@alaskianbullworm Oh believe me, it's something I'm working on as I speak! SEPTA's potential is sky high and their planners know it, so it will be awesome to go over it!
One small point I wish to mention is that Pennsylvania residents who are 65 years of age or older can apply for and receive a senior pass card that allows them to travel on all SEPTA routes at no cost, with the exception that it only works on the portions of routes that are within the state of Pennsylvania. So if you want to travel to Trenton NJ you can ride the regional rail to the last Pennsylvania station on the line which is Levittown at no cost, but from there to Trenton you will need to pay the fare for that final leg. Fortunately only a few stations on the Regional Rail system are outside of Pennsylvania, including Trenton, West Trenton and a small number of stops in Delaware along the Wilmington line. This is all paid for with proceeds from the Pennsylvania Lottery, if anybody may be wondering.
Better use of a state lottery than what we have in GA. My mother has worked with children from those schools, and she has… opinions, to say the least, about how they run things there.
I’ll be in Philly soon for a business conference, and I’m so glad I saw this vid in my recommended. Thanks for the info, and I’d be glad to see more of this sort of content 💯 Subscribed.
One of the coolest SEPTA Videos out there! And it's a deep field. Ever since I moved to Philly a few years ago I've been slack-jawed at just how nice it is to have an alternative to driving for all of the cool things in and around the city! Currently more of a weekly mainline rider to work in the city but looking forward to upcoming videos in the series about the metro lines, busses, and (my favorite) TROLLEYS!
I live in Philly and don't use the regional rail that often. But I do use the buses and subway in the city. I started using it this year when they allowed tap to pay with credit cards. Such a small feature that's long overdue.
Not sure if I call it a hot take, since we both agree on a lot of aspects of the network and the problems it has. There's bound to be some differences in how we see solutions to the problems the network faces, and in what order they should be tackled, likely because I think it'd be best to focus on the network that we currently have for the present, and improve the ridership experience through a lot of different ways (platform and station rebuilds, junction grade separations, crossing removal, and finding means of crew reform if at all possible), though I do like the overarching idea that he has with reviving rail in South Jersey (though, I have my own twist on it in my crayon ideas lol).
@cryorig_transit05 As do I. I know it's being actively looked into, though it would likely require adding some track north of Perryville and the full renovation of Newark and Elkton stations to be completed. Nothing set in stone timeline wise, but it is being pursued.
@@Toxic-hz8slMy preference would be Shore Line East and the MBTA meeting at Westerly, around where the CT/RI state line meets the shore. Additionally the MBTA should electrify the rest of its Providence/Stoughton Line.
Broad Street Station suffered two debilitating fires in the 20th Century. The ROW that connected the BSS to 30th Street was a massive, stone-walled, above-ground monstrosity whose removal was a desirable end. Liberty Place didn’t arrive until 1985, decades after its demolition.
I went to Jefferson station yesterday and oh my goodness it feels just like a European system. Feels weird for have silverliner IV’s and old Comet coaches going through it just doesn’t fit the vibe, and the lovely underground restaurants were amazing! Felt like such a nice place to walk around and hang out in.
My #1 Improvement for SEP-d'UHHhhh . . . The old "Cross County Metro" proposal, which was imagined with Interurban rolling stock, could also be done as "SEPTa"s Boonton Line", I. E., Push-Pull Diesel-hauled double-deckers serving all high-platform stations along the Cutoff, with Air Rights from NJT to bypass the Morrisville Facility, and gauntlet tracks at each station to allow NS continued usage of the line.
I did a day trip to Center City last week and used SEPTA for the first time from/to Newark, DE. (I also did a trip up/back to Norristown just to ride the NHSL line with those 90s rocketship trains.) The area does have great transit bones like you said but dang it just feels so neglected. I'm used to riding the DC metro so tapping in/out wasn't an issue but was confused by having to use their app to add a day pass... then tap my physical card. Thankfully I hear they're testing contactless payment for Regional Rail. That being said, if MARC and SEPTA connected it would have saved me an hour drive to Newark, DE just to take the train. (thankfully free parking there still). Thanks for the informative video!
Great video, very comprehensive. I really think SEPTA should be aiming for 10-15 minutes frequencies on every line, all-day, 7 days a week. That is what is needed for people to realize they don't need a car at all.
Great video! I always found it interesting to use the Regional Rail to travel between Trenton and Philly when the Amtrak tickets got too expensive. In the past, SEPTA and NJT would work together on their schedules and create direct interchanges between Trenton trains and NEC trains. I wish they can bring that back one day. What's weird is that Trenton TC does not have a Key Card reader despite being served by SEPTA, but I guess it doesn't matter as much since it is the last station of the line. New Jersey Transit still offers tickets between Trenton and Philly. Although the ticket itself may says "30th Street," you can use it at any CC stations. The Regional Rail also takes Amtrak tickets. You can use the QR code on an Amtrak ticket to take a Regional Rail train within the CC zone on the same day of your itinerary. This is really slick when I need transit access to Newark Airport from Philly. The only thing I need is an Amtrak ticket between 30th Street and EWR. I scan the QR code at Market East and take a Regional Rail train to 30th Street. From there, I transfer to the Amtrak train. At EWR, I can use the exact same ticket to board the AirTrain. This is definitely worth the $26 if you manage to book it early enough. Hope these help.
I remember when NJT and SEPTA coordinated, feels like it wasn't that long ago. I lived in Philly from 2012-2020 and from 2014 to 2017 had an in person job in NYC. If I made a large purchase in a pay period, I slummed it on RR to NJT to get to Penn Station instead of Amtrak. It used to cost like 7 bucks! And the NJT was cross platform at trenton. Took twice as long as Amtrak but was a tenth of the price!
I feel like coordination between NJT and SEPTA, in conjunction with express services, could revive the “Clocker” trains the PRR once had. With perhaps some minor upgrades you could perhaps even run them every hour on the hour like they used to, probably make it take only an hour also.
Great mention of the NJT ACL. It's too bad that it's single-tracked and infrequent, it beats taking the AC Expressway any day. There are some folks looking to increase awareness and improve service on that line, I'm working on speaking with them in the future.
Frequency on SEPTA Regional Rail is kept low by (a) chronic underfunding, combined with (b) too many stations lacking level boarding. Step-up boarding requires a second conductor. Which drives up the labor cost to run a train. SEPTA simply doesn't have the funds to pay Assistant Conductors for trains to run every 15 minutes throughout the day.
Hi! Can't confirm if this is their reasoning but I've noticed on the Bombardier equipment the lack of headrest in the inner most bench seat makes it much easier if you're carrying a shoulder bag or duffel as it's able to clear the seat back (assuming nobody's sitting there)
I mostly reside in Media. I live in an apartment complex that is within walking distance of the train station. It’s super convenient. I’m originally from the Reading area. There’s no passenger train travel except for a weekly excursion to Jim Thorpe. I really want SEPTA to open a line between Philadelphia and Reading. While we’re at it, NJ Transit needs to open a line between Newark and Allentown.
Hey! Fellow Media resident here! that's cool! And yeah, wholeheartedly agree that a service between Philly and Reading would be awesome. Thankfully, it seems like that will happen in the next few years, albeit it won't be SEPTA, it will be Amtrak. There's definitely a lot of reasons why that will be the case, and I want to go over that in future videos on the matter, but it's a good start. Having that as a connection to the Reading and Northern going up to Jim Thorpe would be awesome, and I'm excited for what that can do, even if I would've wanted it to be a more frequent, electrified SEPTA service rather than an Amtrak service with a few round trips a day, but it's a decent start.
I live in Bethlehem and I would love NJ Transit to extend through Lehigh Valley to Allentown and SEPTA to extend to Reading and connect to Allentown. Making Allentown a hub where you can get to New York and Philadelphia.
@jimmymcinerney1950 This, right here. I know that a service from NYC to Allentown run by Amtrak has been looked at for years, and it just missed the cut for Corridor ID, but if there is another chance of that, I'd love to see it happen. I have my own concept I'm creating as a thought experiment for a statewide rail system, and the Bethlehem/Allentown area would easily be one of the big hubs for the east and northeast of the state for such an idea.
Thank you for explaining this! A couple weeks ago I was trying to figure out the fare from the airport to Trenton. Spent 2 hours clicking around the SEPTA website, Reddit, etc. Nowhere was it spelled out whether I had to pay two fares (Airport to Center City, then CC to Trenton) or one fare. Maybe it's obvious to locals, but the SEPTA website literally did not say the answer anywhere, and I consider myself fairly good at reading lol. So anyway, thank you for answering this question albeit after my trip ended.
When yyou started talking about the rather expensive prices I was ready for something, but this price seems fair. My commute to Zürich costs about (with no passes or trickery) 27 Dollars per trip. Yikes!
@triton_152 Personally, I think SEPTA's fares are pretty reasonable for American regional rail, it's just that the system they use could be seen as confusing to the uninitiated. Like I say, it's a hell of a lot better than some I can name, like the three systems around New York, but I can safely say there aren't too many that get anywhere near Zurich levels, which yeah, that is ridiculous. I know the passes are pretty popular there, but even still, that's just crazy.
@SteveGettingAroundPhilly yea you're right, but luckily we never have to deal with the fare zones because the SBB app or ticket mashines do all the work, most people dont even know that there are zones. I myself have a Halbtax (half price card) and with EasyRide, I can push the fare down to 19 bucks for a round trip
Great video! Septa should just run more trains. They have EMUs, and I assume their crew are still on duty at the end of the line durring low peak hours. Regardless, it's still a lot better than a diesel hauled commuter train that runs 3 times each direction on weekdays (cough Metra cough)
SEPTA actually did plan to increase RR service using double decker cars. Unfortunately, they fell for the CRRC scam that screwed over many other services as well.
There is a fourth fully electrified regional/commuter rail line! Shore Line East in CT. They gave all the diesel equipment to the Hartford line and run M8s now.
15:50 The "NJ" zone fares are mainly because the State of New Jersey does not subsidize those two SEPTA lines. SEPTA is under the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, so they are by no means obligated to provide service to New Jersey. Funding for that service thus must come mainly from fares. Delaware does not have the same situation because the State of Delaware intentionally subsidizes service from Marcus Hook to Newark; therefore, the onus for funding does not need to come primarily from fares, giving all Delaware stations a Zone 4 designation.
The NJ fare zone is because New Jersey doesnt subsidize those routes- the Wilmington line doesnt have a special fare zone because Delaware/DDOT has a deal to subsidize that line
SEPTA has sooo much potential! Even when it gives me a headache 😂. Oh and as a resident of Coatesville we are so stoked to get AMTRAK line here. We got a bus line like 3 or 4 years ago which has helped so many people!
wilmington/newark has weird service paterns because past marcus hook service is subsidized by the state of delaware (I believe they also actually own some silverliners too) in partnership with septa. this is also why its almost completely dependent on the state of delaware wanting to extend the line to connect to marc. also, the reason west trenton exists is because septa originally ran trains as far as newark NJ when they still operated diesel services (part of legacy Reading service) and when these were all cut back to be electric only, west trenton became the terminus
I really hope septa reactivates it’s older lines that were discontinue, such as two Souderton, Telford and Bethlehem in Allentown, and up to Pottstown Reading. I know they are trying to reactivate the West Chester line, they just need funding from the state.
This reminds me. I was gonna take advantage of NJ Transit's Fare Holiday this year (2024) by riding the AC Line for the first time but then my eczema decided to breakout during that week sadly...
Those seats with no headrest are similar to others around the world. Generally the reason why one has no headrest is most people take window or aisle leaving middle seat free, it is off putting and therefore a lot of people will stand thereby a free seat then reduces train capacity. By doing that ie remove the headrest people will take the middle seat beside someone at the window leaving aisle free to be filled. Have seen it also where part of the actually seat is cut away making longer distance travel not as comfortable and also one such experiment where they made the seat a more unattractive colour.
As far as the aisle seat with no headrest, those seats aren't found on any of NJT's Comets anymore but they're still on Metro North's shoreliners and used to be on NJT's Comet IIIs and some Comet IIs (while others had orange flippable seats). Before all the Comet II's were refurbished to get the Comet IV's flippable blue seats (which are now mostly broken), I would seek out a car with the fixed brown seats because they were so much more comfortable than the orange flippable ones. I think the lack of a headrest was meant to serve two purposes: 1. it makes the aisle a little more open, at least when no one is sitting there, and 2. it encouraged people to move in and sit in the window and middle seats before occupying the aisle seats. Unlike any other NJ Transit trains with 2x3 seating people were pretty good at making full use of the fixed brown seats rather than only 2 or 1 people sitting there. You were also spared the absolute worst thing about traveling off-peak, which is two people flipping a seat and facing each other where six people could have sat.
Great to see this on the feed after coming back from a day trip to Doylestown! (On the Doylestown Line, natch). Also, I was today years old when I found out that SEPTA ran service all the way to Allentown (albeit for only 2 years)! I was actually looking for videos on the Bethlehem Line, but there doesn't seem to be any, so I'm really looking forward to the upcoming video you mentioned,
PATCO needs more lines in south jersey, basically a line north of and south of the Lindenwold line, just as outlined in ... the ... original PATCO plan.
17:30 there’s also a fare for those that do not go in the city for instance Doylestown to Jenkintown or Norristown to Ivy Ridge. This fair is approximately 325 with the key and four dollars cash.
The Center City Connection is a stroke of genius. Did it happen first, or did the Paris RER happen first? New York is in the process of doing it. LIRR is already at Grand Central and Metro-North is coming to Penn Station.
@pleappleappleap The RER came first, though it wasn't by much. The RER opened in 1977, and the Munich S-Bahn opened in 1972, so as these things go, Philly was a pioneer of the thru-running Regional Rail concept, and definitely so for North America. Obviously they didn't go as far as Paris or Munich, but it's cool to know that my city showed that we know what can make good transit great, but we can't fully get there yet.
The NJT ACL is interesting in the early 2010s there was a express service for it called the ACES but that got discontinued in 2012. the equipment was the ACES was interesting to say the last. NJT leased some P40DCS from Amtrak and then it was 4 special multilevel coaches with special ACES branding then there was interesting not a cab car but instead one of NJTS ALP44 locomotives on the rear so there was technically a electric on the ACL. thought that was be a cool fact to know.
I do have to say, though, I'm British and took a trip from Suburban to Haverford and back on the Paoli/Thorndale Line and I was impressed. But why is it so infrequent!
Pretty cool that you got to ride it, and even cooler to me that you enjoyed it! But yeah, it's nowhere near what it could be. Short answer to the question can largely be boiled down to SEPTA being chronically underfunded. In fact, it's considered one of the most underfunded transit agencies in the country when one considers the size of the city, and the modes of transport that the agency is responsible for. There's a lot of reasons for this, but the biggest one in my view is that there really is not a dedicated funding mechanism for the agency at the state level, which leads to inconsistent funding and squabbling over how much money the agency should get, and in a state like Pennsylvania where there isn't a consensus just yet at the state level regarding transit policy, it's why the status quo is what it is. It's incredibly frustrating, but this in turn leads to a lack of money going towards paying and training new crews to run more regional rail trains to bring the system up to its current potential. Being from Britain, I'm sure you're familiar with the DfT and their interaction with the passenger rail franchises in the UK. It's something like that, except much more in the hands of politicians than civil servants. There's thankfully a renewed push to get this resolved in the long term, and I hope it can come to pass, not just for Philadelphia, but for Pittsburgh, Allentown, Reading, Harrisburg and other cities in the state that want to have some peace of mind when it comes to their transit funding, and in Philly's case, to see their system reach anything near its true potential, which is sky high to me.
@ Yeah, I actually liked it a lot. Same can’t be said for your metro system 😬 Ah, I see, so quite similar to rural services out here. It’s really disappointing that that’s the attitude of American cities to regional rail. The economic benefit is so clear - look at somewhere like New York where they’ve invested in it, it’s hugely popular. Pennsylvania is missing out if they don’t!
i heard the northeast corridor (amtrak lines) are on their own separate power grid, because the line was electrified before most cities had their own grids. it hasn't ever been connected to the national grid, which is why it suffers frequent breakdowns and isn't able to get help from its service cities' grids. since i assume the regional lines were electrified around the same time, are they powered off the city's grid, or does SEPTA have to maintain their own electrical grid in order to keep them running?
All the veteran riders I know, including me, still use the "R" designations. It's easier to remember and speak. But too many infrastructure problems on the old Reading lines--especially single-tracked sections--made the run-through consistency too difficult to adhere to.
The last time I had to use the regional rails inter-zonally, the dates were based on zone crossings. Staying in the same zone is the base rate, while crossing between zones is a fixed rate per crossing. Did that change?
Minute eleven: the bike at the front of the bus should be paied for ? Gas such a bike space to be prebooked or does it depend on good luck to get the oportunity to take your bike with you ?
the atlantic city line should be exteneded to philly airport someday. may b even ny coonecting to the old b&o lin on the east bank of the delaware river.
you didn't mention the fact that the weekend service past malvern on the R5 is only 4 trains on Saturday 0 on Sunday and also they only get half service on weekdays being 2 hourly for most of the day minus peak! why septa why!
@Ratcher. Yeah, the old R5 is kind of a scheduling mess I've found. To me, it doesn't help that Amtrak and SEPTA don't to my knowledge coordinate timetables with each other (a common problem across the NEC network broadly), and I guess they want to concentrate their scheduling focus on the suburbs from Paoli on east, while treating Downingtown like its of little significance. Maybe the planned extension to Coatesville when the new station is completed will change that a bit, though with the awkward location of Fraser Yard where the Paoli-Thorndale line trains are stabled between Malvern and Exton, that problem will still persist afterwards. I guess we'll see on that front.
You should talk about the septa reimagining regional rail plan! There’s so much potential in that plan!
@alaskianbullworm Oh believe me, it's something I'm working on as I speak! SEPTA's potential is sky high and their planners know it, so it will be awesome to go over it!
One small point I wish to mention is that Pennsylvania residents who are 65 years of age or older can apply for and receive a senior pass card that allows them to travel on all SEPTA routes at no cost, with the exception that it only works on the portions of routes that are within the state of Pennsylvania. So if you want to travel to Trenton NJ you can ride the regional rail to the last Pennsylvania station on the line which is Levittown at no cost, but from there to Trenton you will need to pay the fare for that final leg. Fortunately only a few stations on the Regional Rail system are outside of Pennsylvania, including Trenton, West Trenton and a small number of stops in Delaware along the Wilmington line. This is all paid for with proceeds from the Pennsylvania Lottery, if anybody may be wondering.
Better use of a state lottery than what we have in GA. My mother has worked with children from those schools, and she has… opinions, to say the least, about how they run things there.
I’ll be in Philly soon for a business conference, and I’m so glad I saw this vid in my recommended. Thanks for the info, and I’d be glad to see more of this sort of content 💯 Subscribed.
One of the coolest SEPTA Videos out there! And it's a deep field. Ever since I moved to Philly a few years ago I've been slack-jawed at just how nice it is to have an alternative to driving for all of the cool things in and around the city! Currently more of a weekly mainline rider to work in the city but looking forward to upcoming videos in the series about the metro lines, busses, and (my favorite) TROLLEYS!
I love the trolleys. I live in Media, so the 101 trolley is how I get to my connection or to a lot of places.
Looking forward to your future vids. Philly's transit network is actually one of my favorites.
I live in Philly and don't use the regional rail that often. But I do use the buses and subway in the city. I started using it this year when they allowed tap to pay with credit cards. Such a small feature that's long overdue.
This is a good view on the Alan Fisher theories of Philly's rail system.....
Not sure if I call it a hot take, since we both agree on a lot of aspects of the network and the problems it has. There's bound to be some differences in how we see solutions to the problems the network faces, and in what order they should be tackled, likely because I think it'd be best to focus on the network that we currently have for the present, and improve the ridership experience through a lot of different ways (platform and station rebuilds, junction grade separations, crossing removal, and finding means of crew reform if at all possible), though I do like the overarching idea that he has with reviving rail in South Jersey (though, I have my own twist on it in my crayon ideas lol).
@@SteveGettingAroundPhilly I edited it
That said, I hope MARC will connect to SEPTA in Newark, DE in the future
@cryorig_transit05 As do I. I know it's being actively looked into, though it would likely require adding some track north of Perryville and the full renovation of Newark and Elkton stations to be completed. Nothing set in stone timeline wise, but it is being pursued.
That's definitely something! A well-connected regional rail system would benefit a lot
Yes please! and the new york commuter lines to connect all the way to mbta for a full commuter rail NEC lol
@@Toxic-hz8sl I definitely agree! That should be taken into consideration
@@Toxic-hz8slMy preference would be Shore Line East and the MBTA meeting at Westerly, around where the CT/RI state line meets the shore. Additionally the MBTA should electrify the rest of its Providence/Stoughton Line.
Broad Street Station suffered two debilitating fires in the 20th Century. The ROW that connected the BSS to 30th Street was a massive, stone-walled, above-ground monstrosity whose removal was a desirable end. Liberty Place didn’t arrive until 1985, decades after its demolition.
I went to Jefferson station yesterday and oh my goodness it feels just like a European system. Feels weird for have silverliner IV’s and old Comet coaches going through it just doesn’t fit the vibe, and the lovely underground restaurants were amazing! Felt like such a nice place to walk around and hang out in.
My #1 Improvement for SEP-d'UHHhhh . . .
The old "Cross County Metro" proposal, which was imagined with Interurban rolling stock, could also be done as "SEPTa"s Boonton Line",
I. E., Push-Pull Diesel-hauled double-deckers serving all high-platform stations along the Cutoff, with Air Rights from NJT to bypass the Morrisville Facility, and gauntlet tracks at each station to allow NS continued usage of the line.
I did a day trip to Center City last week and used SEPTA for the first time from/to Newark, DE. (I also did a trip up/back to Norristown just to ride the NHSL line with those 90s rocketship trains.) The area does have great transit bones like you said but dang it just feels so neglected. I'm used to riding the DC metro so tapping in/out wasn't an issue but was confused by having to use their app to add a day pass... then tap my physical card. Thankfully I hear they're testing contactless payment for Regional Rail. That being said, if MARC and SEPTA connected it would have saved me an hour drive to Newark, DE just to take the train. (thankfully free parking there still).
Thanks for the informative video!
Great video, very comprehensive. I really think SEPTA should be aiming for 10-15 minutes frequencies on every line, all-day, 7 days a week. That is what is needed for people to realize they don't need a car at all.
Great video! I always found it interesting to use the Regional Rail to travel between Trenton and Philly when the Amtrak tickets got too expensive.
In the past, SEPTA and NJT would work together on their schedules and create direct interchanges between Trenton trains and NEC trains. I wish they can bring that back one day.
What's weird is that Trenton TC does not have a Key Card reader despite being served by SEPTA, but I guess it doesn't matter as much since it is the last station of the line.
New Jersey Transit still offers tickets between Trenton and Philly. Although the ticket itself may says "30th Street," you can use it at any CC stations.
The Regional Rail also takes Amtrak tickets. You can use the QR code on an Amtrak ticket to take a Regional Rail train within the CC zone on the same day of your itinerary.
This is really slick when I need transit access to Newark Airport from Philly. The only thing I need is an Amtrak ticket between 30th Street and EWR. I scan the QR code at Market East and take a Regional Rail train to 30th Street. From there, I transfer to the Amtrak train. At EWR, I can use the exact same ticket to board the AirTrain. This is definitely worth the $26 if you manage to book it early enough.
Hope these help.
I remember when NJT and SEPTA coordinated, feels like it wasn't that long ago.
I lived in Philly from 2012-2020 and from 2014 to 2017 had an in person job in NYC. If I made a large purchase in a pay period, I slummed it on RR to NJT to get to Penn Station instead of Amtrak. It used to cost like 7 bucks! And the NJT was cross platform at trenton. Took twice as long as Amtrak but was a tenth of the price!
I feel like coordination between NJT and SEPTA, in conjunction with express services, could revive the “Clocker” trains the PRR once had. With perhaps some minor upgrades you could perhaps even run them every hour on the hour like they used to, probably make it take only an hour also.
Great mention of the NJT ACL. It's too bad that it's single-tracked and infrequent, it beats taking the AC Expressway any day.
There are some folks looking to increase awareness and improve service on that line, I'm working on speaking with them in the future.
Amtrak is a really useful supplement if you're in northern Delaware as the Wilmington-Newark line doesn't get nearly enough service and is so slow
Frequency on SEPTA Regional Rail is kept low by (a) chronic underfunding, combined with (b) too many stations lacking level boarding. Step-up boarding requires a second conductor. Which drives up the labor cost to run a train. SEPTA simply doesn't have the funds to pay Assistant Conductors for trains to run every 15 minutes throughout the day.
Hi! Can't confirm if this is their reasoning but I've noticed on the Bombardier equipment the lack of headrest in the inner most bench seat makes it much easier if you're carrying a shoulder bag or duffel as it's able to clear the seat back (assuming nobody's sitting there)
I mostly reside in Media. I live in an apartment complex that is within walking distance of the train station. It’s super convenient. I’m originally from the Reading area. There’s no passenger train travel except for a weekly excursion to Jim Thorpe. I really want SEPTA to open a line between Philadelphia and Reading. While we’re at it, NJ Transit needs to open a line between Newark and Allentown.
Hey! Fellow Media resident here! that's cool! And yeah, wholeheartedly agree that a service between Philly and Reading would be awesome. Thankfully, it seems like that will happen in the next few years, albeit it won't be SEPTA, it will be Amtrak. There's definitely a lot of reasons why that will be the case, and I want to go over that in future videos on the matter, but it's a good start. Having that as a connection to the Reading and Northern going up to Jim Thorpe would be awesome, and I'm excited for what that can do, even if I would've wanted it to be a more frequent, electrified SEPTA service rather than an Amtrak service with a few round trips a day, but it's a decent start.
I live in Bethlehem and I would love NJ Transit to extend through Lehigh Valley to Allentown and SEPTA to extend to Reading and connect to Allentown. Making Allentown a hub where you can get to New York and Philadelphia.
@jimmymcinerney1950 This, right here. I know that a service from NYC to Allentown run by Amtrak has been looked at for years, and it just missed the cut for Corridor ID, but if there is another chance of that, I'd love to see it happen. I have my own concept I'm creating as a thought experiment for a statewide rail system, and the Bethlehem/Allentown area would easily be one of the big hubs for the east and northeast of the state for such an idea.
Thank you for explaining this! A couple weeks ago I was trying to figure out the fare from the airport to Trenton. Spent 2 hours clicking around the SEPTA website, Reddit, etc. Nowhere was it spelled out whether I had to pay two fares (Airport to Center City, then CC to Trenton) or one fare. Maybe it's obvious to locals, but the SEPTA website literally did not say the answer anywhere, and I consider myself fairly good at reading lol. So anyway, thank you for answering this question albeit after my trip ended.
When yyou started talking about the rather expensive prices I was ready for something, but this price seems fair. My commute to Zürich costs about (with no passes or trickery) 27 Dollars per trip. Yikes!
@triton_152 Personally, I think SEPTA's fares are pretty reasonable for American regional rail, it's just that the system they use could be seen as confusing to the uninitiated. Like I say, it's a hell of a lot better than some I can name, like the three systems around New York, but I can safely say there aren't too many that get anywhere near Zurich levels, which yeah, that is ridiculous. I know the passes are pretty popular there, but even still, that's just crazy.
@SteveGettingAroundPhilly yea you're right, but luckily we never have to deal with the fare zones because the SBB app or ticket mashines do all the work, most people dont even know that there are zones. I myself have a Halbtax (half price card) and with EasyRide, I can push the fare down to 19 bucks for a round trip
Great video! Septa should just run more trains. They have EMUs, and I assume their crew are still on duty at the end of the line durring low peak hours. Regardless, it's still a lot better than a diesel hauled commuter train that runs 3 times each direction on weekdays (cough Metra cough)
SEPTA actually did plan to increase RR service using double decker cars. Unfortunately, they fell for the CRRC scam that screwed over many other services as well.
cough cough almost every single commuter line in the US actually
There is a fourth fully electrified regional/commuter rail line! Shore Line East in CT. They gave all the diesel equipment to the Hartford line and run M8s now.
Yep. And despite both being branded as CTRail, the Shore Line East and Hartford Line have completely independent operations.
15:50 The "NJ" zone fares are mainly because the State of New Jersey does not subsidize those two SEPTA lines. SEPTA is under the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, so they are by no means obligated to provide service to New Jersey. Funding for that service thus must come mainly from fares.
Delaware does not have the same situation because the State of Delaware intentionally subsidizes service from Marcus Hook to Newark; therefore, the onus for funding does not need to come primarily from fares, giving all Delaware stations a Zone 4 designation.
The NJ fare zone is because New Jersey doesnt subsidize those routes- the Wilmington line doesnt have a special fare zone because Delaware/DDOT has a deal to subsidize that line
Keystones are often around $12 from Paoli, so treating the ACL more as intercity (beyond the historic Amtrak service) makes sense
Excellent vid! Shoutout to Dienner’s BBQ in Reading Terminal Market, best wings I’ve had in Philly!
@@scottydude456 One I've been meaning to check out! Wouldn't be surprised if I go there sometime in the near future! 😀
SEPTA has sooo much potential! Even when it gives me a headache 😂. Oh and as a resident of Coatesville we are so stoked to get AMTRAK line here. We got a bus line like 3 or 4 years ago which has helped so many people!
wilmington/newark has weird service paterns because past marcus hook service is subsidized by the state of delaware (I believe they also actually own some silverliners too) in partnership with septa. this is also why its almost completely dependent on the state of delaware wanting to extend the line to connect to marc.
also, the reason west trenton exists is because septa originally ran trains as far as newark NJ when they still operated diesel services (part of legacy Reading service) and when these were all cut back to be electric only, west trenton became the terminus
The line that goes to Newark DE might same day connect to Maryland’s MARC line if it extends to Newark 🤞
I really hope septa reactivates it’s older lines that were discontinue, such as two Souderton, Telford and Bethlehem in Allentown, and up to Pottstown Reading. I know they are trying to reactivate the West Chester line, they just need funding from the state.
Well done!
This reminds me. I was gonna take advantage of NJ Transit's Fare Holiday this year (2024) by riding the AC Line for the first time but then my eczema decided to breakout during that week sadly...
proud R5 rider to st. joe's prep!
24:36 FOR VECTRON!
7:17 OMG R3 WEST CHESTER (Also awesome job on this video bro i like it alot (also where do you get those old septa signs???
Those seats with no headrest are similar to others around the world. Generally the reason why one has no headrest is most people take window or aisle leaving middle seat free, it is off putting and therefore a lot of people will stand thereby a free seat then reduces train capacity. By doing that ie remove the headrest people will take the middle seat beside someone at the window leaving aisle free to be filled.
Have seen it also where part of the actually seat is cut away making longer distance travel not as comfortable and also one such experiment where they made the seat a more unattractive colour.
As far as the aisle seat with no headrest, those seats aren't found on any of NJT's Comets anymore but they're still on Metro North's shoreliners and used to be on NJT's Comet IIIs and some Comet IIs (while others had orange flippable seats). Before all the Comet II's were refurbished to get the Comet IV's flippable blue seats (which are now mostly broken), I would seek out a car with the fixed brown seats because they were so much more comfortable than the orange flippable ones. I think the lack of a headrest was meant to serve two purposes: 1. it makes the aisle a little more open, at least when no one is sitting there, and 2. it encouraged people to move in and sit in the window and middle seats before occupying the aisle seats. Unlike any other NJ Transit trains with 2x3 seating people were pretty good at making full use of the fixed brown seats rather than only 2 or 1 people sitting there. You were also spared the absolute worst thing about traveling off-peak, which is two people flipping a seat and facing each other where six people could have sat.
Great to see this on the feed after coming back from a day trip to Doylestown! (On the Doylestown Line, natch).
Also, I was today years old when I found out that SEPTA ran service all the way to Allentown (albeit for only 2 years)! I was actually looking for videos on the Bethlehem Line, but there doesn't seem to be any, so I'm really looking forward to the upcoming video you mentioned,
PATCO needs more lines in south jersey, basically a line north of and south of the Lindenwold line, just as outlined in ... the ... original PATCO plan.
Oooh cant wait to see that metro video.
17:30 there’s also a fare for those that do not go in the city for instance Doylestown to Jenkintown or Norristown to Ivy Ridge. This fair is approximately 325 with the key and four dollars cash.
The Center City Connection is a stroke of genius. Did it happen first, or did the Paris RER happen first?
New York is in the process of doing it. LIRR is already at Grand Central and Metro-North is coming to Penn Station.
@pleappleappleap The RER came first, though it wasn't by much. The RER opened in 1977, and the Munich S-Bahn opened in 1972, so as these things go, Philly was a pioneer of the thru-running Regional Rail concept, and definitely so for North America. Obviously they didn't go as far as Paris or Munich, but it's cool to know that my city showed that we know what can make good transit great, but we can't fully get there yet.
Berlin‘s S-Bahn did it in 1939
@@bahnspotterEU I thought the Berlin S-Bahn was built that way, not converted from a previous disjoint system.
@@pleappleappleap It was largely converted from steam-hauled suburban services.
Now if only Boston could build a similar tunnel to connect North and South Stations.
The NJT ACL is interesting in the early 2010s there was a express service for it called the ACES but that got discontinued in 2012. the equipment was the ACES was interesting to say the last. NJT leased some P40DCS from Amtrak and then it was 4 special multilevel coaches with special ACES branding then there was interesting not a cab car but instead one of NJTS ALP44 locomotives on the rear so there was technically a electric on the ACL. thought that was be a cool fact to know.
Does anyone else think this guy sounds just like Ben from Parks and Recreation?
BSS was demolished to make way for Penn Center. Liberty Place is across Market Street and not related to the former Broad Street Station site.
@@LMHPhilly true, and I corrected myself in an annotation in the video. Thanks!
I do have to say, though, I'm British and took a trip from Suburban to Haverford and back on the Paoli/Thorndale Line and I was impressed. But why is it so infrequent!
Pretty cool that you got to ride it, and even cooler to me that you enjoyed it! But yeah, it's nowhere near what it could be.
Short answer to the question can largely be boiled down to SEPTA being chronically underfunded. In fact, it's considered one of the most underfunded transit agencies in the country when one considers the size of the city, and the modes of transport that the agency is responsible for. There's a lot of reasons for this, but the biggest one in my view is that there really is not a dedicated funding mechanism for the agency at the state level, which leads to inconsistent funding and squabbling over how much money the agency should get, and in a state like Pennsylvania where there isn't a consensus just yet at the state level regarding transit policy, it's why the status quo is what it is. It's incredibly frustrating, but this in turn leads to a lack of money going towards paying and training new crews to run more regional rail trains to bring the system up to its current potential.
Being from Britain, I'm sure you're familiar with the DfT and their interaction with the passenger rail franchises in the UK. It's something like that, except much more in the hands of politicians than civil servants. There's thankfully a renewed push to get this resolved in the long term, and I hope it can come to pass, not just for Philadelphia, but for Pittsburgh, Allentown, Reading, Harrisburg and other cities in the state that want to have some peace of mind when it comes to their transit funding, and in Philly's case, to see their system reach anything near its true potential, which is sky high to me.
@
Yeah, I actually liked it a lot. Same can’t be said for your metro system 😬
Ah, I see, so quite similar to rural services out here. It’s really disappointing that that’s the attitude of American cities to regional rail. The economic benefit is so clear - look at somewhere like New York where they’ve invested in it, it’s hugely popular. Pennsylvania is missing out if they don’t!
i heard the northeast corridor (amtrak lines) are on their own separate power grid, because the line was electrified before most cities had their own grids. it hasn't ever been connected to the national grid, which is why it suffers frequent breakdowns and isn't able to get help from its service cities' grids.
since i assume the regional lines were electrified around the same time, are they powered off the city's grid, or does SEPTA have to maintain their own electrical grid in order to keep them running?
You need more Thermal-and Renewable poer plants for your railroad electrification schemes!..
All the veteran riders I know, including me, still use the "R" designations. It's easier to remember and speak. But too many infrastructure problems on the old Reading lines--especially single-tracked sections--made the run-through consistency too difficult to adhere to.
19:32 pacer jumpscare!
The last time I had to use the regional rails inter-zonally, the dates were based on zone crossings. Staying in the same zone is the base rate, while crossing between zones is a fixed rate per crossing. Did that change?
Minute eleven: the bike at the front of the bus should be paied for ? Gas such a bike space to be prebooked or does it depend on good luck to get the oportunity to take your bike with you ?
I miss the days when Philly to AC was $10.25 😞
Just came across this video being a Philly person myself the El is fiend headquarters I love my city but septa be on some bs sometimes
Sweet!
Why is the photo flipped @3:53? The red letters on the bldg in the bkgnd should read "Bell Savings"
PHILLY
the atlantic city line should be exteneded to philly airport someday. may b even ny coonecting to the old b&o lin on the east bank of the delaware river.
I think nj regional rail fare zone came about in 2008 or something
PORK ROLLLS
you didn't mention the fact that the weekend service past malvern on the R5 is only 4 trains on Saturday 0 on Sunday and also they only get half service on weekdays being 2 hourly for most of the day minus peak! why septa why!
@Ratcher. Yeah, the old R5 is kind of a scheduling mess I've found. To me, it doesn't help that Amtrak and SEPTA don't to my knowledge coordinate timetables with each other (a common problem across the NEC network broadly), and I guess they want to concentrate their scheduling focus on the suburbs from Paoli on east, while treating Downingtown like its of little significance. Maybe the planned extension to Coatesville when the new station is completed will change that a bit, though with the awkward location of Fraser Yard where the Paoli-Thorndale line trains are stabled between Malvern and Exton, that problem will still persist afterwards. I guess we'll see on that front.
Better than Northern in the UK!