What a grump UG was. If this is liberation, I call bullshit... He didn't listen to anyone. He yelled and screamed out all of his concepts... He love's his own opinions and his students arrogantly smoke and nod yes to everything that comes out of his mouth...Katie is still helping thousands and I say actions speech ten times louder than words....
Deb Dobbin Katie would be the first one to tell you that there are really no people here and there is no real suffering in the world. UG was the real deal. Note: he had no students. There was no editor or translator there. You being glued to a "you" only can see UG within the context of another.
Deb Dobbin You're right sister. He a goddamn fool taking bout how there ain't no such thing as truth and then talking for a damn hour about what he think is true! We got words for people like that.
Ferdinand Alexander And furddermore your man spend a damn hour how he don't understand this and he don't understand that. Well, he don't understand cause all he do is listen to his own damn self talk. He don't give no one else a chance. Course he don't understand nothing. He think he the shit. When you think you the shit all you understand is shit. You see that boy? And he don't spell Eugene right no way. Walk away with your own saggy ass.
he is also against science, but then says that scientists discovered something. he was contradictory, but i don't know if that had purpose for him, i think not
This was interesting. For anyone not wanting to watch the whole thing here's my take on it: They kind of just talk passed each other, then call each other out, then just reword each other. And then she resigns to the fact that he's an impulsive talker and deconstructionist, and lets him talk but occasionally tries to ask him about his assertions, which he quickly denies he's made any. Favorite 3 parts: 1.He calls her work and her words "gimmicks" 16:58 2.She tells him that he's talking as though he's "in an exclusive club." 29:38 3.Ending conversation where Katie gets in an insightful jab at him: 48:15 Interviewer: You are basically telling the same story, that it is all stories... Krishnamurti: Why should I deny you the privilege of putting things that way? BK: Because you do!
He asks, 'Why should I deny you the privilege of putting things that way', which is his usual dismissive tone towards everything. So she says, "Because you do" as in, because you DO deny me the privilege of putting things this way. That's what he always does, MrDerogative. Krishnamurti only ignores, corrrects or dismisses other peoples comments. And she was poking fun at him and calling him out, the same way he was by calling her 'Inquiry" a gimmick. They were very frank with each other and I appreciate that. Though it was a very awkward exchange. Byron Katie is a clever woman, who has done something very special with her inquiry method. She may not be as mysterious and aloof as Krishnamurti, or as imperturbable, but she is much easier for me to relate to than him.
Thanks for the summary. By some of his comments, I suspect UG was "stuck in the absolute" just as the "there is nothing to do" crowd are today. Of course that is true from the absolute perspective, but useless in the relative. This is a very difficult state to get anyone out of.
The thing is, we all hear here different stories that everyone identifies with them. I think, instead of judging these people, each of us can simply try what these people are offer and find out what works best for everyone.
"you" is a thought. you cannot look at anything without thought. What is exists without thought. the body functions, life is, without thought. thought is a cultural superimposition on what is.
"Effectiveness is the measure of truth". There are so many testimonials which can be found online from people who discover that doing The Work is liberating their mind and healing their relationships. The best way to know anything is to check it out for yourself.
Gaby In Oz Effective to one is ineffective to another and thus it is not a measurement of truth. If there is any such thing as truth surely it cannot be measured. You interpret and translate what you see through the filter that has been put into you and arrive at the conclusion that somethingis effective. That doesn't make it so.
***** That which "you" accept is not necessarily wise and surely not necessarily truth. Is there any such thing as truth? It's but another concept an interpretation. How do you decide what is truth and what is not? Through the movement of thought and knowledge that is there. In the absence of that even the word truth has no value at all.
***** That's interpretation through the use of thought and the thinking mechanism. Indeed it is thinking. There is no personal perspective and thus no "each of us". I make no claims of any kind and have no view that I'm trying to win anyone over to. Take it or leave it I couldn't care less.
***** It is thought that says there is thought. Most thoughts are about thought so I don't claim to know. I know nothing and perhaps not even that. Is there such a thing as "ego"? Who says so? What says so? It's part of the movement of knowledge. It is thinking that tells you there is a you. Sorry, there's no escape, no way out. You as you know yourself are inseparable from thought and if thought where to end "you" would end. Do you use one word that is entirely your own? Do you have one thought that is entirely your own? You even experience through language. Do you have one experience that is entirely your own? Where is the individual, so-called "self"? You are free to go on as you choose. It's really all people can do. Replace one belief with another, one system with another, one concept with another and it goes on and on. Thought is a mechanism. In the absence of that mechanism what would be left there'd be no way of knowing. Thought is repsonsbile for the complex structure as it appears today and it continues to add layer after layer. It's only interest is division and continuity. It's a very mechanical thing.
***** Like I said. I don't know anything and perhaps not even that. The rest of what you said is an example of the nature of the mechanism. If you need to accept who you are you clearly don't accept who you are. I have no issue with other people. I don't see how society can be any other way than the way it appears to be. I have no conflict with it at all. As I said you are free to do as you choose. I really sincerely don't care. Good luck! By the way. I never said you were interested in how I view you so that's completely manufactured. Whether something is practical or impractical just your opinion so that's meaningless. I'm not telling you how to see or view anything. People see through the filter of the knowledge that is there otherwise what would they see and how would then know what they see? Again, good luck!
When truth is mentioned U.G. goes straight to his own philosophy without asking about Byron Katies system. But BKs system - like the Buddhas' - is a means to overcome suffering by questioning beliefs that limit and restrict ones sense of what is real. It does not say this or that is real at all. Like the Buddha, she leaves that open. To my mind that is because if there is a truth it can only be known by direct experience and not by accepting a verbal declaration.
I love Byron Katie and her work. It saved my life. She was trying to connect with this man in the video but he was so long winded and couldn’t even get to the point.
damn it took almost 12 years maybe but all this shit came full god damn circle since Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha and the hilarious thing is that I’m more terrified than ever 😅😅😅
He sure do have a lot of talk and opinions for some guy who says there ain't no such thing as truth! Where I live, if a man say he don't believe in truth, he don't spend a damn hour talking about what he thinks is true. Of course he say there's no way there can be any communication. He never shuts his stinkin' hole! Lord Jesus give me strength!
exactly....we have no idea what thought is..no one has ever discovered it..no oner ever will..it seems to be a movement..an arising...you are right life IS
At 16: 58, a marvellous misunderstanding. Byron Katie has just made an attempt to engage the situation by riffing on non-duality concepts, a bit convolutedly. de Ridder then turns to UG with a "So?", and UG responds with "No comment", and immediately adds "a politicians gimmic" - OBVIOUSLY referring to his own "No comment" as a politicians gimmic. But Byron Katie (and possibly others in the room) apparently understands this as a comment on her preceding discourse, i.e. that UG had just labeled it "a politicians gimmic", and responds by asking her question re, "can we know that", and so on... The misunderstanding is never straightened out. UG, triggered by the word "questions", goes off on questions about things like how to get from A to B being the only questions he has any use for, and so on. Eventually he ends up in longwinded spiels about some of his standard topics. Hilarious hiatus.
if she just farted-she would make more sense. she should never have opened her mouth here. Guy with glasses is infinitely more aware of the abyss between himself and UG-so he is on his way to getting it one day. But woman is utterly lost.
There is a Bright Eyes quote that come to mind: "And if you swear that there's no truth and who cares How come you say it like you're right?" Goes for both participants i guess :)
All in all, I'd say there is a total disconnect between Byron Katie and UG in this video, primarily because of UG's lack of interest in actually trying to understand what Byron Katie is trying to say or ask (and don't get me wrong, this is not an endorsement of her, just a reflection on what is going on in the video). He takes single words as triggers for self-indulgent rants on anything they might bring to his mind. He apparently loves to hear himself talk, and takes for granted that he is the one who is to hold forth (as Byron Katie notes at one point, in vain), expounding his various pet theories and opinions, some of which are cringeworthy (and don't get me wrong, some of what he tells of himself in relation to his "calamity" in other videos I have found interesting, i.e. don't construe my comments here as a wholesale dismissal of the man). What gives him license to act in this way is a set of sophistical justifications for why he does not have to listen or care or communicate. Once you have listened to enough of his videos you start hearing a broken record play, and you realize he is just as opinionated as any babu off the street, but far better defended, and with an experience in his baggage the babu may not have. UG ended up in this condition of being invested in opinions on a long track of talking about his calamity after he resolved, in the wake of it, to "tell it like it is"... Spiritual iconoclasm is his brand, which is all good and well because we need more of that than we are getting from people in the know, but I think his impact would have been greater had he delivered it with more distance to his opinions...
He had a lot of misery in his life..plus he did not get the so called enlightenment which he so intensely sought ....he was egoistic...one could make out if you watch some of his videos..the calamity which he talks of was just a figment of his imagination...he was a conman too. Having said that he was the most honest spiritual person i came across...he never claimed enlightenment..nor did he ask anyone to come to him...didnt sit on a platform and gave speeches..didnt found any organisation ....didnt sell his ideology or even wrote books..he is charismatic too
She didn't get it. UG is not experiencing as that would be a divided state. She says she has an interest in union and by doing so she acknowledges a divided state. I don't think UG sees a friendship in the way she sees it. Amazing she continued on with her "work" after meeting with UG but then she's using knowledge in order to experience and the experience solidifies the knowledge. Ther "work" doesn't work because there is no work to be done by anyone or for anyone.
Byron Katie is naive, who's convinced herself she knows something that others don't. She's a clown, like most of these so called gurus or spiritual masters. The reality is what UG is stating. There is nothing more to us then the primate that needs to survive and procreate. The way we do these, is far more advanced and sophisticated compared to other animals, but at its most basic level, there really is no difference. No reason to believe there is more to our lives, then there is for other animals. We refuse to believe that all there is to life at its core, is physical existence in the present moment. We consider this boring, and we need more to keep us interested in life. Those who demand more from life, beyond the physical, will get nothing more then misery.
***** Thats a load of bullshit. Delusion is an experience. It is a delusion to believe that you have been blessed with a direct view of reality, unaffected by learning and attendant emotions. People like you are why any old shit can be sold
MajorCulturalDivide Also that when they do speak, he hasn't listened well enough to understand them. Whereas Katie seems genuintely attentive. She seems to me to be sitting in clarity.
leicbri Yes. She is listening attentively. Whilst the other man constantly interrupts and says that he can't understand her. However before you say you can't understand someone, you first have the obligation to listen. He's a very unconscious man.
She is so dishonest. She set out to do the work with UG, and was looking for a sentence. She couldn't think of one herself (because she was so nervous), and asked her group of friends for a statement. Willem comes up with: you said yesterday, UG is deadly. If she was honest, she would have done the work on that statement, but since it was her own, it would have meant that she had to do the work. Of course she won't go there, in stead she twists it to trying to do the work on: UG exists.
Human beings are funny as hell. I cannot believe that such a meeting as this could create division among people. That fact alone demonstrates how removed from reality they really are. But seriously, though, can U.G. really listen?
UG is expressing as undivided. There is no room for otherness in that. Again, she doesn't get it. There's no separate personal entity there. UG is appears to be expressing through that body that is essentially inseparable from totality or whatever you want to call it.
@@heartchakra2 Who’s trying to understand him? There’s only one All, hence one Self, one Reality, one Truth, one Infinity. UG was nothing more than a puppet of a seeming dream, nothing more and nothing less. Byron Katie appears to be a character that emphasizes loving what is while always pointing to that which is-not.
I totally understand ug ,has nothing to offer to the person because questions come from answers already known . while bk is trying to sell something clearly..
Haha, true. Normally she is the one who is in control and people stutter in her presence and listen to what she is saying without much questioning of it. I actually feel sorry for her here. She is trying to appear calm but she was so flustered. I wonder how many other of these spiritual teachers who gulp into microphones and waffle on would have been the same in U.G.'s presence?
There's no such thing as space because there's no way to measure when space ends and non-space begins. There would have to be the space to contain it. Same with infinity. How to measure! That's from the ancient Greeks...don't look at me. : )
+Orroz44 semantics is the very foundation of human enslavement: our word games carried us finally to total destruction, thanks to Jews like Byron Katie and other utter hypocrites and fools
Absolutely, I have no way of knowing, but her work seems successful. But the difference is that U.G. was not saying he could, should or would help anyone; he would not make any claims like that, or provide any answers or systems for you to use. He had nothing to sell.
Byron is discussing from another plane , her slate is, as it can never be , clean! as u.g mentioned very early it seems she's come to confirm the answers she already knows...and she looks like hugely disappointed !
Anna Virovlansky Very true Katie keeps bringing up "The Four Questions", as if you ask the universe these four special questions, the truth will be revealed! UG's response is "There are no questons at all."
jackcarterog001 , i believe he means that there is no "questioner" :))) but before the questioner himself is questioned the emotional "charge" of other issues, that Kaite addresses, is, in my opinion, very necessary.more i study about it more i see that they all point in the same direction in their own unique way. its also possible (from Katie's later video conversations) that for her advanced students its more then the "4questions".
Anna Virovlansky True, but it's just a bit arrogant for her to talk about "The Four Questions" as if UG knows what she's talking about. He doesn't. There's a different quality between the likes of UG and Byron Katie. Katie seems to want validation from UG or at least want others to see that UG has validated her. She looks at UG and sees something there: An enlightened man, an awakened being, etc. UG looks at her and sees just naother human being. Clearly he is not projecting anything onto her and I thinksome people might find that offensive and arrogant of him for not projecting onto her an enlightened being. He responds to her as if she were any other human being on the planet and she cannot do the same to him because she is still projecting onto him. That raises an eyebrow for me.
the difference that i see between them is the issue is there such a thing as awakened being (what you suggest that Katie sees in UG) if there is no separate human being at all (what UG points at). who would get awaken and enlightened? to put it in different words Katie, imho!, tries to unites two into one, and UG points that the separation never happened in the first place.
I am not talking, i am typing. U.G. and BK were not saying or doing the same thing: he did not claim to be able to do anything for you and he did not teach that you need to do anything. He did not have or teach a method or system. He did not charge money to visit him and hang out. Anyone could come and go freely. He never wrote a book or profited from books people wrote about him.
UG talks and talks and talks and says nothing. He philosophizes and theorizes and tries to sound knowledgeable and exclusive. He interrupts and doesn’t connect and doesn’t listen very well. Katie is clear, concise, and full of truth. She wants to help people wake up. It’s not about her. With UG, you can tell it’s all about him. I think he’s threatened by her because she’s the real deal whereas he’s just posturing.
Why don't they all just shut up? That is the only logical conclusion of their own views, there is no point in talking due to all talk being an outcome of social conditioning and personal experience. It's like Byron Katie's process, it is pointless as it just revolves around itself, rather than awareness deepening, it remains superficial as it is thought looking at itself via reflection. Thought cannot lead beyond itself as it is merely memory and as such of limited scope.
I want to know if any one ended up in bed together after this epic discussion!! I would have definitely!! Anyway UG is the only person so far I can call my alliance when I am alone...Because I am animal!! at least to put it mildly I am closer to animal than to God!!
oh! now I get it that this is her "work". It reminds me of est. there is nothing new under the sun. I really don't know anything about her except that she visited U.G. a couple of times and then claimed that he was her "great friend."
What does Byron Katie say here?: 42:34 ...?... speaking of it ...?... that your value system and I can't hear that it is. 47:46 U.G. If there is someone to talk to here, I would say it is ...?... with you again. 48:00 That was just a hope of ...?...
Silly rabbits...U.G. was an ornery old bastard and he's not gettin' what she's puttin' down but ultimately they are saying the same things and speaking from the same place. In all ten directions of the universe there is but one truth, when we see clearly all the great teachings are the same. This is a funny conversation because U.G. isn't used to listening.
The only place that they both are speaking from is the lack of understanding of hwat the hell she is talking about: 30:35 "I don't know. I don't get what you are saying" - UG "I didn't either" - Byron Katie
Joe Bragg I +1'd you by accident. Of course I get it, that's why I said what I just said. The real question is: Do you get it? Do you get that Byron Katie is delusional?
I don't want to engage in too much of this sort of thing but I'd recommend reading, A Thousand Names for Joy if you haven't. I actually don't know if you've read any of Katie's books or U.G.'s for that matter. U.G didn't really have techniques that he prescribed to students because he didn't really believe in techniques. I'm a fan of U.G. but he probably had about zero awakened students. Katie gives the technique of spiritual enquiry. Hers is sort of a modern American update of Ramana Maharshi's, ask yourself, "Who am I?" Adyshanti also speaks often about spiritual enquiry. If you don't connect with Katie's teaching, I would recommend Adya's video's The Basic Teachings Part 1-3. I have found Adya, U.G and Byron Katie to be extremely helpful teachers along the path to personal awakening. Best of luck. www.adyashanti.org/cafedharma/index.php?file=video
Joe Bragg *I actually don't know if you've read any of Katie's books or U.G.'s for that matter.* UG doesn't have any books. You see, he's not interested in promoting himself as some kind of teacher or guru that can help lead you to some "pleasurable state of being". If you didn't already know, UG did not author any of his books and has not copyrighted any of his material: "My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody." - UG Krishnamurti Byron Katie is the exact opposite. She wants to protect her words, keep her teachings teathered to herself. If you take her words and convert them into book formta, she will sue the living hell out of you, I promise you that. *U.G didn't really have techniques that he prescribed to students because he didn't really believe in techniques.* UG didn't have any students. You don't seem to know much about UG. He says over and over again that he cannot help to free anyone from anything because there is NOTHING to be free from. He didn't believe in any techniques, because he knows that no technique can bring you to what is actually there; that the technique is the very thing that is keeping you from that. *'m a fan of U.G. but he probably had about zero awakened students.* The exact same number as Byron Katie *Katie gives the technique of spiritual enquiry.* Which does nothing but keeps the mind going. *Hers is sort of a modern American update of Ramana Maharshi's, ask yourself, "Who am I?"* That means absolutely nothing to me. Ramana was a freightened man. When he attained "enlightenment" as a teenager, he went to the temple, fell to his knees in front of dead, meaningless idols and begged the "gods" to bless him with sainthood as tears pours down his face. What kind of enlightened man would start crying as he begged some statues for some kind of blessing? Ramana's entire life was running away from death and the fact that death is a fact, but in the end, Ramana was weeping on his death bed. REAL death was finally knocking at his door and he could not take it. Trust me on this: Ramana Maharshi wouldn't last a day in your shoes. Not one single day. Don't look up to that man. *Adyshanti also speaks often about spiritual enquiry.* You mean Steven? Let's not feed that man's delusional ego by calling him "Primordial Peace". An enlightened man would never chage his name form Steven to Primordial Peace. *I have found Adya, U.G and Byron Katie to be extremely helpful teachers along the path to personal awakening. Best of luck* I have found Byron Katie to be extremely helpful in showing how unenlightened people like her really are. Like I said, in this video, we see nothing but a woman living in her own world trying to gain approval from UG Krishnamurti. Never in this video do we see UG seeking any kind of approval from Byron Katie. In fact, he REDUCED her to a follower. You can clearly tell the difference between UG and Byron Katie. UG looks at her in EXACTLY the same way he looks at everyone else in the room, but Byron Katie is reduced to looking at UG like eveyone else in the room. I know you don't know UG's 'teachings' very well. What he is saying is not what Byron Katie or "Primordial Peace" is saying.
He is an angry man .... Obscene .... The signs of true Enlightenment are peace, humility and contentment ... he lacks the 3 ... an ugly man on all levels.
@@waiataaroha Your describing him as angry, obscene, and ugly doesn’t seem to indicate any peace, humility, nor contentment. So are you yourself speaking from a place of “Enlightenment” or are you merely projecting certain unpleasant characteristics on this character on a screen named UG?
There is neither honesty nor integrity to the comment you made 5 years ago, and your maintaining the same position 4 years later shows a lack of intelligence. Where is the humility in saying anyone lacks anything or that anyone is far away from something seemingly wonderful? Who has drawn these limiting descriptions and conditions to this so-called Enlightenment?
Then UG follows “I can’t even hear myself’ with “that’s my problem”. That’s so true. She’s trying to connect, and he isn’t even aware enough to hear himself let alone hear her.
BK : " We're saying the same thing, can you hear it "
UG : " I don't even hear what I'm saying "
Epic
ANIM ALIBE
You copied and pasted my comment from 5 years ago. LMAO .
I love Byron Katie
She’s completely full of shit.
Why
What a grump UG was. If this is liberation, I call bullshit... He didn't listen to anyone. He yelled and screamed out all of his concepts... He love's his own opinions and his students arrogantly smoke and nod yes to everything that comes out of his mouth...Katie is still helping thousands and I say actions speech ten times louder than words....
Deb Dobbin Katie would be the first one to tell you that there are really no people here and there is no real suffering in the world. UG was the real deal. Note: he had no students. There was no editor or translator there. You being glued to a "you" only can see UG within the context of another.
Deb Dobbin You're right sister. He a goddamn fool taking bout how there ain't no such thing as truth and then talking for a damn hour about what he think is true! We got words for people like that.
MajorCulturalDivide Way off! Walk away, you'll never get it!
Ferdinand Alexander And furddermore your man spend a damn hour how he don't understand this and he don't understand that. Well, he don't understand cause all he do is listen to his own damn self talk. He don't give no one else a chance. Course he don't understand nothing. He think he the shit. When you think you the shit all you understand is shit. You see that boy? And he don't spell Eugene right no way. Walk away with your own saggy ass.
+Deb Dobbin thats a superficial look u have on him u dont know him well enough
LOL "there is no need for communication." and then he talks for 49 minutes and interrupts everyone else when they try to say something! 😂
he is also against science, but then says that scientists discovered something.
he was contradictory, but i don't know if that had purpose for him, i think not
he is a very disturbed man and idiots thought he had something special so they went and listened to his nonsense.
This was interesting. For anyone not wanting to watch the whole thing here's my take on it: They kind of just talk passed each other, then call each other out, then just reword each other. And then she resigns to the fact that he's an impulsive talker and deconstructionist, and lets him talk but occasionally tries to ask him about his assertions, which he quickly denies he's made any.
Favorite 3 parts:
1.He calls her work and her words "gimmicks" 16:58
2.She tells him that he's talking as though he's "in an exclusive club." 29:38
3.Ending conversation where Katie gets in an insightful jab at him: 48:15
Interviewer: You are basically telling the same story, that it is all stories...
Krishnamurti: Why should I deny you the privilege of putting things that way?
BK: Because you do!
He asks, 'Why should I deny you the privilege of putting things that way', which is his usual dismissive tone towards everything. So she says, "Because you do" as in, because you DO deny me the privilege of putting things this way.
That's what he always does, MrDerogative. Krishnamurti only ignores, corrrects or dismisses other peoples comments. And she was poking fun at him and calling him out, the same way he was by calling her 'Inquiry" a gimmick. They were very frank with each other and I appreciate that.
Though it was a very awkward exchange.
Byron Katie is a clever woman, who has done something very special with her inquiry method. She may not be as mysterious and aloof as Krishnamurti, or as imperturbable, but she is much easier for me to relate to than him.
Matthew McClure Couldn't agree with you more Matthew.
Matthew McClure thanks for this ...love Byron Katie and feel your summary satisfies me and saves time!!
Thanks for the summary. By some of his comments, I suspect UG was "stuck in the absolute" just as the "there is nothing to do" crowd are today. Of course that is true from the absolute perspective, but useless in the relative. This is a very difficult state to get anyone out of.
This is gold 🙏
The thing is, we all hear here different stories that everyone identifies with them.
I think, instead of judging these people, each of us can simply try what these people are offer and find out what works best for everyone.
UG doesn't look at flowers. But we love to listen to this FLOWER!
"you" is a thought. you cannot look at anything without thought. What is exists without thought. the body functions, life is, without thought. thought is a cultural superimposition on what is.
"Effectiveness is the measure of truth". There are so many testimonials which can be found online from people who discover that doing The Work is liberating their mind and healing their relationships. The best way to know anything is to check it out for yourself.
Gaby In Oz Effective to one is ineffective to another and thus it is not a measurement of truth. If there is any such thing as truth surely it cannot be measured. You interpret and translate what you see through the filter that has been put into you and arrive at the conclusion that somethingis effective. That doesn't make it so.
***** That which "you" accept is not necessarily wise and surely not necessarily truth. Is there any such thing as truth? It's but another concept an interpretation. How do you decide what is truth and what is not? Through the movement of thought and knowledge that is there. In the absence of that even the word truth has no value at all.
***** That's interpretation through the use of thought and the thinking mechanism. Indeed it is thinking. There is no personal perspective and thus no "each of us". I make no claims of any kind and have no view that I'm trying to win anyone over to. Take it or leave it I couldn't care less.
***** It is thought that says there is thought. Most thoughts are about thought so I don't claim to know. I know nothing and perhaps not even that. Is there such a thing as "ego"? Who says so? What says so? It's part of the movement of knowledge. It is thinking that tells you there is a you. Sorry, there's no escape, no way out. You as you know yourself are inseparable from thought and if thought where to end "you" would end. Do you use one word that is entirely your own? Do you have one thought that is entirely your own? You even experience through language. Do you have one experience that is entirely your own? Where is the individual, so-called "self"? You are free to go on as you choose. It's really all people can do. Replace one belief with another, one system with another, one concept with another and it goes on and on. Thought is a mechanism. In the absence of that mechanism what would be left there'd be no way of knowing. Thought is repsonsbile for the complex structure as it appears today and it continues to add layer after layer. It's only interest is division and continuity. It's a very mechanical thing.
***** Like I said. I don't know anything and perhaps not even that. The rest of what you said is an example of the nature of the mechanism. If you need to accept who you are you clearly don't accept who you are. I have no issue with other people. I don't see how society can be any other way than the way it appears to be. I have no conflict with it at all. As I said you are free to do as you choose. I really sincerely don't care. Good luck! By the way. I never said you were interested in how I view you so that's completely manufactured. Whether something is practical or impractical just your opinion so that's meaningless. I'm not telling you how to see or view anything. People see through the filter of the knowledge that is there otherwise what would they see and how would then know what they see? Again, good luck!
Busted. Byron Katie, you have the right to remain silent, any gibberish you utter will be destroyed by UG.
When truth is mentioned U.G. goes straight to his own philosophy without asking about Byron Katies system. But BKs system - like the Buddhas' - is a means to overcome suffering by questioning beliefs that limit and restrict ones sense of what is real. It does not say this or that is real at all. Like the Buddha, she leaves that open. To my mind that is because if there is a truth it can only be known by direct experience and not by accepting a verbal declaration.
***** how is it about systems one follows when one is conversing on the nature of truth?
***** interesting question. but what are you asking me?
***** curious
***** i found your question totally perplexing and didnt know how to reply to it
Katie, it's not an experience. You are interpreting and translating what you "think" UG is experiencing.
I love Byron Katie and her work. It saved my life. She was trying to connect with this man in the video but he was so long winded and couldn’t even get to the point.
Amazing how these 'enlightened' teachers are reduced to pure nonsense in the presence of UG.
Exactly. Still, she goes on with her mumbo jumbo, UG wasn't impressed!
Wtf are u talking about. Even your comment sounds mean, not enlightened
In your dreamworld the presence of U.G. reduced others to pure nonsense. 😃
he is a very disturbed man and idiots thought he had something special so they went and listened to his nonsense.
damn it took almost 12 years maybe but all this shit came full god damn circle since Herman Hesse’s Siddhartha and the hilarious thing is that I’m more terrified than ever 😅😅😅
Intersting! why?
UG didn't call her gimmick. He used the word gimmick for his own statement for "no comments ", which is common statement used by politicians
Yes, but KATIE got scared, UG realized and calmed her down
now u know where Katie got her con...Miss u UG:)
He sure do have a lot of talk and opinions for some guy who says there ain't no such thing as truth! Where I live, if a man say he don't believe in truth, he don't spend a damn hour talking about what he thinks is true. Of course he say there's no way there can be any communication. He never shuts his stinkin' hole! Lord Jesus give me strength!
+Grey If that's what he's saying he should say it and then shut up. That's his problem. He loves to hear himself talk.
exactly....we have no idea what thought is..no one has ever discovered it..no oner ever will..it seems to be a movement..an arising...you are right life IS
ug was the real for good reason listen and thinking about you and your family and friends ✌🐯
At 16: 58, a marvellous misunderstanding. Byron Katie has just made an attempt to engage the situation by riffing on non-duality concepts, a bit convolutedly. de Ridder then turns to UG with a "So?", and UG responds with "No comment", and immediately adds "a politicians gimmic" - OBVIOUSLY referring to his own "No comment" as a politicians gimmic. But Byron Katie (and possibly others in the room) apparently understands this as a comment on her preceding discourse, i.e. that UG had just labeled it "a politicians gimmic", and responds by asking her question re, "can we know that", and so on... The misunderstanding is never straightened out. UG, triggered by the word "questions", goes off on questions about things like how to get from A to B being the only questions he has any use for, and so on. Eventually he ends up in longwinded spiels about some of his standard topics. Hilarious hiatus.
Cool comment. I think most comments here are missing the essence on this video scene
It seems like he didn't listen to her. He was simply sitting
@@rushmipriya he heard it but he understood all that was just hogwash
Katie Byron had an alcoholic and lush calamity Lmfaoooooooooooo 🤣 💀💯💀💯💀💯💀💯💀💯💯
I put her surname first 🤔 i think I’ve been learning too much Japanese lol 🇯🇵
if she just farted-she would make more sense. she should never have opened her mouth here. Guy with glasses is infinitely more aware of the abyss between himself and UG-so he is on his way to getting it one day. But woman is utterly lost.
Katie, can you know that the four questions is not a gimmick?
There is a Bright Eyes quote that come to mind:
"And if you swear that there's no truth and who cares
How come you say it like you're right?"
Goes for both participants i guess :)
But I wouldn’t always call that truth ;) nor do I necessitate something caaaaalllleeeeeddddd truth!
All in all, I'd say there is a total disconnect between Byron Katie and UG in this video, primarily because of UG's lack of interest in actually trying to understand what Byron Katie is trying to say or ask (and don't get me wrong, this is not an endorsement of her, just a reflection on what is going on in the video). He takes single words as triggers for self-indulgent rants on anything they might bring to his mind. He apparently loves to hear himself talk, and takes for granted that he is the one who is to hold forth (as Byron Katie notes at one point, in vain), expounding his various pet theories and opinions, some of which are cringeworthy (and don't get me wrong, some of what he tells of himself in relation to his "calamity" in other videos I have found interesting, i.e. don't construe my comments here as a wholesale dismissal of the man). What gives him license to act in this way is a set of sophistical justifications for why he does not have to listen or care or communicate. Once you have listened to enough of his videos you start hearing a broken record play, and you realize he is just as opinionated as any babu off the street, but far better defended, and with an experience in his baggage the babu may not have. UG ended up in this condition of being invested in opinions on a long track of talking about his calamity after he resolved, in the wake of it, to "tell it like it is"... Spiritual iconoclasm is his brand, which is all good and well because we need more of that than we are getting from people in the know, but I think his impact would have been greater had he delivered it with more distance to his opinions...
What makes you think he was trying to have an impact?
He had a lot of misery in his life..plus he did not get the so called enlightenment which he so intensely sought ....he was egoistic...one could make out if you watch some of his videos..the calamity which he talks of was just a figment of his imagination...he was a conman too.
Having said that he was the most honest spiritual person i came across...he never claimed enlightenment..nor did he ask anyone to come to him...didnt sit on a platform and gave speeches..didnt found any organisation ....didnt sell his ideology or even wrote books..he is charismatic too
She didn't get it. UG is not experiencing as that would be a divided state. She says she has an interest in union and by doing so she acknowledges a divided state. I don't think UG sees a friendship in the way she sees it. Amazing she continued on with her "work" after meeting with UG but then she's using knowledge in order to experience and the experience solidifies the knowledge. Ther "work" doesn't work because there is no work to be done by anyone or for anyone.
Bro y u sound like ug? 😂
@@pits7035 Truth is Truth. It neither leads nor follows. No "body" owns Truth, as there really Is nothing besides.
He wasn't flirting, he was being a gentleman -- after all he was a victorian and had elementary manners!
BK may be good and nice. but she has NO CHANCE with UG! The man can handle ANY person without having to even try!!!
A dead man talking with nothing to lose.
and ug Krishnamurti on talk for everybody
it's my impression and my opinion based on my knowledge and background. tried hard to shut my mouth, but I was compelled to chime in.
Byron Katie is naive, who's convinced herself she knows something that others don't. She's a clown, like most of these so called gurus or spiritual masters.
The reality is what UG is stating. There is nothing more to us then the primate that needs to survive and procreate. The way we do these, is far more advanced and sophisticated compared to other animals, but at its most basic level, there really is no difference.
No reason to believe there is more to our lives, then there is for other animals. We refuse to believe that all there is to life at its core, is physical existence in the present moment. We consider this boring, and we need more to keep us interested in life. Those who demand more from life, beyond the physical, will get nothing more then misery.
Loving What Is demonstrates with perfect and unrefutable logic the ways in which we delude and limit ourselves.
***** Thats a load of bullshit. Delusion is an experience. It is a delusion to believe that you have been blessed with a direct view of reality, unaffected by learning and attendant emotions. People like you are why any old shit can be sold
***** Clearly truth is something one knows for oneself - one cannot have anothers experience
***** Yes truth is something one can only know for oneself, but it does not follow that truth is what ever one experiences.
***** How does that mechanism work? I do not think we choose what we believe.
UG seems considerably more ensnared in ego than Byron Katie.
leicbri Yeah you can kind of tell that by the fact that he never let's anyone else speak.
MajorCulturalDivide Also that when they do speak, he hasn't listened well enough to understand them. Whereas Katie seems genuintely attentive. She seems to me to be sitting in clarity.
leicbri Yes. She is listening attentively. Whilst the other man constantly interrupts and says that he can't understand her. However before you say you can't understand someone, you first have the obligation to listen. He's a very unconscious man.
+MajorCulturalDivide he dont want to know anything ^^
+AXharoth Then whhhhyyyyyyy he talk so much if he don't know anything?
Byron Katie's words , yakiti yak chewing gum
qubian cigar😊😊
She is so dishonest. She set out to do the work with UG, and was looking for a sentence. She couldn't think of one herself (because she was so nervous), and asked her group of friends for a statement. Willem comes up with: you said yesterday, UG is deadly. If she was honest, she would have done the work on that statement, but since it was her own, it would have meant that she had to do the work. Of course she won't go there, in stead she twists it to trying to do the work on: UG exists.
Human beings are funny as hell. I cannot believe that such a meeting as this could create division among people. That fact alone demonstrates how removed from reality they really are. But seriously, though, can U.G. really listen?
Inquiry works through feelings alone, not through directed and contrived thought as The Work typically espouses.
48:51 - fabulous extreme zoom in
UG is expressing as undivided. There is no room for otherness in that. Again, she doesn't get it. There's no separate personal entity there. UG is appears to be expressing through that body that is essentially inseparable from totality or whatever you want to call it.
He is Shiva ! The beyond beyond. Stop trying to understand Him. 🙏🏻
@@heartchakra2 Who’s trying to understand him? There’s only one All, hence one Self, one Reality, one Truth, one Infinity. UG was nothing more than a puppet of a seeming dream, nothing more and nothing less. Byron Katie appears to be a character that emphasizes loving what is while always pointing to that which is-not.
HAHAHA! Poor little Byron.
but and if are the great for good
"I can sit here and talk for 24 hrs !'
UNDOUBTEDLY
😁😄.•°
I totally understand ug ,has nothing to offer to the person because questions come from answers already known . while bk is trying to sell something clearly..
For real she is a con woman.He put her in her place though and showed her pathetic con up lol.
mam think about ug 👌👌😄😄✌✌✌
ug rocks
diffrent and suffering was the only words
Haha, true. Normally she is the one who is in control and people stutter in her presence and listen to what she is saying without much questioning of it.
I actually feel sorry for her here. She is trying to appear calm but she was so flustered. I wonder how many other of these spiritual teachers who gulp into microphones and waffle on would have been the same in U.G.'s presence?
all you are is thought. but i agree with you that ultimately it does not lead to anything. I find it a useful tool, and she's very good at it.
There's no such thing as space because there's no way to measure when space ends and non-space begins. There would have to be the space to contain it. Same with infinity. How to measure!
That's from the ancient Greeks...don't look at me.
: )
haha- but so are you. So until the end.
Katie trapped by ug
Semantics and Power Play: the foundation for The Work.
No thanks, Katie!
+Orroz44 semantics is the very foundation of human enslavement: our word games carried us finally to total destruction, thanks to Jews like Byron Katie and other utter hypocrites and fools
power dynamics... this is the first time i have seen BK not be the alpha.
I don't think that she cares about power.
Oh she was definitely the alpha here. Silent, but energetically the alpha.
Absolutely, I have no way of knowing, but her work seems successful. But the difference is that U.G. was not saying he could, should or would help anyone; he would not make any claims like that, or provide any answers or systems for you to use. He had nothing to sell.
You must not know Bk. Everything she has, has been given by invitation.
great for good
Byron is discussing from another plane , her slate is, as it can never be , clean!
as u.g mentioned very early it seems she's come to confirm the answers she already knows...and she looks like hugely disappointed !
7:03
UG's sigh at 7:46 😆
i believe, UG is in another paradigm then Katie.
Anna Virovlansky Very true
Katie keeps bringing up "The Four Questions", as if you ask the universe these four special questions, the truth will be revealed!
UG's response is "There are no questons at all."
jackcarterog001 , i believe he means that there is no "questioner" :))) but before the questioner himself is questioned the emotional "charge" of other issues, that Kaite addresses, is, in my opinion, very necessary.more i study about it more i see that they all point in the same direction in their own unique way. its also possible (from Katie's later video conversations) that for her advanced students its more then the "4questions".
Anna Virovlansky True, but it's just a bit arrogant for her to talk about "The Four Questions" as if UG knows what she's talking about. He doesn't.
There's a different quality between the likes of UG and Byron Katie. Katie seems to want validation from UG or at least want others to see that UG has validated her.
She looks at UG and sees something there: An enlightened man, an awakened being, etc. UG looks at her and sees just naother human being. Clearly he is not projecting anything onto her and I thinksome people might find that offensive and arrogant of him for not projecting onto her an enlightened being.
He responds to her as if she were any other human being on the planet and she cannot do the same to him because she is still projecting onto him.
That raises an eyebrow for me.
the difference that i see between them is the issue is there such a thing as awakened being (what you suggest that Katie sees in UG) if there is no separate human being at all (what UG points at). who would get awaken and enlightened? to put it in different words Katie, imho!, tries to unites two into one, and UG points that the separation never happened in the first place.
+CirculoEterno nah shes great too
If the work works work it. but in U.G.'s case, as you said quite well, no division, no labor.
I am not talking, i am typing. U.G. and BK were not saying or doing the same thing: he did not claim to be able to do anything for you and he did not teach that you need to do anything. He did not have or teach a method or system. He did not charge money to visit him and hang out. Anyone could come and go freely. He never wrote a book or profited from books people wrote about him.
Which person do i believe in the comments section? Is she right or is he right? 😯
I could be living on mars and I'd still spot the massive ego and delusion of byron Katie in this interview
i agree 100%.
BK is really trying hard to fit U.G. into her framework, and make a point so that she can use it to promote herself.
guru on talk
UG talks and talks and talks and says nothing. He philosophizes and theorizes and tries to sound knowledgeable and exclusive. He interrupts and doesn’t connect and doesn’t listen very well. Katie is clear, concise, and full of truth. She wants to help people wake up. It’s not about her. With UG, you can tell it’s all about him. I think he’s threatened by her because she’s the real deal whereas he’s just posturing.
Why don't they all just shut up? That is the only logical conclusion of their own views, there is no point in talking due to all talk being an outcome of social conditioning and personal experience.
It's like Byron Katie's process, it is pointless as it just revolves around itself, rather than awareness deepening, it remains superficial as it is thought looking at itself via reflection. Thought cannot lead beyond itself as it is merely memory and as such of limited scope.
Katie, experience is division.
our job is to shut up.
but I wanna talk 😂
Make up, lipstick, earrings and hair done very carefully but she says "I dont have an interest in how people see me" hahaha
I want to know if any one ended up in bed together after this epic discussion!! I would have definitely!! Anyway UG is the only person so far I can call my alliance when I am alone...Because I am animal!! at least to put it mildly I am closer to animal than to God!!
No, you are God appearing as an animal.
Why the hell does that lady blink her eyes so much, holy shit
haha
UG was a grouch. BK was more enlightened, but there was a brief moment where she got defensive
That UG was a grouch. Also Byron Katie was more enlightened. Although she got defensive at one moment.
Love ug
I think mam is going for God but question are same for you
oh! now I get it that this is her "work". It reminds me of est. there is nothing new under the sun. I really don't know anything about her except that she visited U.G. a couple of times and then claimed that he was her "great friend."
it's hard to tell sometimes when people are being ironic on internet. my response was also a bit of a joke.
only for listen
You are fuckin legend gym
don't ask
33:00 chatgpt prediction!
Anyone know when this was taped?
1998
Her name should be Katie Byron, not a brute reversal
Today Byron Katie COMPLETELY disowns and disassociated UG. She sells a self help program, lectures and books.
my English is also very bad
What does Byron Katie say here?:
42:34 ...?... speaking of it ...?... that your value system and I can't hear that it is.
47:46 U.G. If there is someone to talk to here, I would say it is ...?... with you again.
48:00 That was just a hope of ...?...
:)
Silly rabbits...U.G. was an ornery old bastard and he's not gettin' what she's puttin' down but ultimately they are saying the same things and speaking from the same place. In all ten directions of the universe there is but one truth, when we see clearly all the great teachings are the same. This is a funny conversation because U.G. isn't used to listening.
The only place that they both are speaking from is the lack of understanding of hwat the hell she is talking about:
30:35
"I don't know. I don't get what you are saying" - UG
"I didn't either" - Byron Katie
Yeah, well, do you get it? That's what really matters.
Joe Bragg I +1'd you by accident. Of course I get it, that's why I said what I just said. The real question is: Do you get it? Do you get that Byron Katie is delusional?
I don't want to engage in too much of this sort of thing but I'd recommend reading, A Thousand Names for Joy if you haven't. I actually don't know if you've read any of Katie's books or U.G.'s for that matter. U.G didn't really have techniques that he prescribed to students because he didn't really believe in techniques. I'm a fan of U.G. but he probably had about zero awakened students. Katie gives the technique of spiritual enquiry. Hers is sort of a modern American update of Ramana Maharshi's, ask yourself, "Who am I?" Adyshanti also speaks often about spiritual enquiry. If you don't connect with Katie's teaching, I would recommend Adya's video's The Basic Teachings Part 1-3. I have found Adya, U.G and Byron Katie to be extremely helpful teachers along the path to personal awakening. Best of luck.
www.adyashanti.org/cafedharma/index.php?file=video
Joe Bragg *I actually don't know if you've read any of Katie's books or U.G.'s for that matter.*
UG doesn't have any books. You see, he's not interested in promoting himself as some kind of teacher or guru that can help lead you to some "pleasurable state of being".
If you didn't already know, UG did not author any of his books and has not copyrighted any of his material:
"My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody." - UG Krishnamurti
Byron Katie is the exact opposite. She wants to protect her words, keep her teachings teathered to herself. If you take her words and convert them into book formta, she will sue the living hell out of you, I promise you that.
*U.G didn't really have techniques that he prescribed to students because he didn't really believe in techniques.*
UG didn't have any students. You don't seem to know much about UG. He says over and over again that he cannot help to free anyone from anything because there is NOTHING to be free from.
He didn't believe in any techniques, because he knows that no technique can bring you to what is actually there; that the technique is the very thing that is keeping you from that.
*'m a fan of U.G. but he probably had about zero awakened students.*
The exact same number as Byron Katie
*Katie gives the technique of spiritual enquiry.*
Which does nothing but keeps the mind going.
*Hers is sort of a modern American update of Ramana Maharshi's, ask yourself, "Who am I?"*
That means absolutely nothing to me. Ramana was a freightened man. When he attained "enlightenment" as a teenager, he went to the temple, fell to his knees in front of dead, meaningless idols and begged the "gods" to bless him with sainthood as tears pours down his face. What kind of enlightened man would start crying as he begged some statues for some kind of blessing? Ramana's entire life was running away from death and the fact that death is a fact, but in the end, Ramana was weeping on his death bed. REAL death was finally knocking at his door and he could not take it.
Trust me on this: Ramana Maharshi wouldn't last a day in your shoes. Not one single day. Don't look up to that man.
*Adyshanti also speaks often about spiritual enquiry.*
You mean Steven? Let's not feed that man's delusional ego by calling him "Primordial Peace". An enlightened man would never chage his name form Steven to Primordial Peace.
*I have found Adya, U.G and Byron Katie to be extremely helpful teachers along the path to personal awakening. Best of luck*
I have found Byron Katie to be extremely helpful in showing how unenlightened people like her really are. Like I said, in this video, we see nothing but a woman living in her own world trying to gain approval from UG Krishnamurti. Never in this video do we see UG seeking any kind of approval from Byron Katie. In fact, he REDUCED her to a follower.
You can clearly tell the difference between UG and Byron Katie. UG looks at her in EXACTLY the same way he looks at everyone else in the room, but Byron Katie is reduced to looking at UG like eveyone else in the room.
I know you don't know UG's 'teachings' very well. What he is saying is not what Byron Katie or "Primordial Peace" is saying.
u are not thought at all...u dont even know what thought is...in fact no one does...u are. Period...
He is an angry man .... Obscene .... The signs of true Enlightenment are peace, humility and contentment ... he lacks the 3 ... an ugly man on all levels.
He never said he was enlightened....he always said there was nothing called enlightenment
@@sridharreddy8011 obviously he is not. And surely he would deny such a potential as he is as far from it as the sun from earth.
@@waiataaroha Your describing him as angry, obscene, and ugly doesn’t seem to indicate any peace, humility, nor contentment. So are you yourself speaking from a place of “Enlightenment” or are you merely projecting certain unpleasant characteristics on this character on a screen named UG?
There is neither honesty nor integrity to the comment you made 5 years ago, and your maintaining the same position 4 years later shows a lack of intelligence. Where is the humility in saying anyone lacks anything or that anyone is far away from something seemingly wonderful? Who has drawn these limiting descriptions and conditions to this so-called Enlightenment?
what crap
bk bk hai
BK : " We're saying the same thing, can you hear it "
UG : " I don't even hear what I'm saying "
Epic
no epic at alll ... he is trash lack the basic morals to communicate.
He’s very rude with a big ego
Then UG follows “I can’t even hear myself’ with “that’s my problem”. That’s so true. She’s trying to connect, and he isn’t even aware enough to hear himself let alone hear her.