We Just Bought the Most Unappreciated Holy Grail of Electric Cars!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- ( tflcar.com/ ) In this video we buy the most under-appreciated electric car of the twenty first century!
( / tflcar ) Visit our Patreon page to support the TFL team!
Watch more videos from TFL Studios:
The Fast Lane Truck ( / tfltruck )
The Fast Lane Car ( / tflcar )
TFLoffroad ( / tfloffroad )
TFLbike ( / @tflbike )
TFLnow ( / tflnow )
TFLclassics ( / tflclassics )
TFLtalk ( / tfltalk )
TFL Podcasts:
TFL Talkin' Cars Podcast ( tflcar.libsyn.... )
TFL Talkin' Trucks Podcast ( tfltruck.libsy... )
#EV #Tesla #Chevrolet
Very cool Idea! I love your ‚cheap‘ EVs you buy. This is a lot of fun. Great job guys!
Thanks they are all a bargain now!
@@TFLcar When you guys buy cars like this, it’s how I know you are true automotive enthusiasts. You still get excited about quirky things and it doesn’t matter how big or small or if it’s driven by petrol or electrons. Keep up the good work!
I own a black 2016. What's even more impressive about the car besides its insane torque... is the fact that it charges faster due to its liquid cooled battery than all other gen 1 EVs. My spark fast charges up to 50kw when I hook it up to DCFC. But the charging curve is insane, most other gen 1's take an hour or more to get full. I can charge to 100% in 20 minutes from 10% battery. It's actually pretty remarkable. Even a tesla with a chademo adapter only gets 35kw on a 50kw station.
It's my car! I've been waiting for more of you big TH-cam guys to discover it!
If you compare it to a typical modern car, it can fall short in ways. But if you think of it as the world's fastest street legal go kart, it's exactly as awesome and rediculous as you'd expect! I love mine!
THIS IS WHY I follow your channel guys..honestly. Car Dad and Wonderkid....on a mission to explore the outer reaches of the automotive world! Queue Saturday morning cartoon music... Great video! Enjoy your vacation.
Ah yes the famous sparkbourgini. Let's roll!!!
hehe 😋
Leased one of these from 2016-2019. So awesome! And practical too with the rear passenger doors.
stfu boomer
I love how Tommy interacts with Roman. 😆 He corrects him expertly. Then there’s “we are ballers man”- Tommy “ O-kay “ LMAO
Great Video Guys....Another option for transport is what I ended up doing. I use my '14 Spark EV as a flat tow dinghy for our RV. We towed it over 10K miles from SF to Washington DC through Montreal Quebec and the Alberta BC Rockies and back. No heat or wear issues or degradation to the battery. On long downhill runs through the passes I even used the regen on the car to create a "hybrid" RV rig. At home I also use the car as a powerwall adding an inexpensive 12v inverter under the hood. This EV is one of the simplest and sturdiest of builds of all compliance EV's out there. Absolutely the most fun drive of all the electrics we have owned/own including the BMW i3 rex (2014), 1st Gen Leaf (2011), 2nd Gen Leaf (2018), Ford Focus Electric (2016), Chrysler Pacifica PHEV (2018)
How does this spark compare to the focus? We have a focus EV as well (2017) and I’m curious how it compared as far as power, range, likes and dislikes. Thanks in advance
Do you still have this car? How's your battery life like nowadays?
It's my car! I've had this car for a year now and really enjoy driving it. I would obviously like more range but it is so efficient and cheap to drive. I average 5-6 mi/kWh in the summer, pretty good. If you're looking for a great commuter car this is definitely one I would recommend. The range indicator changes depending on how you are driving it and does so pretty quickly. I've seen it change from 30 miles of range estimated down to 7-8 miles of range after only a mile or two because I started driving up a very steep mountain road. It recognizes that you are using a lot more energy and lets you know how it will effect your range I find it to be pretty accurate if your driving conditions stay the same. I'm excited to see them push it to it's limits.
btw A123 was originally founded and headquartered in Mass. they were that battery company famously known for being spun out of research done at MIT.
I love the Spark EV, although I’d definitely look for one with DC Fast charging capability! I wish someone had made a body kit and some sort of headlight styling upgrade for them, but I’d definitely drive one as a commuter car. Reliable, cheap, basic transportation! (And remember the resale comparison has to take into consideration the $10K+ in credits people were getting. People weren’t really paying full sticker when all was said and done.)
Roman: "We are balls man.."
Tommy: "Ohh..ok"
I want to see Paul/Stig racing that around the track...talk about torque steer.
Ballers
I've been rubbing myself over the 2014 Spark for quite a while now. Glad you guys were able to find one!
Finally, since you bought that little Fiat, I was requesting for you guys to buy the Spark EV. I have a 2014 w/ the 400+ torque and it's a sleeper.
Cool, but that thing looks scary. I…feel like it is…looking at me with il intent.
Common misconception that the higher 400 lb-ft torque models from 2014 are quicker/faster than the 'lower' 327 lb-ft rated 2015-2016 models.
The motor is the same. Torque was decreased but the GEAR RATIO was made shorter to compensate. Additionally, roughly 2kWh of battery capacity was removed which also decreased weight of the battery pack about 10%.
The result is that the 2015-2016 are actually FASTER to 60mph than the 2014 models due to the aforementioned changes. It's been proven in instrumented testing, 2014's are around 7.8's while 2015-16 are around 7.3's.
Both still incredibly fun though! The lack of DCFC is a problem with the short range. It also hurts resale as few want the limits of a 75 mile EV that takes a minimum 6 hours to charge from empty to full vs. the DCFC rate of just under 30 minutes.
I just got one. For 7 even with a DC fast charge option equipped. I took a bus to 20 miles outside Sacramento to pick it up and drove back the 435 miles to LA from one DC fast charger to another.
Dedication, how long does the DC take versus slow charging?
It’s interesting what GM was able to do in 2014. Shows they could have been much further along this path.
Don't forget there electric Saturn. They should have been ahead of tesla and everyone else. Chevy is dumb. There blazer could have been a competitor to jeep and Ford bronco. Nope they make it a soccer mom car. Yes it sells, but Chevy gets left in dust. Bison Colorado is ok, but not a jeep or bronco
@@taraaaron1242 interior design was always important to me and that’s why I couldn’t ever get with the Colorado even in ZR2 form. I agree with the Blazer. But with Hummer being the off-road label they wouldn’t make anything that would compete against it. Part of the issue with any company that owns different labels in the same industry. Gives you the illusion of choice but no real competition.
@@playnicebegoodtoothers6944 the hummer is cool, but really to big and not practical for trails that jeeps go on or the bronco will go on. Hummers price tag makes it a terrible option. I agree with you on inter design. The Colorado and Chevy trucks interior is horrible, Denali is nice though. 👌
When people talk about how other manufacturers could be ahead in EV they forget Tesla is selling because of superchargers. If they had hydrogen stations everywhere maybe they could lead with hydrogen vehicles
I know they didn't make many of them and they stopped their production
But, I think you should get your hands on a rav4 ev
I agree. saw one in denver the other day, and having a rav4 myself, I kind of nerded out over it.
I see a few of those ravs driving around ca from time to time. Definitely unique vehicles
The car dealership where I work had one until very recently. I live in Michigan. long story
Very cool! I did not realize the Spark existed in an EV, especially w/ 400 lbs of torque.
If they had offered it with a moonroof/sunroof, I would have bought one in a heartbeat. Same with the Bolt. Hence my love for the 500e.
I considered the 500e but it was too small for me. I really like how tall the interior of the Spark EV is. I am more comfortable in the Spark than I have been in a lot of cars, I'm 6' 3".
That was your only hesitation? You could have easily added one yourself for relatively little cost: 2014chevysparkev.blogspot.com/2016/05/sunroof-install.html
A thought occurred when you opened the bonnet (hood) and the boot ( trunk) why do all ev manufacturers leave the charge cables either in a bag or loose in the trunk when there seems to be enough space under the hood for a dedicated cable storage system so you don’t have to rummage through the luggage/ move stuff to recharge. It seems obvious to me especially if the charge port is at the front of the car.
In Canada we got a lot of the California compliance cars, including the spark EV.
Nope to the power output. Check the gearing btwn 2014 and 15/16.
I have the 2015 model. It's still pretty fast for what it is. I just wish it was all wheel drive. edit- the thing that sucks about the range is that you just can't rely on chargers to go for a longer distance drive. Some of them can be broken or non functional and if that is the only charger for miles you can get stuck pretty fast.
Dear GM. I’ve loved you my whole life. Maybe before I die you can start making nice interiors. Signed GM fan
We'll all be dust before they make a good interior again lol
My wife and I bought a 2016 last December. It is FUN to drive, peppy, fast and CHEAP to drive.
This little thing is a burnout legend! Tommy living the FLA life in his Teva’s!!! Are there any chip mods available like you did with the lovable lemon?
I live in California so I see these compliance cars often. I’ve always wanted a Spark EV but I often drive 100+ miles in a day. Instead I purchased a 2013 Volt in the press color Viridian Joule. While it doesn’t have as much torque, it’s still quick. The 36 miles of range is plenty for my daily commute but being able to go further than that is so nice too. Someday I’ll buy a Spark EV but as a fun second car.
Did you ever get yours? I'm thinking of buying one as a second car along my Volt as well
Because of this video. I bought mine used. It's serving its purpose for 16miles one way to work. It does what I intended it to do. Fun car for sure.
Ok and i thought my 300 Torque Wagon is a Sleeper.. 400 sounds like a lot of fun.
I at one point owned a VW Passat with the 1.8T 20v... that made 166 ft lbs and it felt "torquey" for what it was, and could burn up the front tires if you persuaded it a bit. This tiny little thing puts it to shame.
My last repair was quiet expensive. Since one Day i had a steady mild vibration in the front Axle and it stays. I thought it is a warped Rim. My Car is FWD and Heavy. Fee weeks later the Time for my German TÜV was come. I didnt passed it . My Mechanik called me. That 300 Torque had turned my Left Side Drive Shaft over time to a Screw.. and warped it. Also my wheelbearing and HUB where affected by the wobble and rocked free to move Back & Forth in the whole Housing.. So the whole Wheel was loose .. i didnt feel it in my heavy good dampened Wagon. That was quiet scary to think about it.
Just make sure you get the 2014 if you want all of that torque. Mine is a 2015 when they limited it to 327. Still plenty of fun but I was a bit sad when I realized. At least mine was a good deal as well. I paid $7500 for mine a year ago.
@@valderon3692 While 2015 'technically' had less rated motor torque. They also shortened the gearing ratio to compensate which in turn actually made the same/MORE 'effective' torque at the wheels and a faster overall 0-60.
Don't forget the spark is probably the smallest GM car in 50 years.
GM should have given a free E Spark to every large pickup/suv buyer. That would get their CAFE numbers up!
10:09 - No one cares about the pasty legs. It's the sandals that worry us 😁
Very curious to see if you can further harness all that power. If I owned that car as you gentlemen do I would experiment with disconnecting wheel speed sensors and if that didn’t work hunt for any driveline vehicle speed sensors. I’m sure there are some other avenues to take as well.
I would love that I drive about 15 miles round trip so 82 mile range is perfect!!
No reason to put miles on your nice car you can dog these hard and they take it!
Have a 2016 "high end" Spark EV, same color with pleather seats ans CCS Quick Charge . I Always get over 4 mi/KWH. Usually do more than 6 mi/KWH in NYC traffic. So far maintenance costs have been less than $50 total (wiper blades, windshield fluid and cabin filter) Paid 9K in 2019, With New York's Con Edison Smart Charge Rewards program, I've been getting more back in cash rewards than I pay for the electricity I use. Can't say that about my ICE vehicles with thier $50+ fill ups. I love my silent hot hatch !
Small cars can be so much fun. We rented one in LA a few years ago and loved it.
Love it! I had a 2015 Spark EV for about 1.5 years and 10k miles before upgrading to the MINI Cooper SE. Interestingly, the 2015 had similar wheel torque to the 2014 because it had 327 ft-lbs and 3.87:1 vs 400 ft-lbs and 3.1:1. I managed to find one with CCS in Utah and towed it back to Colorado. They’re certainly a bit spartan inside, but such fun city cars.
Thanks for the gear ratios, what matters is torque at the wheels.
How did you like it in comparison to the Mini EV?
You didn't mention that with CCS this car takes between 10-12 minutes to charge to 95%. That is insanely fast. You can get a 60% charge in 5-6 minutes. That makes it practical for medium long trips too.
I have a Bolt EUV and love it, but I would still try to find one of these if I had the money. Zipping around to the grocery store would probably be even funner with such a small car.
It would be safe to say that they won’t be driving this car home.
The 500 EV was definitely a compliance car. Sergio Marchionne didn't even want people to buy them because it lost them money.
It’s really cool seeing so many design & SW features that evolved into my 2017 Bolt.
Just caught the price you paid. That sounds like a great deal!
I love to watch the interaction Son and Dad. 👏👏👏👏👏
Congrats for seeing how cool these little cars are. I recently picked up a 2016 with only 11K miles and it only has 327 ft lbs of torque, which is still more than my 1980 Grand Am 301 V8, 1983 Cross Fire Injection Trans Am 305 V8 and 1999 Ford Taurus SE DOHC V6. It also has the fast charge option and will charge to 80% typically around 15mins. Now that the weather has warmed up I am seeing typically 100+ miles of range. Here in Pittsburgh PA I average 5.5 miles per Kwh which includes some highway at 60-65. It is amazing how loaded these cars come. I wanted an EV but I wanted a small package (but not a Smart thank you), with a low cost and this car is it. I enjoy leaving the SUVs, cars/trucks with loud performance exhaust at stop lights damn the range....lol. I'm looking for a Mini EV to poke into a little stoplight action as I think these two would be a pretty good match along with the larger BMW i3. Looking forward to your further reviews and testing! Enjoy!
I used to have one just like that. Got it off Carvana. Returned it due to the range, but boy was it fun!! It’s name was Stuart Little!!
Ballers! You’re both very entertaining and informative. I like the hand-off camera work as well.
Cool car I wish we had cheap electric cars in Australia
Definitely a hidden gem specially if i didnt know that car even existed ! sad gm at the time didnt keep the ev1 cars alive ! they would have got better range with the newer nmh batterys !
That's a lot of torque, I drove an all electric nero at a dealership and I thought that was torquey, but only had 180 ft lb.
this car would be perfect for a majority of city dwellers and students. 90 miles is more than enough for the average daily commute to work/school/grocery. And if they have their own garage for charging, it's nearly a no-cost automobile to own. Give it a better looking body and cheap price (relative to all other EVs, domestic and foreign) and it would probably sell pretty well.
What’s up from Florida!
For those thinking that 80 miles of range is not a lot, well this was supposed to be a city car not a cross country tourer, and 90% of the people would have no problem with 80 miles of range for daily use around town. With DC fast charging you can even gain 80% of that back in less than 20 minutes, 30 minutes will get you a full charge.
Elegantly engineered. Simply one awesome car that holds up even today. I just wish it had more range and faster charging which seems to be the Bain of electrics. Eventually I can see the majority of cars being electric. But for that to happen we need a metric ton of charging stations installed everywhere.
What a surprise to see you in my backyard in the car I too yearned for after test driving a new one in 2016 in Maryland and being told I can’t buy the car because I live in Delaware??? This country has some really strange laws. I too have been searching for a used one, but seem rare on the East Coast. Enjoy Marco, I know I always do. I would be willing to drive your Spark EV home to Colorado for you…as long as you don’t mind the bald tires by the time I get there?
My mom has a blue 2016 Spark. I have a red 2015 Tesla Model S. As weird as it sounds, I love driving her Spark every bit as much as I enjoy driving my Tesla.
Perhaps it is because her Spark was my first EV experience (I got my used Model S later). Whatever the reason, I do know that the first time I drove it (the Spark), I immediately knew that I would never enjoy driving an ICE vehicle ever again.
Since I bought mine 2 months ago I have driven it 1,300 miles at a cost of $29 in electricity. At the cost of Gas here today $2.89 a gallon that is like getting 130 miles to a gallon.
How is your electricity so cheap? It costs me like $0.13/kWh, so I spent $33-34 to go that same distance not counting the fast charging where it cost about $5 per charge. You must still have a decent amount of free charging near you. I did go about 150 miles for free on one trip because of that.
@@valderon3692 I miss added my cost, instead of $20 it should have been $29, post has been updated. Our cost for electricity is $0.10 per kWh.
@@Tim-Tiller I think we pay an average of $0.12 but it could be as low as $0.10 if we used less electricity because it is based on your consumption. The more you use the more you pay per kWh. Though gas is $3.20 here so I'm sure the savings make up for the $4 extra I spent. Either way I agree that it's a great commuter if you are already looking in that price range.
@@valderon3692 yeah, Ours is straight rate, they have no up-charges right now based on usage.
I usually average 5.5 to 6.5 miles per kWh.
@@Tim-Tiller I just remembered to add the charging inefficiencies and that puts me closer to $41. Still about 1/3 of the price of driving gas or the equivalent of 75 mpg.
400 ft/lbs of torque wowzer. Hitch that baby up lolz.
Had a 2015 for a year and a half until it was totaled in an accident. Hated the lousy stereo. The seats could be more supportive. Nevertheless, it was very efficient, reliable, and fun to drive. Loved the car.
Oh man, the phrase “one year option” really gets me going. Sweet find!
Marco! You guys are practically in my back yard :) Hope your Vacation lasts into next week. It's been extra cloudy and rainy. Should be better starting tomorrow, and back to normal next week.
I think you guys are lucky. It's been almost 100F with no clouds all week where I live and we really need the water. I recently heard we might have power issues if this continues because we run off of a lot of hydro and the reservoir is low.
owned this car for 3 years. Its a massive sleeper at stop lights. super zippy n fun. Needs right kinda tires though
The holy grail of electric cars is one that works for our modern lives.
Had this car for a 3 year lease. AMAZING car!
I would love to see you guys buy a Chevy Bolt and do a long term review of it.
I can’t think what I dislike more The shorts 🩳 or the car 🚙
I know someone who had one. Lots of burnouts. Definitely one of the most overlooked EV’s because of its low range and being a Spark.
I had a friend in college who had one of these and it was quite the burnout machine
This is just another reason why GM deserves to be the zombie company they have become. They only used their ingenuity to create a great vehicle not meant for mass production and only designed to game the system. Leave to GM to never miss an opportunity to miss and opportunity.
I almost bought one of those. Very hard to find for sure. I ended up getting a i3s bev. You need. More i3 content btw…
I BOUGHT MINE A FEW MONTHS AGO, SAME YEAR SAME COLOR, 53K MILLES FOR $5500. SUPER FUN, AND I DRIVE IT FROM LA TO LAS VEGAS. YES ITS POSIBLE BUT PAINFULL. LOT OF FUN THO.
How did you steal that deal. Where did u find it? How?
Yo, I’ve got family in Marco island!
I like that little golf cart!
I have one of these, and it's been really good to me! Definitely an underrated car. GM might not make the most reliable gasoline cars in the world, but they do know how to make electric ones well. Because they're simpler to build I guess. The Bolt is another example of a reliable electric car. I've seen people choose those over Tesla's, despite it's age.
Imagine you’re sitting at a light in your Civic Si and this pulls up next to you…
*sweating profusely*
I have a Ford Focus Electric and would highly recommend any of these first gen EVs
I have an FFE as well. I longed for a Spark EV for three years, but the storage was just too tight for my kids softball gear.
Yes they are very very cool, from what i know they had some buy backs, the range disappears mysteriously, issues with battery, other than that very nice cute car
Despite the economic crisis, this is still a good time to invest in stock and crypto
I Invested in Crypto and stocks but believe me crypto is better than stocks
Investing in Crypto is actually the wisest thing to do now despite everything going on in the world
Both investments are good to go into but if profit must be considered then crypto is far better.
Many people will regret not buying and investing in crypto now because Crypto is Future ??
@@oliviaphilip5759
Exactly ?
You are absolutely right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cute! I wonder if someone has made a tuning kit like you had on Tweety Bird?!
So are we
Non that I am aware of… besides you wear out the front tires fast enough already!
I think this is a great series.
i'm trading my Veloster N in for more than I paid and getting a used Spark EV. Gonna save a lot of money and buy call options.
Just bought me a 2016 Spark EV 2 months ago. Even it has 327lbft of torque. It’s a blast to drive. Had it shipped from Oregon to Tennessee.
Congrats and have fun with it!
It’s still as fast as the 400ftlbs ,our 327ftlbs motor has a 3.8 final drive compared to the 3.1. On paper the 327 is a tenth faster 0-60 and with a throttle controller you can almost remove the 0-30 torque limiter and it beats a Camaro SS off the line , Mustang , 350 Z , Tesla 3 non performance. Really surprise people when the ICE gas car has around 98ftlbs and you blast past people with the EV.
I drove one of those before buying a C-MAX Energi. Does yours have a loud whine as you accelerate? The one I test drove would have made you deaf!
Thanks for buying Sparks and NOT Bugatti’s!
First thing I thought was "this would be a great road trip vlog.". Then I realized it would take 25 days to get to CO from FL in this and said "no." Fun little car for around town, but that is about it.
the Chevy Bolt's UNCLE.
I was just in Virginia, contemplating if I bought a SparkEV there would it be possible to drive it back to Arkansas. Using the Charge point app I figured there were only 2 or 3 spans that would be impossible. But if you use B roads and drive 30mph...maybe? :-) Excited to see you finally got one. Maybe now I'll convince my wife to let me get one.
Might be easier to have it shipped to you or to a nearby state where you can pick up and drive it home
Hmmm you guys should see if you can increase the range maybe there is an aftermarket battery adaptation company?
I'm late to the party with these comments but I echo the other Spark owners with their affection for the little EV. I've had a 2016 version since 2019. With it's DC fast charge option I can pretty much go where I want as long as I follow the route of a charging network. Hopefully we'll get more charging infrastructure in the near future. For me the Spark EV is in a sweet spot for power and battery size. If the battery was bigger the car would have more range but be too heavy. The current performance then couldn't be matched by the stock motor, so it wouldn't be as peppy. When I first looked at the specs of this car on paper I thought some of the the choices were odd. For example, the 3.3kw charger - why so small? Once I bought it and started driving it, everything made sense. Level 2 charge times for this battery pack are completely reasonable at 3.3kw. 5 hours from 10% to 100% on 220V. My habit is to charge at 30% so 3 hours usually does it. A bigger charger would have been more expensive with no big time advantage, particularly if you also have the DC fast charge option. I'm genuinely impressed at what the engineering team achieved in converting the Spark to electric. It's the most well thought out conversion of an ICE subcompact to electric that I've seen. Creature comforts are lacking, infotainment system is marginal and now outdated and the interior is all cheap materials galore BUT it's fun to drive and dead reliable.
It’s so freaking annoying, an ad always pops right when the excitement in the video hits, in this case during the acceleration. It’s aggravating!
I drove the only one in Sana'a the capital of Yemen and its owned by friend of mine which he is the manager of maintenance workshop of General Motors Agency here in Yemen. This little spark is crazy fast for a little car and compared to other petrol engine that comes with Spark the 1.2 American Specs and the 1.0 Korean Specs. Great car and amazing but electricity is a big problem here in Yemen and it would be difficult to charge such EV car and find a power resource for charging. At the end, had a wonderful experience and I was shocked by the amount of torque this EV car deliver. Great video TFL, keep up the good work, your fan from the southern tip of the Arabian Peninsula , Yemen.
Very neat story, thanks!
This is funny... I just happen to be looking for one of these... Thanks!
I found one and bought it!
All these cars need is an aftermarket battery with slightly more range under $10k. It'll save them from the landfill after GM decides to stop replacing their batteries
No wrap. I love the colour. Cool car.
I think Tommy should visit SCG Glickenhause and visit where the Boot is manufacturered.
Looks like a fun little car.
There are at least 4 2015 Chevrolet Spark EVs for sale in Norway..
Little cars like this can be a lot of fun. Cheap and cheerful! I test drove a new Spark back in 2014. Just a regular gas version. I really liked the interior. The colorful inserts and upholstery were neat. I opted for the Mirage, but that's a whole other story. I wonder, do EVs that utilize strong regenerative braking automatically put on the brake lights when you let off the throttle without using the brake pedal, since the cars slow down so quickly? That's a concern of mine. Getting rear-ended and the guy who hits from behind complaining my brake lights never came on.
When you have it in low ( high regen) and your foot is off the accelerator the brake lights come on.
In D it coasts and is more like a regular car with engine braking for regen.
@@Tim-Tiller thanks for the info.
I owned two Gas Sparks before I got the EV version, without a doubt the EV is much more fun to drive.
Hey!!! That's my car! I love it!!
I had one of those, and it was a blast!
Do you stop this car with your feet!? 😂😂 damn it’s so small I need it for me son.