Awesome video! I am a support player at heart, but I have stick to guardian and survivor, until now. I am already planning my first Seeker support deck for my next campaign! I wish there was a tool for adding tags to individual cards in my collection. That would make building decks easier. It is easier to remember the good weapons or skills, but a “support” tag would be great to have.
I have always thought Seeker was boring unless you're playing support. I have defiantly been playing almost exclusively support Seeker for years. I completely agree with Daniel that it helps your team pull off the most fun, wacky decks. And you still get clues anyway. I love Seeker support.
Support is tough in many of the games I like. Gloomhaven / Frosthaven for example: Those games have characters that have more support abilities than others, but they also still have to deal damage because that is a fundamental aspect of the game that every character needs to be able to do (this is where most of the game happens). This is the background I come from before Arkham. In Arkham, I think “true” or “absolute” support is a trap, but having a handful of cards to help your friends out of a pinch is welcome (get a clue or defeat a couple enemies or SOMETHING). Carson, on the other hand of that, I think showed everybody that leaning even more into support isn’t a bad option. Just need more unique ways to support than “Me soak for you. Take action” and I think Seeker has quite a few of those currently in the forms in odd and old cards such as Pnakotic Manuscripts and Expose Weakness.
I love these themed weeks. Would love to see beyond the classes in future months. Mythos Week, Dunwich Week, Carcosa Week, etc. Its fun watch these hyper deep dives into the specific for this game.
I am a support player at heart. Be it healing, buffing, in a way tanking/soaking in Arkham. I think, especially in four player, that support decks have a home. The cardpool and gameplay loop do require you to create or find your own value, but it is there. Carson is a very brute force solution, but Guardians, Seekers and imo Survivors have a home here. Survivor is peppered with little nooks and crannies of value to a support, and I have a Calvin deck that just wrestles the mythos, supports and soaks for others and its a blast. Its very reactive, and most actions are spent prepping to have the right response for the mythos phase, but its enjoyable and very on theme for the character. There is always a lot of Johnny, Timmy, Spike, etc thrown around in the Arkham community, but the Vorthos players still exist!
55:20 There's no weird Seeker who does things differently from the other investigators in the class? Is this a meme thing, where you pretend the guy doesn't exist? He's got two guns! TWO! XD
I know difficulty reduction is scary as far as power level goes, but i wouldn't be opposed to seeing more in the seeker class. Main seekers don't need it but they make great off class cards
Played Support Daisy on 3-handed campaign and I am enthralled with Seeker support playstyle. This video should be right in my alley. Seeker week has been lots of fun!
Seekers are simply so strong, that you can play a weird quirky deck, just mess around, and still be a strong party character. If other classes do this, they often become rather useless. Playing a seeker just takes off all the pressure, you'll be useful either way no matter how much you mess up.
Gray's Anatomy, Encyclopedia, Map the Area, and Guidance (Farsight helps too if you need to move before unleashing the combo) can help a Shotgun Guardian turn into an absolute boss destroyer. If enemies are not a big deal in a scenario, most of those cards can also be used to help with other things too, so it doesn't slow down Act advancement that much either.
We'll definitely cover this in the History of the Rogue Class, but to preview it here: a combo-oriented class will scale better with a bigger card pool than a value-oriented class.
Healing can definitely let people play recklessly. We did a 4 player run of eote, i was carolyn and my friend had 5 mental trauma on dexter , or as he liked to call them "mental cash"
Seeker was the strongest class to begin with and Rogue was the weakest. Like how every expansion FFG had to add a way for Mystics to fight/cluev, they also had to add cards to increase rogues power. They're now the strongest and I couldn't be happier.
To encourage support without affecting the usability of the card in solo, Arkham LCG should follow Spirit Island way of doing it: Support cards in Spirit Island usually have a main effect that applies to the target being supported and a side effect that applies to the supporter. Let's say: target draws 2 cards, you draw 1 card. Then, when playing solo, the player can target themselves (the heavy support cards can't target the the user in multiplayer, they must target an ally) and receive the main effect of the card instead of the lesser one. There are some other ways in which this ruling is used for support cards, but usually, they work like this, and i think this could work very well for cards in Arkham LCG.
I disagree with your comment that gut ect. should let your teammate draw the card. The card draw encourages/rewards me for helping my teammate to pass a test. This is especially true for the defensive cards where I often use them at the first opportunity just to draw a card.
That's fair, but I think the argument that it makes the game more supportive to do that is perfectly encapsulated in your selfish reasoning here lol (not that there's anything wrong with it, just big me me me vibes.)
@@PlayingBoardGames I'm thinking more from a teaching standpoint. They get new players in the habit of helping each other as there is almost no cost with these skills. I would however prefer if the upgraded versions instead had you always draw 1 but if it was committed to another investigators test they also drew 1.
Amazing video (as always!) I really liked the idea to showcase the lesser-played side of the class. Definitely got me thinking of playing a support Harvey next time with our group.
An entire video about why Charles Ross, Esq. didn't deserve to be the least seeker like card? You even mentioned him! And yes he is very bad, but he still fits in the archetype.
Honestly I think Charles is pretty good, it's just that other seeker allies are so bonkers powerful they outshine him. If he was a guardian card I think he'd be very popular.
You two are quite the dynamic duo!
Yeah, what an awesome duo!
Awesome video! I am a support player at heart, but I have stick to guardian and survivor, until now. I am already planning my first Seeker support deck for my next campaign!
I wish there was a tool for adding tags to individual cards in my collection. That would make building decks easier. It is easier to remember the good weapons or skills, but a “support” tag would be great to have.
I have always thought Seeker was boring unless you're playing support. I have defiantly been playing almost exclusively support Seeker for years.
I completely agree with Daniel that it helps your team pull off the most fun, wacky decks.
And you still get clues anyway. I love Seeker support.
Support is tough in many of the games I like. Gloomhaven / Frosthaven for example: Those games have characters that have more support abilities than others, but they also still have to deal damage because that is a fundamental aspect of the game that every character needs to be able to do (this is where most of the game happens). This is the background I come from before Arkham.
In Arkham, I think “true” or “absolute” support is a trap, but having a handful of cards to help your friends out of a pinch is welcome (get a clue or defeat a couple enemies or SOMETHING). Carson, on the other hand of that, I think showed everybody that leaning even more into support isn’t a bad option. Just need more unique ways to support than “Me soak for you. Take action” and I think Seeker has quite a few of those currently in the forms in odd and old cards such as Pnakotic Manuscripts and Expose Weakness.
S tier video--no surprise. I strongly agree with your "What Can The Designers Do?" points, modifying campaigns to reward flexing more, most of all!!
I love these themed weeks. Would love to see beyond the classes in future months. Mythos Week, Dunwich Week, Carcosa Week, etc. Its fun watch these hyper deep dives into the specific for this game.
Campaign weeks sound awesome!
I am a support player at heart. Be it healing, buffing, in a way tanking/soaking in Arkham.
I think, especially in four player, that support decks have a home. The cardpool and gameplay loop do require you to create or find your own value, but it is there. Carson is a very brute force solution, but Guardians, Seekers and imo Survivors have a home here. Survivor is peppered with little nooks and crannies of value to a support, and I have a Calvin deck that just wrestles the mythos, supports and soaks for others and its a blast. Its very reactive, and most actions are spent prepping to have the right response for the mythos phase, but its enjoyable and very on theme for the character.
There is always a lot of Johnny, Timmy, Spike, etc thrown around in the Arkham community, but the Vorthos players still exist!
I’m playing a TCU campaign now and using Mandy as one of my investigators, and I have been focusing a little more on supporting the others.
55:20 There's no weird Seeker who does things differently from the other investigators in the class?
Is this a meme thing, where you pretend the guy doesn't exist?
He's got two guns! TWO! XD
@@cykeok3525 He still has 4 book, he's still getting clues like a machine if he wants to!
Guidance is especially good if you can give it to someone with Quick Learner (so, Stella :D) because that's another action with -2 difficulty
I know difficulty reduction is scary as far as power level goes, but i wouldn't be opposed to seeing more in the seeker class. Main seekers don't need it but they make great off class cards
44:05 Thats what she said
Played Support Daisy on 3-handed campaign and I am enthralled with Seeker support playstyle. This video should be right in my alley.
Seeker week has been lots of fun!
Seekers are simply so strong, that you can play a weird quirky deck, just mess around, and still be a strong party character.
If other classes do this, they often become rather useless. Playing a seeker just takes off all the pressure, you'll be useful either way no matter how much you mess up.
Gray's Anatomy, Encyclopedia, Map the Area, and Guidance (Farsight helps too if you need to move before unleashing the combo) can help a Shotgun Guardian turn into an absolute boss destroyer.
If enemies are not a big deal in a scenario, most of those cards can also be used to help with other things too, so it doesn't slow down Act advancement that much either.
Justin, would be nice a video of you explaining how the Rogue was the weakest class and now you call it stronger than Seeker, damn!
We'll definitely cover this in the History of the Rogue Class, but to preview it here: a combo-oriented class will scale better with a bigger card pool than a value-oriented class.
@PlayingBoardGames Amen for that. Justice, is what I call it
Healing can definitely let people play recklessly. We did a 4 player run of eote, i was carolyn and my friend had 5 mental trauma on dexter , or as he liked to call them "mental cash"
A deep dive into an Arkham topic with two chill dudes? Sign me up
Rogues are stronger now? I need to get newer cards.
Seeker was the strongest class to begin with and Rogue was the weakest. Like how every expansion FFG had to add a way for Mystics to fight/cluev, they also had to add cards to increase rogues power. They're now the strongest and I couldn't be happier.
To encourage support without affecting the usability of the card in solo, Arkham LCG should follow Spirit Island way of doing it:
Support cards in Spirit Island usually have a main effect that applies to the target being supported and a side effect that applies to the supporter. Let's say: target draws 2 cards, you draw 1 card.
Then, when playing solo, the player can target themselves (the heavy support cards can't target the the user in multiplayer, they must target an ally) and receive the main effect of the card instead of the lesser one.
There are some other ways in which this ruling is used for support cards, but usually, they work like this, and i think this could work very well for cards in Arkham LCG.
I think this is a great thought process for how to make support cards more viable to play. I dig it!
I disagree with your comment that gut ect. should let your teammate draw the card. The card draw encourages/rewards me for helping my teammate to pass a test. This is especially true for the defensive cards where I often use them at the first opportunity just to draw a card.
That's fair, but I think the argument that it makes the game more supportive to do that is perfectly encapsulated in your selfish reasoning here lol (not that there's anything wrong with it, just big me me me vibes.)
@@PlayingBoardGames I'm thinking more from a teaching standpoint. They get new players in the habit of helping each other as there is almost no cost with these skills.
I would however prefer if the upgraded versions instead had you always draw 1 but if it was committed to another investigators test they also drew 1.
Amazing video (as always!) I really liked the idea to showcase the lesser-played side of the class. Definitely got me thinking of playing a support Harvey next time with our group.
An entire video about why Charles Ross, Esq. didn't deserve to be the least seeker like card?
You even mentioned him! And yes he is very bad, but he still fits in the archetype.
Honestly I think Charles is pretty good, it's just that other seeker allies are so bonkers powerful they outshine him. If he was a guardian card I think he'd be very popular.
@@JackMack Yeah that's fair.