with despite the troubling origin. Carroll & Alice in Wonderland immediately comes to mind with regards to separating the source from the creative result.
But it's so lazy not to consider the work within the context it was written. At that point, you're just trying to justify liking a story
What context? The accusations surrounding Carroll were controversies even at the time, and for the same reasons.
I don't know how to separate the art from the artist 😭😭😭😭
Just like some people have separated J. K. Rowling has been separated from Harry Potter.
Just don’t buy new gaiman books, buy them used
Pirate his books. Or buy his used books.
@@vincaalkaloids6732but J. K. is right
I hope you can one day.
If you dig deep into personal lives of famous artists, you will find a lot of darkness. Dostoevsky was a horrible person, addicted, gambler, antisemitic, all sorts of disgusting sins. Lovecraft was a hardcore racist. Christopher Marlowe was a murderer and traitor. The list can be continued. If Neil Gaiman is guilty of what he is accused off, does this changed the fact that he wrote some great books? If we collect those books and burn them all, will it bring justice to his alleged victims? I don't know. Right now it's a fresh wound, so everyone is emotional. But you can't escape the fact, that the books are great. They WILL remain even when their author will be long-dead.
For me it's a familiar topic, as I was born in the USSR and was raised while listening to the lot of Soviet/Russian rock bands and musicians, some of which are now working for the Putin's propaganda, supporting the war and mass-murder. It's disgusting, and as of now, those bands and musicians don't exist for me anymore. But I still listen to the songs that I've been listening when I was 18.
I think we need to serve justice to the person, not the art. But it will take time to comprehend I guess.
Cool it with Dostoevsky. Nothing he did is comparable to what Gaiman is accused of.Lovecraft was a mentally ill recluse who spent all his life in a house terrified of the outside world. He actually harmed nobody. Marlowe lived 400 years ago, not something one really connects emotionally or even mentally with. Better compare him to Marion Zimmer Bradley. Would you let a child abuser, SAer and supporter of pdffiles tell you about feminism? If you would, good for you, but not all situations were created equal. And this from someone who was a lifelong Gaiman fan, and supports people dealing with his relationship with his works however they see fit. If he is innocent, then good for him. Hope he sues. But from his lifestyle and priorities alone this is a person I can't respect, and that I respected his mind was a huge part of the appeal of his books for me.
@@kostantza1 As I said, I'm living in this hell of forcefully judging people who's art I used to love or even my former friends for three years now, since the start of the full scale war in Ukraine. Do you know how it feels when you childhood friend, or an musician who was your idol throughout all of your childhood is turned out to be a Putin's fascist, who openly call to kill as many Ukrainians as possible? And on the other hand, my other friends and even relatives are getting bombed and killed in Ukrain by the peopIe, who I used to trust and love. I understand your anger and pain about this Gaiman situation, but for me now it seem so far away... So maybe you will forgive me my probably inappropriately light judgement.
@@nikhein I don't have to forgive you anything. You are entitled to your feelings. I don't even know how I'll deal with the works I've let shape me and led me into one of my life's love and hobbies.I'm sorry for what you're going through - hope you and your family are ok, and this war ends soon in your favour. Don't think I've not also gotten infinitely disappointed in the last few years, once it became clear how many people I admired were either completely immoral, pathetic, or just dumb, though I don't purport to compare what you feel to that. Someone said somewhere else that he wrote what he wrote, but how you took and shaped his work inside you is all you. Maybe this attitude will help.If it came across as me condemning people still reading him, it wasn't my intention at all. I was just pointing out some practical differences. Dead authors are much, much better after all. You know what you get from the beginning.
@@kostantza1 We're safe, thank you. I'm living in a nice small European country, which was lucky enough to get totally rid of the Soviet legacy after the monster died. But I still have connections both in Russia and Ukraine, and that's... Insanely hard. Sometimes I think about how my life could have turned and whom I would have become if I wasn't born and live all my life in Estonia, but in Russia... And honestly, I have no idea. And that's scary.
As for the artists and writers and connection between their personalities and legacy... You right, of course, about it being easier with those long dead. That's why I treat every such case (well, if proven of course. You can't be sure of anything these days) as them being dead already. That's just my way to deal with this dilemma. The person dies, the books, art, movies (oh those movie directors! so many evil geniuses among them) stays. But that's just my way.
@@nikhein Hey, it's just as valid a way as any.If we didn't read problematic people's work, our libraries would be much smaller after all, and in the end, as long as they help even one person, their works are the good part of them that remains. I'll have to see how I'll deal with something that was so personal to me - I'd drifted away because I felt him becoming faker and faker, but that wouldn't make me rethink his older works the way I inevitably now will. Oh well. In other news, I very much want to visit Estonia - it's a very beautiful country. Hope your family in both sides is safe, and this new years is better than the one before :)
I hear you. I've been a fan of his for near 30 years and I too got to see him speak. But these last few months, and especially the last two days have made him a repulsive figure in my eyes. Sigh...but there are other writers/creatives out there. As for any NG books I had, well, they've pretty much all gone to the local charity shops.
I donated mine as well.
@@EmlynBoyle I might end up chucking mine. I probably will keep my signed copy of stardust because it was a gift from a friend and my illustrated Good Omens to support the presumably completely innocent illustrator (plus Terry Prachett), but I'm close to binning the rest next time I clean out my closet.
Never read a book by him...maybe now I won't start.
Me neither 😊
@@ChanyeolsHaneul Separate the art from the artist. He might be a bad man, but he has written good books, and I see no reason why you should miss out on them because the author is a bad person.
Just make sure you don't pay him for those if you start.
@TheMagicSkelli I never had an interest in his books. The only time is easy to separate art from artist is when the writer is already death for a very long time, like at least 20 years before I born.
If I disagree with the opinion of a living writer I may still read their books but if they are criminals I lose all desires to do so.
@TheMagicSkelli Keep in mind some of the depravity has leaked into his work. The constant rape of a character in Sandman in order inspire creativity is a little close for comfort
I do not consider myself a Gaiman fan, as I have only read 2 of his books: American Gods (which I hated) and Ocean at the End of the Lane (which I loved), so my thoughts on him as an author were literally 50/50. I was planning on reading more of his work, however I will not be doing so now. I do want to say however, that the "regular" book people in the literary community have been far from silent. Numerous pages I follow have had to have more heavy moderation because they are so heated. However, from what I can tell in my corner of Booktube, a lot of influencers have been silent. Daniel Greene did address it in Fantasy News and stated that he would not be covering it because it is just so heavy and it goes beyond his scope of the content he creates. But I respect him for at least acknowledging that it is beyond him and he is with the victims. I am also glad that you are addressing it and making your stance be known that you will no longer be promoting his books. I think booktubers choosing to be silent right now is as bad (or worse than) the apologists. I realize the vulture article just came out 2 days ago, so I am hoping that other creators have some type of response in the works, but the allegations started back in July. Why has everyone taken so long to respond? The only thing I can think of is that the news stories and any details were very difficult to find and the details you could find were vague and limited at best. Obviously, that has massively changed with the release of the Vulture article, so I'm hoping that the booktube radio silence will too.
I'm done with him and all his works
I feel like I'm heavily involved in booktube and fantasy Fandom groups and I only started hearing about this maybe 2 days ago? I'm not making excusing for anyone but I was shocked that this was old news just coming out. I do think powerful people have connections to suppress stories until someone independent makes a stink and it become viral.
@@Theblondebass1 I heard about in some facebook groups that are primarily fantasy. Honestly, other than Daniel's comment and now Johan's video, I haven't seen it at all on booktube
@jax426nd now we know! This is whole situation makes me feel my skin crawl. For relatively minor opinions I prefer to not know too much about authors but for heinous crimes I want to know so I can vote with my wallet and not support them. Makes me sad. Feel like it can't possibly be that hard to be an mediocre to ok person, so to abuse fans and woman in this way there is no excuse.
@Theblondebass1 I 100% agree! That's why I rarely deep dive into authors. But if something is significant enough that it violates someone's basic human rights and could even result in prison time, I absolutely want to know!
I tried reading "neverwhere" and "american gods" and couldn't finish either one. I just don't see his appeal, i guess...
i personally think it's very hard to separate the art from the artist, since the art is a result of the artist's personality. for instance, van gogh wouldn't have painted the way he did, if he was a secure and cheerful poeple pleaser. miyazaki wouldn't have created the films he did if he spent a lot more time with his family. every artist is driven by what's in their heart/mind... by what compels them. therefore i think you cannot separate one from the other. this is not a judgement of good vs bad. or right vs wrong. i'm only saying the artist and the art are intrinsically linked. (therse are just my thoughts. i don't claim them to be facts)
Not a fan of Gaiman, but I went through this years ago with my favourite tween author, David Eddings. I love reading books written by people with different ideas and political views, and I don't expect artists to be saints, but when it's abuse of the vilest kind, man, I can't. Seeing the books on my shelf made me feel so sad for his victims. I threw them out.
If you want to read a similar author, try Diana Wynne Jones. They were actually close friends before she died. Her books like Dogsbody (which Neil Gaiman actually wrote the introduction to), Fire & Hemlock, and The Time of The Ghost share a lot of his whimsy, which I'm starting to realize is most prominently found in middle grade stories. DWJ has given me that same magical childhood feeling you describe at the start. So if you want some books to read that could possibly give you that same whimsy while you grapple with losing your favorite author...she's a great substitute. (lol I didn't get to the point in the video where DWJ was mentioned on Reddit when I commented this, but my opinion still stands. She's great.)
Also this is all wild and I had no idea it was happening until finding your video....Actually, I thought this video would be about him killing off characters or something much more lighthearted and silly to earn the title "monster"...I never in a million years thought he'd be capable of something like this. I agree about cutting out his books altogether...It's too hard to separate the art from the artist when something this horrific is a factor.
I share your sentiments almost completely, I used to love his works so much and will have to mourn the works as I can’t separate this one
His new work is radioactive to me. I won't read his new books. I won't watch new seasons of his shows. I've had his old books for so long, that they feel like they're mine. I will not let him steal my memories from me.
That shows once again how common the naivety of black and white thinking still is. A lot of people still think in terms of "how could it be the same person?", when history has shown us time and time again many examples of either "good" people doing bad things, or "bad" people doing good.
JK Rowling got bullied for stating facts. 😅....jeez.
I've been doing the same the last few days trying to come to terms with it all and how I feel about reading his work, like I have about four books in shelves still to be read but like a book I read last year called 'Monster: A fan's Dilemma' about consuming art to find out it's created by an artist who's done some terrible things and that its very individual whether you can feel okay with continuing to consume that artists work and even dare I say enjoy it. For me one of the chapters mentioned that their biography stains their work and for me this is exactly that I won't want to read his works now because what he has done to those women is unspeakable and has left a mark I can't remove. I appreciate you sharing this video and highlighting how you feel. He's an vile man.
Why is it that so often the brightest and most creative minds also go down some of the darkest and most inexplicable paths?
I’m curious to see how this progresses legally. I read some articles when the news first broke but I haven’t read anything more recently like the Vulture article you noted.
Boredom maybe
Boredom along with power getting to their head. They have some extremely loose morals as well and narcissism.
They start believing that people who they view are beneath them can be used for whatever they wish and discarded. That they don't matter beside on how to use.
This is a major issue plaguing many of the celebrities, world leaders and politicians, and ultra wealthy people of our world. Stuff like this is normalized and even encouraged in that space.
It saddens me greatly that Gaimen is one of these scumbags.
it doesn't help that his parents were part of scientology and abusive (the dad) as well
What a great video, as always -
well I have been reading Neil Gaiman since the 80s and yes he is one of the best writers out there loved his prose esp. on the Sandman books, now I always thought he was a good guy but yah everyone has a skeleton in his closet and like Bill Cosby I did not know it was this bad. I would say seperate the author from his books, but its hard to do for many people, and true me also his writing is so good and personal that I really was shocked that he turned out this way
5:15. "A collective grieving process"?? Wow! Hemingway!
Thank God my favorite author is JRR Tolkien
We can’t even say innocent until proven guilty because he hasn’t been charged.
There are undoubtedly many cases of real abuse, but there are also numerous instances of wrongful accusations. Unfortunately, the public has increasingly taken on the role of judge, jury, and executioner, often disregarding the very laws designed to prevent hasty judgments and ensure justice. This video is a perfect example of everything wrong with this dynamic.
To be clear, I’m not defending Gaiman. If he’s guilty, he should absolutely face the consequences for his actions. This discussion isn’t even about the often-debated idea of separating the artist from the person. After all, the person behind the art is someone you’ve likely never met-you only know the work they’ve created and what it means to you. That’s what you admire, not the individual themselves.
The problem lies in the public's reaction, which often stems from idolization, romanticization, and misplaced fanaticism. This video, along with its comment section and the emotional responses it has provoked, exemplifies how irrational and personal these reactions can become.
We don’t need to argue about “separating” the artist from the person or trivialize serious accusations. As adults, we can recognize and accept reality for what it is. I can continue to enjoy Gaiman’s art while also acknowledging the gravity of the crimes he is accused of-if they are proven true. At the end of the day, it’s your personal choice whether to become emotionally attached to someone you’ve never met.
Let's promote rationality instead and not letting emotions dictate judgment.
@@ericp1552 Well said.
Interesting comment. I tend to agree. The only thing I have an issue with, concerning living authors/artist, is when consuming their work means directly rewarding them with money from buying their work - even if it’s the work you appreciate, even if you’re not emotionally attached to the person you’ve never met, it still feels somehow wrong. Even though most of it goes to the publishing house. Somehow, I don’t have this issue so much when, say, consuming films where some actors (or producers) have been known to have done monstrous acts. So how to approach that? Though I guess this is at least a more rational conversation to be had…
THIS. You put into words my biggest complaint with all these “breaking news” videos we’re seeing. This hasn’t even gone to trial. We’re taking someone’s accusation, believing them at face value, and already deciding someone’s future. It’s insane, but regardless of what I feel in my heart or what I believe, I still believe in fair trial.
@sarah.emmanuelle Second hand book stores do not contribute to author royalties as far as I know.
I agree with you too, and I’m kinda having paranoid about some scandals as if they were completely false to ruin someone’s reputation, but that’s not my job to investigate or put label “criminal” without proper proof from court.
To me whole thing to separate art from artist seems logical, but it’s not a choice to feel smth, logic doesn’t apply to emotions.
But again, you did a very well put together post
Thank you so much for this video. Grief seems to be the word that best describes what I'm feeling right now.
Me too. His work was so inspiring, now it feels like my safe place has been tainted.
I read the article, and yeah, he's a monster. I think you handled this situation well.
You are a monster for believing accusations without proof. You have absolutely no sense of justice if a single article can convince you a man is a criminal when he hasn't even stood trial or there is hard evidence of guilt (e.g a video).
Finally, someone saying it, I've read a good amount, and I would highly agree that he is a creep. But rape is such a strong word, and so is sexual assault. Coercion seems likely, which is still horrible but not the same. Especially as he was in relationships with these women, and he had some harsh sexual tastes that I would never personally agree with, making it more muddled. But justice is justice, innocent until proven guilty. A court trial is necessary here. Monstrous as he may be, many claims haven't been proven, and I don't sit well with that.
Almost like today women is innocent untill proven guilty, and man is guilty untill proven innocent
This is off topic but does anyone know what kind of haircut the library of a viking is rocking because it's great and I'm trying to get the same haircut 😆
Thanks for making this video. I’m having the same struggle. SANDMAN has been either my absolute favorite work of literature or at the very least, in my top three.
And I have often called him my favorite living author.
I mean I will say, he hasn’t been found guilty of anything. These are at this moment allegations. People should take them seriously, but he shouldn’t be declared guilty until he is actually found guilty.
"I refuse to believe that all these women are simply lying". Well done for saying that. Well done for making this entire video.
The artist’s beliefs, values, and biases are the material art is made from. The media is just how the material is turned into a physical form. If the artist is a monster, their art is monstrous. You can enjoy monstrous art, but you have to question what that means about you. You are what you eat.
Untrue. Lots of people write horror without doing horrific things.
Good Omens. (Well, Good Omens the book) Justi ignore gaiman's name on the cover and concentrate on the Pratchett.
I love the tv show so I bought the book a few days ago, i didn't know what happened to him until now. After reading I decided to dive deeper into Terry's works and found out that he had the Discworld series, which is a new discovery! It's a bit overwhelming since there are a lot of books, hopefully I can find a few starters.
Many people whom I looked up to have been cancelled over the time so all I can do is shrug and move on.
@ Guards!Guards! Is a good jumping on point. Many people advise against the first two in the series, Colour of Magic and Light Fantastic because they’re far from the best.
What a wonderful journey you have before you 🤩 So many unique characters and witty footnotes 💛 the Discworld series is a treasure
There are authors whose works I've loved that, if I heard such things about them, I would immediately dismiss them as ridiculous, because the mind that created those works is not compatible with the actions described. I've loved Neil Gaiman's works. But putting these allegations next to the mind that created those works, the allegations are easy to believe. He's very good at portraying charismatic darkness. Shocking, but not surprising. His life must be miserable, glory and riches notwithstanding. May justice be done, and may God forgive him.
My heart really goes out to those he's abused and manipulated. It also goes out to those that were a fan and cherished this work and felt like they had found a kindred soul. For some reason this betrayal does seem more personal to me and many other readers. After listening to the podcast I was in two minds about keeping his book. Now having read this harrowing article I cannot bare to see the books that are now scattered and hidden all over my room. I only hope that these women's voices are heard and that a court case will be soon to follow.
From what i understand, the only reason Rowling didn't see her contemporaries calling out Gaiman, was because those contemporaries have her blocked. Call-outs apparently did happen, she just couldn't physically see them.
Inexcusable actions that I'll forever hold him accountable for. His stories, however, are works of art i will appreciate and revisit tirelessly.
How many stories do we cherish that have been written by monsters that were never revealed?
You're giving yourself an excuse for continuing to support a monster by creating an imaginary what-if scenario about all other artists. If Gaiman had assaulted someone you love would you still treasure those books?
Separate the art from the artist
@@CarlaBaku Nobody is forcing his victims to read his work,and nobody can force anyone else not to. There are ways to read him without giving him money. It's not your place to police how someone else deals with it. Reading alone is not supporting.
@@CarlaBaku It’s not a ‘what-if’ - many great writers actually did worse than what Gaiman is accused of.
Whenever I read my favorite books, the back part of my mind is seeing the author...wondering how they chose the words...where the characters came from ... what life experience the author had to bring forth this wonderful book.
I don't think, actually I'm quite certain that I can't separate the art from the artist because now it will be a monster standing over my shoulder casting an unholy shadow over the words. I will be boxing up the books and stashing them. It probably will be the first time that there will truly be a monster under my bed.
How sad...and I am certain, ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE, that Terry Pratchett never knew. Good Omens stays on my book shelf. Pratchett's goodness overshadows Gaiman. He always did.
The first round was enough for me. I haven't read and won't bother to read the latest round, I already decided back then I'm done with him.
Everyone talking about „separating the art from the artist“ this has been a debate since the dawn of time and honestly it’s such a grey zone. Why is Wagner still popular when he was massively antisemitic, which was present in his works? Personally I won’t be able to read any of Gaimans books ever again, however, I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong if people read his works as long as no money or support goes towards him, so pirate it bare minimum
Can't you people wait for the trial? Do you even know what allegations are? What if this happened to you? jeez...
Go back to your incel forums.
@PutonaChicFace that's rude, person was legit being real about the situation
Separating the art from the artist is important … but when an artist actually victimizes other people on this kind of personal level, that’s a line I cannot cross. Also, I see a few comments here saying basically “innocent until proven guilty” but these comments are missing the point. This is not a formal trial, there likely never will be because we have only hearsay evidence and no smoking gun … but like you said not all these women could be lying and their stories corroborate each other. It requires a special kind of ignorance and lack of common sense to ignore that at this point.
I think this is something as a society that we are in the process of figuring out how to deal with: when an artist you love turns out to behave so badly. It's easier to separate the art from the artist when the artist is dead, but when they're still alive, it's different. And fiction by definition creates emotional responses in us, which is why people feel so deeply, personally connected to books they love and to the writers who wrote them. So I think it's quite natural to feel betrayed - in a way that with, perhaps Weinstein, it's a little more distant. But a writer like Gaiman (or JK Rowling with her rampant transphobia) or a musician like Michael Jackson, it just hits so much more personally. The grief is real, but I don't know yet how to process that either as an individual or as a community of fans. If someone that I actually knew behaved like that, there would be an actual relationship with them that could be renegotiated. Like, say a family member committed a heinous crime, I could say, "I hate what you did but I'll still take care of your kids or visit you in jail," or whatever. But with an artist, we only have a relationship with them through their content, and how can that be renegotiated other than no longer consuming the content or promoting them? I just don't know.
Imagine comparing Rowling who has done nothing more than stand up for the rights of women and girls to rapists and sexual abusers? You can disagree with her but to put her in the same group as the men you have listed is ridiculous.
@@stewartlaw9382 She's not standing up for girls and women. She is spewing hate and attacking women - cis as well as trans. It's not the same as rape, no. But it's still hateful and harmful and is tainting her legacy.
You said everything on this highly difficult subject so eloquently and I applaud you for your honesty. I like some of his books, not all. I have not decided what to do long term, but I won't buy any more of his books, I will not promote his works and definitely taking a long break from reading any. I believe each person will be dealing with it in their own way. As I come from a much older person's POV, never idolize someone. Do not put them on a pedestal, regardless of what positive influence they had on your life, because they are not Gods. They are human, with skeletons in their closets and they are strangers. Even the Gods were flawed. I felt this way with Marion Zimmer Bradley, being a fan of the Darkover books, then finding out about both her and her husband. I felt the same with Bill Cosby, whom so many of us grew up watching his shows and loving him, only to find out he, too, followed a pattern and was a serial rapist. Saying we were all shocked is an understatement. My prayers to the victims and to those who put far too much trust and praise into a highly flawed human being.
creative genius- I always felt like he ripped off Clive Barker
I think Kit Whitfield is the OP of the thread I saw saying that Sandman was *definitely* ripping off Tanith Lee's Tales from the Flat Earth
@@djadelaney People who've read both confirmed he's not.
Well said. Thanks for addressing the topic 👏🏼
This reminds me of author Philip K Dick. While he writes some really great stories especially in the sci-fi genre, that are popular with Hollywood and the modern Gnostic movement. But in his personal life he was a monster as well. His treatment of women was also abusive. Not sexually, but physically and mentally. He abused his third wife Anne Williams Rubinstein and had her committed. And later he tried to kill another woman Grania Davis, luckily she was able to get away and eventually and moved to a different part of CA to live out her life.
Hahah ngl, not excusing his behaviour towards women the only reason why I love PKD and the only reason any of his work is interesting to me is because he was a deranged addict.
Neil Gaiman is done. Having said that, my Sandman volumes stay on the shelf. Those artists who gave life to his words had nothing to do with this mess and I'm always partial to the drawings when it comes to comics anyway.
Last summer I wanted to read a Gaiman novel for the first time. It was on my TBR and it was going to be my next read. Then I read the news about him and I can't bring myself to read one of his books now.
I really appreciate this video. I've been watching you for a while and noticed the Gaiman recommendations. I think it's so important as a creator to adress this. Thank you so much.
I don't know whether this stuff is true or not and I don't read his books so it doesn't matter as much to me.
But I will say, the fact he's a self-proclaimed feminist is what's the biggest red flag and makes me inclined to believe the allegations are true.
I still think that "The Sandman" is an incredible story and one of my favorite comic stories of all time. Even after all these things i will still complete my collection of those comics. I also struggle with him being such an asshole. But when i read the "The Sandman" i tend to feel more with the characters in the comic itself and i can mostly ignore what the author has done. I will never forget it and will forever hate him for waht he has done, but i still want to love his works seperate from his being. And that is what i am trying to do. Love the worlds he created, but hate the person behnd it. The same goes, at least for me, for Rowling. I love the world she has build around Harry Potter mostly, but i do not like her as a person. There are other examples of authors, who are horrible beings and created interesting and fantastical worlds. It is difficult to seperate the authors with their work, but i do tend to do it more often nowadays.
I have recently been given to understand that Gaiman also ripped off large swathes of Tanith Lee's Tales from the Flat Earth for Sandman, so if you're a grieving Sandman fan maybe reading some Tanith Lee would help 🧡
To be clear, I don't _think_ he has been found guilty, but has been accussed by quite a few women. So the court of public opinion has nailed him for sure, but it is possible he is not guilty. ie: Due process and all that, so lets be cautious until its judged. FWIW you should probably put 'allegedly' before a lot of your statements, so you're not exposed to risk. (I'm thinking Brian D Greene had a bunch of allegedly prefixed to cover himself after getting in trouble?)
Lol
I only been introduced to Neil Gaiman when I came across Coraline back in middle school in Japan.
And then I seek out American Gods because I'm such a mythology nerd.
But hearing stories like these...well, I don't think I should seek out more of his works...
Even though there is a case for separating an author's work (or musician, artist, poet, actor, etc) from their personal lives, it's not always that simple. This is why it is said that one shouldn't meet one's idols because they will most likely have feet of clay. I feel horrible about all this because Neil Gaiman has always been one of my favorite authors and his work has always seemed so pure and inspiring. I hope he feels as bad as we all do.
So many books and so little time! Here's to some great reading in 2025! Best wishes.
"Gaiman has publicly denied all allegations of non-consensual sexual activity. In a blog post, he expressed horror and dismay at the claims, stating, "I have never engaged in non-consensual sexual activity." He acknowledged being emotionally unavailable and careless in past relationships but maintained that the specific allegations are either false or distorted."
So there's that. And I'm not a fan of the man's work. I never thought it was very good. What I AM a fan of, however, is "innocent until proven guilty", ESPECIALLY with not very credible SA allegations against men in Gaiman's position. Go look at the long and ever growing list of prominent men targeted with false accusations. If you're not familiar with it, go look at what happened with the allegations, charges and eventual court case against a Canadian broadcaster named Jian Ghomeshi. Distasteful? Yes. But people should not be prosecuted and have their lives and careers ruined just because someone SAYS they did something. At what point are you people going to learn this basic lesson?
He himself said in the past that we all should believe a women when accuse someone, so... I choose to believe her.
I always wait to cast judgement until after accusations have been proven true.
Vast majority of grape accusation are truthful and the vast majority of predators never get in charged or given prison time. Would this be different for prominent men?
@@americasteam2112 But vast majority doesn't mean every time right? You can know allegations are legitimate until they're prove so.
@@americasteam2112 that's actually false, the vast majority of Sexual assault crimes are not truthful especially when money is involved.
It's amazing that anyone is still surprised by the behavior of these people. Learn from thousands of years of history and current affairs.