Instead of Traditionalist Leader it should say TRADITIONALIST BISHOP. In fact EVERY catholic should be a Traditionalist, because ideally we all try to follow and live by the Sacred Tradition of our Catholic Church.
@@davidstanton3174 a Zionist satanists have infiltrated every group world over. Wakeup lipservers to Jesus and Mary. About fellay less said the better. He is FRANKY's man. His henchmen promote Frankie everywhere as Franciscus..... Hohoho. Wake up again brainwashed zombies. You are no worse off than V2 Zombies. Hahaha.
"We cleave, with all our heart and with all our soul, to Catholic Rome, the guardian of the Catholic Faith and of the traditions necessary for the maintenance of that Faith and to eternal Rome, mistress of wisdom and truth. On the other hand we refuse and have always refused to follow the Rome of the neo-Protestant trend clearly manifested throughout the Second Vatican Council and later, in all the reforms born of it." Archbishop Lefebvre to the Seminary Professors & students 21/11/ 1974.
JuanMaria2012 I love this quote filled with hope and authentic joy in Christ, even during then what was theretofore an unfathomable tempest. Lefebvre will be canonized and I pray for the people who claim to be members of Our Church, but are severed from the Body of Christ by their free will and internal assent to heresy even unto apostasy, and this is demonstrably true for many people who scattered fruitless seeds and laid waste to our vineyard. Christ is still King, though. The heel of the Virgin should also assure us of victory in Christ and remember that despite dire prophecies that should be taken quite seriously, the purpose of prophecy is to effect a change in humanity by individuals using free will to follow Christ in His Church...No Catholic of sincere faith and properly educated conscience thinks Francis is a good pope or that the New Mass is a good thing, for they are wolves like Michael Voris who has dressed as a lamb to manipulate poor Alice von Hildebrand to contradict her husband and Voris will do anything to gain attention and a sense of strength by picking on others who have a hard enough time as it is.
These priests of the SSPX hold much in the credit of retaining the Church's tradition! Many have failed to see and understand this. The Holy Father was very fond of Bishop Lefebvre. He was the founder of the Holy Ghost Fathers and he opened opened up schools and missions throughout the third world countries spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. We should hope for such good and holy priests who re commited to Saving Souls!
God bless and grant Bishop Bernard Fellay many years! He is serving what is true and only wants the best for the Church, not to split it. I hope the bishops and cardinals in the Vatican will recognise them as soon as possible, we need what the SSPX does!
+Kralperri Fellay is totally a traitor to archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. His Lordship left specific instrucctions as to when back to Rome. It was a total mistake to leave this mole to take over the SSPX. The new SSPX is a totally new concoction that has nothing to do with Catholic Tradition. Judas Fellay has accepted the new protestant Mass, he fell in the mouse trap of Ratzinger. Shame on this sellout.
@@ixtoc999 wow! Great! Only the Holy Ghost inspired person can speak thus. Messrs. Couture & Co., should wake up. Otherwise, their state will be like Ratzinger's today. Not even a priest wants to shake his hand. Hahaha. Hehehe. Curse of God on such traitors to Christ and Mother Mary. God bless you bro/sis.
The Church before Vatican II had evolved and the Church in 1962 was not the same as the Church of 100 AD. So Vatican II helped establish the Church's existence in the modern world without losing her apostolicity and authority. So our Church is indeed dynamic.
@John M Phiri...can't agree with you more. Although I can say that the SSPX are composed of pious members, they are disobedient and are not humble. Why can't the parishioner participate in the mass, the mass the Lord gifted us and in the Eucharist HE specifically asked for us to participate in to remember Him...what is so wrong with that? No question that the Latin mass is beautiful, buut so is the current mass....I don't understand the stubborness of the SSPX, 3 Popes have already reached out to them, Pope Benedict removed their ex-communication already & Pope Francis too has been trying to dialogue with them, but they are all too proud.
A shame to see the trolls have already arrived to spout their rubbish and ignorance, we should pray for them! I hope the normalisation proceeds well and as for those shouting traitor, how exactly? The Archbishop made it clear that being Roman was an essential part of being catholic and if we can be normalised with Rome and keep the faith, how can we say no? That would be schismatic
I believe you've misunderstood Bishop Fellay. He is not a politician, rather, he is orthodox and measured and balanced. He works within the parameters of the Second Vatican Council while finding it extraordinarily difficult to reconcile with Tradition. Privately, he may wish it could be just thrown out, but he understands that it never will be because it's a valid Council, as the SSPX officially maintains, though pastoral in nature and ambiguously written.
I think it would be a good idea for Bishop Fellay to send out a newsletter concerning this matter and exactly what is going on with Rome, etc. It seems many are confused and concerned.
But the conciliar church teaches that there IS salvation outside the Church,not only by baptism of desire, but also BY MEANS of the "ecclesial communities." Wouldn't that apply to we, poor traditionalists also?
That is the unfortunate truth. The new mass is a protestantisation of the Mass of Ages, that was admitted by Abp. Bugnini, the architect of the Novus Ordo. This was done directly by the wishes of Paul VI which makes the whole thing worse. But, it is in no way related to the Council since the rite of Paul VI was only promulgated in 1970 whereas Vatican II had been concluded by 1965.
A spokesman for the Vatican just published an article about the SSPX , and said that the two documents SSPX complains about are not "doctrinal". Two paragraphs later, they say it is the teaching of the magisterium and must be taken seriously. In other words, it's doctrinal. What does it mean when they say in one paragraph that it is not doctrinal, and in the next paragraph, that it is doctrinal? It means that no matter what you say, you will be right!
I'd also like to stress that one reason Bishop Fellay may appear to be glossing over the contentious nature of the Vatican II is because he has faith in the supernatural nature of the Church, as he made clear in the recent letter he wrote to the other three Bishops. He fully believes that the gates of hell will not prevail, and that the Holy Ghost will work all of this out if the Society only stays faithful and fights for Tradition. We needn't worry about things which we have no power over.
His bishops were forced to come out publicly with their opposition because he refused to consider the thinking of the majority, he was madder than hell. Yet, he's smiling? Why is he smiling? Shouldn't he be upset? Isn't it natural to be upset. Yet, he's smiling. What an actor!
We owe Bishop Fellay our respect and prayers. But we must be alert and prepared at all times for the devil seeks to devour the good. In our times and with the prophecies of Our Lady we cannot expect Bishop Fellay to have some special ability to cleanse the Catholic Church. No. The Church belongs to God and it has got to the point in which God Himself will cleanse His Church. God have mercy on us on that day!
"Valid council" is ambiguous in itself. The SSPX also maintains that the Novus Ordo is, in its originally promulgated form, "valid" also, but that does not mean that they don't unhesitatingly desire it to be condemned and suppressed. Vatican II, not defining any dogmas and having no parts endowed with extraordinary infallibility was, simply, fallible. And it did err, in a few points. (Not simply mere bad wording.) The SSPX has always maintained this, and it is now being resolutely glossed over.
I think you need to learn to respect religious life. Bishop Fellay is an amazing soul and leader. I agree Bishop Williamson made a huge mistake. However, who is without sin? Don't point fingers unless your soul is without sin. Trying to make the right decision for the glory of God and the salvation of souls is very hard. Bishop Fellay needs our prayers. He has mine and I hope that you will pray for him, too.
William Thomas Walsh received a B.A. fromYale University in 1913, and a honorary Litt.D. from Fordham University. He wrote no less than 16 books from 1910 to 1948, treating on such subjects as "The Spanish Inquisition", Philip II of Spain, Saint Teresa of Avila, Isabella of Spain, and Our Lady of Fatima. You are reading slanted history. The fact that Dominic Guzman, or Saint Dominic, was monitoring the Inquisition, gave it the balance it needed to prescribe Mercy and not vengeance.
While I don't agree with your stand on the Vatican, I do have a question. Wouldn't the union of the Vatican and the SSPX bring greater holiness to the Vatican?
Vatican Council II is not a break with the past unless implicit salvation mentioned in the text, is assumed to be explicit and known in 2012. Archbishop Gerhard Muller's recent statement could suggest that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) has tracked the 'missing link' responsible for heretical interpretations of Vatican Council II.He seems to have detected the primary cause of Vatican Council II being considered a break with the past.
846 Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation... He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. continued
It is not your place to judge a Superior General and an orthodox Roman Catholic Bishop. You may disagree with him, but your choice is either follow him or schism.
There is no going back. This is clear.The post-conciliar church is now fixed in its ways, its new theology, its liturgy. If you truly believe that Francis validly governs the Roman Church, your should humbly follow not only what he and the bishops grudgingly permit (the various indults),, but what they enthusiastically embrace as the "new springtime."
Be that as it may, (and I'm not saying you're right or wrong about the Council erring, time will tell as the Holy Ghost enables the Church to sort all of this out), why would you suggest that the entire Council should be thrown out if, say, 95% of it is compatible with Catholic orthodoxy? In my opinion, the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, Dei Verbum, is actually helpful and necessary, and clarifies some things *against* modernism, such as the infallibility of Sacred Scripture.
Actually no, only the ordinary and universal magisterium is infallible, it is entirely questionable whether the council belongs to that, so you are begging the question. I notice you have not responded to any of my points, perhaps because you have no answer?
I pray for a union between the SSPX and Rome. The SSPX has a lot to offer the present day church and we'd be blessed to have them reunite with us. +AMGD+
The purpose of a Traditonal Catholic is to adhere to the Magisterium of the Faith. That faith which has endured for a full 2,000 years. To receive the Sacraments from validly ordained Catholic Priests who hear Confessions (Sacrament of Penance not Reconciliation), and who are working to save the souls of their penitents. To spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to be the example to a world gone mad with sin. Just to live in peace as examples of Piety, Holiness and to gain Heaven. et al.
But you want to be recognized by the enemies of Christ....what did YOUR FOUNDER tell you 4 Bishops....now you have backstabbed him and Christ and indeed the Roman Catholic Church itself. Vatican II and Nuvous Ordo are NOT GOOD and you should preach this to all!...Please come back and and tell your Priests you made a mistake in 2012 and will not make any agreement with Rome until they convert to the Catholic faith. This should be clear to you.
The Council no where contradicts Fr.Leonard Feeney's understanding of the dogma on exclusive salvation. If the cardinal who issued the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston assumed that invincible ignorance etc were exceptions to the dogma, he made a mistake. The Letter does not explicitly say that Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy.One has to imply it - and just about every one is doing just this!
Sounds to me like the "three bishops" are being much more faithful to their holy founder than Bishop Fellay's naive optimism. Look at the FSSP, Campos, Bon Pasteur, Le Barroux, etc. All have capitulated, and all have accepted Conciliarism and the Novus Ordo to one degree or another, in return for being able to rub shoulders with a cardinal now and again, while patting one another on the back for being "in communion."
I am a Traditionalist, but sedevacante. I attended the FSSPX at first, but left them last year, thank God! The fsspx turned from an opposition to Rome (although with theological problems from the beginning on) to defending the council. The II. Vatican "Council" is heretical, so why is he defending it? The "popes" of the Novus Ordo sect have given us the true interpretation of Vatican II., so why is Bishop Fellay defending the council, when it's clear what they are teaching? The fsspx isn't traditional anymore, only by some few outward signs, but their spirit is Novus Ordo like. Leave the fsspx! Watch some videos from Fr. Cekada or Bishop Sanborn on the whole problem, and their schismatical stance, and you will see the problem. So no, this man is not my leader.
I am afraid SSPX, sooner or later, would be crushed and digested by the conciliar church like a crispy corn fritter. That would be a great loss, because SSPX represents the largest force in the Traditionalist movement. I would grieve to see SSPX priests forced to celebrate the new mass, or adopt disfigured doctrinal models in their public role as teachers of the faithful. Let's hope they ride out this storm and remain the "loyal opposition"--outside the confines of the Vatican.
The Council is infallible because it was convoked at an Ecumenical level, thus invoking the ordinary authority of the Magisterium which is de facto infallible. It is true that it was not a dogmatic council, yet it was pastoral and through this it transmitted doctrine. We must accept it as valid because if it is not, then the Popes and subsequent bishops who signed the Conciliar documents have acted without the authority of the successors of the apostles and are still without their authority.
"We have never wished to belong to this system that calls itself the Conciliar Church and defines itself with the Novus Ordo "Mass" and with an oecumenism that leads to Indifferentism and the laicization of all society. We have no part, nullam partem habemus, with the pantheon of the religions of Assisi."
I respectfully disagree with you. Sometimes I wonder if people who think as you do enjoy the turmoil, consternation and ever present discord amongst 'traditionalist Catholics, and who fail to realise that constant attacks and slander really only does the devils work. You would be better to simply pray for the guidance of Almighty God for Bishop Fellay (who I am confident) also realizes he constantly needs that guidance.
Just no, you presuppose the council is infallible without showing why this has to be the case and ignoring the fact that those who attended and implemented it clearly stated that they were overturning the 'old faith' and that it was not infallible. And no Archbishop Lefebvre blamed the council for most of his life, for a few years after it he thought it was only interpretations but that is all. Please educate yourself on the facts rather than your opinion.
They can seek canonical status knowing that the Council indicates that all non Catholics are oriented to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II ) (2), that all the members of Christian communities are also oriented to Hell without Catholic Faith (Ad Gentes 7) and though non Catholics are physically free they have a moral obligation, to enter the Catholic Church... continued
I have a suggestion. How about you heed Blessed Cardinal Newman's advice: "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant." Go deep down in history and you will find out that the opinions held by SSPX "hard-liners" such as the three other bishops are based on errors. The integralist ideas of Charles Maurras, the lie that St. Athanasius was excommunicated by Pope St. Liberius, the wrong assumption that Cardinal Wright's 71 letter officially approved the SSPX, just to cite a few.
Civility by all means. And prayer for those lost in a haze of confusion.That being said, we can never succumb to the Subjectivistic notion that FEELING one is right makes one right. The truth is not about feeling. This is especially so concerning the Truths of the Faith. We are confronted by issues of both doctrinal purity and praxis. An uncritical, supine attitude towards ecclesiastical figures is precisely how so many were spirited on board the "ship of fools", called Vatican II!
We don't enjoy "turmoil or consternation". But we want the Truth. What did we Trads fight for all these years? Our posterity needs the Truth that saves,no counterfeit. We fought and sacrificed for integral Catholicism, sometimes at great cost to ourselves and our families. We were the object of scorn and vilification. Now we are to sell out to an unrepentant Vatican establishment, more disorderd and alienated from the Roman Tradition than it was 50 years ago? I don't think so!!!!
The difference btwn the SSPX bishops and the others is that SSPX members hold on to holiness and TRADITION, while MANY in the mo dern church hold on to NOVELTIES. THATS IT! In a nutshell and there's no pt; in arguing! It is what it is!
Quite the contrary, I believe they will be a voice that will be listened to. It would have been better if they had accepted Pope Bennedict 16ths offer, as it now will be harder under Pope Francis.
When you find evidence pre Vatican 2 that the church approved of religious liberty please tell me, until then accept the reality that all popes prior to the 1960's condemned as 'a moral wound against the catholic church' 'madnes'' etc... As for you attending the traditional latin rite, this proves exactly what the SSPX has always said, the true liturgy alone does not a catholic make
Why is this man smiling? His fellow bishops have come out publicly in opposition to what he is doing, and he should be upset, but he is smiling. What is he smiling about? Why would he smile, knowing that the SSPX is divided and in chaos? What is there to smile about? This smile is very disconverting. What kind of man is this?
Bishop Fellay is no longer a traditional bishop or maybe he never was. More difficult than hearing this hypocricy is the fact that most priests of the sspx are going along with him. Apparently no loyalty to to the three bishops combine. The spirit of the antichrist is at hand. I still remember the days when he would blast bishop Rifan for doing what he is doing now. Where is his dignity? Bad bad bad, he has turned on ARB Lef and on the laity that have given him to eat for the past decades.
Dang. What a stark difference 'tween this bishop and that Bp Wuerl dude. And Kmiec and Clark. Mahoney, Trautman, Hubbard, Brown, Weakland, Ochoa, Adamec. That ain't even touching Canada, Europe, etc. Wheweee! France,Germany and Austria alone would take this ol' boy all dang day to list. Well heck, guess there's a purdy darn stark difference between a SSPX bishop and every other bishop I ever heard of. It's like them others is from some whole nother religion. Well,... I guess they is, ain't they?
Do you really believe that? He is softening the novus SSPX for the final delivery to apostate Rome. The Accord was too obvious for the people to stomach. He should be ashamed and resign.
You, need to lay off. A Real Catholic knows to respect a priest or any religious. If you disagree then say it but learn to say it respectfully. They are humans like us and mistakes can happen. Second, Real Catholic learns to forgive and pray for people who need it. Not, to curse them! Those who curse others only themselves in front of God. Thirdly, Bishop Fellay is doing something what he think he is doing right. He wants every soul to be given a chance to hear the Latin Mass. Go, Fellay!
What incredible presumption and conceit. One could easily wager that almost half, half or even more than half the membership is against these actions he is taking. Yet, he did not consult anyone & forges ahead like a blockhead. . He did not even heed the advice of his equals, his bishops, the majority of whom are opposed to what he is doing and who were forced to come out publicly. . It is sheer diabolical delusion to believe that things are better in Rome, when they are so visibly worse.
The truth is that nothing has change in the conciliar church. Just look are the pope and his lack of faith, hope and charity. He really doesn't love those people who belong to false religions because his intention is not to convert them to the true religion but rather to make peace with them. Our Lord has told us to be peacemakers but not pacifist. Truth and error can never make peace because God is all truth and satan all error. Our pope is a confuse catholic just like you are.
Or do you mean the Spanish Inquisition, which you need to read about, because you're getting the wrong information. Read Tan Books and Publisher, The Inquisition by William Thomas Walsh, who is a Catholic historian, and you'll understand why the necessity of the Spanish Inquisition. Your misunderstanding of Church History is what is causing you to name Traditonalists Nazi's and Muslims. We are neither. We just worship Jesus Christ as the Church has done for the last 2000 years.
but we can apply some correnctions or notes to the text of the vatican II and give the traditional interpretation, and then we can do our own thing with the r mass and traditional church and let the novus ordo do their thing at the end we will win more and more ppl bc we have the true faith we just need not to be persecuted but we cannot be schismatics otherwise we would be damned bc there is no salus outside the church
Your insults only show the ignorance of your Faith. The worship of Christians in other countries, which were predominantly Christian at one time, has nothing to do whatsoever with what we are discussing. We are discussing that the Papal States were taken over by the Masons, and that you have Masonic principles with which you adhere. One religion is not as good as another, and where the Catholic Church was the main religion of the State, should have been kept as such, nothing more or less.
Why would a faithful catholic desire to pray a new rosary other than our Lady's psalter? The true mass of all the doctors and saints of holy mother church or a new mass that mocks the Most Holy Trinity. The most blessed sacrament our the charismatic destruction? My advice for you will be to study our holy catholic religion as it was taught from the beginning and not from the 60s, otherwise you will most likely end up becoming a mormon, or a baptise, or whatever. Saint John Vianney ora pro nobis.
Instead of Traditionalist Leader it should say TRADITIONALIST BISHOP. In fact EVERY catholic should be a Traditionalist, because ideally we all try to follow and live by the Sacred Tradition of our Catholic Church.
True, my friend .u tube Leo's encyclical on freemasonry,plus pacendi by Pius X, I'll learn early the people and the problems and who was k
@@davidstanton3174 a
Zionist satanists have infiltrated every group world over. Wakeup lipservers to Jesus and Mary. About fellay less said the better. He is FRANKY's man. His henchmen promote Frankie everywhere as Franciscus..... Hohoho. Wake up again brainwashed zombies. You are no worse off than V2 Zombies. Hahaha.
God Bless bishop Fellay, thank you
Prayers for both the Holy Father and His Excellency Bishop Fellay. May God's will be done.
It was pleasure to hear you speak Your Grace . The church needs to return to it's traditionalist roots .
"We cleave, with all our heart and with all our soul, to Catholic Rome, the guardian of the Catholic Faith and of the traditions necessary for the maintenance of that Faith and to eternal Rome, mistress of wisdom and truth.
On the other hand we refuse and have always refused to follow the Rome of the neo-Protestant trend clearly manifested throughout the Second Vatican Council and later, in all the reforms born of it."
Archbishop Lefebvre to the Seminary Professors & students 21/11/ 1974.
JuanMaria2012 I love this quote filled with hope and authentic joy in Christ, even during then what was theretofore an unfathomable tempest. Lefebvre will be canonized and I pray for the people who claim to be members of Our Church, but are severed from the Body of Christ by their free will and internal assent to heresy even unto apostasy, and this is demonstrably true for many people who scattered fruitless seeds and laid waste to our vineyard. Christ is still King, though. The heel of the Virgin should also assure us of victory in Christ and remember that despite dire prophecies that should be taken quite seriously, the purpose of prophecy is to effect a change in humanity by individuals using free will to follow Christ in His Church...No Catholic of sincere faith and properly educated conscience thinks Francis is a good pope or that the New Mass is a good thing, for they are wolves like Michael Voris who has dressed as a lamb to manipulate poor Alice von Hildebrand to contradict her husband and Voris will do anything to gain attention and a sense of strength by picking on others who have a hard enough time as it is.
Modernist Rome must convert first! Till then no deal!
These priests of the SSPX hold much in the credit of retaining the Church's tradition! Many have failed to see and understand this. The Holy Father was very fond of Bishop Lefebvre. He was the founder of the Holy Ghost Fathers and he opened opened up schools and missions throughout the third world countries spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. We should hope for such good and holy priests who re commited to Saving Souls!
The Eastern Orthodox Patriarch comes to the installation mass of Pope Francis, now there is more talks with the SSPX...
I pray for Christian unity!
God bless and grant Bishop Bernard Fellay many years! He is serving what is true and only wants the best for the Church, not to split it. I hope the bishops and cardinals in the Vatican will recognise them as soon as possible, we need what the SSPX does!
+Kralperri Fellay is totally a traitor to archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. His Lordship left specific instrucctions as to when back to Rome. It was a total mistake to leave this mole to take over the SSPX. The new SSPX is a totally new concoction that has nothing to do with Catholic Tradition. Judas Fellay has accepted the new protestant Mass, he fell in the mouse trap of Ratzinger. Shame on this sellout.
Recognition from present day Satanists at Vatican you are as brainwashed as the V2 Zombies. Pity you'll.
@@ixtoc999 wow! Great! Only the Holy Ghost inspired person can speak thus. Messrs. Couture & Co., should wake up. Otherwise, their state will be like Ratzinger's today. Not even a priest wants to shake his hand. Hahaha. Hehehe. Curse of God on such traitors to Christ and Mother Mary. God bless you bro/sis.
Did you notice the masonic handshake with Ratzinger? Bishop Fellon is a mole, a destroyer. A Judas.
If the SSPX was necessary some 20-odd years ago, then what has changed in the Church to make the SSPX unnecessary today?
The Title should absolutely be “Discussion with a renowned Catholic Bishop”
Thank you, your excellency!
The Church before Vatican II had evolved and the Church in 1962 was not the same as the Church of 100 AD. So Vatican II helped establish the Church's existence in the modern world without losing her apostolicity and authority. So our Church is indeed dynamic.
@John M Phiri...can't agree with you more. Although I can say that the SSPX are composed of pious members, they are disobedient and are not humble. Why can't the parishioner participate in the mass, the mass the Lord gifted us and in the Eucharist HE specifically asked for us to participate in to remember Him...what is so wrong with that? No question that the Latin mass is beautiful, buut so is the current mass....I don't understand the stubborness of the SSPX, 3 Popes have already reached out to them, Pope Benedict removed their ex-communication already & Pope Francis too has been trying to dialogue with them, but they are all too proud.
Thank you, Bishop Fellay. Bring the Vatican back home to The Church.
Vive le Christ Roi! Thank you, Abp Lefebvre! Sancto subito!!!
A shame to see the trolls have already arrived to spout their rubbish and ignorance, we should pray for them! I hope the normalisation proceeds well and as for those shouting traitor, how exactly? The Archbishop made it clear that being Roman was an essential part of being catholic and if we can be normalised with Rome and keep the faith, how can we say no? That would be schismatic
Bishop Fellay is doing was is right.
I'm happy Bishop Fellay did not take Rome offer.
Saint Pius X Pray For US
I thought a part 2 of this was going to be released? Does anyone know about that? Thanks
I believe you've misunderstood Bishop Fellay. He is not a politician, rather, he is orthodox and measured and balanced. He works within the parameters of the Second Vatican Council while finding it extraordinarily difficult to reconcile with Tradition. Privately, he may wish it could be just thrown out, but he understands that it never will be because it's a valid Council, as the SSPX officially maintains, though pastoral in nature and ambiguously written.
I heard there was going to be a second part to this interview released?
To everyone on the comments, just say your opinion and leave. The problem of the bishops are to the bishops, just as Caesar is to Caesar's.
I pray that the SSPX and the Holy See enter into full communion again.
I think it would be a good idea for Bishop Fellay to send out a newsletter concerning this matter and exactly what is going on with Rome, etc. It seems many are confused and concerned.
But the conciliar church teaches that there IS salvation outside the Church,not only by baptism of desire, but also BY MEANS of the "ecclesial communities." Wouldn't that apply to we, poor traditionalists also?
Where there is the Bishop (of Rome), there is the church.
Hermann Kepfer The consecration ritual post-Vatican II is problematic. I really sympathize with Bishops Fellay & Williamson.
thank you Lord for giving us bishop fellay to defend the tradition ., our catholic church🙏🙏🙏
That is the unfortunate truth. The new mass is a protestantisation of the Mass of Ages, that was admitted by Abp. Bugnini, the architect of the Novus Ordo. This was done directly by the wishes of Paul VI which makes the whole thing worse. But, it is in no way related to the Council since the rite of Paul VI was only promulgated in 1970 whereas Vatican II had been concluded by 1965.
A spokesman for the Vatican just published an article about the SSPX , and said that the two documents SSPX complains about are not "doctrinal". Two paragraphs later, they say it is the teaching of the magisterium and must be taken seriously. In other words, it's doctrinal. What does it mean when they say in one paragraph that it is not doctrinal, and in the next paragraph, that it is doctrinal? It means that no matter what you say, you will be right!
I'd also like to stress that one reason Bishop Fellay may appear to be glossing over the contentious nature of the Vatican II is because he has faith in the supernatural nature of the Church, as he made clear in the recent letter he wrote to the other three Bishops. He fully believes that the gates of hell will not prevail, and that the Holy Ghost will work all of this out if the Society only stays faithful and fights for Tradition. We needn't worry about things which we have no power over.
His bishops were forced to come out publicly with their opposition because he refused to consider the thinking of the majority, he was madder than hell. Yet, he's smiling? Why is he smiling? Shouldn't he be upset? Isn't it natural to be upset. Yet, he's smiling. What an actor!
We owe Bishop Fellay our respect and prayers. But we must be alert and prepared at all times for the devil seeks to devour the good. In our times and with the prophecies of Our Lady we cannot expect Bishop Fellay to have some special ability to cleanse the Catholic Church. No. The Church belongs to God and it has got to the point in which God Himself will cleanse His Church. God have mercy on us on that day!
It's now December 2012. Did anyting get announced in May?
SSPX is not against Rome its the only catholic group fighting for the Pope
"Valid council" is ambiguous in itself. The SSPX also maintains that the Novus Ordo is, in its originally promulgated form, "valid" also, but that does not mean that they don't unhesitatingly desire it to be condemned and suppressed. Vatican II, not defining any dogmas and having no parts endowed with extraordinary infallibility was, simply, fallible. And it did err, in a few points. (Not simply mere bad wording.) The SSPX has always maintained this, and it is now being resolutely glossed over.
I think you need to learn to respect religious life. Bishop Fellay is an amazing soul and leader. I agree Bishop Williamson made a huge mistake. However, who is without sin? Don't point fingers unless your soul is without sin. Trying to make the right decision for the glory of God and the salvation of souls is very hard. Bishop Fellay needs our prayers. He has mine and I hope that you will pray for him, too.
William Thomas Walsh received a B.A. fromYale University in 1913, and a honorary Litt.D. from Fordham University. He wrote no less than 16 books from 1910 to 1948, treating on such subjects as "The Spanish Inquisition", Philip II of Spain, Saint Teresa of Avila, Isabella of Spain, and Our Lady of Fatima. You are reading slanted history. The fact that Dominic Guzman, or Saint Dominic, was monitoring the Inquisition, gave it the balance it needed to prescribe Mercy and not vengeance.
Amigo, que opinas de la SSPX? Estas a favor de la comunion total con el Vaticano? Gracias.
While I don't agree with your stand on the Vatican, I do have a question. Wouldn't the union of the Vatican and the SSPX bring greater holiness to the Vatican?
Vatican Council II is not a break with the past unless implicit salvation mentioned in the text, is assumed to be explicit and known in 2012.
Archbishop Gerhard Muller's recent statement could suggest that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) has tracked the 'missing link' responsible for heretical interpretations of Vatican Council II.He seems to have detected the primary cause of Vatican Council II being considered a break with the past.
846
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation... He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.
continued
MSR. Lefebvre said: DO NOT MAKE A PRACTICAL AGREEMENT BEFORE A DOCTRINAL .
Where is the doctrinal agreement?? The talks failed.
the best question for a bishop would be> is it true that you can only move sideways?
What is the outcome between the SSPX and the Vatican?
Well said!
It is not your place to judge a Superior General and an orthodox Roman Catholic Bishop. You may disagree with him, but your choice is either follow him or schism.
There is no going back. This is clear.The post-conciliar church is now fixed in its ways, its new theology, its liturgy. If you truly believe that Francis validly governs the Roman Church, your should humbly follow not only what he and the bishops grudgingly permit (the various indults),, but what they enthusiastically embrace as the "new springtime."
Be that as it may, (and I'm not saying you're right or wrong about the Council erring, time will tell as the Holy Ghost enables the Church to sort all of this out), why would you suggest that the entire Council should be thrown out if, say, 95% of it is compatible with Catholic orthodoxy? In my opinion, the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, Dei Verbum, is actually helpful and necessary, and clarifies some things *against* modernism, such as the infallibility of Sacred Scripture.
Actually no, only the ordinary and universal magisterium is infallible, it is entirely questionable whether the council belongs to that, so you are begging the question. I notice you have not responded to any of my points, perhaps because you have no answer?
I pray for a union between the SSPX and Rome. The SSPX has a lot to offer the present day church and we'd be blessed to have them reunite with us. +AMGD+
"The devil can imitate humility but not OBEDIENCE." - St. Faustina
"He who is not with the Pope is not with God." - Sr Lucia
🤡🤣😂
The purpose of a Traditonal Catholic is to adhere to the Magisterium of the Faith. That faith which has endured for a full 2,000 years. To receive the Sacraments from validly ordained Catholic Priests who hear Confessions (Sacrament of Penance not Reconciliation), and who are working to save the souls of their penitents. To spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to be the example to a world gone mad with sin. Just to live in peace as examples of Piety, Holiness and to gain Heaven. et al.
But you want to be recognized by the enemies of Christ....what did YOUR FOUNDER tell you 4 Bishops....now you have backstabbed him and Christ and indeed the Roman Catholic Church itself. Vatican II and Nuvous Ordo are NOT GOOD and you should preach this to all!...Please come back and and tell your Priests you made a mistake in 2012 and will not make any agreement with Rome until they convert to the Catholic faith. This should be clear to you.
The Council no where contradicts Fr.Leonard Feeney's understanding of the dogma on exclusive salvation.
If the cardinal who issued the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston assumed that invincible ignorance etc were exceptions to the dogma, he made a mistake.
The Letter does not explicitly say that Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy.One has to imply it - and just about every one is doing just this!
Sounds to me like the "three bishops" are being much more faithful to their holy founder than Bishop Fellay's naive optimism. Look at the FSSP, Campos, Bon Pasteur, Le Barroux, etc. All have capitulated, and all have accepted Conciliarism and the Novus Ordo to one degree or another, in return for being able to rub shoulders with a cardinal now and again, while patting one another on the back for being "in communion."
Apparently the bishop hasnt heard of Saints Justus and Pastor--feast day August 6.
I am a Traditionalist, but sedevacante. I attended the FSSPX at first, but left them last year, thank God! The fsspx turned from an opposition to Rome (although with theological problems from the beginning on) to defending the council. The II. Vatican "Council" is heretical, so why is he defending it? The "popes" of the Novus Ordo sect have given us the true interpretation of Vatican II., so why is Bishop Fellay defending the council, when it's clear what they are teaching? The fsspx isn't traditional anymore, only by some few outward signs, but their spirit is Novus Ordo like. Leave the fsspx! Watch some videos from Fr. Cekada or Bishop Sanborn on the whole problem, and their schismatical stance, and you will see the problem. So no, this man is not my leader.
I am afraid SSPX, sooner or later, would be crushed and digested by the conciliar church like a crispy corn fritter. That would be a great loss, because SSPX represents the largest force in the Traditionalist movement. I would grieve to see SSPX priests forced to celebrate the new mass, or adopt disfigured doctrinal models in their public role as teachers of the faithful. Let's hope they ride out this storm and remain the "loyal opposition"--outside the confines of the Vatican.
He said it must be taken seriously but is not doctrinal, that’s a difference.
serious is not doctrinal
The Council is infallible because it was convoked at an Ecumenical level, thus invoking the ordinary authority of the Magisterium which is de facto infallible. It is true that it was not a dogmatic council, yet it was pastoral and through this it transmitted doctrine. We must accept it as valid because if it is not, then the Popes and subsequent bishops who signed the Conciliar documents have acted without the authority of the successors of the apostles and are still without their authority.
"We have never wished to belong to this system that calls itself the Conciliar Church and defines itself with the Novus Ordo "Mass" and with an oecumenism that leads to Indifferentism and the laicization of all society. We have no part, nullam partem habemus, with the pantheon of the religions of Assisi."
I respectfully disagree with you. Sometimes I wonder if people who think as you do enjoy the turmoil, consternation and ever present discord amongst 'traditionalist Catholics, and who fail to realise that constant attacks and slander really only does the devils work. You would be better to simply pray for the guidance of Almighty God for Bishop Fellay (who I am confident) also realizes he constantly needs that guidance.
Just no, you presuppose the council is infallible without showing why this has to be the case and ignoring the fact that those who attended and implemented it clearly stated that they were overturning the 'old faith' and that it was not infallible. And no Archbishop Lefebvre blamed the council for most of his life, for a few years after it he thought it was only interpretations but that is all. Please educate yourself on the facts rather than your opinion.
They can seek canonical status knowing that the Council indicates that all non Catholics are oriented to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II ) (2), that all the members of Christian communities are also oriented to Hell without Catholic Faith (Ad Gentes 7) and though non Catholics are physically free they have a moral obligation, to enter the Catholic Church...
continued
I have a suggestion. How about you heed Blessed Cardinal Newman's advice: "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."
Go deep down in history and you will find out that the opinions held by SSPX "hard-liners" such as the three other bishops are based on errors. The integralist ideas of Charles Maurras, the lie that St. Athanasius was excommunicated by Pope St. Liberius, the wrong assumption that Cardinal Wright's 71 letter officially approved the SSPX, just to cite a few.
"Bow down...during times of persecution"? "No one is obliged to provoke the persecutor?"
Tell that to John the Baptist or Bishop John Fisher.
Civility by all means. And prayer for those lost in a haze of confusion.That being said, we can never succumb to the Subjectivistic notion that FEELING one is right makes one right. The truth is not about feeling. This is especially so concerning the Truths of the Faith. We are confronted by issues of both doctrinal purity and praxis. An uncritical, supine attitude towards ecclesiastical figures is precisely how so many were spirited on board the "ship of fools", called Vatican II!
The ordinary magisterium was used by merit of convoking a council at an ecumenical level, therefore involving the entirety of the apostolic Church.
amen!
We don't enjoy "turmoil or consternation". But we want the Truth. What did we Trads fight for all these years? Our posterity needs the Truth that saves,no counterfeit. We fought and sacrificed for integral Catholicism, sometimes at great cost to ourselves and our families. We were the object of scorn and vilification. Now we are to sell out to an unrepentant Vatican establishment, more disorderd and alienated from the Roman Tradition than it was 50 years ago? I don't think so!!!!
No shit. Why do you think the Society's stayed away from Rome for 40 years.
The difference btwn the SSPX bishops and the others is that SSPX members hold on to holiness and TRADITION, while MANY in the mo dern church hold on to NOVELTIES. THATS IT! In a nutshell and there's no pt; in arguing! It is what it is!
Quite the contrary, I believe they will be a voice that will be listened to. It would have been better if they had accepted Pope Bennedict 16ths offer, as it now will be harder under Pope Francis.
Orientalium Ecclesiarum was also very helpful clarification and Catholic teaching.
Merci mgr!
Good response!
When you find evidence pre Vatican 2 that the church approved of religious liberty please tell me, until then accept the reality that all popes prior to the 1960's condemned as 'a moral wound against the catholic church' 'madnes'' etc... As for you attending the traditional latin rite, this proves exactly what the SSPX has always said, the true liturgy alone does not a catholic make
0:26 the priest does not say words to transform the eucharist host. Jesus said the 3 words of transformation," I AM the way & truth& life
Why is this man smiling? His fellow bishops have come out publicly in opposition to what he is doing, and he should be upset, but he is smiling. What is he smiling about? Why would he smile, knowing that the SSPX is divided and in chaos? What is there to smile about? This smile is very disconverting. What kind of man is this?
pastoral means "not infallible", it can contain error and even the pope said that
The Vatican never left the Church and your statement is really a contradition on itself.
WHO GIVES A YOUNG BOYS MENTAL HEALTH!
oh, yeah, bishop Fellay, you are going to get your cardinal hat, archbishop hat or just 30 silver coins!
Some people like a lot of icing on their cake, it kinda makes me sick.
No sell-out, no capitulation, no surrender!!!!
Bishop Fellay is no longer a traditional bishop or maybe he never was. More difficult than hearing this hypocricy is the fact that most priests of the sspx are going along with him. Apparently no loyalty to to the three bishops combine. The spirit of the antichrist is at hand. I still remember the days when he would blast bishop Rifan for doing what he is doing now. Where is his dignity? Bad bad bad, he has turned on ARB Lef and on the laity that have given him to eat for the past decades.
Do you even know what fascist means? Have you eve read what the church taught before 1960? I think the answer to both questions is no.
Dang. What a stark difference 'tween this bishop and that Bp Wuerl dude. And Kmiec and Clark. Mahoney, Trautman, Hubbard, Brown, Weakland, Ochoa, Adamec. That ain't even touching Canada, Europe, etc. Wheweee! France,Germany and Austria alone would take this ol' boy all dang day to list. Well heck, guess there's a purdy darn stark difference between a SSPX bishop and every other bishop I ever heard of. It's like them others is from some whole nother religion. Well,... I guess they is, ain't they?
AMEN!~
Do you really believe that? He is softening the novus SSPX for the final delivery to apostate Rome. The Accord was too obvious for the people to stomach. He should be ashamed and resign.
Give us Barabbas!
You, need to lay off. A Real Catholic knows to respect a priest or any religious. If you disagree then say it but learn to say it respectfully. They are humans like us and mistakes can happen. Second, Real Catholic learns to forgive and pray for people who need it. Not, to curse them! Those who curse others only themselves in front of God. Thirdly, Bishop Fellay is doing something what he think he is doing right. He wants every soul to be given a chance to hear the Latin Mass. Go, Fellay!
Or St. Stephen. Or St. Paul. People are getting duped by Pachelbel and Smiles.
All these men wearing robes do not work.
Best gig to not get your hands dirty.
Of course the SSPX is against the apostate Rome.
What incredible presumption and conceit. One could easily wager that almost half, half or even more than half the membership is against these actions he is taking. Yet, he did not consult anyone & forges ahead like a blockhead. . He did not even heed the advice of his equals, his bishops, the majority of whom are opposed to what he is doing and who were forced to come out publicly. . It is sheer diabolical delusion to believe that things are better in Rome, when they are so visibly worse.
The truth is that nothing has change in the conciliar church. Just look are the pope and his lack of faith, hope and charity. He really doesn't love those people who belong to false religions because his intention is not to convert them to the true religion but rather to make peace with them. Our Lord has told us to be peacemakers but not pacifist. Truth and error can never make peace because God is all truth and satan all error. Our pope is a confuse catholic just like you are.
Or do you mean the Spanish Inquisition, which you need to read about, because you're getting the wrong information. Read Tan Books and Publisher, The Inquisition by William Thomas Walsh, who is a Catholic historian, and you'll understand why the necessity of the Spanish Inquisition. Your misunderstanding of Church History is what is causing you to name Traditonalists Nazi's and Muslims. We are neither. We just worship Jesus Christ as the Church has done for the last 2000 years.
but we can apply some correnctions or notes to the text of the vatican II and give the traditional interpretation, and then we can do our own thing with the r mass and traditional church and let the novus ordo do their thing at the end we will win more and more ppl bc we have the true faith we just need not to be persecuted but we cannot be schismatics otherwise we would be damned bc there is no salus outside the church
Your insults only show the ignorance of your Faith. The worship of Christians in other countries, which were predominantly Christian at one time, has nothing to do whatsoever with what we are discussing. We are discussing that the Papal States were taken over by the Masons, and that you have Masonic principles with which you adhere. One religion is not as good as another, and where the Catholic Church was the main religion of the State, should have been kept as such, nothing more or less.
Why would a faithful catholic desire to pray a new rosary other than our Lady's psalter? The true mass of all the doctors and saints of holy mother church or a new mass that mocks the Most Holy Trinity. The most blessed sacrament our the charismatic destruction? My advice for you will be to study our holy catholic religion as it was taught from the beginning and not from the 60s, otherwise you will most likely end up becoming a mormon, or a baptise, or whatever. Saint John Vianney ora pro nobis.
I reject vatican 2