Check out the Merch Store: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com/ Thank you guys for watching and if you have any ideas for future videos please put them in the comment section below and they might just end up in the pipeline, thanks again, much Love.
To your point: the ability to dogfight in a fighter jet is like having working AC in the summer Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it
I think I hopped on the GS train when you had around 50K subscribers. Just noticed you are at 626K. So cool. Congrats, man. Thank you for all of the effort.
While this is true, it was also mainly because of the rules of engagement which made the F4 fight with two hands tide behind it's back with cement blocks on it's feet. Like, Politicians suck. :(
And passive radar is on the verge of negating traditional stealth capabilities, at least over populated areas. I'd assume that future generations of "stealth" will utilise electronic warfare more than passive technologies.
And because the Raptor is so dominate, many experts speculate that it will run out of missiles long before the pilot is ready to "knock it off". These experts have been pushing the USAF to up the bullet count in the Raptor for at least 10 years now.
Hard to predict the future. Relative effectiveness of missiles could go down due to better countermeasures, jammers, etc. If there were a large airbattle of 20+ aircraft, one may find themselves fighting at gun ranges amidst the chaos.
I think that one Fox-2 that did strange things was actually jumping from flare to flare as you deployed them. It shows best on the external view of the shot he made.
4:02 same reason we still did hand to hand combat in the Marines. You will probably never need it. But probably still means you could. And learning those types of things on the fly is not a path to a long life.
After Korea and into the Vietnam conflict, the USAF insisted on missile only interception. The Russian piloted NVAF Migs changed their minds in a hurry. To the point that guns were literally strapped onto F-4s, and the USN started Top Gun with merge as the focus.
I can imagine another scenario where close combat could occur; situations in which nobody is certain of intent. Warcraft approach each other during a tense/complex international incident, and neither yet has been ordered to engage. You might find yourself within 2 miles of a suddenly hostile enemy.
another point against "dogfighting is dead" is 5th gen fighters: if 2 stealth jets can't see each other from radar and irst (or can see each other but their missiles struggle to track) there is a much bigger chance that they'll end up in a merge
its both over rated and underrated alot of people glaze it cause of a training where the eurofighter got a kill on a f22 but its a amazing plane still no match for the f22
@@udpbooterIt's also worth remembering how exceptional the F-22 is. Even being able to kill it sometimes is a massive achievement IMO. If they did these dogfights at say 40k ft or above, it would be an even closer fight.
It's amazing to see maneuverability and how it translates into a real fight instead of an airshow. Makes you wonder what the next generation of fighters capabilities will look like and how long until there's no cockpit or pilot anymore.
A nation with a GDP like 10 times lower then US and that's been sanctioned from the west where alot of there tech was claimed to be coming from.. and they are still firing missiles so
@@Trades46they also have LoAL, which basically makes it so that if they loose a tatget they'll try their best to go where the target is presumed to be
Here's the thing about dogfighting. This is the point in history where it starts to get complicated. An F-22 should never allow an F-16 or any 4th Gen to close with it. You can always watch the 4th Gen and maintain distance when it can't do the same. 2, 5th Gens on the other hand... they won't be able to see each other until you're basically in Fox-2 range. 5th Gens will almost always be in close-range Fox-3 or dogfight. The dogfight will never die, there will always be situations where you need to be able to dogfight.
The thing is that modern radar systems can spot stealth arcraft at pretty far ranges already and even the lock on range has reached about 40 - 50km with top of the line systems.
That was like 60 years ago when beyond visual missiles where in there infantcy.. replace aim 7 with a aim120 and a good radar on a plane that's not easy tracked.. and ofcourse rules of engagement that allows those missiles to be used and you have a different story.
@@daltonv5206no not really the a jet by itself is a jet a jet with a man is a better jet it is the pilot because the capability’s of the jet can only be exploited by the pilot
I’ve watched these videos for (years?) now. I don’t recall another F-22 dogfight video where you pulled such tight loops and turns. We know the F-22 is capable of it, but this was the first video where you actually see it in action. Fantastic piloting.
Indian Air Force always expects WVR fight. Because the battle between PLA Airforce and Indian Airforce will happen in mountains and valleys, where merging is common. That's why they're procuring AMRAAM, MICA, Python, R-73 all those HOBS missiles
It's possible that in a combat situation one runs out of missiles and has to fight their way back to base. In that scenario, if the alternative is running and being shot down, wouldn't it be best to try to force a merge where missiles are less effective and use your guns until the opportunity to escape presents itself?
I like where your head's at!😂🤪 I made the suggestion a while back about him making a video with a Raptor armed with Meteor missiles and he made that video a couple of days ago. It was fantastic! If you keep suggesting it, there's a good chance he may make a video on it. One of the reasons why GS is one of my favorite channels is because he creates all kinds of flight scenarios we would never see in the real world. My all time favorite video is when he introduced the Grinelli Thrust Vector F-22 which is the F-22 he flew in this video. This is not an ordinary; it's an F-22 on steroids! It flies faster and turns tighter than a regular F-22 in DCS. If you look at the kill replays in this video and some of the kill replays in some of his other F-22 videos, you can see the difference. Now keep in mind, he doesn't always fly this monster so it's a treat to see him fly it. He's flown it in a few other videos, and he doesn't always say it but when I see it fly, I'm like "AH!!! That's the Grinelli F-22."😂🤪
As mentioned, they said the dog fight was dead in 1965 with the first versions of the F4 Phantom. Later versions reinstalled the 20mm cannon. But then again they wanted to eliminate fighters at one time too, since ICBM was all the rage and they thought long distance bombers would disappear. B52 and TU95 are still around and will be for a long time.
Before Korea people believed Dogfights were obsolete due to the speed of Jets. Before Vietnam people believed Dogfights were obsolete, because of Missiles. Well...
8:06 That is unreal. As a ground observer I might have just assumed they collided with one another. I mean I know you can see them explode before they hit, but unless you had highly zoomed in footage to review you wouldn't necessarily notice that.
GS, you ever consider the fact that combat aircraft from rival nations often fly up close and "observe" each other all the time, for example between Russia and Alaska? Oftentimes it happens at very close range. What if a fight broke out in a situation like that? Would suck not to be able to dogfight.
How far away was his missile on Iimpact for round 4? because it looked like it was far enough away to me not to do that type of damage but I guess close enough
That thought was thought before, but the soon found out that they (Military) still needed guns with the F/B-4 phantom and they even put pods on the F-106 and a few other gunless fighters
The experts said dog fighting was obsolete in the 1960's with the missles equipped on the F4, and what did the Pilots end up demand to be put back on the F4, a gun. A gun may not be used all the time but it's insurance
To your point at pilots needing to learn such skills we recently saw that drunk Russian Pilot nearly ram the F16 during a routine intercept mission - so we know that aircraft can get close to each other and if that situation turned into a hot fight (which I also hope never happens) then both sets of pilots would need to know what to do. And it has happened - Gulf of Sidra for example in 1981 when 2 Libyan SU 22s fired on 2 USN F14s during a merge and got shot down for their trouble.
Here's an interesting question I honestly don't know. How does the aim9x get tone while it's stored inside of a missile bay or is it a data link from the raptor just "guessing"?
@GrowlingSidewinder this is probably accurate. Also here's a tid bit of knowledge on the ah64 apache as well. I worked at the facility that builds em. There's a system on the apache called gfas. Stands for ground fire acquisition system. Has sensors on either side of aircraft. When someone fires at the apache or an rpg whatever, these sensors triangulate and automatically slew the gun to where the rounds/rpg came from and all cp/g has to do is identity and pull the trigger.
The Dogfighting is dead mindset is the same mistake the US government made in Vietnam not putting a gun on the F4!! It's not dead it's just not used as often, but happens when you run out of missiles and there is still and enemy to kill. It's better to have the skill and not need it than need it and not have it!
I swear that f22 cockpit looks more like dark like there's more like contrast, wasn't there like a lot of the color gray? It looks like the gray was replaced with black
Can we get a duel team match up? Using the best fighters on the rosters. Both sides can have gta and awaks which can be targeted. Air to air support is up to each side.
Check out the Merch Store: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com/
Thank you guys for watching and if you have any ideas for future videos please put them in the comment section below and they might just end up in the pipeline, thanks again, much Love.
To your point: the ability to dogfight in a fighter jet is like having working AC in the summer
Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it
I think I hopped on the GS train when you had around 50K subscribers. Just noticed you are at 626K. So cool. Congrats, man. Thank you for all of the effort.
I appreciate you sticking around so long man. You early subs really helped build this channel. Much love.
He is fun to watch....and a a shout out to his opponents too.😊
F/A-18E/F vs F-35C (Fox-2 fight) would be epic to see! Navy vs Navy : Old vs New
Day 176
They said the dog foght was dead when the F4 came out.
Thats why they added a big fat gun pod to it later.🤣👍🏻
While this is true, it was also mainly because of the rules of engagement which made the F4 fight with two hands tide behind it's back with cement blocks on it's feet.
Like, Politicians suck. :(
Even if the increases in technology reduce the chance of a dog fight to 1%, that is still a 1% chance you will get into one.
@@gotafarmyet4691 Oh yeah definitely. I was just saying that politicians suck
As aircraft become more stealth, it may force engagement distances to be closer thus make dog fighting more likely regardless of standoff capability.
And passive radar is on the verge of negating traditional stealth capabilities, at least over populated areas. I'd assume that future generations of "stealth" will utilise electronic warfare more than passive technologies.
And because the Raptor is so dominate, many experts speculate that it will run out of missiles long before the pilot is ready to "knock it off". These experts have been pushing the USAF to up the bullet count in the Raptor for at least 10 years now.
Hard to predict the future. Relative effectiveness of missiles could go down due to better countermeasures, jammers, etc. If there were a large airbattle of 20+ aircraft, one may find themselves fighting at gun ranges amidst the chaos.
no wonder the us spent so much on the f35 lmao
Thats y dogfighting is still important...glad somebody else gets it.
I think that one Fox-2 that did strange things was actually jumping from flare to flare as you deployed them. It shows best on the external view of the shot he made.
It does look like that but from the external view, it continues to do that even when no flares are deployed.
I think it just kept over correcting for some reason
4:02 same reason we still did hand to hand combat in the Marines. You will probably never need it. But probably still means you could. And learning those types of things on the fly is not a path to a long life.
After Korea and into the Vietnam conflict, the USAF insisted on missile only interception. The Russian piloted NVAF Migs changed their minds in a hurry. To the point that guns were literally strapped onto F-4s, and the USN started Top Gun with merge as the focus.
I can imagine another scenario where close combat could occur; situations in which nobody is certain of intent. Warcraft approach each other during a tense/complex international incident, and neither yet has been ordered to engage. You might find yourself within 2 miles of a suddenly hostile enemy.
Exactly! What if you need to visually ID your targets for RoE? In the real world, uncertainty & complexity are everywhere.
another point against "dogfighting is dead" is 5th gen fighters: if 2 stealth jets can't see each other from radar and irst (or can see each other but their missiles struggle to track) there is a much bigger chance that they'll end up in a merge
Eurofighter hella underrated. I’m glad we have them as our Allie’s
its both over rated and underrated alot of people glaze it cause of a training where the eurofighter got a kill on a f22 but its a amazing plane still no match for the f22
@@udpbooter Its more of how the pilot does, GS can kill anything with any jet he plays
@@udpbooter It's a multirole fighter-bomber as you know just as how the Raptor is no match for strike missions compared to the Typhoon.
@@udpbooterIt's also worth remembering how exceptional the F-22 is. Even being able to kill it sometimes is a massive achievement IMO. If they did these dogfights at say 40k ft or above, it would be an even closer fight.
Having a gun-less jet is a mistake they originally made with the F4. They learned their lesson.
I was thinking the same thing.
It's amazing to see maneuverability and how it translates into a real fight instead of an airshow. Makes you wonder what the next generation of fighters capabilities will look like and how long until there's no cockpit or pilot anymore.
The past 4 years lessons have shown that a nation can fire (ground/air) missiles faster than they can build them, hence the gun.
A nation with a GDP like 10 times lower then US and that's been sanctioned from the west where alot of there tech was claimed to be coming from.. and they are still firing missiles so
Is that EF-2000 using some experimental fox-2s? So many of them went loopy off the rail.
IRST act a little weird in DCS, but they have a long burn time and some insane G capabilities
@@Trades46they also have LoAL, which basically makes it so that if they loose a tatget they'll try their best to go where the target is presumed to be
they can do that
I really like the eurofighter. Thanks for the great video❤️
When it comes to dog fighting abilities, I’d say it’s better to have the ability and not need it than to need it and not have it…🤷🏽♂️
A SU-75 vs J-35A and F-35A BVR and or Fox 2 fight of some configuration would be neat.
Here's the thing about dogfighting. This is the point in history where it starts to get complicated. An F-22 should never allow an F-16 or any 4th Gen to close with it. You can always watch the 4th Gen and maintain distance when it can't do the same. 2, 5th Gens on the other hand... they won't be able to see each other until you're basically in Fox-2 range. 5th Gens will almost always be in close-range Fox-3 or dogfight.
The dogfight will never die, there will always be situations where you need to be able to dogfight.
The thing is that modern radar systems can spot stealth arcraft at pretty far ranges already and even the lock on range has reached about 40 - 50km with top of the line systems.
This was definitely all about revenge from the last video lol😂 and I’m here for it!
3:33 that's what they said about the F-4 phantom era and look what happened in Vietnam
That was before air to air missiles became reliable enough to get regular kills
That was in 60's dude.
That was like 60 years ago when beyond visual missiles where in there infantcy.. replace aim 7 with a aim120 and a good radar on a plane that's not easy tracked.. and ofcourse rules of engagement that allows those missiles to be used and you have a different story.
It's not the raptor it's the pilot
It's both
@@daltonv5206no not really the a jet by itself is a jet a jet with a man is a better jet it is the pilot because the capability’s of the jet can only be exploited by the pilot
Nah its the Raptor. Thing does all the work for you
Raptor *definitely* helps..
Musket vs semi auto... And you tell me the outcome is decided by the user. Completely ignoring the advantages one may have.
1:55 - That missile looks like a balloon you blew up and let go of...🤣
I go back sometimes just to rewatch that video to see 0:32 happen again
Which video is it from? I’d like to watch it
@@DeclanMcL the most recent eurofighter vs f22 video besides this one
I’ve watched these videos for (years?) now. I don’t recall another F-22 dogfight video where you pulled such tight loops and turns. We know the F-22 is capable of it, but this was the first video where you actually see it in action. Fantastic piloting.
Indian Air Force always expects WVR fight. Because the battle between PLA Airforce and Indian Airforce will happen in mountains and valleys, where merging is common. That's why they're procuring AMRAAM, MICA, Python, R-73 all those HOBS missiles
Do you mean ASRAAM? Cause AMRAAM is a Fox-3 intended for BVR.
remember the F4 was designed without a gun but they had to retrofit it with a gun pod.
That's the coolest thing I've seen in a while. The roll at the end w/both Fox2s still attached. Nice. Thanks for doing the work.
Oh, pretty fireworks, Mommy ! Mutual kills are wild.
Raptor and GS dominance.
It's possible that in a combat situation one runs out of missiles and has to fight their way back to base. In that scenario, if the alternative is running and being shot down, wouldn't it be best to try to force a merge where missiles are less effective and use your guns until the opportunity to escape presents itself?
That's no machine gun, it's a laser beam of solid metal bullets!
Firing a high off boresight missile while in a flat spin is crazy 😭
Day 130 of asking for a modern Falklands scenario: Eurofighters and Lightning IIs vs. Falcons
P38 lightning VS everything!
Let's see what a Python 5-equipped Raptor could do.
I like where your head's at!😂🤪
I made the suggestion a while back about him making a video with a Raptor armed with Meteor missiles and he made that video a couple of days ago. It was fantastic!
If you keep suggesting it, there's a good chance he may make a video on it. One of the reasons why GS is one of my favorite channels is because he creates all kinds of flight scenarios we would never see in the real world.
My all time favorite video is when he introduced the Grinelli Thrust Vector F-22 which is the F-22 he flew in this video. This is not an ordinary; it's an F-22 on steroids! It flies faster and turns tighter than a regular F-22 in DCS. If you look at the kill replays in this video and some of the kill replays in some of his other F-22 videos, you can see the difference. Now keep in mind, he doesn't always fly this monster so it's a treat to see him fly it. He's flown it in a few other videos, and he doesn't always say it but when I see it fly, I'm like "AH!!! That's the Grinelli F-22."😂🤪
As mentioned, they said the dog fight was dead in 1965 with the first versions of the F4 Phantom. Later versions reinstalled the 20mm cannon. But then again they wanted to eliminate fighters at one time too, since ICBM was all the rage and they thought long distance bombers would disappear. B52 and TU95 are still around and will be for a long time.
Before Korea people believed Dogfights were obsolete due to the speed of Jets. Before Vietnam people believed Dogfights were obsolete, because of Missiles.
Well...
That missile was probably made in China. 🤣
😂😂😂
That iris t hit was nuts
it is a great day when GS posts eurofighter content c:
Plot armor on that 2nd missile😂
8:06 That is unreal. As a ground observer I might have just assumed they collided with one another. I mean I know you can see them explode before they hit, but unless you had highly zoomed in footage to review you wouldn't necessarily notice that.
Toxic is the best DCS dogfighter I've ever had the experience of watching
The Eurofighter previous victory was basically a short distance dumbfire
Modern Fox-2 missiles are amazing to watch in DCS!
The Raptor should be renamed Skylord.
These are like knife fights: brutal and over quick.
Only the ppl that don’t fly combat say dog fights are dead!
The real ppl know what’s up🫡
GS, you ever consider the fact that combat aircraft from rival nations often fly up close and "observe" each other all the time, for example between Russia and Alaska? Oftentimes it happens at very close range.
What if a fight broke out in a situation like that? Would suck not to be able to dogfight.
The kill from last time was a smigol time style rocket shot
"FOX 2 and he's dead, haha..... oh wait, I'm dead too" :D
6:09 Forgot to turn your burners off during his fox 2 looping on you. Lol
I will say this chrome paint makes the f 22 look a lot better
Guns only, nice, like when Larry Bird shot left handed to challenge himself
Nice job GS! F-22 Raptor vindicated with these rematches!!
I feel that when it comes to dogfighting, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it...! 😊
Cool watching these HOB fights, almost like a dance with survival as it's reward.
How far away was his missile on Iimpact for round 4? because it looked like it was far enough away to me not to do that type of damage but I guess close enough
In the F35 you couldn't lose the Eurofighter. Soon with helmet upgrades, the F22 won't have the total fusion but it will be good.
Irst in dcs:👁️👁️ airst in vtol vr:👨🦯
That thought was thought before, but the soon found out that they (Military) still needed guns with the F/B-4 phantom and they even put pods on the F-106 and a few other gunless fighters
The experts said dog fighting was obsolete in the 1960's with the missles equipped on the F4, and what did the Pilots end up demand to be put back on the F4, a gun.
A gun may not be used all the time but it's insurance
I sub to your yt channel at 95k and now your at 626k subs good for you man
To your point at pilots needing to learn such skills we recently saw that drunk Russian Pilot nearly ram the F16 during a routine intercept mission - so we know that aircraft can get close to each other and if that situation turned into a hot fight (which I also hope never happens) then both sets of pilots would need to know what to do. And it has happened - Gulf of Sidra for example in 1981 when 2 Libyan SU 22s fired on 2 USN F14s during a merge and got shot down for their trouble.
with stealth becoming more prevalent, dogfights will definitely happen again
I wonder if that delta wing of his is depleting all his energy after the first turn?
I love the metallic raptor look
Great aircraft paired with a decent pilot = air domination
Request: Play the tornado F3
11:45 "HAL, open the pod bay doors!"
The six sided sun is interesting.
short take off will mean dispersed assets , never know what's down the road . Dog fight is desperation .
Dogfighting is like fixing bayonets. Still useful. Just in case.
I am a private pilot. No jets or anything I fly aerobatic planes. A Pitts s2a and a yak55m. I’d love to try dcs it looks like a blast
These F-22 paint jobs are nice 🔥
1:41 The missile doesn't know where it is
If anyone remembers they thought dogfighting was dead with the F4 too.
We know how that worked out.
Anyone who says dogfighting is dead didn't learn from Vietnam.
Here's an interesting question I honestly don't know. How does the aim9x get tone while it's stored inside of a missile bay or is it a data link from the raptor just "guessing"?
I would assume that’s one of the classified aspects of the raptor
@GrowlingSidewinder this is probably accurate. Also here's a tid bit of knowledge on the ah64 apache as well. I worked at the facility that builds em. There's a system on the apache called gfas. Stands for ground fire acquisition system. Has sensors on either side of aircraft. When someone fires at the apache or an rpg whatever, these sensors triangulate and automatically slew the gun to where the rounds/rpg came from and all cp/g has to do is identity and pull the trigger.
I could watch the F-22 all day long.
We are training for dogfight cause you never know when alien's gonna invade
What would a REAL merge look like? I doubt they'd just fly straight and level towards each other without sending any ordnance down range
You're a little better than most. Should set up a World Tournament
i look at it like this,it's better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have one!
I'm back to once again request the YF-23 vs Su-57 dogfight video. It's been a while since we saw the Gray Ghost at work.
i love your vids man keep it up
Are missile defects a thing in DCS?
It's happened before in a couple of his videos.
So much for your statement of "dominance" GS. You got smoked once. Should've been twice. You were lucky man.
In round 4, I wonder if you were so close when your 9x hit him, you flew into its frag pattern....
This is what I was waiting for
The more things change, the more they stay the same
0:42 too close for guns going for missiles
The Dogfighting is dead mindset is the same mistake the US government made in Vietnam not putting a gun on the F4!! It's not dead it's just not used as often, but happens when you run out of missiles and there is still and enemy to kill. It's better to have the skill and not need it than need it and not have it!
Prepare for ramming speed😮
How much of the outcome is the result of missile technology as opposed to the plane or pilot?
I swear that f22 cockpit looks more like dark like there's more like contrast, wasn't there like a lot of the color gray? It looks like the gray was replaced with black
Starscream f-22 vs silver f-22: guns only pls
Soooo did round 4 end in a side arm shoot out floating back to the ground?
Can we get a duel team match up? Using the best fighters on the rosters. Both sides can have gta and awaks which can be targeted. Air to air support is up to each side.