☝️Muslim becomes Atheist/Polytheist while he commits Crime Prophet (ﷺ) said, "When an adulterer commits illegal sexual intercourse, then he is not a believer at the time, he is doing it, and when a drinker of an alcoholic liquor drinks it, then he is not a believer at the time of drinking it, and when a thief steals, then he is not a believer at the time of stealing, and when a robber robs, and the people look at him, then he is not a believer at the time of doing robbery Sahih al-Bukhari 2475
Very good, succinct articulation of complex ideas, well done! Thanks for the book suggestion! I found Yuval Noah Hariri's Sapiens a great read to understand the evolution of humans from pre-historic to modern society.
my rule is simple we live in a human society we should be kind to each other take care of nature and animals and do everything within our ability to make the world better I do not believe in supernatural powers or superstitions I focus on reason and compassion to guide my actions I took massage from my school teacher Your video was really informative
As atheists we can have a neutral and unbiased perspective of every religion. I find it very funny when religious people from one religion condemn others while justifying their own...
It's not about whether it comes from religion or religion was needed to implement it. But what makes a man do good things and why should he do it? Why should I believe in moral and ethics? Why should anyone not kill others or steal from others? If today there are no legal laws or if they believe they can get away with it they will do bad things? There needs to be an ultimate justice and fairness, not everyone has life as good as us? Religion explains it and give reason for doing good. I don't believe atheist are immoral but I do want to ask where do they get their morals from? What do they want in return for doing good and if other is an atheist also how do they make him do good in return? It is irrelevant whether religion predates morality or otherwise. What matters is whether it is of significance in today's world?
Being decent and expecting something in return is such a religion-based argument. Are you saying everyone is a criminal by default? Religion hasn't stopped any criminals ever. And the lack of religion hasn't turned any decent man into a criminal. Ethics is (as I pointed out) based on our relationship with the society around us. There's a real cause and effect in place and stealing, killing have real world consequences. Just because you "feel" like there needs to be a higher power to judge you, doesn't mean there is.
@@TheIanPanda so how can you make someone stop doing bad if he believes he can get away with the consequences? In order to punish for a crime is needs to happen for the first time, how can you stop it for the very first time? then there are really ambiguous things like polygamy, adultery, money laundering apart from its legal aspects. Do you believe that there is now no need for religion now that there is law in place?
@amirsohil5644 - Has the existence of religion stopped any of the things you just named? All I am saying is - that religions think they somehow make people good - and that's bull. People do what they want to - religions are made to manipulate people. So people use it to enforce their will wherever possible.
@@TheIanPanda my question wasn't this. Whether religion manipulates or not can be subjective. A knife, though useful, can be used to murder. And atheist shouldn't have a problem with manipulation 'cause for them there is nothing to be gained by not doing it. I am asking you why should you be good and why should I be good? Or for you it doesn't matter and just want to prove that religion is just vanity? with out morals prescribed by the religion it will be your morals or mine. What will be considered right and wrong then, and who gets to decide?
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points: Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion. Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems. Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first. While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms. --- 2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence: Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians): The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice. Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions. Ancient Egypt: Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it. Indus Valley Civilization: While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices. China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties): Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained. In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong. --- 3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise Secular Frameworks: Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority. Evolutionary Psychology: Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations. Rejection of Divine Authority: By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority. --- 4. Why This Argument is Flawed Confusing Instincts with Morality: Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion. Historical Evidence: The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record. Broad Definition of Religion: Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading. --- 5. The Religious Foundation of Morality Accountability to the Divine: Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will. Codification of Morality: Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations. Community and Cohesion: Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics. --- 6. Modern Implications Undermining Religion's Role: By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity. Selective Narratives: Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster. The Need for Contextual Understanding: Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values. --- Conclusion The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
A truly perfect God wouldn't even think of creating anything, let alone a universe where beings suffer. If god was perfect, everything was already perfect.
That's quite a statement. But here's my take on this. If God did make a universe that was perfect where there was no disease, no immorality etc. Humans simply wouldn't have advanced as they have today. If we had no pain we would never understand what pain is. If someone was never sick we would have never understood what an illness is. If God gave everything to them without question humans will take that God for granted and very soon will think less of God and eventually go on a path of immorality because of the belief God would say nothing to them. So it would have been inevitable either way. Humans can be the kindest but at the same time the most despicable creatures of this world.
That is in your zombie mind to think "A truly perfect God" where is it said ??? please provide evidence or you are making your own stuff out of thin air ??
@@radicaldrake7064 so what you are saying is that A PERFECT GOD made IMPERFECT HUMANS?? if humans became lazy then y didnt god just make them HARDWORKING? why did he choose to make some humans criminals and some victims so that criminals can abuse victims and he would enjoy that?
@@shadow11764 dude God ain't perfect at least in Sanatan. God being perfect is mostly abrahamic religions. Good and Evil are literally parts of the all mighty Parabrahman that is the Supreme Consciousness. Wherever perfection is Imperfection will be there. That is not to be ignored. See stop taking Sanatan in literal terms and try to delve more philosophically then you'll probably understand. And if your talking about imperfect. Humans are not made imperfect. They have the potential to be imperfect. Now one might say what about disabled people why are they born like that? Perfection isn't just physical, it's spiritual and it's mental. A disabled man may look imperfect but he feels perfect in a life where he has good people and happiness. Vice Versa he feels imperfect when he is surrounded by Negativity and abuse for his condition. But the thing is he feels imperfect not because he is actually like that it's because the people around him make him feel like that. Then why do people act like assholes? Why couldn't God create perfect people that he will like and will worship him? Because if God does love us he won't force us to worship him. That's the reason we have freewill. As Humans we are free to make our own choices as long as it doesn't hurt others. “Suffering” and “pleasure, “good” and “evil” are relative judgemental concepts based on a conditioned personal perspective. From an absolute objective point of view there is neither good nor evil - there is simply BEING. Everything in the world is a gray area.
Majhab hi h sikhata apas mein vair rakhna. E.g. christians: those who don't believe in god are son of Satan Islam: those who don't believe in Allah are kaafir. Hindu: those who don't believe in ishwar are mallech.
Meanwhile Christian: "Oh, so you accept Jesus is your lord and savior, but you are black skinned so you should have your separate Church from us White Skinned ones." Muslim: "So you are a Muslim as well, good to know, but you are not an Arab , so you are inferior." Hindu: " So you too are a Raam bhakt, good, but you are a Sudra, so you should not enter the temple of Raam or offer prayers or read holy texts, just give your money to us, we will do all that behalf of you so you can get punya and don't get birth as a Sudra in next life..." If you are reading this comment, means TH-cam haven't deleted it.
Lol 😂 neither a arab is greater than non arab or neither white is greater than black all are equal - last sermon from ghadir e khum by prophet Muhammad PBUH
It means There's nothing good or bad just thinking make it so...hence proved Hitler wasn't guilty of killing millions of people...now don't be hypocrite Pendu bhai 😂😂..okay 👍??
This is what happens when you're so concerned with trolling someone that you fail to watch the video itself. Morality stems from the rules of society, where murder has always been considered wrong. So I am not sure what you're rambling about!
Why it is immoral for an atheist to commit consensual non reproductive incest? Some atheist like Armin Navabi believe it is not immoral what is your view on that
I don't know who this Armin Navabi is, or what his rationale is. But I feel like it's less about morality and more about social acceptance. Personally, I am a single child - so I don't really know how one feels for a sister/brother - but having been raised with contemporary social conditioning, I can tell you that the idea feels icky. But then, we have seen that religions and culture have a big role to play in how we view these things - cousin marriages are prevalent in Hindus in various parts of the country. Yeah, the same thing that people demonize Muslims for. Who knows - maybe social stance on it might change over centuries. But the genetic issues with siblings procreating form a good argument against the practice. These are my views but I believe in letting people decide things for themselves.
@@TheIanPandacousin marriage is actually more common in South India. Having been raised in Kerala as a Mallu most of my life I have met a lot of mallus who were cousins and married.
Bhai jo sab tum is video me samjha rahe ho itni complex or logical cheeze agar believers ko samajh aa jaya karti toh shayad vo log religious nahi hote 😭😆
That has been done by so many. I am focusing more on concept level videos . Debunking such idiots is not even necessary. I am instead thinking of doing a livestream where I do a critical reading of the Quran. And other religious books too.
@@TheIanPanda do on critical thinking and Scientific Method and logical reasoning. Many lack in it. So called educated people like directors of IITs and iitains spread pseudo science and misinformation.
@@TheIanPanda one time in class my physics teacher said many people are not educated in India and then started talking about how phone emits radiation and it causes Heart attack 😂
Most theists do things in fear,not from their heart (obviously there might be some who do from their heart but i am speaking most),Some does to show off like in my church many did things which was against but they simply say "forgive me jesus" which made feel bad.The same goes to many religious people who may do more pojas,namas,prayer,etc...but who do this also turn out be a criminal(not all but some) ,as a person i have a code of ethics and ideology which is enogh
There are good and bad people everywhere, irrespective of their religious affiliations, or lack thereof. That's why I have a hard time believing that religions can affect people's behaviours significantly. In fact, the religious dogma and biases have a clear negative effect on many people, as you pointed out.
@@TheIanPandaYou certainly haven't met a lot of people I believe. The Jain community is hardcore vegitarian and their beliefs have changed them for good. Maybe not the modern day but the majority are still vegetarian. You sir have a very narrow outlook towards world. Maybe try changing that.
@TheIanPanda Are you not sane enough to know in what context the comment was made? And yeah if your moral biases consider eating innocent animals as moral then Jains have achieved higher moral grounds.
When thiest say: something cannot come from nothing and target athist Meanwhile when athist: say by that logic who created god Theiest: 😡 that is illegal play
Can you make a video on why thiest calls athiest dumb and are so confident about it because an athiest according to them haven't read THEIR holly book...i know the answer is simple..but why do they think that...🤔is it becoz they aren't smart enough or is it becoz u can only understand the trap of religion when u get out of it... Or maybe just reply me what exactly they think
Faith is essentially a result of early and incessant conditioning. I know smart people who speak like clueless children when it's about religion. They can't help it. I am an atheist only because my folks never imposed religion on me.
@@TheIanPanda🤔hmmm...so they've been taught like this from the beginning...like for example I've been also taught about religious stuff like everyone else...but when I became an agnostic...I felt like I escaped the trap...but actually no...I still say sorry to god when I mistakenly put my foot on something like a book...I'm not able to recover from that yet even after knowing it's all bullcrap...🤔so maybe that's how it works for religious folks...even after accepting the truth it'll be super hard for them to actually accept the truth...
@TheDuaneGuy - So about the book thing - I think it is a good thing to be respectful of books, not from a religious point of view but more as a respect for knowledge. Similarly, touching feet of elders, etc - these things are traditional more than religious. I see no problem in practicing any tradition if you like it. Being atheist means rejecting dogma and irrational things, but it doesn't have to be an all out war against everything related to religion. Moderation is a good thing - that's my opinion.
@@TheIanPandabrother I can literally prove God's existence. Scientifically, logically, even with idol worship reason behind temples, how idols useful scientifically... But I don't want to share that with everyone. I will make petrol prices in India 50 below with it.
Why does atheist want to be moral or ethically perfect? Isn't it is foolishness cause if there are no future repercussions or don't believe in any form of after life why does you want to be morally perfect,rather you put yourself ahead on everything and only think about your own benefits and well being which is even parllel with our current evolutionary understanding( the survival for the fittest ) So i found this argument completely foolish that atheist can be ethical. If you want than you are fool An unethical man gonna earn better either in earning and rather better enjoy there utilitarian happiness than the ethical man
There are plenty of future repercussions but it doesn't require an after life. Police pakdegi, aunty ke husband bhi pakad lenge ... Uske baad dedanadan dedanadan
☝️Muslim becomes Atheist/Polytheist while he commits Crime Prophet (ﷺ) said, "When an adulterer commits illegal sexual intercourse, then he is not a believer at the time, he is doing it, and when a drinker of an alcoholic liquor drinks it, then he is not a believer at the time of drinking it, and when a thief steals, then he is not a believer at the time of stealing, and when a robber robs, and the people look at him, then he is not a believer at the time of doing robbery Sahih al-Bukhari 2475
Kahin aur jaake ye sab gyaan pel, bhai. Your book also says a lot of stupid stuff which you folks follow blindly. So don't lecture people who see through all this.
@TheIanPanda Famous Atheist Scientist says u can have Sex with ur Blood Sister just use Condom, after all we r just Bones n Flesh. Atheism is Ignorance nothing else. Atheist pretend to be good but there is no objective truth as per Atheism, so Atheist Brainwash fellow humans to Ignorance
@@moushumikhatun3020 Sex with Right Hand Possess means War Captive those who come to fight is allowed without proper marriage where Mehar is given. Sex Slave is Kafir's Concept as they legalise Prostitution completely ignoring they r also family member of someone
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points: Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion. Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems. Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first. While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms. --- 2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence: Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians): The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice. Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions. Ancient Egypt: Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it. Indus Valley Civilization: While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices. China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties): Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained. In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong. --- 3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise Secular Frameworks: Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority. Evolutionary Psychology: Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations. Rejection of Divine Authority: By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority. --- 4. Why This Argument is Flawed Confusing Instincts with Morality: Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion. Historical Evidence: The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record. Broad Definition of Religion: Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading. --- 5. The Religious Foundation of Morality Accountability to the Divine: Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will. Codification of Morality: Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations. Community and Cohesion: Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics. --- 6. Modern Implications Undermining Religion's Role: By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity. Selective Narratives: Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster. The Need for Contextual Understanding: Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values. --- Conclusion The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points: Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion. Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems. Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first. While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms. --- 2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence: Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians): The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice. Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions. Ancient Egypt: Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it. Indus Valley Civilization: While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices. China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties): Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained. In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong. --- 3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise Secular Frameworks: Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority. Evolutionary Psychology: Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations. Rejection of Divine Authority: By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority. --- 4. Why This Argument is Flawed Confusing Instincts with Morality: Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion. Historical Evidence: The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record. Broad Definition of Religion: Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading. --- 5. The Religious Foundation of Morality Accountability to the Divine: Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will. Codification of Morality: Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations. Community and Cohesion: Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics. --- 6. Modern Implications Undermining Religion's Role: By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity. Selective Narratives: Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster. The Need for Contextual Understanding: Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values. --- Conclusion The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points: Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion. Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems. Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first. While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms. --- 2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence: Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians): The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice. Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions. Ancient Egypt: Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it. Indus Valley Civilization: While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices. China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties): Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained. In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong. --- 3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise Secular Frameworks: Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority. Evolutionary Psychology: Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations. Rejection of Divine Authority: By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority. --- 4. Why This Argument is Flawed Confusing Instincts with Morality: Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion. Historical Evidence: The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record. Broad Definition of Religion: Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading. --- 5. The Religious Foundation of Morality Accountability to the Divine: Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will. Codification of Morality: Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations. Community and Cohesion: Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics. --- 6. Modern Implications Undermining Religion's Role: By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity. Selective Narratives: Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster. The Need for Contextual Understanding: Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values. --- Conclusion The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points: Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion. Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems. Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first. While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms. --- 2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence: Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians): The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice. Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions. Ancient Egypt: Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it. Indus Valley Civilization: While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices. China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties): Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained. In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong. --- 3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise Secular Frameworks: Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority. Evolutionary Psychology: Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations. Rejection of Divine Authority: By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority. --- 4. Why This Argument is Flawed Confusing Instincts with Morality: Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion. Historical Evidence: The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record. Broad Definition of Religion: Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading. --- 5. The Religious Foundation of Morality Accountability to the Divine: Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will. Codification of Morality: Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations. Community and Cohesion: Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics. --- 6. Modern Implications Undermining Religion's Role: By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity. Selective Narratives: Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster. The Need for Contextual Understanding: Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values. --- Conclusion The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points: Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion. Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems. Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first. While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms. --- 2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence: Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians): The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice. Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions. Ancient Egypt: Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it. Indus Valley Civilization: While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices. China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties): Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained. In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong. --- 3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise Secular Frameworks: Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority. Evolutionary Psychology: Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations. Rejection of Divine Authority: By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority. --- 4. Why This Argument is Flawed Confusing Instincts with Morality: Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion. Historical Evidence: The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record. Broad Definition of Religion: Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading. --- 5. The Religious Foundation of Morality Accountability to the Divine: Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will. Codification of Morality: Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations. Community and Cohesion: Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics. --- 6. Modern Implications Undermining Religion's Role: By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity. Selective Narratives: Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster. The Need for Contextual Understanding: Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values. --- Conclusion The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points: Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion. Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems. Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first. While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms. --- 2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence: Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians): The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice. Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions. Ancient Egypt: Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it. Indus Valley Civilization: While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices. China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties): Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained. In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong. --- 3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise Secular Frameworks: Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority. Evolutionary Psychology: Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations. Rejection of Divine Authority: By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority. --- 4. Why This Argument is Flawed Confusing Instincts with Morality: Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion. Historical Evidence: The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record. Broad Definition of Religion: Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading. --- 5. The Religious Foundation of Morality Accountability to the Divine: Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will. Codification of Morality: Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations. Community and Cohesion: Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics. --- 6. Modern Implications Undermining Religion's Role: By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity. Selective Narratives: Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster. The Need for Contextual Understanding: Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values. --- Conclusion The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
This is what happens when you don't watch a video, for any purpose but to negate it. The "ancient civilizations" you mentioned - none of them have historical records beyond the last 6000 years. Humanity has been around for way longer. Wherever you copy pasted these paragraphs from - it has no real merit because the so-called evidence is nothing but citation to the civilizations that are less than 6000 years old. Just because you want to believe that morality stems from religion, doesn't make it so. Especially since people who don't follow religions also have conscience and tend to do the right thing.
@@mithilbhoras5951 it is funny how you believe that morality is totally associated with religion and forget that budha was an athiest and so was bhagat singh if morality came from religion then how RAM RAHIM A HINDU IS CRIMINAL AND BHAGAT SINGH AN ATHIEST IS THE LEGEND FOR OUR INDIAN SOCIETY
There's a reason why there's no calendar older than 12000 years. The best you got is the cosmic calendar. But the catch is, it doesn't give a shit about your religion so you wouldn't accept it. You only go to science when scientists discover something and it's vaguely similar to something in your religious books. Saying "our religion was ahead of science" "Was" kya hota hai, himmat hai toh aaj kar na miracle jaadu tona. Camera aa gaye aur saara jaadu tona gayab ho gaya dharti se.
Religious people making this claim should remember that they’re Atheist in eyes of other religions.
☝️Muslim becomes Atheist/Polytheist while he commits Crime
Prophet (ﷺ) said, "When an adulterer commits illegal sexual intercourse, then he is not a believer at the time, he is doing it, and when a drinker of an alcoholic liquor drinks it, then he is not a believer at the time of drinking it, and when a thief steals, then he is not a believer at the time of stealing, and when a robber robs, and the people look at him, then he is not a believer at the time of doing robbery
Sahih al-Bukhari 2475
@@religionsach
Okay...? That doesn't verify it as truth-nor does it address the comment above.
There is a difference between being atheists and non believers of their gods !!
Very good, succinct articulation of complex ideas, well done! Thanks for the book suggestion!
I found Yuval Noah Hariri's Sapiens a great read to understand the evolution of humans from pre-historic to modern society.
Thank you for the kind words.
my rule is simple we live in a human society we should be kind to each other take care of nature and animals and do everything within our ability to make the world better I do not believe in supernatural powers or superstitions I focus on reason and compassion to guide my actions
I took massage from my school teacher
Your video was really informative
As atheists we can have a neutral and unbiased perspective of every religion. I find it very funny when religious people from one religion condemn others while justifying their own...
Truer words haven't been said.
It's not about whether it comes from religion or religion was needed to implement it.
But what makes a man do good things and why should he do it?
Why should I believe in moral and ethics?
Why should anyone not kill others or steal from others?
If today there are no legal laws or if they believe they can get away with it they will do bad things?
There needs to be an ultimate justice and fairness, not everyone has life as good as us?
Religion explains it and give reason for doing good.
I don't believe atheist are immoral but I do want to ask where do they get their morals from?
What do they want in return for doing good and if other is an atheist also how do they make him do good in return?
It is irrelevant whether religion predates morality or otherwise. What matters is whether it is of significance in today's world?
Being decent and expecting something in return is such a religion-based argument. Are you saying everyone is a criminal by default? Religion hasn't stopped any criminals ever. And the lack of religion hasn't turned any decent man into a criminal. Ethics is (as I pointed out) based on our relationship with the society around us. There's a real cause and effect in place and stealing, killing have real world consequences. Just because you "feel" like there needs to be a higher power to judge you, doesn't mean there is.
@@TheIanPanda so how can you make someone stop doing bad if he believes he can get away with the consequences?
In order to punish for a crime is needs to happen for the first time, how can you stop it for the very first time?
then there are really ambiguous things like polygamy, adultery, money laundering apart from its legal aspects.
Do you believe that there is now no need for religion now that there is law in place?
@amirsohil5644 - Has the existence of religion stopped any of the things you just named? All I am saying is - that religions think they somehow make people good - and that's bull. People do what they want to - religions are made to manipulate people. So people use it to enforce their will wherever possible.
@@TheIanPanda my question wasn't this.
Whether religion manipulates or not can be subjective. A knife, though useful, can be used to murder.
And atheist shouldn't have a problem with manipulation 'cause for them there is nothing to be gained by not doing it.
I am asking you why should you be good and why should I be good?
Or for you it doesn't matter and just want to prove that religion is just vanity?
with out morals prescribed by the religion it will be your morals or mine.
What will be considered right and wrong then, and who gets to decide?
Sahi bhai ❤
Next video: Are Theists mostly immoral💀.
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion
Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points:
Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion.
Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems.
Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first.
While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms.
---
2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality
The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence:
Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians):
The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice.
Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions.
Ancient Egypt:
Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it.
Indus Valley Civilization:
While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices.
China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties):
Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained.
In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong.
---
3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise
Secular Frameworks:
Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority.
Evolutionary Psychology:
Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations.
Rejection of Divine Authority:
By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority.
---
4. Why This Argument is Flawed
Confusing Instincts with Morality:
Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion.
Historical Evidence:
The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record.
Broad Definition of Religion:
Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading.
---
5. The Religious Foundation of Morality
Accountability to the Divine:
Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will.
Codification of Morality:
Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations.
Community and Cohesion:
Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics.
---
6. Modern Implications
Undermining Religion's Role:
By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity.
Selective Narratives:
Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster.
The Need for Contextual Understanding:
Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values.
---
Conclusion
The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
A truly perfect God wouldn't even think of creating anything, let alone a universe where beings suffer. If god was perfect, everything was already perfect.
That's quite a statement. But here's my take on this. If God did make a universe that was perfect where there was no disease, no immorality etc. Humans simply wouldn't have advanced as they have today. If we had no pain we would never understand what pain is. If someone was never sick we would have never understood what an illness is.
If God gave everything to them without question humans will take that God for granted and very soon will think less of God and eventually go on a path of immorality because of the belief God would say nothing to them. So it would have been inevitable either way.
Humans can be the kindest but at the same time the most despicable creatures of this world.
That is in your zombie mind to think "A truly perfect God" where is it said ??? please provide evidence or you are making your own stuff out of thin air ??
@@radicaldrake7064why God have created us? What's his plan?
@@radicaldrake7064 so what you are saying is that A PERFECT GOD made IMPERFECT HUMANS?? if humans became lazy then y didnt god just make them HARDWORKING? why did he choose to make some humans criminals and some victims so that criminals can abuse victims and he would enjoy that?
@@shadow11764 dude God ain't perfect at least in Sanatan. God being perfect is mostly abrahamic religions. Good and Evil are literally parts of the all mighty Parabrahman that is the Supreme Consciousness. Wherever perfection is Imperfection will be there. That is not to be ignored. See stop taking Sanatan in literal terms and try to delve more philosophically then you'll probably understand.
And if your talking about imperfect. Humans are not made imperfect. They have the potential to be imperfect. Now one might say what about disabled people why are they born like that? Perfection isn't just physical, it's spiritual and it's mental. A disabled man may look imperfect but he feels perfect in a life where he has good people and happiness. Vice Versa he feels imperfect when he is surrounded by Negativity and abuse for his condition. But the thing is he feels imperfect not because he is actually like that it's because the people around him make him feel like that.
Then why do people act like assholes? Why couldn't God create perfect people that he will like and will worship him? Because if God does love us he won't force us to worship him. That's the reason we have freewill. As Humans we are free to make our own choices as long as it doesn't hurt others.
“Suffering” and “pleasure, “good” and “evil” are relative judgemental concepts based on a conditioned personal perspective. From an absolute objective point of view there is neither good nor evil - there is simply BEING. Everything in the world is a gray area.
religion is man made
Nature and Humanity is supreme
U r important 🙌🙌🙌
religious people are moral mostly to impress their god in their head....
Majhab hi h sikhata apas mein vair rakhna. E.g. christians: those who don't believe in god are son of Satan
Islam: those who don't believe in Allah are kaafir.
Hindu: those who don't believe in ishwar are mallech.
Meanwhile
Christian: "Oh, so you accept Jesus is your lord and savior, but you are black skinned so you should have your separate Church from us White Skinned ones."
Muslim: "So you are a Muslim as well, good to know, but you are not an Arab , so you are inferior."
Hindu: " So you too are a Raam bhakt, good, but you are a Sudra, so you should not enter the temple of Raam or offer prayers or read holy texts, just give your money to us, we will do all that behalf of you so you can get punya and don't get birth as a Sudra in next life..."
If you are reading this comment, means TH-cam haven't deleted it.
Lol 😂 neither a arab is greater than non arab or neither white is greater than black all are equal
- last sermon from ghadir e khum by prophet Muhammad PBUH
Uncivilized hi hona hai na, apna imaginary dost is the winner 🏆 ... Okay, aukat mein rehne ka bhidu. Apna bhai number 1
hey make videos on mimansa vedanta navya vasiskeka
It means There's nothing good or bad just thinking make it so...hence proved Hitler wasn't guilty of killing millions of people...now don't be hypocrite Pendu bhai 😂😂..okay 👍??
This is what happens when you're so concerned with trolling someone that you fail to watch the video itself. Morality stems from the rules of society, where murder has always been considered wrong. So I am not sure what you're rambling about!
Why it is immoral for an atheist to commit consensual non reproductive incest? Some atheist like Armin Navabi believe it is not immoral what is your view on that
I don't know who this Armin Navabi is, or what his rationale is. But I feel like it's less about morality and more about social acceptance. Personally, I am a single child - so I don't really know how one feels for a sister/brother - but having been raised with contemporary social conditioning, I can tell you that the idea feels icky. But then, we have seen that religions and culture have a big role to play in how we view these things - cousin marriages are prevalent in Hindus in various parts of the country. Yeah, the same thing that people demonize Muslims for. Who knows - maybe social stance on it might change over centuries. But the genetic issues with siblings procreating form a good argument against the practice. These are my views but I believe in letting people decide things for themselves.
@@TheIanPandacousin marriage is actually more common in South India. Having been raised in Kerala as a Mallu most of my life I have met a lot of mallus who were cousins and married.
Bhai jo sab tum is video me samjha rahe ho itni complex or logical cheeze agar believers ko samajh aa jaya karti toh shayad vo log religious nahi hote 😭😆
Great job, panda bhai
No, Atheists are not immoral. Just morally materialistic.
Please make a debunk on Dukkar Zakir Nalayak
That has been done by so many. I am focusing more on concept level videos . Debunking such idiots is not even necessary. I am instead thinking of doing a livestream where I do a critical reading of the Quran. And other religious books too.
@@TheIanPanda do on critical thinking and Scientific Method and logical reasoning. Many lack in it. So called educated people like directors of IITs and iitains spread pseudo science and misinformation.
@@TheIanPanda one time in class my physics teacher said many people are not educated in India and then started talking about how phone emits radiation and it causes
Heart attack 😂
Most theists do things in fear,not from their heart (obviously there might be some who do from their heart but i am speaking most),Some does to show off like in my church many did things which was against but they simply say "forgive me jesus" which made feel bad.The same goes to many religious people who may do more pojas,namas,prayer,etc...but who do this also turn out be a criminal(not all but some) ,as a person i have a code of ethics and ideology which is enogh
There are good and bad people everywhere, irrespective of their religious affiliations, or lack thereof. That's why I have a hard time believing that religions can affect people's behaviours significantly. In fact, the religious dogma and biases have a clear negative effect on many people, as you pointed out.
@TheIanPanda yeah i agree with you
@@TheIanPandaYou certainly haven't met a lot of people I believe.
The Jain community is hardcore vegitarian and their beliefs have changed them for good. Maybe not the modern day but the majority are still vegetarian.
You sir have a very narrow outlook towards world. Maybe try changing that.
@KejriwalBhakt - So according to you, just not eating meat makes Jain's good people? Okay, whatever floats your boat.
@TheIanPanda Are you not sane enough to know in what context the comment was made?
And yeah if your moral biases consider eating innocent animals as moral then Jains have achieved higher moral grounds.
When thiest say: something cannot come from nothing and target athist
Meanwhile when athist: say by that logic who created god
Theiest: 😡 that is illegal play
Yeah there is always "logic" which atheist don't understand - "logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence"
Comment section r so funny 🤣
wow...
Can you make a video on why thiest calls athiest dumb and are so confident about it because an athiest according to them haven't read THEIR holly book...i know the answer is simple..but why do they think that...🤔is it becoz they aren't smart enough or is it becoz u can only understand the trap of religion when u get out of it...
Or maybe just reply me what exactly they think
Faith is essentially a result of early and incessant conditioning. I know smart people who speak like clueless children when it's about religion. They can't help it. I am an atheist only because my folks never imposed religion on me.
@@TheIanPanda🤔hmmm...so they've been taught like this from the beginning...like for example I've been also taught about religious stuff like everyone else...but when I became an agnostic...I felt like I escaped the trap...but actually no...I still say sorry to god when I mistakenly put my foot on something like a book...I'm not able to recover from that yet even after knowing it's all bullcrap...🤔so maybe that's how it works for religious folks...even after accepting the truth it'll be super hard for them to actually accept the truth...
@TheDuaneGuy - So about the book thing - I think it is a good thing to be respectful of books, not from a religious point of view but more as a respect for knowledge. Similarly, touching feet of elders, etc - these things are traditional more than religious. I see no problem in practicing any tradition if you like it. Being atheist means rejecting dogma and irrational things, but it doesn't have to be an all out war against everything related to religion. Moderation is a good thing - that's my opinion.
@@TheIanPanda yea exactly i understand...
I wrote a large paragraph 😭but becoz of the yt glitch it vanished
@@TheIanPandabrother I can literally prove God's existence. Scientifically, logically, even with idol worship reason behind temples, how idols useful scientifically... But I don't want to share that with everyone. I will make petrol prices in India 50 below with it.
Kabi kabi lagta hai ki chalo wo kum se kum apne dimag ka istmaal to karte hain.
Atheist ⚛️ means nastik means lack of believe in God also all Buddhist are nastik as they don't believe in any God so isn't that same same
Why does atheist want to be moral or ethically perfect? Isn't it is foolishness cause if there are no future repercussions or don't believe in any form of after life why does you want to be morally perfect,rather you put yourself ahead on everything and only think about your own benefits and well being which is even parllel with our current evolutionary understanding( the survival for the fittest )
So i found this argument completely foolish that atheist can be ethical. If you want than you are fool
An unethical man gonna earn better either in earning and rather better enjoy there utilitarian happiness than the ethical man
There's a question at the end. I guess it applies to people who have mentality like yours.
Does your religion teach you to bully any atheist who is moral or wants to be moral?😂
There are plenty of future repercussions but it doesn't require an after life. Police pakdegi, aunty ke husband bhi pakad lenge ... Uske baad dedanadan dedanadan
Do you wish for them to be Evil?
Well religion itself is a manmade thing,So why not question it? Religion can make people believe in man with elephant head.majak chl rha hai kya?
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
☝️Muslim becomes Atheist/Polytheist while he commits Crime
Prophet (ﷺ) said, "When an adulterer commits illegal sexual intercourse, then he is not a believer at the time, he is doing it, and when a drinker of an alcoholic liquor drinks it, then he is not a believer at the time of drinking it, and when a thief steals, then he is not a believer at the time of stealing, and when a robber robs, and the people look at him, then he is not a believer at the time of doing robbery
Sahih al-Bukhari 2475
Kahin aur jaake ye sab gyaan pel, bhai. Your book also says a lot of stupid stuff which you folks follow blindly. So don't lecture people who see through all this.
aur jab tere phophet ne 9 saal ko pela tab bohot moral rha hoga - Sahih al-Bukhari 5134
Illegal intercourse means sex with slaves which is halal in Quran?
@TheIanPanda Famous Atheist Scientist says u can have Sex with ur Blood Sister just use Condom, after all we r just Bones n Flesh. Atheism is Ignorance nothing else. Atheist pretend to be good but there is no objective truth as per Atheism, so Atheist Brainwash fellow humans to Ignorance
@@moushumikhatun3020 Sex with Right Hand Possess means War Captive those who come to fight is allowed without proper marriage where Mehar is given. Sex Slave is Kafir's Concept as they legalise Prostitution completely ignoring they r also family member of someone
☝️Atheism is Ignorance nothing else
Exactly Sir "God is the greatest lie invented by man, ~OSHO
STFU osho fan.. sounds very hypocritical nowdays
Yeah but OSHO died of Heart Failure by ~GOD 😉😉
@@AlienBabUfo Iska Matlab OSHO Nam ka Insaan Tha OSHO Kalpanik Nahi Hai God allha Bhagwan Ki Taraha 😉😉
@@fanstypielive Yeah everything is kalpanik - just cope with your misery 😆😆
Plz debunked @harry sahota
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion
Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points:
Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion.
Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems.
Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first.
While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms.
---
2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality
The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence:
Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians):
The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice.
Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions.
Ancient Egypt:
Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it.
Indus Valley Civilization:
While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices.
China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties):
Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained.
In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong.
---
3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise
Secular Frameworks:
Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority.
Evolutionary Psychology:
Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations.
Rejection of Divine Authority:
By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority.
---
4. Why This Argument is Flawed
Confusing Instincts with Morality:
Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion.
Historical Evidence:
The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record.
Broad Definition of Religion:
Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading.
---
5. The Religious Foundation of Morality
Accountability to the Divine:
Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will.
Codification of Morality:
Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations.
Community and Cohesion:
Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics.
---
6. Modern Implications
Undermining Religion's Role:
By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity.
Selective Narratives:
Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster.
The Need for Contextual Understanding:
Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values.
---
Conclusion
The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
How much did they paid you to comment same thing too many times in this video?😂😂
It cell reporting on time
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion
Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points:
Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion.
Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems.
Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first.
While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms.
---
2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality
The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence:
Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians):
The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice.
Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions.
Ancient Egypt:
Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it.
Indus Valley Civilization:
While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices.
China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties):
Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained.
In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong.
---
3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise
Secular Frameworks:
Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority.
Evolutionary Psychology:
Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations.
Rejection of Divine Authority:
By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority.
---
4. Why This Argument is Flawed
Confusing Instincts with Morality:
Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion.
Historical Evidence:
The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record.
Broad Definition of Religion:
Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading.
---
5. The Religious Foundation of Morality
Accountability to the Divine:
Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will.
Codification of Morality:
Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations.
Community and Cohesion:
Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics.
---
6. Modern Implications
Undermining Religion's Role:
By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity.
Selective Narratives:
Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster.
The Need for Contextual Understanding:
Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values.
---
Conclusion
The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion
Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points:
Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion.
Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems.
Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first.
While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms.
---
2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality
The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence:
Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians):
The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice.
Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions.
Ancient Egypt:
Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it.
Indus Valley Civilization:
While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices.
China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties):
Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained.
In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong.
---
3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise
Secular Frameworks:
Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority.
Evolutionary Psychology:
Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations.
Rejection of Divine Authority:
By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority.
---
4. Why This Argument is Flawed
Confusing Instincts with Morality:
Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion.
Historical Evidence:
The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record.
Broad Definition of Religion:
Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading.
---
5. The Religious Foundation of Morality
Accountability to the Divine:
Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will.
Codification of Morality:
Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations.
Community and Cohesion:
Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics.
---
6. Modern Implications
Undermining Religion's Role:
By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity.
Selective Narratives:
Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster.
The Need for Contextual Understanding:
Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values.
---
Conclusion
The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion
Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points:
Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion.
Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems.
Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first.
While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms.
---
2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality
The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence:
Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians):
The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice.
Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions.
Ancient Egypt:
Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it.
Indus Valley Civilization:
While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices.
China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties):
Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained.
In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong.
---
3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise
Secular Frameworks:
Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority.
Evolutionary Psychology:
Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations.
Rejection of Divine Authority:
By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority.
---
4. Why This Argument is Flawed
Confusing Instincts with Morality:
Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion.
Historical Evidence:
The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record.
Broad Definition of Religion:
Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading.
---
5. The Religious Foundation of Morality
Accountability to the Divine:
Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will.
Codification of Morality:
Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations.
Community and Cohesion:
Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics.
---
6. Modern Implications
Undermining Religion's Role:
By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity.
Selective Narratives:
Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster.
The Need for Contextual Understanding:
Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values.
---
Conclusion
The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
Did you copypasted entire comment from ChatGPT because I could see huge space between paragraph or did you copypasted from whatsapp university🤔
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion
Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points:
Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion.
Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems.
Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first.
While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms.
---
2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality
The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence:
Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians):
The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice.
Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions.
Ancient Egypt:
Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it.
Indus Valley Civilization:
While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices.
China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties):
Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained.
In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong.
---
3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise
Secular Frameworks:
Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority.
Evolutionary Psychology:
Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations.
Rejection of Divine Authority:
By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority.
---
4. Why This Argument is Flawed
Confusing Instincts with Morality:
Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion.
Historical Evidence:
The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record.
Broad Definition of Religion:
Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading.
---
5. The Religious Foundation of Morality
Accountability to the Divine:
Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will.
Codification of Morality:
Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations.
Community and Cohesion:
Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics.
---
6. Modern Implications
Undermining Religion's Role:
By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity.
Selective Narratives:
Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster.
The Need for Contextual Understanding:
Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values.
---
Conclusion
The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
So how many times did you made same comment 😂😂
1. The Misconception: Morality Predates Religion
Many modern liberals claim that morality existed before religion, often to assert that morality is a secular phenomenon independent of divine authority. Their argument generally relies on these points:
Human morality is rooted in evolutionary processes, such as empathy, cooperation, and altruism, which predate organized religion.
Early hunter-gatherer societies may have had moral norms without formal religious systems.
Religion, especially in its organized form, is seen as a later development, implying that morality came first.
While there are evolutionary and anthropological arguments for this claim, it overlooks the historical record, which consistently shows that religion was the primary framework through which ancient societies articulated and enforced moral norms.
---
2. Ancient Civilizations and Religious Morality
The earliest known civilizations-such as Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley, and ancient China-had moral codes that were inseparable from their religious beliefs. Let’s consider the evidence:
Mesopotamia (Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians):
The Code of Hammurabi (c. 1750 BCE), one of the oldest legal and moral codes, explicitly invokes divine authority. Hammurabi claimed that the god Marduk appointed him to establish justice.
Morality in Mesopotamian society was directly tied to pleasing the gods, who were believed to reward or punish humans based on their actions.
Ancient Egypt:
Egyptian morality revolved around Ma'at, the concept of cosmic order and justice, upheld by the gods. Morality was viewed as adherence to Ma'at, with religious rituals and practices reinforcing it.
Indus Valley Civilization:
While less is known due to the undeciphered script, religious symbols like the proto-Shiva seals suggest that moral and social norms were linked to religious practices.
China (Shang and Zhou Dynasties):
Early Chinese morality was tied to ancestor worship and the concept of the Mandate of Heaven, which justified rulers' moral authority as divinely ordained.
In all these examples, religion was the foundation for morality, not a separate or secondary development. Even if these religions were not "organized" in the modern sense, they were central to how societies understood right and wrong.
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3. Why Modern Liberals Argue Otherwise
Secular Frameworks:
Modern liberalism often seeks to separate morality from religion to justify secular governance and pluralism. By asserting that morality predates religion, liberals aim to show that ethical behavior doesn’t require divine authority.
Evolutionary Psychology:
Liberals often cite evolutionary theories, arguing that early humans developed moral instincts-such as fairness, cooperation, and empathy-long before organized religion emerged. While there’s some evidence for these instincts, they don’t constitute a moral system comparable to those seen in historical civilizations.
Rejection of Divine Authority:
By claiming that morality existed independently of religion, liberals challenge the idea that divine revelation is necessary for ethical guidance. This aligns with the broader liberal emphasis on individual autonomy over traditional or divine authority.
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4. Why This Argument is Flawed
Confusing Instincts with Morality:
Evolutionary behaviors like cooperation and altruism are biological instincts, not structured moral systems. True morality involves conscious reflection, social norms, and a sense of accountability-all of which are historically tied to religion.
Historical Evidence:
The oldest civilizations explicitly derived their moral codes from religious beliefs. Claiming that morality predates religion requires ignoring this overwhelming historical record.
Broad Definition of Religion:
Even in societies without organized religion, spiritual beliefs and practices were central to their moral framework. To say that morality predates religion because early religions were less formalized is misleading.
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5. The Religious Foundation of Morality
Accountability to the Divine:
Religion introduced the concept of accountability to a higher power, which elevated morality beyond mere survival instincts. In Mesopotamia, for instance, individuals were judged not just by human laws but by the gods' will.
Codification of Morality:
Religion formalized morality into codes and rituals, providing a consistent framework for societies. This ensured that moral norms were respected and passed down across generations.
Community and Cohesion:
Religion unified people under shared moral principles, creating cohesive societies. For example, the moral laws in the Bible, Quran, and Hindu scriptures were as much about societal harmony as individual ethics.
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6. Modern Implications
Undermining Religion's Role:
By claiming that morality predates religion, modern liberalism risks erasing the historical role religion played in shaping ethical systems. This oversimplification can alienate religious communities and dismiss their contributions to humanity.
Selective Narratives:
Liberals often criticize religious morality (e.g., exclusivism, perceived oppression) while ignoring the moral chaos that arises in entirely secular frameworks. The atrocities of purely secular ideologies like communism or extreme nationalism show that morality divorced from higher principles can lead to disaster.
The Need for Contextual Understanding:
Instead of dismissing religion as outdated, a balanced approach would acknowledge its historical importance while exploring how it can coexist with modern values.
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Conclusion
The claim that morality predates religion oversimplifies human history and ignores the overwhelming evidence from ancient civilizations. While biological instincts may have laid the groundwork for moral behavior, religion provided the framework for structured, reflective morality. Modern liberals often promote this narrative to justify secular ethics, but they risk misrepresenting the profound and enduring connection between morality and religion throughout human history.
This is what happens when you don't watch a video, for any purpose but to negate it. The "ancient civilizations" you mentioned - none of them have historical records beyond the last 6000 years. Humanity has been around for way longer. Wherever you copy pasted these paragraphs from - it has no real merit because the so-called evidence is nothing but citation to the civilizations that are less than 6000 years old. Just because you want to believe that morality stems from religion, doesn't make it so. Especially since people who don't follow religions also have conscience and tend to do the right thing.
@@TheIanPanda No use, pretty sure they won't read your reply if they didn't bother to watch your video 😂
@@mithilbhoras5951 it is funny how you believe that morality is totally associated with religion and forget that budha was an athiest and so was bhagat singh if morality came from religion then how RAM RAHIM A HINDU IS CRIMINAL AND BHAGAT SINGH AN ATHIEST IS THE LEGEND FOR OUR INDIAN SOCIETY
No monkeys can't read or write so there's no record. The same goes for all other social animals.
There's a reason why there's no calendar older than 12000 years. The best you got is the cosmic calendar. But the catch is, it doesn't give a shit about your religion so you wouldn't accept it. You only go to science when scientists discover something and it's vaguely similar to something in your religious books. Saying "our religion was ahead of science"
"Was" kya hota hai, himmat hai toh aaj kar na miracle jaadu tona. Camera aa gaye aur saara jaadu tona gayab ho gaya dharti se.