Damn, this is good stuff. Completely demystifies what jazz players are doing when soloing over chords with different notes. And now I also know what to call the sound of Gankino Horo other than "You know, like Gankino Horo."
7:43 i love how you started this series by talking about how philosophy and the scientific method brought you to this-then that setup was paid off here by making a prediction based off the theory and finding it in the wild. That song was like Darwin's predicted moth in Madagascar lol 🙃
Well, we're are getting a little heady for a self-taught backwoods guitar picker such as myself (!), but I think this is an excellent series you've put together. Well-presented and insightful. While I tend to think a bit more in terms of modes on common roots, I like the conception of representing these 'parent scales' using only sharps. It makes the underlying structural expansion more obvious. One thing I noticed that makes it a bit easier to conceptualize for someone like myself without a strong theory or music education background is that these can all be conceived as simple tetrachord combinations: 7 TO: 222 Tetrachord + 221 Tetrachord 8 TO: 222 Tetrachord + 121 Tetrachord 9 TO: 312 Tetrachord + 221 Tetrachord 10 TO: 312 Tetrachord + 121 Tetrachord 11 TO: 312 Tetrachord + 211 Tetrachord 12 TO: 212 Tetrachord + 212 Tetrachord all with their resulting modes. So with just six tetrachords (121,211,212,221,222,312) in various combinations, one can roll through all 42 of these possibilities. I am already accustomed to think that way in regards the first four of these since, from a different starting point, they are basically the 28 modes of major, melodic minor, harmonic minor, and harmonic major. The next two, 11 and 12, are a bit more unusual in that they introduce successive half steps, which is not something we typically do in traditional tonal music. In that respect they introduce 14 of the modes from the melakarta that are formed in a similar manner. So there are 48 in total in this 'lydian chromatic concept', which doesn't really get us to the entire 72 that seem mathematically feasible for heptatonic scales, so I am thinking it is a nice middle ground which both covers the familiar bases while also definitely introducing some additional exoticism that is interesting, and which could provide some more 'outside' possibilities, or probably work just fine on their own in more of a drone or organum context. Very cool. Thank you for making the PDF available, especially without putting any hurdles in the way. I hesitate to mention it at all, but since you seem a fastidious thinker: the sheet does appear to have a typo in it where the numbering of the scales is given as 7,8,9,9,10,11 instead of the seemingly more probable 7,8,9,10,11,12 (unless I am misunderstanding something). In any case, this is a really excellent series that presents a framework for thinking about music that is new to me and quite interesting. Thank you!
I'm glad my brain isn't the only one that breaks it into groupings of tetrachords! It makes it so much easier for me to wrap my head around and visualize on the keyboard once I memorize the different groups.
@@JohnMBK Yup, I do more guitar than keyboard, but 'four fingers, three spaces between the fingers' still applies and helps me a lot. I have found that I never fully develop a facility with a lot of these things until I can break the information down into pretty small chunks that I can actually apply on an instrument. Later, maybe, I can build bigger structures out of the small pieces, but in between tetrachords help, and I need all the help I can get! ;-}
Thanks, this is very interesting! I'll have to dive deeper into the tetrachord approach as it relates to the LCC, and your explanation is a good place to start! In the PDF, those numbers represent the tonal orders, and I included two scales for the 9 tone order because both Lydian #2 (Harmonic minor) and Lydian #2 #5 (Harmonic major/Lydian Diminished) are worth examining, and they both exist within the 9 tone order. I didn't include the 12 tone order because the chromatic scale doesn't map easily on a seven mode chart and because I think the half whole diminished scale is better thought of as a mode of whole half diminished rather than a 12 tone order scale. Thanks for your thoughts!
@@RidgewoodSchoolofMusic Ah... thanks for clarifying the basis for the numbering. I'll have to run back and go over this again to make sure I got it. Thanks!
Thanks for the video and sharing your new ideas. Interesting your proposed revision of tonal ordering. In the video, what did u use for the 12th TO? Half whole diminished? Is there any other heptatonic non-cluster possibility?
I basically abandoned the heptatonic structure and just tried to play chromatics, trying to get a b2 in there to establish the 12 tone order. In traditional LCC the 12TO scale would be half whole diminished, but I feel like I always hear that as an 11TO mode of whole half diminished.
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Damn, this is good stuff. Completely demystifies what jazz players are doing when soloing over chords with different notes.
And now I also know what to call the sound of Gankino Horo other than "You know, like Gankino Horo."
7:43 i love how you started this series by talking about how philosophy and the scientific method brought you to this-then that setup was paid off here by making a prediction based off the theory and finding it in the wild. That song was like Darwin's predicted moth in Madagascar lol 🙃
very fun keeping up with this series !
Well, we're are getting a little heady for a self-taught backwoods guitar picker such as myself (!), but I think this is an excellent series you've put together. Well-presented and insightful. While I tend to think a bit more in terms of modes on common roots, I like the conception of representing these 'parent scales' using only sharps. It makes the underlying structural expansion more obvious.
One thing I noticed that makes it a bit easier to conceptualize for someone like myself without a strong theory or music education background is that these can all be conceived as simple tetrachord combinations:
7 TO: 222 Tetrachord + 221 Tetrachord
8 TO: 222 Tetrachord + 121 Tetrachord
9 TO: 312 Tetrachord + 221 Tetrachord
10 TO: 312 Tetrachord + 121 Tetrachord
11 TO: 312 Tetrachord + 211 Tetrachord
12 TO: 212 Tetrachord + 212 Tetrachord
all with their resulting modes.
So with just six tetrachords (121,211,212,221,222,312) in various combinations, one can roll through all 42 of these possibilities.
I am already accustomed to think that way in regards the first four of these since, from a different starting point, they are basically the 28 modes of major, melodic minor, harmonic minor, and harmonic major.
The next two, 11 and 12, are a bit more unusual in that they introduce successive half steps, which is not something we typically do in traditional tonal music. In that respect they introduce 14 of the modes from the melakarta that are formed in a similar manner.
So there are 48 in total in this 'lydian chromatic concept', which doesn't really get us to the entire 72 that seem mathematically feasible for heptatonic scales, so I am thinking it is a nice middle ground which both covers the familiar bases while also definitely introducing some additional exoticism that is interesting, and which could provide some more 'outside' possibilities, or probably work just fine on their own in more of a drone or organum context.
Very cool.
Thank you for making the PDF available, especially without putting any hurdles in the way.
I hesitate to mention it at all, but since you seem a fastidious thinker: the sheet does appear to have a typo in it where the numbering of the scales is given as 7,8,9,9,10,11 instead of the seemingly more probable 7,8,9,10,11,12 (unless I am misunderstanding something).
In any case, this is a really excellent series that presents a framework for thinking about music that is new to me and quite interesting. Thank you!
I'm glad my brain isn't the only one that breaks it into groupings of tetrachords! It makes it so much easier for me to wrap my head around and visualize on the keyboard once I memorize the different groups.
@@JohnMBK Yup, I do more guitar than keyboard, but 'four fingers, three spaces between the fingers' still applies and helps me a lot. I have found that I never fully develop a facility with a lot of these things until I can break the information down into pretty small chunks that I can actually apply on an instrument. Later, maybe, I can build bigger structures out of the small pieces, but in between tetrachords help, and I need all the help I can get! ;-}
Thanks, this is very interesting! I'll have to dive deeper into the tetrachord approach as it relates to the LCC, and your explanation is a good place to start! In the PDF, those numbers represent the tonal orders, and I included two scales for the 9 tone order because both Lydian #2 (Harmonic minor) and Lydian #2 #5 (Harmonic major/Lydian Diminished) are worth examining, and they both exist within the 9 tone order. I didn't include the 12 tone order because the chromatic scale doesn't map easily on a seven mode chart and because I think the half whole diminished scale is better thought of as a mode of whole half diminished rather than a 12 tone order scale. Thanks for your thoughts!
@@RidgewoodSchoolofMusic Ah... thanks for clarifying the basis for the numbering. I'll have to run back and go over this again to make sure I got it. Thanks!
Thanks for the video and sharing your new ideas. Interesting your proposed revision of tonal ordering. In the video, what did u use for the 12th TO? Half whole diminished? Is there any other heptatonic non-cluster possibility?
I basically abandoned the heptatonic structure and just tried to play chromatics, trying to get a b2 in there to establish the 12 tone order. In traditional LCC the 12TO scale would be half whole diminished, but I feel like I always hear that as an 11TO mode of whole half diminished.
@@RidgewoodSchoolofMusic and what do u use for the 12th TO?
THE PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTAND THIS CAN SEND TO THEIR FRIENDS ,,,, THANKS