The Evolve III is ever so slightly faster. To me, the field portable laptop with screen, keyboard, mouse, 12v wins -- in the field... and the Pi wins as a dedicated compute module for a specific task. Could agree with you more!
I will using my RPi4/4 and the Surface Go 2 I just bought as two workable options. Got it for a bargain and just reset it and I love it. The JankaPOTAmus is not worth buying and posting to Australia.. I think the Surface Go 2 will last longer and if you can find the better LTE model, it has on board GPS and then just buy a ruggedised case. Happy times! ;)
My Surface Go 2 (LTE model) is working well for digi modes in the field, however I’ve yet to discover how to enable the gps. It appears an LTE SIM card may be required. Any insight you could share? Thx, W6DSG
@@don3394 I'm not sure TBH, mine is not the LTE version because they are hard to find but I will get one. The LTE version also has the GPS but I really don't think you would need to have a sim installed to enable it. Maybe just try your phone sim as a test. I have a few USB GPS units ordered for now as they are cheap but not internal. I can find a first gen Go with LTE & GPS but waiting for a used Go2 with it. No videos I've seen on them say a sim is required for GPS as it shouldn't be. Can you see it in the "Device Manager" it should be there?
Thank you for the reply. I found my Surface Go 2 online, as a new, open box item at a reasonable price. I confirmed it is the LTE model, and can see the cellular modem in the device manager. However, I have been unable as of yet to activate the gps function. I was considering trying an active SIM card, which is my next experiment. When I am in cell range I have used my phone as a wifi hotspot, but places I like to POTA have no signal. One drawback of the Surface is that it has only one USB port, so attaching a digital mode sound interface, gps dongle, and power source all at the same time could present difficulty. Thx again for your suggestions.
Good points Jason! But I think, the Raspberry is much easier to backup. Its easy to carry 2 Raspberries with a bunch of redundant SD cards. Display ia good point too, but thanks to VNC I can use nearly any device I may carry anyway. Phone, tablet, laptop, chromebook as long as a VNC client is available. On my portable activities I normally use the Raspberry as my main ham radio computer and use my Dell Toughbook als the display :-) But, the Toughbook is configured to do the job in case the Raspberry fails. :-) 73, Stephan, DF6PA P.S. Vara on the Raspberry works well, thanks to your videos!
The ease of swapping SD cards is one of the things I don't care for with the laptop. I'll probably keep a Pi in my bag as a backup that I could VNC into with my phone in a pinch.
When I was camping I ran into this scenario. I brought the evolve and a pi as a backup. The evolve introduced so much rfi into my 705, I had to pull out the pi (which has never given rfi problems). It actually worked really well, as I had the pi plugged into the 705, and could use my phone to vnc in and run js8 while sitting around the campfire.
Jason, I think you may have skipped over a very important use case: the $60 laptop can be used as the interface to the pi. Other than for light access, you aren’t going to use a phone. A tablet/iPad can be used, but really to fully use the Pi you need a monitor, keyboard and mouse. Here’s a $60 monitor keyboard and mouse all in one. Oh yeah, you could even use the laptop instead of the pi if the use case warrants it. I don’t think this is an either or situation. I think the laptop is probably another tool to add to the overall kit.
Great points! I was using my evolve just as you described for a while. Now that I have a bit more time, I am trying to get all of my radio apps loaded onto the laptop.
I have been pleased with the Evolve's performance in the field. For use with a Yaesu rig that needs the two cables use digi rig has the two cables on the radio side and one usb at the computer side. For those who intend to keep windows HRCC has a video covering set up and how to debloat windows. It will run better after debloating windows.
Depending on the Yaesu rig, you might also be able to run CAT over bluetooth. There's a bluetooth adapter available for the 8x7 series of radios that works well. I use it for both my 817 and 857. Won't work with the 891 though.
ปีที่แล้ว +1
One more advantage for the Pi: it has built-in Ethernet. There are some use cases where that is important. If you need Ethernet on the Evolve you'll have to add a USB Ethernet adapter, which will use up one of the two USB ports. Preferably the USB 3.0 port on the left; you won't get full speed from a gigabit Ethernet adapter if you plug it into the other port.
Many users seem unaware that the Evolve Maestro supports both stereo audio out and microphone in. This works perfectly for FT8 and WSPR on a truSDX rig, for instance. The Maestro's audio connector is a tip-ring-ring-sleeve type where the tip is L audio out, the 1st ring is R audio out, the 2nd ring is ground and the sleeve is microphone in. A few hacked dollar-store cables does the trick. Some audio level fiddling may be needed. IMHO this eliminates the need for a separate USB sound card. Great comparison video. Thanks ! 73's, N2GX
A couple months ago I bought a Chromebook. Come to find out you can enable "developer mode" and install a stripped down linux with a few button clicks with the last couple of versions. I've got TQSL, CQRLog, JTDX, FLDIGI, FLRIG, FLMSG and a host of other programs installed on there now (including a proper desktop version of firefox). Super lightweight, relatively inexpensive, touchscreen, runs on USB-C, 8-10 hour battery life (according to the manufacturer). A couple extra steps needed to access drives on the Chromebook or USB drives plugged into it. Haven't tried setting up GPS yet. 2 USB A ports and two USB-C ports, one one each side. When I traveled, a USB extender with HDMI output worked well and powered additional USB devices. This will need to be tested, of course, with linux and the radios. Of course, the real test will be when I get my radios connected. Might be worth looking into in addition to this Evolve laptop.
GPS doesn't work in the linux environment "Crostini". It's been recommended to go into full developer mode and install "Crouton" for direct access to the hardware. Downside is, you loose the built-in "Trusted Boot" security of the Chromebook.
I am looking forward to BAP being ported to i386 (and hopefully AMD64) machines. I use a Raspberry Pi (actually I have two. Two is one and one is none). I do have a Lenovo Thinkpad, and I run Ubuntu in the latest version. That has some power behind it. It is lightweight and rugged. The battery charge lasts for 4+ hours. I do have a 12 volt charger for it, so I can keep it charged up from my photovoltaic system. I don't know how much power it draws. I would like to have BAP run on this machine.
Jason, mine is either version 3 or 4, and I did not lose audio. Unfortunately , it doesn't have the removable nvme card on this model. I followed the installation instructions for mint from a channel called Phazer Tech. I think it was his 3rd video on the evolve. It also fixed the wifi problem. Also there are some 4 port usb hubs that aren't much bigger than a thumb drive. Currently using one on an orange pi with no issues. You tube won't let me post a link, but I could tweet a link if you need me to.
For me, this is not an either-or choice but rather a situation of better together. I have one of these laptops and am content to run Windows on it. I also have several Raspberry Pis and find that a Zero 2 W at $15 (list, if you can find one) makes an excellent, low-cost, dedicated computer for 24/7 use with digital modes such as an APRS digipeater. The reason I say better together is that there are many times that one wants a keyboard and screen to interact with a Pi. At $60 the laptop is perhaps the cheapest solution for a screen of that size that includes a keyboard. One can use a tablet or cellphone to VPN into the Pi, but one does not generally have a keyboard on a cellphone or tablet. Why not simply use laptops? Assuming one has multiple rigs, such as one at home, one in the car, one for POTA/SOTA, etc., does it make sense to dedicate a laptop to each rig rather than a $15 Pi? For some, perhaps. For me, one laptop with multiple Pis dedicated to each rig makes more sense. DE WA1KLI
Using Build-a-Pi I got a RPi all set up to roll to hotels along with a wireless keyboard/track pad and HDMI cable for the hotel room TV. Along comes the $60 laptop, freeing me from the hotel room TV and letting me easily hit the field with my 817. The $60 laptop is well worth what I spent.
Don't forget that a USB hub can expand those 2 USB ports very easily and cheaply. It won't take much to drive the GPS and Sound dongles. Also, it's probably only a matter of time before support for the sound chip on the Maestro is added to the Linux kernel, if it isn't already in the pipeline. That said, I'm building my portable APRS / Winlink / etc station on a Pi 3B, because it's more than enough computer, burns less power (especially if you underclock it) and the GPIO pins means I don't need a digirig or signalink just to handle PTT for me. I can wire up an optoisolator on a little perfboard and cram in into the same 3d-printed case that'll have the shucked GPS, RTC, Sabrent and custom power regulator (they can be had for far, far less than $17).
You could go hybrid. GPSd and FLRig work over the network, and audio has some tools to send over the network. Run your apps on the laptop, then have a pi terminate all the cables, and share them over WiFi.
I was looking for a Pi replacement so I could free up the 3B I used for my 3D printer. I ended up buying an Inovato Quadra for $29 bucks. It's just a T95 mini that has a port of Debian on it. Before I added it to my 3D printer, I installed Direwolf, GPSD, and connected my GPS receiver, and RA-35 sound card to it, and had an excellent Digipeater If you are looking for a Pi alternative, I highly suggest checking these things out. They work really well.
Thanks for the power consumption comparisons. 500mA seems extremely low for a Windows capable laptop. How did you factor out the laptop's 2-cell battery I wonder? Disconnected? Like you, I have no use for M$ Windows bloat, but I do wonder if you have tested Vara FM with Winlink, perhaps via Wine on linux. I'm looking for the lowest power mobile implementation of Vara FM for ARES EmComm ...while the display is off/detached.
Yes. I have tested VARA FM and VARA HF on the laptop. Both will install and work. I'll have a video out before the end of October. Working on a script that will make the install super simple :-)
@@KM4ACK Thanks. Look forward to it. I may buy one and see how low I can bring the power usage. How did you measure its 500mA power consumption? Did you disconnect the battery perhaps?
If you need more USB ports, expansions are available and very reasonably priced. Thanks, Jason. Good info here. IMHO both are desirable for the reasons you outlined.
So I watched your video about the laptop. Sounds interesting. Wondering what programs you are using and if you plan to do something in Linux like bap. I use Lubuntu on a old Acer computer I have and it seems to run really well it uses low resources on the CPU. So that said wondering if you would make a video in the field with you using the laptop. I like raspberry pi but I am starting to get frustrated with it having to update it and all the programs is not always easy even with bap. Thanks for all you do.
I have repeatedly done the imagineering, comparing the Raspberry Pi to a small notebook for amateur radio field work, and the best argument for the Pi was Build A Pi. I run Build A Pi for my solar powered home shack computer and it's great. I have had two different notebooks for field use. The most recent is an Asus Eee PC, and it's now fairly antiquated. I kept trying to talk myself into a Pi kit for field use but the numbers never added up for me. For cost, weight, power use and integrated simplicity of use, a notebook always comes out on top. It's great that the Evolve uses a 12VDC power supply. That keeps things simple and efficient. I want three or more USB ports for a sound card dongle, CAT control and GPS. I'd been considering a Chromebook but the Evolve looks good too. I wish someone created a Linux distro specifically for amateur radio field use, preferably with a recommended list of notebooks and laptops. We've had a couple of amateur radio distros but nothing quite took off like Build A Pi did for the Raspberry Pi. It'd be great to plug in a USB thumb drive, boot from it, and have it replace Windows with a ham radio field kit distro. I love overwriting Windows the way oncologists love curing cancer.
The Chromebooks can be a bit annoying to get a full version of Linux running. Some of them are easier than others but no one method works across the board. That's the primary reason I have stayed away from them.
Good video -- I built the QRP-labs QDX to run FT8. I wanted to take it out and give it a try. I got an Evolve III and it made that little trial very easy,. Just load WSJTX, get a 12 volt supply and connect a cable and I was in operation. First try was on the weekend of the FT8 contest. Made a bunch of contacts and even got a POTA hit that weekend. I had been building PI box to use with the QDX, but had not finished setting it up. the Evolve made the whole thing easy. Now if I can figure out how to load Linux on it I'll be really happy....
The laptop has the advantage of being an all-in-one. Using a good quality USB hub/switch will help. Running a LINUX flavor? Wouldn't Build A Pi work there, too?
I hooked it to a 4 cell lipo yesterday and it charged at 15.12 volts and it was drawing 1.4 amps while having several tabs open and a TH-cam video playing. It seems to have a wide voltage range it will charge at.
Great video! When I asked. you in HSV why anyone would use a raspberry Pi vs a cheap laptop you gave a me a great answer. I appreciate you going more in detail on the pros and cons.of both options! Very unbiased discussion! I too loath Windows but know nothing about Linux.
You are obviously on TH-cam. Take the time to learn Linux. There are literally thousands of TH-cam videos on Linux. Search for Linux for beginners etc. You will not regret it. Embrace the command line. The GUI has a lot of limitations as any GUI on any computer will always have.
ปีที่แล้ว
Currently I'd use a Raspberry Pi 400 for the RPi side. $70 including keyboard and case, and you can actually buy them for $70.
I like Linux as well… but I ended up getting a windows tablet (and then bought an evolve laptop) to be able to run winlink, N3fjp and radio firmware upgrade programs. I haven’t had a lot of success with wine on Linux. Is there another way to run those kinds of programs? Thanks.
WINE is the only way to run some of those apps under Linux. No doubt it can be super frustrating to get up and working like it should. The easier way would be to load Linux and then run Windows in a VM if you needed a few Windows only apps occasionally.
Great content as always it does bring up a question that I have had and not had a chance to test yet and that is does build a pie work on other Linux systems
I bought the Evolve Maestro 3, specifically to run Ham Radio programs on it, at home and in the field. Plus it runs off of 12 VDC, size is small, and its very affordable. And it runs the full version of Windows 10. Sure its limited to storage space and hard drive speed. But I added a 256GB Micro Flash card, for additional storage. And that will hold me for quit some time. It runs Echolink, VaraFm, and Winlink just fine. as well as having the capability for running an APRS program. And I can get color weather radar, in the field. And easily exchange e-mails. A big plus is the small size. it fits in my ammo can / Go-Box, and larger size suit case style dry box, with ease. If I need need more USB ports, there is a USB3 adapter that adds 4 more ports. My only complaint is that MY laptop, has a loos wiring connection inside the screen / lid. When I move it back and forth, for a better viewing angle, it will go black. After squeezing the base, it will come back on! So, I may be returning the unit for replacement, while under Warranty. But, it continues to work for me! I have heard that it has been hard to get parts, to build a Raspberry Pi. I don't know or run Linux. and the cost can also exceed the price of the Maestro laptop.
For a new user, yes, the laptop MAY be a better thought, power wise. (caveats) Unfortunately, the hats available make a better option, and more options than USB devices. You did get into servers, mobile options, space needed, etc... that the Pi is the clear winner. USB flexibility? 1 3.1, 1 2, which for most people would require hubs, and the power needed for USB devices (and you forgot the power draw for a USB self-powered hub). Instant multi use? Swap an SDCard or USB drive on a Pi, and you have another setup. You didn't say how easy it is to run a bootable USB Drive, and you also run into the lack of ports if you do so. You mention build quality, would you use the laptop for a server? Will you be advancing BAP to it? Me, I'll use Pi for BAP servers and laptops or tablets for KVMs and other needed functionality...
You are right. The ability to swap SD cards on the Pi is VERY appealing and a huge bonus. If you need GPIO pins for buttons or hats, the Pi is the only way to go. Like most things in ham radio, pick the right tool for the job. I wouldn't ever consider a laptop as a full time server. Too many other options (including the Pi) that are a better choice.
Haven't played with any of them so I can't say one way or the other. I did try one of the Android TV devices recently. I was able to get most of the software loaded but found the hardware much too slow.
MicroCenter now offers a ~100$ laptop by ASUS with: Upgradable to WIN11, RJ45 ethernet port, multiband WiFi 802.11ax. Your review should be very interesting. Stan
I took a look. The only one I see sub $100 takes 15V to charge making it more difficult to run from the batteries we use for radio. Other than that, it is very similar to the Evolve Maestro.
There's a few left at Amazon amzn.to/3Mm0ld7 but it doesn't have to be the Maestro. We can use any small sub $150 laptop and accomplish the same task. Just check to see what voltage they natively run on as 12V is preferred.
@@KM4ACK Adds a keyboard and better cooling. Takes away that 4th USB port. For my use case (low vision) the Pi will always win until they start making 20" or larger laptop screens. I need to do a power load check on the two 12 volt screens I use.
Pi4 with all the best goodies is unbeatable. That means fast flash, official power supply critical, heat sink and fan, you pick the rest of the accessories. I made 2 portables out of them. One, a boombox and the other a sub notebook from a portable DVD player. Both run the same Android and Twister OS, both touchscreen, both can run on 12v Milwaukee drill batteries. I can watch a movie on one and play PS1 on the other. I love them both. Just figured out how to make an IR remote work tonight. The best feature is all the people individually making the PI work, solving problems.
Great video Jason. I use my Evolve laptop (Windows) with my 891 and a Digirig external sound card. I tried using a 4 port USB hub to see what would happen. Plugged both the 891 and the Digirig into the hub and they are working great for digital portable so far, mostly Winlink and WSJT-X. de KF3BH
The Evolve III is ever so slightly faster. To me, the field portable laptop with screen, keyboard, mouse, 12v wins -- in the field... and the Pi wins as a dedicated compute module for a specific task. Could agree with you more!
I will using my RPi4/4 and the Surface Go 2 I just bought as two workable options. Got it for a bargain and just reset it and I love it.
The JankaPOTAmus is not worth buying and posting to Australia.. I think the Surface Go 2 will last longer and if you can find the better LTE model, it has on board GPS and then just buy a ruggedised case. Happy times! ;)
My Surface Go 2 (LTE model) is working well for digi modes in the field, however I’ve yet to discover how to enable the gps. It appears an LTE SIM card may be required. Any insight you could share? Thx, W6DSG
@@don3394 I'm not sure TBH, mine is not the LTE version because they are hard to find but I will get one. The LTE version also has the GPS but I really don't think you would need to have a sim installed to enable it. Maybe just try your phone sim as a test. I have a few USB GPS units ordered for now as they are cheap but not internal. I can find a first gen Go with LTE & GPS but waiting for a used Go2 with it. No videos I've seen on them say a sim is required for GPS as it shouldn't be. Can you see it in the "Device Manager" it should be there?
Thank you for the reply. I found my Surface Go 2 online, as a new, open box item at a reasonable price. I confirmed it is the LTE model, and can see the cellular modem in the device manager. However, I have been unable as of yet to activate the gps function.
I was considering trying an active SIM card, which is my next experiment.
When I am in cell range I have used my phone as a wifi hotspot, but places I like to POTA have no signal.
One drawback of the Surface is that it has only one USB port, so attaching a digital mode sound interface, gps dongle, and power source all at the same time could present difficulty.
Thx again for your suggestions.
Laptop - amzn.to/3Chu2aP
Of course next year another Raspberry Pi will come out and everyone will have to do this test again.
Good points Jason! But I think, the Raspberry is much easier to backup. Its easy to carry 2 Raspberries with a bunch of redundant SD cards. Display ia good point too, but thanks to VNC I can use nearly any device I may carry anyway. Phone, tablet, laptop, chromebook as long as a VNC client is available. On my portable activities I normally use the Raspberry as my main ham radio computer and use my Dell Toughbook als the display :-) But, the Toughbook is configured to do the job in case the Raspberry fails. :-) 73, Stephan, DF6PA P.S. Vara on the Raspberry works well, thanks to your videos!
The ease of swapping SD cards is one of the things I don't care for with the laptop. I'll probably keep a Pi in my bag as a backup that I could VNC into with my phone in a pinch.
When I was camping I ran into this scenario. I brought the evolve and a pi as a backup. The evolve introduced so much rfi into my 705, I had to pull out the pi (which has never given rfi problems).
It actually worked really well, as I had the pi plugged into the 705, and could use my phone to vnc in and run js8 while sitting around the campfire.
Jason, I think you may have skipped over a very important use case: the $60 laptop can be used as the interface to the pi. Other than for light access, you aren’t going to use a phone. A tablet/iPad can be used, but really to fully use the Pi you need a monitor, keyboard and mouse. Here’s a $60 monitor keyboard and mouse all in one. Oh yeah, you could even use the laptop instead of the pi if the use case warrants it.
I don’t think this is an either or situation. I think the laptop is probably another tool to add to the overall kit.
Great points! I was using my evolve just as you described for a while. Now that I have a bit more time, I am trying to get all of my radio apps loaded onto the laptop.
Jason, Thank you for a very honest evaluation.
Microcenter has them in stock again for $79.99!
I’ve got the Evolve III. No issues so far. But, it is a $95 laptop.
Another great video, Jason! I'm shopping for my first Pi and will soon (I hope) embark on my own build-a-pi journey.
I have been pleased with the Evolve's performance in the field. For use with a Yaesu rig that needs the two cables use digi rig has the two cables on the radio side and one usb at the computer side. For those who intend to keep windows HRCC has a video covering set up and how to debloat windows. It will run better after debloating windows.
Depending on the Yaesu rig, you might also be able to run CAT over bluetooth. There's a bluetooth adapter available for the 8x7 series of radios that works well. I use it for both my 817 and 857. Won't work with the 891 though.
One more advantage for the Pi: it has built-in Ethernet. There are some use cases where that is important. If you need Ethernet on the Evolve you'll have to add a USB Ethernet adapter, which will use up one of the two USB ports. Preferably the USB 3.0 port on the left; you won't get full speed from a gigabit Ethernet adapter if you plug it into the other port.
Great point. I had to buy the Ethernet adapter for the laptop so I could get online and download the wifi drivers.
Many users seem unaware that the Evolve Maestro supports both stereo audio out and microphone in. This works perfectly for FT8 and WSPR on a truSDX rig, for instance. The Maestro's audio connector is a tip-ring-ring-sleeve type where the tip is L audio out, the 1st ring is R audio out, the 2nd ring is ground and the sleeve is microphone in. A few hacked dollar-store cables does the trick. Some audio level fiddling may be needed. IMHO this eliminates the need for a separate USB sound card. Great comparison video. Thanks ! 73's, N2GX
great suggestion
A couple months ago I bought a Chromebook. Come to find out you can enable "developer mode" and install a stripped down linux with a few button clicks with the last couple of versions. I've got TQSL, CQRLog, JTDX, FLDIGI, FLRIG, FLMSG and a host of other programs installed on there now (including a proper desktop version of firefox). Super lightweight, relatively inexpensive, touchscreen, runs on USB-C, 8-10 hour battery life (according to the manufacturer). A couple extra steps needed to access drives on the Chromebook or USB drives plugged into it. Haven't tried setting up GPS yet. 2 USB A ports and two USB-C ports, one one each side. When I traveled, a USB extender with HDMI output worked well and powered additional USB devices. This will need to be tested, of course, with linux and the radios.
Of course, the real test will be when I get my radios connected.
Might be worth looking into in addition to this Evolve laptop.
GPS doesn't work in the linux environment "Crostini". It's been recommended to go into full developer mode and install "Crouton" for direct access to the hardware. Downside is, you loose the built-in "Trusted Boot" security of the Chromebook.
I am looking forward to BAP being ported to i386 (and hopefully AMD64) machines. I use a Raspberry Pi (actually I have two. Two is one and one is none). I do have a Lenovo Thinkpad, and I run Ubuntu in the latest version. That has some power behind it. It is lightweight and rugged. The battery charge lasts for 4+ hours. I do have a 12 volt charger for it, so I can keep it charged up from my photovoltaic system. I don't know how much power it draws. I would like to have BAP run on this machine.
Jason, mine is either version 3 or 4, and I did not lose audio. Unfortunately , it doesn't have the removable nvme card on this model. I followed the installation instructions for mint from a channel called Phazer Tech. I think it was his 3rd video on the evolve. It also fixed the wifi problem.
Also there are some 4 port usb hubs that aren't much bigger than a thumb drive. Currently using one on an orange pi with no issues. You tube won't let me post a link, but I could tweet a link if you need me to.
For me, this is not an either-or choice but rather a situation of better together. I have one of these laptops and am content to run Windows on it. I also have several Raspberry Pis and find that a Zero 2 W at $15 (list, if you can find one) makes an excellent, low-cost, dedicated computer for 24/7 use with digital modes such as an APRS digipeater.
The reason I say better together is that there are many times that one wants a keyboard and screen to interact with a Pi. At $60 the laptop is perhaps the cheapest solution for a screen of that size that includes a keyboard. One can use a tablet or cellphone to VPN into the Pi, but one does not generally have a keyboard on a cellphone or tablet.
Why not simply use laptops? Assuming one has multiple rigs, such as one at home, one in the car, one for POTA/SOTA, etc., does it make sense to dedicate a laptop to each rig rather than a $15 Pi? For some, perhaps. For me, one laptop with multiple Pis dedicated to each rig makes more sense. DE WA1KLI
Excellent points! I run a Pi 2 Zero for my Winlink gateway. My APRS digi is still running on an ancient Pi 3.
Using Build-a-Pi I got a RPi all set up to roll to hotels along with a wireless keyboard/track pad and HDMI cable for the hotel room TV. Along comes the $60 laptop, freeing me from the hotel room TV and letting me easily hit the field with my 817. The $60 laptop is well worth what I spent.
Don't forget that a USB hub can expand those 2 USB ports very easily and cheaply. It won't take much to drive the GPS and Sound dongles.
Also, it's probably only a matter of time before support for the sound chip on the Maestro is added to the Linux kernel, if it isn't already in the pipeline.
That said, I'm building my portable APRS / Winlink / etc station on a Pi 3B, because it's more than enough computer, burns less power (especially if you underclock it) and the GPIO pins means I don't need a digirig or signalink just to handle PTT for me. I can wire up an optoisolator on a little perfboard and cram in into the same 3d-printed case that'll have the shucked GPS, RTC, Sabrent and custom power regulator (they can be had for far, far less than $17).
You could go hybrid. GPSd and FLRig work over the network, and audio has some tools to send over the network. Run your apps on the laptop, then have a pi terminate all the cables, and share them over WiFi.
I was looking for a Pi replacement so I could free up the 3B I used for my 3D printer. I ended up buying an Inovato Quadra for $29 bucks. It's just a T95 mini that has a port of Debian on it. Before I added it to my 3D printer, I installed Direwolf, GPSD, and connected my GPS receiver, and RA-35 sound card to it, and had an excellent Digipeater If you are looking for a Pi alternative, I highly suggest checking these things out. They work really well.
Thanks for the power consumption comparisons. 500mA seems extremely low for a Windows capable laptop. How did you factor out the laptop's 2-cell battery I wonder? Disconnected?
Like you, I have no use for M$ Windows bloat, but I do wonder if you have tested Vara FM with Winlink, perhaps via Wine on linux. I'm looking for the lowest power mobile implementation of Vara FM for ARES EmComm ...while the display is off/detached.
Yes. I have tested VARA FM and VARA HF on the laptop. Both will install and work. I'll have a video out before the end of October. Working on a script that will make the install super simple :-)
@@KM4ACK Thanks. Look forward to it. I may buy one and see how low I can bring the power usage. How did you measure its 500mA power consumption? Did you disconnect the battery perhaps?
If you need more USB ports, expansions are available and very reasonably priced. Thanks, Jason. Good info here. IMHO both are desirable for the reasons you outlined.
Yeah, Kinda done with the PI. Still need a laptop to VNC into and config can be a real PIA. I am onto that evolve-
The Evolve running Linux is awesome for the price point of the computer.
Looking forward to seeing more exploration with the Evolve!
A series will start later this month showing how to get up and running with the Evolve and Linux.
Appreciated this video! Do you have capacity to calculate the weight difference between the 2 set ups for the backpackers to consider? Grateful!
So I watched your video about the laptop. Sounds interesting. Wondering what programs you are using and if you plan to do something in Linux like bap. I use Lubuntu on a old Acer computer I have and it seems to run really well it uses low resources on the CPU. So that said wondering if you would make a video in the field with you using the laptop.
I like raspberry pi but I am starting to get frustrated with it having to update it and all the programs is not always easy even with bap.
Thanks for all you do.
I run my Pi headless as a NAS with usb hdds.
The build a pi software is excellent for the pi, any plans for a general Linux version?
Look for 73Linux repo in my GitHub.
I have repeatedly done the imagineering, comparing the Raspberry Pi to a small notebook for amateur radio field work, and the best argument for the Pi was Build A Pi. I run Build A Pi for my solar powered home shack computer and it's great. I have had two different notebooks for field use. The most recent is an Asus Eee PC, and it's now fairly antiquated. I kept trying to talk myself into a Pi kit for field use but the numbers never added up for me. For cost, weight, power use and integrated simplicity of use, a notebook always comes out on top. It's great that the Evolve uses a 12VDC power supply. That keeps things simple and efficient. I want three or more USB ports for a sound card dongle, CAT control and GPS. I'd been considering a Chromebook but the Evolve looks good too.
I wish someone created a Linux distro specifically for amateur radio field use, preferably with a recommended list of notebooks and laptops. We've had a couple of amateur radio distros but nothing quite took off like Build A Pi did for the Raspberry Pi. It'd be great to plug in a USB thumb drive, boot from it, and have it replace Windows with a ham radio field kit distro. I love overwriting Windows the way oncologists love curing cancer.
The Chromebooks can be a bit annoying to get a full version of Linux running. Some of them are easier than others but no one method works across the board. That's the primary reason I have stayed away from them.
@@KM4ACK - Me too.
Good video -- I built the QRP-labs QDX to run FT8. I wanted to take it out and give it a try. I got an Evolve III and it made that little trial very easy,. Just load WSJTX, get a 12 volt supply and connect a cable and I was in operation. First try was on the weekend of the FT8 contest. Made a bunch of contacts and even got a POTA hit that weekend.
I had been building PI box to use with the QDX, but had not finished setting it up. the Evolve made the whole thing easy. Now if I can figure out how to load Linux on it I'll be really happy....
There's a how to video coming soon that walks you through the process of loading Linux :-)
The laptop has the advantage of being an all-in-one. Using a good quality USB hub/switch will help. Running a LINUX flavor? Wouldn't Build A Pi work there, too?
Build a Pi is specific to the Pi's ARM processor. Some of it works on x86 but much of it will not.
I hooked it to a 4 cell lipo yesterday and it charged at 15.12 volts and it was drawing 1.4 amps while having several tabs open and a TH-cam video playing. It seems to have a wide voltage range it will charge at.
Great video! When I asked. you in HSV why anyone would use a raspberry Pi vs a cheap laptop you gave a me a great answer. I appreciate you going more in detail on the pros and cons.of both options! Very unbiased discussion! I too loath Windows but know nothing about Linux.
Linux isn't the easiest thing to learn but once you get the hang of it and understand a few basics, it's actually hard to go back to Windows.
You are obviously on TH-cam. Take the time to learn Linux. There are literally thousands of TH-cam videos on Linux. Search for Linux for beginners etc. You will not regret it. Embrace the command line. The GUI has a lot of limitations as any GUI on any computer will always have.
Currently I'd use a Raspberry Pi 400 for the RPi side. $70 including keyboard and case, and you can actually buy them for $70.
True but you are still missing the monitor needed for a rough fair comparison to the laptop.
I like Linux as well… but I ended up getting a windows tablet (and then bought an evolve laptop) to be able to run winlink, N3fjp and radio firmware upgrade programs. I haven’t had a lot of success with wine on Linux. Is there another way to run those kinds of programs? Thanks.
WINE is the only way to run some of those apps under Linux. No doubt it can be super frustrating to get up and working like it should. The easier way would be to load Linux and then run Windows in a VM if you needed a few Windows only apps occasionally.
Agree: Pi best as headless server, Evolv as remote user interface
Does the Evolve handle 13.8v ok? I know the PSU is 12v, but want to be sure I don't harm it over time.
I've been running mine off of 13.8 for almost 3 months now.
@@KM4ACK thank you
Great content as always it does bring up a question that I have had and not had a chance to test yet and that is does build a pie work on other Linux systems
Not at this time :-( Some of it will work but much of it will not.
I bought the Evolve Maestro 3, specifically to run Ham Radio programs on it, at home and in the field. Plus it runs off of 12 VDC, size is small, and its very affordable. And it runs the full version of Windows 10. Sure its limited to storage space and hard drive speed. But I added a 256GB Micro Flash card, for additional storage. And that will hold me for quit some time. It runs Echolink, VaraFm, and Winlink just fine. as well as having the capability for running an APRS program. And I can get color weather radar, in the field. And easily exchange e-mails. A big plus is the small size. it fits in my ammo can / Go-Box, and larger size suit case style dry box, with ease. If I need need more USB ports, there is a USB3 adapter that adds 4 more ports.
My only complaint is that MY laptop, has a loos wiring connection inside the screen / lid. When I move it back and forth, for a better viewing angle, it will go black. After squeezing the base, it will come back on! So, I may be returning the unit for replacement, while under Warranty. But, it continues to work for me!
I have heard that it has been hard to get parts, to build a Raspberry Pi. I don't know or run Linux. and the cost can also exceed the price of the Maestro laptop.
Bummer that the screen has an issue. Hopefully you can get it repaired. It might just be a loose connection.
@@KM4ACK I am pretty sure it is! Thanks
Helpful!
For a new user, yes, the laptop MAY be a better thought, power wise. (caveats)
Unfortunately, the hats available make a better option, and more options than USB devices.
You did get into servers, mobile options, space needed, etc... that the Pi is the clear winner.
USB flexibility? 1 3.1, 1 2, which for most people would require hubs, and the power needed for USB devices (and you forgot the power draw for a USB self-powered hub).
Instant multi use? Swap an SDCard or USB drive on a Pi, and you have another setup. You didn't say how easy it is to run a bootable USB Drive, and you also run into the lack of ports if you do so.
You mention build quality, would you use the laptop for a server? Will you be advancing BAP to it?
Me, I'll use Pi for BAP servers and laptops or tablets for KVMs and other needed functionality...
You are right. The ability to swap SD cards on the Pi is VERY appealing and a huge bonus. If you need GPIO pins for buttons or hats, the Pi is the only way to go. Like most things in ham radio, pick the right tool for the job.
I wouldn't ever consider a laptop as a full time server. Too many other options (including the Pi) that are a better choice.
Raspberry pi- is no longer a low cost item since Covid pandemic!
What about those generic rasp pi? They do have a good price.
Haven't played with any of them so I can't say one way or the other. I did try one of the Android TV devices recently. I was able to get most of the software loaded but found the hardware much too slow.
MicroCenter now offers a ~100$ laptop by ASUS with: Upgradable to WIN11, RJ45 ethernet port, multiband WiFi 802.11ax. Your review should be very interesting. Stan
I took a look. The only one I see sub $100 takes 15V to charge making it more difficult to run from the batteries we use for radio. Other than that, it is very similar to the Evolve Maestro.
Of course the maestro laptop is pretty much sold out at every micro center so this like dreaming for pink ponies and rainbows-lol
There's a few left at Amazon amzn.to/3Mm0ld7 but it doesn't have to be the Maestro. We can use any small sub $150 laptop and accomplish the same task. Just check to see what voltage they natively run on as 12V is preferred.
Spoiler alert: this was, indeed, the end
Are you going to release a “build a pi” script for a cheap laptop?
I can neither confirm nor deny :-)
Fair enough it would raise your work load by 2 to the power of 2 ie 4 times. Keep smiling.
But Jason you seem to ignore the very available and capable Pi400?
Not ignoring it and the same $$ and power consumption comparison would apply to the 400 as well since it is a Pi 4 under the hood.
@@KM4ACK Adds a keyboard and better cooling. Takes away that 4th USB port. For my use case (low vision) the Pi will always win until they start making 20" or larger laptop screens. I need to do a power load check on the two 12 volt screens I use.
The $60 laptop was great for the month when you could get it. Now it looks like twice as much and do you trust eBay
You can still get them on Amazon for about $90 - amzn.to/3yBMKc7
Pi4 with all the best goodies is unbeatable. That means fast flash, official power supply critical, heat sink and fan, you pick the rest of the accessories. I made 2 portables out of them. One, a boombox and the other a sub notebook from a portable DVD player. Both run the same Android and Twister OS, both touchscreen, both can run on 12v Milwaukee drill batteries. I can watch a movie on one and play PS1 on the other. I love them both. Just figured out how to make an IR remote work tonight. The best feature is all the people individually making the PI work, solving problems.
Not gonna be sticking a laptop in a tube
one problem for all of us who aren't in the US, purchasing from a Microcenter is a non-starter .. so for me it is stil pi all the way..🤔
Bummer....Have you checked Amazon? amzn.to/3Mm0ld7
Wahoo
Great video Jason. I use my Evolve laptop (Windows) with my 891 and a Digirig external sound card. I tried using a 4 port USB hub to see what would happen. Plugged both the 891 and the Digirig into the hub and they are working great for digital portable so far, mostly Winlink and WSJT-X. de KF3BH