I remember someone was messing with me pretty intensely at work once and I had a shorter temper then. I told God, "I'm angry Lord. I'm going to get up and attack this guy soon unless I really feel like you're telling me not to. I'm going to flip this coin 5 times and if its not 5 heads I'm getting up and hitting him." I meant it. I got 5 heads. I was very disappointed. Since then I feel like God has told me not to do something like that again and instead try to learn to listen to the Holy Spirit.
I had the exact question some days ago! Thanks for the faithful answer Desiring God team and Job Piper, may God bless and protect your trip to South America!
But God ultimately desires a relationship with us, casting lots is not a good way to do that. He would much rather we spend time reading his words and speaking to him in prayer, so that we know and hear him better. Plus casting lots happens before the holy spirit comes, after the upper room, there shouldn't be a need for it anymore. (Acts 2:17)
@@markdurdle7710 I agree with you, The Holy Spirit is a better counselor than a coin or casting of lots. But what I also understand from this verse is that even if our relationship with God isn’t the best or an unbeliever makes a decision by a coin flip, ultimately God is still directing the show whether it’s for our blessing, learning or to keep us from self harm. Ultimately God wants us talking to Him all the time and relying on His wisdom, grace and understanding.
Sometimes we are in a situation where there are two options and after having applied all spiritual discernment and bathing it in prayer we conclude that both these two options are godly and wise. Neither is more godly or wise than the other. This is the situation that was present in Acts 1. In these situations, we are just free to pick one of these two options. And if we choose to flip a coin to decide it, that's alright
The thing to understand about the apostles using lots to determine between two solid candidates whom they had already vetted is that this was not a mindless toss-up, but a way of honoring God's omnipotence when they had reached the end of their human discernment. Either choice would have been worthy from their perspective at the point they determined to cast lots.
This is an amazing video GOD bless you for making it.. I was told to cast lots to make a decision... I casted and I got a result that I did not want. I then watched this video. I then prayed to GOD and casted another lot to see if I should go to work tomorrow and GOD said through the casting of the lot that I should not. So after doing this I realized that casting lots is not going to give you reliable answers from Jesus. So if you do try to live your live like this.. it is risky and you are running the risk of making a bad decision, one that you do not agree with and one that GOD potentially does not agree with.
I use it for forks in the road when there is no way to know biblically God's will. Example should I be patient or chasten in this moment. But I do not test The Lord with it. If I ask if Jesus is Lord by casting lots that is tempting The Lord. You have to understand it and I do. I could teach a class on it but I agree most ppl without extensive training would do worse by using it.
If God has meticulously determined everything that has happened or ever will happen then isn't He meticulously determining the number that will appear when an individual cast lots? Be consistent in your Calvinism John!
It seems to me that the point at the beginning - how lots were cast to portion the land of the tribes of Israel - was spot on as a foundation: the 12 apostles were chosen in that way to point to the 12 tribes, and even states that the 12 are the gates. The 12 were Jews, that's for sure, but I'm sure God's hand was behind it. It doesn't mean we should follow that example, as Pastor John says. Let's grow up into the glory of God.
1. Umim and Thummim. 2. People arent depending on the coin. They are depending on God. They pray to GOD before doing so and are relying on GOD to sovereignly decide as per Gods control. 3. As far as morality, sure. We have all the answers in Scriptures and the Holy Spirits discernment. However, there are obscure decisions that arent so much moral as it is about other things. Things the scriptures doesn't talk about. A business decision relationship decisions. perhaps whether or not to avoid a thing/event or to proceed etc . 4. Whats wrong with relying on God to give us an answer for security through a coin toss? That person is relying on GOD alone. not the coin not chance, bot spirits or "the universe" but GOD. Not a "rabbits foot" for luck (irrelevant to the convo). 5. Are we not fellowshipoing with God when we pray and ask and seek his will? He doesnt seem to speak audibly or show up and speak to us face to face as with a friend like with Moses and Abraham, but we know every flip of a coin is determined by him, so some trust in Him to speak and communicate in this way. I can go on and would LOVE to discuss further. I do not condone or reject it. I am simply discussing it objectively. Thanks.
Agreed not as a normal means. We have scripture to guide us. That being said there are no such thing as chance. There is no rouge molecules. ...everything is held on coarse by his will so that nothing can be "chance". So I still wonder after scripture, prayer and meditating on a critical decision and assuming there is nothing inherently evil in either decision might casting "lots" be useful. Just a thought
you can go to their website: www.desiringgod.org and search for ask pastor John there. I'm sure you'll find the link about submitting your own questions. :D
Who is sovereign over chance/luck? God. The reasons the bible warns against gambling is because of the nature wherein its to gain money ec. The disciples cast lots knowing that it was God who chose the outcome also not making up their mind before casting it. Its an interesting subject and i wouldn't move it aside as easily since the disciples did do it.
I think a little more needs to be said and I don't think I would dismiss this quite as easily. The one asking the question wondered if it felt like witchcraft. Feelings are not a determination and nearly every instance of casting lots in scripture was for big issues by righteous people (the casting of lots for Jesus' garments).
+Marty Blackham..Jesus said.."Obey MY Commandments and Seek ME and MY Righteousness FIRST." Jesus Gives us DIRECT personal revelation to Help us do whatever we ask. Paul said.."Obeying commandments will not save you. You need a church..a group of Titled men with a Hierachy to tell you what to believe." I would say there is a Big difference! And Christians follow Paul..but Seeking Jesus is Far Superior. Jesus also said..Live day by day. Dont live in the Past..it is Past. "Suffcient unto the Day is the evil therof." we are not to live OT mans commandments. Jesus corrected the Pharisees on this too. Stay with your Piper. I will Stay with Jesus..thank you. it was Paul who said the bible was God -breathed. It was NOT Jesus. You really need to learn to discriminate..who said what. Did you forget Who is God?
Well He definitely could, but I think the more appropriate question (that is, your intended question) is whether or not He would. I think it all goes back to scripture though. Romans 8 says to be "transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God," so I'd say that you can't really discern God's will without a renewed mind in Christ. Obviously, with that discernment would come an understanding in what is to be sought after in a wife, but I'm still hesitant to say that God would show a man his future wife just because. There'd have to be a good reason for doing it.
I knew of an aquaintance in college who had a dream one night. He believed it was God telling him that he would marry a certain girl he once knew but hadn't been close to for a while. He was so confident in this that he called her the next day and told her everything, including the part about them being married. It turns out that God was speaking to her heart at the very same time about him. They married very soon after. They are still married today (12 years later) with kids. I don't know why God brought it about in this way but it seems He did.
You, foolish one, do not know how to read the Scriptures. I have seen your comments and your poorly presented arguments. You do need to to think Piper is great, but you must know how the canon of Scripture works. You base all of your flagrant claims on that we should follow Jesus' words in Mt. 5-7 and not on Paul, who met Jesus and was called to be one of his apostles. How can you trust the words of Matthew? They were diligently copied and meticulously handed down through the generations. We can now know with surety that what we have is accurate because of the vast numbers of varied copies. Likewise, we can know with certainty that we have Peter's words accurately when he calls Paul's writings "Scripture" (2 Pet. 3:15-16). Peter seems to have spent more time with Jesus than Matthew (whose words you trust) and he condemns the way you comment on TH-cam in those verses. I would be much more careful to read and much more hesitant to defy believers of Jesus (including Peter) who understood Paul's words to be equally imparted by God the Father as any other Scripture. Old Testament and New included.
+Dani J..I have read the entire bible cover to cover..with Jesus Help. He said to Seek HIS Righteousness First. I Do. He showed me the Truth. He chose Matthew (an accountant by trade) to give the most accurate account. Peter was a hothead who denied Jesus..chopped off a Roman soldier ear (Jesus had to heal) and tempted Jesus to do the wrong thing. Paul never even Met Jesus. Jesus was already gone in person. Paul was a murdering Pharisee who had to be knocked off his horse..and still couldn't see. Bible people are sinners and beggars..no better than the rest of us. There opinions are no more important than anyone else's..EXCEPT Jesus. why don't you just Humble yourself and Do What Jesus said. And He said to Seek HIM..Not a man like Piper who preaches Paul and throws Jesus under the bus. It was Paul who said the bible was God-breathed..NOT Jesus. You need to be more discriminating about who said what and Who they are. Your opinion of me means nothing!
there was only 3 views but 5 likes, thats how good Pastor John is
I remember someone was messing with me pretty intensely at work once and I had a shorter temper then. I told God, "I'm angry Lord. I'm going to get up and attack this guy soon unless I really feel like you're telling me not to. I'm going to flip this coin 5 times and if its not 5 heads I'm getting up and hitting him." I meant it. I got 5 heads. I was very disappointed.
Since then I feel like God has told me not to do something like that again and instead try to learn to listen to the Holy Spirit.
I had the exact question some days ago! Thanks for the faithful answer Desiring God team and Job Piper, may God bless and protect your trip to South America!
Proverbs 16:33 "The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD"
But God ultimately desires a relationship with us, casting lots is not a good way to do that. He would much rather we spend time reading his words and speaking to him in prayer, so that we know and hear him better. Plus casting lots happens before the holy spirit comes, after the upper room, there shouldn't be a need for it anymore. (Acts 2:17)
@@markdurdle7710 I agree with you, The Holy Spirit is a better counselor than a coin or casting of lots. But what I also understand from this verse is that even if our relationship with God isn’t the best or an unbeliever makes a decision by a coin flip, ultimately God is still directing the show whether it’s for our blessing, learning or to keep us from self harm. Ultimately God wants us talking to Him all the time and relying on His wisdom, grace and understanding.
Sometimes we are in a situation where there are two options and after having applied all spiritual discernment and bathing it in prayer we conclude that both these two options are godly and wise. Neither is more godly or wise than the other. This is the situation that was present in Acts 1.
In these situations, we are just free to pick one of these two options. And if we choose to flip a coin to decide it, that's alright
God reveals His will for us on a daily basis . Small bits at a time.
His will is in His Word.
In Joshua they cast lots to find who took the treasure
The thing to understand about the apostles using lots to determine between two solid candidates whom they had already vetted is that this was not a mindless toss-up, but a way of honoring God's omnipotence when they had reached the end of their human discernment. Either choice would have been worthy from their perspective at the point they determined to cast lots.
Theme song always gets me going!!!
This is an amazing video GOD bless you for making it.. I was told to cast lots to make a decision... I casted and I got a result that I did not want. I then watched this video. I then prayed to GOD and casted another lot to see if I should go to work tomorrow and GOD said through the casting of the lot that I should not. So after doing this I realized that casting lots is not going to give you reliable answers from Jesus. So if you do try to live your live like this.. it is risky and you are running the risk of making a bad decision, one that you do not agree with and one that GOD potentially does not agree with.
I use it for forks in the road when there is no way to know biblically God's will. Example should I be patient or chasten in this moment. But I do not test The Lord with it. If I ask if Jesus is Lord by casting lots that is tempting The Lord. You have to understand it and I do. I could teach a class on it but I agree most ppl without extensive training would do worse by using it.
That was a great explanation.
If God has meticulously determined everything that has happened or ever will happen then isn't He meticulously determining the number that will appear when an individual cast lots? Be consistent in your Calvinism John!
Great video
Wish them safe journey may GodAlmighty bless them.
It seems to me that the point at the beginning - how lots were cast to portion the land of the tribes of Israel - was spot on as a foundation: the 12 apostles were chosen in that way to point to the 12 tribes, and even states that the 12 are the gates.
The 12 were Jews, that's for sure, but I'm sure God's hand was behind it. It doesn't mean we should follow that example, as Pastor John says. Let's grow up into the glory of God.
1. Umim and Thummim.
2. People arent depending on the coin. They are depending on God. They pray to GOD before doing so and are relying on GOD to sovereignly decide as per Gods control.
3. As far as morality, sure. We have all the answers in Scriptures and the Holy Spirits discernment. However, there are obscure decisions that arent so much moral as it is about other things. Things the scriptures doesn't talk about. A business decision relationship decisions. perhaps whether or not to avoid a thing/event or to proceed etc .
4. Whats wrong with relying on God to give us an answer for security through a coin toss? That person is relying on GOD alone. not the coin not chance, bot spirits or "the universe" but GOD. Not a "rabbits foot" for luck (irrelevant to the convo).
5. Are we not fellowshipoing with God when we pray and ask and seek his will? He doesnt seem to speak audibly or show up and speak to us face to face as with a friend like with Moses and Abraham, but we know every flip of a coin is determined by him, so some trust in Him to speak and communicate in this way.
I can go on and would LOVE to discuss further.
I do not condone or reject it. I am simply discussing it objectively. Thanks.
Is casting lots not a form of divination?
Welcome to the comment section!
Agreed not as a normal means. We have scripture to guide us. That being said there are no such thing as chance. There is no rouge molecules. ...everything is held on coarse by his will so that nothing can be "chance". So I still wonder after scripture, prayer and meditating on a critical decision and assuming there is nothing inherently evil in either decision might casting "lots" be useful. Just a thought
Scriptures say the answer of the lot is from god. How can you say gods answer glorifies chance?
Your right, Proverbs 16:33. This video is very confusing
Doing my research, this was before the Holy Spirit so after the Holy Spirit this wasn’t needed.
Thank you for this. I came here after reading Leviticus 16
Are you on spotify?
Hey, how can I get my question to Ask Pastor John? I'm in need of guidance..
you can go to their website: www.desiringgod.org
and search for ask pastor John there. I'm sure you'll find the link about submitting your own questions. :D
@@animaticToshiue thank you, let me look.
Pastor John, please make an updated video about your views on marijuana
Jeff Durbin from Apologia studios already did and he is spot on.
Who is sovereign over chance/luck? God. The reasons the bible warns against gambling is because of the nature wherein its to gain money ec. The disciples cast lots knowing that it was God who chose the outcome also not making up their mind before casting it. Its an interesting subject and i wouldn't move it aside as easily since the disciples did do it.
I think a little more needs to be said and I don't think I would dismiss this quite as easily. The one asking the question wondered if it felt like witchcraft. Feelings are not a determination and nearly every instance of casting lots in scripture was for big issues by righteous people (the casting of lots for Jesus' garments).
Someone has been watching No Country for Old Men
when are they gonna be at São Paulo? I waanna be there
+Marty Blackham..Jesus said.."Obey MY Commandments and Seek ME and MY Righteousness FIRST." Jesus Gives us DIRECT personal revelation to Help us do whatever we ask. Paul said.."Obeying commandments will not save you. You need a church..a group of Titled men with a Hierachy to tell you what to believe." I would say there is a Big difference! And Christians follow Paul..but Seeking Jesus is Far Superior. Jesus also said..Live day by day. Dont live in the Past..it is Past. "Suffcient unto the Day is the evil therof." we are not to live OT mans commandments. Jesus corrected the Pharisees on this too. Stay with your Piper. I will Stay with Jesus..thank you. it was Paul who said the bible was God -breathed. It was NOT Jesus. You really need to learn to discriminate..who said what. Did you forget Who is God?
When they were casting lots replacing the 12th disciple could be viewed as simply a vote
Can i ask a question?...... Can God show someone not ready for marriage yet perhaps a college student who his wife is or will be
Well He definitely could, but I think the more appropriate question (that is, your intended question) is whether or not He would. I think it all goes back to scripture though. Romans 8 says to be "transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God," so I'd say that you can't really discern God's will without a renewed mind in Christ. Obviously, with that discernment would come an understanding in what is to be sought after in a wife, but I'm still hesitant to say that God would show a man his future wife just because. There'd have to be a good reason for doing it.
@@Stanzi18 Hmmm. Things to ponder on. Thanks for responding..
@@Stanzi18 Although I will still appreciate if pastor piper can answer in future
I knew of an aquaintance in college who had a dream one night. He believed it was God telling him that he would marry a certain girl he once knew but hadn't been close to for a while. He was so confident in this that he called her the next day and told her everything, including the part about them being married. It turns out that God was speaking to her heart at the very same time about him. They married very soon after. They are still married today (12 years later) with kids. I don't know why God brought it about in this way but it seems He did.
Please command us
Hey!
Sup
This question is perfectly worded to mean: is god just another way of saying chance?
Because... yes.. Yes it is
Does feel like witchcraft.
No.
Flipping a coin is probably just as valid as Pipers teachings. Go for it! Piper does not even Teach Jesus. He teaches Paul's "other way."
You, foolish one, do not know how to read the Scriptures. I have seen your comments and your poorly presented arguments. You do need to to think Piper is great, but you must know how the canon of Scripture works. You base all of your flagrant claims on that we should follow Jesus' words in Mt. 5-7 and not on Paul, who met Jesus and was called to be one of his apostles. How can you trust the words of Matthew? They were diligently copied and meticulously handed down through the generations. We can now know with surety that what we have is accurate because of the vast numbers of varied copies. Likewise, we can know with certainty that we have Peter's words accurately when he calls Paul's writings "Scripture" (2 Pet. 3:15-16). Peter seems to have spent more time with Jesus than Matthew (whose words you trust) and he condemns the way you comment on TH-cam in those verses. I would be much more careful to read and much more hesitant to defy believers of Jesus (including Peter) who understood Paul's words to be equally imparted by God the Father as any other Scripture. Old Testament and New included.
So you're saying Paul didn't treach Jesus kathleen? That's hilarious!!
Go away.
+Dani J..I have read the entire bible cover to cover..with Jesus Help. He said to Seek HIS Righteousness First. I Do. He showed me the Truth. He chose Matthew (an accountant by trade) to give the most accurate account. Peter was a hothead who denied Jesus..chopped off a Roman soldier ear (Jesus had to heal) and tempted Jesus to do the wrong thing. Paul never even Met Jesus. Jesus was already gone in person. Paul was a murdering Pharisee who had to be knocked off his horse..and still couldn't see. Bible people are sinners and beggars..no better than the rest of us. There opinions are no more important than anyone else's..EXCEPT Jesus. why don't you just Humble yourself and Do What Jesus said. And He said to Seek HIM..Not a man like Piper who preaches Paul and throws Jesus under the bus. It was Paul who said the bible was God-breathed..NOT Jesus. You need to be more discriminating about who said what and Who they are. Your opinion of me means nothing!
How is Jesus word meant to spread without people then?!?!