I’m 66, ride a full fat Orange E-bike, love the assistance to a degree. I use the assistance levels like a 3x and still like a workout. Help on uphills use turbo etc,like dropping into the granny ring , you get my meaning?? I still like a good workout with assistance if I need it. We’re riding bikes like the good old days with a bit of help. Who cares about the speed to the top. Just ride the bugger and have fun. I am !!
65 and loving my recently purchased 18.5 kg levo sl. Means I can keep up with my younger, fitter riding buddies. Range not an issue. Each to their own eh. 😁
Tbh my Levo SL is still 18,5 kg with a Vivid/ Lyrik Ultimate and Conti tyres. Would never again ride a rig that’s more than 20 kg, but count me in for a race for energy density. Also - most people I meet with their full power bikes don’t even put in enough power to get the full full motor support.
Yeah there are some hard truths in this topic. Funny thing is the Heckler SL I have is the best bike I have ever owned. The handling and enjoyment of riding is just phenomenal and there is no hint of buyers remorse which I feel my fellow eBike riders who try it have when they have to throw a leg back over their full power/full weight bikes and then get left in the dust downhill. It's a self shuttle bike and for me and the motor power is fine but a bit more battery would be welcomed. All of that is forgotten as it comes alive as soon as you head downhill as a mini Enduro/DH bike. However with all of those benefits there is a bitter taste knowing of the forced obsolesce of the bike that by many measures is already obsolete and stuck with a motor plagued with reliability and service issues that seems to have never been intended to have been used in a mountain bike and without any reasonable service network to support it. I can't see Fazua and some others being being around in 3 years time and many of these light eBikes are stuck with no upgrade path leaving them virtually unsaleable even if theirs motors or batteries are working trouble free (unlikely). If either of those are in need of replacement you might as well throw the bike in the bin as no one will buy a bike that they need to spend $1,500+ on just to return to serviceable order and thats assuming you can get the parts in 3-5 years time. To make matters the bike companies are not selling frame only options so if I hypothetically wanted to upgrade I have to pay full price for another whole bike kitted out with lousy parts that will again be close to unsalable 3 years later. At least if there were frame only options there would be some better costed options for those that wear bikes out etc. eMTB has to be close to joining Polo as the sport of Kings :-) To make a point however the caution you are giving applies to all e-Bike categories. Just look at the Amflow as an example of a new entry and it pretty much making any other full power eBike currently pointless in the same way you are suggesting to the lightweight bikes. I'd be pretty uneasy buying a full power eBike atm that is for sure that doesn't have DJI like specs from both a motor and technical integration perspective.
It's really shame that Heckler SL is dragged down by the unreliable motor. A lot of people (myself included) are going to Vala partly because of that reason.
I think you are right. All the existing motor manufacturers just got a big wake up call. The fact DJI could produce a full fat system in a smaller, lighter package and beat the competition on every metric proves the industry needs a shake up
@@TheBikeStudio Well to be fair to Fazua and TQ are still lighter but only with smaller batteries. The bosch is only just lighter even with a 400Wh battery. DJI has certainly given everyone a wake up though and given their track record of pumping out drones I don't doubt they are already working on a smaller version with maybe slightly less power.
I think there's still room for light ebikes, although have to admit that categories have started to mix a little bit. But light eMTBs have smaller and lighter motors and batteries compared to full fat systems. You can't deny physics. This makes it possible to have a stealthy frame design and overall lighter bike weight. Every kilo counts, especially for weight that's up there in downtube. There are also a lot of purists who want a low powered natural feeling ebike. Plus there are other categories like gravel and e-road where those lightweight systems are needed.
Bosch should bump SX power to 70nm and CX to 100nm. I feel this would be a sweet spot. Also brands should be selling sl emtb’s at a lower cost than full power. The sl motors and batteries are quite a bit cheaper and typically less features/technology.
I've pretty much never needed full power. Happy to use 1,2 and sometimes 3 out of 5 bars of power on my GF's Giant Talon E+. What I want to see are mid-power motors paired with long range batteries - for big days, bikepacking and bike touring.
I made the decision with my first EMTB over 12 months ago and after many reviews settled on the Orbea Rise. Luckily for me it was the EP801 DU which enabled me to my luck 4 months later to access the full power. Best of both worlds.
There is still a big difference between the 18.5kg Specialized Levo SL (with range extender) and 22kg Whyte image the difference between an enduro bike of 14kg and 17.5kg on how the bike rides. Not everyone wants high power and ride all day. The sl bike is more for a ride of a couple of hours without technical climbs. If you accept this it is the best of both worlds - more laps on a bike that feels like a heavy enduro bike, but not all day! I would like to see a head to head of a light sl vs a mid weight full power and which one is more fun where.
Just another great video! I believe you are 100% correct that a burlier all mountain rig with the likes of a Avinox motor or soon to be game catching up TQ, Shimano, and maybe the new Levo Brose system will be the standard. You better believe the others players have been full speed on this concept post Eurobike. Remember the old days when pure human powered Enduro rigs were judged by their ability to also climb as the standard? This might explain the popularity of the VPP platforms, but there was always a compromise. Become too efficient a climber, then you suffered compromise on the downhills, or vice versa. Now by adding some real useable power, then the uphill is solved, and we can take on some more travel, and beef up from the frame flex of a compromised pedal bike. You had better believe Trek is rethinking Fuel EXE bike. Who would buy this bike knowing it's basically outdated. The Levo SL will get more power and they had better accomplish this soon. If you wanted the perfect bike?? Whyte Elyte with the DJI Avinox system. Imagine this bike with that motor and 600 or 800wh battery. They could not build them fast enough.
I own a Voima and a Troy e-lite. I really enjoy both for their intended purpose. The Troy is more fun on a day to day basis. I will say that with the range enxtender it is the same weight as lighter full fat ebikes. It does have me thinking my next emtb will be a modular unit like the Vala and turn down the tune when not riding with other ebikes.
I think there will be a market for mid assist/light ebikes in the future, but the demand will get smaller. Not everybody wants the power of a full power ebike. I for one, don't want it at all. I just purchased a new EMTB with Fazua Ride 60 and have zero remorse. It has enough power and range to get me through my longer rides. It also provides enough assistance for me to keep up with my less fit friends on their full power ebikes. Granted, I'm sweating a little more, but I'm not out on the trails to ride a motorcycle. I still want to get a workout.
Nice vide brother. Great job as always. I have two free ride e bikes full fat and 180 to 190 travel. These work good from street to trail to all day ski lift bike park. One EP8 and one Bosch. The lightweight options are not quite tried and true and have a ton of issues. I am hearing they over heat too. I just have a battery and a motor and everything else is analog. Yeah the extra weight helps you if anything.
My gen1 Kenevo SL is the perfect bike park emtb. 35 kms of ups and downs and me (69) and the bike are done. Also have the Levo Gen 3 Pro full power for stage racing and big days out … sweet ride. Finally there is my Creo SL gravel bike…. the Big S brand has been good to me. 😁
I barely used trail, let alone turbo mode, on a 24+kg shimano ep6 bike, the higher modes are more difficult to control in demanding terrain and dont reward putting more power in yourself at all. Although later might be due to being a ep6 with a rather quick drop in torque and power after around 70rpm, my average cadence is around 75rpm. Since i dont need to win any races, cant legally use motor support above 25km/h and am accompanied by other light support bikes or full power in eco mode most of the time i dont feel the need for a bigger motor. Turbo on a bosch sx already feels like the motor is carrying you, even if you dont put much effort in it. Thats why i chose a bosch sx powered bike, a mondraker dune rr to be exact. I personally doubt that any full power bike in the next few years will reach a 19,5kg weight with a 170mm fork, enduro wheels and tyres. Sub 19kg if you swap some carbon wheels and go tubeless. Although i would have never bought it at its full price, but i cant complain at all for 6500 euros. I also considered some full power bikes, namely a orbea wild, but only due to the lack of long travel bosch sx powered bikes below 20kgs (how did merida manage to get over 21kg on their e onesixty sl even with flex stays and fixed battery??), the reliability of a fazua as well as absence of a range extender after 2 years were a deal breaker, and the tq has not enough power to provide its 50nm above 60 rpm. Haven't regretted my choice until now and would do it again
California just firmed up electric bicycle definitions denying the DJI Amflow the legal privileges of electric bicycles. A TQ powered Trek Fuel Exe on the other hand enjoys all the privileges of even unpowered bikes because no one can tell it is an ebike. That is the future of lightweight ebikes, stealth.
@@chrismartin4341not necessarily the law was mainly targeting surrons. The law doesn't recognize bikes with over 750wh as ebikes. Im pretty sure DJI could just do a region preset and limit the max watts to comply.
One thing I will say after riding multiple full fat ebikes and currently owning a 2023 Yeti 160e, I will NEVER buy a 50lb e-bike again (mine is 52.5lb). I just don't enjoy the excess weight. If I have the energy and time, I always grab my acoustic bike as it is much, much, much more fun to ride and rides faster and easier going downhill which is what I care about. I also rarely leave eco mode on my 160e unless the climb is super steep. Eco feels pretty natural (I did boost mine to 35nm), but Trail or Boost does not. I don't like the unnatural feel and delayed propulsion. I was super pumped on the Moterra SL, but the super long chainstay and uber slack geo just never felt good to me although there were some things I liked about it. I'd happily trade my 160e out for a midweight Trek Slash+ or SC Heckler SL that have the geo I like and are 7-10lbs lighter than my 160e, even with their reduced power, because I don't want or need 1000w. I'd never use it or want it.
That’s exactly what people want! Light weight full power motor and big battery! And it’s funny if you think about how dh bikes are also looking to add weight and get away from the super light builds also!
That derailleur makes it a relic. Gearbox been around about 10 years or more and we're still on cheaply made derailleur while being charged more than a washer and dryer combined😂😂😂😂
when the buyers, who really make some km, have to replace drivetrain very 1000km ,everybody they agree 50-70nm are enough.. so around 17-18kg/400wh & 19-20kg /600wh are the way to go
im 65 and ride a Ex-e TQ and can't see why people need more power.. I truly believe the super power bikes will be band from trail centers as they will cut the tracks to shreds..
I think both would still exist; only the weight and motor power would change. For example, if we could have a Turbo Levo SL with 60Nm of torque and a weight of no more than 17kg, and full-power e-bikes under 20kg, that would be ideal. Imagine if DJI released a light-assist e-bike with 60Nm of torque and a 500Wh battery-the bike would probably weigh less than 17kg.
I did think that after this video i have a decision what bike i should choose, but not so easy..😂 If you could have a slash+ 9.7 for the same price of turbo levo comp alloy, whitch one would you prefer?
They are just now coming into the power range of home built ebike kits. The prices they want for these bikes is crazy. But what is more crazy is when someone is willing to pay that much. What you get is a bike frame that can only use a specific motor and battery. It is amazing what people will buy into. Home built with the better torque sensing mid drive kits are the way to go. Your choice of frame and battery. Never seen a factory bike that could out perform a top notch home build. Weight is not even a factory on e mtn. bikes. A little heavier bike rails the down hill with more authority. The power makes up for the weight on a climb. You are only talking about a slight bit of weight. Think about the extra weight the average ride is carrying on his body. Fat, heavy clothes, water and tools. Pro racers carry nothing but their selves. Recreational rides should remember that they are rec. riders. Just that.
Lightweight ebike is oxymoron, mine is 20kg and when battery is dead you cannot pedal it it is heavy as tank. If you want a light bike for city and excercise get sub 10kg gravel for 1/10th of the price like i did. Also if you want real power then just get a Surron an actual motor.
Did they ever have a point, just marketing hype trying to create yet another category, if they are / were so good then why is every option designed with a range extender thus upsetting weight distribution and increasing the overall weight of a design they spent all that R&D money on in creating an unnecessary category.
A little extra weight near the bottom can actually be a good thing. Most range extenders mount low and near the center of the bike (quite close to the bottom bracket, or motor if you will). It disturbs the handling much less than having a larger battery extending higher and farther forward.
Because you don't need to have the extender every single time you go for a ride and you get more of an MTB rather than motorbike feel. If you go through entire battery every single and live in mountains you are better off with full powered EMTB, but a lot of people live with nothing more than a 50-100m hill and lightweight option does the job quite alright there
You're barking up an entirely different tree. I've ridden full power emtbs, and in tech riding, they can be a handful, as there's really case to be made where too much power is a hindrance, instead of the dream (OK, I'm in michigan where we don't have endless mountain climbs to get to the 5 minutes of singletrack downhill). I'm a Fazua R60 riding Transition Relay, and the R60 feels like it has WAY more power than the TQ equipped Trek EX-E (I've ridden those and you must cane them extra hard to get anywhere). As many have not ridden this system, it's impossible to see how a lower power motor, with great power management can really punch way above it's literal 'weight'. More power can really be a pain in the arse in technical riding as you can only put so much power down before spinning the tire.....
Makes no sense for eMTB manufacturers to charge double for a smaller motor and smaller battery. I wonder if car manufacturers like Ford and Tesla will start charging more for a less powerful motor and less range (smaller batteries). Yeah, they won't. The bike industry seems like a grift sometimes.
Why the video? Just look at the comments, it’s a contentious subject. I’m honestly still on the fence. I need to spend some time on an SX powered bike I think
You do know there are people buying bikes that dont have a motor at all right? Using the $/nm ratio is pointless. People literally spend $10-$12,000 for a bike without assist. There’s a market for everything. I have 2 e-bikes and 2 regular and they all get ridden each one is different experience.
Video is full of assumptions. Maybe go out and ask some SL riders. I own a dull power and SL. My full power is 160x170 enduro and my SL is 150x150. Claiming SL is dead is just like saying everyone on meat powered bikes should ride an enduro bike....
My slash+ is an absolute weapon. I’m not racing up hills but I can get up anything. Even on boost the 580wh battery gets me over 2 hours of climbing even on full power.It’s a mountain bikers e bike. I no longer use my Rail. I can kill the battery in that in less than 1.0 hrs if I’m ramming turbo.
I hope the distinction between “light” and “full power” disappears as the innovation continues and the fatties loose weight. Many of us want the feel of an analog bike, with some assistance to go further and longer…some of us have legs twice (or more) the age of average TH-cam creators.
I’m 66, ride a full fat Orange E-bike, love the assistance to a degree. I use the assistance levels like a 3x and still like a workout. Help on uphills use turbo etc,like dropping into the granny ring , you get my meaning?? I still like a good workout with assistance if I need it. We’re riding bikes like the good old days with a bit of help. Who cares about the speed to the top. Just ride the bugger and have fun. I am !!
65 and loving my recently purchased 18.5 kg levo sl. Means I can keep up with my younger, fitter riding buddies. Range not an issue. Each to their own eh. 😁
Tbh my Levo SL is still 18,5 kg with a Vivid/ Lyrik Ultimate and Conti tyres. Would never again ride a rig that’s more than 20 kg, but count me in for a race for energy density.
Also - most people I meet with their full power bikes don’t even put in enough power to get the full full motor support.
which motor you have 1.1 or 1.2?
@@winters3 1.2, levo sl 2
Yeah there are some hard truths in this topic. Funny thing is the Heckler SL I have is the best bike I have ever owned. The handling and enjoyment of riding is just phenomenal and there is no hint of buyers remorse which I feel my fellow eBike riders who try it have when they have to throw a leg back over their full power/full weight bikes and then get left in the dust downhill. It's a self shuttle bike and for me and the motor power is fine but a bit more battery would be welcomed. All of that is forgotten as it comes alive as soon as you head downhill as a mini Enduro/DH bike. However with all of those benefits there is a bitter taste knowing of the forced obsolesce of the bike that by many measures is already obsolete and stuck with a motor plagued with reliability and service issues that seems to have never been intended to have been used in a mountain bike and without any reasonable service network to support it. I can't see Fazua and some others being being around in 3 years time and many of these light eBikes are stuck with no upgrade path leaving them virtually unsaleable even if theirs motors or batteries are working trouble free (unlikely). If either of those are in need of replacement you might as well throw the bike in the bin as no one will buy a bike that they need to spend $1,500+ on just to return to serviceable order and thats assuming you can get the parts in 3-5 years time. To make matters the bike companies are not selling frame only options so if I hypothetically wanted to upgrade I have to pay full price for another whole bike kitted out with lousy parts that will again be close to unsalable 3 years later. At least if there were frame only options there would be some better costed options for those that wear bikes out etc. eMTB has to be close to joining Polo as the sport of Kings :-) To make a point however the caution you are giving applies to all e-Bike categories. Just look at the Amflow as an example of a new entry and it pretty much making any other full power eBike currently pointless in the same way you are suggesting to the lightweight bikes. I'd be pretty uneasy buying a full power eBike atm that is for sure that doesn't have DJI like specs from both a motor and technical integration perspective.
It's really shame that Heckler SL is dragged down by the unreliable motor. A lot of people (myself included) are going to Vala partly because of that reason.
I think you are right. All the existing motor manufacturers just got a big wake up call. The fact DJI could produce a full fat system in a smaller, lighter package and beat the competition on every metric proves the industry needs a shake up
@@TheBikeStudio Well to be fair to Fazua and TQ are still lighter but only with smaller batteries. The bosch is only just lighter even with a 400Wh battery. DJI has certainly given everyone a wake up though and given their track record of pumping out drones I don't doubt they are already working on a smaller version with maybe slightly less power.
I think there's still room for light ebikes, although have to admit that categories have started to mix a little bit. But light eMTBs have smaller and lighter motors and batteries compared to full fat systems. You can't deny physics. This makes it possible to have a stealthy frame design and overall lighter bike weight. Every kilo counts, especially for weight that's up there in downtube. There are also a lot of purists who want a low powered natural feeling ebike. Plus there are other categories like gravel and e-road where those lightweight systems are needed.
Riding a 2018 focus jam 2 had it since new, its probably the first full powered SL e bike, just over 20kg
Bosch should bump SX power to 70nm and CX to 100nm. I feel this would be a sweet spot. Also brands should be selling sl emtb’s at a lower cost than full power. The sl motors and batteries are quite a bit cheaper and typically less features/technology.
I find the CX 85 Nm sufficient, I don't even use turbo. More power is hell on the drivetrain and sooner replacement.
I've pretty much never needed full power. Happy to use 1,2 and sometimes 3 out of 5 bars of power on my GF's Giant Talon E+.
What I want to see are mid-power motors paired with long range batteries - for big days, bikepacking and bike touring.
I made the decision with my first EMTB over 12 months ago and after many reviews settled on the Orbea Rise. Luckily for me it was the EP801 DU which enabled me to my luck 4 months later to access the full power. Best of both worlds.
I think you won at life 🤣
There is still a big difference between the 18.5kg Specialized Levo SL (with range extender) and 22kg Whyte image the difference between an enduro bike of 14kg and 17.5kg on how the bike rides. Not everyone wants high power and ride all day. The sl bike is more for a ride of a couple of hours without technical climbs. If you accept this it is the best of both worlds - more laps on a bike that feels like a heavy enduro bike, but not all day! I would like to see a head to head of a light sl vs a mid weight full power and which one is more fun where.
check out the Loam Wolf group test of 11 SL e-bikes, including the full power Rise LT, if you haven't already
Just another great video! I believe you are 100% correct that a burlier all mountain rig with the likes of a Avinox motor or soon to be game catching up TQ, Shimano, and maybe the new Levo Brose system will be the standard. You better believe the others players have been full speed on this concept post Eurobike. Remember the old days when pure human powered Enduro rigs were judged by their ability to also climb as the standard? This might explain the popularity of the VPP platforms, but there was always a compromise. Become too efficient a climber, then you suffered compromise on the downhills, or vice versa. Now by adding some real useable power, then the uphill is solved, and we can take on some more travel, and beef up from the frame flex of a compromised pedal bike. You had better believe Trek is rethinking Fuel EXE bike. Who would buy this bike knowing it's basically outdated. The Levo SL will get more power and they had better accomplish this soon. If you wanted the perfect bike?? Whyte Elyte with the DJI Avinox system. Imagine this bike with that motor and 600 or 800wh battery. They could not build them fast enough.
I own a Voima and a Troy e-lite. I really enjoy both for their intended purpose. The Troy is more fun on a day to day basis. I will say that with the range enxtender it is the same weight as lighter full fat ebikes. It does have me thinking my next emtb will be a modular unit like the Vala and turn down the tune when not riding with other ebikes.
I think there will be a market for mid assist/light ebikes in the future, but the demand will get smaller. Not everybody wants the power of a full power ebike. I for one, don't want it at all. I just purchased a new EMTB with Fazua Ride 60 and have zero remorse. It has enough power and range to get me through my longer rides. It also provides enough assistance for me to keep up with my less fit friends on their full power ebikes. Granted, I'm sweating a little more, but I'm not out on the trails to ride a motorcycle. I still want to get a workout.
Nice vide brother. Great job as always. I have two free ride e bikes full fat and 180 to 190 travel. These work good from street to trail to all day ski lift bike park. One EP8 and one Bosch. The lightweight options are not quite tried and true and have a ton of issues. I am hearing they over heat too. I just have a battery and a motor and everything else is analog. Yeah the extra weight helps you if anything.
I enjoyed the benefits of less weight on the Kenevo SL. Otherwise, I’ll take full fat, sub 23kg any day of the week
@ 👊👊
The Focus Sam2 was 6 years ahead of its time in 2018 , modular battery , 75Nm , fairly light too .
Orbea also
My gen1 Kenevo SL is the perfect bike park emtb. 35 kms of ups and downs and me (69) and the bike are done. Also have the Levo Gen 3 Pro full power for stage racing and big days out … sweet ride. Finally there is my Creo SL gravel bike…. the Big S brand has been good to me. 😁
Totally agree, I rode the KSL at Bikepark Wales and absolutely loved it
I barely used trail, let alone turbo mode, on a 24+kg shimano ep6 bike, the higher modes are more difficult to control in demanding terrain and dont reward putting more power in yourself at all. Although later might be due to being a ep6 with a rather quick drop in torque and power after around 70rpm, my average cadence is around 75rpm. Since i dont need to win any races, cant legally use motor support above 25km/h and am accompanied by other light support bikes or full power in eco mode most of the time i dont feel the need for a bigger motor. Turbo on a bosch sx already feels like the motor is carrying you, even if you dont put much effort in it. Thats why i chose a bosch sx powered bike, a mondraker dune rr to be exact. I personally doubt that any full power bike in the next few years will reach a 19,5kg weight with a 170mm fork, enduro wheels and tyres. Sub 19kg if you swap some carbon wheels and go tubeless. Although i would have never bought it at its full price, but i cant complain at all for 6500 euros. I also considered some full power bikes, namely a orbea wild, but only due to the lack of long travel bosch sx powered bikes below 20kgs (how did merida manage to get over 21kg on their e onesixty sl even with flex stays and fixed battery??), the reliability of a fazua as well as absence of a range extender after 2 years were a deal breaker, and the tq has not enough power to provide its 50nm above 60 rpm. Haven't regretted my choice until now and would do it again
California just firmed up electric bicycle definitions denying the DJI Amflow the legal privileges of electric bicycles. A TQ powered Trek Fuel Exe on the other hand enjoys all the privileges of even unpowered bikes because no one can tell it is an ebike. That is the future of lightweight ebikes, stealth.
I forgot about the attitude to e-bikes in the States. That’s a very good point
That’s cos the yanks have an issue with DJI
Not the bike
@@chrismartin4341not necessarily the law was mainly targeting surrons. The law doesn't recognize bikes with over 750wh as ebikes. Im pretty sure DJI could just do a region preset and limit the max watts to comply.
One thing I will say after riding multiple full fat ebikes and currently owning a 2023 Yeti 160e, I will NEVER buy a 50lb e-bike again (mine is 52.5lb). I just don't enjoy the excess weight. If I have the energy and time, I always grab my acoustic bike as it is much, much, much more fun to ride and rides faster and easier going downhill which is what I care about. I also rarely leave eco mode on my 160e unless the climb is super steep. Eco feels pretty natural (I did boost mine to 35nm), but Trail or Boost does not. I don't like the unnatural feel and delayed propulsion. I was super pumped on the Moterra SL, but the super long chainstay and uber slack geo just never felt good to me although there were some things I liked about it. I'd happily trade my 160e out for a midweight Trek Slash+ or SC Heckler SL that have the geo I like and are 7-10lbs lighter than my 160e, even with their reduced power, because I don't want or need 1000w. I'd never use it or want it.
Weight is just a number and means nothing!
@@asifitmatters1it affects the feeling of the bike
What bike would you get to replace a Nukeproof megawatt Elite????
Depends on budget
@TheBikeStudio around 4k
That’s exactly what people want! Light weight full power motor and big battery! And it’s funny if you think about how dh bikes are also looking to add weight and get away from the super light builds also!
Rode enduro motorcycles for 60 yrs. A little more weight helps the bike feel more planted. You can get to a point that the light weight feels flighty.
Back in the day downhill bikes were very heavy and no motor (just saying )
It’s all marketing Bollox just pick what you want ride it and enjoy it
Horses were also once a great way to get around (just saying)
That derailleur makes it a relic. Gearbox been around about 10 years or more and we're still on cheaply made derailleur while being charged more than a washer and dryer combined😂😂😂😂
The MGU is the future, we’re just not there yet in my opinion
when the buyers, who really make some km, have to replace drivetrain very 1000km ,everybody they agree 50-70nm are enough.. so around 17-18kg/400wh & 19-20kg /600wh are the way to go
im 65 and ride a Ex-e TQ and can't see why people need more power.. I truly believe the super power bikes will be band from trail centers as they will cut the tracks to shreds..
I think both would still exist; only the weight and motor power would change. For example, if we could have a Turbo Levo SL with 60Nm of torque and a weight of no more than 17kg, and full-power e-bikes under 20kg, that would be ideal. Imagine if DJI released a light-assist e-bike with 60Nm of torque and a 500Wh battery-the bike would probably weigh less than 17kg.
That’s a good point. I love the idea of a Turbo Levo SL 🤩
I did think that after this video i have a decision what bike i should choose, but not so easy..😂
If you could have a slash+ 9.7 for the same price of turbo levo comp alloy, whitch one would you prefer?
For me, Turbo Levo
They are just now coming into the power range of home built ebike kits. The prices they want for these bikes is crazy. But what is more crazy is when someone is willing to pay that much. What you get is a bike frame that can only use a specific motor and battery. It is amazing what people will buy into. Home built with the better torque sensing mid drive kits are the way to go. Your choice of frame and battery. Never seen a factory bike that could out perform a top notch home build. Weight is not even a factory on e mtn. bikes. A little heavier bike rails the down hill with more authority. The power makes up for the weight on a climb. You are only talking about a slight bit of weight. Think about the extra weight the average ride is carrying on his body. Fat, heavy clothes, water and tools. Pro racers carry nothing but their selves. Recreational rides should remember that they are rec. riders. Just that.
Lightweight ebike is oxymoron, mine is 20kg and when battery is dead you cannot pedal it it is heavy as tank. If you want a light bike for city and excercise get sub 10kg gravel for 1/10th of the price like i did. Also if you want real power then just get a Surron an actual motor.
I’d consider a Caterham to be a lightweight car, even though the thing is still pretty heavy. It’s all relative
Did they ever have a point, just marketing hype trying to create yet another category, if they are / were so good then why is every option designed with a range extender thus upsetting weight distribution and increasing the overall weight of a design they spent all that R&D money on in creating an unnecessary category.
A little extra weight near the bottom can actually be a good thing. Most range extenders mount low and near the center of the bike (quite close to the bottom bracket, or motor if you will). It disturbs the handling much less than having a larger battery extending higher and farther forward.
Because you don't need to have the extender every single time you go for a ride and you get more of an MTB rather than motorbike feel. If you go through entire battery every single and live in mountains you are better off with full powered EMTB, but a lot of people live with nothing more than a 50-100m hill and lightweight option does the job quite alright there
Fb marketplace is awash with sl e-bikes only a few months old. I think that’s a sign People are regretting purchases…
Anything less than 45nm is a regrettable decision
20kg . 800watt battery. about 80nm. yeah please
The dream 🤩
You're barking up an entirely different tree. I've ridden full power emtbs, and in tech riding, they can be a handful, as there's really case to be made where too much power is a hindrance, instead of the dream (OK, I'm in michigan where we don't have endless mountain climbs to get to the 5 minutes of singletrack downhill). I'm a Fazua R60 riding Transition Relay, and the R60 feels like it has WAY more power than the TQ equipped Trek EX-E (I've ridden those and you must cane them extra hard to get anywhere). As many have not ridden this system, it's impossible to see how a lower power motor, with great power management can really punch way above it's literal 'weight'. More power can really be a pain in the arse in technical riding as you can only put so much power down before spinning the tire.....
That’s what trail mode is for
Makes no sense for eMTB manufacturers to charge double for a smaller motor and smaller battery. I wonder if car manufacturers like Ford and Tesla will start charging more for a less powerful motor and less range (smaller batteries). Yeah, they won't. The bike industry seems like a grift sometimes.
Tech advances will destroy these presumptuous category’s naturally. I won’t ever buy by category anyway, would you? Which leads to “why the video?” 😂
Why the video? Just look at the comments, it’s a contentious subject. I’m honestly still on the fence. I need to spend some time on an SX powered bike I think
You do know there are people buying bikes that dont have a motor at all right? Using the $/nm ratio is pointless. People literally spend $10-$12,000 for a bike without assist. There’s a market for everything. I have 2 e-bikes and 2 regular and they all get ridden each one is different experience.
Maybe I should have been clearer on comparing weight to power output. That to me is the variable that makes lightweights outdated
Video is full of assumptions. Maybe go out and ask some SL riders.
I own a dull power and SL. My full power is 160x170 enduro and my SL is 150x150.
Claiming SL is dead is just like saying everyone on meat powered bikes should ride an enduro bike....
I agree, everyone should ride an enduro bike 🤣
@TheBikeStudio Why do they still make XC, Trail and Downhill bikes then???????????????????????
22 kg is not a lightweight bike. I would say that 19kg is the maximum acceptable weight or me
True
My slash+ is an absolute weapon. I’m not racing up hills but I can get up anything. Even on boost the 580wh battery gets me over 2 hours of climbing even on full power.It’s a mountain bikers e bike. I no longer use my Rail. I can kill the battery in that in less than 1.0 hrs if I’m ramming turbo.
It looks like a really appealing bike tbh
@@TheBikeStudioloving it. A little maintenance heavy but such a fun bike. It could have even less power and I’d still love it.
I hope the distinction between “light” and “full power” disappears as the innovation continues and the fatties loose weight. Many of us want the feel of an analog bike, with some assistance to go further and longer…some of us have legs twice (or more) the age of average TH-cam creators.
In this case that would make your legs 74
SL is a dead duck.
Not everyone wants a full power ebike.
Even if it’s the same weight as a lightweight?
Not only they pointless now they were pointless when they were introduced
🤣
Only if you are looking for a motorbike in an MTB pachage. If you like to ride MTBs and do some work yourself they are the way to go