Hope you enjoyed the video. Subscribe if you like it. Watch something else from the Semiconductors playlist too: th-cam.com/play/PLKtxx9TnH76QEYXdJx6KyycNGHePJQwWW.html
this is bullshit the ocean is right there, desalination exist....100% propaganda. Water is renewable its a cycle of evaporation, the governments of the world are moving it around with ionization weathering technology
I've learned more about semiconductors from your channel than any other youtube "documentary" video ever. Thanks for sharing your detailed knowledge. Truly a joy to listen to someone talk about their passion.
@@AngryMan666 Ok, I agree that China sucks, but do you have anything to back up the first two claims? That this guy is a propaganda channel and that factories are *not* better than farms?
@@lordofthecats6397 Methinks you need a geography and politics lesson. @Asianometry is produced and run by a Taiwanese gentleman. Perhaps you were unaware that China despises the Taiwanese government and has plans for forcibly taking control of the island of Taiwan. Why would a "China shill" be talking up a country that the Chinese government wants to see destroyed?
I work for a company that produces water quality analyzers including for the semiconductor industry, and I can say, without a doubt, they have by far the most stringent requirements for water purity. Pharma industry requires water that has 500PPB or less of organics in the water, Semiconductor looks for water with far below 1PPB of organics, preferably in single digit PPT range. (PPB=Parts per billion, PPT=Parts per trillion). They are definitely the most difficult industry for producing instruments that can measure their water quality for their requirements.
@@deadeyeduncan5022 you don't understand context. where do you get the impression that he said being informed and being european has anything to do with eachother??? context doesn't mean adding your own shit into it.... but idiots will always defend fellow idiots i guess
I think it could be cheaper for them to pay for water saving measures at other companies to offset their own usage. A steel foundry for example uses up to 50k liters per hour for cooling steal which mostly evaporates. Capturing that steam can create energy while also being used to clean the water. It is expensive so it is slow to get adopted, but if TSMC or someone else offsets the cost everyone benefits.
Sort of like the UN Clean Development Program mechanism worked for carbon. I wonder if this type of mechanism is being used anywhere for water savings as you describe?
Like a "Wate Credit" ? In the same way we do "Carbon Credits" ? That's an interesting idea, I wonder wether there are already such initiative, it seems worth exploring.
Another problem they have had, a least in the past, is the need for clean water, moving to where there is clean water, and then contaminating that water from various industrial practices.
Motorola did that in AZ in the past, as another poster in these comments pointed out. it's hilarious that the same subthread had a fab worker saying "it's because az is environmentally stable ackshually" while just discounting the drought his industry will exacerbate. the real reason they want to go there is because chud politicians like Ducey will cut them sweetheart deals for campaign bribes.
@@NightfallGemini If that were the "real reason" you'd see them looking for politicians who would do the same elsewhere. It's not like AZ is the only place with politicians. And yes, I'm applying the same features to all of them. The exceptions are so rare as not to be worth mentioning. It's ironic how you add "ackshually" when you are doing the same thing.
As the Colorado River experiences decreased flow, server farms and semiconductor manufacturing will continue to displace agriculture and residential usage. In the end, no amount of money can buy water that no longer exists.
Its like oil and fracking, when the demand gets high enough its will incentivize massive nuclear power to conduct electrolysis and massive distillation of Sea water into fresh.
They simply remove from the sea since money can buy it... And if the sea is way too far, well again MONEY buys miles and miles of piping if they want so it's all about money, but since that would increase pricing and at the end who pays is always the customers fuck it.
It might be interesting to think of the national security implications of using farm water for semiconductors in Taiwan. On the one hand, less food means less security as more needs to be imported. On the other hand, more semiconductors means more global reliance on Taiwan.
that is a gap between the taiwan government and the singapore government... not only does singapore solve the water recycling, it also has robust military defence and a population that is willing to defend itself. 30% of taiwan's military are now ghost unit because no one want to join the military. the way taiwan is govern is just too slow, they spend too much time grandstanding and they haven't even address the power shortage issue... denuclearization was the dumbest self-inflicted wound ever... for a few green votes, the government crippled the country's power grid, madness.
@@andro7862 I'm an ignorant idiot, can you please explain Singapore has to do with Taiwans governance? Is it a geopolitics thing? Or is it just a comparison between similar(?) countries?
Your explanation of "why Arizona" did not explain why Arizona was chosen rather than any other state willing to attract the semiconductor industry. You explained how Arizona attracted this industry and why it wanted to rather than why Arizona in particular. I was left thinking the dry state of Arizona was a strange choice.
The simple answer is that Arizona must've cut them the best deal. Tax cuts, promises of land and water, and projected costs of operation all having much more to do with politicians than climate.
Hi! I work in a semiconductor fab. Arizona is environmentally stable and not subject to extreme weather events such as hurricanes. Arizona is close to California, which has been one of the primary drivers of research and innovation and educated workers for decades. Arizona probably has more favorable business regulations than California. Moreover, since there are already several fabs in Arizona, the infrastructure is already available to build more wafer fabs since there are already reliable suppliers. Many critical resources such as nitrogen and water can be pumped underground to several fabs instead of trucked in, improving efficiency. Industrial suppliers of refined silicon, dopants, glue, solvents, and machine parts, as well as clean room garment washing services, will serve many different factories. Workers who are experienced and educated in semiconductors will also be available since there are other fabs nearby. Land is also highly available and more affordable in Arizona so that new and highly automated facilities can be constructed more easily there than other states.
Need to build a water treatment plant on site to recycle water, and desalination plants to get useful water from sea water. Waste heat from say a nuclear reactor would help with same.
Very interesting and informative. Well done. Key takeaways for me were 1) why so much water is used 2) how that used volume is partially reused 3) why would a Fab be placed in Arizona and 4) how the required water volumes are then delivered in very dry areas such as Arizona, and what has been 'traded' in order to acquire this water.
: One needs to understand though, that water isn't "used up". It doesn't leave the earth or anything... it is moved into a different location or taken out of a system for some time but it is not destroyed or anything.
@@philippbeckonert1678 Care to elaborate? It seems like you're saying "drought isn't as much of a problem as this video makes it seem, because water is never destroyed." The fact that water is never destroyed--I believe electrolysis would like to have a word with you about that statement, but I get that you're referring to the water cycle--this fact has no effect on how EASY it is to access it. Ease of access is the very thing that makes drought a concern. Particularly the ease of accessing the type of water that people want to use. Water that needs to be trucked in from far away or processed before it's safe to use costs more. Whether that's for industrial or residential usage, that's a concern.
this is some climate denialist bullshit. these companies wreck water tables through exorbitant, profligate usage, such as making ultrapure water and dumping the remainder. your cheap Nvidia cards aren't worth our drinking water being ruined.
This is a interesting video to watch as im an employee of Lam Research. I see the ultra pure water every day and always wondered how it was purified. Thank you for this video and keep up the content.
This is why I am always amazed more companies don't move to areas where the water resources are more abundant. I live near the great lakes region in the us and with responsible management there would be a huge supply of freshwater. (I understand that there is much more nuance to this topic, but it always amazed me how cities and companies will grow beyond the capabilities of their natural resoursces)
The problem with the great lakes is it's surrounded by compulsory union states. It's really taken a toll on the economy of states like Wisconsin which used to be a manufacturing powerhouse.
Ever heard of acid rain? Water with pollutants isn't reusable through natural evaporation. It costs a ton of money to properly rid it of man made pollution.
Singapore has a couple of semicon companies. Globalfoundries (GF) has 5 fabs & building their 6th (there's room for 1,2 more fabs). Micron has 2, ST Micron 2, SSMC 1, UMC 1 & Vanguard 1 (ex GF fab). Treated 'new water' is the industry primary source of supply.
they are an island nation so clearly water itself is not in short demand, and since semiconductors need ultra clean water as opposed to just potable water i don't think sourcing it from the ocean vs a river would add much cost to filtration.
Galicia (NW Spain) or Sri Lanka has even more annual rainfall... They selected Ireland because they are in the euro zone and speak English! Oh, and the industrial development authority threw bucketfuls of money at them, even though they are already a profitable business.
@@karhukivi well, i was talking about Europe. For sure english and the irish tax Heaven could have helped, but even if there was a Better Place in Europe, i suspect they would have established themselves legally in Ireland, then deploying the factory wherever. Since you mentioned some factors, Also being directly in front of USA, the easiest country to reach together with Portugal (and i guess galicia). Spain was not suitable for other reasons probably, i Imagine It not having the infrastrutture, especially galicia in the upper corner of Spain. Besides, North America does not lack water resources, Just look at Canada. They needed One in Europe and they are planning a next One in Continental Europe, i Heard A.Merkel and M.Draghi discussing with Intel executives about the topic and it's rumored opening in Italy or Germany
@@fisk7aal we are talking about the actual factories. A lot of big european and non european Companies are legally established in Ireland/Luxembourg for the european branch, paying the Little taxes there, but usually having factories in other places (East Europe where work time Is cheaper and regulations a bit easier, Is a trend).
When you say water is used you really mean abstracted, cleaned up for industrial use the dumped with minimal treatment being unfit for human consumption. Presumably the sea or ocean is expected to absorb the contaminants. Manufacturers should be forced to recycle in situations where the water is scarce.
You made this video a while ago? Luckily we had a few storms from the time of that starting headline; unfortunately even flooding. Nevertheless, great to know this. I hope Taiwan can keep up and improve for future dry periods. Seems like everybody is having trouble with water all around the world. Really like your videos. Regards from Taoyuan. PS. Hope you can make a video on the pork industry in Southeast and far east Asia. It seems to be very serious business.
Very interesting overview, thank you! Agriculture is pretty important though...it's not like we can just allocate that water elsewhere and stop eating.
It's not important it be done in the desert - it's pretty ridiculous all the flood irrigation going on in the desert to grow crops in the worst location possible. There's a ton of prime farmland in the US - more than we'd ever need to feed everybody. There's no logical need to grow crops in the desert. But water rights have nothing to do with logic.
The agriculture industry can improve its water usage though... there are methods such as drip irrigation which would greatly help reduce water waste in farms.
@@scythal That may be true, but the root cause of the problem today is mismanagement. Recently California had a Major rain event that was filling reservoirs fast. Their response? Dump most of it into the ocean! This is an artificial problem due to very, very bad mismanagement
@@steveseattle6791 Agreed, poor water management is essentially rubbing salt in the wound... I believe that more investment in water collection and runoff infrastructure as well as water storage solutions would greatly help...
This also reminded me that even if everything else comes together, there is likely never goikg to be a fab unit in India like In china or Malaysia. We're already pretty regressive when it comes to the hardware businesses, add in the water factor and its an absolute no go.
True I guess, even though any of the technical problems may get solved in the future (I doubt that too), India is simply not a suitable candidate yet considering its bad economic conditions.
It'll be a long time before China has a fab like Taiwan as well. The US gov is blocking ASML from exporting the current generation of photolithography machines to China specifically to prevent them from being able to manufacture the kind of chips that TSMC and Global Foundries can- th-cam.com/video/N34NULbnVqU/w-d-xo.html
@@vikramaditya7515 NE has a lot of potential but the Siliguri corridor is a perennial cause for anxiety. Not a smart location to put strategic assets like fabrication plants, same goes for punjab where they put SCL. I mean on a border state ? Really ?
@@mememaster147 thats an external challenge, India has a lot of perennially unresolved issues far closer to ground in the realm of poor quality and standards in education with an over reliance on social justice and not enough of competancy, thats not even accounting for the poor energy infrastructure and general high cost of doing business in India and a volatile population that puts the french to shame in terms of strikes and shutdowns. There is stille the Issue of Vedanta copper plant that was decommisioned effectly making us reliant on imports, a land where ideology trumps reason and ambition.
The TSMC fab is north of Phoenix....near happy valley and 35th Ave. Chandler is where the Intel fabs are which is almost 80KM in the SE direction from where TSMC is building.
The burden should be on the semiconductor industry to clean, filter, purify, and reuse the water they use instead of digging deeper for ground water or "taking from another consumer". Simply because the water used in the fabs are not consumed in the product but rather process steps (equipment cooling, wafer cleaning, etc.). The cost/benefit analysis surely supports this notion. Its time to hold them accountable, and not "kick-the-can". In my opinion. It would be less costly, I believe, to pull water from the Gulf of Mexico and pump it to AZ than pump it from the ground.
Most fabs in the US and EU recycle their water. I worked at a small fab on northern Cali, we used the recycled water, dubbed brown water, to water the garden in the back. Could be wrong here, TSMC enjoys much looser regulations on their waste streams.
Well the cost of reycling ultrapure water after the wash cycles is much higher than cleaning water from the supply mains- too many dissolved impurities after the wash steps in manufacturing , especially scrubbing the dissolved gases which probably requires distillation and condensation and treatment with scrubbing agents.
@@ArrowBast You're equating the public safety of our water supply cost? Manufacturers should be held financially accountable for the burden they put on anyone. And releasing chemicals into the environment is inexcusable.
@@alext8828 Its not as easy for Semiconductor fabs to treat water the same way Car Washes do , once treated ,most water cannot be reused back in the fab and can only be discharged into irrigating gardens or parks , the dissolved toxins may not be suitable for even agricultural use , animal use . Water treated from Car Washes can be easily re-used within the Car Wash , the same cannot apply for semiconductor fabs . However in places like Arizona with their abundant sunlight , direct solar power ( radiation) could be used to evaporatively distill the runoff before discharge or reuse via specially designed pools. As such Wafer Fabs have Wafer thin margins and are immensely prone to market fluctuations , and piling on such heavy environmental costs will only discourage them from even investing in one.
Im pretty sure memory actually has more layers than most cpu processes since modern flash memory have something like 96 layers and theres no good reason to have that many layers on a cpu
I m pretty sure CPU have more layers than most flash memory since CPU have102 layers and there is no good reason to have that many layers on flash memory.
I grew up in Chandler, AZ, and it is most definitely an Intel town. What's funny is that the history of Chandler has always been about water, even from the beginning, water allotments for farmers were issued up to a certain number of acres. The semiconductor companies pushed out the farmers, but the city will still offer up water in the name of growth.
current farming and food practices are unsustainable - like almonds and rice in california or beef cattle in semi deserts. And farmers lobbies are both very selfish and political, but there are other human beings too .
A concept in water reusage is "gray water." The water isn't dirty enough to be discarded and biologically treated like (humam) waste water but also not clean enough to be drank by humans. The usage of this water would be in cases, where you just need the water as a carrying agent like flushing a toilet or cleaning the driveway etc. Maybe the water which cannot be reused as ultra purr water can be used as gray water, if the city creates plumbing for gray water.
Great video and very interesting problem that will grow in the future. Are you still doing your deep-dive series and if so have you considered looking into Nvidia?
I'm in Chandler, and never understood why they are building yet another semi-conductor fab here considering Intel has 2 of them here already. But the explanations you pointed out makes sense. Just pray we don't run out of water!
they could just build it in idaho or montana which have much better water access building in arizona is such a stupid idea and only puts profits ahead of people
Ofc me living in AZ means I have to live with water shortages, but why are they building a FAB here?! Its the local city probably offering crazy incentives for them to build there....
@@moniquechavez150 because it's cheap, and people like Doug Ducey are willing to dehydrate you and your neighbors to keep some shithead CEO happy and rich.
Got a uncle who lives not to far from bosie Idaho, where Micron has a massive fab, he had his well at his house run dry, and so did many of his neighbors, but Micron is aloud to use as much water as they please from their 4 onsite wells.
Love your work! Most engaging and informative. SUBSCRIBED! I reckon you've got what it takes to compete with the big players - e.g. polymatter, veratisum, wendover. One suggestion if I may - contract a graphic designer to create you a logo/brand. Chuck it on every thumbnail and intro. Very short and simple addition but even a tiny adjustment to standardise your aesthetic will pay off more than the input. If you're after inspiration, two channels I think pull this off very well are cold fusion and SEA. I like deer too, maybe you could try incorporate this somehow.
I love how everyone is really rooting for this TH-camr and looking to be helpful. These are the most wholesome comment threads on TH-cam, it's wonderful. If you're reading this, Asianometry - keep up the awesome work! 😄
I can see a future where being able to use less advanced technology alongside the more advanced become more important than ever as I appreciate the resources that went into a 10th gen phone or I connect to cloud platform. Go semi's !!!
There already different tiers of electronics in your home, some requiring the latest technology and others requiring older technology. The board in your washing machine probably uses 20yo technology.
It also has a lot to do with climate and specifically humidity. FABs absolutely must maintain 0% humidity internally to function efficiently. Achieving 0% humidity is nigh impossible, but it's definitely a lot easier and cheaper to get close by starting somewhere that's already incredibly dry.
Another thing with reclaimed water in Arizona, my grandfather worked at a large water treatment facility there and the amount of reclaimed water may actually be higher as most of the treated water in Arizona is pumped back into the aquifer (the ground) which further purifies it.
Almost any modern semiconductor plant is automated, humans rarely handle the wafers. Humans are also source of contamination in terms of particles in a fab
Its deceptive to say fabs use a lot of water, however 99 % of the water used is retained. filtered, and reused. Once the initial water tanks are filled and processed, almost no outside water is added.
I work for a semi company we'll call Ram Leasearch in the US. They/We just brought a reprocessed water system online last year have since recycled 8mg out of 42mill gallons of water.. back into our/their system for use in the labs/clean rooms. Not 100% sure if our chillers are utilizing the water as well. System needs to be better!! All companies should be held to a much higher standard!! Thank you for your video!
Great, in-depth video. Would love to see a video about the role of TSMC in US China relations and maneuvering around the question of a potential PRC invasion of Taiwan!
I'm of the opinion that the USA will force a confrontation with Mainland China first. Without the USA, Mainland China will just wait out the further fall of the USA. When Taiwan realizes that it doesn't have the backing of USA and ASEAN, abandoned like Afghanistan, it will sue for peace and assistance from the Mainland. MLC does not need to invade Taiwan. The ONE CHINA legal doctrine, is sufficient to keep that off the table. Only the USA and it's puppets edging Taiwan to declare independence would change that. Then we have WW3.
There's a straightforward answer to the water supply question. Desalination of ocean water to the base "drinking water" level runs a little less than $3000 per acre-foot, or about $2.50 per metric ton. That's significantly more than precipitation or groundwater sources, but still well below the cost these companies would pay for access to their water. This is especially true since they are already treating the water in similar ways (although much more thoroughly) to obtain ultrapure water. A basic reverse osmosis and filtration frontend would provide for a simple, renewable source of "fresh enough" water to then pass through their secondary purification systems. I think there are two reasons this is not already the norm. One is simply that existing water sources are cheaper, even when being transported from other areas. The cost of commercial culinary water in Tucson Arizona is about $1.20 per metric ton, which is less than half the desalination cost while also being much simpler to implement. Another is that land in Arizona is dirt cheap compared to any usable oceanfront property. However, the fact remains that we have access to technology that allows us to scale freshwater accessibility to essentially infinite levels (at least, as infinite as the volume of the earth's oceans) provided demand scales as well. Semiconductors are a profitable enough industry that they may well drive this demand. If you're frustrated by governments ignoring this mismatch of profitability and necessity, one common approach is tiered water usage, which Arizona already implements. Their highest tier of commercial water consumption sees a 40% increase in total pricing compared to the base rate. They can then take that increased revenue and use it to further develop their water infrastructure specifically. This allows them to foster commercial development without such tight scrutiny over manufacturers' water consumption, improving infrastructure for the entire population as a result. One day this may well result in water cost rising (or technology cost falling) to the point that desalination methods become cost effective, and when that occurs it's likely that these methods will be employed for municipal water as a whole, rather than by these companies specifically.
@asianometry great video, always nice to learn about our industry. I know as they continue they are making strides to reuse the water. Equipment is becoming more available and more cost effective to get so smaller facilities are seeing paybacks.
These companies should come to Denmark. One of the most geologically stable regions in the world, stable infrastructure at every level and a water supply that cannot be emptied. Here artificial arrogation is all but unheard of because downpour is a given nearly 200 days a year. This also means that our ground water reserves replenish themselves as fast as we can pump it up. We basically just use the ground as a big filter.
To solve unpredictable water shortage problems in Taiwan, the only way is to build more water collection reservoir next to rivers and connect to end users or existing water reservoir by pipelines. There are plenty of water in the river during rain season and most all flow out to the sea become useless.
@@evannibbe9375 California already got very long water canal from Colorado to the partial desert area. No need to waste money to build desalination plant powered by nuclear reactor. There are many other minor rivers flowing through California that end in the sea. This is a waste of fresh river water.Just capture this fresh water before end up into sea.
And it's also important for you, the consumer, to hold on to your technology for as long as possible. Don't buy new phones, PC parts or other things unless the ones you have are so old they can't run what you wanna run, or when they're actually broken. It's our absurd consumption that needs to stop just as much as factory water usage.
We the consumers must tell our politicians enough with predatory capitalist practices. It is time for humanity to collaborate and cooperate to make this a better safer planet. Stop hoarding resources and feed and educate people instead. There is plenty for everybody. Enough with the elites. Everybody has a right to live with dignity. Learn to share; stop fighting over trying to own everything in the universe.
I guess this was written quite a while ago then. This summer has been quite a wet one and both major southern reservoirs are literally full to bursting now, although it is true that before the rain came, they were almost completely empty.
The state implementing CPU manufacturing in a bad water area sounds like a terrible idea. I also doubt the notion that they can just throw money at the issue to make it go away. Water infrastructure costs millions and millions of dollars. They could easily realize unexpected costs.
Arizona is a land inundated with clean drinking water? Is there another Arizona in Europe or Asia somewhere I've not heard of? The Arizona I'm familiar with is located in the Southwest US, right smack in the middle of the desert, where drought is more common than not.
Does it have to be water? What about isopropyrl whatever its called or whatever? Or alcohol? The is one of the most interesting videos I have watched in awhile. Sounds like fun to be the person trying to solve this issue.
Alcohols are flammable, non polar so not suitable for osmosis and dissolving inorganic salts and do not have the correct index of refraction for lithographic focus. Water is the cheapest and best resource for this , even after factoring in all purity requirements .
Wish I coulda seen your face as you were saying the power of friendship line. Heard you voice raise a good bit but couldn’t hear you crack a smile. How many times did you have to record that part?
Thanks Asianometry for the overview. The land use value matrix analysis was insightful. The current massive fab shop building programs in Arizona are still a bit puzzling to me. The USA Great Lakes offer an abundant supply of water that is low in dissolved minerals, esp Na.
Not only water, electricity is also a problem. The demand for elecity will be high as it used for fab and water treatment. Water and electricity is reason why it's better to build high tech chip fab on mainland rather than on a small island (make much morse sense in term of available resources).
Either I missed it or I did not understand correctly but the water used is not lost. So 100% of the water going in is also going out right? I assume that the contaminated water can be recycled almost 100% if they develop or construct better purification plants. I don't understand why there isn't a company who just purifies the water for the Fab location for payment. The fabs have large demand for clean enough water and high supply of polluted water. There has to be a way to make it a closed loop.
Wondering why distilling sea water in a massive scale with the solar heat would not work? The byproduct of such a distillation would yield lithium that can be used to create batteries that can again power the distillation during nights or cloudy days.
It would be extremely expensive. Water shortages aren't shortages in the sense of to here not being enough water. The shortage is a shortage of cheap water.
@@lobsterbark Today, initial large capital investments are the norm for every resource. Because human consumptions have gone astronomical. Gone are the days of free natural resources from mother nature without any initial investments.
Very interesting as usual, thank you. I think that it could be interesting to do a video on ressources per product manufacturing as of 2021 (pc, smartphones, connected appliances), and the historical evolution. It’s a very hot topic for which it is hard to find proper source data. Might be a good gateway for new viewers on your channel. I wish you the best
Hope you enjoyed the video. Subscribe if you like it. Watch something else from the Semiconductors playlist too: th-cam.com/play/PLKtxx9TnH76QEYXdJx6KyycNGHePJQwWW.html
1 gallon =3.8 L
single 200mm wafer use 5,600 L or 2000 gallon?
2000 gallon X 3.8L =7,600L
@fffwe
Formulate this in ...How many gallons of potable water equal one gallon of Ultra Purified ?
🤔
2000 Gals for one wafer? That cant be right, those are absurd numbers.
this is bullshit the ocean is right there, desalination exist....100% propaganda. Water is renewable its a cycle of evaporation, the governments of the world are moving it around with ionization weathering technology
there is are 600 patents on weather technology world wide
I've learned more about semiconductors from your channel than any other youtube "documentary" video ever. Thanks for sharing your detailed knowledge. Truly a joy to listen to someone talk about their passion.
@@AngryMan666 Ok, I agree that China sucks, but do you have anything to back up the first two claims? That this guy is a propaganda channel and that factories are *not* better than farms?
@@lordofthecats6397 Not a CPC marketing outlet. Source: Literally me, Asianometry
@@Asianometry That's just what a CCP marketing outlet would say! /jk
@@lordofthecats6397 Methinks you need a geography and politics lesson. @Asianometry is produced and run by a Taiwanese gentleman. Perhaps you were unaware that China despises the Taiwanese government and has plans for forcibly taking control of the island of Taiwan. Why would a "China shill" be talking up a country that the Chinese government wants to see destroyed?
@@AngryMan666There has to be more efficient ways of spreading propaganda than in depth discussions about semiconductor physics and processes
I work for a company that produces water quality analyzers including for the semiconductor industry, and I can say, without a doubt, they have by far the most stringent requirements for water purity. Pharma industry requires water that has 500PPB or less of organics in the water, Semiconductor looks for water with far below 1PPB of organics, preferably in single digit PPT range. (PPB=Parts per billion, PPT=Parts per trillion). They are definitely the most difficult industry for producing instruments that can measure their water quality for their requirements.
Absolutely
Thank for information. Any idea about which company in India is capable of doing this ultrapure water.
Hard to believe we get water that clean
@@Idrinklight44 like any part of the ic fab process.. they are all hard to believe.. its magic!
@@Idrinklight44 The cleaner the water, the higher the yields from the silicon, the higher the profits.
5:25 "salt ions are transfered through a membrane using the power of friendship"
I laughed so hard. Omg.
I think its pressurized force.
Is that a computer generated voice and translation?
hey. come on now. friendship is so much more than just pressurized force
@@RTFManuel power of friendship might be binding force.
Isn't this the same term used in laser generation?
Power of friendship 🤣
🦄🌈
I did not get it and it was still funny.
😘🐓🤫🧔
🤢🍩🤸
@@Extys this guy gets it
"there may not be enough water around for everyone"
oh the foreshadowing
Guess they didn't do their homework - MN
I love hearing your stories! As a European, I unfortunately don't hear enough about what's happening in Asia. This video was a great insight :)
What do you mean?
Yea, humans seem to have a great aversion to looking at other worlds. I like to visit strange lands and the internet has allowed us to see them.
@@marktrinidad7650 can't you read? he wasn't unclear about anything
@@Monkey.D.Pression Think he was asking what being European has to do with being informed. Don't understand context?
@@deadeyeduncan5022 you don't understand context. where do you get the impression that he said being informed and being european has anything to do with eachother??? context doesn't mean adding your own shit into it.... but idiots will always defend fellow idiots i guess
I think it could be cheaper for them to pay for water saving measures at other companies to offset their own usage. A steel foundry for example uses up to 50k liters per hour for cooling steal which mostly evaporates. Capturing that steam can create energy while also being used to clean the water. It is expensive so it is slow to get adopted, but if TSMC or someone else offsets the cost everyone benefits.
Sort of like the UN Clean Development Program mechanism worked for carbon. I wonder if this type of mechanism is being used anywhere for water savings as you describe?
That's brilliant! Industries should, indeed, be considered together as a system as far as using resources goes!
Like a "Wate Credit" ? In the same way we do "Carbon Credits" ? That's an interesting idea, I wonder wether there are already such initiative, it seems worth exploring.
Interesting idea, untill the Water Credits are applied to citizens ;)
@@R4hdoo07 Do you pay carbon credits ? No you don't, at least not directly.
Another problem they have had, a least in the past, is the need for clean water, moving to where there is clean water, and then contaminating that water from various industrial practices.
Motorola did that in AZ in the past, as another poster in these comments pointed out. it's hilarious that the same subthread had a fab worker saying "it's because az is environmentally stable ackshually" while just discounting the drought his industry will exacerbate.
the real reason they want to go there is because chud politicians like Ducey will cut them sweetheart deals for campaign bribes.
@@NightfallGemini If that were the "real reason" you'd see them looking for politicians who would do the same elsewhere. It's not like AZ is the only place with politicians. And yes, I'm applying the same features to all of them. The exceptions are so rare as not to be worth mentioning.
It's ironic how you add "ackshually" when you are doing the same thing.
"Thousands have lived without love, not one without water". --W. H. Auden
Very well done.. Thank you. Cheers from So.Ca.USA, 3rd House On the Right.
i know where you live
@@LunarLaker Dang! I'm suing "Auto Complete"'... BTW. It's actually the 6th House on the left.. yeah, that's it, the 6th :O) Cheers NL
@@ovalwingnut
The 3'rd from the right, the 6ths from the left. Perfectly said.
The airstrike is on the way, Mr Qasem Soleimani.
@@PreciousMental wat
As the Colorado River experiences decreased flow, server farms and semiconductor manufacturing will continue to displace agriculture and residential usage. In the end, no amount of money can buy water that no longer exists.
Its like oil and fracking, when the demand gets high enough its will incentivize massive nuclear power to conduct electrolysis and massive distillation of Sea water into fresh.
@@logicbomb5511 It will likely that. I think seawater is way more abundant the fresh water. Disalt it while still making money will be way better.
@@logicbomb5511 I am hoping to push desalination to its new revolution
They simply remove from the sea since money can buy it... And if the sea is way too far, well again MONEY buys miles and miles of piping if they want so it's all about money, but since that would increase pricing and at the end who pays is always the customers fuck it.
Why don’t desalinate using solar ?
Wow, we don't see quality like this in TH-cam. One of the best.
TSMC 50mn liters of water per day!? What!? Even recycling 87%, that’s a lot!
It might be interesting to think of the national security implications of using farm water for semiconductors in Taiwan. On the one hand, less food means less security as more needs to be imported. On the other hand, more semiconductors means more global reliance on Taiwan.
that is a gap between the taiwan government and the singapore government... not only does singapore solve the water recycling, it also has robust military defence and a population that is willing to defend itself. 30% of taiwan's military are now ghost unit because no one want to join the military. the way taiwan is govern is just too slow, they spend too much time grandstanding and they haven't even address the power shortage issue... denuclearization was the dumbest self-inflicted wound ever... for a few green votes, the government crippled the country's power grid, madness.
@@lagrangewei Singapore didn't replace their technocratic party with reactionary SJWs. Key difference.
@@andro7862 I'm an ignorant idiot, can you please explain Singapore has to do with Taiwans governance? Is it a geopolitics thing? Or is it just a comparison between similar(?) countries?
@@lagrangewei 50 cent army alert
@@jakewatson2660 CIA terrorist alert.
Your explanation of "why Arizona" did not explain why Arizona was chosen rather than any other state willing to attract the semiconductor industry. You explained how Arizona attracted this industry and why it wanted to rather than why Arizona in particular. I was left thinking the dry state of Arizona was a strange choice.
The simple answer is that Arizona must've cut them the best deal. Tax cuts, promises of land and water, and projected costs of operation all having much more to do with politicians than climate.
I'm definitely sure that later on, water shortage would be their problem in Arizona.
Hi! I work in a semiconductor fab. Arizona is environmentally stable and not subject to extreme weather events such as hurricanes. Arizona is close to California, which has been one of the primary drivers of research and innovation and educated workers for decades. Arizona probably has more favorable business regulations than California.
Moreover, since there are already several fabs in Arizona, the infrastructure is already available to build more wafer fabs since there are already reliable suppliers. Many critical resources such as nitrogen and water can be pumped underground to several fabs instead of trucked in, improving efficiency. Industrial suppliers of refined silicon, dopants, glue, solvents, and machine parts, as well as clean room garment washing services, will serve many different factories. Workers who are experienced and educated in semiconductors will also be available since there are other fabs nearby.
Land is also highly available and more affordable in Arizona so that new and highly automated facilities can be constructed more easily there than other states.
@@richardrisner921 - Thanks for the detailed explanation!
@@reywashere5284 Provided you can dig a deep enough well, groundwater in segments of Arizona is free. It is also legal to harvest rain water.
Need to build a water treatment plant on site to recycle water, and desalination plants to get useful water from sea water. Waste heat from say a nuclear reactor would help with same.
In the case of Arizona at least, there's no convenient sea.
@@absalomdraconisa very long pipeline
@@absalomdraconis well it's a stupid place to build a semiconductor factory
Don't need waste heat if you just use membranes.
@@Phil-D83 nuclear technology comes with sky high expensive price..
Very interesting and informative. Well done. Key takeaways for me were 1) why so much water is used 2) how that used volume is partially reused 3) why would a Fab be placed in Arizona and 4) how the required water volumes are then delivered in very dry areas such as Arizona, and what has been 'traded' in order to acquire this water.
Great video, I work at a fab in California and am on the facility side of things and this was interesting insight!
highly interesting and showing a lot of room for improving semiconductortechnology. Thank you very much!
: One needs to understand though, that water isn't "used up". It doesn't leave the earth or anything... it is moved into a different location or taken out of a system for some time but it is not destroyed or anything.
Even so, there is a scale of usefulness with water. If you poison my drinking water, you didn't destroy it but you certainly ruined it.
@@faktablad That comparison is wrong in this context.
@@philippbeckonert1678 Care to elaborate? It seems like you're saying "drought isn't as much of a problem as this video makes it seem, because water is never destroyed." The fact that water is never destroyed--I believe electrolysis would like to have a word with you about that statement, but I get that you're referring to the water cycle--this fact has no effect on how EASY it is to access it. Ease of access is the very thing that makes drought a concern. Particularly the ease of accessing the type of water that people want to use. Water that needs to be trucked in from far away or processed before it's safe to use costs more. Whether that's for industrial or residential usage, that's a concern.
this is some climate denialist bullshit. these companies wreck water tables through exorbitant, profligate usage, such as making ultrapure water and dumping the remainder. your cheap Nvidia cards aren't worth our drinking water being ruined.
@@NightfallGemini he says as he makes a comment on the internet, lol
This is a interesting video to watch as im an employee of Lam Research. I see the ultra pure water every day and always wondered how it was purified. Thank you for this video and keep up the content.
Simple - - - pure h2 + pure O2 = pure h2o
This is why I am always amazed more companies don't move to areas where the water resources are more abundant. I live near the great lakes region in the us and with responsible management there would be a huge supply of freshwater. (I understand that there is much more nuance to this topic, but it always amazed me how cities and companies will grow beyond the capabilities of their natural resoursces)
The problem with the great lakes is it's surrounded by compulsory union states. It's really taken a toll on the economy of states like Wisconsin which used to be a manufacturing powerhouse.
@@bubba99009can you explain what compulsory union states are?
All water is reusable. Our planet does it every day. It’s just a matter of how much time and energy a fab wants to put into it.
Humans are lazy. Do you really think they will cut into their profits to be responsible?
@@viscountalpha they won't cut profit but simply push the prices up.
they won't pay to clean it up as long as they can grease a few palms. They KNOW they will be dead and buried by the time the shit hits the fan.
Ever heard of acid rain? Water with pollutants isn't reusable through natural evaporation. It costs a ton of money to properly rid it of man made pollution.
@@viscountalpha not exactly a problem of humans, more like a problem of capitalism
I like that you have a newsletter. So much more efficient to read than watch video.
Could this be one reason Singapores semiconductor fabrication never quite took off? Water supply for an island of only 730 square km
no. charted hired a paper general that drove it to the ground, just like NOL
Singapore has a couple of semicon companies. Globalfoundries (GF) has 5 fabs & building their 6th (there's room for 1,2 more fabs). Micron has 2, ST Micron 2, SSMC 1, UMC 1 & Vanguard 1 (ex GF fab). Treated 'new water' is the industry primary source of supply.
they are an island nation so clearly water itself is not in short demand, and since semiconductors need ultra clean water as opposed to just potable water i don't think sourcing it from the ocean vs a river would add much cost to filtration.
Water from neighboring countries
in europe intel was very smart: looked at sismic map, looked at rain map, then selected ireland
Galicia (NW Spain) or Sri Lanka has even more annual rainfall... They selected Ireland because they are in the euro zone and speak English! Oh, and the industrial development authority threw bucketfuls of money at them, even though they are already a profitable business.
@@karhukivi well, i was talking about Europe. For sure english and the irish tax Heaven could have helped, but even if there was a Better Place in Europe, i suspect they would have established themselves legally in Ireland, then deploying the factory wherever.
Since you mentioned some factors, Also being directly in front of USA, the easiest country to reach together with Portugal (and i guess galicia). Spain was not suitable for other reasons probably, i Imagine It not having the infrastrutture, especially galicia in the upper corner of Spain.
Besides, North America does not lack water resources, Just look at Canada. They needed One in Europe and they are planning a next One in Continental Europe, i Heard A.Merkel and M.Draghi discussing with Intel executives about the topic and it's rumored opening in Italy or Germany
Ireland has an extremely low corporate tax rate. They've been fighting the global minimum corporation tax rate plan really hard.
Lol No. They looked at Tax rates. Nothing else.
@@fisk7aal we are talking about the actual factories. A lot of big european and non european Companies are legally established in Ireland/Luxembourg for the european branch, paying the Little taxes there, but usually having factories in other places (East Europe where work time Is cheaper and regulations a bit easier, Is a trend).
When you say water is used you really mean abstracted, cleaned up for industrial use the dumped with minimal treatment being unfit for human consumption. Presumably the sea or ocean is expected to absorb the contaminants. Manufacturers should be forced to recycle in situations where the water is scarce.
You made this video a while ago? Luckily we had a few storms from the time of that starting headline; unfortunately even flooding.
Nevertheless, great to know this. I hope Taiwan can keep up and improve for future dry periods. Seems like everybody is having trouble with water all around the world.
Really like your videos. Regards from Taoyuan.
PS. Hope you can make a video on the pork industry in Southeast and far east Asia. It seems to be very serious business.
Very interesting overview, thank you! Agriculture is pretty important though...it's not like we can just allocate that water elsewhere and stop eating.
It's not important it be done in the desert - it's pretty ridiculous all the flood irrigation going on in the desert to grow crops in the worst location possible. There's a ton of prime farmland in the US - more than we'd ever need to feed everybody. There's no logical need to grow crops in the desert. But water rights have nothing to do with logic.
@@bubba99009 Spoken like a true communist.
The agriculture industry can improve its water usage though... there are methods such as drip irrigation which would greatly help reduce water waste in farms.
@@scythal That may be true, but the root cause of the problem today is mismanagement. Recently California had a Major rain event that was filling reservoirs fast. Their response? Dump most of it into the ocean! This is an artificial problem due to very, very bad mismanagement
@@steveseattle6791 Agreed, poor water management is essentially rubbing salt in the wound... I believe that more investment in water collection and runoff infrastructure as well as water storage solutions would greatly help...
Dude I didn't know this channel existed, but this is an impressive knowledge bomb -- reminded me of NPR in a good way. Subscribed
This also reminded me that even if everything else comes together, there is likely never goikg to be a fab unit in India like In china or Malaysia. We're already pretty regressive when it comes to the hardware businesses, add in the water factor and its an absolute no go.
North Eastern region have plenty of water it's about utilisation. We in NE receive high amount of rainfalls.
True I guess, even though any of the technical problems may get solved in the future (I doubt that too), India is simply not a suitable candidate yet considering its bad economic conditions.
It'll be a long time before China has a fab like Taiwan as well. The US gov is blocking ASML from exporting the current generation of photolithography machines to China specifically to prevent them from being able to manufacture the kind of chips that TSMC and Global Foundries can- th-cam.com/video/N34NULbnVqU/w-d-xo.html
@@vikramaditya7515 NE has a lot of potential but the Siliguri corridor is a perennial cause for anxiety. Not a smart location to put strategic assets like fabrication plants, same goes for punjab where they put SCL. I mean on a border state ? Really ?
@@mememaster147 thats an external challenge, India has a lot of perennially unresolved issues far closer to ground in the realm of poor quality and standards in education with an over reliance on social justice and not enough of competancy, thats not even accounting for the poor energy infrastructure and general high cost of doing business in India and a volatile population that puts the french to shame in terms of strikes and shutdowns. There is stille the Issue of Vedanta copper plant that was decommisioned effectly making us reliant on imports, a land where ideology trumps reason and ambition.
The TSMC fab is north of Phoenix....near happy valley and 35th Ave. Chandler is where the Intel fabs are which is almost 80KM in the SE direction from where TSMC is building.
The burden should be on the semiconductor industry to clean, filter, purify, and reuse the water they use instead of digging deeper for ground water or "taking from another consumer". Simply because the water used in the fabs are not consumed in the product but rather process steps (equipment cooling, wafer cleaning, etc.). The cost/benefit analysis surely supports this notion. Its time to hold them accountable, and not "kick-the-can". In my opinion.
It would be less costly, I believe, to pull water from the Gulf of Mexico and pump it to AZ than pump it from the ground.
Exactly. I think even carwashes recycle and filter their water. What's wrong with these people?
Most fabs in the US and EU recycle their water. I worked at a small fab on northern Cali, we used the recycled water, dubbed brown water, to water the garden in the back. Could be wrong here, TSMC enjoys much looser regulations on their waste streams.
Well the cost of reycling ultrapure water after the wash cycles is much higher than cleaning water from the supply mains- too many dissolved impurities after the wash steps in manufacturing , especially scrubbing the dissolved gases which probably requires distillation and condensation and treatment with scrubbing agents.
@@ArrowBast You're equating the public safety of our water supply cost? Manufacturers should be held financially accountable for the burden they put on anyone. And releasing chemicals into the environment is inexcusable.
@@alext8828 Its not as easy for Semiconductor fabs to treat water the same way Car Washes do , once treated ,most water cannot be reused back in the fab and can only be discharged into irrigating gardens or parks , the dissolved toxins may not be suitable for even agricultural use , animal use . Water treated from Car Washes can be easily re-used within the Car Wash , the same cannot apply for semiconductor fabs . However in places like Arizona with their abundant sunlight , direct solar power ( radiation) could be used to evaporatively distill the runoff before discharge or reuse via specially designed pools. As such Wafer Fabs have Wafer thin margins and are immensely prone to market fluctuations , and piling on such heavy environmental costs will only discourage them from even investing in one.
plenty of "fresh" water in the great lakes. Cold also. Arizona seems to be the worst choice to build a Semiconductor fab..
Im pretty sure memory actually has more layers than most cpu processes since modern flash memory have something like 96 layers and theres no good reason to have that many layers on a cpu
I m pretty sure CPU have more layers than most flash memory since CPU have102 layers and there is no good reason to have that many layers on flash memory.
I grew up in Chandler, AZ, and it is most definitely an Intel town. What's funny is that the history of Chandler has always been about water, even from the beginning, water allotments for farmers were issued up to a certain number of acres. The semiconductor companies pushed out the farmers, but the city will still offer up water in the name of growth.
current farming and food practices are unsustainable - like almonds and rice in california or beef cattle in semi deserts. And farmers lobbies are both very selfish and political, but there are other human beings too .
I would recommend smaller fab plants at higher al;attitudes with greater rainfall... like the mountain region of the Cascades in Washington State.
Earthquake zone their
Away from any farmer political constituency ? that's asking for trouble .
Great video. I much appreciated the explanation of why it makes sense to build fabs in Arizona. Thanks!
Cant they clean the chips with milk?
Why not?
No.. Chips are lactose intolerant
10:00 the bar below the highlighted one also says a lot.
The solution is moving & building them fabs in Arizona where there is water in abundance.
A concept in water reusage is "gray water." The water isn't dirty enough to be discarded and biologically treated like (humam) waste water but also not clean enough to be drank by humans. The usage of this water would be in cases, where you just need the water as a carrying agent like flushing a toilet or cleaning the driveway etc.
Maybe the water which cannot be reused as ultra purr water can be used as gray water, if the city creates plumbing for gray water.
Great video and very interesting problem that will grow in the future. Are you still doing your deep-dive series and if so have you considered looking into Nvidia?
I'm in Chandler, and never understood why they are building yet another semi-conductor fab here considering Intel has 2 of them here already. But the explanations you pointed out makes sense. Just pray we don't run out of water!
they could just build it in idaho or montana which have much better water access
building in arizona is such a stupid idea and only puts profits ahead of people
Ofc me living in AZ means I have to live with water shortages, but why are they building a FAB here?! Its the local city probably offering crazy incentives for them to build there....
State will even give them your water, businesses come first
you do realize there have been fabs in AZ for the longest time?
@@cks2k2 I do but the water situation hasnt improved it's gotten dramatically worse, so why are we still building Fabs in a damn desert.
@@cks2k2 another one will double water needs
@@moniquechavez150 because it's cheap, and people like Doug Ducey are willing to dehydrate you and your neighbors to keep some shithead CEO happy and rich.
Got a uncle who lives not to far from bosie Idaho, where Micron has a massive fab, he had his well at his house run dry, and so did many of his neighbors, but Micron is aloud to use as much water as they please from their 4 onsite wells.
Love your work! Most engaging and informative. SUBSCRIBED!
I reckon you've got what it takes to compete with the big players - e.g. polymatter, veratisum, wendover.
One suggestion if I may - contract a graphic designer to create you a logo/brand. Chuck it on every thumbnail and intro. Very short and simple addition but even a tiny adjustment to standardise your aesthetic will pay off more than the input. If you're after inspiration, two channels I think pull this off very well are cold fusion and SEA. I like deer too, maybe you could try incorporate this somehow.
I love how everyone is really rooting for this TH-camr and looking to be helpful. These are the most wholesome comment threads on TH-cam, it's wonderful.
If you're reading this, Asianometry - keep up the awesome work! 😄
We're all rooting for you Asianometry!
I live in Kaohsiung and we don’t currently have a water problem but we did a month or two ago. Since then it rained almost everyday.
I can see a future where being able to use less advanced technology alongside the more advanced become more important than ever as I appreciate the resources that went into a 10th gen phone or I connect to cloud platform. Go semi's !!!
There already different tiers of electronics in your home, some requiring the latest technology and others requiring older technology. The board in your washing machine probably uses 20yo technology.
@@sylviam6535 Good point SM. Lots of old patents still working like a champ.
It also has a lot to do with climate and specifically humidity. FABs absolutely must maintain 0% humidity internally to function efficiently. Achieving 0% humidity is nigh impossible, but it's definitely a lot easier and cheaper to get close by starting somewhere that's already incredibly dry.
Agriculture is always the best use of water because try nibbling on a semiconductor, you still feel hungry afterwards 😉
Best comment! 👏🏼👏🏼
Yes, speaker seems to imply that agriculture should be outsourced (to poorer countries ?), or even soil less only...
😲😮😯
Stop calling it semi-conductors, start calling it chips. Problem solved.
Hungry kids in Africa could eat those chips
Another thing with reclaimed water in Arizona, my grandfather worked at a large water treatment facility there and the amount of reclaimed water may actually be higher as most of the treated water in Arizona is pumped back into the aquifer (the ground) which further purifies it.
at 9:58 why is the benefit to employees for HVSM so small? Is it because the low emploeyee density?
Almost any modern semiconductor plant is automated, humans rarely handle the wafers. Humans are also source of contamination in terms of particles in a fab
Very interested video, thank you for making it. This helps to understand the true cost of semiconductor fabrication. Subscribed!
11:41 Afaik Moore's law hasn't been relevant in quite a long time.
Since about 2015 according to my quick little search.
Nuclear power and sea water distillation! Do a video on Taiwan's Nuclear power industry, Please good sir!!!!
Not all the fabs will be in Chandler. That's only Intel, the TSMC lot is in north phoenix along the I-17 corridor.
Think it might be cheaper if they made this water from the ocean vs trucking in water.
Its deceptive to say fabs use a lot of water, however 99 % of the water used is retained. filtered, and reused. Once the initial water tanks are filled and processed, almost no outside water is added.
That is the cleanest Solvent Lift tool I've ever seen.
While I love sarcasm, I worry that sometimes people may not realise it.
It's the sparse interspersion with the total deadpan delivery that does it for me
Exactly, I don’t know Arizona well enough to know whether it is indeed inundated with "fresh clean drinking water" or not.
@@jansix4287 did that desert picture strike you as lush and water rich?
@@voxelfusion9894 Immediately followed by the picture of a filled reservoir dam. Yes, that was also confusing!
I work for a semi company we'll call Ram Leasearch in the US. They/We just brought a reprocessed water system online last year have since recycled 8mg out of 42mill gallons of water.. back into our/their system for use in the labs/clean rooms. Not 100% sure if our chillers are utilizing the water as well. System needs to be better!! All companies should be held to a much higher standard!! Thank you for your video!
Great, in-depth video. Would love to see a video about the role of TSMC in US China relations and maneuvering around the question of a potential PRC invasion of Taiwan!
Also, subscribe for China-related explainers!
I'm of the opinion that the USA will force a confrontation with Mainland China first. Without the USA, Mainland China will just wait out the further fall of the USA. When Taiwan realizes that it doesn't have the backing of USA and ASEAN, abandoned like Afghanistan, it will sue for peace and assistance from the Mainland. MLC does not need to invade Taiwan. The ONE CHINA legal doctrine, is sufficient to keep that off the table. Only the USA and it's puppets edging Taiwan to declare independence would change that. Then we have WW3.
There's a straightforward answer to the water supply question. Desalination of ocean water to the base "drinking water" level runs a little less than $3000 per acre-foot, or about $2.50 per metric ton. That's significantly more than precipitation or groundwater sources, but still well below the cost these companies would pay for access to their water. This is especially true since they are already treating the water in similar ways (although much more thoroughly) to obtain ultrapure water. A basic reverse osmosis and filtration frontend would provide for a simple, renewable source of "fresh enough" water to then pass through their secondary purification systems.
I think there are two reasons this is not already the norm.
One is simply that existing water sources are cheaper, even when being transported from other areas. The cost of commercial culinary water in Tucson Arizona is about $1.20 per metric ton, which is less than half the desalination cost while also being much simpler to implement.
Another is that land in Arizona is dirt cheap compared to any usable oceanfront property.
However, the fact remains that we have access to technology that allows us to scale freshwater accessibility to essentially infinite levels (at least, as infinite as the volume of the earth's oceans) provided demand scales as well. Semiconductors are a profitable enough industry that they may well drive this demand.
If you're frustrated by governments ignoring this mismatch of profitability and necessity, one common approach is tiered water usage, which Arizona already implements. Their highest tier of commercial water consumption sees a 40% increase in total pricing compared to the base rate. They can then take that increased revenue and use it to further develop their water infrastructure specifically. This allows them to foster commercial development without such tight scrutiny over manufacturers' water consumption, improving infrastructure for the entire population as a result. One day this may well result in water cost rising (or technology cost falling) to the point that desalination methods become cost effective, and when that occurs it's likely that these methods will be employed for municipal water as a whole, rather than by these companies specifically.
Something that was glossed over a bit is that Arizona has incredibly cheap electricity due to really really efficient solar energy.
BS Arizona gets 88% of its industrial energy from natural gas nuclear and coal
@@flasher1663 The original comment didn't dispute that.
@@flasher1663 Triggered lol
@asianometry great video, always nice to learn about our industry. I know as they continue they are making strides to reuse the water. Equipment is becoming more available and more cost effective to get so smaller facilities are seeing paybacks.
Commenting for the algorithm
No
Love your content and channel bro. Keep up the work.
Maybe farmers may still subsist by changing their produce with other types of food staples. Some food staple that grows better with less water.
Farming methods also contribute to water usage, for example flood irrigation is pretty wasteful.
@@jonathanjones3126 rice and sugarcane are water hogs.
Can they practically take ammonia and phosphates out for fertilizer usage?
These companies should come to Denmark. One of the most geologically stable regions in the world, stable infrastructure at every level and a water supply that cannot be emptied. Here artificial arrogation is all but unheard of because downpour is a given nearly 200 days a year. This also means that our ground water reserves replenish themselves as fast as we can pump it up. We basically just use the ground as a big filter.
taxes too high, and not enough skilled labour
@@timluo6120 Taxes are high on labour but there is plenty of skilled labour in every high tech field. Nearly 40% get a university degree here...
The local environmentalists would have a stroke, before furiously typing about it on their Macs. Macs that are of course made from semiconductors...
To solve unpredictable water shortage problems in Taiwan, the only way is to build more water collection reservoir next to rivers and connect to end users or existing water reservoir by pipelines. There are plenty of water in the river during rain season and most all flow out to the sea become useless.
Even better: build desalination plants in California and molten salt thorium thermal reactors to power them and get pipelines into Arizona.
@@evannibbe9375 California already got very long water canal from Colorado to the partial desert area.
No need to waste money to build desalination plant powered by nuclear reactor.
There are many other minor rivers flowing through California that end in the sea. This is a waste of fresh river water.Just capture this fresh water before end up into sea.
This is something that always made me wonder especially with TSMC having had to spend extra for it when they faced a shortage in supply.
Losing the farmers is a fast way to wonder why there is no food in the store or your fridge.
And it's also important for you, the consumer, to hold on to your technology for as long as possible. Don't buy new phones, PC parts or other things unless the ones you have are so old they can't run what you wanna run, or when they're actually broken.
It's our absurd consumption that needs to stop just as much as factory water usage.
We the consumers must tell our politicians enough with predatory capitalist practices. It is time for humanity to collaborate and cooperate to make this a better safer planet. Stop hoarding resources and feed and educate people instead. There is plenty for everybody. Enough with the elites. Everybody has a right to live with dignity. Learn to share; stop fighting over trying to own everything in the universe.
I guess this was written quite a while ago then. This summer has been quite a wet one and both major southern reservoirs are literally full to bursting now, although it is true that before the rain came, they were almost completely empty.
Glad I stumbled on this. Great video!
The state implementing CPU manufacturing in a bad water area sounds like a terrible idea. I also doubt the notion that they can just throw money at the issue to make it go away. Water infrastructure costs millions and millions of dollars. They could easily realize unexpected costs.
Cleaning new and used parts in the equipment uses tons of water also.
Arizona is a land inundated with clean drinking water? Is there another Arizona in Europe or Asia somewhere I've not heard of? The Arizona I'm familiar with is located in the Southwest US, right smack in the middle of the desert, where drought is more common than not.
Does it have to be water? What about isopropyrl whatever its called or whatever? Or alcohol? The is one of the most interesting videos I have watched in awhile. Sounds like fun to be the person trying to solve this issue.
Alcohols are flammable, non polar so not suitable for osmosis and dissolving inorganic salts and do not have the correct index of refraction for lithographic focus. Water is the cheapest and best resource for this , even after factoring in all purity requirements .
Wish I coulda seen your face as you were saying the power of friendship line. Heard you voice raise a good bit but couldn’t hear you crack a smile. How many times did you have to record that part?
Thanks Asianometry for the overview. The land use value matrix analysis was insightful.
The current massive fab shop building programs in Arizona are still a bit puzzling to me. The USA Great Lakes offer an abundant supply of water that is low in dissolved minerals, esp Na.
Not only water, electricity is also a problem. The demand for elecity will be high as it used for fab and water treatment. Water and electricity is reason why it's better to build high tech chip fab on mainland rather than on a small island (make much morse sense in term of available resources).
Either I missed it or I did not understand correctly but the water used is not lost. So 100% of the water going in is also going out right? I assume that the contaminated water can be recycled almost 100% if they develop or construct better purification plants.
I don't understand why there isn't a company who just purifies the water for the Fab location for payment. The fabs have large demand for clean enough water and high supply of polluted water. There has to be a way to make it a closed loop.
Incredible analysis
Alaska.... abundant water, and lots of natural gas for energy, lower Temperatures also allow for cheap cooling of server farms.....
Thanks. I didn't realize how much water it takes to make semi-conductors.
is that the future? is the "amount of water in circulation" going to be an important number as we require more of it?
Outstanding. Thank you.
Wondering why distilling sea water in a massive scale with the solar heat would not work? The byproduct of such a distillation would yield lithium that can be used to create batteries that can again power the distillation during nights or cloudy days.
It would be extremely expensive. Water shortages aren't shortages in the sense of to here not being enough water. The shortage is a shortage of cheap water.
@@lobsterbark Today, initial large capital investments are the norm for every resource. Because human consumptions have gone astronomical. Gone are the days of free natural resources from mother nature without any initial investments.
They can filter air to acceptable levels so they should be able to reuse water after filtering - purify it.
Very interesting as usual, thank you. I think that it could be interesting to do a video on ressources per product manufacturing as of 2021 (pc, smartphones, connected appliances), and the historical evolution. It’s a very hot topic for which it is hard to find proper source data. Might be a good gateway for new viewers on your channel. I wish you the best
I'm wondering if for graphene based electronics that is in research now water usage is a problem too?
Has chip density cost robustness and should we scale back for longevity if it does? Other alternatives?
Could build several chip gab foundries on Greenland and Antarctica. I'll go.
I think I've discovered the answer to the water problem, after they use the water, they should run it back through their filters and use it again...
it was intriguing why Semiconductors and water shortages were interlinked. understood now. thanks a lot for sharing.
Set up a foundry in Ireland, stable and wet.