It's not even immortal issue. Even lower ranks are full of smurfs and hired boosters who spam double down token. Legend rank is literally 2 smurfs vs 3 smurfs everygame in eu server
tbh i think the reason so many people are immortal because the mmr spread is very high. like 5k ish to 11k is considered immortal, compared to 1-900: herald, 900-1900 guardian etc (i forgot the number). valve could introduce new medals for people above divine to fix the immortal population issue, but yeah nothing could solve those account buyer problem lmaoo
@@fatperuvian2980 Getting rid of double down tokens, calibration activation system and being more strict with rank decay will significantly lower the amount of account buying and selling.
This is just utterly abysmal interpretation of the data on your part, the reason why the immortal column encompasses such a large proportion of the overall player base, as shown on the histogram at 1:07 is very simple, and its because of the disproportionally large range of mmr values that it contains, while the entire archon range (meaning columns 1-5) represent a range of mmr from 2310 - 3079 mmr points (as of october 2024) the singular depicted immortal column depicts mmr range beginning from roughly 5.5k to approximately 15k, so its completely natural that this wide range of mmr values will also contain a large number of players, if you were to edit the histogram and slice up the immortal column into numerous columns representing smaller ranges, than it would graphically approximately match normal distribution similarly to the rank distribution in csgo, obviously it isn't going to follow normal distribution perfectly, but it will be good enough.
add more ranks leading to the numbered immortals and... people will still complain so cut the mmr numbers in 4 and... people will still complain so add a new system to prevent mmr bloating and hard reset the mmr to start fresh and... people will still complain and the list goes on, this over-the-top data interpretation on the amount of immortals highlights the problem, why the actual f should the highest dota 2 rank be a 10k gap when all other ranks combined are 5.5k?
@@МёртваяБелка simple, valve shouldn't do what people want, they should do what is healthy for the game. League of legends has a healthy and balanced ladder with mandatory rank resets & mmr calibration, an elo rating that is 1/10 of dota's and powerful rank decay that only gets stronger as you progress to the ranks. The result? Challenger is a serious and meaningfull achievement, that was the reason most of the pro players were able to get in the pro scene.
1:08 that's not even true. The highest rank Dota has to offer is Immortal Top 1, only one person has it. You give players finite ranks and they complain that there is nowhere to grow, you give them numbered ranks and they still complain...
I remember times when immortals were considered actually people that were genuinely good at the game. These days they are comparable to divine rank creeps that just know how to farm. When I play against immortals these days I don't even feel their presence in the game. I have a few high ranked immortal friends and the amount of presence they have in any particular game is insane even not on their main roles or heroes.
Ultimately I agree with you, but that makes sense because that was the main bit of advice always given to lower rank players back in the day. If you hit creeps faster than the opponent you will win more games. So that's what people learned. It's tangible. Easy to see when you have more or less CS, easy to practice, and low effort. Decision making, game sense, itemization, positioning, map awareness. Those are all much harder to learn so people don't want to practice or don't have the time to practice those things as much, and the benefits aren't as tangible. There isn't a number in the top left telling you good job look at the CS you have at 10 minutes. Patting you on the back 😂.
when are people gonna make the basic logical connection that rank in a game where the outcome is often decided by the choices of your teamates -7:00 before the game starts is not exactly a ideal identifier, and the only thing people will use it for is trying to make money.
If you don’t often feel the presence of Immortal players in your games, it’s because IceFrog has done an incredible job balancing the game and its mechanics. In most cases, as long as your team has solid teamwork and understands the basics, you should be able to handle an Immortal opponent. However, if they focus and play as a coordinated team, their presence will eventually be felt. As an Immortal 8k player teaming up with four Herald friends, my win rate is still below 50% against Legend or Archon opponents. Teamwork > Medals. Don’t believe me? Try playing solo against a coordinated 5-man party.
there are distribution actually. low Immortal, High Immortal, Numbered Immortals (not sure if this is the same as high immo) and the highest-- pro players
because you still take into account 1 of the things Blitz said: no rank reset, so this enables account buying since boosters can easily pick an account up to 5,6k in a matter of days, and when Medals were implemented, Valve most likely did it taking into account current playerbase MMR, which at the time was barely 6k-7k MMR. No MMR reset allowed players to slowly climb more MMR, thanks to both one's own prowess and the inyection of bad players that bought a high level account that allows these high level players to have easier games over time.
Some of the problems about the immortal rank that I can think of are: 1) Smurfing, top 300 players in every region have around 3-4 acc that they grind to either practice (miracle with his 10+ accs) or sell de acc. 2) Wintrading, in order to inflate their main acc top players (especially in SA, China and SEA) convince other immortal players to sabotage games when they are queued up against each other (for example k1 hector the SA pos 1 pro player). 3) Recalibration is broken, I have seen Immortal players get archon and say F it, just open another acc till they can recalibrate again.
Also win trade became really prominent because of double downs. There's just no drawbacks: one receive 2x MMR, other lose some as usual, and then they swap and repeat. And by that, you have one of the most efficient methods for boosting accs to sell them
Double down is the worst thing that happened to this game. It's used for degenerate gambling behaviour or wintrade abuse. Lets give free tokens that make boosting low rank accounts twice as easier
To fix this problem, we have to acknowledge the problem first. Good point on mentioning account buying and the lack of hard rank reset. You also have to consider that some or most pro players have an alt account. Some have 3-4 alt accounts that are just sitting in Immortal. I think Valve already did something with account buying, however they have not fixed account boosting. A friend of mine was able to hire someone from overseas. They played his account and it got to immortal. Those individuals are either very good at the game or they use some hacks so they would be paired against someone who are bad or intentionally throws the game (this exists in fact one fraud Dota2 youtuber got called out for this practice). These hired individuals don't rush the climb cause otherwise the account will be reported for climbing too fast. For pros having multiple accounts. I think Valve did something about this as well, however it got reverted so pros were able to play alt accounts again. This ties to account buying as well. These issues are difficult to fix without forcefully tapping into someone's IP. Hard reset would be great and the rank down should be regulated. For Divine ranks and below. You will only lose 4 stars. So, let's say if you are Divine 5, you will be brought down to Divine 1. Ancient 5 becomes Ancient 1. But if you are in immortal, you will lose the immortal title and start all over at Divine 1. There will be one side games or stomps, sure. But players will eventually adapt because the exposure with a pros, will elevate their next game.
The new account calibration + glicko recalibration is really screwing dota2 up. You can easily get a new account to 7k mmr and sell it and ruin ranked games around the 7k-10k bracket. That bracket is absolutely unplayable. They have to do something about it but knowing valve, they will probably just release some new skins to fund Gabens yacht collection.
Dota just needs some more ranks. Like when you say the same amount of people are between 3,080 and 3,233MMR as there are between 5,600 and 16,000MMR it sounds pretty reasonable. The bigger issue is 3/4 MMR is encapsulated in 1 badge.
As a 6400 mmr immortal solo support player i can say that i stopped playing dota like 2 months ago to take a rest from the game. There's so much brain dead people on immortal rank, lol.
Naaah, why would we reset a system where number 1 rank player have 15000 mmr and immortal starts from 5700 mmr, nah don't hurt professional players feelings, surely there is difference between 12K mmr and 15K mmr - my a** difference, they are totally the same. In high immortal ranks doesn't even matter anymore, system sucks, rank 200 can beat rank 50, it would be very interesting to watch a race for mmr every year like it was race for 9k mmr. These super high mmr are just nonsensical. Bring that back + add 1 more rank after Divine. And bring back MMR shaming, numbers are interesting, not ranks. But first - HARD RESET.
About that immortal thing. My account had been inactive for about 5 years. I play dota again and I see they added a win/loss ratio thing right? Uh.... I played a lot, long, LONG before the win loss ratio was public and when valve made that system they counted BOT ONLY, BOT CO OP, AND PRIVATE GAMES towards that statistic. So now my co op bot games and ability draft/tower defense/boss battle games are counted towards my rank and thats so dumb. Best dumbest thing? leaving custom games and such counted as a WIN in that system. So playing the dota 2 diablo mod in custom games gave me like 100 or 200 wins on its own.
so i wasn't delusional believing i get account buyers every other game i play. cuz 1 game i get people who pick good heroes, play lane well, communicate like normal people, don't steal farm and pay attention to the farming route of carry, tp to fights, are good at spell casting, and then in the very next game i ask my pos 5 to pull the small camp and he leaves lane and goes afk as the pos 5 Phantom Assassin...
I'm new to the game so I haven't been able to play rank and stuff but in league (a game if used to play for more than 10 years) there's a similar problem everyone is challenger now when before Diamond II players where only the 0.2% of the player base and you still needed to climb through Master and Grandmaster to arrive to Challenger.
They should just add a 1MMR tax (either for winner/loser team, depending on what they determine to be more enjoyable) to games they consider to be higher-than-desired MMR. Problem balances itself out over time due to higher MMR decaying slowly and brackets merging back together again
To solve the problem with acc sellers steam just have to bind your account with the ID of your country. Done, no more bullshit, you just have one account and if you try to bypass your main gets banned.
medal or number doesnt matter if matchmaking is mmr based, and inmortal games on high level with 1 or 2 acc buyers feel awful to play, its just matchfixing with DD tokens that made the problems more extreme
i also think the account sellers are a heavy problem in hight ranked too i seen like 2-4 accounts that were immortals just 3 weeks ago after falling all teh way down to acients
I haven't played any ranked match since turbo came out, but recently I tried a few ranked matches, it threw me in immortal bracket even though the last time I played ranked, I struggled in the 5k mmr mark
i think rank should just go back to numbers. they did the same with CS2 where medals only applied for each map but if you are playing premiere then your rank will be just numbers.
How do I get out of the rank where people don't understand basic mechanics and literally make the worst decisions I've ever seen? Otherwise known as Crusader? Cause I've been bouncing between crusader 3-5 constantly, got to Archon once and then got forced back down because of bad game after bad game when it was just completely one-sided each time.
Was hard stuck at legend 3 after recalibration in 2023... hit recalibration... went from legend 3 to divine 5 within 2months and now I'm hard stuck between divine 3-5 😢😢 literally just lost my last game at divine 5 which would have put me to immortal after a 12win streak and I know what coming if I play another rank game lol constant losses all the way to divine 3 than wins again....
Definitely add rank decay, I used to be immortal back when I played with my bud october and siractionslacks, honestly that very same patch took me out of it.
Afaik rank decay only goes into effect if you literally don't play the game for years. I stopped playing in 2020 and came back in late 2022 with less than 1k mmr than before(4.5k down to 3.5k).
I remember being rank 2500 Europe but now I’m 8.3 and not even a number rank. Some pro player gonna hit 20k mmr before valve starts to care at all. Just buy double down tokens and an average level player can hit 10k. It’s actually sad to see valve ruin ranked matchmaking for some extra casg
How to fix it . Simple every rank match give you the same +/- 25 point depend if you win or lose. rather than give the exact same point to all rank. instead give less point if win & lose more if defeated to higher rank player. Then it will balanced things out.
probly should add another division after immortal like 7K or something IDK. I do like the idea of a soft reset to recalibrate after every 12-18 months or so. keep it fresh and give ppl a reason to come back to the game. ive heard from a lotta ppl that once they get immortal, they pretty much lose their motivation to keep playing, and they quit. There has to be a way to retain players
And in dota I get turbo players in immortal bracket it because the dd tokens getting 7k mmr at my time was something like world top 2300 nowadays you need to get 8.3k mmr to get numbers and to reach top 2.3k you it almost 9k if not 10k but thanks for the mmr bubble
there is a ton of immortals due to phone binding scam. Now there is just a lot of dead accounts of those who scammed ranked system and then realised that they are just too bad to play/lost interest to play. But mmr inflation is rly high, and i believe Valve would do smth about it in 2025.
I think season medals is a great idea, also they need to add more medals after 6k, a new one for every +1k. I started playing rankeda now and they put me in archon 2 and guess what? I'm on a 5 win streak winning 100 mmr per match since the game knows I dont deserve the medal I was put in. They need to review all this ranked system cause a 6k mmr is a immortal the same as a 15k mmr
its just mmr inflation from double down tokens the skill difference is still present i mean 15k and 5800 are not the same level of skill, i think they need hard reset on the mmr completely
the medals have not added anything. you enter immortal at like 5.8k mmr, but the record highest mmr has gone from 9k to 15k over the years. Isnt it silly that the medal system is quantified with numbers in the first place? The medals are a lot less accurate and meaningless than a specific number, and especially so with Immortal which just keeps getting new players because the bar to enter has forever STAYED at 5.8k, while players mmr keeps getting inflated. Atp either the medals or the number should be removed, they conflict with the other
Yeah, just make the current ranks proportions of the total current mmr range. The only downside is that the rank up/down point will be a little volatile and change quite a bit, which is fine by me. The big issue is that the ranks are just set in stone mmr ranges that don't adapt to the systems overall mmr growth.
i have been bouncing between archon and ancient for a year now. I know its for a fact that im losing only because of my allies are bad...how can i buy immortal account without getting scammed? reddit or steam forums dont allow this kind of post. im suppose to immortal rank but this account is flagged for double down token uses and now valve giving me shitty allies so i keep spamming tokens
right at the end of the video it's crystal clear why there are many people in the immortal rank, people are making a living out of selling accounts. What we need is semi-professional tournaments so these people can motivate themselves to make a living playing tournaments instead. At the end of the day the core of the problem is the matchmaking system which allows rank 3000 play games with rank 11.
And where will those tournaments money prizes come from, you own pocket? Account selling is illegal and bannable. Hosting amateur tournaments for that level will just fuel something that shouldn't be allowed. The most sensible solution is just seasonal MMR reset.
Or, hear me out, ban Steam accounts that are easly recognized as smurf accs, even Stratz which is an external site to Valve has a system that can easly recognize probable/possible smurf accounts simply based on some paramenters (how old is the acc, how many hours on Dota and the rank the acc is, the speed at which the acc is climbing ranks, analyzing the scores of the games that acc plays etc..) it can easly be done by Valve, but they are too asleep or are afraid of losing players, really pathetic. There will never be a case in which a player reaches a high rank by having like 200 victories and will not be a smurf, 99% of the time you see an account with very low games numbers and high rank it is either a smurf or an account buyer, you didnt simply just met a newborn champion of which you have a chance of meeting of like 1/ 1 million. So yeah, it really would not be hard to make a system, using IA etc.., to analyze peoples Dota profiles and when gets "too suspicious" (for example, a new acc is created and it starts ranking up very fast) it is automatically recognized as acc buyer or smurfing and gets at least temporarly banned from playing ranked games. Valve sadly is just too retarded to do this and just pretends this cant be done but will have "ban waves" of smurfs accounts that the very next day will buy a new account for 50 euros/dollars and start smurifin again. Its pretty obvious what Valve is doing
I have played a total of 3 months for the past 5 years. I've been wondering why players are way weaker compared to players of the same rank years ago. For reference, I was immortal 7k before I did quit 5 years ago, played for 3 months straight last year after TI. I think this is due to the fact that the gameplay offers way too much resources across the map now, it's easier for someone who got shut down to in lane to come back, and supports can have alot more items than before. Due to this, skill difference have very little effect on gold/xp resources, since someone bad can just go and farm or do something easy to get their needed gold/xp. Added with this glicko, it's really going to be inflated, it felt like I am playing Mobile Legends, because high rank players are so bad at the game, it's hilarious.
If your objective is to prevent account buying, by seasonal resets, then it won't succeed. All you will do is create a market for another service, that provides recalibration.
2 things that happens and I see it happening every day among my friend group #1: we are around 25 dota 2 players and I can confirm there's 17 immortal players Out of 25 The lowest rank is divine 3 You'd say holy shit are you OG academy or some shit No I can confidently say most of them suck so hard at this game Among the entire group there's 4 actually good player that are currently immortal 8k 9k players And like 5 decent dudes but not a pinch above ancient level And the rest complete garbage like actually I don't remember being that bad when I was learning the fking game But we can carry them since there's no difference between solo mmr and party mmr Just give them meta supports occasionally they might actually save you from a shit situation once every 5-6 games but in general since we play with them in low immortal lobbies basically the enemy team is 3k-4k mmr below on average so it's an easy win for them they get hella boosted And that's why you get almost an entire classroom worth of people all immortal "in rank not in skill" #2: which is actually more concerning is that people in my group that are 6k to 7k can queue up with divine players divine 4-5 players and low immortal Which shouldn't be allowed so what happens is the enemy team probably has same line up A 7k player Then couple low immortals And couple divines But the difference is The divines on our team are 9k smurfs Ends up also boosting the 7k guy higher and higher closing on 8k And let me be frank If it was up to me beside the 4 good people in the group No one gets above Legend rank like in actual skill Maybe ancient on their best days when the 2 heroes they can play are extremely broken Slow reflexes no awareness buys same items almost every game has no clue what 70% of the heroes actually do and how to counter sometimes feels like they don't have a minimap their calls and comms are shit but at the end of the day Immortal rank 6k 7k and some now closing in on 8k when they should not be near half as much mmr The system is broken the system can be easily abused The actual real dota starts at 9k almost 10k mmr Where you see almost no account buyers When someone plays bad it's more likely to be having a bad day than him being boosted And the only smurfs you'll encounter are actual pro players which is still a good thing in some regard Playing vs better players improves your gameplay
I'm all for rank resets, just put a yearly badge like counter strike but containing your highest rank achieved something like 2024 - legend 3 Account buyers will need to buy boosting services again and again like in league
I recently reached immortal, id say ive played around 100-200 games of ranked over my whole career of 5.5k hours played, I used to be ancient but ive been playing 5 stack unrankeds with my divine and immortal friends, and then I went solo for some ranked games and climbed there without any problem. I have never felt less achievment for getting a high rank in a video game ever, maybe when I got diamond in heroes of the storm when it was already dead. I dont know ye in my eyes it feels like every bozo is immortal together with the pros and ive played vs pros or ppl that have like 10-20k hours played and even though I am immortal as well I might have as well been herald, the rank just doesnt work as a representation of the skill of the player. Sometimes i play with ppl rank sub 1000 and that is just complete smth else.
I feel like MMR is weirdly inflated. The fact that we keep getting higher "top mmrs" is strange. Like as things are right now we will have someone with 100k MMR granted enough time and no change to the system. We need a change for sure for it to make sense otherwise MMR does lose its meaning. Maybe adopting a seasonal recalibration like is mentioned in this video that other games use will be good. People will get mad but eh think we need to tighten things up a bit
And the top ranks became so ridiculously overtuned. In no other games truly high rank starts at 11000 mmr above the average player. Just a big clown show dota is
Doesn't matchmaking behave differently between rest of the ranks and within immortal? The overpopulation is (probably) not an issue on matchmaking perspective, and any new rank in between would be to just for the game to give you a "step-by-step" improvement feedback. If you hit immortal legitimately, that game doesn't need to give you all this handholding shit, you already understand and are addicted the core assignment of this game, breaking your limits and raising your skill cap. Valve doesn't care to take care of immortal players's progression systems because they think they don't need taking care of to keep playing the game. Toxicity, smurfing and shit are the real problems, and Valve deals it in their own stupid ways. They are kinda allergic to doing whatever rest of the industry does like how Miracle doesn't like playing the same hero consecutively.
Turn brain on, immortal englobes from 5.5k mmr to 15k mmr, is like if you bundle everything from 0 mmr, 5.5k mmr and double it, and the other reason is dota doesnt have a high influx of new player, it's reoccurring players and players who never stopped, meaning that their normally better than a new player, and the final reason is that you can reach immortal with good theory/knowledge and a very okish mechanics, so when something clicks you skyrocket in ranks, be it split pushing, resource managment, position in the map and fights, pressure, forcing the hand of your opponents, laning phase, jungle, itemization, playing around strong timings and heroes, kicking your opponent when he's down. Any one of those you learn in depth will take you higher pretty fast, dota is extremely competitive and well balanced (at least the most balanced moba with this complexity), those who really like the game and want to play to the fullest and be good will literally study this game, i dont know when was the last time i saw a league player really dive that deep into theory besides some superficial, and those who just play for fun get stuck in the middle, that sounds about right for me, league has a very high mechanical ceiling (some theory also but not the focus), so its harder for someone to break through unless their very fast, precisely and with good reactions
Recalibration is also really bad in dota, for eg. I once activated it and won like 75% games of games played and I recalibrated to archon 1 and before that I was archon 3, later I climbed to Archon 5 and activated Rrcalibration again and I won approx. 60% of games and again climbed down do crusader 5... Like what the actual fuck. Never doing in again
The ranks are good as they are, because you can't reach immortal unless you're really good at dota. Yes, immortals 6k mmr are not even close to the level of an immortal 10k mmr, it's true, BUT an immortal 6k mmr still knows Dota very well and plays it very well. He deserves his rank. Creating new ranks would do nothing for the matchmaking or the account buying problem, it would just change the name of your rank, from immortal to whatever the new rank between divine and immortal is named. Or maybe give a new rank to the very best players, like from 9k mmr you're something else than immortal, just like in chess where there are "super GM" (even tho it's not an official rank). Also account buying and boosting exists in any and every game, I've seen boosted players in Diam/Master/Challenger on League much more than I've seen boosted players in Dota Divine/Immortal ranks.
Man I hate immortal draft with all my heart. There are 6k and 10k people in the same game, 5 games of 10 are mmr trading and you can't do shit about it. I am so sick I don't want to play dota anymore ffs
6k and 15k are both immortals. let that sink in
The sink has been let in. I repeat, the sink is now in the building.
And you are stuck in the same rank from past 8 years, yet you still grind the same game even so hoping to rank up.....Let that sink in even deeper!
@@LeoReo88 this comment is relevant, how?
Mmr is also inflated. 9k before is like 14k now.
6k shouldn't be inmortal , add a new medal for that until 10k
"If everyone is Immortal, then no one is"
-- Syndrome
It's not even immortal issue. Even lower ranks are full of smurfs and hired boosters who spam double down token.
Legend rank is literally 2 smurfs vs 3 smurfs everygame in eu server
if valve sleep, game goes to trash
- random idiot on youtube
@@bookmoon7244 cdxd
tbh i think the reason so many people are immortal because the mmr spread is very high. like 5k ish to 11k is considered immortal, compared to 1-900: herald, 900-1900 guardian etc (i forgot the number). valve could introduce new medals for people above divine to fix the immortal population issue, but yeah nothing could solve those account buyer problem lmaoo
nah it's account selling and boosting. I can speak from experience lmao
Yeah, nothing will fix the account selling problem but at least it will make the last rank of dota more important
@@fatperuvian2980 Getting rid of double down tokens, calibration activation system and being more strict with rank decay will significantly lower the amount of account buying and selling.
Or they can just do yearly rank reset
So many people are immo coz of acc buying. every game i play on 7k-8k mmr avrg has atleast 3-4 accbuyers in lobby. immo rn is a 2k mmr pub at best
This is just utterly abysmal interpretation of the data on your part, the reason why the immortal column encompasses such a large proportion of the overall player base, as shown on the histogram at 1:07 is very simple, and its because of the disproportionally large range of mmr values that it contains, while the entire archon range (meaning columns 1-5) represent a range of mmr from 2310 - 3079 mmr points (as of october 2024) the singular depicted immortal column depicts mmr range beginning from roughly 5.5k to approximately 15k, so its completely natural that this wide range of mmr values will also contain a large number of players, if you were to edit the histogram and slice up the immortal column into numerous columns representing smaller ranges, than it would graphically approximately match normal distribution similarly to the rank distribution in csgo, obviously it isn't going to follow normal distribution perfectly, but it will be good enough.
expecting good interpretation from griefer is your fault
add more ranks leading to the numbered immortals and... people will still complain so cut the mmr numbers in 4 and... people will still complain so add a new system to prevent mmr bloating and hard reset the mmr to start fresh and... people will still complain
and the list goes on, this over-the-top data interpretation on the amount of immortals highlights the problem, why the actual f should the highest dota 2 rank be a 10k gap when all other ranks combined are 5.5k?
absolutely agree
Great comment man.. He is a simp after all
@@МёртваяБелка simple, valve shouldn't do what people want, they should do what is healthy for the game. League of legends has a healthy and balanced ladder with mandatory rank resets & mmr calibration, an elo rating that is 1/10 of dota's and powerful rank decay that only gets stronger as you progress to the ranks. The result? Challenger is a serious and meaningfull achievement, that was the reason most of the pro players were able to get in the pro scene.
1:08 that's not even true. The highest rank Dota has to offer is Immortal Top 1, only one person has it. You give players finite ranks and they complain that there is nowhere to grow, you give them numbered ranks and they still complain...
People always complain before thinking
one person per region
Theres 3000 mmr of nothingness between a fresh immortal (5.6k mmr) and rank 5000 (8.3k mmr), so yeah thats like 4-5 medals missing
I remember times when immortals were considered actually people that were genuinely good at the game. These days they are comparable to divine rank creeps that just know how to farm. When I play against immortals these days I don't even feel their presence in the game. I have a few high ranked immortal friends and the amount of presence they have in any particular game is insane even not on their main roles or heroes.
Ultimately I agree with you, but that makes sense because that was the main bit of advice always given to lower rank players back in the day. If you hit creeps faster than the opponent you will win more games. So that's what people learned. It's tangible. Easy to see when you have more or less CS, easy to practice, and low effort. Decision making, game sense, itemization, positioning, map awareness. Those are all much harder to learn so people don't want to practice or don't have the time to practice those things as much, and the benefits aren't as tangible. There isn't a number in the top left telling you good job look at the CS you have at 10 minutes. Patting you on the back 😂.
when are people gonna make the basic logical connection that rank in a game where the outcome is often decided by the choices of your teamates -7:00 before the game starts is not exactly a ideal identifier, and the only thing people will use it for is trying to make money.
@@CatgirlExplise6039never
If you don’t often feel the presence of Immortal players in your games, it’s because IceFrog has done an incredible job balancing the game and its mechanics. In most cases, as long as your team has solid teamwork and understands the basics, you should be able to handle an Immortal opponent. However, if they focus and play as a coordinated team, their presence will eventually be felt.
As an Immortal 8k player teaming up with four Herald friends, my win rate is still below 50% against Legend or Archon opponents. Teamwork > Medals. Don’t believe me? Try playing solo against a coordinated 5-man party.
@@CatgirlExplise6039 cope, when i log on to a crusader account i can solo carry most games
*cries in Guardian*
pick a hc who doesnt depend on team , and easy climb
hc depends on supp, mid is better
anyways valve ruin game, not worth getting rank anymore
@@dangychoice7800 Ursa , juger?
@@dangychoice7800 mid you have to do space make tempo , makes plays, as HC you just hit creeps , kill end game
Mid is harder unless you are really good at mid if not please just don't grief the game
I will add: if Immortal were like the other ranks in that you from from 1-5, the distribution would look a lot more even.
there are distribution actually. low Immortal, High Immortal, Numbered Immortals (not sure if this is the same as high immo) and the highest-- pro players
The distribution will not be even, I will be a mess, like your hair, the top part looks empty
Bar graph looks odd because Immortal isn't distributed into 5 distinct ranks-the total for Immortal players is still less than Divine.
Why is this such a big problem?
There is still the mmr number to tell the difference
Spot on
Divine solo q just before immortal is unplayable bcs of acc buyers
@@qbssen why would divine have so many account buyers. Wouldn’t you buy an account in immortal rather ?
@@ChinaNumbaWonthey buy an immortal account and lose streak their way back to high divine
because you still take into account 1 of the things Blitz said: no rank reset, so this enables account buying since boosters can easily pick an account up to 5,6k in a matter of days, and when Medals were implemented, Valve most likely did it taking into account current playerbase MMR, which at the time was barely 6k-7k MMR. No MMR reset allowed players to slowly climb more MMR, thanks to both one's own prowess and the inyection of bad players that bought a high level account that allows these high level players to have easier games over time.
Some of the problems about the immortal rank that I can think of are:
1) Smurfing, top 300 players in every region have around 3-4 acc that they grind to either practice (miracle with his 10+ accs) or sell de acc.
2) Wintrading, in order to inflate their main acc top players (especially in SA, China and SEA) convince other immortal players to sabotage games when they are queued up against each other (for example k1 hector the SA pos 1 pro player).
3) Recalibration is broken, I have seen Immortal players get archon and say F it, just open another acc till they can recalibrate again.
Also win trade became really prominent because of double downs. There's just no drawbacks: one receive 2x MMR, other lose some as usual, and then they swap and repeat. And by that, you have one of the most efficient methods for boosting accs to sell them
Double down is the worst thing that happened to this game. It's used for degenerate gambling behaviour or wintrade abuse. Lets give free tokens that make boosting low rank accounts twice as easier
MMR inflation .. i've been calling it since spring.
It was already happened during pre rank introduction. NA matchmaking was inflated so bad
its a thing since the past 3 years
valve sleeping is bigger issue
Where do we failed heralds that have played the game for 20+ years? 😅
@@jespersamuelsonmonkeygiga I know 5 heralds that are immortal now and they still play like slowpokes
Everyone is Immortal = More unsatisfied smurfs in lower rankings wanting to climb back up again.
To fix this problem, we have to acknowledge the problem first. Good point on mentioning account buying and the lack of hard rank reset. You also have to consider that some or most pro players have an alt account. Some have 3-4 alt accounts that are just sitting in Immortal.
I think Valve already did something with account buying, however they have not fixed account boosting. A friend of mine was able to hire someone from overseas. They played his account and it got to immortal. Those individuals are either very good at the game or they use some hacks so they would be paired against someone who are bad or intentionally throws the game (this exists in fact one fraud Dota2 youtuber got called out for this practice). These hired individuals don't rush the climb cause otherwise the account will be reported for climbing too fast.
For pros having multiple accounts. I think Valve did something about this as well, however it got reverted so pros were able to play alt accounts again. This ties to account buying as well. These issues are difficult to fix without forcefully tapping into someone's IP.
Hard reset would be great and the rank down should be regulated. For Divine ranks and below. You will only lose 4 stars. So, let's say if you are Divine 5, you will be brought down to Divine 1. Ancient 5 becomes Ancient 1. But if you are in immortal, you will lose the immortal title and start all over at Divine 1.
There will be one side games or stomps, sure. But players will eventually adapt because the exposure with a pros, will elevate their next game.
to fix this problem, valve need to stop sleeping, thats all
@@dangychoice7800 To be fair. They did something. They're just not good enough aka just "band aid solutions".
as an unranked frog i see this as a complete win
The new account calibration + glicko recalibration is really screwing dota2 up. You can easily get a new account to 7k mmr and sell it and ruin ranked games around the 7k-10k bracket. That bracket is absolutely unplayable. They have to do something about it but knowing valve, they will probably just release some new skins to fund Gabens yacht collection.
The system foes exactly what it is supposed to do. We want balanced and fair games but valve optimizes it for drawn out stomps
I am playing dota for more than 15 years now and I have successfully made it down to herald
2:45 Ankles OBLITERATED
Age and a half ago, about 1.5% of all dota players were immortals.
Based on all the sources i can find Immortal Rank is between 1.3 and 1.9% of the players atm.
Dota just needs some more ranks. Like when you say the same amount of people are between 3,080 and 3,233MMR as there are between 5,600 and 16,000MMR it sounds pretty reasonable. The bigger issue is 3/4 MMR is encapsulated in 1 badge.
As a 6400 mmr immortal solo support player i can say that i stopped playing dota like 2 months ago to take a rest from the game. There's so much brain dead people on immortal rank, lol.
Naaah, why would we reset a system where number 1 rank player have 15000 mmr and immortal starts from 5700 mmr, nah don't hurt professional players feelings, surely there is difference between 12K mmr and 15K mmr - my a** difference, they are totally the same. In high immortal ranks doesn't even matter anymore, system sucks, rank 200 can beat rank 50, it would be very interesting to watch a race for mmr every year like it was race for 9k mmr. These super high mmr are just nonsensical. Bring that back + add 1 more rank after Divine. And bring back MMR shaming, numbers are interesting, not ranks. But first - HARD RESET.
Did you just say 12k mmr is no different than 15k mmr? boy you have no idea of the HUGE skill gap these 2 players have.
About that immortal thing. My account had been inactive for about 5 years. I play dota again and I see they added a win/loss ratio thing right? Uh.... I played a lot, long, LONG before the win loss ratio was public and when valve made that system they counted BOT ONLY, BOT CO OP, AND PRIVATE GAMES towards that statistic. So now my co op bot games and ability draft/tower defense/boss battle games are counted towards my rank and thats so dumb. Best dumbest thing? leaving custom games and such counted as a WIN in that system. So playing the dota 2 diablo mod in custom games gave me like 100 or 200 wins on its own.
so i wasn't delusional believing i get account buyers every other game i play. cuz 1 game i get people who pick good heroes, play lane well, communicate like normal people, don't steal farm and pay attention to the farming route of carry, tp to fights, are good at spell casting, and then in the very next game i ask my pos 5 to pull the small camp and he leaves lane and goes afk as the pos 5 Phantom Assassin...
I'm new to the game so I haven't been able to play rank and stuff but in league (a game if used to play for more than 10 years) there's a similar problem everyone is challenger now when before Diamond II players where only the 0.2% of the player base and you still needed to climb through Master and Grandmaster to arrive to Challenger.
They should just add a 1MMR tax (either for winner/loser team, depending on what they determine to be more enjoyable) to games they consider to be higher-than-desired MMR. Problem balances itself out over time due to higher MMR decaying slowly and brackets merging back together again
To solve the problem with acc sellers steam just have to bind your account with the ID of your country. Done, no more bullshit, you just have one account and if you try to bypass your main gets banned.
not me baby, low priority herald 1 til death
God chosen people
medal or number doesnt matter if matchmaking is mmr based, and inmortal games on high level with 1 or 2 acc buyers feel awful to play, its just matchfixing with DD tokens that made the problems more extreme
i also think the account sellers are a heavy problem in hight ranked too i seen like 2-4 accounts that were immortals just 3 weeks ago after falling all teh way down to acients
I haven't played any ranked match since turbo came out, but recently I tried a few ranked matches, it threw me in immortal bracket even though the last time I played ranked, I struggled in the 5k mmr mark
good content blitz, we need seasonal hard reset back from herald, never ending content
When why you should play kez?
We all know that herald 1 is where the real pros are. Everyone can become better but only the chosen ones can have double digit mmr
They already tried seasonal mmr before and it didn't work out.
i think rank should just go back to numbers.
they did the same with CS2 where medals only applied for each map but if you are playing premiere then your rank will be just numbers.
Well since I'm 2K mmr I don't mind any of this anymore
Dang, this video just made me feel worse for sitting at 1k-1500 mmr. Thanks bro.
Immortal is 5k -15k .. it’s not that there’s loads of way better players than you bro.
How do I get out of the rank where people don't understand basic mechanics and literally make the worst decisions I've ever seen? Otherwise known as Crusader? Cause I've been bouncing between crusader 3-5 constantly, got to Archon once and then got forced back down because of bad game after bad game when it was just completely one-sided each time.
ALMOST EVEYBODY IN IMMORTAL RANK IS BUYER NOW )
Was hard stuck at legend 3 after recalibration in 2023... hit recalibration... went from legend 3 to divine 5 within 2months and now I'm hard stuck between divine 3-5 😢😢 literally just lost my last game at divine 5 which would have put me to immortal after a 12win streak and I know what coming if I play another rank game lol constant losses all the way to divine 3 than wins again....
Definitely add rank decay, I used to be immortal back when I played with my bud october and siractionslacks, honestly that very same patch took me out of it.
Afaik rank decay only goes into effect if you literally don't play the game for years. I stopped playing in 2020 and came back in late 2022 with less than 1k mmr than before(4.5k down to 3.5k).
I remember being rank 2500 Europe but now I’m 8.3 and not even a number rank. Some pro player gonna hit 20k mmr before valve starts to care at all. Just buy double down tokens and an average level player can hit 10k. It’s actually sad to see valve ruin ranked matchmaking for some extra casg
Well, I climbed from legend 1 to Divine 5 within year, ill be hitting immo hopefully next weeks
How to fix it . Simple every rank match give you the same +/- 25 point depend if you win or lose. rather than give the exact same point to all rank. instead give less point if win & lose more if defeated to higher rank player. Then it will balanced things out.
probly should add another division after immortal like 7K or something IDK.
I do like the idea of a soft reset to recalibrate after every 12-18 months or so. keep it fresh and give ppl a reason to come back to the game.
ive heard from a lotta ppl that once they get immortal, they pretty much lose their motivation to keep playing, and they quit. There has to be a way to retain players
me too bruh I reached 7k and immediately quit and went cs2 and valorant xd
And in dota I get turbo players in immortal bracket it because the dd tokens getting 7k mmr at my time was something like world top 2300 nowadays you need to get 8.3k mmr to get numbers and to reach top 2.3k you it almost 9k if not 10k but thanks for the mmr bubble
as a 6k player its kind of demoralizing to not have a new title to grind for.
you can grind to gain number on ur medal its like 7k in eu or so
there is a ton of immortals due to phone binding scam. Now there is just a lot of dead accounts of those who scammed ranked system and then realised that they are just too bad to play/lost interest to play.
But mmr inflation is rly high, and i believe Valve would do smth about it in 2025.
Smurfing is a huge problem in dota 2
I think season medals is a great idea, also they need to add more medals after 6k, a new one for every +1k. I started playing rankeda now and they put me in archon 2 and guess what? I'm on a 5 win streak winning 100 mmr per match since the game knows I dont deserve the medal I was put in. They need to review all this ranked system cause a 6k mmr is a immortal the same as a 15k mmr
In other words, they need enough ranks to separate the players since Immortal has an even bigger MMR bracket than every other rank combined 😂
its just mmr inflation from double down tokens the skill difference is still present i mean 15k and 5800 are not the same level of skill, i think they need hard reset on the mmr completely
Why are you playing void blades facet bro?
gaining rank nowadays is easier because of that damn double down token
And yes people are fucking lucky
If they double down 10 straight games won.
I don't really see the issue. You can buy an immortal account but if you are herald skill you will just keep losing until you are herald again
go become immortal. let us old man have fun in archon bracket
but arent there number in immo. immo has its own forest of players
Herald is the new Immortal
the medals have not added anything. you enter immortal at like 5.8k mmr, but the record highest mmr has gone from 9k to 15k over the years.
Isnt it silly that the medal system is quantified with numbers in the first place? The medals are a lot less accurate and meaningless than a specific number, and especially so with Immortal which just keeps getting new players because the bar to enter has forever STAYED at 5.8k, while players mmr keeps getting inflated. Atp either the medals or the number should be removed, they conflict with the other
Very good video my leige
I mean, just make the top 1% of mmr immortal... dump the rest into the ranks below and expand their mmr brackets. Easy fix.
Yeah, just make the current ranks proportions of the total current mmr range. The only downside is that the rank up/down point will be a little volatile and change quite a bit, which is fine by me.
The big issue is that the ranks are just set in stone mmr ranges that don't adapt to the systems overall mmr growth.
Expanding mmr brackets will not solve the issue, it will only prolong the inevitable same end result.
Herald 1 is the peak matchmaking all alonh
i have been bouncing between archon and ancient for a year now. I know its for a fact that im losing only because of my allies are bad...how can i buy immortal account without getting scammed? reddit or steam forums dont allow this kind of post. im suppose to immortal rank but this account is flagged for double down token uses and now valve giving me shitty allies so i keep spamming tokens
skill issue
@@Veneva. yes thats what im saying , my allies skill is too low and its the issue , do u know how to buy immortal account?
I've been a single win away from Legend before going on like a 6 loss streak literally half a dozen times now 😮💨
right at the end of the video it's crystal clear why there are many people in the immortal rank, people are making a living out of selling accounts. What we need is semi-professional tournaments so these people can motivate themselves to make a living playing tournaments instead.
At the end of the day the core of the problem is the matchmaking system which allows rank 3000 play games with rank 11.
valve sleeping, cant fix that
And where will those tournaments money prizes come from, you own pocket? Account selling is illegal and bannable. Hosting amateur tournaments for that level will just fuel something that shouldn't be allowed. The most sensible solution is just seasonal MMR reset.
@@gonxmaster valve is the problem, how can u fix that
Or, hear me out, ban Steam accounts that are easly recognized as smurf accs, even Stratz which is an external site to Valve has a system that can easly recognize probable/possible smurf accounts simply based on some paramenters (how old is the acc, how many hours on Dota and the rank the acc is, the speed at which the acc is climbing ranks, analyzing the scores of the games that acc plays etc..) it can easly be done by Valve, but they are too asleep or are afraid of losing players, really pathetic. There will never be a case in which a player reaches a high rank by having like 200 victories and will not be a smurf, 99% of the time you see an account with very low games numbers and high rank it is either a smurf or an account buyer, you didnt simply just met a newborn champion of which you have a chance of meeting of like 1/ 1 million. So yeah, it really would not be hard to make a system, using IA etc.., to analyze peoples Dota profiles and when gets "too suspicious" (for example, a new acc is created and it starts ranking up very fast) it is automatically recognized as acc buyer or smurfing and gets at least temporarly banned from playing ranked games. Valve sadly is just too retarded to do this and just pretends this cant be done but will have "ban waves" of smurfs accounts that the very next day will buy a new account for 50 euros/dollars and start smurifin again. Its pretty obvious what Valve is doing
I have played a total of 3 months for the past 5 years. I've been wondering why players are way weaker compared to players of the same rank years ago. For reference, I was immortal 7k before I did quit 5 years ago, played for 3 months straight last year after TI. I think this is due to the fact that the gameplay offers way too much resources across the map now, it's easier for someone who got shut down to in lane to come back, and supports can have alot more items than before. Due to this, skill difference have very little effect on gold/xp resources, since someone bad can just go and farm or do something easy to get their needed gold/xp. Added with this glicko, it's really going to be inflated, it felt like I am playing Mobile Legends, because high rank players are so bad at the game, it's hilarious.
If your objective is to prevent account buying, by seasonal resets, then it won't succeed. All you will do is create a market for another service, that provides recalibration.
They should just give us seasonal rank like every other game do
Bruh thumbnail scared meee
Why would you want to buy an account set at a skill level you are not accustomed to??
2 things that happens and I see it happening every day among my friend group
#1: we are around 25 dota 2 players and I can confirm there's 17 immortal players
Out of 25
The lowest rank is divine 3
You'd say holy shit are you OG academy or some shit
No I can confidently say most of them suck so hard at this game
Among the entire group there's 4 actually good player that are currently immortal
8k 9k players
And like 5 decent dudes but not a pinch above ancient level
And the rest complete garbage like actually I don't remember being that bad when I was learning the fking game
But we can carry them since there's no difference between solo mmr and party mmr
Just give them meta supports occasionally they might actually save you from a shit situation once every 5-6 games but in general since we play with them in low immortal lobbies basically the enemy team is 3k-4k mmr below on average so it's an easy win for them they get hella boosted
And that's why you get almost an entire classroom worth of people all immortal "in rank not in skill"
#2: which is actually more concerning is that people in my group that are 6k to 7k can queue up with divine players divine 4-5 players and low immortal
Which shouldn't be allowed so what happens is the enemy team probably has same line up
A 7k player
Then couple low immortals
And couple divines
But the difference is
The divines on our team are 9k smurfs
Ends up also boosting the 7k guy higher and higher closing on 8k
And let me be frank
If it was up to me beside the 4 good people in the group
No one gets above Legend rank like in actual skill
Maybe ancient on their best days when the 2 heroes they can play are extremely broken
Slow reflexes no awareness buys same items almost every game has no clue what 70% of the heroes actually do and how to counter sometimes feels like they don't have a minimap their calls and comms are shit but at the end of the day
Immortal rank 6k 7k and some now closing in on 8k when they should not be near half as much mmr
The system is broken the system can be easily abused
The actual real dota starts at 9k almost 10k mmr
Where you see almost no account buyers
When someone plays bad it's more likely to be having a bad day than him being boosted
And the only smurfs you'll encounter are actual pro players which is still a good thing in some regard
Playing vs better players improves your gameplay
I believe Dota needs to have seasonal rank every 2 months or 3 and do hard reset for all accounts so they can save the ranked in dota
I'm all for rank resets, just put a yearly badge like counter strike but containing your highest rank achieved something like 2024 - legend 3
Account buyers will need to buy boosting services again and again like in league
I recently reached immortal, id say ive played around 100-200 games of ranked over my whole career of 5.5k hours played, I used to be ancient but ive been playing 5 stack unrankeds with my divine and immortal friends, and then I went solo for some ranked games and climbed there without any problem. I have never felt less achievment for getting a high rank in a video game ever, maybe when I got diamond in heroes of the storm when it was already dead. I dont know ye in my eyes it feels like every bozo is immortal together with the pros and ive played vs pros or ppl that have like 10-20k hours played and even though I am immortal as well I might have as well been herald, the rank just doesnt work as a representation of the skill of the player. Sometimes i play with ppl rank sub 1000 and that is just complete smth else.
its just painful to see how bad your content is getting month by month. get back to character bro. stop overusing chatgpt
I feel like MMR is weirdly inflated. The fact that we keep getting higher "top mmrs" is strange. Like as things are right now we will have someone with 100k MMR granted enough time and no change to the system. We need a change for sure for it to make sense otherwise MMR does lose its meaning. Maybe adopting a seasonal recalibration like is mentioned in this video that other games use will be good. People will get mad but eh think we need to tighten things up a bit
Also. Remove immortal draft party queue Because that shit ruins game when 1 people does not get to team up with his friend.
478 Match with 289 Win and I only Archon 3, it's that good? Bcs I see many of my Team like Archon/Legend player alr 10k match with 1,5-3k match win
im a div 5 trying to get immortal, but everytime i met them in a match they always somehow feeds
I'm at the bottom so I got my own battles to fight.
Need to reset rank AND remove double down tokens from game to stop win trading.
Just add seasonal ranking, each season reset you get bonus mmr for win streak until X losses and problem solved
And the top ranks became so ridiculously overtuned. In no other games truly high rank starts at 11000 mmr above the average player. Just a big clown show dota is
Doesn't matchmaking behave differently between rest of the ranks and within immortal? The overpopulation is (probably) not an issue on matchmaking perspective, and any new rank in between would be to just for the game to give you a "step-by-step" improvement feedback. If you hit immortal legitimately, that game doesn't need to give you all this handholding shit, you already understand and are addicted the core assignment of this game, breaking your limits and raising your skill cap.
Valve doesn't care to take care of immortal players's progression systems because they think they don't need taking care of to keep playing the game. Toxicity, smurfing and shit are the real problems, and Valve deals it in their own stupid ways. They are kinda allergic to doing whatever rest of the industry does like how Miracle doesn't like playing the same hero consecutively.
Turn brain on, immortal englobes from 5.5k mmr to 15k mmr, is like if you bundle everything from 0 mmr, 5.5k mmr and double it, and the other reason is dota doesnt have a high influx of new player, it's reoccurring players and players who never stopped, meaning that their normally better than a new player, and the final reason is that you can reach immortal with good theory/knowledge and a very okish mechanics, so when something clicks you skyrocket in ranks, be it split pushing, resource managment, position in the map and fights, pressure, forcing the hand of your opponents, laning phase, jungle, itemization, playing around strong timings and heroes, kicking your opponent when he's down. Any one of those you learn in depth will take you higher pretty fast, dota is extremely competitive and well balanced (at least the most balanced moba with this complexity), those who really like the game and want to play to the fullest and be good will literally study this game, i dont know when was the last time i saw a league player really dive that deep into theory besides some superficial, and those who just play for fun get stuck in the middle, that sounds about right for me, league has a very high mechanical ceiling (some theory also but not the focus), so its harder for someone to break through unless their very fast, precisely and with good reactions
wasn't this idea originally from a reddit thread?
Recalibration is also really bad in dota, for eg. I once activated it and won like 75% games of games played and I recalibrated to archon 1 and before that I was archon 3, later I climbed to Archon 5 and activated Rrcalibration again and I won approx. 60% of games and again climbed down do crusader 5... Like what the actual fuck. Never doing in again
Oh you guys immortal ranks?
Me a veteran crusader rank 😂
forced rank reset needs to comeback, and you should lose your rank sooner if you are inactive
why does speeed from gameleap look like daniel larson
its all about the mmr system counting, it must be deleted, its obsolete
The ranks are good as they are, because you can't reach immortal unless you're really good at dota. Yes, immortals 6k mmr are not even close to the level of an immortal 10k mmr, it's true, BUT an immortal 6k mmr still knows Dota very well and plays it very well. He deserves his rank. Creating new ranks would do nothing for the matchmaking or the account buying problem, it would just change the name of your rank, from immortal to whatever the new rank between divine and immortal is named.
Or maybe give a new rank to the very best players, like from 9k mmr you're something else than immortal, just like in chess where there are "super GM" (even tho it's not an official rank).
Also account buying and boosting exists in any and every game, I've seen boosted players in Diam/Master/Challenger on League much more than I've seen boosted players in Dota Divine/Immortal ranks.
In Rainbow Six Siege it's the same rank stacking
Highest rank = 1
Don't care about others 🎉
Man I hate immortal draft with all my heart. There are 6k and 10k people in the same game, 5 games of 10 are mmr trading and you can't do shit about it. I am so sick I don't want to play dota anymore ffs
remove ranking 4Head
honestly this problem didnt exist back when i use to play at 2013-2014
we need icefrog rank
ironic immortal but mostly die already in real life